It has come to my attention that I am casually racist. I work in an industry with a VERY varied cultural basis. ( primary industry) During my work i regularly play "guess your nationality" with customers for a twofold reason , a. it allows me to understand their predetermined views in regard to the industry.
and b. allows a severe icebreaker as I invariably get it seriously wrong ( except for the middle east).
In all honesty what I say would not be tolerated in the public service, but as I pick the customers I say it to I find an general positive response.Differences aren't bad in my view, differences are interesting, differences make life worth living. i hate the attempted and bs homogernisation of an inclusive society. I love my city (sydney) but if anyone said I could not mention anything along cultural backgrounds i feeel understanding of others would suffer. If someone cannot illustrate why some one is different how can they possibly accept it..
now get this i am not attempting to justify being xenophobic. ect ect ect, i just enjoy differences not pretend they don't exist. does anyone feel the same way?
I am not trying to justify hanging gak on people, just trying to understand if others feel that ethnicity is a positive and not a negative?
just re read what i wrote, i hope we can get a discussion out of this
Recognising that cultural differences exist is not racist, casual or otherwise. Without cultures, and the interactions between those cultures, the world would suffer immensely.
i hear what you are saying paradigm but casual racism is pretty much defined as: Casual Racism
The art of being slightly racist in a casual fashion. It's when one doesn't really hate people of another color, but finds jokes about them ridiculously funny. The casual racist will often make jokes about his own race in addition to jokes about other races. The casual racist does not hate, he appreciates.
Oh, right, I see now. So the likes of Englishman, Scotsman Irishman jokes then? Well to be honest, I don't take issue with stuff like that, there's really no harm done, and no conflict caused unless one party goes looking for it.
Believing one race to be inherently superior is wrong, but a little inter-nation joshing really isn't a problem, especially when not taken seriously (and really, no one does)
i agree with you but i'm wondering how others feel about the (non) issue.
There is nothing more satisfying than defending an irishman being harrassed for irish dancing by englishmen than refferring to morris dancing.I love hammering englishman with that when they start to harrass an irishman.
I don't believe in this "Casual Racism" social justice crap. Racism has a very specific definition.
Oxford Dictionary wrote: 1The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races:
You're either racist or you're not.
Do you believe that people of other races are inferior? Congratulations, you're a racist.
You don't think that? Stop worrying.
Being ignorant as to other people's cultural identities, making jokes and/or making assumptions =/= racism unless you think they're inferior to you because of of their race.
Yes I'm the same way. I joke and make light of the differences. I too enjoy them, it's interesting to me how we can all live so close to another and still be so wildly different. I love it.
I've worked 80% of my life in workplaces that weren't anglo centric . I love difference,somehow university is telling me that's bad.
At those workplaces i check my yellow privilege at the gate . ( I'm thinking if i am in a workplace that is 70% one race I'm suffering some bad form of negative [yeah, i said it ] privilege .)
Bullockist wrote: I've worked 80% of my life in workplaces that weren't anglo centric . I love difference,somehow university is telling me that's bad.
At those workplaces i check my yellow privilege at the gate . ( I'm thinking if i am in a workplace that is 70% one race I'm suffering some bad form of negative [yeah, i said it ] privilege .)
My best friends are Jewish (2), Hispanic (2), and black (1). Yeah, not even close to being racist. That said, I've busted a couple jokes on them, like going to a con with a couple of them and having them over for dinner first, while "apologizing" to my black friend that we were having spaghetti and meatballs, not fried chicken. He had a good laugh at that. Between friends, the jokes are totally fine. I would never say such a thing to someone I barely knew, but have no trouble busting my friend's balls. Does it put him down? Absolutely not. Just like everything else, it's all about context.
And as for your example with asking customers nationality and such...it can help make for a great rapport. I was working as a contractor for the national guard, and one of the female soldiers had a particular accent, so I asked if she was Brazilian, because it matched my old roommate's accent. She said I made her day, and that most people get it wrong, but I was absolutely right. Yeah...I don't see any crime with that kinda thing. Social heroes need to back down.
as i realise you are under 30 i think i wanto to hug you timetowaste85 , i love how you see that differences are things we love and absorb rather than things we fear.
Seriously, people who say they're not casual racist (as per the definition given in this thread) are either liars or unsociable. And one does not exclude the other.
Aesop the God Awful wrote: Seriously, people who say they're not casual racist (as per the definition given in this thread) are either liars or unsociable. And one does not exclude the other.
And people who think everyone is racist are deluding themselves and making excuses for their own shortcomings. Or to (probably badly) quote the Queen from Destiny "Often when we guess at others motivations we reveal our own".
What's great is that you can express how you feel and go with what you really believe in your setting. But from the sounds of it, you'll need to be very careful around some people.
I grew up an only child (feel free to stereotype that) and had almost no contact with people from other races even through high school. But in high school we had to learn about racism and one of the ways the teacher decided to do this was to have us read a book titled with a single word that starts with N. This book talked about the use of the word and included many racist jokes. This teacher then had us read passages in class, much like any class of students had to go around reading passages. Without knowing, I became the class racist when I read the words in the book instead of pausing, being sheepish, or calling it "the N word". The class confirmed their suspicions when I laughed a few of the jokes listed in the book: "haha that's hilarious because why would anyone ever think like that? I've never seen anyone think that way and it seems silly so it's funny. Didn't racism end a long time ago or something?"
Moral of the story: it doesn't matter what you really think. You can enjoy being yourself around a few people like you but when you go out others are going to judge you immediately if you start expressing those beliefs in any way and they'll assume the worst about you because you're not non-racist the exact same way they are non-racist. It's ironic really.
If this is already racist, than I am one. Jokes about Estonians are just too funny.
I don't think it is really racism though, as long as you recognise they are just jokes.
Bullockist wrote: i hear what you are saying paradigm but casual racism is pretty much defined as: Casual Racism
The art of being slightly racist in a casual fashion. It's when one doesn't really hate people of another color, but finds jokes about them ridiculously funny. The casual racist will often make jokes about his own race in addition to jokes about other races. The casual racist does not hate, he appreciates.
If the jokes are funny enough to make the other person laugh with you then it's probably not racist. It's just using humor to point out stereotypes and cultural differences. If you're angering people or using epithets in an insulting or demeaning manner you're being a racist gak. Sense of humor is subjective so be careful what you say and how you say it if you don't know your audience.
timetowaste85 wrote: My best friends are Jewish (2), Hispanic (2), and black (1). Yeah, not even close to being racist. That said, I've busted a couple jokes on them, like going to a con with a couple of them and having them over for dinner first, while "apologizing" to my black friend that we were having spaghetti and meatballs, not fried chicken. He had a good laugh at that. Between friends, the jokes are totally fine. I would never say such a thing to someone I barely knew, but have no trouble busting my friend's balls. Does it put him down? Absolutely not. Just like everything else, it's all about context.
And as for your example with asking customers nationality and such...it can help make for a great rapport. I was working as a contractor for the national guard, and one of the female soldiers had a particular accent, so I asked if she was Brazilian, because it matched my old roommate's accent. She said I made her day, and that most people get it wrong, but I was absolutely right. Yeah...I don't see any crime with that kinda thing. Social heroes need to back down.
This is generally how I handle things too if I know the person well I may occasionally crack some racial humour, but I don't usually bring it up with people I don't know.
One thing i have noticed is that often the term "racist/racism" can be used as a argument shutdown.
One of my best friends (white) has a good example.
He was speaking to a hispanic person and they got into an argument. The hispanic guy called my friend a racist, thinking that it would make him back down. Wrong.
Severe tongue lashing ensured.
Back on topic, i firmly believe that one can tread the line between joking and open racism. Speak carefully.
I don't believe in this "Casual Racism" social justice crap. Racism has a very specific definition.
Oxford Dictionary wrote: 1The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races:
You're either racist or you're not.
Do you believe that people of other races are inferior? Congratulations, you're a racist.
You don't think that? Stop worrying.
Being ignorant as to other people's cultural identities, making jokes and/or making assumptions =/= racism unless you think they're inferior to you because of of their race.
My personal take is that the definition you put forward is a lot more honest than the "power and privilege" one that is currently being pushed.
Only if the person making the joke actually thinks other races are inferior.
Jeez, we had this argument in one of my own threads a while back, when I reposted on Dakka a chain email of Irish jokes that my Northern Irish dad (from Belfast) sent me, and which I found funny. Does that mean I think Irish people are racially inferior? Hell no. Half my extended family is Irish.
And the people in that thread who acused me of racism were...not Irish. The actual Irish members of Dakka sided with me, and responded with jokes about us English. Did I interpret their jokes as racist towards us English? Nope.
timetowaste85 wrote: My best friends are Jewish (2), Hispanic (2), and black (1). Yeah, not even close to being racist. That said, I've busted a couple jokes on them, like going to a con with a couple of them and having them over for dinner first, while "apologizing" to my black friend that we were having spaghetti and meatballs, not fried chicken. He had a good laugh at that. Between friends, the jokes are totally fine. I would never say such a thing to someone I barely knew, but have no trouble busting my friend's balls. Does it put him down? Absolutely not. Just like everything else, it's all about context.
And as for your example with asking customers nationality and such...it can help make for a great rapport. I was working as a contractor for the national guard, and one of the female soldiers had a particular accent, so I asked if she was Brazilian, because it matched my old roommate's accent. She said I made her day, and that most people get it wrong, but I was absolutely right. Yeah...I don't see any crime with that kinda thing. Social heroes need to back down.
I agree that it helps when you're friends. My buddy big John gave me the name Cracker, and he's a black guy, I laughed my ass off
Only if the person making the joke actually thinks other races are inferior.
Who says they do not already think that way.
Who says they do?
To consider someone racist simply because they told a joke is projection. Mere jokes are not sufficent evidence either way to judge a person's opinions on race.
If you start cracking racial jokes if I just met you or everytime I see you, I don't care if you think you're racist or not, I'm going to stay away from you as much as possible and then I'm gonna laugh when you complain about being labeled racist by society/others. If it walks and talks like a duck.
I'm in my midthirties and have met plenty of these people in the workplace. All they do is talk about race and then say, "but I'm not racist." I just say, you sound like it, and go about my day. If it's outside of work and I am by myself or talkin with friends/females , forget about it. Take a hike, I have absolutely no interest in listening to some idiot crack racial jokes all day. Thats the least interesting thing I can think of to waste my time listening too. But good luck with that if you think its fine.
Radiation wrote: If you start cracking racial jokes if I just met you or everytime I see you, I don't care if you think you're racist or not, I'm going to stay away from you as much as possible and then I'm gonna laugh when you complain about being labeled racist by society/others. If it walks and talks like a duck.
I'm in my midthirties and have met plenty of these people in the workplace. All they do is talk about race and then say, "but I'm not racist." I just say, you sound like it, and go about my day. If it's outside of work and I am by myself or talkin with friends/females , forget about it. Take a hike, I have absolutely no interest in listening to some idiot crack racial jokes all day. Thats the least interesting thing I can think of to waste my time listening too. But good luck with that if you think its fine.
If they have an unhealthy obsession with race and keep on talking about it frequently, that may be indicative of some warped beliefs.
Simply making the odd joke now and then is not sufficient evidence.
Edit:
Also, it depends on context. If you continue making racial jokes in the presence of a person(s) when you KNOW it makes them uncomfortable and offends them, then that may well be bullying.
Only if the person making the joke actually thinks other races are inferior.
Who says they do not already think that way.
Who says they do?
To consider someone racist simply because they told a joke is projection. Mere jokes are not sufficent evidence either way to judge a person's opinions on race.
Sorry. Hate to tell it. Someone who cracks a racist joke in my presence I am going to avoid like Radiation says. If someone though who does tell racist jokes in public and those who do not put the individual in check are pretty much condoning it.
Knowing when and where to make any kind of joke is a sign of consideration and thoughtfulness. Someone you just randomly meet that just whips out racial or sexist jokes to strangers is neither. People that know each other and have a history can do a lot of things that strangers, or even simply coworkers cannot. It is part of becoming an adult I suppose. Children will spout off just about anything at anytime, as you grow up one should know better. Context and timing are generally key components.
I don't really tell these jokes but I usually find that the ethnicity et al. of the joke usually know them better. Black people know the best black jokes, Jews tell the best Jewish jokes and so on. Most of the Lawyers I know have great Lawyer jokes. Racists tend to be pretty bad at it and the jokes are just demeaning, not funny.
d-usa wrote: Act like a racist, get labeled a racist. Don't want people to judge you a racist, don't make racist jokes.
Are we now changing definitions of things so that we can pretend stuff isn't bad anymore?
No, we're insisting on ACTUALLY USING DEFINITIONS CORRECTLY. It is YOU who is not using the term correctly.
Oxford Dictionary wrote: 1The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races:
if you don't believe other races are inferior, YOU'RE NOT A RACIST.
Jihadin wrote: That would mean the individual has no respect for ethnicity
How does not believing race makes one inferior/superior make one have no respect for ethnicity? One can understand that people have had different elements of history as well as shared history without feeling superior/inferior. I can recognize a black man as being black without assigning him as being better or worse that me based on that criteria.
This is how it goes with these people. They will argue in circles forever. They think it should be okay to tell racist jokes and not be judged racist. Like they are gonna change peoples minds. You told a racist joke, get judged. Thats it, you can't take it back. You can always decide to change, but you can't erase what you said and what people heard. And you will be judged by the people around you for it.
d-usa wrote: Act like a racist, get labeled a racist. Don't want people to judge you a racist, don't make racist jokes.
Are we now changing definitions of things so that we can pretend stuff isn't bad anymore?
No, we're insisting on ACTUALLY USING DEFINITIONS CORRECTLY. It is YOU who is not using the term correctly.
Oxford Dictionary wrote: 1The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races:
if you don't believe other races are inferior, YOU'RE NOT A RACIST.
If you act like a racist, people will treat you like a racist. That includes racist jokes.
It doesn't matter what definition you quite. It doesn't matter what your feelings are. It doesn't matter if you are buddy buddy with lots of minorities.
Act like a racist, people will treat you like a racist.
Radiation wrote: This is how it goes with these people. They will argue in circles forever. They think it should be okay to tell racist jokes and not be judged racist. Like they are gonna change peoples minds. You told a racist joke, get judged. Thats it, you can't take it back. You can always decide to change, but you can't erase what you said and what people heard. And you will be judged by the people around you for it.
Telling a so called "racist joke" doesn't make you a racist.
Somebody else perceiving what you say to be racist, does not make you a racist.
What DOES make you a racist, is believing other races to be INFERIOR. It depends entirely on what YOU believe.
Telling a joke might be rude and disrespectful, but it is only racist if you BELIEVE that race to be racially inferior.
Racism is a state of mind, not an action. Actions (jokes, comments, remarks) might be indicative of racism, and you might infer what a person believes based on what they say, but they are only racist if they actually BELIEVE other races are inferior.
Dictionaries. USE THEM.
1The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races:
The actor was in on the joke, and it was also mocking the racism of the 50's. He was also a surgeon and an athlete, so it was playing on stereotypes not making one.
Radiation wrote: This is how it goes with these people. They will argue in circles forever. They think it should be okay to tell racist jokes and not be judged racist. Like they are gonna change peoples minds. You told a racist joke, get judged. Thats it, you can't take it back. You can always decide to change, but you can't erase what you said and what people heard. And you will be judged by the people around you for it.
Telling a so called "racist joke" doesn't make you a racist.
Somebody else perceiving what you say to be racist, does not make you a racist.
What DOES make you a racist, is believing other races to be INFERIOR. It depends entirely on what YOU believe.
Telling a joke might be rude and disrespectful, but it is only racist if you BELIEVE that race to be racially inferior.
Racism is a state of mind, not an action. Actions (jokes, comments, remarks) might be indicative of racism, and you might infer what a person believes based on what they say, but they are only racist if they actually BELIEVE other races are inferior.
Dictionaries. USE THEM.
1The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races:
Whatever turns you purple. Its pretty simple though. Tell racist jokes, prepare to be judged a racist by others. Argue all you want about it afterwards. You have still been judged a racist for it. You can always change. Or keep telling your jokes until you find someone willing to listen to them. But expecting not to be judged for it is living in fantasy land. We all judge each other for so much less. Telling racist jokes is a huge personality indicator and most people, myself included, will consider it a red flag
Radiation wrote: This is how it goes with these people. They will argue in circles forever. They think it should be okay to tell racist jokes and not be judged racist. Like they are gonna change peoples minds. You told a racist joke, get judged. Thats it, you can't take it back. You can always decide to change, but you can't erase what you said and what people heard. And you will be judged by the people around you for it.
Telling a so called "racist joke" doesn't make you a racist.
Somebody else perceiving what you say to be racist, does not make you a racist.
What DOES make you a racist, is believing other races to be INFERIOR. It depends entirely on what YOU believe.
Telling a joke might be rude and disrespectful, but it is only racist if you BELIEVE that race to be racially inferior.
Racism is a state of mind,
I hope that makes you feel warm and cuddly because that is all you have while everybody treats you like a racist when you act like one.
Dictionaries. USE THEM.
1The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races:
Dictionary.com: racism: hatred or intolerance of another race or other races. (aka: making jokes about people based on their race = intolerance of their race)
Merrian-Webster: poor treatment of or violence against people because of their race (aka: making jokes about people = poor treatment of them) - racial prejudice or discrimination (aka: telling jokes about people based on a prejudice)
Cambridge: the belief that some races are better than others (aka: racist jokes are funny because your race wouldn't have done the same thing because they are better)
Seriously, people who say they're not casual racist (as per the definition given in this thread) are either liars or unsociable. And one does not exclude the other.
Bigots, not racists. All racists are bigots. Not all bigots are racists.
The actor was in on the joke, and it was also mocking the racism of the 50's. He was also a surgeon and an athlete, so it was playing on stereotypes not making one.
Was the audience though.
Edit
So MASH falls into a racist column in today's "perception"
d-usa wrote: I hope that makes you feel warm and cuddly because that is all you have while everybody treats you like a racist when you act like one.
Why do you have to make this personal? What the feth makes you think I'm acting racist here? I'm simply disagreeing with you all because I think your definition of racism is far too broad.
I don't remember the last time I myself made a racial joke. The closest I got was reposting an email about Irish jokes (which were really just general wordplay jokes applicable to anybody and not specific to Irish people)sent to me by my Irish Dad.
Could you please argue without resorting to Ad Hominem and labeling ME a racist?
Ouze wrote: Putting an argument in a larger font does not make it more compelling.
Don't ignore it then and I won't feel the need to emphasize it.
Since that is your advise.
If you act like a racist, regardless of your motivation for doing so, regardless of it being for the LULZ, regardless of it being just a joke, regardless of it being to a deep seeded sense of racial superiority, regardless of any reason whatsoever, people will treat you like a racist.
It's not rocket science, do racist things and people will treat you like a racist, even if you feel like you are not one.
No, but I'm certainly going to assume anyone who I don't know well who thinks it's appropriate to tell me one is, so I guess... play stupid games, win stupid prizes?
d-usa wrote: I hope that makes you feel warm and cuddly because that is all you have while everybody treats you like a racist when you act like one.
Why do you have to make this personal? What the feth makes you think I'm acting racist here? I'm simply disagreeing with you all because I think your definition of racism is far too broad.
I'm not saying that you are acting racist in this thread.
I'm saying that your excuse of "I'm not racist even if I act like a racist because it's not my actions that matter but whatever feelings I have deep down inside of me which are invisible to anyone else but me that define me" is pretty damn silly and doesn't work.
d-usa wrote: I hope that makes you feel warm and cuddly because that is all you have while everybody treats you like a racist when you act like one.
Why do you have to make this personal? What the feth makes you think I'm acting racist here? I'm simply disagreeing with you all because I think your definition of racism is far too broad.
I'm not saying that you are acting racist in this thread.
I'm saying that your excuse of "People are not racist even if they act like a racist because it's not their actions that matter but whatever feelings they have deep down inside of them which are invisible to anyone else but them that define them" is pretty damn silly and doesn't work.
No, you're just calling me a racist outright.
You're personalizing your argument to me and attaching the label of "racist" to me specifically apparently thinking that I'm making this argument in defense of my own actions, when in fact I'm defending the actions of others, NOT my own. Holding an opinion about a certain behavior or action does not mean you yourself are guilty of that behaviour or action. Saying "jokes about race aren't a big deal" does not automatically mean that you yourself tell those jokes.
The only example you will find of me making a racial joke on this forum was my Irish thread (in which I simply reposted jokes sent to me by my Dad), and those jokes were more general wordplay jokes, vague and not specific to any race or ethnicity. I simply neglected to edit it to remove the references to Ireland). Funnily enough, the people in that thread complaining weren't actually Irish, the Irish posters found the jokes funny.
In fact, just refer to that thread from now on, we're having the exact same argument.
And the argument that "casual racism" now means "I told a racist joke but I'm totes not racist guys" from the OP, which is just an amazing delusion of what "casual racism" refers to.
It doesn't matter what definition you quite. It doesn't matter what your feelings are. It doesn't matter if you are buddy buddy with lots of minorities.
If you act like a racist, people will treat you like a racist. That includes racist jokes.
It doesn't matter what definition you quite. It doesn't matter what your feelings are. It doesn't matter if you are buddy buddy with lots of minorities.
Act like a racist, people will treat you like a racist.
Right, so apparently racism boils down to "making a joke". Its good we've established just how broad and all encompassing your definition of racism is.
I on the other hand think that actual racists do and say things that are a hell of a lot worse than trivial innocuous jokes.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Jihadin wrote: I need a MOD to PM please before I go further down the rabbit hole with this topic
Any MOD's having an eagle eye on this thread?
Why? Nobody in this thread is actually racist, or made racist remarks. We're arguing about definitions.
This is Thought Crime in action. Orwell would be face palming.
If you act like a racist, people will treat you like a racist. That includes racist jokes.
It doesn't matter what definition you quite. It doesn't matter what your feelings are. It doesn't matter if you are buddy buddy with lots of minorities.
Act like a racist, people will treat you like a racist.
Right, so apparently racism boils down to "making a joke". Its good we've established just how broad and all encompassing your definition of racism is.
I on the other hand think that actual racists do and say things that are a hell of a lot worse than trivial innocuous jokes.
Your just seeing that one aspect of it. Your not included the additional aspect of the situation.
We all know your not racist but will you tell a racist joke on Dakkadakka not related to game content?
If you act like a racist, people will treat you like a racist. That includes racist jokes.
It doesn't matter what definition you quite. It doesn't matter what your feelings are. It doesn't matter if you are buddy buddy with lots of minorities.
Act like a racist, people will treat you like a racist.
Right, so apparently racism boils down to "making a joke". Its good we've established just how broad and all encompassing your definition of racism is.
I on the other hand think that actual racists do and say things that are a hell of a lot worse than trivial innocuous jokes.
Your just seeing that one aspect of it. Your not included the additional aspect of the situation.
We all know your not racist but will you tell a racist joke on Dakkadakka not related to game content?
I wouldn't tell a joke that I considered to be racist period, whether on Dakka Dakka or elsewhere. But the thing is, you consider certain jokes to be racist which I do not. We're all arguing past each other, using different definitions and criteria.
Joking that "Black people are apes" - would be racist, because it carries the implication of inferiority.
Joking about an aspect of a race or ethnicity that is humourous to others, such as a difficult to understand accent or a wordplay, would not be racist if it does not carry the implication of inferiority.
It is no more racist for a British comedian to do a funny impression of an Indian accent than it is for an Indian to do a funny impression of the Queen's English.
I have quoted a few times in OT I am not racist but towards one type of group. Yet I maintain two type of "jokes" for the longest running time of posting in this forum in plain view.
One does not have to consider another race/or ethnicity to be considered Racist.
Edit
Correction.
I removed one line from my sig
not to mention I created a Waffen SS units from my Tau I had posted in my Sig
If you act like a racist, people will treat you like a racist. That includes racist jokes.
It doesn't matter what definition you quite. It doesn't matter what your feelings are. It doesn't matter if you are buddy buddy with lots of minorities.
Act like a racist, people will treat you like a racist.
Right, so apparently racism boils down to "making a joke". Its good we've established just how broad and all encompassing your definition of racism is.
Aren't you the guy with the dictionary fetish? Why you no like dictionary definitions now?
I on the other hand think that actual racists do and say things that are a hell of a lot worse than trivial innocuous jokes.
Racist actions encompass a very wide scope of things, from giving someone the stinkeye to jokes to genocide. Just because somebody does a worse racist thing doesn't mean that the lesser thing can't be percieved as racist as well.
Joking about an aspect of a race or ethnicity that is humourous to others, such as a difficult to understand accent or a wordplay, would not be racist if it does not carry the implication of inferiority.
It would still be racist if it carries the implication of intolerance, the implication of poor treatment, or the implication of prejudice.
Jihadin wrote: I have quoted a few times in OT I am not racist but towards one type of group. Yet I maintain two type of "jokes" for the longest running time of posting in this forum in plain view.
One does not have to consider another race/or ethnicity to be considered Racist.
Edit
Correction.
I removed one line from my sig
not to mention I created a Waffen SS units from my Tau I had posted in my Sig
Jihadin wrote: I have quoted a few times in OT I am not racist but towards one type of group. Yet I maintain two type of "jokes" for the longest running time of posting in this forum in plain view.
One does not have to consider another race/or ethnicity to be considered Racist.
Edit
Correction.
I removed one line from my sig
not to mention I created a Waffen SS units from my Tau I had posted in my Sig
Speaking of your sig...
Proud Member of the "Pork Eating Crusade"
Some people will call that racist.
Yet its label we applied to ourselves (military) going into the "Sand Box"
The other was
"CEO of the 72 Virgin Dating Service"
Both are geared towards one specific group. No one has called me out on it.
Since I brought attention to myself and those, well one line I have left in my Sig I need to find a replacement for it.
I know where you are coming from, along with Ahtman, it still does not justify among my "peers" to have that line
So MASH falls into a racist column in today's "perception"
Well I'm the audience and I understood what was going on. If you judge everything only by the least capable to understand things then you will be in a world of trouble in general.
Of most the people ive met from around the world Americans seem to view race alot differently than everyone else
I can't quite put my finger on it but it has always just seemed to me that Americans take it alot more seriously. It seem's to be less of an issue everywhere else
Also with the non-stop influence of american culture into our societies i see that it's taking root here as well, people talking alot more about race and what they consider racism where as before it just wasn't that much of an issue at all
The more people obsess over it the bigger the issue becomes
race isn't really anything significant culture is the bigger one it's like if you have an asian mate born in oz and meet someone from the same country who was born overseas and there both completely different people. race really isn't a factor in anything unless you make it
which Americans really like to do unfortunately that is make a big fething issue out of it.
Where not becoming more racist or even identifying more racism, where just being Americanized
Something ive noticed in school as well, race wasn't even talked about or an issue with anyone now well it's all of a sudden a big issue.
mitch_rifle wrote: which Americans really like to do unfortunately that is make a big fething issue out of it.
It is still a pretty big deal to those that live under it's influence and those that are aware of it. It is certainly better than it was, and will continue to get better but we can't act as if everything is ok and there is nothing to talk about. Pretending it doesn't exist doesn't make it go away anymore than pretending a house is on fire puts the fire out.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
TheCustomLime wrote: Casual racism? I thought you were a racist if you thought blacks should go back to Africa or something. Man, how the times change.
True. Racism is often a mix of negative stereotypes and blatant feelings of racial superiority. Popular culture is excellent at perpetuating these stereotypes whether they be in jest or not.
mitch_rifle wrote: Of most the people ive met from around the world Americans seem to view race alot differently than everyone else
I can't quite put my finger on it but it has always just seemed to me that Americans take it alot more seriously. It seem's to be less of an issue everywhere else
Also with the non-stop influence of american culture into our societies i see that it's taking root here as well, people talking alot more about race and what they consider racism where as before it just wasn't that much of an issue at all
The more people obsess over it the bigger the issue becomes
race isn't really anything significant culture is the bigger one it's like if you have an asian mate born in oz and meet someone from the same country who was born overseas and there both completely different people. race really isn't a factor in anything unless you make it
which Americans really like to do unfortunately that is make a big fething issue out of it.
Where not becoming more racist or even identifying more racism, where just being Americanized
Something ive noticed in school as well, race wasn't even talked about or an issue with anyone now well it's all of a sudden a big issue.
Unfortunately, race is still a huge issue in America, because racism is so prevalent. Also, I think it is a much bigger here due in large part to the variety of cultures. Almost every race has immigrated to America in some way, so I think that's why its such a large issue. Compare it to places like England, where their main immigrants are of Arab descent.
Automatically Appended Next Post: To the OT, I don't think Casual Racism exists. I think there is Prejudice and Racism, prejudice obviously being that you can feel equal with other races, but always see them as having certain characteristics.For example, someone could be completely fine with black people, but if they always assume they are great at sports, said person is prejudice. Compare this with someone who thinks black people are stupid and inherently inferior, that is racism.
There is the old saying, "much truth is said in jest." I think people can be kind-hearted and well meaning while still being inherently prejudiced. I know most people carry some inherent prejudice, my dad is extremely prejudiced and I've grown up around, carrying it with me.
I think you can make the conscious decision to not be racist or prejudice, but you have to have the inherent knowledge of your thoughts and behaviors.
In short, racism is often bred out of hate and fear. Do you fear or hate being around people of other ethnicities? If not, you're probably not racist. However, do you laugh at jokes because they're funny like a caricature or because you think people of said ethnicity actually act like that? If you think said race actually acts like that, you're probably prejudiced.
So MASH falls into a racist column in today's "perception"
Well I'm the audience and I understood what was going on. If you judge everything only by the least capable to understand things then you will be in a world of trouble in general.
Your totally missed what I trying to get you to understand. I recommend attending a Equal Opportunity Course and if possible a Equal Opportunity Advance course. I will though bow to your Subject Matter Expertise in this matter since I appear to in a "world of trouble" since I have no experience as a Comapny EO and a BDE EOA
Jihadin wrote: Your totally missed what I trying to get you to understand.
Then you are not explaining yourself very well.
Jihadin wrote: I recommend attending a Equal Opportunity Course and if possible a Equal Opportunity Advance course.
So because you were unclear I now should attend some classes. Doesn't seem quite right.
Jihadin wrote: I will though bow to your Subject Matter Expertise in this matter since I appear to in a "world of trouble" since I have no experience as a Comapny EO and a BDE EOA
I meant 'you' in a general sense not you specifically, so it is my fault on being unclear on that. It still stands that when a person tries to tailor everything to the least capable there are bound to be problems. Some things are simple, some are not.
mitch_rifle wrote: Of most the people ive met from around the world Americans seem to view race alot differently than everyone else
I can't quite put my finger on it but it has always just seemed to me that Americans take it alot more seriously. It seem's to be less of an issue everywhere else
I thought casual racism went along the lines of:
'Hey I like you but the rest of you (insert race/colour/creed here) are all (*insert sterotype/negative comment/foul language).
Mr. Burning wrote: I thought casual racism went along the lines of:
'Hey I like you but the rest of you (insert race/colour/creed here) are all (*insert sterotype/negative comment/foul language).
I don't see what's hard to understand about how if you do things that could be perceived as racist, people might think you're racist.
Also I think Ahtman said something earlier about when and where you do these things. I say some pretty unpleasant things with friends in private, but I generally try not to make the really poor taste jokes in public.
1The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races:
Oh, the irony. The clause in massive font is not a prerequisite for the first part of the sentence to be true, it's just an example of the most typical one. Per your own definition, one can be racist without believing that a race is inferior to another.
Can I just say (again) whilst there is no causal racism, some stuff can tie the line. Be careful what you say and where you say stuff.
To d-usa there is a pretty big gap between people thinking you are racist and actually being it. Perceptions are things you can fight and often successfully win. Actually being something? Tough.
To d-usa there is a pretty big gap between people thinking you are racist and actually being it.
I think I have made it pretty clear that you can actually be non-racist, but still do things that makes other people think that you are and that other people treating you like a racist doesn't make you actually be a racist.
To d-usa there is a pretty big gap between people thinking you are racist and actually being it.
I think I have made it pretty clear that you can actually be non-racist, but still do things that makes other people think that you are and that other people treating you like a racist doesn't make you actually be a racist.
You just got out of college or are just getting into college right? Your narrow views on the world stink of a over privileged teacher telling how he is "pure and nice" and how everyone else is mistaken and corrupting the students.
To d-usa there is a pretty big gap between people thinking you are racist and actually being it.
I think I have made it pretty clear that you can actually be non-racist, but still do things that makes other people think that you are and that other people treating you like a racist doesn't make you actually be a racist.
You just got out of college or are just getting into college right? Your narrow views on the world stink of a over privileged teacher telling how he is "pure and nice" and how everyone else is mistaken and corrupting the students.
Dannyrulx wrote: Wait, who are you referring to? Also. D, you never said that. In non of your arguments did you make that clear.
I thought I did, so sorry if it wasn't clear enough.
It's easy for people to judge others, so someone making racist jokes will result in others judging them. They might not have that actual racist mindset, but others can't see the true motivation behind a racist joke so they will just assume that racism is the motivation.
Actions are easy to observe and judge, and a racist joke can result in judgement, deserved or not. I'm sure that there are also serious hardcore racists who are great at hiding it and that people would never judge them to be racist.
Dannyrulx wrote: Wait, who are you referring to? Also. D, you never said that. In none of your arguments did you make that clear.
I thought I did, so sorry if it wasn't clear enough.
It's easy for people to judge others, so someone making racist jokes will result in others judging them. They might not have that actual racist mindset, but others can't see the true motivation behind a racist joke so they will just assume that racism is the motivation.
Actions are easy to observe and judge, and a racist joke can result in judgement, deserved or not. I'm sure that there are also serious hardcore racists who are great at hiding it and that people would never judge them to be racist.
The tone really helps your argument...
Furthermore, the point is that you, like morgoth, are insisting on playing devils advocate.
To d-usa there is a pretty big gap between people thinking you are racist and actually being it.
I think I have made it pretty clear that you can actually be non-racist, but still do things that makes other people think that you are and that other people treating you like a racist doesn't make you actually be a racist.
You just got out of college or are just getting into college right? Your narrow views on the world stink of a over privileged teacher telling how he is "pure and nice" and how everyone else is mistaken and corrupting the students.
Hillarious.
It is indeed hilarious how people might actually judge you on how you act when around them.
The act of reducing someone to a stereotype, even if that stereotype is not necessarily negative is still marginalizing them and reducing their status as a human being. So while you may not be directly saying they are an inferior race, it is still an attempt to degrade them due to race.
Saying someone is good at math, can't jump or likes watermelon because of race is rude and racist because it basically attempts to tear them down by making them a contrived stereotype opposed to an individual.
I think that ironic racial 'banter' between people with whom you have an 'understanding' is fine. As an example, me and my girlfriend tease each other all the time about that stuff. However, if someone else was to make a racist comment to her I'd fething kill them, and vice versa.
I would question the wisdom of attempting it with total strangers though. Too much risk for too little benefit. There are other ways to be funny and engaging that are less likely to make you look like a total jerk-off.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
nkelsch wrote: The act of reducing someone to a stereotype, even if that stereotype is not necessarily negative is still marginalizing them and reducing their status as a human being. So while you may not be directly saying they are an inferior race, it is still an attempt to degrade them due to race.
Saying someone is good at math, can't jump or likes watermelon because of race is rude and racist because it basically attempts to tear them down by making them a contrived stereotype opposed to an individual.
nkelsch wrote: The act of reducing someone to a stereotype, even if that stereotype is not necessarily negative is still marginalizing them and reducing their status as a human being. So while you may not be directly saying they are an inferior race, it is still an attempt to degrade them due to race.
Saying someone is good at math, can't jump or likes watermelon because of race is rude and racist because it basically attempts to tear them down by making them a contrived stereotype opposed to an individual.
So... jokes about an Englishman, Irishman and Scotsman in a bar are bad?
nkelsch wrote: The act of reducing someone to a stereotype, even if that stereotype is not necessarily negative is still marginalizing them and reducing their status as a human being. So while you may not be directly saying they are an inferior race, it is still an attempt to degrade them due to race.
Saying someone is good at math, can't jump or likes watermelon because of race is rude and racist because it basically attempts to tear them down by making them a contrived stereotype opposed to an individual.
So... jokes about an Englishman, Irishman and Scotsman in a bar are bad?
Well, they aren't racist because none of those are races.
nkelsch wrote: The act of reducing someone to a stereotype, even if that stereotype is not necessarily negative is still marginalizing them and reducing their status as a human being. So while you may not be directly saying they are an inferior race, it is still an attempt to degrade them due to race.
Saying someone is good at math, can't jump or likes watermelon because of race is rude and racist because it basically attempts to tear them down by making them a contrived stereotype opposed to an individual.
So... jokes about an Englishman, Irishman and Scotsman in a bar are bad?
Well, they aren't racist because none of those are races.
Yes they are. 'Race' in regard to humans has a very broad definition.
From Merriam-Webster's dictionary:
race
noun
Definition of RACE
1
: a breeding stock of animals
2
a : a family, tribe, people, or nation belonging to the same stock
b : a class or kind of people unified by shared interests, habits, or characteristics
3
a : an actually or potentially interbreeding group within a species; also : a taxonomic category (as a subspecies) representing such a group
b : breed
c : a category of humankind that shares certain distinctive physical traits
4
obsolete : inherited temperament or disposition
5
: distinctive flavor, taste, or strength
And regardless of that, the post I quoted still aplies to aforementioned jokes.
So apperantly someone thinks making jokes about English, Irish and Scots in a bar is degrading them as human beings?
To d-usa there is a pretty big gap between people thinking you are racist and actually being it.
I think I have made it pretty clear that you can actually be non-racist, but still do things that makes other people think that you are and that other people treating you like a racist doesn't make you actually be a racist.
You just got out of college or are just getting into college right? Your narrow views on the world stink of a over privileged teacher telling how he is "pure and nice" and how everyone else is mistaken and corrupting the students.
Hillarious.
It is indeed hilarious how people might actually judge you on how you act when around them.
Why is this so fething difficult, people?
People thinking that I might be some college kid isn't hilarious.
What's hilarious is that "if you do X, people might assume that you are X" appears to be some sort of idealistic privileged viewpoint that only a college student or college teacher might have. .
MrDwhitey wrote: I dunno, I laughed at him saying you're a college kid.
I don't know. That world cup outfit he wore in that one avatar seems so "college" like.
But I did read that post that was aimed at d-usa and pretty much went "possible Raven44 influence
You go to a bar or a party or club.
You tell your favorite racist joke.
You say, "by the way, l'm not really racist."
You take a girl on a date, and tell her your favorite racist joke. You say, "but I'm not racist."
You're standing in line at the grocery store and tell the person next to you your favorite racist joke. "But I'm not racist."
You're out on the street at night and you see a group of drunk young people. You tell them your favorite racist joke. You remind them you're not racist.
You're at work and there is about to be a meeting. You pass the time telling your favorite racist joke. You remind your co-workers, "I'm not racist."
You are a racist in any of those situations. If you don't understand that, than you are a dumb racist.
Nobody but your mommy cares about the special snowflake that is your inner most soul and your most cherished feelings and thoughts. Society will judge you on your behavior. Your words and actions are what others see you as. Tell your favorite racist joke and say your not a racist. You're a coward racist and a hypocrite.
Radiation wrote: You go to a bar or a party or club.
You tell your favorite racist joke.
You say, "by the way, l'm not really racist."
You take a girl on a date, and tell her your favorite racist joke. You say, "but I'm not racist."
You're standing in line at the grocery store and tell the person next to you your favorite racist joke. "But I'm not racist."
You're out on the street at night and you see a group of drunk young people. You tell them your favorite racist joke. You remind them you're not racist.
You're at work and there is about to be a meeting. You pass the time telling your favorite racist joke. You remind your co-workers, "I'm not racist."
You are a racist in any of those situations. If you don't understand that, than you are a dumb racist.
Nobody but your mommy cares about the special snowflake that is your inner most soul and your most cherished feelings and thoughts. Society will judge you on your behavior. Your words and actions are what others see you as. Tell your favorite racist joke and say your not a racist. You're a coward racist and a hypocrite.
Key phrase though. He does not consider them "inferior"
Radiation wrote: You go to a bar or a party or club.
You tell your favorite racist joke.
You say, "by the way, l'm not really racist."
You take a girl on a date, and tell her your favorite racist joke. You say, "but I'm not racist."
You're standing in line at the grocery store and tell the person next to you your favorite racist joke. "But I'm not racist."
You're out on the street at night and you see a group of drunk young people. You tell them your favorite racist joke. You remind them you're not racist.
You're at work and there is about to be a meeting. You pass the time telling your favorite racist joke. You remind your co-workers, "I'm not racist."
You are a racist in any of those situations. If you don't understand that, than you are a dumb racist.
Nobody but your mommy cares about the special snowflake that is your inner most soul and your most cherished feelings and thoughts. Society will judge you on your behavior. Your words and actions are what others see you as. Tell your favorite racist joke and say your not a racist. You're a coward racist and a hypocrite.
Key phrase though. He does not consider them "inferior"
Radiation wrote: You go to a bar or a party or club.
You tell your favorite racist joke.
You say, "by the way, l'm not really racist."
You take a girl on a date, and tell her your favorite racist joke. You say, "but I'm not racist."
You're standing in line at the grocery store and tell the person next to you your favorite racist joke. "But I'm not racist."
You're out on the street at night and you see a group of drunk young people. You tell them your favorite racist joke. You remind them you're not racist.
You're at work and there is about to be a meeting. You pass the time telling your favorite racist joke. You remind your co-workers, "I'm not racist."
You are a racist in any of those situations. If you don't understand that, than you are a dumb racist.
Nobody but your mommy cares about the special snowflake that is your inner most soul and your most cherished feelings and thoughts. Society will judge you on your behavior. Your words and actions are what others see you as. Tell your favorite racist joke and say your not a racist. You're a coward racist and a hypocrite.
Radiation wrote: You go to a bar or a party or club.
You tell your favorite racist joke.
You say, "by the way, l'm not really racist."
You take a girl on a date, and tell her your favorite racist joke. You say, "but I'm not racist."
You're standing in line at the grocery store and tell the person next to you your favorite racist joke. "But I'm not racist."
You're out on the street at night and you see a group of drunk young people. You tell them your favorite racist joke. You remind them you're not racist.
You're at work and there is about to be a meeting. You pass the time telling your favorite racist joke. You remind your co-workers, "I'm not racist."
You are a racist in any of those situations. If you don't understand that, than you are a dumb racist.
Nobody but your mommy cares about the special snowflake that is your inner most soul and your most cherished feelings and thoughts. Society will judge you on your behavior. Your words and actions are what others see you as. Tell your favorite racist joke and say your not a racist. You're a coward racist and a hypocrite.
Do you think Chris Rock and Louis CK are racists?
There's a real fine line there. Michael Richard cross that line (Kramer from Seinfeld)
Radiation wrote: You go to a bar or a party or club.
You tell your favorite racist joke.
You say, "by the way, l'm not really racist."
You take a girl on a date, and tell her your favorite racist joke. You say, "but I'm not racist."
You're standing in line at the grocery store and tell the person next to you your favorite racist joke. "But I'm not racist."
You're out on the street at night and you see a group of drunk young people. You tell them your favorite racist joke. You remind them you're not racist.
You're at work and there is about to be a meeting. You pass the time telling your favorite racist joke. You remind your co-workers, "I'm not racist."
You are a racist in any of those situations. If you don't understand that, than you are a dumb racist.
Nobody but your mommy cares about the special snowflake that is your inner most soul and your most cherished feelings and thoughts. Society will judge you on your behavior. Your words and actions are what others see you as. Tell your favorite racist joke and say your not a racist. You're a coward racist and a hypocrite.
Do you think Chris Rock and Louis CK are racists?
Are they? I'm not talking about standup. I know they are blue. Is Kramer racist?
Key phrase though. He does not consider them "inferior"
Then he is a dumb racist.
You're not talking about me here are you? Because Rule #1...
I call them like l see them. I don't know who you are, but if you are projecting yourself into my post, that has nothing to do with rule #1. If you behave how I describe I would consider you a dumb racist. That was the whole point of my post.
Right, and I don't know who you are either but based on how you're acting I think you're a hyper reactionary jerk who loves throwing labels and insults around. But hey, I'm just calling it how I see it.
And no, I don't behave how you describe.
Besides, it depends on the joke. I'm guessing a lot of jokes you consider racist, I would not.
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: Right, and I don't know who you are based on how you're acting I think you're a hyper reactionary jerk who loves throwing labels and insults around. But hey, I'm just calling it how I see it.
And no, I don't behave how you describe.
Weird dude. Whatever. Maybe you should take a break.
Key phrase though. He does not consider them "inferior"
Then he is a dumb racist.
You're not talking about me here are you? Because Rule #1...
If you think I a single you out ask yourself this.
Have Jihadin ever gone on the attack on a poster?
If so how often does he go on the attack?
The few times Jihadin has gone on the attack he specified that individual (d-usa as an example)
I use the "does not look at them as inferior" excuse because it seems to justify racist/ethnic jokes.
If you think I am attacking you then press the triangle
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: Right, and I don't know who you are based on how you're acting I think you're a hyper reactionary jerk who loves throwing labels and insults around. But hey, I'm just calling it how I see it.
And no, I don't behave how you describe.
Weird dude. Whatever. Maybe you should take a break.
I did. I've skipped like the last two pages of discussion and got on with my day, I've only now returned to the thread.
Key phrase though. He does not consider them "inferior"
Then he is a dumb racist.
You're not talking about me here are you? Because Rule #1...
If you think I a single you out ask yourself this.
Have Jihadin ever gone on the attack on a poster?
If so how often does he go on the attack?
The few times Jihadin has gone on the attack he specified that individual (d-usa as an example)
I use the "does not look at them as inferior" excuse because it seems to justify racist/ethnic jokes.
If you think I am attacking you then press the triangle
That was directed at Radiation, not you.
Your remark implied the two of you were talking about me, in which case Radiation outright called me a racist. And yes I do know what the Yellow Triangle is.
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: Right, and I don't know who you are based on how you're acting I think you're a hyper reactionary jerk who loves throwing labels and insults around. But hey, I'm just calling it how I see it.
And no, I don't behave how you describe.
Weird dude. Whatever. Maybe you should take a break.
I did. I've skipped like the last two pages of discussion and got on with my day, I've only now returned to the thread.
Key phrase though. He does not consider them "inferior"
Then he is a dumb racist.
You're not talking about me here are you? Because Rule #1...
If you think I a single you out ask yourself this.
Have Jihadin ever gone on the attack on a poster?
If so how often does he go on the attack?
The few times Jihadin has gone on the attack he specified that individual (d-usa as an example)
I use the "does not look at them as inferior" excuse because it seems to justify racist/ethnic jokes.
If you think I am attacking you then press the triangle
That was directed at Radiation, not you.
Your remark implied the two of you were talking about me, in which case Radiation outright called me a racist. And yes I do know what the Yellow Triangle is.
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: Right, and I don't know who you are based on how you're acting I think you're a hyper reactionary jerk who loves throwing labels and insults around. But hey, I'm just calling it how I see it.
And no, I don't behave how you describe.
Weird dude. Whatever. Maybe you should take a break.
I did. I've skipped like the last two pages of discussion and got on with my day, I've only now returned to the thread.
Key phrase though. He does not consider them "inferior"
Then he is a dumb racist.
You're not talking about me here are you? Because Rule #1...
If you think I a single you out ask yourself this.
Have Jihadin ever gone on the attack on a poster?
If so how often does he go on the attack?
The few times Jihadin has gone on the attack he specified that individual (d-usa as an example)
I use the "does not look at them as inferior" excuse because it seems to justify racist/ethnic jokes.
If you think I am attacking you then press the triangle
That was directed at Radiation, not you.
Your remark implied the two of you were talking about me, in which case Radiation outright called me a racist. And yes I do know what the Yellow Triangle is.
Lol. You're projecting. I told a couple of stories an d made a few definitions. You then proceded to get all bent out of shape.
Radiation wrote: Lol. You're projecting. I told a couple of stories an d made a few definitions. You then proceded to get all bent out of shape.
Calls someone racist > mocks them for getting "bent out of shape".
Go ahead and quote that somewhere. I havent called anyone a racist in this thread. I defined a certain behavior as racist. Are you using my definitions to call yourself a racist?
Radiation wrote: Lol. You're projecting. I told a couple of stories an d made a few definitions. You then proceded to get all bent out of shape.
Calls someone racist > mocks them for getting "bent out of shape".
Go ahead and quote that somewhere. I havent called anyone a racist in this thread. I defined a certain behavior as racist. Are you using my definitions to call yourself a racist?
No, I'm saying I was under the impression you and Jihadin were referring to me (seeing as he was quoting something I said). And you explicitly said "then he's a dumb racist".
Can you see why there might be a wee bit of a misunderstanding here?
Radiation wrote: Lol. You're projecting. I told a couple of stories an d made a few definitions. You then proceded to get all bent out of shape.
Calls someone racist > mocks them for getting "bent out of shape".
Go ahead and quote that somewhere. I havent called anyone a racist in this thread. I defined a certain behavior as racist. Are you using my definitions to call yourself a racist?
No, I'm saying I was under the impression you and Jihadin were referring to me (seeing as he was quoting something I said). And you explicitly said "then he's a dumb racist".
Can you see why there might be a wee bit of a misunderstanding here?
Radiation wrote: Lol. You're projecting. I told a couple of stories an d made a few definitions. You then proceded to get all bent out of shape.
Calls someone racist > mocks them for getting "bent out of shape".
Go ahead and quote that somewhere. I havent called anyone a racist in this thread. I defined a certain behavior as racist. Are you using my definitions to call yourself a racist?
No, I'm saying I was under the impression you and Jihadin were referring to me (seeing as he was quoting something I said). And you explicitly said "then he's a dumb racist".
Can you see why there might be a wee bit of a misunderstanding here?
Well there you go.
And you still haven't answered my original question. Were you or were you not referring to me?
Radiation wrote: Lol. You're projecting. I told a couple of stories an d made a few definitions. You then proceded to get all bent out of shape.
Calls someone racist > mocks them for getting "bent out of shape".
Go ahead and quote that somewhere. I havent called anyone a racist in this thread. I defined a certain behavior as racist. Are you using my definitions to call yourself a racist?
No, I'm saying I was under the impression you and Jihadin were referring to me (seeing as he was quoting something I said). And you explicitly said "then he's a dumb racist".
Can you see why there might be a wee bit of a misunderstanding here?
Well there you go.
And you still haven't answered my original question. Were you or were you not referring to me?
Dude, I don't know you and I have no idea what you are talkin about. If you are projecting yourself into one of my posts, there is nothing I can do to stop you.
Radiation wrote: You go to a bar or a party or club.
You tell your favorite racist joke.
You say, "by the way, l'm not really racist."
You take a girl on a date, and tell her your favorite racist joke. You say, "but I'm not racist."
You're standing in line at the grocery store and tell the person next to you your favorite racist joke. "But I'm not racist."
You're out on the street at night and you see a group of drunk young people. You tell them your favorite racist joke. You remind them you're not racist.
You're at work and there is about to be a meeting. You pass the time telling your favorite racist joke. You remind your co-workers, "I'm not racist."
You are a racist in any of those situations. If you don't understand that, than you are a dumb racist.
Nobody but your mommy cares about the special snowflake that is your inner most soul and your most cherished feelings and thoughts. Society will judge you on your behavior. Your words and actions are what others see you as. Tell your favorite racist joke and say your not a racist. You're a coward racist and a hypocrite.
Here is my original post. If you behave like this, l consider you a dumb racist. It's that easy.
Radiation wrote: You go to a bar or a party or club.
You tell your favorite racist joke.
You say, "by the way, l'm not really racist."
You take a girl on a date, and tell her your favorite racist joke. You say, "but I'm not racist."
You're standing in line at the grocery store and tell the person next to you your favorite racist joke. "But I'm not racist."
You're out on the street at night and you see a group of drunk young people. You tell them your favorite racist joke. You remind them you're not racist.
You're at work and there is about to be a meeting. You pass the time telling your favorite racist joke. You remind your co-workers, "I'm not racist."
You are a racist in any of those situations. If you don't understand that, than you are a dumb racist.
Nobody but your mommy cares about the special snowflake that is your inner most soul and your most cherished feelings and thoughts. Society will judge you on your behavior. Your words and actions are what others see you as. Tell your favorite racist joke and say your not a racist. You're a coward racist and a hypocrite.
Here is my original post. If you behave like this, l consider you a dumb racist. It's that easy.
Radiation wrote: You go to a bar or a party or club.
You tell your favorite racist joke.
You say, "by the way, l'm not really racist."
You take a girl on a date, and tell her your favorite racist joke. You say, "but I'm not racist."
You're standing in line at the grocery store and tell the person next to you your favorite racist joke. "But I'm not racist."
You're out on the street at night and you see a group of drunk young people. You tell them your favorite racist joke. You remind them you're not racist.
You're at work and there is about to be a meeting. You pass the time telling your favorite racist joke. You remind your co-workers, "I'm not racist."
You are a racist in any of those situations. If you don't understand that, than you are a dumb racist.
Nobody but your mommy cares about the special snowflake that is your inner most soul and your most cherished feelings and thoughts. Society will judge you on your behavior. Your words and actions are what others see you as. Tell your favorite racist joke and say your not a racist. You're a coward racist and a hypocrite.
Do you think Chris Rock and Louis CK are racists?
Are they? I'm not talking about standup. I know they are blue. Is Kramer racist?
Radiation wrote: You go to a bar or a party or club.
You tell your favorite racist joke.
You say, "by the way, l'm not really racist."
You take a girl on a date, and tell her your favorite racist joke. You say, "but I'm not racist."
You're standing in line at the grocery store and tell the person next to you your favorite racist joke. "But I'm not racist."
You're out on the street at night and you see a group of drunk young people. You tell them your favorite racist joke. You remind them you're not racist.
You're at work and there is about to be a meeting. You pass the time telling your favorite racist joke. You remind your co-workers, "I'm not racist."
You are a racist in any of those situations. If you don't understand that, than you are a dumb racist.
Nobody but your mommy cares about the special snowflake that is your inner most soul and your most cherished feelings and thoughts. Society will judge you on your behavior. Your words and actions are what others see you as. Tell your favorite racist joke and say your not a racist. You're a coward racist and a hypocrite.
Do you think Chris Rock and Louis CK are racists?
Are they? I'm not talking about standup. I know they are blue. Is Kramer racist?
So would you agree that context matters?
Just say what you want to say. But I don't think context matters too much. If you have to sit in a dark room telling racist jokes into a pillow versus impressing young ladies with fancy dinners and your best racist joke I still think your problem is that you're a dumb racist. Call me crazy.
So if a non-racist finds a racist inferior does it makes him a racist?
I am coming out of the closet, i find PS3 users superior to the Xbox users, i think wargamers are more superior than card gamers, and people who like Justin Bieber and Miley Cyrus are clearly inferior
Hordini wrote: I thought you said context didn't matter too much though?
The context you're talking about doesn't matter, because you haven't formally created one. But again, for the purpose of being a dumb racist, context isn't the driving argument or point. You're just a dumb racist, or you're not. It's up to you as an individual to understand the difference.
Hordini wrote: I thought you said context didn't matter too much though?
The context you're talking about doesn't matter, because you haven't formally created one. But again, for the purpose of being a dumb racist, context isn't the driving argument or point. You're just a dumb racist, or you're not. It's up to you as an individual to understand the difference.
I'm not talking about someone being a dumb racist. I'm just talking about someone being racist (or not).
And I don't think I need to create a specific context in order for you to decide whether or not you believe that context is important when it comes to race and language.
Hordini wrote: I thought you said context didn't matter too much though?
The context you're talking about doesn't matter, because you haven't formally created one. But again, for the purpose of being a dumb racist, context isn't the driving argument or point. You're just a dumb racist, or you're not. It's up to you as an individual to understand the difference.
I'm not talking about someone being a dumb racist. I'm just talking about someone being racist (or not).
No, you asked me a couple of random questions. I told you they really didn't make a difference to what I'm talking about. If you have some point to make, then make it, but don't try and twist my posting into something else.
Hordini wrote: I thought you said context didn't matter too much though?
The context you're talking about doesn't matter, because you haven't formally created one. But again, for the purpose of being a dumb racist, context isn't the driving argument or point. You're just a dumb racist, or you're not. It's up to you as an individual to understand the difference.
I'm not talking about someone being a dumb racist. I'm just talking about someone being racist (or not).
No, you asked me a couple of random questions. I told you they really didn't make a difference to what I'm talking about. If you have some point to make, then make it, but don't try and twist my posting into something else.
I'm absolutely not trying to twist your post into something else. I asked you a couple of relatively general, direct questions, because I'm looking for a bit of clarification on the points you are trying to make.
Key phrase though. He does not consider them "inferior"
Then he is a dumb racist.
Taken at face value, your reply here is a statement that someone is dumb for "not" thinking people of other races are inferior.
I guess context really does matter.....or that SWJ's are the real racists.
Later,
ff
Learn to read. The spoiler shows a person telling racist jokes to people and then saying "but I'm not racist and I don't consider them inferior." That's still a dumb racist. Anything else is a misquote and a smear. Or just lack of reading skills.
Hordini wrote: I thought you said context didn't matter too much though?
The context you're talking about doesn't matter, because you haven't formally created one. But again, for the purpose of being a dumb racist, context isn't the driving argument or point. You're just a dumb racist, or you're not. It's up to you as an individual to understand the difference.
I'm not talking about someone being a dumb racist. I'm just talking about someone being racist (or not).
No, you asked me a couple of random questions. I told you they really didn't make a difference to what I'm talking about. If you have some point to make, then make it, but don't try and twist my posting into something else.
I'm absolutely not trying to twist your post into something else. I asked you a couple of relatively general, direct questions, because I'm looking for a bit of clarification on the points you are trying to make.
But it's so easy. I gave so many wonderful examples. Lets take just one to show that the type of context you are talking about doesn't matter because my general argument still works for all the situations l have described.
You take a young lady out for coffee and tell her your favorite racist joke. Then you say, "but I'm not a racist."
Some posts in this thread makes me think of that line from Scarface. "You need people like me so you can point your fething fingers, and say 'that's the bad guy'"
The context you're talking about doesn't matter, because you haven't formally created one. But again, for the purpose of being a dumb racist, context isn't the driving argument or point. You're just a dumb racist, or you're not. It's up to you as an individual to understand the difference.
Hordini wrote:
I'm not talking about someone being a dumb racist. I'm just talking about someone being racist (or not).
No, you asked me a couple of random questions. I told you they really didn't make a difference to what I'm talking about. If you have some point to make, then make it, but don't try and twist my posting into something else.
Hordini wrote:
I'm absolutely not trying to twist your post into something else. I asked you a couple of relatively general, direct questions, because I'm looking for a bit of clarification on the points you are trying to make.
But it's so easy. I gave so many wonderful examples. Lets take just one to show that the type of context you are talking about doesn't matter because my general argument still works for all the situations l have described.
You take a young lady out for coffee and tell her your favorite racist joke. Then you say, "but I'm not a racist."
You are a dumb racist.
What do you mean the context I'm talking about doesn't matter? What context do you think I'm talking about? I'm not limiting it to the context you gave in your list. I'm just asking very broadly, does context matter? Yes, I agree with your example - if you take someone out for coffee and tell them a racist joke and then say "but I'm not racist," there's a good chance that person will still think you're a racist. But I personally can think of some other contexts where that might not be the case, so I would posit that context matters. For example, if Louis CK or Chris Rock tells a joke that uses racially charged language, I probably won't automatically think they are a racist. If I read a paper or hear a conversation in which someone quotes a racially charged statement, I won't automatically think that the author or speaker is racist (although I may feel that way about the person being quoted); it all depends on the context in which that statement is placed.
If you don't think that context matters, then just say so. You don't even need to give an example. Just a yes or no. And if your answer is yes, then I'll say "Very well, I think we agree." If your answer is no, my next question is going to be "Why don't you think it matters?" I'm not trying to trick you or trap you into saying one or the other, I'm just trying to figure out where you actually stand on the matter and have a discussion about it.
The context you're talking about doesn't matter, because you haven't formally created one. But again, for the purpose of being a dumb racist, context isn't the driving argument or point. You're just a dumb racist, or you're not. It's up to you as an individual to understand the difference.
Hordini wrote:
I'm not talking about someone being a dumb racist. I'm just talking about someone being racist (or not).
No, you asked me a couple of random questions. I told you they really didn't make a difference to what I'm talking about. If you have some point to make, then make it, but don't try and twist my posting into something else.
Hordini wrote:
I'm absolutely not trying to twist your post into something else. I asked you a couple of relatively general, direct questions, because I'm looking for a bit of clarification on the points you are trying to make.
But it's so easy. I gave so many wonderful examples. Lets take just one to show that the type of context you are talking about doesn't matter because my general argument still works for all the situations l have described.
You take a young lady out for coffee and tell her your favorite racist joke. Then you say, "but I'm not a racist."
You are a dumb racist.
What do you mean the context I'm talking about doesn't matter? What context do you think I'm talking about? I'm not limiting it to the context you gave in your list. I'm just asking very broadly, does context matter? Yes, I agree with your example - if you take someone out for coffee and tell them a racist joke and then say "but I'm not racist," there's a good chance that person will still think you're a racist. But I personally can think of some other contexts where that might not be the case, so I would posit that context matters. For example, if Louis CK or Chris Rock tells a joke that uses racially charged language, I probably won't automatically think they are a racist. If I read a paper or hear a conversation in which someone quotes a racially charged statement, I won't automatically think that the author or speaker is racist (although I may feel that way about the person being quoted); it all depends on the context in which that statement is placed.
If you don't think that context matters, then just say so. You don't even need to give an example. Just a yes or no. And if your answer is yes, then I'll say "Very well, I think we agree." If your answer is no, my next question is going to be "Why don't you think it matters?" I'm not trying to trick you or trap you into saying one or the other, I'm just trying to figure out where you actually stand on the matter and have a discussion about it.
Now you're talkin. You set up context. Context has meaning. The examples you give are very different then the ones I was talking about. People reading out of a newspaper? I don't know, is the paper called "The Racist Times." I was being pretty specific about my examples. Racist joke followed by "but I'm not racist," makes for a dumb racist. As far as celebrity and stand up goes, you're on your own to decide what you enjoy.
Key phrase though. He does not consider them "inferior"
Then he is a dumb racist.
Taken at face value, your reply here is a statement that someone is dumb for "not" thinking people of other races are inferior.
I guess context really does matter.....or that SWJ's are the real racists.
Later,
ff
Learn to read. The spoiler shows a person telling racist jokes to people and then saying "but I'm not racist and I don't consider them inferior." That's still a dumb racist. Anything else is a misquote and a smear. Or just lack of reading skills.
A) This post is deliberately rude and insulting. A direct violation of Dakka posting policy.
B)There was no spoiler in the response of yours that I quoted. Even if there were, such would have no negative impact upon the point that I made.
C)Nothing you have posted in this reply has refuted my point about context. In fact you have made my argument for me.
Lets break it down, shall we:
You:
Say context doesn't matter. That if someone says something that can be taken as racist then that person is a horribadracistwhomustbereeducatedordie.
I:
Provide a direct quote from you that could be interpreted as horribly racist because of poor sentence structure or Fruedian Slip.
You:
Respond, "Hey your response to my statement was out of context so this proves that context doesn't matter......and oh yeah, you can't read"(See the flaw in your logic here)
Btw, your insults only serve to prove that you know that your stance and the logic it is based upon are flawed. Hopefully, you will know of what I am referencing here.... But, in this age where political indoctrination has replaced education, your ignorance of such would be understandable.
Key phrase though. He does not consider them "inferior"
Then he is a dumb racist.
Taken at face value, your reply here is a statement that someone is dumb for "not" thinking people of other races are inferior.
I guess context really does matter.....or that SWJ's are the real racists.
Later,
ff
Learn to read. The spoiler shows a person telling racist jokes to people and then saying "but I'm not racist and I don't consider them inferior." That's still a dumb racist. Anything else is a misquote and a smear. Or just lack of reading skills.
A) This post is deliberately rude and insulting. A direct violation of Dakka posting policy.
B)There was no spoiler your response that I quoted. If you have since added one that will speak volumes as to your character.
C)Nothing you have posted in this reply has refuted my point about context. In fact you have made my argument for me.
Lets break it down, shall we:
You:
Say context doesn't matter. That if someone says something that can be taken as racist then that person is a horribadracistwhomustbereeducatedordie.
I:
Provide a direct quote from you that could be interpreted as horribly racist because of poor sentence structure or Fruedian Slip.
You:
Respond, "Hey your response to my statement was out of context so this proves that context doesn't matter......and oh yeah, you can't read"(See the flaw in your logic here)
Btw, your insults only serve to prove that you know that your stance and the logic it is based upon are flawed. Hopefully, you will know of what I am referencing here.... But, in this age where political indoctrination has replaced education, your ignorance of such would be understandable.
Later,
ff
Edit for spacing
You're misreading intentionally or unintentionally, I don't pretend to know. And you're trying to create drama where there is none. Everyone else has read my post and knows what l'm talkin about. If you tell someone a racist joke and then say,"but I'm not racist" you are a dumb racist. To try to frame what I am saying in any other way is just dishonest. Later.
You are a racist in any of those situations. If you don't understand that, than you are a dumb racist.
"Everyone who disagrees with me is a dumb racist."
You might be getting the "Most offensive post of the month" award.
There's a difference in actually "being racist" and "doing something racist". The former is an attitude and persists over a long time whereas the latter is a singular behavior.
I am not convinced Dakka Dakka is the best place for this kind of discussion but will leave the thread open for now. In any case, I would appreciate it if everyone involved would kindly scale back the rhetoric. Thank you.
You are a racist in any of those situations. If you don't understand that, than you are a dumb racist.
"Everyone who disagrees with me is a dumb racist."
You might be getting the "Most offensive post of the month" award.
There's a difference in actually "being racist" and "doing something racist". The former is an attitude and persists over a long time whereas the latter is a singular behavior.
By doing something racist you continue to be percieved by others as racist. Stop doing racist things and overtime people may stop seeing you as racist.
By doing something racist you continue to be percieved by others as racist. Stop doing racist things and overtime people may stop seeing you as racist.
Incorrect. You are only perceived as racist if the other people perceive your actions as racist. Telling a racist joke does not necessarily mean that the other person considers you being an actual racist (and if limited to singular events, doing so would be telling more of the other person than the alleged racist).
By doing something racist you continue to be percieved by others as racist. Stop doing racist things and overtime people may stop seeing you as racist.
Incorrect. You are only perceived as racist if the other people perceive your actions as racist. Telling a racist joke does not necessarily mean that the other person considers you being an actual racist (and if limited to singular events, doing so would be telling more of the other person than the alleged racist).
If you want to argue that you should be able to tell racist jokes and not have people think of you as racist, good luck with that. I just can't recommend it as anything other than a dumb idea.
If you want to argue that you should be able to tell racist jokes and not have people think of you as racist, good luck with that.
That's how common sense usually works. If you immediately assume that someone is a racist because he's telling a racist joke, then you gotta reflect your own attitudes / behavior. I'd highly recommend doing so, at the very least.
If you want to argue that you should be able to tell racist jokes and not have people think of you as racist, good luck with that.
That's how common sense usually works. If you immediately assume that someone is a racist because he's telling a racist joke, then you gotta reflect your own attitudes / behavior. I'd highly recommend doing so, at the very least.
If you want to argue that you should be able to tell racist jokes and not have people think of you as racist, good luck with that.
That's how common sense usually works. If you immediately assume that someone is a racist because he's telling a racist joke, then you gotta reflect your own attitudes / behavior. I'd highly recommend doing so, at the very least.
If I think someone might be racist because I just watched them do something racist it is really a sign of my own racism?
If I think someone might be racist because I just watched them do something racist it is really a sign of my own racism?
It might just as well be
It most certainly is a sign of you being an extremely close-minded and judgemental person with no sense of humor. It's very likely that there are other issues just below the surface I'd highly recommend looking into.
I used to work as a physics teacher in Hackney, and my head technician was a Jamaican fella called Lincoln. Very good friend of mine.
One day, Lincoln offers me a cup of tea. I say, "no thanks."
A very short time later, probably less than thirty seconds, Liz (as English as it gets) walks in and also offers me a cup of tea. This time, having changed my mind, I say, "yes"
Lincoln, in his best, most exaggerated, OTT Jamaican accent says, "Wassa matta, mon, you no wanna drink tea from da black man?"
I reply, in my best fake-posh accent, "Lincoln, you know very well that you are a field slave, not a kitchen slave, and you don't make the tea."
Lincoln, Liz and myself all collapse in gales of laughter.
I'm assuming that at least half the people in this thread will now accuse me of racism. The fact is, Lincoln initiated the joke, I escalated it, and he found it funny. I would never have made that joke had a stranger even been present, let alone made that joke to a stranger. Lincoln makes jokes about the fact that me liking jerk chicken and curry goat must mean I am a black man inside. I make jokes about the fact that must mean I also have a large penis. Lincoln says that is untrue, but that he himself does, as a black man, have a massive penis.
In other news, one of my best friends is Natasha. She is half-Jamaican and worked with Lincoln and I. Often, with three people in the room, we had 50% white people and 50% black people. It was a toss-up which one of us got the piss taken. Sometimes me, for being white, sometimes Lincoln, for being black, and sometimes Natasha, for being neither.
Natasha also has a good friend who is Jewish. She regularly takes the piss out of big Jewish nose. He then takes the piss out of her big black nose. If I am present, they then take the piss out of my big nose and point out that I do not even have the excuse of being black or Jewish, so my big nose is actually worse.
One of mine and Natasha's friends, Monique, was born in Korea but adopted as a baby by Australian parents. She identifies 100% as Aussie, speaks no Korean, has never been there. We've had one adult, grown-up discussion about her background, but she said, very clearly, she doesn't like to talk about it, so we never do, and never refer to her birth ethnicity, only her Aussie-ness, which we happily rip the piss out of mercilessly. She doesn't like to talk about her Korean side, so we don't. She fakes outrage at us taking the piss out of her Aussie-ness, but joins in the banter and gives us good as she gets, all with a smile on her face. (In fact, writing this I realise that maybe taking the piss out of her Aussie-ness actually makes her feel more Aussie, which she wants...)
Anyway, please proceed to detail all of the different ways in which I am racist.
I'll start;
1) I felt the need to point out I worked in Hackney at the start of a thread about racism.
There isn't much to decipher; it was said quite a ways back that context and history are important. In this scenario you all knew each other and where the lines were/weren't. If it had been done with complete strangers it could have easily gone a different way. The jokes we make with friends (of varying degrees) are not the same we make with strangers or associates, assuming we have a modicum of sense. Another mystery solved.
I used to work as a physics teacher in Hackney, and my head technician was a Jamaican fella called Lincoln. Very good friend of mine.
One day, Lincoln offers me a cup of tea. I say, "no thanks."
A very short time later, probably less than thirty seconds, Liz (as English as it gets) walks in and also offers me a cup of tea. This time, having changed my mind, I say, "yes"
Lincoln, in his best, most exaggerated, OTT Jamaican accent says, "Wassa matta, mon, you no wanna drink tea from da black man?"
I reply, in my best fake-posh accent, "Lincoln, you know very well that you are a field slave, not a kitchen slave, and you don't make the tea."
Lincoln, Liz and myself all collapse in gales of laughter.
I'm assuming that at least half the people in this thread will now accuse me of racism. The fact is, Lincoln initiated the joke, I escalated it, and he found it funny. I would never have made that joke had a stranger even been present, let alone made that joke to a stranger. Lincoln makes jokes about the fact that me liking jerk chicken and curry goat must mean I am a black man inside. I make jokes about the fact that must mean I also have a large penis. Lincoln says that is untrue, but that he himself does, as a black man, have a massive penis.
In other news, one of my best friends is Natasha. She is half-Jamaican and worked with Lincoln and I. Often, with three people in the room, we had 50% white people and 50% black people. It was a toss-up which one of us got the piss taken. Sometimes me, for being white, sometimes Lincoln, for being black, and sometimes Natasha, for being neither.
Natasha also has a good friend who is Jewish. She regularly takes the piss out of big Jewish nose. He then takes the piss out of her big black nose. If I am present, they then take the piss out of my big nose and point out that I do not even have the excuse of being black or Jewish, so my big nose is actually worse.
One of mine and Natasha's friends, Monique, was born in Korea but adopted as a baby by Australian parents. She identifies 100% as Aussie, speaks no Korean, has never been there. We've had one adult, grown-up discussion about her background, but she said, very clearly, she doesn't like to talk about it, so we never do, and never refer to her birth ethnicity, only her Aussie-ness, which we happily rip the piss out of mercilessly. She doesn't like to talk about her Korean side, so we don't. She fakes outrage at us taking the piss out of her Aussie-ness, but joins in the banter and gives us good as she gets, all with a smile on her face. (In fact, writing this I realise that maybe taking the piss out of her Aussie-ness actually makes her feel more Aussie, which she wants...)
Anyway, please proceed to detail all of the different ways in which I am racist.
I'll start;
1) I felt the need to point out I worked in Hackney at the start of a thread about racism.
Deep down, everyone is racist to a certain point. Preferring "your own kind" over people who look different is a natural reaction. Simply think about this: Would you, as a white person rather live in a completely white neighbourhood or a completely black neighboorhoud? I suspect most people would choose the first option.
Now this kind of racism doesn't hurt anyone, but it is racism nonetheless.
I used to work as a physics teacher in Hackney, and my head technician was a Jamaican fella called Lincoln. Very good friend of mine.
One day, Lincoln offers me a cup of tea. I say, "no thanks."
A very short time later, probably less than thirty seconds, Liz (as English as it gets) walks in and also offers me a cup of tea. This time, having changed my mind, I say, "yes"
Lincoln, in his best, most exaggerated, OTT Jamaican accent says, "Wassa matta, mon, you no wanna drink tea from da black man?"
I reply, in my best fake-posh accent, "Lincoln, you know very well that you are a field slave, not a kitchen slave, and you don't make the tea."
Lincoln, Liz and myself all collapse in gales of laughter.
I'm assuming that at least half the people in this thread will now accuse me of racism. The fact is, Lincoln initiated the joke, I escalated it, and he found it funny. I would never have made that joke had a stranger even been present, let alone made that joke to a stranger. Lincoln makes jokes about the fact that me liking jerk chicken and curry goat must mean I am a black man inside. I make jokes about the fact that must mean I also have a large penis. Lincoln says that is untrue, but that he himself does, as a black man, have a massive penis.
In other news, one of my best friends is Natasha. She is half-Jamaican and worked with Lincoln and I. Often, with three people in the room, we had 50% white people and 50% black people. It was a toss-up which one of us got the piss taken. Sometimes me, for being white, sometimes Lincoln, for being black, and sometimes Natasha, for being neither.
Natasha also has a good friend who is Jewish. She regularly takes the piss out of big Jewish nose. He then takes the piss out of her big black nose. If I am present, they then take the piss out of my big nose and point out that I do not even have the excuse of being black or Jewish, so my big nose is actually worse.
One of mine and Natasha's friends, Monique, was born in Korea but adopted as a baby by Australian parents. She identifies 100% as Aussie, speaks no Korean, has never been there. We've had one adult, grown-up discussion about her background, but she said, very clearly, she doesn't like to talk about it, so we never do, and never refer to her birth ethnicity, only her Aussie-ness, which we happily rip the piss out of mercilessly. She doesn't like to talk about her Korean side, so we don't. She fakes outrage at us taking the piss out of her Aussie-ness, but joins in the banter and gives us good as she gets, all with a smile on her face. (In fact, writing this I realise that maybe taking the piss out of her Aussie-ness actually makes her feel more Aussie, which she wants...)
Anyway, please proceed to detail all of the different ways in which I am racist.
I'll start;
1) I felt the need to point out I worked in Hackney at the start of a thread about racism.
That post has a lot of racism in it. No doubt.
So you think your moral high ground is superior than other people? wouldn't that make you a .....?
Iron_Captain wrote: Deep down, everyone is racist to a certain point. Preferring "your own kind" over people who look different is a natural reaction. Simply think about this: Would you, as a white person rather live in a completely white neighbourhood or a completely black neighboorhoud? I suspect most people would choose the first option.
Now this kind of racism doesn't hurt anyone, but it is racism nonetheless.
Interestingly, I live in both.
In Austin, the neighborhood is primarily independent business people, lawyers, and professional types working at Dell. I feel comfortable there, shouting at kids to get off my lawn. Its pretty quiet. Interestingly, except for people walking or cutting grass, they don't hang outside very much.
In Houston I live in a neighborhood that is 50% hispanic (and majority illegal), 30% black, and 20% white. Its generally all working class. Its a very different vibe but not in a bad way to a great extent. Its much more...loud, like neighborhoods used to be before kids discovered video games and the internet. People are out all over the place. kids playing, teenagers, being teenagers, parents and grandparents hanging outside their front yards. It reminds me of decades ago.
I used to work as a physics teacher in Hackney, and my head technician was a Jamaican fella called Lincoln. Very good friend of mine.
One day, Lincoln offers me a cup of tea. I say, "no thanks."
A very short time later, probably less than thirty seconds, Liz (as English as it gets) walks in and also offers me a cup of tea. This time, having changed my mind, I say, "yes"
Lincoln, in his best, most exaggerated, OTT Jamaican accent says, "Wassa matta, mon, you no wanna drink tea from da black man?"
I reply, in my best fake-posh accent, "Lincoln, you know very well that you are a field slave, not a kitchen slave, and you don't make the tea."
Lincoln, Liz and myself all collapse in gales of laughter.
I'm assuming that at least half the people in this thread will now accuse me of racism. The fact is, Lincoln initiated the joke, I escalated it, and he found it funny. I would never have made that joke had a stranger even been present, let alone made that joke to a stranger. Lincoln makes jokes about the fact that me liking jerk chicken and curry goat must mean I am a black man inside. I make jokes about the fact that must mean I also have a large penis. Lincoln says that is untrue, but that he himself does, as a black man, have a massive penis.
In other news, one of my best friends is Natasha. She is half-Jamaican and worked with Lincoln and I. Often, with three people in the room, we had 50% white people and 50% black people. It was a toss-up which one of us got the piss taken. Sometimes me, for being white, sometimes Lincoln, for being black, and sometimes Natasha, for being neither.
Natasha also has a good friend who is Jewish. She regularly takes the piss out of big Jewish nose. He then takes the piss out of her big black nose. If I am present, they then take the piss out of my big nose and point out that I do not even have the excuse of being black or Jewish, so my big nose is actually worse.
One of mine and Natasha's friends, Monique, was born in Korea but adopted as a baby by Australian parents. She identifies 100% as Aussie, speaks no Korean, has never been there. We've had one adult, grown-up discussion about her background, but she said, very clearly, she doesn't like to talk about it, so we never do, and never refer to her birth ethnicity, only her Aussie-ness, which we happily rip the piss out of mercilessly. She doesn't like to talk about her Korean side, so we don't. She fakes outrage at us taking the piss out of her Aussie-ness, but joins in the banter and gives us good as she gets, all with a smile on her face. (In fact, writing this I realise that maybe taking the piss out of her Aussie-ness actually makes her feel more Aussie, which she wants...)
Anyway, please proceed to detail all of the different ways in which I am racist.
I'll start;
1) I felt the need to point out I worked in Hackney at the start of a thread about racism.
I used to work as a physics teacher in Hackney, and my head technician was a Jamaican fella called Lincoln. Very good friend of mine.
One day, Lincoln offers me a cup of tea. I say, "no thanks."
A very short time later, probably less than thirty seconds, Liz (as English as it gets) walks in and also offers me a cup of tea. This time, having changed my mind, I say, "yes"
Lincoln, in his best, most exaggerated, OTT Jamaican accent says, "Wassa matta, mon, you no wanna drink tea from da black man?"
I reply, in my best fake-posh accent, "Lincoln, you know very well that you are a field slave, not a kitchen slave, and you don't make the tea."
Lincoln, Liz and myself all collapse in gales of laughter.
I'm assuming that at least half the people in this thread will now accuse me of racism. The fact is, Lincoln initiated the joke, I escalated it, and he found it funny. I would never have made that joke had a stranger even been present, let alone made that joke to a stranger. Lincoln makes jokes about the fact that me liking jerk chicken and curry goat must mean I am a black man inside. I make jokes about the fact that must mean I also have a large penis. Lincoln says that is untrue, but that he himself does, as a black man, have a massive penis.
In other news, one of my best friends is Natasha. She is half-Jamaican and worked with Lincoln and I. Often, with three people in the room, we had 50% white people and 50% black people. It was a toss-up which one of us got the piss taken. Sometimes me, for being white, sometimes Lincoln, for being black, and sometimes Natasha, for being neither.
Natasha also has a good friend who is Jewish. She regularly takes the piss out of big Jewish nose. He then takes the piss out of her big black nose. If I am present, they then take the piss out of my big nose and point out that I do not even have the excuse of being black or Jewish, so my big nose is actually worse.
One of mine and Natasha's friends, Monique, was born in Korea but adopted as a baby by Australian parents. She identifies 100% as Aussie, speaks no Korean, has never been there. We've had one adult, grown-up discussion about her background, but she said, very clearly, she doesn't like to talk about it, so we never do, and never refer to her birth ethnicity, only her Aussie-ness, which we happily rip the piss out of mercilessly. She doesn't like to talk about her Korean side, so we don't. She fakes outrage at us taking the piss out of her Aussie-ness, but joins in the banter and gives us good as she gets, all with a smile on her face. (In fact, writing this I realise that maybe taking the piss out of her Aussie-ness actually makes her feel more Aussie, which she wants...)
Anyway, please proceed to detail all of the different ways in which I am racist.
I'll start;
1) I felt the need to point out I worked in Hackney at the start of a thread about racism.
I used to work as a physics teacher in Hackney, and my head technician was a Jamaican fella called Lincoln. Very good friend of mine.
One day, Lincoln offers me a cup of tea. I say, "no thanks."
A very short time later, probably less than thirty seconds, Liz (as English as it gets) walks in and also offers me a cup of tea. This time, having changed my mind, I say, "yes"
Lincoln, in his best, most exaggerated, OTT Jamaican accent says, "Wassa matta, mon, you no wanna drink tea from da black man?"
I reply, in my best fake-posh accent, "Lincoln, you know very well that you are a field slave, not a kitchen slave, and you don't make the tea."
Lincoln, Liz and myself all collapse in gales of laughter.
I'm assuming that at least half the people in this thread will now accuse me of racism. The fact is, Lincoln initiated the joke, I escalated it, and he found it funny. I would never have made that joke had a stranger even been present, let alone made that joke to a stranger. Lincoln makes jokes about the fact that me liking jerk chicken and curry goat must mean I am a black man inside. I make jokes about the fact that must mean I also have a large penis. Lincoln says that is untrue, but that he himself does, as a black man, have a massive penis.
In other news, one of my best friends is Natasha. She is half-Jamaican and worked with Lincoln and I. Often, with three people in the room, we had 50% white people and 50% black people. It was a toss-up which one of us got the piss taken. Sometimes me, for being white, sometimes Lincoln, for being black, and sometimes Natasha, for being neither.
Natasha also has a good friend who is Jewish. She regularly takes the piss out of big Jewish nose. He then takes the piss out of her big black nose. If I am present, they then take the piss out of my big nose and point out that I do not even have the excuse of being black or Jewish, so my big nose is actually worse.
One of mine and Natasha's friends, Monique, was born in Korea but adopted as a baby by Australian parents. She identifies 100% as Aussie, speaks no Korean, has never been there. We've had one adult, grown-up discussion about her background, but she said, very clearly, she doesn't like to talk about it, so we never do, and never refer to her birth ethnicity, only her Aussie-ness, which we happily rip the piss out of mercilessly. She doesn't like to talk about her Korean side, so we don't. She fakes outrage at us taking the piss out of her Aussie-ness, but joins in the banter and gives us good as she gets, all with a smile on her face. (In fact, writing this I realise that maybe taking the piss out of her Aussie-ness actually makes her feel more Aussie, which she wants...)
Anyway, please proceed to detail all of the different ways in which I am racist.
I'll start;
1) I felt the need to point out I worked in Hackney at the start of a thread about racism.
Radiation, I have to say, I find your attitude offensive. Your attitude, and others like it are the reason I posted in this thread. And after pontificating throughout this thread, when someone gives some real examples, you then won't actually either stick your neck out to say something is racist, or wind it back in and admit that racist jokes/comments between friends does not make someone a racist.
I just don't get how any of you feel you have the right to make your judgements on people you have never met, having conversations with people you have never met, then go out of your way to avoid admitting that context matters.
Let me ask this then. Was it racist when Lincoln joked that I did not want tea because he was black? Or was he only jokingly implying that I am a racist? And is that okay? And did it become racist when I responded to his joke by escalating it further?
Seriously, reference to race is not racism. Even by some of the broader definitions given from the dictionaries up there, how are the jokes racism if Lincoln, Tash and Monique do not take offense? Or would you suppose you can speak on their behalf and somehow think that they are secretly offended and are hiding it from me? And why would Monique pretend to be fine about the Aussie jokes whilst being obviously sensitive to Korean references, even in a non-joking, we-are-just-interested way? Or do you seriously believe that us telling each other we have big noses mean we think the other person is truly inferior?
I wonder, Radiation, have you been subject to racism yourself? In my read of this thread, I don't remember seeing you say so, but are your attitudes based on personal experience, or a desire to stand up for the oppressed?
For the sake of openness, I'll say that I am a white middle-class male. The only racism I have experienced is on a fairly petty scale when I lived in Japan, and really never affected me much. A few snide comments, some old lady who refused to understand my excellent Japanese and kept telling me she did not speak English and a few bouncers who would not let me in bars/nightclubs in cities where there were American marines.
That's fine if you think my attitude is offensive. I never said telling your friends racist jokes is a good thing, in fact, I would say doing that just seems like a dumb idea. I don't have much of an opinion on the rest of your post.
Fifty wrote: Radiation, I have to say, I find your attitude offensive. Your attitude, and others like it are the reason I posted in this thread. And after pontificating throughout this thread, when someone gives some real examples, you then won't actually either stick your neck out to say something is racist, or wind it back in and admit that racist jokes/comments between friends does not make someone a racist.
I just don't get how any of you feel you have the right to make your judgements on people you have never met, having conversations with people you have never met, then go out of your way to avoid admitting that context matters.
Let me ask this then. Was it racist when Lincoln joked that I did not want tea because he was black? Or was he only jokingly implying that I am a racist? And is that okay? And did it become racist when I responded to his joke by escalating it further?
Seriously, reference to race is not racism. Even by some of the broader definitions given from the dictionaries up there, how are the jokes racism if Lincoln, Tash and Monique do not take offense? Or would you suppose you can speak on their behalf and somehow think that they are secretly offended and are hiding it from me? And why would Monique pretend to be fine about the Aussie jokes whilst being obviously sensitive to Korean references, even in a non-joking, we-are-just-interested way? Or do you seriously believe that us telling each other we have big noses mean we think the other person is truly inferior?
I wonder, Radiation, have you been subject to racism yourself? In my read of this thread, I don't remember seeing you say so, but are your attitudes based on personal experience, or a desire to stand up for the oppressed?
For the sake of openness, I'll say that I am a white middle-class male. The only racism I have experienced is on a fairly petty scale when I lived in Japan, and really never affected me much. A few snide comments, some old lady who refused to understand my excellent Japanese and kept telling me she did not speak English and a few bouncers who would not let me in bars/nightclubs in cities where there were American marines.
Have the same conversation you had but with a different person, who doesn't think your joke is funny and your butt is now in HR shortly before being unemployed.
It's a bit disingenuous to tell a story about making a racist joke, ask a complete stranger if that makes you a racist, and then object that the stranger has no right to judge you.
Manchu wrote: It's a bit disingenuous to tell a story about making a racist joke, ask a complete stranger if that makes you a racist, and then object that the stranger has no right to judge you.
It is not that he has no right to judge me, it is the attitude some people are showing through the whole thread that bothers me. He actually didn't specifically say anything about me. I say so myself in my own posts. People have been making judgements through the whole thread without context, then as soon as there is some context, no-one wants to say anything concrete.
I'd love to know more about the background of the most uptight people in this thread. Until recently, I lived in a primarily Bangladeshi area of East London, taught in a school with more than 60% black kids and less than 1% white british kids, now teach in a school that is 60% muslims of various race, and until my most recent girlfriend, I've never had a serious relationship with a white girl. The most serious were St Lucian, Indian and Japanese. With that background I just don't see race as an issue in any of my relationships or interactions. I just don't get why other people get so uptight about the most innocuous parts of racial identity.
I'd rather get worked up about the headteachers of my previous school. The current headteacher once complained directly to me that she doesn't like how the school is regarded as the "black school" in Hackney, and how the school needs more middle-class (read: white) kids. Since I left, others have told me she has said the same to them too. The headteacher before her made several offensive comments in my earshot when one of our pupils died in a motorbike crash about how "these people" are being hysterical about their grief and "they" react differently to grief, and so on, and even suggested that because the young man was black, he was a gang member. Now that is two people in positions of power with actual prejudice against black people. That actually bothers me.
Now if someone had argued that "harmless" racial (maybe racist) jokes foster a culture in which more serious prejudice is allowed to thrive, I'd consider that a debate worth having, but no-one has done so. I'd actually consider them wrong, and argue that making a joke out of race makes it something to worry about less, not more, but I'd at least be willing to listen to some arguments and be open to being convinced. People here are often just quoting dictionary definitions and playing word-games.
I don't think that would classify as racism actually.
You don't actually have anything against people that you talk about based on their race, you only mean it in a non-offensive way.
Just be careful of context and point of view when you joke around.
Racism is not just a matter of intention. Most people aren't racist if by racism we mean burning crosses in yards or that sort of thing. Unfortunately, racism (at least here in the US) is more often about 'micro-aggression' and a lot of times this can seem invisible to people who are not regularly discriminated against because of their race.
Radiation wrote: You go to a bar or a party or club.
You tell your favorite racist joke.
You say, "by the way, l'm not really racist."
You take a girl on a date, and tell her your favorite racist joke. You say, "but I'm not racist."
You're standing in line at the grocery store and tell the person next to you your favorite racist joke. "But I'm not racist."
You're out on the street at night and you see a group of drunk young people. You tell them your favorite racist joke. You remind them you're not racist.
You're at work and there is about to be a meeting. You pass the time telling your favorite racist joke. You remind your co-workers, "I'm not racist."
You are a racist in any of those situations. If you don't understand that, than you are a dumb racist.
Nobody but your mommy cares about the special snowflake that is your inner most soul and your most cherished feelings and thoughts. Society will judge you on your behavior. Your words and actions are what others see you as. Tell your favorite racist joke and say your not a racist. You're a coward racist and a hypocrite.
So if they're all racists, can I consider you an imbecile? You've spelled then, you're, and a lot of other words wrong. That or you know, don't judge a book by its cover thing
