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Post by: NuclearMessiah
So it's official we are getting an RPG. Official News I posted up in News and Rumors. Lets keep all discussion on the matter here and keep the news clear.
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Post by: MWHistorian
And I'll officially be pre-ordering that sucker.
I was a HUGE fan of the old Cyberpunk 2020 rpg so this will fill the hole in my heart.
Even if I end up never playing it, the artwork and lore will be more than worth it.
And, I'll have plenty of minis to use for it.
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Post by: Casey's Law
I'm not sure how I feel about this yet. What I do know is I am going to pour over all the new official fluff and artwork that better be in it.
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Post by: Ranor
I can be a bro Knight of Hospitaller?
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Post by: Knight
More artwork and background, always wanted and welcomed. New miniatures should also be interesting, compatible with both systems.
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Post by: Daba
Likely I'm going to pick this up, will be my first experience with 2D20.
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Post by: Rusty Trombone
Not my first choice for expanding the brand, but it seems to have some legs with players on the official site, so...yeay?
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Post by: cincydooley
 Casey's Law wrote:I'm not sure how I feel about this yet. What I do know is I am going to pour over all the new official fluff and artwork that better be in it.
That's sorta where I am. I've never actually played in an RPG campaign, so that makes me a little ambivalent, but I'm more than excited about new fluff and art.
And of course new reasons for minis.
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Post by: IJW
Rusty Trombone wrote:Not my first choice for expanding the brand, but it seems to have some legs with players on the official site, so...yeay?
Out of curiosity, what would you have preferred?
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Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim
 IJW wrote:Rusty Trombone wrote:Not my first choice for expanding the brand, but it seems to have some legs with players on the official site, so...yeay?
Out of curiosity, what would you have preferred?
Video-game? I'd be ok with that!
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Post by: Kanluwen
IJW wrote:Rusty Trombone wrote:Not my first choice for expanding the brand, but it seems to have some legs with players on the official site, so...yeay?
Out of curiosity, what would you have preferred?
Background books for each of the factions, detailing the current and upcoming Sectorials in depth.
Infinity itself is a great basis for an RPG and I really do not see the need for a dedicated RPG product, much less one done by yet another Infinity partner.
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Post by: MWHistorian
 Kanluwen wrote: IJW wrote:Rusty Trombone wrote:Not my first choice for expanding the brand, but it seems to have some legs with players on the official site, so...yeay?
Out of curiosity, what would you have preferred?
Background books for each of the factions, detailing the current and upcoming Sectorials in depth.
Infinity itself is a great basis for an RPG and I really do not see the need for a dedicated RPG product, much less one done by yet another Infinity partner.
I disagree. I think this game was begging for an RPG.
They should make specific RPG minis that can be used in the normal game, that way players can bring their carefully crafted characters into the tabletop game. How's that for forging a narrative?
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Post by: Daba
Kanluwen wrote:
Background books for each of the factions, detailing the current and upcoming Sectorials in depth.
Infinity itself is a great basis for an RPG and I really do not see the need for a dedicated RPG product, much less one done by yet another Infinity partner.
Is there really a problem with there being another Infinity partner? This means that their main focus can stay on the main game, and while I would have preferred one based on the F2F system of the miniatures game, having a partner would be a good call to avoid dividing their resources.
RPG books kind of double up as background books anyway.
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Post by: Kanluwen
If we see a video game, I want to see it done by a big name studio with big name funding.
And I don't just want X-COM: Infinity. If I want to play a strategic game for Infinity, I would be playing Infinity.
I've pitched the idea before of if they do an Infinity video game it should be a FPS/3PS set during Campaign: Paradiso and engage in 'faction hopping' where there are multiple campaigns all telling the POV of a faction during the conflict.
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Post by: MWHistorian
 Daba wrote: Kanluwen wrote:
Background books for each of the factions, detailing the current and upcoming Sectorials in depth.
Infinity itself is a great basis for an RPG and I really do not see the need for a dedicated RPG product, much less one done by yet another Infinity partner.
Is there really a problem with there being another Infinity partner? This means that their main focus can stay on the main game, and while I would have preferred one based on the F2F system of the miniatures game, having a partner would be a good call to avoid dividing their resources.
RPG books kind of double up as background books anyway.
That's why I bought the Iron Kingdom books, for the lore.
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Post by: Rusty Trombone
IJW wrote:Rusty Trombone wrote:Not my first choice for expanding the brand, but it seems to have some legs with players on the official site, so...yeay?
Out of curiosity, what would you have preferred?
A 'Women of Infinity' pinup calendar? 
Eh, fiction of some sort...the kind where I can be lazy and not hafta play along. A tabletop game, for me, is plenty playful. RPG's aren't my cup of tea, though I won't hand wave others' obvious approval here.
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Post by: motyak
So, so excited
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Post by: MWHistorian
I might have to drum up a play group just for this.
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Post by: Kanluwen
Daba wrote: Kanluwen wrote:
Background books for each of the factions, detailing the current and upcoming Sectorials in depth.
Infinity itself is a great basis for an RPG and I really do not see the need for a dedicated RPG product, much less one done by yet another Infinity partner.
Is there really a problem with there being another Infinity partner?
Yeah, there is. This isn't a company doing terrain or bases or anything like that.
This is a company doing an entire game system.
This means that their main focus can stay on the main game, and while I would have preferred one based on the F2F system of the miniatures game, having a partner would be a good call to avoid dividing their resources.
Except it's also going to be screwing up the release of miniatures as the Kickstarter is for "campaign miniatures" which are going to be done by Corvus Belli and have an exclusivity to the Kickstarter before hitting retail.
It's too early to get too irked about that as we have no clue what the miniatures will be but that is just ridiculous given we have just seen yet another roadblock of manufacturing the way CB does with Icestorm.
RPG books kind of double up as background books anyway.
That's nice and all but having a dedicated background book for each faction, showcasing the various units and giving in-depth histories of them would have been much better.
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Post by: MWHistorian
Nah, I like the RPG idea better. It's got the lore of a background book, but I can also play a game. Win win.
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Post by: Daba
Kanluwen wrote:
If we see a video game, I want to see it done by a big name studio with big name funding.
And I don't just want X-COM: Infinity. If I want to play a strategic game for Infinity, I would be playing Infinity.
I've pitched the idea before of if they do an Infinity video game it should be a FPS/3PS set during Campaign: Paradiso and engage in 'faction hopping' where there are multiple campaigns all telling the POV of a faction during the conflict.
I would also prefer an FPS (or some kind of action game, maybe TPS controlling a TAG) rather than an X-Com type, though my preference would be for team vs. type games than a single player story campaign (I guess there's no reason you couldn't do both).
That's nice and all but having a dedicated background book for each faction, showcasing the various units and giving in-depth histories of them would have been much better.
Could appear down the road, like the faction books for the L5R. A connected RPG system makes this kind of thing easier, especially for exploring non military units and general life in parts of the setting.
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Post by: MWHistorian
Daba wrote: Kanluwen wrote:
If we see a video game, I want to see it done by a big name studio with big name funding.
And I don't just want X-COM: Infinity. If I want to play a strategic game for Infinity, I would be playing Infinity.
I've pitched the idea before of if they do an Infinity video game it should be a FPS/3PS set during Campaign: Paradiso and engage in 'faction hopping' where there are multiple campaigns all telling the POV of a faction during the conflict.
I would also prefer an FPS (or some kind of action game, maybe TPS controlling a TAG) rather than an X-Com type, though my preference would be for team vs. type games than a single player story campaign (I guess there's no reason you couldn't do both).
Whatever game they come up with, I'd want character customization.
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Post by: Red_Starrise
Frankly an rpg doesn't really appeal to me a whole lot. 1) it is counter intuitive to the relatively quick gameplay of infinity which is one of the biggest reasons I can get the stodgy veteran 40kers to play it because rpgs take a lot of time. 2) gaming sessions are irregular enough that ttwg campaigns are hard to pull off let alone something that really needs consistency & regularity to make work. 3) most of the time there's only two, at most three of us. That doesn't usually make for a good rpg session. 4) it really seems to me that with a very minor amount of work the TTWG using the spec ops rules would already be a fine basis for an rpg vs reinventing the wheel I guess.
But all that being said those who find it intriguing or appealing: get down with your bad selves
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Post by: cincydooley
Kanluwen wrote:
Infinity itself is a great basis for an RPG and I really do not see the need for a dedicated RPG product, much less one done by yet another Infinity partner.
I think the partnering is absolutely the right way to do it. You do what you're good at, and you hire people to fill those gaps. Many times it makes more sense to do that through partnerships rather than developing your own process with your own people. It's certainly not unique to this business, but is commonplace at Fortune 500s.
A few points without being a quote monkey:
1 - I'd be 100% fine with X-Com: Paradiso. The system is perfect for Infinity, and is a pretty brilliant representation of it.
2 - I'd be 100% for a Bootleg Pin Up Calendar. There's nothing wrong with it. If the FDNY can do a shirtless men of the FDNY Calendar, I'm okay with CB doing a pin up art calendar.
3 - I'd love to see faction books as well, but I think the RPG is a really good start.
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Post by: Kanluwen
 cincydooley wrote: Kanluwen wrote:
Infinity itself is a great basis for an RPG and I really do not see the need for a dedicated RPG product, much less one done by yet another Infinity partner.
I think the partnering is absolutely the right way to do it. You do what you're good at, and you hire people to fill those gaps. Many times it makes more sense to do that through partnerships rather than developing your own process with your own people. It's certainly not unique to this business, but is commonplace at Fortune 500s.
Did you know that Infinity was developed growing out from a RPG run by Corvus Belli staff members?
A few points without being a quote monkey:
1 - I'd be 100% fine with X-Com: Paradiso. The system is perfect for Infinity, and is a pretty brilliant representation of it.
The problem with X-COM: Infinity is the same as what we saw with Dawn of War and 40k--or what we saw with Mark of Chaos and Fantasy:
You want to expand your potential market, not just cater to the people already invested in your item.
A FPS or a 3PS set during the Paradiso Campaign(the reason why being that it is a static timeline, with the end result being known but every single detail is not known allowing for players to get some leeway) that is well-done would be a fantastic way to potentially catch gamers that normally would not even have looked at your stuff before.
3 - I'd love to see faction books as well, but I think the RPG is a really good start.
Faction books would have been a better start.
But maybe I'm biased because I loathe the idea of YET ANOTHER Infinity partner with YET ANOTHER "exclusive item!" and YET ANOTHER company going for Kickstarters.
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Post by: IJW
Kanluwen wrote:Did you know that Infinity was developed growing out from a RPG run by Corvus Belli staff members?
Background and characters, yes, but on and off they've spent the last decade trying to make the existing mechanics work for an RPG without being happy with the results.
Could you explain why you think this?
Personally, I think Infinity is still too small to support seven EIGHT separate background books as a commercial proposition.
Kanluwen wrote:But maybe I'm biased because I loathe the idea of YET ANOTHER Infinity partner with YET ANOTHER "exclusive item!" and YET ANOTHER company going for Kickstarters.
I assume by 'YET ANOTHER company going for Kickstarters' you mean 'a SECOND company going for Kickstarter'?
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Post by: Warsmith262
I would like to see a 6mm-15mm large scale army based game. something akin to flames of war or epic armageddon personally. Tho to be honest I could see why they would stay away from 15mm. it might take away from their regular model sales as 15mm infinity would be pretty cool IMO
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Post by: Paradigm
 Warsmith262 wrote:I would like to see a 6mm-15mm large scale army based game. something akin to flames of war or epic armageddon personally. Tho to be honest I could see why they would stay away from 15mm. it might take away from their regular model sales as 15mm infinity would be pretty cool IMO
I was just thinking the other day how cool a mass battle game would be in the Infinity setting. I'd want it in 28mm, but being able to put in tanks/dropships/loads of troops would be really cool!
Make it hard plastic on sprues and I'd practically sell my soul for it!
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Post by: Kanluwen
IJW wrote: Kanluwen wrote:Did you know that Infinity was developed growing out from a RPG run by Corvus Belli staff members?
Background and characters, yes, but on and off they've spent the last decade trying to make the existing mechanics work for an RPG without being happy with the results.
I won't go into too much detail, but I personally believe it is because they are trying too hard to differentiate the mechanics of an RPG from the mechanics they currently have with the miniature game.
Could you explain why you think this?
Sure. Background books for each faction would have been a great companion to the free rules that exist for the game. Quite often people ask where they can read the background of a specific faction, but not having a single book that you can point them to is problematic.
Personally, I think Infinity is still too small to support seven separate background books as a commercial proposition.
I think that is because you are assuming that the idea I'm having would be big hulking monstrosities like the Infinity rulebooks.
I'm thinking something like the size of GW's "Apocalypse War Zone" books. Somewhere in the range of 68-80 pages would be just about right for a background book detailing a single faction.
Ideally the table of contents would read something like:
--Introduction to the faction and its place in the Infinity universe, with a brief primer on the Infinity universe rolled in.
--A breakdown of the faction, including a description of what the Sectorials have as a role in the overall faction's background.
--Breakdown of each Sectorial and the units composing the Sectorial.
--End with some alternate color plates and alternate unit insignias and things of that nature.
--Maybe have an "Identification Chart" showing the dossier art for each unit.
Kanluwen wrote:But maybe I'm biased because I loathe the idea of YET ANOTHER Infinity partner with YET ANOTHER "exclusive item!" and YET ANOTHER company going for Kickstarters.
I assume by 'YET ANOTHER company going for Kickstarters' you mean 'a SECOND company going for Kickstarter'?
No, I'm meaning "YET ANOTHER company going for Kickstarters".
Not referring to just Infinity Partners in that regard. Kickstarter is too quickly becoming the 'pre-pre-preorder' of miniature gaming.
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Post by: IJW
Kanluwen wrote:
I won't go into too much detail, but I personally believe it is because they are trying too hard to differentiate the mechanics of an RPG from the mechanics they currently have with the miniature game.
Are you talking about CB or Modiphius now?
Kanluwen wrote:Sure. Background books for each faction would have been a great companion to the free rules that exist for the game. Quite often people ask where they can read the background of a specific faction, but not having a single book that you can point them to is problematic.
Personally, I think Infinity is still too small to support seven separate background books as a commercial proposition.
I think that is because you are assuming that the idea I'm having would be big hulking monstrosities like the Infinity rulebooks.
I'm thinking something like the size of GW's "Apocalypse War Zone" books. Somewhere in the range of 68-80 pages would be just about right for a background book detailing a single faction.
That's the size of publication I'm thinking of, not some huge hardback. The main problem I see with your ToC is that there's an awful lot of overlap with the existing books.
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Post by: Kanluwen
IJW wrote: Kanluwen wrote:
I won't go into too much detail, but I personally believe it is because they are trying too hard to differentiate the mechanics of an RPG from the mechanics they currently have with the miniature game.
Are you talking about CB or Modiphius now?
CB.
Kanluwen wrote:Sure. Background books for each faction would have been a great companion to the free rules that exist for the game. Quite often people ask where they can read the background of a specific faction, but not having a single book that you can point them to is problematic.
Personally, I think Infinity is still too small to support seven separate background books as a commercial proposition.
I think that is because you are assuming that the idea I'm having would be big hulking monstrosities like the Infinity rulebooks.
I'm thinking something like the size of GW's "Apocalypse War Zone" books. Somewhere in the range of 68-80 pages would be just about right for a background book detailing a single faction.
That's the size of publication I'm thinking of, not some huge hardback. The main problem I see with your ToC is that there's an awful lot of overlap with the existing books.
But as people like yourself love to point out, not everyone buys the books to get started.
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Post by: cincydooley
I'll never understand why people don't like KS.
If you actually cared about the companies, you'd support Kickstarter. It's an ideal means for a small company (or any company, really) to mitigate tons of risk.
I'd rather see Corvus Belli, Mierce, Infamy, and any number of other companies use Kickstarter to mitigate that risk instead of taking a risk on a product that does poorly (see: Dreadfleet) and ends up killing their bottom line or potentially putting them out of business.
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Post by: Kanluwen
It's not Corvus Belli running the Kickstarter.
It's a third party company doing the Kickstarter.
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Post by: cincydooley
Kanluwen wrote:It's not Corvus Belli running the Kickstarter.
It's a third party company doing the Kickstarter.
I understand that.
So I should care less about whom they've elected to partner with on the Infinity RPG than I should for CB?
Hell, I'd have been fine if CB had Kickstarted Icestorm.
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Post by: IJW
That makes even less sense. As far as I'm aware, CB started with the tabletop mechanics and couldn't make them work for an RPG.
Kanluwen wrote:
But as people like yourself love to point out, not everyone buys the books to get started.
I generally try to avoid pointing out whether people do or don't buy the books, just that it's not necessary to play the game.
The problem then is that everyone who does buy the books ends up with lots of duplicate content if they want to buy any of the faction books too.
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Post by: Kanluwen
IJW wrote:
That makes even less sense. As far as I'm aware, CB started with the tabletop mechanics and couldn't make them work for an RPG.
Because they want to overcomplicate things, IMO.
It's worth noting that Mophidius has now said, at least twice, that the RPG is going to be cross compatible with the tabletop game.
Kanluwen wrote:
But as people like yourself love to point out, not everyone buys the books to get started.
I generally try to avoid pointing out whether people do or don't buy the books, just that it's not necessary to play the game.
The problem then is that everyone who does buy the books ends up with lots of duplicate content if they want to buy any of the faction books too.
Again, that's assuming that the information is just going to be copy/pasted from the main book.
There is plenty of room to expand on unit details.
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Post by: IJW
Kanluwen wrote:Because they want to overcomplicate things, IMO.
It's worth noting that Mophidius has now said, at least twice, that the RPG is going to be cross compatible with the tabletop game.
Where are you getting that CB wanted to overcomplicate things from?
And no, Modiphius have said that they will be adding a way to convert between the tabletop and the RPG, not that they will be cross-compatible.
Kanluwen wrote:Again, that's assuming that the information is just going to be copy/pasted from the main book.
There is plenty of room to expand on unit details.
All I can go on is what you post, and what you listed would automatically include large amounts of duplication, even if it's re-written duplication.
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Post by: carlos13th
When this is released would anyone in the gmt (or close to it) be up for trying a game over roll 20 or similar? Sure we could get enough dakka guys to find a free hour or two on a weekend to get a game together.
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Post by: Kanluwen
I'm just going to let it go.
Good for you all who want this RPG! Yay!
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Post by: AJCarrington
Kanluwen wrote:If we see a video game, I want to see it done by a big name studio with big name funding.
And I don't just want X-COM: Infinity. If I want to play a strategic game for Infinity, I would be playing Infinity.
I've pitched the idea before of if they do an Infinity video game it should be a FPS/3PS set during Campaign: Paradiso and engage in 'faction hopping' where there are multiple campaigns all telling the POV of a faction during the conflict.
While I would have absolutely NO issues with an X-COM variant, I think your idea is excellent...would be all over that one.
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Post by: Paradigm
I'm tempted to sign up for the playtest to get a look at the rules and see how adaptable they are before buying, but at the same time I'm not sure I'll actually be able to get around to playing a session (unless it was online). Is there any kind of obligation to provide feedback for these things, or is it worth signing up on the off chance I do get to give it a shot?
On the subject of a videogame, I think FPS would be the way to go; give me Halo 4 engine/graphics in an Infinity setting and I'd be very happy indeed!
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Post by: carlos13th
In the same boat as you paradigm. Singing up anyway and gonna see if I can get some people,to play online.
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Post by: Paradigm
 carlos13th wrote:In the same boat as you paradigm. Singing up anyway and gonna see if I can get some people,to play online.
I've signed up as well. Time permitting, I'd be up for playtesting in an online session.
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Post by: Space Ranger
Throwing in my 2 cents. One of the reasons there will need to be a different system is for legal reasons. It's a licensed product. Think of how many Star Wars RPG's have been done differently. (Mayfair had the best.) Also I think it wouldn't have been done at all if it wasn't licensed. They can cross into the table top game a bit as long as they have permission to do it. I'm all for this and looking forward to it.
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Post by: Red_Starrise
I'd just like to interject that the reason some people don't like KS is because unlike buying a crappy game if a KS fails you're kinda hosed. I've found good uses for good components of poor games such as using dreadfleet ships for man o war. Or I've written fun rules for bad games with good components. Plus with a KS if you pledge & then the company makes significant changes you may wind up committing $ to a project you no longer care for. Finally I don't understand your reference to dreadfleet bankrupting gw. GW hurts itself with their own policies & only caring about initial sales vs long term sales in their business model.
In summation a bad game may well be bad or that may be subjective. It may not be what the consumers want or do as well as hoped but ultimately that's more akin to the Ford raptor bombing & you bought one & hate it vs buying stock in a company dependent on a big project funded by stock purchases & then finding out that company pulled a Facebook IPO. Neither is ideal but at least with the former you acquired a tangible while with the latter you acquired a kick in the wallet.
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Post by: dementedwombat
This is pretty awesome! I love me some sci-fi RPGs. There really aren't that many out there, especially compared to a lot of other genres. Hopefully this turns out well so I can add it to my collection of RPG books I've never played.
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Post by: cincydooley
You missed the content and point of my post entirely. Well done.
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Post by: IJW
As a reminder, the core rulebook will be a normal release, it's the add-ons that will be via Kickstarter.
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Post by: -Loki-
I'm finding myself agreeing with Kanluwen here.
An RPG is the last place I wanted them to go expanding the universe, but that's because I'm not an RPG player and don't have a regular group to try it. I'd have much preferred a 15mm game with a larger scale to tie into Acheron Falls 'larger Combined Army offensive', or if they wanted to branch our of the tabletop, a series of novels or graphic novels, or as already mentioned, a video game.
But, good for those that will enjoy the RPG
edit - Just to add, I worded my last part badly. That's not to say I won't buy it. I'll dig the fluff and art and might eventually wind up having a chance to play it. I was just hoping for something different.
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Post by: Casey's Law
I wasn't sure how I felt about this when it was announced. I'm still wary because it's new to me and that alienates me quite a bit. But I want the fluff, I want the art, I eventually want the miniatures and I want to try the game. So I guess I'm all in, very literally when that KS rolls around.
carlos13th wrote:In the same boat as you paradigm. Singing up anyway and gonna see if I can get some people,to play online.
I'm totally up for getting a group together for some online play. I've always wanted to play pen and paper RPGs but I've never had a gaming group. So I'm total noob but if you'll have me I'd love to be part of this. Even if we could do a one off with whoever wants in and we'll just find a good time that works for whatever timezones we are all in.
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Post by: Noir
Since the guys making it said the miniature will be for sell after the Kickstart to everyone. I don't really care what else they do.
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Post by: JoeRugby
Paradigm wrote: carlos13th wrote:In the same boat as you paradigm. Singing up anyway and gonna see if I can get some people,to play online.
I've signed up as well. Time permitting, I'd be up for playtesting in an online session.
Paradigm wrote:I'm tempted to sign up for the playtest to get a look at the rules and see how adaptable they are before buying, but at the same time I'm not sure I'll actually be able to get around to playing a session (unless it was online). Is there any kind of obligation to provide feedback for these things, or is it worth signing up on the off chance I do get to give it a shot?
On the subject of a videogame, I think FPS would be the way to go; give me Halo 4 engine/graphics in an Infinity setting and I'd be very happy indeed!
carlos13th wrote:In the same boat as you paradigm. Singing up anyway and gonna see if I can get some people,to play online.
Casey's Law wrote:I wasn't sure how I felt about this when it was announced. I'm still wary because it's new to me and that alienates me quite a bit. But I want the fluff, I want the art, I eventually want the miniatures and I want to try the game. So I guess I'm all in, very literally when that KS rolls around.
carlos13th wrote:In the same boat as you paradigm. Singing up anyway and gonna see if I can get some people,to play online.
I'm totally up for getting a group together for some online play. I've always wanted to play pen and paper RPGs but I've never had a gaming group. So I'm total noob but if you'll have me I'd love to be part of this. Even if we could do a one off with whoever wants in and we'll just find a good time that works for whatever timezones we are all in.
If there is a way to do it online then I'd be up for a couple of team dakka sessions as well. 
It will be interesting to see where they take the games setting because with an RPG your imagination is the limit. Will you be a multinational spec ops team? Cops and robbers or maybe an independent crew of smugglers just trying to cope in the verse? Very excited about this if you guys can't already tell.
For those of you saying about having an infinity video game ( which would be cool btw) 1/ how many good licensed video games have there been compared to the bad ones? 2/ do you think that an infinity the game video game might struggle to get out of the box with the Disney infinity jugernaugt all ready out there?
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Post by: Ronin_eX
I'm absolutely stoked for this. My group is a hybrid wargame/RPG kind of group, so I know they'll be down for me running something in the Infinity-verse.
Mophidius have a great track record in terms of production quality and value, so I have no qualms with that.
The 2d20 system is a good fit for Infinity without basically just being a copy-paste job of the wargame's mechanics in to an RPG framework (which seldom works out very well, though I admit IK made a damn good run at it; though it is heavily criticized for exactly that reason by many RP'ers). The basics of the system are easily malleable to fit Infinity's tone and feel and they should make for a nice medium-crunch engine to drive a lot of different stories.
And they do have some utility for general fans since most RPG books tend to be heavy on setting details. And if there is one part of Infinity that has needed fleshing out for a while, it is the non-military side of things. The various background blurbs for troop types is all well and good, but war games seldom get in to the in-depth stuff (hell, they very rarely even delve deeply in to military stuff) because all of that usually falls outside the scope of the game (even stuff with tangential applicability like how the various militaries are organized; which may be interesting to folks, but wont often come up in game). RPGs are a great excuse to delve in to all kinds of topics and flesh out the game's background and to give it more context.
And that kind of thing can be helpful even if you wargame exclusively. This kind of stuff is a treasure trove for narrative scenario design, it allows things to live and breath just a little more.
So yeah, I'm happy with this in a way few other decisions would have made me happy. And I say this as a guy who would eventually love a 15mm Infinity game. Because the latter would give us a bit more of the same with a different window dressing. But an RPG will be the kind of thing that can really add depth and life to the setting by allowing us to shift our focus away from the warzones and in to other sections of the background.
Man, I can't wait to run this.
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Post by: ckig
An RPG is cool. New minis, new background and stuff. Never played an rpg but I might pick this up anyway.
Anyone else think "are you ready for the truth?" is an odd leading line for it. I was ready to see the light! Some kind of truth bomb that would shake things up. This is just another product release (a cool one though).
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Post by: Casey's Law
 ckig wrote:Anyone else think "are you ready for the truth?" is an odd leading line for it. I was ready to see the light! Some kind of truth bomb that would shake things up. This is just another product release (a cool one though).
Definitely. I actually think this was why at my initial reaction was to feel underwhelmed and even a little cheesed off. I felt pretty cheated by the slogan despite this being big news.
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Post by: Ronin_eX
Eh, they had been teasing for a while with those secret sections of their seminars. I figured that was the truth they were talking about. I think folks were a bit too quick to jump on the "it must be a truth about the setting" train. But, well, the official forums are known for letting rampant speculation spiral out of control... people were carefully dissecting each and every image posted to the website as if there was some hidden meaning to them. Hell, until the Yu Jing picture was posted some folks were double-plus sure it was something about the Tohaa and Ariadna.
I think folks just let their imagination get away from 'em. For the months leading up to now, CB had been keeping part of the seminars "off the record" and after the Feast of Blades one it was pretty obvious that the truth was some kind of news about a general release of some kind.
I'll admit it, when I heard one of the guys in the Feast of Blades video say "they finally did it" during the applause, I figured it was either this or a comic book (both things they've wanted to do with the setting for a while). So this was definitely 100% in line with my expectations.
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Post by: carlos13th
 JoeRugby wrote:Paradigm wrote: carlos13th wrote:In the same boat as you paradigm. Singing up anyway and gonna see if I can get some people,to play online.
I've signed up as well. Time permitting, I'd be up for playtesting in an online session.
Paradigm wrote:I'm tempted to sign up for the playtest to get a look at the rules and see how adaptable they are before buying, but at the same time I'm not sure I'll actually be able to get around to playing a session (unless it was online). Is there any kind of obligation to provide feedback for these things, or is it worth signing up on the off chance I do get to give it a shot?
On the subject of a videogame, I think FPS would be the way to go; give me Halo 4 engine/graphics in an Infinity setting and I'd be very happy indeed!
carlos13th wrote:In the same boat as you paradigm. Singing up anyway and gonna see if I can get some people,to play online.
Casey's Law wrote:I wasn't sure how I felt about this when it was announced. I'm still wary because it's new to me and that alienates me quite a bit. But I want the fluff, I want the art, I eventually want the miniatures and I want to try the game. So I guess I'm all in, very literally when that KS rolls around.
carlos13th wrote:In the same boat as you paradigm. Singing up anyway and gonna see if I can get some people,to play online.
I'm totally up for getting a group together for some online play. I've always wanted to play pen and paper RPGs but I've never had a gaming group. So I'm total noob but if you'll have me I'd love to be part of this. Even if we could do a one off with whoever wants in and we'll just find a good time that works for whatever timezones we are all in.
If there is a way to do it online then I'd be up for a couple of team dakka sessions as well.
It will be interesting to see where they take the games setting because with an RPG your imagination is the limit. Will you be a multinational spec ops team? Cops and robbers or maybe an independent crew of smugglers just trying to cope in the verse? Very excited about this if you guys can't already tell.
For those of you saying about having an infinity video game ( which would be cool btw) 1/ how many good licensed video games have there been compared to the bad ones? 2/ do you think that an infinity the game video game might struggle to get out of the box with the Disney infinity jugernaugt all ready out there?
If you all pm me and get a Skype account we can sort something out.
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Post by: modiphius
Hey guys happy to answer any questions if you have them.
We're working with CB on minis in advance of the kickstarter giving it plenty of time, so it doesn't impact their schedule. We all know this is the most important thing so don't worry we won't be stealing their design time away from the range. Minis will not be vital for the RPG - the 2d20 incarnation for Mutant Chronicles actually doesn't have a tactical system (i.e. squares and metre ranges) but uses 'areas of interest' like a filthy sewer tunnel, a street full of derelict wrecks. It's more narrative. Doesn't mean that's the way we'll do the Infinity version but the point is you won't NEED minis - not everyone likes using them, but of course when i first found Infinity I just thought the whole range screamed RPG minis so i was to be honest I'd say we don't need much for starters as there's so much choice right now. I for one will be having one in front of me just to remind myself the kind of awesome action I should be thinking of - yes kind of Hong Kong movie style flying through the air both guns blazing down the throat of another Combined Army monstrosity or dealing with the backstabbing son a %$*£@ who just turned in your group to the cops.
Anyway fire away any difficult questions and will do my best to answer as I can - if not tonight then tomorrow
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Post by: NuclearMessiah
 modiphius wrote:Hey guys happy to answer any questions if you have them.
We're working with CB on minis in advance of the kickstarter giving it plenty of time, so it doesn't impact their schedule. We all know this is the most important thing so don't worry we won't be stealing their design time away from the range. Minis will not be vital for the RPG - the 2d20 incarnation for Mutant Chronicles actually doesn't have a tactical system (i.e. squares and metre ranges) but uses 'areas of interest' like a filthy sewer tunnel, a street full of derelict wrecks. It's more narrative. Doesn't mean that's the way we'll do the Infinity version but the point is you won't NEED minis - not everyone likes using them, but of course when i first found Infinity I just thought the whole range screamed RPG minis so i was to be honest I'd say we don't need much for starters as there's so much choice right now. I for one will be having one in front of me just to remind myself the kind of awesome action I should be thinking of - yes kind of Hong Kong movie style flying through the air both guns blazing down the throat of another Combined Army monstrosity or dealing with the backstabbing son a %$*£@ who just turned in your group to the cops.
Anyway fire away any difficult questions and will do my best to answer as I can - if not tonight then tomorrow
Don't have any questions, but glad you popped down to answer 
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Post by: carlos13th
modiphius wrote:Hey guys happy to answer any questions if you have them.
We're working with CB on minis in advance of the kickstarter giving it plenty of time, so it doesn't impact their schedule. We all know this is the most important thing so don't worry we won't be stealing their design time away from the range. Minis will not be vital for the RPG - the 2d20 incarnation for Mutant Chronicles actually doesn't have a tactical system (i.e. squares and metre ranges) but uses 'areas of interest' like a filthy sewer tunnel, a street full of derelict wrecks. It's more narrative. Doesn't mean that's the way we'll do the Infinity version but the point is you won't NEED minis - not everyone likes using them, but of course when i first found Infinity I just thought the whole range screamed RPG minis so i was to be honest I'd say we don't need much for starters as there's so much choice right now. I for one will be having one in front of me just to remind myself the kind of awesome action I should be thinking of - yes kind of Hong Kong movie style flying through the air both guns blazing down the throat of another Combined Army monstrosity or dealing with the backstabbing son a %$*£@ who just turned in your group to the cops.
Anyway fire away any difficult questions and will do my best to answer as I can - if not tonight then tomorrow
Thanks for popping by. I know its early days atm and you may not know but what are you planning on doing in terms of people playing characters of different factions? Also will all factions be playable?
Thanks
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Post by: -Loki-
modiphius wrote:I for one will be having one in front of me just to remind myself the kind of awesome action I should be thinking of - yes kind of Hong Kong movie style flying through the air both guns blazing down the throat of another Combined Army monstrosity or dealing with the backstabbing son a %$*£@ who just turned in your group to the cops.
Will the game also be representing the more down to earth, clandestine aspect of the universe? Because when I think Infinity, I think a group of Hassassin creeping their way through a crowded street, making their way to their target from different angles. The Fiday trying to take out a guard to impersonate them, the Lasiq silently taking down security on their way to a rooftop perch, the pair of Muyibs with heavy weapons waiting as backup if the plan goes pear shaped, and the Farzan hiding on a rooftop calling the shots. Not flying around hong kong style.
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Post by: carlos13th
I agree Loki that interests me too. I think being an RPG both should be an option though.
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Post by: modiphius
Yes don't worry the subterfuge, stealth missions, investigation etc are also very much part of it. Part of the whole 'Truth' thing is the potential forthr players to discover done secrets of the setting and this can't always be done with a firefight
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Post by: Knight
modiphius wrote:Yes don't worry the subterfuge, stealth missions, investigation etc are also very much part of it. Part of the whole 'Truth' thing is the potential forthr players to discover done secrets of the setting and this can't always be done with a firefight
Sounds fantastic. I'll be interested to see how you plan to force players into taking non-direct route. I've observed many RPG groups where brute force was always preferred and only option. Certainly it's up to DM and players but I simply find many players not wanting to deal with NPC-interactions and clue gathering. I'd be rather thrilled to go around and talk with various NPC. Ah... I might need to pick up a Netrunner novel now.
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Post by: modiphius
 Knight wrote: modiphius wrote:Yes don't worry the subterfuge, stealth missions, investigation etc are also very much part of it. Part of the whole 'Truth' thing is the potential forthr players to discover done secrets of the setting and this can't always be done with a firefight
Sounds fantastic. I'll be interested to see how you plan to force players into taking non-direct route. I've observed many RPG groups where brute force was always preferred and only option. Certainly it's up to DM and players but I simply find many players not wanting to deal with NPC-interactions and clue gathering. I'd be rather thrilled to go around and talk with various NPC. Ah... I might need to pick up a Netrunner novel now.
If
If you're group like blowing things up and killing everyone that's how they want to play, but as a GM you can impose repercussions on that - the police start hunting them, the families of those they killed start hunting them - life can get very uncomfortable very quickly. You need to teach players that they're not gods running around in their own fiefdom. It's usually more a GM thing - and I come from the school of teaching the GM, not providing endless rules for every situation. If you reward investigation and subterfuge, talking and diplomacy then players will be inclined to try it. Limit ammo perhaps - heavy penalties for carrying heavy arms in civilian places - seriously you want to carry a heavy gun - wait till a platoon of police arrive to capture the terrorist....
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Post by: -Loki-
Isn't that the point of a well made RP scenario?
If the group wants to brute force their way, the GM should have accounted for that. If they wanted to sneak around and do it silently, they should account for that too.
The GM shouldn't be forcing the group to play a certain way. People have gameplay preferences and RPG's are more open ended ways to accomplish the mission.
While I don't have a RPG group now, I've definitely played my fair share. The best for us was always where the GM has accounted for different ways to get through the scenario. What usually ended up happening is each player wanted to do things their way. You had the wannabe sniper always looking for a perch, the tough guy who wanted to punch faces in, and the guy who thought he was the reincarnation of Sam Fisher who wanted to sneak around and knife people, and each player always felt like they were contributing without being unfairly penalised, but also not feeling like they're just invincible..
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Post by: Knight
Communication between all parties is important. I was merely interested, if scenarios/campaigns will require investigations as rather important and focal part. I see the plan is leaving it up to players/DM discretion, nothing against it. A side remark, I don't envy any DM that needs to school the players.
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Post by: modiphius
Knight wrote:Communication between all parties is important. I was merely interested, if scenarios/campaigns will require investigations as rather important and focal part. I see the plan is leaving it up to players/ DM discretion, nothing against it. A side remark, I don't envy any DM that needs to school the players.
Yes scenarios will often require stealth and roleplaying over firepower, and those that think they can shoot their way through will find it hard going, that said, adventures will be aimed at different types of players - some like to shoot their way through, and there's nothing wrong with that if that's what they enjoy. My personal group have this unfortunate tendency to kill any prisoners in Mutant Chronicles and have developed a bit of a reputation - which they're now paying for. They're equally great at roleplaying when they want to - one player is a form filling bureaucrat for a deadly government ministry that plays her character perfect.
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Post by: Alpharius
modiphius wrote:Hey guys happy to answer any questions if you have them.
We're working with CB on minis in advance of the kickstarter giving it plenty of time, so it doesn't impact their schedule. We all know this is the most important thing so don't worry we won't be stealing their design time away from the range. Minis will not be vital for the RPG - the 2d20 incarnation for Mutant Chronicles actually doesn't have a tactical system (i.e. squares and metre ranges) but uses 'areas of interest' like a filthy sewer tunnel, a street full of derelict wrecks. It's more narrative. Doesn't mean that's the way we'll do the Infinity version but the point is you won't NEED minis - not everyone likes using them, but of course when i first found Infinity I just thought the whole range screamed RPG minis so i was to be honest I'd say we don't need much for starters as there's so much choice right now. I for one will be having one in front of me just to remind myself the kind of awesome action I should be thinking of - yes kind of Hong Kong movie style flying through the air both guns blazing down the throat of another Combined Army monstrosity or dealing with the backstabbing son a %$*£@ who just turned in your group to the cops.
Anyway fire away any difficult questions and will do my best to answer as I can - if not tonight then tomorrow
I'll add by voice to the chorus of cheers to having an 'official' representative around to bounce questions and ideas off of!
1) Will there be opportunities to play all of the various factions right out of the gate - i.e., in the Core Rule Book?
2) Will we be able to play from the Combined Army perspective?
3) The Tohaa?
Thanks!
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Post by: modiphius
 Alpharius wrote: modiphius wrote:Hey guys happy to answer any questions if you have them.
Anyway fire away any difficult questions and will do my best to answer as I can - if not tonight then tomorrow
I'll add by voice to the chorus of cheers to having an 'official' representative around to bounce questions and ideas off of!
1) Will there be opportunities to play all of the various factions right out of the gate - i.e., in the Core Rule Book?
2) Will we be able to play from the Combined Army perspective?
3) The Tohaa?
Thanks!
1- yes absolutely
2 - that we're still looking at
3 - most likely though it might be reserved for a supplement - we don't want the core book to be enormous
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Post by: Alpharius
Fair enough!
Looking forward to the core book AND the Kickstarter!
1) Do you know approximately when the Kickstarter will launch?
2) Will you always answer my questions so quickly?
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Post by: carlos13th
Will the book have any kind of learning scenario/tutorial scenario that people can play through to learn the game?
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Post by: modiphius
Alpharius wrote:Fair enough!
Looking forward to the core book AND the Kickstarter!
1) Do you know approximately when the Kickstarter will launch?
2) Will you always answer my questions so quickly?
carlos13th wrote:Will the book have any kind of learning scenario/tutorial scenario that people can play through to learn the game?
1 - roughly summer time, but remember the core book pre-order will be in the spring - probably jan/feb
2- I'll try :-)
carlos - yes they'll be examples of play and an intro scenario that teaches you the basics
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Post by: NuclearMessiah
Not really related to the RPG, but do you feel a bit overwhelmed having to pop into several forums and answer questions? 
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Post by: carlos13th
Last question.
What is your favourite faction?
I don't have any more questions for the time being but just wanted to say thanks for coming here to answer our questions.
These kind of interactions with the people who make the games we enjoy personally make me far more likely to buy into a product or game system. Its always nice to have the people making the games you enjoy be accessible in some way.
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Post by: -Loki-
Honestly I'd prefer Combined Army playability to be reserved to an expansion to have the space to do it right, for the simple fact that given the diversity of races (Ur, Shasvastii, Morat, Umbra, Sygmaa, Exrah (  ), etc) there's room to basically make their options as expansive as the Human Sphere. Even more so.
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Post by: Casey's Law
Thanks for joining us. I don't think I have any questions for you but I am very much enjoying your answers to those that others have posed. I can see you are very enthusiastic and passionate about this which I'm sure will come across in the final product. Having a representative show up has made me, and I'm sure many others, feel much less alienated. I'm excited to start playing! Edit: Oh no I do have a question! 1) Although you are making an RPG game I am sure you are aware that many of the existing Infinity fans are looking to you to bring them new art, expanded universe fluff and more miniatures. a) How do you plan to tackle these three elements and how much will we be getting of each? b) How do you plan to balance these elements against your ultimate goal which is to create a game? c) Do you think that fans may judge your success on those elements rather than the game itself? Thanks.
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Post by: Knight
Would anyone be willing to share the character her or she wants to play or think on playing? Just the rough frame. I'd be keen on reading it.
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Post by: Paradigm
It would probably depend on the exact options available, but I'd probably lean towards a Nomad character as they seem the most free and varied. A Corregidor Hellcat or Intruder could be fun, fast and deadly.
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Post by: NuclearMessiah
I think a Kempeitai would be cool, double agent and a merc.
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Post by: IJW
Hmm. A Moderator team on their daily policing beat could be interesting.
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Post by: Casey's Law
I'll most likely lift a character from my Nomads blog since I spent so much time on them.
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Post by: motyak
I think it could be fun to rough it on Ariadna, a lot of different cultures in the one place that you'd need to be aware of, as well as all the off worlders come for that sweet sweet Teseum. Open and hidden conflict for Teseum, convincing clan leaders to deny mining rights here or there or allow them if you want to get on the companies good side, just all sorts of subterfuge options as well as some good old fashioned gun to face if the group gets bored.
And the special princess of the group who just needs to play some rare race or whatever can play as a Wulver or Dogface.
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Post by: Alpharius
Absolutely - Dawn is a wild, wild place!
Svalarheima is a pretty busy place too...
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Post by: carlos13th
Being a Fiday or other assassin type would be fun.
With a good DM playing as a Dog solider could be a very interesting campaign as dealing with the inherent bias people would likely have against them as long as it was well role played.
Corrigator Nomads would be an easy way to play on a large number of places and missions due to the mercenary nature of them.
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Post by: modiphius
NuclearMessiah wrote:Not really related to the RPG, but do you feel a bit overwhelmed having to pop into several forums and answer questions?
Haha yes it's been a bit crazy these last few days and I can't be everywhere and make our games but I will try to pop in every so often :-) we have a playtest forum on the www.modiphius.com site if people want to post thoughts now.
carlos13th wrote:Last question.
What is your favourite faction?
These kind of interactions with the people who make the games we enjoy personally make me far more likely to buy into a product or game system. Its always nice to have the people making the games you enjoy be accessible in some way.
Thanks I love games and being part of the community is something I think every designer should be doing.
Hmm favourite ? I think right now Im liking Aleph - the post human figures are pretty cool and I'm playing with ideas how you can be a fragment of An AI as a player...
-Loki- wrote:Honestly I'd prefer Combined Army playability to be reserved to an expansion to have the space to do it right, for the simple fact that given the diversity of races (Ur, Shasvastii, Morat, Umbra, Sygmaa, Exrah ( ), etc) there's room to basically make their options as expansive as the Human Sphere. Even more so.
Yes we would aim to have a whole book expanding on the combined army if CB signs that off
Casey's Law wrote:Thanks for joining us. I don't think I have any questions for you but I am very much enjoying your answers to those that others have posed. I can see you are very enthusiastic and passionate about this which I'm sure will come across in the final product. Having a representative show up has made me, and I'm sure many others, feel much less alienated. I'm excited to start playing!
Edit: Oh no I do have a question!
1) Although you are making an RPG game I am sure you are aware that many of the existing Infinity fans are looking to you to bring them new art, expanded universe fluff and more miniatures.
a) How do you plan to tackle these three elements and how much will we be getting of each?
b) How do you plan to balance these elements against your ultimate goal which is to create a game?
c) Do you think that fans may judge your success on those elements rather than the game itself?
Thanks.
Glad I can inspire you! It's great to discuss this amazing game and how we can unlock something new together!
1a- yes there will be new art, more fluff ( we won't just be rewriting what you have already, and a carefully managed number of new minis
B- we are creating an Rpg so everything g has to serve that - the fluff has to give lots of opportunities for great stories, the minis have to be useful for heroes, the art has to show you new things that inspire adventures.
C- I think some will but as long as we make a high quality game that looks beautiful and CB are happy with and plays damn well then we will be happy you really cannot please everyone
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Post by: -Loki-
I'm always the wannabe sniper in the group, so a Lasiq would be super fun to play. Ability to climb the sides of buildings to easily get into position, visor to make longer range shots easier, and a nice, big viral sniper rifle to make sure someone hit stays down.
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Post by: carlos13th
modiphius wrote:NuclearMessiah wrote:Not really related to the RPG, but do you feel a bit overwhelmed having to pop into several forums and answer questions?
carlos13th wrote:Last question.
What is your favourite faction?
These kind of interactions with the people who make the games we enjoy personally make me far more likely to buy into a product or game system. Its always nice to have the people making the games you enjoy be accessible in some way.
Thanks I love games and being part of the community is something I think every designer should be doing.
Hmm favourite ? I think right now Im liking Aleph - the post human figures are pretty cool and I'm playing with ideas how you can be a fragment of An AI as a player...
As someone who is just starting with Nomads I have to say this. I take everything good I said back the game is a wash nothing to see here guys move along.
Nah the concept of Aleph is pretty cool. I am very curious how you deal with playing AI fragment in the game.
 -Loki- wrote:I'm always the wannabe sniper in the group, so a Lasiq would be super fun to play. Ability to climb the sides of buildings to easily get into position, visor to make longer range shots easier, and a nice, big viral sniper rifle to make sure someone hit stays down.
Yeah I prefer to be either Snipers, Sam Fisher types or the kinda guy that trys to talk his way into or out of trouble in what little RPG's I have played.
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Post by: Casey's Law
modiphius wrote:Casey's Law wrote:Thanks for joining us. I don't think I have any questions for you but I am very much enjoying your answers to those that others have posed. I can see you are very enthusiastic and passionate about this which I'm sure will come across in the final product. Having a representative show up has made me, and I'm sure many others, feel much less alienated. I'm excited to start playing!
Edit: Oh no I do have a question!
1) Although you are making an RPG game I am sure you are aware that many of the existing Infinity fans are looking to you to bring them new art, expanded universe fluff and more miniatures.
a) How do you plan to tackle these three elements and how much will we be getting of each?
b) How do you plan to balance these elements against your ultimate goal which is to create a game?
c) Do you think that fans may judge your success on those elements rather than the game itself?
Thanks.
Glad I can inspire you! It's great to discuss this amazing game and how we can unlock something new together!
1a- yes there will be new art, more fluff ( we won't just be rewriting what you have already, and a carefully managed number of new minis
B- we are creating an Rpg so everything g has to serve that - the fluff has to give lots of opportunities for great stories, the minis have to be useful for heroes, the art has to show you new things that inspire adventures.
C- I think some will but as long as we make a high quality game that looks beautiful and CB are happy with and plays damn well then we will be happy you really cannot please everyone
Excellent reply! Thank you!
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Post by: Knight
I did ask for a rough sketch. One of my characters is a PanO intelligence agent working undercover as freelance news reporter.
I hope the background will shed more light on various corporations that play vital role in Infinity, when I was imagining a story it was rather difficult to portray certain characters without going a step further and designing corporations that used said characters. It would be really nifty, if you could also choose affiliation to a corporation from the start.
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Post by: modiphius
Knight wrote:I did ask for a rough sketch. One of my characters is a PanO intelligence agent working undercover as freelance news reporter.
I hope the background will shed more light on various corporations that play vital role in Infinity, when I was imagining a story it was rather difficult to portray certain characters without going a step further and designing corporations that used said characters. It would be really nifty, if you could also choose affiliation to a corporation from the start.
You'll be able to roll a complete random character up, steer their development a bit, or just points buy exactly what you want. Want Pan O - sure, wanna grow up Yu-Jing of course. Wake up as part of Aleph, yep.
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Post by: Alpharius
I want to be a Jotum operator...
OK, not really.
Actually...
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Post by: Space Ranger
I’ve got some questions!
Alph already asked this :( Will the alien Combined or Tohaa be available as PC or NPC’s? (Personally, I can’t see them as PC unless the whole group is playing them.)
Will O-12 and its agents be shown? (This would be big! To have a faction that’s not in the main game.)
Do characters start with basic classes and their skill make them what they are? For example Soldier-Fusilier, Soldier-Kamau, Tech-Engineer, Tech-Hacker. (The thing I liked about GURPs was that the skills you put experience into where what made you what you were.)
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Post by: -Loki-
I think Tohaa would be fine as mixing into a human group. The triad would try to do that for 'on the ground' manipulation.
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Post by: Guildsman
-Loki- wrote:I think Tohaa would be fine as mixing into a human group. The triad would try to do that for 'on the ground' manipulation.
That could be a really cool element. A Tohaa "liaison" who is totally there to help the group, with a hidden agenda that runs parallel or even counter to the rest of the team. Would be fun to play, anyway.
I'd like to run a Nomad. There's a lot of room to explore a character. Maybe a Prowler. A member of the Observance would also be really interesting to rp.
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Post by: Zond
I hope it's mostly background and minimal crunch, and that Modiphius copy Achtung Cthulhu and we get the setting for multiple rulesets, specifically Fate. I doubt that will happen however.
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Post by: bantha_beast
 Guildsman wrote:
That could be a really cool element. A Tohaa "liaison" who is totally there to help the group, with a hidden agenda that runs parallel or even counter to the rest of the team. Would be fun to play, anyway.
You could probably do that with most of the other factions as well. Pretty much any of the human factions could have hidden agendas if thats how you wanted to play them. It will be interesting to see how they deal with existing faction rivalries. Would anyone in a group with mixed faction backgrounds actually trust each other? Or am i just being paranoid!? 
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Post by: Ronin_eX
Zond wrote:I hope it's mostly background and minimal crunch, and that Modiphius copy Achtung Cthulhu and we get the setting for multiple rulesets, specifically Fate. I doubt that will happen however.
Well, they've already announced it will be using the same system that Mutant Chronicles uses, so yeah, not a huge chance of it being Fate-based out of the gate.
But maybe we'll see conversion guides if the KS goes well (Mutant Chronicles got a Savage Worlds book during the KS after all).
But the initial system is already decided and should work pretty well for folks looking for something of medium crunch with more traditional leanings. And it's not like a Fate conversion would be hard once they give us the expanded background info. Probably just do some quick conversions using Nova Praxis if that's your bag. Either way, something to suggest with regards to the eventual Kickstarter if you want to see system conversion sourcebooks.
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Post by: Zond
I doubt we'll see any conversion materials, and yeah, it's not like it's hard to port to Fate. I'm just not thrilled that Modiphius are running it. Whilst the books they produce certainly contain a lot of quality, there's a tendency for their kickstarters to try and create as many supplement books as possible. Or at least it appears that way when you see what the required pledge level for all the books in print is. 
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Post by: modiphius
Space Ranger wrote: Alph already asked this :( Will the alien Combined or Tohaa be available as PC or NPC’s? (Personally, I can’t see them as PC unless the whole group is playing them.)
Will O-12 and its agents be shown? (This would be big! To have a faction that’s not in the main game.)
Do characters start with basic classes and their skill make them what they are? For example Soldier-Fusilier, Soldier-Kamau, Tech-Engineer, Tech-Hacker. (The thing I liked about GURPs was that the skills you put experience into where what made you what you were.)
I think we'll see Tohaa as PC's but the Combined Army are more likely NPC's it's something we're still discussing with CB though. Yes O-12 and it's agents will be around of course and some more surprises...
Zond wrote:I hope it's mostly background and minimal crunch, and that Modiphius copy Achtung Cthulhu and we get the setting for multiple rulesets, specifically Fate. I doubt that will happen however.
We're going to stick with 2d20 on this one unless when we do the survey there's a massive demand for another system. It's really a lot of work to support several systems so we want to put all our effort in to more content than more variations.
Zond wrote:I doubt we'll see any conversion materials, and yeah, it's not like it's hard to port to Fate. I'm just not thrilled that Modiphius are running it. Whilst the books they produce certainly contain a lot of quality, there's a tendency for their kickstarters to try and create as many supplement books as possible. Or at least it appears that way when you see what the required pledge level for all the books in print is.
Are you saying we give you too much :-D
Remember everyone at the basic pledge got over 2000 pages of PDFs - 11-17 books in both Kickstarters for free. All of them are coming out slowly in retail which means the games systems we've launched on Kickstarter are some of the best supported lines around - with consistent releases so that the retailers keep stocking the core books and you can always buy them slowly as they come out rather than all at once. It supports retail to help them make money to survive and gives you more storyline. By funding a lot of material it means it's 100% guaranteed to be produced, if we don't fund it during the Kickstarter then we may produce it if the line is a success, but there's no guarantees. We're not doing everything through Kickstarter though - the core book for this will be a pre-order, various other releases are also pre-orders, but as a growing business you have to be very careful not to have cash tied up in stock - so funding through a Kickstarter basically guarantees the product, and we try as hard as we can to give the best possible deal.
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Post by: Zond
I appreciate consistent releases as much as the next person hoping for their model, rpg or card fix, scratches that itch. Sometimes however it's just too much. Or it falls into the new stuff equals supported fallacy. I can see how this campaign will go already. We'll get a sourcebook for each faction, then each planet. A few campaign books. Again it's all high quality but it could be condensed a lot. Great for pdf pledges, terrible for the print wallet.
Again it doesn't really matter as you have me by the short and curlies as I'll pledge stupid amounts as I enjoy the set to ng, and you run some of the most successful pen and paper kickstarters out there so my ranting means nothing.
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Post by: modiphius
Zond wrote:I appreciate consistent releases as much as the next person hoping for their model, rpg or card fix, scratches that itch. Sometimes however it's just too much. Or it falls into the new stuff equals supported fallacy. I can see how this campaign will go already. We'll get a sourcebook for each faction, then each planet. A few campaign books. Again it's all high quality but it could be condensed a lot. Great for pdf pledges, terrible for the print wallet.
Again it doesn't really matter as you have me by the short and curlies as I'll pledge stupid amounts as I enjoy the set to ng, and you run some of the most successful pen and paper kickstarters out there so my ranting means nothing.
We still listen though, as an example the DUST RPG is going to be more focused - good solid corebook, campaign and maybe another front book and new figures set. Having more books that you can release does help keep it in stores though - when a shop orders a supplement, they also usually order a few more of the core book, so it means you can still get the corebooks and any new releases. We've been learning from experiences and in any future kickstarters will have as much prepared and written as possible before we start up, so we can deliver to everyone quickly afterwards.
For Infinity I don't see a supplement for each planet, I think we'll be looking at areas of the sphere - the faction book will cover their worlds as well, whilst the campaigns will follow stories through different factions.
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Post by: Alpharius
I'm going to start saving NOW.
I resisted Achtung! Cthulhu (Weird War II - one of my favorite genres!) somehow.
But this one?
Now way.
And I still quite Old School - I want printed copies!
Of....everything! 
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Post by: MWHistorian
As long as Chimeras are playable characters, I'm game.
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Post by: Casey's Law
What Alph said. Except I'm just finding out that I love Cthulu so I've still to try and desperately roll that armour save. I'll be looking at your previous Kickstarters to get an idea of what I need to save up.
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Post by: GrimDork
Yeah Chimera would be pretty fun to play/have in the party I'd imagine.
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Post by: Miss Dee
I asked to play test the RPG not hurd anything back yet.
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Post by: Daba
Did you get an auto response, or nothing at all?
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Post by: Paradigm
I got nothing back. Has anyone heard anything?
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Post by: Daba
I haven't heard anything either, I was just wondering if I put my email on since there wasn't an auto response when I did so!
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Post by: Miss Dee
I sent off an email asking.
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Post by: Casey's Law
I signed up on the website which basically sets you up for a newsletter as far as I can tell. Not had any email blasts through yet but I guess when Beta is available we'll all get the details emailed to us.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
P.S. There is a playtesting forum on the website but I haven't really looked at it too closely.
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Post by: Miss Dee
Hi Derina did you sign up to our playtest page at www.modiphius.com/infinity ?
We'll be sending out playtest info at the end of this month
thanks!
chris
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Post by: Casey's Law
Nice, not long to go.
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Post by: modiphius
Spent the weekend with the guys at Corvus Belli doing a massive data dump on the universe, their original adventures and they found their old character sheets so we'll be letting you take original Infinity heroes as Pre-gens in the core book!
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Post by: Casey's Law
Sounds like a lot of fun, was the language barrier a problem at all? Very happy to hear that the original characters will be pre-gens.
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Post by: modiphius
 Casey's Law wrote:Sounds like a lot of fun, was the language barrier a problem at all? Very happy to hear that the original characters will be pre- gens.
No they could speak good english, now I'll have to start learning some spanish as I think we'll be spending a lot of time talking! When you get them started on their old adventures there's no stopping them :-)
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Post by: Alpharius
INFINITY RPG playtest beta stuff is ready for download!
http://www.mediafire.com/folder/492nbz3j9ctjk
Modiphius' Forums...leave a bit to be desired, so let's discuss this here, in the Friendly Confines of Dakka Dakka!
Also:
A few of you asked questions in the sign up - here's some quick answers!
- As you may have heard the 2d20 system core mechanic is actually inspired by the Infinity rules. We'll be talking more about that but have already mentioned this in a couple of podcasts and blog posts in our Advent Calendar.
- We will be producing translations later in the year with other publishing partners for Spanish, French and German (maybe others too)
- You will be playing individual characters from all human factions including Aleph. Supplements will introduce the Tohaa and other possibilities...
- You will be able to use your existing Infinity miniatures if you like to use minis.
- There will be several ways of having characters from different factions working together and there is a big plot for you to follow, as well as numerous other campaign stories, either on the front lines in the Paradiso system or elsewhere in the Human Sphere or beyond...
- Corvus Belli will be producing some sets of RPG miniatures using existing miniatures designs for new players who just want some sample characters, later on and production capacity allowing, Corvus Belli may create some specific miniatures for the RPG. These will not be exclusive to the Kickstarter though will be available there first.
- There will be a whole line of books, we'll be asking questions about what you'd like to see in the next month!
- There will be map tiles and maps for those who like using miniatures with the RPG but neither minis or maps will be required for play. You can simply use your imagination as with other RPG's.
- The adventures will cover both the stories of the Infinity team and their first adventures set during the Campaign Paradiso timeline, but you can also set your adventures during the opening shots of the war when humanity is attacked, or at any other time.
- There will be new and existing art, but we will be showing other sides of the Infinity world that you haven't seen yet, as well as exploring the factions, worlds, technology and more
- There will be a conversion system to take your RPG character in to the tabletop game.
- The pre-order (expected in the 2 months ) will be for fans to order direct from Modiphius, but at the same time we'll be working with distributors to make the books available for pre-order through stores if you prefer to support your local store. However if you pre-order via Modiphius you will receive a series of bonus PDF adventures following the footsteps of the Infinity team's first adventures and you will receive the PDF of the corebook as soon as it's ready.
- The Kickstarter (which will be later in the year) will allow those who missed the pre-order to pick up the corebook with some special deals, along with other books and accessories in the line. The corebook will remain available in retail after the pre-order.
- There will be a special limited edition book in the pre-order and during the Kickstarter. More news on that later!
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Post by: GrimDork
Cool. So there's a preorder, and *then* the kickstarter. Interesting arrangement. May mean the kickstarter backers will have a pretty sound understanding of the core product as it may already exist in the wild before the KS runs?
Exporting your RPG characters to the skirmish game? Could be pretty neat, also broken, but interesting nonetheless.
I look forward to seeing what minis they may come up with. Now, time to go take a peek at these rules..
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^Wow the character sheet alone... damage to specific body parts... good thing we're only tracking ourselves here, wonder if they bother with that for NPCs? Definitely a different system compared to what I'm used to.
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Post by: Paradigm
I've taken a quick look and I like what I see; it doesn't look overly complicated, but still plenty deep enough, and the scenario looks fun. I'm going to have to round up some minis to use as goons and try to run the scenario, albeit against myself most likely.
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Post by: Alpharius
Pre-Order and then a KS raises a potentially interesting dilemma - get the Pre-Order or wait until the KS with then (maybe) inevitable 'better deal' and/or exclusive miniature(s), etc.
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Post by: GrimDork
^True! Also, kickstarters are known for delays, especially if you opt in for extra minis and other gubbins... may end up getting your book significantly later than retail in that case. Although it sounds like a special version at least.
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Post by: Alpharius
I'm thinking that they'll be a pretty good deal on 'bundles' of books, but you've got a good point about delays, and significant delays...
And they will probably be a pledge level that bundles a bunch of books that presume you already have the core rules...
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Post by: GrimDork
Or, what if they have a bundle *with* the core book and all of the extra books when you've already preordered the main rules?
Some manner of herp and or derp is liable to happen, here's hoping they can avoid it
If they really do fund supplements through the kickstarter... it will be interesting to see if they hold shipping 'till everything is ready, or do waves. Waves of multiple books sounds expensive for somebody though.
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Post by: Alpharius
Going by their previous Kickstarters, it gets pretty pricey if you want 'all the stuff, in print' from one of their campaigns.
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Post by: ski2060
I signed up for the playtest, and got the download this morning.
I wouldn't mind seeing about doing some online / telepresence gaming for this.
It's only one scene, and rules shouldn't be too hard to get down.
I'm betting someone with experience playing by Google Hangout or other means could do this a couple times to get some feedback easily.
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Post by: Dark Severance
While reading over the rules, looking at the rolls, heat and the campaign... for some reason all I could think was how I could utilize the rules and modify Zombicide tiles, spawn points, rules to create a cooperative Infinity RPG.... mainly due to the main reason I don't play RPGs much anymore, I always end up having to GM so I rarely get to actually play.
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Post by: Shae-Konnit
So what's this "heat" all about, then?
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Post by: Dark Severance
Essentially Heat is a basic representation of the level of threat for the opposition. It is used by the GM as a currency per say. As the players take certain actions or pay points into the pool by taking a variety of actions. Then the GM is able to spend those points to keep the game moving and developing. Heat lets the GM do things like activate NPCs, Interrupt PC actions or trigger complications. In the Alpha scenario the GM can use Heat to move a gangster horde, move objects to obstruct the players vision, autofire (gains additional 1d20) or cause the players to injure civilians with stray rounds.
For me it reminded me of noise counters in a way in Zombicide, so let me come up with a method to apply it to move 'enemy units', spawn units or create encounters in a cooperative game without a GM.
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Post by: Shae-Konnit
[Marge] Hmmmmm :/ [\Marge]
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Post by: Absolutionis
The CD system is... clunky yet interesting. May be worth getting special dice, but perhaps it could have been done in a more interesting manner.
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Post by: Ronin_eX
Aw hells yeah! They kept the Dark Symmetry (called Heat in this one) mechanic from Mutant Chronicles. I always love GM-facing resource pools (because I want to play the game too damn it!) so it is nice to see these things made the jump. Players burning their long-term fate for short-term gain is always a fun little catch 22.
Just skimmed it so far, but it looks like it took the core of the system as developed for Mutant Chronicles but has tweaked a few things to work better for the setting at hand. Should be fun, may have to run the intro scenario for my group.
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Post by: chromedog
The alpha doesn't do much for me.
I'll wait and see the finished version. ATM, I think Eclipse phase can handle the duties of a 'sphere based game adequately.
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Post by: Shae-Konnit
I'm on my phone so I'll have to be brief; too much text can become a pain :/
Anyway, not that impressed, either...
This whole Infinity Points/Heat thing seems to me like it would be more suited to a fantasy game or at least something with magic, as it conveys a sense of "karmic debt" for lack of a better term. It just feels out of place, to me, in an RPG to represent a game as fairly gritty as Infinity.
In other scifi games I've played, the PCs are elevated above standard grunts by generally being more skilled and with access to a wider range of equipment, rather than magical points.
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Post by: Miss Dee
I have not looked at it as I only got back from my mums yesterday so I will look in a day or two.
In the online dice shop there is a body part location die as well as the odd D 100.
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Post by: Pacific
Sounds promising so far! Keen to hear what the guys who have experience of RPGs think about it.
I'm really actually also looking forward to some of the background being padded out, and hopefully some potential for crossover to the wargame for campaigns and things of that nature.
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Post by: Albertorius
 Dark Severance wrote:While reading over the rules, looking at the rolls, heat and the campaign... for some reason all I could think was how I could utilize the rules and modify Zombicide tiles, spawn points, rules to create a cooperative Infinity RPG.... mainly due to the main reason I don't play RPGs much anymore, I always end up having to GM so I rarely get to actually play.
Heh, I know that feeling ^_^
I already more or less know the rules from Mutant Chronicles, and IMHO the core system is quite solid, rules-medium without much extraneous bloat. The Heat rules seem quite interesting, too. Automatically Appended Next Post:  Shae-Konnit wrote:I'm on my phone so I'll have to be brief; too much text can become a pain :/
Anyway, not that impressed, either...
This whole Infinity Points/Heat thing seems to me like it would be more suited to a fantasy game or at least something with magic, as it conveys a sense of "karmic debt" for lack of a better term. It just feels out of place, to me, in an RPG to represent a game as fairly gritty as Infinity.
Well, it is mainly a rule for narrative pacing. Personally I find those generally useful as a GM, but I'll have to see how this specific rendition works.
In other scifi games I've played, the PCs are elevated above standard grunts by generally being more skilled and with access to a wider range of equipment, rather than magical points.
If you want a more "realistic" system, I'd suggest you might want to take a look at Eclipse Phase. You can get the PDF for free, and the system is stupidly easy to hack for Infinity. Automatically Appended Next Post:  chromedog wrote:The alpha doesn't do much for me.
I'll wait and see the finished version. ATM, I think Eclipse phase can handle the duties of a 'sphere based game adequately.
Agreed on EP, it's a pretty great system that IMHO would be perfectly suited for Infinity.
But as I said I liked the system in MC, so I'm at least willing to try it out.
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Post by: Shae-Konnit
I guess one thing I really don't like is a system to enforce narrative pacing; as a GM I'm generally in control of the pacing and can manage a realistic encounter without a system telling me at what rate it must progress.
Seeing it on paper is one thing, I know, and a playthrough would give me a better feel for such a rule, but right now I really don't like it :/
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Post by: Dark Severance
I haven't played Mutant Chronicles so can't really comment on that but Eclipse is fairly solid.
Shae-Konnit wrote:I guess one thing I really don't like is a system to enforce narrative pacing; as a GM I'm generally in control of the pacing and can manage a realistic encounter without a system telling me at what rate it must progress.
Seeing it on paper is one thing, I know, and a playthrough would give me a better feel for such a rule, but right now I really don't like it :/
I can understand the feelings behind what you are saying, however I'm not perceiving it as simply a 'system to enforce narrative pacing', it is much more than that. I will preface this to say that not all GMs and players are equal in experience or ideas when playing RPGs. It is one of the reasons I end up being the GM or end up taking up the GM role after-awhile. The same is said about players who want to brute force their way through every encounter, which can be fine, but as a group there is a group measurement of 'threat'.
Since it is Alpha and only a very small amount of information, its designed to simply play through mechanics of the combat dice and gave you enough to only do the sample scene. There is a lot more that will most likely to be added to it. I've always viewed an Infinity RPG as more than just 'shoot and captive objectives', that there are more skills, item uses and methods given the future setting that run and gun is an option but there is more. With that in mind the basics explained is a basic reaction/action sequence, for every action there are possible reactions that can happen. The issue with RPGs is that GMs/Players vary so not everyone gets the basic understanding that kicking down a door generates a certain amount of noise, compared to maybe hacking it open. Infinity has a good balance of when a player acts, the opposing players get to react and it is clearly defined in your ARO. The RPG is just using that to help define it more by giving a guidelines of what a GM can do for a ARO and how those situations are created. It also can help players determine 'how much threat' is generated based on actions they do as a team. Sometimes you do need to take the chance and take out a group of guards, but you have a basic understand of what reaction can happen from it. Instead of the GM being "all powerful controller", it brings them to a player level perception (as perceived by players) to give them an idea of what can happen as a result. This also creates a system where newer players/ GMs can take the plunge and makes it easier to rotate a player to GM, taking turns every week, so one person isn't always stuck a GM... but doesn't necessarily need them to all have the same GM skills.
Maybe I'm over-thinking it and granted, its all an assumption of perception based on what is released so far. However that is is what I perceived when I first looked at the basics laid out, how they can be used and expounded upon in a fuller RPG version. Given that it is Alpha, they are fairly open to ideas and suggestions as well, now is the time to voice them in the Playtest Comments.
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Post by: Ronin_eX
Yeah, it is best to view Heat points (or any kind of economy-based action-point) as clear guideline to how often you can throw out complications. In games without such situations it is easy to be too lax or too harsh with this. Someone takes "addiction(space c-c-c-cocaine)" and it never comes up in play, meanwhile that guy with "allergy(spaaaaace bees!)" finds a beehive at every street corner that is easily angered by gun fights.
What I like about Heat is that its back-and-forth economy is based on making players deal with failure (which works best, of course, if you tend to play in a fail-forward kind of manner with failures leading to interesting complications rather than simply stalling out the plot). On the player side, each time they are hit with repercussions or decide to take an auto-failure, they gain Heat that can be used later to succeed. What does this mean? Folks will be less afraid to try stuff! This can be one of the biggest issues in an RPG, breaking the "its not on my char sheet" barrier and getting folks to think outside the box. Incentivizing failure means that folks can totally try and talk their way past that bouncer. If they get up to him and realize they have no way of talking past, they can always grab the Heat and eat the consequences to set themselves up for a later (stress free, because those points wont go to the GM) feat of awesome. Folks that try stuff and make the game more interesting get more opportunities to fill their heat pool which in turn leads the game more toward having interesting and memorable things happen. Don't think about it in in-game terms, this is entirely a narrative meta-game mechanic meant to encourage folks to try things.
On the GM's side it gives them a general ability to pace out complications for PCs as well as giving them a per-game resource pool to help tweak challenge (much in the same ways PCs in many games have a per-game mechanic of making their lives easier) without having to deal with the issues of giving individual NPCs an action point pool similar to what PCs get (the roll that Infinity Points play here, though I will note that these starting characters have far less IPs than a starting Mutant Chronicles character).
It is a multi-purpose tool for the GM allowing them to pace complications, boost NPCs to bring out a greater challenge, while also working as a great source of ebbing/flowing tension.
But as a GM, I am a fan of mechanics that face to my side of the table and allow me to interact with the game without resorting to pure fiat. I think the mechanic will be great for recreating the kinds of Shirow-punk-esque narrative that tends to be the central inspiration for Infinity's aesthetic.
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Post by: Shae-Konnit
I had a big response but overall, I just don't get it.
May be helpful to a starting GM who isn't yet sure of themselves but, personally, it's of no use to me so I'd disregard it.
If I'm already disregarding big bits of the system I feel I may be better off playing something else :/
I've spoken with players and GMs who had experience with games with a similar system and to be honest there wasn't an overall positive reception.
Players didn't like it because their Infinity Point equivelant would get used against them later.
GMs didn't like it because the scenarios and story they designed kept getting hand-waved away when it was most annoying to them so they felt their work was wasted.
Now I'm not saying it shall always, 100% be like this but it has happened so may be worth bearing in mind.
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Post by: motyak
I signed up for the playtest but I've got nothing yet. At least I think I signed up, I must have stuffed up...but dammit I want to tery it ha
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Post by: Dark Severance
Shae-Konnit wrote:Players didn't like it because their Infinity Point equivelant would get used against them later.
Technically in a traditional RPG everything a player does is used against them sooner or later at some point. That is the whole GM (antagonistic) design vs the players. What fun is an RPG if players aren't taking risks or going to try to take an easy route because they are afraid of points being used against them later. The whole point is to make there feel like there is a risk.
Another way to look at it, I'll compare it to Mass Effect gameplay. There is no benefit to not soldier my way through the encounters, nor is my soldiering in any way effect the ability to complete a mission or play the game. I love ME series and I've played other classes, they do take a bit more to play and do require more skills but they don't have an overall benefit to me simply powering my way through with guns. Using guns doesn't generate more aggro or threat from mobs, any different than another class simply sneaking through stealthy. Soldering my way through lets me level up more effectively than trying to avoid confrontation. The system is designed to try to create more methods than to simply rely on a gun. It also gives you measurable methods to determine the cause and effect of those actions.
I will say though I think we are focusing too much on one aspect of the rules. There is a lot more than that like momentum which a player can store for later use and infinity points. These rules just barely touch the surface, really are only outlined to allow testing of gameplay mechanics in the alpha scene. There are going to be more abilities, equipment, actions, and situations which flesh it out a bit more. It is a bit too early to make a judgement of disregarding it to so soon.
Shae-Konnit wrote:If I'm already disregarding big bits of the system I feel I may be better off playing something else :/
Honestly I have yet to play an RPG rules system or met someone that has played or GM'd that hasn't disregarded bits of the system. If there was such a perfect RPG, I would probably be playing it over anything else honestly but like miniatures game they all have their pros/cons.
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Post by: Albertorius
Shae-Konnit wrote:I had a big response but overall, I just don't get it.
May be helpful to a starting GM who isn't yet sure of themselves but, personally, it's of no use to me so I'd disregard it.
If I'm already disregarding big bits of the system I feel I may be better off playing something else :/
I've spoken with players and GMs who had experience with games with a similar system and to be honest there wasn't an overall positive reception.
Players didn't like it because their Infinity Point equivelant would get used against them later.
GMs didn't like it because the scenarios and story they designed kept getting hand-waved away when it was most annoying to them so they felt their work was wasted.
Now I'm not saying it shall always, 100% be like this but it has happened so may be worth bearing in mind.
Not liking a system is a perfectly valid response. After all everyone has their own tastes, and that's good.
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Post by: Shae-Konnit
Dark Severance wrote: Shae-Konnit wrote:Players didn't like it becmisfortuner Infinity Point equivelant would get used against them later.
Technically in a traditional RPG everything a player does is used against them sooner or later at some point. That is the whole GM (antagonistic) design vs the players. What fun is an RPG if players aren't taking risks or going to try to take an easy route because they are afraid of points being used against them later. The whole point is to make there feel like there is a risk..
Of course there is always risk, obviously always risk and always consequence. I am no way whatsoever at any point even suggesting that there shouldn't be.
Just that those players prefered to deal with a situation on their own terms and accept what happens later, rather than invoke whatever points system and invite even more misfortune where there needn't necessarily be any.
In my experience anyways, whenever a difficult situation was encountered we just thought of ways around it. When we had the option of using such an Infinity Point esque system we didn't; we just tried to think of another way.
Whenever there were consequences it was when it made sense; never needed a system to make it happen.
But maybe that's just me. My group and I avoid the whole " GM vs Players" thing as much as we can. I've been a GM for quite a while now, and I see it as my job to construct an interesting world full of interesting people for the PCs to interact with and with an an engrossing story.
I react to the PCs actions accordingly in ways I believe make sense and with regards to the personalities of those NPCs involved. I am not deliberately acting against them.
And before I get hit with a "Well, technically..." I guess I should clarify. Way I've seen " GM vsPlayers" is when a GM just throws NPCs/Situations at the players just to give them something to do or to make things hard for them/challenge them. Not necessarily as a logical consequence of their actions or as a natural progression of the story.
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Post by: Alpharius
 motyak wrote:I signed up for the playtest but I've got nothing yet. At least I think I signed up, I must have stuffed up...but dammit I want to tery it ha
There's no NDAs in place here - just follow the links posted earlier, DL, read, enjoy, review, post your thoughts, etc.!
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Post by: GrimDork
I definitely will say that as a general rule, I don't like games being too heavy handed with how they ask the DM to do things. Heck, I disliked the whole normal/heroic/epic level progressions in 4th ed D&D as they felt too forced.
That's kind of what's so cool about PnP RPGs though, it's not like loading up a PC game and trying to argue with how it's written (though arguably mods allow you to do just that...), you (and to a lesser extent, your players) are free to adjust things until you get the right pace, challenge, and so on.
I'm still really curious to see just how much background and lore we get for Infinity in general from this RPG and future supplements.
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Post by: Dark Severance
Shae-Konnit wrote:But maybe that's just me. My group and I avoid the whole " GM vs Players" thing as much as we can. I've been a GM for quite a while now, and I see it as my job to construct an interesting world full of interesting people for the PCs to interact with and with an an engrossing story.
I react to the PCs actions accordingly in ways I believe make sense and with regards to the personalities of those NPCs involved. I am not deliberately acting against them.
That is perfectly acceptable and I can relate unfortunately they are usually a rarity compared to the norm, at least in my area. Not everyone is going to be the same though, so a system needs to account for the broad spectrum of all instances.
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Post by: Ronin_eX
Shae-Konnit wrote:If I'm already disregarding big bits of the system I feel I may be better off playing something else :/
Honestly? You probably are. RPGs are big, varied, and intensely personal things that some folks may not mesh with. That's cool, there are plenty of fish in the sea and nothing requires that you love the Infinity RPG. I liked the 2d20 system used in Mutant Chronicles and I'm liking the tweaks to Infinity it up with this, so I'll be hopping on board. But folks shouldn't hang up their aspirations of making personal homebrews or using a system they like better just because there is an official RPG for something. Play what you love, life's too short for not running what you think is fun.
But as a lover of meta-gamey narrative design that doesn't assume an all-powerful viking-hat GM, 2d20 is really working for me in a "just traditional enough" way. Still medium crunch with lots of options, but with some narrativist bits sprinkled in to make things feel more dynamic and to encourage folks to get in to things on both sides of the screen.
But not liking it is perfectly valid, so don't feel like you've got to justify your preference. We all have games that we just don't grok and don't mesh well with, such is life.
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Post by: Shae-Konnit
But does it?
I'm not so sure. Personally I like a system that best conveys the setting rather than one just designed to please.
Way I see it right now, I'm not sure that aspect of the system does.
This is, of course, my own personal opinion and not an obsolute.
This topic is for opinions, so I gave mine with, I hope, some reasoning behind it. Automatically Appended Next Post: Dark Severance wrote: Shae-Konnit wrote:But maybe that's just me. My group and I avoid the whole " GM vs Players" thing as much as we can. I've been a GM for quite a while now, and I see it as my job to construct an interesting world full of interesting people for the PCs to interact with and with an an engrossing story.
I react to the PCs actions accordingly in ways I believe make sense and with regards to the personalities of those NPCs involved. I am not deliberately acting against them.
That is perfectly acceptable and I can relate unfortunately they are usually a rarity compared to the norm, at least in my area. Not everyone is going to be the same though, so a system needs to account for the broad spectrum of all instances.
What I said being in regards to this by the way ↑ Automatically Appended Next Post:
But not liking it is perfectly valid, so don't feel like you've got to justify your preference. We all have games that we just don't grok and don't mesh well with, such is life.
I always do like to.
Past experience has kinda conditioned me to this; I've been told too many times, "Oh, you're just saying that because (whatever) >:-( " that I always have my reasoning ready to try to express :/
And in a topic like this I feel like I should. Hell, if I was designing a game and someone says, "I don't like this." I would like to know why
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Post by: solkan
On the other hand, this sort of Heat system is just what the 'bit of a hack, really' person that I know that I tried to play D&D really needs in order to do a better job as GM.
I'm not familiar with Mutant Chronicles so I don't know how the alpha sketch of the rules has fleshed out in the past, but I hope there's a note that friendly (non-antagonistic) non-player characters follow PC rules (and thus generate Heat instead of consume it).
Disclaimer: I don't think "It's always your turn" is a feature of the Infinity setting.
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Post by: motyak
I think this thread is alright to revive, since it contains the majority of the discussion so far.
A local guy just put feelers out for trying it out (finally, I'm so keen), and I couldn't help but share my character with him. I figured you guys would get a kick out of it too. This is what he got from me.
I've even got my character sorted. He's a Swiss Guard who's secretly a dog soldier. He has T2 ammo in place of his knuckles after radical surgery by a nomad surgeon, the Daktari that he later fell in love with. But tragically their love is doomed, for like all Dogfaces he is sterile. HOWEVER, he was contacted by a Tohaa working for the EI, and they promised to unsterilise him if he works as a triple agent for them! So now he is a T2 punching cat-girl loving dogface swiss guard secretly working for the EI. To help with his secret work for the EI he trained with the Oniwaban, becoming the best of the Oniwaban by infiltrating and taking over all the Silk trading into and out of the Pan-O sphere of control.
Since then I've also decided to add that he is who Senor Massacre truly is beneath the mask, and he is also a champion Kum Biker. What do you think, am I in or am I in ha
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Post by: Alpharius
Did your account just get hacked?
I mean, kind of apropos for an Infinity RPG thread, I guess, but still...
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Post by: AnomanderRake
I may have to shelve my Shadowrun conversion until I see how this plays.
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Post by: Absolutionis
 motyak wrote:I think this thread is alright to revive, since it contains the majority of the discussion so far.
A local guy just put feelers out for trying it out (finally, I'm so keen), and I couldn't help but share my character with him. I figured you guys would get a kick out of it too. This is what he got from me.
I've even got my character sorted. He's a Swiss Guard who's secretly a dog soldier. He has T2 ammo in place of his knuckles after radical surgery by a nomad surgeon, the Daktari that he later fell in love with. But tragically their love is doomed, for like all Dogfaces he is sterile. HOWEVER, he was contacted by a Tohaa working for the EI, and they promised to unsterilise him if he works as a triple agent for them! So now he is a T2 punching cat-girl loving dogface swiss guard secretly working for the EI. To help with his secret work for the EI he trained with the Oniwaban, becoming the best of the Oniwaban by infiltrating and taking over all the Silk trading into and out of the Pan-O sphere of control.
Since then I've also decided to add that he is who Senor Massacre truly is beneath the mask, and he is also a champion Kum Biker. What do you think, am I in or am I in ha
I am disappointed they're not ultimately an Aleph LHost Asura Dogface Posthuman Senor Massacre Swiss Guard Oniwaban Kitsune reincarnation hybrid of Joan d'Arc and Achilles given a secret mission by the Tohaa themselves to be the host of a rogue splinted of the EI. Also, dual-wields the Claymores of William Wallace of Earth and Ariadnan fame with a harem of Odalisques as bodyguards.
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Post by: motyak
I am disappointed in you Alph, appreciate my genius!
I was going to add in an Aleph thing but I didn't want to be unreasonable Absolutionis...
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Post by: Alpharius
I was just playing along - every gag needs a good straight man, right?
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Post by: Zond
I had a look over the alpha and had a bit of a mess about. So far I'm not a huge fan, which is odd because it seems similar to the current crop of FFG Star Wars rpgs which I'm a big fan of. I wish it either had more narrative mechanics or ditched it all and made it gun stat porn. It's early days, so something might change that intrigues me, but right now I'll be buying it for the background and using a different system.
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Post by: Albertorius
Must admit that so far it kinda looks interesting, but not so interesting as to use it instead of Eclipse Phase >_>
Well, at the very least I'll be able to use it for the setting material.
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Post by: chromedog
+1.
If anything, I'll use the source material and scrap the system. EP is good enough for me and handles the "vibe" quite well.
I don't care if it can't handle the fine minutiae - most players won't go THAT deep down the rabbit hole.
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Post by: Miss Dee
I have been reading it.
Very promising
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Post by: Trapthem
Anyone here read the latest play test rules?
Having a look through now at the hacking mainly... very, very shadowrun, even own to the names of programs etc.
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