Since Tyranids have received a new model wave without a new codex, which army do you think DESERVES the next wave and why?

This is really hard to say. E.g. Orks got new models after their codex.

I'd opt for SoB or SW 13. Company.

More Tyranids

The fabled plastic battle sister range is looking overdue.

D

IG. Give us back a handful of characters, our stolen artillery pieces and a new unit or two while you're at it!

CSM! Need updated Normal guys :p

I want my characters , my artilery and 130-150pts flyer.

Could be a little more specific?

I want more CSM. I always want more CSM!

New Tau Crisis suits, for love of the Greater Good.

 total0 wrote:
CSM! Need updated Normal guys :p

Actually, yeah, this! Although new CSM in a style like the new Raptors and DV and the quality/options of the new Tactical Squad kit would probably bankrupt me, it would be so very worth it!

Eldar! Let's bring stuff like Warp Spiders and jetbikes into this century

Well, SoB have certainly waited long enough. Failing that:

 Paradigm wrote:
IG. Give us back a handful of characters, our stolen artillery pieces and a new unit or two while you're at it!

This.

Also, could you maybe replace our infantry with sculpts that don't look like angry potatoes?

In no particular order...

Crisis Suits and Fire Warriors - Tau have great model generally, but some of them are just too much... Shapes. No grit, no edge. Maybe some combat blades and gear, alongside some cloth with symbols on the Warriors and just... Just redone Crisis Suits. More technology and sci-fi, less shapes and asian influence.

Chaos Space Marines - They don't fit the current lore and feel of the Traitors at all - More DV Chosen and less rejected Iron Maiden cover stand-ins.

Assassins - The models aren't bad, but they aren't fitting either. A few clampacks can't hurt... In fact, you could even make a single box with options for every assassin, making one assassin per box.

Adepta Sororitas - No explanation needed.

Squats. They've been neglected for decades.

Maybe the ork wartrakk? With the guys on top smaller then epic. The models from Gorka Morka! !:O

 Frazzled wrote:
Squats. They've been neglected for decades.

There's always one

 Paradigm wrote:
IG. Give us back a handful of characters, our stolen artillery pieces and a new unit or two while you're at it!

I spent a month converting a Basilisk into a Colossus.... and then a month later the IG 7th edition hit and it was removed.
Now I'm struggling to use him as a counts-as. I don't want a Wyvern or a Manticore and I have a Deathstrike already, so really I'm left with a Basilisk which is just another kick in the balls considering I converted him FROM a basilisk lol.

Also, before 7th I converted up Chenkov and Marbo.
I've re-purposed Chenkov into a Veteran Sergeant but Marbo is tougher. I'm thinking he's going to have to go into my pile of models that I plan to use for a future Diorama.

So therefore, I agree... I want our characters and arty back!

The one most in need of a new release is the one least likely to get it.
Sisters of Battle.

According to the Tyranid Rumours, the Shield of Baal Nid Book will be AM, SoB and Militarum Tempetus as well as the aforementioned Tyranids.

I guess that leaves CSM as the army that needs some new models for me

The only proper answer is sisters. They pay outrageous prices for a single squad, their models are all metal, monopose, ugly as sin and old. Lets at least see some finecast sister HQ models before we see more murderwolfs or santa-logans, or the fabled bloodcoffin pulled by bloodbats with bloodthirst and bloodrage.

There's 3 armies just crying for a bucketload of new models right now...

1. Eldar
ALL their Aspect Warriors bar the Avengers need shifting from Finecrap into proper plastic kits. New Jetbikes to replace the old & tired 90's ancients. A proper-sized Avatar of Khaine that doesn't involve buying the DE Cauldron of Blood!

2. Chaos Marines
3 of the 4 Cult Marine squads require updating into plastic. The basic Chaos Marines themselves & Khorne Berserkers could do with new kits as well as those models have aged horribly.
Havocs & Chosen require an actual kit!
Oblits + Mutilators are an easy candidate for dual kit treatment.

3. Daemons of Chaos
Fiend, Beasts, Flesh Hounds and Furies all need updating into proper plastic kits as they're still crappy Fineco$t models.
Where the gak are those plastic GREATER! Daemons GW/?!! seriously, the current ones are easily the worst looking models in the entire 40k range, and have serious Napolean complexes as they struggle to peer over a bloody Crisis suit, while being forced to hack at the kneecaps of other MC's who tower over them...



Note, I purposely left Sisters off the list as they really require a full-on 5th ed Dark Eldar style release encompassing a full-on 4-5 weeks, and not just a simple 2-3 week wave release ala Tyranids, which is what these 3 armies really require.

I think the only ones who can claim absolute and unquestioning support for new models are the Sisters of Negligence.

When they do Necrons in a couple of months or so there will be some new nec kits. BAs can allways kitbash something or other from the metric tons of SM parts and some red paint. All others got some toys in the last 1-2 years. While that doesn't mean that all needs are satisfied - Daemons and CSM look 3rd-4th edition, Ork buggies are older than the Emperor himself, not all guards players want Cadians, ... - the sisters haven't got anything for much longer than that.

 Kosake wrote:
I think the only ones who can claim absolute and unquestioning support for new models are the Sisters of Negligence.

When they do Necrons in a couple of months or so there will be some new nec kits. BAs can allways kitbash something or other from the metric tons of SM parts and some red paint. All others got some toys in the last 1-2 years. While that doesn't mean that all needs are satisfied - Daemons and CSM look 3rd-4th edition, Ork buggies are older than the Emperor himself, not all guards players want Cadians, ... - the sisters haven't got anything for much longer than that.

Except the thread is about which army deserves the next model wave, not which army needs a full-on "new army" styled release...
Sisters can't be done with a 2-3 week wave release. They really need a proper 4-5 week 'new army release'.

An Eldar wave would look like;
Week 1 = Fire Dragon/Dark Reaper dual kit
Week 2 = Jetbike/Shining Spears dual kit
Week 3 = Striking Scorpions + Autarch clamshell pack

A CSM wave could look like;
Week 1 = Havoc/Chosen dual kit
Week 2 = Thousand Sons kit
Week 3 = Noise Marines kit

A Daemons wave could look like;
Week 1 = Furies/new unit dual kit + Greater Daemon
Week 2 = Fiends + Greater Daemon
Week 3 = Last 2 of the Greaters

Sisters are in the most dire need, but GW has never been able to produce female features very well, so I think that will continue to stall their update for years to come.

Whichever army has gone the longest without new stuff.

Alternatively, all of them.

Eldar - Even though a few of their items were made to resin, they are still old sculpts in most cases. Not to mention the Jetbikes.

Although this is after Sisters, who deserve it far more...but evidently GW forgot they exist.

Experiment 626 wrote:

 Kosake wrote:
I think the only ones who can claim absolute and unquestioning support for new models are the Sisters of Negligence.

When they do Necrons in a couple of months or so there will be some new nec kits. BAs can allways kitbash something or other from the metric tons of SM parts and some red paint. All others got some toys in the last 1-2 years. While that doesn't mean that all needs are satisfied - Daemons and CSM look 3rd-4th edition, Ork buggies are older than the Emperor himself, not all guards players want Cadians, ... - the sisters haven't got anything for much longer than that.

Except the thread is about which army deserves the next model wave, not which army needs a full-on "new army" styled release...
Sisters can't be done with a 2-3 week wave release. They really need a proper 4-5 week 'new army release'.

An Eldar wave would look like;
Week 1 = Fire Dragon/Dark Reaper dual kit
Week 2 = Jetbike/Shining Spears dual kit
Week 3 = Striking Scorpions + Autarch clamshell pack

A CSM wave could look like;
Week 1 = Havoc/Chosen dual kit
Week 2 = Thousand Sons kit
Week 3 = Noise Marines kit

A Daemons wave could look like;
Week 1 = Furies/new unit dual kit + Greater Daemon
Week 2 = Fiends + Greater Daemon
Week 3 = Last 2 of the Greaters

Box 1. Sister squad with added heavy weapons to also make a ret squad. Also, bits to make one Sister into a HQ. (Or go full on Command Squad in separate box.)
Box 2. New living saint with options
Box 3. Plastic Repentia. (redesigned from ground up.)
Box 4. Plastic Penitent Engines.

Four boxes, at most 5 and that would go soooooooooooooooo far in making the SOB viable.
But GW won't because they can't be bothered.

This is kind of jumping to conclusions, really. Though I would like GW to do this sort of thing in the future, I reckon that this model wave could simply be to patch up the hole left by the chapterhouse malarkey and I'm not convinced that GW will do this again for any other armies.

Like I say though, I'd like to be proved wrong and, if I was, I'd like to be proved wrong by a new wave of DE, Eldar or CSM.

The former lost a lot of models in the transition to its 7th edition codex, something which could well be rectified by new units. Eldar simply need more plastic models, something which a few dual kits would set right, and CSM could really do with some more variety and strong units. They've fallen out of favour recently and I think sales would shoot up if GW were to release some good, strong units in WD.

Obvious choice...Space Marine assault squads.

Mine. Because it would be the first new model release for the eleven years I have played the army.
For reference :
- It took three years for the Manhattan project to create an atom bomb
- It took seven years between when Grumman Aircraft was chosen to design the Apollo Lunar Module and when said Lunar Module landed on the moon.
- It took two years to build the Eiffel Tower, or the Empire State Building

 The Shadow wrote:
This is kind of jumping to conclusions, really. Though I would like GW to do this sort of thing in the future, I reckon that this model wave could simply be to patch up the hole left by the chapterhouse malarkey and I'm not convinced that GW will do this again for any other armies.

Like I say though, I'd like to be proved wrong and, if I was, I'd like to be proved wrong by a new wave of DE, Eldar or CSM.

The former lost a lot of models in the transition to its 7th edition codex, something which could well be rectified by new units. Eldar simply need more plastic models, something which a few dual kits would set right, and CSM could really do with some more variety and strong units. They've fallen out of favour recently and I think sales would shoot up if GW were to release some good, strong units in WD.

If the response is increased revenues coupled with profits, they will continue to do this. Dollars determines direction.

Blood Angels. They need their new book before we all need new shiny models.

Ehh, I think Sisters of Battle still have everyone beat.

I'm assuming the reason not everyone is agreeing with that is because they simply don't see GW doing the release no matter what.

Sisters of Battle. Plz, GW, just give us a 10 man plastic squad for $40 and rake in the dough.

I'd say Sisters of Battle. From what I understand, they haven't gotten anything new in quite some time.

 Accolade wrote:
Ehh, I think Sisters of Battle still have everyone beat.

I'm assuming the reason not everyone is agreeing with that is because they simply don't see GW doing the release no matter what.

At this point we could probably do a fundraiser, get the money for the machinery for GW, work out the designs, kidnap their children and blackmail them and they'd still not do a SOB release. It's past the point of comical. Either kill the line or do something with it. Even purgatory has an end.

CSM! They are meant to be sinful, not have models which look ugly as sin - I give you the Mutilators!

NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:
CSM! They are meant to be sinful, not have models which look ugly as sin - I give you the Mutilators!

Hehe...I could do without the dinobots too.

Chaos Space Marines pls. We need Chosen models, updated Troops (argh monopose legs), new Havoc kits, expanded bike kits, updated Obliterator models that don't look like gak, and something like normal space marine drop pods and maybe some more heavy support options that can deal with flyers better.

Ref Havocs , it says a whole lot that you need to scour eBay for bits, or use Devestator squads, in order to make the Havos squads you want.

CSM, for a number of reasons...

Standard Marine parts need some love.

Khorne Berzerkers need some love.

Noise Marines, Thousand Sons, and Plague Marines should each get their own package and unique bodies, not just "upgrade parts".

Chosen need a box.

Cultists need a proper box, enough of the mono poses.

Oblits\Mutilators are definitely easy multi-box options.

A decent multi-pose lord kit, not just for a terminator lord.

Havocs definitely need a rethink...honestly, I would do them how other cults are done currently. Buy standard space marines, purchase Havoc Upgrade, get sprues that give you 4 of each heavy weapon option. Expensive, but at least you'd get what you want.

 Zande4 wrote:
More Tyranids

Yes, We need bigger bugs!

Sisters, not seen a update in years I seems.
At least make them a playable ally.

 Aipoch wrote:
CSM, for a number of reasons...

Standard Marine parts need some love.

Khorne Berzerkers need some love.

Noise Marines, Thousand Sons, and Plague Marines should each get their own package and unique bodies, not just "upgrade parts".

Chosen need a box.

Cultists need a proper box, enough of the mono poses.

Oblits\Mutilators are definitely easy multi-box options.

A decent multi-pose lord kit, not just for a terminator lord.

Havocs definitely need a rethink...honestly, I would do them how other cults are done currently. Buy standard space marines, purchase Havoc Upgrade, get sprues that give you 4 of each heavy weapon option. Expensive, but at least you'd get what you want.

I'd kill for a Havoc set that gives us:
2x each of the special weapons (Flamer, Meltagun, Plasma gun)
2x Lascannon
2x Autocannon
2x Heavy bolter
1x Missile launcher
And then throw in the current 'upgrade' sprue that comes in the CSM kit.


Two of those and you've got yourself a solid Havoc squad + a bunch of added specials for building a unit of Chosen.

 jasper76 wrote:
I'd say Sisters of Battle. From what I understand, they haven't gotten anything new in quite some time.

 jhe90 wrote:
Sisters, not seen a update in years I seems.

Guys, the answer was just above.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Mine. Because it would be the first new model release for the eleven years I have played the army.
For reference :
- It took three years for the Manhattan project to create an atom bomb
- It took seven years between when Grumman Aircraft was chosen to design the Apollo Lunar Module and when said Lunar Module landed on the moon.
- It took two years to build the Eiffel Tower, or the Empire State Building

That was literal.

Experiment 626 wrote:

 Aipoch wrote:
CSM, for a number of reasons...

Standard Marine parts need some love.

Khorne Berzerkers need some love.

Noise Marines, Thousand Sons, and Plague Marines should each get their own package and unique bodies, not just "upgrade parts".

Chosen need a box.

Cultists need a proper box, enough of the mono poses.

Oblits\Mutilators are definitely easy multi-box options.

A decent multi-pose lord kit, not just for a terminator lord.

Havocs definitely need a rethink...honestly, I would do them how other cults are done currently. Buy standard space marines, purchase Havoc Upgrade, get sprues that give you 4 of each heavy weapon option. Expensive, but at least you'd get what you want.

I'd kill for a Havoc set that gives us:
2x each of the special weapons (Flamer, Meltagun, Plasma gun)
2x Lascannon
2x Autocannon
2x Heavy bolter
1x Missile launcher
And then throw in the current 'upgrade' sprue that comes in the CSM kit.


Two of those and you've got yourself a solid Havoc squad + a bunch of added specials for building a unit of Chosen.

No, we need more missile launchers, not autocannons.

Sisters, so many times over. Multi part BSS, and a Ret squad box, then maybe a command box a la the SM version

I'd say Sisters for sure.

After that, it'd be nice to see some new kits/updated rules (as they seem to be doing for Zoanthropes/Venomthropes) for some Chaos Space Marine units. Chosen for one, a drop pod equivalent or deep-strike option of some sort would be helpful, as would some more FW-style Daemon Engines.

It'd be cool to see some new Warp Spiders and Eldar Jetbike models that aren't from 1996 too

But how many people believe that GW will actually update the sisters? I used to think so but now I doubt it.

 MWHistorian wrote:
But how many people believe that GW will actually update the sisters? I used to think so but now I doubt it.

One has to wonder if they have the player-base to make it worthwhile for them....I imagine they would have done something for them in the last decade if they thought it would make them money.

do you really have to ask....? Sister's of course

 jasper76 wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
But how many people believe that GW will actually update the sisters? I used to think so but now I doubt it.

One has to wonder if they have the player-base to make it worthwhile for them....I imagine they would have done something for them in the last decade if they thought it would make them money.

Oh, no. There's the beginning of the circular argument.

There's not player base for SOB, so GW don't make them!
Because GW don't make them, there's no player base!

And so on and so on. Look, I say give them a DE style re-release and see if they sell. Outdated, blocky and super expensive models aren't going to win a lot of customers. Make them cheaper, in plastic and with options and you'll see them sell. At least more than the Scions did.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Mine. Because it would be the first new model release for the eleven years I have played the army.
For reference :
- It took three years for the Manhattan project to create an atom bomb
- It took seven years between when Grumman Aircraft was chosen to design the Apollo Lunar Module and when said Lunar Module landed on the moon.
- It took two years to build the Eiffel Tower, or the Empire State Building

I laughed way to hard at this one that everyone at work was looking at me weirdly.

sisters 100%

 MWHistorian wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
But how many people believe that GW will actually update the sisters? I used to think so but now I doubt it.

One has to wonder if they have the player-base to make it worthwhile for them....I imagine they would have done something for them in the last decade if they thought it would make them money.

Oh, no. There's the beginning of the circular argument.

There's not player base for SOB, so GW don't make them!
Because GW don't make them, there's no player base!

And so on and so on. Look, I say give them a DE style re-release and see if they sell. Outdated, blocky and super expensive models aren't going to win a lot of customers. Make them cheaper, in plastic and with options and you'll see them sell. At least more than the Scions did.

I hear you ref circular argument. However it may be possible that "battle nuns" just don't have much appeal in the market as a concept.....I personally think they're super cool, I'm just saying...

Dark Eldar. Give us our characters back!

Other than sisters

GK-Just want to see a new model, don't care if it's good or bad

Inquisition- As much as I love making my own models, it can get expensive when you kit-bash an enitre Inquisition army

"Deserve"?

Sisters of Battle.
Hands down.

What would I like to see?

A plastic Guard Veteran kit, with Grenadier Veterans that allow me to build up even more Kasrkin.

My vote goes to the Sisters of Battle.

First off start converting to models to plastic, and reduce the price to something that I can at least pretend is affordable (as currently standard squad of Battle Sisters cost $80...)

Then add a bunch more units. Personally I feel that the Sisters of Battle army has the potential for a much wider variety of legitimately cool units.

-Praise The Emperor-

Deserve's got nothin' to do with it

I'd like to see, in no specific order:
A new Chaos Marine box. The current one is atrocious. I bought a bunch of them thinking I'd make some Tall Scale adversaries for my Spess Mahreens. Nope. I made one, and I realized how ugly the kit is. Including those awful belt-fed bolters.

New plastic IGuard. Again, the current models are atrocious. Thick and blocky with terrible proportions, even for heroic scale. I'd love to do some IGuard conversions, but not with those models.

Plastic Aspect Warriors. Jebus, these are way overdue. Seems like with Eldar being a current Flavor of the Month, the time is right too.

Sisters of Battle. Lots of fun conversion possibility. That said...

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Mine. Because it would be the first new model release for the eleven years I have played the army.
For reference :
- It took three years for the Manhattan project to create an atom bomb
- It took seven years between when Grumman Aircraft was chosen to design the Apollo Lunar Module and when said Lunar Module landed on the moon.
- It took two years to build the Eiffel Tower, or the Empire State Building

Well, to be fair, people wanted to build all those things.

It's been fairly clear for a while that Games Workshop has almost no interest in expanding the Sisters of Battle line.

 MWHistorian wrote:

 Accolade wrote:
Ehh, I think Sisters of Battle still have everyone beat.

I'm assuming the reason not everyone is agreeing with that is because they simply don't see GW doing the release no matter what.

At this point we could probably do a fundraiser, get the money for the machinery for GW, work out the designs, kidnap their children and blackmail them and they'd still not do a SOB release. It's past the point of comical. Either kill the line or do something with it. Even purgatory has an end.

Why? They're doing the right thing. They continue to release rules so that your models aren't completely invalidated.

The other option is that they don't continue to make rules, and your army is now worthless.

MWHistorian wrote:
And so on and so on. Look, I say give them a DE style re-release and see if they sell.

Easy to say when it's not your capital being invested in that release, lol.


And since we're in fantasy land with new Sisters, I'll add Squats and Zoats to the list too, lol.

 Cothonian wrote:
My vote goes to the Sisters of Battle.

First off start converting to models to plastic, and reduce the price to something that I can at least pretend is affordable (as currently standard squad of Battle Sisters cost $80...)

Then add a bunch more units. Personally I feel that the Sisters of Battle army has the potential for a much wider variety of legitimately cool units.

-Praise The Emperor-

Ha I laugh at that here in Australia 3 sisters alone are $30AUD so to even get a decent sized squad you're looking at nearly $100 little lone the special weapon models that are $20AUD each

 MWHistorian wrote:
But GW won't because they can't be bothered.

Can't be bothered / They know they won't sell as well as other armies. Sisters may be popular on these forums but that doesn't mean they're popular. Sisters were new once and it was at a time when GWS was doing a lot better (middle of the LOTR craze), they didn't sell well then and they probably wouldn't sell well now.

They were never at any point acessible other than the times everything was metal.
And the "all metal" ages were long, long ago-when the community was very different.

Sisters are easily one of the more desired armies. I suspect a real release will sell better than the 6th edition tau one (who took them completely by surprise as everything sold out quickly)

 Zande4 wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
But GW won't because they can't be bothered.

Can't be bothered / They know they won't sell as well as other armies. Sisters may be popular on these forums but that doesn't mean they're popular. Sisters were new once and it was at a time when GWS was doing a lot better (middle of the LOTR craze), they didn't sell well then and they probably wouldn't sell well now.

"Know" is a strong word. DE didn't sell until they got re-released.
They did the scions and Taurox, I think they could do some plastic sisters.

So many good choices. Of course the most obvious one is Sisters of Battle. No one can really argue that, but since they're basically not a part of the update cycle anymore I'm going with:

CHAOS SPACE MARINES

They need a larger and more comprehensive CSM kit, a MUCH more comprehensive Terminator kit, they need a cultists box that can be bought separately from Dark Vengence with more options (ala the Helbrute release) and not to mention plastic Thousand Sons, plastic Noise Marines, plastic Plague Marines, plastic Dark Apostle, plastic Havocs!! God-specific Chaos Lords would be nice to see again. God-specific Sorcerers as well. And how could I forget the fact that the codex clearly states that Sorcerers of Tzeentch can ride Discs while Chaos Lords of Khorne can ride Juggernauts, and don't forget to update the models of Ahriman, Abbadon, Kharn and Lucious!

This is part of why I hated the 6E CSM update. The entire model range is in desperate need of an update, the models really haven't aged well. Instead we got a wave of uninspired new units for undivided armies that they put on the front page while all of the older models get thrown into the backdrop. They put makeup on a pig and called it a day! The model range doesn't just need an update, IT NEEDS SURGERY. It's going to be a long and quiet road until we see all of the units given the treatment they deserve.


IG and Chaos Daemons follow as closer seconds, IG has more of an infantry crisis than anything.

There is nothing wrong with the CSM base kit and the CSM termi kit. they both serve their purpose, and got pleny of bitz to customize with. expecially when you can chaosify every loyalist marine (be its codex, DA, BA, SW or GK) with ease with some spare bits, making their options actually the widest selection around, and with a bit of work and ingenuity you can have a wide verity of CSM styles.
Looking at basic marines-say you need 20, you can get two boxs of CSM, or a box of CSM and a box of codex marines or grey hunters, and mix the two up to get a wide pool of unique looking guys.
40 guys? get two CSM boxes, a codex box and a GH box-and mix around.
Furthermore, you can get DA veterans/GKSS/death company for your awesome looking team leaders (once a few chaos bitz off the CSM box are added) later on (or right on the start)

Cultists are something worth having, and there is the 5-model clamp-pack, not a great thing, but an existing thing.
And yet again, they are the core of "make your own dudes" type of models, given how much of a mishmash they are. here is a short list of GW products you can use to make your own cool cultists:
IG squads (all the variety of), wytches (some work required), empire militia (best there is), flagellant warband (for a bit more crazy style), epire gunners (for shooty cultists), chaos marauders, even beastman units if you want to get a bit crazy. tahn you got the whole FW renegades range.
Cultists should be kitbashed and built off random stuff, not have a single unified kit-it beats the purpose!
And when you need large numbers, you get several DIFFERENT kits, so you can create a mishmash of them, further diversifying your troopers.


1k sons and noise marines got upgrae packs, not perfect-but its something. and the packs are decent enough.
Plague marines got the finecasts, again not perfect-but something.
All of can be also converted with relative ease with bitz in the base CSM box, though it will require getting your hands on some more of the god-spesific bitz.

Apostle is an HQ, it really does not matter if finecast or platic given how static they tend to be even when in plastic. he is fine.
And you can make your own out of chaplins, SM "masters" (personally love the master of marches, rites also good for this)

Havoks are basic CSM with more specials/heavies. you don't need a havok kit, you need a guns kit. because that's what the havok kit will be, five marines and absurdly too many guns. even if a real havok kit existed, you would probably be better off just getting more gun bits taken from spares of other kits and making your own with a CSM kit.


Honestly, chaos is even bigger than orks when it comes to conversions and making your own. heck, its practically "Codex:conversions".
CSM is the LAST thing in need of a update, as anything you might be missing-can be easily made by "corrupting" space marines. and you got tons of choices for that.

Sisters. What else?

I just hope that they DONT update CSM. The new look where traitors have sausages wrapped around them... what was GW thinking?

 BoomWolf wrote:
There is nothing wrong with the CSM base kit and the CSM termi kit. they both serve their purpose, and got pleny of bitz to customize with. expecially when you can chaosify every loyalist marine (be its codex, DA, BA, SW or GK) with ease with some spare bits, making their options actually the widest selection around, and with a bit of work and ingenuity you can have a wide verity of CSM styles.

Cultists are something worth having, and there is the 5-model clamp-pack, not a great thing, but an existing thing.
And yet again, they are the core of "make your own dudes" type of models, given how much of a mishmash they are. here is a short list of GW products you can use to make your own cool cultists:
IG squads (all the variety of), wytches (some work required), empire militia (best there is), flagellant warband (for a bit more crazy style), epire gunners (for shooty cultists), chaos marauders, even beastman units if you want to get a bit crazy. tahn you got the whole FW renegades range.
Cultists should be kitbashed and built off random stuff, not have a single unified kit-it beats the purpose!

1k sons and noise marines got upgrae packs, not perfect-but its something. and the packs are decent enough.
Plague marines got the finecasts, again not perfect-but something.
All of can be also converted with relative ease with bitz in the base CSM box, though it will require getting your hands on some more of the god-spesific bitz.

Apostle is an HQ, it really does not matter if finecast or platic given how static they tend to be even when in plastic. he is fine.
And you can make your own out of chaplins, SM "masters" (personally love the master of marches, rites also good for this)

Havoks are basic CSM with more specials/heavies. you don't need a havok kit, you need a guns kit. because that's what the havok kit will be, five marines and absurdly too many guns. even if a real havok kit existed, you would probably be better off just getting more gun bits taken from spares of other kits and making your own with a CSM kit.


Honestly, chaos is even bigger than orks when it comes to conversions and making your own. heck, its Codex:conversions.
CSM is the LAST thing in need of a update, as anything you might be missing-can be easily made by "corrupting" space marines. and you got tons of choices for that.

"You don't need a havoc kit, you just need guns." In other words, a new havoc kit.
"1k sons and noise marines got upgrade packs ... the packs are decent enough." The Noise Marine pack is what you would call "decent enough". Because it doesn't do anything wrong. The 1k sons upgrade pack is not "decent enough" because when you actually convert the plastic CSM with that kit what you get are dynamically-posed, alive-looking rubric marines. I don't think you spend a lot of time reading chaos fluff because they're actually very mechanical and more importantly unified in thought and action. They have no will beyond their sorcerer's. So that rubric marine that looks ready to roll for cover doesn't look right, nor does the "I have something in my sights" rubric marine, nor do almost all of them if you actually give a shirt about it. In fact it's for this reason why the Thousand Sons, out of all of the cult units, deserve to have a plastic kit the most.

And by the way, your argument of kit bashing may work with the CSM kit, but much less so the Terminator kit. For starters, they suffer from the lack of guns issue the havoc box has. Secondly, they only fit in with certain armies aesthetically. For example, I *think* the Thousand Sons have rubric terminators. The issue has never been brought up but it stands to reason a few of them exist. And surely they'd look as distinct from other CSM as the Rubric Marines themselves look. Also, thanks to Forgeworld I don't need to bring up the fact that they're not Nurgley or Khorne-y enough, but that still leaves Slaaneshi terminators. I don't think those big tusks fit the Slaaneshi aesthetic, and without even having to explain why I think most people will agree with me.

Also, as smoothly as some people manage to convert khorne lords on juggernauts, there's still no way around those fantasy legs. It might not be a big deal to you, but how would you like for your space marine captain to be wearing pants and boots?

And it's hard to convert a sorcerer to be god-specific when he's just a collage of stars of chaos. Painting him a different color doesn't magically cover up all those stars of chaos undivided.

Sisters need the next model wave.

 MWHistorian wrote:

 Zande4 wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
But GW won't because they can't be bothered.

Can't be bothered / They know they won't sell as well as other armies. Sisters may be popular on these forums but that doesn't mean they're popular. Sisters were new once and it was at a time when GWS was doing a lot better (middle of the LOTR craze), they didn't sell well then and they probably wouldn't sell well now.

"Know" is a strong word. DE didn't sell until they got re-released.
They did the scions and Taurox, I think they could do some plastic sisters.

The difference between DE and SoB is that DE sold when they were first released back in 2nd, Sisters did not when they were released back in 3rd. Admittedly if they made new Sisters kits they would probably look pretty good and wouldn't do too bad, but just not as well as some of the more popular ones.

 MWHistorian wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
But how many people believe that GW will actually update the sisters? I used to think so but now I doubt it.

One has to wonder if they have the player-base to make it worthwhile for them....I imagine they would have done something for them in the last decade if they thought it would make them money.

Oh, no. There's the beginning of the circular argument.

There's not player base for SOB, so GW don't make them!
Because GW don't make them, there's no player base!

And so on and so on. Look, I say give them a DE style re-release and see if they sell. Outdated, blocky and super expensive models aren't going to win a lot of customers. Make them cheaper, in plastic and with options and you'll see them sell. At least more than the Scions did.

GW? ARE YOU LISTENING? IF YOU MAKE PLASTIC SISTERS, I WILL BECOME A SISTER PLAYER!

 captain bloody fists wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Mine. Because it would be the first new model release for the eleven years I have played the army.
For reference :
- It took three years for the Manhattan project to create an atom bomb
- It took seven years between when Grumman Aircraft was chosen to design the Apollo Lunar Module and when said Lunar Module landed on the moon.
- It took two years to build the Eiffel Tower, or the Empire State Building

I laughed way to hard at this one that everyone at work was looking at me weirdly.

Sorry .
I just gathered a few facts from Wikipedia, but I am sure I could have a long and impressive list of incredible things that were made in less than 11 years.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
Well, to be fair, people wanted to build all those things.

It's been fairly clear for a while that Games Workshop has almost no interest in expanding the Sisters of Battle line.

That is what I would say too, but some very optimistic Sisters players are positive that GW actually wanted to do them the whole time, but could not because of hairs and robes (and those problems are solved now, and we should see Sisters coming out any minute, and all that…).

My GKs would like Mordrak, ghost knights, Thawn and the real purgation squad back please :(

 Quarterdime wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
There is nothing wrong with the CSM base kit and the CSM termi kit. they both serve their purpose, and got pleny of bitz to customize with. expecially when you can chaosify every loyalist marine (be its codex, DA, BA, SW or GK) with ease with some spare bits, making their options actually the widest selection around, and with a bit of work and ingenuity you can have a wide verity of CSM styles.

Cultists are something worth having, and there is the 5-model clamp-pack, not a great thing, but an existing thing.
And yet again, they are the core of "make your own dudes" type of models, given how much of a mishmash they are. here is a short list of GW products you can use to make your own cool cultists:
IG squads (all the variety of), wytches (some work required), empire militia (best there is), flagellant warband (for a bit more crazy style), epire gunners (for shooty cultists), chaos marauders, even beastman units if you want to get a bit crazy. tahn you got the whole FW renegades range.
Cultists should be kitbashed and built off random stuff, not have a single unified kit-it beats the purpose!

1k sons and noise marines got upgrae packs, not perfect-but its something. and the packs are decent enough.
Plague marines got the finecasts, again not perfect-but something.
All of can be also converted with relative ease with bitz in the base CSM box, though it will require getting your hands on some more of the god-spesific bitz.

Apostle is an HQ, it really does not matter if finecast or platic given how static they tend to be even when in plastic. he is fine.
And you can make your own out of chaplins, SM "masters" (personally love the master of marches, rites also good for this)


Havoks are basic CSM with more specials/heavies. you don't need a havok kit, you need a guns kit. because that's what the havok kit will be, five marines and absurdly too many guns. even if a real havok kit existed, you would probably be better off just getting more gun bits taken from spares of other kits and making your own with a CSM kit.


Honestly, chaos is even bigger than orks when it comes to conversions and making your own. heck, its Codex:conversions.
CSM is the LAST thing in need of a update, as anything you might be missing-can be easily made by "corrupting" space marines. and you got tons of choices for that.

"You don't need a havoc kit, you just need guns." In other words, a new havoc kit.
"1k sons and noise marines got upgrade packs ... the packs are decent enough." The Noise Marine pack is what you would call "decent enough". Because it doesn't do anything wrong. The 1k sons upgrade pack is not "decent enough" because when you actually convert the plastic CSM with that kit what you get are dynamically-posed, alive-looking rubric marines. I don't think you spend a lot of time reading chaos fluff because they're actually very mechanical and more importantly unified in thought and action. They have no will beyond their sorcerer's. So that rubric marine that looks ready to roll for cover doesn't look right, nor does the "I have something in my sights" rubric marine, nor do almost all of them if you actually give a shirt about it. In fact it's for this reason why the Thousand Sons, out of all of the cult units, deserve to have a plastic kit the most.

And by the way, your argument of kit bashing may work with the CSM kit, but much less so the Terminator kit. For starters, they suffer from the lack of guns issue the havoc box has. Secondly, they only fit in with certain armies aesthetically. For example, I *think* the Thousand Sons have rubric terminators. The issue has never been brought up but it stands to reason a few of them exist. And surely they'd look as distinct from other CSM as the Rubric Marines themselves look. Also, thanks to Forgeworld I don't need to bring up the fact that they're not Nurgley or Khorne-y enough, but that still leaves Slaaneshi terminators. I don't think those big tusks fit the Slaaneshi aesthetic, and without even having to explain why I think most people will agree with me.

Also, as smoothly as some people manage to convert khorne lords on juggernauts, there's still no way around those fantasy legs. It might not be a big deal to you, but how would you like for your space marine captain to be wearing pants and boots?

And it's hard to convert a sorcerer to be god-specific when he's just a collage of stars of chaos. Painting him a different color doesn't magically cover up all those stars of chaos undivided.

No, you don't need a new havok kit. you got the dev kit-is THAT any good? because that's how it will be, but worse. as loyalists got 5 gun choices, and CSM has 7.
CSM havocs go SO many weapon options, that having 4 of each will result in a massively bloated kit. even 2 of each like devs will be a bloated kit. scavanging off other kits is really better.
And come to worst, you can always get devs and chaos them up if oyu want to. as stated, its almost like an assumed method of operations in chaos.
If you just need more weapons, you can get plasmas and meltas as stand-alones. heavy weapons are a bit harder to get, but are bound to be lying around in masses in the hands of fellow players. after all you get a few spare ones in every kit (you cant possibly use them all after all)

Rubrics-if what you want is a static team of single-pose models in than you can get them in snap-fits. just chop off the heads and insert the upgrade kit ones. 3 sets of snap-fits and an upgrade kit is a 10-man squad. (9+sorcerer), even cheaper than getting it done with a standard box too. though far less bitz will be lying around after, and using the chests will require some work.
Honestly wanting to dumb down appearance is one of the oddest things I've heard, even rubrics, being mindless automations and all, walk around and take aim. and using the standard kit you can pose their guns and head n boring "all eyes forward, all guns sideways" poses if you want, getting the results of a mindless automation group. heck you can do it with loyalists too and get the same results, though I'd reccomend using the chaos kit to get more parts for chaos conversions.

As for the termie kit, rubric termies as a unit, does not exist in the game, and never had. its not a new kit-its a whole new model. just like there is theoretically plague marine termies, beserker termies and noise marine termies.
But that's not what the unit is, so its rational the kit does not build these.
The lack of guns they suffer from is again a necessity, you CANT have x5 of each combi and x5 of each power weapon in a kit, its absurd. you got a few of each, and enough to set up A team without converting/modfing/trading anything, but getting the specifics you want would probably require to do so. and its alright.
Yes, GK and SW termies got a better weapon selection, and the style is not for everyone but the things that are missing can be easily leeched off other chaos kits or converted, and other styles can be acquired by chaosifying codex, SW, DA or GK terminators. again leading us to the "convert your own as you wish, the kit is just a base" situation.
Once again, chaos reigns supreme in having the most stylistic options, you just need to wor a little for those beond the most simple ones.

Using forgeworld to show "better khorne" and "better nurgle" marines is silly, as its an option you can get! these are liturally kits for khorne marines and plague marines if the GW ones are not to your taste.
Sure these conversion kits on top of the base will cost alot, but you CANT have that many kits around. the base kits are just that-BASE. in an army designed to be converted they also got a number of unique kits of their own that easily competes with any of the armies that has no such option.

As for juggerlords-its entirely possibly to have CSM legs on it, its just easier to use the fantasy one so most does that.

And sorcerers can be god spesific WITH chaos stars. there is no rule that marked dudes don't have chaos stars as well, the stars represent chaos in general, not undivided specifically-and odds are they didn't start out as dedicated to one god, but began going chaos first, and dedicated themselves later.
And even if there was a rule, its chaos-who cares about rules?



EDIT:
Damn, just listing all these conversion options makes me wish I went with CSM instead of tau.
I got nothing to work with there :\ only kroot has room for serious conversions, and I hate kroot.

They don't have to look deactivated, they just need to all be doing the same thing. I'd like to refer you to Forgeworld's Death Korps of Krieg infantry, where you actually have a selection of 3 different infantry styles: Running, Firing, and Idle. All I'm asking for for any Thousand Sons kit is one unified action. I think that idle would be the most convenient all things considered but that's reeeally getting into personal preference. You got me good on the terminators part, but you're still writing off the thousand sons, the juggerlord, and of course I forgot to affirm the special character models. The only ones that actually look like they still match the current standard are Huron Blackheart, Fabius Bile, and maybe Typhus if he scales with current terminators. Also, I didn't bring this up earlier for the sake of focusing on the thousand sons, but the Khorne Berserkers, even though they're in plastic, still look like crap. They're in that boat with the Catachans, which is why I put IG in for second place. That and the fact that they haven't given any plastic kits to any guardsmen aside from cadians and catachans. And I think the reason why that is is because they're competing units and they're too corporate now to actually provide that kind of service at their own expense. But I digress.

While you haven't really convinced me that CSM shouldn't be the first (Sisters don't count) army to be focused on right now, you have managed to burn down my argument to what's wanted vs. what's needed. So here's what's needed.

The list of things that can't be beaten with conversions and have no forgeworld alternatives:

-Thousand Sons (see above)
-Juggerlords (The fact that almost everyone who has thus far attempted the conversion made the decision to leave the fantasy legs intact is all the evidence needed to show that it's not worth it)
-The named characters (see above)

I actually like the berserkers look. the GW painting of them is terribad, but the models themselves are decent enough.

And as said, doing "monopose" for the 1k sons is as easy as it gets, you just take the same bits over and over again, but it will look horrible on the tabletop. and its easy to do with existing kits if you actually want to.
They are not as monotone as you suggest. they all follow a single directive, but do not all take the exact same pose, as the are a bit different, by the mere fact they stand in different places.
They all shoot at the same target, they all go in the same direction, but they each got its own adjustments of HOW the job is done, to fit his slightly different conditions.
Uniform stance makes sense in a flat table, not in a warzone.


Named characthers, going one by one:
Abbadon-decent, and has a forgeworld variant too.
Typhos-great.
Ahriman-great.
Bile-great.
Huron-thats the one I'd remake first.
Lucius-creepy, but fits right in.
Kharn-pretty cool.

And the reason they stick with fantasy legs, is not only the fact its not an easy leg pose to make, its the fact its also nearly unnoticeable. power armor resembles knight armor to begin with, and a mere leg swap is not worth the trouble.


Really, more chaos figures will be nice, and eventually will come.
But can you compare this to the need of the sisters?
Or even if you ignore them, the needs of non-cadian IG?
The fact the tau empire that is a "coalition of races", has only 2 non-tau units? (one of wildly considered unplayable)
The DA who are basically SM-1 and require to get some new stuff, and patching of the old stuff (well, the need new rules more than new models)
Inqusition henchmen, who are 80% metal, 15% finecast and the acolytes non-existing?
Eldar with finecasts in all their aspect warriors>

I even referred to the Forgeworld DKoK models. Of course I don't want them all to be the exact same, I want them to be performing the same action, as opposed to some aiming, some looking to the right, some in motion, etc. Also, even though your opinion is that they're fine, in terms of proportions they are in the style of the original GW minis, which are even less realistic than the current ones. There is an objective difference here.

And I notice the legs. I bet the people who own those conversions notice the legs, too.

If you want them all to do the same action, pose the base CSM kit in the same action.
Honestly its not even hard, or require anything special. the legs will stand slightly different, but "sideways gun" is the most common pose as it is, just DONT pose some as aiming/looking sideways/whatever.

Necrons. Because Necrons.

ELdar Jetbikes and regular soldiers (Guardians?)

That Ork vehicle that's been around since Gorka Morka

Abaddon, CSM squads, multi-part plastic Chosen and Cultists.

Sisters of Battle of course (I will start an army if you make them plastic, GW!)

Some Inquisition models in plastic would be neat.

Plastic Greater Daemons.

Vect and Mordrak

Zande4 wrote:
The difference between DE and SoB is that DE sold when they were first released back in 2nd, Sisters did not when they were released back in 3rd. Admittedly if they made new Sisters kits they would probably look pretty good and wouldn't do too bad, but just not as well as some of the more popular ones.

Um, what?

Sisters were released towards the end of 1997. They didn't sell well because shops were badly stocked with them, and the Necrons were released five months later. Dark Eldar didn't come out until five months after that when third dropped.

Pariahs. Give me back my sons!




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Mine. Because it would be the first new model release for the eleven years I have played the army.
For reference :
- It took three years for the Manhattan project to create an atom bomb
- It took seven years between when Grumman Aircraft was chosen to design the Apollo Lunar Module and when said Lunar Module landed on the moon.
- It took two years to build the Eiffel Tower, or the Empire State Building

Modelling plastic hair is super hard tho.
Srsly

I would love to see Dark Eldar get another wave of minis, with a new plastic Vect and plastic Incubi. It is really a shame that they didn't make a new model for Vect.

Sisters need to be done in plastic.

Chaos Space Marines could certainly use a few new models as well. Same with Dark Angels. They need a rules refresh more though.

Well, going off the fact that I don't see Sisters being updated under even optimal circumstances, I'm going to have to go with Eldar in terms of updating the old jetbikes, Vypers, Warpspiders, guardian squads.

Them or Orks, whom GW seemed to think it was more important to make a stompy robot rather than to update models from 2nd-3rd edition (deffkoptas, warbuggies, and wartrakks).

Maybe after we get all of these ancient kits resolved, we can start talking about the poor thousand-and-one variations of power armor guys.

 BoomWolf wrote:
There is nothing wrong with the CSM base kit

Stopped reading here.

That's madness. If this were Sparta, you'd have been kicked into a hole.

The existing Chaos Marines kit is perhaps one of the worst plastic troops kits in 40K. Really only rivaled by the Catachans and Cadians.

I think we can all agree that it's space marines who need more models. I mean, with such little attention given to them over the last couple of years, all the other armies are becoming so overpowered and way more viable

what annoys me at the moment about the sisters is that a few of the models you can't even get off GW because they've stopped making them.

GK. This darn alpha-strike list time and again makes them the most boring army to play with and against. Just cause it's always the same.

Necrons need new models!!!!!

Eldar aspect warriors and jetbikes plastic update.

New DA models or even some SM toys (like a TF Cannon or a Stormraven, please?!?!). That being said, I would love to see some new CSM models, they always make me smile.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
There is nothing wrong with the CSM base kit

Stopped reading here.

That's madness. If this were Sparta, you'd have been kicked into a hole.

The existing Chaos Marines kit is perhaps one of the worst plastic troops kits in 40K. Really only rivaled by the Catachans and Cadians.

Had you NOT stopped reading, you would see the reasonig I gave WHY there is nothing wrong with that kit.

Honestly, nobody ever gave me a solid reason to why CSM kit is bad that is not solved by simple conversion (usually without even requring extra bitz, but entirely posible from within the kit itself with minor adgusments)

When people want a CSM kit that can, on its own, represent every single chaos force out there without the need of the tiniest conversion, naturally no kit will serve them. CSM are a conversion army by its nature, its literally space marines that switched sides.
The kit is meant to do one thing-serve as a base for generic chaos forces and serve as a conversion base for specialisted chaos forces. it does both jobs successfully.
I won't claim its the BEST possible CSM kit, and there is room for upgrades, but with all honesty there are plenty of armies in far more dire needs than CSM there. some armies does not even HAVE kits, let alone the ability to convert out of 5 different armies with ease.

There is no chaos force you want to represent on the table that cannot be done with existing kits, you just need to get some loyalists too from time to time for conversions, or go to forgeworld models for the more specific things.

UPDATE. EVERYTHING.

 The Wise Dane wrote:
UPDATE. EVERYTHING.

This.

Lol

CSM needs a desperate revamp.

It baffles me that some of their models are not MC.

I don't play CSM but I've played against enough to see theyre kinda gimped.

I know IA 13 just came out but they need more.

Mauler fiend and Forge fiend should be MC. If a dreadknight can be one why can't these two models.

Their only Air fast attack, the Heldrake is now borderline broken. Only worth it with a baleflamer. I think it would help out if it was a MC or at least a 90 degree arc of fire if you're going great to limit it to a firing arc. Personally should be 360
May sound crazy but give free upgrade to CSMs for their marks. Might help balance them a little.
Berserker's need some help. Korne armies are wanting to Co e back.

I think invisibility needs to be nerfed, I depend too much on Tigirius and a 6 strong gravturian squad. Lol

I think Vanguard Vets need help. If you're going to keep them in the same points bracket. Give them 2 wounds. I can't think of anyone that plays them. They're so over priced.

I think Terminators need help too. Give them an upgrade where I can purchase a second wound. Also give me an incentive to fielding more of them if they are going great to keep 1 wound. Kinda like how 30k is. The more I purchase the cheaper the squad is.

Tau- not broken at all. Still a very effective army

Eldar- if anything nerf their wave serpents

Orks- get rid of the stupid mob rule table. Ridiculous. You kill yourself more than the opponent does. Give more options for fearless.
Orks are supposed to be resilient. Either give them all FnP or up them to 5 T base.
They're supposed to be strong and swing wildly. I don't like their weak initiative. Give us some kind of an initiative boost. Maybe on the charge.
CC is so bad in this game. Something as to be done to Orks.

Dark Angels- can someone explain why they have their own codex?

 BoomWolf wrote:

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
There is nothing wrong with the CSM base kit

Stopped reading here.

That's madness. If this were Sparta, you'd have been kicked into a hole.

The existing Chaos Marines kit is perhaps one of the worst plastic troops kits in 40K. Really only rivaled by the Catachans and Cadians.

Had you NOT stopped reading, you would see the reasonig I gave WHY there is nothing wrong with that kit.

Honestly, nobody ever gave me a solid reason to why CSM kit is bad that is not solved by simple conversion (usually without even requring extra bitz, but entirely posible from within the kit itself with minor adgusments)

When people want a CSM kit that can, on its own, represent every single chaos force out there without the need of the tiniest conversion, naturally no kit will serve them. CSM are a conversion army by its nature, its literally space marines that switched sides.
The kit is meant to do one thing-serve as a base for generic chaos forces and serve as a conversion base for specialisted chaos forces. it does both jobs successfully.
I won't claim its the BEST possible CSM kit, and there is room for upgrades, but with all honesty there are plenty of armies in far more dire needs than CSM there. some armies does not even HAVE kits, let alone the ability to convert out of 5 different armies with ease.

There is no chaos force you want to represent on the table that cannot be done with existing kits, you just need to get some loyalists too from time to time for conversions, or go to forgeworld models for the more specific things.

Do you have any idea what a pain in the ass it is to convert CSM legs into anything that isn't a standing position? Because y'know, THEY'RE ALL IN ONE POSITION!? In order for the legs to be remotely unique, I would either have to greenstuff them entirely or buy a $30 kit just for the legs.

Johnnytorrance wrote:

Dark Angels- can someone explain why they have their own codex?

That's why.

If it hasn't been mentioned yet:

Squats.

If they have been mentioned already:

Squats. And Squat Sisters.

The Sisters. Even the Pope would play them! And with all the psychers spewing out into the galaxy, we need them. Then my Witch Hunter models could come out of their box.
Being Brits, maybe it has something to do with Henry VIII and the Church of England...

 Wyzilla wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
There is nothing wrong with the CSM base kit

Stopped reading here.

That's madness. If this were Sparta, you'd have been kicked into a hole.

The existing Chaos Marines kit is perhaps one of the worst plastic troops kits in 40K. Really only rivaled by the Catachans and Cadians.

Had you NOT stopped reading, you would see the reasonig I gave WHY there is nothing wrong with that kit.

Honestly, nobody ever gave me a solid reason to why CSM kit is bad that is not solved by simple conversion (usually without even requring extra bitz, but entirely posible from within the kit itself with minor adgusments)

When people want a CSM kit that can, on its own, represent every single chaos force out there without the need of the tiniest conversion, naturally no kit will serve them. CSM are a conversion army by its nature, its literally space marines that switched sides.
The kit is meant to do one thing-serve as a base for generic chaos forces and serve as a conversion base for specialisted chaos forces. it does both jobs successfully.
I won't claim its the BEST possible CSM kit, and there is room for upgrades, but with all honesty there are plenty of armies in far more dire needs than CSM there. some armies does not even HAVE kits, let alone the ability to convert out of 5 different armies with ease.

There is no chaos force you want to represent on the table that cannot be done with existing kits, you just need to get some loyalists too from time to time for conversions, or go to forgeworld models for the more specific things.

Do you have any idea what a pain in the ass it is to convert CSM legs into anything that isn't a standing position? Because y'know, THEY'RE ALL IN ONE POSITION!? In order for the legs to be remotely unique, I would either have to greenstuff them entirely or buy a $30 kit just for the legs.

How is it any different for other marines?
Or eldar guardians? dire avangers? all aspect warriors? necron warriors? kabalites? bloodletters? plaguebearers?

The CSM kit is imprefect, yes, we get it.
Get over it. there are alot of codcies who are FAR worse when it come to models, and deserve to be remade before CSM.
Heck, not everyone even have plastic models AT ALL.


Can you remake CSM better? yes, alot better.
Is the the FIRST priority? not at all, the CSM are imperfect, but not inherently flawed.

 ciaotym wrote:
The Sisters. Even the Pope would play them! And with all the psychers spewing out into the galaxy, we need them. Then my Witch Hunter models could come out of their box.
Being Brits, maybe it has something to do with Henry VIII and the Church of England...

lol indeed

Orks, Daemons, and Eldar, and CSM have the largest selection of units that need shifted over to plastic from resin/metal:
This is not counting special characters or HQ models with at least 1 wargear option or limited ed model in plastic.
Orks:
Tankbustas
Kommandos
Deffkoptas
Normal Big Gunz
Buggy/Trakk
Wyrdboy

Daemons:
Bloodthirster
GUO
Keeper of Serets
Lord of Change
Khorne Hounds
Furies
Fiends of Slaanesh
Beasts of Nurgle

CSM:
Rubric Marines
Noise Marines
Plague Marines
Obliterators/Mutilators
Dark Apostle
Warpsmith

Eldar:
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Howling Banshees
Warp Spyders
Swooping Hawks
Shining Spears
Scorpions
Dark Reapers

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Orks, Daemons, and Eldar, and CSM have the largest selection of units that need shifted over to plastic from resin/metal:

Sisters of Battle:

Battle Sister Squad 10-pack (all metal)
Exorcist (mixed plastic/metal kit)
Sisters Repentia (all metal)
Penitent Engine (all metal)
Saint Celestine (all metal)
Battle Sister 3-pack (all metal)
Uriah Jacobus (all metal)
Canoness (all metal)
Battle Sister w/ Flamer (metal)
Battle Sister w/ Heavy Bolter (metal)
Battle Sister w/ Multi-Melta (metal)
Seraphim w/ Hand Flamers (metal)
Battle Sister w/ Blessed Banner (metal)
Mistress of Repentance (metal)
Battle Sister with Simulacrum Imperialis (metal)
Sisters of Battle Superior with Bolter (metal)
Sisters of Battle Superior with Power Sword and Bolter (metal)
Sisters of Battle Hospitaller (metal)
Sisters of Battle Seraphim (metal)
Missionary with Chainsword (metal) (to use for Priests or with =I= Warbands)
Sisters of Battle Dialogus (metal)
Battle Sister with Flamer v2 (metal)
Battle Sister with Storm Bolter v2 (metal)
Battle Sister with Meltagun v2 (metal)

.... you were saying? This *one Army* has nearly as many models as that entire list from *four* Armies.

Sisters of Battle, undeniably.

It's not even a fething contest, no army needs it more than Sisters; Sisters are still using models from the fething 90s as their basic infantry unit ffs.

Adepta Sororitas Hey I signed the petition

I'm curious as to how many 3rd party garage kit makers make some variant of "gothic armored battle nuns".

Sisters do need updated plastic kits or atleast a troop box but it seems like GW is content to skate em by with codex updates.

Otherwise as other people have said older vehicle kits and cult chaos space marines do need improvement.

Also a space marine one for fun (and probably most likely to happen ) are LOTD.

I'm curious as to how many 3rd party garage kit makers make some variant of "gothic armored battle nuns".

Not many. And those that do exist are... at least in my XP... not that great. I am waiting on RH's Sisters of Eternal Mercy, as they often do a mix of Sci-Fi and Fantasy with their series, but we're still years away from that being a thing, and may only be sufficient for Characters or small squads, depending.

... though I have ideas from RH's concept art so-far released.

 Psienesis wrote:

I'm curious as to how many 3rd party garage kit makers make some variant of "gothic armored battle nuns".

Not many. And those that do exist are... at least in my XP... not that great. I am waiting on RH's Sisters of Eternal Mercy, as they often do a mix of Sci-Fi and Fantasy with their series, but we're still years away from that being a thing, and may only be sufficient for Characters or small squads, depending.

... though I have ideas from RH's concept art so-far released.

Just checked the Sister models you mentioned... Oh so great quality, oh so much cheesecake... Why is it we can't have great female models without having them look like they've been through a stretcher torture device, inflated with botox and then put in skintight suits while being braught up to thrust their women-parts every-fething-where?...

Yes, RH tend to make overly sexual models, for no reason or logic at all.

There are WORSE out there mind you, but these are strict "pinup" types, RH try to be both serious and a pinup at once, and often it just looks absurd.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Yes, RH tend to make overly sexual models, for no reason or logic at all.

There are WORSE out there mind you, but these are strict "pinup" types, RH try to be both serious and a pinup at once, and often it just looks absurd.

Can't see the serious myself, frankly... But okay.

I do feel that many companies of several different media's are begining to learn from this... The new version of Malifaux has severely downplayed their anime-esque undertones and cheesecake (as befits a somewhat sober storyline that Malifaux tries to implement), though some remains (the Viktorias being a prime contestant)... I don't feel Warmahordes have ever had too many problems with it though, and 40K is mostly decent - Think of what they could've done with the formfitting suits the Eldar wear...

Of the armies that need new models or at least a supplement here is my list of top 5.

1: Sisters of Battle - No question here SoB could use more GW love. Not having a real book is pretty hurtful.
2. Grey Knights - Out of all the books GK's have the fewest variety of units.
3. Chaos Deamons - will will be an unpopular pick but by a ew of the "pure" lists such as Khorn need a little bit of help. Maybe some kind of shooting would help or a unit with an actual armor save. I find it hard to believe that there isn't some kind of deamon that can shurg off bolter rounds without having to relay on hell forged armor or his elusive invulnerable save.
4. Nids - Would be higher on the list but they have gotten a few models already. I know people are not impressed with them but at least it's something plus you have a drop pod now.
5 not sure if there really is a 5th. Putting more models in any other army might break the bank. The only places that could use more models that might fit is inquisition, or Imperial Knights other then forge world releases. But all those are meant to be allies so doubt that will ever happen.

Obviously we need more Space Marines.

1. Sisters of Battle: Does it even need to be explained?

2. Assassins/ Inquisition: Could use modern models, it's pretty self-explanatory.

3. IG: New sculpts of the infantry (Cadian, Catachan, Steel Legion, Vostroyan, Valhallan, etc.), as many are metal/finecast or just look terrible (the heads...)

The rest all require some work with their rosters, but not as much as the above (Ork warbuggies would be great, but I can't complain with the current Ork roster).

I'd like some new Kroot.

However it has to go to SoB really, failing that I'd like to see a new wave of updates for CSM (particularly troops).

Sisters is in the most need of some work by GW but a model wave isn't the right thing for them. A complete codex, updated models and maybe some new units is what they need.

I'd love new, smoother looking Crisis Suits for Tau, though there is nothing wrong with the Firewarrior kit that a sprue of Ion Rifles and Rail Rifles couldn't fix.

I'd say that what is needed most is blank filling for those codexes adversely affected by recent legal issues surrounding some models and characters. IG and DE seem to have had the worst of that, but I am sure there are others.

The Sisters, of course.

Though, failing a full-on wave, I'd settle for one of those smaller releases that they're sometimes doing, these days. IIRC Jes Goodwin said this could be a possibility were they to work on the SoB, a while ago.

Windchild wrote:
3. IG: New sculpts of the infantry (Cadian, Catachan, Steel Legion, Vostroyan, Valhallan, etc.), as many are metal/finecast or just look terrible (the heads...)

The IGuard will never see a range as wide as they did back in the day. While I agree the IGuard sorely need new plastics, they'll only be new Cadians (or maybe Catachans). The other ranges are dead. It costs a lot of money to produce and stock that many models for what is basically one army. That's a byproduct of the old days. Today's Games Workshop isn't going to do that.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

Windchild wrote:
3. IG: New sculpts of the infantry (Cadian, Catachan, Steel Legion, Vostroyan, Valhallan, etc.), as many are metal/finecast or just look terrible (the heads...)

The IGuard will never see a range as wide as they did back in the day. While I agree the IGuard sorely need new plastics, they'll only be new Cadians (or maybe Catachans). The other ranges are dead. It costs a lot of money to produce and stock that many models for what is basically one army. That's a byproduct of the old days. Today's Games Workshop isn't going to do that.

I know that it probably wont happen (even though I would collect IG if they had Vostroyans in new plastic)

Johnnytorrance wrote:
CSM needs a desperate revamp.

It baffles me that some of their models are not MC.

I don't play CSM but I've played against enough to see theyre kinda gimped.

I know IA 13 just came out but they need more.

Mauler fiend and Forge fiend should be MC. If a dreadknight can be one why can't these two models.

Their only Air fast attack, the Heldrake is now borderline broken. Only worth it with a baleflamer. I think it would help out if it was a MC or at least a 90 degree arc of fire if you're going great to limit it to a firing arc. Personally should be 360
May sound crazy but give free upgrade to CSMs for their marks. Might help balance them a little.
Berserker's need some help. Korne armies are wanting to Co e back.

I think invisibility needs to be nerfed, I depend too much on Tigirius and a 6 strong gravturian squad. Lol

I think Vanguard Vets need help. If you're going to keep them in the same points bracket. Give them 2 wounds. I can't think of anyone that plays them. They're so over priced.

I think Terminators need help too. Give them an upgrade where I can purchase a second wound. Also give me an incentive to fielding more of them if they are going great to keep 1 wound. Kinda like how 30k is. The more I purchase the cheaper the squad is.

Tau- not broken at all. Still a very effective army

Eldar- if anything nerf their wave serpents

Orks- get rid of the stupid mob rule table. Ridiculous. You kill yourself more than the opponent does. Give more options for fearless.
Orks are supposed to be resilient. Either give them all FnP or up them to 5 T base.
They're supposed to be strong and swing wildly. I don't like their weak initiative. Give us some kind of an initiative boost. Maybe on the charge.
CC is so bad in this game. Something as to be done to Orks.

Dark Angels- can someone explain why they have their own codex?

because unlike the actually stupid bt'd we have piles of unique models and flavors. However gw at every turn gimped us to make way for better books for other armies.

What the dark angels need more than anything is official access to sm formations like the astartes storm wing (currently it's only a technicality but you can do it). We also need a new named hq that doesn't suck and we also need a better relics table.

I think if gw was intelligent they would of included New datasheets in the dv da and csm kits. That's what I would of done, maybe toss a nice one seraphicus's way as a thank you to limited edition owners that makes the chaplains not a total joke.

The idea here is to diversify the toolset of the da's beyond "spam this wing and take their hq" as the only to even be remotely competitive like at all. That would be nice and would encourage lots of New players to actually buy those two kits rather than point and laugh as they see them on the shelf because their box art looks stupid.

I'm just waiting for a Space Marine Combiner

It seems to me there's a hole in the range, There aren't enough really big space marines.

Here me out here. We take space marines and we put them inside bigger space marines a la centurians, with me so far? Then we give those large space marines with regular space marines inside the ability to combine with 6 other large space marines with regular space marines into a gestalt figure that looks like.....wait for it...this is the brilliant part....a giant effing SPACE MARINE! Brilliant stuff, price it at £300 and give the design team the rest of the month off.

 vipoid wrote:
Well, SoB have certainly waited long enough. Failing that:

 Paradigm wrote:
IG. Give us back a handful of characters, our stolen artillery pieces and a new unit or two while you're at it!

This.

Also, could you maybe replace our infantry with sculpts that don't look like angry potatoes?

QFT. I don't play either and I sympathize.

We really need our new Greater Daemon models... It's a sad, sad day when those late 90's - 01 scrawnies are reduced to nipping at the ankles of a riptide or Wraithknight like some yappy little mutt, while the Bloodthirster could easily slot into the Dreadknight in place of the Termie pilot...

My LoC feels like a freaking midget as there's littler that's really "monstrous" about his size anymore. Instead we currently have Guppy Daemons instead of true Greater Daemons.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

The IGuard will never see a range as wide as they did back in the day. While I agree the IGuard sorely need new plastics, they'll only be new Cadians (or maybe Catachans). The other ranges are dead. It costs a lot of money to produce and stock that many models for what is basically one army. That's a byproduct of the old days. Today's Games Workshop isn't going to do that.

Well, I expect Cadians will be staying. But I'd like to request that if we can only have a couple of types of infantry, we drop Catchians and give one of the others a new range. Preferably Steel Legion, Vostroyans or Death Korps (I know FW do the latter, but it would be nice if they were available for less than 10 million pounds).

Anyway, those three just seem so much nicer in terms of models than the race of shirtless bobble-heads.


One other thing - could we maybe have a plastic power fist that doesn't look like the model is wearing a brick?

Something like this:


Or this:


Really, anything but this:


What *is* that? I don't think that thing could even form a fist.

I doubt it will happen considering we got Dark Vengeance, but I hope we get some new CSM Havocs and Troops. Just as long as they aren't the awful bling marines that they seem to be trying to turn CSM into.

Sisters, obviously, but beyond that I'd love some plastic Aspect Warriors. Haven't bought any since the move to Finecast simply because I'm scared of the flimsiness on thin bodies.

 The Wise Dane wrote:
Just checked the Sister models you mentioned... Oh so great quality, oh so much cheesecake... Why is it we can't have great female models without having them look like they've been through a stretcher torture device, inflated with botox and then put in skintight suits while being braught up to thrust their women-parts every-fething-where?...

Svarog had some okay Sisters models.
This, for instance:
http://svarogminiatures.com/?wpsc-product=female-warrior

Astra Militarum, new infantry sets that have ethnic diversity and, where the bodies aren't Rambo'd jungle fighters, women soldiers. And, of course, all unit wargear options.

ionusx wrote:because unlike the actually stupid bt'd we have piles of unique models and flavors. However gw at every turn gimped us to make way for better books for other armies.

What, extra Terminators and bikes?

Sisters, hands down. It's the one thin thread that still keeps me interested in 40K.

As to why they haven't (and likely won't) get new models/proper codex: I'd still put my money on the marketing suits not being able to figure out how to fit them into their "14 year old boys are our only demographic" strategy.

 Pendix wrote:
As to why they haven't (and likely won't) get new models/proper codex: I'd still put my money on the marketing suits not being able to figure out how to fit them into their "14 year old boys are our only demographic" strategy.

While really, they should add 11 years old girls to their demographic. This kind of 11 years old .

Sisters of Battle is the one true answer seeing how everything but their rhino chassis are metal (not even finecast) and are twice the price of normal kits as a result.

Of course as a daemon player I want them to update our old kits too, namely our daemonic beasts (flesh hounds, fiends, beasts of nurgle) and greater daemons.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Orks, Daemons, and Eldar, and CSM have the largest selection of units that need shifted over to plastic from resin/metal:
This is not counting special characters or HQ models with at least 1 wargear option or limited ed model in plastic.
....

I think the current Plague Marines aren't that bad. But by the dark gods, the Bloodthirster is a horrible, horrible model.

Only 1 wave is needed: Vect.

Sisters of Battle (quite obviously) and then Chaos Marines. Why the later? It's simple, much of their range, especialy cult marines and standard marines, sucks. The HQs are also no match for their awesome counterparts in the fantasy range. Having some well looking elite and assault choices is nice but ultimately insufficient if the core of your army looks like crap from the late 90s. Once that is done they can release a bunch of new Firewarriors too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BoomWolf wrote:

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
There is nothing wrong with the CSM base kit

Stopped reading here.

That's madness. If this were Sparta, you'd have been kicked into a hole.

The existing Chaos Marines kit is perhaps one of the worst plastic troops kits in 40K. Really only rivaled by the Catachans and Cadians.

Had you NOT stopped reading, you would see the reasonig I gave WHY there is nothing wrong with that kit.

Honestly, nobody ever gave me a solid reason to why CSM kit is bad that is not solved by simple conversion (usually without even requring extra bitz, but entirely posible from within the kit itself with minor adgusments)

When people want a CSM kit that can, on its own, represent every single chaos force out there without the need of the tiniest conversion, naturally no kit will serve them. CSM are a conversion army by its nature, its literally space marines that switched sides.
The kit is meant to do one thing-serve as a base for generic chaos forces and serve as a conversion base for specialisted chaos forces. it does both jobs successfully.
I won't claim its the BEST possible CSM kit, and there is room for upgrades, but with all honesty there are plenty of armies in far more dire needs than CSM there. some armies does not even HAVE kits, let alone the ability to convert out of 5 different armies with ease.

There is no chaos force you want to represent on the table that cannot be done with existing kits, you just need to get some loyalists too from time to time for conversions, or go to forgeworld models for the more specific things.

So, the kit is so awesome that you need to kitbash it to get something out of it which still looks like a kitbashed model from the late 90s. Not to mention the pityful lack of detail, poor casting, stupid poses and complete absence of inspiration (it looks like the old loyalist kit with a bunch of horns and metal trim). If i want Renegades then i can buy the far superior spacemarine tactical box and "convert" them. When i buy the chaos box then i fully expect something like the DV Chosen, perhaps with less bling and mutation for the rank and file troops, but of an overal similar style. Strangely enough the Fantasy Chaos Warriors are actualy good looking.

 Ugly Green Trog wrote:
I'm just waiting for a Space Marine Combiner

It seems to me there's a hole in the range, There aren't enough really big space marines.

Here me out here. We take space marines and we put them inside bigger space marines a la centurians, with me so far? Then we give those large space marines with regular space marines inside the ability to combine with 6 other large space marines with regular space marines into a gestalt figure that looks like.....wait for it...this is the brilliant part....a giant effing SPACE MARINE! Brilliant stuff, price it at £300 and give the design team the rest of the month off.

I laughed way harder then I should of at this....

Almost every plastic model pre, I don't know, 2003?

The vehicles are fine, very few of them need replacements at this point, but infantry, well....

Cadians, Chaos Marines, Oblits, Tactical Terminators, Assault Marines, anything Finecast, Sisters (obviously).

About the only last-gen infantry I think look good are Tau; Tau infantry have aged well, even the suits aren't abominable, just mediocre, and things like Guardians/Dire Avengers are fine, but that's kind of the end of the list.

For the makers of "The Best Miniatures in the World" I find most of the infantry quite underwhelming. They pushed the envelope back in the day, but they haven't kept pace.

KingDeath wrote:
Sisters of Battle (quite obviously) and then Chaos Marines. Why the later? It's simple, much of their range, especialy cult marines and standard marines, sucks. The HQs are also no match for their awesome counterparts in the fantasy range. Having some well looking elite and assault choices is nice but ultimately insufficient if the core of your army looks like crap from the late 90s. Once that is done they can release a bunch of new Firewarriors too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BoomWolf wrote:

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
There is nothing wrong with the CSM base kit

Stopped reading here.

That's madness. If this were Sparta, you'd have been kicked into a hole.

The existing Chaos Marines kit is perhaps one of the worst plastic troops kits in 40K. Really only rivaled by the Catachans and Cadians.

Had you NOT stopped reading, you would see the reasonig I gave WHY there is nothing wrong with that kit.

Honestly, nobody ever gave me a solid reason to why CSM kit is bad that is not solved by simple conversion (usually without even requring extra bitz, but entirely posible from within the kit itself with minor adgusments)

When people want a CSM kit that can, on its own, represent every single chaos force out there without the need of the tiniest conversion, naturally no kit will serve them. CSM are a conversion army by its nature, its literally space marines that switched sides.
The kit is meant to do one thing-serve as a base for generic chaos forces and serve as a conversion base for specialisted chaos forces. it does both jobs successfully.
I won't claim its the BEST possible CSM kit, and there is room for upgrades, but with all honesty there are plenty of armies in far more dire needs than CSM there. some armies does not even HAVE kits, let alone the ability to convert out of 5 different armies with ease.

There is no chaos force you want to represent on the table that cannot be done with existing kits, you just need to get some loyalists too from time to time for conversions, or go to forgeworld models for the more specific things.

So, the kit is so awesome that you need to kitbash it to get something out of it which still looks like a kitbashed model from the late 90s. Not to mention the pityful lack of detail, poor casting, stupid poses and complete absence of inspiration (it looks like the old loyalist kit with a bunch of horns and metal trim). If i want Renegades then i can buy the far superior spacemarine tactical box and "convert" them. When i buy the chaos box then i fully expect something like the DV Chosen, perhaps with less bling and mutation for the rank and file troops, but of an overal similar style. Strangely enough the Fantasy Chaos Warriors are actualy good looking.

Right now I find myself using as much of the left over bits from the two Warp Talon kits for my CSM's. Makes the aspiring champions look purty.

 Wyzilla wrote:

KingDeath wrote:
Sisters of Battle (quite obviously) and then Chaos Marines. Why the later? It's simple, much of their range, especialy cult marines and standard marines, sucks. The HQs are also no match for their awesome counterparts in the fantasy range. Having some well looking elite and assault choices is nice but ultimately insufficient if the core of your army looks like crap from the late 90s. Once that is done they can release a bunch of new Firewarriors too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BoomWolf wrote:

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
There is nothing wrong with the CSM base kit

Stopped reading here.

That's madness. If this were Sparta, you'd have been kicked into a hole.

The existing Chaos Marines kit is perhaps one of the worst plastic troops kits in 40K. Really only rivaled by the Catachans and Cadians.

Had you NOT stopped reading, you would see the reasonig I gave WHY there is nothing wrong with that kit.

Honestly, nobody ever gave me a solid reason to why CSM kit is bad that is not solved by simple conversion (usually without even requring extra bitz, but entirely posible from within the kit itself with minor adgusments)

When people want a CSM kit that can, on its own, represent every single chaos force out there without the need of the tiniest conversion, naturally no kit will serve them. CSM are a conversion army by its nature, its literally space marines that switched sides.
The kit is meant to do one thing-serve as a base for generic chaos forces and serve as a conversion base for specialisted chaos forces. it does both jobs successfully.
I won't claim its the BEST possible CSM kit, and there is room for upgrades, but with all honesty there are plenty of armies in far more dire needs than CSM there. some armies does not even HAVE kits, let alone the ability to convert out of 5 different armies with ease.

There is no chaos force you want to represent on the table that cannot be done with existing kits, you just need to get some loyalists too from time to time for conversions, or go to forgeworld models for the more specific things.

So, the kit is so awesome that you need to kitbash it to get something out of it which still looks like a kitbashed model from the late 90s. Not to mention the pityful lack of detail, poor casting, stupid poses and complete absence of inspiration (it looks like the old loyalist kit with a bunch of horns and metal trim). If i want Renegades then i can buy the far superior spacemarine tactical box and "convert" them. When i buy the chaos box then i fully expect something like the DV Chosen, perhaps with less bling and mutation for the rank and file troops, but of an overal similar style. Strangely enough the Fantasy Chaos Warriors are actualy good looking.

Right now I find myself using as much of the left over bits from the two Warp Talon kits for my CSM's. Makes the aspiring champions look purty.

Pics pwease?

KingDeath wrote:
Sisters of Battle (quite obviously) and then Chaos Marines. Why the later? It's simple, much of their range, especialy cult marines and standard marines, sucks. The HQs are also no match for their awesome counterparts in the fantasy range. Having some well looking elite and assault choices is nice but ultimately insufficient if the core of your army looks like crap from the late 90s. Once that is done they can release a bunch of new Firewarriors too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BoomWolf wrote:

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
There is nothing wrong with the CSM base kit

Stopped reading here.

That's madness. If this were Sparta, you'd have been kicked into a hole.

The existing Chaos Marines kit is perhaps one of the worst plastic troops kits in 40K. Really only rivaled by the Catachans and Cadians.

Had you NOT stopped reading, you would see the reasonig I gave WHY there is nothing wrong with that kit.

Honestly, nobody ever gave me a solid reason to why CSM kit is bad that is not solved by simple conversion (usually without even requring extra bitz, but entirely posible from within the kit itself with minor adgusments)

When people want a CSM kit that can, on its own, represent every single chaos force out there without the need of the tiniest conversion, naturally no kit will serve them. CSM are a conversion army by its nature, its literally space marines that switched sides.
The kit is meant to do one thing-serve as a base for generic chaos forces and serve as a conversion base for specialisted chaos forces. it does both jobs successfully.
I won't claim its the BEST possible CSM kit, and there is room for upgrades, but with all honesty there are plenty of armies in far more dire needs than CSM there. some armies does not even HAVE kits, let alone the ability to convert out of 5 different armies with ease.

There is no chaos force you want to represent on the table that cannot be done with existing kits, you just need to get some loyalists too from time to time for conversions, or go to forgeworld models for the more specific things.

So, the kit is so awesome that you need to kitbash it to get something out of it which still looks like a kitbashed model from the late 90s. Not to mention the pityful lack of detail, poor casting, stupid poses and complete absence of inspiration (it looks like the old loyalist kit with a bunch of horns and metal trim). If i want Renegades then i can buy the far superior spacemarine tactical box and "convert" them. When i buy the chaos box then i fully expect something like the DV Chosen, perhaps with less bling and mutation for the rank and file troops, but of an overal similar style. Strangely enough the Fantasy Chaos Warriors are actualy good looking.

Have you read what I wrote?
You don't need anything to kitbash, unless you want something SPESIFIC that is not the "generic chaos marine"

Also, the chaos kit very much not lack details. the fact its not the details you personally want does not mean there are no details, there are as many as there are in loyalists.
Casting issues not that I am aware of (but could be), and as for poses, that's personal taste, I find nothing wrong with them-and loyalist marines got the very same poses yet nobody seems to complain.


I am sick of people comparing them to the DV chosen and saying "that's how CSM should look like", not that's how CHOSEN look like. just like space marines don't look like the super-fancy sternguard and are rather bland, so should chaos base troopers.
BASIC troops are BASIC.

If you want fancy guys, you need a Chosen kit. now that would be a nice kit to have, but its not in no way a "regular chaos marine" set.

I got this.


...Squats
Bretonnians!
Sisters of Battle
MOAR Tyranids

Did I win?