Out of curiousity, what models do you think need to be re-released / updated the most?

By this I mean:
a) Older Models that are / were cool at the time but now look quite dated and could do with a redesign or at least improved detail
b) More recent or modern kits that you just hate the look of, and think should be put back n the drawing board


For me that list is, in order of priority:

(a)
1)Ragnar Blackmane, old metal wolf guard...pretty much all the SW IC's made suring 2nd edition. They are blatantly ancient.
2) Eldar Jetbike
3)Space marine bike and attack bike

(b)
1) Logan Grimnar on Stormrider
2) Centurions. Words can't express how ugly I think this kit is
3) EDIT: Space Wolf Flyers

I won't include my list of metal models that should be resculpted in plastic, it's too long, but feel free to do so yourself.

Sisters of battle

Sisters, Inquisition, and half of the Eldar, to bring them up to par with Dark Eldar models :X

Agree with you that SM Bike Squad needs an update, but not a huge one.

Sisters, most of the Eldar, and I'd love to see more plastic Cult Marines.

 CrownAxe wrote:
Sisters of battle

/thread

Really though. For me (even though I would hate to paint that many again) it be Cadian Shock troops. I can't say that I'm in the same boat as those that loathes them with passion, but when you compare them to the rest of the human models, especially FW, they become hard to take seriously. Their bulk almost matches the space marines and the helmetless sergeant, whose head manages to still be BIGGER than those with a helmet, is simply put, a joke.
For the metal range; I would love to see the greater daemons being remade. The FW models are way to big and the End of Times Nurgle models really showed that GW still are capable of making awesome chaos models.

* sisters

* eldar jet bike

* drop pods, just plain boring and the kit needs revised.

* agree with the OP centurions are the single most ugly piece of plasic I have ever seen. I would just take them out full stop, no revision of the model. Let's just forget them like a bad dream!

Chaos Space Marines, i love the look of the Dark Vengeance models and other newer kits but the basic Marines really let the army down now.

Have to disagree with the OP on Centurions think they are nice models but then i have never liked Terminators, they are what i think Terminators should be.

Also love the new Logan Grimnar, think he looks like an awesome reference to Thor(the god) not rubbish Marvel Thor.

Tyranids. Pretty much the whole 'larger than a Warrior' line. Hunchbacked, bloated, diseased with chimneys... I miss the Dino-bugs of 3rd and specifically the FW Tyrant. That beast was amazing...

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
Tyranids. Pretty much the whole 'larger than a Warrior' line. Hunchbacked, bloated, diseased with chimneys... I miss the Dino-bugs of 3rd and specifically the FW Tyrant. That beast was amazing...

While I don't think many of the nid models look bad as such (some I think look quite good), I agree they suffer from being a bit "samey." It's almost as though the design department took some of the concept sketches that made the shortlist for one unit and decided to release it as something else. As a non-nid player I have difficulty differentiating some of the newer tyranid MCs and their battlefield roles.

Sisters

 CrownAxe wrote:
Sisters of battle

Exalt. /Thread

Pretty much has to be the Sisters.

 CrownAxe wrote:
Sisters of battle

It's a wrap!

Sisters - Need to be in plastic

Crypteks - Need to be in plastic. I've seen more Lychguard models converted into Cryoteks than actual Crypteks. I'm using converted Pariahs myself.

Basic Chaos space marine and the Khorn berzekers. The csm look more like marauder than space marines corupted by the warp. For the berzekers, since FW did the WE Rampager,, Berzekers look like CSM with fancy helmets.

Sisters of Battle in plastic please

1. Sisters. All of them.
2. Chaos 'zerkers.
3. Chaos troops.
4. Mutilators. Make them look cool this time.
5. Logan Clause. It just came out, but please re-do it.

Runner up for personal bias:
Soul Grinder. I can't stand that thing.

Ork Buggies and Wartrakk.

The Orks using them are not even near the same look besides green skin.

I find the Eldar Jetbike riders helmets goofy looking. The DE bikes are sleek and dangerous; the Eldar one looks like the rider can't look anywhere but forward.

Nobody has mentioned Rough Riders yet?



Seriously...I'm surprised they're even still in the codex, GW doesn't even sell them anymore XD

I don't have much sense my Orks just got their models changed. My Ig are my convert army. Well except for Yarrick my favorites old model.


......but if I had to choose I say the blasted SpaceMarine Scouts! Gah! I feel like they are so limited. Especially when I get them for my black Templar.

Till then I must cut and chop and kit bash them.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Nobody has mentioned Rough Riders yet?



Seriously...I'm surprised they're even still in the codex, GW doesn't even sell them anymore XD

I used to use converted old Kislev horsemen for my rough riders. :( I think their rules need updating more than their models.

The Greater Daemons.

Squats...

and zoats

I think the Ork boyz need to have an update. I feel that the poses are old and outdated.

GW's to do list.

Sisters of Battle (Most obvious)
CSM Troops (All of them cult/regular)
Ork Boyz (Really could do with some love)
Kroot / Vespid (Need more dynamic poses)
Grimnar's Space Dwarf Viking Boat Thing (not updated, just removed.)

Mephiston

I already mentioned Sisters, but if they actually turned Sisters into a proper detachment (like Dark Angels, Blood Angels, etc.) -- I would go nuts and buy, like, an entire freaking 3,000 point army one shot >.<

 Gunzhard wrote:
Mephiston

Yes, why is Calistarius (Space Hulk) such an awesome model, and Mephiston such an ugly one?

Now you have me in the mood to paint Calistarius

I agree with you on Ragnar and the SW IC. Also chaos greater daemons and like all of the CSM. They are all old and ugly. I really think any model that is 3rd edition or older needs an update

Space Wolves have been said and so have Sisters.

I vote Valhallan Imperial Guard.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Nobody has mentioned Rough Riders yet?



Seriously...I'm surprised they're even still in the codex, GW doesn't even sell them anymore XD

I agree with Sisters and everything, but, RR have been pretty thoroughly neglected both model and rules wise.

 adamsouza wrote:

Crypteks - Need to be in plastic. I've seen more Lychguard models converted into Cryoteks than actual Crypteks. I'm using converted Pariahs myself.

I've seen more Lychguard/Praetoratin models converted into Crypteks than actual Lychguards/Praetoratins.

Hubris wrote:Chaos Space Marines, i love the look of the Dark Vengeance models and other newer kits but the basic Marines really let the army down now.

hellpato wrote:Basic Chaos space marine and the Khorn berzekers. The csm look more like marauder than space marines corupted by the warp. For the berzekers, since FW did the WE Rampager,, Berzekers look like CSM with fancy helmets.

Be careful what you wish for, I forsee a near future where GW release a new CSM box, and then force you to take only cultists or nonal CSM as troops to sell the new box... Cult troops staying in elites!!! #FearMongering

I agree, give the sisters of battle new models, new sculpts in plastic!

As has been said before, the Sisters of Battle are the most in need of plastic models, however, I do want to say my piece on this. Sisters...are complicated. So few bother with them that we still do have the metal models. We know that GW doesn't make more. It's not as cost effective, and we know how GW loves to cut costs. Until we completely sell through the dwindling stock of sisters, the odds are high that demand will never reach a level that will justify the plastification of the range. I can bet that plastic masters exist, and probably have for the last half decade or more, but GW has no reason to show them. Until we the dedicated playerbase show through the purchasing of the remaining stock, we can only hold this idea at arms length.

A) Drazhar
B) Stormtalon

 goblinking201 wrote:
I think the Ork boyz need to have an update. I feel that the poses are old and outdated.

Oh, holy crap. Don't let them touch the ork boyz. They'll make new ones incompatible with all the other kits. I'll take old and outdated if it means that they will work with all the ork bits. GW's work on the Blood Angels scared me.

On the other hand:

Ork Buggies and Wartrakks. I love the models, but they are geezers at this point. They need badly to be updated to be visually and mechanically compatible with the other ork vehicles and machines.

Deff Koptas. I don't really think the models need to be updated, as much as...be available.

Vostroyan IG, Sisters, Cryteks, Trans. Ctan, Logan's Christmas ride, Ragnar, Swooping Hawks, Centurions, Multilators, Cult CSM.

Dreadknight, many IG regiments like Mordians, Vostroyans etc.

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:
As has been said before, the Sisters of Battle are the most in need of plastic models, however, I do want to say my piece on this. Sisters...are complicated. So few bother with them that we still do have the metal models. We know that GW doesn't make more. It's not as cost effective, and we know how GW loves to cut costs. Until we completely sell through the dwindling stock of sisters, the odds are high that demand will never reach a level that will justify the plastification of the range. I can bet that plastic masters exist, and probably have for the last half decade or more, but GW has no reason to show them. Until we the dedicated playerbase show through the purchasing of the remaining stock, we can only hold this idea at arms length.

That's called a 'catch 22'. Dammed if they do, dammed if they don't. However for SoB is more of a...players who want to play SoB won't buy the models because they are expensive and all metal and because of that SoB are not selling GW won't do anything with them. I don't dought that their are some SoB players that would like to walk into GW HQ and slap the crap out of the head decision makers because the majority of the SoB line still uses the same models that were released 20 years ago (yes 20 years SoB released in 1997). GW's poster-boy SM's get new model releases each year and they can't seem to pull their head out their arse and wonder why SoB don't sell as well as other armies.

However DE were in a similar situation before their re-vamp and look at them now.

Talys wrote:
Yes, why is Calistarius (Space Hulk) such an awesome model, and Mephiston such an ugly one?

I think it's because he has the pose that was spammed in 2nd ed -gun arm perpendicular to the body, and sword arm just sticking out enough to give some but not much action to the model. I call it the "Standing around doing nothing in particular pose." I think the banded effect on his chest plate does him no favours either, nor does that giant collar, it reminds me of the cone of shame!

Da Butcha wrote:

 goblinking201 wrote:
I think the Ork boyz need to have an update. I feel that the poses are old and outdated.

Oh, holy crap. Don't let them touch the ork boyz. They'll make new ones incompatible with all the other kits. I'll take old and outdated if it means that they will work with all the ork bits. GW's work on the Blood Angels scared me.

On the other hand:

Ork Buggies and Wartrakks. I love the models, but they are geezers at this point. They need badly to be updated to be visually and mechanically compatible with the other ork vehicles and machines.

Deff Koptas. I don't really think the models need to be updated, as much as...be available.

GW confuses me a little on this deffkopta thing too. They've had te AoBR models floating around for years now, but still rely on the wierd old goofy one. GW even uses the newer one in all of its photos. They seem to avoid putting the buggies or tracks in though, for obvious purposes.

I love the Ork boyz models though. Simple yet still have character. I'd like to see some updates heads or more options, that is all. Or a kit to make hard boyz

Old One Eye and the Red Terror. Need a serious update.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Nobody has mentioned Rough Riders yet?



Seriously...I'm surprised they're even still in the codex, GW doesn't even sell them anymore XD

Good call, the death korps one are fantastic but I would love to see some cadian motorbikes or quads!

Every 2nd edition sculpt that's still knocking around.

Tycho
Dante
Mephiston
Corbulo
Ragnar
Njall
Azrael
The Phoenix Lords

Are just a few off the top of head.

I'll be the devil's advocate and say:

If painted properly SOB and Tycho look really awesome.

building an army out of them though...

Tau firewarriors and crisis suits have not aged well. Compare the model detail between a firewarrior and pathfinder and it makes the firewarriors look like cheap imitations. Such lack of detail and quality when the pathfinder box has way more detail, bits, equipment, and relatively the same model count if you count all the variation of drones included in the pathfinder box. Both are basically the same price now despite the giant divide in quality.

Crisis suits also lack a lot of detail and have the wierd legs and arms which makes them look really stiff. The new broadsides and crisis commander shows what a higher detail model can to improve the Tau aesthetic.

I would say the devilfish/hammerhead based models but they have aged well enough to not need a new model.

Da Butcha wrote:

 goblinking201 wrote:
I think the Ork boyz need to have an update. I feel that the poses are old and outdated.

Oh, holy crap. Don't let them touch the ork boyz. They'll make new ones incompatible with all the other kits. I'll take old and outdated if it means that they will work with all the ork bits. GW's work on the Blood Angels scared me.

On the other hand:

Ork Buggies and Wartrakks. I love the models, but they are geezers at this point. They need badly to be updated to be visually and mechanically compatible with the other ork vehicles and machines.

Deff Koptas. I don't really think the models need to be updated, as much as...be available.

Ork Boyz are pure gold.

They are the only models I've seen that even after 4 editions don't look like total gak (cadians...)

Also what happened to Blood Angels?

 fox-light713 wrote:

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:
As has been said before, the Sisters of Battle are the most in need of plastic models, however, I do want to say my piece on this. Sisters...are complicated. So few bother with them that we still do have the metal models. We know that GW doesn't make more. It's not as cost effective, and we know how GW loves to cut costs. Until we completely sell through the dwindling stock of sisters, the odds are high that demand will never reach a level that will justify the plastification of the range. I can bet that plastic masters exist, and probably have for the last half decade or more, but GW has no reason to show them. Until we the dedicated playerbase show through the purchasing of the remaining stock, we can only hold this idea at arms length.

That's called a 'catch 22'. Dammed if they do, dammed if they don't. However for SoB is more of a...players who want to play SoB won't buy the models because they are expensive and all metal and because of that SoB are not selling GW won't do anything with them. I don't dought that their are some SoB players that would like to walk into GW HQ and slap the crap out of the head decision makers because the majority of the SoB line still uses the same models that were released 20 years ago (yes 20 years SoB released in 1997). GW's poster-boy SM's get new model releases each year and they can't seem to pull their head out their arse and wonder why SoB don't sell as well as other armies.

However DE were in a similar situation before their re-vamp and look at them now.

Hey, it's this fairy tale again.

There's no Catch-22. I don't think you understand what a Catch-22 is (though you should read the novel. It's excellent). Not updating the Sisters has obviously been a conscious choice. The problem people have is that they believe that a company has to want to sell every product it ever makes. Like I showed before, the Squats had a much larger model range (by an almost 3:1 margin) and was abandoned. Genestealer Cult had approximately the same size model line and was abandoned. When you realize that you didn't even need Sisters of Battle to play their 3rd Edition Codex, and there hasn't been a printed codex since then, you realize there's no accident at work here.

Space Marines get more models because they sell. They don't sell because they get more models. You can't just manufacture demand like that. Sure, you'd sell plastic Sisters, but will you sell more plastic Sisters than you will whatever else you could have made instead of plastic Sisters? It's clear the answer is no, at least as far as Games Workshop is concerned. There are plenty of ancient models in the GW line. Eldar Aspect Warriors for example. Why haven't they been converted to plastic yet? Why are the ugly Chaos Marine, Cadian, and Catachan lines still being made?

What Games Workshop is in right now is a "This works fine, maybe damned if we do." Sisters are essentially a zero-cost product right now. Selling the e-Codex is easy profits. Fluff recycled from White Dwarfdex. Art recycled from other license material. No physical copies to ship/stock. If they sell the metal models, they're making a killing on them. People say "GW so stupid. Look how much a Sisters of Battle Squad costs! No wonder nobody buys them!" What they don't realize is that the price of the models is so high because Games Workshop probably doesn't care whether they sell any or not. Selling more Sisters means casting and stocking more Sisters. Cancelling the Sisters line endangers the IP. Keeping the status quo means 3rd party designers can't too closely mock up a Sisters line to compete.

"Why wouldn't GW want to sell more models? That's silly!" Well, maybe. But you have to realize that GW wants to keep their product lines deep, rather than broad. Expanding the Sisters line costs money. So influencing new players away from the Sisters means they can hope that directs them towards more profitable product lines. Every time you read somebody in a thread say "I would have played Sisters but I played "X" instead because it's cheaper" is almost certainly exactly what GW is trying to do. There's a basic, effectively "fixed" cost to each army. So you profit more by selling more of 12 armies than the same amount of total models across 13 armies. The only reason you would revamp the Sisters is if you believe it creates more demand. If it mostly just cannibalizes sales from another product line, you haven't actually made any money. Hence why the only "new" product lines for 40K in the last ten years have been fortifications and Knights.

The business game is a lot more complicated than most of you realize. Sure "A total revamp like the Dark Eldar could make Sisters succeed!" Is that what Games Workshop actually wants? They're having a hard enough time with declining revenue and profits as it is. Better to focus on selling through your proven product lines rather than risk money against an unknown variable which hasn't succeeded in the past either. If you look at the pledged total Kickstarter for those ridiculous Raging Cheesecake models, that's not even 1% of GW's annual revenue. That's not even a needle mover.

Anyhow, that all said (again, lol), let's hear all the factually unsupported, emotionally charged reasons why what I just said is total hooey.


I do agree that the Sisters are most in need of a complete overhaul though. Your reasoning is just terrible, and it's a rose-colored fabrication that gets repeated so often in the community, people actually believe it's true. It's a pleasant lie; one that fosters hope for a better future. Like one told to a child about there not being bad people, or that their teddy bear will protect them from any monsters under the bed. On that topic, I watched The Good Lie the other day. It was a pretty good movie.

I'm not sure which I'm more amazed by.

The fact that Veteran Sergeant persists in replying harshly to anything vaguely hopeful about the Sisters, or the fact that he hasn't resorted to copy-pasting when he insists that a what, four hundred word essay is the only way to get his point across.

I thought it was an interesting enough post and had not read it before.

Ragnar... The 80's rocker model is pretty brutal.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:

Space Marines get more models because they sell. They don't sell because they get more models. You can't just manufacture demand like that.

I would take issue with this to some degree. There is very definitely something to be said for large, available product lines increasing demand over an army with little availability. Space Marines have cheap (relatively) kits for every single unit, they're all available in stores, and they're all relatively new kits. Sisters are direct order only, they're more expensive, with very dated sculpts, and the range is fairly limited. For anyone looking into an army, the Sisters are thus going to be drastically less popular simply based on those things alone. There are large market barriers to playing Sisters.

Dark Eldar used to be very similar to Sisters of Battle, they weren't available in stores (direct order only), their models were old and ugly, and they were exceedingly rare. GW redid the entire line (directing more of it into plastic and less metal/finecast), and reintroduced them to shelves. Now they're a fairly popular and common army, while before they were practically nonexistent.

 PastelAvenger wrote:
Every 2nd edition sculpt that's still knocking around.

Tycho
Dante
Mephiston
Corbulo
Ragnar
Njall
Azrael
The Phoenix Lords

Are just a few off the top of head.

Njal has been updated

Generic Chaos Lords should get a plastic model

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:
Sisters...are complicated. So few bother with them that we still do have the metal models. We know that GW doesn't make more. It's not as cost effective, and we know how GW loves to cut costs. Until we completely sell through the dwindling stock of sisters, the odds are high that demand will never reach a level that will justify the plastification of the range.

They would sell a lot faster if the weren't fething £50 per squad! Why is it they can sell ten metal Valhallans (from the 1990s) for £20.50, yet ten metal sister (from the 1990s) costs £50? I actually think they use the Sisters range to test the Space Marine market to destruction. Every time someone is foolish enough to buy a Sisters squad for [insert crazy price], GW concludes money must be worthless again, so they add £2 to everything they sell.

Sisters, Steel Legion

 Smacks wrote:
Why is it they can sell ten metal Valhallans (from the 1990s) for £20.50, yet ten metal sister (from the 1990s) costs £50?

It's true, and not just of those 2 kits -There is a huge inconsistency in the value of models across the hobby.
-It isn't gauged on volume of material used (two man size characters can equal the cost of a large tank or dragon)
-Or on model count, for clear reasons
-Nor on number of parts either. I remember someone trying to justify this as the reason why Grey Knights are so highly priced, until I pointed out that the vastly cheaper Space Wolves Pack has a similar number of parts
-Clearly there is a higher production cost on more detailed kits, but as you've pointed out, this is not justified when the models become substandard due to age
-And by connection on characters and elite units that are in less demand than troops, and therefore need a higher unit cost. (It still doesn't justify €25 for a SM captain though)

The only thing that the price tag remotely corresponds to really is points values. And even then, only roughly.

Of course "value" is debatable, depending on how much of a gamer and how much of a modeller one is. I was pretty impressed when my friend picked up 10 Kabalite warriors and 10 ork boyz for €23 per box, compared to my wolves coming in at about €30 for the same model count. But points wise I'm getting more value.

Ork warbuggy, Its basically a 3rd edition metal mold, dark angels also need a new azreal model. His model is the same as it was in 4th ed except finecast.

 Great White wrote:

 PastelAvenger wrote:
Every 2nd edition sculpt that's still knocking around.

Tycho
Dante
Mephiston
Corbulo
Ragnar
Njall
Azrael
The Phoenix Lords

Are just a few off the top of head.

Njal has been updated

Not in power armour he hasn't.

 PastelAvenger wrote:

 Great White wrote:

 PastelAvenger wrote:
Every 2nd edition sculpt that's still knocking around.

Tycho
Dante
Mephiston
Corbulo
Ragnar
Njall
Azrael
The Phoenix Lords

Are just a few off the top of head.

Njal has been updated

Not in power armour he hasn't.

Didn't think about that one...so yeah add Njal to the update list as he looks like a 80s rocker

 thegreatchimp wrote:

 Smacks wrote:

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:
Why is it they can sell ten metal Valhallans (from the 1990s) for £20.50, yet ten metal sister (from the 1990s) costs £50?

It's true, and not just of those 2 kits -There is a huge inconsistency in the value of models across the hobby.
-It isn't gauged on volume of material used (two man size characters can equal the cost of a large tank or dragon)
-Or on model count, for clear reasons
-Nor on number of parts either. I remember someone trying to justify this as the reason why Grey Knights are so highly priced, until I pointed out that the vastly cheaper Space Wolves Pack has a similar number of parts
-Clearly there is a higher production cost on more detailed kits, but as you've pointed out, this is not justified when the models become substandard due to age
-And by connection on characters and elite units that are in less demand than troops, and therefore need a higher unit cost. (It still doesn't justify €25 for a SM captain though)

The only thing that the price tag remotely corresponds to really is points values. And even then, only roughly.

Of course "value" is debatable, depending on how much of a gamer and how much of a modeller one is. I was pretty impressed when my friend picked up 10 Kabalite warriors and 10 ork boyz for €23 per box, compared to my wolves coming in at about €30 for the same model count. But points wise I'm getting more value.

Fix your quote, I didn't say that. Why prices vary, I do not know, nor do I care. My point still stands that until the last of the pewter sisters sell, we probably won't see any changes. Ironically, if every player picked up a single blister of 3 sisters, we could probably see a major shift. I would say in a brief moment of insight, that the complete loss of the core troop of a Sisters army would definitely catapult GW into declaring something, whether it is a continuance in metal, discontinuance of the line, or shift to a new medium.

Skarbrand. Dude doesn't even fething exist.

This thing.... http://www.games-workshop.com/en-AU/Sisters-of-Battle-Dialogus

 IronFrog wrote:
This thing.... http://www.games-workshop.com/en-AU/Sisters-of-Battle-Dialogus

thing is definitely the right way the describe that. Did this even look ok when it was new?

 IronFrog wrote:
This thing.... http://www.games-workshop.com/en-AU/Sisters-of-Battle-Dialogus

Jesus Christ, yeah that takes the cake.

she's...intriguing

For the Love of the God-Emperor can we PLEASE forget that sculpt even exists?!

The old Nagash is beautiful as a fething Primarch compared to that thing.

Category A (Older sculpts that need updated)

1. Space Marine Terminator Captain
2. Chaos Space Marines with Cult Upgrade boxed sets.

Category B (Newer sculpts that need redone)

1. Grey Knights Dreadknight
2. Belial

 IronFrog wrote:
This thing.... http://www.games-workshop.com/en-AU/Sisters-of-Battle-Dialogus

Has to win the thread.

Just the perfect example! Its a Sisters model (Dialogus), by the way... just in case it was not ALL sarcasm

It could be worse... it could be turned 10' so that she was looking straight at you.

It is truly amazing how much damage an open mouth can do to a model.

Good Lord, that Sisters Dialogus model looks like a horrific caricature of a 40K version of Velma from Scooby Doo.

"JINKIES! It's ALPHARIUS!"

I love how this horrible sculpt just instantly stole the thread. In all honesty though, it's well deserved, she looks like some horrible hybrid of a fish/woman/frog, who tries to use her mouth as a vacuum cleaner.

Here we go again.

We had this once before, so I'll just retread old grounds and copy my analysis here again:

The two Tau Mainstays, Fire Warriors and Crisis Suits.

Fire Warriors aren't ugly per say, but the rest of the model rane have moved away from the "Let's make it blocky and shapy and call it sci-fi"-approach, and so it doesn't fit the rest of the line. They don't seem high-tech, as there's no technology to see, just shapes and edges. There's no culture to them, either - No ceremonial sword, pouches and grenades, sidearms or pieces of cloth showing, and the way they stand I often forget that they are hooved - Why don't show that in their poses more? The Pulse weapons need work, especially - Less "Fiddly long thing with a ball at the end" and more "Plasma Sniper, please. Maybe make a electro-magnet-part like on Plasma weapons that we can make a glow effect with? As extra spice, a female head would be great, alongside some less blocky male face/s - No different bodies are needed, their armour are rather bulky already, so that doesn't matter.

If you'd make them less like this:


And more like this (I KNOW IT'S A PATHFINDER, SHUT IT):


Crisis Suits are the same problem, really - They are too much shapes and too little technology. They need some culture too (Not just markings - Banners or jewelry hanging of them, ceremonial knifes, extra equipment, that ilk) and some movement (Loose fingers like on the commander model to be on a Shas'vre, arms looking like they are weapon arms and not just arms with weapons attached to them), and, of course, weapons that weren't made in a 3D maker in half an hour that LOOKS like weapons. Seriously, a Plasma Rifle with no Plasma bits? I'd be making some concept art for my ideas if I weren't sitting in a café.

Less like this:


And more like this (I KNOW IT'S A HAZARD SUIT, SHUT IT):


Look at that fething smug Tau's face. That's because his ride looks awesome.

/rant off.

Sisters. Terminator Chaplain.

Grayest Knight wrote:
Sisters. Terminator Chaplain.

Wait, what? This honestly is the first one that truly surprised me. The Terminator Chaplain IMHO is one extremely cool model and I'd love to get my hands on a metal one. Why do you think it needs an update?

Yeah I like that model too. Most of the old terminator models were not that bad and that one isn't even that old.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
It could be worse... it could be turned 10' so that she was looking straight at you.

I might just have to take that Pic for you... But it's unpainted.

Yes! I'll Admit! I OWN the thing!

 BlackTalos wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
It could be worse... it could be turned 10' so that she was looking straight at you.

I might just have to take that Pic for you... But it's unpainted.

Yes! I'll Admit! I OWN the thing!

Oh lord.. Out of curiousity, what does it even do on the table top? I sincerely hope for you it doesn't have a rule that makes it an auto include.

She carries a Relic from the armoury. It's important because our characters can otherwise only carry one, and most of them are AoE buff effects.

... so, yes, she's basically an auto-include. More relics = more love.

I don't usually take that model, because i play the squad she's in as pure Heavy Bolters, and this is so much prettier:
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Battle-Sister-with-Heavy-Bolter

Well, almost...
Blame the paint scheme, they might at least update that with the current Shield of Baal....

 Zewrath wrote:

Oh lord.. Out of curiousity, what does it even do on the table top? I sincerely hope for you it doesn't have a rule that makes it an auto include.

She stands there and kills your opponent dead the moment he looks at her.

 Psienesis wrote:
... so, yes, she's basically an auto-include. More relics = more love.

Well, she would be, except that Priests do the same job, don't take up a slot in the command squad, and don't frighten small children... quite so much.

 BlackTalos wrote:

 IronFrog wrote:
This thing.... http://www.games-workshop.com/en-AU/Sisters-of-Battle-Dialogus

Has to win the thread.

Just the perfect example! Its a Sisters model (Dialogus), by the way... just in case it was not ALL sarcasm

Oh wow that's bad, that face!

She is, literally, the worst thing that GW has ever inflicted upon its fanbase. Or humanity in general.

I wonder how much is down to the paint job? Maybe if she just had some teeth she'd look more bald and screaming, and less 'blow up love doll'.

Also needs sunglasses.

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:
Fix your quote, I didn't say that.

My apologies good sir -it appears my keyboard's machine spirit is malfunctioning.


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Ah Sister Dialogous, I knew you would make an appearance here sooner or later...

I'll add one more to my list. Not that I think it strictly needs resculpting, becasue there's already a few good chaplain sculpts made over the years. But my God the state of this guy. "Rarrghh! Behold heretic -all the other chaplains have this fearsome skull helm, and all I got is this cheap Haloween mask!"

 thegreatchimp wrote:
I'll add one more to my list. Not that I think it strictly needs resculpting, becasue there's already a few good chaplain sculpts made over the years. But my God the state of this guy. "Rarrghh! Behold heretic -all the other chaplains have this fearsome skull helm, and all I got is this cheap Haloween mask!"

Looks like Xavier of the Salamanders to me... Supposedly the only pic of him show him with just that apparel.

Also, can I be a heretic for a moment here? I like the Dialogus model. It has a certain weird charm to it, what with those small metal googles and wide open yapper.

Well, on the other hand...

 koooaei wrote:
Well, on the other hand...

Tzeentch's gift of change couldn't even hope to warp her face into something slightly less horrifying to look at, so I doubt that make up would do the trick.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Psienesis wrote:
... so, yes, she's basically an auto-include. More relics = more love.

My condolences to you then..

 koooaei wrote:
Well, on the other hand...

You can change Hair colour with Lipstick???

This is the "matching" art:



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Every Sister Dialogus seeks death in the emperor's name.

(by TirpitzLuincal, DeviantArt)

It'd take more than a bit of make-up to make that change...

fixed it

hahaha yeah pretty much.

I'm sure some painting skills could greatly improve the model, but then again:
Why would GW need to repaint any Sisters? It's not like they're being updated anytime soon =P

 thegreatchimp wrote:
Out of curiousity, what models do you think need to be re-released / updated the most?

Well theres probably others that are more urgent. But I would really like to have Kasrkin back - In plastic.

And while we are at it, remodel the Catachan's (who look really tough but in reality, are just as weak as regular guardsmen), Tallarn, Valhallan and Armageddon (the later 3 which each share out dated weapons - appearance wise).

Izob wrote:

 thegreatchimp wrote:
Out of curiousity, what models do you think need to be re-released / updated the most?

Well theres probably others that are more urgent. But I would really like to have Kasrkin back - In plastic.

And while we are at it, remodel the Catachan's (who look really tough but in reality, are just as weak as regular guardsmen), Tallarn, Valhallan and Armageddon (the later 3 which each share out dated weapons - appearance wise).

Well, on the other hand, one could argue that their 5+ armor comes from manly toughness. I mean, it's not from wearing armor, that's for sure.

Izob wrote:

But I would really like to have Kasrkin back - In plastic. And while we are at it, remodel the Catachan's (who look really tough but in reality, are just as weak as regular guardsmen), Tallarn, Valhallan and Armageddon (the later 3 which each share out dated weapons - appearance wise)

Amen to that. & it's quite surprising that it hasn't been done already. If all the regular guardsman squads were plasticised & @ €23 I'd imagine it would entice a lot of people to go out and buy themselves a new IG army. Maybe its a case of -as someone else mentioned with SOB -there'e stilll big stockpiles of the metals knocking around.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
All these Sister Dialogous's are cracking me up! I'm thinking of making a conversion of her riding on Nagash' shoulders. Old clown Nagash of course. It would serve as a tribute or shrine to terrible models. In fact I might use it as and objective marker.

Just sticking to chaos because its what I know best:

I don't think cult marines are that bad
Oblits & Mutilators (very bland flesh blob look)
Heldrake (gaping back end, too much dragon not enough daemon engine)
Culstists (need non snapfit models)
Chaos Lord in PA, Ideally multiple kits or one big kit to reflect his many options (current is some ancient sculpt that looks like it belongs in fantasy)
Terminators (look ok but the box has laughably few optional bits)
Abaddon & Typhus (both are dwarf termis)
Ahriman, Lucius, Fabius (old, more cartoony aesthetic)

All 4 greater daemons (old aesthetic, lack detail compared to modern stuff)
Flesh hounds/Karanak (cartoony)
Furies, beast of Nurgle (cartoony / lack detail)

and probably more I can't think of right now

Space marine scouts. Mr potato head belongs in Toy Story, not in my army...

Izob wrote:

 thegreatchimp wrote:
Out of curiousity, what models do you think need to be re-released / updated the most?

Well theres probably others that are more urgent. But I would really like to have Kasrkin back - In plastic.

And while we are at it, remodel the Catachan's (who look really tough but in reality, are just as weak as regular guardsmen), Tallarn, Valhallan and Armageddon (the later 3 which each share out dated weapons - appearance wise).

I just realized today that the Kasrkin model was no longer available, its one of my favorite models and sculpts, and I really hope it returns. I was using them for Gue'vesa conversions..

 BlackTalos wrote:
I don't usually take that model, because i play the squad she's in as pure Heavy Bolters, and this is so much prettier:
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Battle-Sister-with-Heavy-Bolter

Well, almost...
Blame the paint scheme, they might at least update that with the current Shield of Baal....

Nicely painted heavy bolter Sisters are AWESOME AND THE BEST EVAR!

 The Wise Dane wrote:
Also, can I be a heretic for a moment here? I like the Dialogus model. It has a certain weird charm to it, what with those small metal googles and wide open yapper.

I really like her too. I should buy the model before it disappear. But I looked at other pictures on the internet, and she seems very, very hard to paint right. Parchments that really call for fake writings can do that to models.

I actually found cosplay of her:
It would be even more awesome if she did not forget to open her mouth wide, but I can understand how that would be an horrible pose to keep for a long time.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 The Wise Dane wrote:
Also, can I be a heretic for a moment here? I like the Dialogus model. It has a certain weird charm to it, what with those small metal googles and wide open yapper.

I really like her too. I should buy the model before it disappear. But I looked at other pictures on the internet, and she seems very, very hard to paint right. Parchments that really call for fake writings can do that to models.

I actually found cosplay of her:

Spoiler:

That poor wych put a nice effort, sure, but cannot compete with such awesomeness

It would be even more awesome if she did not forget to open her mouth wide, but I can understand how that would be an horrible pose to keep for a long time.

Godfreakingdamnitthat'sawesome.

I can see it now - A really, really insane preacher, standing there with the largest of large mouths and screaming out the words of the Emperor...

I suspect her to have an augmented throat to cope with the stress... Or maybe five, so she might switch them when worn out

Based on my long (though flawed memory) here are some models still in production that are now older than the average new player:

Late Rogue Trader -1992 or so
Space Wolf characters (Ragnar, maybe some others)
Eldar Jet Bikes (maybe 2nd edition)

2nd edition 1994-1998 or so
Phoenix Lords
Falcon
Vyper
BA characters
DA characters
Chaos SM Characters
Sisters of Battle
Preachers
Metal IG regiments

Early 3rd edition 1999 or so
Catachans
Khorne Bezerkers
Eldar Guardians

All of them are certainly due for a replacement.

To that I'd add some kits that are just terribad:
SM Commander (needs more options like a 2nd lightning claw, better posing)
Chaos Termis (for $50 they need to have all their weapon options, ALL OF THEM)
Cadians (so, so, so boring... so much worse than the metals)
Cult Chaos Marines (metal/finecast hybrid kits, over 10 years old)
Chapter custom kits (metal/finecast hybrid kits, over 10 years old)
All Imperial fliers since the Valkyrie (scrap them, use FW designs)
Tau crisis suits
Marine Dreadnauts (replace the angry washing machine with a furioso)
Tech marine (tiny little cyber arms+metal/finecast=no sale)

I think we all see a pattern here, GW neglecting core prodcuts like troops for fancy new toys. And we all know that if you neglect your core product line in the end everything falls apart.

GW made a major mistake around 2010 when they decided they'd no longer nick FW designs. FW does great stuff and since it's already out there creates expectations for what units should look like. I think a big problem with the Storm Raven etc is they tried too hard not to look like the great FW fliers already out there.

 The Wise Dane wrote:
I suspect her to have an augmented throat to cope with the stress... Or maybe five, so she might switch them when worn out

Well, her collar is a loud-speaker, and her staff is another loud-speaker that is linked to her back, so I guess it is extremely likely that she has an augmented throat too. She seems to enjoy making some noise!

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Based on my long (though flawed memory) here are some models still in production that are now older than the average new player:

Late Rogue Trader -1992 or so
Space Wolf characters (Ragnar, maybe some others)
Eldar Jet Bikes (maybe 2nd edition)

2nd edition 1994-1998 or so
Phoenix Lords
Falcon
Vyper
BA characters
DA characters
Chaos SM Characters
Sisters of Battle
Preachers
Metal IG regiments

Early 3rd edition 1999 or so
Catachans
Khorne Bezerkers
Eldar Guardians

All of them are certainly due for a replacement.

To that I'd add some kits that are just terribad:
SM Commander (needs more options like a 2nd lightning claw, better posing)
Chaos Termis (for $50 they need to have all their weapon options, ALL OF THEM)
Cadians (so, so, so boring... so much worse than the metals)
Cult Chaos Marines (metal/finecast hybrid kits, over 10 years old)
Chapter custom kits (metal/finecast hybrid kits, over 10 years old)
All Imperial fliers since the Valkyrie (scrap them, use FW designs)
Tau crisis suits
Marine Dreadnauts (replace the angry washing machine with a furioso)
Tech marine (tiny little cyber arms+metal/finecast=no sale)

I think we all see a pattern here, GW neglecting core prodcuts like troops for fancy new toys. And we all know that if you neglect your core product line in the end everything falls apart.

GW made a major mistake around 2010 when they decided they'd no longer nick FW designs. FW does great stuff and since it's already out there creates expectations for what units should look like. I think a big problem with the Storm Raven etc is they tried too hard not to look like the great FW fliers already out there.

Agreed. And yeah FW designs are great and would probably be more affordable if gw picked them up and started making them.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Based on my long (though flawed memory) here are some models still in production that are now older than the average new player:

Late Rogue Trader -1992 or so
Space Wolf characters (Ragnar, maybe some others)
Eldar Jet Bikes (maybe 2nd edition)

2nd edition 1994-1998 or so
Phoenix Lords
Falcon
Vyper
BA characters
DA characters
Chaos SM Characters
Sisters of Battle
Preachers
Metal IG regiments

Early 3rd edition 1999 or so
Catachans
Khorne Bezerkers
Eldar Guardians

All of them are certainly due for a replacement.

To that I'd add some kits that are just terribad:
SM Commander (needs more options like a 2nd lightning claw, better posing)
Chaos Termis (for $50 they need to have all their weapon options, ALL OF THEM)
Cadians (so, so, so boring... so much worse than the metals)
Cult Chaos Marines (metal/finecast hybrid kits, over 10 years old)
Chapter custom kits (metal/finecast hybrid kits, over 10 years old)
All Imperial fliers since the Valkyrie (scrap them, use FW designs)
Tau crisis suits
Marine Dreadnauts (replace the angry washing machine with a furioso)
Tech marine (tiny little cyber arms+metal/finecast=no sale)

I think we all see a pattern here, GW neglecting core prodcuts like troops for fancy new toys. And we all know that if you neglect your core product line in the end everything falls apart.

GW made a major mistake around 2010 when they decided they'd no longer nick FW designs. FW does great stuff and since it's already out there creates expectations for what units should look like. I think a big problem with the Storm Raven etc is they tried too hard not to look like the great FW fliers already out there.

Whiled I'd agree with most of these, I think the Falcon has held up rather well, I still think its one of the best looking kits in the game.

I'm not a fan of those mid 90s Eldar tanks.

The air intakes, antennas and HUD display make them look too 21st century for me. Eldar tech should be shinny and smooth and so advanced they're indistinquishable from magic.

While the original epic Falcon was pretty poor the epic Wave Serpent design always seemed like a better direction to me.

Chaos Marines

Force Commander needs to be updated and made back into a plastic set and allowing you to customize the captain.

 Asherian Command wrote:
Force Commander needs to be updated and made back into a plastic set and allowing you to customize the captain.

Careful what you wish for- GW has been remaking the characters in plastic....

BairdEC wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
Force Commander needs to be updated and made back into a plastic set and allowing you to customize the captain.

Careful what you wish for- GW has been remaking the characters in plastic....

The commander sprue is quite dated, and could use a re-cut though. It’s still not a bad selection of bits. But frankly if you want captains these days, I’d just grab the sternguard and vanguard veteran boxes and work from there. So many fancy bits, and between them, pretty much every option.

Considering how well they can pack things onto the sprues these days, the commander does smack of wasted potential. But I don’t see GW re-cutting it and making it viable, considering they would probably bump the price up a bit, and the other options out there. Why pay $22 for one captain when you can get 5 for $40-50?

Characters should be plastic. Metal models are a pain to convert or tweak. Its to the point where remaking characters using bits from other kits is better than the old metal models they sell.

I just hate metal models period, the more of them they phase out the better.

 Shadowclaimer wrote:
Characters should be plastic. Metal models are a pain to convert or tweak. Its to the point where remaking characters using bits from other kits is better than the old metal models they sell. I just hate metal models period, the more of them they phase out the better.

My main issue with metals is is that paint is much more prone to flaking / chipping off them than it is with plastic. Protruding detail like knuckles, or extremeties that are prone to bending like staffs or tails would always chip on me even after a double coat of varnish.

There is a flip-side to that though -paint strips off them much easier than plastic or resin. Something I discovered while refurbishing 2nd hand figures.

Most eldar (sculpts are alright, just, can we have them in plastic?)
A box of Cultists, say, 10 to a box, with arms for autoguns or pistols
Sisters
Anything still in metal converted to plastic.

 thegreatchimp wrote:

 Shadowclaimer wrote:
Characters should be plastic. Metal models are a pain to convert or tweak. Its to the point where remaking characters using bits from other kits is better than the old metal models they sell. I just hate metal models period, the more of them they phase out the better.

My main issue with metals is is that paint is much more prone to flaking / chipping off them than it is with plastic. Protruding detail like knuckles, or extremeties that are prone to bending like staffs or tails would always chip on me even after a double coat of varnish.

There is a flip-side to that though -paint strips off them much easier than plastic or resin. Something I discovered while refurbishing 2nd hand figures.

I agree on both counts, just not a fan of metal myself.

 BlackTalos wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
Well, on the other hand...

You can change Hair colour with Lipstick???

This is the "matching" art:



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Every Sister Dialogus seeks death in the emperor's name.

(by TirpitzLuincal, DeviantArt)

Is Rosie O'Donnell getting money for this?

I'd give my left knee cap and right pinky toe for a box of plastic Mordian Iron Guard.

I always figured that that sister dialogus was supposed to have a speaker grille or some other augmetic grafted to her mouth. Plus it's a horrible paint job.

I've got a bunch of Kasrkin models as inquisitorial storm troopers, I love that design and was gutted (and bemused) when they withdrew it.

Fundamentally I don't understand why the keep inventing new, often stupid, units (looking at you Taurox), when there's so many unsupported lines out there that they could be revisiting.

Re-releasing cool new Tallarn, Vostoryan, etc could get people starting entirely new armies, rather than trying to persuade vets that they need to add some new unit that apparently existed all the time, but we just never saw before (looking at you Centurions)

/rant

I only play Tyranids, so I would really like an updated Carnifex, maybe some properly burly arms for the Brain Leeches?

Lictors. They're supposed to be super hunters.... just have them standing there.... looking relaxed. Also Catachans. A lot of their poses and faces are just plain ugly to look at. It just doesn't look natural.