I have just been wondering, since orks can take the Malefic powers as weirdboyz, why not take an ork hourde detatchment with 3 min squads of grots for holding objectives (even though they wont have objective secured, they can take objectives as your man force surges forward) and 3 Weird boyz!!! thats 210 points worth of weird boyz. with the powers, odds are that you will be able to get possession which for 3 warp charges (you will generate minimim of 7 warp charges a turn and a max of 15) you can summon a bloodthirster EASY! sure, the 70 point weirdboy will die, but who cares! you now have a 250 point monster instead of a 70 point weirdboy. PLUS you could get incursion to send tonnes of bloodthirsters running towards the enemy along side your orks - terrifying!
this idea excites me becausei have always wanted to play demons and orks, let me know your thoughts!?
I have just been wondering, since orks can take the Malefic powers as weirdboyz, why not take an ork hourde detatchment with 3 min squads of grots for holding objectives (even though they wont have objective secured, they can take objectives as your man force surges forward) and 3 Weird boyz!!! thats 210 points worth of weird boyz. with the powers, odds are that you will be able to get possession which for 3 warp charges (you will generate minimim of 7 warp charges a turn and a max of 15) you can summon a bloodthirster EASY! sure, the 70 point weirdboy will die, but who cares! you now have a 250 point monster instead of a 70 point weirdboy. PLUS you could get incursion to send tonnes of bloodthirsters running towards the enemy along side your orks - terrifying!
this idea excites me becausei have always wanted to play demons and orks, let me know your thoughts!?
How do you get "a mininum of 7 and a maximum of 15" warp charges per turn?
With 3 weirdboyz with level 2 psycher upgrade, they will produce 6 warp charges a turn. If they are all withing range of 10 units with... is it "ere we go"? (Not got my rulebook on me) then they produce 1 extra charge each.
So its minimum 6 and maximum 9.
Why not take an attachment with more werid boyz then you can have a 6 weird boyz and surround them with nothing but ork boyz, maybe green tide wink wink, for 18 min warp charges, when upgraded to warp heads, 2base pluse one for speacial rule.
Either way tell me how it goes, I am also excited bout doing this if i ever get some deamons.
I have just been wondering, since orks can take the Malefic powers as weirdboyz, why not take an ork hourde detatchment with 3 min squads of grots for holding objectives (even though they wont have objective secured, they can take objectives as your man force surges forward) and 3 Weird boyz!!! thats 210 points worth of weird boyz. with the powers, odds are that you will be able to get possession which for 3 warp charges (you will generate minimim of 7 warp charges a turn and a max of 15) you can summon a bloodthirster EASY! sure, the 70 point weirdboy will die, but who cares! you now have a 250 point monster instead of a 70 point weirdboy. PLUS you could get incursion to send tonnes of bloodthirsters running towards the enemy along side your orks - terrifying!
this idea excites me becausei have always wanted to play demons and orks, let me know your thoughts!?
How do you get "a mininum of 7 and a maximum of 15" warp charges per turn?
With 3 weirdboyz with level 2 psycher upgrade, they will produce 6 warp charges a turn. If they are all withing range of 10 units with... is it "ere we go"? (Not got my rulebook on me) then they produce 1 extra charge each.
So its minimum 6 and maximum 9.
Or at least, thats my understanding.
Are you forgetting that you roll a d6 for warp charges?
1+6 = 7,
6+9=15
PipeAlley wrote: I'd suggest unbound with the weirdboyz attached to a unit of Boyz and a Mad Doc for FNP. Play with the numbers to optimize what works best for you.
The FNP is not a bad idea, since it is technically not a save and you can make it against the wounds caused from perils.
Automatically Appended Next Post: 6 Warpheads
6 Painboyz
6 units of 30 boyz w/ nob, bp, BC, ‘eavy armor
This comes to 1980 points. and works out to a nice 666 demon combo. While there are no PKs, you should hopefully be able to summon some daemons that can smash some armor. But this is also unbound and uses 180 Boyz.
Are you forgetting that you roll a d6 for warp charges?
1+6 = 7,
6+9=15
Ok, well, yes. Yes I did.
I've been playing around with this idea too (Though now it sounds slightly better with the extra dice), if only because it would be a bit of a different army list style to play. Always nice to have variety. You would probably want to load up on wierdboyz though. Two Ork detachments, so 6 HQ slots, would mean you could go for 5 wierdboyz and a painboy. Though might be more sensible to go for 4 weirdboyz and 2 painboyz and split them up into two boyz squads.
This is if you're gonna try for a big demon summoning host. I'd be tempted to go for something more balanced, like 3 weirdboyz, 1 painboy, 1 big mek with KFF (or warboss maybe) and have some other units like warbikers around... however going half-assed will likely mean your weidboyz will kill themselved without producing much.
Icculus' suggestion of 6 weirdboyz might be the way to go. Though I'm not sure you need a unit of 30 boyz per weirdboy (unless theres some reasoning behind it, like one of the powers destroys entire units or something). I'd think that 3 weirdboyz could hide in one squad of boyz pretty easily. Also means you'd only need 2 painboyz.
.... does summoning work from inside vehicles? 3 weirdboyz + 17 boyz in a battlewagon? Dunno if theres a point to that... Except that then the demons you summon would be in the enemy front lines instead of being back in your deployment?
Hold up! I think you are on to something with the battlewagons!
5 Warpheads
5 battlewagons w/ a ram and a big shoota
5x 19 boyz w/ nob, bp, PK
1745 points and uses the battlewagon formation. So the army gets to scout up 12 inches. First turn of summoning gets your daemons even closer. And this follows the WAAGH detachment and standard CAD detachment. 3 HQs and 3 troops and then 2 HQs and two troops.
But a side note is that the extra warp charge for being near 10 boyz does not work while embarked in a vehicle.
Ahh, I just re-read the rule and you're right. No transports or buildings, if you want the bonus charges. Guess its a toss-up between the extra charges and the extra defence.
Niiru wrote: Ahh, I just re-read the rule and you're right. No transports or buildings, if you want the bonus charges. Guess its a toss-up between the extra charges and the extra defence.
But if you're going down the Daemonology route, you need to disembark to summon anything anyway.
Niiru wrote: Ahh, I just re-read the rule and you're right. No transports or buildings, if you want the bonus charges. Guess its a toss-up between the extra charges and the extra defence.
But if you're going down the Daemonology route, you need to disembark to summon anything anyway.
Well that wouldnt be so bad. scout 12" first turn disembark. Then begin summoning and you would still get the extra charges because you are around 10+ boyz in the start of the psychic phase.
i tried that once... unbound with a green tide. friendly game, where i warned them that i would bring something "special"
did manage to summon plenty of pink horrors and other lesser deamons to multiply my charges =) all in all twas really funny game... worked suprisingly well. i had like 5-6 weridboyz and about 100 boy plus a warboss, grotsnik and stuff... i think about 1500 points.
for competitive or "real" games with friends thought? idk... it seems a bit cheesy... but than dameaeaoneology is always a bit strange... not to mention going unbound... ... -.-
The only time I did this, I had a single weirdboy who summoned pink horrors. They in turn could summon safely, and I got off 1 unit of plaguebearers, but then my opponent started to focus on them and killed them all. Still not bad for 1 weirdboy, and it was great fun and a huge surprise.
I know nothing about any of the daemons, so pink horrors can also summon? Are they psykers or do they get a special power specifically (without rolling on daemonology)?
May need to go find and read a copy of the chaos daemons book. Intrigueing.
Pink Horrors are brotherhood of psykers, but will only generate 1 warp die and only have 1 power (which can be the primaris summoning of course.)
The main thing is that even if they peril and die, you only lose 1 and you would need to lose all 10 to stop them summoning.
The best part of this is they do get a roll on the malific table when they are created, and just might get a 6...voila, instant greater daemon. Or possibly better they could get sacrifice and create a herald, who then gets more rolls and dice.
What I mean is, you roll for psychic powers pre-game... so what do you do if you summon a unit of psykers? Do you roll for their powers when they appear, or do they just get the primaris as default?
This may be obvious, I just havent used psykers much in a long time.
On a different forum, a similar thread came up about making a summoning weirdboy army, but instead of using daemon models they wanted to use different types of squigs.
wuestenfux wrote: It is not going to work.
The Weirdboyz will get their brains fried early in the game.
Well they get two attempts each, as a failure isn't instant death its just one wound (most of the time anyway). So in the first two turns you have a decent chance of summoning at least 6 units of demons (with the army lists above of 6 weirdboys, assuming you'll get about 50% fail rate between rolling doubles and enemy deny the witch).
Considering the weirdboy only cost 70 points each, this seems like it would be fairly points-efficient. Not as good as a proper demon list obviously. But then if weirdboyz heads didnt explode on occasion, they wouldn't be orky enough. Over the whole game you should be able to summon enough before the weirdies die to cause your opponent some distress. Maybe.
And even if the weirdboyz dont make a big dent in the mix of things, with my list there would still be 95 ork boyz 18" away from their own deployment on their first turn. So, there's that.
I honestly really want to field this now. I just need to get 4 more boxes of boyz, two more battlewagons and 4 more weirdboyz. I may just proxy the weirdboys though.
holy moly guys, thanks for the replies! was not expecting so many so quickly, i will do my best to reply to you all
Icculus wrote: I say you try it and let us know how it goes. Battle report requested.
will do!
CrownAxe wrote: You perils on any doubles and only have Ld7 to defend yourself against it. You weird boyz will probably die before anything actually happens
Also never summon bloodthirsters. They are the worse greater daemon to summon.
i still think its worth the sacrifice of a weird boy. even if he dies (it is almost expected anyway) please explain what you would choose instead and why?
How do you get "a mininum of 7 and a maximum of 15" warp charges per turn?
With 3 weirdboyz with level 2 psycher upgrade, they will produce 6 warp charges a turn. If they are all withing range of 10 units with... is it "ere we go"? (Not got my rulebook on me) then they produce 1 extra charge each.
So its minimum 6 and maximum 9.
Or at least, thats my understanding.
so basically, 6 warp charges standard. you always roll D6 and add the amount to your dice pool, the least you can roll is 1, so 6+1=7. then if, as you say, you take 3 charges for each weird boy for their rule, and then roll the max on the d^ (6) then you will have 9+6=15.
Mojo1jojo wrote: Why not take an attachment with more werid boyz then you can have a 6 weird boyz and surround them with nothing but ork boyz, maybe green tide wink wink, for 18 min warp charges, when upgraded to warp heads, 2base pluse one for speacial rule.
Either way tell me how it goes, I am also excited bout doing this if i ever get some deamons.
fabulous idea my friend!!!! with so many weird boyz you could even put one or two on the waaagh table to get the +1 attack. or even have a go on the other demon table to get hammerhand! the combos are real boyz.
PipeAlley wrote: I'd suggest unbound with the weirdboyz attached to a unit of Boyz and a Mad Doc for FNP. Play with the numbers to optimize what works best for you.
though this could work and could be fun and competitive for friendly, tournament settings do not normally let you use unbound.
Niiru wrote: Ahh, I just re-read the rule and you're right. No transports or buildings, if you want the bonus charges. Guess its a toss-up between the extra charges and the extra defence.
But if you're going down the Daemonology route, you need to disembark to summon anything anyway.
Well that wouldnt be so bad. scout 12" first turn disembark. Then begin summoning and you would still get the extra charges because you are around 10+ boyz in the start of the psychic phase.
yep, wouldnt be too bad, but then the wagons are a massive point sync that may be slightly wasted i think. for that many points you could have some big threats.
RedNoak wrote: i tried that once... unbound with a green tide. friendly game, where i warned them that i would bring something "special"
did manage to summon plenty of pink horrors and other lesser deamons to multiply my charges =)
all in all twas really funny game... worked suprisingly well.
i had like 5-6 weridboyz and about 100 boy plus a warboss, grotsnik and stuff... i think about 1500 points.
for competitive or "real" games with friends thought? idk... it seems a bit cheesy... but than dameaeaoneology is always a bit strange... not to mention going unbound... ... -.-
so here i would mention that it is possible to have 5-6 weirdboyz with a CAD and a ork hourde detachment, so it could be used in a competitive setting, even if it is a little cheesy, but like i said at the start, it isnt the cheese that i have thought about this idea for, its the fact i can field my two favorite factions together in a weird and (possibly) fatal way (fatal to my opponent OR me!)
JimOnMars wrote: The only time I did this, I had a single weirdboy who summoned pink horrors. They in turn could summon safely, and I got off 1 unit of plaguebearers, but then my opponent started to focus on them and killed them all. Still not bad for 1 weirdboy, and it was great fun and a huge surprise.
yes! this is what i love about orks so much now just multiply the weird boyz for extra fun
Niiru wrote: On a different forum, a similar thread came up about making a summoning weirdboy army, but instead of using daemon models they wanted to use different types of squigs.
This appeals to me.
YES
wuestenfux wrote: It is not going to work.
The Weirdboyz will get their brains fried early in the game.
please explain how? i mean, if you have a tonne of power dice, you can do whatever you want and it doesnt matter if a weirdboy dies, because (hopefully) he will have done something awesome, and if not, who cares, orks are orks haha
RedNoak wrote: the brain of a single boy does not interest one, when a greater deamon is on the field =)
- a scrumptious quote my friend
so a couple of questions for you guys
1) since any role of a double is perrils on the demon table, if you roll, for example, 2 6s, 2 3s and 2 5s (3 sets of doubles), do you suffer perils once or 3 times?
2) what would you summon by default for the possession power and why? personally i would go for the bloodthirster, but obviously it would depend on my opponent, but i think that the fact he is fast and hits like a truck compliments the orks that should also be hurtling forward and provide another threat for my opponent to deal with.
3) what would you summon by default with the sacrifice and incursion powers? personally was thinking of bloodcrushes because they are fast and furious, and not to mention badass, and perhaps a nurgle or tzeench champion with extra mastery for the other one?
Which Summoning?
Which Sacrifice?
Which Incursion?
Which Possession?
As I would hope that there is one unit per power which is the "Best" (at least for orks), so that I could then look into making conversions for those units...
Would be cool to make myself a little side-army of "Ork Beasts and Oddboyz". Squigs and hulking ork brutes.
With 6 weirdboys all rolling 2x on the malific table you'd get a few sacrifice / possession shots to go along with your pink horror spam.
If you went 100% tzeentch on all of that lunacy you'd end up with a pretty dang strong daemon factory on turn 2, especially if a lot of the weirdboyz survive.
If you couple that with some good ol' fashioned ork dakka, rokkits and choppas you might be able to make a competitive army...I'm going to try it with some weirdboy proxies and see.
I've found that 2 lvl 2 weirdboyz is the perfect number. Stick one with backfield grots as ablative wounds (and a wound pool for making Heralds with Sacrifice) and put the other with mek gunz (T7 and giving grots that extra leadership) or boyz. Ideally you throw EVERY warp charge you have into making sure you summon a unit of pink horrors turn 1 and if you get it save a few dice for sacrifice. If your weirdboy perils, who cares? You've just summoned more than his cost in daemons already (70 for a weirdboy vs 115 for pink horrors because you get a leader, banner, and instrument for free w/ summoned units).
Then using the pink horrors you can get bloodcrushers (plague drones are better but bloodcrushers are more orky) from incursion, Tzeentch heralds on discs (turbo boost to hide or use jetbike speeds to contest/score objectives), MOAR PINK HORRORS, or become a Great Unclean One. Doing so rapidly allows you to turn 140pts worth of guys into ~400-500 points worth of stuff that your opponent must deal with.
As an extra bit of defensive oomph to your newly summoned pink horrors have them go to ground in ruins for a 3+ cover save re-rolling 1s to waste your opponents shots while still being able to use them as summoning factory and/or score/deny objectives.
The best part is that if your opponent has massive amounts of warp charge dice (eldar seer councils or daemon factory), you've only invested 140pts into the strategy which with good rolling can still work.
As for models I've personally done this:
Fantasy Savage Orks = pink horrors
Fantasy boar boyz = bloodcrushers
Fantasy black orks = bloodletters
Various fantasy orks + bits to make heralds
I would also like to know:
Which Summoning? Pink Horrors
Which Sacrifice? Tzeentch heralds on discs
Which Incursion? Plague Drones (Blood Crushers are easier to justify model wise)
Which Possession? Great Unclean One (No on Blood Thirster since he won't be any use for 2 turns due to being a swooping monstrous creature when he arrives)
As I would hope that there is one unit per power which is the "Best" (at least for orks), so that I could then look into making conversions for those units...
Would be cool to make myself a little side-army of "Ork Beasts and Oddboyz". Squigs and hulking ork brutes.
Which Summoning? Pink Horrors
Which Sacrifice? Tzeentch heralds on discs
Which Incursion? Plague Drones (Blood Crushers are easier to justify model wise)
Which Possession? Great Unclean One (No on Blood Thirster since he won't be any use for 2 turns due to being a swooping monstrous creature when he arrives)
As I would hope that there is one unit per power which is the "Best" (at least for orks), so that I could then look into making conversions for those units...
Would be cool to make myself a little side-army of "Ork Beasts and Oddboyz". Squigs and hulking ork brutes.
Isnt the great unclean one slow and purposeful? And so very very slow, for an ork army. Especially if you're spawning them in your own backfield.
Which Summoning? Pink Horrors
Which Sacrifice? Tzeentch heralds on discs
Which Incursion? Plague Drones (Blood Crushers are easier to justify model wise)
Which Possession? Great Unclean One (No on Blood Thirster since he won't be any use for 2 turns due to being a swooping monstrous creature when he arrives)
As I would hope that there is one unit per power which is the "Best" (at least for orks), so that I could then look into making conversions for those units...
Would be cool to make myself a little side-army of "Ork Beasts and Oddboyz". Squigs and hulking ork brutes.
Isnt the great unclean one slow and purposeful? And so very very slow, for an ork army. Especially if you're spawning them in your own backfield.
If you keep summoning units forward starting from your backfield (i.e. weirdboy summons 12 inches in front of him + scatter), pink horrors move/run forward (or hang out in midfield terrain) and summon 12 inches from them, etc...it usually allows for the ability to drop bloodcrushers or great unclean ones mid-field or in the enemy's deployment zone if you're lucky. This makes it so SnP doesn't matter since he should already be most of the way across the field by that point. Additionally he is a great bullet soak and a LoC is usually unnecessary since you already have a decent # of warp charges from Pink Horrors/Heralds
Edit added:
As extremely anecdotal evidence this strategy has worked in the last 7 games I've played with it only losing to a list with nothing but Tau Broadside missle spam with 5 riptides (including the 2 forgeworld ones) and dual flamer crisis suits
Icculus wrote: Plague Drones could be Orky as well. Smelly, nasty Orks riding around on Giant bugs. or flying squigs, as the old saying goes: When Squigs can fly.
It would be a novel idea, but I don't know how great the results would be. If I can get my hands on a third Weirdboy and some Daemon models, I'd have no problems running a summoning list to try it out, just for kicks. Though I have a feeling that the results will always be on the extreme end of the scale. You'll either do amazing, or you're keep suffering perils over and over again, risking losing your Weirdboyz or wounding them continuously.
I also think people are forgetting each Weirdboyz' ability stacks, so you get +3 extra charges if each one of them is close to 10+ other 'Ere We Go models. This gives you a potential of either 10 to 15, not 7 to 15. Not a HUGE deal, but an extra 3 Warp Dice could be helpful (or suicidal!)
Though if I were to make the Weirdboyz take something from the Daemon powers, I'd go Santic for the potential buffs over making a naturally hoard based army even more hoardy by summoning Daemons, though it could be fun to summon big demons as opposed to smaller ones if your power rolls work out for the better.
Melevolence wrote: It would be a novel idea, but I don't know how great the results would be. If I can get my hands on a third Weirdboy and some Daemon models, I'd have no problems running a summoning list to try it out, just for kicks. Though I have a feeling that the results will always be on the extreme end of the scale. You'll either do amazing, or you're keep suffering perils over and over again, risking losing your Weirdboyz or wounding them continuously.
I also think people are forgetting each Weirdboyz' ability stacks, so you get +3 extra charges if each one of them is close to 10+ other 'Ere We Go models. This gives you a potential of either 10 to 15, not 7 to 15. Not a HUGE deal, but an extra 3 Warp Dice could be helpful (or suicidal!)
Though if I were to make the Weirdboyz take something from the Daemon powers, I'd go Santic for the potential buffs over making a naturally hoard based army even more hoardy by summoning Daemons, though it could be fun to summon big demons as opposed to smaller ones if your power rolls work out for the better.
It would only be a horde-y ork army if you ran it as one though. You dont need 10 boyz per weirdboy, so you could have all 3 weirdboyz in one blob of boyz, somewhere relatively safe... This would be about 400 points, which is a pretty large chunk of army true.
But then you can have artillery, warbikes, MANz... pretty much whatever elite style models you want for the rest of your list, as the rest of your hordes will be (hopefully) getting summoned in for free.
Its true though, if you are running a green tide, there's probably not much point in summoning even more hordes... though a few big nasties like unclean ones and the like might be good.
Largely this is the kind of thing I would run for fun though. Make my opponent keep guessing.
Melevolence wrote: It would be a novel idea, but I don't know how great the results would be. If I can get my hands on a third Weirdboy and some Daemon models, I'd have no problems running a summoning list to try it out, just for kicks. Though I have a feeling that the results will always be on the extreme end of the scale. You'll either do amazing, or you're keep suffering perils over and over again, risking losing your Weirdboyz or wounding them continuously.
I also think people are forgetting each Weirdboyz' ability stacks, so you get +3 extra charges if each one of them is close to 10+ other 'Ere We Go models. This gives you a potential of either 10 to 15, not 7 to 15. Not a HUGE deal, but an extra 3 Warp Dice could be helpful (or suicidal!)
Though if I were to make the Weirdboyz take something from the Daemon powers, I'd go Santic for the potential buffs over making a naturally hoard based army even more hoardy by summoning Daemons, though it could be fun to summon big demons as opposed to smaller ones if your power rolls work out for the better.
It would only be a horde-y ork army if you ran it as one though. You dont need 10 boyz per weirdboy, so you could have all 3 weirdboyz in one blob of boyz, somewhere relatively safe... This would be about 400 points, which is a pretty large chunk of army true.
But then you can have artillery, warbikes, MANz... pretty much whatever elite style models you want for the rest of your list, as the rest of your hordes will be (hopefully) getting summoned in for free.
Its true though, if you are running a green tide, there's probably not much point in summoning even more hordes... though a few big nasties like unclean ones and the like might be good.
Largely this is the kind of thing I would run for fun though. Make my opponent keep guessing.
Dat blob would be ripe for DS destruction or pie plate dropping XD
I spose one could play a more elitey Ork army in this case, just not sure how well it would go. I'd probably play more armored Wall, use BWs to fire off plates with Boyz holding the front, or like you said, play a lot of Artillery or Fliers to hold stuff off long enough until you succeed.
Melevolence wrote: It would be a novel idea, but I don't know how great the results would be. If I can get my hands on a third Weirdboy and some Daemon models, I'd have no problems running a summoning list to try it out, just for kicks. Though I have a feeling that the results will always be on the extreme end of the scale. You'll either do amazing, or you're keep suffering perils over and over again, risking losing your Weirdboyz or wounding them continuously.
I also think people are forgetting each Weirdboyz' ability stacks, so you get +3 extra charges if each one of them is close to 10+ other 'Ere We Go models. This gives you a potential of either 10 to 15, not 7 to 15. Not a HUGE deal, but an extra 3 Warp Dice could be helpful (or suicidal!)
Though if I were to make the Weirdboyz take something from the Daemon powers, I'd go Santic for the potential buffs over making a naturally hoard based army even more hoardy by summoning Daemons, though it could be fun to summon big demons as opposed to smaller ones if your power rolls work out for the better.
It would only be a horde-y ork army if you ran it as one though. You dont need 10 boyz per weirdboy, so you could have all 3 weirdboyz in one blob of boyz, somewhere relatively safe... This would be about 400 points, which is a pretty large chunk of army true.
But then you can have artillery, warbikes, MANz... pretty much whatever elite style models you want for the rest of your list, as the rest of your hordes will be (hopefully) getting summoned in for free.
Its true though, if you are running a green tide, there's probably not much point in summoning even more hordes... though a few big nasties like unclean ones and the like might be good.
Largely this is the kind of thing I would run for fun though. Make my opponent keep guessing.
Moreso you gain flexibility.
lot of 3+ saves? Send some bloodcrushers with lots of ws5 s5 ap3 attacks
2+ saves? Daemonettes going first with rending or some other big bad daemon
Need that objective that is 12 inches away and no one else can get to it? Summon a unit and run towards it if you scatter (+3 inches to your run ftw)
Dat blob would be ripe for DS destruction or pie plate dropping XD
I'd be happy if my opponent dropped a pie plate on some free daemons instead of my boyz
Dat blob would be ripe for DS destruction or pie plate dropping XD
I spose one could play a more elitey Ork army in this case, just not sure how well it would go. I'd probably play more armored Wall, use BWs to fire off plates with Boyz holding the front, or like you said, play a lot of Artillery or Fliers to hold stuff off long enough until you succeed.
Depending on deployment you can minimize deepstrike issues. Pie plates are always going to be an issue for orks anyway.
May be better to seperate the weirdboyz into three seperate smaller blobs, but that wont really change much. At least if its one blob you can add a single painboy or big mek for FNP or KFF buffs. FNP probably better for the perils rolls.
I'm sure there are ways to play it to minimize losses. I expect someone on here would come up with ways and means, I'm no expert lol.
I doubt it would ever be a top-tier army list, I think we are just trying to come up with ways to make it fun and competitive in friendly games.
Melevolence wrote: It would be a novel idea, but I don't know how great the results would be. If I can get my hands on a third Weirdboy and some Daemon models, I'd have no problems running a summoning list to try it out, just for kicks. Though I have a feeling that the results will always be on the extreme end of the scale. You'll either do amazing, or you're keep suffering perils over and over again, risking losing your Weirdboyz or wounding them continuously.
I also think people are forgetting each Weirdboyz' ability stacks, so you get +3 extra charges if each one of them is close to 10+ other 'Ere We Go models. This gives you a potential of either 10 to 15, not 7 to 15. Not a HUGE deal, but an extra 3 Warp Dice could be helpful (or suicidal!)
Though if I were to make the Weirdboyz take something from the Daemon powers, I'd go Santic for the potential buffs over making a naturally hoard based army even more hoardy by summoning Daemons, though it could be fun to summon big demons as opposed to smaller ones if your power rolls work out for the better.
It would only be a horde-y ork army if you ran it as one though. You dont need 10 boyz per weirdboy, so you could have all 3 weirdboyz in one blob of boyz, somewhere relatively safe... This would be about 400 points, which is a pretty large chunk of army true.
But then you can have artillery, warbikes, MANz... pretty much whatever elite style models you want for the rest of your list, as the rest of your hordes will be (hopefully) getting summoned in for free.
Its true though, if you are running a green tide, there's probably not much point in summoning even more hordes... though a few big nasties like unclean ones and the like might be good.
Largely this is the kind of thing I would run for fun though. Make my opponent keep guessing.
Moreso you gain flexibility.
lot of 3+ saves? Send some bloodcrushers with lots of ws5 s5 ap3 attacks
2+ saves? Daemonettes going first with rending or some other big bad daemon
Need that objective that is 12 inches away and no one else can get to it? Summon a unit and run towards it if you scatter (+3 inches to your run ftw)
Dat blob would be ripe for DS destruction or pie plate dropping XD
I'd be happy if my opponent dropped a pie plate on some free daemons instead of my boyz
Edited for a mispelling
I was actually talking about the blob of boyz and Weirdboyz. It's a super idea target that ruins the entire list if it falls, which shouldn't be too difficult since...well...they are Boyz XD
I'm not saying it wouldn't be fun, but blobbing the Weirboyz up only makes it easier to rid the field of them, having 3 20 Boy blobs or something would force them to split forces/gunfire instead of just charging in off a deep strike of forcing YOU to charge, thus denying your abilities to summon (As I don't beleive you can summon while in CC)
Dat blob would be ripe for DS destruction or pie plate dropping XD
I spose one could play a more elitey Ork army in this case, just not sure how well it would go. I'd probably play more armored Wall, use BWs to fire off plates with Boyz holding the front, or like you said, play a lot of Artillery or Fliers to hold stuff off long enough until you succeed.
Depending on deployment you can minimize deepstrike issues. Pie plates are always going to be an issue for orks anyway.
May be better to seperate the weirdboyz into three seperate smaller blobs, but that wont really change much. At least if its one blob you can add a single painboy or big mek for FNP or KFF buffs. FNP probably better for the perils rolls.
I'm sure there are ways to play it to minimize losses. I expect someone on here would come up with ways and means, I'm no expert lol.
I doubt it would ever be a top-tier army list, I think we are just trying to come up with ways to make it fun and competitive in friendly games.
Way too much investment for a tactic that is far too unpredictable :( A painboy, maybe. But I wouldn't also add a KFF Mek, even in a leisurely game. Too many points. Far too many.
Melevolence wrote: It would be a novel idea, but I don't know how great the results would be. If I can get my hands on a third Weirdboy and some Daemon models, I'd have no problems running a summoning list to try it out, just for kicks. Though I have a feeling that the results will always be on the extreme end of the scale. You'll either do amazing, or you're keep suffering perils over and over again, risking losing your Weirdboyz or wounding them continuously.
I also think people are forgetting each Weirdboyz' ability stacks, so you get +3 extra charges if each one of them is close to 10+ other 'Ere We Go models. This gives you a potential of either 10 to 15, not 7 to 15. Not a HUGE deal, but an extra 3 Warp Dice could be helpful (or suicidal!)
Though if I were to make the Weirdboyz take something from the Daemon powers, I'd go Santic for the potential buffs over making a naturally hoard based army even more hoardy by summoning Daemons, though it could be fun to summon big demons as opposed to smaller ones if your power rolls work out for the better.
It would only be a horde-y ork army if you ran it as one though. You dont need 10 boyz per weirdboy, so you could have all 3 weirdboyz in one blob of boyz, somewhere relatively safe... This would be about 400 points, which is a pretty large chunk of army true.
But then you can have artillery, warbikes, MANz... pretty much whatever elite style models you want for the rest of your list, as the rest of your hordes will be (hopefully) getting summoned in for free.
Its true though, if you are running a green tide, there's probably not much point in summoning even more hordes... though a few big nasties like unclean ones and the like might be good.
Largely this is the kind of thing I would run for fun though. Make my opponent keep guessing.
Moreso you gain flexibility.
lot of 3+ saves? Send some bloodcrushers with lots of ws5 s5 ap3 attacks
2+ saves? Daemonettes going first with rending or some other big bad daemon
Need that objective that is 12 inches away and no one else can get to it? Summon a unit and run towards it if you scatter (+3 inches to your run ftw)
Dat blob would be ripe for DS destruction or pie plate dropping XD
I'd be happy if my opponent dropped a pie plate on some free daemons instead of my boyz
Edited for a mispelling
I was actually talking about the blob of boyz and Weirdboyz. It's a super idea target that ruins the entire list if it falls, which shouldn't be too difficult since...well...they are Boyz XD
I'm not saying it wouldn't be fun, but blobbing the Weirboyz up only makes it easier to rid the field of them, having 3 20 Boy blobs or something would force them to split forces/gunfire instead of just charging in off a deep strike of forcing YOU to charge, thus denying your abilities to summon (As I don't beleive you can summon while in CC)
Ah OK, my bad. Yeah definitely not ideal to bunch them all up, that's why I like one with backfield grots and one attached to mek gunz.
Yeh, if you were gonna seperate them into 3 boyz blobz, then you wouldnt bother with painboyz as you would need 3 of them. Is a shame to lose the FNP against the inevitable perils, but its not the end of the world. Maybe.
I'm tempted to try and come up with a house rules Ork summoning list. Reduce the perils rolls, but limit the choices. Make it balanced but fun and orky.
Obviously would only be a house-rules friendly game thing with my friends, but would be a laugh to have a few little mobs of squigs running in.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Niiru wrote: Yeh, if you were gonna seperate them into 3 boyz blobz, then you wouldnt bother with painboyz as you would need 3 of them. Is a shame to lose the FNP against the inevitable perils, but its not the end of the world. Maybe.
I'm tempted to try and come up with a house rules Ork summoning list. Reduce the perils rolls, but limit the choices. Make it balanced but fun and orky.
Obviously would only be a house-rules friendly game thing with my friends, but would be a laugh to have a few little mobs of squigs running in.
Problem with this, is grots dont have 'ere we go, so no bonus warp charges.
Problem with this, is grots dont have 'ere we go, so no bonus warp charges.
They just have to be within 12 inches of 10 models with 'ere we go which is really only necessary turn 1 and pretty easy to do as after that Pink horrors should be casting all your powers
Problem with this, is grots dont have 'ere we go, so no bonus warp charges.
They just have to be within 12 inches of 10 models with 'ere we go which is really only necessary turn 1 and pretty easy to do as after that Pink horrors should be casting all your powers
Ahh well see, its things like this that are helpful. This is why I'm no good at this game yet (In fairness to me I only came back a couple weeks ago after an absence of years lol)
I'm looking at the Warhammer fantasy Orcs and Goblins figures... And some of these things would be perfect for an ork summoning list (in my warped mind). Nurgle daemons, and the khorne hounds. The last one is very bloodlettery.
iNcontroL wrote: Summoning is super powerful in general.. Really only kill points is where it's a hindrance. Bring the models and summon every turn you can!
It can be, for anyone not Orks. :p Our low leadership is what really kills it as a potential play style in a serious environment, Most Psykers are rocking L10 while we lowball it at 7, meaning it's SUPER easy for Orks to pooch to the Warp.
As I understand it (from something I have read online so it may be incorrect) when a unit of pink horrors is summoned, they are immediately able to use a psychic power? Although... I guess its too late to add their warp charges to the pool?
edit: oh... I dont think they can summon, as summoning takes place before the deepstrike "phase"... maybe... I'm not sure. They can use witchfires it seems. Not sure how useful that is.
summoned units cannot immediately summon more units. They also do not add any WC to the pool as that part has already passed..
Summoning is good, not powerful- if it was powerful there would be more people running summoning lists than knights/riptides/waveserpents/wraithknights..
Summoning is not so good for armies that have the extra chance to perils. Orks peril a lot summoning, and give our HQ slots contain valuable things like painboyz, meks with kff, or warbosses with lukky stikks is it really worth giving up those spots for a weirdboy that is going to have a good chance to just blow itself up?
Most of the powers require 3 WC, sacrificie lets you summon a herald for 1 WC but causes you to pretty much lose a model, and the herald can't do much until next turn. This would be a decent way to make a Tzeenetch herald farm that would be useful for summoning, but it assumes you get a lot of 'sacrifice' powers. Each weirdboy that is rank 2 psyker will have a ~30% chance to get sacrifice, so assume if you have 6 that 2 of them will get it. If you have 4 or less, you will on average have one with sacrifice.
For a WC 1 power(sacrifice), if you use 2 WC, the chance to roll a double is 1/6.
the chance to roll a double on 5 dice is ~69%. 5 dice averages 2.5 successes, so really you want to roll 6 dice to get a 50% chance to succeed on a WC 3 power. the chance to roll a set of doubles on 6 dice is close to 75%.
so yes you will have a good chance for the power to manifest, but your LD7 psykers will most likely explode on turn 2 from summoning. The failures also will probably either hurt the units they are in, drain your WC for summoning, or just make the psyker lose summoning powers ontop of rapidly losing wounds.
I second the idea of orky daemon models rather than the standard daemon models.
Fluff-wise, it makes sense that any ork-summoned daemons would themselves have an orky theme.
And model-wise, there's so much potential, using mutated ork/orc/goblin/grot models from right through the 40K/WHFB lines. As with any conversions, make an effort to keep your models about the same size as the standard models, and visually a rough match to the relevant daemon's stats.
though i think that converted models are bad ass for the orks, the main reason for summoning demons is that i have always wanted to have the models because i love them and they are awesome sauce. so personally, i would use the standard models.
Yeh I have to admit to liking the standard daemon models too. At least, some of them.
However I've been doing some research, and some of the fantasy orc models (giant squigs, shamans, warboss on wyvers, goblins on giant spiders) are also cool, and very fitting. I may use a mixture.
It wouldn't be much of a hardship to pick one of the gods to replace the models with Orc models, and then use standard daemons for the other gods.
Go for it if you want.
But beware that each time you are summoning Horrors or whatnot according to the primary power, the Weirdboy will suffer a warp attack.
A friend of mine tries this with two CSM Sorcerers and he gave up doing this as it was not effective enough.
wuestenfux wrote: Go for it if you want.
But beware that each time you are summoning Horrors or whatnot according to the primary power, the Weirdboy will suffer a warp attack.
A friend of mine tries this with two CSM Sorcerers and he gave up doing this as it was not effective enough.
What? No... you will only be guaranteed to suffer one warp attack if you roll 7 dice, which you don't actually have to do. It just means you are guaranteed to succeed. The perils table is not in your favour, but the most likely result is that you lose 1 wound... on a 2 wound model that cost 70pts. And you would have summoned a 90pt squad of horrors, which can proceed to summon without any of the perils issues. And your weirdboy is likely to be still alive, and can carry on providing warp charges.
Or you can use your 1 remaining wound, and turn your 70pt weirdboy (that already produced more than its points cost in horrors) into a greater daemon.
Are CSM sorcerers mastery level 3? I would have assumed they would only be level 2, and so wouldn't be producing enough charges with just 2 of them to guarantee a summon.
This is all how I am understanding how this works btw, I may be wrong. But I think you need to be putting out 10+ warp charges consistently to have it work.
wuestenfux wrote: Go for it if you want.
But beware that each time you are summoning Horrors or whatnot according to the primary power, the Weirdboy will suffer a warp attack.
A friend of mine tries this with two CSM Sorcerers and he gave up doing this as it was not effective enough.
What? No... you will only be guaranteed to suffer one warp attack if you roll 7 dice, which you don't actually have to do. It just means you are guaranteed to succeed. The perils table is not in your favour, but the most likely result is that you lose 1 wound... on a 2 wound model that cost 70pts. And you would have summoned a 90pt squad of horrors, which can proceed to summon without any of the perils issues. And your weirdboy is likely to be still alive, and can carry on providing warp charges.
Or you can use your 1 remaining wound, and turn your 70pt weirdboy (that already produced more than its points cost in horrors) into a greater daemon.
Are CSM sorcerers mastery level 3? I would have assumed they would only be level 2, and so wouldn't be producing enough charges with just 2 of them to guarantee a summon.
This is all how I am understanding how this works btw, I may be wrong. But I think you need to be putting out 10+ warp charges consistently to have it work.
A Weirdboy will on average die at turn two after summoning a second unit of Horrors.
Rolling six dice for each summoning will on average suffice.
ah ok, but they'll still produce less powers than 3 weirdboys cos of the waaagh energy rule.
And yeh your weirdboy is probably gonna take a wound in the process of summoning, but as long as the the summoning succeeded (which is almost guaranteed, unless your opponent rolls 6's for deny the witch like the fateweaver himself) then even if the weirdboy dies from an unlucky perils, you still get more points of models on the table than you lost.
This might be harder for a CSM as they cost more (you'd need a level 3, so thats 120pts without any other gear or options), almost the price of two wierdboyz.
A Weirdboy will on average die at turn two after summoning a second unit of Horrors.
Rolling six dice for each summoning will on average suffice.
I'd say an average of gaining two 90 pt units, and losing one 70 pt unit, with a net loss of 1 warp charge (assuming you still had enough boyz in range alive) isn't a bad swap. Besides, on turn two you could cast with the horrors instead, so there would be little chance of a failure perils. Depends on situation of course, like where all the units are at that point, and where you'd want something summoned.
With 3 weirdboyz, having 12 warp charges first turn is average i believe. And so you could have two pink horror squads down. Then next turn, maybe a mastery level 2 herald of tzeentch. Though the orky thing to do might be to risk it all and explode yourself into a giant monstrous killing machine.
Whatever you do, because the weirdboy is so cheap you should at least get your points cost out of it. But theres a chance of getting a lot more than 70pts out of it.
so here is the list i am going to use against my brother as a play testing army for this idea:
i am also play testing a second idea which involves taking looted wagons instead of trucks because of the 11 armour front and side. strength 4 weapons cant damage them anymore, and although they move slightly slower, they are only 12 points more expensive! so im giving it a try.
the concept here is that the 4 vehicles (3 looted wagons and the battlewagon) move forward and screen the 60 pursuing boyz while soaking up the fire and soften up the enemy while the weird boyz spawn units that will hit at the same time as the boyz along side them.
1500 points:
CAD
- weirdboy (in unit of 20 boyz)
- weirdboy (in unit of 20 boyz)
- 3 mega nobz with skorchas and boss pole (in Looted Wagon)
- 10 tank bustas with nob boss pole (in battlewagon)
- 20 boyz with nob, pwr klaw, boss pole
- 20 boyz with nob, pwr klaw, boss pole
- 20 boyz with nob, pwr klaw, boss pole
- battlewagon with ram, killkannon, big shoota
- looted wagon with ram, rokkit launcha
CAD 2
- weirdboy (in unit of 20 boyz)
- 10 boyz with nob, pwr klaw, boss pole (in Looted Wagon)
- 10 boyz with nob, pwr klaw, boss pole (in Looted Wagon)
- 10 gretching, runtherd
- looted wagon with ram, rokkit launcha
- looted wagon with ram, rokkit launcha
please let me know what you think i will post when the battle report is done, i will most likely put it up on you tube
Automatically Appended Next Post: another quick question:
- if i summon daemons, do i still roll for the one eye open rule each turn because they are technically desperate allies?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Another quick question:
- if i summon daemons, do i still roll for the one eye open rule each turn because they are technically desperate allies?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Quick question
- if i summon daemons, do i still roll for the one eye open rule because they are technically desperate allies?
Niiru wrote: Yeh, they are still desperate allies unfortunately
ok, thanks for confirm
Not on the turn they arrive though as you roll at the beginning of the turn
You also ignore the 12" deployment thing, as summoning isn't deploying. So the desperate allies problems shouldn't really come up too often. Just be aware they're there and avoid the situation
On your list, you have an extra HQ slot so I'd try to add a painboy.
On One Eye Open, you should be OK as long as your create the horrors as far away from the unit as possible, and run them if you can.
One big question I have is this: If you cast Sacrifice and create a herald within a unit of boys, what is the new faction of the unit? technically it's mixed Orks & Daemons, but there is no rule as far as I know for "majority faction".
Does the HQ have to leave the unit, or can it stay?
JimOnMars wrote: On your list, you have an extra HQ slot so I'd try to add a painboy.
On One Eye Open, you should be OK as long as your create the horrors as far away from the unit as possible, and run them if you can.
One big question I have is this: If you cast Sacrifice and create a herald within a unit of boys, what is the new faction of the unit? technically it's mixed Orks & Daemons, but there is no rule as far as I know for "majority faction".
Does the HQ have to leave the unit, or can it stay?
The Herald is separate when summoned, which unfortunately makes him a prime target as he is a single model that can be killed fairly easily. Personally I make a disk herald and try to turbo boost him behind some BLOS so that next turn he can join some pink horrors.
BloodyDove wrote: The Herald is separate when summoned, which unfortunately makes him a prime target as he is a single model that can be killed fairly easily. Personally I make a disk herald and try to turbo boost him behind some BLOS so that next turn he can join some pink horrors.
Ah, you're right, it's a new unit. Hopefully he can be ran out of sight and away from OEO.
I just had another fun thought...take divination with heralds and greater daemons...Imagine 30 shoota boys with 'eavy, fnp, and invisibility!
BloodyDove wrote: The Herald is separate when summoned, which unfortunately makes him a prime target as he is a single model that can be killed fairly easily. Personally I make a disk herald and try to turbo boost him behind some BLOS so that next turn he can join some pink horrors.
Ah, you're right, it's a new unit. Hopefully he can be ran out of sight and away from OEO.
I just had another fun thought...take divination with heralds and greater daemons...Imagine 30 shoota boys with 'eavy, fnp, and invisibility!
Unfortunately as they are desperate allies, I dont think they can cast spells on non-friendly units. This would only work for battle-brothers. I think.
I just had another fun thought...take divination with heralds and greater daemons...Imagine 30 shoota boys with 'eavy, fnp, and invisibility!
Unfortunately as they are desperate allies, I dont think they can cast spells on non-friendly units. This would only work for battle-brothers. I think.
Aw dangit, you guyz is ruinin' my planz for galactic dominashun!
I just had another fun thought...take divination with heralds and greater daemons...Imagine 30 shoota boys with 'eavy, fnp, and invisibility!
Unfortunately as they are desperate allies, I dont think they can cast spells on non-friendly units. This would only work for battle-brothers. I think.
Aw dangit, you guyz is ruinin' my planz for galactic dominashun!
To be honest, if you are playing a friendly game for fun, then you should do what I plan to do and "forge a narrative".
If you are fielding Orky demon models, then these orky demons would be battle brothers (from a fluff perspective) as they are not standard chaos demons. So run them as battle brothers.
It wouldn't be particularly overpowered, as you will still be rolling the extra perils due to not being a demon army. In fact it would probably balance the game more.
You wouldnt be able to do this in tournaments or anything but for friendlies, just ask your opponent if its ok due to the "rule of cool" + fluff of your army.
HOWEVER... I would advise against using invisibility. That power is cheap. No-one should ever use it in a friendly game and still expect to have friends. Other than that you should be good to go.
Niiru wrote: To be honest, if you are playing a friendly game for fun, then you should do what I plan to do and "forge a narrative".
If you are fielding Orky demon models, then these orky demons would be battle brothers (from a fluff perspective) as they are not standard chaos demons. So run them as battle brothers.
It wouldn't be particularly overpowered, as you will still be rolling the extra perils due to not being a demon army. In fact it would probably balance the game more.
Barring invisibility, I don't think battle brothers would make all that much of a difference, if you managed your spacing correctly. It would also be quite fluffy without it...I can imagine the ork boyz getting pretty upset by all the squiggly things the weirdboy was creating...It's certainly not a right 'n' propa' way for decent orks to carry on.
Niiru wrote: To be honest, if you are playing a friendly game for fun, then you should do what I plan to do and "forge a narrative".
If you are fielding Orky demon models, then these orky demons would be battle brothers (from a fluff perspective) as they are not standard chaos demons. So run them as battle brothers.
It wouldn't be particularly overpowered, as you will still be rolling the extra perils due to not being a demon army. In fact it would probably balance the game more.
Barring invisibility, I don't think battle brothers would make all that much of a difference, if you managed your spacing correctly. It would also be quite fluffy without it...I can imagine the ork boyz getting pretty upset by all the squiggly things the weirdboy was creating...It's certainly not a right 'n' propa' way for decent orks to carry on.
Probably true. The only change I planned to make to my army list (due to forging narrative etc) is to essentially make a "supplement rule" where the mekaniaks rule (you can take one mek for every HQ in your force) is overwritten by a Warpheadz rule (taking one wierdboy for every HQ in your force.)
I'm running over some of the logistics, but I can't see why it would be unbalanced. I'm not bothering to changed the desperate allies or perils rolls, as they have been covered by my fluff quite nicely anyway.
Niiru wrote: To be honest, if you are playing a friendly game for fun, then you should do what I plan to do and "forge a narrative".
If you are fielding Orky demon models, then these orky demons would be battle brothers (from a fluff perspective) as they are not standard chaos demons. So run them as battle brothers.
It wouldn't be particularly overpowered, as you will still be rolling the extra perils due to not being a demon army. In fact it would probably balance the game more.
Barring invisibility, I don't think battle brothers would make all that much of a difference, if you managed your spacing correctly. It would also be quite fluffy without it...I can imagine the ork boyz getting pretty upset by all the squiggly things the weirdboy was creating...It's certainly not a right 'n' propa' way for decent orks to carry on.
Probably true. The only change I planned to make to my army list (due to forging narrative etc) is to essentially make a "supplement rule" where the mekaniaks rule (you can take one mek for every HQ in your force) is overwritten by a Warpheadz rule (taking one wierdboy for every HQ in your force.)
I'm running over some of the logistics, but I can't see why it would be unbalanced. I'm not bothering to changed the desperate allies or perils rolls, as they have been covered by my fluff quite nicely anyway.
I feel like that is going to get out of hand REALLY fast as meks can really only support/benefit the 1 unit that they are attached to as opposed to weirdboyz which are force multipliers especially if you take daemonology powers. As much as I'd love to do that I feel like I'd be 'ing my opponent to death
Niiru wrote: To be honest, if you are playing a friendly game for fun, then you should do what I plan to do and "forge a narrative".
If you are fielding Orky demon models, then these orky demons would be battle brothers (from a fluff perspective) as they are not standard chaos demons. So run them as battle brothers.
It wouldn't be particularly overpowered, as you will still be rolling the extra perils due to not being a demon army. In fact it would probably balance the game more.
Barring invisibility, I don't think battle brothers would make all that much of a difference, if you managed your spacing correctly. It would also be quite fluffy without it...I can imagine the ork boyz getting pretty upset by all the squiggly things the weirdboy was creating...It's certainly not a right 'n' propa' way for decent orks to carry on.
Probably true. The only change I planned to make to my army list (due to forging narrative etc) is to essentially make a "supplement rule" where the mekaniaks rule (you can take one mek for every HQ in your force) is overwritten by a Warpheadz rule (taking one wierdboy for every HQ in your force.)
I'm running over some of the logistics, but I can't see why it would be unbalanced. I'm not bothering to changed the desperate allies or perils rolls, as they have been covered by my fluff quite nicely anyway.
I feel like that is going to get out of hand REALLY fast as meks can really only support/benefit the 1 unit that they are attached to as opposed to weirdboyz which are force multipliers especially if you take daemonology powers. As much as I'd love to do that I feel like I'd be 'ing my opponent to death
Not sure how... You would only be able to take 2 FOC free warlocks in a standard CAD, or 3 FOC free in a Orks detachment. And the cheapest they can be for mastery 1 is 45pts.
In an eldar list you can take 10 warlocks, that dont take up any FOC slots, for 35pts each. And they can also take daemonology.
So my version is 300-400% less cheesy than a standard official eldar list. And more expensive to field. And Eldar can ignore perils with ghosthelm lol.
The only actual difference it makes in-game, is that I would not need to take the extraneous troops options to field multiple CADs. It's basically a fluffy way of saying "This is unbound, but here's a good reason for it" to a friendly opponent.
Plus, for it to match the theme, I'd have to use a weirdboy as a warlord. So no warboss warlord = no waaaghs. Also Big-Meks wouldn't really fit either. So actually I lose a lot of bonuses, in exchange for one specific 'force multiplier'.
Actually ends up sounding fairer than most of the supplements that have been released so far!
Not sure how... You would only be able to take 2 FOC free warlocks in a standard CAD, or 3 FOC free in a Orks detachment. And the cheapest they can be for mastery 1 is 45pts.
In an eldar list you can take 10 warlocks, that dont take up any FOC slots, for 35pts each. And they can also take daemonology.
So my version is 300-400% less cheesy than a standard official eldar list. And more expensive to field. And Eldar can ignore perils with ghosthelm lol.
The only actual difference it makes in-game, is that I would not need to take the extraneous troops options to field multiple CADs. It's basically a fluffy way of saying "This is unbound, but here's a good reason for it" to a friendly opponent.
Plus, for it to match the theme, I'd have to use a weirdboy as a warlord. So no warboss warlord = no waaaghs. Also Big-Meks wouldn't really fit either. So actually I lose a lot of bonuses, in exchange for one specific 'force multiplier'.
Actually ends up sounding fairer than most of the supplements that have been released so far!
I like the idea, just saying it will probably make as many friends as seer councils do - Edit: if you're going all weidboyz with the summoning powers
Quick Points RE warlocks/eldar:
Ghosthelm only ignores the wound from perils not perils itself and is only on Farseers (e.g. if they roll a 1 on perils they are still potentially screwed as it removes from play).
I've never actually seen someone take Warlocks without bikes so for comparison figure 50pts per 1 ML warlock which is nearly the same as a weirdboy except you'll almost always be getting +1 ML on turn 1 & 2.
You can't actually take warlocks in anything but your primary detachment.
I'd be extremely happy if the warlocks were taking daemonology and not fishing for invis
edit #2: IIRC if you take more than 1 warlock they also have to form a unit and cannot be separated to be attached to other units meaning that you then have to take a lot of them for survivability
Not sure how... You would only be able to take 2 FOC free warlocks in a standard CAD, or 3 FOC free in a Orks detachment. And the cheapest they can be for mastery 1 is 45pts.
In an eldar list you can take 10 warlocks, that dont take up any FOC slots, for 35pts each. And they can also take daemonology.
So my version is 300-400% less cheesy than a standard official eldar list. And more expensive to field. And Eldar can ignore perils with ghosthelm lol.
The only actual difference it makes in-game, is that I would not need to take the extraneous troops options to field multiple CADs. It's basically a fluffy way of saying "This is unbound, but here's a good reason for it" to a friendly opponent.
Plus, for it to match the theme, I'd have to use a weirdboy as a warlord. So no warboss warlord = no waaaghs. Also Big-Meks wouldn't really fit either. So actually I lose a lot of bonuses, in exchange for one specific 'force multiplier'.
Actually ends up sounding fairer than most of the supplements that have been released so far!
I like the idea, just saying it will probably make as many friends as seer councils do - Edit: if you're going all weidboyz with the summoning powers
Quick Points RE warlocks/eldar:
Ghosthelm only ignores the wound from perils not perils itself and is only on Farseers (e.g. if they roll a 1 on perils they are still potentially screwed as it removes from play).
I've never actually seen someone take Warlocks without bikes so for comparison figure 50pts per 1 ML warlock which is nearly the same as a weirdboy except you'll almost always be getting +1 ML on turn 1 & 2.
You can't actually take warlocks in anything but your primary detachment.
I'd be extremely happy if the warlocks were taking daemonology and not fishing for invis
edit #2: IIRC if you take more than 1 warlock they also have to form a unit and cannot be separated to be attached to other units meaning that you then have to take a lot of them for survivability
-Well ok, the ghosthelm thing is only for some of their psykers and not all of them. Still pretty good. The wounds are the most common issue with perils anyway.
-So for 5 points more than a basic weirdboy, you get a warlock + a jetbike? This is still an absolute bargain lol.
-I can make it so the warpheadz rule only works for primary detachment easily enough. I was only planning on running one detachment anyway, that was the point of adding the rule.
-Yeh, daemonology seems a lot less cheesy than invisibility, which orks cant get anyway.
And nope, any warlocks from the 1-10 warlock council can be split off and put into any units you want. Any you dont seperate off, remain with the council.
With mine, all the weirdboyz have to join units, so you can't make a weirdboy-star (which would be rubbish anyway), and also means you need to field units to protect them. I actually think the whole idea will be underpowered (as opposed to if I ran it with an eldar list), just would be a bit of fun. In every respect, its more expensive and less powerful than the eldar equivalent.
BTW I'm only using eldar as an example because they are my old army, and so I have the codex to hand lol. Chaos demons would be even worse I think. Probably the only army that would be worse at this than orks is Tau (they have no psykers, right?) so I'm pretty sure I'm safe on the "being cheesy" front.
edit: Actually, thinking about it from another angle, if I wanted to add in some Squig "counts as" units, they wouldn't *need* to be summoned in, as I could just field them as allies. Would open up more options as what to count them as.
...Except I can't think of any alternatives, other than chaos daemons. Can't think of any other armies that have cavalry, except thunderwolf cavalry and thats a bit of a stretch when it comes to size and points cost. Need cheap gribblies, and cheap cavalry, in the same list as big monster. Daemons is all that seems to work.
But allying them in might be more reliable then attempting summoning shenanigans. But then of course, they dont turn up for free haha.
I've thought of doing something similar. I like the idea of using Grots for bubblewrap, and I think you still get the bonus warp charge off of 10+ Grots (rather than spending points on Boyz). Great idea on the Painboyz and Big Mek. It would be really funny to toss in a Warboss with Da Finkin Kap, and then roll for Infiltrate, and drop a bunch of Weirdboyz close enough to either use their Primaris power, or demon summoning, or even another power (Powervomit, etc). Muahahahaha...
Cleatus wrote: I've thought of doing something similar. I like the idea of using Grots for bubblewrap, and I think you still get the bonus warp charge off of 10+ Grots (rather than spending points on Boyz). Great idea on the Painboyz and Big Mek. It would be really funny to toss in a Warboss with Da Finkin Kap, and then roll for Infiltrate, and drop a bunch of Weirdboyz close enough to either use their Primaris power, or demon summoning, or even another power (Powervomit, etc). Muahahahaha...
Looking forward to your batrep.
Unfortunately, grots dont have the "'ere we go!" rule, and so dont count for the warp charge. Which is a shame.
after looking at daemon spam again, if it were to be made viable I think the best way to do it is to run as many warpheadz as possible.
ideally 4-5.
You overload your chance to get a power off, just have 2 weirdboyz a turn summon so you guarantee you get it, statistically you are going to perils anyways so why not just guarantee you get it +peril anyways?
roll 7-8 dice per attempt with 2 warpheadz a turn.
next turn do the same but use different warpheadz.
this keeps your WC pool high and will prevent models from exploding to perils until turn 4 by which you should have summoned 4 units + any the newly summoned units could summon.
To maximize this, would really need a 3 source list.
blitz brigade
and 2 ork hordes, or ork horde+waaagh detachment, or horde detachment + CAD.
you put 4 squads of 16+ ardboyz into the battlewagons with scout, along with the warpheadz.
first turn move up and disembark all the ardboyz+warpheadz, and then cast. should get you far into the table to summon. Which gives you the option to summon things that can summon more things, or summon things that are an assault threat turn 2.
Can take mekz for the warpheadz so they can eat any possible assaults+challenges should your opponent want to stop your warpheadz.
Big meks with KFF in the units could also allow you to replace ardboyz with boyz.
turn 2 you would be 30 inches into the table, and could summon 12" more inches in, for a 42" threat range, and be setup for a nasty turn 2 charge with summoned units +whatever.
blaktoof wrote: after looking at daemon spam again, if it were to be made viable I think the best way to do it is to run as many warpheadz as possible.
ideally 4-5.
You overload your chance to get a power off, just have 2 weirdboyz a turn summon so you guarantee you get it, statistically you are going to perils anyways so why not just guarantee you get it +peril anyways?
roll 7-8 dice per attempt with 2 warpheadz a turn.
next turn do the same but use different warpheadz.
this keeps your WC pool high and will prevent models from exploding to perils until turn 4 by which you should have summoned 4 units + any the newly summoned units could summon.
To maximize this, would really need a 3 source list.
blitz brigade
and 2 ork hordes, or ork horde+waaagh detachment, or horde detachment + CAD.
you put 4 squads of 16+ ardboyz into the battlewagons with scout, along with the warpheadz.
first turn move up and disembark all the ardboyz+warpheadz, and then cast. should get you far into the table to summon. Which gives you the option to summon things that can summon more things, or summon things that are an assault threat turn 2.
Can take mekz for the warpheadz so they can eat any possible assaults+challenges should your opponent want to stop your warpheadz.
Big meks with KFF in the units could also allow you to replace ardboyz with boyz.
turn 2 you would be 30 inches into the table, and could summon 12" more inches in, for a 42" threat range, and be setup for a nasty turn 2 charge with summoned units +whatever.
After my battle I have to agree with your first idea of having 4-5 warp heads, I used 3 in my game and realised that I could have done with 1 more. I have made another list to make this 4 warp heads, but by only using 2 CADs. I find this sufficient, though I think your idea of scouting 5 battle wagons only to move forward 6 inches, disembark another six and literally spawn daemons on your opponents units is hilarious, I think that perhaps 550+ points worth of battle wagons may not be quite worth it.
Cleatus wrote: I've thought of doing something similar. I like the idea of using Grots for bubblewrap, and I think you still get the bonus warp charge off of 10+ Grots (rather than spending points on Boyz). Great idea on the Painboyz and Big Mek. It would be really funny to toss in a Warboss with Da Finkin Kap, and then roll for Infiltrate, and drop a bunch of Weirdboyz close enough to either use their Primaris power, or demon summoning, or even another power (Powervomit, etc). Muahahahaha...
Looking forward to your batrep.
Unfortunately, grots dont have the "'ere we go!" rule, and so dont count for the warp charge. Which is a shame.
By Mork, you're right. (The Runtherd does get 'ere we go!', oddly). Stupid, weedy Grots.
blaktoof wrote: after looking at daemon spam again, if it were to be made viable I think the best way to do it is to run as many warpheadz as possible.
ideally 4-5.
You overload your chance to get a power off, just have 2 weirdboyz a turn summon so you guarantee you get it, statistically you are going to perils anyways so why not just guarantee you get it +peril anyways?
roll 7-8 dice per attempt with 2 warpheadz a turn.
next turn do the same but use different warpheadz.
this keeps your WC pool high and will prevent models from exploding to perils until turn 4 by which you should have summoned 4 units + any the newly summoned units could summon.
To maximize this, would really need a 3 source list.
blitz brigade
and 2 ork hordes, or ork horde+waaagh detachment, or horde detachment + CAD.
you put 4 squads of 16+ ardboyz into the battlewagons with scout, along with the warpheadz.
first turn move up and disembark all the ardboyz+warpheadz, and then cast. should get you far into the table to summon. Which gives you the option to summon things that can summon more things, or summon things that are an assault threat turn 2.
Can take mekz for the warpheadz so they can eat any possible assaults+challenges should your opponent want to stop your warpheadz.
Big meks with KFF in the units could also allow you to replace ardboyz with boyz.
turn 2 you would be 30 inches into the table, and could summon 12" more inches in, for a 42" threat range, and be setup for a nasty turn 2 charge with summoned units +whatever.
After my battle I have to agree with your first idea of having 4-5 warp heads, I used 3 in my game and realised that I could have done with 1 more. I have made another list to make this 4 warp heads, but by only using 2 CADs. I find this sufficient, though I think your idea of scouting 5 battle wagons only to move forward 6 inches, disembark another six and literally spawn daemons on your opponents units is hilarious, I think that perhaps 550+ points worth of battle wagons may not be quite worth it.
His idea? I had this idea on page 1. Even had the points for the final cost. Although I didn't make them all 'ard boyz. That would add up fast.
I want to paint up fantasy savage orcs as ghosts. So fluff wise I summon ork spirits/ghosts to fight. That way I can say they count as the demons I need them to be. And use savage orc boar boyz or trolls as the bigger demons.
Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote: I want to paint up fantasy savage orcs as ghosts. So fluff wise I summon ork spirits/ghosts to fight. That way I can say they count as the demons I need them to be. And use savage orc boar boyz or trolls as the bigger demons.
HAHA! I was going to just paint the squigs and fantasy orcs normally, but making them ghostly is a good idea lol. Maybe paint them white/grey. Zombie orcs. Ha.
so after a lot of faffing around..... HERE IS THE BATTLE REPORT
sorry, i had taken pictures but i cant seem to upload them as the files are too big, i tried making a video to put on you tube using the pics and just recording a voice over but that didn't work either, had lots of trouble with the software etc. ANYWAY, i will have to just do batreps with a video camera from now on to make it easier.
3 weirdboyz (warphead upgrades)
3 units of 20 boyz boss pole pwr klaw
2 lots of 10 boyz nob pk and bp in looted wagon with rockit and ram
3 maga nobz with knobi skorcha in looted wagon with rockit and ram
10 tank bustas in a battlewagon with big shoota, killkannon, ram
10 gretchin
and yes, i am using looted wagons so that strength 4 pot shots cant wreck my vehicles
Eldar:
(not 100% sure of the details of equipment)
farseer on jet bike
the avatar
2 lots of 8 dire avengers
fire prism
8 fire dragons in wave serpent
wraithlord
wraithknight
we are playing the maelstrom mission cloak and daggers
Nigh fighting on first turn
Eldar:
warlord trait: Ambush of blades: on a turn, re roll wounds
Powers: Guide, doom, fortune, Erdrich storm
Orks:
Warlord trait: Conqueror of cities: move through cover in ruins and stealth(ruins)
weirdboy powers:
Cursed earth, incursion
Cursed earth, internal gaze
Infernal gaze, incursion
so yes, i got no 6 for the greater daemon (75% chance of getting at least one 6), so i have already mad eit hard for myself, lets see what we can do...
orks deploy and go first
Turn 1 orks:
- Move up (conga line back to my own edge for a victory point)
- got 13 dice in psychic and summoned 3 blood crushers on left flank (killa kans proxy) then lost power with perils roll of a 2!! very unlucky
- other weirdboy failed to summon, and lost primaris (another roll of a 2) again, very unlucky
Turn 1 Eldar:
-moved around
- guide fire prism, failed fortune
- 2 hulls to LW -wreck another LW - imobalised and 1 hull to last LW All would be wreck if i had used trucks
- killed 1 bloodcrusher with dire avengers
-wraithknight charges and explodes LW with maganobz inside
Orks turn 2:
- move up
- spawned 10 bloodletters on left flank and weirdboy rolled 1 on the perils table, so he died. yet more horrific rolling (proxied by easterlings)
- meganobz wipe out avengers with skorchas
- killkannon scatter perfectly onto fire dragons and kills 2
- wound knight once with tank bustas
- multicharge eldar farseer and fire dragons with boyz
-kill far seer and then get chaced down by fire dragons (but gain 2 tactical objectives from killing him)
- kill most dire avengers when bloodcrushers charge
- wound knight once when other unit of boyz and a unit with a weirdboy charge him
Eldar turn 2
- move up
- fire everything at meganobz and kill 2
-kill 5 blood letters with fire prism and 3 boyz
- wreck last LW - 1 more wound on knight happens in combat and the avatar charges the bloodcrushers but that combat is stagnant
Orks turn 3
- move up
- summon 10 Nurgle plague bearers on left flank (proxied by easterlings)
- tank bustas kill 3 fire dragons with shooting and fail charge
- lone meganobz charges and kills wave serpent
- avatar wins combat and boyz fail leadership and get run down by the avatar who also finished off the bloodcrushers
- another wound to wraithknight
Eldar turn 3
- wraithlord burns tank bustas who are then charged by him and get overrun
- fire dragons shoot and kill meganobz
- fire prism kills 2 plague bearers
- yet another lone wound on wraithknight from 2 power klaws (was very lucky with his 5+ inv)
Orks turn 4
- perils and die on spawning bloodletters and fail to cast it on 8 dice (only 1 weird boy left)
- kill wraithlord in combat with boyz
- do another wound to knight
- plague bearers tie avatar up in combat
Eldar turn 4
- shot and did nothing
- Wraith knight died
- avatar killed a plague bearer
Orks turn 5
- moved up
- killed a fire dragon with shooting as they retreated backwards with killkannon
Eldar turn 5
- moved around (he only has avatar, fire prism and 2 fire dragons left)
- killed 3 boyz
- killed 4 plague bearers
Orks turn 6
- summon 10 blood letters (proxied by easterlings)
- killed last 2 fire dragons with killkannon
Eldar turn 6
- Shot and killed 2 blood letters
- killed another plaguebearer
the game then ended and orks WON 11-3!
as you may have noticed, my rolling with the weird boyz was appalling, but it did not matter because i still managed to spawn over 400 points of daemons with my 210 points of weird boyz! i was able to reinforce wherever i wanted (choosing to tie up the avatar and wipe out a squad of dire avengers on the left flank and captured a couple of points with the daemons. I did unfortunately roll the one eye open a the only time i was required to roll on it, which was very unlucky. Again, despite rolling terribly and not even being able to summon a GUO, the orks still came out on top.
In the future i will be using 4 weird boyz to increase the chances of me getting a 6 on the powers table. i will have to remember to run my units as soon as they deep strike, which i forgot to do, and to also summon them further away from the weird boyz.
PHEW!
after 3 pages of reading finished up with a bat rep I got a little excited...
I've been pondering this style list for a little while too! primarily because there is just so much conversion madness to be had here its unbearable!
I think im gona have to go truely mad and give it a go when I can.
I mean I think im just gona glue some really really random bits together (choppas, arms, many many many ork heads, bits of sprue) then with a little GS magic make them into shambling horrors! Then I can sorta proxy them as whichever unit I fancy while I make more specific ones up I may get a prototype in later.
As for tactics...
I would think the overall idea of;
running multiple CAD's at minimum cost to get those weirdboys and a couple grot mobs.
Then run your standard list
As in reality, it is quite* cheap; *as in pretty darn cheap. That you can use this block of 3 warpheads and grots to throw into any list. Yes its totally dicey, yes its likely to in some games be very lack luster.... but if you haven't got a chancy list then you ain't orky enuff!
Man, that's hilarious! You got to make one wierdboy look like (or have a model of) Zogworth! That's what his mad waaagh! probably looks like by this time. They've all gone nuts and run around summoning daemons.
A daemon that you've just summoned, can you charge with it on that same turn?
If so, get the battlewagon formation, scout, disembark the weirdboy, summon a deamon and then charge with said daemon. Would that actually work?
You can't. They enter via deepstrike.
Automatically Appended Next Post: BTW. Don't forget that when you generate +1 warp charge with a wierdboy due to his special rule, you got to take a s2 ap2 hit if the wierdboy didn't manage to cast anything this turn. And not all of them are summoning stuff. So, extra wounds for them on a 6
A daemon that you've just summoned, can you charge with it on that same turn?
If so, get the battlewagon formation, scout, disembark the weirdboy, summon a deamon and then charge with said daemon. Would that actually work?
I don't think you can, as the summon (I think) behaves like a DS. However, scouting, disembarking and summoning still seems pretty darn viable, as you've basically plopped down another unit right in your enemies face, choice then becomes do you attempt to kill the summoner or the throw-away unit that is about to get stuck into you.
What units do you guys recommend as being the most useful units to summon with orks?
Turn 1; Horrors? Adds a few extra dice to the pool? But they can't cast the turn they arrive i assume?
Plaguebearers? Pretty good as sorta tarpit/tough units you can throw into the nasty combats while you use your orks to deal with the rest of the army?
Im sure all of them are better in certain circumstances, but whats your overall thoughts on the units and the greater deamons?
Pink horrors are great for generating warp charges and summoning units instead of wierdboyz themselves. Besides, they get rerolls of 1-s for saving throws, so if you manage to g2g somewhere behind cover, the guyz are outstandingly durablethis way.
Daemonettes are probably the best unit for an emidiate bauble wrap or point grab. Being slaanesh daemons, they get +3 to run moves and daemons can run emidiately after getting summoned. They have lots of high ini rending attacks too.
Plaguebearers have t4 and shrowded. Can glance any vehicle on a 6.
Mmm,
so it seems generally pink horrors would work well in the first couple turns, with the added dice and the ability to move your summoning onto another unit, not to mention being durable like you said.
I think potentially after the first couple turns i'd be looking to summon some other units, daemonettes do seem quite nice, the high ini attacks would work well in combo with the boyz weight of attacks. Thin the crowd first to minimise boyz lost then finish up with your 40 dice Gona have to go take a looky at the daemons dex!
A daemon that you've just summoned, can you charge with it on that same turn?
If so, get the battlewagon formation, scout, disembark the weirdboy, summon a deamon and then charge with said daemon. Would that actually work?
I don't think you can, as the summon (I think) behaves like a DS. However, scouting, disembarking and summoning still seems pretty darn viable, as you've basically plopped down another unit right in your enemies face, choice then becomes do you attempt to kill the summoner or the throw-away unit that is about to get stuck into you.
What units do you guys recommend as being the most useful units to summon with orks?
Turn 1; Horrors? Adds a few extra dice to the pool? But they can't cast the turn they arrive i assume?
Plaguebearers? Pretty good as sorta tarpit/tough units you can throw into the nasty combats while you use your orks to deal with the rest of the army?
Im sure all of them are better in certain circumstances, but whats your overall thoughts on the units and the greater deamons?
Turn 1 & 2 - Pink horror squad & if possible herald of on a disk (have your pink horrors cast spells and your weirdboyz are just warp charge batteries starting turn 2). have the pink horror squad go to ground in ruins for a 3+ re-rolling 1s cover save (if you're lucky on an objective)
Turn 3 - you should have gotten possession and/or incursion by now so a great unclean one midfield or enemy's backfield and if not use incursion to make bloodcrushers (if facing MEQ) or plague drones (for most everything else)
turn 4 - prep for end game by summoning whatever you need to. Daemonettes to run to a far away objective, bloodletters to kill those remaining marines, plaguebearers to glance a vehicle to death, pink horrors if your warp charges are getting low, or greater daemons for the lulz
As far as greater daemons a bloodthirster is a trap as they aren't really useful for 2 turns (swooping monstrous create deepstrikes as swooping, then must go into glide mode, then can assault). Lord of change is good but you already have a good # of warp charges from pink horrors/weirdboyz. Great Unclean One is usually my go-to as he soaks a lot of damage, is a big scary threat if you DS'd him midfield or in the enemy's backfield, and can be in cover for a good save thanks to shrouded
Edit:
If you're about to be charged by something nasty like TWC a great idea is to summon Daemonettes, doing this repeatedly is both funny and helpful since a very expensive squad must keep wasting its attacks on free daemons. Just remember to run them (+3 inches) so that you can spread the out
I definitely plan on! As with my orks I like to model units to either be usable as multiple units (IE, most of my vehicles magnetise to be BW's, LW's, trukks or whatever else I was able to magnetise).
So khorne herald; Ork warboss with relic axe, il make him nice and beefy, perhaps paint him red skinned, or maybe il try the glue and red ink blood technique and literally coat him in blood. Pink horrors; I currently have no shoota boyz which sucks, so im thinking of conversions so they look like daemonic shoota boyz but pink skinned Daemonettes; just girly lookin' orks with pincer arms!! choppa boyz when needed.
You get the jist Plus! I can make a really fat ork! as a GUO but also counts as defdread for when im running pure ork! nomnomnomnomnomnom multi use goodness!
I think i'll add this as a secondary CAD, consisting of 2 grot units and as many warpheads as possible, then i'll just throw them forward with my list, using my normal list as the core, but with this super annoying set of grots that spawn chaos entities. That way its sorta similar to a MANz missile, cheap, but seriously needs dealing with, as potentially some big baddies are gona be popping up soon!
I plan on using warhammer fantasy orcs/goblins models, jyst so its easy to differentiate the orks from the daemons, though giving the orks red skin is also a cool idea.
Goblin riding giant spider as a great unclean one maybe, or you could use one of the troll figures. Or a warboss riding a giant cave squig. I believe these all use the same base size.
Bloodcrushers could be the black orc boar riders, which can also be used for warbikes (maybe paint thrm snakebite colours).
Theres a bunch of options, would be a fun conversion and painting project.
For horrors im thinking goblin shamans (shamen?) As they show wysiwyg "magic squad" better than shoota boyz imo
Via Formation:
A, B and C = Battlewagon + Ram + 1 Rokkits = 120pt each
D = Battlewagon + Ram + 2 Rokkits = 125pts
E = Battlewagon + Ram + 3 Rokkits = 130pts
Total: 1849pts (ish???)
While the Gretchin don't have the "ere we go" rule for the added warp point, if you unload the Weirdboys within range of the Boyz mobs, then they should get the bonus.
The idea is to scout forward on the first turn, disembark, behind the Battlewagons and use them as cover for summoning stuff.
This means you've scouted really powerful threats (like the greater unclean one) or tarpits (like daemonettes) really close.
Via Formation:
A, B and C = Battlewagon + Ram + 1 Rokkits = 120pt each
D = Battlewagon + Ram + 2 Rokkits = 125pts
E = Battlewagon + Ram + 3 Rokkits = 130pts
Total: 1849pts (ish???)
While the Gretchin don't have the "ere we go" rule for the added warp point, if you unload the Weirdboys within range of the Boyz mobs, then they should get the bonus.
The idea is to scout forward on the first turn, disembark, behind the Battlewagons and use them as cover for summoning stuff.
This means you've scouted really powerful threats (like the greater unclean one) or tarpits (like daemonettes) really close.
Yay or nae?
It could work well. How well the game goes will probably be heavily reliant on how you allocate your WC dice turn 1 (e.g. gotta watch out for screwing yourself over by not allocating enough dice to each power). I'm quite interested to see how a test game with that list would pan out
As per the FAQ/Errata astra militarum can actually summon demons too now. A wyrdvane psyker squad can provide ablative perils protection, and you can get loads of warp dice through sanctioned psykers and allied psyker inquisitors with 3 units of two acolytes and a henchman psyker.
That could give you pretty nice control over the midfield while your artillery and/or gunlines keep shelling your opponent from long range.
kodi wrote: As per the FAQ/Errata astra militarum can actually summon demons too now. A wyrdvane psyker squad can provide ablative perils protection, and you can get loads of warp dice through sanctioned psykers and allied psyker inquisitors with 3 units of two acolytes and a henchman psyker.
That could give you pretty nice control over the midfield while your artillery and/or gunlines keep shelling your opponent from long range.
Are you talking ork-free? Or with taking AM as allies in order to boost warp dice?
If going the AM allies route you could really push the artlillery idea; So your AM psycher-fest, with as much artlillery as possible, Then load up on weirdboys/ big meks with SAG (if you dont need the warp dice or an ork caster - depends who'd you preferred did the summoning), stick in some grot meat shields and pile in the mek gunz! I mean the cheap ork mek gunz alongside the AM artillery with the meat shields and your constant summoning meat shields could be nasty. I mean lobbas are sooo diiiiirt cheap you could just hammer in those S5 blasts all day. Not to mention the fact that the AM can bring some of the larger blasts, while the orks bring the mass 35 pts plasma cannons.
Could be hilariously fun for an ork defensive style. maybe hide in a couple cheap MANz squads as cheap as possible, simply their to jump into any combats that the grots/guard are struggling with.
'ing my opponent to death
