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Post by: mitch_rifle
Rather than let every single 40k rumours thread get clogged with sisters talk can we please make this the offical sisters of battle argument thread?
Personally im a yay as i think the more diversity the better in the 40k game
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Post by: Exalbaru
I'm a yay because I already have spent so much on sisters models that I dont want to not have the option to play them.
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Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim
Squatting SoB would be such an act of poor faith on the part of a GW who already has a mediocre rep as a price-gouging, anti-consumer bunch, that I feel like even they know it isn't something they can do.
I feel like the next six months will be incredibly telling though. A new Codex and/or kits being released will either happen soon, or they will just let SoB languish forever as a barely-supported, but not officially killed-off, faction.
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Post by: ClockworkZion
The only nays I've ever seen were people who didn't "get" Sisters.
So naturally I'm a "yay". Automatically Appended Next Post: NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:Squatting SoB would be such an act of poor faith on the part of a GW who already has a mediocre rep as a price-gouging, anti-consumer bunch, that I feel like even they know it isn't something they can do.
I feel like the next six months will be incredibly telling though. A new Codex and/or kits being released will either happen soon, or they will just let SoB languish forever as a barely-supported, but not officially killed-off, faction.
Frankly I'm at the point were if they're going to kill the army they need to either do it, or update it already. This half-assed inbetween nonsense is hurting their player base more than killing it straight out could.
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Post by: Wonderwolf
Criteria for this question seem a bit vague.
- Do I believe a nicely made Sisters release (Codex, Plastics, etc..) would be a good thing? Yay.
- Do I believe it will happen in the foreseeable future (e.g. next 12 months or so)? Nay.
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Post by: AllSeeingSkink
Yay or nay for what? If you're going to create a thread to move discussion from other threads you need to put a bit more effort in for the benefit of those of us who weren't following those other threads 
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Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim
 ClockworkZion wrote:The only nays I've ever seen were people who didn't "get" Sisters.
So naturally I'm a "yay".
Automatically Appended Next Post:
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:Squatting SoB would be such an act of poor faith on the part of a GW who already has a mediocre rep as a price-gouging, anti-consumer bunch, that I feel like even they know it isn't something they can do.
I feel like the next six months will be incredibly telling though. A new Codex and/or kits being released will either happen soon, or they will just let SoB languish forever as a barely-supported, but not officially killed-off, faction.
Frankly I'm at the point were if they're going to kill the army they need to either do it, or update it already. This half-assed inbetween nonsense is hurting their player base more than killing it straight out could.
Oh, I agree fully, I just don't think GW has the balls to put SoB players out of their misery, which is a damn shame.
The wife and I just spent $500 on SoB as a self-contained army, and also to be the "missing half" of my Grey Knights... and you know what? It is offensive to my player sensibilities that SoB don't have a proper Codex but GK do. My GK is even less fleshed out and thought-through than the SoB Digital-Dex, and yet it got a full release. Insane.
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Post by: Davor
This will never be "official"  . Hell this won't even be "unofficial" since the battles will still go on in other threads, even when it's not about SoB.
I say yeah, it will happen one day. Maybe like my beloved Toronto Maple Leafs winning the Stanley Cup, maybe not in my lifetime, but yeah it should happen one day.
Or hell freezes over. Then again Leafs will win the Cup when that happens.
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Post by: EVIL INC
They are a big part of the fluff. They have a large following and larger number of fans. GW would make a killing on promoting them and producing plastics of them.
Will GW see this and follow up on it? I doubt it.
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Post by: Kangodo
Didn't Sisters of Battle get a digital Codex in 2014?
It has Relics, Formations and Warlord Traits.
It is quite an awesome eBook.
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Post by: Davor
EVIL INC wrote:They are a big part of the fluff. They have a large following and larger number of fans. GW would make a killing on promoting them and producing plastics of them.
Will GW see this and follow up on it? I doubt it.
There is the problem. Promoting. GW doesn't do any promoting.
Kangodo wrote:Didn't Sisters of Battle get a digital Codex in 2014?
It has Relics, Formations and Warlord Traits.
It is quite an awesome eBook.
First time I read that it's an awesome eBook. I keep reading complaining or saying it's sub par. Never excellent or fun.
Sadly if plastic Sisters ever do come out, I am sure it would have been better to stat them years ago since it will be cheaper to buy them in metal than it is in plastic. Sisters will not take off because only the die hards will be willing to pay the premium price GW will be charging for Sisters when they are released.
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Post by: Tamwulf
We are getting a Harlequin codex with new models, and we got three more armies from out of nowhere, Imperial Knights, Militarum Tempestus, and Crimson Slaughter, all with new models. There is no reason why GW can't make a Sisters of Battle Codex.
The question I would imagine GW is asking is, "How much can we make from a Sisters of Battle remake?"
I'm pretty sure Militarum Tempestus was a lukewarm release at best. I don't think I've ever even seen one fielded- but that's just anecdotal evidence, as my local play group is only about 50 players or so. I don't have the market numbers GW has. On the other hand, Imperial Knights has been a great success based on how many lists on the interwebs and local players I've seen with a Knight in them. I've seen more Crimson Slaughter armies then Chaos armies. Once again, anecdotal evidence suggests Crimson Slaughter is more popular/out selling regular Chaos armies.
If the Harlequin codex does well, and I'm pretty sure it will even if it's a craptastic pile of poo, then we'll see a Adepta Soroitas codex by the end of the year.
Consider- there have long been rumors of plastic Sisters for a while now. They have at least three Rhino chasis tanks, HQ's, Saraphim fast attacks, which are pretty iconic, Elites, Heavy Support, it's a no brainer that Saint Celestine would be a Lord of War choice- could they use a little more? Sure, but when you really look at it, the Sisters of Battle have a more fully fledged order of battle then the Grey Knights!
It's not really a matter of IF GW will make a new codex for them, but WHEN GW will make a new Codex for them.
I have faith in this, even when GW gives me no reason to have faith. But isn't that what faith is? The belief in something when all logic and reason says it shouldn't exist?
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Post by: Sigvatr
I see what you did there. Well played.
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Post by: wuestenfux
GW may think that SoB is not worth the effort.
A new Marine codex and Marine miniature releases would sell much better.
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Post by: Tamwulf
 wuestenfux wrote:GW may think that SoB is not worth the effort.
A new Marine codex and Marine miniature releases would sell much better.
I was trying to show that the work is pretty much done. New models? Check (there have long been rumors of new plastic SoB's completed and waiting for production from GW). Art work? GW is pretty much recycling all the art work these days, and units are now being shot with actual models and not artwork. That leaves the rules- and GW could crank those out in a weekend over a couple pints (which is probably how they make a lot of the rules these days...). Layout is nothing- they have a ton of fluff to work off already, they take some snapshots of the new models, throw in some recycled artwork, and Bob is your Uncle. They could probably announce the army tomorrow, and by the end of the week, have full production going.
I doubt we will see a new Space Marine codex this year. Probably early 2016- but 8th edition will probably roll out in 2016, so new Space Marine codex will be second half of 2016.
GW has pretty much exhausted the Space Marine model line unless they start expanding into Forge World territory. Then again, GW could surprise us with something new- like they did with the Centurions (shudder).
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Post by: Chaos Companion
 Tamwulf wrote:We are getting a Harlequin codex with new models, and we got three more armies from out of nowhere, Imperial Knights, Militarum Tempestus, and Crimson Slaughter, all with new models. There is no reason why GW can't make a Sisters of Battle Codex.
The question I would imagine GW is asking is, "How much can we make from a Sisters of Battle remake?"
I'm pretty sure Militarum Tempestus was a lukewarm release at best. I don't think I've ever even seen one fielded- but that's just anecdotal evidence, as my local play group is only about 50 players or so. I don't have the market numbers GW has. On the other hand, Imperial Knights has been a great success based on how many lists on the interwebs and local players I've seen with a Knight in them. I've seen more Crimson Slaughter armies then Chaos armies. Once again, anecdotal evidence suggests Crimson Slaughter is more popular/out selling regular Chaos armies.
If the Harlequin codex does well, and I'm pretty sure it will even if it's a craptastic pile of poo, then we'll see a Adepta Soroitas codex by the end of the year.
Consider- there have long been rumors of plastic Sisters for a while now. They have at least three Rhino chasis tanks, HQ's, Saraphim fast attacks, which are pretty iconic, Elites, Heavy Support, it's a no brainer that Saint Celestine would be a Lord of War choice- could they use a little more? Sure, but when you really look at it, the Sisters of Battle have a more fully fledged order of battle then the Grey Knights!
It's not really a matter of IF GW will make a new codex for them, but WHEN GW will make a new Codex for them.
I have faith in this, even when GW gives me no reason to have faith. But isn't that what faith is? The belief in something when all logic and reason says it shouldn't exist?
I think that GW will show the sisters some love eventually. Remember that Dark Eldar sat around in obscurity forever as well.
Also, as a clarification Crimson Slaughter is not a stand-alone army, and it got no model release. It's a supplement just like the Black Legion one, and the Tau Farsight Enclaves, etc. It happens to be popular because it actually makes a few extra units somewhat viable, and also has better artifact options. Chaos players are playing "supported Legions"; the vast majority of us (from my personal experience and forum reading) don't give two sh*** about Crimson Slaughter, they just happen to be the best book to play the army. CSM players want legion representation, not Crimson Slaughter.
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Post by: ClockworkZion
Not really. The formations are Apoc only (and aren't that good), they nerfed AoF, nerfed Repentia, removed Kyrinov as a character, and have yet to fix Celestians, Penitent Engines or the Canoness. We still only have one HQ choice and what makes a good army list really hasn't changed since 3rd save for Immolators being less useful (no fire points and the heavy flamer can only move 6" and fire).
Oh and the Canoness can only take 1 relic, but a Diagolus can take as many as she wants.
Seriously, it's not a good rule set. The art is nice though and the fluff is decent.
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Post by: generalchaos34
I have some hope for the Sisters.
I think this because they have some super kick ass fluff in the new Leviathan book, and there is a "rumored" necron combo box coming from GW later this year. My hope is that this is a Sisters/Necron Sanctuary 101 type thing. It would also help GW determine whether or not to release a sisters line of new sculpts by testing the water with a limited release, but it will also serve to heavily propagate small squads of sisters into peoples collections, making them even more likely to go out and expand on that army, or at least buy the codex.
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Post by: Sigvatr
Hm. It comes down to what you want, though. I, for once, would prefer for my army to not be as strong if the fluff was good and not butchered.
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Post by: Furyou Miko
I disagree, I love the eCodex. Yes, it has its problems, but so do all codices. Saying that the whole book is rubbish because of a weak Elites section is like saying that codex: Space Marines is worthless because Terminators and Vanguard Veterans are bad.
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Post by: Spetulhu
Kangodo wrote:Didn't Sisters of Battle get a digital Codex in 2014? It is quite an awesome eBook.
I agree, my SoB are deadly with it. But why isn't the thing available in paper? I'd rather have a real paper book (same length and width as my rulebook) than have to drag my pad around or check the Codex on my android phone.
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Post by: generalchaos34
 Sigvatr wrote:Hm. It comes down to what you want, though. I, for once, would prefer for my army to not be as strong if the fluff was good and not butchered.
I think statwise and rules wise they are in an OK place. Sisters just need some tweaks and probably a few more units to pick from (something like scouts maybe? or a sister version of Scions, they are trained at the same scholas!) Definitely make penitent engines better walkers or MCs. Also give sisters access to some things they deserve, like a flyer (avenger anyone?!) and maybe stuff like predators. Even better, maybe something like the Devil Dog or Knight Errant's melta cannon in a rhino or pred chassis would go a long way to stay fluffy but make them more interesting and variable.
And land raiders, sisters need them some land raider love for their repentia.
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Post by: ClockworkZion
 generalchaos34 wrote:I have some hope for the Sisters.
I think this because they have some super kick ass fluff in the new Leviathan book, and there is a "rumored" necron combo box coming from GW later this year. My hope is that this is a Sisters/Necron Sanctuary 101 type thing. It would also help GW determine whether or not to release a sisters line of new sculpts by testing the water with a limited release, but it will also serve to heavily propagate small squads of sisters into peoples collections, making them even more likely to go out and expand on that army, or at least buy the codex.
Snap fit Sisters would solve their sculpting issues while putting them in plastic. It would be the best way to test the waters for sure.
Sadly I don't think it'll be happening. :( Automatically Appended Next Post:  Furyou Miko wrote:I disagree, I love the eCodex. Yes, it has its problems, but so do all codices. Saying that the whole book is rubbish because of a weak Elites section is like saying that codex: Space Marines is worthless because Terminators and Vanguard Veterans are bad.
The thing is other books have a deeper selection of units to draw from which solves the issue of a unit in a section sucking. Sisters don't have that depth which is why the codex is in a worse position.
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Post by: The Imperial Answer
I'm a fan of all factions (some more than others) so I have to say "Yay". Each one brings something unique to the table.
But they aren't going to scrap the sisters. If they did that they'd have to re-write some of the Imperium's history such as the Age of Apostasy.
Also the last time they scrapped an army (squats for 40k and chaos dwarves for fantasy) I heard the back-lash was quite severe from the player base. If that is true then they will be hesitant to do it again (which would also be killing some of their revenue. GW is a business, they like money after all).
But it does seem to me like GW is trying to reduce the sisters to a support army like the Tempestus Scions and Inquisition, that is they function well on their own but they work even better with allies to fill any gaps or areas they will be lacking in (preferably imperial allies given the way the allies matrix falls).
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Post by: Spetulhu
ClockworkZion wrote:The thing is other books have a deeper selection of units to draw from which solves the issue of a unit in a section sucking. Sisters don't have that depth which is why the codex is in a worse position.
On the other hand it does have kick-ass units to use. Basic battle sister squads are incredible for their price, and no one is going to say Dominions, Seraphim or Exorcists aren't good. The downside is anyone familiar with them knows what you'll bring, be it a friendly match or a tournament.
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Post by: ClockworkZion
Spetulhu wrote: ClockworkZion wrote:The thing is other books have a deeper selection of units to draw from which solves the issue of a unit in a section sucking. Sisters don't have that depth which is why the codex is in a worse position.
On the other hand it does have kick-ass units to use. Basic battle sister squads are incredible for their price, and no one is going to say Dominions, Seraphim or Exorcists aren't good. The downside is anyone familiar with them knows what you'll bring, be it a friendly match or a tournament.
Battle Sisters are over priced by at least 2ppm. And they lack any sort of bonus for taking more than 10 models (namely extra weapon options at 15 and 20).
Sisters also lack any sort of access to a kind of pie plate or blast weapon which makes some kind of armies are a really bad match up because of it (Guard and Tau are especially a pain because of it). I'm all for the fluff of the army and the weapon restriction, but something needs to be done to honor that fluff while adding in some kind of way to mitigate how poorly the army deals with armies that can bring more bodies than the Sisters can.
I'm not saying you can't have fun with Sisters, but at the same time there is a lot that can bring that enjoyment down.
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Post by: Furyou Miko
If they did drop the Sisters, it would be in a way that leaves them available in the background material, but simply unsupported on the tabletop, putting them in a position similar to that of the Adeptus Mechanicus or the Custodes.
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Post by: ClockworkZion
Furyou Miko wrote:If they did drop the Sisters, it would be in a way that leaves them available in the background material, but simply unsupported on the tabletop, putting them in a position similar to that of the Adeptus Mechanicus or the Custodes.
True, but they may be bringing Mechanicus back as a mini-dex (which would be the first time they've had rules since 2nd ed IIRC).
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Post by: thegreatchimp
Yea. They're great models, that slim power armour allows for a totally different look to marines. I wish I could say the same about their armoury -apart from the odd chainsaw wielding priest its mostly just bolters, flamers and meltas. That puts me off them a bit. I don't much like the look of exorcists or penitent engines either.
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Post by: Knockagh
generalchaos34 wrote:I have some hope for the Sisters.
I think this because they have some super kick ass fluff in the new Leviathan book, and there is a "rumored" necron combo box coming from GW later this year. My hope is that this is a Sisters/Necron Sanctuary 101 type thing. It would also help GW determine whether or not to release a sisters line of new sculpts by testing the water with a limited release, but it will also serve to heavily propagate small squads of sisters into peoples collections, making them even more likely to go out and expand on that army, or at least buy the codex.
Please please GW release a sanctuary 101 box set , it would be awesome. One of my favorite stories, some nice scenery included would be a bonus.....would be an interesting twist to a space hulk type game, add some additional life into an already popular specialist game.
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Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Furyou Miko wrote:I disagree, I love the eCodex. Yes, it has its problems, but so do all codices. Saying that the whole book is rubbish because of a weak Elites section is like saying that codex: Space Marines is worthless because Terminators and Vanguard Veterans are bad.
The thing is other books have a deeper selection of units to draw from which solves the issue of a unit in a section sucking. Sisters don't have that depth which is why the codex is in a worse position.
See, I would argue Grey Knights are even MORE monobuild, and similarly only have three stand-out units (Dread Knights, Purifiers, and Librarian, so even fewer "good" options than SoB), and yet we got a full book release.
No... this just feels like GW being random and capricious. SoB are literally as complete or better than the state GK find themselves in, but are treated even more poorly in terms of release support.
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Post by: the_Armyman
Although every rumor thread gets hijacked by SoB chatter, every SoB thread eventually gets hijacked by misogyny/why-do-we-have-boobplates chatter? It's really a no-win situation when Sisters players start talking
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Post by: ClockworkZion
 the_Armyman wrote:Although every rumor thread gets hijacked by SoB chatter, every SoB thread eventually gets hijacked by misogyny/why-do-we-have-boobplates chatter? It's really a no-win situation when Sisters players start talking
You forgot the inevitable hijacking by people mocking Sisters players for being Sisters.
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Post by: generalchaos34
ClockworkZion wrote: the_Armyman wrote:Although every rumor thread gets hijacked by SoB chatter, every SoB thread eventually gets hijacked by misogyny/why-do-we-have-boobplates chatter? It's really a no-win situation when Sisters players start talking
You forgot the inevitable hijacking by people mocking Sisters players for being Sisters.
But...Thats Heresy!
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Post by: A Town Called Malus
ClockworkZion wrote:
Oh and the Canoness can only take 1 relic, but a Diagolus can take as many as she wants.
Why would you be upset at the rules providing you the perfect opportunity to field such an awesome model as the Dialogus? 
Oh yeah, now I remember 
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Post by: Veteran Sergeant
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:ClockworkZion wrote:
Frankly I'm at the point were if they're going to kill the army they need to either do it, or update it already. This half-assed inbetween nonsense is hurting their player base more than killing it straight out could.
Oh, I agree fully, I just don't think GW has the balls to put SoB players out of their misery, which is a damn shame..
I've never understood this mindset.
You'd rather not be able to play with your miniatures than continue to be allowed to play with them?
I mean, it makes sense to want new models. But wanting to be "put out of your misery" seems a bit silly. To what end? What purpose would that serve anyone? How do you, the player, benefit from being "put out of your misery", and how does GW benefit from dispatching you?
Though there's some amusing symmetry there, with the army of martyrs being played by players predisposed to martyrdom.
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Post by: EVIL INC
Especially when they have such a huge money maker ready made along with a huge customer base begging for it so that they can literally start throwing money at them. Holding back because of the principle of not wanting to admit they made a mistake in not doing it sooner is just funny.
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Post by: riverhawks32
I would start a small Sisters contingent or even army with a new codex/ plastic models so yay!
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Post by: The Imperial Answer
Would it kill GW to give the sisters the Land Raider ? The Inquisition, Adeptus Mechanicus and every Astartes faction has access to it. I've never seen a faction that has access to the rhino, but not the land raider. If you're going to give them one instrument of the emperors divine wrath, you might as well give them the other one too.
Or is the land-raider too much ?
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Post by: A Town Called Malus
The Imperial Answer wrote:Would it kill GW to give the sisters the Land Raider ? The Inquisition, Adeptus Mechanicus and every Astartes faction has access to it. I've never seen a faction that has access to the rhino, but not the land raider. If you're going to give them one instrument of the emperors divine wrath, you might as well give them the other one too. Or is the land-raider too much ?
You mean giving the Sisters an assault transport? Allowing them to get some real use out of Repentia without having to ally in a Land Raider? Makes too much sense for GW to consider.
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Post by: Spetulhu
 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
I've never understood this mindset. You'd rather not be able to play with your miniatures than continue to be allowed to play with them? How do you, the player, benefit from being "put out of your misery", and how does GW benefit from dispatching you?
Who knows? Maybe it's the words of a player who wants a paper Codex and GWs "cheap" plastic models available in GW stores? There's five Space Marine armies with books and lots of plastic kits that can be used for them all but SoB still have only metal infantry and one full plastic kit, the Immolator. Paying hard cash for 20 year old metal molds when some armies get a new plastic kit every few months does feel a bit wrong. If the company isn't willing to invest in them then maybe they should let it go and let players find another army or quit.
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Post by: the_hanged_man
Spetulhu wrote:The downside is anyone familiar with them knows what you'll bring, be it a friendly match or a tournament.
This is the main problem for me. Sisters have around half the number of options of other released codices, so any weak choice really hurts. While the HQ section has a number of good options, there are none in the elite, the one and only in troops, and two each is FA and Heavy.
While I love playing my Sisters, I feel really constrained in building a list even for friendly games. I know allying in other Imperial forces is an easy fix, but I want the Sisters to be able to stand on their own two feet and not have to play very similar compositions all the time.
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Post by: Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:See, I would argue Grey Knights are even MORE monobuild, and similarly only have three stand-out units (Dread Knights, Purifiers, and Librarian, so even fewer "good" options than SoB), and yet we got a full book release.
No... this just feels like GW being random and capricious. SoB are literally as complete or better than the state GK find themselves in, but are treated even more poorly in terms of release support.
GK have plastc kits. IK have plastic kits. Scions have plastic kits. They all have printed codices. Sisters do not have plastic kits (well, except for the incinerator), and they do not get plastic kits. Coincidence? Maybe, but not so sure.
Veteran Sergeant wrote:You'd rather not be able to play with your miniatures than continue to be allowed to play with them?
I mean, it makes sense to want new models. But wanting to be "put out of your misery" seems a bit silly. To what end? What purpose would that serve anyone? How do you, the player, benefit from being "put out of your misery", and how does GW benefit from dispatching you?
Basically, it is easier to give up on hope when someone else is doing forcing you to it, than when you have to do it by yourself. But really, anyone who is wanting to be “put out of her/his misery” should start another army, possibly in another game (very happy with Warmachine here). Then just keep an eye for a possible release in the future, without all the stress. You will feel better and happier. Trust me.
 A Town Called Malus wrote:Why would you be upset at the rules providing you the perfect opportunity to field such an awesome model as the Dialogus?
Oh yeah, now I remember
She looks like a nerd .
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Post by: The Imperial Answer
Sisters exclusive Lord of War when ?
Since they made characters like Dante and Ghazgkhull Lords of War, whats stopping them from doing the same for Celestine ?
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Post by: ClockworkZion
Veteran Sergeant wrote:NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:ClockworkZion wrote:
Frankly I'm at the point were if they're going to kill the army they need to either do it, or update it already. This half-assed inbetween nonsense is hurting their player base more than killing it straight out could.
Oh, I agree fully, I just don't think GW has the balls to put SoB players out of their misery, which is a damn shame..
I've never understood this mindset.
You'd rather not be able to play with your miniatures than continue to be allowed to play with them?
I mean, it makes sense to want new models. But wanting to be "put out of your misery" seems a bit silly. To what end? What purpose would that serve anyone? How do you, the player, benefit from being "put out of your misery", and how does GW benefit from dispatching you?
Though there's some amusing symmetry there, with the army of martyrs being played by players predisposed to martyrdom.
I'd rather they just pull the plug than keeping a slowly dying model line on life support if they have no intention of actually doing anything with it. At least then I'd know if I'm wasting my time or not anymore. Automatically Appended Next Post: the_hanged_man wrote:Spetulhu wrote:The downside is anyone familiar with them knows what you'll bring, be it a friendly match or a tournament.
This is the main problem for me. Sisters have around half the number of options of other released codices, so any weak choice really hurts. While the HQ section has a number of good options, there are none in the elite, the one and only in troops, and two each is FA and Heavy.
While I love playing my Sisters, I feel really constrained in building a list even for friendly games. I know allying in other Imperial forces is an easy fix, but I want the Sisters to be able to stand on their own two feet and not have to play very similar compositions all the time.
It's been my biggest complaint too. If every choice was at least equally useful then I'd be happy because I wouldn't be shoehorned into a single list all the time. I mean it's still be a limited codex with a slowly dying model line but I'd have *options* for a change. Automatically Appended Next Post: The Imperial Answer wrote:Sisters exclusive Lord of War when ?
Since they made characters like Dante and Ghazgkhull Lords of War, whats stopping them from doing the same for Celestine ?
Not much, but Celestine is going to need EW to be worth a LoW slot. That or get her old rule back where she can keep coming back indefinitely because having a T3 HQ model who can only come back once and can instagib to a single S6 isn't worth a LoW slot.
I'd kinda like to see her be more of a MC style HQ to represent the Emperor's Might flowing through her instead of keeping her purely human (basically make her as tough and strong as a Demon Prince but keep her other stats, the wargear and AoF and we're basically set), but I get why they don't do that either (namely because she'd actually be a threat to more than T4+ models whom Sisters typically wound on 5s.).
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Post by: pretre
I could see Celestine as a low...
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Post by: ClockworkZion
I can too, just not with her current stats and rules. She doesn't have enough "oomph" for the position, right now.
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Post by: pretre
Even now, it'd be cool. I could take Jacobus, priests and Celestine in one ally slot.
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Post by: The Imperial Answer
ClockworkZion wrote:
I can too, just not with her current stats and rules. She doesn't have enough "oomph" for the position, right now.
That's well within reason for them to do. It surprised me she didn't have stats of a greater daemon at-least when I read about her.
Also they can do what they did for Captain Tycho and give her two characters. One the usual Celestine (pre-disappearance), the other a Lord of War Celestine (post-disappearance).
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Post by: fox-light713
Veteran Sergeant wrote:
Though there's some amusing symmetry there, with the army of martyrs being played by players predisposed to martyrdom.
best quote of the thread so far.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
I just hope GW doesn't Squat the Sisters. As long as they're an army, it's good.
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Post by: pretre
 JohnHwangDD wrote:I just hope GW doesn't Squat the Sisters. As long as they're an army, it's good.
This. If played them with a lot worse rules than we have now and smaller unit selection.
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Post by: captain bloody fists
I'm all for a Sisters codex and model update, I've literally been saving some money for the day,
my one problem with them at the moment is flyers... sure you can take a aegis line and problem solved but that takes out a single character (cannones) or a unit (battle squad) from the equation but they still don't have any units that can combat a flyer on the field
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Post by: GoonBandito
 captain bloody fists wrote:I'm all for a Sisters codex and model update, I've literally been saving some money for the day,
my one problem with them at the moment is flyers... sure you can take a aegis line and problem solved but that takes out a single character (cannones) or a unit (battle squad) from the equation but they still don't have any units that can combat a flyer on the field
Well if you can use Forge World, the Avenger Strike Fighter is actually a pretty good unit.
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Post by: pretre
Hop over to the tactics thread for that discussion.  http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/558526.page The long and the short of it is, however, that I generally do one of two things with flyers when I play pure sisters: - Ignore them - Out maneuver them and ignore them Once everyone else is dead, I take potshots with Exorcists at them.
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Post by: Mr Morden
I (and others including art least one GW store manager) was somewhat confused by the recent Shield of Baal and its treatment of the Sisters of Battle:
On one hand:
Stunning New artwork
Really good writing and loads of it.
Not only do many survive but they kick serious ass whilst doing it.
Several in book scenarios where one side is purely Sororitas.
On the other hand:
Not a single new rule, character, formation, nothing.
So it was - "here look at this awesome army, see and read about them kicking ass, be inspired and ..........nothing."
If it had been a curb stomp - I would have understood that they were phasing them out, would have been both very annoyed and deeply saddened but understood, but this I just don't get?
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Post by: Sigvatr
Sisters of Battle not getting brutally slaughtered in a book? Wow GW, way to break with the fluff.
....that wasn't serious. Calm down sisters.
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Post by: ClockworkZion
 Mr Morden wrote:I (and others including art least one GW store manager) was somewhat confused by the recent Shield of Baal and its treatment of the Sisters of Battle:
On one hand:
Stunning New artwork
Really good writing and loads of it.
Not only do many survive but they kick serious ass whilst doing it.
Several in book scenarios where one side is purely Sororitas.
On the other hand:
Not a single new rule, character, formation, nothing.
So it was - "here look at this awesome army, see and read about them kicking ass, be inspired and ..........nothing."
If it had been a curb stomp - I would have understood that they were phasing them out, would have been both very annoyed and deeply saddened but understood, but this I just don't get?
I know, I swear it seems like everyone *except* the rules team was excited for Sisters for this one. I mean not even a Canoness Grace or Superior Amity profile?
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
It sounds like a clear statement from GW
1) SoB are not going away, they are part of the game world and are staying put
but
2) Don't expect to see anything new any time soon
although with the no mini - no rules policy that they've got now since the chapterhouse case point 2 is not as certain than it would previously have been
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Post by: Jaxies
I mean, it would be good to have ANY army with females in it. Not saying that all girls wouldn't want to play SM, persay, but the could relate more to a female army I believe. However, GW is already cutting SoB. I mean, look at it: £50 for a single Battle Sister squad, twice as much as a SM Tac, and almost 3x as much as an IG infantry squad, and those all include 10 models. GW have also done away with the physical Codex for the SoB, only digital editions now.
IN closing, I believe that if GW doesn't want to fully commit to the SoB as an army, they should just stop producing them, as eventually it will only hurt them as a company.
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Post by: The Imperial Answer
The Sisters at this point are being slotted into a support army like the Tempestus Scions. GW can get you to buy more models that way if you buy them to support another faction.
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Post by: Soteks Prophet
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:Squatting SoB would be such an act of poor faith on the part of a GW who already has a mediocre rep as a price-gouging, anti-consumer bunch, that I feel like even they know it isn't something they can do.
I feel like the next six months will be incredibly telling though. A new Codex and/or kits being released will either happen soon, or they will just let SoB languish forever as a barely-supported, but not officially killed-off, faction.
Because not updating them properly for a decade ISN'T a poor act of faith?
By now anyone that wants SoB either has them or has lost interest due to lack of support. Also who is to say that it wont be another 10 years until an update (hello Bretonnia!)
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Post by: pretre
 Soteks Prophet wrote:By now anyone that wants SoB either has them or has lost interest due to lack of support. Also who is to say that it wont be another 10 years until an update (hello Bretonnia!)
I know 2 people who have started SOB in the last month. As for '10 years'. SOB have never gone that long without an update. They actually get them pretty regularly.
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Post by: Mr Morden
 pretre wrote: Soteks Prophet wrote:By now anyone that wants SoB either has them or has lost interest due to lack of support. Also who is to say that it wont be another 10 years until an update (hello Bretonnia!)
I know 2 people who have started SOB in the last month. As for '10 years'. SOB have never gone that long without an update. They actually get them pretty regularly.
Several people read Shield of Baal and were interested in starting a SOB army........
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Post by: Furyou Miko
Well, that's a bit of a stretch, Pret.
1996 - Codex: Sisters of Battle
1998 - 3e rulebook
2000 - Chapter Approved
2003 - Codex: Which Hunters
pretty regular up until then, then nothing until...
2011 - Chapter Approved
2013 - Codex: Adepta Sororitas
So, pretty regular, aside from an eight year gap between 3rd and late 5th edition.
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Post by: Soteks Prophet
Last new models when?
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Post by: pretre
I agree. Saying 10 when it was only 8 is a bit of a stretch. Also: C: WH was 2004. C:SOB was 1997.
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Post by: Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl
3rd edition. 2003. A 12 years gap.
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Post by: pretre
Umm no. If we're counting only printed books that say 'Codex: Sisters of Battle' on them, it's been what... 19 years?
The books in between certainly count. Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, Oh you meant models.
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Post by: Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl
Yeah, I was answering to Tenehuini/Tenehauin (not sure about the “new” spelling”).
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
Sigvatr wrote:Sisters of Battle not getting brutally slaughtered in a book? Wow GW, way to break with the fluff.
....that wasn't serious. Calm down sisters.
I know. If we look at Armageddon, what happened to the girls there?
I particularly like the Grey Knights bit - it seems like GK should always be bringing a few disposable Sisters for those 2++ saves against Daemons... Automatically Appended Next Post: Soteks Prophet wrote:By now anyone that wants SoB either has them or has lost interest due to lack of support.
Really? Over the break, I finally decided to clean up my Seraphim and get them on their bases. Earlier this summer, I finished cleaning, gluing, and priming other Sisters models. Seems like some of us are still interested.
Quite frankly, Sisters getting a Stormtrooper treatment isn't a bad thing. They're obviously not going to be rivalling the Ultramarines anytime soon.
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Post by: MWHistorian
Do I think SOB should be supported? Yes.
Do I think they will be? No.
No new model in a decade and their dex still isn't in print. Neither shows a lot of interest from GW.
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Post by: ClockworkZion
 MWHistorian wrote:Do I think SOB should be supported? Yes.
Do I think they will be? No.
No new model in a decade and their dex still isn't in print. Neither shows a lot of interest from GW.
New lore and new art shows an interest, but sadly we can't see inside GW to know how far that interest goes or if models are even being worked on right now.
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Post by: The Imperial Answer
Is there a faction the sisters have not lost a battle to in the lore ? For an imperial faction, I think its on record of them being defeated in minor conflicts by the Guard and Space Marines.
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Post by: pretre
Depends on the definition of print you're using. It is certainly in print, but not in print, if you know what I mean. Just because there is not a physical book, does not mean they don't have a book. I mean, compare them to LatD, Genestealer Cults, etc so on. Those are not in print.
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Post by: MWHistorian
pretre wrote:
Depends on the definition of print you're using. It is certainly in print, but not in print, if you know what I mean. Just because there is not a physical book, does not mean they don't have a book. I mean, compare them to LatD, Genestealer Cults, etc so on. Those are not in print.
I meant physical. They're the only full dex that doesn't have a paper version. That's telling about GW's attitude toward SOB.
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Post by: pretre
MWHistorian wrote: pretre wrote:
Depends on the definition of print you're using. It is certainly in print, but not in print, if you know what I mean. Just because there is not a physical book, does not mean they don't have a book. I mean, compare them to LatD, Genestealer Cults, etc so on. Those are not in print.
I meant physical. They're the only full dex that doesn't have a paper version. That's telling about GW's attitude toward SOB.
Or it is telling about their attitude to paper. Or it is telling to their attitude to ePub. Really, it doesn't tell us anything except that they don't have a paper version.
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Post by: ClockworkZion
The Imperial Answer wrote:Is there a faction the sisters have not lost a battle to in the lore ? For an imperial faction, I think its on record of them being defeated in minor conflicts by the Guard and Space Marines.
They survived the Baal campaign. There is also a bit of fluff where you have Sisters going to a Shrine world that was spit out by the warp and recovering artefacts from the ruins and leaving before the Grey Knights could even show up and while suffering heavy casualties with those who went into the crypts the mission was a success.
And if you count the two novels they .
So they have victories, but they're almost always hard fought with heavy casulties. Despite this they come out of the ordeals unbent and unbroken despite being heavily bloodied.
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Post by: The Imperial Answer
pretre wrote:Depends on the definition of print you're using. It is certainly in print, but not in print, if you know what I mean. Just because there is not a physical book, does not mean they don't have a book. I mean, compare them to LatD, Genestealer Cults, etc so on. Those are not in print.
LatD are in the IA Vraks Trilogy and IA13 update. They have a physical book.
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Post by: ClockworkZion
I think Petre was referring to the actual Lost and the Damned codex, not the Renegades list from FW.
EDIT:
Since this is a general Sisters thread let me just bring this gem back (because it'll get posted eventually anyways):
Deep within the bowls of near eternal darkness, the ten sisters of battle sat within plastic containment. The two stuck together in one pocket of plastic had been good friends for well over a decade now.
"Sister Maria-kun...when will we get to serve the Emperor?" she would ask at least once a week. Ready to hear the comfort from her superior.
"Nisa-chan...soon. Soon we will show them the Emperor's fury." Maria would always reply in a confident tone.
This dance of emotional support spun on for years... one day, though. One day everything shifted. Jostled from sleep, Sister Nisa exclaimed, "Maria! Maria! We're moving! We're going to get to serve the Emperor!"
"Yes Sister Nisa!" replied Maria with excitement.
Soon, light filled their world. The dim blue gray of overhanging light-tubes. The plastic was opened, and the sisters were dumped with their squad into a massive bucket filled with other sisters.
"Maria! Where are you?!" Nisa yelled "Here here, over here!" Maria jostled her way over the other sisters to Nisa, "Surely this will be the largest holy war the Sororitas has ever seen or will see!"
Thousands of Sisters of battle yelled praises to the Emperor as they were dumped into a lead bowl. "A transport?" questioned Maria, as the cold metal touched her. The world moved again, and orange light filled the air and their bucket was placed into an enclosure.
"Its hot Sister Maria-kun! Its hot!" exclaimed Nisa in panic.
"Don't worry Sister Nisa-chan. We will serve the Emperor. We are protected!" she said as pewter droplets began to form on the surface of her armor and roll off into the container. "The Emperor protects!"
That was the last word from the sister as her face boiled away and pooled into the bottom of the container... in a matter of minutes the super heated oven had turned all the Sisters into a pewter bar. Ready to be melted into other forms or separated for its various metals.
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Post by: pretre
ClockworkZion wrote:I think Petre was referring to the actual Lost and the Damned codex, not the Renegades list from FW.
Right.
Since this is a general Sisters thread let me just bring this gem back (because it'll get posted eventually anyways):
Wasn't the great melting proved to be a lie anyway? Obviously, they never melted off all of their metal stocks to replace them with finecast/plastic/etc.
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Post by: AnomanderRake
Soteks Prophet wrote:NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:Squatting SoB would be such an act of poor faith on the part of a GW who already has a mediocre rep as a price-gouging, anti-consumer bunch, that I feel like even they know it isn't something they can do.
I feel like the next six months will be incredibly telling though. A new Codex and/or kits being released will either happen soon, or they will just let SoB languish forever as a barely-supported, but not officially killed-off, faction.
Because not updating them properly for a decade ISN'T a poor act of faith?
By now anyone that wants SoB either has them or has lost interest due to lack of support. Also who is to say that it wont be another 10 years until an update (hello Bretonnia!)
DE lived for a long time with 3e models and a 3e book.
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
ClockworkZion wrote:There is also a bit of fluff where you have Sisters going to a Shrine world that was spit out by the warp and recovering artefacts from the ruins and leaving before the Grey Knights could even show up
Given how Grey Knights treat Sisters, leaving before the GK arrive is the smart call.
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Post by: ClockworkZion
pretre wrote: ClockworkZion wrote:I think Petre was referring to the actual Lost and the Damned codex, not the Renegades list from FW.
Right.
Since this is a general Sisters thread let me just bring this gem back (because it'll get posted eventually anyways):
Wasn't the great melting proved to be a lie anyway? Obviously, they never melted off all of their metal stocks to replace them with finecast/plastic/etc.
It was more what was discussed what'll happen to the pewter models regardless of how they get phased out. Automatically Appended Next Post: JohnHwangDD wrote: ClockworkZion wrote:There is also a bit of fluff where you have Sisters going to a Shrine world that was spit out by the warp and recovering artefacts from the ruins and leaving before the Grey Knights could even show up
Given how Grey Knights treat Sisters, leaving before the GK arrive is the smart call.
It happened once, and at this point I'm tired of holding a grudge over what is less a slight against the Sisters and more just an instance of something not being explained well enough (seriously, an event like that needed more than a page to properly explain). Automatically Appended Next Post: Also Grey Knights treated Sisters decently in the Grey Knights trilogy so it's not like all interactions with the Daemonhunters ends with Grey Knights bleeding them dry.
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Post by: The Imperial Answer
In the new sisters codex they retcon out the blood purity talisman shenanigans. Apparently they are martyred this time around by the blood-tide. In the Grey Knights codex it makes no mention of the sisters at all oddly enough.
And speaking of the Grey Knights trilogy, I thought those books were one of the perpetrators when it came to bad sisters lore. I think at one point their Canoness lost a fight to a badly mauled guard regiment. Still this wasn't as bad as that nonsense I heard happened in the FireBorn audio drama with the daemon-engine thunder-hammer thing.
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Post by: ClockworkZion
I don't recall the guard regiment thing as much as them teaming up with the Grey Knights after it's revealed that there is Heresy afoot and going in swinging to purge as many heretics as possible while the Grey Knights go off to do their own thing.
But it's been a while since I've read the book so someone may want to correct me on it.
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Post by: The Imperial Answer
ClockworkZion wrote:I don't recall the guard regiment thing as much as them teaming up with the Grey Knights after it's revealed that there is Heresy afoot and going in swinging to purge as many heretics as possible while the Grey Knights go off to do their own thing.
But it's been a while since I've read the book so someone may want to correct me on it.
The renegade inquisitor leads the guardsmen against the Canoness guarding the Grey Knight's rear. The regiment had already been mauled when a piece of a starship engine fell on them and the Ordinatus next to them, causing a plasma explosion that vaporized 1/3 of their numbers and most of their officers. Though to be fair were there 700 of them verses a dozen or so sisters so that might be explainable.
What isn't explainable is FireBorn though.
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Post by: ClockworkZion
The Imperial Answer wrote: ClockworkZion wrote:I don't recall the guard regiment thing as much as them teaming up with the Grey Knights after it's revealed that there is Heresy afoot and going in swinging to purge as many heretics as possible while the Grey Knights go off to do their own thing.
But it's been a while since I've read the book so someone may want to correct me on it.
The renegade inquisitor leads the guardsmen against the Canoness guarding the Grey Knight's rear. The regiment had already been mauled when a piece of a starship engine fell on them and the Ordinatus next to them, causing a plasma explosion that vaporized 1/3 of their numbers and most of their officers. Though to be fair were there 700 of them verses a dozen or so sisters so that might be explainable.
What isn't explainable is FireBorn though.
Yeah, 700 vs 12 is the sort of odds that only works if you're a Space Marine (but at most only 3 will be living at the end typically).
I haven't read FireBorn yet. Is it in a book as a short story, or a seperate novel?
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
Guard team up with GK all the time. Then the GK summarily execute all of the Guardsmen, per standard operating practice.
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Post by: ClockworkZion
JohnHwangDD wrote:Guard team up with GK all the time. Then the GK summarily execute all of the Guardsmen, per standard operating practice.
Unless Space Wolves get involved.
It's because of that though that I don't get too upset about them killing Sisters, they'd probably do it anyways to prevent potential daemonic taint getting out. The part that needed better explanation was the blood thing, which I thought they could sell well if it was done to honor the Sisters and was more symbolic than actually needed.
But that was my take on it.
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Post by: The Imperial Answer
ClockworkZion wrote:
Yeah, 700 vs 12 is the sort of odds that only works if you're a Space Marine (but at most only 3 will be living at the end typically).
I haven't read FireBorn yet. Is it in a book as a short story, or a separate novel?
Its a Salamanders audio-novel. In it the sisters supposedly
I figure there is more to the story than this, but I hear its not too popular with sisters fans.
JohnHwangDD wrote:Guard team up with GK all the time. Then the GK summarily execute all of the Guardsmen, per standard operating practice.
They may be able to do that with the guard, but why would they need to do it with sisters ? Some of them know about chaos space marines and daemons. In Faith and Fury I think the main character mentions the traitor Thousand Sons homeworld of Prospero as being dragged into the warp in a discussion. They are also quite aware of what Warp Entities are in the story.
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Post by: ClockworkZion
Mind wiping is a process that is resource heavy, and can leave you a vegetable often enough that a bolt round does the job better for cheaper. They do it to Marines because Marines are fewer in number, more valuable and generally durable enough to make mind wiping less of a potential issue for them.
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Post by: AnomanderRake
JohnHwangDD wrote:Guard team up with GK all the time. Then the GK summarily execute all of the Guardsmen, per standard operating practice.
Not anymore. They took away the fun Apocalypse formation.
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Post by: fox-light713
The Imperial Answer wrote:In the new sisters codex they retcon out the blood purity talisman shenanigans. Apparently they are martyred this time around by the blood-tide. In the Grey Knights codex it makes no mention of the sisters at all oddly enough.
That was only in the old and new Grey Knight's codex and the new version of that story completely retcons out any mention of the sisters.  AnomanderRake wrote: JohnHwangDD wrote:Guard team up with GK all the time. Then the GK summarily execute all of the Guardsmen, per standard operating practice.
Not anymore. They took away the fun Apocalypse formation.
That doesn't mean that they will still do it in the Fluff
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Post by: 1hadhq
? YAY ?
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Post by: Januine
Not really sure if I'd paint/play them BUT would really like to see them get a decent proper treatment. New/updated units and vehicles, proper codex. Quit fking around GW and get it sorted. They have a large following and need to be done properly in plastic. Big Ýay' from this fella
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Post by: JohnHwangDD
I would be happy with plastic Sisters that match the metals in size and style. Really, I don't need anything more than that. Even snap fits like the starter marines.
New units, new stuff, I don't care. Just get the base model in plastic and cheap.
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