Well that's poopy....Not that stores were getting enough to begin with here locally anyway so I was probably going to be pre-ordering from direct anyway but that's pretty poopy.
Doesn't change much for me, since the closest FLGS is over an hour away. Had some closer, but they didn't last long. I pretty much have to order from GW for things like these books. Used to get models from Miniature Market, but I think they stopped carrying GW stuff entirely.
Sucks for local stores though. Aren't the hard back books limited edition? Maybe they're trying to make sure their limited edition stuff doesn't sit in a store somewhere? I dunno.
The only reason GW don't sell everything exclusively is because they just haven't got the coverage of their stores. Their relationship with independent traders has long been antagonistic. They don't put a high priority on developing relations with almost anyone it seems.
streamdragon wrote: Doesn't change much for me, since the closest FLGS is over an hour away. Had some closer, but they didn't last long. I pretty much have to order from GW for things like these books. Used to get models from Miniature Market, but I think they stopped carrying GW stuff entirely.
Sucks for local stores though. Aren't the hard back books limited edition? Maybe they're trying to make sure their limited edition stuff doesn't sit in a store somewhere? I dunno.
They're not limited editions, but they seem to be really low print runs. There WAS a limited edition as well. The reason I asked Mikhaila about Khaine is because that book's web allocation sold out within three to four minutes of going up. The limited edition stayed up for three hours afterwards in the US store.
I can't speak for anyone else, but my local GW got allocated only two "standard" copies of the Khaine Hardcover. He had none to put out on the shelf because he held them for myself and one other person who had come in to preorder the book. One of the local independents though had six to seven copies; of which the last I saw(three weeks ago) they had four or five still on the shelf.
I'm thinking that they might be trying to avoid a similar situation again.
Yeah, a limited print run that isn't restocked is a limited edition whether you call it that or not.
Based on allocations I would have been pre-ordering anyway. So while it sucks for store owners non of my locals could guarantee me a copy anyway. So there is that....
"They're selling so well that we need to make soft-backs." "We should also decrease their distribution! That way everyone can get one, and be 'get one' I of course mean 'only order them from us'!"
Only in the world of GW does decreasing the distribution of a sell-out high demand product make sense.
Even though this kind of thing is nothing new (GW has been following policies which are unhelpful to independents for 20 years), it seems to have increased of late and is the one thing that upsets me most about them.
The reason why? I can choose not to buy GW and play other games, and can ignore it each time they do something which makes their fans wince. But what I can't ignore is that despite declining sales, like it or not, their products still constitute a big seller for a lot of independent stores. A lot of those stores are struggling to survive in tough economic conditions, and for every direct-only release, late or incomplete delivery on launch items, they make life for those independents that much harder.
I know of at least two local FLGS that have closed in the past 2-3 years, and while you can't blame GW exclusively for this, you have to think that these kinds of policies aren't helping.
I think the whole thing is just ugly, it shouldn't happen in such a small industry, especially when one considers the creative, thought-provoking and social origins of wargaming. Let's hope other games continue to grow so that enough smaller shops can tell GW where to go, and hopefully bring them back onside and working with the community and rest of the industry, rather than against it all the time.
"They're selling so well that we need to make soft-backs."
"We should also decrease their distribution! That way everyone can get one, and be 'get one' I of course mean 'only order them from us'!"
Only in the world of GW does decreasing the distribution of a sell-out high demand product make sense.
When I'm having a tinfoil hat evening in the Azreal household, I often wonder whether this isn't a choice, but as their turnover is (was) hovering perilously close to their break even point, and their printing is still done out of house, if perhaps they only have the cash on hand to purchase a certain number of books at a time.
This is sad, I pre-ordered all of the Shield of Baal hardback stuff through my FLGS, and was planning on doing the same with Thanquol...'Thanquol Goodness' I saw this, now I just have to click faster than everyone else on Friday to get one :(
Wonder if this is in response to HBMC and others getting the windfall from them overselling the other hardbacks. By keeping them only throught the online they can ensure they won't be giving away $340 for $60 or whatever it turned out being when he ordered the hardback and they lost it and gave him crazy amounts of credit and the softcover version.
Theophony wrote: Wonder if this is in response to HBMC and others getting the windfall from them overselling the other hardbacks. By keeping them only throught the online they can ensure they won't be giving away $340 for $60 or whatever it turned out being when he ordered the hardback and they lost it and gave him crazy amounts of credit and the softcover version.
Just more "Great News" for FLGS from GW.
My book getting lost in the post - which is what happened, not overselling - isn't what caused this.
Fango wrote: This is sad, I pre-ordered all of the Shield of Baal hardback stuff through my FLGS, and was planning on doing the same with Thanquol...'Thanquol Goodness' I saw this, now I just have to click faster than everyone else on Friday to get one :(
I'm gonna be spamming F5 harder than when BotCon registration goes up.
Theophony wrote: Wonder if this is in response to HBMC and others getting the windfall from them overselling the other hardbacks. By keeping them only throught the online they can ensure they won't be giving away $340 for $60 or whatever it turned out being when he ordered the hardback and they lost it and gave him crazy amounts of credit and the softcover version.
Just more "Great News" for FLGS from GW.
My book getting lost in the post - which is what happened, not overselling - isn't what caused this.
Couldn't remember what it was from, but they didn't have any more to replace it with the hardback, so it still kind of stands....maybe
With the Khaine book my local GW was promised 5 for the store to sell and that then plummeted to 1 come release day due to overselling online, which left 4 customers incredibly irritated who had been hoping to crap it instore (and one incredibly smug).
Theophony wrote: Wonder if this is in response to HBMC and others getting the windfall from them overselling the other hardbacks. By keeping them only throught the online they can ensure they won't be giving away $340 for $60 or whatever it turned out being when he ordered the hardback and they lost it and gave him crazy amounts of credit and the softcover version.
Just more "Great News" for FLGS from GW.
My book getting lost in the post - which is what happened, not overselling - isn't what caused this.
Couldn't remember what it was from, but they didn't have any more to replace it with the hardback, so it still kind of stands....maybe
But that's not overselling. That's just... selling!
feth. I ordered two from my LGS. 1 as a gift and 1 for me.
EDIT: sigh. Ya know, just when they show signs of sorta, kinda, maybe just applying the first nuances of pressure and torque to remove their heads from their asses, they go and feth it up doing stupid gak like this.
Welp. feth it. I'm not playing the game. Soft cover it is going forward for End Times. I know ultimately it won't mean anything as the hard covers will sell out anyway, but at least it won't be my money wagging the dog.
'Technically, they aren't supposed to take pre-orders until the Saturday before release. I even tried to order Shield of Baal through the Warstore a few hours early and they told me to call back the next day. Not saying your FLGS can't promise to order one for you before that...but this new tomfoolery really chaps my hide...and stinks of corporate money grabbing greed. The GW rep I talked to the week Shield of Baal: Exterminatus released said that they ordered these print runs from China months and months prior to release...so there was no time to order more when they found out demand for them was as high as it was. Thus the Soft Cover editions, which they are having printed locally (in the UK). Still, I can't figure out why they cant place another order for hardback sets for those who still really want a premium version. Maybe they can't order them in a smaller quantity and still save enough on print cost? Who really knows besides GW?
I'd been giving some consideration to starting up WHFB, of which I've been finding a greater level of interest in as I've gotten older and my frustration with the state of 40k increases. I gave up buying anything GW produces that is "Direct-only" a while ago, as the only way I feel comfortable supporting them is through independents.
I was thinking of doing a dwarf army and a mini skaven force to play them against. However, with the inability to pick up the End Times book I'm most interested in via an independent, it seems that my plans may end up going by the wayside.
Outside of the End Times I don't purchase "Limited" stuff either. And I didn't know it was going to be "Limited" when I got the Nagash book and then I was sucked in. Which made me sad pants.
Oh well, they've got me on the hook for this at least.
Melcavuk wrote: With the Khaine book my local GW was promised 5 for the store to sell and that then plummeted to 1 come release day due to overselling online, which left 4 customers incredibly irritated who had been hoping to crap it instore (and one incredibly smug).
I'm guessing The Four still ended up doing just that then?
mikhaila wrote: I've been informed that i will recieve zero of the Thanquol HC next week for my stores. If you want it, you have to get it from GW direct.
Pure money grab. They were happy as hell to my money for the first 3. Now I and all other stores get the softcover edition.
Truly the end times are here. Mostly what was left of my relationship with GW
Didn't you in the long ago, tour the main offices of GW? If that was you, then you are right, it is the end times. All those years ago, they were a civil crew to their fans.
mikhaila wrote: I've been informed that i will recieve zero of the Thanquol HC next week for my stores. If you want it, you have to get it from GW direct.
Pure money grab. They were happy as hell to my money for the first 3. Now I and all other stores get the softcover edition.
Truly the end times are here. Mostly what was left of my relationship with GW
Wow, pretty crazy.. Without local stores GW may as well leave the US. I seriously don't understand their business plan.
mikhaila wrote: I've been informed that i will recieve zero of the Thanquol HC next week for my stores. If you want it, you have to get it from GW direct.
Pure money grab. They were happy as hell to my money for the first 3. Now I and all other stores get the softcover edition.
Truly the end times are here. Mostly what was left of my relationship with GW
Wow, pretty crazy.. Without local stores GW may as well leave the US. I seriously don't understand their business plan.
Make a lot of money and a giant mess, then retire and someone else can clean it up.
Wow, pretty crazy.. Without local stores GW may as well leave the US. I seriously don't understand their business plan.
I honestly think that this 'business plan' is someone at the very end of the line making every single decision based on "If I do this, we get this tiny amount more money".
I'm not criticizing the sculptors, or the writers, or the artists. I think that most of them do a great job, day in and day out. I might disagree with them, but ultimately, I don't think they are working in bad faith, or phoning it it.
On the other hand, some idiot at GW is making these boneheaded decisions at the last minute, discounting EVERYTHING else that has been done in the entire line from concept to production, because they perceive an opportunity to squeeze one more penny out of a particular transaction. They are discounted the time and money already invested in the project, and the effect that this decision will have on game stores, gamers, and collectors, but I'm sure they have a spreadsheet that shows how great their idea is.
GW conceived these books, wrote them, assembled models and art for them, got them printed and shipped, and THEN decides, on the FOURTH BOOK, to change the distribution method? Some idiot somewhere thought it would make him look smart.
mikhaila wrote: I've been informed that i will recieve zero of the Thanquol HC next week for my stores. If you want it, you have to get it from GW direct.
Pure money grab. They were happy as hell to my money for the first 3. Now I and all other stores get the softcover edition.
Truly the end times are here. Mostly what was left of my relationship with GW
Didn't you in the long ago, tour the main offices of GW? If that was you, then you are right, it is the end times. All those years ago, they were a civil crew to their fans.
Many tours of offices, warehouse, casting areas, etc. Sales conferences, get togethers, and "come down for lunch on Thursday". I still have contact with many of the people who were in charge of GW US, back in the day. Many of them are selling some pretty good games. Ernie Baker is running Architects of War and has Ed Spettigue and Jaimee Pirazola with him. John Mattews and I get in some WFB now and then, he runs Battlefronts US operations. Very good people, who loved to game and model and talk warhammer. I was a major proponent of GW for years. Part of me still is, and weeps to see what a cluster..uh..badword...that they are turning it into now.
You shall not see men of their stature at Games Workshop today. The blood of heroes has run thin. It is the End Times![b]
"Premium Product at a Premium Price" This was the buzz phrase being toss around on the the "Training Meetings" a year ago or so ago. When employees were asking questions about how to attempt to answer customer questions about the prices. "If everyone could get it why would anyone want it?" another statement/answer that was uttered. "Why do you thinkFW does so well? Its a Premium Product for the elite collector, it creates its own status, not everyone can afford itor get it so everyone wants it." That one too. I just walked away and stopped trying to ask any more questions at that point. The absolute disregard for anything other than the profit margin is alive and well. And sadly working like a champ!
In partial defense I will bastardize a quote from another Dakka Member I read years ago but sadly can not remember his name. " I am OK with the fact its a bit expensive to play GW, it keeps the riff-raff out. If I wanted to play with homeless people I would go to a soup kitchen." I spit soda on my PC screen after reading that so you could say it stuck with me.
GW just seems to have multiple personality disorder. No FW in shops, ok in bunkers. OK now no Bunkers. No FW books outside of cons and FW direct, ok in GW shops. Ok not in GW shops any more. Build a community and get them to come to the shop weekly. Community is a bad word we must not say community. Lets help you understand this by making the shops smaller and pulling tables out of ones that have more than 2. It goes on and on.
So selling a few hardbacks to FLGS and then pulling the rug out from under them is so not surprising. Super Sad but not surprising.
Accolade wrote: I'd been giving some consideration to starting up WHFB, of which I've been finding a greater level of interest in as I've gotten older and my frustration with the state of 40k increases. I gave up buying anything GW produces that is "Direct-only" a while ago, as the only way I feel comfortable supporting them is through independents.
I was thinking of doing a dwarf army and a mini skaven force to play them against. However, with the inability to pick up the End Times book I'm most interested in via an independent, it seems that my plans may end up going by the wayside.
Unless you're chained to a GW store (and you're not), you don't even need Warhammer to play skaven and old world dwarfs, let alone End Times books.
Captain Vyper wrote: In partial defense I will bastardize a quote from another Dakka Member I read years ago but sadly can not remember his name. " I am OK with the fact its a bit expensive to play GW, it keeps the riff-raff out. If I wanted to play with homeless people I would go to a soup kitchen." I spit soda on my PC screen after reading that so you could say it stuck with me.
I wish I thought you were exaggerating, but I'm sure you're not.
Some of the "white knights" around here will spout anything to defend their beloved GW.
Some of the "white knights" around here will spout anything to defend their beloved GW.
And some people on here are so incapable of reason that they dismiss any other opinion of white knighting.
It's a limited edition, so I'm suprised they were ever allowed through FLGS. The SC is there so people can play with the rules, the HC is meant to be a collectors item, why shouldn't a company keep those in house?
They are over-priced, but since you don't need a HC to play the game, noone is forcing you to buy it. However, if you want it, they GW are being clever by maximising revenue. It'll sell out, so maximise the profit and release the normal edition to all so the game isn't compromised.
If someone could have an adult debate on this without the white knight comments this place would be better.
Some of the "white knights" around here will spout anything to defend their beloved GW.
And some people on here are so incapable of reason that they dismiss any other opinion of white knighting.
It's a limited edition, so I'm suprised they were ever allowed through FLGS. The SC is there so people can play with the rules, the HC is meant to be a collectors item, why shouldn't a company keep those in house?
They are over-priced, but since you don't need a HC to play the game, noone is forcing you to buy it. However, if you want it, they GW are being clever by maximising revenue. It'll sell out, so maximise the profit and release the normal edition to all so the game isn't compromised.
If someone could have an adult debate on this without the white knight comments this place would be better.
Except that white knight comment was about a different quote, not about anything said here.
It's all well and good saying 'it's Limited Edition' but when the End Times stuff started, not once did they say anything about Limited Edition. It took til like the third book til they even mentioned that. Had they communicated from the start the Hardbacks were limited edition it would be different, in my opinion.
Nope. I tried to get Nagash later and emailed to ask when it would be back in stock and it was only then they said it was limited run. They didn't even know if they were gonna do the paperbacks then. And I spoke to two local game stores and neither of them new it was a limited product til they tried to order more either. One of them had sold he copy he out by for himself because he thought he'd just be able to buy another one.
Some of the "white knights" around here will spout anything to defend their beloved GW.
And some people on here are so incapable of reason that they dismiss any other opinion of white knighting.
It's a limited edition, so I'm suprised they were ever allowed through FLGS. The SC is there so people can play with the rules, the HC is meant to be a collectors item, why shouldn't a company keep those in house?
They are over-priced, but since you don't need a HC to play the game, noone is forcing you to buy it. However, if you want it, they GW are being clever by maximising revenue. It'll sell out, so maximise the profit and release the normal edition to all so the game isn't compromised.
If someone could have an adult debate on this without the white knight comments this place would be better.
Those words might come up less often if people didn't try flimsy post hoc rationalisations of GW's mistakes and foolishness like that one; the softcovers were a panic reaction by the company to something they didn't expect, they were not "being clever", they initially only intended to release the HC versions(at least in the medium term) and, yet again, were caught out and had to rush the SC books into production. Now that they've realised they'd drastically underestimated the demand, they're trying to soak up extra profit by denying copies of the HC to independents. That's also not clever, because it's yet more evidence for said independents that GW will poison any well, salt any field if it means even a single shred more profit from any individual release, and that if FLGS go out of business as a result they don't care - that means more stores giving up in frustration and switching their focus to MTG as their main moneymaker with WM/H, Infinity etc on the side, which means less market penetration for GW products, chiefly in the markets where their penetration is almost entirely dependent on indies like the USA.
Clever companies do not sacrifice their long-term viability for minimal short-term increases in profit margin.
And between this kind of crap and my dislike of the End Times fluff, I actually feel a little bit disgusted with myself right now...because I'm having to argue myself out of buying the new Thanquol kit and the Skaven dice. It's so frustrating, GW are capable of making such great models, and they still have people who can write good fluff, but they'll throw those advantages away in a heartbeat if it means just one more penny on those precious dividends.
I still fail to see why it's a stupid idea to only do LE books through the GW stores though. Of all the things to moan about (and there are a good few with WHFB!) this smacks of a generic GW bash.
I see it as a trial type thing. GW have no loyalty to FLGS, and they are struggling financially from what I've seen. It's the smart decision.
As someone who only uses a FLGS it's a shame, but it's not unfair, stupid, or poor business by GW.
Making a game that requires 100s of miniatures to play a basic game, then setting a price point for those minis that prices out a big part of the potential audience is the stupid thing.
Oh come on, they're a 30odd year old company. They shouldn't need to trial things like this anymore. And of course, if they did a bit of customer research...
Either sell through FLGS, or don't. Selling some and then pulling the rug from under their feet is just...wrong.
Agreed, the approach has been scattergun, and unprofessional.
It's a hobby company that is being run a little too much for cash and not enough for the hobbyist. It's a shame, because a little more of the latter would end up with more of the former.
They might as well be a new company a the moment, becuase the landscape has changed and they haven't adapted. These sort of mistakes are to be expected when the company is trying to re-find it's footing.
mikhaila wrote: Without local stores GW may as well leave the US. I seriously don't understand their business plan.
I don''t think GW understand their business plan, either, assuming they actually have a business plan...
I think their business plan at least as far as this is concerned, is that if these books were selling well from independents at a trade discount of 40%, they'll make 40% more by making it direct only, and that doing this thing will encourage customers to go direct to GW in the future. In reality, it'll likely put off at least as many customers are it forces direct, and puts off the only people trying to sell your product in many areas.
Because in some parts of the world it's the cheaper option (In Japan, DKK are cheaper than Cadians), and in others it's looking like good value.
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The Division Of Joy wrote: I see it as a trial type thing. GW have no loyalty to FLGS, and they are struggling financially from what I've seen. It's the smart decision.
As someone who only uses a FLGS it's a shame, but it's not unfair, stupid, or poor business by GW.
GW should have a loyalty to the FLGS though, because they do a lot of the work for GW and are an asset to be encouraged rather than hampered. A pro-GWFLGS will do much more for GW than one that grudgingly stocks GW stuff or drops them entirely.
The Division Of Joy wrote: I still fail to see why it's a stupid idea to only do LE books through the GW stores though. Of all the things to moan about (and there are a good few with WHFB!) this smacks of a generic GW bash.
Some of the "white knights" around here will spout anything to defend their beloved GW.
And some people on here are so incapable of reason that they dismiss any other opinion of white knighting.
It's a limited edition, so I'm suprised they were ever allowed through FLGS. The SC is there so people can play with the rules, the HC is meant to be a collectors item, why shouldn't a company keep those in house?
They are over-priced, but since you don't need a HC to play the game, noone is forcing you to buy it. However, if you want it, they GW are being clever by maximising revenue. It'll sell out, so maximise the profit and release the normal edition to all so the game isn't compromised.
If someone could have an adult debate on this without the white knight comments this place would be better.
errr, what? What made you think it was a limited edition? There were no softcovers at all of Nagash, but there was a 'limited' HC and a regular HC. It sold ok, started picking up steam. Glotkin sold better. Khain sold out fast as hell. The 40kHC books were doing the same, selling better and better.
These were in no way "Limited Editions" at the start. GW was happy to sell them to LGS
Now, they decided to keep them all for mailorder. Similar to how over half the entire WFB line is only sold by them.
Why shouldn't they keep them in house for collectors? Where do you think most of the 'collectors' got the first 3 volumes? In their LGS.
Accolade wrote: I'd been giving some consideration to starting up WHFB, of which I've been finding a greater level of interest in as I've gotten older and my frustration with the state of 40k increases. I gave up buying anything GW produces that is "Direct-only" a while ago, as the only way I feel comfortable supporting them is through independents.
I was thinking of doing a dwarf army and a mini skaven force to play them against. However, with the inability to pick up the End Times book I'm most interested in via an independent, it seems that my plans may end up going by the wayside.
Unless you're chained to a GW store (and you're not), you don't even need Warhammer to play skaven and old world dwarfs, let alone End Times books.
I realize I don't need the End Times book, at this point it's more frustration with GW for shorthanding LGSs in an attempt to force sales through direct. End Times is pretty big at the store I visit; they've had some good success with Glottkin and the Khaine releases. Now with the Skaven book pulled from them, I'm sure it will have a dampening effect on a store that has done a good job promoting a game that has fallen off on sales these last few years.
I am curious though- what do you mean by not needing Warhammer to play? Are you talking about Mordheim, WH Quest, or some older edition of WHFB?
I realize I don't need the End Times book, at this point it's more frustration with GW for shorthanding LGSs in an attempt to force sales through direct. End Times is pretty big at the store I visit; they've had some good success with Glottkin and the Khaine releases. Now with the Skaven book pulled from them, I'm sure it will have a dampening effect on a store that has done a good job promoting a game that has fallen off on sales these last few years.
Bear in mind the End Times books will still be in store. It's just going to be the soft cover and not the hardback. So your LGS should still have success promoting fantasy as I doubt they were receiving a ton of the hardbacks. Mikhaila is the only one I've heard of getting double digits and that was spread across 2 stores.
Still sucks they are pulling HC's from stores. But they aren't pulling End Times from stores.
I'm still going to try for the hardback on friday. We'll see what happens.
FLGS have issues promoting fantasy, and this is just another step in that direction. As mikhaila says, much of that range is direct only now, including basic core troops needed to field a legal army
RiTides wrote: FLGS have issues promoting fantasy, and this is just another step in that direction. As mikhaila says, much of that range is direct only now, including basic core troops needed to field a legal army
While I agree that direct only Fantasy is bad this isn't direct only. The HC is. End Times Thanquol will be available in stores in SC. I'm all for being annoyed that they pulled the HC. But acting like the information isn't available in another format that is available to a LGS isn't correct. LGS should still be able to promote fantasy End Times stuff.
Not to mention that based on availability the HC might as well have not been available anyway for many, many, many LGS. I live in an area that has 6 LGS that sell GW product. 5 of those order direct from GW. And they didn't get between them what Mikhaila got for one of his stores. Heck, I have a GW store locally that didn't get as many as Mikhaila got for one store.
RiTides wrote: FLGS have issues promoting fantasy, and this is just another step in that direction. As mikhaila says, much of that range is direct only now, including basic core troops needed to field a legal army
I agree, it's ridiculous. I just went on the Outpost site and under Bretonnia (might be an extreme example, but just because they're older isn't really an excuse) and all I could order if I wanted to is the book, the battalion, and the peasant bowmen. And I don't know how much of that is just stock they have left. And it's like that for all the armies, massive gaps where you can't buy core troops to make an army. It's just stupid.
RiTides wrote: FLGS have issues promoting fantasy, and this is just another step in that direction. As mikhaila says, much of that range is direct only now, including basic core troops needed to field a legal army
While I agree that direct only Fantasy is bad this isn't direct only. The HC is. End Times Thanquol will be available in stores in SC. I'm all for being annoyed that they pulled the HC. But acting like the information isn't available in another format that is available to a LGS isn't correct. LGS should still be able to promote fantasy End Times stuff.
Are the local shops going to get soft covers on the day of release? If not, it is still a shafting as a large percentage of sales (so far as I have heard) occur in close proximity to the release date.
mikhaila wrote: I've been informed that i will recieve zero of the Thanquol HC next week for my stores. If you want it, you have to get it from GW direct.
Pure money grab. They were happy as hell to my money for the first 3. Now I and all other stores get the softcover edition.
Truly the end times are here. Mostly what was left of my relationship with GW
It's bizarre and must be frustrating as all hell.
I suggest you put discounts on starter sets and rulebooks for Infinity, Malifaux and Warmahordes and start running introductory tourneys.
RiTides wrote: FLGS have issues promoting fantasy, and this is just another step in that direction. As mikhaila says, much of that range is direct only now, including basic core troops needed to field a legal army
While I agree that direct only Fantasy is bad this isn't direct only. The HC is. End Times Thanquol will be available in stores in SC. I'm all for being annoyed that they pulled the HC. But acting like the information isn't available in another format that is available to a LGS isn't correct. LGS should still be able to promote fantasy End Times stuff.
Are the local shops going to get soft covers on the day of release? If not, it is still a shafting as a large percentage of sales (so far as I have heard) occur in close proximity to the release date.
The issue is that as Hulksmash, Mikhaila, and myself all mentioned?
The Khaine book sold out in a phenomenally small amount of time. I was over at my local GW to preorder and in the time that it took for me to add the damn book to cart and go to checkout, the book was sold out. I probably would have ended up having to get a softcover if the manager didn't hold a copy for me out of the extremely small amount of books he was allocated. He barely got a quarter of what Mikhaila was allocated to his two stores--and that's an official GW store getting shorted on their own product.
RiTides wrote: FLGS have issues promoting fantasy, and this is just another step in that direction. As mikhaila says, much of that range is direct only now, including basic core troops needed to field a legal army
While I agree that direct only Fantasy is bad this isn't direct only. The HC is. End Times Thanquol will be available in stores in SC. I'm all for being annoyed that they pulled the HC. But acting like the information isn't available in another format that is available to a LGS isn't correct. LGS should still be able to promote fantasy End Times stuff.
Are the local shops going to get soft covers on the day of release? If not, it is still a shafting as a large percentage of sales (so far as I have heard) occur in close proximity to the release date.
The issue is that as Hulksmash, Mikhaila, and myself all mentioned?
The Khaine book sold out in a phenomenally small amount of time. I was over at my local GW to preorder and in the time that it took for me to add the damn book to cart and go to checkout, the book was sold out. I probably would have ended up having to get a softcover if the manager didn't hold a copy for me out of the extremely small amount of books he was allocated. He barely got a quarter of what Mikhaila was allocated to his two stores--and that's an official GW store getting shorted on their own product.
Do you understand that if a GW store doesn't have the books because the GWHQ keeps them, then that's still profit for... GW!
And that if Mike doesn't have the books to sell, then that's... no profit to Mike?
RiTides wrote: FLGS have issues promoting fantasy, and this is just another step in that direction. As mikhaila says, much of that range is direct only now, including basic core troops needed to field a legal army
While I agree that direct only Fantasy is bad this isn't direct only. The HC is. End Times Thanquol will be available in stores in SC. I'm all for being annoyed that they pulled the HC. But acting like the information isn't available in another format that is available to a LGS isn't correct. LGS should still be able to promote fantasy End Times stuff.
Are the local shops going to get soft covers on the day of release? If not, it is still a shafting as a large percentage of sales (so far as I have heard) occur in close proximity to the release date.
The issue is that as Hulksmash, Mikhaila, and myself all mentioned?
The Khaine book sold out in a phenomenally small amount of time. I was over at my local GW to preorder and in the time that it took for me to add the damn book to cart and go to checkout, the book was sold out. I probably would have ended up having to get a softcover if the manager didn't hold a copy for me out of the extremely small amount of books he was allocated. He barely got a quarter of what Mikhaila was allocated to his two stores--and that's an official GW store getting shorted on their own product.
Do you understand that if a GW store doesn't have the books because the GWHQ keeps them, then that's still profit for... GW!
And that if Mike doesn't have the books to sell, then that's... no profit to Mike?
I really don't get what you're trying to say here. Both those things are obvious and no ones said otherwise...
I does suck that we have to jump through so many hoops to get these books. I have the first 3 in Hardback and want to make sure that the remaining books in the series are the same format.
I don't blame GW for trying to make money. I also understand that due to the print timing, the other books couldn't have their print run increased. It isn't as easy as calling up and asking to double the order. Print runs are scheduled months in advance and I'm sure that the printer's time is booked before and after the project so there is no room to add more.
I stopped trying to buy special order items from my FLGS as he would often forget who ordered the items and would sell them to other people even if they didn't ask ahead of time. I want to support the local store but sometimes they make decisions that really make it difficult to do so.
Kanluwen wrote: [
I was over at my local GW to preorder and in the time that it took for me to add the damn book to cart and go to checkout, the book was sold out. I probably would have ended up having to get a softcover if the manager didn't hold a copy for me out of the extremely small amount of books he was allocated. He barely got a quarter of what Mikhaila was allocated to his two stores--and that's an official GW store getting shorted on their own product.
Do you understand that if a GW store doesn't have the books because the GWHQ keeps them, then that's still profit for... GW!
And that if Mike doesn't have the books to sell, then that's... no profit to Mike?
I really don't get what you're trying to say here. Both those things are obvious and no ones said otherwise...
Unless you can actually read Kanulwen suggesting that GW's manager was worse off than Mike... When GW's manager is benefiting from the copies sold by the company in relative terms, belonging to the company making the profit and will continue to be paid a salary. Whereas Mike, as an independent retailer, gains nothing from direct only sales and loses potential revenue.
You know, basic economics... Or maybe you don't know.
Kanluwen wrote: [
I was over at my local GW to preorder and in the time that it took for me to add the damn book to cart and go to checkout, the book was sold out. I probably would have ended up having to get a softcover if the manager didn't hold a copy for me out of the extremely small amount of books he was allocated. He barely got a quarter of what Mikhaila was allocated to his two stores--and that's an official GW store getting shorted on their own product.
Do you understand that if a GW store doesn't have the books because the GWHQ keeps them, then that's still profit for... GW!
And that if Mike doesn't have the books to sell, then that's... no profit to Mike?
I really don't get what you're trying to say here. Both those things are obvious and no ones said otherwise...
Unless you can actually read Kanulwen suggesting that GW's manager was worse off than Mike... When GW's manager is benefiting from the copies sold by the company in relative terms, belonging to the company making the profit and will continue to be paid a salary. Whereas Mike, as an independent retailer, gains nothing from direct only sales and loses potential revenue.
You know, basic economics... Or maybe you don't know.
No I get that, but I don't think that was Kans point. I think his point was that there's so few printed even official stores get hardly any.
Hulk - All my local shops had the hardbacks of the other versions, fwiw. If they release the softcover simultaneously, it does lessen the blow, but sucks since many folks will plan to buy it locally like they did the others.
Kanluwen wrote: [ I was over at my local GW to preorder and in the time that it took for me to add the damn book to cart and go to checkout, the book was sold out. I probably would have ended up having to get a softcover if the manager didn't hold a copy for me out of the extremely small amount of books he was allocated. He barely got a quarter of what Mikhaila was allocated to his two stores--and that's an official GW store getting shorted on their own product.
Do you understand that if a GW store doesn't have the books because the GWHQ keeps them, then that's still profit for... GW!
And that if Mike doesn't have the books to sell, then that's... no profit to Mike?
I really don't get what you're trying to say here. Both those things are obvious and no ones said otherwise...
Unless you can actually read Kanulwen suggesting that GW's manager was worse off than Mike... When GW's manager is benefiting from the copies sold by the company in relative terms, belonging to the company making the profit and will continue to be paid a salary. Whereas Mike, as an independent retailer, gains nothing from direct only sales and loses potential revenue.
You know, basic economics... Or maybe you don't know.
Or Kan was pointing out that some LGS had previously gotten more for sale in store than GW stores. He never says anything other than that. The rest is inference on your part to attack him.
I don't disagree it sucks that they aren't available in Hardback from your FLGS. It sucks they are changing stuff up midstride. That said it isn't a change for the vast majority of people looking for these books. Most of us were going to be going thru the website anyway because our FLGS already couldn't get the numbers they needed to guarantee us the product.
@RiTides
They released Exterminatus in SC/HC at the same time and they released Khaine at the same time in HC/SC. At least from what I remember. I could be off on the Khaine since I don't got into my FLGS every friday. I know Exterminatus did as I got the SC when I ordered the HC from a retailer and it came the same week the HC's were shipped.
And all of my local shops that wanted End Times got them too. In low single digit numbers. I wasn't kidding when I said one of Mikhaila's stores got more distribution than all of the Minneapolis metro area combined. Including a GW store.
Minicannuck wrote: I does suck that we have to jump through so many hoops to get these books. I have the first 3 in Hardback and want to make sure that the remaining books in the series are the same format.
There's something cynical about selling a product through a wide distribution, and when people are invested in buying the set, to then make it entirely exclusive.
I still think that the more hoops you create to make customers to jump through to buy your product, the fewer customers you will hold on to. It's not a CCG, people buying warhammer don't see chasing down product as part of the hobby.
Yeah I ninja edited, but that's really the rub - will hard and softcover be a simultaneous release? If not, it really sucks for FLGS... and is just bad business really.
Minicannuck wrote: I does suck that we have to jump through so many hoops to get these books. I have the first 3 in Hardback and want to make sure that the remaining books in the series are the same format.
There's something cynical about selling a product through a wide distribution, and when people are invested in buying the set, to then make it entirely exclusive.
I still think that the more hoops you create to make customers to jump through to buy your product, the fewer customers you will hold on to. It's not a CCG, people buying warhammer don't see chasing down product as part of the hobby.
Agreed. I was done with the End Times stuff until I happened upon a reasonably priced (i.e. retail) version of Khaine when I couldn't get the product at release. Now I'm back in assuming I can get Thanquol. If not, then I'm back out again. I do love the books though...
I stopped trying to buy special order items from my FLGS as he would often forget who ordered the items and would sell them to other people even if they didn't ask ahead of time. I want to support the local store but sometimes they make decisions that really make it difficult to do so.
I wish everyone luck finding the book.
I had this very problem. My FLGS was allocated ONE copy of each of the HB releases for End Times and for Shield of Baal. One other person besides myself pre-ordered Leviathan. The Leviathan book came in and I got to the store right when it opened that Saturday...and even though the guy who does the pre-orders was going to give the single copy to the other person (his friend), he wasn't there, and the clerk who was sold it to me (as I had a pre-order in as well.) I didn't find out I wasn't supposed to get it until I went in to pre-order Exterminatus, and the guy told me that his friend was pre-ordering this one as well...
I was forced to try the store in the next town (who was also only allocated a single copy) to make certain I got a Hard Back copy. I could really only afford one though...even though I had a pre-order in at both stores. So I contacted a guy in our gaming group who I know was a Blood Angels player and said, "hey, if I get stuck with both of these, do you want one?" He said "of course!" and it turned out that the 'friend' (the other person pre-ordering the book from the original store) was his girlfriend trying to order it for him....and they lived in the town where the 'other' store was, so it all worked out in the end...but what a nightmare.
Personally, if I start a book series HC, I want to finish it HC. Most of the time, I go SC because I start late (like graphic novels). If most people were getting HC, then partway through the editions they switch to only SC (or online order only), it'll upset people. Offer an all-or-nothing on the HCs. That's the issue that I, and a lot of others, have with this. It's flagrant disregard for the customers who care about keeping in one style. It looks poor on the shelf.
If they started HC or SC, and people were allowed to choose from the beginning, I think you'd see a lot less crushed toes.
As usual they have something that is so close to a great idea but the implementation messes it up.
I don't even really play Fantasy that much anymore but I bought the Nagash Hardcover set and loved it. I would own all the others too if I could have got the HC sets.
but I wonder if the Skaven book is going direct only as they under ordered even compared to the other ET releases (as it would 'only' appeal to buyers of a single army book, rather then the multiple books the others do)
Y'know for a few years MY WHOLE JOB was demand planning to make sure my company had enough product (more than enough actually) to meet demand in shops.
H.B.M.C. wrote:Would he be that much of a micro-manager?
Don't know. But it just occurred to me that this has happened.
Kid_Kyoto wrote:Y'know for a few years MY WHOLE JOB was demand planning to make sure my company had enough product (more than enough actually) to meet demand in shops.
you can't sell products you don't have!
Wonder if GW would be interested in hiring me.
Sorry, they hire for attitude not skills & ability.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Y'know for a few years MY WHOLE JOB was demand planning to make sure my company had enough product (more than enough actually) to meet demand in shops.
you can't sell products you don't have!
Wonder if GW would be interested in hiring me.
they really need to sort this out. They're a 30 year old company, they should really know by now how well a product is going to sell. Issues like this are ridiculous for a company this experienced.
timetowaste85 wrote: Personally, if I start a book series HC, I want to finish it HC. Most of the time, I go SC because I start late (like graphic novels). If most people were getting HC, then partway through the editions they switch to only SC (or online order only), it'll upset people. Offer an all-or-nothing on the HCs. That's the issue that I, and a lot of others, have with this. It's flagrant disregard for the customers who care about keeping in one style. It looks poor on the shelf.
If they started HC or SC, and people were allowed to choose from the beginning, I think you'd see a lot less crushed toes.
Yeah, most people I know like their collections the same way. I guess GW can't even take care of their target audience properly.
timetowaste85 wrote: Personally, if I start a book series HC, I want to finish it HC. Most of the time, I go SC because I start late (like graphic novels). If most people were getting HC, then partway through the editions they switch to only SC (or online order only), it'll upset people. Offer an all-or-nothing on the HCs. That's the issue that I, and a lot of others, have with this. It's flagrant disregard for the customers who care about keeping in one style. It looks poor on the shelf.
If they started HC or SC, and people were allowed to choose from the beginning, I think you'd see a lot less crushed toes.
Yeah, most people I know like their collections the same way. I guess GW can't even take care of their target audience properly.
It is rather otiose to ask us what we want after all...
Kanluwen wrote: [
I was over at my local GW to preorder and in the time that it took for me to add the damn book to cart and go to checkout, the book was sold out. I probably would have ended up having to get a softcover if the manager didn't hold a copy for me out of the extremely small amount of books he was allocated. He barely got a quarter of what Mikhaila was allocated to his two stores--and that's an official GW store getting shorted on their own product.
Do you understand that if a GW store doesn't have the books because the GWHQ keeps them, then that's still profit for... GW!
And that if Mike doesn't have the books to sell, then that's... no profit to Mike?
I really don't get what you're trying to say here. Both those things are obvious and no ones said otherwise...
Unless you can actually read Kanulwen suggesting that GW's manager was worse off than Mike... When GW's manager is benefiting from the copies sold by the company in relative terms, belonging to the company making the profit and will continue to be paid a salary. Whereas Mike, as an independent retailer, gains nothing from direct only sales and loses potential revenue.
You know, basic economics... Or maybe you don't know.
No I get that, but I don't think that was Kans point. I think his point was that there's so few printed even official stores get hardly any.
So...as opposed to, I don't know, doing something rational - like printing more...they cut the supply allocated to independents (and likely to their own retail stores) in hopes that it will end up with more sales through the website.
This isn't a situation where there is a real shortage of product. The supplier (GW) has full control over how many of them they produce. If they made 2000 of the previous book and sold out within a very short time...make 2500 of this one. It is really simple stuff for a manufacturer to deal with. It would be something else entirely if there was complex manufacturing or other issues in play...but it is a book. They have the layout, they have the supplier, they just need to change a line item on their PO for the printer.
Kanluwen wrote: [
I was over at my local GW to preorder and in the time that it took for me to add the damn book to cart and go to checkout, the book was sold out. I probably would have ended up having to get a softcover if the manager didn't hold a copy for me out of the extremely small amount of books he was allocated. He barely got a quarter of what Mikhaila was allocated to his two stores--and that's an official GW store getting shorted on their own product.
Do you understand that if a GW store doesn't have the books because the GWHQ keeps them, then that's still profit for... GW!
And that if Mike doesn't have the books to sell, then that's... no profit to Mike?
I really don't get what you're trying to say here. Both those things are obvious and no ones said otherwise...
Unless you can actually read Kanulwen suggesting that GW's manager was worse off than Mike... When GW's manager is benefiting from the copies sold by the company in relative terms, belonging to the company making the profit and will continue to be paid a salary. Whereas Mike, as an independent retailer, gains nothing from direct only sales and loses potential revenue.
You know, basic economics... Or maybe you don't know.
No I get that, but I don't think that was Kans point. I think his point was that there's so few printed even official stores get hardly any.
So...as opposed to, I don't know, doing something rational - like printing more...they cut the supply allocated to independents (and likely to their own retail stores) in hopes that it will end up with more sales through the website.
This isn't a situation where there is a real shortage of product. The supplier (GW) has full control over how many of them they produce. If they made 2000 of the previous book and sold out within a very short time...make 2500 of this one. It is really simple stuff for a manufacturer to deal with. It would be something else entirely if there was complex manufacturing or other issues in play...but it is a book. They have the layout, they have the supplier, they just need to change a line item on their PO for the printer.
No I agree with you... I was just saying what I assumed Kans point was, I agree they should just print more.
Gotta give it up to my FLGS, when i asked them about this they seemed pretty surprised too... Fantasy isn't big at our store but they've always fallen all over themselves to make sure me and my crew have whatever we want / need.
So they are going to hit the website on my behalf and try to order it up for me. Very classy. Seriously appreciate it.
I told them that if they can't get the 2 for me (one's a gift) that i preordered in hardback that i would understand it was not in any way their fault, and that was GW, and not to sweat it, that i appreciated them going the extra mile for me as a valued customer.
THey probably wont' be able to get it for me, but even still, the fact that the shop manager himself is going to go online and personally try to get my hardcovers for me is pretty awesome.
Kanluwen wrote: [
I was over at my local GW to preorder and in the time that it took for me to add the damn book to cart and go to checkout, the book was sold out. I probably would have ended up having to get a softcover if the manager didn't hold a copy for me out of the extremely small amount of books he was allocated. He barely got a quarter of what Mikhaila was allocated to his two stores--and that's an official GW store getting shorted on their own product.
Do you understand that if a GW store doesn't have the books because the GWHQ keeps them, then that's still profit for... GW!
And that if Mike doesn't have the books to sell, then that's... no profit to Mike?
I really don't get what you're trying to say here. Both those things are obvious and no ones said otherwise...
Unless you can actually read Kanulwen suggesting that GW's manager was worse off than Mike... When GW's manager is benefiting from the copies sold by the company in relative terms, belonging to the company making the profit and will continue to be paid a salary. Whereas Mike, as an independent retailer, gains nothing from direct only sales and loses potential revenue.
You know, basic economics... Or maybe you don't know.
No I get that, but I don't think that was Kans point. I think his point was that there's so few printed even official stores get hardly any.
So...as opposed to, I don't know, doing something rational - like printing more...they cut the supply allocated to independents (and likely to their own retail stores) in hopes that it will end up with more sales through the website.
This isn't a situation where there is a real shortage of product. The supplier (GW) has full control over how many of them they produce. If they made 2000 of the previous book and sold out within a very short time...make 2500 of this one. It is really simple stuff for a manufacturer to deal with. It would be something else entirely if there was complex manufacturing or other issues in play...but it is a book. They have the layout, they have the supplier, they just need to change a line item on their PO for the printer.
No I agree with you... I was just saying what I assumed Kans point was, I agree they should just print more.
I get that that is his point. It is just a very, very dumb point to make. The answer to not having enough stock is not to cut off your trade partners...it is to create more stock. You know, like regular manufacturers and publishers do.
To somehow think that it is justifiable because the one before, and the one before that sold out online so fast is...asinine. We aren't dealing with a commodity that they couldn't just have more added in at a moments notice. Heck, they could even just skip shipping stuff on the slow boat from the UK to the US, have their Chinese print shop ship directly to the US and probably still have gotten them with time to spare - even if the original print order was submitted months ago.
The whole End Times methods really point to GW not having much faith at all in what they are doing, and to planning on canning the whole of it once they make their bank off this round...otherwise, you know - I have heard from several of my friends in manufacturing that it is actually a good thing to have stock on hand to actually sell to customers who want to buy it.
I was at my flgs today asking the store owner about this.
He was pretty upset and said his sales rep and the other sales rep are angry too because all the store owners are angry and it makes no sense.
What's even more ridiculous is if I want the French version of the hardback he can order that but not the English version. That makes absolutely no sense at all.
Mikhaila, this is good news!
See it as an opportunity to push other systems with companies that are devoted to their customers.
And with the new Star wars movie around the corner, i think that X-wing, Imperial assault and the upcoming
Armada will do well.
Jehan-reznor wrote: Mikhaila, this is good news!
See it as an opportunity to push other systems with companies that are devoted to their customers.
And with the new Star wars movie around the corner, i think that X-wing, Imperial assault and the upcoming
Armada will do well.
No, not good news, but I understand what your trying to say. We actually do a lot already with Flames of War, Warmahordes, All quiet on the Martian Front, Historical games, and quite a few other miniature lines. Xwing sells great and we have a big group for it, you just can't get restocks right now. So we have all of this going on, plus magic, boardgame nights, and painting classes. And thats the game half of the store. Comics takes up the rest of the space. So a lot going on with non GW games and models.
but.....GW is still 15% of my business. (Down from 30% a few years ago). Just trimming it away hurts, as it isn't made up in the other lines quickly, or ever for the amount you lost. Growing those other games takes more than just disgruntled GW gamers.
Healthy game stores need to have a lot of different lines of products to appeal to lots of people. GW's still in the mix for now, because so many people still want GW models.
However, I think i'll be painting up more Martian Tripods at this weekends painting class.
Jehan-reznor wrote: Mikhaila, this is good news!
See it as an opportunity to push other systems with companies that are devoted to their customers.
And with the new Star wars movie around the corner, i think that X-wing, Imperial assault and the upcoming
Armada will do well.
No, not good news, but I understand what your trying to say. We actually do a lot already with Flames of War, Warmahordes, All quiet on the Martian Front, Historical games, and quite a few other miniature lines. Xwing sells great and we have a big group for it, you just can't get restocks right now. So we have all of this going on, plus magic, boardgame nights, and painting classes. And thats the game half of the store. Comics takes up the rest of the space. So a lot going on with non GW games and models.
but.....GW is still 15% of my business. (Down from 30% a few years ago). Just trimming it away hurts, as it isn't made up in the other lines quickly, or ever for the amount you lost. Growing those other games takes more than just disgruntled GW gamers.
Healthy game stores need to have a lot of different lines of products to appeal to lots of people. GW's still in the mix for now, because so many people still want GW models.
However, I think i'll be painting up more Martian Tripods at this weekends painting class.
I understand the dilemma, but the way GW is treating its "business partners" it will only become less and less over the following years.
At least at the group i venture, people also play malefic, warmachine and infinity, still trying to warm them up for Bolt-action and all quiet on the western front.
Getting extra copies printed and shipped isn't quite as quick or easy as some people think, you don't just ring up the printers in China and tell them to fire up the presses for another 5000 or whatever - these are small runs of minimal value to them, they fit around the big runs. Then there is shipping. By sea.
I see mention about other companies, but they are as bad or worse when it comes to supply - Hawk currently ran out if U.cM command cards , which are essential. Fantasy Flight can't keep any expansions in stock for long so you go without or pay crazy reseller price - Falcon currently £50 plus on ebay and that's on a bad day, Wyrd have certain sets out for order for months on end...... Warlord have entire sets disappear from their site...... GW just has a more vocal internet fan base IMO.
TwilightSparkles wrote: Getting extra copies printed and shipped isn't quite as quick or easy as some people think, you don't just ring up the printers in China and tell them to fire up the presses for another 5000 or whatever - these are small runs of minimal value to them, they fit around the big runs. Then there is shipping. By sea.
I see mention about other companies, but they are as bad or worse when it comes to supply - Hawk currently ran out if U.cM command cards , which are essential. Fantasy Flight can't keep any expansions in stock for long so you go without or pay crazy reseller price - Falcon currently £50 plus on ebay and that's on a bad day, Wyrd have certain sets out for order for months on end...... Warlord have entire sets disappear from their site...... GW just has a more vocal internet fan base IMO.
Do those other companies cut their suppliers off or do they provide them with stock when available?
Some of the "white knights" around here will spout anything to defend their beloved GW.
And some people on here are so incapable of reason that they dismiss any other opinion of white knighting.
It's a limited edition, so I'm suprised they were ever allowed through FLGS. The SC is there so people can play with the rules, the HC is meant to be a collectors item, why shouldn't a company keep those in house?
They are over-priced, but since you don't need a HC to play the game, noone is forcing you to buy it. However, if you want it, they GW are being clever by maximising revenue. It'll sell out, so maximise the profit and release the normal edition to all so the game isn't compromised.
If someone could have an adult debate on this without the white knight comments this place would be better.
Thank you, Division of Joy, for that unwarranted, immature attack.
I was referring to Captain Vyper's "riff-raff" comment.
I also see from your follow-up posts, and other posters points, that you appear not to have originally understood the posts and context in which I was posting.
..."incapable of reason..."? Hmmm - here's looking at you, kid.
Speaking as a FLGS owner its frustrating when you get releases like SoB: Exterminatus, but its just one of those things.
Obviously most people want the hardbacks if they can, we can get a limited quantity through the direct channel, but otherwise our intention is too just discount the softbacks offered under this sort of release model as heavily as is possible both online and in store on pre-release weekends to make the SB versions more appealing.
I know that there are lead times with printing. However, there must be small presses in the UK that could make more copies on short order. Given how much GW is charging for the books, they could still make a tidy profit.
Further, given that the first book came out in September and sold out quickly, they have had several months to order more hardbacks. They obviously did not do so. Sadly, this is GW and we have come to expect this sort of thing from them.
Well, recently I ordered Shield of Baal: Exterminatus from the website, and when I got into the store it hadn't come in yet, and the store owner offered to let me switch over to softcover and they'd keep my order when it came in.
...An offer I took enthusiastically, as why would I want to lug hardback books everywhere when I already need to haul two figure cases through public transport? Plus, mildly cheaper.
I definitely understand annoyance from people who got the Nagash and Glottkin books before it was announced softcover versions would be available and want to keep their collection all the one format. Otherwise though, quick releases for the softcover format seems like a good thing. Shame they didn't do that to begin with.
spaceelf, I'm not sure how familiar you are with the publishing industry, I'm not, but I do know a couple who are between them a published author and illustrator of childrens books.
They ran a kickstarter not so long ago and from the discussions I had with I did get a small insight, all the costs of publishing are essentially in setup, the different between 100 copies and 1000 was about £100 IIRC in the case of this couples work. Obviously they were not producing a large format full colour hardback, nor in the quantities which GW are dealing, but I would assume the scale of cost is comparable.
My point is that a small UK based print run would probably not be economically worthwhile, despite the fact there are so many people clamming for them.
Of course, by the same logic what they are doing with such limited hard back runs in the first place doesn't make sense either, but that's probably why they've outsourced the printing to China, so increasing lead times.
Will we get another run of HB, I doubt it somehow, afterall they've moved on to the next one, and increased the supply with the SC versions. So there is a supply, its just not whats preferential to everyone. I'd expect that the quantitiy available of future releases will be bigger though, much like the quantity of Deathstorm was higher then Stormclaw.
No-one sane prints colour in the UK if they want any profit (except DC Thomson). It's Far East + 3 months shipping on a boat if you want best cost price. In recent years Poland and Italy can rival Far East when you factor in cheaper (and quicker) shipping.
Some big book publishers print initial runs in the Far East, then reprint in the EU for speed of decision/turnaround time (ie commit to the reprint when needed, not anticipating i 3 months out), balanced with some economy.
No matter how and where you print, you have to want to. I have in the past organised limited editions with delibrately low print runs, expressly so they sell out. 1,000 copies of Philip Pullman books was insane, but it meant we sold 3,000 x £30 in one day with zero risk. On top of this, putting them all in one place to drive traffic is an age-old tactic (which I wish I'd done more).
So GW has no resupply issues, it doesn't want to print more from the off. It wants direct sales, to move habits to buying from them, and the quantity will be forecast so it definitely sells out and they're not sat on any stock. Odd to do if they're missing out on some sales, maybe, but the logic is zero risk and a quick bung of cash.
Odd to do if they're missing out on some sales, maybe, but the logic is zero risk and a quick bung of cash.
Exactly, which is consistent with the company being in a tight spot financially. There are longer term impacts from moves like this with GW because of the network effect impacting sales of their products. You don't want to sit on surplus stock of the rulebooks, and as a result piss off some of your customers, who don't buy/buy less miniatures and wind up playing less/not playing which negatively impacts both your marketing and the overall value of all of your products.
TwilightSparkles wrote: Getting extra copies printed and shipped isn't quite as quick or easy as some people think, you don't just ring up the printers in China and tell them to fire up the presses for another 5000 or whatever - these are small runs of minimal value to them, they fit around the big runs. Then there is shipping. By sea.
I see mention about other companies, but they are as bad or worse when it comes to supply - Hawk currently ran out if U.cM command cards , which are essential. Fantasy Flight can't keep any expansions in stock for long so you go without or pay crazy reseller price - Falcon currently £50 plus on ebay and that's on a bad day, Wyrd have certain sets out for order for months on end...... Warlord have entire sets disappear from their site...... GW just has a more vocal internet fan base IMO.
Hawk is currently a victim of their success (at least I think), the plastic starters being shipped right around the same time as the new faction created demand they weren't ready for. I'm not certain if you were trying to order direct, but I know in the US at least the primary distributor seems to chronically under order stock.
For the record, the UCM command cards are pretty weak too . There's a reason there's a movement in UCM players to keep a minimal commander and just buy more toys.
I was told that they printed all the books at once, but also printed less of each book in the series. So book 5 will have the lowest print run.
Because no one likes to read the end of the story......
The end of the story that may lead to 9th edition? Maybe they'll have a nice fat HC edition to go along with 9th editon explaining it all.
9th edition will probably be just copy/paste of these books all together with two pages of rules that contradict each other. With the obligatory section on the HHHHHHHHobby.
9th edition will probably be just copy/paste of these books all together with two pages of rules that contradict each other. With the obligatory section on the HHHHHHHHobby.
You forgot that it will have an even smaller print run.
9th edition will probably be just copy/paste of these books all together with two pages of rules that contradict each other. With the obligatory section on the HHHHHHHHobby.
You forgot that it will have an even smaller print run.
And no-one will be supplied any, let alone enough to pass on to customers...
9th edition will probably be just copy/paste of these books all together with two pages of rules that contradict each other. With the obligatory section on the HHHHHHHHobby.
You forgot that it will have an even smaller print run.
And no-one will be supplied any, let alone enough to pass on to customers...
But we will get "leaked" pictures with too much flash that were taken by someone having a seizure.
These were planned months, almost a year ago, to help revitalize the dying product line. The sent all the info to China for the cost of printing the hardcovers were smaller. But to get the lowest cost of shipping, they had to order a maxed minimum. The moment they all sold out, GW learned how much interest the fans still had. The problem fell with us always "boohooing" and crying how we all "disliked practices." The online only deal is also to help hobbyists get one instead of some random dude buying 10 then ebaying them for overcost, happened with nagash and glotkin.
All this will do is make the 4 and 5th books cost even MORE on ebay. In addition, I know that if I cant get the 4th book in HC, I will sell off all three of my other books on Ebay and not look back. Im already scaling back my collection (from having to have an extra bedroom just for all of it) to just 2 armies in each (WHFB, 40k). Depending on how badly they butcher 9th, they may push me over to abandon them wholly and only keep one painted army of each for when the occasional garage game springs up. I enjoy painting the most anyway, I'll just paint and sell
Spaz431 wrote: These were planned months, almost a year ago, to help revitalize the dying product line. The sent all the info to China for the cost of printing the hardcovers were smaller. But to get the lowest cost of shipping, they had to order a maxed minimum. The moment they all sold out, GW learned how much interest the fans still had. The problem fell with us always "boohooing" and crying how we all "disliked practices." The online only deal is also to help hobbyists get one instead of some random dude buying 10 then ebaying them for overcost, happened with nagash and glotkin.
I don't see at all how this helps hobbyists get the book. People can buy them and flip them from Mailorder just as easy as getting them from stores. The only difference i see is that the hobbyists who bought the first 3 from stores are pissed they probably can't complete their set without going to SC. GW encouraged me to get pre-orders for the earlier books. I did so for the last two. Now i'll have the joy of telling hobbyists who wanted the books and committed early that i didn't get them.
After 25 years of dealing with GW, i know the pattern. They make a decision. Then they make up reasons to back the decision.
"Stop the Scalpers" isn't the reason.
Neither is "this conveniently puts all the books in one place".
It was done because they make more money doing it this way. Pure and simple.
Think about it:
-How many times in the last few years have you seen GW worry about hobbyists? GT's? GamesDays? 'Ardboyz? Global Campaigns? Nothing.
-Now think of how many times and ways GW has made a decision that makes them money.
The Division Of Joy wrote: Book and dice available from my FLGS, the over reactions in here are amazing.
Why is that?
That you and your experience of a massive sample of one FLGS is in some way more accurate than many others having a contrary view?
Because people have been bleating and moaning over something that isn't true 100%. If my FLGS can get them from GW then so can others, that's obvious.
What an independent in the UK can get is not going to necessarily be the same as what an independent in the US can get.
Plus the dice were not going to be restricted to webstore only like "End Times: Thanquol" was.
And you might want to double-check because "The End Times: Rise of the Horned Rat" is a book coming out at the same time and it is not "End Times: Thanquol".
The Division Of Joy wrote: Book and dice available from my FLGS, the over reactions in here are amazing.
Why is that?
That you and your experience of a massive sample of one FLGS is in some way more accurate than many others having a contrary view?
Because people have been bleating and moaning over something that isn't true 100%. If my FLGS can get them from GW then so can others, that's obvious.
What an independent in the UK can get is not going to necessarily be the same as what an independent in the US can get.
Plus the dice were not going to be restricted to webstore only like "End Times: Thanquol" was.
And you might want to double-check because "The End Times: Rise of the Horned Rat" is a book coming out at the same time and it is not "End Times: Thanquol".
Seconded. My LGS was on the phone for 2 hours on hold / on the line with their rep for the 4 people at our store that pre-ordered and wanted to make sure they were getting hardbacks. At first it was "no they are getting softbacks, if they want hardbacks you/they will have to jump on the site like everyone else".
After what i'm sure was a pretty spirited discussion (note, in the five states that are within 3 hours driving distance from me, there is exactly 1 GW store, and it's about 97 miles away, so if they want to sell product in this part of New England, they are relying independents of one shape or another more than likely), the rep was able to figure out enough copies for the 4 of us.
So that's not exactly as easy peasy as DoJ is making it seem like any other product "Oh, i want that". "Sure, np, it'll be in in 10 days".
Seconded. My LGS was on the phone for 2 hours on hold / on the line with their rep for the 4 people at our store that pre-ordered and wanted to make sure they were getting hardbacks. At first it was "no they are getting softbacks, if they want hardbacks you/they will have to jump on the site like everyone else".
After what i'm sure was a pretty spirited discussion (note, in the five states that are within 3 hours driving distance from me, there is exactly 1 GW store, and it's about 97 miles away, so if they want to sell product in this part of New England, they are relying independents of one shape or another more than likely), the rep was able to figure out enough copies for the 4 of us.
So that's not exactly as easy peasy as DoJ is making it seem like any other product "Oh, i want that". "Sure, np, it'll be in in 10 days".
Anecdotal - my FLGS worked the phones [once they came back online at GW Memphis] and was able to get multiple copies of the hardback. The Glottkin, Khaine, and now Thanquol releases have required him to take extraordinary measures to simply have stock for some of us in the area.
My friend who owns a game store said he had to do the direct order from GW, but he is getting a couple. Direct order meaning it'll cost a bit more for him, but not full price. Or he already got them. Or w/e. I don't remember. I'll double check tomorrow and fill you guys in. I don't remember the release date.
timetowaste85 wrote: My friend who owns a game store said he had to do the direct order from GW, but he is getting a couple. Direct order meaning it'll cost a bit more for him, but not full price. Or he already got them. Or w/e. I don't remember. I'll double check tomorrow and fill you guys in. I don't remember the release date.
This is exactly what we had to do at my store. We were informed about what time the books would go up on the website, then we simply had to log on and buy the HCs as a direct item, which basically means we as a retailer don't get as much off as we would on a regular item. Kind of crappy, but at least we were able to get a bunch of the books.
Ok...to address a few other comments that have been made in this thread.
Local GW stores:
If an item is ordered for and paid for in a local GW store, the money goes toward that local GW store profits. Keeping the lights on, paying the manager's salary..all that jazz. If you order something from the website and ship it to a local GW store, the local GW store gets zip for keeping the place open.
Local GW Store: for any sort of release item, the preorders will change the amount that they get in stock. However, the number they are allotted to begin with, can be super small, especially if it's a new /young/lower money making GW store. For many of the last big book releases, a new/young GW store will get like 2 books, maybe 3.
Going back to the whole Void Shield Generator thing, last year in March? ...they were sold out on the website before you could even buy them. If you were a GW employee or standing in a GW store trying to buy one, you were .
GW stores cannot put out the white dwarf or any other item early. It has to go out on a saturday (release day).
GW stores cannot advertise. They're not even allowed to put up a sign (outside of the storefront sign) if they're in like a big shopping mall plaza.
(Why GW doesn't put the white dwarf one week ahead of time is stupid....along with a number of things they do. I'd swear, there's a few things they could change a make a ton more money..at least it appears that way).
Over the last few months, the time for books selling out has been like this:
(These are regular hard copy editions)
Glottkin: 4-5 hours.
Khaine: 2 and half minutes. Limited to 2 per customer.
Shield of Baal: Leviathan: Within the hour.
Shield of Baal: Exterminatus: Within the hour. Limited to 1 per customer.
Thanqol and the Dice were limited to 1 per customer.
Nagash was reprinted at least once in hardback and sold out again. (possibly twice, I can't recall).
It was after glottkin that they decided they were going to start doing softcovers.
I have stood there at the order point inside a GW more than once, had an item in my cart and couldn't check out with because it was sold out.
So depending on where the customer base is, Customers, are getting screwed, one way or another.
Seconded. My LGS was on the phone for 2 hours on hold / on the line with their rep for the 4 people at our store that pre-ordered and wanted to make sure they were getting hardbacks. At first it was "no they are getting softbacks, if they want hardbacks you/they will have to jump on the site like everyone else".
After what i'm sure was a pretty spirited discussion (note, in the five states that are within 3 hours driving distance from me, there is exactly 1 GW store, and it's about 97 miles away, so if they want to sell product in this part of New England, they are relying independents of one shape or another more than likely), the rep was able to figure out enough copies for the 4 of us.
So that's not exactly as easy peasy as DoJ is making it seem like any other product "Oh, i want that". "Sure, np, it'll be in in 10 days".
Seconded. My LGS was on the phone for 2 hours on hold / on the line with their rep for the 4 people at our store that pre-ordered and wanted to make sure they were getting hardbacks. At first it was "no they are getting softbacks, if they want hardbacks you/they will have to jump on the site like everyone else".
After what i'm sure was a pretty spirited discussion (note, in the five states that are within 3 hours driving distance from me, there is exactly 1 GW store, and it's about 97 miles away, so if they want to sell product in this part of New England, they are relying independents of one shape or another more than likely), the rep was able to figure out enough copies for the 4 of us.
So that's not exactly as easy peasy as DoJ is making it seem like any other product "Oh, i want that". "Sure, np, it'll be in in 10 days".
Was that yesterday?
Because yesterday their site exploded...
No, Friday.
his post was on Saturday, so yesterday then was Friday.
No. Just no, I get your mad but this is wrong & ill informed.
It's not a money grab. it's due to the large backlash when Khaine sold out in under 2 minutes. It sold out before the notification email was sent. Rerunning a hardbound book takes time, time they didn't have so to avoid another PR gak storm like what happened when Khaine dropped GW decided to hold hardbacks for themselves. I mean social media lit up with hate, podcasters are still venting their frustrations over it, it was a mess.
It was to avoid another load of bad PR not a money grab, a money grab would be holding ALL (hard and soft) copies for themselves.
EDIT: I don't know turnaround time on a hardcover but if you take into account the queue in front of the book you want, the production time, packaging time, shipping time out of china via cargo ship, breakdown of bulk order, shipping to distributors, shipping to stores it can easily take months.
The hard backs are what, £50 each, so by selling direct they make an extra 40% (£20 each). I really don't believe they care about the backlash of something selling out so quickly, if anything they'd use that to drive faster sales. I do believe though, that they saw how successful it was and decided to keep the whole pie to themselves.
GW caring more about their customers than money? That'll never happen. Besides, this move probably caused even more nerd rage due to people who use FLGS's getting shafted.
I don't need a citation it's common sense. I'm not saying extra money wasn't a factor but it wasn't a PURE money grab as OP claims.
Bad PR is bad for business many people flat out said "If I can't get hardcover I'm not buying one" which means some people might not even check the site for book IV and just said F it. There were talks on podcasts of people just putting their hardbacks up on ebay and being done with end times (further decreasing sales) Every decision GW (or almost any for-profit company) makes ultimately comes down to "How much will this make or lose us?"
Yes money played a factor but no it wasn't a PURE cash grab it was also to mitigate bad PR which in turn affects business revenue. So it does all come down to $$ (just like any other business) and call it a cash grab if you want, I see it as damage control.
Herzlos wrote: Since when has GW shown any common sense?
Getting rid of finecast.
Herzlos wrote: And would they really try and avoid upsetting customer A by upsetting customer B instead? I think you're giving them far too much credit.
If it increases revenue yes. Welcome to the world of publically traded companies where decisions are made by out of touch old men & the customers feelings don't really matter, as long as they keep buying.
Again I admit it was ultimately about trying to get more money (As is every decision they make) but it was also about PR damage control.
If it wasn't a money grab they would announce a second printing and take orders for that as a online sale and supply the stores with the copies they have.
Shas'O Dorian wrote: I don't need a citation it's common sense. I'm not saying extra money wasn't a factor but it wasn't a PURE money grab as OP claims.
Bad PR is bad for business many people flat out said "If I can't get hardcover I'm not buying one" which means some people might not even check the site for book IV and just said F it. There were talks on podcasts of people just putting their hardbacks up on ebay and being done with end times (further decreasing sales) Every decision GW (or almost any for-profit company) makes ultimately comes down to "How much will this make or lose us?"
Yes money played a factor but no it wasn't a PURE cash grab it was also to mitigate bad PR which in turn affects business revenue. So it does all come down to $$ (just like any other business) and call it a cash grab if you want, I see it as damage control.
GW had some options, but they chose the one the one that made them the most money in the short term and screwed stores doing business with them, and the customers of those stores. GW has always been about the money. But they used to think long term, not short term. They used to value stores selling their product, not their own website.
They mitigated some bad pr, gained bad pr with stores. Its a wash. All that's left is the cashgrab.
Herzlos wrote: Since when has GW shown any common sense?
Getting rid of finecast.
They still have finecast, they've just generally made it online only so it's harder to check/return.
By that loigic, they still have metal miniatures too. Eldar Farseers, for example.
Finecast and metal are just outdated models that haven't yet been replaced. They aren't stocked at stores, because they are obsolete, and finecast causes too many problems for local stores. GW's replacement policies, by the way, are excellent; the best in the industry as far as I'm concerned. Take a picture of a bad or damaged piece, and you'll get it replaced by FedEx within a few days, with no hassle at all. I have emailed them many times on both plastic and finecast (sometimes a piece is broken in a box set). Once, I even emailed them on a damaged sprue on a box I bought more than a year prior that I just had never opened, and they sent me a replacement right away.
In a couple of cases, I've had a whole sprue sent to me, when only part of it was damaged.
Shas'O Dorian wrote: I don't need a citation it's common sense. I'm not saying extra money wasn't a factor but it wasn't a PURE money grab as OP claims.
Bad PR is bad for business many people flat out said "If I can't get hardcover I'm not buying one" which means some people might not even check the site for book IV and just said F it. There were talks on podcasts of people just putting their hardbacks up on ebay and being done with end times (further decreasing sales) Every decision GW (or almost any for-profit company) makes ultimately comes down to "How much will this make or lose us?"
Yes money played a factor but no it wasn't a PURE cash grab it was also to mitigate bad PR which in turn affects business revenue. So it does all come down to $$ (just like any other business) and call it a cash grab if you want, I see it as damage control.
So, a man that owns two FLGS's is telling you that he now has a soured relationship with GW as do many other FLGS's and that's not bad PR? What do you think will happen the next time someone comes into his/their store(s) and expresses an interest in tabletop gaming? I'll give you a hint, it won't be, "Let me show you the fine products from GW!" More like, "I'd show you GW products but they stopped letting me carry their products so how about some Privateer Press?" The silly thing is how last-minute this whole thing is. If they thought they were going to sell out that quickly, they could have ordered a larger printing or communicated in some form before-hand with FLGS's to soften the blow but nope, didn't happen.
I'll be back in a moment, I'm going to go find some wax for that untarnished armor you're wearing.
Shas'O Dorian wrote: I don't need a citation it's common sense. I'm not saying extra money wasn't a factor but it wasn't a PURE money grab as OP claims.
Bad PR is bad for business many people flat out said "If I can't get hardcover I'm not buying one" which means some people might not even check the site for book IV and just said F it. There were talks on podcasts of people just putting their hardbacks up on ebay and being done with end times (further decreasing sales) Every decision GW (or almost any for-profit company) makes ultimately comes down to "How much will this make or lose us?"
Yes money played a factor but no it wasn't a PURE cash grab it was also to mitigate bad PR which in turn affects business revenue. So it does all come down to $$ (just like any other business) and call it a cash grab if you want, I see it as damage control.
So, a man that owns two FLGS's is telling you that he now has a soured relationship with GW as do many other FLGS's and that's not bad PR? What do you think will happen the next time someone comes into his/their store(s) and expresses an interest in tabletop gaming? I'll give you a hint, it won't be, "Let me show you the fine products from GW!" More like, "I'd show you GW products but they stopped letting me carry their products so how about some Privateer Press?" The silly thing is how last-minute this whole thing is. If they thought they were going to sell out that quickly, they could have ordered a larger printing or communicated in some form before-hand with FLGS's to soften the blow but nope, didn't happen.
I'll be back in a moment, I'm going to go find some wax for that untarnished armor you're wearing.
it is bad PR as well but a few angry retailers is LESS bad than dozens of podacasters with hundreds of listeners & social media reaching thousands. it was a lose-lose they just made a decision to minimize the damage. My LGSes don't care that they aren't getting HC they're happy to have SC as it means they won't run out.
There are many people without a LGS and instead play in local clubs and all order online. it was going to be bad one way or the other, pissing off a portion of retailers is less bad than creating another social media gak storm affecting thousands if not tens of thousands.
Upsetting the people selling your product is not less bad than upsetting the people buying your product. Even if it was to delay the Web store selling out, it might buy the them a few minutes.
Herzlos wrote: Upsetting the people selling your product is not less bad than upsetting the people buying your product. Even if it was to delay the Web store selling out, it might buy the them a few minutes.
Yes. It is. If you upset the people BUYING your product the people selling it will no longer CARRY your product. The end buyer can still order direct of their site pissing off the end user is probably the single worst thing you can do.
Think about it, The flow goes User & Money <<<Models/Money>>> Distributors <<<Models/Money>>> GW. if you remove distributors it will decrease sales but it still leaves users& Money<<<Models/Money>>>GW & Models
if you remove users you get Nothing, as no distributor will stock a product that doesn't sell.
Herzlos wrote: Upsetting the people selling your product is not less bad than upsetting the people buying your product. Even if it was to delay the Web store selling out, it might buy the them a few minutes.
Yes. It is. If you upset the people BUYING your product the people selling it will no longer CARRY your product. The end buyer can still order direct of their site pissing off the end user is probably the single worst thing you can do.
Think about it, The flow goes User & Money <<<Models/Money>>> Distributors <<<Models/Money>>> GW. if you remove distributors it will decrease sales but it still leaves users& Money<<<Models/Money>>>GW & Models
if you remove users you get Nothing, as no distributor will stock a product that doesn't sell.
Miniature Market became large enough to ignore GW and their hijinks and now no longer carries their products. An example of how large retailers can tell the company to go play someplace else. Since they are a very large FLGS as well in a large market (St. Louis), guess where GW products are not being purchased?
Miniature Market became large enough to ignore GW and their hijinks and now no longer carries their products. An example of how large retailers can tell the company to go play someplace else. Since they are a very large FLGS as well in a large market (St. Louis), guess where GW products are not being purchased?
There are other retailers. I'm not saying it won't affect them I'm saying they chose the lesser of 2 evils.
Herzlos wrote: Upsetting the people selling your product is not less bad than upsetting the people buying your product. Even if it was to delay the Web store selling out, it might buy the them a few minutes.
Yes. It is. If you upset the people BUYING your product the people selling it will no longer CARRY your product. The end buyer can still order direct of their site pissing off the end user is probably the single worst thing you can do.
Think about it, The flow goes User & Money <<<Models/Money>>> Distributors <<<Models/Money>>> GW. if you remove distributors it will decrease sales but it still leaves users& Money<<<Models/Money>>>GW & Models
if you remove users you get Nothing, as no distributor will stock a product that doesn't sell.
Miniature Market became large enough to ignore GW and their hijinks and now no longer carries their products. An example of how large retailers can tell the company to go play someplace else. Since they are a very large FLGS as well in a large market (St. Louis), guess where GW products are not being purchased?
I live two miles from their store, and have four or five comic/game stores within 15 minutes, all of whom sell GW products....at full retail. GW is sold in saint Louis, and doing fine. Although many other games are also doing well. There's also a GW store about 40 minutes away.
Never said GW was dead in StL. I am never able to understand how people continue to attempt to spin loss of market presence as anything but a bad thing. Sure, they have some stores that turn over a relatively small amount of inventory but volume of salea is where businesses make money, not places primarily dedicated to Magic like Game Nite, comic shops or a tiny GW. When a place like Miniature Market stops selling your miniature game, you have issues.
Not sure if this is even on topic but it is on the topic of original post.
It makes sense for them to pull them from local game store, it is their best seller "that I lived through" and all these store are selling at a discount "which pissed them off online".. So by making them direct only HC is easy math.
People who bought all HC to date will want complete collection and other local game store probably still have some in stock not making money so.
Now people will say well people would not buy it because they want dicount or what ever well they probably did the math.
If they sell 600 at X- 20% because stores give a discount = Y amount of money
Now if they sell 500 at X = They break even with if they gave to Local game stores and still have 100 more to sell.
Now since some stores give a 20% discount they obviously get a better discount then that so games workshop would get even a smaller cut well gimping their own stores who have them in stock.
Unfortunately, we really don't have the information to base any sort of 'Best Seller' claims on.
We do know that they sell out, and apparently somewhat quickly (not sure how many, if any are still in stores...). However, we don't know the size of the print runs. It may just be a(nother) example of GW not knowing their customer base at all.
If they are printing 1000 copies, and 2000 people want it - that isn't really an example of an item being their best seller...it really just shows how disconnected they are. Their best seller would have been the Space Hulk game from a few years back (not this time around...as I have heard that it has fallen a bit flat from where they were expecting it to be).
Even worse than that though is that because they are so disconnected from their customers, the 1000 copies will end up costing them in the end. Shipments get lost, damaged or otherwise don't make it to their end users. Book bindings are broken, glued together pages or otherwise defective. GW is obligated to make those issues right, and without actually having any stock on hand - they can't.
Shas'O Dorian wrote: I don't need a citation it's common sense. I'm not saying extra money wasn't a factor but it wasn't a PURE money grab as OP claims.
Bad PR is bad for business many people flat out said "If I can't get hardcover I'm not buying one" which means some people might not even check the site for book IV and just said F it. There were talks on podcasts of people just putting their hardbacks up on ebay and being done with end times (further decreasing sales) Every decision GW (or almost any for-profit company) makes ultimately comes down to "How much will this make or lose us?"
Yes money played a factor but no it wasn't a PURE cash grab it was also to mitigate bad PR which in turn affects business revenue. So it does all come down to $$ (just like any other business) and call it a cash grab if you want, I see it as damage control.
GW had some options, but they chose the one the one that made them the most money in the short term and screwed stores doing business with them, and the customers of those stores. GW has always been about the money. But they used to think long term, not short term. They used to value stores selling their product, not their own website.
They mitigated some bad pr, gained bad pr with stores. Its a wash. All that's left is the cashgrab.
I don't know if they really mitigated any bad PR. The items will still be difficult to get online (most likely) and that will mean that plenty of people will not get copies who want them. You will still see it show up on eBay for sale at above retail, sort of a given with any product now - especially those in relatively short supply. All of that doesn't do well to stop the consumer PR issue.
It definitely gains bad PR with stores, but it also creates additional bad PR that they didn't have before - the B&M store consumer. There are still a lot of people who buy locally - because that is what they do. They dutifully have preordered through their local store and were confident that they would receive the product, just as they have done for the past 20 years... Now, they find out that they won't...but they can go online and try to get a copy that way. I doubt that you will find many store owners who are willing to take the bullet for GW on this sort of thing, so the blame and bad PR from this new disgruntled customer group is going to rest squarely at the feet of GW.
What GW does get though is 35-50% - ish. Ish, because they have to pay for shipping and additional logistics labor for individual orders which is greater than if they shipped to stores (per unit).
Fingers crossed that it ends up backfiring on them and they have a pile of books at the end of this with no one who actually wants them.
My local retailer posted a message today to apologize to all the folks who'd preordered a hardback copy of book 4 of the End Times. Apparently GW switched them all out for softcover copies and didn't even bother informing the store. The store itself is eating the cost and GIVING these gamers the softcover editions for free.
My local retailer posted a message today to apologize to all the folks who'd preordered a hardback copy of book 4 of the End Times. Apparently GW switched them all out for softcover copies and didn't even bother informing the store. The store itself is eating the cost and GIVING these gamers the softcover editions for free.
I posted this in the other group, but I'll post it here. This was an awful situation, but was easy enough to work around. Stores that managed to order a few got credited the margin difference from ordering direct, so theres that. A little legwork needed our store 50 copies of the HC
Sergeant Horse wrote: I posted this in the other group, but I'll post it here. This was an awful situation, but was easy enough to work around. Stores that managed to order a few got credited the margin difference from ordering direct, so theres that. A little legwork needed our store 50 copies of the HC
I've only been to it once, but their store is pretty dang awesome if you ever get the chance to go.
Sergeant Horse wrote: I posted this in the other group, but I'll post it here. This was an awful situation, but was easy enough to work around. Stores that managed to order a few got credited the margin difference from ordering direct, so theres that. A little legwork needed our store 50 copies of the HC
Is there that big of a fantasy community at gigas? Are those all hardcovers? I'm not a fantasy player so haven't been keeping up with the end times except for the occasional plot recap.
Sergeant Horse wrote: I posted this in the other group, but I'll post it here. This was an awful situation, but was easy enough to work around. Stores that managed to order a few got credited the margin difference from ordering direct, so theres that. A little legwork needed our store 50 copies of the HC
Is there that big of a fantasy community at gigas? Are those all hardcovers? I'm not a fantasy player so haven't been keeping up with the end times except for the occasional plot recap.
There sure is, about 30 are sold so far and all are Hardcover copies
Wow - that's insane that you could get 50! Great for your local player base, and well done on your part as the retailer. Sucks that most retailers couldn't do this though, with all the hoops to jump through.
Kanluwen wrote: And yet my local GW couldn't get a single damn copy to put on the shelves.
A lot of that goes to the new and improved GW logistics system. They go through and randomly assign stock to the Eurozone, Australia (not sure if you guys even have your own warehouse anymore...) and Memphis. Most likely they over assigned stock to the UK and under assigned stock to the US. As opposed to paying a bit of air freight to correct the issue - they send 50 copies to Ireland (not besmirching them for it).
If they want to play the just in time logistics game, they need to have the legs for it. GW doesn't, which is why they have so many of the issues they have relating to stock since they cut Memphis to the bone.
Kanluwen wrote: And yet my local GW couldn't get a single damn copy to put on the shelves.
A lot of that goes to the new and improved GW logistics system. They go through and randomly assign stock to the Eurozone, Australia (not sure if you guys even have your own warehouse anymore...) and Memphis. Most likely they over assigned stock to the UK and under assigned stock to the US. As opposed to paying a bit of air freight to correct the issue - they send 50 copies to Ireland (not besmirching them for it).
If they want to play the just in time logistics game, they need to have the legs for it. GW doesn't, which is why they have so many of the issues they have relating to stock since they cut Memphis to the bone.
Kanluwen wrote: And yet my local GW couldn't get a single damn copy to put on the shelves.
A lot of that goes to the new and improved GW logistics system. They go through and randomly assign stock to the Eurozone, Australia (not sure if you guys even have your own warehouse anymore...) and Memphis. Most likely they over assigned stock to the UK and under assigned stock to the US. As opposed to paying a bit of air freight to correct the issue - they send 50 copies to Ireland (not besmirching them for it).
If they want to play the just in time logistics game, they need to have the legs for it. GW doesn't, which is why they have so many of the issues they have relating to stock since they cut Memphis to the bone.
That store is in Marietta, Georgia not Ireland...
it sure is I just happen to BE Irish, so still that luck,( and 3 and a half hours on the GW website ordering.)
. There's a reason there's a movement in UCM players to keep a minimal commander and just buy more toys.
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