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 Kirasu wrote:

 mikhaila wrote:
I've been informed that i will recieve zero of the Thanquol HC next week for my stores. If you want it, you have to get it from GW direct.

Pure money grab. They were happy as hell to my money for the first 3. Now I and all other stores get the softcover edition.

Truly the end times are here. Mostly what was left of my relationship with GW

Wow, pretty crazy.. Without local stores GW may as well leave the US. I seriously don't understand their business plan.

Make a lot of money and a giant mess, then retire and someone else can clean it up.

 Kirasu wrote:

Wow, pretty crazy.. Without local stores GW may as well leave the US. I seriously don't understand their business plan.

I honestly think that this 'business plan' is someone at the very end of the line making every single decision based on "If I do this, we get this tiny amount more money".

I'm not criticizing the sculptors, or the writers, or the artists. I think that most of them do a great job, day in and day out. I might disagree with them, but ultimately, I don't think they are working in bad faith, or phoning it it.

On the other hand, some idiot at GW is making these boneheaded decisions at the last minute, discounting EVERYTHING else that has been done in the entire line from concept to production, because they perceive an opportunity to squeeze one more penny out of a particular transaction. They are discounted the time and money already invested in the project, and the effect that this decision will have on game stores, gamers, and collectors, but I'm sure they have a spreadsheet that shows how great their idea is.

GW conceived these books, wrote them, assembled models and art for them, got them printed and shipped, and THEN decides, on the FOURTH BOOK, to change the distribution method? Some idiot somewhere thought it would make him look smart.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Out of curiosity, how many copies of Khaine did you get?

Bit less than 20 between the two stores, closer to 30 on Glottkin.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Relapse wrote:

 mikhaila wrote:
I've been informed that i will recieve zero of the Thanquol HC next week for my stores. If you want it, you have to get it from GW direct.

Pure money grab. They were happy as hell to my money for the first 3. Now I and all other stores get the softcover edition.

Truly the end times are here. Mostly what was left of my relationship with GW

Didn't you in the long ago, tour the main offices of GW? If that was you, then you are right, it is the end times. All those years ago, they were a civil crew to their fans.

Many tours of offices, warehouse, casting areas, etc. Sales conferences, get togethers, and "come down for lunch on Thursday". I still have contact with many of the people who were in charge of GW US, back in the day. Many of them are selling some pretty good games. Ernie Baker is running Architects of War and has Ed Spettigue and Jaimee Pirazola with him. John Mattews and I get in some WFB now and then, he runs Battlefronts US operations. Very good people, who loved to game and model and talk warhammer. I was a major proponent of GW for years. Part of me still is, and weeps to see what a cluster..uh..badword...that they are turning it into now.

You shall not see men of their stature at Games Workshop today. The blood of heroes has run thin. It is the End Times![b]

So you've gone from 20 to 0? Yikes...

 mikhaila wrote:
Without local stores GW may as well leave the US. I seriously don't understand their business plan.

I don''t think GW understand their business plan, either, assuming they actually have a business plan...

"Premium Product at a Premium Price" This was the buzz phrase being toss around on the the "Training Meetings" a year ago or so ago. When employees were asking questions about how to attempt to answer customer questions about the prices. "If everyone could get it why would anyone want it?" another statement/answer that was uttered. "Why do you thinkFW does so well? Its a Premium Product for the elite collector, it creates its own status, not everyone can afford itor get it so everyone wants it." That one too. I just walked away and stopped trying to ask any more questions at that point. The absolute disregard for anything other than the profit margin is alive and well. And sadly working like a champ!

In partial defense I will bastardize a quote from another Dakka Member I read years ago but sadly can not remember his name. " I am OK with the fact its a bit expensive to play GW, it keeps the riff-raff out. If I wanted to play with homeless people I would go to a soup kitchen." I spit soda on my PC screen after reading that so you could say it stuck with me.

GW just seems to have multiple personality disorder. No FW in shops, ok in bunkers. OK now no Bunkers. No FW books outside of cons and FW direct, ok in GW shops. Ok not in GW shops any more. Build a community and get them to come to the shop weekly. Community is a bad word we must not say community. Lets help you understand this by making the shops smaller and pulling tables out of ones that have more than 2. It goes on and on.

So selling a few hardbacks to FLGS and then pulling the rug out from under them is so not surprising. Super Sad but not surprising.

GW can't allow those FLGS (Filthy Little Gaming Stores) depreciate their goods by selling them less than KSSP (Kirby's Silly Set Price).

 Accolade wrote:
I'd been giving some consideration to starting up WHFB, of which I've been finding a greater level of interest in as I've gotten older and my frustration with the state of 40k increases. I gave up buying anything GW produces that is "Direct-only" a while ago, as the only way I feel comfortable supporting them is through independents.

I was thinking of doing a dwarf army and a mini skaven force to play them against. However, with the inability to pick up the End Times book I'm most interested in via an independent, it seems that my plans may end up going by the wayside.

Unless you're chained to a GW store (and you're not), you don't even need Warhammer to play skaven and old world dwarfs, let alone End Times books.

 Captain Vyper wrote:
In partial defense I will bastardize a quote from another Dakka Member I read years ago but sadly can not remember his name. " I am OK with the fact its a bit expensive to play GW, it keeps the riff-raff out. If I wanted to play with homeless people I would go to a soup kitchen." I spit soda on my PC screen after reading that so you could say it stuck with me.

I wish I thought you were exaggerating, but I'm sure you're not.

Some of the "white knights" around here will spout anything to defend their beloved GW.

 Padre wrote:

Some of the "white knights" around here will spout anything to defend their beloved GW.

And some people on here are so incapable of reason that they dismiss any other opinion of white knighting.

It's a limited edition, so I'm suprised they were ever allowed through FLGS. The SC is there so people can play with the rules, the HC is meant to be a collectors item, why shouldn't a company keep those in house?

They are over-priced, but since you don't need a HC to play the game, noone is forcing you to buy it. However, if you want it, they GW are being clever by maximising revenue. It'll sell out, so maximise the profit and release the normal edition to all so the game isn't compromised.

If someone could have an adult debate on this without the white knight comments this place would be better.

The Division Of Joy wrote:

 Padre wrote:

Some of the "white knights" around here will spout anything to defend their beloved GW.

And some people on here are so incapable of reason that they dismiss any other opinion of white knighting.

It's a limited edition, so I'm suprised they were ever allowed through FLGS. The SC is there so people can play with the rules, the HC is meant to be a collectors item, why shouldn't a company keep those in house?

They are over-priced, but since you don't need a HC to play the game, noone is forcing you to buy it. However, if you want it, they GW are being clever by maximising revenue. It'll sell out, so maximise the profit and release the normal edition to all so the game isn't compromised.

If someone could have an adult debate on this without the white knight comments this place would be better.

Except that white knight comment was about a different quote, not about anything said here.

It's all well and good saying 'it's Limited Edition' but when the End Times stuff started, not once did they say anything about Limited Edition. It took til like the third book til they even mentioned that. Had they communicated from the start the Hardbacks were limited edition it would be different, in my opinion.

They really didnt say it was a limited run at all?

Nope. I tried to get Nagash later and emailed to ask when it would be back in stock and it was only then they said it was limited run. They didn't even know if they were gonna do the paperbacks then. And I spoke to two local game stores and neither of them new it was a limited product til they tried to order more either. One of them had sold he copy he out by for himself because he thought he'd just be able to buy another one.

The Division Of Joy wrote:

 Padre wrote:

Some of the "white knights" around here will spout anything to defend their beloved GW.

And some people on here are so incapable of reason that they dismiss any other opinion of white knighting.

It's a limited edition, so I'm suprised they were ever allowed through FLGS. The SC is there so people can play with the rules, the HC is meant to be a collectors item, why shouldn't a company keep those in house?

They are over-priced, but since you don't need a HC to play the game, noone is forcing you to buy it. However, if you want it, they GW are being clever by maximising revenue. It'll sell out, so maximise the profit and release the normal edition to all so the game isn't compromised.

If someone could have an adult debate on this without the white knight comments this place would be better.

Those words might come up less often if people didn't try flimsy post hoc rationalisations of GW's mistakes and foolishness like that one; the softcovers were a panic reaction by the company to something they didn't expect, they were not "being clever", they initially only intended to release the HC versions(at least in the medium term) and, yet again, were caught out and had to rush the SC books into production. Now that they've realised they'd drastically underestimated the demand, they're trying to soak up extra profit by denying copies of the HC to independents. That's also not clever, because it's yet more evidence for said independents that GW will poison any well, salt any field if it means even a single shred more profit from any individual release, and that if FLGS go out of business as a result they don't care - that means more stores giving up in frustration and switching their focus to MTG as their main moneymaker with WM/H, Infinity etc on the side, which means less market penetration for GW products, chiefly in the markets where their penetration is almost entirely dependent on indies like the USA.

Clever companies do not sacrifice their long-term viability for minimal short-term increases in profit margin.

And between this kind of crap and my dislike of the End Times fluff, I actually feel a little bit disgusted with myself right now...because I'm having to argue myself out of buying the new Thanquol kit and the Skaven dice. It's so frustrating, GW are capable of making such great models, and they still have people who can write good fluff, but they'll throw those advantages away in a heartbeat if it means just one more penny on those precious dividends.

That's very poor then by GW.

I still fail to see why it's a stupid idea to only do LE books through the GW stores though. Of all the things to moan about (and there are a good few with WHFB!) this smacks of a generic GW bash.

its not... But when you sell the first three through FLGS then suddenly stop to make a tiny bit more money, that's when it's a valid complaint.

I see it as a trial type thing. GW have no loyalty to FLGS, and they are struggling financially from what I've seen. It's the smart decision.

As someone who only uses a FLGS it's a shame, but it's not unfair, stupid, or poor business by GW.

Making a game that requires 100s of miniatures to play a basic game, then setting a price point for those minis that prices out a big part of the potential audience is the stupid thing.

Oh come on, they're a 30odd year old company. They shouldn't need to trial things like this anymore. And of course, if they did a bit of customer research...

Either sell through FLGS, or don't. Selling some and then pulling the rug from under their feet is just...wrong.

Agreed, the approach has been scattergun, and unprofessional.

It's a hobby company that is being run a little too much for cash and not enough for the hobbyist. It's a shame, because a little more of the latter would end up with more of the former.

They might as well be a new company a the moment, becuase the landscape has changed and they haven't adapted. These sort of mistakes are to be expected when the company is trying to re-find it's footing.

 Padre wrote:

 mikhaila wrote:
Without local stores GW may as well leave the US. I seriously don't understand their business plan.

I don''t think GW understand their business plan, either, assuming they actually have a business plan...

I think their business plan at least as far as this is concerned, is that if these books were selling well from independents at a trade discount of 40%, they'll make 40% more by making it direct only, and that doing this thing will encourage customers to go direct to GW in the future. In reality, it'll likely put off at least as many customers are it forces direct, and puts off the only people trying to sell your product in many areas.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Captain Vyper wrote:
"Why do you thinkFW does so well?".

Because in some parts of the world it's the cheaper option (In Japan, DKK are cheaper than Cadians), and in others it's looking like good value.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

The Division Of Joy wrote:
I see it as a trial type thing. GW have no loyalty to FLGS, and they are struggling financially from what I've seen. It's the smart decision.

As someone who only uses a FLGS it's a shame, but it's not unfair, stupid, or poor business by GW.

GW should have a loyalty to the FLGS though, because they do a lot of the work for GW and are an asset to be encouraged rather than hampered. A pro-GW FLGS will do much more for GW than one that grudgingly stocks GW stuff or drops them entirely.

The Division Of Joy wrote:
And some people on here are so incapable of reason that they dismiss any other opinion of white knighting.

The Division Of Joy wrote:
That's very poor then by GW.

The Division Of Joy wrote:
I still fail to see why it's a stupid idea to only do LE books through the GW stores though. Of all the things to moan about (and there are a good few with WHFB!) this smacks of a generic GW bash.

The Division Of Joy wrote:
I see it as a trial type thing.

The Division Of Joy wrote:
Agreed, the approach has been scattergun, and unprofessional.

Oh pick a side already...

 mikhaila wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Out of curiosity, how many copies of Khaine did you get?

Bit less than 20 between the two stores, closer to 30 on Glottkin.

Wow.

You got a hell of a lot more copies of Khaine than my local GW did.

The Division Of Joy wrote:

 Padre wrote:

Some of the "white knights" around here will spout anything to defend their beloved GW.

And some people on here are so incapable of reason that they dismiss any other opinion of white knighting.

It's a limited edition, so I'm suprised they were ever allowed through FLGS. The SC is there so people can play with the rules, the HC is meant to be a collectors item, why shouldn't a company keep those in house?

They are over-priced, but since you don't need a HC to play the game, noone is forcing you to buy it. However, if you want it, they GW are being clever by maximising revenue. It'll sell out, so maximise the profit and release the normal edition to all so the game isn't compromised.

If someone could have an adult debate on this without the white knight comments this place would be better.

errr, what? What made you think it was a limited edition? There were no softcovers at all of Nagash, but there was a 'limited' HC and a regular HC. It sold ok, started picking up steam. Glotkin sold better. Khain sold out fast as hell. The 40k HC books were doing the same, selling better and better.

These were in no way "Limited Editions" at the start. GW was happy to sell them to LGS

Now, they decided to keep them all for mailorder. Similar to how over half the entire WFB line is only sold by them.

Why shouldn't they keep them in house for collectors? Where do you think most of the 'collectors' got the first 3 volumes? In their LGS.

 Vermis wrote:

 Accolade wrote:
I'd been giving some consideration to starting up WHFB, of which I've been finding a greater level of interest in as I've gotten older and my frustration with the state of 40k increases. I gave up buying anything GW produces that is "Direct-only" a while ago, as the only way I feel comfortable supporting them is through independents.

I was thinking of doing a dwarf army and a mini skaven force to play them against. However, with the inability to pick up the End Times book I'm most interested in via an independent, it seems that my plans may end up going by the wayside.

Unless you're chained to a GW store (and you're not), you don't even need Warhammer to play skaven and old world dwarfs, let alone End Times books.

I realize I don't need the End Times book, at this point it's more frustration with GW for shorthanding LGSs in an attempt to force sales through direct. End Times is pretty big at the store I visit; they've had some good success with Glottkin and the Khaine releases. Now with the Skaven book pulled from them, I'm sure it will have a dampening effect on a store that has done a good job promoting a game that has fallen off on sales these last few years.

I am curious though- what do you mean by not needing Warhammer to play? Are you talking about Mordheim, WH Quest, or some older edition of WHFB?

Somehow, I just remember the GW management meetings like the meetings in that South Park episode...with the cough syrup...

 Accolade wrote:

I realize I don't need the End Times book, at this point it's more frustration with GW for shorthanding LGSs in an attempt to force sales through direct. End Times is pretty big at the store I visit; they've had some good success with Glottkin and the Khaine releases. Now with the Skaven book pulled from them, I'm sure it will have a dampening effect on a store that has done a good job promoting a game that has fallen off on sales these last few years.

Bear in mind the End Times books will still be in store. It's just going to be the soft cover and not the hardback. So your LGS should still have success promoting fantasy as I doubt they were receiving a ton of the hardbacks. Mikhaila is the only one I've heard of getting double digits and that was spread across 2 stores.

Still sucks they are pulling HC's from stores. But they aren't pulling End Times from stores.

I'm still going to try for the hardback on friday. We'll see what happens.

FLGS have issues promoting fantasy, and this is just another step in that direction. As mikhaila says, much of that range is direct only now, including basic core troops needed to field a legal army

 RiTides wrote:
FLGS have issues promoting fantasy, and this is just another step in that direction. As mikhaila says, much of that range is direct only now, including basic core troops needed to field a legal army

While I agree that direct only Fantasy is bad this isn't direct only. The HC is. End Times Thanquol will be available in stores in SC. I'm all for being annoyed that they pulled the HC. But acting like the information isn't available in another format that is available to a LGS isn't correct. LGS should still be able to promote fantasy End Times stuff.

Not to mention that based on availability the HC might as well have not been available anyway for many, many, many LGS. I live in an area that has 6 LGS that sell GW product. 5 of those order direct from GW. And they didn't get between them what Mikhaila got for one of his stores. Heck, I have a GW store locally that didn't get as many as Mikhaila got for one store.

 RiTides wrote:
FLGS have issues promoting fantasy, and this is just another step in that direction. As mikhaila says, much of that range is direct only now, including basic core troops needed to field a legal army

I agree, it's ridiculous. I just went on the Outpost site and under Bretonnia (might be an extreme example, but just because they're older isn't really an excuse) and all I could order if I wanted to is the book, the battalion, and the peasant bowmen. And I don't know how much of that is just stock they have left. And it's like that for all the armies, massive gaps where you can't buy core troops to make an army. It's just stupid.

 Hulksmash wrote:

 RiTides wrote:
FLGS have issues promoting fantasy, and this is just another step in that direction. As mikhaila says, much of that range is direct only now, including basic core troops needed to field a legal army

While I agree that direct only Fantasy is bad this isn't direct only. The HC is. End Times Thanquol will be available in stores in SC. I'm all for being annoyed that they pulled the HC. But acting like the information isn't available in another format that is available to a LGS isn't correct. LGS should still be able to promote fantasy End Times stuff.

Are the local shops going to get soft covers on the day of release? If not, it is still a shafting as a large percentage of sales (so far as I have heard) occur in close proximity to the release date.