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 mikhaila wrote:
I've been informed that i will recieve zero of the Thanquol HC next week for my stores. If you want it, you have to get it from GW direct.

Pure money grab. They were happy as hell to my money for the first 3. Now I and all other stores get the softcover edition.

Truly the end times are here. Mostly what was left of my relationship with GW

It's bizarre and must be frustrating as all hell.

I suggest you put discounts on starter sets and rulebooks for Infinity, Malifaux and Warmahordes and start running introductory tourneys.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
It's bizarre and must be frustrating as all hell.

I suggest you put discounts on starter sets and rulebooks for Infinity, Malifaux and Warmahordes and start running introductory tourneys.

/concur

That sucks Mike. if they're gonna keep screwing you, then screw em back.

weeble1000 wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:

 RiTides wrote:
FLGS have issues promoting fantasy, and this is just another step in that direction. As mikhaila says, much of that range is direct only now, including basic core troops needed to field a legal army

While I agree that direct only Fantasy is bad this isn't direct only. The HC is. End Times Thanquol will be available in stores in SC. I'm all for being annoyed that they pulled the HC. But acting like the information isn't available in another format that is available to a LGS isn't correct. LGS should still be able to promote fantasy End Times stuff.

Are the local shops going to get soft covers on the day of release? If not, it is still a shafting as a large percentage of sales (so far as I have heard) occur in close proximity to the release date.

The issue is that as Hulksmash, Mikhaila, and myself all mentioned?

The Khaine book sold out in a phenomenally small amount of time. I was over at my local GW to preorder and in the time that it took for me to add the damn book to cart and go to checkout, the book was sold out. I probably would have ended up having to get a softcover if the manager didn't hold a copy for me out of the extremely small amount of books he was allocated. He barely got a quarter of what Mikhaila was allocated to his two stores--and that's an official GW store getting shorted on their own product.

And yes, from what Mikhaila said in his first post the softback will be available at release similar to the Khaine release.

 Kanluwen wrote:

weeble1000 wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:

 RiTides wrote:
FLGS have issues promoting fantasy, and this is just another step in that direction. As mikhaila says, much of that range is direct only now, including basic core troops needed to field a legal army

While I agree that direct only Fantasy is bad this isn't direct only. The HC is. End Times Thanquol will be available in stores in SC. I'm all for being annoyed that they pulled the HC. But acting like the information isn't available in another format that is available to a LGS isn't correct. LGS should still be able to promote fantasy End Times stuff.

Are the local shops going to get soft covers on the day of release? If not, it is still a shafting as a large percentage of sales (so far as I have heard) occur in close proximity to the release date.

The issue is that as Hulksmash, Mikhaila, and myself all mentioned?

The Khaine book sold out in a phenomenally small amount of time. I was over at my local GW to preorder and in the time that it took for me to add the damn book to cart and go to checkout, the book was sold out. I probably would have ended up having to get a softcover if the manager didn't hold a copy for me out of the extremely small amount of books he was allocated. He barely got a quarter of what Mikhaila was allocated to his two stores--and that's an official GW store getting shorted on their own product.

Do you understand that if a GW store doesn't have the books because the GW HQ keeps them, then that's still profit for... GW!

And that if Mike doesn't have the books to sell, then that's... no profit to Mike?

Absolutely ridiculous.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

weeble1000 wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:

 RiTides wrote:
FLGS have issues promoting fantasy, and this is just another step in that direction. As mikhaila says, much of that range is direct only now, including basic core troops needed to field a legal army

While I agree that direct only Fantasy is bad this isn't direct only. The HC is. End Times Thanquol will be available in stores in SC. I'm all for being annoyed that they pulled the HC. But acting like the information isn't available in another format that is available to a LGS isn't correct. LGS should still be able to promote fantasy End Times stuff.

Are the local shops going to get soft covers on the day of release? If not, it is still a shafting as a large percentage of sales (so far as I have heard) occur in close proximity to the release date.

The issue is that as Hulksmash, Mikhaila, and myself all mentioned?

The Khaine book sold out in a phenomenally small amount of time. I was over at my local GW to preorder and in the time that it took for me to add the damn book to cart and go to checkout, the book was sold out. I probably would have ended up having to get a softcover if the manager didn't hold a copy for me out of the extremely small amount of books he was allocated. He barely got a quarter of what Mikhaila was allocated to his two stores--and that's an official GW store getting shorted on their own product.

Do you understand that if a GW store doesn't have the books because the GW HQ keeps them, then that's still profit for... GW!

And that if Mike doesn't have the books to sell, then that's... no profit to Mike?

I really don't get what you're trying to say here. Both those things are obvious and no ones said otherwise...

I does suck that we have to jump through so many hoops to get these books. I have the first 3 in Hardback and want to make sure that the remaining books in the series are the same format.

I don't blame GW for trying to make money. I also understand that due to the print timing, the other books couldn't have their print run increased. It isn't as easy as calling up and asking to double the order. Print runs are scheduled months in advance and I'm sure that the printer's time is booked before and after the project so there is no room to add more.

I stopped trying to buy special order items from my FLGS as he would often forget who ordered the items and would sell them to other people even if they didn't ask ahead of time. I want to support the local store but sometimes they make decisions that really make it difficult to do so.

I wish everyone luck finding the book.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
[
I was over at my local GW to preorder and in the time that it took for me to add the damn book to cart and go to checkout, the book was sold out. I probably would have ended up having to get a softcover if the manager didn't hold a copy for me out of the extremely small amount of books he was allocated. He barely got a quarter of what Mikhaila was allocated to his two stores--and that's an official GW store getting shorted on their own product.

Do you understand that if a GW store doesn't have the books because the GW HQ keeps them, then that's still profit for... GW!

And that if Mike doesn't have the books to sell, then that's... no profit to Mike?

I really don't get what you're trying to say here. Both those things are obvious and no ones said otherwise...

Unless you can actually read Kanulwen suggesting that GW's manager was worse off than Mike... When GW's manager is benefiting from the copies sold by the company in relative terms, belonging to the company making the profit and will continue to be paid a salary. Whereas Mike, as an independent retailer, gains nothing from direct only sales and loses potential revenue.

You know, basic economics... Or maybe you don't know.

Fine with me. I wanted the softcover anyway.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
[
I was over at my local GW to preorder and in the time that it took for me to add the damn book to cart and go to checkout, the book was sold out. I probably would have ended up having to get a softcover if the manager didn't hold a copy for me out of the extremely small amount of books he was allocated. He barely got a quarter of what Mikhaila was allocated to his two stores--and that's an official GW store getting shorted on their own product.

Do you understand that if a GW store doesn't have the books because the GW HQ keeps them, then that's still profit for... GW!

And that if Mike doesn't have the books to sell, then that's... no profit to Mike?

I really don't get what you're trying to say here. Both those things are obvious and no ones said otherwise...

Unless you can actually read Kanulwen suggesting that GW's manager was worse off than Mike... When GW's manager is benefiting from the copies sold by the company in relative terms, belonging to the company making the profit and will continue to be paid a salary. Whereas Mike, as an independent retailer, gains nothing from direct only sales and loses potential revenue.

You know, basic economics... Or maybe you don't know.

No I get that, but I don't think that was Kans point. I think his point was that there's so few printed even official stores get hardly any.

Hulk - All my local shops had the hardbacks of the other versions, fwiw. If they release the softcover simultaneously, it does lessen the blow, but sucks since many folks will plan to buy it locally like they did the others.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
[
I was over at my local GW to preorder and in the time that it took for me to add the damn book to cart and go to checkout, the book was sold out. I probably would have ended up having to get a softcover if the manager didn't hold a copy for me out of the extremely small amount of books he was allocated. He barely got a quarter of what Mikhaila was allocated to his two stores--and that's an official GW store getting shorted on their own product.

Do you understand that if a GW store doesn't have the books because the GW HQ keeps them, then that's still profit for... GW!

And that if Mike doesn't have the books to sell, then that's... no profit to Mike?

I really don't get what you're trying to say here. Both those things are obvious and no ones said otherwise...

Unless you can actually read Kanulwen suggesting that GW's manager was worse off than Mike... When GW's manager is benefiting from the copies sold by the company in relative terms, belonging to the company making the profit and will continue to be paid a salary. Whereas Mike, as an independent retailer, gains nothing from direct only sales and loses potential revenue.

You know, basic economics... Or maybe you don't know.

Or Kan was pointing out that some LGS had previously gotten more for sale in store than GW stores. He never says anything other than that. The rest is inference on your part to attack him.

I don't disagree it sucks that they aren't available in Hardback from your FLGS. It sucks they are changing stuff up midstride. That said it isn't a change for the vast majority of people looking for these books. Most of us were going to be going thru the website anyway because our FLGS already couldn't get the numbers they needed to guarantee us the product.

@RiTides

They released Exterminatus in SC/HC at the same time and they released Khaine at the same time in HC/SC. At least from what I remember. I could be off on the Khaine since I don't got into my FLGS every friday. I know Exterminatus did as I got the SC when I ordered the HC from a retailer and it came the same week the HC's were shipped.

And all of my local shops that wanted End Times got them too. In low single digit numbers. I wasn't kidding when I said one of Mikhaila's stores got more distribution than all of the Minneapolis metro area combined. Including a GW store.

Minicannuck wrote:
I does suck that we have to jump through so many hoops to get these books. I have the first 3 in Hardback and want to make sure that the remaining books in the series are the same format.

There's something cynical about selling a product through a wide distribution, and when people are invested in buying the set, to then make it entirely exclusive.

I still think that the more hoops you create to make customers to jump through to buy your product, the fewer customers you will hold on to. It's not a CCG, people buying warhammer don't see chasing down product as part of the hobby.

Yeah I ninja edited, but that's really the rub - will hard and softcover be a simultaneous release? If not, it really sucks for FLGS... and is just bad business really.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:

Minicannuck wrote:
I does suck that we have to jump through so many hoops to get these books. I have the first 3 in Hardback and want to make sure that the remaining books in the series are the same format.

There's something cynical about selling a product through a wide distribution, and when people are invested in buying the set, to then make it entirely exclusive.

I still think that the more hoops you create to make customers to jump through to buy your product, the fewer customers you will hold on to. It's not a CCG, people buying warhammer don't see chasing down product as part of the hobby.

Agreed. I was done with the End Times stuff until I happened upon a reasonably priced (i.e. retail) version of Khaine when I couldn't get the product at release. Now I'm back in assuming I can get Thanquol. If not, then I'm back out again. I do love the books though...

@RiTides

I guess we'll know Friday on that.

Minicannuck wrote:


I stopped trying to buy special order items from my FLGS as he would often forget who ordered the items and would sell them to other people even if they didn't ask ahead of time. I want to support the local store but sometimes they make decisions that really make it difficult to do so.

I wish everyone luck finding the book.

I had this very problem. My FLGS was allocated ONE copy of each of the HB releases for End Times and for Shield of Baal. One other person besides myself pre-ordered Leviathan. The Leviathan book came in and I got to the store right when it opened that Saturday...and even though the guy who does the pre-orders was going to give the single copy to the other person (his friend), he wasn't there, and the clerk who was sold it to me (as I had a pre-order in as well.) I didn't find out I wasn't supposed to get it until I went in to pre-order Exterminatus, and the guy told me that his friend was pre-ordering this one as well...

I was forced to try the store in the next town (who was also only allocated a single copy) to make certain I got a Hard Back copy. I could really only afford one though...even though I had a pre-order in at both stores. So I contacted a guy in our gaming group who I know was a Blood Angels player and said, "hey, if I get stuck with both of these, do you want one?" He said "of course!" and it turned out that the 'friend' (the other person pre-ordering the book from the original store) was his girlfriend trying to order it for him....and they lived in the town where the 'other' store was, so it all worked out in the end...but what a nightmare.

Personally, if I start a book series HC, I want to finish it HC. Most of the time, I go SC because I start late (like graphic novels). If most people were getting HC, then partway through the editions they switch to only SC (or online order only), it'll upset people. Offer an all-or-nothing on the HCs. That's the issue that I, and a lot of others, have with this. It's flagrant disregard for the customers who care about keeping in one style. It looks poor on the shelf.

If they started HC or SC, and people were allowed to choose from the beginning, I think you'd see a lot less crushed toes.

Yeah, "what a nightmare" isn't generally the buying experience you want customers to have to go through just to get your product

As usual they have something that is so close to a great idea but the implementation messes it up.

I don't even really play Fantasy that much anymore but I bought the Nagash Hardcover set and loved it. I would own all the others too if I could have got the HC sets.

GW digs their own grave

So is this every FLGS or just the OP?

Not that it will helps peoples annoyance

but I wonder if the Skaven book is going direct only as they under ordered even compared to the other ET releases (as it would 'only' appeal to buyers of a single army book, rather then the multiple books the others do)

Between the release of the 3rd book and the eventual release of this new book, didn't the new ceo come into play? Maybe this is one of his changes.

Would he be that much of a micro-manager?

Y'know for a few years MY WHOLE JOB was demand planning to make sure my company had enough product (more than enough actually) to meet demand in shops.

you can't sell products you don't have!

Wonder if GW would be interested in hiring me.

I'm not sure they'd get your humor, Kyoto

H.B.M.C. wrote:Would he be that much of a micro-manager?

Don't know. But it just occurred to me that this has happened.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Y'know for a few years MY WHOLE JOB was demand planning to make sure my company had enough product (more than enough actually) to meet demand in shops.

you can't sell products you don't have!

Wonder if GW would be interested in hiring me.

Sorry, they hire for attitude not skills & ability.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Y'know for a few years MY WHOLE JOB was demand planning to make sure my company had enough product (more than enough actually) to meet demand in shops.

you can't sell products you don't have!

Wonder if GW would be interested in hiring me.

they really need to sort this out. They're a 30 year old company, they should really know by now how well a product is going to sell. Issues like this are ridiculous for a company this experienced.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Personally, if I start a book series HC, I want to finish it HC. Most of the time, I go SC because I start late (like graphic novels). If most people were getting HC, then partway through the editions they switch to only SC (or online order only), it'll upset people. Offer an all-or-nothing on the HCs. That's the issue that I, and a lot of others, have with this. It's flagrant disregard for the customers who care about keeping in one style. It looks poor on the shelf.

If they started HC or SC, and people were allowed to choose from the beginning, I think you'd see a lot less crushed toes.

Yeah, most people I know like their collections the same way. I guess GW can't even take care of their target audience properly.