Just came back from TSHFT Open 2015 in Seattle, Washington, and had a blast. Most of our team - Team Zero Comp - went. Also, at the tournament, we added our newest member to our team - Sean aka AbusePuppy.
But before I go into my list and my games, I'd like to start off with a homage to all the fine armies out there, starting off with our team's armies:
TEAM ZERO COMP
I didn't get pictures of all of my teammate's armies, but I did get pictures of most of them.
Spoiler:
First off, this is the army of the club's founding father, Reece aka Reecius. He ran Space Wolves with a Culexus assassin.
Frankie aka White925 and his beautiful Dark Eldar. Frankie's army won Best Painted and deservedly so. It was just stunning. BTW, Frankie is the defending champion from last year's TSHFT and I played against his army in this tournament.
More pics of his gorgeous army.
Ben Cromwell and his Eldar/Dark Eldar army.
Jason aka Raw Dogger aka Kimchi Gamer and his nasty Centurionstar Grey Knights-Space Marines.
Grant aka Grant Theft Auto aka GTA with Eldar + Space Wolves and the controversial Lynx.
Geoff aka iNcontrol and his Barbed Hierodule-led Leviathan + regular Tyranids. While this is a slightly older photo of his army, Geoff's had quite an influence on competitive Tyranids as you will soon see.
Ben Schimmoller and his White Scars + Astra Militarum. This is actually an older pic of his army but it is basically what he ran.
The newest member of our team - Sean aka AbusePuppy. He ran Mechdar + the Tau Firebase Cadre.
Not only did Sean beat Reece in a challenge match, but he also then went on to win the whole tournament!
Last but not least, you have yours truly, Jim aka Jy2, in what will most likely be the last tournament for his "Oldcrons" before they get updated.
Tyranids were by far the most represented army in the tournament. First of all, the most common Xenos super-heavy at the tournament, the Barbed Hierodule:
Spoiler:
Tyranids+ Tau Firebase Cadre. BTW, that spider thingamajiggy there is the Barbed Hierodule.
Chancey's Tyranids - one of my opponents.
Barbie + the Endless Swarm.
Overall, there were about 9-10 Barbed Hierodules in the tournament.
One of the rare Tyranid armies not running Barbie. This one ran 2 units of zoanthropes + neurothrope in spores instead.
Jessup aka Seaphoenix's Tyranids. He didn't run Barbie. Instead, he ran the Deathleaper Assassin Brood.
Jessup's converted Deathleaper.
Lastly, we had 1 Pentyrant (5-flyrant) Tyranid army (no Barbie)....which I did not get a photo of.
CHAOS
Chaos was rare indeed. There were only 2 Daemon players and I believe 2-3 Chaos Space Marine players (there were, however, a lot of armies who could bring in some daemons).
Spoiler:
John Paul and his Daemons. JP is one of the best Daemon players in the Northwest and has been tearing it up in the local tournament scene with his Flying Circus.
Jeremy (hope I got his name right) aka Undertow's Flying Circus.
fidel wrote: Why was the Lynx a controversial model - did I miss something with the rules?
No, it's not so much the rules as it is a performance-vs-cost issue.
ELDAR/TAU
Spoiler:
Eldar + Space Marines? Hmm...wonder what he used Space Marines for.
A beautiful Saim Hain Eldar army.
Paul McKevley and his Tetra-based Farsight Enclaves Tau. Paul is a really good Tau player and is currently ranked #1 on the ITC leaderboard. He also won the last GT in our area, Brawl in the Fall.
NECRON/ORKS
Spoiler:
The dreaded Necron Pylon!
Necrons with Imperial Knight ally.
Not only were there 2 of them....
....but they were actually all part of the 3 Necronteers.
Meganobs galore! Todd was one of my opponents and he ran 20+ meganobs via the Bullyboyz formation.
Just wanted to show a couple of Todd's cool conversions. This truck with the buzzsaw was actually converted from a Tau devilfish.
Last but not least, we have the Imperial armies, coming soon.....
Bens Eldar list has WWP with WraithGuard or dragons? Str10 gun or flamers?
Can't recall on the flamers or str10, but the WWP would go with whomever he felt needed it. Usually with the fire dragons and the wraithguard in the reaver.
Bens Eldar list has WWP with WraithGuard or dragons? Str10 gun or flamers?
Can't recall on the flamers or str10, but the WWP would go with whomever he felt needed it. Usually with the fire dragons and the wraithguard in the reaver.
were the WraithGuard flaming out of the OT Vehicle? If so thats sounds hilarious.
Slight correction. Jessup would be my name. Not wessup. Perhaps that will become my street name.
Great seeing team comp0 there, though I am disappointed we were unable to get my challenge in, maybe next time. Look forward to hearing the minutiae of your battles.
seapheonix wrote: Slight correction. Jessup would be my name. Not wessup. Perhaps that will become my street name.
Great seeing team comp0 there, though I am disappointed we were unable to get my challenge in, maybe next time. Look forward to hearing the minutiae of your battles.
Doh! My bad. Sorry man.
BTW, good to see someone bringing a non-standard Tyranid list. I tried running the Deathleaper Assassin Brood before and it isn't easy at all. Props to you, my friend.
Bens Eldar list has WWP with WraithGuard or dragons? Str10 gun or flamers?
Can't recall on the flamers or str10, but the WWP would go with whomever he felt needed it. Usually with the fire dragons and the wraithguard in the reaver.
were the WraithGuard flaming out of the OT Vehicle? If so thats sounds hilarious.
Yeah, that would be funny indeed. More importantly, he's got the flexibility to put either in the raider....or he could just deepstrike them without a transport.
IMPERIALS
There were 3 common themes with the Imperial armies - Imperial Knights, drop pods and centurions.
Spoiler:
The only Adlance army in the tournament. He was running them with centurions!
Really liked what this person did with Dreamforge Leviathan-knight conversion.
Jeremy Veysseire aka the French Overlord aka MikhailLenin and his beautiful White Scars + Space Wolves army. Jeremy is a former TSHFT winner and has won other tournaments as well. I was hoping to play against him. Alas, it just wasn't meant to be....yet.
I believe he was running Forgeworld Carchadons?
One of the few Space Wolf armies. While his army didn't do so hot, Anthony did manage to take with him Best Sportsman despite his rather scary deathstar.
Sisters with 2 knights!
Amazing conversion for the Cerastus Acheron.
Grey Knights with the stormraven/2-stormtalons formation.
Aaron aka CaptainA and his dreaded centurionstar. Aaron was also one of my opponents.
More centurions.
White Scars and Grey Knights with....wait, you'd never guess....centurions!
There wasn't very many Astra Militarum armies there....
....but there were a lot of Sicarians.
Ok, that's it for army pics. Coming up tomorrow....the battle reports! Stay tuned....
Paul McKevley and his Tetra-based Farsight Enclaves Tau. Paul is a really good Tau player and is currently ranked #1 on the ITC leaderboard. He also won the last GT in our area, Brawl in the Fall.
Sexy Tau Army there, love that paint scheme. If I wasn't so sick of painting blue/gold on my Thousand Sons, I'd totaly steal it.
Greatly looking forward to reading your batreps jy2, you always have interesting matches.
The Khorne walkers were doomed. I guess when you make a list based of what looks fun. you sometimes lose every game. The contemptor was a gift on Christmas from my Mother in Law.
WrentheFaceless wrote: Its nice to see GKs at events again, even if its Draigo shuttling around Centurious. and Dreadknights
Looks like at least 1 person ran the GK's without centurions. Unfortunately, I don't think she did all that well (she ran them with the stormraven/stormtalon formation).
We need to get in a rematch again one of these days after my Necrons get updated.
And of course, in a battle between Tyranid players, it'll be interesting to see which build wins out - your Barbed Hierodule army or my Pentyrant build.
pretre wrote: Great pics. I look forward to the report.
BTW, there were 2 Sisters player at the tournament and both did exceptionally well. Too bad they had to play each other at the end. LOL!
The Khorne walkers were doomed. I guess when you make a list based of what looks fun. you sometimes lose every game. The contemptor was a gift on Christmas from my Mother in Law.
Great to meat you skipper, and way to bring something that you like rather than units that will give you the best chances of winning.
It's always refreshing to see very unique armies such as yours.
WrentheFaceless wrote: Its nice to see GKs at events again, even if its Draigo shuttling around Centurious. and Dreadknights
Looks like at least 1 person ran the GK's without centurions. Unfortunately, I don't think she did all that well (she ran them with the stormraven/stormtalon formation).
Actually Shaylynn (who was the GK player in question) went 4-1 at the tournament, though an error in the data entry appears to show her at 3-1-1 in the final report.
This is your first round opponent. I looking forward to seeing your views of the match we played. If you don’t mind I’d like to borrow some of your pictures for my battle report since mine did not turn out to well. It was a great pleasure to play you and the other members of team zero comp this last weekend.
shadowfinder wrote: This is your first round opponent. I looking forward to seeing your views of the match we played. If you don’t mind I’d like to borrow some of your pictures for my battle report since mine did not turn out to well. It was a great pleasure to play you and the other members of team zero comp this last weekend.
Sure, go right ahead!
Thanks for the game, Chancey. You can read about our battle that should be coming out tonight.
WrentheFaceless wrote: Its nice to see GKs at events again, even if its Draigo shuttling around Centurious. and Dreadknights
Looks like at least 1 person ran the GK's without centurions. Unfortunately, I don't think she did all that well (she ran them with the stormraven/stormtalon formation).
Actually Shaylynn (who was the GK player in question) went 4-1 at the tournament, though an error in the data entry appears to show her at 3-1-1 in the final report.
Cool. Glad to hear. Thanks for the info Sean and congratulations on a job well done.
Too bad we didn't get to play. I don't think that you'd like my army very much. Lol.
Love your list jy2! I saw another version of it with tomb blades and have decided to give it ago (setting aside my necrons+bully boy list) against Tau at the club this evening. Can't wait to see your batreps.
necron99 wrote: Love your list jy2! I saw another version of it with tomb blades and have decided to give it ago (setting aside my necrons+bully boy list) against Tau at the club this evening. Can't wait to see your batreps.
Thanks. The reason I dropped my tomb blades was because I decided to go with the Mephrit Dynasty detachment. Unfortunately, in order to do so, I needed 1 more troop choice and thus had to drop the blades for 1 more unit of warriors. I also dropped 1 storm-tek for the Solar Thermasite upgrade.
1. Hold Objective 1.
2. Hold Objective 2.
3. Have a scoring unit at least partially within the enemy deployment zone.
4. Destroy an enemy unit.
5. Destroy an enemy unit.
6. Have at least 3 of your and no enemy scoring units in your own deployment zone.
Tertiary Objectives: First Blood, Linebreaker, Slay the Warlord, 1-pt each
Chancy's Tyranid list isn't that bad. I've seen/played/played against worst. The Barbed Hierodule usually gives my crons some problems, but I am glad that I only have to deal with 2 flyrants as opposed to 3 or 4. Chancy won the roll for Initiative and opted to go 2nd. That was smart of him. However, I have a "thing" against the Barbed Hierodule and am actually going to try to take him out this game. Overall, I like my chances against this Tyranid army and, barring extreme dice, I think I shouldn't have a problem getting the V in this game.
Chancy deploys only the malanthrope, barbed hierodule and termagants. He is taking a big risk here by reserving the rest of his army, but he was afraid that I would take out one of his flyrants on Turn 1.
3. Have a scoring unit at least partially within the enemy deployment zone.
4. Destroy an enemy unit.
Tyranids:
1. Hold Objective 1.
4. Destroy an enemy unit.
I go all out.
My very first annihilation barge (AB) shoots and I roll 4 6's without even using the re-rolls!
However, Chancy's malanthrope would then go on to pass 9 out of 10 3+ saves!
As a matter of fact, his saves were sooo good that it takes all 4 of my AB's just to take down his malanthrope for First Blood.
Bargelords then move flat-out forwards in preparation for a T2 assault.
Tyranids 1
Spoiler:
Barbie takes out 1 AB with his shooting.
I get both of my Maelstrom objectives by killing 1 unit (malanthrope) and having one of my bargelords in my opponent's deployment zone. My opponent only gets 1 (killed 1 AB).
Maelstrom VP's - Necrons: 2, Tyranids: 1
Necrons 2
Spoiler:
Maelstrom Objectives:
Necrons:
4. Destroy an enemy unit.
6. Have at least 3 of your and no enemy scoring units in your own deployment
zone.
Tyranids:
2. Hold Objective 2.
3. Have a scoring unit at least partially within the enemy deployment zone.
Just a little bit of foreshadowing, but Turn 1 was my only highlight of the game. From thereon, it just went downhill.
2 of my flyers come in.
I prepare for assault. However, one of my barges is about 8" away and has to go through cover.
I focus the entire firepower of my army at the barbed hierodule. That's 2 night scythes, 3 annihilation barges and 2 bargelords shooting at it. I only do a disappointing 2W to it.
Assault. Of course the further bargelord fails. My Warlord makes it into combat.
Unfortunately for me, Barbie passes his Mindshackle tests and then proceeds to kill the barge.
He doesn't get back up, thus giving my opponent Slay the Warlord.
Tyranids 2
Spoiler:
Rippers come in but mishap. I place them in some far-off corner.
Dakkafex comes in near one of my objectives.
Most importantly, both of his flyrants comes in (and the hive crone).
Disaster strikes again as Barbie split-fires and insta-kills both of my bargelords. BTW, I believe he hit and wounded 5 times out of 6 shots against each (and with BS3)!
Only 1 of my bargelords get back up.
Flyrants + hive crone take out 1 night scythe.
Neither of us gets any Maelstrom objectives this turn.
Necrons 3
Spoiler:
Maelstrom Objectives:
Necrons:
1. Hold Objective 1.
5. Destroy an enemy unit.
Tyranids:
2. Hold Objective 2.
4. Destroy an enemy unit.
At this point, I've gone full tilt. I didn't care about Maelstrom objectives. I just wanted his BH dead! So I brazenly setup another attempt to take him down.
Well, maybe not quite full tilt. I do make an attempt at his other units.
Flyer shoots at a flyrant and again, my dice is aces.
However, so are my opponent's saves. He makes another 9 out of 10 3+ saves!!!
The rest of my shooting doesn't do squat. Either misses or he makes all of his saves.
Warriors run away from the dakkafex.
Bargelord makes the charge.
Once again, his BH passes Mindshackles and then crushes my barge.
My bargelord would not get back up.
Tyranids 3
Spoiler:
At this point, it is essentially game over. With all 3 of my bargelords down and with Chancy's army largely intact, there is almost no way for me to mount a comeback. Still, I don't quit.
Dakkafex fails his Instinctive Behavior test. Spore goes after my warriors.
Hive crone vector-strikes and kills another Necron flyer as it flies off the table.
Flyrants prepare to bring the pain. One of his flyrants go into gliding mode to grab Objective #2.
Shooting immobilizes 1 AB and takes off 1HP from another.
He also kills my other flyer with flyrant shooting.
I fail to get any Maelstrom objectives this turn. Chancy gets 1-VP for killing one of my units.
Maelstrom VP's - Necrons: 2, Tyranids: 2
Necrons 4
Spoiler:
Maelstrom Objectives:
Necrons:
5. Destroy an enemy unit.
6. Have at least 3 of your and no enemy scoring units in your own deployment
zone.
Tyranids:
2. Hold Objective 2.
5. Destroy an enemy unit.
Now, it's just a matter of survival and of trying to get any type of points off of this matchup.
Warriors come in from Ongoing reserves.
AB's go after the wounded and grounded flyrant.
I put 1W on his Warlord. He then crashes into the ground and take another 1W of damage.
However, both barges fail to take off even 1W from the other, grounded flyrant.
Tyranids 4
Spoiler:
Dakkafex finally comes in.
Warlord casts the Horror to pin my ObSec unit of troops.
Dead...
....dead (from Barbie)....
....more dead....
....not dead!
Not dead!
Wait....I spoke too soon.
Yeah....dead as well.
Sigh....
Full Maelstrom points for my opponent this turn. None for me.
Maelstrom VP's - Necrons: 2, Tyranids: 4
Necrons 5
Spoiler:
Maelstrom Objectives:
Necrons:
2. Hold Objective 2.
4. Destroy an enemy unit.
Tyranids:
2. Hold Objective 2.
3. Have a scoring unit at least partially within the enemy deployment zone.
F U Warlord. I am taking you down!
NOOOOO! He lives!
Tyranids 5
Spoiler:
So I tell Chancy (who has been following my reports online) that he has a very rare chance to do what no one else has ever been able to do to my competitive Necrons - he has a chance to table them! "DO IT Chancy! You know you can!"
So will Chancy be able to make history? Well, he'd try his damnedest at least.
Flyer down.
And so are the troops on the ground.
Dakkafex then opens up on my very last unit on the table. 1 warrior survives!
But wait....it's not over yet. Dakkafex then charges. He's only about 5" away....but fails his charge!
Game ends and I have 1 single model on the table left. Tyranids take it 10-1.
Well, that was unexpected. Chancy's Tyranid list wasn't super-hardcore, but yet, how did he manage to dominate my army the way he did? Well, there's 2 reasons really. The first was just the dice. Mine were ok (except for my Ever-living rolls, which were piss-poor). Chancy's dice was really, really hot. I just couldn't get him to fail saves nor could I get him to fail his mindshackle tests.
The 2nd reason was actually because I played poorly in this game. For some inexplicable reason, I just became fixated on taking out his barbed hierodule. Normally when I play, I usually ignore deathstars and similar units (like the BH). However, in this game, I just wanted him dead. Unfortunately for me, that plan goes poorly when he just doesn't want to fail any types of saves, whether armor or mindshackle tests. Man, that BH was the death of my army. He killed all 3 bargelords as well as 2 annihilation barges. That's about 2X his points!
Well, if anything, I gave Chancy a huge boost in his confidence with our game. He's been following my reports and was really intimidated at first against my army. But after this game, I think it's really changed his outlook on his army, so I can't say my defeat wasn't a total loss. Lol.
Ok, onto round 2 versus a double-Sicarian Space Marines with Imperial Knight!
Chancy:
I did get very lucky with my saves in this game. As for the Hierodule it is leadership 10. I have a good chance of passing mss with it. He focused on the BH so much that it allowed me to for the most part control the rest of the board. I think if he had taken the BH shooting on the Barges instead of the lords they may have lived. He jinked with both of them then put all the damage on the lords. Getting a 1 in both cases where in my favor. I still don't know why he didn't take the saves on the barge after the first one died.
As for my list it is not very threatening. But it has the tools I needed to put pressure anywhere I wanted it. I am making some changes to it but it played well vs. some very good people. I went on to have a heartbreaking lost VS Ben Freedom in round 2. A very bloody game Vs. Frankie in round 4. Lost that on the last turn on the last roll of the dice it was a great game as well. I ended the tourney 1-4. but learned a lot and tested my skills vs. some very good player by anyone's standards.
I was very worried about playing Jim. He is a good player with a army he knew how to play well. I didn't know what he would do. I had seen him pull some crazy thing in games. It did give me a huge boost for facing what else I did for the tourney.
gives increased strength to melee/ranged weapons of the bearer and lets them reroll saving throws of 1.
however its 1 per army, so cannot take 2.
Characters with the Necrons Faction that are part of a Detachment or Formation presented in this book can select an item from the Relics of the War in Heaven list at the points cost shown. Only one of each of the relics may be chosen per army – there is only one of each of these items in the galaxy.
they just chose to put it in a weird place of the book instead of where the relics are, because GW.
gives increased strength to melee/ranged weapons of the bearer and lets them reroll saving throws of 1.
however its 1 per army, so cannot take 2.
Characters with the Necrons Faction that are part of a Detachment or Formation presented in this book can select an item from the Relics of the War in Heaven list at the points cost shown. Only one of each of the relics may be chosen per army – there is only one of each of these items in the galaxy.
they just chose to put it in a weird place of the book instead of where the relics are, because GW.
Played your list (at 2k) in our planet strike map campaign last night and completely devastated one of my peeps who was playing Tau. I've been playing longer and one of my other peeps convinced him to use a fortress of redemption which to me seemed like the games largest point sink so take it with a grain of salt. But still running a Mephrit Dynasty army I was able to table him by turn 7. Should have been turn 5 but he was making his FNP rolls like a champ on his two riptides. My losses? Other than a few wounds/hull points here and there I lost one abarge (first blood), 1 unit of warriors and a barge-lord. The 2+ rerollable armor on the warlord (thanks to thermasite) was insane.
EDIT:
Other peeps came by the table to see the action after their games wrapped up. Every single one said "Are you really running tomb blades? I've never seen them on the board before". We were playing the relic so it didn't help too much except for making sure I could get line breaker.
Solar = +1S (for S8 warscythes) and re-roll ALL saves of . On an Overlord with 2+/3++/4+ jink, that's pretty damned good.
Happyjew wrote: For those wondering, Mephrit Dynasty allows Troops to re-roll 1's when making RP rolls.
Dozer Blade, Heirodule do not provide Synapse, but they are not affected by Instinctive Behaviour.
jy2, I'm assuming that the Termagants either passed IB or rolled a 4+?
I believe his termagants failed their IB test and fell back, but regrouped later when the flyrants came in.
necron99 wrote: Played your list (at 2k) in our planet strike map campaign last night and completely devastated one of my peeps who was playing Tau. I've been playing longer and one of my other peeps convinced him to use a fortress of redemption which to me seemed like the games largest point sink so take it with a grain of salt. But still running a Mephrit Dynasty army I was able to table him by turn 7. Should have been turn 5 but he was making his FNP rolls like a champ on his two riptides. My losses? Other than a few wounds/hull points here and there I lost one abarge (first blood), 1 unit of warriors and a barge-lord. The 2+ rerollable armor on the warlord (thanks to thermasite) was insane.
EDIT:
Other peeps came by the table to see the action after their games wrapped up. Every single one said "Are you really running tomb blades? I've never seen them on the board before". We were playing the relic so it didn't help too much except for making sure I could get line breaker.
Taus have problems against Necrons. I've only ever lost to Tau once with my competitive Necrons ever since 6th Ed. (and that was to Nova winner Justin Cook and his Ovesa-star with my wraithwing). However, in 7th, the matchup between Tau and Necrons have tilted more towards Necrons than ever. It really is a bad matchup for Tau in many cases.
Tomb blades are great for Maelstrom purposes or for Linebreaker. Currently, if I have the points, I try to fit in 1 or 2 tomb blades into my army. I wouldn't recommend 3 because they are both a VP and a Scouring liability.
Happyjew wrote: For those wondering, Mephrit Dynasty allows Troops to re-roll 1's when making RP rolls.
Dozer Blade, Heirodule do not provide Synapse, but they are not affected by Instinctive Behaviour.
jy2, I'm assuming that the Termagants either passed IB or rolled a 4+?
I believe his termagants failed their IB test and fell back, but regrouped later when the flyrants came in.
The reason I asked is because at the start of (Game) Turn 2, they were in the same location as previously, so it appears they did not fall back at all.
I see what you're saying. I do recall that they failed 1 IB test and fell back, but which turn it was, I don't remember exactly. Perhaps it was in one of the later turns and that they passed IB on Turn 1.
necron99 wrote: Now you've done it...I have to go and look up what you get for a Mephrit Dynasty detachment
Edit:
....several hours later....
Just switched over my list to Mephrit. Gave both OL Solar Thermasite
Yeah, I wanted to give both of my Overlords the Solar Thermasite. Unfortunately, the Relics are unique. Only 1 per army.
I guess it helps to actually, you know, read the stinkin' rules I never worked with relics before - just noticed you could only have one per army. Still pretty darn good. What do you think about the Edge of Eternity? It says it has a precision strike on a 2+? Does that mean the OL hits and precision strikes on a 2+ instead of hitting using its normal WS?
Wow, that was just a painful batrep to read. When I first saw both lists I thought it would be seal clubbing for you, since I did not see that Tyranid list as very good at all.
The Hierodule got extremely lucky and won the entire game for him IMO. Taking out 2 bargelords in one turn (one in assault and one in the following shooting phase) was pretty unrecoverable.
herpguy wrote: Wow, that was just a painful batrep to read. When I first saw both lists I thought it would be seal clubbing for you, since I did not see that Tyranid list as very good at all.
The Hierodule got extremely lucky and won the entire game for him IMO. Taking out 2 bargelords in one turn (one in assault and one in the following shooting phase) was pretty unrecoverable.
I did get very lucky with my saves in this game. As for the Hierodule it is leadership 10. I have a good chance of passing mss with it.
He focused on the BH so much that it allowed me to for the most part control the rest of the board. I think if he had taken the BH shooting on the Barges instead of the lords they may have lived. He jinked with both of them then put all the damage on the lords. Getting a 1 in both cases where in my favor. I still don't know why he didn't take the saves on the barge after the first one died.
As for my list it is not very threatening. But it has the tools I needed to put pressure anywhere I wanted it. I am making some changes to it but it played well vs. some very good people. I went on to have a heartbreaking lost VS Ben Freedom in round 2. A very bloody game Vs. Frankie in round 4. Lost that on the last turn on the last roll of the dice it was a great game as well. I ended the tourney 1-4. but learned a lot and tested my skills vs. some very good player by anyone's standards.
I was very worried about playing Jim. He is a good player with a army he knew how to play well. I didn't know what he would do. I had seen him pull some crazy thing in games. It did give me a huge boost for facing what else I did for the tourney.
The gaunts pass their leadership in the 1st turn and failed the leadership in the 4th but didn't run off the board by game end.
iddy00711 wrote: If it's any comfort, crons just took the Caledonian. Apparently the list had 3+ pylons.
No worries.
The Pylonstar is a different beast. It's more like the centurionstar in that it can really mess up your army, especially if you don't have any experience with it, but it's also got some bad matchups as well. But just like the centurionstar (which I will face later in the tournament), it's strong enough to win a GT.
The Caledonian FAQ's helped it out by allowing it to hurt swooping FMC's just as long as the FMC isn't the first unit the line touches.
djones520 wrote: I hate to say it, but it was almost satisfying seeing you lose like that. (I got fed my lunch by Crons today...)
I'm not a total jerk though, hope the rest of your tourney went well.
No worries.
Yeah, they were about due to get theirs. I was just hoping it wouldn't be in a tournament environment....at least not this early.
I guess it helps to actually, you know, read the stinkin' rules I never worked with relics before - just noticed you could only have one per army. Still pretty darn good. What do you think about the Edge of Eternity? It says it has a precision strike on a 2+? Does that mean the OL hits and precision strikes on a 2+ instead of hitting using its normal WS?
I think the rules for the EoE is messed up.
As currently written (RAW), it's not saying you Precision Strike on a 2+. Rather, you get the EoE rules on a 2+. So that means on a 2+, you get the Precision Strike rule....not you Precision Strike on a 2+. And since you only hit targets on 3+ or 4+'s, that just means you always have Precision Strikes.
BTW, the hardback copy of the rules does not have the (2+) part in it.
To me, it isn't great. I'd rather keep the AP1, because power fist sergeants, you can always challenge anyways.
herpguy wrote: Wow, that was just a painful batrep to read. When I first saw both lists I thought it would be seal clubbing for you, since I did not see that Tyranid list as very good at all.
The Hierodule got extremely lucky and won the entire game for him IMO. Taking out 2 bargelords in one turn (one in assault and one in the following shooting phase) was pretty unrecoverable.
Yeah, Barbie just killed me in that game. Oh, how I hate him. He actually consistently takes out large portions of my army in the 4-5 games I've played against him. That's probably why I tried so hard to kill him in this game, but it just wasn't meant to be.
herpguy wrote: Wow, that was just a painful batrep to read. When I first saw both lists I thought it would be seal clubbing for you, since I did not see that Tyranid list as very good at all.
The Hierodule got extremely lucky and won the entire game for him IMO. Taking out 2 bargelords in one turn (one in assault and one in the following shooting phase) was pretty unrecoverable.
I did get very lucky with my saves in this game. As for the Hierodule it is leadership 10. I have a good chance of passing mss with it.
He focused on the BH so much that it allowed me to for the most part control the rest of the board. I think if he had taken the BH shooting on the Barges instead of the lords they may have lived. He jinked with both of them then put all the damage on the lords. Getting a 1 in both cases where in my favor. I still don't know why he didn't take the saves on the barge after the first one died.
As for my list it is not very threatening. But it has the tools I needed to put pressure anywhere I wanted it. I am making some changes to it but it played well vs. some very good people. I went on to have a heartbreaking lost VS Ben Freedom in round 2. A very bloody game Vs. Frankie in round 4. Lost that on the last turn on the last roll of the dice it was a great game as well. I ended the tourney 1-4. but learned a lot and tested my skills vs. some very good player by anyone's standards.
I was very worried about playing Jim. He is a good player with a army he knew how to play well. I didn't know what he would do. I had seen him pull some crazy thing in games. It did give me a huge boost for facing what else I did for the tourney.
The gaunts pass their leadership in the 1st turn and failed the leadership in the 4th but didn't run off the board by game end.
Thanks for the game, Chancy. I will add your comments to my Post-game Thoughts.
The reason I allocated the hits - which BTW was very good with 10 wounds out of 12 BS3 shots - was this. 5 S10 hits has almost as good a chance to kill my barge as it did my Overlord. However, the difference is this. If my Lord dies and gets back up, he would still have a AV13 chariot. However, if my barge gets penned and dies, it will only have AV11 when my Lord gets back up. That will make him basically vulnerable to the flyrants when he gets back up.
Some stunning looking armies there, thanks for sharing!
Im gonna pop for the Scar Bikes, Sisters with Knight and Cron air with Knight as top contenders?
jy2 wrote: Too bad we didn't get to play. I don't think that you'd like my army very much. Lol.
Yeah, Command Barges are harsh against Wave Serpents- I really cleaned up with mine at the Harvester, so I wouldn't have relished that angle. I do have quite a bit of AP1/2 firepower for dealing with them, though (that's one of the main purposes of the Riptide) and even just the regular Broadsides and torrent down a non-Thermasite Barge in relatively short order. I definitely would've taken quite a bit of damage, but I think it's a match where we both have a fair shot at winning. Maybe at LVO we'll get to see how it goes for realsies.
I prepare for assault. However, one of my barges is about 8" away and has to go through cover.
I suspect you are well aware of this, but just to be sure: you know that Chariots aren't slowed by terrain when charging and can reroll either or both dice when doing so, right? It's one of the things a lot of people don't notice.
jy2 wrote: However, in 7th, the matchup between Tau and Necrons have tilted more towards Necrons than ever. It really is a bad matchup for Tau in many cases.
I think it depends on the Tau list a lot. Necrons put a lot of pressure on them early with Command Barges, but Tau have lots of high-Strength shots (including blasts, denying you the ability to put them on the Overlord) and abundant Tank Hunter, both of which can be a nightmare. Riptides in particular can be a huge spoiler for CCBs if the dice go right.
herpguy wrote: Wow, that was just a painful batrep to read. When I first saw both lists I thought it would be seal clubbing for you, since I did not see that Tyranid list as very good at all.
The Hierodule got extremely lucky and won the entire game for him IMO. Taking out 2 bargelords in one turn (one in assault and one in the following shooting phase) was pretty unrecoverable.
The Heirodule is actually pretty brutal against Necrons, because they have very good ways to deal with something like that. Stomp doesn't care about Mindshackle and will pretty easily destroy a Barge in one go, S10 shots (even if they are unreliable and AP3) are the bane of Quantum Shielding units, and Necrons don't have any good Ignores Cover firepower to get rid of the Malanthrope. I think other versions of the 'Nid list that people ran at the tournament are better, but the 'Nid player absolutely has the tools to wreck face in this matchup- the Heirodule and Carnifexes (thanks to S9 Hammer of Wrath hits) are natural counters to the Bargelords in a lot of ways.
Maybe. I'd rather bring the newcrons, but it'll probably depend on if I have enough time to build the newest competitive Necron army. If not, then I may be forced to use my oldcrons.
Or I might bring Tyranids. Or maybe the centurionstar.
At this point, it's probably a 25% chance at best that I bring my oldcrons. I'll put out a poll probably come February to ask the people of dakka what they want to see me run.
It's a dice game. Doesn't matter how good you are or your list is, anything is possible. But I'm not bummed out at all. Had a great time at the event.
Ratius wrote: Some stunning looking armies there, thanks for sharing!
Im gonna pop for the Scar Bikes, Sisters with Knight and Cron air with Knight as top contenders?
Knights didn't do so hot. Sisters actually made it to the Top 10! White Scars ran by Jeremy Veysseire did very well and I believe the best Necron player took 12th or something like that.
jy2 wrote: Too bad we didn't get to play. I don't think that you'd like my army very much. Lol.
Yeah, Command Barges are harsh against Wave Serpents- I really cleaned up with mine at the Harvester, so I wouldn't have relished that angle. I do have quite a bit of AP1/2 firepower for dealing with them, though (that's one of the main purposes of the Riptide) and even just the regular Broadsides and torrent down a non-Thermasite Barge in relatively short order. I definitely would've taken quite a bit of damage, but I think it's a match where we both have a fair shot at winning. Maybe at LVO we'll get to see how it goes for realsies.
I prepare for assault. However, one of my barges is about 8" away and has to go through cover.
I suspect you are well aware of this, but just to be sure: you know that Chariots aren't slowed by terrain when charging and can reroll either or both dice when doing so, right? It's one of the things a lot of people don't notice.
jy2 wrote: However, in 7th, the matchup between Tau and Necrons have tilted more towards Necrons than ever. It really is a bad matchup for Tau in many cases.
I think it depends on the Tau list a lot. Necrons put a lot of pressure on them early with Command Barges, but Tau have lots of high-Strength shots (including blasts, denying you the ability to put them on the Overlord) and abundant Tank Hunter, both of which can be a nightmare. Riptides in particular can be a huge spoiler for CCBs if the dice go right.
herpguy wrote: Wow, that was just a painful batrep to read. When I first saw both lists I thought it would be seal clubbing for you, since I did not see that Tyranid list as very good at all.
The Hierodule got extremely lucky and won the entire game for him IMO. Taking out 2 bargelords in one turn (one in assault and one in the following shooting phase) was pretty unrecoverable.
The Heirodule is actually pretty brutal against Necrons, because they have very good ways to deal with something like that. Stomp doesn't care about Mindshackle and will pretty easily destroy a Barge in one go, S10 shots (even if they are unreliable and AP3) are the bane of Quantum Shielding units, and Necrons don't have any good Ignores Cover firepower to get rid of the Malanthrope. I think other versions of the 'Nid list that people ran at the tournament are better, but the 'Nid player absolutely has the tools to wreck face in this matchup- the Heirodule and Carnifexes (thanks to S9 Hammer of Wrath hits) are natural counters to the Bargelords in a lot of ways.
Let me tell you the chances of mechdar without any wraithknights beating my oldcrons. Their chances of winning are about 0% - nil.
But that is the oldcrons. I'm don't know how the newcrons will do, though I hear that their Overlords will be losing their chariots.
With regards to the chariots, I actually made a mistake and thought that they were slowed by difficult terrain. But I do know that they can re-roll their charge distances.
Not even the Firebase Cadre has what it takes to stop a bargelord, and I'm running three. I can tell you now that, short of dice issues like in this game, my oldcrons will roll over most Tau builds.
Yeah, massed S10 is the bane of my army, whether shooting of assault. That's why I hate units like Barbie and wraithknights. They can really mess up my day. Other stuff, I can basically brush off.
yeah not going to lie JY. I think you would be hard pressed if we played as first game in LVO. I have a lot of high Strength shooting and assault which will ignore your cover while having tank hunter/reroll.
If you get in melee with the Barge lords they have a high chance not lasting either. I played a similar list like this and every game its been over by turn 2 with him hoping his three flyers come on the board.
Darkwynn wrote: yeah not going to lie JY. I think you would be hard pressed if we played as first game in LVO. I have a lot of high Strength shooting and assault which will ignore your cover while having tank hunter/reroll.
If you get in melee with the Barge lords they have a high chance not lasting either. I played a similar list like this and every game its been over by turn 2 with him hoping his three flyers come on the board.
Ouch. Sounds harsh.
BTW, we WILL play round 1. I've already told Reece that we want to play against each other in a challenge match and he was ok with it. He's allowing Challenge matches.
Dozer Blades wrote: I am hoping there is more terrain at Vegas to help even things up a bit .
Terrain should be good in Vegas. Though in all fairness, the tables that I played on at TSHFT wasn't too bad with regards to terrain. I guess I got lucky and got the tables with decent terrain.
Darkwynn wrote: yeah not going to lie JY. I think you would be hard pressed if we played as first game in LVO. I have a lot of high Strength shooting and assault which will ignore your cover while having tank hunter/reroll.
If you get in melee with the Barge lords they have a high chance not lasting either. I played a similar list like this and every game its been over by turn 2 with him hoping his three flyers come on the board.
Ouch. Sounds harsh.
BTW, we WILL play round 1. I've already told Reece that we want to play against each other in a challenge match and he was ok with it. He's allowing Challenge matches.
Dozer Blades wrote: I am hoping there is more terrain at Vegas to help even things up a bit .
Terrain should be good in Vegas. Though in all fairness, the tables that I played on at TSHFT wasn't too bad with regards to terrain. I guess I got lucky and got the tables with decent terrain.
Well just depends if Reece remembers to do it ...
Though you might want to hope for new necrons in time.
You shouldn't worry about cover anyways. you bring your own with Jink.
Darkwynn wrote: yeah not going to lie JY. I think you would be hard pressed if we played as first game in LVO. I have a lot of high Strength shooting and assault which will ignore your cover while having tank hunter/reroll.
If you get in melee with the Barge lords they have a high chance not lasting either. I played a similar list like this and every game its been over by turn 2 with him hoping his three flyers come on the board.
Ouch. Sounds harsh.
BTW, we WILL play round 1. I've already told Reece that we want to play against each other in a challenge match and he was ok with it. He's allowing Challenge matches.
Dozer Blades wrote: I am hoping there is more terrain at Vegas to help even things up a bit .
Terrain should be good in Vegas. Though in all fairness, the tables that I played on at TSHFT wasn't too bad with regards to terrain. I guess I got lucky and got the tables with decent terrain.
Well just depends if Reece remembers to do it ...
Though you might want to hope for new necrons in time.
You shouldn't worry about cover anyways. you bring your own with Jink.
Don't worry, I'll remind him. I go to Frontline just about every other week.
I'm sure the Newcrons will be out before the LVO and because it's less than 1 month, the TO's will allow for both the old and the new. I would rather bring the new, but I'll probably have to buy/build/paint almost a new army. If I can do that in time, then I'll probably do so. We'll see.
Of course there's always a chance that I may bring Tyranids just to try to beat iNcontrol Geoff for the Best Tyranid player spot.
Yeah, I don't worry about cover. What I do want is BLOS terrain, which my tables usually had.
Nope. Tyranids, Daemons, Necrons....none of my armies ignore jink.
Well at least two of those have weight of fire and great mobility. Ignoring cover is so huge now... Seems like massed fire power and cover are the two biggest things mechanics in the game now.
jy2 wrote: Let me tell you the chances of mechdar without any wraithknights beating my oldcrons. Their chances of winning are about 0% - nil.
Pfft, bring it, son. I play your Oldcrons any day and show you what time it is.
Not even the Firebase Cadre has what it takes to stop a bargelord, and I'm running three. I can tell you now that, short of dice issues like in this game, my oldcrons will roll over most Tau builds.
That's not actually really true- looking at the two units of Broadsides and assuming High-Yield Missiles, they put down an average 18 hits; presuming that you put those hits onto the Barge (and that you Jinked), that is just shy of 3 full HP removed from them alone. (If you put the hits on the Overlord, he has to roll 15 saves instead, meaning almost three full unsaved wounds, so either way it goes pretty badly.) Add in the Riptide and it'll usually down a Command Barge in one go, barring the Thermasite of course. (Thermasite is where I usually aim the Riptide at, since it has a pretty reasonable chance of putting a penetrating through and thus drastically decreasing his defenses.)
With Markerlights and/or a Support Commander to enhance them, a good Tau army should pretty easily drop two regular Command Barges in a single turn and likely has enough guns to bring down the Thermasite Barge next turn. It'll take a bunch of damage in the meantime, of course, but when it's bringing down 800pts of your army that's to be expected.
Of course there's always a chance that I may bring Tyranids just to try to beat iNcontrol Geoff for the Best Tyranid player spot.
Also would have to try and beat me for best Tyranid....
You are right. You would be the Tyranid player to beat....if you were on the West Coast. It's more of a local, friendly rivalry thing between Geoff and I in some of the West Coast tournaments. We (or rather, I) just don't play enough against the Midwest/East Coast players to actually "compete" against them. Then again, I am just starting to venture out more to some of the East Coast/Midwest tournaments.
Nope. Tyranids, Daemons, Necrons....none of my armies ignore jink.
Well at least two of those have weight of fire and great mobility. Ignoring cover is so huge now... Seems like massed fire power and cover are the two biggest things mechanics in the game now.
It is, which is why Eldar and Tau are perennial top-tier contenders. They have such a huge advantage over most armies with both massed firepower and the ability to ignore cover.
Not even the Firebase Cadre has what it takes to stop a bargelord, and I'm running three. I can tell you now that, short of dice issues like in this game, my oldcrons will roll over most Tau builds.
That's not actually really true- looking at the two units of Broadsides and assuming High-Yield Missiles, they put down an average 18 hits; presuming that you put those hits onto the Barge (and that you Jinked), that is just shy of 3 full HP removed from them alone. (If you put the hits on the Overlord, he has to roll 15 saves instead, meaning almost three full unsaved wounds, so either way it goes pretty badly.) Add in the Riptide and it'll usually down a Command Barge in one go, barring the Thermasite of course. (Thermasite is where I usually aim the Riptide at, since it has a pretty reasonable chance of putting a penetrating through and thus drastically decreasing his defenses.)
With Markerlights and/or a Support Commander to enhance them, a good Tau army should pretty easily drop two regular Command Barges in a single turn and likely has enough guns to bring down the Thermasite Barge next turn. It'll take a bunch of damage in the meantime, of course, but when it's bringing down 800pts of your army that's to be expected.
Doesn't matter how many times you take them out, my bargelords JUST GET BACK UP! Hahaha. That's the frustrating part about them. It takes almost the entire firepower of your army just to take down 1 (or if you have massed S10 shooting, maybe 2) but then your eyes will roll when they just pick themselves back up. That's the real secret of the crons....there's a 50% chance for their 300-pt unit to just get back up and now you've got to re-allocate a prodigious amount of resources just to put them down again.
However, all that just may become moot in about a week, as their is a chance that bargelords won't be back for the newcrons.
Of course there's always a chance that I may bring Tyranids just to try to beat iNcontrol Geoff for the Best Tyranid player spot.
Also would have to try and beat me for best Tyranid....
You are right. You would be the Tyranid player to beat....if you were on the West Coast. It's more of a local, friendly rivalry thing between Geoff and I in some of the West Coast tournaments. We (or rather, I) just don't play enough against the Midwest/East Coast players to actually "compete" against them. Then again, I am just starting to venture out more to some of the East Coast/Midwest tournaments.
Perhaps our paths will cross one of these days.
Oh well I was jumping in on the discussion between you and Nick which seemed centered around LVO.... which I will be at.
I hope you made him an offer on his model after the tourney so you could go office space it in some lonely field?
Sometimes the models you fear/hate most just hex your dice, no idea why
He is the bane of my Necron existence, which is why I won't take him in my Tyranid list. (Haha....also to differentiate my Tyranids from Geoff's Tyranids.)
Oh well I was jumping in on the discussion between you and Nick which seemed centered around LVO.... which I will be at.
Haha. There's just soooo many players I would love to play against. There's you, Nick Nanavati, Alex Fennel, my East Coast rival (and ex-roommate, who's beaten me twice already!) Mr Eric Hoerger, PanzerLeader, just so many people....
I hope I get to play against you after I beat Nick. After you, I hope I get the other Nick....
Haha sounds like you will be busy. So we can silently compete to see whose tyranids finish highest.
It will be interesting and hopefully I get to play a bunch of people Ive not met before. Trouble with a lot of us east coast players traveling is we end up playing each other again and again. I think ive played Nanavanti 7+ times at GT's and Ill likely play him at least one or two more times before LVO. And Alex and I used to do a lot of prep together though we've both been busy with real life lately.
But yeah the only player Ive had the chance to play that I know is from the west coast is Geoff... so Ill be excited to meet new players at LVO.
I ran the Ghazghkull's Bullyboyz as an ally after seeing them in action at Nova last year. As long as the trucks don't get shot out from under them they will mess you up. I played one game against someone running Eldar with the adamantine lance. By turn two the meganobs had killed off all three knights. Of course the ensuing explosions killed off all but one units of meganobs...and I lost some from general combat.
1. Hold Objective 1.
2. Hold Objective 2.
3. Hold Objective 3.
4. Have more scoring units at least partially within No-Man's-Land than your opponent.
5. Have a scoring unit at least partially within 12" of the opponent's deployment zone.
6. Have at least 3 of your and no enemy scoring units within 12" of your own deployment edge.
Tertiary Objectives: First Blood, Linebreaker, Slay the Warlord, 1-pt each
Oliver actually played against my teammate, Grant Theft Auto, on Round #1. Oliver ended up conceding on Turn 1 after the Lynx hit both Sicarians with its Destroyer blast and then rolled a 6 to take them both out. Looking at my opponent's army, I am not too concerned. Sure, I've got a lot more kill points in my army than his. However, I don't think his army can take on 3 bargelords. They should be able to tear up his armor like tissue paper. I just need to avoid his Imperial Knight and let my haywire crypteks deal with him. Barring the same type of dice I had on Game #1, I think that this should be a relatively easy win for me. I just need to make sure that my bargelords don't get charged by his Imperial Knight and I should be good.
1. Hold Objective 1.
5. Have a scoring unit at least partially within 12" of the opponent's deployment zone.
Necrons:
3. Hold Objective 3.
6. Have at least 3 of your and no enemy scoring units within 12" of your own deployment edge.
Oliver moves his Imperial Knight to within 12" of my deployment edge.
The rest of his army moves.
Shooting could not have gone better for my opponent. As a matter of fact, his shooting was red-hot.
His IK puts 1W on my bargelord and takes out my annihilation barge (AB) for First Blood.
VP's - Necrons: 0, Space Marines: 1
For the life of me, I just could not make a 4+ jink cover save!
Space Marine shooting pens another 2 barges, immobilizing 1 and stunning another!
Wow! 2 barges out of action already. Not looking like a great start.
Necrons 1
Spoiler:
Smelling blood, my bargelords go after his HQ + attack bikes.
My Warlord moves flat-out into the heart of Oliver's army.
With only 1 barge shooting, I don't believe that I do any damage.
Only 1 bargelord makes the charge.
Despite his HQ getting mindshackled, I only manage to do 1W to the unit.
I get 1 Maelstrom VP for holding Objective #3 (my warriors). Oliver gets 1 VP as well for having a unit within 12" of my deployment edge (his IK).
Maelstrom VP's - Necrons: 1, Space Marines: 1
Space Marines 2
Spoiler:
Maelstrom Objectives:
Space Marines:
3. Hold Objective 3.
6. Have at least 3 of your and no enemy scoring units within 12" of your own deployment edge.
Necrons:
1. Hold Objective 1.
4. Have more scoring units at least partially within No-Man's-Land than your opponent.
IK goes after my bargelord. Because he is planning to charge and because my lord is locked in combat, there is not shooting by the IK. It would later fail its charge as well.
Tanks spread out.
Shooting puts 2W on my Warlord, despite the re-rollable 2+ saves!
Worse yet, a Sicarian shoots at one of my bargelords. I opt to put the shots on the lord....and fail 3 out of 6 2+ saves!
He doesn't get back up!!!
VP's - Necrons: 0, Space Marines: 2
To make matters worse, his Lord passes his Mindshackle tests and they kill off my bargelord in assault. He doesn't get back up either!!!
VP's - Necrons: 0, Space Marines: 3
When it rains, it pours. This game is turning out to be a disaster for my crons!
Necrons 2
Spoiler:
My 2 scythes with my haywire crypteks come in. They go after 2 different facings of the IK.
My Warlord sweeps the bottom Sicarian and immobilizes it.
Shooting by my 2 AB's kill off 2 attack bikes.
Warriors and night scythes manage to take out his IK.
VP's - Necrons: 1, Space Marines: 3
However, Oliver makes a mistake here. My warriors are in the outer-ring of the explosion. Oliver then tells me that they take AP3 hits (it should have only been AP5 hits). Thus, the explosion kills 2 warriors from each unit.
They both then fail morale and fall back. One falls off the table. The other unit would actually fail to regroup and fall off the table next turn.
Wow!!! 3 failed LD10 morale tests in a row!!!
VP's - Necrons: 1, Space Marines: 5
Finally, my Warlord assaults and wrecks a Sicarian.
VP's - Necrons: 2, Space Marines: 5
Oliver doesn't get a Maelstrom objective this turn. I get 1-VP for having more units in No-Man's-Land than my opponent.
Maelstrom VP's - Necrons: 2, Space Marines: 1
Space Marines 3
Spoiler:
Maelstrom Objectives:
Space Marines:
2. Hold Objective 2.
5. Have a scoring unit at least partially within 12" of the opponent's deployment zone.
Necrons:
3. Hold Objective 3.
4. Have more scoring units at least partially within No-Man's-Land than your opponent.
His HQ breaks off from the bikers and go after my Warlord.
Master of the Forge (MotF) disembarks from the Achilles to go repair the Sicarian.
Shooting kills one of my barges, who still continue to fail its cover saves.
VP's - Necrons: 2, Space Marines: 6
Biker captain then charges my Warlord....
Again, my passes his Mindshackle tests and proceed to finish off my Overlord.
And again....for the 3rd straight time this game (and 6 out of the last 7 attempts since Game #1), my bargelord would fail to get back up.
Oliver gets Slay the Warlord.
VP's - Necrons: 2, Space Marines: 7
Necrons 3
Spoiler:
The rest of my flyers come in.
Necron movement.
Night scythes take out the Sicarian. They also take off another 1W from the Biker captain.
VP's - Necrons: 3, Space Marines: 7
AB takes out the last attack bike.
VP's - Necrons: 4, Space Marines: 7
I get both of my Maelstrom objectives this turn (warriors on Objective #3 and more units in No-Man's-Land than my opponent). Oliver gets none.
Maelstrom VP's - Necrons: 4, Space Marines: 1
Space Marines 4
Spoiler:
Maelstrom Objectives:
Space Marines:
1. Hold Objective 1.
4. Have more scoring units at least partially within No-Man's-Land than your opponent.
Necrons:
1. Hold Objective 1.
3. Hold Objective 3.
Thunderfire from the Achilles and the scouts take out my warriors.
VP's - Necrons: 4, Space Marines: 8
The Achilles also take out the immobilized AB.
VP's - Necrons: 4, Space Marines: 9
Necrons 4
Spoiler:
I grab both of my Maelstrom objectives this turn.
Maelstrom VP's - Necrons: 6, Space Marines: 1
At this point, we call it.
I'm way too far behind in Purge to come back, especially since most of my shooting is gone.
At the same time, Oliver is way too far behind in the secondary, the Maelstrom objectives, to catch up either.
He takes Primary + First Blood + Warlord for 6-pts. I take Secondary for 3-pts.
All I can say is...HOLY SH*T! Wow, 2 devastating losses in a row and against my super-powerful Necrons! What can I say? Sh*t happens, especially in a dice again. Oh well, no need to analyze the game too deeply. It just wasn't meant to be. That's fine. Midway through the game, I've already changed my mentality from competitive mode to fun mode. Time to get the drinks in early and to just enjoy myself.
Coming up next, my Oldcrons vs my teammate, Frankie's awesomely-painted Dark Eldar with 5 Talos! BTW, he is 1-1 and lost to a really good player, Jeremy Veysseire, in a very close matchup. Because of a mix-up, I got paired upwards but that is fine. The way my dice is going, maybe today will be the day that Frankie finally wins one over me.
Oliver actually played against my teammate, Grant Theft Auto, on Round #1. Oliver ended up conceding on Turn 1 after the Lynx hit both Sicarians with its Destroyer blast and then rolled a 6 to take them both out.
Probably the same he would have felt had a drop pod landed near by and popped both tanks with melta guns, and for less resource cost from his opponent...
Oliver actually played against my teammate, Grant Theft Auto, on Round #1. Oliver ended up conceding on Turn 1 after the Lynx hit both Sicarians with its Destroyer blast and then rolled a 6 to take them both out.
Must have been one heck of an awesome feeling.
Ha ha I know right? He hopefully conceded knowing the inevitable clubbing and wanting to watch some other closer games rather then being bitter.
So what are the rules these days for dealing with a parking lot on top of a landing pad? I've had games where the other guy said if you couldn't fit your model on the pad you couldn't assault anything.
necron99 wrote: So what are the rules these days for dealing with a parking lot on top of a landing pad? I've had games where the other guy said if you couldn't fit your model on the pad you couldn't assault anything.
Wouldn't the rules for multi level structures come into play? Height wise you can fight 6 inches up if you are not in btb.
necron99 wrote: So what are the rules these days for dealing with a parking lot on top of a landing pad? I've had games where the other guy said if you couldn't fit your model on the pad you couldn't assault anything.
Wouldn't the rules for multi level structures come into play? Height wise you can fight 6 inches up if you are not in btb.
You can only fight 6" up while engaged. To engage, base contact is required. CC and multi level terrain is broken in 7th without house ruling.
Hahaha, well Jy2 when your rolling just happens to be full of "6's" for your first game there's nothing you can do.
Whatever as soon as all you take out the D then LOW type units like the barb and deathstars will start dominating the scene again
You guys are so quick to get rid of the lynx and the few experimental LOW D weapons that you don't realize that it has actually caused deathstars to slowly disappear
Reecius had to change the rules for that to occur plus it's obvious why you would defend it. Obviously it's potehtially very lop sided. I never heard of anyone quitting first turn of first round - sounds messed up.
Dozer, did you read jy2's pentyrant vs Eldar/Marines?
The Eldar player brought a Scorpion (I think). Then conceded turn 1. Two games in a row (Ok, the second game went on to turn 2).
Now grantd, the only reason the Eldar player did not concede Game Turn 1, Player Turn 1, is because he went first. After jy2's first turn, the guy conceded. Second game...did not go much better.
Happyjew wrote: Dozer, did you read jy2's pentyrant vs Eldar/Marines?
The Eldar player brought a Scorpion (I think). Then conceded turn 1. Two games in a row (Ok, the second game went on to turn 2).
Now grantd, the only reason the Eldar player did not concede Game Turn 1, Player Turn 1, is because he went first. After jy2's first turn, the guy conceded. Second game...did not go much better.
Two things to consider.
1. It was grant playing the 5 flyrants.
2. It was a friendly game, not a tournament.
I do see what your trying to say though. One doesn't need to look far off from D weapons to find cheesy crap that will force a similar result, but that doesn't mean you should start adding more problems. It makes me thing of "The Old Lady Who Swallowed a Fly."
Happyjew wrote: Dozer, did you read jy2's pentyrant vs Eldar/Marines?
The Eldar player brought a Scorpion (I think). Then conceded turn 1. Two games in a row (Ok, the second game went on to turn 2).
Now grantd, the only reason the Eldar player did not concede Game Turn 1, Player Turn 1, is because he went first. After jy2's first turn, the guy conceded. Second game...did not go much better.
Two things to consider.
1. It was grant playing the 5 flyrants.
2. It was a friendly game, not a tournament.
I do see what your trying to say though. One doesn't need to look far off from D weapons to find cheesy crap that will force a similar result, but that doesn't mean you should start adding more problems. It makes me thing of "The Old Lady Who Swallowed a Fly."
Actually it was Jy2 playing the Flyrants against Grant.
It was a Lynx (proxied with a Scorpion)
It was tournament practice, Grant didn't feel like he had many options at that point and opted to get another game in, could he have won? Maybe but the wind was out of his sails so to speak at that point and he was the one playing the 'broken' unit. Jy2 was just playing the 'broken' build
The game as it stands now for tournament play has almost devolved into the need to field deathstars, to counter some of the extreme builds, which then requires additional tools to counter those, which is sort of funny as it comes back around full circle at that point, extreme list=deathstar=D weapon=extreme list and on and on and on.
using the Tournament format as it is now, I think a better way to go (or the direction to go in) is to keep the detachment/formation as it is now but place a % restriction on any one type of organizational slot based on your forces points. It will trim out the deathstars a bit, put restrictions on some of the crazy LOW (note I don't consider the Lynx crazy good, I consider it good, but hardly broken), and bring the game to a closer semblance of balance (well to a degree at least, some armies will still fair better there is no getting around that).
Grant Theft Auto wrote: Hahaha, well Jy2 when your rolling just happens to be full of "6's" for your first game there's nothing you can do.
Whatever as soon as all you take out the D then LOW type units like the barb and deathstars will start dominating the scene again
You guys are so quick to get rid of the lynx and the few experimental LOW D weapons that you don't realize that it has actually caused deathstars to slowly disappear
But Grant, aren't you still running a seer council (IE Deathstar) in your list?
Happyjew wrote: Dozer, did you read jy2's pentyrant vs Eldar/Marines?
The Eldar player brought a Scorpion (I think). Then conceded turn 1. Two games in a row (Ok, the second game went on to turn 2).
Now grantd, the only reason the Eldar player did not concede Game Turn 1, Player Turn 1, is because he went first. After jy2's first turn, the guy conceded. Second game...did not go much better.
Two things to consider.
1. It was grant playing the 5 flyrants.
2. It was a friendly game, not a tournament.
I do see what your trying to say though. One doesn't need to look far off from D weapons to find cheesy crap that will force a similar result, but that doesn't mean you should start adding more problems. It makes me thing of "The Old Lady Who Swallowed a Fly."
Actually it was Jy2 playing the Flyrants against Grant.
It was a Lynx (proxied with a Scorpion)
It was tournament practice, Grant didn't feel like he had many options at that point and opted to get another game in, could he have won? Maybe but the wind was out of his sails so to speak at that point and he was the one playing the 'broken' unit. Jy2 was just playing the 'broken' build
The game as it stands now for tournament play has almost devolved into the need to field deathstars, to counter some of the extreme builds, which then requires additional tools to counter those, which is sort of funny as it comes back around full circle at that point, extreme list=deathstar=D weapon=extreme list and on and on and on.
using the Tournament format as it is now, I think a better way to go (or the direction to go in) is to keep the detachment/formation as it is now but place a % restriction on any one type of organizational slot based on your forces points. It will trim out the deathstars a bit, put restrictions on some of the crazy LOW (note I don't consider the Lynx crazy good, I consider it good, but hardly broken), and bring the game to a closer semblance of balance (well to a degree at least, some armies will still fair better there is no getting around that).
so you could still take your CAD +ally or formation or whatever but in total your values couldn't exceed the above.
EDIT: looking back at the 2nd codices they used:
up to 50% characters (HQ)
25%+ squads (troops)
up to 50% support (ELITE/FAST/HEAVY/LOW)
When I said he played 5 flyrants I meant he played AGAINST them. Sorry it wasn't written more clearly.
Percentage systems are clumsy and insane to keep track of which is why you don't see it often. Best solution is to return to an actual grand tournament experience of old and not the gladiator model everyone uses now. Players are held more accountable for showing up with a dick list. The event can always give 90% of the focus and prize support to the Ren man as well, causing a gradual shift in focus from attendees.
If the tournament is advertized and intended to be a no holds bard then I think the real issue is why anything is being restricted. If you want to find the nastiest list and winner for 40k in that area you need to actually play 40k not some TO's idea of what 40k should be. It's also fine to play a TO's version mind you, but i think the distinction should be pointed out.
Grant Theft Auto wrote: Hahaha, well Jy2 when your rolling just happens to be full of "6's" for your first game there's nothing you can do.
Whatever as soon as all you take out the D then LOW type units like the barb and deathstars will start dominating the scene again
You guys are so quick to get rid of the lynx and the few experimental LOW D weapons that you don't realize that it has actually caused deathstars to slowly disappear
But Grant, aren't you still running a seer council (IE Deathstar) in your list?
But he wants an answer to your deathstar so his can run wild
But seriously though, I've been playing my seer council consistently since 4th edition so I'm not going to disagree that it's in my list but I've run into problems with the lynx that it can't deal with and a good old seer council I've been able to counter the problem at least.
To be honest a ranged D weapon is very effective against vehicles but against infantry if their sticking to cover it's tough to do deal massive damage. Unless the player is rolling all "6's" then I would check his dice.
I've found a really effective way for armies or deathstars to counter my D, Thunderblitz, and Stomps. Is to just roll on the escalation warlord trait table. A "4" makes the unit immune to getting "6" out by -1 to those tables. The warlord and his entire unit benefit from that one in particular. But of course their are plenty more good traits on that table that are effective against a ranged D platform if that's what your facing.
necron99 wrote: So what are the rules these days for dealing with a parking lot on top of a landing pad? I've had games where the other guy said if you couldn't fit your model on the pad you couldn't assault anything.
Wouldn't the rules for multi level structures come into play? Height wise you can fight 6 inches up if you are not in btb.
You can only fight 6" up while engaged. To engage, base contact is required. CC and multi level terrain is broken in 7th without house ruling.
Right. So many parts of the rules need to be FAQ'd or at least house-ruled. Seems like GW, instead of making the rules tighter, have decided to make the rules looser instead.
I think what necron99 was talking about was filling up the skyshield pad with enough units so that you couldn't fit enemy models up there without being within 1" of an enemy model.
necron99 wrote: So what are the rules these days for dealing with a parking lot on top of a landing pad? I've had games where the other guy said if you couldn't fit your model on the pad you couldn't assault anything.
The way I play it is this. You cannot place a model if there is not enough space to legally do so in a multi-level ruins as far as the Movement phase is concerned. However, in the Assault phase, you can legally be within less than 1" of an enemy model. Thus, if you can see the model and roll the appropriate distance to make the charge, then I assume that you made it into base-to-base with the model even if your model can't actually fit on the building. You can call it the Wobbly-model-syndrome that you don't want to actually put your model up there because it will fall.
Again, the rules are not 100% clear on this and it requires a little common sense/house-ruling to reach such a decision. Just double-check with your opponent before the game.
Grant Theft Auto wrote: Hahaha, well Jy2 when your rolling just happens to be full of "6's" for your first game there's nothing you can do.
Whatever as soon as all you take out the D then LOW type units like the barb and deathstars will start dominating the scene again
You guys are so quick to get rid of the lynx and the few experimental LOW D weapons that you don't realize that it has actually caused deathstars to slowly disappear
What's up Grant!
First of all, my stance is this. There are a lot of broken units/mechanics in the game. 5 flyrants is broken. My AV13 army is broken. Mindshackles is broken. A deathstar unit that can lock itself in Assault to protect itself from shooting but leave whenever it wants (i.e. Hit-&-Run deathstars, Gating deathstars) is broken. The ability to ignore cover army-wide (or for a deathstar unit) is broken. The Lynx is broken because Destroyer weaponry is broken (the D SHOULDN'T have a place in regular 40K). However, that doesn't mean that I advocate the banning/nerfing of any of these units/mechanics/combos.
Secondly, fixing a problem with another problem doesn't necessarily make it better (2 wrongs do not make a right). This was the issue first introduced in 6th with the integration of D weaponry. Yeah, they will discourage deathstar builds. However, that doesn't really solve anything. All it does is to introduce another set up problems to the game. At least in 7th, they've toned down the D a lot. It was just ridiculous in 6th.
using the Tournament format as it is now, I think a better way to go (or the direction to go in) is to keep the detachment/formation as it is now but place a % restriction on any one type of organizational slot based on your forces points. It will trim out the deathstars a bit, put restrictions on some of the crazy LOW (note I don't consider the Lynx crazy good, I consider it good, but hardly broken), and bring the game to a closer semblance of balance (well to a degree at least, some armies will still fair better there is no getting around that).
so you could still take your CAD +ally or formation or whatever but in total your values couldn't exceed the above.
EDIT: looking back at the 2nd codices they used:
up to 50% characters (HQ)
25%+ squads (troops)
up to 50% support (ELITE/FAST/HEAVY/LOW)
I don't think this is a solution. While it encourages a somewhat more balanced build, it also renders a lot of builds obsolete (like deathstars or the current Tyranids and many hammer-&-anvil-type lists). Moreover, it forces some armies to use their rather lackluster troop selections. There is a reason why so many armies run min-troop builds. That is because their troops are the weakest and least killy units in the dex.
I don't think there is any real solution, as each suggested solution comes with its own share of problems. Better to leave things the way they are, with a few modifications to certain builds/units as necessary, because that will impact a lot less people than a more general change like the army% change.
Wow failing that many 2+ re rolling saves is unbelievable bad luck. I don't know if assaulting the chapter master was a good idea though. I'd wager him beating a barge lord most of the time.
I don't think a % based system is a good idea. Firstly it can be pretty confusing, and secondly forcing armies to take more points in troops punishes everybody but eldar. It's not like eldar need a buff.
I'm not sure why tournaments are limiting it to 2 detachments though. Is there some broken build that this stops. I think it really discourages small formations like the tyranid spore mine formation. If you take the spore mine formation then you are limited to two hive tyrants.
coblen wrote: Wow failing that many 2+ re rolling saves is unbelievable bad luck. I don't know if assaulting the chapter master was a good idea though. I'd wager him beating a barge lord most of the time.
I don't think a % based system is a good idea. Firstly it can be pretty confusing, and secondly forcing armies to take more points in troops punishes everybody but eldar. It's not like eldar need a buff.
I'm not sure why tournaments are limiting it to 2 detachments though. Is there some broken build that this stops. I think it really discourages small formations like the tyranid spore mine formation. If you take the spore mine formation then you are limited to two hive tyrants.
I think that's the point. 2 detachments forces you to make deliberate trade offs. Take my Sister-AM list for example. After buying all my normal stuff for the Sisters CAD and AM allied detachments, I normally end up right around 1850 points. In 2 detachment limits, I the spend the last ~50 points on melta bombs, combi-meltas and other "non-essential" war gear. If the cap wasn't there, I would invest in a 33 point servo skull inquisitor every time to stop scout and infiltrate shenanigans. I could also easily thin out my Battle Sister squads and sneak an assassin in as well. Its not about stopping specifically broken builds, but forcing choices. Do you really want a knight to support your army or do you need an allied detachment more?
coblen wrote: Wow failing that many 2+ re rolling saves is unbelievable bad luck. I don't know if assaulting the chapter master was a good idea though. I'd wager him beating a barge lord most of the time.
I don't think a % based system is a good idea. Firstly it can be pretty confusing, and secondly forcing armies to take more points in troops punishes everybody but eldar. It's not like eldar need a buff.
I'm not sure why tournaments are limiting it to 2 detachments though. Is there some broken build that this stops. I think it really discourages small formations like the tyranid spore mine formation. If you take the spore mine formation then you are limited to two hive tyrants.
I was actually planning on charging his HQ's unit with 2 bargelords. But despite the re-roll on the charge, one of them just failed. It would have been a good trade-off for potentially 2-VP's as well as his Warlord had I made the charge. The difference was that his Warlord was making his 3++ (or maybe it was 4++ ) in cc whereas my Overlord wasn't making his 3++ (btw, his Chapter Master could not hurt my barge). And then my other bargelord failed 3 out of 6 2+ saves. It was just bad luck, but statistically, I should have held up his unit with 1 bargelord and most likely beat them with 2.
With regards to limiting detachment, that restricts the power combos out there. If there were no limits, there can be some truly nasty combos. Take my Pentyrant list and throw in that Spore Mine formation and you will have a truly scary list. Oh, and throw in an Inquisitor with servo-skulls in there while you are at it.
Dozer Blades wrote: Burn those dice Jim. I'd never roll them agsin. Not much else you can do. I hope you bounce back.
They've been both good and bad to me. At least they rolled high on occasions (failed morale), just not when I needed them to (saves, ever-living rolls).
coblen wrote: Wow failing that many 2+ re rolling saves is unbelievable bad luck. I don't know if assaulting the chapter master was a good idea though. I'd wager him beating a barge lord most of the time.
I don't think a % based system is a good idea. Firstly it can be pretty confusing, and secondly forcing armies to take more points in troops punishes everybody but eldar. It's not like eldar need a buff.
I'm not sure why tournaments are limiting it to 2 detachments though. Is there some broken build that this stops. I think it really discourages small formations like the tyranid spore mine formation. If you take the spore mine formation then you are limited to two hive tyrants.
I think that's the point. 2 detachments forces you to make deliberate trade offs. Take my Sister-AM list for example. After buying all my normal stuff for the Sisters CAD and AM allied detachments, I normally end up right around 1850 points. In 2 detachment limits, I the spend the last ~50 points on melta bombs, combi-meltas and other "non-essential" war gear. If the cap wasn't there, I would invest in a 33 point servo skull inquisitor every time to stop scout and infiltrate shenanigans. I could also easily thin out my Battle Sister squads and sneak an assassin in as well. Its not about stopping specifically broken builds, but forcing choices. Do you really want a knight to support your army or do you need an allied detachment more?
Exactly. You can get some truly stupid sh*t without limits to what you can do if you don't set limits to the game.
For my round #3 match, I got paired up against my friend and fellow teammate, Frankie aka The World's Greatest 40K Player. There was actually a pairing mixup going into this match. I was 0-2 and Frankie 1-1. However, I had no problems playing against his army (at this point, I didn't really care who I would be playing against). Also, I guess Frankie wanted to see if he could finally take one over me, especially in my "current" condition.
Just a little history between Frankie and I. I am basically Frankie's cooler. He hasn't won a game against my army since the very first time we played. It isn't because of skill. We are both relatively skilled. It's mainly the dice. For some inexplicable reason, I almost always roll better than him. Dice-wise, he just couldn't get a break from me, even when I brought my more "underdog" armies against his. However, so far in this tournament, my dice has been way off. Perhaps this would be the game where he (Frankie) can break the curse of the Jimbino? In any case, Frankie was willing to try his luck against the scrub with the 0-2 record.
By the ways, Frankie's newly redone Dark Eldar where a thing of beauty. His army won the Best Appearance award for the tournament (Best Appearance was voted on by the players) and deservedly so.
1. Hold Objective 1.
2. Hold Objective 2.
3. Destroy an enemy unit.
4. Destroy an enemy unit.
5. Have a scoring unit at least partially within the opponent's deployment zone.
6. Have at least 3 of your and no enemy scoring units partially within your deployment zone.
Tertiary Objectives: First Blood, Linebreaker, Slay the Warlord, 1-pt each
Traditionally, this should be a very bad matchup for Dark Eldar in general. It's almost like DE venom-spam vs Tyranids back in 5th Edition. My teslas will just wreck his skimmers and going 2nd, my flyers should get the alpha-strike against his flyers. The only thing that I may struggle against slightly is his formation of 5 Talos. That's 15 T7 wounds with 3+ and FNP. Sure I can probably lock them in combat if I put multiple bargelords against them, but if he can get them onto the Relic, it'll be hard to wrestle the Relic away from him.
Still, Frankie will need a bit of luck to pull a victory off of my Necrons. If my dice continues the way it has been going, then Frankie's got a chance to pull off the upset. Otherwise, his chances of winning is almost as great as a blind man watching porno (magazines) in the dark.
4. Destroy an enemy unit.
6. Have at least 3 of your and no enemy scoring units partially within your deployment zone.
Necrons:
3. Destroy an enemy unit.
5. Have a scoring unit at least partially within the opponent's deployment zone.
The Talos advance. Ravagers stay back. Sorry for the lack of pictures, but not much happens in this turn.
Ravagers fire but between jink saves and night-fight, they do nothing to my annihilation barges.
Necrons 1
Spoiler:
Necron movement. I move the AB that jinked. The other 3 AB's don't move.
Shooting by all 4 barges only manage to kill 1 talos and take off 1 or 2W from another talos.
I then move my barge-lords flat out, keeping 2 within counter-assault range for my AB's (but far enough from the Talos to make it a very difficult charge for them). I flat-out my Warlord as deep as I can into enemy territory, thus contesting one of his Maelstrom objectives (3 units in his deployment zone without an enemy unit contesting).
Frankie gets 0 Maelstrom objectives. I don't kill a unit, but I do manage to get 1 unit, my Warlord, into Frankie's deployment zone for 1 Maelstrom VP.
Maelstrom VP's - Dark Eldar: 0, Necrons: 1
Dark Eldar 2
Spoiler:
Maelstrom Objectives:
Dark Eldar:
3. Destroy an enemy unit.
5. Have a scoring unit at least partially within the opponent's deployment zone.
Necrons:
2. Hold Objective 2.
4. Destroy an enemy unit.
2 venoms come in (but not his Warlord)....
....as do 2 of his razorwings. Ravagers move away from my bargelord.
Talos advance, with the wounded guy shifting to the rear of the unit.
Splinter-cannon fire from the Talos kill 1 warrior....which is all they could see.
Between the 2 razorwings and 3 ravagers, DE shooting actually takes down 1 bargelord and put 1W on my Warlord.
Fortunately for me (and unfortunately for my opponent), the bargelord gets back up.
Necrons 2
Spoiler:
Only 1 flyer comes in (with cryptek).
Both of my bargelords advance. Warlord, however, would stay on Objective #2.
I surprise Frankie by moving flat-out with my night scythe instead of shooting at his talos. 1 of the bargelord opts to move flat-out.
Otherwise, my shooting is horrendous this turn. I might have taken off 1 or 2W from the talos (with 4 AB's!) but that is all.
Still, I am setting up myself for some major carnage next turn. I also grab 1 Maelstrom VP (bargelord on Objective #2) to 0 for Frankie.
Maelstrom VP's - Dark Eldar: 0, Necrons: 2
Dark Eldar 3
Spoiler:
Maelstrom Objectives:
Dark Eldar:
1. Hold Objective 1.
5. Have a scoring unit at least partially within the opponent's deployment zone.
Necrons:
2. Hold Objective 2.
3. Destroy an enemy unit.
The Dark Eldar back away. The other 2 venoms come in from reserves.
Razorwings fly off the table.
Talos go after my Warlord.
Unfortunately for my opponent, they would fail their charge (about 6").
Darklances take down my bargelord again....
....well, you know the drill. You just can't keep a good bargelord down.
Necrons 3
Spoiler:
1 flyer comes in. The other flyer on the table flies off.
I get ready for assault. BTW, the Talos have picked up the Relic....not that they are going to be able to hold onto it.
Bargelord sweeps and blows up a ravager. First Blood to Necrons.
I then shoot down 3 out of the 4 talos.
The 2 lords then charge the last talos.
I also charge another ravager.
Neither the ravager nor the talos survives.
I get both of my Maelstrom objectives. Frankie gets neither of his.
Maelstrom VP's - Dark Eldar: 0, Necrons: 4
Dark Eldar 4
Spoiler:
Maelstrom Objectives:
Dark Eldar:
4. Destroy an enemy unit.
5. Have a scoring unit at least partially within the opponent's deployment zone.
Necrons:
4. Destroy an enemy unit.
5. Have a scoring unit at least partially within the opponent's deployment zone.
Razorwings come back in. Venoms try to get the heck out of dodge.
Shooting takes down my bargelord.
His venoms then move flat-out to surround my bargelord so that he can't get back up....
....and he doesn't.
That is all he is able to kill with his shooting.
Necrons 4
Spoiler:
2 night scythes come in (one from Ongoing Reserves). I drop off the unit of ObSec troops behind the BLOS terrain.
The other night scythe and both bargelords go after the venoms.
Night scythe shoots down the Warlord's venom transport.
My bargelords then make the charge.....
....reducing both venoms into wrecks.
Frankie gets 1-VP (finally) for killing a unit (bargelord). I get both of my VP's (killing a venom and bargelord in Frankie's deployment zone).
Maelstrom VP's - Dark Eldar: 1, Necrons: 6
Dark Eldar 5
Spoiler:
Maelstrom Objectives:
At this point, Frankie concedes the Secondary Maelstrom mission so we don't even bother rolling for it.
His flyers go after my flyers....
....but instead of going after my flyers, Frankie actually goes after my ObSec troops. He takes them out.
Well, not entirely. The haywire cryptek gets back up.
Necrons 5
Spoiler:
I drop off another unit of troops onto the objective.
Bargelords go after the units who are moving towards the Relic.
I wipe out the venom along with the unit inside.
With that, we call it at the end of the turn. I win the Secondary and I've pretty much got a lock on the Primary as well. I also get all 3 bonus points for a 10-0 Necron victory.
Total Domination by the Metallic Dead - Necrons!!!
I knew exactly how this match would turn out (barring any extreme dice). I've actually played against Frankie's 7E DE before with my AV13 Necrons and the results were quite similar. Secretly, I was actually rooting for Frankie to finally beat me. Alas, the moment I went up against him, my dice just changed. Oh well, that's a dice game for you.
coblen wrote: Wow failing that many 2+ re rolling saves is unbelievable bad luck. I don't know if assaulting the chapter master was a good idea though. I'd wager him beating a barge lord most of the time.
I don't think a % based system is a good idea. Firstly it can be pretty confusing, and secondly forcing armies to take more points in troops punishes everybody but eldar. It's not like eldar need a buff.
I'm not sure why tournaments are limiting it to 2 detachments though. Is there some broken build that this stops. I think it really discourages small formations like the tyranid spore mine formation. If you take the spore mine formation then you are limited to two hive tyrants.
To illustrate a little more about why a detachment cap is necessary, here is a list I build quickly without a cap. Its unbalanced, but will definitely make the game not very fun for the average tournament attendee. The total so far is 1759, so at the 1850 standard you've got about 90 points to add in some extra buffers.
Leviathan Detachment #1
3x Flyrant
3x Muclid
CAD #1
2x Flyrant
2x Muclid
Adeptus Astartes Storm Wing
1x Stormraven
2x Storm Talon
Inquisition Detachment
Ordo Xenos Inquisitor, 3x Servo Skulls
coblen wrote: Wow failing that many 2+ re rolling saves is unbelievable bad luck. I don't know if assaulting the chapter master was a good idea though. I'd wager him beating a barge lord most of the time.
I don't think a % based system is a good idea. Firstly it can be pretty confusing, and secondly forcing armies to take more points in troops punishes everybody but eldar. It's not like eldar need a buff.
I'm not sure why tournaments are limiting it to 2 detachments though. Is there some broken build that this stops. I think it really discourages small formations like the tyranid spore mine formation. If you take the spore mine formation then you are limited to two hive tyrants.
I was actually planning on charging his HQ's unit with 2 bargelords. But despite the re-roll on the charge, one of them just failed. It would have been a good trade-off for potentially 2-VP's as well as his Warlord had I made the charge. The difference was that his Warlord was making his 3++ (or maybe it was 4++ ) in cc whereas my Overlord wasn't making his 3++ (btw, his Chapter Master could not hurt my barge). And then my other bargelord failed 3 out of 6 2+ saves. It was just bad luck, but statistically, I should have held up his unit with 1 bargelord and most likely beat them with 2.
With regards to limiting detachment, that restricts the power combos out there. If there were no limits, there can be some truly nasty combos. Take my Pentyrant list and throw in that Spore Mine formation and you will have a truly scary list. Oh, and throw in an Inquisitor with servo-skulls in there while you are at it.
Ah I thought he had a thunder hammer not a medusa axe(I'm assuming thats some kind of power axe). One 6 with the thunder hammer and suddenly that attack bikes can attack armor 11 with their grenades and it all starts coming down. It's not a super high chance, but I'd still wager him with a thunder hammer beating the bargelord most of the time.
I suppose every army would take inquisitors with servo skulls wouldn't they. That probably says something more about the inquisitor than anything. What would you take out to add spore mines to your penta tyrant list. The lictors or the mawlock? The mawlock is really neccessary for dealing with centurians, so I'm guessing lictors. I dont know if the spore mines are gonna do you that much better, and it deffinitly feels like a trade off.
I'm against going full on unbound, but none of the greater then 2 detatchment armies that I have seen proposed seem any more crazy then the tournament legal lists I see. I like it as a change becuase I dont think it helps eldar, but does help armies like orks, tyranid, and dark eldar. I'm no pro though so I may be wrong. I just wish I could see these power combo's go toe to toe with the current super lists to actually see how powerfull they really are.
To illustrate a little more about why a detachment cap is necessary, here is a list I build quickly without a cap. Its unbalanced, but will definitely make the game not very fun for the average tournament attendee. The total so far is 1759, so at the 1850 standard you've got about 90 points to add in some extra buffers.
Leviathan Detachment #1
3x Flyrant
3x Muclid
CAD #1
2x Flyrant
2x Muclid
Adeptus Astartes Storm Wing
1x Stormraven
2x Storm Talon
Inquisition Detachment
Ordo Xenos Inquisitor, 3x Servo Skulls
I can top that. See my list below.
coblen wrote: Ah I thought he had a thunder hammer not a medusa axe(I'm assuming thats some kind of power axe). One 6 with the thunder hammer and suddenly that attack bikes can attack armor 11 with their grenades and it all starts coming down. It's not a super high chance, but I'd still wager him with a thunder hammer beating the bargelord most of the time.
I suppose every army would take inquisitors with servo skulls wouldn't they. That probably says something more about the inquisitor than anything. What would you take out to add spore mines to your penta tyrant list. The lictors or the mawlock? The mawlock is really neccessary for dealing with centurians, so I'm guessing lictors. I dont know if the spore mines are gonna do you that much better, and it deffinitly feels like a trade off.
I'm against going full on unbound, but none of the greater then 2 detatchment armies that I have seen proposed seem any more crazy then the tournament legal lists I see. I like it as a change becuase I dont think it helps eldar, but does help armies like orks, tyranid, and dark eldar. I'm no pro though so I may be wrong. I just wish I could see these power combo's go toe to toe with the current super lists to actually see how powerfull they really are.
Actually, without a limit to detachments (and assuming 0-1 for each detachment), I wouldn't even call it Pentyrant list anymore. And honestly, I probably won't be running the running the Sporefield formation. Instead I would run something like this:
Wall of Martyrs Imperial Defence Emplacement w/1 extra Barricade
Tyranid Allies:
Dakka Flyrant - Egrubs
Mucolid
Eldar Allies:
Farseer - Jetbike, Mantle of the Laughing God, Spirit Stones of Anath'lan
3x Windrider Jetbikes
This abomination of a list may be weak in Maelstrom objectives, at least initially, but it will get stronger later in the game. Flyrants will control/limit the movement of the enemy. With 15 Warp Dice base, Mantleseer will zip around and reliably summon daemons wherever they are needed. It gets stronger and stronger in Maelstrom objectives over time, that is, if it even matters (or should I say, if the opponent doesn't get tabled by the flyrants).
Without limits, abomination lists like these would become reality. There are more - much, much more - but this is just 1 example off the top of my head about a list that I could realistically run in such a case.
Well call me crazy but I think the penta tyrant list looked scarier then the sex tyrant list. You gave up the mawlocks ability to hurt invisible death stars for more flying dakka. Really narrowing the focus. Opening up new weaknesses to accentuate a strength you already had an abundance of.
The problem I have with limiting 2 detachments is that it severely discourages some of the smaller formations. On the flip side though it seems that having no limit makes a lot of small detachments feel mandatory. The inquisitor becomes mandatory in everything imperial, and would probably just be thrown into tons of xenos lists as well. Similar things would happen with other formations. While I'm not convinced about the effects on balance I do think there would be negative effects on diversity.
Also suddenly your gonna see armies like bullyboyz formation+ dark artisan formation+ firebase cadre formation+ inquisitor+ summoning farseer. In this case all the different codex's lose their identity.
Gah, I need to get my army painted! Embarrassing to play with only primed models, but I have just been swamped.
Thanks for posting the report, Jim! Congratz to AbusePuppy, he beat me solidly in our game and stopped me from taking that tournament! Very fun, had a blast.
Reecius wrote: Gah, I need to get my army painted! Embarrassing to play with only primed models, but I have just been swamped.
Thanks for posting the report, Jim! Congratz to AbusePuppy, he beat me solidly in our game and stopped me from taking that tournament! Very fun, had a blast.
If it's because you've been painting others, I'll be hopefully sending more that way next month.
coblen wrote: Wow failing that many 2+ re rolling saves is unbelievable bad luck. I don't know if assaulting the chapter master was a good idea though. I'd wager him beating a barge lord most of the time.
I don't think a % based system is a good idea. Firstly it can be pretty confusing, and secondly forcing armies to take more points in troops punishes everybody but eldar. It's not like eldar need a buff.
I'm not sure why tournaments are limiting it to 2 detachments though. Is there some broken build that this stops. I think it really discourages small formations like the tyranid spore mine formation. If you take the spore mine formation then you are limited to two hive tyrants.
To illustrate a little more about why a detachment cap is necessary, here is a list I build quickly without a cap. Its unbalanced, but will definitely make the game not very fun for the average tournament attendee. The total so far is 1759, so at the 1850 standard you've got about 90 points to add in some extra buffers.
Leviathan Detachment #1
3x Flyrant
3x Muclid
CAD #1
2x Flyrant
2x Muclid
Adeptus Astartes Storm Wing
1x Stormraven
2x Storm Talon
Inquisition Detachment
Ordo Xenos Inquisitor, 3x Servo Skulls
A detachment cap is not necessary. Keep unlimited detachments, but put a hard lock on factions instead. One faction per player. This takes the teeth out of the mythical cheese beast and makes this list invalid.
A detachment cap is not necessary. Keep unlimited detachments, but put a hard lock on factions instead. One faction per player. This takes the teeth out of the mythical cheese beast and makes this list invalid.
A faction cap doesn't help either. Some factions are too small to stand on their own (Knights, Inquistion, Legion of the Damned) and some have so many formations or options that unlimited detachments just make for crazy combinations. At 1750 and unlimited detachments, you could run the following:
CAD 1
Flyrant
Flyrant
Muclid
Muclid
CAD 2
Flyrant
Flyrant
Muclid
Muclid
Formation: Manufactorum Genestealers
Formation: Manufactorum Genestealers
This gives you 4 flyrants and 50 (yes, you read that right) genestealers who get Hit & Run for free and gain the ability to infiltrate within 6 inches of enemy troops so long as they can appear in a ruin. That's a ton of bodies and its almost the ultimate in MSU since its a total of 10 stealer squads. Almost any pure faction army would have a hard time countering this, regardless of how many detachments you give them. A detachment cap is still a necessary thing, especially as more formations come out.
Looking forward to this match. Corpsethief has 'Crons number imo- their bread and butter strength 7 AP 4 just isn't going to do much against T7 3+ 5++. This match'll fall on Jim's ability to contain them/work around them I think.
A detachment cap is not necessary. Keep unlimited detachments, but put a hard lock on factions instead. One faction per player. This takes the teeth out of the mythical cheese beast and makes this list invalid.
A faction cap doesn't help either. Some factions are too small to stand on their own (Knights, Inquistion, Legion of the Damned) and some have so many formations or options that unlimited detachments just make for crazy combinations. At 1750 and unlimited detachments, you could run the following:
CAD 1
Flyrant
Flyrant
Muclid
Muclid
CAD 2
Flyrant
Flyrant
Muclid
Muclid
Formation: Manufactorum Genestealers
Formation: Manufactorum Genestealers
This gives you 4 flyrants and 50 (yes, you read that right) genestealers who get Hit & Run for free and gain the ability to infiltrate within 6 inches of enemy troops so long as they can appear in a ruin. That's a ton of bodies and its almost the ultimate in MSU since its a total of 10 stealer squads. Almost any pure faction army would have a hard time countering this, regardless of how many detachments you give them. A detachment cap is still a necessary thing, especially as more formations come out.
Are any/all of the Legion of the Damned or Inquisition or Imperial Knights the same faction as marines or Guard? If so one could have a detachment of Knights, let's say, with marines and still be of the same faction. One faction keeps Eldar from summoning Daemons using Tyranid Warp Charges. It keeps Servo skulls out of everyones list, etc...
For instance the list you posted above is much easier to deal with then the previous one you posted where servo skulls are keep infiltraters/scouts away from the Hive Tyrants on turn 1 to mitigate the alpha strike on them.
One faction helps all lists because it reduces the craziness that has to be prepared for,
Knights, space marines,inquisition, Astra militarium are all separate factions. They are all members of the imperium for ally conditions but each is a separate faction for detachment conditions.
Are any/all of the Legion of the Damned or Inquisition or Imperial Knights the same faction as marines or Guard? If so one could have a detachment of Knights, let's say, with marines and still be of the same faction. One faction keeps Eldar from summoning Daemons using Tyranid Warp Charges. It keeps Servo skulls out of everyones list, etc...
For instance the list you posted above is much easier to deal with then the previous one you posted where servo skulls are keep infiltraters/scouts away from the Hive Tyrants on turn 1 to mitigate the alpha strike on them.
One faction helps all lists because it reduces the craziness that has to be prepared for,
Like coblen said, all the Imperial mini-dexes are their own factions. So Imperial Assassins is both a faction and a detachment. Same with knights. Now if you house ruled that all Imperials were one faction, you could set something up that way. But you'd essentially get huge Imperial army buff as now no one can ally except Imperial armies.
Reecius wrote: Gah, I need to get my army painted! Embarrassing to play with only primed models, but I have just been swamped.
Thanks for posting the report, Jim! Congratz to AbusePuppy, he beat me solidly in our game and stopped me from taking that tournament! Very fun, had a blast.
If it's because you've been painting others, I'll be hopefully sending more that way next month.
Fair play, lol. And we look forward to the new business!
coblen wrote: Well call me crazy but I think the penta tyrant list looked scarier then the sex tyrant list. You gave up the mawlocks ability to hurt invisible death stars for more flying dakka. Really narrowing the focus. Opening up new weaknesses to accentuate a strength you already had an abundance of.
The problem I have with limiting 2 detachments is that it severely discourages some of the smaller formations. On the flip side though it seems that having no limit makes a lot of small detachments feel mandatory. The inquisitor becomes mandatory in everything imperial, and would probably just be thrown into tons of xenos lists as well. Similar things would happen with other formations. While I'm not convinced about the effects on balance I do think there would be negative effects on diversity.
Also suddenly your gonna see armies like bullyboyz formation+ dark artisan formation+ firebase cadre formation+ inquisitor+ summoning farseer. In this case all the different codex's lose their identity.
Each build has its strengths and weaknesses. 6 flyrants isn't necessarily better than 5, but I think that it could be, especially when you throw in some summoning to offset its lack of a ground force.
While my Pentyrant list might be slightly more balanced due to its larger ground force, I actually think the Sextyrant list is better overall in this case. That is because it's got better "long-term sustainability". It's got better offense with more devourer shots as well as better offensive resiliency due to more flyrants. And while its ground game is weak, it gets better over time due to daemon summoning. With my Pentyrant list, the ground forces diminish over time as the more experienced general will go after the ground targets. But with the Sextyrant list, the ground forces actually increase over time thanks to the Summoning. So as an opponent, you're not actually facing a 1850 5-flyrant list. It's more like you're facing a 2250 6-flyrant list by the end of the game.
Great point on the identity of the races. One of the characteristics of any race is that it's got its strengths and it's got its weaknesses. For example, Tau has good shooting at the expense of assault. Well, with allies, you can address many of those weaknesses. But at least with a limit in the number of detachments, there are still weaknesses in the build that cannot all be addressed. Take out those limits and now you've got some armies with truly almost no weaknesses. IMO, that is not how the game should be. No army should be near unbeatable without any weaknesses to exploit. Also, when you take away the limits in detachments, a lot of the armies are going to start looking similar as well (as with your example).
Reecius wrote: Gah, I need to get my army painted! Embarrassing to play with only primed models, but I have just been swamped.
Thanks for posting the report, Jim! Congratz to AbusePuppy, he beat me solidly in our game and stopped me from taking that tournament! Very fun, had a blast.
Slacker!
Congrats on your performance as well. You did very well with such a oddball list.
Verviedi wrote: Wow...
A meta... Fully painted armies... Good terrain... Mecca!!
WHY CAN'T I PLAY GAMES THERE???!
*Weeps to self*
One of these days, you've got to come to Vegas, whether for the gaming or not.
djones520 wrote: Yeah, with him doing so little damage in the first two turns, there was no other way that was going.
He did do some damage. He dropped one of my lords! It's just that my lord got back up.
Not much you can do in that situation other than to just take it. Man, if only my 1st 2 games where a little more like this game.
Not a surprising outcome at all. Frankies list really did not have enough anti-vehicle to take on your army. Ravengers just don't pack the punch like they used to. 7th cut their chance of explosion by half, and the new codex made them more expensive and less mobile. It's unfortunate becuase I love the model, but for dedicated anti-tank its probably better to look elsewhere. He could have put heat lances on the talos for penies, and it would have really increased his odds.
But yeah, most of my lists are weird, I like it that way.
@coblen
Frankie actually just swept an RTT with that list, went 3-0 and won best general. I think what killed him at TSHFT was the lack of terrain as much as anything else.
But yeah, most of my lists are weird, I like it that way.
@coblen
Frankie actually just swept an RTT with that list, went 3-0 and won best general. I think what killed him at TSHFT was the lack of terrain as much as anything else.
Terrain did seem sparse in that one. Not a lot for his guys to hide behind.
As a daemons player, Flayed Ones make me want to weep. Here's hoping Daemons can retain some of their respectability it assault. Not holding my breath though. Even BA put a serious dent in our assault dominance.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Maybe hounds will be T5 and similarly costed on their next go around??
astro_nomicon wrote: As a daemons player, Flayed Ones make me want to weep. Here's hoping Daemons can retain some of their respectability it assault. Not holding my breath though. Even BA put a serious dent in our assault dominance.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Maybe hounds will be T5 and similarly costed on their next go around??
(not likely)
Honestly, I still don't see flayed ones being a very common Necron unit. While they have gotten better offensively, they still have the same existing weaknesses that they had before. You will see an increase in their usage. However, I don't believe you will most lists running them.
The army is more than just the wraiths. The problem that I am encountering is to make a balanced enough Necron army to complement the wraiths. That is the main challenge for me currently.
astro_nomicon wrote: As a daemons player, Flayed Ones make me want to weep. Here's hoping Daemons can retain some of their respectability it assault. Not holding my breath though. Even BA put a serious dent in our assault dominance.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Maybe hounds will be T5 and similarly costed on their next go around??
(not likely)
Honestly, I still don't see flayed ones being a very common Necron unit. While they have gotten better offensively, they still have the same existing weaknesses that they had before. You will see an increase in their usage. However, I don't believe you will most lists running them.
The army is more than just the wraiths. The problem that I am encountering is to make a balanced enough Necron army to complement the wraiths. That is the main challenge for me currently.
As you are a guru of board control, I can't see why you are not a fan of FO's.
As you are a guru of board control, I can't see why you are not a fan of FO's.
Mainly because of their speed, or rather, lack of. While infiltrate helps, they are otherwise slow as gak. The BC units I usually advocate are very fast units. At the very minimum, I want Fleet in my units (if not a 12" standard movement).
Also, in competitive play, there are some units that they just won't do very well against. They cannot hurt wraithknights, which are very common in the competitive meta, nor can they do anything to Imperial Knights (or any non-AV10 walkers).
Moreover, another competitive unit - the Tau Fireblade Cadre - will just tear them to shreds, and that's not including all the other shooting in the Tau army.
FO's are a good unit, but they are not an all-star unit that belongs in every Necron list (like wraiths).
Though I admit that I am slightly intrigued about the possibility of running 60 FO's backed up by 18 wraiths and 2 Destroyer Lords. That is a really unbalanced army that also looks fun as heck to play.
djones520 wrote: Yeah, with him doing so little damage in the first two turns, there was no other way that was going.
DE player literally spends four turns killing the same unit over and over again...one unit tanking an entire army for pretty much the entire game. I wonder how the game was going to turn out?
Aesthetically, I really liked Todd's orks. Lots of cool conversions and I've always liked an army full of meganobs. At the same time tough, I kind of dreaded playing against such an army as well. Lol.
Warboss - Mega-armor, Lucky Stikk (Warlord)
Mad Dok Grotsnik
1. Hold Either Objective 1.
2. Hold Either Objective 2.
3. Hold Either Objective 3.
4. Destroy an enemy unit.
5. Destroy an enemy unit.
6. Destroy an enemy unit.
Tertiary Objectives: First Blood, Linebreaker, Slay the Warlord, 1-pt each
Wow, this has the potential to be a really bad matchup for me because 1) Todd got Master of Ambush for his Warlord Trait and 2) he is going 1st. What is so scary about nobs is that they can easily wreck my bargelords or any of my barges for that matter. MSS may stop 1 ork from attacking. My Overlord might even kill another ork in combat (would most likely be the one that got mindshackled anyways), but the rest of his meganobz should be able to do bad things to my lords in combat. Now if I went 1st, I might be able to take out some of the transports and force him to footslog several of his units. That would have definitely given me a breather. However, he is going 1st and with infiltrating meganobs, I won't be able to avoid a Turn 2 assault by them. I was actually somewhat concerned going into this matchup.
Fortunately for me, I do have 1 secret weapon - my Warlord with the Solar Thermasite. He is S8 with both his normal attacks and his Sweep Attacks, meaning that he will be insta-killing a lot of meganobs. I am going to have to really lean on my Warlord this game and I am hoping that he will shine.
. On an Overlord with 2+/3++/4+ jink, that's pretty damned good.
I never worked with relics before - just noticed you could only have one per army. Still pretty darn good. What do you think about the Edge of Eternity? It says it has a precision strike on a 2+? Does that mean the 
But I do know that they can re-roll their charge distances.
