Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2015/01/19 23:21:54
Subject: 2015 TSHFT Open GT - The Last Hurrah for the Oldcrons
Nope. Tyranids, Daemons, Necrons....none of my armies ignore jink.
Well at least two of those have weight of fire and great mobility. Ignoring cover is so huge now... Seems like massed fire power and cover are the two biggest things mechanics in the game now.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/20 02:12:00
jy2 wrote: Let me tell you the chances of mechdar without any wraithknights beating my oldcrons. Their chances of winning are about 0% - nil.
Pfft, bring it, son. I play your Oldcrons any day and show you what time it is.
Not even the Firebase Cadre has what it takes to stop a bargelord, and I'm running three. I can tell you now that, short of dice issues like in this game, my oldcrons will roll over most Tau builds.
That's not actually really true- looking at the two units of Broadsides and assuming High-Yield Missiles, they put down an average 18 hits; presuming that you put those hits onto the Barge (and that you Jinked), that is just shy of 3 full HP removed from them alone. (If you put the hits on the Overlord, he has to roll 15 saves instead, meaning almost three full unsaved wounds, so either way it goes pretty badly.) Add in the Riptide and it'll usually down a Command Barge in one go, barring the Thermasite of course. (Thermasite is where I usually aim the Riptide at, since it has a pretty reasonable chance of putting a penetrating through and thus drastically decreasing his defenses.)
With Markerlights and/or a Support Commander to enhance them, a good Tau army should pretty easily drop two regular Command Barges in a single turn and likely has enough guns to bring down the Thermasite Barge next turn. It'll take a bunch of damage in the meantime, of course, but when it's bringing down 800pts of your army that's to be expected.
2015/01/20 15:40:55
Subject: Re:2015 TSHFT Open GT - The Last Hurrah for the Oldcrons
Of course there's always a chance that I may bring Tyranids just to try to beat iNcontrol Geoff for the Best Tyranid player spot.
Also would have to try and beat me for best Tyranid....
You are right. You would be the Tyranid player to beat....if you were on the West Coast. It's more of a local, friendly rivalry thing between Geoff and I in some of the West Coast tournaments. We (or rather, I) just don't play enough against the Midwest/East Coast players to actually "compete" against them. Then again, I am just starting to venture out more to some of the East Coast/Midwest tournaments.
Nope. Tyranids, Daemons, Necrons....none of my armies ignore jink.
Well at least two of those have weight of fire and great mobility. Ignoring cover is so huge now... Seems like massed fire power and cover are the two biggest things mechanics in the game now.
It is, which is why Eldar and Tau are perennial top-tier contenders. They have such a huge advantage over most armies with both massed firepower and the ability to ignore cover.
Not even the Firebase Cadre has what it takes to stop a bargelord, and I'm running three. I can tell you now that, short of dice issues like in this game, my oldcrons will roll over most Tau builds.
That's not actually really true- looking at the two units of Broadsides and assuming High-Yield Missiles, they put down an average 18 hits; presuming that you put those hits onto the Barge (and that you Jinked), that is just shy of 3 full HP removed from them alone. (If you put the hits on the Overlord, he has to roll 15 saves instead, meaning almost three full unsaved wounds, so either way it goes pretty badly.) Add in the Riptide and it'll usually down a Command Barge in one go, barring the Thermasite of course. (Thermasite is where I usually aim the Riptide at, since it has a pretty reasonable chance of putting a penetrating through and thus drastically decreasing his defenses.)
With Markerlights and/or a Support Commander to enhance them, a good Tau army should pretty easily drop two regular Command Barges in a single turn and likely has enough guns to bring down the Thermasite Barge next turn. It'll take a bunch of damage in the meantime, of course, but when it's bringing down 800pts of your army that's to be expected.
Doesn't matter how many times you take them out, my bargelords JUST GET BACK UP! Hahaha. That's the frustrating part about them. It takes almost the entire firepower of your army just to take down 1 (or if you have massed S10 shooting, maybe 2) but then your eyes will roll when they just pick themselves back up. That's the real secret of the crons....there's a 50% chance for their 300-pt unit to just get back up and now you've got to re-allocate a prodigious amount of resources just to put them down again.
However, all that just may become moot in about a week, as their is a chance that bargelords won't be back for the newcrons.
Of course there's always a chance that I may bring Tyranids just to try to beat iNcontrol Geoff for the Best Tyranid player spot.
Also would have to try and beat me for best Tyranid....
You are right. You would be the Tyranid player to beat....if you were on the West Coast. It's more of a local, friendly rivalry thing between Geoff and I in some of the West Coast tournaments. We (or rather, I) just don't play enough against the Midwest/East Coast players to actually "compete" against them. Then again, I am just starting to venture out more to some of the East Coast/Midwest tournaments.
Perhaps our paths will cross one of these days.
Oh well I was jumping in on the discussion between you and Nick which seemed centered around LVO.... which I will be at.
2015/01/20 17:14:58
Subject: Re:2015 TSHFT Open GT - The Last Hurrah for the Oldcrons
I hope you made him an offer on his model after the tourney so you could go office space it in some lonely field?
Sometimes the models you fear/hate most just hex your dice, no idea why
He is the bane of my Necron existence, which is why I won't take him in my Tyranid list. (Haha....also to differentiate my Tyranids from Geoff's Tyranids.)
Oh well I was jumping in on the discussion between you and Nick which seemed centered around LVO.... which I will be at.
Haha. There's just soooo many players I would love to play against. There's you, Nick Nanavati, Alex Fennel, my East Coast rival (and ex-roommate, who's beaten me twice already!) Mr Eric Hoerger, PanzerLeader, just so many people....
I hope I get to play against you after I beat Nick. After you, I hope I get the other Nick....
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/01/20 17:17:31
Haha sounds like you will be busy. So we can silently compete to see whose tyranids finish highest.
It will be interesting and hopefully I get to play a bunch of people Ive not met before. Trouble with a lot of us east coast players traveling is we end up playing each other again and again. I think ive played Nanavanti 7+ times at GT's and Ill likely play him at least one or two more times before LVO. And Alex and I used to do a lot of prep together though we've both been busy with real life lately.
But yeah the only player Ive had the chance to play that I know is from the west coast is Geoff... so Ill be excited to meet new players at LVO.
2015/01/21 01:51:12
Subject: 2015 TSHFT Open GT - The Last Hurrah for the Oldcrons
I ran the Ghazghkull's Bullyboyz as an ally after seeing them in action at Nova last year. As long as the trucks don't get shot out from under them they will mess you up. I played one game against someone running Eldar with the adamantine lance. By turn two the meganobs had killed off all three knights. Of course the ensuing explosions killed off all but one units of meganobs...and I lost some from general combat.
2015/01/22 05:35:54
Subject: Re:2015 TSHFT Open GT - The Last Hurrah for the Oldcrons
1. Hold Objective 1.
2. Hold Objective 2.
3. Hold Objective 3.
4. Have more scoring units at least partially within No-Man's-Land than your opponent.
5. Have a scoring unit at least partially within 12" of the opponent's deployment zone.
6. Have at least 3 of your and no enemy scoring units within 12" of your own deployment edge.
Tertiary Objectives: First Blood, Linebreaker, Slay the Warlord, 1-pt each
Oliver actually played against my teammate, Grant Theft Auto, on Round #1. Oliver ended up conceding on Turn 1 after the Lynx hit both Sicarians with its Destroyer blast and then rolled a 6 to take them both out. Looking at my opponent's army, I am not too concerned. Sure, I've got a lot more kill points in my army than his. However, I don't think his army can take on 3 bargelords. They should be able to tear up his armor like tissue paper. I just need to avoid his Imperial Knight and let my haywire crypteks deal with him. Barring the same type of dice I had on Game #1, I think that this should be a relatively easy win for me. I just need to make sure that my bargelords don't get charged by his Imperial Knight and I should be good.
1. Hold Objective 1.
5. Have a scoring unit at least partially within 12" of the opponent's deployment zone.
Necrons:
3. Hold Objective 3.
6. Have at least 3 of your and no enemy scoring units within 12" of your own deployment edge.
Oliver moves his Imperial Knight to within 12" of my deployment edge.
The rest of his army moves.
Shooting could not have gone better for my opponent. As a matter of fact, his shooting was red-hot.
His IK puts 1W on my bargelord and takes out my annihilation barge (AB) for First Blood.
VP's - Necrons: 0, Space Marines: 1
For the life of me, I just could not make a 4+ jink cover save!
Space Marine shooting pens another 2 barges, immobilizing 1 and stunning another!
Wow! 2 barges out of action already. Not looking like a great start.
Necrons 1
Spoiler:
Smelling blood, my bargelords go after his HQ + attack bikes.
My Warlord moves flat-out into the heart of Oliver's army.
With only 1 barge shooting, I don't believe that I do any damage.
Only 1 bargelord makes the charge.
Despite his HQ getting mindshackled, I only manage to do 1W to the unit.
I get 1 Maelstrom VP for holding Objective #3 (my warriors). Oliver gets 1 VP as well for having a unit within 12" of my deployment edge (his IK).
Maelstrom VP's - Necrons: 1, Space Marines: 1
Space Marines 2
Spoiler:
Maelstrom Objectives:
Space Marines:
3. Hold Objective 3.
6. Have at least 3 of your and no enemy scoring units within 12" of your own deployment edge.
Necrons:
1. Hold Objective 1.
4. Have more scoring units at least partially within No-Man's-Land than your opponent.
IK goes after my bargelord. Because he is planning to charge and because my lord is locked in combat, there is not shooting by the IK. It would later fail its charge as well.
Tanks spread out.
Shooting puts 2W on my Warlord, despite the re-rollable 2+ saves!
Worse yet, a Sicarian shoots at one of my bargelords. I opt to put the shots on the lord....and fail 3 out of 6 2+ saves!
He doesn't get back up!!!
VP's - Necrons: 0, Space Marines: 2
To make matters worse, his Lord passes his Mindshackle tests and they kill off my bargelord in assault. He doesn't get back up either!!!
VP's - Necrons: 0, Space Marines: 3
When it rains, it pours. This game is turning out to be a disaster for my crons!
Necrons 2
Spoiler:
My 2 scythes with my haywire crypteks come in. They go after 2 different facings of the IK.
My Warlord sweeps the bottom Sicarian and immobilizes it.
Shooting by my 2 AB's kill off 2 attack bikes.
Warriors and night scythes manage to take out his IK.
VP's - Necrons: 1, Space Marines: 3
However, Oliver makes a mistake here. My warriors are in the outer-ring of the explosion. Oliver then tells me that they take AP3 hits (it should have only been AP5 hits). Thus, the explosion kills 2 warriors from each unit.
They both then fail morale and fall back. One falls off the table. The other unit would actually fail to regroup and fall off the table next turn.
Wow!!! 3 failed LD10 morale tests in a row!!!
VP's - Necrons: 1, Space Marines: 5
Finally, my Warlord assaults and wrecks a Sicarian.
VP's - Necrons: 2, Space Marines: 5
Oliver doesn't get a Maelstrom objective this turn. I get 1-VP for having more units in No-Man's-Land than my opponent.
Maelstrom VP's - Necrons: 2, Space Marines: 1
Space Marines 3
Spoiler:
Maelstrom Objectives:
Space Marines:
2. Hold Objective 2.
5. Have a scoring unit at least partially within 12" of the opponent's deployment zone.
Necrons:
3. Hold Objective 3.
4. Have more scoring units at least partially within No-Man's-Land than your opponent.
His HQ breaks off from the bikers and go after my Warlord.
Master of the Forge (MotF) disembarks from the Achilles to go repair the Sicarian.
Shooting kills one of my barges, who still continue to fail its cover saves.
VP's - Necrons: 2, Space Marines: 6
Biker captain then charges my Warlord....
Again, my passes his Mindshackle tests and proceed to finish off my Overlord.
And again....for the 3rd straight time this game (and 6 out of the last 7 attempts since Game #1), my bargelord would fail to get back up.
Oliver gets Slay the Warlord.
VP's - Necrons: 2, Space Marines: 7
Necrons 3
Spoiler:
The rest of my flyers come in.
Necron movement.
Night scythes take out the Sicarian. They also take off another 1W from the Biker captain.
VP's - Necrons: 3, Space Marines: 7
AB takes out the last attack bike.
VP's - Necrons: 4, Space Marines: 7
I get both of my Maelstrom objectives this turn (warriors on Objective #3 and more units in No-Man's-Land than my opponent). Oliver gets none.
Maelstrom VP's - Necrons: 4, Space Marines: 1
Space Marines 4
Spoiler:
Maelstrom Objectives:
Space Marines:
1. Hold Objective 1.
4. Have more scoring units at least partially within No-Man's-Land than your opponent.
Necrons:
1. Hold Objective 1.
3. Hold Objective 3.
Thunderfire from the Achilles and the scouts take out my warriors.
VP's - Necrons: 4, Space Marines: 8
The Achilles also take out the immobilized AB.
VP's - Necrons: 4, Space Marines: 9
Necrons 4
Spoiler:
I grab both of my Maelstrom objectives this turn.
Maelstrom VP's - Necrons: 6, Space Marines: 1
At this point, we call it.
I'm way too far behind in Purge to come back, especially since most of my shooting is gone.
At the same time, Oliver is way too far behind in the secondary, the Maelstrom objectives, to catch up either.
He takes Primary + First Blood + Warlord for 6-pts. I take Secondary for 3-pts.
All I can say is...HOLY SH*T! Wow, 2 devastating losses in a row and against my super-powerful Necrons! What can I say? Sh*t happens, especially in a dice again. Oh well, no need to analyze the game too deeply. It just wasn't meant to be. That's fine. Midway through the game, I've already changed my mentality from competitive mode to fun mode. Time to get the drinks in early and to just enjoy myself.
Coming up next, my Oldcrons vs my teammate, Frankie's awesomely-painted Dark Eldar with 5 Talos! BTW, he is 1-1 and lost to a really good player, Jeremy Veysseire, in a very close matchup. Because of a mix-up, I got paired upwards but that is fine. The way my dice is going, maybe today will be the day that Frankie finally wins one over me.
This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2015/01/24 22:33:21
Oliver actually played against my teammate, Grant Theft Auto, on Round #1. Oliver ended up conceding on Turn 1 after the Lynx hit both Sicarians with its Destroyer blast and then rolled a 6 to take them both out.
Probably the same he would have felt had a drop pod landed near by and popped both tanks with melta guns, and for less resource cost from his opponent...
2015/01/22 18:07:07
Subject: 2015 TSHFT Open GT - The Last Hurrah for the Oldcrons (Game #1 completed p.2)
Oliver actually played against my teammate, Grant Theft Auto, on Round #1. Oliver ended up conceding on Turn 1 after the Lynx hit both Sicarians with its Destroyer blast and then rolled a 6 to take them both out.
Must have been one heck of an awesome feeling.
Ha ha I know right? He hopefully conceded knowing the inevitable clubbing and wanting to watch some other closer games rather then being bitter.
So what are the rules these days for dealing with a parking lot on top of a landing pad? I've had games where the other guy said if you couldn't fit your model on the pad you couldn't assault anything.
2015/01/22 19:25:31
Subject: 2015 TSHFT Open GT - The Last Hurrah for the Oldcrons (Game #1 completed p.2)
necron99 wrote: So what are the rules these days for dealing with a parking lot on top of a landing pad? I've had games where the other guy said if you couldn't fit your model on the pad you couldn't assault anything.
Wouldn't the rules for multi level structures come into play? Height wise you can fight 6 inches up if you are not in btb.
2015/01/22 20:34:09
Subject: Re:2015 TSHFT Open GT - The Last Hurrah for the Oldcrons (Game #1 completed p.2)
necron99 wrote: So what are the rules these days for dealing with a parking lot on top of a landing pad? I've had games where the other guy said if you couldn't fit your model on the pad you couldn't assault anything.
Wouldn't the rules for multi level structures come into play? Height wise you can fight 6 inches up if you are not in btb.
You can only fight 6" up while engaged. To engage, base contact is required. CC and multi level terrain is broken in 7th without house ruling.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/22 20:34:18
Hahaha, well Jy2 when your rolling just happens to be full of "6's" for your first game there's nothing you can do.
Whatever as soon as all you take out the D then LOW type units like the barb and deathstars will start dominating the scene again
You guys are so quick to get rid of the lynx and the few experimental LOW D weapons that you don't realize that it has actually caused deathstars to slowly disappear
2015/01/23 00:39:11
Subject: 2015 TSHFT Open GT - The Last Hurrah for the Oldcrons (Game #1 completed p.2)
Reecius had to change the rules for that to occur plus it's obvious why you would defend it. Obviously it's potehtially very lop sided. I never heard of anyone quitting first turn of first round - sounds messed up.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/23 00:41:31
Dozer, did you read jy2's pentyrant vs Eldar/Marines?
The Eldar player brought a Scorpion (I think). Then conceded turn 1. Two games in a row (Ok, the second game went on to turn 2).
Now grantd, the only reason the Eldar player did not concede Game Turn 1, Player Turn 1, is because he went first. After jy2's first turn, the guy conceded. Second game...did not go much better.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/23 11:08:18
Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia
2015/01/23 16:02:06
Subject: 2015 TSHFT Open GT - The Last Hurrah for the Oldcrons (Game #1 completed p.2)
Happyjew wrote: Dozer, did you read jy2's pentyrant vs Eldar/Marines?
The Eldar player brought a Scorpion (I think). Then conceded turn 1. Two games in a row (Ok, the second game went on to turn 2).
Now grantd, the only reason the Eldar player did not concede Game Turn 1, Player Turn 1, is because he went first. After jy2's first turn, the guy conceded. Second game...did not go much better.
Two things to consider.
1. It was grant playing the 5 flyrants.
2. It was a friendly game, not a tournament.
I do see what your trying to say though. One doesn't need to look far off from D weapons to find cheesy crap that will force a similar result, but that doesn't mean you should start adding more problems. It makes me thing of "The Old Lady Who Swallowed a Fly."
Happyjew wrote: Dozer, did you read jy2's pentyrant vs Eldar/Marines?
The Eldar player brought a Scorpion (I think). Then conceded turn 1. Two games in a row (Ok, the second game went on to turn 2).
Now grantd, the only reason the Eldar player did not concede Game Turn 1, Player Turn 1, is because he went first. After jy2's first turn, the guy conceded. Second game...did not go much better.
Two things to consider.
1. It was grant playing the 5 flyrants.
2. It was a friendly game, not a tournament.
I do see what your trying to say though. One doesn't need to look far off from D weapons to find cheesy crap that will force a similar result, but that doesn't mean you should start adding more problems. It makes me thing of "The Old Lady Who Swallowed a Fly."
Actually it was Jy2 playing the Flyrants against Grant.
It was a Lynx (proxied with a Scorpion)
It was tournament practice, Grant didn't feel like he had many options at that point and opted to get another game in, could he have won? Maybe but the wind was out of his sails so to speak at that point and he was the one playing the 'broken' unit. Jy2 was just playing the 'broken' build
The game as it stands now for tournament play has almost devolved into the need to field deathstars, to counter some of the extreme builds, which then requires additional tools to counter those, which is sort of funny as it comes back around full circle at that point, extreme list=deathstar=D weapon=extreme list and on and on and on.
using the Tournament format as it is now, I think a better way to go (or the direction to go in) is to keep the detachment/formation as it is now but place a % restriction on any one type of organizational slot based on your forces points. It will trim out the deathstars a bit, put restrictions on some of the crazy LOW (note I don't consider the Lynx crazy good, I consider it good, but hardly broken), and bring the game to a closer semblance of balance (well to a degree at least, some armies will still fair better there is no getting around that).
Grant Theft Auto wrote: Hahaha, well Jy2 when your rolling just happens to be full of "6's" for your first game there's nothing you can do.
Whatever as soon as all you take out the D then LOW type units like the barb and deathstars will start dominating the scene again
You guys are so quick to get rid of the lynx and the few experimental LOW D weapons that you don't realize that it has actually caused deathstars to slowly disappear
But Grant, aren't you still running a seer council (IE Deathstar) in your list?
2015/01/24 01:55:55
Subject: 2015 TSHFT Open GT - The Last Hurrah for the Oldcrons (Game #1 completed p.2)
Happyjew wrote: Dozer, did you read jy2's pentyrant vs Eldar/Marines?
The Eldar player brought a Scorpion (I think). Then conceded turn 1. Two games in a row (Ok, the second game went on to turn 2).
Now grantd, the only reason the Eldar player did not concede Game Turn 1, Player Turn 1, is because he went first. After jy2's first turn, the guy conceded. Second game...did not go much better.
Two things to consider.
1. It was grant playing the 5 flyrants.
2. It was a friendly game, not a tournament.
I do see what your trying to say though. One doesn't need to look far off from D weapons to find cheesy crap that will force a similar result, but that doesn't mean you should start adding more problems. It makes me thing of "The Old Lady Who Swallowed a Fly."
Actually it was Jy2 playing the Flyrants against Grant.
It was a Lynx (proxied with a Scorpion)
It was tournament practice, Grant didn't feel like he had many options at that point and opted to get another game in, could he have won? Maybe but the wind was out of his sails so to speak at that point and he was the one playing the 'broken' unit. Jy2 was just playing the 'broken' build
The game as it stands now for tournament play has almost devolved into the need to field deathstars, to counter some of the extreme builds, which then requires additional tools to counter those, which is sort of funny as it comes back around full circle at that point, extreme list=deathstar=D weapon=extreme list and on and on and on.
using the Tournament format as it is now, I think a better way to go (or the direction to go in) is to keep the detachment/formation as it is now but place a % restriction on any one type of organizational slot based on your forces points. It will trim out the deathstars a bit, put restrictions on some of the crazy LOW (note I don't consider the Lynx crazy good, I consider it good, but hardly broken), and bring the game to a closer semblance of balance (well to a degree at least, some armies will still fair better there is no getting around that).
so you could still take your CAD +ally or formation or whatever but in total your values couldn't exceed the above.
EDIT: looking back at the 2nd codices they used:
up to 50% characters (HQ)
25%+ squads (troops)
up to 50% support (ELITE/FAST/HEAVY/LOW)
When I said he played 5 flyrants I meant he played AGAINST them. Sorry it wasn't written more clearly.
Percentage systems are clumsy and insane to keep track of which is why you don't see it often. Best solution is to return to an actual grand tournament experience of old and not the gladiator model everyone uses now. Players are held more accountable for showing up with a dick list. The event can always give 90% of the focus and prize support to the Ren man as well, causing a gradual shift in focus from attendees.
If the tournament is advertized and intended to be a no holds bard then I think the real issue is why anything is being restricted. If you want to find the nastiest list and winner for 40k in that area you need to actually play 40k not some TO's idea of what 40k should be. It's also fine to play a TO's version mind you, but i think the distinction should be pointed out.
Grant Theft Auto wrote: Hahaha, well Jy2 when your rolling just happens to be full of "6's" for your first game there's nothing you can do.
Whatever as soon as all you take out the D then LOW type units like the barb and deathstars will start dominating the scene again
You guys are so quick to get rid of the lynx and the few experimental LOW D weapons that you don't realize that it has actually caused deathstars to slowly disappear
But Grant, aren't you still running a seer council (IE Deathstar) in your list?
But he wants an answer to your deathstar so his can run wild
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/24 01:56:58
.....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids 
.....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
