My wife loves 40k, loves tyranids and (recently) daemons, loves painting, enjoys playing games within our gaming circle, and wants to be more involved in the "community" so to speak. She's into pen-palling and belongs to online groups for that, for example, and informal professional associations (Facebook groups for professional translators, etc), and she's in an online book club. She likes sharing tips, chatting with people with similar interests, and swapping stories. She'd like to find something for 40k like that, but all the forums, groups, and so on are...well, to put it charitably, not very welcoming and not well-supplied with the sort of kind, supportive people that she prefers to interact with online. Ideally, she'd like to find a community of fellow 40k-loving women, but she's looking for anything where the forum/community culture is generally friendly and helpful, and more devoted to fun and hobbying and less concerned with complaining about rules, angrily denouncing GW, arguing about fluff, and generally being mean to one another.

Is anyone a member of a smaller online community where everyone knows everyone else that they could recommend or to which I can direct her? A Facebook group or something like that? Is there a sub-forum on dakka that would be more to her tastes that she can spend her time in that won't see her tearfully resolving never to touch 40k again? She's been searching and so far all she's found are a couple of blogs. Any help or advice is appreciated. Cheers lads.

With a gender ratio like the one 40k fans has, a women-only gaming community is not going to exist.

I myself have never even tried anything else than blending into the 'standard' community.

Maybe the G+ 40k community?

I suggest the painting and modelling forums on here if she's into that. Only very rarely do you get any negativity up there, it's typically very constructive, polite and welcoming. Not saying the rest of Dakka isn't (for the most part, Dakka is a very decent forum for gaming in general), but you're never short of a good conversation or some helpful advice in the P&M boards.

 Ashiraya wrote:
With a gender ratio like the one 40k fans has, a women-only gaming community is not going to exist.

I myself have never even tried anything else than blending into the 'standard' community.

Even a facebook group with a couple of dozen members would be perfect for her. She doesn't really want to try to blend into the mainstream community, she's not too keen on contorting herself to fit in to something she's not suited to. I know she'd love to find something online that can help support her hobby habit, but she's not so desperate for it that she'll suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, so to speak, just to have someone to chat with about how awesome tyranids are and what colours to use so that not all the hormagaunts look the same.

There are a bunch of small, army-specific ones out there. Like the Dark City for DE, for example. Just google a 40k army name + forum, and I'm sure you'll find stuff.

The only problem with small, though, is that it's small. If you don't want to talk about just one army, or talk to just the same few people, or have to be a part of several forums that you aggregate together, then a small forum isn't really the way to go.

I agree with Paradigm. Dakka may have a lot of hateful bile, but it's not evenly spread out. The painting and modelling forum (both sides) and dakka fiction are nice places to be. 40k general isn't nearly as bad as 40k tactics, which is why there are people like me pushing the little yellow triangle to get those kinds of threads moved back to where they belong when they pop up here. Meanwhile, if she stays off of Off-Topic, that will reduce the malice to which she would be exposed by a great deal.

One of the things you could do as well is to sort of "set up" an account for her. She makes the account, and then you spend a few minutes going in and adding a bunch of people to her ignore list so she just doesn't see the worst posters in the first place.

Try Astronomican.com. Has like 30 active members, nice folks

office_waaagh wrote:
My wife loves 40k, loves tyranids and (recently) daemons, loves painting, enjoys playing games within our gaming circle, and wants to be more involved in the "community" so to speak. She's into pen-palling and belongs to online groups for that, for example, and informal professional associations (Facebook groups for professional translators, etc), and she's in an online book club. She likes sharing tips, chatting with people with similar interests, and swapping stories. She'd like to find something for 40k like that, but all the forums, groups, and so on are...well, to put it charitably, not very welcoming and not well-supplied with the sort of kind, supportive people that she prefers to interact with online. Ideally, she'd like to find a community of fellow 40k-loving women, but she's looking for anything where the forum/community culture is generally friendly and helpful, and more devoted to fun and hobbying and less concerned with complaining about rules, angrily denouncing GW, arguing about fluff, and generally being mean to one another.

Is anyone a member of a smaller online community where everyone knows everyone else that they could recommend or to which I can direct her? A Facebook group or something like that? Is there a sub-forum on dakka that would be more to her tastes that she can spend her time in that won't see her tearfully resolving never to touch 40k again? She's been searching and so far all she's found are a couple of blogs. Any help or advice is appreciated. Cheers lads.

I'd suggest staying offline altogether lol. There is only one site I've seen to fit the bill in terms of being friendly and welcoming to everyone and thats Bell of Lost Souls. Some of the facebook groups re also pretty good. The Overlords is pretty good there.

Is this site really that bad? I thought it was kind of nice here. Then again, I frequented reddit for two years so maybe I'm used to much worse.

The polite and considerate people are part of why I like this hobby so much, anyway. Miniwargaming.com has always seemed very nice.

There's Bolter and Chainsword, they're a goodly bunch for the most part and it's a heavily moderated community. Human and post-human armies only though.

There's the facebook group, "A Fansite for Games Workshop" run by Sami Lynn. Lots of nice people there, and a shocking number of us women!

Agreed, the Painting and Modeling forum would be best. General Discussion can be abrasive in certain threads.

The 40k - specific forums on this site seem to be a lot more confrontational/aggressive and offensive than the hobbyist forums on this site.

Even in our FLGS, it can be hard to keep it G+. The owners push for that ('family store!'), but some people just don't care, even when there are kids around. However, it never seems to get bad when talking about painting or modeling.

lustigjh wrote:
Is this site really that bad? I thought it was kind of nice here. Then again, I frequented reddit for two years so maybe I'm used to much worse.

The polite and considerate people are part of why I like this hobby so much, anyway. Miniwargaming.com has always seemed very nice.

Yeah! What @#%$ said we ain't $%^$ing polite here?

On reddit, r/warhammer seems quite positive. It's mostly for showing off/critiquing models and terrain, but there are other threads as well.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Yeah! What @#%$ said we ain't $%^$ing polite here?

Well, you yourself are frequently encouraging hate-storms.

It's not bullying, it's character building

Though the modelling section is a pretty happy place.As for other forums, i've personally never seen any that haven't had at least two jumped up users. 40k just doesn't lend itself to pure friendliness.

I'd hunt down the females here and see if you could make a facebook group of your/ their own.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Yeah! What @#%$ said we ain't $%^$ing polite here?

Well, you yourself are frequently encouraging hate-storms.

GW makes the storm, the rest of us just ride it.

 Colpicklejar wrote:
On reddit, r/warhammer seems quite positive. It's mostly for showing off/critiquing models and terrain, but there are other threads as well.

HA. Back when I tried posting there (granted, this was at least a year ago) I rudely got told to off by one of the mods because I posted an obvious question. When I told the mod he was being rude he said he didn't care, it was his sub and he'd do what he wanted. It was not a positive experience, even by reddit standards. Hopefully that's not the case anymore.

 EVIL INC wrote:

I'd suggest staying offline altogether lol. There is only one site I've seen to fit the bill in terms of being friendly and welcoming to everyone and thats Bell of Lost Souls. Some of the facebook groups re also pretty good. The Overlords is pretty good there.

Wow, you just recommended BoLS Trolls as a nice place?! I disagree. Dakkadakka certainly isn't the answer to the question either, but I like it that way.

I'd recommend the ICs forums. Kind people, more focus on narrative play, tends to be positive... #tuttletime

http://www.theindependentcharacters.com/forums/

lustigjh wrote:

 Colpicklejar wrote:
On reddit, r/warhammer seems quite positive. It's mostly for showing off/critiquing models and terrain, but there are other threads as well.

HA. Back when I tried posting there (granted, this was at least a year ago) I rudely got told to off by one of the mods because I posted an obvious question. When I told the mod he was being rude he said he didn't care, it was his sub and he'd do what he wanted. It was not a positive experience, even by reddit standards. Hopefully that's not the case anymore.

I've run into that guy before. He's a real tool. And he's still there.

On reddit its better to go to warhammer40k.

The mods are nice, there arent a huge amount of stupid rules and the people are nicer. In general just a better place.

no place on the internet is gonna be a perfectly safe harbor, that said it depends on what she's looking at. I'd definatly avoid tactics focused fourms etc. as generally those are gonna have tourny goers whom take the game seriously, and occasionally you get someone who doesn't understand that "well yeah that Khornite CSM army might not be the most efficant points spent but I enjoy screaming 'blood for the blood god' and seeing how many I can slog across the table!"

I think Dakka is a pretty wonderful place, most everyone is pretty decent. I will admit that 40k You Make Da Call and 40k tactics can be very contentious places, but everywhere else people are nice.

News & Rumors is different (in terms of 40k) as people tend to fracture into different groups about releases.

 Lobukia wrote:


Wow, you just recommended BoLS Trolls as a nice place?! I disagree. Dakkadakka certainly isn't the answer to the question either, but I like it that way.

I'd recommend the ICs forums. Kind people, more focus on narrative play, tends to be positive... #tuttletime

http://www.theindependentcharacters.com/forums/

+1

The Independent Characters forum has a different culture than Dakka. It's much more positive and the mods play a role in keeping it positive. But, positivity can also stifle legitimate debate. Everything is not well in 40K Land, and although it's not good to only dwell on that aspect, it's also pretty damn hard to ignore.

Dakka has a rough edge at times, but you also can get some honest, thoughtful feedback and discussion from a really diverse group of hobbyists.

40k has an on average rather agreeable fanbase of laid back and friendly people, but as with most niche interests it may have a tendency to attract a minority of.. equally niche people.

All online communities for 40k I've been in contact with have been of a very high standard, so I can't quite agree with your statement. Could be down to bad luck, or perhaps I just mentally filter disagreeable content :X

 the_Armyman wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:


Wow, you just recommended BoLS Trolls as a nice place?! I disagree. Dakkadakka certainly isn't the answer to the question either, but I like it that way.

I'd recommend the ICs forums. Kind people, more focus on narrative play, tends to be positive... #tuttletime

http://www.theindependentcharacters.com/forums/

+1

The Independent Characters forum has a different culture than Dakka. It's much more positive and the mods play a role in keeping it positive. But, positivity can also stifle legitimate debate. Everything is not well in 40K Land, and although it's not good to only dwell on that aspect, it's also pretty damn hard to ignore.

Dakka has a rough edge at times, but you also can get some honest, thoughtful feedback and discussion from a really diverse group of hobbyists.

A "rough edge" is putting it somewhat mildly. I don't consider myself an easily offended person: I've been a non-com in the infantry for my entire adult life. I'm used to the trash talk and so on, and dakka is pretty mild by the standards of the internet. But Sadie is different; she's sensitive, and she likes chatting and having fun and isn't so interested in debating how evil GW is and how bad the latest rules are or how broken some unit or other is. If she posted something like "I love my tyranids, the Alien vibe is awesome and the new models are amazing!" she'd get a bunch of replies along the lines of "Lol the maleceptor is terrible and you should never use it", "GW stole the Alien look because they're uncreative money-grubbing thieves", "ever since 6th dropped assault is dead and so are 'nids because GW can't write balanced rules", and so on, and she'd leave feeling completely deflated and sad when all she wanted was to come and chat about a thing she loves. On that basis, I have a really hard time recommending dakka to her. I don't want to set her up to get her feelings hurt.

Whether or not all is well in 40k land is a matter for debate. I don't see any problems, but I don't play in tournaments against taudar wave serpent spam or 2++ rerollable invisible daemon factories. The game is fun and the fluff is cool, and that's all I ask for. Now, people are going to disagree with me, and that's fine. But there's a tendency on dakka for certain people to ambush threads and denounce GW and 40k roundly, regardless of what the actual topic of discussion is, and spoil the atmosphere for people that really just want to talk about how much fun they're having. People get touchy, backs get up, and suddenly there's a wall of text three pages long about whether paying 5 points for a grot orderly makes you subhuman.

I kind of have a problem with the idea that we're a "diverse" group of hobbyists, to be honest. The fact that I know there are women out there (besides Sadie) that love 40k and won't come near a place like dakka for all the tea in China because of the hostility and negativity suggests otherwise. I'm not saying every forum has to be all-inclusive; people for whom 40k is srs bsns need a place to chat and vent their frustrations too. But it doesn't lead to a lot of diversity, and it drives other people away.

Thanks for all the great suggestions, everyone.

Cheers,
Jesse.

If you're looking for a safe place on the internet there just isn't one. Sadly, even for the pure painter/collector among us the internet has a very magical way of stripping all the magic out of everything it touches, wargames included.

office_waaagh wrote:

Whether or not all is well in 40k land is a matter for debate. I don't see any problems, but I don't play in tournaments against taudar wave serpent spam or 2++ rerollable invisible daemon factories. The game is fun and the fluff is cool, and that's all I ask for. Now, people are going to disagree with me, and that's fine. But there's a tendency on dakka for certain people to ambush threads and denounce GW and 40k roundly, regardless of what the actual topic of discussion is, and spoil the atmosphere for people that really just want to talk about how much fun they're having. People get touchy, backs get up, and suddenly there's a wall of text three pages long about whether paying 5 points for a grot orderly makes you subhuman.

I think it's important to understand that Dakka is also pretty well delineated. I stay away from some of the sub-forums because they don't have value to me. You Make Da Call and Army Lists aren't useful because my friends and I can figure out rules on our own and I really don't care what someone thinks of my list building skills. And the Off-Topic sub-forum is full of liberal, anti-capitalist, pot-smoking douchetards that think that government handouts and more legislation is a-okay! Hee hee!

I kind of have a problem with the idea that we're a "diverse" group of hobbyists, to be honest. The fact that I know there are women out there (besides Sadie) that love 40k and won't come near a place like dakka for all the tea in China because of the hostility and negativity suggests otherwise. I'm not saying every forum has to be all-inclusive; people for whom 40k is srs bsns need a place to chat and vent their frustrations too. But it doesn't lead to a lot of diversity, and it drives other people away.

Wargaming is not a gender-diverse crowd. It never will be, I suspect. Just as the best professional athletes will be male, the best warfighters will be male. It's in our genes. That's not misogynistic, it simply IS. But, Dakka draws people from all over the world. That's the diversity I'm speaking of. European and Asian wargamers do have different perspectives to us New Worlders.

As for the negativity? Welcome to the Internet? You really can't control what some anon on a forum is going to say or do. Positive interactions are better had IRL.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
If you're looking for a safe place on the internet there just isn't one. Sadly, even for the pure painter/collector among us the internet has a very magical way of stripping all the magic out of everything it touches, wargames included.

That's, like, the most depressing thing I've read all week.

Oh, but Sadie did say to thank everyone for being so helpful, and to tell Ailaros that he's a sweetheart.

 Lobukia wrote:

 EVIL INC wrote:

I'd suggest staying offline altogether lol. There is only one site I've seen to fit the bill in terms of being friendly and welcoming to everyone and thats Bell of Lost Souls. Some of the facebook groups re also pretty good. The Overlords is pretty good there.

Wow, you just recommended BoLS Trolls as a nice place?! I disagree. Dakkadakka certainly isn't the answer to the question either, but I like it that way.

I'd recommend the ICs forums. Kind people, more focus on narrative play, tends to be positive... #tuttletime

http://www.theindependentcharacters.com/forums/

Kinda funny to hear someone on Dakka criticize BoLS for troll behavior... though I guess if you're referring to BoLS frontpage rather than the forums, it would make sense.

The BoLS forums are probably about as female friendly as you can get. Not only are a number of top posters openly female, but there are several running threads on feminism and lgbt issues in the off-topic. Granted, if you're a guy, and you say anything that could remotely be construed as theoretically possibly being sexist in some conceivable way, Eldargal will flame the gak out of you, but her ire is only directed at guys. Or white people, I guess, if it's about a race issue like Ferguson, but even then it's really only white guys... huh, I kinda do see what you mean about trolls .

 Torga_DW wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Yeah! What @#%$ said we ain't $%^$ing polite here?

Well, you yourself are frequently encouraging hate-storms.

GW makes the storm, the rest of us just ride it.

Epic.

Where every body knows your name?

And there also glad you came?

lustigjh wrote:
Is this site really that bad? I thought it was kind of nice here. Then again, I frequented reddit for two years so maybe I'm used to much worse.

I must second this. Dakka is far-and-away the friendliest board I've ever been to. Sure, there are bad apples here and there as well as the occasional argument, but by and large it's pretty good.

Moving on from that, I also must second that the P&M forums are the pinnacle of this. Rarely have I ever seen anything but a kind (and often constructive) word spoken in either place.

Dakka's a great board, generally people are typically rather friendly on here.

It's certainly better than something like the god-awful Reddit warhammer group

This place is the nicest I've seen besides when you get the large influx of new people sometimes, but that always balances back out to the normal. The make the call sections are probably the roughest parts of it though, but overall its pretty decent.

Has she thought about creating a group page on the Facebook? Does it have to be female miniature gamers only or would she allow women RPGers and Boardgamers in as well?

Sometimes if you want a community, you have to build the community.

 the_Armyman wrote:
...the Off-Topic sub-forum is full of liberal, anti-capitalist, pot-smoking douchetards that think that government handouts and more legislation is a-okay! Hee hee!

Wargaming is not a gender-diverse crowd. It never will be, I suspect. Just as the best professional athletes will be male, the best warfighters will be male. It's in our genes. That's not misogynistic, it simply IS.

As for the negativity? Welcome to the Internet? You really can't control what some anon on a forum is going to say or do. Positive interactions are better had IRL.

I...don't really know how to respond to this. If...if you can't see how this is misogynistic, I don't know what to tell you. Except to humbly suggest that it is this sort of attitude that will keep wargaming from becoming gender-diverse. But this is a good example of the sort of thing she'd like to avoid. Needlessly insulting people ("douchetards" etc), saying that women can't be as good as men and that's just a reality that we have to accept, and saying that negativity is just the price of entry to the internet. Exactly what would make her leave a forum and never come back. A feeling I fully sympathize with.

DarkLink wrote:The BoLS forums are probably about as female friendly as you can get. Not only are a number of top posters openly female, but there are several running threads on feminism and lgbt issues in the off-topic. Granted, if you're a guy, and you say anything that could remotely be construed as theoretically possibly being sexist in some conceivable way, Eldargal will flame the gak out of you, but her ire is only directed at guys. Or white people, I guess, if it's about a race issue like Ferguson, but even then it's really only white guys... huh, I kinda do see what you mean about trolls.

She's not a feminist, not a vocal one in any case. I'm probably more keen on it than she is, honestly. She'd be driven off just as much by someone flaming other people with anti-patriarchal vitriol as she would by GW bashing and powergamers. She just wants a place where she can chat with like-minded people about the hobby she loves, talk about things she's excited about, and have fun.

Sadie read through the comments on the thread and said "I want to be able to post the tyranid earrings that I made and not have popcorn thrown at me for being too girly."

Thanks again folks.

"I want to be able to post the tyranid earrings that I made and not have popcorn thrown at me for being too girly.

That's pretty damn awsome. I would like to know how to make some (my girlfriend is also a nid player and seems like a nice gift to make.).

Has for Dakka, it's on average pretty nice. It has its fauna of bigotry and closet racism like any other place on internet but at least most of those comments aren't from ill thinking persons and aren't really agressive. With some thread surfing skills, it's a very nice place. It offer a very large community.

office_waaagh wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
If you're looking for a safe place on the internet there just isn't one. Sadly, even for the pure painter/collector among us the internet has a very magical way of stripping all the magic out of everything it touches, wargames included.

That's, like, the most depressing thing I've read all week.

Oh, but Sadie did say to thank everyone for being so helpful, and to tell Ailaros that he's a sweetheart.

Sorry for the depression there, I've just been seeing a LOT of drama lately where I'm finding out that stuff I like has a lot of awful going on behind it and starting hormones this week as not made me cheerier as of yet.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

office_waaagh wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
If you're looking for a safe place on the internet there just isn't one. Sadly, even for the pure painter/collector among us the internet has a very magical way of stripping all the magic out of everything it touches, wargames included.

That's, like, the most depressing thing I've read all week.

Oh, but Sadie did say to thank everyone for being so helpful, and to tell Ailaros that he's a sweetheart.

Sorry for the depression there, I've just been seeing a LOT of drama lately where I'm finding out that stuff I like has a lot of awful going on behind it and starting hormones this week as not made me cheerier as of yet.

Hey, depressing or not, you're not wrong. Sorry to hear that it's been a rough week for you though. Taking hormones is always rough on the mood, especially at first. Spending time on the internet probably doesn't help either. Anyway, I hope you feel better.

I can understand those people flaming you if you make rude comments towards groups of people. Not that we should expect everyone to be super nicey nice and always be 100 politically correct of course, but neither should people on a forum have to see racism and prejudice spewed all over them either as they do in "some" other places. neither should they be afraid to post anything ven remotely positive about 40k, it's background or models a s they are here or the reverse on warseer. they should be allowed to ave a different opinionwithout having to worry about 12+ pages of flames with the modsleading the charge Dakka and Portent/warseer and a few others have a wide reputation for that. True there is no "perfectly safe" places on the internet.
i'd still suggest BOLS and different facebook groups like the overlords.
Otherwise, I think the suggestion to stick to the modeling/painting sections in many places is a good idea for the safety. However, women and polite people should not have to make the decision to avoid the sections actually discussing the game because of the behavior of the "regulers" there. A thick skin is a requirement of successfully going on the internet. Some places you just need a thicker skin than others.
Cheers on looking out for her. If she is anything like my better half, she will likely find her own way even with your helpfull suggestions to her. lol Hope she enjoy her stay in the hobby.
Edit:

epronovost wrote:
"I want to be able to post the tyranid earrings that I made and not have popcorn thrown at me for being too girly.

That's pretty damn awsome. I would like to know how to make some (my girlfriend is also a nid player and seems like a nice gift to make.).

Indeed. That is a great idea. Ove the years, i have made mini-diarama apainteeeed single models for different women. Never thought of something like that. ahow to tutorial and suggestions of different ideas for different armies would be a great idea.Not girly at all, just trying to put a smile on the face of someone you care about.

office_waaagh wrote:

 the_Armyman wrote:
...the Off-Topic sub-forum is full of liberal, anti-capitalist, pot-smoking douchetards that think that government handouts and more legislation is a-okay! Hee hee!

Wargaming is not a gender-diverse crowd. It never will be, I suspect. Just as the best professional athletes will be male, the best warfighters will be male. It's in our genes. That's not misogynistic, it simply IS.

As for the negativity? Welcome to the Internet? You really can't control what some anon on a forum is going to say or do. Positive interactions are better had IRL.

I...don't really know how to respond to this. If...if you can't see how this is misogynistic, I don't know what to tell you. Except to humbly suggest that it is this sort of attitude that will keep wargaming from becoming gender-diverse. But this is a good example of the sort of thing she'd like to avoid. Needlessly insulting people ("douchetards" etc), saying that women can't be as good as men and that's just a reality that we have to accept, and saying that negativity is just the price of entry to the internet. Exactly what would make her leave a forum and never come back. A feeling I fully sympathize with.

The "hee hee" at the end of my "douchetards" comment was meant to be a j/k, poking fun comment. Next time I'll include the appropriate emoticon to drive the point home (see what I did there?)

See, here's the problem I have with this discussion. I point out a reality, a biological fact--men are genetically built to be physically stronger and faster --and somehow, I offend your sensibilities by bringing it up. By virtue of me being male, does that make me automatically physically superior to ALL women? Of course not. Wargaming is not an exclusively male pasttime, but it is dominated by males. You would say because they're excluded, they're not welcome by people like me. I would say that it is not a pursuit that interests women because they have not historically been interested in simulations of warfare. It historically has not been a part of their experience as a gender.

Women and men are different. They have different interests and different genetic predispositions. Are there exceptions? Yes. But these women are exceptions for a reason, just not the one you seem to be conditioned to point out.

BTW, I do find it kind strange that you refer to your wife as "sensitive" and portray her as this wilting flower that has difficulty with the adversity and potential negativity of an Internet forum. It's almost as if you consider her weak and wish to protect her from all of us male troglodytes. Are you sure you're not projecting a bit?

xraytango wrote:
Has she thought about creating a group page on the Facebook? Does it have to be female miniature gamers only or would she allow women RPGers and Boardgamers in as well?

Sometimes if you want a community, you have to build the community.

In all seriousness I think this might be the best way forward. Especially using Facebook where people are a bit more restrained since their words can be tied to their real names.

ClockworkZion wrote:Sorry for the depression there, I've just been seeing a LOT of drama lately where I'm finding out that stuff I like has a lot of awful going on behind it and starting hormones this week as not made me cheerier as of yet.

Yeah, this exploded to much higher levels once 7th edition came out. I just threw a few dozen people on my ignore list and rode it out. There are still a few sticking around devoted to correcting anyone stupid enough to be having fun with 40k, but by and large, it's been waning slowly over time.

Especially in certain parts of the forum moreso than others.

DarkLink wrote:The BoLS forums are probably about as female friendly as you can get. Not only are a number of top posters openly female, but there are several running threads on feminism and lgbt issues in the off-topic. Granted, if you're a guy, and you say anything that could remotely be construed as theoretically possibly being sexist in some conceivable way, Eldargal will flame the gak out of you

I'd note, though, that "feminist" and "woman-friendly" are not synonyms. My wife is a woman, and she's gotten pretty fed-up with social justice types.

One of the best ways to be friendly to women is to not drag gender into everything. Especially for people who want to be judged as a person, not just by their gribbly bits. You know, like most women.

office_waaagh wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

office_waaagh wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
If you're looking for a safe place on the internet there just isn't one. Sadly, even for the pure painter/collector among us the internet has a very magical way of stripping all the magic out of everything it touches, wargames included.

That's, like, the most depressing thing I've read all week.

Oh, but Sadie did say to thank everyone for being so helpful, and to tell Ailaros that he's a sweetheart.

Sorry for the depression there, I've just been seeing a LOT of drama lately where I'm finding out that stuff I like has a lot of awful going on behind it and starting hormones this week as not made me cheerier as of yet.

Hey, depressing or not, you're not wrong. Sorry to hear that it's been a rough week for you though. Taking hormones is always rough on the mood, especially at first. Spending time on the internet probably doesn't help either. Anyway, I hope you feel better.

It'll get better in time. At least I'm not mood-swinging at work.

Just avoid discussions like: "Tacticals are garbage", "Why i hate latest edition and everyone in particular", "Spawns can't run because they have no eyes to forego shooting" and you're good.

In all fairness, dakka friendliness is way above average. Sure, it's not a pony-land with rainbows everywhere and everyone farting butterflies but it's decently friendly.

Please don't take all the decent people, and leave me behind with the other dreks like me. It would make this community poorer :(

office_waaagh wrote:

DarkLink wrote:The BoLS forums are probably about as female friendly as you can get. Not only are a number of top posters openly female, but there are several running threads on feminism and lgbt issues in the off-topic. Granted, if you're a guy, and you say anything that could remotely be construed as theoretically possibly being sexist in some conceivable way, Eldargal will flame the gak out of you, but her ire is only directed at guys. Or white people, I guess, if it's about a race issue like Ferguson, but even then it's really only white guys... huh, I kinda do see what you mean about trolls.

She's not a feminist, not a vocal one in any case. I'm probably more keen on it than she is, honestly. She'd be driven off just as much by someone flaming other people with anti-patriarchal vitriol as she would by GW bashing and powergamers. She just wants a place where she can chat with like-minded people about the hobby she loves, talk about things she's excited about, and have fun.

Sadie read through the comments on the thread and said "I want to be able to post the tyranid earrings that I made and not have popcorn thrown at me for being too girly."

Thanks again folks.

Oh, I'm very familiar with Eldargal's posts, I'm one of the regulars on BoLS. Most of the time she's cool, but every once and a while she absolutely goes off on someone. I think the last time it happened she got the BoLS Ferguson thread locked, which is saying something as BoLS mods rarely lock threads. The troll implication was mostly a joke. As long as you don't imply that you're against abortion or don't feel that the Ferguson grand jury acquittal was racist, you should be fine .


Really, in general, I've found that most of the major forums think of all the other major forums as hives of scum and villainy. It's mostly overrated.

office_waaagh wrote:

 the_Armyman wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:


Wow, you just recommended BoLS Trolls as a nice place?! I disagree. Dakkadakka certainly isn't the answer to the question either, but I like it that way.

I'd recommend the ICs forums. Kind people, more focus on narrative play, tends to be positive... #tuttletime

http://www.theindependentcharacters.com/forums/

+1

The Independent Characters forum has a different culture than Dakka. It's much more positive and the mods play a role in keeping it positive. But, positivity can also stifle legitimate debate. Everything is not well in 40K Land, and although it's not good to only dwell on that aspect, it's also pretty damn hard to ignore.

Dakka has a rough edge at times, but you also can get some honest, thoughtful feedback and discussion from a really diverse group of hobbyists.

A "rough edge" is putting it somewhat mildly. I don't consider myself an easily offended person: I've been a non-com in the infantry for my entire adult life. I'm used to the trash talk and so on, and dakka is pretty mild by the standards of the internet. But Sadie is different; she's sensitive, and she likes chatting and having fun and isn't so interested in debating how evil GW is and how bad the latest rules are or how broken some unit or other is. If she posted something like "I love my tyranids, the Alien vibe is awesome and the new models are amazing!" she'd get a bunch of replies along the lines of "Lol the maleceptor is terrible and you should never use it", "GW stole the Alien look because they're uncreative money-grubbing thieves", "ever since 6th dropped assault is dead and so are 'nids because GW can't write balanced rules", and so on, and she'd leave feeling completely deflated and sad when all she wanted was to come and chat about a thing she loves. On that basis, I have a really hard time recommending dakka to her. I don't want to set her up to get her feelings hurt.

Whether or not all is well in 40k land is a matter for debate. I don't see any problems, but I don't play in tournaments against taudar wave serpent spam or 2++ rerollable invisible daemon factories. The game is fun and the fluff is cool, and that's all I ask for. Now, people are going to disagree with me, and that's fine. But there's a tendency on dakka for certain people to ambush threads and denounce GW and 40k roundly, regardless of what the actual topic of discussion is, and spoil the atmosphere for people that really just want to talk about how much fun they're having. People get touchy, backs get up, and suddenly there's a wall of text three pages long about whether paying 5 points for a grot orderly makes you subhuman.

I kind of have a problem with the idea that we're a "diverse" group of hobbyists, to be honest. The fact that I know there are women out there (besides Sadie) that love 40k and won't come near a place like dakka for all the tea in China because of the hostility and negativity suggests otherwise. I'm not saying every forum has to be all-inclusive; people for whom 40k is srs bsns need a place to chat and vent their frustrations too. But it doesn't lead to a lot of diversity, and it drives other people away.

Thanks for all the great suggestions, everyone.

Cheers,
Jesse.

While I am ending The Independent Characters Podcast in April - the forums will remain active and open and they are indeed a bit of a "safe haven" in the maelstrom that is many of the larger online communities. If your wife is on Facebook, I would also recommend The Overlords facebook group which is also heavily moderated and quite a nice place to hang.

 the_Armyman wrote:

office_waaagh wrote:

 the_Armyman wrote:
...the Off-Topic sub-forum is full of liberal, anti-capitalist, pot-smoking douchetards that think that government handouts and more legislation is a-okay! Hee hee!

Wargaming is not a gender-diverse crowd. It never will be, I suspect. Just as the best professional athletes will be male, the best warfighters will be male. It's in our genes. That's not misogynistic, it simply IS.

As for the negativity? Welcome to the Internet? You really can't control what some anon on a forum is going to say or do. Positive interactions are better had IRL.

I...don't really know how to respond to this. If...if you can't see how this is misogynistic, I don't know what to tell you. Except to humbly suggest that it is this sort of attitude that will keep wargaming from becoming gender-diverse. But this is a good example of the sort of thing she'd like to avoid. Needlessly insulting people ("douchetards" etc), saying that women can't be as good as men and that's just a reality that we have to accept, and saying that negativity is just the price of entry to the internet. Exactly what would make her leave a forum and never come back. A feeling I fully sympathize with.

The "hee hee" at the end of my "douchetards" comment was meant to be a j/k, poking fun comment. Next time I'll include the appropriate emoticon to drive the point home (see what I did there?)

See, here's the problem I have with this discussion. I point out a reality, a biological fact--men are genetically built to be physically stronger and faster --and somehow, I offend your sensibilities by bringing it up. By virtue of me being male, does that make me automatically physically superior to ALL women? Of course not. Wargaming is not an exclusively male pasttime, but it is dominated by males. You would say because they're excluded, they're not welcome by people like me. I would say that it is not a pursuit that interests women because they have not historically been interested in simulations of warfare. It historically has not been a part of their experience as a gender.

Women and men are different. They have different interests and different genetic predispositions. Are there exceptions? Yes. But these women are exceptions for a reason, just not the one you seem to be conditioned to point out.

BTW, I do find it kind strange that you refer to your wife as "sensitive" and portray her as this wilting flower that has difficulty with the adversity and potential negativity of an Internet forum. It's almost as if you consider her weak and wish to protect her from all of us male troglodytes. Are you sure you're not projecting a bit?

Yep. Womynz ain't strong enough wot to lift up and paint them tough metal minis. Dey's better off staying in da kitchen and making sandwiches, cuz they small fingers can make sandwichez faster.

Seriously, way too hold back the advancement of society, moron. Also, please don't drag science into your sexist view of reality.

Thanks again to everyone for the overwhelmingly positive response - Sadie appreciates all the kind words.

Cheers, you guys are awesome,
Jesse and Sadie

 jreilly89 wrote:

Seriously, way too hold back the advancement of society, moron. Also, please don't drag science into your sexist view of reality.

Well, there's some point in that. For example, my girlfriend likes to paint models but doesn't really like the actual gaming process. Neither does she like the grimdark aspect of the fluff while i find it cool. And from what i've seen it's a norm. It's the situation when one person says: "EEEEEW-" the other says: "AHA! Awesome". Weather we like it or not, men and women do have different approach to stuff in general. Not that you can't find tabletop gamer girls - they're just more rare than tabletop gamer guys for some reason.

Anywayz, i think that dakka is multi-dimensional enough for any personality to fit. Probably no need to form an all-girl society to feel comfortable. Just don't stick to the topics you don't like and you're good to go - enough other topics you'd really like.

Look for the OP, ultimatly internet fourms are a place people share opinions. anything that people have strong opinions of (like a hobby they put time and money into) will on occasion get heated, likewise the internet does have the occasional trollish person. best advice I can give is that the internet isn't a good place for your wife (FOR ANYTHING) or give it a shot and try not to let herself feel too sensitive to things. we all mean well here...... well most of us

 koooaei wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

Seriously, way too hold back the advancement of society, moron. Also, please don't drag science into your sexist view of reality.

Well, there's some point in that. For example, my girlfriend likes to paint models but doesn't really like the actual gaming process. Neither does she like the grimdark aspect of the fluff while i find it cool. And from what i've seen it's a norm. It's the situation when one person says: "EEEEEW-" the other says: "AHA! Awesome". Weather we like it or not, men and women do have different approach to stuff in general. Not that you can't find tabletop gamer girls - they're just more rare than tabletop gamer guys for some reason.

Anywayz, i think that dakka is multi-dimensional enough for any personality to fit. Probably no need to form an all-girl society to feel comfortable. Just don't stick to the topics you don't like and you're good to go - enough other topics you'd really like.

That's fine. To be fair, I've found a lot of women are turned off because of the community, rather than the subject matter/content itself. My point was he was saying wargaming is only for men because they are better/stronger/faster and that's asinine unless you're a caveman.

We're all cavemen to some extent
However, i think you have a point here. The community is sometimes jerky.

In my lfgs, which is a great friendly place on the whole, there's one guy who i can't recall not having started a screamy salty argument for even a single visit. He also likes walking around telling people their painting is garbage and that they should do it the other way. And that wh40k sux due to ballance and that he quit it for fantasy battle cause it's obviously much better. Even so, he's powergaming and raging even there. Personally, i find it amusing but others get upset from time to time.

I guess it's about the concentration of such people who willingly run around you in circles spoiling your gaming time. But that's aplicable not only for tabletop games, you know. Got to know how to deal with such people or at least how not to get them too seriously.

 jreilly89 wrote:

 koooaei wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

Seriously, way too hold back the advancement of society, moron. Also, please don't drag science into your sexist view of reality.

Well, there's some point in that. For example, my girlfriend likes to paint models but doesn't really like the actual gaming process. Neither does she like the grimdark aspect of the fluff while i find it cool. And from what i've seen it's a norm. It's the situation when one person says: "EEEEEW-" the other says: "AHA! Awesome". Weather we like it or not, men and women do have different approach to stuff in general. Not that you can't find tabletop gamer girls - they're just more rare than tabletop gamer guys for some reason.

Anywayz, i think that dakka is multi-dimensional enough for any personality to fit. Probably no need to form an all-girl society to feel comfortable. Just don't stick to the topics you don't like and you're good to go - enough other topics you'd really like.

That's fine. To be fair, I've found a lot of women are turned off because of the community, rather than the subject matter/content itself. My point was he was saying wargaming is only for men because they are better/stronger/faster and that's asinine unless you're a caveman.

I think calling him a moron and such was an example of the sort of way he doesnt want his wife to be treated.
I DO agree with your sentiment though. The models we move around on the table really arent THAT heavy. Even the forgeworld titans can be easily moved by a "weakling" (not to say women are weaklings of course.
The reason I think you see less women play is because historically, the majority of human societies have been rather misogynistic. Historically women have been taught from birth that it is not their place to meddle in war. it has nothing to do with strength (look at the bow and firearms or heck, even the sling. Skill, accuracy and spped play just as much a part as strength. This means it has to be a societal issue.
Fast forward to today.Women are holding jobs that used to be men only and outdoing many men at it. Holding their own. the same goes for the military and the corporate world.
Our hobbies seem to be one of the last "holdouts" of the misogynistic mind. Many men who feel inadequate dont want women invading their private "me time" where they can feel empowered. Often it is also because the players actually feel they are superio and women shouldnt play. Others feel that it emasculates them. Especially when they are out gamed by a woman. Personally, I am secure in my manhood and welcome women in the hobby as it gives a wider variety of opponents, often causes the "guys" to behave better and adds more $ to the community and companies to help keep them in business.

Most of the time, the tyranids group over on facebook is super helpful and friendly. Today I wanted to beat faces in for being juvenile and misogynistic.

One of the guys posted about how his gf said she wanted to play 40k and was excited and got some of the usual asinine responses.

Anyway, try facebook's Games Workshop Army Painters group. It's nothing but painting and modeling in there. It's also a great place to gawk at some fabulous looking models.


As for the gender in wargaming thing...I won't go into that, I went over a bunch of points about that in a thread about that a while back.

Lol at

 DarkLink wrote:

a number of top posters are openly female,

Go to the P&M forum! Best place on the internet! #1! (Also I want Tyranid earrings now).

http://jen-kollic.deviantart.com/art/Tyranid-Ripper-Earrings-30558367 Thar' gow.

Hey, if you want to set up a 40k Facebook group that is nice, I'd like to help. I would similarly enjoy a space like this, and I've had experience with large scale nice spaces on the internet. It's very doable.

It's not just women who are turned off by the community.

Age-restricted forums would be a massive boon. With mature moderators (18+) acting as handlers for the grots until they themselves reach 18.

The benefits include:
1) Censoring out the foul language so the little'uns don't pick up bad habits. (Yes they probably know bad words too, but they won't have adults using them in return)
2) Conversations appropriate to the level of the readers with educational bits popped in by the moderators
3) Snotlings avoiding the abuse that comes with picking arguments with some of the older elements.

 jreilly89 wrote:

Yep. Womynz ain't strong enough wot to lift up and paint them tough metal minis. Dey's better off staying in da kitchen and making sandwiches, cuz they small fingers can make sandwichez faster.

Seriously, way too hold back the advancement of society, moron. Also, please don't drag science into your sexist view of reality.

So, I bring up that women and men are biologically different and have different aptitudes. From those points, you deduce that I must mean that women are too weak to pick up miniatures. If those are the type of rational conclusions you come up with, please put me on ignore. It is doubtful you and I can have a polite, intelligent conversation.

I think this particular misdirection is best left here.

Thank you.

My advice is try to be a women less and a human being more. I'm sure there are going to be some all female groups but it's not going to be the norm. Shouldn't matter because nerds are very accepting people. You should see some of the people who regularly game at my shops - some people who would be ousted by many different types of groups are accepted and welcomed into our gaming groups. If you are a the kind of women who wants to flaunt feminism around though in an environment of war gaming - it's going to be met with negativity every time. IMO it's really as simple as not flaunting feminism and everything will work fine.

Wow, thanks Don Draper.

Who you calling Don Draper? lol

This is exactly the kind of gak OP was talking about. We don't need every thread concerning the Sisters of Battle to develop into a discussion about whether women belong on the battlefield, or if they really were just an army designed for girls. We especially don't need pricks who come along and talk about how men are just simply genetically superior or anything like that.

Let's try to keep this civil, folks. I'd like to avoid getting the thread locked for one, if possible. If this turns into a broader conversation about inclusiveness on the forums, I don't think that's a bad thing. But it's devolving into a shouting match, and that's the sort of thing that stifles conversation and discourages people from participating.

Someone earlier suggested that I'm characterizing Sadie as a "wilting flower" or some such thing, and that's not the case. She is quite tough, in her own way, and very resilient. Also eight months pregnant, so if she can handle that and the hard bit at the end she can probably take anything. She doesn't like confrontation or arguing though, and she wants to hang out in a forum or group where she reads things that make her happy and excited to play 40k rather than angry and disappointed.

I'll mention again that she's not a feminist in the "shouting at you because you are male" sense; she wants to be treated like a human being, regardless of gender. That sounds like an easy thing to come by, but a lot of people use the anonymity of a forum to dehumanize the other party(s) in a conversation and the discourse becomes less than civil and supportive.

There's also an attitude that "we have things the way we like and we're not going to change." That's fine to a point; some people like the confrontation and arguing and so on on forums, and they need a place to yell at each other online too. But taking a "you can play with the boys so long as you fit in with the boys" attitude isn't very welcoming or accepting of new people, especially people from outside the core demographic. Maybe this is my Canadian showing, but I'd like to think different people can all get together on the basis of common humanity and shared interests without having to suppress the things that make them unique and interesting for fear of getting shouted at.

office_waaagh wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
If you're looking for a safe place on the internet there just isn't one. Sadly, even for the pure painter/collector among us the internet has a very magical way of stripping all the magic out of everything it touches, wargames included.

That's, like, the most depressing thing I've read all week.

Oh, but Sadie did say to thank everyone for being so helpful, and to tell Ailaros that he's a sweetheart.

She should have a look at Tale of Painters. That is a wonderful hobby website that is really quite free of the negativity you sometimes see on other sites. Plus, they have a lot of great Tyranid painting guides, as Nids happen to be one of the favorite armies of the guys who run the site.

Did you check there, in the end : https://plus.google.com/u/1/communities/113711991701122962234 ? I saw very few negativity there. Ryan Cunningham in particular is a sweetie, he always forward me every new piece of rumor about the Sisters and stuff .

(I use a feminine name (that is a pun) and avatar (that is Germany's most dangerous woman, actually) on Google+, and I never had any problem there, too.)

 the_Armyman wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

Yep. Womynz ain't strong enough wot to lift up and paint them tough metal minis. Dey's better off staying in da kitchen and making sandwiches, cuz they small fingers can make sandwichez faster.

Seriously, way too hold back the advancement of society, moron. Also, please don't drag science into your sexist view of reality.

So, I bring up that women and men are biologically different and have different aptitudes. From those points, you deduce that I must mean that women are too weak to pick up miniatures. If those are the type of rational conclusions you come up with, please put me on ignore. It is doubtful you and I can have a polite, intelligent conversation.

There's a difference between "biologically different with different aptitudes" and "the best professional athletes will be male, the best warfighters will be male, men are genetically built to be physically stronger and faster". So no, I don't think we can have a polite, intelligent conversation, because I refuse to have conversations with someone who thinks women are inferior. Thanks for the ignore tip, though.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
http://jen-kollic.deviantart.com/art/Tyranid-Ripper-Earrings-30558367 Thar' gow.

Oh those are cute.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Did you check there, in the end : https://plus.google.com/u/1/communities/113711991701122962234 ? I saw very few negativity there. Ryan Cunningham in particular is a sweetie, he always forward me every new piece of rumor about the Sisters and stuff .

(I use a feminine name (that is a pun) and avatar (that is Germany's most dangerous woman, actually) on Google+, and I never had any problem there, too.)

She checked it out but I don't know if she's on G+. I'll definitely pass along the recommendation though. I'll admit I'm curious about who is "Germany's most dangerous woman"...coming from someone from France that could mean anything!

Merci beaucoup!

 eskimo wrote:
It's not bullying, it's character building

Though the modelling section is a pretty happy place.As for other forums, i've personally never seen any that haven't had at least two jumped up users. 40k just doesn't lend itself to pure friendliness.

I'd hunt down the females here and see if you could make a facebook group of your/ their own.

Background section is generally good as well. I've had many geekstorm discussions there without them getting nasty. Hit the Yellow if it starts and Mods will be on that pronto.

Agreed stay out of OT.

There are slo several dedicated modeling forums on da internetz if thats her bag as well. Those are usually very positive, with lots of suggestions.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
http://jen-kollic.deviantart.com/art/Tyranid-Ripper-Earrings-30558367 Thar' gow.

Oh those are cute.

I KNOW!!! This is the first time I've ever wanted to have my ears pierced.

office_waaagh wrote:
I'll admit I'm curious about who is "Germany's most dangerous woman"...coming from someone from France that could mean anything!

I have had some people confuse her with Avril Lavigne. She is much more dangerous than Avril, though.

Who is it then? 'cause my German partner has no idea!

Why have you chosen a murderer and terrorist as your avatar?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Who is it then? 'cause my German partner has no idea!

Ulrike Meinhof

 Paradigm wrote:
I suggest the painting and modelling forums on here if she's into that. Only very rarely do you get any negativity up there, it's typically very constructive, polite and welcoming. Not saying the rest of Dakka isn't (for the most part, Dakka is a very decent forum for gaming in general), but you're never short of a good conversation or some helpful advice in the P&M boards.

This. just avoid N&R OT and General chats and she should be fine.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

office_waaagh wrote:
I'll admit I'm curious about who is "Germany's most dangerous woman"...coming from someone from France that could mean anything!

I have had some people confuse her with Avril Lavigne. She is much more dangerous than Avril, though.

Ha! She does look like Avril Lavigne! I'd not seen that picture before.

I recognize her as an associate of the Baader-Meinhof gang, Google tells me her name is Brigitte Mohnhaupt (and it's in the URL of the picture, I now see!).

office_waaagh wrote:

I recognize her as an associate of the Baader-Meinhof gang, Google tells me her name is Brigitte Mohnhaupt (and it's in the URL of the picture, I now see!).

Woops, looks like I got the wrong terrorist.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
http://jen-kollic.deviantart.com/art/Tyranid-Ripper-Earrings-30558367 Thar' gow.

You'll draw 40k male fans to you like astranomican.

 koooaei wrote:

You'll draw 40k male fans to you like astranomican.

I...think she'd probably like to avoid that too.

In all honesty, if your wife is even remotely sensitive I wouldn´t recommend DakkaDakka or any of it´s subforums especially for someone who likes 40K ( for reasons someone will surely want me to list after this post while simultaneously being completely aware of them. )

 RunicFIN wrote:
( for reasons someone will surely want me to list after this post while simultaneously being completely aware of them. )

Welcome to MY world. lol I agree though. Its one of if not THE worst on the internet in terms of participating or interaction. Fairly decent in terms of purely finding information though.

It could be that it might just be an idea to give her a list of the sites you know, have heard of. A "warning tag" attached to the names of the sites/groups and just let her go at it. She will decide for herself what she can take or not take and may even find a few sites on her own your not even aware of.

Dakka is probably the nicest general forum you could find. We certainly have issues, but relatively speaking its a very civil place. Largely thanks to the mods who do a good job of policing and enforcing the rules(which really just amount to "play nice")

 Grey Templar wrote:
Dakka is probably the nicest general forum you could find. We certainly have issues, but relatively speaking its a very civil place. Largely thanks to the mods who do a good job of policing and enforcing the rules(which really just amount to "play nice")

Agreed - I like the rules here. Some forums take it too far in moderating but seems the guys/girl here do a good job. I've never had a problem. Then again, I'm still pretty new here.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Dakka is probably the nicest general forum you could find. We certainly have issues, but relatively speaking its a very civil place. Largely thanks to the mods who do a good job of policing and enforcing the rules(which really just amount to "play nice")

Agreed - I like the rules here. Some forums take it too far in moderating but seems the guys/girl here do a good job. I've never had a problem. Then again, I'm still pretty new here.

I actually disagree. I think the general tone of Dakka is negative. I stay here because it seems to have more traffic than other places. If other places had as much traffic but were not as negative I would go there instead. I have said it in another thread, I think the mods here could do a better job on controlling the negativity, but that is just my opinion.

The very topic of this thread (and the fact it has gone on for 3 pages) indicates there are others who share the same opinion. Maybe the mods should think about that as they do their moderation work?

I used to be an admin and mod on several Tribes forums (some of them as large as this one) when Tribes was a populer game. Of course since then computer games like that have fallen to console games but thats another story....
Anyway, we had other mods who did indeed do a great job and we had ones who had the same problem as many here. they forgot how to be impartial and took sides in arguments, allowed some to break rules and made up fake offences to get rid of people who disagreed with them legitimately on topics and participated in much negativity. I and the other admins got rid of them and policed our enforcers keeping the sites "family oriented" places where all were welcomed.
The 40k sites (and many other forum topic sites) of today dont police the actions of their enforcers. This is where we end up with debates of which sites are good and bad. Your right, the very fact that the answer is not unanimous shows that there is an issue.

Loborocket wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Dakka is probably the nicest general forum you could find. We certainly have issues, but relatively speaking its a very civil place. Largely thanks to the mods who do a good job of policing and enforcing the rules(which really just amount to "play nice")

Agreed - I like the rules here. Some forums take it too far in moderating but seems the guys/girl here do a good job. I've never had a problem. Then again, I'm still pretty new here.

I actually disagree. I think the general tone of Dakka is negative. I stay here because it seems to have more traffic than other places. If other places had as much traffic but were not as negative I would go there instead. I have said it in another thread, I think the mods here could do a better job on controlling the negativity, but that is just my opinion.

The very topic of this thread (and the fact it has gone on for 3 pages) indicates there are others who share the same opinion. Maybe the mods should think about that as they do their moderation work?

That's dangerously close to calling for the Thought Police.

As has to be, surprisingly frequently, pointed out Dakka, and no other forum, is not a gestalt entity, it is comprised of individual people with their own opinions - if those opinions in the places you hang out seem negative, perhaps it would behoove you to look at the causes of those negative opinion, rather than those who hold them?

Calling for moderators to act against people because they hold different opinions to those that you (evidently) do is a dreadful, dreadful idea.

 Azreal13 wrote:

Loborocket wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Dakka is probably the nicest general forum you could find. We certainly have issues, but relatively speaking its a very civil place. Largely thanks to the mods who do a good job of policing and enforcing the rules(which really just amount to "play nice")

Agreed - I like the rules here. Some forums take it too far in moderating but seems the guys/girl here do a good job. I've never had a problem. Then again, I'm still pretty new here.

I actually disagree. I think the general tone of Dakka is negative. I stay here because it seems to have more traffic than other places. If other places had as much traffic but were not as negative I would go there instead. I have said it in another thread, I think the mods here could do a better job on controlling the negativity, but that is just my opinion.

The very topic of this thread (and the fact it has gone on for 3 pages) indicates there are others who share the same opinion. Maybe the mods should think about that as they do their moderation work?

That's dangerously close to calling for the Thought Police.

As has to be, surprisingly frequently, pointed out Dakka, and no other forum, is not a gestalt entity, it is comprised of individual people with their own opinions - if those opinions in the places you hang out seem negative, perhaps it would behoove you to look at the causes of those negative opinion, rather than those who hold them?

Calling for moderators to act against people because they hold different opinions to those that you (evidently) do is a dreadful, dreadful idea.

Predictable response. I never said anything close to calling for "thought police". I just said i think the moderators could do a better job than they currently do. Pretty sure it is possible to do the job without being the "thought police". I am not saying this is the "Wild West", but I have seen better.

I think they do a good job. Less is more in this case IMO.

There's nothing wrong with Dakka's moderation team, and the negativity you'll find on just about any gaming forum.

If you guys really want to see what a truly bad moderator team looks like, go check out the Reddit warhammer board, they've got a mod over there right now actively responding to people who take issue with him acting like a toolbag with "Bloooooooooooowwwww meeeeeeeeee"

Loborocket wrote:


Predictable response. I never said anything close to calling for "thought police". I just said i think the moderators could do a better job than they currently do. Pretty sure it is possible to do the job without being the "thought police". I am not saying this is the "Wild West", but I have seen better.

Predictable response.

How could the moderators do a better job without policing people's thoughts. If they haven't broken a rule, its kosher. Your perception of negativity is not shared by everyone, so there's no way a mod could 'fix' the negativity without policing what people can and can't say.

I find Dakka to have a fine mod team, and generally a solid board with a variety of content. Being one of the largest wargaming forums will obviously attract its fair share of conflicting personalities and opinions, but such is the price you pay for having a large, active, diverse community.

I wouldn't have it any other way.

Loborocket wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:

Loborocket wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Dakka is probably the nicest general forum you could find. We certainly have issues, but relatively speaking its a very civil place. Largely thanks to the mods who do a good job of policing and enforcing the rules(which really just amount to "play nice")

Agreed - I like the rules here. Some forums take it too far in moderating but seems the guys/girl here do a good job. I've never had a problem. Then again, I'm still pretty new here.

I actually disagree. I think the general tone of Dakka is negative. I stay here because it seems to have more traffic than other places. If other places had as much traffic but were not as negative I would go there instead. I have said it in another thread, I think the mods here could do a better job on controlling the negativity, but that is just my opinion.

The very topic of this thread (and the fact it has gone on for 3 pages) indicates there are others who share the same opinion. Maybe the mods should think about that as they do their moderation work?

That's dangerously close to calling for the Thought Police.

As has to be, surprisingly frequently, pointed out Dakka, and no other forum, is not a gestalt entity, it is comprised of individual people with their own opinions - if those opinions in the places you hang out seem negative, perhaps it would behoove you to look at the causes of those negative opinion, rather than those who hold them?

Calling for moderators to act against people because they hold different opinions to those that you (evidently) do is a dreadful, dreadful idea.

Predictable response. I never said anything close to calling for "thought police". I just said i think the moderators could do a better job than they currently do. Pretty sure it is possible to do the job without being the "thought police". I am not saying this is the "Wild West", but I have seen better.

Dakka is overmoderated, but thats a result of being host to one of the internets most toxic GW based communities. Other fora which are smaller and non-GW related are a lot more chilled and grown up about things.

In terms of the original topic, 40k is generally a male-orientated community and online adds to the level of vitriol and toxicity that you find .The best thing to do would be make friends in an FLGS so that you avoid the SEN types that seem to populate these boards.

Predictable response.

A fine example of the petty tit-for-tat toxcity on these forums.

How could the moderators do a better job without policing people's thoughts. If they haven't broken a rule, its kosher. Your perception of negativity is not shared by everyone, so there's no way a mod could 'fix' the negativity without policing what people can and can't say.

I find Dakka to have a fine mod team, and generally a solid board with a variety of content. Being one of the largest wargaming forums will obviously attract its fair share of conflicting personalities and opinions, but such is the price you pay for having a large, active, diverse community.

I wouldn't have it any other way.

This is why forums that are over-moderated suck - dissenting option laced with bitchy, pick a fight comments tend to shut down legitimate discussion or argument. I know someone who got a ban for stating facts in an off topic thread that were contrary to the belief of the OP and the prevailing mod. But never let facts stand in the way of an opportunity to throw the mod-weight around.

 melkorthetonedeaf wrote:
Lol at

 DarkLink wrote:

a number of top posters are openly female,

Go to the P&M forum! Best place on the internet! #1! (Also I want Tyranid earrings now).

What is pretty cool is several of the BOLS girls are posters that I've seen for years, posting just like everyone else, nothing special, fit right in. Then after picking up on contextual clues you realize 'hey, X is a girl, I never knew that before'. Prime example of how stupid it is to think that wargaming should only be a men's club.

I wonder if there's a correlation between those who criticise the moderation team and those who themselves have acted in a way to require frequent moderation?

 Azreal13 wrote:
I wonder if there's a correlation between those who criticise the moderation team and those who themselves have acted in a way to require frequent moderation?

That would be my guess.

Every now and then we get a real doozy of a new poster who breaks all the rules, often just because they want to.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Who is it then? 'cause my German partner has no idea!

Just click the picture (well, it has been spoiled already now ).

 Azreal13 wrote:
I wonder if there's a correlation between those who criticise the moderation team and those who themselves have acted in a way to require frequent moderation?

Absolutely not. You bring up part of the problem. FAR too many times, situations occurr like this...
1.person posts an opinion in a polite manner. This opinion will differ from someone else who has posted earlier in a thread. There is no quotes or anything of that nature. just a seperate opinion posted by a different person.
2. the earlier poster instigates a flame war with quotes directly telling the polite poster that they are wrong and stupid and calling them names.
3. A few of their buddies jump on the bandwagon and continue the harassment. name calling insulting family members who are not even involved or whatnot.
4. the polite person reports the behavior and as the mod has the same original opinion asthe person who instigated the assault so joins in with the flames, name calling and so forth without taking any action against the group breaking the rules.
5. The polite poster points this out and is immediately told they broke a rule (insert made up reason but the REAL reason is that they were able to prove a point in a polite manner without breaking the rules and the action is done out of frustration of this) and action is taken against them.
6. Eventually the polite poster joins the ranks of those who just keep their head down and their opinions to themselves because they know the routine.

Remove the underlying cause and you remove the need. Your confusing a sympton of the problem with being the problem itself. Although I forsee a closing of the thread and actions taken against all of us who have politely given our opinions without breaking any rules. possibly posts edited or removed to hide the issue as I have seen done in at least one other thread.

I've never seen a mod join in on a flamewar. If that happens you should PM another Mod or Yakface.

Do you have a link to such an event on Dakka?

Oh noes, the thread's been EVILed.....

Dakka moderation is not so bad. I would say that actually, if you:
- are careful with your language (no swearing that is not catch by the filter)
- do not post in Off-Topic
you should be fine.
If you do post in Off-Topic, well… you might happen to get the Random Mod Attack randomly triggered by something you said. For instance, saying Saudi Arabia is disseminating a lot of hateful speeches. That was deemed inflammatory, but if we look at the definition of hate-speech in most western countries, it is just factual.

 EVIL INC wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
I wonder if there's a correlation between those who criticise the moderation team and those who themselves have acted in a way to require frequent moderation?

Absolutely not. You bring up part of the problem. FAR too many times, situations occurr like this...
1.person posts an opinion in a polite manny. This opinion will differ from someone else who has posted earlier in a thread. There is no quotes or anything of that nature. just a seperate opinion posted by a different person.
2. the earlier poster instigates a flame war with quotes directly telling the polite poster that they are wrong and stupid and calling them names.
3. A few of their buddies jump on the bandwagon and continue the harassment. name calling insulting family members who are not even involved or whatnot.
4. the polite person reports the behavior and as the mod has the same original opinion asthe person who instigated the assault so joins in with the flames, name calling and so forth without taking any action against the group breaking the rules.
5. The polite poster points this out and is immediately told they broke a rule (insert made up reason) and action is taken against them.
6. Eventually the polite poster joins the ranks of those who just keep their head down and their opinions to themselves because they know the routine.

Remove the underlying cause and you remove the need. Your confusing a sympton of the problem with being the problem itself.

And by 'far too many times' you mean 'about as often as a cat barks', right?

I happen to agree with Azraeal's observation, and think that you're wildly exaggerating--like when you state that harassment and insults against family members occur. I've been a member here for over 4 years, and I can count the times that sort of thing has happened on one hand, and I don't even need anything to help me count the number of times (zero, if you hadn't guessed) where moderators have let it pass or joined in, never mind both.

From where I'm standing, you seem the have a vendetta against the moderation team, going as far as to heavily imply that they regularly partake in hate posts against members, and ban people for disagreeing with them. This is simply not true, and begs the question: if it's so unfair, why are you still here?

I find bolterandchainsword to be a much more pleasant experience than dakka. She should check that out.

He got banned on Warseer!

Edit

dammit, that was only funny if it was the very next post.

Damn you Las! *shakes fist*

Well this thread has been moderately insulting towards women, men and the Dakka population. Can we move onto South-East Asia now as they haven't been mentioned yet?

Those people complaining that Dakka is a hive of scum and villainy - perhaps it is, and if so, go somewhere else and stop your holier-than-thou muck-slinging.

Or perhaps it's just your opinion because you're the issue and others react to it. Either way, hush.

 Azreal13 wrote:
He got banned on Warseer!

Anyone worth talking to have been banned from Warseer .

Can I play the card that is "If you're not playing the current edition you shouldn't be on a forum discussing it" but replaced with "If you don't like how the moderators do things on a forum, you shouldn't be on it"?

But as far as community's go Dakka is pretty good, things can get a little bit heated when people have opposing views, but where don't things get heated?

 Mozzyfuzzy wrote:
Can I play the card that is "If you're not playing the current edition you shouldn't be on a forum discussing it" but replaced with "If you don't like how the moderators do things on a forum, you shouldn't be on it"?

But as far as community's go Dakka is pretty good, things can get a little bit heated when people have opposing views, but where don't things get heated?

Well, that's sort of the point...where DON'T things get heated? Because she'd really like to go to that place instead. A place where someone says *thing you don't agree with* and the default response is "cool, I like hearing other people's thoughts and ideas on this thing we both love! Thanks for sharing!" instead of "Here are all the reasons you're wrong and should feel bad for being so wrong."

Maybe this sounds sort of weirdly, impossibly idealistic, but that's the sort of environment on the penpalling and book club forums that she belongs to. Her experience is that a more positive atmosphere correlates with a larger number of women being involved, but if there's a way to find that on dakka or a similar "mainstream" forum, that would be awesome too.

Is there any interest in trying to find/make a "safe space" somewhere on dakka? Even just a thread that the mods agree to police a little more intensively or for which slightly stricter rules are applied?

Evil INC, I'm curious, can you maybe link some examples from the forum to illustrate what you're saying? I wouldn't call the general environment on dakka "pleasant" much of the time, but aside from one particular moderator I wouldn't say that the sort of thing you describe is characteristic of the forums, even here...but maybe I'm missing it. The mods piling on at least...the first bit is a little uncomfortably familiar...

EVIL is notorious for making these sorts of accusation in all sorts of threads, dude, and then spectacularly failing to back them up.

Generally because they haven't happened, or a seed has been taken and blown out of all proportion.

It's kind of his schtich, and what prompted my "this thread's been EVILed" comment.

Try 4dchan

DaKKaLAnce wrote:
Try 4dchan

I'm impressed we made it to page 4 before someone tried this joke...at least I assume it's a joke. And that the "d" is a typo, which spoils it somewhat...

It's not exactly a typo

http://1d4chan.org/

NO!

- Mean Boys

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
He got banned on Warseer!

Anyone worth talking to have been banned from Warseer .

They ban anyone who says anything negative about GW. They have more banned members than they do active ones. lol
Azreal13, your later statement is untrue.

office_waaagh wrote:


Evil INC, I'm curious, can you maybe link some examples from the forum to illustrate what you're saying?

Yes, agreed - I'm curious too.

Some links would be helpful!

Thanks!

 EVIL INC wrote:

Azreal13, your later statement is untrue.

PROVE IT

I LOVE 1d4! I also like fatguys.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
He got banned on Warseer!

Anyone worth talking to have been banned from Warseer .

But I haven't gotten banned.

Probably because I rarely post there, but still.

Their ban list is huge. Likely larger than their active list. hats one of the issues the OP's wife will have trouble on many forums.
A forum will develop an "attitude' towards it's subject matter and it's most vocal and influential members will act in an aggressive manner towards anyone who does not follow the same train of thought. Much like extreme political party wing members.
Warseer is an ultra pro GW site so anyone who has the temerity to post anything negative gets "the treatment". Regardless of anything positive that they may also say.Here is mu the same only the polaity is reversed and itis aforum that is super highly critical and negative towards GW and it is those who ave an occasional positive comment who gets "the treatment".
People like myself who have both positive and negative comment to make about GW oft find ourselves on the outside wherever we go.
GW has had both good and bad times over the decades and ade both good and bad decisions. I is a com pany made up of human bengs.I give them credit were it is due but a also more thn willing to razz on them when they make a mistake.

I stick around several forums to talk about the game that has been a large part of y life since the 80s (early 80s in the case of roleplaying and D&D. I lurk more often than not just gathering information and learning (I constantly find myself learning new tidbits and advice in terms of game play and also about the rules) but will also post when I have an experience to share in hopes that it may help someone out.

Except Dakka doesn't ban people who say GW is alright. Its more of a smug pat on the head and a polite "thats nice"

Except Dakka doesn't ban people who say GW is alright. Its more of a smug pat on the head and a polite "thats nice"

condecending and patronising behaviors can be just as bad as total rejection in some cases.

epronovost wrote:
Except Dakka doesn't ban people who say GW is alright. Its more of a smug pat on the head and a polite "thats nice"

condecending and patronising behaviors can be just as bad as total rejection in some cases.

Combine that with "the treatment" and you have what was mentioned earlier.

But the thread is not designed to be a bash this site or bash that site thread and I apologize for adding to that topic. Know that anything I post on the subject is intended as constructive criticism. As I am not intending to incite a flame war, i have not posted links or "named names" (why am I suddenly reminded of a seinfeld episode lol). The past is the past and I offered the constructive criticism as others have done to try to help people look at their own actions (myself included) and help the place become more positive so that it could be welcoming to new people such as the OPs wife.

Loborocket wrote:
I think the mods here could do a better job on controlling the negativity, but that is just my opinion.

We could. But we don't. Because 'controlling' the negativity isn't our job.

Dakka is a venue for discussion. Free and open discussion doesn't happen if people aren't allowed to post their opinions.

We do what we can to control the way people choose to express that opinion where necessary, in an effort to keep things civil and on-track. But 'policing' opinions just because a segment of the community disagrees with them? That's not going to happen.

Exactly opinions should NOT be policed and I would be unhappy if they were. Differences of opinion are there because we are human. If we ALL had the same opinion, we would be nothing more than drones with a hive mind. The only thing that should be policed in that regard are the ways in which they are put forth in order to keep it polite and civil and ensure that everyone has the right to express theirs in a polite and civil fashion without having impolite and uncivil responses. I've seen many others besides myself display the the good example here and I give them definite props. There ARE good people here just as there are good people on all of the forums. It's just usually a few who give the different places a bad name and can cause a cloud of negativity.

 insaniak wrote:
We could. But we don't. Because 'controlling' the negativity isn't our job.

Dakka is a venue for discussion. Free and open discussion doesn't happen if people aren't allowed to post their opinions.

We do what we can to control the way people choose to express that opinion where necessary, in an effort to keep things civil and on-track. But 'policing' opinions just because a segment of the community disagrees with them? That's not going to happen.

The reason that I'm very hesitant to recommend dakka to her isn't because people have opinions that I or she might disagree with, and I hope that's not the idea that I've conveyed. But the characteristics of the dakka boards that I don't like and she wouldn't like are centred around when and how those opinions are expressed. I have observed a tendency for people to enter threads regardless of the topic being discussed and turn it into "GW can't write balanced rules because they're all stupid monsters etc", and it would really upset her to have a post she writes about how much she loves some new model or other get replied to by five people saying "the rules for it are bad and if you like it you should feel bad".

People here, with apologies for generalizing, tend to jump down each others' throats over relatively trivial disagreements. It is difficult to find a conversation thread of any significant length that doesn't get at least temporarily hijacked by two people or camps taking shots at each other; a particular incident from a couple of months ago sticks out in my memory during which a debate over the merits of a 5 point grot orderly got rather out of hand. It just started with one fellow saying his grot orderly saved his warboss and won him a game, and someone else replied that a grot orderly was a poor use of the points and he was foolish for taking it, and that if he was in a position to need it he was a poor tactician to boot. It escalated significantly from there. None of this was expressed in an overtly rude manner, but it was unmistakably confrontational and hostile in tone. No good faith or good will was presumed on behalf of either party. I seriously doubt either participant considered it a pleasant experience or really gained anything from the exchange. What started as a harmless anecdote about a grot orderly saving the day turned into a pretty vicious argument that nevertheless did not strictly speaking violate the forum rules.

Contrast this with most of the online groups she belongs to. If a similar situation arose, typical behaviour would be to either a) accept that someone has a different opinion and not think much of it, or b) offer a suggestion for improvement phrased as "hey, have you thought about *alternative proposal* instead? I tried it and it worked great! And it has *feature that recommends it as a superior option*. Let me know if it works for you!"

Thanks again for the suggestions everyone. She's joined the tyranids facebook group as well as the Overlords group, so if you're a member and you see a new member named Sadie please say "hi" and make her feel welcome! She's nervous about being in the "boys' space" so sending her a little love will really make her day.

Thanks again!

office_waaagh wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
We could. But we don't. Because 'controlling' the negativity isn't our job.

Dakka is a venue for discussion. Free and open discussion doesn't happen if people aren't allowed to post their opinions.

We do what we can to control the way people choose to express that opinion where necessary, in an effort to keep things civil and on-track. But 'policing' opinions just because a segment of the community disagrees with them? That's not going to happen.

The reason that I'm very hesitant to recommend dakka to her isn't because people have opinions that I or she might disagree with, and I hope that's not the idea that I've conveyed. But the characteristics of the dakka boards that I don't like and she wouldn't like are centred around when and how those opinions are expressed. I have observed a tendency for people to enter threads regardless of the topic being discussed and turn it into "GW can't write balanced rules because they're all stupid monsters etc", and it would really upset her to have a post she writes about how much she loves some new model or other get replied to by five people saying "the rules for it are bad and if you like it you should feel bad".

People here, with apologies for generalizing, tend to jump down each others' throats over relatively trivial disagreements. It is difficult to find a conversation thread of any significant length that doesn't get at least temporarily hijacked by two people or camps taking shots at each other; a particular incident from a couple of months ago sticks out in my memory during which a debate over the merits of a 5 point grot orderly got rather out of hand. It just started with one fellow saying his grot orderly saved his warboss and won him a game, and someone else replied that a grot orderly was a poor use of the points and he was foolish for taking it, and that if he was in a position to need it he was a poor tactician to boot. It escalated significantly from there. None of this was expressed in an overtly rude manner, but it was unmistakably confrontational and hostile in tone. No good faith or good will was presumed on behalf of either party. I seriously doubt either participant considered it a pleasant experience or really gained anything from the exchange. What started as a harmless anecdote about a grot orderly saving the day turned into a pretty vicious argument that nevertheless did not strictly speaking violate the forum rules.

Contrast this with most of the online groups she belongs to. If a similar situation arose, typical behaviour would be to either a) accept that someone has a different opinion and not think much of it, or b) offer a suggestion for improvement phrased as "hey, have you thought about *alternative proposal* instead? I tried it and it worked great! And it has *feature that recommends it as a superior option*. Let me know if it works for you!"

Thanks again for the suggestions everyone. She's joined the tyranids facebook group as well as the Overlords group, so if you're a member and you see a new member named Sadie please say "hi" and make her feel welcome! She's nervous about being in the "boys' space" so sending her a little love will really make her day.

Thanks again!

Insaniak, thanks for taking the time to respond. To bad about content of the response, "We could, but we don't." That is the problem with this forum, that exact attitude. I realize that is your and other mod decisions to make and not mine, but the OP, myself, and at least one other person posting to this thread think the "We could, but we don't" attitude from the mods makes this forum not as good as it could be.

I think the post above is a pretty good example of how things go in threads sometimes.

Perhaps my critisism about mods here not controlling the "negative" tone is not exactly what I mean. How about this for constructive critisism, using the above example from office_wagggh. The mods of this board could do a better job of keeping threads "civil and on track". In my opinion this is not the case way to often and it sets the wrong tone for the forum as a whole. It makes it feel negative an un-inviting for some users. So in the spirit of constructive critisism, "We could, but we don't" does not cut it for me. You SHOULD try harder. It WOULD make this forum a better place for the 40k community.

Its not the Mods job, nor should it be, to make sure everything is positive.

This forum is set up so everyone can disseminate their opinion, as long as they don't make personal attacks or violate other rules.

You're basically asking for Mods to stop people from hurting each others feelings. That is not only an impossible task, but its also a pointless one.

Loborocket wrote:
Insaniak, thanks for taking the time to respond. To bad about content of the response, "We could, but we don't." That is the problem with this forum, that exact attitude.

Really?

We could delete every second post made by randomly selected posters. We don't.

We could delete posts from anybody posting from a town with a name that starts with a 'C'. We don't.

We could delete any post that is critical of the site's moderation. We don't.

We could only allow people to post between the hours of 3 and 4 am, on a tuesday, while wearing a tshirt with Oreos glued to it. We don't.


There are any number of things that we could do that would actively discourage open discussion on these boards. Stifling people with a negative opinion of something that other people like is just one of those things.


Speaking as someone who has been a member on forums that squash people with a view different to that of the site's owners, I can say from experience that these are not the shiny, apple-scented places that you seem to expect.

Perhaps my critisism about mods here not controlling the "negative" tone is not exactly what I mean. How about this for constructive critisism, using the above example from office_wagggh. The mods of this board could do a better job of keeping threads "civil and on track". In my opinion this is not the case way to often and it sets the wrong tone for the forum as a whole. It makes it feel negative an un-inviting for some users. So in the spirit of constructive critisism, "We could, but we don't" does not cut it for me. You SHOULD try harder. It WOULD make this forum a better place for the 40k community.

Sure, if you change the claim, the response to the previous claim is suddenly unsatisfactory.

Here's the thing about the forum's 'negative tone': The conversation that takes place on this forum, insofar as it fits within the forum's posting rules, is dictated by you, the posters. Not by the moderation staff.

As I point out every time the 'negativity' issue rears its ugly head, if you want to see more positive discussion on the forums, all you have to do is engage in more positive discussion on the forums.


But the board having a 'negative tone' and posters lacking civility are two completely separate issues. If you're seeing posts that you feel are inappropriate, there are two likely possibilities - one is that we haven't seen them, and the other is that we don't think those particular posts are a problem.

For the former, some stuff slides simply because people don't bother to report them. We can't see every post in every thread... the site is just too big for that to be feasible. If more people just hit the yellow triangle instead of responding in kind, this wouldn't be as big an issue.

For the latter, well, different people have different opinions on just when the line into rudenessville has been crossed, and that opinion is quite often situational. That's a large part of why all moderator action is logged and reviewed by the other moderators... to make sure we're all drawing that line in more or less the same place. Whether or not you personally agree with where we choose to draw that line, well, that's another matter entirely.

At least for Daemons (and all things powerarmour) i can recommend Bolter&Chainsword. People there are very friendly. Not that Dakka is unfriendly (it certainly isnt!) but for somewhat more, erm, sensitive souls, B&C is a safe place

 insaniak wrote:
Whether or not you personally agree with where we choose to draw that line, well, that's another matter entirely.

Yes I think where the moderation team draws the line is in the wrong place. Take that for what it is worth.

Your lengthy response to me and the "tone" it seems to read with is a pretty good example of how Mod behavior contributes to the problem. You could have very easily NOT responded to my critisisim, or just simply said, "Thanks for the input, the moderation team will consider it." Instead you go on and on with hyperbolic examples of what you "could" do making my constructive input seem simply ridiculous and out of place.

To me this is a fine example of how moderation of this forum is not as good as it could be.

Simply starting off a response with "Really?" Is kind of rude.

So not only would you prefer anyone with something negative to say not post, you also want the mod team to be emotionless robots, who can't convey their own opinion on subjects? lolwat.

And apparently would prefer a cookie cutter response than someone take the time to explain not only the decision, but the process behind making the decision.

I will take the advice given in the thread and start flagging post I think are rude and cross the line and let the mods do what they will. I have not taken that action in the past but will start. At least it will start to let the moderation team know what I think crosses the line and then they can decide.

Every forum moderates differently, and frankly, that's a good thing.

I see posts on here that, if it were B&C or Necrontyr Online, I'd be smiting freely... but because that's not the culture on Dakka, because Dakka is a place for people to cut loose and share what they really feel without caring about anyone's personal feelings, I don't even bother reporting the mild cases... because people need somewhere like Dakka to air their grievances and argue each other in circles.

In that sense, the mod team do a great job of making sure it doesn't get too out of hand. Directed personal attacks are dealt with, after all, it's only the generalisations that happen to catch some dakkites in the blast radius that are let go.

 insaniak wrote:
Here's the thing about the forum's 'negative tone': The conversation that takes place on this forum, insofar as it fits within the forum's posting rules, is dictated by you, the posters. Not by the moderation staff.

As I point out every time the 'negativity' issue rears its ugly head, if you want to see more positive discussion on the forums, all you have to do is engage in more positive discussion on the forums.

But the board having a 'negative tone' and posters lacking civility are two completely separate issues. If you're seeing posts that you feel are inappropriate, there are two likely possibilities - one is that we haven't seen them, and the other is that we don't think those particular posts are a problem.

To be clear, there is no criticism of the moderation of the boards here expressed or implied; that isn't my intent. As Insaniak correctly points out, if we all want a more civil and pleasant tone, then we should all start being more civil and pleasant. The mod staff do a difficult job, and among their many crosses to bear is that nobody will ever appreciate what they do because either way they are likely to make someone unhappy. It's a tough and thankless job that is done on a volunteer basis (I assume) by people out of genuine passion for the hobby and the community, and there is no "right answer" about where to draw the line between freedom of expression and protecting people from offense. Even if we don't agree with the moderation decisions, I hope we can all sympathize with the difficult position the mods are in; they are, after all, people too, just like us, and they do their best at a hard job, just like us.

I'll give another example of what I mean in my comment above, though, from another thread on this forum: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/632496.page#7534025

Martel732 wrote:

 EVIL INC wrote:
Think of it being akin to counting cards when you play blackjack (after all, your just doing the math to figure statistical probabilities). There is nothing written in the rules to stop you. So of course, the casinos in Vegas wont mind if you do it.

In my eyes, it goes against the spirit of the game. Of course, thats my opinion. Its one thing to eyeball it and figure "yeah, my guy doesnt stand a chance if he assaults this unit but he might do some damage oer there" and another to whip out the calculator. But if my opponent chooses to do so, thats up to them and I wont tell them they cant.

There is no spirit to this game other than the spirit of GW getting mad stacks of cash.

The topic of the thread is "Do statistics matter?". There is nothing that makes a reply of "GW sucks" a reasonable or appropriate response to the matter under discussion, and I assume we can predict where the thread will go from there. It's not that people have these opinions, or even that they express them. It's that they actively derail or redirect other conversations and ambush the people that are having a good time and just want to talk about the game. I don't mean to suggest that this is a mod issue necessarily, but it would be nice to find a place where it doesn't happen to hang out in. Don't get me wrong; when dakka is good, it's great, but the high chaff-to-wheat ratio on some of the sub-forums makes it hard to find those good bits sometimes.

In your given example, the best course of action for anyone involved is to report it via the yellow Triangle of Friendship, and subsequently ignore it (and perhaps also the poster via the Ignore function). The trouble begins when someone either reports it and subsequently starts picking at the thread the poster left before the report can be dealt with--often ending badly--or when someone doesn't report it and just picks away instead--often ending even more badly.

From my own point of view, were I a Mod, the example comment doesn't break any rules, and so I wouldn't exactly feel justified in swooping in. What I would hope happens instead is that people would see it's a discussion that would go nowhere and be completely unproductive, and they would ignore it. Unfortunately, that rarely happens, and so unless I watch the thread 24/7--which, being not only a volunteer, but also (mostly) human, I'd find difficult--I'd have to wait until someone brought something rule-breaking to my attention via PM or the report function. Similarly to above, however, I'd hazard a guess at saying it rarely happens when it should.

The only other option would be to post a general 'warning' that people should avoid dragging the thread off-topic, but having been here for over 4 years, I've seen that those warnings are all too often ignored.

Outside of that, it's up to the denizens of the forum to choose whether or not they're going to be civil. Moderation is very much a reactive action, and for all the flak the mods receive, at the very basic level, it's down to how the members of the community behave. There would be no cause to criticise mods for how they do their job if their job didn't need to be done in the first place.

I think anyone can come to Dakka's 40k community and have a good time. There are just a couple of things I would avoid:

1) Getting too caught up in "You Make da Call"- that place is something like the British House of Parliament arguing over laws, it can get very aggressive and people have strong opinions on the rules.

2) Posting in 40k tactics without the proper knowledge on a topic. People get called out on a topic, but it's usually because they're wrong about some part of the details. Sometimes, it goes back to interpretation and you go back to (1), but a lot of times it's because poster made generalizations that frustrate other people. To me, that's fine, people should be called when they say wrong things and should make sure that what they're posting pertaining is accurate. I have certainly learned a lot about being properly informed before making points.

3) Siding one way or the other over the state of 40k and GW- this one is more contentious. 40k has been going through what I consider to be a significant upheaval in the customer base due to a lot of the decisions the company has made for the game. This includes pricing and rules significantly, and obviously there is a lot of passion that goes into this topic because of all the work people have put into their armies. As long as you don't engage in this topic, then you're particularly fine. This of course swings both ways, some posters like to go on about how 40k is the best thing since sliced bread while others feel that it's a honking mess. But if you don't engage this topic one way of the other, you won't have trouble.

Dakka overall is a great board, I don't find it any more rough and tumble than any other place on the internet. And it's popular because people are free to express their thoughts and feelings about topics however they choose, providing of course they refrain from insulting others. The mods here are great about giving topics their breadth so they can breathe and run their course, and only apply the brakes when things swing wildly. I think these things are big reasons why Dakka is one of the biggest wargaming (40k included!) forums out there.

I think Dakka Dakka is an amazing place of freedom and discussion, but that's not without its cost. For more freedom, there is always the chance of negativity. I think the mods do a good job, stepping in only when truly necessary, even if its just a "Hey, guys, remember to keep it down." I've even had to PM some mods privately and report other users when they've crossed the line, and the mods have always treated it quickly and fairly.

 DarkLink wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:

 EVIL INC wrote:

I'd suggest staying offline altogether lol. There is only one site I've seen to fit the bill in terms of being friendly and welcoming to everyone and thats Bell of Lost Souls. Some of the facebook groups re also pretty good. The Overlords is pretty good there.

Wow, you just recommended BoLS Trolls as a nice place?! I disagree. Dakkadakka certainly isn't the answer to the question either, but I like it that way.

I'd recommend the ICs forums. Kind people, more focus on narrative play, tends to be positive... #tuttletime

http://www.theindependentcharacters.com/forums/

Kinda funny to hear someone on Dakka criticize BoLS for troll behavior... though I guess if you're referring to BoLS frontpage rather than the forums, it would make sense.

The BoLS forums are probably about as female friendly as you can get. Not only are a number of top posters openly female, but there are several running threads on feminism and lgbt issues in the off-topic. Granted, if you're a guy, and you say anything that could remotely be construed as theoretically possibly being sexist in some conceivable way, Eldargal will flame the gak out of you, but her ire is only directed at guys. Or white people, I guess, if it's about a race issue like Ferguson, but even then it's really only white guys... huh, I kinda do see what you mean about trolls .

I feel like if you spend time in any off-topic forum these days you're going to find the social justice trolls. Heck, they troll up General Discussion and Background any chance they get. Everything is a battle for those kinds of people though, and if they can't find one, they'll make one.

Such is the Interwebs though. I said this almost fifteen years ago, and it's even more true now than it was back then. The Internet has given any idiot a voice, and every idiot has chosen to use it.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
... because Dakka is a place for people to cut loose and share what they really feel without caring about anyone's personal feelings...

That's not actually what Dakka is about at all. Hence Rule #1.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

office_waaagh wrote:
The topic of the thread is "Do statistics matter?". There is nothing that makes a reply of "GW sucks" a reasonable or appropriate response to the matter under discussion,... .

Well, yes and no. In context, someone responding to a comment about the ' spirit of the game ' with their opinion on said ' spirit ' is, while not strictly on topic with the main discussion, an on -topic response to the statement just made.

In those sorts of cases, we would generally leave it alone unless it was rude or particularly inflammatory, and would just post a request to get back on topic if the thread wanders off on that tangent while there is still discussion available on the original topic.

Threads do often wander around through several different topics, and we also like to allow a certain amount of freedom for people to have fun with the discussion (so an occasional ' joke ' post is acceptable even if it's slightly off -topic, so long as it doesn't de-rail the thread).

It's easy to look at a thread afterwards and say ' yeah, the mods should have stepped in right there '... assuming any of the mods are even online and looking at that thread at the time... But it's not always as simple to look at a single post and predict the sort of response it will trigger. We're human, and sometimes we get it wrong... but that doesn't mean we're endorsing the ensuing nonsense, just that in that particular instance, with the benefit of hindsight, that thread should have been more closely watched.

At the end of the day, though, the general tone of the forum is not something that the mods can control. Not without some fairly heavy -handed application of censorship... At which point we would be getting criticised for not letting people speak their minds.

As someone who mods on another (albeit smaller than it used to be board) modding is a giant pain in the ass. There is a lot that goes on behind the scenes and often discussions on what should or shouldn't be allowed will occur. Considering Dakka's size I've always felt that the mod team does a pretty good job handling it all around.

That said, even if they wanted to steer the board towards being more positive (without resorting to Soviet Russia levels of censorship) the user base will ultimately determine the tone of the board. And if the users don't like the tone they find another place to visit.

And OP, and I mean this in the nicest possible way my former-Army self can say it (and if it still sounds rude, I apologize, I'm used to explaining things to grunts and swearing a lot more): honestly your SO is an adult. And as such at some point you need to let her take that step out into the frightening reality that the internet isn't always the nicest place on earth. And if she can't handle even the slightest bit of negativity then the internet isn't the place for her.

Either she needs to take that risk and try some places out, or at least look around and see what she likes, or probably not bother with the internet. There isn't really a lot of middle ground on this kind of thing. Either she'll be tough enough to handle the occasional jerk or she won't be.

As someone who is an Internet forum regular in many places and on many different topics I have to say that IMO heavy-handed moderation doesn't work as intended.

Heavily moderated forums seem nicer places at first sight, but if you stick around long enough you usualky realize they're not really the best venues for free speech. A guy who posts against the general opinion of the forum often gets beaten down with sheer volume of disagreement, flaming, provocation and whatnot.Past a certain point it's difficult to neither pack up and leave or respond in kind. In a place with strict moderation this means most dissenting voices are silenced sooner rather than later.

As such, I prefer places like this one, where discussions are allowed to flow more freely.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
But I haven't gotten banned.

Do not worry, I trust in you. You will be able to make it!

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
I feel like if you spend time in any off-topic forum these days you're going to find the social justice trolls. Heck, they troll up General Discussion and Background any chance they get. Everything is a battle for those kinds of people though, and if they can't find one, they'll make one.

Such is the Interwebs though. I said this almost fifteen years ago, and it's even more true now than it was back then. The Internet has given any idiot a voice, and every idiot has chosen to use it.

A single manly tear is rolling down my cheek as I ponder the terrible burden those horrible people have put on you. And you have not yet killed a single one of them? You truly are a saint! I should build you a shrine.

As noted, the user base determines the tone of the board. If you want mods to make it a happier, cheerier place, then they have to censor people's opinions, which isn't good for anyone.

Dakka does a great job of allowing users to do their thing while maintaining civility without being overly intrusive or absent.. Similarly, the comments regarding Warseer are notably out of line, I've been posting there for going on nine years now, I've done things that got mod attention, and in those cases in hindsight I can probably say I was out of line and the Mod's actions were reasonable.

If you want an example of a micro-managed board with extensive levels of mod interaction, they exist, but the Mods in such cases are often the least pleasant and most disuptive members, and they tend to be far more hostile to certain views and content than a board like this. Again, if you want such an exmaple, the Reddit warhammer board will show exactly what I mean, with routine public mod drama that far outstrips anything Dakka has ever seen, with subscribing population 1/3rd that of Dakka's.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
And OP, and I mean this in the nicest possible way my former-Army self can say it (and if it still sounds rude, I apologize, I'm used to explaining things to grunts and swearing a lot more): honestly your SO is an adult. And as such at some point you need to let her take that step out into the frightening reality that the internet isn't always the nicest place on earth. And if she can't handle even the slightest bit of negativity then the internet isn't the place for her.

Either she needs to take that risk and try some places out, or at least look around and see what she likes, or probably not bother with the internet. There isn't really a lot of middle ground on this kind of thing. Either she'll be tough enough to handle the occasional jerk or she won't be.

My friend, you need not fear offending me with bluntness - I've been an infanteer (we don't say "infantryman" in Canada anymore, incidentally) for nearly thirteen years now. The army reserves have paid for nearly all of my ten-plus years of education at the small cost of four months per year and a free trip to the desert with a machine gun (yaaay Kandahar...). I've been on the receiving and delivering end of many an "explanation" and I've developed a pretty thick skin.

I hope that I'm not giving the impression that I've decided for her that dakka isn't going to be a good place for her, or that I'm speaking on her behalf. We're reading the thread together, and she reads my responses before I post them. I'm just writing the posts for consistency of language and tone, to avoid confusion, and because I already have an account on the site.

She's a well-seasoned traveller of the internet, as well - she has a blog, she's on twitter, Facebook, and a variety of other social websites and forums. But her blog is about her career and the people that read it are mostly professional translators, and that accounts for most of her twitter interactions as well. Facebook tends to keep things civil since most people use their real names. It's not like she unaware that people can be mean on the internet; she'd just like to avoid people being mean to her where possible. The idea that putting up with abuse is just the price of entry to the internet is mistaken, I think; none of the other forums or groups she belongs to has a culture that accepts that sort of thing. Dakka may be one of the nicer wargaming forums out there, or "male-dominated geek-subject" forums in general (pardon the expression), but by the standards of most hobby or craft groups it's a bit more on the "angrily denouncing each other" side than she is looking for.

She expressed some of her reservations to me yesterday (on our way to GW, actually) along the lines of "what if they all laugh at me for asking stupid questions?", "what if they think I'm a poser or a 'fake geek girl'?", "what if this is where they come to get away from their wives/girlfriends and I'm spoiling their safe place for them?", etc. But she's started posting a little bit on the tyranids Facebook page, and she's slowly working her courage up to creating a dakka account so she can at least check out the P&M forums. Thank you once again to everyone for all the helpful suggestions and interesting comments.

 insaniak wrote:

Loborocket wrote:
I think the mods here could do a better job on controlling the negativity, but that is just my opinion.

We could. But we don't. Because 'controlling' the negativity isn't our job.

Dakka is a venue for discussion. Free and open discussion doesn't happen if people aren't allowed to post their opinions.

We do what we can to control the way people choose to express that opinion where necessary, in an effort to keep things civil and on-track. But 'policing' opinions just because a segment of the community disagrees with them? That's not going to happen.

Clearly drunk on power!

As noted, Not a single person here cares if they are disagreed with. Differences of opinion are not even art of the equation. what IS being discussed is the behavior of the people who are disagreeing.
A poster can disagree with someone by just making a post that shows their opinion. Anyone who reads both posts will plainly be able to see the difference of opinion and the 2 separate people whose opinions differ do not need to even interact at all.
What we are talking about is the impolite and rude confrontations and baiting, sniping and so forth which break rule #1 of the site itself (or combinations f the rules including spam by posting insulting pictures and other non-topic posts). THIS is what needs to be addressed. Just because the one breaking the rules shares the same opinion as the mod on whatever gaming issue is being "discussed" should not mean that the person breaking rule #1 should get away with the behavior. Nor should it mean that when the person who holds the differing opinion on the gaming issue and is actually following the rules mentions that he thinks the behavior breaks rule #1 have action taken against him for politely posting his opinion on that separate topic while the instigator gets off scott free chalking up another successful campaign.

 EVIL INC wrote:
As noted, Not a single person here cares if they are disagreed with. Differences of opinion are not even art of the equation. what IS being discussed is the behavior of the people who are disagreeing.
A poster can disagree with someone by just making a post that shows their opinion. Anyone who reads both posts will plainly be able to see the difference of opinion and the 2 separate people whose opinions differ do not need to even interact at all.
What we are talking about is the impolite and rude confrontations and baiting, sniping and so forth which break rule #1 of the site itself (or combinations f the rules including spam by posting insulting pictures and other non-topic posts). THIS is what needs to be addressed. Just because the one breaking the rules shares the same opinion as the mod on whatever gaming issue is being "discussed" should not mean that the person breaking rule #1 should get away with the behavior. Nor should it mean that when the person who holds the differing opinion on the gaming issue and is actually following the rules mentions that he thinks the behavior breaks rule #1 have action taken against him for politely posting his opinion on that separate topic while the instigator gets off scott free chalking up another successful campaign.

Examples?

With links?

Forgive me, but you've saddled yourself with an extraordinary burden of proof in these matters for me since you accused someone of posting sexually explicit language because they said something sucked (as in "not very good")

 Azreal13 wrote:

 EVIL INC wrote:
As noted, Not a single person here cares if they are disagreed with. Differences of opinion are not even art of the equation. what IS being discussed is the behavior of the people who are disagreeing.
A poster can disagree with someone by just making a post that shows their opinion. Anyone who reads both posts will plainly be able to see the difference of opinion and the 2 separate people whose opinions differ do not need to even interact at all.
What we are talking about is the impolite and rude confrontations and baiting, sniping and so forth which break rule #1 of the site itself (or combinations f the rules including spam by posting insulting pictures and other non-topic posts). THIS is what needs to be addressed. Just because the one breaking the rules shares the same opinion as the mod on whatever gaming issue is being "discussed" should not mean that the person breaking rule #1 should get away with the behavior. Nor should it mean that when the person who holds the differing opinion on the gaming issue and is actually following the rules mentions that he thinks the behavior breaks rule #1 have action taken against him for politely posting his opinion on that separate topic while the instigator gets off scott free chalking up another successful campaign.

Examples?

With links?

Forgive me, but you've saddled yourself with an extraordinary burden of proof in these matters for me since you accused someone of posting sexually explicit language because they said something sucked (as in "not very good")

Agreed. What few bad examples I've seen were quickly dealt with by the mods.

 EVIL INC wrote:
A quote from someone else earlier that is relevant.

 RunicFIN wrote:
( for reasons someone will surely want me to list after this post while simultaneously being completely aware of them. )

if you want listings of links to threads where poor behavior has been exhibited or where people have broken rules over say, for the last five years, you are simply going to have to search through them yourself. I am simply not going to do that sort of work and sifting. Your fully aware of it and if by some miricle you have not seen it or are unaware of it and honestly do not believe it has occurred (lol), then dont believe it.
We are discussing this as a general topic, not listing details and naming names. Besides thread necromancy is against the rules and I have gone this many years without breaking them. I'm not going to start now.

You don't need to post in a thread to do a link to it. Its as simple as Copy-paste the URL.

And yes, you are the one claiming that these threads and posts exist. You'll need to provide a link to them, burden of proof is on you.

You claim he is "fully aware" of these threads. Again, what proof do you have of this?

 EVIL INC wrote:
As noted, Not a single person here cares if they are disagreed with. Differences of opinion are not even art of the equation. what IS being discussed is the behavior of the people who are disagreeing.
A poster can disagree with someone by just making a post that shows their opinion. Anyone who reads both posts will plainly be able to see the difference of opinion and the 2 separate people whose opinions differ do not need to even interact at all.
What we are talking about is the impolite and rude confrontations and baiting, sniping and so forth which break rule #1 of the site itself (or combinations f the rules including spam by posting insulting pictures and other non-topic posts). THIS is what needs to be addressed. Just because the one breaking the rules shares the same opinion as the mod on whatever gaming issue is being "discussed" should not mean that the person breaking rule #1 should get away with the behavior. Nor should it mean that when the person who holds the differing opinion on the gaming issue and is actually following the rules mentions that he thinks the behavior breaks rule #1 have action taken against him for politely posting his opinion on that separate topic while the instigator gets off scott free chalking up another successful campaign.

 EVIL INC wrote:
A quote from someone else earlier that is relevant.

 RunicFIN wrote:
( for reasons someone will surely want me to list after this post while simultaneously being completely aware of them. )

if you want listings of links to threads where poor behavior has been exhibited or where people have broken rules over say, for the last five years, you are simply going to have to search through them yourself. I am simply not going to do that sort of work and sifting. Your fully aware of it and if by some miricle you have not seen it or are unaware of it and honestly do not believe it has occurred (lol), then dont believe it.
We are discussing this as a general topic, not listing details and naming names. Besides thread necromancy is against the rules and I have gone this many years without breaking them. I'm not going to start now.

Oh, this old gem again, and once more wrapped in the ludicrous idea that by providing evidence, you'll be breaking rules.

This is the second thread where I've personally (I'm not sure how many time's it's happened in total) seen you called upon to back up your claims, and you fail to deliver, the first being because it'd be "impolite to call them [the posters asking for proof] stupid" and "[I'm] Not going to break the rules by being so impolite as to treat them like they are unable to do so [find the evidence themselves] and [I'm] not going to spam the thread with hundreds (or even thousands) of links"--these are direct quotes, and unlike EVIL I am more than happy to provide links to the posts they came from on request, as well as the thread they were in, to provide context (that I believe unnecessary, as the subject EVIL was refusing to back-up his views on doesn't particularly matter, only the fact that he is consistent with his behaviour of dodging the burden of proof). Your repeated lack of willingness to back up your claims ended in a public warning (as above, proof available on request). Are you absolutely sure that you willingly want to repeat this? Because you really cannot complain if it happens again.

Not sure if it's been brought up OP, but there is an ignore button on Dakka.

You can put people you don't think you'll be able to have a civil discussion with on ignore.

To be fair, it has gotten better lately and Alpharius, I give you guys props on that. I have hit the yellow triangle more so and seen discreet action taken. of course, being "outside", i have only seen posts disappear or red letter editing without know what was done to prevent further behavior but That is not my concern. I have been glad to see something was done.
I think it is on the right track but these things take time and as you said, you cant be everywhere all the time.

For the OP, I think this is likely part of the issue with the larger forums. The mods /admins are so outnumbered by members that stuff falls through the cracks. It could be that a smaller "fireside chat" community would be preferable for your wife. If she doesnt want to "participate" in the larger ones, she may still want to occasionally lurk though. Even if just to pick up competative tips through reading or rules clarifications. She wouldnt need to post or interact to do those things and they are things she might not get as well in the smaller communities.

Oh, and jreilly89, I have provided proof with a link earlier in the thread. This tip is not directed at you but for anyone who misses something in a thread. It helps to actually read the entirety of the posts within a thread instead of just skimming the high points to pick out the parts you want to see.

 EVIL INC wrote:
To be fair, it has gotten better lately and Alpharius, I give you guys props on that. I have hit the yellow triangle more so and seen discreet action taken. of course, being "outside", i have only seen posts disappear or red letter editing without know what was done to prevent further behavior but That is not my concern. I have been glad to see something was done.
I think it is on the right track but these things take time and as you said, you cant be everywhere all the time.

For the OP, I think this is likely part of the issue with the larger forums. The mods /admins are so outnumbered by members that stuff falls through the cracks. It could be that a smaller "fireside chat" community would be preferable for your wife. If she doesnt want to "participate" in the larger ones, she may still want to occasionally lurk though. Even if just to pick up competative tips through reading or rules clarifications. She wouldnt need to post or interact to do those things and they are things she might not get as well in the smaller communities.

So yet again, you fail to provide proof.

 SilverDevilfish wrote:
Not sure if it's been brought up OP, but there is an ignore button on Dakka.

You can put people you don't think you'll be able to have a civil discussion with on ignore.

This is, of course, excellent advice as well!

Sadly, I forgot to mention it - but thank you SilverDevilfish for bringing it up!

office_waaagh wrote:
"what if they think I'm a poser or a 'fake geek girl'?"

But this does not exists. There are no “real geek girl” and “fake geek girl”. There are women that know and loves geeky stuff, women that are interested in geeky stuff but do not already knows them well (which, incidentally, is a great occasion to help them discover what we are passionate about, so this is a great thing) and everything in-between.

office_waaagh wrote:
"what if this is where they come to get away from their wives/girlfriends and I'm spoiling their safe place for them?"

Wives? Girlfriends? Tell her we are all virgins that live in their parents basement !
…
Okay, maybe there is no need to tell her .

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

office_waaagh wrote:
"what if they think I'm a poser or a 'fake geek girl'?"

But this does not exists. There are no “real geek girl” and “fake geek girl”. There are women that know and loves geeky stuff, women that are interested in geeky stuff but do not already knows them well (which, incidentally, is a great occasion to help them discover what we are passionate about, so this is a great thing) and everything in-between.

office_waaagh wrote:
"what if this is where they come to get away from their wives/girlfriends and I'm spoiling their safe place for them?"

Wives? Girlfriends? Tell her we are all virgins that live in their parents basement !
…
Okay, maybe there is no need to tell her .

That French banner you have makes me automatically assume you are an amazing painter since all of the GD France stuff used to blow everything else out of the water!

So you've got that going for you, which is nice.

I actually do not live in my parents' basement, and I am kind of not really completely virgin anymore, if that was what you meant .
I am an okay/average painter.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I actually do not live in my parents' basement, and I am kind of not really completely virgin anymore, if that was what you meant .
I am an okay/average painter.

Only the French would feel the need to specify a partial loss of virginity :p

What do you mean partial?
[edit]Actually, I think this is a discussion best kept to PM.[/edit]

The thread has held for 6 pages before ending up with partial virginity. Not bad, Dakka, not bad. We're pretty nice people in here.

At which point, it's probably about time for us all to move on. At least partially.