Its alive!!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/832150598/1949-sotr-ii-the-weird-wwii-miniatures-game


I talked to Wendy at Salute yesterday & she confirmed that West Wind will launch the KS ofr SoTR 2 in the next 3 weeks. I will be informed by email closer to the date the exact details & I will keep Dakka updated!
Really looking forward to this one.

Pod cast (at work so haven't listened to it yet):
https://meeples.wordpress.com/2015/05/25/meeples-miniatures-episode-145-west-wind-productions/

In this show we speak to Andy Cooper of West Wind Productions.

We chat about the last two Kickstarter projects that Westwind have run: Empire of the Dead: Requiem and War & Empire, and look forward to their new project – Secrets of the Third Reich II.

We hope you enjoy the show

UPDATE on KS start:

Secrets of the Third Reich has been a huge success since its launch, and there is a loyal following for the game worldwide. Since we launched it, though, players have wanted three things from us. A tighter ruleset, expansion to other theaters, and of course, minis and really cool new Mechs. We've been listening, and the time is now right to launch Secrets II.

The SoTR II Kickstarter campaign begins at 12 noon GMT, this Friday, 5th June. Don't miss it!

Beasts of War have a little video interview with them as well.
http://www.beastsofwar.com/liveblogentry/what-are-west-wind-planning-at-this-years-salute/#comments

If funding is high enough, their will be Americans and Japanese for fighting in the Pacific. I've not played it before, but if the models are cool, I'll definitely pledge a few bucks!

YES!!!!!

Finally! Definitely looking forward to see this

 RobertsMinis wrote:
Beasts of War have a little video interview with them as well.
http://www.beastsofwar.com/liveblogentry/what-are-west-wind-planning-at-this-years-salute/#comments

If funding is high enough, their will be Americans and Japanese for fighting in the Pacific. I've not played it before, but if the models are cool, I'll definitely pledge a few bucks!

Thanks for sharing this link! (@ 2.58)

 RobertsMinis wrote:
Beasts of War have a little video interview with them as well.
http://www.beastsofwar.com/liveblogentry/what-are-west-wind-planning-at-this-years-salute/#comments

If funding is high enough, their will be Americans and Japanese for fighting in the Pacific. I've not played it before, but if the models are cool, I'll definitely pledge a few bucks!

I played SOTR mark 1.

It's probably the most under-rated game. It's ridiculous fun, the minis were nice, the rules were pretty good. Setting is also unbelievably cool.

I may back this.

It's one of those games that always intregued me, even if just for the models. I'll keep my eyes open.

FINALLY is right!!!

Whoo-hoo!

It is about time!

REALLY looking forward to this one... Really!

I have been waiting so long for this!! Defiantly pledging.

So what differentiates this game from the other dozen weird war 2 games out there? There are just so many of them alternately languishing and getting kickstarter reboots that it's genuinely hard to keep track of each.

What are all the other Weird War 2 mini games out there?!?

It might be my favorite genre, so, I'd love to know!

SoTR (and presumably SoTR2) is a lot of fun - they had 'create your own mech' rules in SoTR1, though the rules could be abused...

Sets it apart? Just variations on the Wierdness aspect.
Also, you can play it with whatever level of wierd you desire, from upgunned tech, to Godlike beings and zombies.

The system is different from most "stats" oriented games. Units are set apart by their tech and experience level, which modifies their save abilities.

Almost everything hits on the same numbers in combat, but the more experienced units are better at using cover and concealment to survive.

Plus, they special rules for units, characters etc. The forces usually include some type of "build your own" Super/Character option.

It's generally pretty brutal, and can be a great mashup of tech/supernatural in WW2.

Also, they made some great Historical lists for their Straight up WW2 game that worked perfectly in WWW2.

 Alpharius wrote:
What are all the other Weird War 2 mini games out there?!?

It might be my favorite genre, so, I'd love to know!

SoTR (and presumably SoTR2) is a lot of fun - they had 'create your own mech' rules in SoTR1, though the rules could be abused...

Dust in its three versions, the fantasy german dwarves one being kickstarted few threads down in this same forum, the board gamey one with the Pauli gestapo girl mascot, gear krieg, the one with power armored GI's with baseball bats, and some other one that advertised a ks here a month or two back that I can't recall anything remarkable about...just to list a few whose names mostly escape me.

You even posted in this one!
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/641169.page


This is the other new one.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/646000.page

Three active weird war 2 threads bumped or created in one day... and that doesn't include the ones on life support i mentioned above. I like WeirdW2 as well (the more mech flavors as least) but it just seems like alot recently similar to so many space fleet games coming out all of a sudden.

Ha!

DUST is dead, and War of Wonders and that other one haven't launched yet!

SoTR was 'one of the first' to launch a 'true' tabletop wargame and, for my money, is one of the best, and most fun!

I was interested in SoTR but I could never find anyone to play it with. Hopefully a reboof will make it more noticable.

 Silent Puffin? wrote:
I was interested in SoTR but I could never find anyone to play it with. Hopefully a reboof will make it more noticable.

Yeah - I have the same problem. So far I've only managed 3 games :(
However a few at my local club say they are waiting for SoTR 2 before they commit so here's hoping!

No one seems to have mentioned specifics other than "first!" but what makes this flavor of WeirdW2 special? I know that can easily read as sarcasm but as an early fan of the genre (gear krieg game and dust art) I really don't know.

Again, I'm pretty sure it is the first (and at this point, only?) 'true tabletop wargame' set in Weird War II.

For me, that's important, because every other offering I've seen is NOT an actual tabletop wargame.

You can use any and all 'real' WWII vehicles, as well as infantry, and it has got superheroes, supernatural, and mechs - as well as design your own mech/vehicle rules - though those might not survive into SoTR2.

Ok, Thanks. I'm sub'ed to the thread so we'll see what comes of this as it progresses.

 Alpharius wrote:
Again, I'm pretty sure it is the first (and at this point, only?) 'true tabletop wargame' set in Weird War II.

For me, that's important, because every other offering I've seen is NOT an actual tabletop wargame.

You can use any and all 'real' WWII vehicles, as well as infantry, and it has got superheroes, supernatural, and mechs - as well as design your own mech/vehicle rules - though those might not survive into SoTR2.

Just so you are aware, I think Warlord are linking up with Clockwork Goblin to create a Weird World War game using Bolt Action... Seems to be a genre with plenty of competition at the moment.

 warboss wrote:
No one seems to have mentioned specifics other than "first!" but what makes this flavor of WeirdW2 special? I know that can easily read as sarcasm but as an early fan of the genre (gear krieg game and dust art) I really don't know.

SoTR is I suppose a more serious setting than most WWW2 ones which I consider to be fairly pulpy. There are substantial fantasy elements to be sure but the overriding themes are not thrilling heroics and cartoonish villains (although that sort of idea is referenced in a darkly humourous kind of way on propaganda posters and such) but rather desperate individuals trying to survive in an post-apocalyptic pseudo-Orwellian nightmare. Most countries have lost their capital to the A-bomb or V-Gas (which makes zombies) and many units are no longer operating under any sort of national high command. Some might find it to be a little grimdark for their tastes (it is not just the Axis that are resorting to horror-movie material at this point) but I personally think it is pretty well-done. Also there is no attempt to try and rehabilitate the Nazis which is always nice (I am looking at you, Dust)

from memory sotr was a platoon level game? that individual models didnt actual have stats but rather were defined by their special abilities and weapons/equipment.

I only had limited experience (about 7 games or so) but i remember it being quite fun. can't wait to see what they have in store.

Was Secrets of the Third Reich the one that set in the late 40s/ early 50s?

Yes, it is set in 1949.

 warboss wrote:
So what differentiates this game from the other dozen weird war 2 games out there? There are just so many of them alternately languishing and getting kickstarter reboots that it's genuinely hard to keep track of each.

It is a solid, and established game setting, and the others that came after it scooped them, seriously.


Half of the "Dozen" stole their material from them. The other half wish they would have. the game can go as low or high as you want, not necessarily a IGUG, and it is a smooth, war-game that sweeps very good in the levels you play it in. You can play with as low as 5 models, to 50 or so if you want and it plays pretty much the same throughout.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gasmasked Mook wrote:

 warboss wrote:
No one seems to have mentioned specifics other than "first!" but what makes this flavor of WeirdW2 special? I know that can easily read as sarcasm but as an early fan of the genre (gear krieg game and dust art) I really don't know.

SoTR is I suppose a more serious setting than most WWW2 ones which I consider to be fairly pulpy. There are substantial fantasy elements to be sure but the overriding themes are not thrilling heroics and cartoonish villains (although that sort of idea is referenced in a darkly humourous kind of way on propaganda posters and such) but rather desperate individuals trying to survive in an post-apocalyptic pseudo-Orwellian nightmare. Most countries have lost their capital to the A-bomb or V-Gas (which makes zombies) and many units are no longer operating under any sort of national high command. Some might find it to be a little grimdark for their tastes (it is not just the Axis that are resorting to horror-movie material at this point) but I personally think it is pretty well-done. Also there is no attempt to try and rehabilitate the Nazis which is always nice (I am looking at you, Dust)

This is it, as well, in a nutshell. The Incursion game is a placeholder, and does very well to get you 2 pretty good armies in the mix, quickly. The Gibraltar cave system is good, but you could do just as well on the tabletop with what you get. Plus who doesn't love Ilsa she-wolf in stockings?

Thanks for the explanation. And thanks to Alpharius in another thread, I have another WeirdW2 game to add to the list:

http://www.clockworkgoblinminis.co.uk/downloads.html

Thanks for the link warboss, but can we keep this thread for SoTR only please?
Cheers.

Sure, no worries. Sorry, it's just that the sudden influx of so many in a relatively small subniche got me thinking/searching/posting but it's done.

No problem.

Will they have new heads? Love their bits.

I just hope the casting quality will be a bit better this time around. I love the original SOTR models, but sometimes the casts were just godawful.

Really? I never had any problems... Not saying there weren't I must have just been lucky. Perhaps I should buy a lottery ticket this week after all......

Maybe that was just the resin stuff that was an issue.

The metals seem alright that I've seen.

Come to think of it, didn't I get you some metals Barzam?

You got me the jet mech... which I still need to finish. Some of the German infantry I've bought had great casts, others looked like man-shaped lumps of metal. It seemed very hit and miss with the casting quality.

Didn't you end up with some Incursion stuff as well? Isn't that part of the same game universe?

The metals I've seen at least for that have been nice.

Yes, Incursion is in the same setting.

Rules for the Incursion stuff is included in the doomsday expansion book

I bought some of the Incursion stuff a while back. I use the APE suits as relic Terminator armor in games of 40K (swapping arms and using marine helmets for heads).

Excellent quality castings and great, speedy customer service from the guys at Grindhouse Games.

Really looking forward to this! There's just something about that 'Wolfenstein'-style that makes it a great setting for a wargame.

Have West Wind run any KSs before, and if so how have they been?

Yes - they've done a couple & have been successful.

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
Maybe that was just the resin stuff that was an issue.

The metals seem alright that I've seen.

Come to think of it, didn't I get you some metals Barzam?

Had some msicasts amongst the Brits which are all metal, mainly with the gas masks.

Concept art:



Black Jack


Cerebus

Got the 'official' KS alert:

Do have a link to that link mentioned in the pic?

Oops - sorry:
http://www.westwindproductions.co.uk/catalog/newsletter.php

No need to apologize and thanks for the link!

Not really liking the art. Hopefully the actual figures will look better.

Many thanks Bubber

Really looking forward to this one starting, have had a hankering after a force of occult nazi zombies and 50's experimental weapons for some time!

SoTR remains one of my favorite games and settings - ever.

I hope 2nd edition retains much of the charm and flexibility of the first edition while tightening up some loose areas...

 Pacific wrote:

Have West Wind run any KSs before, and if so how have they been?

I've been in on the previous 2 (Empire Of The Dead and War & Empire) and they've both been great. The usual KS overruns but good communication throughout and great mini's at the end.

How late were they on Empire of the Dead and War & Empire?

War & Empire started fulfilment about 8 months late (December rather than May), and took about 4 months to do. The range is huge and the quality amazing, so I think they just got overwhelmed with orders.

Empire Of The Dead was about 4 months late (September rather than June). Again I think they got swamped as they had to hire another unit to store the orders. I can't remember how long the fulfilment took though as I got my order pretty quickly.

In both cases well worth the wait and pretty prompt by kickstarter standards.

Agreed - that's not horrible at all!

Now I'm even more excited for this one - if that's even possible!

And thanks for the update!

As someone who is waiting for several KS that are now almost a year overdue, that sounds rather good to me!

Herzlos wrote:
War & Empire started fulfilment about 8 months late (December rather than May), and took about 4 months to do. The range is huge and the quality amazing, so I think they just got overwhelmed with orders.

Empire Of The Dead was about 4 months late (September rather than June). Again I think they got swamped as they had to hire another unit to store the orders. I can't remember how long the fulfilment took though as I got my order pretty quickly.

In both cases well worth the wait and pretty prompt by kickstarter standards.

Cheers for the info Herzlos!

Interesting...

http://www.westwindproductions.co.uk/catalog/secrets_of_the_third_reich.php

There's a lot of really cool concepts in that series - wow!

REALLY looking forward to this one - any idea on when in May it will start?

Can anyone get some screen grabs & post them please? Can't do it on my chromebook :(

There are quite a few there, but here are a taste of them.

In the meantime I'm probably going to make a new terrain board for this. Can anyone recommend some good kits for WW2 (roughly) era ruins, I guess something appropriate for Stalingrad? Plastic ones would be ideal but I'm not too fussy if the price is reasonable.

Sarissa have some awesome warehouses and factories in their World War Europe range (http://www.sarissa-precision.com/World_War_Europe/cat1603369_2293856.aspx) that would be good for Stalingrad.

If you can find them, the DUST buildings are perfect too

The only plastic ruins in 28mm I can think of is Warlords but they are rural rather than urban.

Amera have ruins that might work but never used them before - it is vacuum formed plastic

Liking the whip girl Comissar and the Oni.

Oni slowly seem to be overtaking my Ogres for my Kings of War Ogre army as it stands, so I'm always down for a few more.

Japanese power armor never hurts either.

Should be a fun one!

Okay, liking these new reveals way more than the previous ones. Hopefully the actual figures will be more true-scaled this time around like the recent Incursion figures.

From the West Wind Facebook account:

West Wind Productions wrote: RE dates, the project is almost ready we need one last look over to make sure nothing is messed up. Then its down to Kickstarter to OK it this took a while last time. We may hit 2000 Likes by then who knows.

Soon!

OK, it is May 27th - May is almost done!

Anyone have any idea when this Kickstarter will be launching?

There has been nothing on their website or Facebook until today when they asked on their Facebook

"A quick poll, 28mm tanks and vehicles bases on or bases off?"

Well, I voted - and asked them when the Kickstarter is going to start!

If you are still looking for 28mm Plastic ruins try the Gothic Ruins by Pegasus. They look really good, and are almost like Legos in how modular they are.

Those Ruins are a heck of a deal for the price too. AND... they look awesome, with several different sets to choose from.

Bit late but still massive YAY!

Well, at least we have a date now!

(Runs off to find any and all funds to throw into this one!)

Yeah, I'm going in on this one. I've got a couple forces for SOTR already, and I'd love to add to them.

Hope they have a rules only pledge level.

~Eric

Pod cast (at work so haven't listened to it yet):
https://meeples.wordpress.com/2015/05/25/meeples-miniatures-episode-145-west-wind-productions/

In this show we speak to Andy Cooper of West Wind Productions.

We chat about the last two Kickstarter projects that Westwind have run: Empire of the Dead: Requiem and War & Empire, and look forward to their new project – Secrets of the Third Reich II.

We hope you enjoy the show

 bubber wrote:
Pod cast (at work so haven't listened to it yet):
https://meeples.wordpress.com/2015/05/25/meeples-miniatures-episode-145-west-wind-productions/

In this show we speak to Andy Cooper of West Wind Productions.

We chat about the last two Kickstarter projects that Westwind have run: Empire of the Dead: Requiem and War & Empire, and look forward to their new project – Secrets of the Third Reich II.

We hope you enjoy the show

Cheers for posting that!

Really looking forward to this KS, roll on next month.

Yeah, I listened to the podcast.
2 books to start. 1=Rules, 1= Army lists.
4 main lists, with Japanese and Marines as unlocks.
Multiple new characters, new units, probably new vehicles.

Crossover work with other companies, most notably Bombshell Babes for some female characters.

It certainly looks like it will be a good revamp of SoTR.

ski2060 wrote:
Yeah, I listened to the podcast.
2 books to start. 1=Rules, 1= Army lists.
4 main lists, with Japanese and Marines as unlocks.
Multiple new characters, new units, probably new vehicles.

Crossover work with other companies, most notably Bombshell Babes for some female characters.

It certainly looks like it will be a good revamp of SoTR.

There's a lot of good news there!

Do we know if the Grindhouse gang are still involved?

Grindhouse just do the Incursion board game.
I saw the 2nd Ed version at Salute. At 1st I was 'yay, plastic Dhrones' then I pick one up (off the floor after I'd just knocked it off the table) then I was 'boo - pvc'.
Still a great game though.

Grindhouse had nothing to do with SoTR at all?

Huh!

I thought they were involved somehow...

Hopefully all the minis from INCURSION get SoTR II rules too!

I could swear they said their newly designed German drop armors were going to also be used in the new version of SOTR.

 bubber wrote:
Grindhouse just do the Incursion board game.
I saw the 2nd Ed version at Salute. At 1st I was 'yay, plastic Dhrones' then I pick one up (off the floor after I'd just knocked it off the table) then I was 'boo - pvc'.
Still a great game though.

Grindhouse wrote the first edition of SOTR. Pity they don't seem to be on board for this round. I still really like the original version of this game.

Nocturnus wrote:

 bubber wrote:
Grindhouse just do the Incursion board game.
I saw the 2nd Ed version at Salute. At 1st I was 'yay, plastic Dhrones' then I pick one up (off the floor after I'd just knocked it off the table) then I was 'boo - pvc'.
Still a great game though.

Grindhouse wrote the first edition of SOTR. Pity they don't seem to be on board for this round. I still really like the original version of this game.

So I'm NOT losing my mind - awesome!

 Alpharius wrote:
Ha!

DUST is dead, and War of Wonders and that other one haven't launched yet!

SoTR was 'one of the first' to launch a 'true' tabletop wargame and, for my money, is one of the best, and most fun!

What was it that killed dust? I checked it, and the minis looked fairly decent.

John Bailey, of Grindhouse, is on board to do the rules updates for SoTR II. I think his brother, the other member of Grindhouse, will be back also.

One does rules, the other art.

ski2060 wrote:
John Bailey, of Grindhouse, is on board to do the rules updates for SoTR II. I think his brother, the other member of Grindhouse, will be back also.

One does rules, the other art.

Well, this is REALLY good news - and glad to see that this is cleared up, and that the brothers are back for 2nd edition!

My bad Alpharius! I stand corrected.

No worries - I had no idea either!

Worth noting that although the soon to be received version of Incursion/Snafu is plastic , Westwnd did produce the same models in meta, so hopefully these will be made available in or just after this KS opensl.

I like the look a the Japanese in the previews, so cannot wait to see what is on offer,

Just listened to the Podcast...

* SOTR II will be a true second edition
* Two books - a rulebook and an army lists, scenarios and mech design rules book!
* Japanese and USMC if the funding gets high enough - a lot is prepared, just in case
* SOTR 2 will be 'streamlined' by John Bailey - based on feedback received - not a massive re-write
* INCURSION/Grindhouse connection - John and Jim's offshoot boardgame company, but brought into SOTR world via DOOMSDAY expansion for SOTR
* Will also be expanding the 'Western' armies as well - via certain troop types. For example - German 'scorpion suits' - sound like power armored troops
* Old figures being re-arranged into new packaging as the miniatures came before the rules. Now, when you buy a squad, all the necessary troops will be in the box set (command, etc.)
* SOTR was 8 years ago, rulebook was 6 years ago - was the first game for WEST WIND
* KS - initial funding is for the books, once funding hit, on to specific miniatures and the Pacific theater
* Bombshell Babes - West Wind will distribute them in the UK, and there will be crossover minis for SOTR II! New Sculpts from Bombshell Babes - female figures for SOTR II!
* KS Exclusives sound to be faction t-shirts, dice bags, custom faction dice, custom tokens, mini bags - hard to believe that they'd be 'KS only' though! T-shirts confirmed (kinda) as KS only.
* Indian Were-tiger in!
* KS structure similar to how Requiem for the Dead was run - lots of 'mercenaries' and 'characters' from the Lost Patrol, which can be recruited by almost anyone

* Potential to add up to 170 figures to the SOTR range!


So, nothing earth shattering, but...I am seriously psyched for this one!

Sounds good. Looking forward to it. Hopefully they'll be producing metal versions of the redesigned Drop Armor from Incursion.

 Barzam wrote:
Sounds good. Looking forward to it. Hopefully they'll be producing metal versions of the redesigned Drop Armor from Incursion.

That's a safe bet!

I went digging last night for my SOTR stuff and was happy to find it - also happy to find my metal APE squad too!

I was very happy to hear that MECHA construction rules are still in.

And one of favorite parts is how you can use the huge range of existing plastic WWII vehicles in the game too...

I was planning on giving this a miss until I saw the following...

 Alpharius wrote:

* Bombshell Babes - West Wind will distribute them in the UK, and there will be crossover minis for SOTR II! New Sculpts from Bombshell Babes - female figures for SOTR II!
* KS Exclusives sound to be faction t-shirts, dice bags, custom faction dice, custom tokens, mini bags - hard to believe that they'd be 'KS only' though! T-shirts confirmed (kinda) as KS only.
* Indian Were-tiger in!

That's me poor in June :(

Glad I could...help?

I just hope bubber is up to the task of keeping this thread and thread title updated when the Kickstarter goes live!

 Alpharius wrote:
Glad I could...help?

I just hope bubber is up to the task of keeping this thread and thread title updated when the Kickstarter goes live!

I will do my best!

UPDATE:

Secrets of the Third Reich has been a huge success since its launch, and there is a loyal following for the game worldwide. Since we launched it, though, players have wanted three things from us. A tighter ruleset, expansion to other theaters, and of course, minis and really cool new Mechs. We've been listening, and the time is now right to launch Secrets II.

The SoTR II Kickstarter campaign begins at 12 noon GMT, this Friday, 5th June. Don't miss it!

In anticipation of tomorrow's launch...

I can't find my SOTR I rulebook!

Can someone you does have it handy tell me:

1) What vehicles are in it for the USA and the Germans?

2) Are the CREATE-A-MECH rules more like CREATE-A-VEHICLE rules?

I'm really looking to fielding a couple of Sd Kfz 234/2 Puma Armoured Cars!

Also, for SOTR are 1/48 or 1/56 (Bolt Action?) scale vehicles going to be best?

 Alpharius wrote:

1) What vehicles are in it for the USA and the Germans?

Everything from 'mid war' onwards (PzIIIJ /M3 Lee and later). There are rules for Pumas.

 Alpharius wrote:

2) Are the CREATE-A-MECH rules more like CREATE-A-VEHICLE rules?

There are no options to change the method of locomotion so going by RAW they would have to use the mech movement rules and the mech damage chart. It would be easy to house rule though.

 Alpharius wrote:

Also, for SOTR are 1/48 or 1/56 (Bolt Action?) scale vehicles going to be best?

1/56 I would imagine as Westwinds own vehicles are 1/60.

Excellent!

Thank you for all those answers!

With Rubicon & Warlord Games churning out 1/56 at a decent rate I'm going for 1/56.
Anyone want to buy some 1/48 German tanks??

I've heard some complain that 1/56 look 'too small', but that might be scale bias built in from too many years of GW Scale Bloat - maybe?

 Alpharius wrote:
I've heard some complain that 1/56 look 'too small', but that might be scale bias built in from too many years of GW Scale Bloat - maybe?

Westwind's WWII infantry models were designed to work with SotTR (or the other way around) so its safe to assume that their 1/60 vehicles will be in scale with the new SotTR stuff. 1/56 will be fine.

I've been reading through the SotTR rules and they are actually seems to be a very a good ruleset, better than I remember anyway. Its quite rough in places and some of its a little strange (generally speaking most models can only fire at the closest target).

The real draw back for me initially was the poor quality of the sculpts, hopefully this revamp will change that.

I think the big issue is an optical illusion due to the thickness of most bases. 5mm ~ 1ft. That's why I'm basing all my WW2 stuff on the Rendera flat bases.
Also WW2 vehicles are a lot smaller then people imagine.

 bubber wrote:

Also WW2 vehicles are a lot smaller then people imagine.

I think that's a major contributor to the scale confusion here too!

I got a 1/48 Marder 3 & it's diddy!
The Sd Kfz 251 at 1/48 doesn't look like you could fit 12 squirrels in it let alone 12 burly Germans.

Are you telling me I should be looking at 1/35?!?

God no! 1/56 is the right size. They just look small because of GW sizes & the fact they are really small in real life!! lol.

Any chance of some pics of SOTR minis next to some 1/48 and 1/56 vehicles?

2 in the front, plus 5 on each bench in the back... they would be cramped as hell.They are not that big at all.
I got to see one recently at the Camp Mabry Military History Museum in Austin Tx.
The vehicles really are smaller than you would think.


Alpharius, check out Anatoli's blog here: http://anatolisgameroom.blogspot.com/search/label/Secrets%20of%20the%20Third%20Reich

He is one of the reasons I got into SoTR in the first place. Pretty sure there are some 1/56 or 1/48 vehicles in there. I'm sure you can ask him what scale his vehicles are.

I can sort some at the weekend Alph.

ski2060 wrote:

Alpharius, check out Anatoli's blog here: http://anatolisgameroom.blogspot.com/search/label/Secrets%20of%20the%20Third%20Reich

He is one of the reasons I got into SoTR in the first place. Pretty sure there are some 1/56 or 1/48 vehicles in there. I'm sure you can ask him what scale his vehicles are.

I have his Blog bookmarked already!

I was searching through it today, looking for scale shots - couldn't find any...

But I did e-mail him directly, and he said 1/56 would be the way to go, but that some still said 1/48 looked better...

bubber wrote:I can sort some at the weekend Alph.

Much appreciated - and see you on the KS tomorrow!

It's 2.30 in the morning here now so see ya later today!

 bubber wrote:
I got a 1/48 Marder 3 & it's diddy!
The Sd Kfz 251 at 1/48 doesn't look like you could fit 12 squirrels in it let alone 12 burly Germans.

To be honest, the actual 251 doesn't look like you could fit 12 people in it either. The funniest one is the Universal Carrier.... now that is small. I have no idea how the driver fitted in there!

 Alpharius wrote:

ski2060 wrote:

Alpharius, check out Anatoli's blog here: http://anatolisgameroom.blogspot.com/search/label/Secrets%20of%20the%20Third%20Reich

He is one of the reasons I got into SoTR in the first place. Pretty sure there are some 1/56 or 1/48 vehicles in there. I'm sure you can ask him what scale his vehicles are.

I have his Blog bookmarked already!

I was searching through it today, looking for scale shots - couldn't find any...

But I did e-mail him directly, and he said 1/56 would be the way to go, but that some still said 1/48 looked better...

I think from the masses of discussion about Bolt Action on this subject, either scale will work. There tends to be more 1/48 scale plastic kits out there from the likes of Tamiya so I think has been quite popular for that reason. I suppose the key would be having the same scaling used for all of the vehicles on the board.

It's Alive!!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/832150598/1949-sotr-ii-the-weird-wwii-miniatures-game

Well I'm in at Sarge. More than I was intending but we'll see how it goes. I'm such a sucker for LE items though.

Same here. Ah well

I went for Lieutenant

yeah,
If I own a Bucket of Blood is the only thing I need to start playing the book?

Panic...

You can get a start with that, for certain!

Especially since we'll be getting the 1st edition rules for free as a PDF.

And, I'm in at Lieutenant level!

I've got the 1st edition already, never got round to using it.

I'm just hoping that most of the mini's will be realistic enough that I can use them for Bolt Action as well. My Soviets can always use more heroes.

I've been planning on holding off backing until I receive my Incursion Bucket of Blood pledge and get an idea on where to start. Just noticed it's a pretty short campaign time, so timing may not work out.

Exactly!

It is ONLY a 20 DAY CAMPAIGN!

Get pledging!

GET PLEDGING!!!

New pics/concepts?

Hmm... I want to back, but I don't know what I'm getting if I back yet. Silhouettes don't really help me.

If it's a bunch of regular looking soldiers, I don't know... I need me all the crazy stuff like they've been showing in the new artwork.

Or will all that be stretch goal territory?

If I can have a starter army of Oni and Japanese power armor, I'll be signing up post haste.

Mech designs look cool though.

The current starter sets will (I would assume) be using the existing range of SoTR infantry, for example the sniper starter is

http://www.westwindproductions.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=126_185&products_id=1403

The crazy bits in the new artwork will most likely be stretches interspersed with the characters silhouetted in the stretch section

These new Mech designs look to be miles better than their MKI versions too!

And I agree - we need to see concept art/minis for the USMC and Japanese army stuff STAT - positive momentum and such - especially with this being only a 20 day campaign!

Not sure about the new RAT design. I liked the fighter plane look of the original.

I would imagine we won't see concept art for the USMC and Japanese until we hit that stretch (whenever that is). The problem they have with that homepage is it really isn't clear what is a stretch goal and what the goals are... it just says "if we hit our goals we will unlock the USMC/Japanese forces"

Agreed - more clarification is needed on what the stretch goals are, and what number needs to be hit to unlock them.

Yow, those are some high prices. I was hoping it'd be a bit cheaper to buy-in. I'm in, but only for the measly 1 pound pledge. I'll probably upgrade it later though.

Are they?

What seems high?

I haven't seen many prices listed at all yet - but everything's metal here, so...

I do wish West Wind would be a bit more active here - like maybe active at all!

yeah, I will be interested to see how long any of my questions take to get answered in the comments

- how big are the books likely to be?
- What is in the books?
- Hardback/paperback?
- What models are in the starter sets?
- What are the stretch goals and totals?

I assumed the starter sets would be pre-existing models, but I can't find some squads that match the descriptions... for example the German HQ says 5 models, yet the only HQ blisters in their webshop are all 4 man and the British starter lists riflemen squads... which they don't currently do.

 Alpharius wrote:
Are they?

What seems high?

I haven't seen many prices listed at all yet - but everything's metal here, so...

I do wish West Wind would be a bit more active here - like maybe active at all!

OK, just saw that going from BOOK ONLY at £30 to the first level with a starter set at £79 (which to be fair also includes the Liberty model and all stretch goals) is a £49 jump!

No way a starter set should be 'discounted' at £49/$75!

Even for 29 guys in metal.

Sure, there's some 'value' baked in there IF we hit a lot of stretch goals...

Am I missing something?

No, I think that's the price complaint which is, to be honest, a fair one. I'm currently in at this level for curiosity sake, but may drop to just the books depending on the stretches that get hit


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Looking at the sniper mission level, if the books are £30, you're paying £20 for the box, which current retails at £26 for the 14 models included in it.

IF you follow that pricing model, then 29 figures should have an rrp of about £52, which would explain the large step in price.

I'm perhaps too much of fan of SOTR, so I'll be in at the Lt. level for good, I think, but I can definitely see a lot of 'books only' pledges being switched too towards the end IF the deals aren't good enough/justify the higher pledge levels.

Did EMPIRE OF THE DEAD follow a similar track?

EotD didn't have the physical rulebook in any of it's pledge levels, you only got the pdf. The book was a £30 add-on

The closest equivalent in EotD was doing a £30 level and adding the rulebook, but this didn't get you any stretch goals

£30 reward
Friend or Foe 1 - Choose any single boxed set from Lycaon, Vampire, Brotherhood, Gentlemen's club or Zombies.
+ Any two human sized models from Requiem.
+ Nadezhda Durova, a Kickstarter only Limited Edition miniature.

The same price pledge level was £75 which got you

Requiem 23+5 Early Bird Special II - (+all stretch goals) 28 human sized models from Requiem + Nadezhda Durova, a Kickstarter only Limited Edition miniature. + a Pdf of the Empire of the Dead rulebook.

I think in the end there were 8 free characters as stretch goals included with this one. Knock that up to £105 if you wanted the physical book.

So when you look at that, this one is actually pretty good value, even if you do only get one playable force.
Having said that... for the step up to Lt (another £50) you get another starter set and a walker (which we already know is £18.50)... which makes the second starter £31.50 instead of the £49 it is at Sergeant?

Captain and Major are basically the same pricing as Lt (£49 for another starter and a walker) at each level.

yeah,
My issue is that there doesn't seem to be a big saving offered... £80 for the book and 30 guys?
£1.60 a mini.. sounds ok but these are IP free standard 28mm WW2 guys right? I can get those anywhere.
Pass.

These mooks are just the setting IMO... Where's the weird stuff pledge levels? all the Zombies and Occult??

Do we have stuff like not HellBoy and Abe?

Right now I'm looking at the £30 book pledge and wondering if I really need another book / game system...
What exactly is in the book? The entire game, rules and codex plus scenarios?
IMO the book should be stupid cheap as it gets me through the door into their web store buying up all the cool toys unique minis I need..

I might back late in the campaign once I can see some content.
What they really need is a pledge level that's made clear as day for the Incursion crowd!
The book plus extras to max out what we already have.


Also remember these prices are not counting postage costs.
So it's a £34 for the book to the UK and £40 to the ROW... At least this indicates a large book
And you have to pay that twice if you want the models that are ready now shipped ahead of the stuff that's being Kickstarted!

Panic...

You gave all those links and missed out the big supplier of ww2 plastics?

For comparison, EotD's book was 152 page hardback + 1 model for £30.

SotR II is supposed to be two books of indeterminate cover type and page count. Looking at the first edition, that was about 160 pages, with another 80 for Doomsday. They have to, at the very least, cover all of the units from both books, plus all the rules to allow existing players to carry on.

 endtransmission wrote:
You gave all those links and missed out the big supplier of ww2 plastics?

Who is that?

Warlord?

Or...someone else?

I really would like to see a weird stuff pledge. Hopefully it shows up in the add ons post haste and I have a valid excuse to pledge.

To me that's what makes the game unique.

I could play bolt action or something if I just wanted regular boot sloggers.

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
I really would like to see a weird stuff pledge. Hopefully it shows up in the add ons post haste and I have a valid excuse to pledge.

To me that's what makes the game unique.

I could play bolt action or something if I just wanted regular boot sloggers.

Agree absolutely.

Some slightly fantasy-ish head gear won't be enough to make people buy these over the Bolt Action plastics.

Definitely need to see some more apes, zombies, mechs!

I'm sure all that is coming as it IS the point of playing SOTR - but yeah, I'm not sure why it isn't already on display...

 Alpharius wrote:

 endtransmission wrote:
You gave all those links and missed out the big supplier of ww2 plastics?

Warlord?

Who else?

We've also got all the Achtung! Cthulhu models as well, which will go nicely with SotR II

Oh. We got a little bit more detail on the books

Westwind wrote:Ok the books will be full colour, soft back. At the moment we expect around 220 pages for the pair although clearly have not yet done layout.

For the rules we have kept many of the core mechanics but have taken the opportunity to iron out lots of the idiosyncrasies and frustrating bits people have been talking about. We have, though, put together a faster easier but still tactically challenging close combat system which is on test as we speak.

We are now on army lists. Again we are looking at some of the overpowered uber lists and some of the inflexible aspects of army building to give players more flexibility. We are also reworking the points system to accommodate that.

Fluff and background. Yes that along with scenarios and the 'build your own' system we know many love will be in there, possibly with a few surprises. The history background to Europe is well established in book one but with the Pacific and of course the sister work in Incursion we will be taking things further.

There will also be Commonwealth army lists in the books and one of the forthcoming models will be a were-tiger


Automatically Appended Next Post:
K. Another update form Westwind confirming that all of the initial 4 starter sets comprise of existing models, though they are redoing the casts for them so they can be done in better quality material

I think we've also now got...confirmation...that your pledge amount will be 'credited' into some secret store front post-KS campaign where you'll pick whatever you want.

Presumably this means you can pledge for a higher amount that qualifies for stretch goals and then later on, get whatever it is you want and not be locked into buying any infantry starters.

I think?

yeah,

 endtransmission wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

 endtransmission wrote:
You gave all those links and missed out the big supplier of ww2 plastics?

Warlord?

I will probably go plastic for my mooks. some of the new ones have great detail.
But to be fair in comparison I linked to metals... most of which I find soft in detail and consistency.


I'm very interested in this game...
Hellboy is my favourite comic book hero and the setting is very similar.

 endtransmission wrote:

Westwind wrote:Ok the books will be full colour, soft back. At the moment we expect around 220 pages for the pair although clearly have not yet done layout.

For the rules we have kept many of the core mechanics but have taken the opportunity to iron out lots of the idiosyncrasies and frustrating bits people have been talking about. We have, though, put together a faster easier but still tactically challenging close combat system which is on test as we speak.

We are now on army lists. Again we are looking at some of the overpowered uber lists and some of the inflexible aspects of army building to give players more flexibility. We are also reworking the points system to accommodate that.

Fluff and background. Yes that along with scenarios and the 'build your own' system we know many love will be in there, possibly with a few surprises. The history background to Europe is well established in book one but with the Pacific and of course the sister work in Incursion we will be taking things further.

There will also be Commonwealth army lists in the books and one of the forthcoming models will be a were-tiger

Automatically Appended Next Post:
K. Another update form Westwind confirming that all of the initial 4 starter sets comprise of existing models, though they are redoing the casts for them so they can be done in better quality material

Great! the details have my interest!
I will most probably pledge for the book(s?) and watch the rest with interest.

Panic...

I hope that the metals from the INCURSION Kickstarter become available here in this one too...

Also, confirmation that you can spend you pledge on whatever you want (mostly):

Creator Andy Cooper, West Wind Productions 7 minutes ago

@Alpharius, yes you got it, you need to go in at Sarge level - £79, which qualifies for all free stretch goals, and these will automatically be added into your pledge. However, if you go in at the higher levels, in addition to qualifying for the free stretch goals, you will be given additional store credit to cover the cost of the free mechs allocated at each level - at the cost of £18.50 each. You don't have to choose the mech when you make your choices via the webstore. If you prefer to choose other things, then you can do. The Mech are going to be really awesome, so can guarantee you will want em

So you can spend your store credit as you wish. You will be required to choose the rulebook as part of your pledge at £30, as we need to cover the cost of producing and printing this, and this is the major purpose of raising the funds on this KS campaign.

You just have to buy the book later - other than that, spend you pledge on whatever weirdness you'd like!

The infantry models in SoTR all have a different look, to include weapons, than normal WW2 infantry.

They are usually modeled with body armor and gas masks, and weapons that look like evolved WW2 engineering.

Soviets all look like post apocalyptic survivors.

So, not quite the same as picking up equivalents to Warlord WW2 models.

I am a bit put off by the apparent high cost, and minimum savings / value in the pledge levels.

I really don't need more infantry. I have enough that I can work them in no problems.

I would really like to see them add stretch goals bonuses to the Book pledge. Otherwise, I really have no impetus to pick up the rules until retail. If it's going to be the same cost, I can wait til it's out with retailers in the US.

ski2060 wrote:
The infantry models in SoTR all have a different look, to include weapons, than normal WW2 infantry.

They are usually modeled with body armor and gas masks, and weapons that look like evolved WW2 engineering.

Its the weapons that are the hard part, none of the standard SotTR infantry have WWII era weaponry.

yeah,

ski2060 wrote:
...I really don't need more infantry. I have enough that I can work them in no problems.
I would really like to see them add stretch goals bonuses to the Book pledge. Otherwise, I really have no impetus to pick up the rules until retail. If it's going to be the same cost, I can wait til it's out with retailers in the US.

This is exactly how I feel... Where is the bonus to back at book level??

Might as just well wait and try and get my FLG to stock the book and seek a discount there....

 Alpharius wrote:
...You just have to buy the book later - other than that, spend you pledge on whatever weirdness you'd like!

Great!
So where is the Weird War Two stuff ? all the pledge levels are for mook troops?

Panic....

 Alpharius wrote:
I think we've also now got...confirmation...that your pledge amount will be 'credited' into some secret store front post-KS campaign where you'll pick whatever you want.

Presumably this means you can pledge for a higher amount that qualifies for stretch goals and then later on, get whatever it is you want and not be locked into buying any infantry starters.

I think?

That's how it worked for their 15mm Ancients campaign I backed, using an isolated copy of their regular storefront

Supposedly 'coming soon'.

It is an odd choice though - to NOT lead with the Weird War II stuff.

First official Update!

Update #1

Jun 6 2015
Z-Day plus 1........
0 Comments

Good Morning All!

A massive thank you for jumping on-board and supporting our Secrets of the Third Reich II Kickstarter thus far. Its a very good start but we need as much support as possible over the first weekend. So if you have 5 minutes to spare, please spread the word where you can, Facebook, Blogs, Twitter, raising awareness and talking about us with your gaming buddies.

To help spread the word and get the ball rolling, we have put together a folder on Dropbox with downloadable resources. Images etc....Feel free to share these everywhere!

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/eyetctu26utfr2d/AAAwYh-sTwd0pjcOzmWacC0ma?dl=0

So what would we like to achieve? First of all, Secrets of the Third Reich II rules! We know our community loves the feel of the game and the core mechanics but they have told us they want us to look at some of the anomalies, and of course the unforeseen power plays any rules throw up. We have over the past few months commissioned writers to go through everyone's comments and adapt the rules to make the game flow even better and iron out these wrinkles. We have three experience rules writers, John Bailey from Grindhouse Games - Writer, Ian Hill - Editor in Chief and John Austin in charge of the play testing. Like us, they are all very passionate about the game and love all things SoTR !

So don't expect a totally different game as that's not what folks have said they want, they are happy with the game play and mechanics. Instead expect crisper clearer rules with some interesting additions to make the game playable in more theaters. We wouldn't be West Wind if we didn't also create some stunning new concept art and background, so expect some new immersive narrative to give Secrets more depth than ever before. Oh and the way army lists are built will also be getting a makeover.

New theaters of operation have been a wish for many and through Kickstarter, we hope to unlocking the Pacific theater. Expect whole new factions and options that capture the spirit world of the Far East alongside the existing arcane and weird technology of the current game.

Then there's the new minis. If we hit our goals we will start to unveil the new miniatures conceived. Watch our updates to see these amazing concepts unfurl.

Why Kick start now?

This will be our third campaign. Our aim as a company is to only start campaigns we know will delight our backers, and of course, we need the support to be able to bring the project to fruition as its a huge undertaking. Kickstarter is an amazing way of not only raising funds but also of listening to our backers.

Is this campaign aimed at only existing players?

No way! Although we have listened to our current players we have also been looking at how the gaming market has changed in recent years. Gamers want flowing, immersive games that let players test their tactical mettle against their friends, club mates and campaign or tournament opponents. We believe Secrets II does all this and more. So keen are we to grow the fan base that we are offering our backers a free copy of the current rules so they can experience the game immediately. So whether you're a hardened veteran of 1949 or a new conscript there's plenty in our campaign to draw you into the amazing, terrifying and fun world of Secrets of the Third Reich.

EDIT!

Well, that didn't take long!

Update #2

Jun 6 2015
Soviet Monster Mech added to Pledge Add Ons section......



Of all the metal monsters to lumber out of the Siberian mecha factories in Cheylabinsk, Russia. KS-1 Mecha is perhaps the most bizarre looking. Named in honour of the Soviet Union's greatest mech ace, Konstantin Samokhin, the KS-1 is something of a cross between mecha and tank. The large bodied mecha walks on eight legs giving it added stability when firing and moving in heavy terrain. Furthermore, the eight legged design allows it to keep moving even if a couple of legs are damaged. This is a formidable and deadly beast within the game and it's unique design earned it the nickname 'Nayk' or 'Spider'!

As someone mentioned earlier, SOTR is a sadly underrated game that has always deserves more love from the gaming community.

The setting is well thought out - and the addition of the Pacific theatre is something I hope we can achieve-and the rules are clear and most importantly produce games which are fun to play for both sides. It is one of those games taht produces "gaming" moments on a regular basis, that get fondly remembered.

It can be played with a few models or hordes

Of course it has a great spin off in Incursion, with rules allowing the crossover of characters and units from there.

People do not want to play "weird" WW2, well sneak up on them by playing a straight game with no uber tech/gribblies etc. Let people see hwo solid a set of ww2 rules these are. THen slowly add a few of the more "occult" elements and take it from there.

One great mini game is the hunt the sniper scenario included in the rules - played on split tables (identical terrain separated by a curtain or the llike, sometimes called blind gaming) and an umpire is a blast

me, I am in and hoping this is another good KS for Westwind , one of the best and frindliest makers out there.

wilycoyote - agreed!

SoTR is a lot of fun!

More good news!

Alpharius 1 minute ago

I'll add my voice to the chorus of "Please keep the design-a-mech" rules in 2nd edition, please!

Please also add 'tracked' and 'wheeled' options so we can make Weird Vehicles too, if possible!

ian hill 6 minutes ago

Alpharius et al fear not they are staying and will be enhanced.

Gah! While I would have loved to partake in the KS of SoTR, it seems that it will not come to pass for me.

I think I'll follow along and see what goodies get opened up, but with the minimal perceived value of just a book pledge, I wouldn't be able to pledge any higher.

My AC compressor just took a dive, so now I will have to pull several thousand dollars out of thin air to get my home AC system rebuilt/replaced :(

Been a while since I've posted anything on this forum. To answer some of the questions running through this thread, SOTR can be played at squad level, but is best played at the platoon level. What sets it apart from some of the other Weird War II games is the vast amount of flexibility the player has in creating his force. You can build a "normal" platoon with no weird component, or you can create a platoon that is maxed out with pulp-like goodness. Like an Occult theme? The British have the forces of the Temple (think Crowley), and the Germans have the SWD. Werewolves? Check. Vampires? Check. Zombies? Check. Soviet Werebears? Check. Native American shamans controlling Wendigos? Yup. Four classes of Mecha? Check. King Arthur reborn? Yup. Want to have (not)Captain America lead your U.S. platoon? Got rules that cover that. Wonder "what if" a Centurion tank went toe to toe with a Panther II? Covered.
The original rule book even had a game effect chart that included things like radiation zones, violent weather and Demonic incursions. That's right, you could open a hell mouth and Greater or lesser demons would appear and attack random units from both players forces (my favorite!).
West Wind's SOTR figures are very different from standard WWII minis. The British, German, and US forces all have options to equip their platoons with body armor. The SOTR minis reflect this. They are of the "heroic" type. As for vehicles, page 87 of the V1 rule book recommend 1/50 and or 1/48 scale. The vehicles used in the photographs in the rule book were a mix of Solido, Corgi, and Bandai I believe. Some of these can be seen on the ks home page. It really comes down to personal taste. I have seen armies that use 1/56 vehicles that look stunning, and ones that use 1/48 that get the same result. I use a mix of 1/50 and 1/48 and they look great with the minis on the table. The key is don't mix different scales of the same vehicle.
If you backed the Incursion ks, all of the minis currently have rules in SOTR. The only exceptions are the Hugo, Brigitte, Rosie, MI-13 ack pack, Hilde Becker, and Nigel, but from what has been revealed in the comments section of the ks, it appears they will be getting some love in the new rule book. In terms of playability of your Incursion models, the US and British would need to add a starter set to field a rule compliant platoon. The majority of minis in Incursion and Snafu are either characters or support choices in SOTR. The Germans might be able to field a SWD stumzombie platoon with what you get. I would have to check my Doomsday book to be sure, but I believe it is doable.
A big shock to some players is the range of weapons. Most have the ability to reach the whole table. This makes sense when you realize that a 4 foot by 6 foot table translates into about 75 yards by 112 yards in scale feet (sorry if my math is off a little, long day). It is the modifiers to shooting that will determine if you hit anything. Things die and die fast. You really have to think tactically and take advantage of cover and concealment. It is one of the things I like best about the game..

yeah,
As an Incursion Bucket of Blood backer I have backed for the book £30... plus £4 postage.
I love the idea of a variant weird history. and getting more use from my buckets of bloods would be excellent.

At £30 is there any saving? How much will the book cost retail?
Will the book pledge level receives any stretch goals?

I may back for a starter faction too if the Weird comes out to play during the campaign.
and I get more information regarding the game and what the starter sets contain.
What makes the starter sets 'Weird'?

FATROC Do we get not BPRD in the rules?

Panic...

Two add-ons that do have a discount





So one of the comments covers the after-campaign part nicely, especially the shipping part.
After the campaign closes and they are ready to start releasing things, all the backers will have the relevant amount of credit applied to an account in a backer-only shop. As Westwind complete a model/book/whatever it will be added to the shop. The book will be a mandatory part of the purchase, but the rest of the credit spent on whatever you want form the store. You can either save your credit until everything you want is released and get it all sent at once, or you can buy bits and pieces as they are released, but will have to pay postage each time you get something sent out.

It's a shame the zombies are a random mix,

better that they guarantee one of each of the 8 sculpts and 12 random extras (even if it would be a bit more work and pehaps only for KS orders)

The probabilities work out pretty strongly in favour of having the mix you suggest though. Like ~6% chance of one sculpt not appearing in the set and a >0.5% chance of there being 6 or fewer.

That zombie KS price seems very reasonable! And good to see they are trying to encourage more backers.

Anyone know how the SoTR troopers scale with Bolt Action? At this point I was thinking a cheap way of playing would be to get some Bolt Action plastic troopers and buy the gas-masked heads from Westwind separately.

Here are a couple of size comparisons. The Bolt action are the older metal minis.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Panic- not sure what "BPRD" stands for. Enlighten me and I may be able to help.

I'm guessing BPRD is this

http://hellboy.wikia.com/wiki/Bureau_for_Paranormal_Research_and_Defense

Aaah, now it makes sense. The answer is Yes and No. There is currently no specific faction option dedicated solely to that. However, both the British and U.S. forces have elements that would fall under that umbrella. The British have the Bad Luck Boys from MI-13. These include both commando and paranormal choices. Ash is a teenage girl who is the "fire starter"... cue music now. Sort of like the character from the Hellboy movies. Black Jack is the world's first cyborg. The Hurricane is a super soldier who went through the US's Sentinel program. Dr Lazurus always reminds me of a certain 4th Doctor, but he has the option to take his "pet" vampire with him. The Temple is a mysterious organization that has come out to fight for Crown and Country, but in a much darker form. They can field a flesh golem! The Temple is sort of a Ordo Templus Orientus and Templars mix.
The US has the OSS. They run the super soldier Sentinel program derived from the technology "shared" by the visitors recovered at Roswell. The rules for a Sentinel are perfect for fielding a Captain America, Wonder Woman, or Hellboy type character using an appropriate model. The Crow Dog soldiers fall under OSS control. These are Native Americans drafted into Project Spirit Walker. They are warriors and Medicine Men. They can field a Wendigo.
On the German side, you have the SWD. These guys are responsible for all kinds of nastiness. They have isolated the lycanthropy virus and have weaponized it. They field werewolves. The Wolf-runner program took that one step further and created a hybrid. Not as powerful as a were, but they retain their human mental awareness and dexterity Werewolves with machine guns! The SWD also created the zombies by using V-gas. Germany also has the Vampires that fight for them.

Cerberus is definitely a good step in getting me to pledge. Have West Wind said how big he'll be?

Still holding out for Oni, but I've got this one starred at least until the time being.

Hopefully the secret storefront pledge manager system will take paypal, and then all will be good in my world.

I'm hoping for more info on the Lost Squad...

Here's some guesses. Arc Angel is the Cossack Girl, Nathan Quill is the archer, Molotov is the Surivor, and Dunbar is the Para/SAS sniper from the new artwork. Sterner is the Stiener character from Cross of Iron. Q-ball is Oddball from Kelly's Heros. I think Red Claw will be a Crow Dog character. And I'm hoping that either Iron Ike or Gary Grey is a character based on the iconic art work from the V1 rule book of the Tommy carrying the barbwire wrapped two by four on pg 41. Can't wait to see if I'm in the right ballpark.

FYI Spider Tank size:

Nice comparison shot. That is the largest of the three Spider tanks West Wind makes.

For some 1/56 scale tank models models:

In the U.S.
http://www.goldendist.com/index.php?m=list&mfg=RUM

and for those in the U.K and Germany check this site under distributers.
http://www.rubiconmodels.com/products.php


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Bubber, any Dust mechs you can compare the Russian spider tank with?

I've gone back and both on the issue a lot, but I think I'm going to stick with 1/48 scale for my WWII models for SoTR!

Those zombies aren't even new sculpts......

I've just discovered this from Clockwork Goblin.

Their upcoming British heavy infantry look very nice as well.

I think you meant to link this one:

http://www.clockworkgoblinminis.co.uk/ourshop/cat_619857-War-Without-End-28mm.html

Maybe?

Anyway - yeah, lots of good Weird War II stuff there!

Ernster wrote:
@Bubber, any Dust mechs you can compare the Russian spider tank with?

Sure - have to dig them out first. Need to do some scale shots for Alpharius too.
I got West Wind Berlin or Bust, Grindhouse Incursion, Studio Miniatures zombies, Warlord Games vehicles plus maybe some other stuff to sort through & photograph.

bubber - thanks for working on these scale shots for us!

 Alpharius wrote:
I think you meant to link this one

ctrl+v fail there.



They do (or at least will do) some nice Germans as well.

I'm failing too - where are the previews located?

Their bookface page.

Found a couple of photos of SOTR US armored infantry with Corgi 1/50 scale vehicles. I believe the modelers name who painted them is Mocaiv.

Here are a couple of photos of Thibo's SOTR mechgrenadiers with what I believe are Tamiya 1/48 scale vehicles.

@Bubber, oh you don't have to dig out your stuff on my account.

@Alpharius, I too have all 1/48 scale stuff. Just provide alternate models for those looking for 1/56. Some vehicles are not produced by some companies while others are. The Rubicon are plastic kits that have to be put together as opposed to corgi or resin kits. This also allows for easier conversion.

So it appears there will be rules for mech design, creature design, and wheeled/tracked vehicle design incorporated into V.2. Love it!

New add-ons:







I like the look of the Hydra, I mean German energy weapons.

Nice add-ons there!

I'll be getting everything except the Soviet stuff!

Finally, Mr Smythe and the Flesh Golem! Added them and the plasma cannon grenadiers. Now my Temple platoon will be complete.

I like Mr Smythe, hopefully he'll be available on his own at some point.

I'm starting to get worried that the funding seems to have stalled at £22.5k.
I have to agree that it wasn't a great idea not to offer a pledge level for mainly weird stuff. I pledges quite high but am wondering if I need more grunts any way & maybe lower my pledge for the book only & then get the add-ons I want (which, so far, is the German ray gun dudes).

They've said in the comments section that they've heard us and are 'working on it' but yeah, troubling.

The problem here is, right now, this KS 'caters' to people who are already SoTR fans - and most likely already own 1, 2 or 3 armies.

And this includes all the starters on offer now.

Issues as I see them:

1) Not enough "Weird"
2) USMC and Japanese starters should have been available from the start (provided the funding goal was hit, obviously!)
3) No stretch goals revealed. No idea at what interval stretch goals will be paced.

I'm thinking that as metal models, the 'unlock' levels should be relatively small - around £1000 or £2000 each step?

KS seems to be all about 'momentum' these days (see Maelstrom's Edge and Zombicide Black Plague), and I'm concerned that momentum is not being gained or even sustained here - and it is a short campaign on top of all that!

I think you're underestimating the cost of getting the rule books done (especially if they are being done in Europe rather than 'gambling' on china without spare cash to go out and monitor it being done)

and the starters & zombies are not particularly expensive so may make up a decent chunck of the pledge total but not actually generate much capital to spare for new stuff

I agree that some indication of where the 'weird' might start would help,

along with a schedule of unlocks for the USMC & Japanese which as you say could be expected to be every 3
£1-2000

(on the other hand just getting the new books properly funded would be a win as that would let the start selling the game to new players again even if the have to fund the new factions more traditionally later

They need to make it clearer that the starter sets listed are more like credit for £49 in the post-kickstarted store for longer term players. Not that there is much weird to buy anyway.

In fact everything needs to be clearer for this. It makes me a little sad how badly structured this one is... It should have been a quicker fund with a lot of much clearer detail about... Well, everything. For example, i shouldn't have to hunt through the comments and webshop to see what is in a rifle squad. Took me ages to work out that this didn't mean rifle carrying troops, just "some infantry".

Looks like its going to be cancelled given the latest update.

Good afternoon everyone, and thanks for jumping onboard and supporting our Secrets of the Third Reich II project. We were off to a good start but as you know, over the last few days, things have been more or less at a standstill.

We always knew, to complete SoTRII it was going to be a costly exercise. We brought this project to Kickstarter in the hope at we would gain the support to be able to take the game where we wanted to take it, as financial backing for a small business such as West Wind is an absolute must to undertake a project the size of Secrets. All our finger have been well and truly crossed that enough backers would come in to make this possible.

So to conclude, it greatly pains us to say that we have reached the following decision. After long consideration, number crunching to try to make this fit, plus a great deal of soul searching, it is with great regret that we have no alternative but to cancel the project. We have over the last few days looked at all the options to try to work around this to make it financially viable, and please believe us, this is not a decision that we have taken lightly. This is purely a financial business decision that we have had to take. We are very very sorry.

We will not be able to take the project to Kickstarter again in a different format, however, we will be looking at other avenues as a possible way forward outside of Kickstarter, together with John Bailey and Ian Hill.

We know you are going to be disappointed that we are not able to take this project any further here, we too are very disappointed, and we thank you all very much indeed for your commitment and support of ourselves and the project since launch.

With very best regards,

Andy & Wendy Cooper, West Wind Productions

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yep cancelled.

NOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I guess they'll go the "Nickstarter" route instead?

This is MASSIVELY disappointing.

I've been waiting YEARS for this update to second edition...

Ugh.

It feels slightly premature to cancel it after only 6 days when all they needed was clearer details on the campaign page and better advertising :(

I was looking forward to this one too

For them to pull the plug so soon it probably means the 'funding goal' was actually well below what they actually needed to get to pay for what they'd promised

so it would have been a company killing disaster to only just fund (which is, of course, the disadvantage in low balling your goal)

A sad day for all weird world war 2 players.

We still have the V1 which remains a solid ruleset. Maybe worse moving it to Wargamevault.

What I think went wrong:
I think they failed to get new players, and the goal and stretch were unclear.
Old players new what to expect, but new players....

Also, they should have gone full weird, agreed with Grindhouse for their plastic army (how cheap could have been a APE platoon or drop troopers? :( currently a APE platoon, 10 mini is at least US$ 125).

Still, I expected them to get the 30k by this week and enjoy the ride to get the USMC and Japanese.

Side note:
Their previous kickstarters were better marketed with free rules (PDF), and focus on mini, funded within a day. They started to stall and losing some backers / gaining some.

Finally, kickstarting the same period as Zombicide was a bad timing (seems to be kickstarter responsibility) as Zombicide stole the spotlight.

Cross posting from the West Wind Forums:

Alpharius wrote:Words cannot express how disappointed I am right now.

Cancelling MIGHT have been the right decision - IF they were coming back with a re-designed campaign that made a lot more sense.

You know, more Weird WWII stuff available right away, clear stretch goals and amounts listed right away...

No one knew at what level the USMC and Japanese forces were going to unlock at!

I really, really, REALLY hope this doesn't mean SoTR II will not be happening.

I also hope that this doesn't mean SoTR II is now that much further away from a release, but I guess I can't see how that's not the case.

This is bad news indeed...

I've long since grow disillusioned with GW and 40K.

SoTR was going to be my 'main game' going forward.

I guess I'll still soldier on with 1st Edition rules...

The timing on when they started as well as well as length was not the best. There were probably quite a few people in the UK (as well as US and rest of EU) that had this starred waiting for Incursion to arrive first.

Whether fair or not, the loose association probably sidelined quite a few people who would have been in if this kicked off in the July/August timeframe.

That's a GOOD point too - if this had started AFTER Incursion arrived, then GRINDHOUSE could have also sent out a KS Update pimping SoTRII.

AS it is...

Ugh.

So depressing.

 endtransmission wrote:
It feels slightly premature to cancel it after only 6 days when all they needed was clearer details on the campaign page and better advertising :(

I was looking forward to this one too

I have to agree. Not sure what the point of cancelling the KS before it ended was? Sure, it was looking like they might not make their target funding, but many KS have large surges of funding in the last few days.

I do have to agree that the KS could have been structured better, focusing more on weird and new figures, rather than starting out with the generic American, British, German and Russian rifle squads which were already available and most existing players already had. Even at this late date, some restucturing of the KS, rather than concelling it, might have reignited the funding. Its cancelled now, though, so all we can do is hope they find some other way to fund SOTR2, either a revised KS or some other other process.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
For them to pull the plug so soon it probably means the 'funding goal' was actually well below what they actually needed to get to pay for what they'd promised

so it would have been a company killing disaster to only just fund (which is, of course, the disadvantage in low balling your goal)

I suspect you're right as they were planning on redoing all of the moulds needed for the infantry as well as the books and new models

I think West Wind expected this to really take off - and as noted above - the real cost of getting the books printed was more than the 'funding goal' was set at.

If they were afraid that this one was 'only' going to overfund by (X), then they could have been in a deficit situation.

At the end of the day, to steal a phrase, I am absolutely gutted by this one cancelling.

 mdauben wrote:

 endtransmission wrote:
It feels slightly premature to cancel it after only 6 days when all they needed was clearer details on the campaign page and better advertising :(
I was looking forward to this one too

Its cancelled now, though, so all we can do is hope they find some other way to fund SOTR2, either a revised KS or some other other process.

They said in their update that it wouldn't be coming back to KS, which is disappointing. I wonder how many people would have backed at £15 or £20 for pdf versions of the updated rules with nothing else? it certainly would have cur out the printing and postage costs

A lot, I'd wager!

Do you know who actually owns the IP ?

(pure speculation on my part:

since westwind and grindhouse are listed as publishers on the original could it be that it's a co-owned property that westwind was going to be taking on solo

and so having to pay royalties to grindhouse on their share ?

that could be another reason they needed to see more excitement and backer for the new edition)

I don't get why they wouldn't want to try using KS again though.

A more clear understanding of goals, a longer campaign, a better mixture of normal and weird in the starters, cheap PDFs (or even free) for the rules rather than physical books for the time being...

Unless there was more happening behind the scenes none of us are naturally aware of, I feel like they pulled the plug a big too early.

A shame. I hadn't pledged yet, but had been following this thread and the KS page quite regularly in the hopes they finally had that deal I just couldn't miss out on.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Do you know who actually owns the IP ?
(pure speculation on my part:
since westwind and grindhouse are listed as publishers on the original could it be that it's a co-owned property that westwind was going to be taking on solo
and so having to pay royalties to grindhouse on their share ?

Nahh Grindhouse were involved in the whole thing from the start. I believe they write the rules/background and Westwind does the artwork, layout, models and publishing (I think...)

Ah well that scuppers that idea then

I don't think there was any Grindhouse/West Wind conflict here...

Though at this point, who knows for sure?

I want to make clear I wasn't suggesting a conflict (there's certainly no sign of one),

just wondering if they co-owned the game but since Grindhouse was busy re-booting incursion Westwind might have been flying solo on this one (and so paying to use Grindhouses 'share' of the property)

Really disappointing that this KS didn't complete.

Hopefully they have done most of the work towards second edition, as well as the new factions, and can get them up on pre-order soon..

I think another problem with the KS is the lack of incentive with freebies. These days KS seem to give out a lot of free stuff. The successful ones, Zombiecide, Sedition Wars, etc. had a bunch of extras. The stretch goals were pretty bland. Overall I am sad this didn't take off. I own 2 complete armies for SOTR and I think it's a fantastic game with a great background.

There was a potential for a lot of free figures - I think.

The whole Lost Company looked to be stretch goals.

But, I'm not sure if they were to be free?

Still seriously sad at this one getting cancelled...

Me too brother. Me too.

Completely boring starters. Hey, a unique weird war game, now here's your generic soldiers.

I'm quite surprised this one dropped, but then if they looked at the numbers and decided they couldn't do it, it's better to cancel earlier than later.

Nocturnus wrote:
I think another problem with the KS is the lack of incentive with freebies. These days KS seem to give out a lot of free stuff. The successful ones, Zombiecide, Sedition Wars, etc. had a bunch of extras. The stretch goals were pretty bland..

That's a difficultly with metal mini's and KS's of this scale. CMoN can afford to throw in dozens of extras because once they've covered the cost of the tooling they can get them banged out in China for peanuts(like 2-3p each) at staggering rate. Westwind cast stuff in house in England, so there's a much higher labour cost to the freebie minis, as well as a higher material cost. Westwind just can't afford to throw in more than a handful of free mini's due to the time/cost.

Still, I hope they manage to revive SOTR II in some form, even if it's staggered somewhat or they go the Nickstarter route.

yeah,
I had backed for the book
I was waiting to see all the weird before working out what I wanted.
The zombies deal for one looked like a bargain and was on my shopping list.

I imagine a lot of people were in the wait and see camp.


I can also see their shipping structure killing people's desire to pledge for a mix of stuff.
Anyone outside the UK backing for the book and a bunch of minis.
£10 shipping for the minis that are ready now.
£10 shipping for the book when it's ready.
£10 shipping for the remaining minis when they are ready!!!

Panic...

Surely most people would have just waited for a single shipment?

That shipping policy was only if you purposefully chose to spend your credit on different batches at different times. WW couldn't be expected to soak up people spending £5 here and £5 there as models were released.

I would imagine this staggered approach to releasing things in their plan was to allow them to also do commercial release of the same items at the same time (or shortly thereafter).

I guess we now just have to wait and see what happens to SOTRII and see if it surfaces before the inevitable Bolt Action/Konflikt '47 Weird War suppliment

yeah,
maybe.
But maybe when everyone else is holding their book and discussing/ playing the game, waiting for 6 months+ for your mechs will seem like a bad idea.

Panic...

 endtransmission wrote:
That shipping policy was only if you purposefully chose to spend your credit on different batches at different times. WW couldn't be expected to soak up people spending £5 here and £5 there as models were released.

I would imagine this staggered approach to releasing things in their plan was to allow them to also do commercial release of the same items at the same time (or shortly thereafter).

I guess we now just have to wait and see what happens to SOTRII and see if it surfaces before the inevitable Bolt Action/Konflikt '47 Weird War suppliment

What's a good place to find out more about Bolt Action's Wierd WWII game?

They had some on show at Salute actually, although to get specific it is not actually Warlord's own game.

Instead they were sharing some display and stall space with Clockwork Goblin, a company that has been selling 15mm Weird-war II up to now (you will find their company on a Google search).

They've mostly done 15mm up to now although looks like they are about to branch out into 28mm. I wonder actually if it is going to be a similar situation to Judge Dredd, where Warlord is the publisher for the game and will sell via their site, but won't actually be involved with rules or minis themselves. Of course, having access to Warlord's cheap and quite excellent infantry plastics would seem to make a lot of sense..

I actually know a couple of guys who work with Clockwork Goblin, I will have to ask what their plans are if I get the chance..

 Pacific wrote:
They had some on show at Salute actually, although to get specific it is not actually Warlord's own game.

Instead they were sharing some display and stall space with Clockwork Goblin, a company that has been selling 15mm Weird-war II up to now (you will find their company on a Google search).

They've mostly done 15mm up to now although looks like they are about to branch out into 28mm. I wonder actually if it is going to be a similar situation to Judge Dredd, where Warlord is the publisher for the game and will sell via their site, but won't actually be involved with rules or minis themselves. Of course, having access to Warlord's cheap and quite excellent infantry plastics would seem to make a lot of sense..

I actually know a couple of guys who work with Clockwork Goblin, I will have to ask what their plans are if I get the chance..

Please do!

Their game (in 28mm) could be just the thing to tide me over to when/if SoTRII actually gets released!

EDIT!

Word from West Wind in the comments section:

Creator Andy Cooper, West Wind Productions about 2 hours ago

Thanks everyone for taking time to post your kind words and also your views. This is by no means a fail, just not in the current offer which was not viable with the number of backers.

We are in talks with John Bailey and Ian Hill and looking at a good way forward for both rules and miniatures. So at the moment it's business as usual for West Wind and Forged in Battle. We will keep you posted as we have more information. Thanks again for your superb support.

Hey, that Incursion container of goodies should be with us at West Wind on Thursday! so we should be able to start shipping out the EU rewards a week on Monday.

No idea what that means for SoTRII though...

There isn't much for Konflikt '47 yet, other than a few sheets on the Clockwork Goblin website and an entry on Amazon for a bolt action supplement this time next year. As was mentioned earlier, CG being on the Bolt Action stand at Salute does seem to indicate an upcoming partnership though.

To save having this take over the SOTR thread, I'll start a CG one a bit later with some of the recent renders. You'll love them

Agreed - I'd love to have this thread serve as the News, Rumors and Rallying point for SoTR!

(but do let me know when you start that other one!)

 endtransmission wrote:

To save having this take over the SOTR thread, I'll start a CG one a bit later with some of the recent renders. You'll love them

I already posted them earlier in the thread

They now have their own thread, to keep things separate and save confusion

Creator Andy Cooper, West Wind Productions about 5 hours ago

Thanks for your comments everyone, if you have any specific questions regarding our plans as things progress, please email through to the office at mail@westwindproductions.co.uk rather than post them here. We promise to keep you all posted too, by sending out an Update.

I won't bug them there quite yet, but I'm eager to know just what is "Next" for SoTR...

yeah,
I wonder if they are interested in selling the zombie horde at the KS price... I'd love to buy a couple!

Panic...

If they would have just structured this Kickstarter differently, they would have sold a lot of everything to a lot of people...

Yep. I was a bit disappointed in both the structure of the campaign, as well as the length. 20 days is just not a lot of time for word to propagate, and people to have available funds without enough warning.

Also.. a lot of the infantry models are looking very dated. They could really use an update, either via new sculpts or 3D modeling.

 endtransmission wrote:

They said in their update that it wouldn't be coming back to KS, which is disappointing. I wonder how many people would have backed at £15 or £20 for pdf versions of the updated rules with nothing else? it certainly would have cur out the printing and postage costs

 Alpharius wrote:
A lot, I'd wager!

I didn't back as it didn't seem like especially good value, and I've got tons of "close enough" WW2 figures as it is, so I hit the 48-hour button and decided to wait and see. Just went looking now to see what happened to it.

As someone who hasn't played SotTR, I can't imagine myself paying £15 or £20 for pdf versions of the updated rules with nothing else in the hope that the rules work out well/I like them/will play them. Especially in a Kickstarter. Tamburlane has it right. Cheap or free PDF rules are a hook. Expensive PDFs are not.

I was excited by this project but (being brutally honest) the plastic incursion figures that arrived recently don't seem stuff enough for me to paint so I don't think I have enough to play platoon sized battles of certain factions. Now I'm tempted to sit back and see what Clockwork Goblin and Bolt Action can do.

Some...news?

http://www.westwindproductions-forum.co.uk/index.php?topic=4174.new;topicseen#new

Ostmann wrote:I spoke to Wendy they are still in discussion with the Baileys (they wrote original rules)

IT will take a while but they will be releasing the rules (they are pursing this and some models but it needs to be costed etc)

They will release an update when they can

Al