Im Realy Realy done with this retailer.
I ordered some City of Death buildings that got lost on the post way, not their fault... After Several Mails i got a Voucher cause i Said em i wanted to buy some space marine stuff.
Reordering the buildings from them Would have taken several weeks.
Now im waiting for my stuff for more than a month.
And it has not Even shipped!!!
If i ordered from elementgames or Even amazon i Would have Gotten my products, could have played with them and now im facing the Long planed Apokalypse game with my new blood angels in the Hope i can get my stuff painted in a hurry and get them in the local gw...
Otherwise im in real Trouble.
Sorry but Had to rage!!!
Such gak!!!


Edit 05.05.2015

I had a personal Conversation with Wayland and literally we were shaking hands and everything is Ok now, from my side.
When mistakes happen apologies must also be accepted.
Nice Step from Wayland!!!!!

Classic wayland games. This is why people should look at reviews or any forum. They get bashed a lot for being the new maelstrom/total wargamer

I stopped ordering GW from Wayland long ago after having similar issues.
Then, since I didn't order GW from them, I stopped using them altogether.
Element Games all the way.

Surely these guys have to be in their death throes by now? Off to the cemetery reserved for companies that display wrong stock information with you!

Order everything through them, never had any problems what so ever, always been great.

 Venerate1 wrote:
Surely these guys have to be in their death throes by now? Off to the cemetery reserved for companies that display wrong stock information with you!

Quite the opposite. People love a discount.

Firestorm games all the way!

 xbenblasterx wrote:
Firestorm games all the way!

+1 I've Firestorm to be much much much better.

Firestorm, Element & Troll Trader are all stores I'd not hesitate to order from.

Wayland have the biggest range though, so sometimes I do still order from them. Personally I've not had any issues.

 Venerate1 wrote:
Surely these guys have to be in their death throes by now? Off to the cemetery reserved for companies that display wrong stock information with you!

Actually last year was one of our best yet and we are continuing to grow. We just opened another FLGS last month and have another three in various stages of planning and resourcing. We have just invested in a range of new agreements with key suppliers to help us obtain large enough quantities of stock to fulfil our huge orders each month (a key problem which is the main cause of the issues our customers have faced in the past). Our new webstore has clearer stock information too but I appreciate that as it only went live in the last month so it does not help customers with older orders.

2013 had a number of one off costs and challenges which we had to deal with. Last year was back to business and represented a real improvement in every measure for us (barring anecdotal).

For the first few months of 2015, business has been really exciting for us with massive sales growth up over 50% like for like on last year (which in itself was a good year by any measure).

Having just come back from Salute, anyone who saw us there would struggle to connect us with a notion of being in our 'death throes'. We had double the size of any other retail stand, we had close to forty staff on hand to help customers and had more stock on our stand than any other retailer. And our sales on the day were massively up on last year. In fact when you looked at our offers, there was no 'clearance' or bargain basement style promotion (which to my mind really are the sign of a failing business desperate for cash). Rather we offered value, quality and had a great time where it was really gratifying to meet the many supporters and enthusiasts of Wayland Games (few of which post on forums clearly!)

But looking at forum posts like this one, although more than a few are begun or commented on by people with interests that are envious of Wayland's success, there are genuine customers who have had retail experiences with us that were not as good as they should have been. There is no point being disingenuous and pretending otherwise. When you have a large successful business in this industry, you are ultimately judged by how well regarded every single customer finds the retail experience with you. Because of this, the two key areas I am the most keen on improving is our communication and the time it takes to get customers orders out to them. We hold a terrific amount of stock, but popular items have been going out of stock faster than we were able to get them in. We have a number of measures in place or being developed which begin to address that and I am confident that as we continue to grow those two areas will measurably improve and reflect more the excellence found elsewhere in our business.

Well i ordered a vindicator, two drop pods,2 x assault marines and a few other standard marine items.
If you keep such high stock levels why is the order is not send and i wait 1 month?
For the Rest of your Post.
Empires Break from the border....


Edit

Btw when i google wayland games the Auto fulfil from google gives ne
Wayland games alternatives
Wayland Game Problems
Wayland Game Voucher
Wayland Games postage?
Wayland Games reliable

When looking at the hits and counting the posts from diffrent costumers who posted negative comments in 2015 i count more than 156, i stopped counting the posts then.
Example

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/631098.page
http://community.spartangames.co.uk/index.php?/topic/2647-just-a-little-warning-about-wayland-games/
http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=128365
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/580412.page

My bro in-law had a bit of a time due to lost post as well And had to wait 20 odd days before it was able to be despatched (but of course it was out of stock so 2 extra weeks were spent waiting for stock) this meant I got my birthday present around 7 weeks late lol.

That is probably a mixture of royal mail insurance and poor stock ordering.

On the flip side my wild west exodus order was shipped as soon as they received stock via DPD next day if the keep using DPD I will be sure to keep buying stuff

 winterwind85 wrote:
Well i ordered a vindicator, two drop pods,2 x assault marines and a few other standard marine items.
If you keep such high stock levels why is the order is not send and i wait 1 month?
For the Rest of your Post.
Empires Break from the border....

As I said, we are trying hard to get more stock in for these popular ranges (such as GW). Not quite sure what 'Empires Break from the Border' means exactly (but I can guess). Another good one is the cautionary 'Death from a Thousand Cuts', which is why I referred to my two key areas to focus on to make sure that important area is attended to.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 winterwind85 wrote:
Btw when i google wayland games the Auto fulfil from google gives ne
Wayland games alternatives
Wayland Game Problems
Wayland Game Voucher
Wayland Games postage?
Wayland Games reliable

Other than Problems (which is clearly customers looking for support), the rest seem perfectly reasonable searches. We offer a lot of alternatives, so that makes sense, everyone likes a voucher when shopping, so that one too makes sense. Postage, is a concern for most when ordering online (free shipping on orders over £40 at the moment), and the last one is great too. 'Wayland Games Reliable' is three words that belong together (without a question mark at the end! )

Interestingly my own use of google brings up the following on autofill:

Wayland Games Hockley
Wayland Game Southend
Wayland Game Reviews

Maybe it's a regional thing. Or it might be just the terms you have previously searched on...

I've had almost the same experience. Back in February last year I had to cancel a few orders since the delivery times were infinite as far as I could see. And I'm not just whining about not getting my new OP 40k unit, as none of said orders included GW products.

Seriously, don't even order from them as a joke. Go with Triple Helix or Element games instead.

 Stuart-Wayland wrote:

 Venerate1 wrote:
Surely these guys have to be in their death throes by now? Off to the cemetery reserved for companies that display wrong stock information with you!

Actually last year was one of our best yet and we are continuing to grow. We just opened another FLGS last month and have another three in various stages of planning and resourcing. We have just invested in a range of new agreements with key suppliers to help us obtain large enough quantities of stock to fulfil our huge orders each month (a key problem which is the main cause of the issues our customers have faced in the past). Our new webstore has clearer stock information too but I appreciate that as it only went live in the last month so it does not help customers with older orders.

2013 had a number of one off costs and challenges which we had to deal with. Last year was back to business and represented a real improvement in every measure for us (barring anecdotal).

For the first few months of 2015, business has been really exciting for us with massive sales growth up over 50% like for like on last year (which in itself was a good year by any measure).

Having just come back from Salute, anyone who saw us there would struggle to connect us with a notion of being in our 'death throes'. We had double the size of any other retail stand, we had close to forty staff on hand to help customers and had more stock on our stand than any other retailer. And our sales on the day were massively up on last year. In fact when you looked at our offers, there was no 'clearance' or bargain basement style promotion (which to my mind really are the sign of a failing business desperate for cash). Rather we offered value, quality and had a great time where it was really gratifying to meet the many supporters and enthusiasts of Wayland Games (few of which post on forums clearly!)

But looking at forum posts like this one, although more than a few are begun or commented on by people with interests that are envious of Wayland's success, there are genuine customers who have had retail experiences with us that were not as good as they should have been. There is no point being disingenuous and pretending otherwise. When you have a large successful business in this industry, you are ultimately judged by how well regarded every single customer finds the retail experience with you. Because of this, the two key areas I am the most keen on improving is our communication and the time it takes to get customers orders out to them. We hold a terrific amount of stock, but popular items have been going out of stock faster than we were able to get them in. We have a number of measures in place or being developed which begin to address that and I am confident that as we continue to grow those two areas will measurably improve and reflect more the excellence found elsewhere in our business.

If you are managing to turn round acar-crash year then all power to you. However the level of service I and many of of the gaming community associate with Wayland at the moment, you are going to have to do more than turn up to a convention where people have money to burn anyway and claim a big win. Paying for a product you have been told is ins tock, only to have your money taken and no package for months leaves a much more bitter taste than 'envy'.

I've ordered from Wayland a handful of times this year. My only problem really is with the lack of information about my order. Would be good if there was more information on the status of the order like "On order from GW.. Expected Xth of Yuary" and "Arrived at warehouse" etc. really feel a bit left in the dark during the few weeks of waiting.

Other than that the prices are great and it's worth the extra wait.

Absolutely Garcon, communication is a key area.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Venerate1 wrote:

If you are managing to turn round acar-crash year then all power to you. However the level of service I and many of of the gaming community associate with Wayland at the moment, you are going to have to do more than turn up to a convention where people have money to burn anyway and claim a big win. Paying for a product you have been told is ins tock, only to have your money taken and no package for months leaves a much more bitter taste than 'envy'.

I apologise if I gave the impression in my previous post said that all we are doing was turning up to Salute. I was pretty sure everything else in my post said to the contrary, but it may have lost something in the translation.

Of course as your issue is about a delayed order, it is absolutely an issue we want to work on improving. Drop me a PM and give me the order details relating to your order that was delayed by months and I'll sort things out for you. Or just PM me your real name, and I'll be able to easily find it that way as there are very, very (very) few orders that have actually been delayed by several months.

 Stuart-Wayland wrote:
Absolutely Garcon, communication is a key area.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Venerate1 wrote:

If you are managing to turn round acar-crash year then all power to you. However the level of service I and many of of the gaming community associate with Wayland at the moment, you are going to have to do more than turn up to a convention where people have money to burn anyway and claim a big win. Paying for a product you have been told is ins tock, only to have your money taken and no package for months leaves a much more bitter taste than 'envy'.

I apologise if I gave the impression in my previous post said that all we are doing was turning up to Salute. I was pretty sure everything else in my post said to the contrary, but it may have lost something in the translation.

Of course as your issue is about a delayed order, it is absolutely an issue we want to work on improving. Drop me a PM and give me the order details relating to your order that was delayed by months and I'll sort things out for you. Or just PM me your real name, and I'll be able to easily find it that way as there are very, very (very) few orders that have actually been delayed by several months.

No thanks, we're going back about 18 months when I stopped ordering from you guys. Apologies to OP for thread hijack!

In my experience, Wayland Games are a joke. They never filled me with confidence.

Dark Sphere, Element, Firestorm are all better.

Never, ever go with Wayland Games. YMMV, of course, but I hate them.

Probably should crop the first image to deal with the name, Winter.

Thanks for the tip but everyone can see my name, no Problem.
I posted it to make the Problem public.
Interesting fact , wayland joined the conversation telling everyone how Great and big their business is and when there is a Public evidence that there Are Problems is Not seen again!!!

Standard pattern. Look back through the posts for manes mentioned above.

Decent selection, very long delivery times. Thats been Wayland for years. The only reason I use them is that their range appearsto be uunrivaled.

My experience with wayland was also terrible. I was just getting back into whfb after a 10 year break and unfortunately fell into ordering from Wayland as they were a couple quid cheaper. I put the order in on a Friday and was told on the phone that they would order the stock from Gw (or wherever) on the Monday, they would expect to receive said stock on the Thursday at which point it would be posted to myself to be received on the sat or early the next week.

Well fast forward 9 days nothing received so I phoned them and the lady told me that they hadn't even put the order in to gw yet so it would be at least another 2 weeks before I would have gotten my items. Needless to say I cancelled and went with element gaming and received my items the next day.

So Wayland, these new stores. Are they going into areas with already operating FLGS or are you going into areas screaming for a store?

Obviously Wayland is Not Checking this Thread After Doing their advertisement

Wow just wow. Instead of fixing the OP problem the company rep jumps in the thread to say how well they are doing as a company. That would be all the info I need to never order from them. It like some companies go out of their way to hire the worse people for PR.

Noir wrote:
Wow just wow. Instead of fixing the OP problem the company rep jumps in the thread to say how well they are doing as a company. That would be all the info I need to never order from them. It like some companies go out of their way to hire the worse people for PR.

Made me chuckle also, It would have been better for him to not even post eh.

 Rayvon wrote:

Noir wrote:
Wow just wow. Instead of fixing the OP problem the company rep jumps in the thread to say how well they are doing as a company. That would be all the info I need to never order from them. It like some companies go out of their way to hire the worse people for PR.

Made me chuckle also, It would have been better for him to not even post eh.

He convinced me to never ever consider buying from
Him.

I'm glad he posted.

I'll keep posting in all these negative Wayland threads till be replies gentleman, don't worry.

Because I have an idea where they are going next, and they are planning on ruining a FLGS.

Noir wrote:
Wow just wow. Instead of fixing the OP problem the company rep jumps in the thread to say how well they are doing as a company. That would be all the info I need to never order from them. It like some companies go out of their way to hire the worse people for PR.

Actually, if you read the post by the chap from Wayland it was in response to a comment that the company was in its death throws.

It sounds like he has spoken to the OP as well, so I don't think it's unreasonably to reply if someone is making a claim that your company is about to go under?

I recently placed an order with Wayland,, last Friday in fact. I also placed an order with Element Games the next day. Both order were for various Batman Miniatures and both stores had stock levels. The status on my Wayland order still shows as payment accepted and I've emailed to get an update and had no response. So no movement on this order for a week.

Element games dispatched my order on Monday, sent me an email about 1 item out that was out of stock and that it would be sent no charge. The original order is due today and I received a shipping confirmation that the out of stock item shipped yesterday.

If I thought that Wayland looked at email correspondence, I'd cancel my order! Lesson learnt though.

Hope you get sorted OP.

Element always get my money since they answer the phone and are happy to help you match up paints which can't be found online. They sorted me out with matching GW into Vallejo when even Dakka couldn't. Not just about the discount, but it is nice

 Pacific wrote:

Noir wrote:
Wow just wow. Instead of fixing the OP problem the company rep jumps in the thread to say how well they are doing as a company. That would be all the info I need to never order from them. It like some companies go out of their way to hire the worse people for PR.

Actually, if you read the post by the chap from Wayland it was in response to a comment that the company was in its death throws.

It sounds like he has spoken to the OP as well, so I don't think it's unreasonably to reply if someone is making a claim that your company is about to go under?

Not if he knew one thing about how PR works. Like someone posted after me, he shouldn't of posted at all. You know how to answer post of going under, you don't. Sells/cost reports are all the answer needed.

 Stuart-Wayland wrote:

 Venerate1 wrote:
Surely these guys have to be in their death throes by now? Off to the cemetery reserved for companies that display wrong stock information with you!

Actually last year was one of our best yet and we are continuing to grow. We just opened another FLGS last month and have another three in various stages of planning and resourcing. We have just invested in a range of new agreements with key suppliers to help us obtain large enough quantities of stock to fulfil our huge orders each month (a key problem which is the main cause of the issues our customers have faced in the past). Our new webstore has clearer stock information too but I appreciate that as it only went live in the last month so it does not help customers with older orders.

2013 had a number of one off costs and challenges which we had to deal with. Last year was back to business and represented a real improvement in every measure for us (barring anecdotal).

For the first few months of 2015, business has been really exciting for us with massive sales growth up over 50% like for like on last year (which in itself was a good year by any measure).

Having just come back from Salute, anyone who saw us there would struggle to connect us with a notion of being in our 'death throes'. We had double the size of any other retail stand, we had close to forty staff on hand to help customers and had more stock on our stand than any other retailer. And our sales on the day were massively up on last year. In fact when you looked at our offers, there was no 'clearance' or bargain basement style promotion (which to my mind really are the sign of a failing business desperate for cash). Rather we offered value, quality and had a great time where it was really gratifying to meet the many supporters and enthusiasts of Wayland Games (few of which post on forums clearly!)

But looking at forum posts like this one, although more than a few are begun or commented on by people with interests that are envious of Wayland's success, there are genuine customers who have had retail experiences with us that were not as good as they should have been. There is no point being disingenuous and pretending otherwise. When you have a large successful business in this industry, you are ultimately judged by how well regarded every single customer finds the retail experience with you. Because of this, the two key areas I am the most keen on improving is our communication and the time it takes to get customers orders out to them. We hold a terrific amount of stock, but popular items have been going out of stock faster than we were able to get them in. We have a number of measures in place or being developed which begin to address that and I am confident that as we continue to grow those two areas will measurably improve and reflect more the excellence found elsewhere in our business.

2015 and nothing changes with you guys.

The Division Of Joy wrote:
I'll keep posting in all these negative Wayland threads till be replies gentleman, don't worry.

Because I have an idea where they are going next, and they are planning on ruining a FLGS.

I can assure you that we are great supporters of FLGS's as these stores are where the hobby flourishes and new players are recruited. Without a strong local presence and a place to gather, play and buy this hobby would be short lived.

 eskimo wrote:
Hope you get sorted OP.

Element always get my money since they answer the phone and are happy to help you match up paints which can't be found online. They sorted me out with matching GW into Vallejo when even Dakka couldn't. Not just about the discount, but it is nice

Our customer service team always answer the phone in office hours and are more than happy to assist with any requests and assistance we can offer.

fleegle23 wrote:
I recently placed an order with Wayland,, last Friday in fact. I also placed an order with Element Games the next day. Both order were for various Batman Miniatures and both stores had stock levels. The status on my Wayland order still shows as payment accepted and I've emailed to get an update and had no response. So no movement on this order for a week.

Element games dispatched my order on Monday, sent me an email about 1 item out that was out of stock and that it would be sent no charge. The original order is due today and I received a shipping confirmation that the out of stock item shipped yesterday.

If I thought that Wayland looked at email correspondence, I'd cancel my order! Lesson learnt though.

We do look at e-mail correspondence, simply drop us a line at support@waylandgames.co.uk or raise a ticket here: support.waylandgames.co.uk and we will be more than happy to resolve any issues you may have with your order.

I'm glad you are fans of FLGS. And I'm sure you'll know that they can't offer quite the discount and stock you can. So again, and a straight yes or no answer please, are the towns or cities you plan on opening stores at already served by a local FLGS. I don't care about GW stores.

"We do look at e-mail correspondence, simply drop us a line at support@waylandgames.co.uk or raise a ticket here: support.waylandgames.co.uk and we will be more than happy to resolve any issues you may have with your order. "

If you read my post you would see I had contacted you but had no reply. I contacted you again today to say please cancel the order, and got a message to say my order had been held up due to an item being out of stock, but you had sent the rest today. Despite this my order still says 'Payment Accepted"

Motograter wrote:
Classic wayland games. This is why people should look at reviews or any forum. They get bashed a lot for being the new maelstrom/total wargamer

Maelstrom's issues were totally different. They were great, fast and efficient - and even great at fixing up issues until right before the end, when they started lying to customers and not supplying things. Wayland's issues are a bit different, and (many of them) have been ongoing for years now. I do agree with reading reviews and getting feedback about retailers, as with any other service or product.

I'm not currently an active customer of Wayland's for reasons I've written about before, but I do order from Firestorm and Troll Trader (as well as Warlord and Foundry directly) and I've recently added Arcane Scenery & Models to my list (no discount, but free post). As with FSG and TT, they have live stock levels and my order went out just hours after placing it. I understand that Wayland's reasoning for delayed processing times is due to the size and volume of their organisation, but to me that's not my problem, and I'll all the happier to support smaller indies with my purchases.

The Division Of Joy wrote:
I'm glad you are fans of FLGS. And I'm sure you'll know that they can't offer quite the discount and stock you can. So again, and a straight yes or no answer please, are the towns or cities you plan on opening stores at already served by a local FLGS. I don't care about GW stores.

We have plans over the next decade to open lots of FLGS across the UK. We have identified a few sites and if you want to give me a call I'd be happy to chat about our retail strategy with you. Of course I'm not at liberty to go into detail here on an open forum, but Division Of Joy, I feel I can trust you to keep a confidence and so if you give me a call on the Wayland number we can have a chat. So I know it's you, can you ask to speak to me, Stuart, and give them your username here. They will then put you through to my red phone (the secured line) and we can talk privately. If there is a specific store you are worried about us ruining, let me know what it is called and I'll be sure to make a note of it. I'm not looking to unduly ruin anyone.

In more general terms I can't promise that those dozens of towns and cities we open in won't have another FLGS in them (London, Nottingham, Birmingham, Glasgow etc are large enough to support more than one). There are also areas where the FLGS isn't giving the best service that we think a bricks and mortar store can provide and the community has asked for us to consider putting a store there (like a fabulous blue and orange hobby life-raft).

But I can tell you that we do not specifically plan on opening stores where there is already an FLGS - it is not some kind of hideous plan for us to snuff out the FLGS across Europe. We would rather work together with FLGS across Europe as a grand coalition than for us to set about in futile competition against each other.

Building Better Worlds.

Stuart/Jake

So after a week of no movement on my order, I receive two messages within hours of each other, telling me completely different things...

Hi David,

Unfortunately one of the items in your order was not in stock when you ordered it. This has delayed the shipment of your order. I have arranged for the rest of the items to be shipped today and Clayface will follow shortly.

Kind Regards

Hi David,

Apologies for this matter as I am unable to find an email from you recently.
We are currently only missing the Arkham City Sickle and Arkham City Joker Crew.
Would you like these two items removed and credited or refunded so that the rest of you order can be shipped out to you as soon as possible?

Kind Regards

I've checked the status of the order and it has not shipped and is still showing as Payment Accepted. The order number is LDKELXHWF. Please cancel this order and refund please.
Surely you must see, a week after ordering items that were showing in stock, to have no communication until I send two requests, the second to cancel my order, is very poor service. To compound it when I do receive a reply, it's completely conflicting information.

Thanks

Same as it ever was, by the sound of things.

An amazing wall of text, containing a lot of non committal rubbish.

There's a reason I, and others in the gaming community don't want a 'chat' or anything else. Because these threads flash up on search engines. And thousands of people read them.

I hope you pick on the wrong community and get bitten on your snake like behind . You can see my location, so we'll see if it ends up near me..

The sad thing was that I used Maelstrom Games and they were the best company and their communications were second to none.

All orders were sent with 2 weeks of purchase even in the middle of your northern winter.

The Division Of Joy wrote:
An amazing wall of text, containing a lot of non committal rubbish.

There's a reason I, and others in the gaming community don't want a 'chat' or anything else. Because these threads flash up on search engines. And thousands of people read them.

I hope you pick on the wrong community and get bitten on your snake like behind . You can see my location, so we'll see if it ends up near me..

My snake-like behind? That's a little rude, sure I have a little eczema on my backside and I thought I had it under control but thanks for posting it on this thread. Now because these threads flash up on search engines literally thousands of people will read about my skin condition.

Your location is Lincolnshire right? So I guess the closest to you would be those brilliant guys at Titan Games? Fantastic store from what I hear. I can assure you that at present we have no plans to open a retail store in sunny Lichfield.

A thread highlighting exactly how communication with customers should not be done.

I buy from Element Games after a few rather lengthy delays from Wayland and a complete lack of communication on their part.

I think the longest I have ever spent between hitting "place order" and getting my stuff from Element Games has been a couple of days. An accurate stock link between website and warehouse certainly helped that I'm sure

A little advice for the Wayland rep that's commenting here.
It would go over far better if you wouldn't use humor as it seems like you're not taking complaints seriously enough. Just use simple, professional writing and you'll get much better reactions.

Lincoln actually. And fingers crossed it stays that way for both Lichfield and us.

And keep up the passive aggressive nature, this is all good search engine fodder.

As a retailer, i found this thread interesting.

Wouldn't the best way to regain some customer goodwill and combat negative posts be to just fix people's problems and ship them the items they ordered?

And the worst way to go about it be to just talk about how you are fixing things and how good you are, and then not fix those problems?

My personal guess:

Cash flow problems, and poor inventory control. It's not that stock is selling too fast. That normally just means profits come in faster as well. They probably are behind on cash flow, and even though they have the money from customers, they don't have enough to keep orders flowing in. A case of needing new orders to generate the money they need to pay for more stock.

By poor inventory control, i mean selling items that your inventory shows as in stock. This confuses the hell out of people. Ordering in stock items means your shipment goes out. Not a message a couple of weeks later that you have to wait even longer.

Lack of funds also means lack of employee hours for filling orders, making sure real inventory matches what's posted online, reading emails, and fixing problems.

The ironic thing, is that an efficiently run company makes more profits. The cashflow strapped one wastes a lot of time putting out fires, refunding money, and fixing problems. And they have less time to analyze their problems and find fixes. So neither they, nor their customers are happy about how things are running.

interesting fact, i got not a single mail answering my problems so far, but my order that i bought long time ago in another store is now on its way... says so ..;-)
we will see.
interesting fact.


wayland uses threads about bad business behaviour to advertise their new business strategy and not answering one of my posts.
they actually never adressed me.
im tempted to make a homepage with all the bad facts about wayland and spread it over facebook, twitter etc etc...
maybe this will hrt them?

 Stuart-Wayland wrote:

On the plus side it's mostly just the same old stuff from the same old posters. The important bit is to keen an eye out for genuine customers with genuine concerns. Those are the ones that make checking these threads important - they are the ones who need actual help.

Just thought I'd transplant this from the other thread about Wayland's poor service as it might get missed now that it's been locked.

I hadn't participated in either thread, as I'd no particular axe to grind, Wayland seem unable to match the speed of dispatch and general support of other retailers, so I simply don't use them, but I've never felt particularly aggrieved on any time I have used them in the past.

This comment, however, I'm not prepared to let pass without comment. It seems to betray an attitude of Workshopian dimensions and frankly Stuart, if I caught one of my staff communicating this way with customers in private, let alone in the largest public forum on the planet dedicated to the market my business catered to, I'd hand down a bollocking so hard I'd render your descendants sterile.

Here's a tip - it isn't in the least bit important whether you consider the "same old posters" to have genuine complaints or not, if someone complains, fething deal with it. Promptly, efficiently and in a professional manner. You don't get to decide if a complaint is worth dealing with or not.

No wonder these threads keep occurring every month or two, Wayland never changes and it appears that at least one staff member doesn't seem to think that it's a problem.

Well, the hubris and disdain of the comment is Workshopian......

But whatever other complaints anyone has had about GW, it's never been about their customer service in fixing problems. They still seem to have that going for them, replacing bad product or missing pieces nearly immediately. Even now, when they only warehouse full kits, and no bitz, i'm encouraged as a retailer to fix customer problems and they reimburse me with full kits, and don't quibble about the left overs, or having damaged boxes returned to them.

 Stuart-Wayland wrote:

The Division Of Joy wrote:
An amazing wall of text, containing a lot of non committal rubbish.

There's a reason I, and others in the gaming community don't want a 'chat' or anything else. Because these threads flash up on search engines. And thousands of people read them.

I hope you pick on the wrong community and get bitten on your snake like behind . You can see my location, so we'll see if it ends up near me..

My snake-like behind? That's a little rude, sure I have a little eczema on my backside and I thought I had it under control but thanks for posting it on this thread. Now because these threads flash up on search engines literally thousands of people will read about my skin condition.

Your location is Lincolnshire right? So I guess the closest to you would be those brilliant guys at Titan Games? Fantastic store from what I hear. I can assure you that at present we have no plans to open a retail store in sunny Lichfield.

This is exactly what a pr rep should not do.

 MWHistorian wrote:
A little advice for the Wayland rep that's commenting here.
It would go over far better if you wouldn't use humour as it seems like you're not taking complaints seriously enough. Just use simple, professional writing and you'll get much better reactions.

In all these comments there are actually only two from customers with a current issue and both were sorted as quickly as we could. I appreciate with all the other banter on the thread it makes it hard to see (and I accept I play a part in that for the casual observer).

I would say though that at no point have I used humour to downplay a customer's issue. I only tend to use it when people are either calling me a snake, telling me I'm part of some plan to ruin someone's shop or that I've got a brilliant business strategy whereby I run a multi-million pound business based on earning interest on people's orders and then cancelling them. Or that my business is about to go bust. All of which are more likely a case of the need to tilt at windmills.

Those kind of things I don't take seriously. Interestingly the people that seem to get the most upset that I'm not taking them seriously are the people who are making these bizarre allegations. But I understand how it can play out to a casual observer so I'll lower my eyebrows as I'm typing my responses to the peanut gallery in future. Besides, it makes sense that really I should focus on the occasional customer with a problem that their raise on here as we have done.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Here's a tip - it isn't in the least bit important whether you consider the "same old posters" to have genuine complaints or not, if someone complains, fething deal with it. Promptly, efficiently and in a professional manner. You don't get to decide if a complaint is worth dealing with or not.

I think my point may have been lost amongst the banter. Let me be clear:

Do I believe that there is an element of forum user who enjoys the drama and general discourse on these threads and contributes even though they have no direct involvement in the issue from the OP and cannot meaningfully move the conversation forward? Absolutely.

You only have to look back to see people making reference to the fact that they've never used Wayland, but then give their opinion anyway. The nature of forums means everyone is able to give their opinion. That does not mean that they all carry equal or (for some) any weight compared to the issues raised by real customers with real concerns. There have only been two customers on this thread who have a current issue that I could affect. There were also a couple pof comments by customers that had received improving service by us and a few by customers whoi had agreat experience with us. The rest is just people giving their opinion who are either uninvolved entirely or wish to pass comment on some aspect of the conversation.

Do I believe that we need to be better at communicating with our customers? Yes of course. Do we need to get faster at getting ordered goods out? Yes we are working on improving that too.

Do I need to stop taking the bait when the same faces make the same baseless allegations... probably.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 winterwind85 wrote:
interesting fact, i got not a single mail answering my problems so far, but my order that i bought long time ago in another store is now on its way... says so ..;-)

Apologies Winterwind85, my understanding is that you have no outstanding orders with us and everything you have ordered has been shipped last week.

If that is not the case please either PM me or get in touch with our helpdesk and we'll get it sorted.

you are such a joke man, as my first post clearly said
I WANTED A fething REFUND!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I BOUGHT THE ITEMS IN A DIFFRENT STORE!!!!!!
AND THE HELL YOUR fething SUPPORT DID NOT ANSWER A SINGLE E MAIL, IM WRITING TO YOU FOR MORE THAN 2 WEEKS!!!!!!!!!!
If you like i can upload all the e mails as evidence for rhe audience
pray to god we never meet in reallife man...

 winterwind85 wrote:
Im Realy Realy done with this retailer.
I ordered some City of Death buildings that got lost on the post way, not their fault... After Several Mails i got a Voucher cause i Said em i wanted to buy some space marine stuff.
Reordering the buildings from them Would have taken several weeks.
Now im waiting for my stuff for more than a month.
And it has not Even shipped!!!
If i ordered from elementgames or Even amazon i Would have Gotten my products, could have played with them and now im facing the Long planed Apokalypse game with my new blood angels in the Hope i can get my stuff painted in a hurry and get them in the local gw...
Otherwise im in real Trouble.
Sorry but Had to rage!!!
Such gak!!!

 winterwind85 wrote:
you are such a joke man, as my first post clearly said
I WANTED A fething REFUND!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I BOUGHT THE ITEMS IN A DIFFRENT STORE!!!!!!
AND THE HELL YOUR fething SUPPORT DID NOT ANSWER A SINGLE E MAIL, IM WRITING TO YOU FOR MORE THAN 2 WEEKS!!!!!!!!!!
If you like i can upload all the e mails as evidence for rhe audience
pray to god we never meet in reallife man...

Apologies Winterwind85, but I can't see where you had asked for a refund in your original post. My understanding is that all orders have either been shipped or refunded. If there is a particular order that hasn't either been shipped or refunded, please let us know either in a PM or on our helpdesk and I'll get it sorted out straight away for you.

Entschuldigung für die Verwirrung.

i already wrote 3 mails to your "helpdesk" asking for a refund from my last voucher, 21 pounds....

Just a casual observer putting in my 2 cents.

Stuart, this thread has turned into a perfect example of why Wayland Games should get better about answering customer complaints, promptly, and in private (email). This thread, among others, doesn't paint your company in such a great light.

I am a very small online retailer (ebay). I promptly answer any complaints a customer may have. The last thing I need, is for a disgruntled customer complaining about my store, on a public forum.

That, and false stock levels are the biggest problems WG has. These threads pop up to often for it to be coincidence.

When you tell someone you have something in stock, only to turn around and tell them it is on order, you violate a customers trust. Is that really the business model that WG wants to follow?

 Stuart-Wayland wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Here's a tip - it isn't in the least bit important whether you consider the "same old posters" to have genuine complaints or not, if someone complains, fething deal with it. Promptly, efficiently and in a professional manner. You don't get to decide if a complaint is worth dealing with or not.

I think my point may have been lost amongst the banter. Let me be clear:

Do I believe that there is an element of forum user who enjoys the drama and general discourse on these threads and contributes even though they have no direct involvement in the issue from the OP and cannot meaningfully move the conversation forward? Absolutely.

You only have to look back to see people making reference to the fact that they've never used Wayland, but then give their opinion anyway. The nature of forums means everyone is able to give their opinion. That does not mean that they all carry equal or (for some) any weight compared to the issues raised by real customers with real concerns. There have only been two customers on this thread who have a current issue that I could affect. There were also a couple pof comments by customers that had received improving service by us and a few by customers whoi had agreat experience with us. The rest is just people giving their opinion who are either uninvolved entirely or wish to pass comment on some aspect of the conversation.

Decided not to take the advice about being professional then?

Let me be clear. As a representative of your employer, you're not allowed an opinion. Your 'banter' is undermining your position and making you come across in a manner that does you and the company you're representing no favours at all.

Every single person on this board is a potential customer or an actual one, therefore all their opinions carry weight. Your company has a problem as evidenced by the consistent appearance of threads such as this one over the entire time I've been a registered user. These threads continue to appear despite constant assurances from people like yourself that things have been updated/replaced/expanded etc, etc. You not only have a systemic problem, you've got a PR one too. People don't use you because of the reputation you've developed for being slow to dispatch and clumsy in your after sales. These people are all potential customers whose contribution you've just dismissed as 'being dramatic.'

Do I believe that we need to be better at communicating with our customers? Yes of course. Do we need to get faster at getting ordered goods out? Yes we are working on improving that too.

Well, respectfully, work harder, because whatever you're doing isn't enough. Might I suggest that pumping resources into new locations, a game development studio and any other plates that are spinning in the background before you've got this house in order isn't necessarily the correct priority?

Do I need to stop taking the bait when the same faces make the same baseless allegations... probably.

Probably?

Definitely. You're not here as an individual hobbyist, you're here as a representative of Wayland Games. You're not doing very well at that right now. I appreciate you're trying to be light hearted and friendly, but the problem with that is people who are pissed off with your service are unlikely to take a very positive view of your jocularity, much better to be polite and to the point, leave the 'bantz' for down the pub or when you're logged in under your own username and not representing the company.

On a personal note, I once attempted to order "in stock items" from WG. Waited two weeks as my "payment was accepted". Finally, contacted your customer support. Waited another 3 business days for a response that you were having trouble re ordering the items. Asked to cancel my order and waited another 5 business days for that.



Slightly off topic but I showed this to one of our PR/Social media managers at my office. Granted she has no idea what Warhammer is .She saved this thread for new hires, on"how not to interact with clients"

 Azreal13 wrote:
I appreciate you're trying to be light hearted and friendly, but the problem with that is people who are pissed off with your service are unlikely to take a very positive view of your jocularity.

I think that's a fair point. On reflection I have let my frustration get the better of me a couple of times. I'll will have to try harder to ignore the personal comments and baseless accusations about the company and the people who work for me and instead keep focussing on the customer issues that get raised.

I genuinely do believe that as a business we are better today than we were yesterday and will be better tomorrow but I appreciate that is slim comfort for the guys who had order problems. But rather than how awesome Wayland Games is as a business, a couple of comments have been about me personally and that is not where this conversation needs to be. So let's redress that starting now.

 Stuart-Wayland wrote:
I'll will have to try harder to ignore the personal comments and baseless accusations about the company and the people who work for me and instead keep focussing on the customer issues that get raised.

I genuinely do believe that as a business we are better today than we were yesterday and will be better tomorrow but I appreciate that is slim comfort for the guys who had order problems. But rather than how awesome Wayland Games is as a business, a couple of comments have been about me personally and that is not where this conversation needs to be. So let's redress that starting now.

Please Show me the personal comments?
The only one is Mine when i told you that im gonna Beat up Ur....and thats Realy the only one.
Every complaint in his topic was about orders gone wrong etc...
This are obviously not baseless accusations?
Obviously many People experience such Problems.
No One, Realy no One is interested if Your Business will be better or whatever.
Answer the concrete d Problems , why is wayland games so often told to be Slow to dispatch or to be concrete.

Why Had i to wait for 1 month for a few lousy space marines?
Just answer me this question

 winterwind85 wrote:

Why Had i to wait for 1 month for a few lousy space marines?
Just answer me this question

With apologies, there was a delay in stock for your order being received and then being despatched. As I understand it all orders you have with us have now either been shipped or refunded. If you believe that you still have an order that has not been shipped or refunded please let me know as a PM or a message on our helpdesk and I'll get it looked into for you.

 Azreal13 wrote:

 Stuart-Wayland wrote:

On the plus side it's mostly just the same old stuff from the same old posters. The important bit is to keen an eye out for genuine customers with genuine concerns. Those are the ones that make checking these threads important - they are the ones who need actual help.

Just thought I'd transplant this from the other thread about Wayland's poor service as it might get missed now that it's been locked.

I hadn't participated in either thread, as I'd no particular axe to grind, Wayland seem unable to match the speed of dispatch and general support of other retailers, so I simply don't use them, but I've never felt particularly aggrieved on any time I have used them in the past.

This comment, however, I'm not prepared to let pass without comment. It seems to betray an attitude of Workshopian dimensions and frankly Stuart, if I caught one of my staff communicating this way with customers in private, let alone in the largest public forum on the planet dedicated to the market my business catered to, I'd hand down a bollocking so hard I'd render your descendants sterile.

Here's a tip - it isn't in the least bit important whether you consider the "same old posters" to have genuine complaints or not, if someone complains, fething deal with it. Promptly, efficiently and in a professional manner. You don't get to decide if a complaint is worth dealing with or not.

No wonder these threads keep occurring every month or two, Wayland never changes and it appears that at least one staff member doesn't seem to think that it's a problem.

I am going to reply to a few posts for a while as I have an hour to comment. Not just replying to the post quoted but a few others and don't want it turning into a horrific nest of Quotes. We do listen to complaints, we don't like being criticized but we do listen and act as we want to keep everyone happy. I have often called people into the office to discuss issues and discover what on earth happened when something doesn't make sense to me.

We are larger than any other Independent in the UK at the moment. That isn't some grandiose claim of my ego its a fact and with it comes all sorts of issues. First if we are the largest, by definition we have the most customers and the most opportunity to upset customers. But we also send the most product out in a timely manner. It doesn't help those that have issues but it does prevent us from giving up when we read threads like this. Until everything arrives in a customers hands the next day we will be working to improve.

When I see posters on here claim that we have ignored them, I look at our helpdesk system and can see no such evidence, and lets make this clear I am not calling the poster a liar, but it is more than likely that the replies to their 3 attempts to contact us are caught in a spam type filter somewhere. If we become aware of such issues we can work at ensuring delivery rates from helpdesk emails are improved. We have dedicated support staff and they work hard helping customers. They are available 7 days a week. There is no point for us in lying and not helping customers. A customer with an issue that is resolved is actually far more likely to return to us knowing there is always help available. There is no point at all in us ignoring customers whatsoever. We do not hide from customer issues, it is in our interest to respond and solve issues as soon as possible. We want to talk to customers, we need customers to tell us what they like or dislike and what annoys them. We recently spent a significant sum on a customer survey and we are acting on all significant issues our customers raised.

We also carry the largest range of products, that in itself causes issues as it is simply impossible to keep everything in stock all the time. There is neither the money or supply chain to support it. By money it means that it would be insane for us to carry an item that we sell 1 off a year in any number if at all, and sometimes we will take a range, spend lots of money on it and only a fraction of the SKU's sell any at all. Also on the counter to this we tended to maintain low inventory of fast moving items that were very quickly available. We have over a million pounds of stock in our warehouse at trade prices as I type this and even that isn't enough to ensure everything is in stock all the time. We implemented a core range change a few months ago to ensure that the ranges that 80% of sales come from will be fully stocked come the late summer. It relies also on a Back-end system change that happens on or around June 2nd that should speed order turnaround up for those customers. This is an issue for us though but should improve soon.

What is also frustrating is seeing posters claim that we lie about stock levels, to be clear we do not lie about stock levels. Our sites for years have shown available stock as in stock on hand that is not linked to existing customer orders. There will be times where 1 or 2% of Sku's will have incorrect stock levels. This is due to mis picks, human error, shrinkage - taking stock to Salute etc (highest after Salute, lowest before). There is a constant process for rolling stock checks in our warehouse to catch and correct these. With the majority of the errors are related to non barcoded products.

There are obviously things we can and will do better, which we have significant plans to do. But it isn't all doom and gloom, our issues tend to be issues of growth and managing it. Our sales in this financial year are nearly double what they were for the same period last year. So I think some of the issues we have are difficult, but all our efforts are focussed on improvement. Please if you have an issue with us, step back a moment and try to imagine that we are not some monstrous entity trying to steal your money and ignore you. We actually do care, listen and fix issues.

 winterwind85 wrote:

The only one is Mine when i told you that im gonna Beat up Ur....and thats Realy the only one.

If you -- and indeed all posters/forum members could in fact not do this ever, it would be greatly appreciated.

Similarly repeatedly swearing at the person/persons you're dealing with is also not going to really help matters in any sensible way.

One appreciates that there's a grievance here that various posters do not think is being settled in an appropriate manner but that still does not excuse some of the language being used and it especially does not give one permission to make threats towards the well being of another forum member.

Take a deep breath, count to 10, grind those meditation balls, do what you have to do to stay calm.

Let's keep the war aspect purely in the gaming arena please.

Thank you.

[MOD EDIT - Please repost once you've removed any and all personal information from the e-mails - Alpharius]

You might want to '****'-out a lot of that post. It would have been better as a PM, but I expect that's already been sent.

As for the DPD 'signature', I had the same thing once. The package was with a neighbour, but we didn't know which one. The sig was my name, and there was no way I was there to sign for it. The neighbour brought it round later that week.
So, if the delivery driver dumped the package, or left it but mis-recorded it, there's little you can do. The only thing is to get the supplier to stop using that delivery company.
Not good, but It happened to me, too.

I'm not a Wayland Games customer due to a variety of issues I've had in the past. What makes me sad is I would like to be a customer, but then I see threads like this and it reminds me of what I could possibly be looking forward to with my order. Even the apologies read as disingenuous when coupled with the previous customer representative. I know tone in text is difficult to infer, and I don't doubt the sincerity, it justice comes across as bad from a PR standpoint.

What makes me truly sad is how many people are warned away from Wayland Games. For example in my small corner/social circle I am lucky that the majority of my friends are gamers or happy to give our nerdy world a try. And our gaming groups are slowly growing, at glacier pace admittedly, but still growing. We recently all decided to start a Warmachine slow grow league. The sad part was that everyone was warned away from Wayland due to many of us having bad experiences. Money went to other online stores and LGS. We didn't rant on the internet, just a quiet discussion amongst friends. I don't wish any ill on Wayland, they're just a company who try to do well by their customers and make a profit like any business. I just don't think they're aware of how badly they've alienated some customers, and at the end of the day more competition is good for everyone.

It's not going to be a quick fix, but nor is it insurmountable. Responses to threads like this don't help. Genuinely engage with your customers, go the extra mile where appropriate. Maybe a full time community manager if viable. You're only human, you'll have bad days and frak ups like every other person, and we'll get angry and call you out. However if you're seen to genuinely be trying, you might start just winning some lost customers back.

Sounds suspicious that the signed for name is the same as the neighbors. The driver would have been unlikely to know that and I'm sure Wayland would not have.

I don't always use wayland, GW stuff has some great suppliers as does mantic. For general orders Wayland has never disapointed me. My man dollies are in no way time sensitive so a short delay in delivery is nothing to me and the range is fantastic.

suspicious?
the name from the neighbours was given to the courier and the neighbours didnt got the package.
the name was given from the courier company to wayland so no idea whats susicious to you

 Skinnereal wrote:
You might want to '****'-out a lot of that post. It would have been better as a PM, but I expect that's already been sent.

Yes, please.

I've edited your post - please repost once ALL personal info is removed.

Also, please keep in mind RULE #1 at all times.

Thanks!

If I've been 'personal' it's because of the following.

You have been dismissive and unhelpful in the past. I've ordered with yourselves, as has many of the people I play with. Over 50% have had issues. You may have cleaned up your act. I have a FLGS now, and I enjoy supporting that. The FLGS across the country are the only real source of hobby in some towns.

Except that is now under threat. Because you are planning on opening stores that will eventually start eroding communities because they can't compete with the level of discount.

Like I said earlier, I hope you come nowhere near Lincoln. Or Colchester for that matter.

The main thing I dislike is the smug passive aggressive tone displayed on here.

It seems there are 2 key issues here that are being lost in a sea of vitriolic nerd-rage and passive-aggressive, holier-than-thou attitudes from Wayland staff:

1. The availability/stock indicators on the Wayland ARE misleading. I don't care whether you agree if they are or not, the sheer cacophonous volume and intensity of complaints from customers who have been stung by them (myself being one of them) should be evidence enough of this. Accepting payment from customers on the basis of certain availability and delivery times without being able to fulfill that commitment is at best unethical and at worst illegal. My own example was paying around £6 extra for next day delivery for an item that was advertised as "In Stock", to then find it wasn't and I would have to wait 2-3 weeks for the item to arrive. I understand that you have issues with your supply chain, that your new inventory system is still finding it's feet, that you communicate these issues as frequently and as loudly as you can, but the operative word in all of those explanations for poor service is "your". Those issues are for you to resolve, not for your customers to tolerate or even sympathise with. If you have issues with your supply chain, you should not expect your customers to have patience as you resolve them.

2. Your conduct on these forums is very poor. Rich seems to think that extensive essays explaining why Wayland's service is so bad will placate its angry customers and Stuart seems to think that making light of their customers valid complaints with sanctimonious sarcasm and thinly veiled self-congratulatory back-patting will let them off the hook (reading comments like "being the biggest and most successful independent wargaming retailer in the UK comes with challenges" makes me throw up in my mouth a little). If you weren't so defensive you might notice the growing "anti-Wayland" trend spreading within the community and stop to think why this occurring. I have so far never seen these kinds of complaints levelled against Firestorm, Element, Gifts for Geeks etc, and the fact you seem to be alone in what you called a "witch hunt" at one point, and the fact it doesn't seem to have died down after several years, should be cause for alarm, not petulance.

What doesn't help, however, is the conduct of some of the aggrieved users being even worse! I'm sorry, but no matter how valid your complaint is, vile language and physical threats of violence are utterly intolerable. I agree that Wayland could take a leaf out of GW's customer service book, but members of the community who use intimidation and bullying to try and win an argument about what are essentially plastic toys, should be hounded out of it like the bottom-feeding scumbags they are.

Being the biggest isn't a valid excuse as to why you are not the best.

In terms of GW's product, Wayland games are not the cheapest and are not the fastest and - as evidenced here - do not have the best customer service. I've never used them for anything other than 40K, but their shoddy service overall didn't exactly give me the confidence to try again.

There are many better alternatives.

I don't order on-line so I don't have a dog in this fight, just a passing observer.

But...

Ya shoulda taken my advice on being calm and professional.

 winterwind85 wrote:
suspicious?
the name from the neighbours was given to the courier and the neighbours didnt got the package.
the name was given from the courier company to wayland so no idea whats susicious to you

Didn't the company give the name to Wayland before you revealed it however? How did they know it if they did not deliver. Have you asked your friends parents?

my friends parents?
im 30 years old and my friends are far away from living by their parents, 2 houses 25 meters from each other and no other house around in 300 meters, just some realy small shops.
so.. only choice...

LAST WARNING!

Stay ON TOPIC and STAY POLITE!

And just so it is clear, breaking any of the rules and then apologizing for breaking said rule in the same post?

Not going to be good enough...

I have also received pretty shocking customer service from Weyland Games. I placed an order on the 13/04/15 this year. After waiting for 10 days (8 working days) I decided to give them a ring and see what the issue was. After waiting for about 10 minutes listening to really annoying waiting music on the phone I decided it was best to send an email.

Weyland then responded in a rather condescending manner with something to this effect "its 3 working days from dispatch as explained ...".

Now when I actually placed the order it said "Available to Order" which, silly me, I took to mean "In Stock". Now surprisingly enough I didn't actually cancel the order because I decided to see when my order would be dispatched. It was dispatched today 05/05/15, 22 days after I made payment. I haven't even received it yet and its been 22 days.

Dear Weyland Employees - I think the reason so many people are getting angry is because of this frankly byzantine piece of wording "Available to Order" why not "Out of Stock" or perhaps "Out of stock eta x Days". Now if you went into a bricks and mortar shop and asked for, lets say some, Skittles and they said "Sure thing" you paid and then had to wait almost a month for some Skittles you would be a bit miffed too!

I had a personal Conversation with Wayland and literally we were shaking hands and everything is Ok now, from my side.
When mistakes happen apologies must also be accepted.
Nice Step from Wayland!!!!!

 Mardy-Quief wrote:

Dear Weyland Employees - I think the reason so many people are getting angry is because of this frankly byzantine piece of wording "Available to Order" why not "Out of Stock" or perhaps "Out of stock eta x Days".

Wayland have addressed this directly on Dakka before - if you list an item as 'out of stock' then people won't order it, and it gives a negative impression of a store if you repeatedly visit the website to see an item out of stock.

 Riquende wrote:

 Mardy-Quief wrote:

Dear Weyland Employees - I think the reason so many people are getting angry is because of this frankly byzantine piece of wording "Available to Order" why not "Out of Stock" or perhaps "Out of stock eta x Days".

Wayland have addressed this directly on Dakka before - if you list an item as 'out of stock' then people won't order it, and it gives a negative impression of a store if you repeatedly visit the website to see an item out of stock.

I completely understand that perspective. Really I do. But you can't expect your customers to tolerate such ambiguity and lack of transparency. I get that the balance between maximising traffic on your store and not misleading/angering your customers is a difficult one, but you have to draw the line somewhere. I think the overwhelming consensus based on the frequency, intensity and duration of these Wayland-bashing threads shows that they havent drawn that line quite right.

By the logic of that argument, you would expect firestorm or element games to be struggling. Yet they are 100% transparent about their stock levels and product availability at the point of purchase, and are going from strength to strength.

To be honest though, that is an easier problem to solve. What the Wayland seniors should be more concerned by is the appalling attitude of their staff on forums like these. As another poster already argued, if I ran a retailer and I caught any of my staff talking to agrieved customers like that, they would be out of the door in the blink of an eye.

 Riquende wrote:

 Mardy-Quief wrote:

Dear Weyland Employees - I think the reason so many people are getting angry is because of this frankly byzantine piece of wording "Available to Order" why not "Out of Stock" or perhaps "Out of stock eta x Days".

Wayland have addressed this directly on Dakka before - if you list an item as 'out of stock' then people won't order it, and it gives a negative impression of a store if you repeatedly visit the website to see an item out of stock.

1. Then actually stock the items.
2. Showing in stock and then finding out after arm twisting that the item wasn't in stock is EVEN WORSE than showing it as zero stock. Now you've taken someones money fraudulently.

This issue has happened to me exactly 1 time. I ordered from The Warstore. One or two of the paints I ordered were in stock when I added to my cart, but another order went thru just before mine that got the in stock items. I called them up after getting my email from them that explained the issue, and swapped out one of the paints for another, and the other one they said they'd ship to me free of charge when they got it in. First package took all of 2 days to leave their warehouse, and the final paint showed up a week later, again having shipped within 48 hours of them getting it.

THAT is how you deal with inventory issues on orders. TheWarstore shows plenty of items as out of stock, and often gives expected times for restock, and even an option to get an email when the item is restocked on the website.

Quit showing that you have things for sale that you really don't. If you have trouble getting new stock, find a better distributor. If you can't be bothered to pay someone the hours to keep your website properly maintained, then you shouldn't be doing business on a website.

Hell even Bitz.co.uk kept their inventory updated, and they parted out every single GW plastic piece in production.

Seeing reports of this kind of issue pop up constantly over the last few months/years is getting tiresome. Either fix your company or close it if you can't figure out how to run it properly. Tom Kirby could probably do a better job managing the place at this point.

I had negative experience with WG aswell. I registered on their we cite, I entered my whole adress. They allowed me to make order on some GW stuff, and after I made payment showed message, that they can not in fact sand me this good because I leave in Kazakhstan (and I showed this in my adress beforehand didn't I?). I waited for refund for two weeks.

GW web store remains the cheapiest an safest sores of GW minis for me still.

 Riquende wrote:

 Mardy-Quief wrote:

Dear Weyland Employees - I think the reason so many people are getting angry is because of this frankly byzantine piece of wording "Available to Order" why not "Out of Stock" or perhaps "Out of stock eta x Days".

Wayland have addressed this directly on Dakka before - if you list an item as 'out of stock' then people won't order it, and it gives a negative impression of a store if you repeatedly visit the website to see an item out of stock.

Then I don't honestly think you guys have a leg to stand on. In many of the post of the employees from Wayland, you wax lyrical about always wanting to provide better service and how these are teething problems of an overhauled stock management system etc. but the issue everyone is having, as myself and a couple of others have very clearly stated, is that your ordering system is about as transparent as a black hole. Customers find it incredibly frustrating to learn that they are not going to get the items they have purchased, for, in my personal case 23 days (I received it today), precisely because they are not warned first. I can only see this becoming more of an issue in the future unless you address this underlying issue.

For now perhaps its more cost effective to come to threads like this and attempt to perform damage control but at some point your reputation is going to be so poor that your short sightedness now will cost you many potential new customers in the future. Speaking personally I know I will never use Wayland games again and I will vehemently dissuade anyone who asks me from using them also.

I'm out!

I order from Wayland quite a lot. I have had some problems with them, they sometimes take ages to ship, but their customer service is great.

 Reinokarite wrote:
I had negative experience with WG aswell. I registered on their we cite, I entered my whole adress. They allowed me to make order on some GW stuff, and after I made payment showed message, that they can not in fact sand me this good because I leave in Kazakhstan (and I showed this in my adress beforehand didn't I?). I waited for refund for two weeks.

GW web store remains the cheapiest an safest sores of GW minis for me still.

Yes, unfortenately GW doesn't allow any other web stores to sell their products outside of the EU
They show this on the product page, but on their new site it is kinda hidden.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
I order from Wayland quite a lot. I have had some problems with them, they sometimes take ages to ship, but their customer service is great.

 Reinokarite wrote:
I had negative experience with WG aswell. I registered on their we cite, I entered my whole adress. They allowed me to make order on some GW stuff, and after I made payment showed message, that they can not in fact sand me this good because I leave in Kazakhstan (and I showed this in my adress beforehand didn't I?). I waited for refund for two weeks.

GW web store remains the cheapiest an safest sores of GW minis for me still.

Yes, unfortenately GW doesn't allow any other web stores to sell their products outside of the EU
They show this on the product page, but on their new site it is kinda hidden.

I mean, to be fair, their banners really aren't what I'd call hidden.

Further to the point about being unable to buy GW items from outside of the EU, the new website now specifically ensures you will be unable to buy the products in the first place. So it is much clearer for customers and the unfortunate incident mentioned earlier simply cannot happen again.

We are far from perfect, but we are making steps to improve. I understand that to a particular group that frequents these threads that nothing I say will induce you to shop with us again. That is your perogative.

As I've said before, we are always looking to improve. Many of the issues raised are months if not years old. It is difficult for us to demonstrate the improvements we are making to people with statements like 'never using your site again" but that is how it goes.If you haven't bought something from us in the last month or so then you won't have seen the huge strides made to improve our service.

I just placed an order with Element Games - it told me what items were in stock and when they expected the items that were not to be available for delivery. I know when they expect the dispatch my stuff and when it will roughly arrive. From experience I know if stuff is delayed I know they will contact me.

From my experience with you guys I would have no clue about any of that and it could be weeks or more before anything turns up...

 Mardy-Quief wrote:


Then I don't honestly think you guys have a leg to stand on...

I don't work for Wayland, I rarely even order from them any more (I always recommend Element, Troll Trader or Firestorm). I'm just explaining what's been gone into several times before on threads exactly like this one.

 Stuart-Wayland wrote:
Further to the point about being unable to buy GW items from outside of the EU, the new website now specifically ensures you will be unable to buy the products in the first place. So it is much clearer for customers and the unfortunate incident mentioned earlier simply cannot happen again.

We are far from perfect, but we are making steps to improve. I understand that to a particular group that frequents these threads that nothing I say will induce you to shop with us again. That is your perogative.

As I've said before, we are always looking to improve. Many of the issues raised are months if not years old. It is difficult for us to demonstrate the improvements we are making to people with statements like 'never using your site again" but that is how it goes.If you haven't bought something from us in the last month or so then you won't have seen the huge strides made to improve our service.

I actually hate that it just blocks you. I think there should still be an option to do it with a big red "Are you sure?" perhaps - at work my internet goes through a proxy all over the world, often US. But, in fact, I live in Denmark. It annoyed me greatly I couldn't place an order during lunch break. I have a few more grievances about the new website, but this seems to be the trend in the internet nowadays. To me it's much less functional and usable than the old one.

Anyway, Wayland is still my go-to when I am not in a hurry (and if I am I just walk over to the LGS). They actually just dispatched an order to me that I expected to wait months ago, but it only took a few days, so there's that.

I have a suggestion for Wayland. I order from a webstore in Canada all the time (Meeplemart, check them out!). A few times now I have ordered an item that was not in stock even though their webstore listed it as such. Each time they emailed me within 48 hours apologizing for the mistake and asking me if I wanted a refund for that item so they could ship the rest of the order. Perfect service! That's all anyone wants. Maybe give that a try.

As a side note, I don't even think you have to offer refunds if you have the trust of your customers. Store credit would be just as good for me. I think each time I actually just replaced the item with something of equal value.

As its a Canadian store, don't they just email you within 48 hours to apologise just in case?

 Azreal13 wrote:
As its a Canadian store, don't they just email you within 48 hours to apologise just in case?

Only after I've apologized for bothering them with an order.

 Stuart-Wayland wrote:
Further to the point about being unable to buy GW items from outside of the EU, the new website now specifically ensures you will be unable to buy the products in the first place. So it is much clearer for customers and the unfortunate incident mentioned earlier simply cannot happen again.

We are far from perfect, but we are making steps to improve. I understand that to a particular group that frequents these threads that nothing I say will induce you to shop with us again. That is your perogative.

As I've said before, we are always looking to improve. Many of the issues raised are months if not years old. It is difficult for us to demonstrate the improvements we are making to people with statements like 'never using your site again" but that is how it goes.If you haven't bought something from us in the last month or so then you won't have seen the huge strides made to improve our service.

That last bit made me laugh. If you've not ordered you'd not see the strides we've made which this thread and many others prove you've done nothing as the same issues are still being reported over and over again.

Still blocked on facebook, customer service my ass.

Personally I think this post should be stickied to the top of page do folks can see it and be aware that wg service is rubbish

Well, after 4 years, I've ordered again via their ebay store, so I'll be interested to see how this goes , it's one blister...... bizarrely it was cheaper to buy from them on eBay than it was direct...... Anyhow, I'll report back on how it goes.

 Stuart-Wayland wrote:
Further to the point about being unable to buy GW items from outside of the EU, the new website now specifically ensures you will be unable to buy the products in the first place. So it is much clearer for customers and the unfortunate incident mentioned earlier simply cannot happen again.

We are far from perfect, but we are making steps to improve. I understand that to a particular group that frequents these threads that nothing I say will induce you to shop with us again. That is your perogative.

As I've said before, we are always looking to improve. Many of the issues raised are months if not years old. It is difficult for us to demonstrate the improvements we are making to people with statements like 'never using your site again" but that is how it goes.If you haven't bought something from us in the last month or so then you won't have seen the huge strides made to improve our service.

That is an out and out lie of the highest order, how dare you come here and tell such lies, I'll give everyone here the truth.

YOU WAYLAND GAMES proudly boasted when GW slapped Northern Hemisphere retailers with their embargo, YOU WAYLAND GAMES found a loophole to bypass the loophole.
Not only that but YOU WAYLAND GAMES even set up a ROW section in the GW section and kept promising to add product, but never did, you told lie after lie that the ROW section would get up, never happened.

How dare you to come back now and lie your arse off, you really think folks have no memory retention, well I do and I'll tell folks what happened

My dear old dad once told me if you are going to be a liar, have a good memory, you are borderline dementia.

 Achaylus72 wrote:

 Stuart-Wayland wrote:
Further to the point about being unable to buy GW items from outside of the EU, the new website now specifically ensures you will be unable to buy the products in the first place. So it is much clearer for customers and the unfortunate incident mentioned earlier simply cannot happen again.

We are far from perfect, but we are making steps to improve. I understand that to a particular group that frequents these threads that nothing I say will induce you to shop with us again. That is your perogative.

As I've said before, we are always looking to improve. Many of the issues raised are months if not years old. It is difficult for us to demonstrate the improvements we are making to people with statements like 'never using your site again" but that is how it goes.If you haven't bought something from us in the last month or so then you won't have seen the huge strides made to improve our service.

That is an out and out lie of the highest order, how dare you come here and tell such lies, I'll give everyone here the truth.

YOU WAYLAND GAMES proudly boasted when GW slapped Northern Hemisphere retailers with their embargo, YOU WAYLAND GAMES found a loophole to bypass the loophole.
Not only that but YOU WAYLAND GAMES even set up a ROW section in the GW section and kept promising to add product, but never did, you told lie after lie that the ROW section would get up, never happened.

How dare you to come back now and lie your arse off, you really think folks have no memory retention, well I do and I'll tell folks what happened

My dear old dad once told me if you are going to be a liar, have a good memory, you are borderline dementia.

Apologies Achaylus, what exactly is the lie that seems to have vexed you so? GW Trade terms forbid UK based retailers from shipping outside of the EU.

We believed we had identified a way to circumvent this restriction but subsequent changes to the Trade Terms have made realising that circumvention more and more difficult. We are still hopeful that a way around it can be made through continued discussion with Games Workshop and taking advice with third parties to effect a solution that everyone benefits from.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Motograter wrote:
Still blocked on facebook, customer service my ass.

Just to clarify Motograter, our improving service does not mean that people that who posted offensive, inflammatory or threatening comments will be unblocked from our Facebook page. I do not know exactly what you posted to earn yourself a ban, but based on your comments here I suspect it was a combination of those three types.

Don't spam the forum

I'd like them to admit their issues without trying to justify it. The one time I ordered from them was several years ago but the order took roughly 2 months.

Don't spam the forum

Copying over here:

 Matthew wrote:
Move this if it's in the wrong forum.

About a month ago, I ordered a box of Daemons and a Resin Ork thingy from Waylandgames.co.uk. I. Was. Dis. A. Point. ed.
First of all, the money was sucked out of the bank account, as it usually is when ordering things. But, I received absolutely no confirmation e-mail! That's weird, but maybe they're just a bit slow? They've probably sent it by now!
I ordered on Wednesday the 22nd. After 5 work days, which according to them is the max shipping time, nothing had arrived. Not an e-mail, nothing. 5 days passed, another 10, another 10. I decided to e-mail them about it.
Their response? I don't have the particular e-mail in question, but their response was:

"We shipped your order this Sunday."
That's almost a month after I ordered.

Wayland Games, you get one Cheese out of 5.

I'm slowly starting to freak out that my 'last chance' Wayland order has now been lost in the post (making it 3 orders, 3 issues for me). Royal Mail, second class, apparently sent out last Monday.

Maybe I'm just being negative and it'll turn up tomorrow morning (though it's not like this is a busy period for Royal Mail right now...)

Anyhow... I'll keep folks updated.

Sent out last Monday?

Monday, 4th May?

Bank Holiday Monday?

Hmm, I somehow doubt that. Although that does mean that it isn't as overdue as you first thought.

That's what the shipping notice says. :p

"We are pleased to inform you that your order (#########) has been despatched via Royal Mail Second Class on 2015 May 04 11:38:38".

It'd be just my luck that it's been sitting on the doorstep of an Essex post office for a week.

Well, my understanding is that companies which rely on large quantities of post being sent will have one or more collections per day, as opposed to sending Dave the office junior down to the local PO 5 minutes before closing laden down like a Spanish donkey.

I'd assume that WG worked on BH Monday, and your order was picked and packed then, therefore their system updated the status to dispatched, but it is quite possible it wasn't actually collected til Tuesday.

It is still an unusually long time for even 2nd class post, but it has probably been 24 hours less than you feared.

I'm fully happy to admit I'm probably being rather paranoid.

 Stuart-Wayland wrote:


You only have to look back to see people making reference to the fact that they've never used Wayland, but then give their opinion anyway. The nature of forums means everyone is able to give their opinion. That does not mean that they all carry equal or (for some) any weight compared to the issues raised by real customers with real concerns. There have only been two customers on this thread who have a current issue that I could affect. There were also a couple pof comments by customers that had received improving service by us and a few by customers whoi had agreat experience with us. The rest is just people giving their opinion who are either uninvolved entirely or wish to pass comment on some aspect of the conversation.

Do I believe that we need to be better at communicating with our customers? Yes of course. Do we need to get faster at getting ordered goods out? Yes we are working on improving that too.

Do I need to stop taking the bait when the same faces make the same baseless allegations... probably.

Oooh! Me! Me! Me! Pick me!

I used to order from Wayland on occasion. However, I got burned by inaccurate product descriptions, slow shipping, poor service and being shipped damaged goods - with 101 excuses about how it could not have possibly been a Wayland Staff member that had done so, even accidentally (it must have been: The Post Office/Customs/My Cat/etc) and no effort to fix the issue until after I'd sent it back at my own cost (with an undefined "we'll reimburse you") as the backup. Since these issues, I've stopped buying from you and given all of my UK business to several retailers who are fantastic.

So I'm a real customer, who spends hundreds of pounds a month who formerly had real concerns until you guys took a dump on them. I don't seem to fit your limited criteria above, though. Unless formerly getting gakky service from Wayland and no longer choosing to buy from you simply just makes me a member of "the peanut gallery." Good job, and that.

Wayland rep, just stop really your just digging the hole deeper. May ask your boss to send you to a course on PR, because you don't seem to understand the concept. But, if the other guy that posted really is a higher up at Wayland, there is likely no hope.

 Stuart-Wayland wrote:

 Achaylus72 wrote:

 Stuart-Wayland wrote:
Further to the point about being unable to buy GW items from outside of the EU, the new website now specifically ensures you will be unable to buy the products in the first place. So it is much clearer for customers and the unfortunate incident mentioned earlier simply cannot happen again.

We are far from perfect, but we are making steps to improve. I understand that to a particular group that frequents these threads that nothing I say will induce you to shop with us again. That is your perogative.

As I've said before, we are always looking to improve. Many of the issues raised are months if not years old. It is difficult for us to demonstrate the improvements we are making to people with statements like 'never using your site again" but that is how it goes.If you haven't bought something from us in the last month or so then you won't have seen the huge strides made to improve our service.

That is an out and out lie of the highest order, how dare you come here and tell such lies, I'll give everyone here the truth.

YOU WAYLAND GAMES proudly boasted when GW slapped Northern Hemisphere retailers with their embargo, YOU WAYLAND GAMES found a loophole to bypass the loophole.
Not only that but YOU WAYLAND GAMES even set up a ROW section in the GW section and kept promising to add product, but never did, you told lie after lie that the ROW section would get up, never happened.

How dare you to come back now and lie your arse off, you really think folks have no memory retention, well I do and I'll tell folks what happened

My dear old dad once told me if you are going to be a liar, have a good memory, you are borderline dementia.

Apologies Achaylus, what exactly is the lie that seems to have vexed you so? GW Trade terms forbid UK based retailers from shipping outside of the EU.

We believed we had identified a way to circumvent this restriction but subsequent changes to the Trade Terms have made realising that circumvention more and more difficult. We are still hopeful that a way around it can be made through continued discussion with Games Workshop and taking advice with third parties to effect a solution that everyone benefits from.

After 4 years and you still are trying to circumvent the Embargo and you expect us to believe that you are in discussions with GW the company that effected the Embargo to find away to make folks happy. GW won't allow you to circumvent their Embargo, you know that, so are telling us another porkie again. You can't win on this, if you go through third parties, GW will react by terminating your trade agreement and sue your arse off, that will cost you plenty. You know damn well you can't circumvent GW without consequences.

Then what are you complaining so vehemently in the first place when it is clear that that is the case?

No about the sueing, that just sounds daft.

Stop getting your knickers in a twist, there are alternatives if you feel they are necessary.

 Stuart-Wayland wrote:

 Achaylus72 wrote:

 Stuart-Wayland wrote:
Further to the point about being unable to buy GW items from outside of the EU, the new website now specifically ensures you will be unable to buy the products in the first place. So it is much clearer for customers and the unfortunate incident mentioned earlier simply cannot happen again.

We are far from perfect, but we are making steps to improve. I understand that to a particular group that frequents these threads that nothing I say will induce you to shop with us again. That is your perogative.

As I've said before, we are always looking to improve. Many of the issues raised are months if not years old. It is difficult for us to demonstrate the improvements we are making to people with statements like 'never using your site again" but that is how it goes.If you haven't bought something from us in the last month or so then you won't have seen the huge strides made to improve our service.

That is an out and out lie of the highest order, how dare you come here and tell such lies, I'll give everyone here the truth.

YOU WAYLAND GAMES proudly boasted when GW slapped Northern Hemisphere retailers with their embargo, YOU WAYLAND GAMES found a loophole to bypass the loophole.
Not only that but YOU WAYLAND GAMES even set up a ROW section in the GW section and kept promising to add product, but never did, you told lie after lie that the ROW section would get up, never happened.

How dare you to come back now and lie your arse off, you really think folks have no memory retention, well I do and I'll tell folks what happened

My dear old dad once told me if you are going to be a liar, have a good memory, you are borderline dementia.

Apologies Achaylus, what exactly is the lie that seems to have vexed you so? GW Trade terms forbid UK based retailers from shipping outside of the EU.

We believed we had identified a way to circumvent this restriction but subsequent changes to the Trade Terms have made realising that circumvention more and more difficult. We are still hopeful that a way around it can be made through continued discussion with Games Workshop and taking advice with third parties to effect a solution that everyone benefits from.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Motograter wrote:
Still blocked on facebook, customer service my ass.

Just to clarify Motograter, our improving service does not mean that people that who posted offensive, inflammatory or threatening comments will be unblocked from our Facebook page. I do not know exactly what you posted to earn yourself a ban, but based on your comments here I suspect it was a combination of those three types.

Based on what I have said here huh. Lol personal much? Actually it was a rather funny thing I said. Apparently you lot can`t take a joke even though no I wont say. It was one of your competitions win such and such amount of money to spend in store etc. I jokingly said only order if they actually have it in stock or youll never see it. Like I said funny but not according to the mighty WG. Not that it really matters, I mean how petty can a company be for blocking someone that made a funny. Though in fairness this thread just goes to show how bad WG have become with responses, customers, almost everything really

So, my models arrived yesterday.

That's models ordered in stock on 3rd of May, ready for shipping second class post on 4th of May (Admittedly, a Bank Holiday). It then arrived on the 14th of May. So, 11 days from ordering, for in stock items.


I've made up my own rules/suggestions for ordering from Wayland.

1) Never order anything time sensitive. And by that, I mean, plan for several weeks for orders.
2) Never do a preorder for multiple things released by different companies, or at slightly different times at once.
3) Never combine a pre-order and normal order. - Your normal order might end up holding up your pre-order, due to stock not being allocated. Ditto for any 'available to orders.'
4) Never order anything that has less than 3 items in stock remaining, just to be sure.
5) Don't delete your order confirmations / order list until after the product arrives. You may need proof if, for example, they send you the wrong paint shade.
6) You can have a catch 22 with emails VS phone calls. Emails provide paper trails, which is good. Phone calls are more likely to get stuff done. - Just hope it's the right stuff.
7) Always use a credit card as opposed to a debit card.


Much of that advice is true for any online store, to be fair.

Basically, Wayland Games have never left me out of pocket, which is a bit of a case of 'damning with faint praise' but it puts them above the other Online Stores I've used in the past.

At the end of the (many) day (s later), you will get your products for a competitive price, which is probably the most important thing to a lot of people, I guess.