Alright so I may have acquired some leave days and decided last minute to try and attend an already sold out event. I have been talking about attending one of the ITC events ran by the FLG crew for a while and I finally had my block leave line up with an actual event. In this case it is the Bay Area Open in San Jose, CA. Sadly the event is currently full! I'm coming to the event on the wait list hoping for a no show. However, this is not my first wait list rodeo. Back in 2013 I attended my first Adepticon and managed to make it in to the event and then somehow made the top 16 with my IG in my first ever major GT. Hopefully this weekend I carry the same luck and not only make the event but also have a good showing. Well that is enough of the back story. Here is the list I plan on running:
That the list! I brought the bikes for mobile firepower and OBSEC! The Firebase support cadre became an almost auto include for me thanks to the new space marine formations. They give me ignores cover and preferred enemy vs all them space marines. I dont plan on letting the skyhammer assault force wrecking my day. In the same bound I am hoping to kill off some of dark angel bikes that are now more resilient then necrons. I had to modify my list alot with the nerf to strength D in the ITC format. The wraithknight was originally dropped from the list until i remembered that I dont really use him for his strength D. Sure a D to the face is nice an all but I use him for the survivability and his ability to lock up things I dont feel like fighting for a little bit. He is an expensive bullet magnet that can kill stuff in the process. IMO the list needs something that can take a hit and stay on its feet. Just about everything in the army is mobile but squishy... I needed something to take the heat off as everything else kills off the opposing army. See my battle report on the Bugeater GT for how effective the wraithknight can be at drawing fire.
I really don't like the Firebase Support Cadre. The concept of bringing this to any army is terrifying.
Why are the Imperium of Men Desperate Allies with Tau, but Chaos are Allies of Convenience? Has there been any Chaos world accepting the Greater Good without retaliation from the Chaos Space Marine rulers?
You mentioned the hit to D weapons under ITC, but you also have a Hemlock -- can you tell us a bit more about choosing to take this mysterious psychic flyer?
Homeskillet wrote: I like everything in the list, but I also wonder why the Hemlock is there. If you need AA, I think the Crimson Hunter is nastier.
The hit to dscythe isn't as bad as the hit to str d in itc.
Str d doesn't get insta death from str 10 which is kinda odd in the itc
Dscythe is still only str 4 so no biggy
6 on str d is heavily nerfed from 6+d6 which is ridiculous to d3 wounds which is massive reduction
Dscythe can never get a 6 result
In fact the only real nerf to d scythe is d2 wounds instead of d3 on a 3-6 result.
But it still ignores fnp and reanim protocols which is massive vs the many necrons you will expect to see at future events.
The hemlock is not an anti air unit but a tank and monsterous creature killer with its ability to strip off multi wounds regardless of toughness or av. It's also not bad for more psychic dice. And the small itc nerf doesn't change it to much.
Yeah thats a pretty fair summary -- the psychic powers can actually be really handy as you'll see in my next few batreps soon.
Psychic Shriek and Conceal/Reveal anyone?
Saying that, the big kicker for me is that up here in Canuckistan I can shoot FMCs with the Hemlock blasts, but the ITC FAQ does not allow any blast weapons to be fired at FMCs, same as flyers, even with Skyfire, so that is a big nerf in my books.
Even so, coming on and nuking vehicles and FMCs has been extremely effective at my end, I agree.
6 on str d is heavily nerfed from 6+d6 which is ridiculous to d3 wounds which is massive reduction
On a 6, it is only 2W with no saves of any kind.
Tomb King wrote: The wraithknight was originally dropped from the list until i remembered that I dont really use him for his strength D. Sure a D to the face is nice an all but I use him for the survivability and his ability to lock up things I dont feel like fighting for a little bit.
BTW, just fyi, but only ranged D is nerfed. Assault D remains unchanged.
I actually have a couple of Hemlock wraithfighters but I decided to only run one of them. They are actually pretty awesome.
Mindshock Pod: Enemy models within 12" of a model equipped with a mindshock pod subtract 2 from their Leadership when taking Morale, Pinning and Fear tests. (Codex: Craftworld Eldar (2015))
Psychic Pilot (Mastery Level 2): (Warhammer 40K Rulebook p40)
Psychic Power: Daemonolody (Santic), Runes of Battle, Telepathy
Spirit Stones: A vehicle with this upgrade ignores Crew Shaken results on a roll of 2+ and Crew Stunned results on a roll of 4+. Roll immediately when the result is suffered. (Codex: Craftworld Eldar (2015))
A lot of people don't realize how much utility the hemlocks have in both the psychic and shooting phase. I can even go crazy and try to get vortex S from Sanctic!
Julnlecs wrote: Eldar aren't that good. They haven't won a GT yet.
-Trolls
But IMO they are the easiest to play
Strongly disagee with this comment... they are still a finesse army. I would say the new space marines companies are probably th easiest army to play atm. Eldar can still take a hard turn of shooting and wipe out most of their firepower.
Julnlecs wrote: Eldar aren't that good. They haven't won a GT yet.
-Trolls
But IMO they are the easiest to play
Strongly disagee with this comment... they are still a finesse army. I would say the new space marines companies are probably th easiest army to play atm. Eldar can still take a hard turn of shooting and wipe out most of their firepower.
Strongly disagree with your disagree. Eldar are durable. 12 transports with practically no pens. Infantry that auto run 6 and can shoot gives them better range. T8 mcs. Infantry that can jump back to avoid getting shot or rapid fire.
Forgot bikes with jink that have 36in range guns and assault jumps and board control movement for obj grabbing. Id rather face marines anyday.
Eldar are a crutch army made to allow a tournament goer not have to think hard so they can make it through a gruelling tournament.
The hemlock can get cleansing flame? why the heck are people spamming them? You think a hive tyrant is nasty? This things got str d blasts and access to the two best physic shooting attacks in the game....WTh
Xenomancers wrote: The hemlock can get cleansing flame? why the heck are people spamming them? You think a hive tyrant is nasty? This things got str d blasts and access to the two best physic shooting attacks in the game....WTh
Because it perils on any doubles. It also can't use 2 of the powers in Sanctic, with 2 more (Purge soul and sanctuary) being almost useless and Vortex being redundant. Telepathy at least guarantees you psychic shriek.
Eldar have some very good units to spam but if you are playing someone that has a good idea of the army they know.. kill the bikes and then tie up the Monstrous creature.... Marines... Eldar... Necrons... all have tough lists. Yet eldar have yet to win a big tourney. So new players can run Eldar and may win some games but it takes more than some cheese to win a tourney! Demons won our tourney this weekend. Eldar was second and third with two COMPLETELY different lists.
Xenomancers wrote: The hemlock can get cleansing flame? why the heck are people spamming them? You think a hive tyrant is nasty? This things got str d blasts and access to the two best physic shooting attacks in the game....WTh
Well it has to come in from reserves. Interceptor is a thing. Any turn it jinks it does bascially nothing.
Dozer Blades wrote: I think eldar have a big stigma to get over with the ranged D. A lot of people I know sold their armies.
Sold their armies because of Eldar? Seems a little extreme to me. Space Marines and Adaptus Mech you can choke up 300-400 extra points a game... New marines formation is absolutely devastating... and really.. 5 hive tyrants was not enough to make you quit but... some Eldar with D weapons broke the camels back?????? Eldar had the distortion rule before...
And Demons won BAO ... again.. so Demons are the most over powered army ever.. I quit!
Just telling it like it is . I am not a fan of five flyrants because it is not fluffy but what are you gonna do - a lot of players in my area have stopped attending RTTs because they don't want to play against d spam and flyrant spam... can't really blame them.
Even with that 5 up Invul he is very killable. Especially when you move within that 24" range. Grav guns, plasma talons... they all add up quickly. But 36" back you can kill those pesky vehicles and also deal with other LOW's.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dozer Blades wrote: Just telling it like it is . I am not a fan of five flyrants because it is not fluffy but what are you gonna do - a lot of players in my area have stopped attending RTTs because they don't want to play against d spam and flyrant spam... can't really blame them.
Daemons are broke imo in many ways.
So then, in your opinion Dozer what would fix this, Highlander tourney? Seems there are plenty of broken armies. Our 40k scene has dried up as well and its not going to get better as we saw with Fantasy here recently.
To be honest I believe the only restriction should be Battle Forged - play the game straight out of the rule book. I will take the fight to the D spam and Flyrant spam - however here I am in the minority and it just seems like the game is getting more and more casual now for the majority.
That is how we play here. I believe Lords of War are more than the casual player needs to deal with. I love the high volume of books that have come out and if you make each army have a couple of good builds then a good player can play and not spam. Who really loves to destroy their opponent? Not when you are playing with friends having a good time, that win on the last roll is always more satisfying...
Dozer Blades wrote: To be honest I believe the only restriction should be Battle Forged - play the game straight out of the rule book. I will take the fight to the D spam and Flyrant spam - however here I am in the minority and it just seems like the game is getting more and more casual now for the majority.
My thoughts were pretty much the same until the Eldar book.
I've been practicing against 4-5 WK lists as prep for ATC (the only mainstream tournament where something like that is ever likely to be legal), and I assure you, the game no longer works at that point. If WK-spam was legal at major tournaments, the game would devolve into nothing except WK-spam and tailored Grav counters to WK-spam, because nothing else has a prayer.
I'm about as cutthroat as you can be in regard to tournaments, so I tend to stay away from the "X is bad because it's not fun to play against" argument, but 4/5 WKs are different. It's not "unfun." It's actively discouraging. They counteract virtually any tactics you can throw at them.
For me personally, the breaking point was when I attempted to tarpit one with a summoned unit, and Stomp led to it killing two other units nearby. On my turn. In the face of an attempted tarpit. And when I say "nearby," I mean one of them was 15" away--we're not talking about some idiocy of clustered models right next to an incoming Stomp.
It's so bad that it's pretty much forced every tournaments' hand in regard to pushing out list-building restrictions. Even if a tournament previously wanted to be "unrestricted," it's now essentially a non-option, because nobody would show up to an event like that.
ibushi wrote: I'm still curious to hear how the Hemlock performed at the BAO -- any batreps in the pipeline?
Most definitely... I am currently coming back off vacation and I am still not at home. I will begin creating the videos and uploading them to youtube when I get back. Any request as far as format? The bugeater reports had the opposing list at the beginning of the video. I can list both list and mission at the beginning if desired. Sadly I did not snap a picture of the maelstrom points by turn. Otherwise I could post the score from turn to turn.
Dawn of War Mission: Modified Emperor's Will: 4 Mission Points if achieved, 0 pts if lost or tied.
Secondary Modified Maelstrom:
1. Hold Maelstrom Objective 1
2. Hold Maelstrom Objective 2
3. Have a scoring unit at least partially within the enemy deployment zone.
4. Destroy an Enemy Unit
5. Destroy an Enemy Unit
6. Have at least 3 of your and none of your opponent's scoring units in your deployment zone.
Opponent: David Cutts
His List:
White Scars
Demi Company 1
Khan on Moondrake
Dev Squad w/ 4x missile launchers
Razorback w/ Assault Cannon
Land Speeder w/ Heavy Bolter
Anti Air Defense:
Hunter Squadron x 3
Stalker
Pre-Game Thoughts and Analysis: TBH this is one of the armies that I was hoping to avoid going into this event. However, they are also one of the armies I deliberately planned for when I included the Firebase Support Cadre. I was hoping to draw the battle company in round two where I could hide behind some kill points. Claiming and denying maelstrom objectives against this army is almost impossible. If I roll bad on my maelstrom objectives then it may be a quick game. He has won the roll off and taken first turn. His entire army has scout. Yes, that means I can potentially have a bike squad 5 and about 40 marines in my deployment zone on turn one... I have some good firepower but I can only shoot so many units. The game will come down to how effective I can nullify his first turn... if the S8 shooting brings down the broadsides early then I may be in for a long game.
Deployment: He deploys all but the land speeders(Deep striking) and one of the devastator razorbacks chooses to outflank. I deploy everything except the wraith fighter and the warp spiders (deep striking)!
Game Turn 1:
Spoiler:
He scouts up with his entire army but fails to make it close enough with his bikes to really threaten me. He decides to turbo them back out of range of the broadsides. The multi-melta devastators and the melta tac squads are more aggressive as they move on my line along with a flamer squad. He fires into my broadsides and manages to cause 4 total wounds. Luckily only one was an instant death wound and it was on an already wounded broadside. I roll the leadership and barely pass with an 8. I made some pretty good saves overall and then return fire on my turn as my units jump out to shoot and then assault move back behind BLOS terrain. Between the riptide, and the broadsides I manage to kill off 2 squads of marines and the devastator squad the scouted to the center. My wraithknight fires into some razorbacks killing one of them and then he fails a 5" charge that leaves him exposed on the outside of the ruins.
Game Turn 2:
Spoiler:
He gets a landspeeder in from reserves but it mishaps and goes back into ongoing reserves. He begins to move his hunter squadron out from his ruins as they had remained hidden on the first turn. One of them is immobilized driving through the ruins. He shoots into the wraithknight heavily but only manages to cause one wound. The bikes move up closer but stay out of sms range. He disembarks another squad of marines as they run to my side to take my objective two which is a maelstrom point for me.
On my turn I manage to get both of my reserves to come on. The Wraith fighter shoots up the right flank and kills his lone stalker while also remaining out of range of the hunter squadron. I also turbo the shuriken bikes to his deployment zone along the same flank for another maelstom point. The warp spiders attempt to deepstrike in his deployment zone near his devastators and along his ruins for blos terrain... sadly i scatter off and mishap. My opponent places them in front of his bikes in the middle of the board. Luckily they are mobile and I move back with a run and assault move while also shooting. The wraithknight moves out to score objective two as he kills some of the space marines trying to contest the objective. I shoot an insane amount of firepower into his bikes but he manages to make his saves and about 5 or 6 fnp saves. The maelstrom is currently 4 to 3 favoring me.
Game Turn 3:
Spoiler:
He brings in a land speeder back in his deployment zone to help with objectives. His bikes move up with the warp spiders exposed. Khan seperates from the group to charge in seperately, The main group charges into the warp spiders and khan fails the short charge leaving the chaplain and the bikes to fend for themselves. I make some decent saves only losing one warp spider... thanks to the exarch i am fearless.. I choose to hit and run but he wins the roll off and moves away from the wraithknight. His hunter squadron advances trying to get in range of the Hemlock wraithfighter. The missile devastators fire at the wraithknight but fail to do a wound.
I leave the safety of my ruins and leave only one squad to hold my back objective. The shuriken bikes turbo to the wall next to his objective 1 as I try and keep a maelstrom point from my opponent. The hemlock moves to the center and fires into the hunter squadron killing one of them. The warp spiders move up using placement to ensure the apothecary was taking the first hits when they shoot the bikes... the last wound that was inflicted finally brings down the apothecary. The broadsides and the wraithknight wrap them up killing off the remaining bikes and khan. The riptide moves out and targets the razorback behind the pyramid but the shot scatters wide. I am now up by two on maelstrom.
Game Turn 4:
Spoiler:
He brings in his last razorback and landspeeder but interceptor kills them both as they show up. With a few more things going against my opponent and some bad rolls for his maelstrom we decide to call the game. Que Alan 'Pajama Pants' Bajramovic video bomb.
Post Game Analysis:
Spoiler:
I was a little intimidated with so many vehicles + scout going into this match-up. Had my opponent been more aggressive in the first turn especially with the bikes that weathered all of my shooting in the second turn then maybe this game would of been a little different. Since he stayed back and did fully commit the terrain and some really good units allowed me to focus all my firepower while staying out of harms way for the majority of the game. The terrain in this event is very friendly to eldar jetbikes. The bottom floor of the L shaped buildings completely block line of sight. With 90% of the boards at the event carrying two of these pieces of terrain I am feeling very confident that I can sting most armies without taking much damage in return. David was a good opponent and I would definetely play him again to see how the game would of ended up with the terrain being a little more open.
Battle Company is very susceptible to massed firepower, of which your army has in spades. Also, what he needs are drop pods against your army, not razorbacks.
jy2 wrote:Battle Company is very susceptible to massed firepower, of which your army has in spades. Also, what he needs are drop pods against your army, not razorbacks.
My prediction, Eldar with a massacre.
The razorbacks are effective but he targeted the wraithknight after turn two which was decent but a little underwhelming if you cannot get 's.
sumi808 wrote:Where can I find Tomb Kings battle reports?
I dont have a dedicated thread linking all of my reports.... I will probably make a thread in the near future that links all of my battle reports going back to 2012.
jy2 wrote:Are you talking about current BAO reports?
Sorry, can't help you there. He hasn't posted them yet.
If you're talking about his past reports, you can find them in this link:
Mission:
Vanguard Strike
Primary: Purge the Alien 4 VP
Secondary: Modified Maelstrom 4 VP 1. Hold Objective 1
2. Hold Objective 2
3. Hold Objective 3
4. Have more scoring units at least partially further than 12"
from your deployment table edge than your opponent.
5. Have a scoring unit at least partially within 12" of opponent's
deployment edge.
6. Have 3 of your own and no enemy scoring units at least
partially within 12" of your deployment edge.
Destroyer Cult:
Destroyer Lord (Veil of Darkness)
3 Destroyers
3 Destroyers
3 Destroyers
Allied Detachment:
Orikan the Diviner
5 Immortals
Pre-Game Thoughts: Well this list is obvious with a lychguard bomb and some wraiths to give me a little hell. Sadly I have drawn one of the most resilient armies in the game for a kill points mission. Thoughts think back to round 2 at Adepticon where I faced a Lance knight formation/lynx on a skyshield in kill points :soapbox. This match-up isnt as bad and I do have the advantage in mobility. I just need to hit him hard when he comes in with his wraiths and his lychguard... if I fail to kill off either of them then this could be a really long game. I may have to leave the tau formation to its own doom. I might send the wraithknight into either the wraiths or the lychguard to hold them up if needed. Maybe a stomp or two can finish them off.
With it being kill points and him having the harvester formation my opponent takes first turn. He reserves a good portion of his army for deepstriking and/or walking on. I reserve the warp spiders, shuriken bike squad, and the Hemlock. My opponent deploys orikan along with the wraiths in the middle. That means he will be trying to hit me with both deathstars in the first/second turn. I attempt to seize but fail.
Game Turn 1:
Spoiler:
My opponent starts off his turn by granting RP which is automatic for everyturn that follows. He deepstrikes the lychguard squad along with the destroyer lord via the veil. He places them in front of my lines and about as far away from me as one would expect. He then scatters 11 inches towards my closest unit and barely mishaps as he lands in the ruins with an almost perfect scatter to mishap . Any other direction or at a shorter distance he would of been fine. Luckily my opponent doesnt instantly die but I get to place the squad and I cannot afford to fight them in a kill points mission. I place them in his ruins at the far side of the board. With his lychguard squad pushed to the back he decides to not move the wraiths up as fully as he had wanted with nothing on the board to draw fire. I also think he rolled low on the run. On my turn despite orikan being attached i manage to kill 2 of his wraiths with dakka. I score one of my maelstrom objectives early to go up 1 to 0 in maelstrom.
Game Turn 2:
Spoiler:
He advances his wraiths to try and charge the wraithknight but fails i believe a 7" charge. The game continues to be unforgiving for my opponent. He has some reserves come in but not much damage is done with the wraithknight being the target as he is in the open. On my turn I move up and continue to shoot his wraiths with just about everything in my army. The wraithknight lines up for a 5" charge on the wraiths which i easily fail (I guess jump pack lets me re-roll but i never knew). Regardless I manage to kill off a couple of his scarabs and take the wraiths almost completely out of the game as only one and orikan are still standing. I am currently tied 0 to 0 on KP and 3 to 1 on maelstrom.
Game Turn 3:
Spoiler:
He charges my wraithknight with orikan and his wraiths in an attempt to lock him in combat with some decent rolls. It works for one round as I roll poorly. On my turn I roll better and instant kill both orikan and the wraith with my S10 attacks. The riptide moves out to start getting more aggressive. The big hit this turn was my farseer getting a perils after i already used his re-roll... I then rolled a followed by an 11 on the leadership. He blows up and kills off nearly his entire squad of scat bikes and they flee with snake eyes neeeded to rally . With that I am now only up 2 to 1 on KP with one about to flee off the board and I am up 5 to 2 on maelstrom.
Game Turn 4:
Spoiler:
[spoiler]He brings in all of his destroyers on the left flank and they manage to kill a shuriken bike squad off that is on the middle objective. The destroyer lord also comes out and joins a unit of destroyers to get in the game with a little PE. My warp spider and hemlock both come in and focus on his destroyer squads on the left flank killing one of them. The wraithknight moves to the middle and helps kill off his scarabs and his spyder. I am now up 4 to 3 on kill points and 6 to 2 on maelstrom.
Game Turn 5:
Spoiler:
We play out this turn.. He targets the warp spiders which flicker jump behind the BLOS terrain on the left flank. The wraithknight and the riptide take a few shots but nothing major at this point. I manage to kill off another destroyer squad, the tomb blades, and a warriors squad to take a commanding lead 7 to 3 in kill points. At this point we go ahead and call the game as it is a forgone conclusion.
Game Results and Analysis:
Spoiler:
I have to say that I got incredibly lucky in this game. I honestly wanted to see how the game would of went had he not mishaped on the deepstrike on turn one. Might of been a completely different game. The 2nd turn advantage for maelstrom is a very real thing in the ITC format. It often leads to games where the person going first just gives up trying to claim maelstrom objectives and focuses on the other mission in an attempt to win the tie breaker. I think that is what my opponent did in this particular game. It was close for a while but eventually my units just had more kill power and the ability to hide.
Victory for Eldau 11-0
Please note I have gone second in both of my games and won both of them.
Last tournament I had a very similar matchup on the same scenario -- my prediction is you are able to shoot one of his CC units to death, and assault the other one to ineffectiveness, while cleaning up on the maelstrom with your mobility.
The broadsides will get killed, but the crons will get too spread out trying to get objectives and you can pick them off.
Saying that I'm curious to find out what the terrain is and who goes first...
Looking forward to finding out what actually happens!
Here's my analysis of your Game #2 vs Necrons (assuming I didn't already know the results).
You have 2 easy KP's in the broadsides. Well, they're not exactly easy to kill, but because they are static, it will be hard for them to get away from the wraiths and a teleporting lychstar. You also have 2 easy KP's in your 3-man bike squads, but that will depend on who goes 2nd. If his destroyers come in before your bikes, then they can survive. If his destroyers come in after, then he has a good chance to kill them if he dedicates at least 2 units to shooting at them.
You should be able to take out the 3 destroyer units and the tomb blades and perhaps the immortals as well without too much difficulty due to your mobility. IMO you have a slight advantage in the KP mission. With the Maelstrom objectives, it could go either ways depending on what you guys roll. He has the resiliency to hold the objectives. However, you've got the mobility and the ObSec units to wrestle it from him (if you're willing to sacrifice the unit), so IMO, you've got a slight advantage there as well.
Overall, however, whoever is going 2nd will have the advantage in this game. I think that if he went 2nd, it's going to be a close fight but your Eldau will come out on top. If you went 2nd, it's going to be a Eldau blowout victory.
ibushi wrote:Nice, glad to see you are still kicking!
Last tournament I had a very similar matchup on the same scenario -- my prediction is you are able to shoot one of his CC units to death, and assault the other one to ineffectiveness, while cleaning up on the maelstrom with your mobility.
The broadsides will get killed, but the crons will get too spread out trying to get objectives and you can pick them off.
Saying that I'm curious to find out what the terrain is and who goes first...
Looking forward to finding out what actually happens!
I got incredibly lucky early in this game... I actually ended up killing more of my own models thanks to my psyker delving too deeply into the powers of the warp. I like to think I was prepared for an all or nothing charge into his lychguard had they landed in my vicinity. The middle piece of terrain was actually pretty good for BLOS on the scarabs and the spyder. Even some of the wraiths were hidden early on in the game.
Cieged wrote:Thanks for the posts, I've always enjoyed your reports!
No problem, glad you enjoy them!
jy2 wrote:Here's my analysis of your Game #2 vs Necrons (assuming I didn't already know the results).
You have 2 easy KP's in the broadsides. Well, they're not exactly easy to kill, but because they are static, it will be hard for them to get away from the wraiths and a teleporting lychstar. You also have 2 easy KP's in your 3-man bike squads, but that will depend on who goes 2nd. If his destroyers come in before your bikes, then they can survive. If his destroyers come in after, then he has a good chance to kill them if he dedicates at least 2 units to shooting at them.
You should be able to take out the 3 destroyer units and the tomb blades and perhaps the immortals as well without too much difficulty due to your mobility. IMO you have a slight advantage in the KP mission. With the Maelstrom objectives, it could go either ways depending on what you guys roll. He has the resiliency to hold the objectives. However, you've got the mobility and the ObSec units to wrestle it from him (if you're willing to sacrifice the unit), so IMO, you've got a slight advantage there as well.
Overall, however, whoever is going 2nd will have the advantage in this game. I think that if he went 2nd, it's going to be a close fight but your Eldau will come out on top. If you went 2nd, it's going to be a Eldau blowout victory.
I would of actually preferred to go first in this particular game as I was facing two deathstars that I would of liked to shoot a few times before they got their buffs off. Alas I went second which gave me a significant advantage in the maelstrom missions. I'm going to start to keep track of my W/L record and going first or second. I honestly think the 2nd turn advantage is 100% real in the ITC format.
So instead of shooting one CC unit to death, it mishapped to obscurity, and then you shot everything else to death. Fair enough.
Its true about going 2nd in ITC, it has helped me win a fair number of times, and I have chosen to go second, even against armies with a decent alpha. But I think that is a great way to balance out what used to be pandemic "first turn" syndrome.
Anyway, looking forward to the next one, keep up the good work!
Tomb King wrote: The Firebase support cadre became an almost auto include for me thanks to the new space marine formations. They give me ignores cover and preferred enemy vs all them space marines.
Where are you getting Ignore Cover from on that besides the SMS?
I would of actually preferred to go first in this particular game as I was facing two deathstars that I would of liked to shoot a few times before they got their buffs off. Alas I went second which gave me a significant advantage in the maelstrom missions. I'm going to start to keep track of my W/L record and going first or second. I honestly think the 2nd turn advantage is 100% real in the ITC format.
You would prefer to go first, but what you actually needed to do was to go 2nd.
He had no ability for an alpha-strike, as you could just deploy out of his shooting range (or just take shots with your 2+ units). As you are finding out, it's better to go 2nd for most armies in the ITC format.
Tomb King wrote: The Firebase support cadre became an almost auto include for me thanks to the new space marine formations. They give me ignores cover and preferred enemy vs all them space marines.
Where are you getting Ignore Cover from on that besides the SMS?
While he doesn't have many option (besides Perfect Timing, Psychic Shriek and SMS), I wouldn't under-estimate SMS.
I actually played against Eldar w/FBC using Ravenwing (Not TK's Eldau, but someone else's in a practice game). In my game, SMS from the broadsides killed one of my Darkshroud speeders and did a number on my Ravenwing bikes. 6 broadsides = 24 shots = 18 hits = 9 wounds = 3 dead bikers a turn. To RW, that is actually a significant loss just from SMS and that's not counting the firepower from the rest of the army (HYMP and scatterbikes). (Then in my game, my opponent also got Perfect Timing!).
Man, that was a good fight. I would have done a battle report if not for the fact that my entire army was proxied. LOL.
ibushi wrote:Ah wow yeah that was unlucky for him, too bad.
So instead of shooting one CC unit to death, it mishapped to obscurity, and then you shot everything else to death. Fair enough.
Its true about going 2nd in ITC, it has helped me win a fair number of times, and I have chosen to go second, even against armies with a decent alpha. But I think that is a great way to balance out what used to be pandemic "first turn" syndrome.
Anyway, looking forward to the next one, keep up the good work!
The only issue is when playing objective games. Its a double advantage for the player going second. Your target priority is a lot easier.
DarknessEternal wrote:
Tomb King wrote: The Firebase support cadre became an almost auto include for me thanks to the new space marine formations. They give me ignores cover and preferred enemy vs all them space marines.
Where are you getting Ignore Cover from on that besides the SMS?
Just the SMS but as jy2 stated... That is 24 TL S5 shots that have preferred enemy sm.
I would of actually preferred to go first in this particular game as I was facing two deathstars that I would of liked to shoot a few times before they got their buffs off. Alas I went second which gave me a significant advantage in the maelstrom missions. I'm going to start to keep track of my W/L record and going first or second. I honestly think the 2nd turn advantage is 100% real in the ITC format.
You would prefer to go first, but what you actually needed to do was to go 2nd.
He had no ability for an alpha-strike, as you could just deploy out of his shooting range (or just take shots with your 2+ units). As you are finding out, it's better to go 2nd for most armies in the ITC format.
Tomb King wrote: The Firebase support cadre became an almost auto include for me thanks to the new space marine formations. They give me ignores cover and preferred enemy vs all them space marines.
Where are you getting Ignore Cover from on that besides the SMS?
While he doesn't have many option (besides Perfect Timing, Psychic Shriek and SMS), I wouldn't under-estimate SMS.
I actually played against Eldar w/FBC using Ravenwing (Not TK's Eldau, but someone else's in a practice game). In my game, SMS from the broadsides killed one of my Darkshroud speeders and did a number on my Ravenwing bikes. 6 broadsides = 24 shots = 18 hits = 9 wounds = 3 dead bikers a turn. To RW, that is actually a significant loss just from SMS and that's not counting the firepower from the rest of the army (HYMP and scatterbikes). (Then in my game, my opponent also got Perfect Timing!).
Man, that was a good fight. I would have done a battle report if not for the fact that my entire army was proxied. LOL.
I think you forgot preferred enemy in your numbers. As for going first i was confident i could still take maelstrom as he had 0 opsec. However, it would have resulted in more units being sacrificed. The only itc mission i really like first turn is relic because eldar can take it to your deployment zone in one turn.
Ratius wrote: Nice reps but dont keep us in suspense, did you play JY2?
As much as I would have liked to, but no, we didn't.
In order for me to have faced TK, I would have had to beat Pajamapants on Game #4, which I didn't.
ibushi wrote: Unless I'm mistaken, it would always take 2 turns to get the Relic back to your DZ:
T1 jump into base contact with relic to control at end of movement phase, in assault phase use jetbike/jet pack movement to bounce back 6".
T2 move 6" and jetbike/jet pack 6" again in assault phase -- home free!
Is there a way to do it faster?
Nope.
Wait, actually yes....but you need a few factors going your way.
First of all, you need a jetpack unit on a large oval base (i.e. Riptide).
Then you need Master of Ambush. Either infiltrate the riptide on the Relic or about 6" away (i.e. if your opponent is directly across from the Relic).
Turn 1, move him so that the tip of his base is touching the Relic and the back of his base is the minimum distance to your deployment zone. Then jump him back in the Assault phase. The back of his base should be in your deployment zone (or very close to). Then if you need to, you can drop the Relic onto another unit in your deployment zone. Granted, he won't be holding the Relic yet, but at least it is in your deployment zone.
Ratius wrote:Nice reps but dont keep us in suspense, did you play JY2?
Unfortunately we had the chance but 1 in 4 wasnt enough.
ibushi wrote:Unless I'm mistaken, it would always take 2 turns to get the Relic back to your DZ:
T1 jump into base contact with relic to control at end of movement phase, in assault phase use jetbike/jet pack movement to bounce back 6".
T2 move 6" and jetbike/jet pack 6" again in assault phase -- home free!
Is there a way to do it faster?
So regrettably this is something that I messed up... You cannot move more then 12" in a turn with the relic as you cannot turbo boost and make jump moves in the same turn. This means the first turn you pick up the relic you can only move 6" that turn. Every turn following you can move 6" in the movement phase followed my 6" in the shooting or assault phase but not both. Thankfully it appears the mistake was not too crucial as my opponent didnt even attempt the relic despite seizing on me. Then after that I had fortune on the squad with the relic as they moved back to my side.
jy2 wrote:
Ratius wrote: Nice reps but dont keep us in suspense, did you play JY2?
As much as I would have liked to, but no, we didn't.
In order for me to have faced TK, I would have had to beat Pajamapants on Game #4, which I didn't.
ibushi wrote: Unless I'm mistaken, it would always take 2 turns to get the Relic back to your DZ:
T1 jump into base contact with relic to control at end of movement phase, in assault phase use jetbike/jet pack movement to bounce back 6".
T2 move 6" and jetbike/jet pack 6" again in assault phase -- home free!
Is there a way to do it faster?
Nope.
Wait, actually yes....but you need a few factors going your way.
First of all, you need a jetpack unit on a large oval base (i.e. Riptide).
Then you need Master of Ambush. Either infiltrate the riptide on the Relic or about 6" away (i.e. if your opponent is directly across from the Relic).
Turn 1, move him so that the tip of his base is touching the Relic and the back of his base is the minimum distance to your deployment zone. Then jump him back in the Assault phase. The back of his base should be in your deployment zone (or very close to). Then if you need to, you can drop the Relic onto another unit in your deployment zone. Granted, he won't be holding the Relic yet, but at least it is in your deployment zone.
This method requires you to infiltrate and expose the riptide to a possible first turn charge. I would prefer to use the bikes myself... they are there to grab objectives after all.
Alright gents I bet you cannot guess what I faced in round 3.....
Mission: #3 ITC
Hammer and Anvil
Primary: Relic 4 VP
Secondary: Modified Maelstrom 4 VP 1. Hold Objective 1
2. Hold Objective 2
3. Destroy a unit
4. Destroy a unit
5. Have a scoring unit at least partially within 12" of opponent's
deployment edge.
6. Have 3 of your own and no enemy scoring units at least
partially within 12" of your deployment edge.
Bonus: First Strike, Table Quarters, Slay the Warlord
Destroyer Cult:
Destroyer Lord (Veil of Darkness)
3 Destroyers
3 Destroyers
3 Destroyers
Allied Detachment:
Orikan the Diviner
5 Immortals
Pre-Game Thoughts: Well... that is one model off from an exact mirror build. The only difference between my round 2 oppoent and my round 3 opponent is an overlord + 1 lychguard vs Zahndrekh. My opponent has some options here... he could deepstrike on the relic on turn 1 and then walk it back with the very reselient lychguard bomb. This would force me to push up and direct everything on his lychguard as they move back... to make matters worse he could just jump the relic to other units the further he got back to his own side. I really need to get first turn in this one. Failure to do so may result in me losing the crucial primary objective. He doesnt really have the mobility to threaten me if I am able to grab the relic and bring it to my side.
Game Turn 1:
Spoiler:
He begins the game by seizing the initiative on me. He does this on a 5+ because of the lord of war I am fielding. This hurts as I was really exposed and ready to get shot up. Fortunately he is out of position to grab the relic with his wraiths. He begins his turn by deepstriking the lychguard not on the relic but in my deployment zone behind the runes. They are accompanied by orikan and the destroyer lord... he then proceeds to scatter 11 inches towards the board edge... with his biggest model the first one placed he cannot fit all the models on and they mishap to ongoing reserves. That is back to back games with lychbombs deepstriking 11" and mishaping, in both games. My opponent decides to not push up and pulls his wraiths back instead of moving them onto the relic. He shoots at my 3 bike squad but they pass all the saves. I move up on my turn and grab the relic with the bikes. I move the wraithknight up in support as I move the bikes back with a turbo boost. I then assault move them a further 6".... I Cheated by doing this... I screwed up and accidentally moved 6" to far in this turn. I am not sure it made a huge difference as he didn't even make a move for the relic but it is still cheating and for that I apologize to my opponent.
Game Turn 2:
Spoiler:
He brings in 3 units of destroyers. One mishaps and goes back to ongoing reserves. One is killed with interceptor and the last squad Is weakened but takes some pot shots at the bikes. His lych bomb walks on from the board edge from ongoing reserves. I bring in my warp spiders and they mishap and are placed by my opponent in the back right corner. With me going second in this game I move my bikes over to contest his maelstrom objective for a key 0 points scored by opponent in maelstrom. The second turn advantage in maelstrom is very real. I move the relic back another 12" legally and park them behind my ruins. Maelstrom is tied 2 to 2.
Game Turn 3:
Spoiler:
He brought in his last destroyers and I killed them off. I begin to move the wraithknight up the field. I score both of my maelstrom and keep my opponent from scoring both of his. I am now up 4-2 in maelstrom objectives with the relic in my deployment zone hiding.
Game Turn 4:
Spoiler:
We roll maelstrom and his are get into my deployment zone and keep me out of his deployment zone. I roll score my two objectives and with me looking to pull up by 4 on maelstrom we call the game here.
Post Game Results and Analysis:
Spoiler:
Eldau win the game 10-1
Post Game Thoughts: This game was a bit brutal and frankly over in the first turn... with the lychguard being the main unit in this list not being able to participate it was hard to see it happen. A part of me wanted me to just say they made it just for the sake of seeing the game out. I think had I got to place them I would of placed them in play near me as I couldn't do that in back to back games. I felt bad about placing them on the opposite board edge last game. I would of probably placed them in the center of the board to still get to me but giving me a turn or two to shoot them first. Once again I would like to apologize to my opponent for my mistake on turn one with moving too far. I actually didn't fix this issue until after my next event where I was able to notify my opponent of the mistake and I was prepared to take a loss for my mistake but he also stated he wasn't even playing for the relic. Either way it will not be happening again and is an inexcusable mistake at this level.
This was before the changes to the ITC format, when you couldn't do double-CAD but could self-ally (ITC rules change). After the recent changes, now you can do double-CAD but cannot self-ally....but all of these changes are after the BAO.
Welcome to the era of Houserule 40K. If GW isn't going to regulate their own rules, someone else has got to step up to the plates. Of course not everyone will agree, but then they've got the right to disagree by not attending.
jy2 wrote:Lucky you, playing the same army twice in a row.
Was this Alex, the top ITC Necron player currently?
I believe it may have been. It was only lucky that in both games they both mishaped. I really wish I could of seen what this list can do if they do not mishap. That unit can be pretty resilient.
Dannygee wrote:Good Job so far TK! Glad your having fun.
-Your old Adepticon TT mate
Hey man how have you been? The adepticon team actually won an award this last attempt. We got the scholoars award for properly guessing the fluff questions. Also the reason I started a harlequin army.
DarknessEternal wrote:How are the Necrons having an Allied Detachment of Necrons?
ITC rules allowed for an allied detachment to be the same as the primary detachment... do know that the Decurion is a formation and unique detachment... theoretically they may have been within the rules by having an allied detachment of necrons.
At this point there are only 4 players that are in the running for top honors... this is Alan 'Pajama Pants' Bajramovic, JY2, Myself, and a quad heldrake daemonkin player who's name escapes me...
Also I need that players list as I got the random draw of my worst possible matchup in 4 heldrakes. If anyone has his list I would be much obliged. I lost all of my day two notes.
Your Round #4 opponent is James Carmona. He's a member of Team0Comp as well. I can ask him if he still has his BAO list. He was running Daemonkin, I believe.
jy2 wrote: Your Round #4 opponent is James Carmona. He's a member of Team0Comp as well. I can ask him if he still has his BAO list. He was running Daemonkin, I believe.
I emailed Frankie and he promised a copy... we will see if he delivers.
I never managed to get his list but the big thing in his list were the 4 heldrakes. The maelstrom objectives were 50% kill a unit. The best I can hope for is a solid interceptor taking down his heldrakes or at least minimizing their impact on the game. They can easily kill off all of my jetbikes in one shooting phase. If his hounds reach me then it may be a wrap as they lock my broadsides up with his lord/herald instant killing all of them.
Mission: Vanguard
Maelstrom:
1. Secure Objective 1.
2. Secure Objective 2.
3. Secure Objective 3.
4. Destroy a unit.
5. Destroy a unit.
6. Destroy a unit.
Bonus Points: Line Breaker, Warlord, Big game hunter
Pre-Game Thoughts:
Spoiler:
The night before this match-up the pairings were known. I knew going into the game that I was playing what the FLG crew considered my nightmare match-up. In a way they were correct in that assessment as the bikes could get slaughters by baleflamers as the heldrakes vectored everything else off of the board. My only real survivable unit would be the wraithknight. Adding to this match-up is the fact that the table 2 terrain is different then every other board in that there are 0 actual ruins on the board. We ended up ruling some of them as 4+ cover saves though this really only benefits his army as my army isn't really going to be shot at besides cover ignoring flamers. With the match-ups decided and my biggest threat being the heldrakes I decide to look into what I need to do to mitigate them throughout the match. I calculate their threat range at 36+12+8= 56" of threat range... this means I have the only deployment that actually nullifies their beta strike.
Keys to winning:
I need to go second in this game for maelstrom purposes.
I need to make sure I stay outside of 56" of his board edge.
I need to turbo boost over his heldrakes in the event that he commits all of them at once. A valid strategy that would remove at least an extra turn of shooting from my opponent.
I did not know his list in advance only that he has 4 heldrakes and a hounds block... the flesh hounds will need to die early and they conveniently give me a target while waiting for his heldrakes. If I am tied up in combat with his flesh hounds then I will be unable to intercept all of the reserves he plans on bringing to the table if locked in combat.
Lastly, I need to keep my jetbikes alive as long as possible for the purposes of claiming end of game objectives.
If I can set at least half of the above conditions then victory is practically guaranteed.
Pre-game: I win the roll off for first turn and elect for him to take the first turn(Advantage Maelstrom). I pre-measure 56" and ensure any movements can readily be returned beyond that line at any point with assault moves(Beta Strike Neutralized). My opponent decides to deepstrike his entire army except the Lord/Herald with the Flesh hounds, a 10 man unit of bloodletters, and a unit of cultist. I decide to deploy everything except the wraithfighter and the warp spiders. I do not attempt to seize after he scouts his dogs to the middle. We ruled the middle building is passable but you have to move over the top of the hill which is rather tall.
Game Turn 1:
Spoiler:
My opponent moves up the herald and the flesh hounds into the center and prepares for a turn two charge. He rolls to score his home objective and to kill a unit. Given that I have the second turn I shoot his bloodletters of his objective on my turn to deny him a maelstrom point. Had I went first then he could of moved up again after I had shot him... but such is the advantage of turn 2 in ITC. I rolled to destroy some units and with mass SMS going into his flesh hounds I nearly kill the herald but he lives with one wound remaining. Nothing else happens and neither of us score any maelstrom points. I assault move all bikes back behind the threat line at the end of my turn.
Game Turn 2:
Spoiler:
My opponent gets just about every unit from reserves. This is painful as I can only intercept 3 of them as mass units attempt to over-run my position. He deepstrikes 3 units of bloodletters, one unit of blood crushers, and then moves up the flesh hounds. All 4 helldrakes come onto the board and my opponent originally moves them all 4 up to the midline though I am currently just outside of his max range for all of them. He then rethinks his plan and anticipates me turboing passed them to take out his backfield. He decides to pull two of the heldrakes back to his board edge to counter that possible move. I elect to intercept with HYML's from both broadsides at the closest two heldrakes. The first unit gets a whopping 6 hits from the twin-linked weapons and then with tank hunter I manage to kill off a heldrake. The second unit manages to only get one pen result to go through but I roll a 5.... destroying the baleflamer. I have effectively neutralized his heldrakes. The riptide takes a shot at his blood crushers and kills one of them with his S8 5" blast. He attempts a long charge with his fleshhounds on my riptide but the charge fails.
My turn see's me capture a maelstrom objective at the bottom of the board, kill a unit of bloodletters along with the blood crushers which are charged by the wraithknight. The SMS on the broadsides take a toll on his blood letters as the bikes shoot up his flesh hounds and blood crushers. I attempted to kill both with shooting but failed to get the job done forcing the wraithknight to charge one of the two. I take a crucial 2 to 0 lead on maelstrom.
Game Turn 3:
Spoiler:
My opponent moves up and attempts a difficult multi-charge into my broadsides. 48 TLed shots can really take a toll on some blood letters resulting in them failing the multi charge but still making it into the broadsides. His wounded heldrake moves off of the board as his other two heldrakes try to get to me with the new line being my back board edge. My opponents lord wins the combat in the broadsides fight wiping out both units. The fleshhounds charged the riptide to keep him locked in combat. On my turn I kill off everything on my side to include his warlord. I don't have sufficient firepower to bring down his heldrakes but the damage is relatively done. He had brought in a skull cannon on the previous turn but I managed to kill it with the wraithknight which also finished off his warlord. At this point this game is practically over as I take 2 more maelstrom points and my opponent no longer has the units to score objectives.
Game Turn 4:
Spoiler:
He advances one of his heldrakes up to hit my bikes as the other targets bikes on the far side of the board. Thanks to will of asuryman I am fearless along with the arc issues now present with the heldrake I fail to lose a unit. He also summons a unit of blood crushers to hold the middle of the board. With some psychic buffs I am able to target and kill off his forward most heldrake with dakka into the rear armor and I believe a shot from the wraithknight helped do a hull point. I deepstrike my warp spiders by his back right objective and make sure to hide them close to BLOS terrain just in case I need to flicker jump. The riptide finishes off his dogs on my turn. I score an additional 2 maelstrom points.
Game Turn 5:
Spoiler:
He moves up a unit to take on my warp spiders. His last heldrake goes for my bikes on my back edge as the other without the flamer moves towards my warp spiders. I finish off his blood crushers in the middle and manage to shoot down another heldrake with combined firepower from multiple units. We end up calling the game here as the game is all but over.
Analysis: This game was kind of over before it started. Pending some bad dice I was pretty confident my list could handle the perceived mismatch. The deployment was huge and then when I managed to secure second turn I figured nothing less then bad dice or very poor play could beat me. Not that I am conceded or anything. It is just the list was built around the heldrakes. If I could neutralize or limit their effect on the game then I could kill everything else before they get involved. My opponent would of probably been better off committing 3 heldrakes or even all 4 of the heldrakes and made me turbo over his head for a turn of not shooting. When he only sent two forward I on average kill one of them. That means that by turn 3 at most one effects me. By turn 4 they can all hit me but that means the rest of his army has been taking just about all of my firepower. Either way it was a good game and it was an interesting list to have to counter. It has been a while since I have faced a flyer heavy list that didn't include FMC's. I really wish we could of talked the game more but I could not locate my opponent following the game for a proper after action review/his comments.
At this point I am 4-0 with 2 points off of a perfect score. I will be facing Alan's Daemons in the finals!
Yeah, all i caught was that your dice were hot, then a bunch of broadsides and jetbikes disappeared, but the riptide and wraithknight stomped everything?
andysonic1 wrote:Can't hear anything captain but I'd sure like to know here he messed up so I don't make the same Daemonkin mistakes.
ibushi wrote:Yeah, all i caught was that your dice were hot, then a bunch of broadsides and jetbikes disappeared, but the riptide and wraithknight stomped everything?
Cheers
Ibushi
Sorry about that gents. The report has been fixed. Be sure to read the pre-game thoughts as I believe the pre-game analysis really set the conditions for success in this game. Hope you all enjoy.
Appreciate the pre- and post-analysis, that is probably my favourite part, except when extremely strange things happen in-game.
Didn't hear mention of the Wraithfighter in this game really -- how has it been performing?
Also on the Wraithknight would you switch out its loadout ever, or always stick with 2x D?
Cheers
Ibushi
The wraithfighter came on late in turn 4 and shot at his blood crushers in the middle of the board. I was then vectored all to hell by his heldrakes. As for the wraithknight... I have it set so I can change the loadouts but I do not every see me making him one dimension. He is dual threat with this loudout... even with the nerf. Giving him the sword would broadcast to my opponent what I plan to do with him. I also believe that the strength D sword is only marginally better against most targets that he will fight in combat.
Mojo1jojo wrote:Do Broadsides have a special rule that allow them to shot the the shoting phase after they have done intercept?
Interceptor is by weapon. If I intercept with the YHML then I can shoot with SMS in my following shooting phase.
Maelstrom:
1. Hold Either Objective 1
2. Hold Either Objective 2
3. Destroy an enemy unit.
4. Destroy an enemy unit.
5. Have a scoring unit at least partially within the enemy deployment zone.
6. Have at least 3 of your scoring units and no enemy scoring units at least partially within your
own deployment zone.
Bonus Points: First Blood, Linebreaker, Slay the Warlord.
My opponent: Alan "pajama shorts' Bajravoic
His list:
Fateweaver
Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage
11 pink horrors
11 pink horrors
Daemon Prince of Tzeentch (Grimiore) Daemonic Flight; Warp forged armor; ML 3
Imperial Bastion with comms relay
Be'Lakor
11 Cultist
Heldrake with baleflamer
Pre-Game Thoughts:
Spoiler:
I am not that overtly scared of his list. It is strong but we are about equal on our ability to score objectives. That and rolling fortune really helps me in this game. The board is heavy on BLOS terrain. You could hide several units out of line of sight on just about any part of this board. That can be good for the jetbikes but bad overall. Going into this game we both understand that whomever goes second will win this game. We roll off and I lose the roll and Alan forces me to take the first turn. Looks like I have upset duty. Lets see how I did.
Game Turn 1:
Spoiler:
The Video is slightly different as I always record following my turn. This means you will mostly see the board before Alan gets to act. Turn one I rolled extremely poor on maelstrom. I rolled to destroy a unit twice and Alan deployed everything across the board in his terrain piece with 100% BLOS cover. I could see the thirster but I couldn't kill him with the wraithknight and riptide so it was a pointless shot. I decided to aim at his bastion with the cultist squad inside. Only one shot hit and he made a 4+ cover save from the various ruins on the board. The riptide tried to nova charge but failed the roll and takes a wound. I get 0 points for turn one. Alan rolls to score the objective closes to his board edge next to the bastion. His cultist jump out without fear and secure the objective for one maelstrom point. The other maelstrom point was to get into my deployment zone which he failed to do. He moves up an attempts to kill the riptide with psychic shrieks. One power fails and the other gets through with me passing my leadership on 3 dice. He then runs all 3 of his MC's off of the board.
Game Turn 2:
Spoiler:
I roll to get into his deployment zone and to secure the objective on the far right side. I get my wraithfighter and a unit of jetbikes in from reserves. The wraithfighter joins the riptide in trying to kill off a daemonettes squad that he summoned on the previous turn trying to enter my deployment zone. They kill the squad down to 1 model. I am about to charge and finish off the squad with my riptide but talk myself out of it as I thought I no longer needed to kill it off(This would of given me first blood as I would of made the charge). The 3 man jetbike squad from reserves moves onto the board and gets fortuned. It then moves to jump into his deployment zone for a maelstrom objective. This is where second turn advantage comes into play.. had I gone second I could of made these moves and scored the points without risk... as such I went first so Alan gets to try and counter my moves. He moves belakor on the right flank and kills a single jetbike... I fail a morale and flee away from the objective . He vectors the jetbikes on the top left ruins and kills 2 but they stick. He then charges that squad with pink horrors and kills off the jetbike therefore denying both of my maelstrom points. His bloodthirster moves up and charges my riptide and manages to roll a to wound killing off my riptide instantly granting him first blood. I believe I am down 3 to 0 on maelstrom at this point.
Game Turn 3: I roll to kill a unit and get into my opponents deployment zone. MY warp spiders arrive from reserves and attempt to claim the deployment zone objective. I try to kill belakor with psychic shriek from the wraithfighter but it fails to hit . I fail to kill a unit... Alan moves his heldrake on the board up by the warp spiders. I intercept with both units of riptides and bring it crashing to the ground... scoring my 2nd maelstrom point to make it a game. He scores his maelstrom objectives as one is score the objective on the left flank which his lone daemonette does easily enough. We end the turn 5 to 2 on maelstrom.
Game Turn 4:
Spoiler:
We find out that we will not be able to finish the game and that there will be a dice down for this turn. I had accidentally marked a point on maelstrom for turn 2 when I had both secured on my turn but didn't maintain them.. I have no chance at maelstrom. Either way I score 2 maelstrom points as I kill some units. I also fortune my warlords jetbike squad and move it across the board to secure line breaker and the objective in his deployment zone. I attempt to kill off his units in my deployment zone. I also move my warp spiders on the right flank to completely block any contesting attempts for that objective. If my warlord survives his turn then I win the primary. I try to kill fateweaver and get him all the way down to 1 wound remaining. On his turn he attempts to kill off the bike squad with vectors and psychic shrieks... I weather the storm as he fails a few powers and I deny one. The game is called after we play out the objective. I had scored both of my maelstrom points this turn.
Post Game Results and Analysis:
Spoiler:
Primary: Eldau 3 objectives to 1.
Secondary: Daemons 5vp to 4vp
Bonus Points:
Eldau: Line Breaker
Daemons: First Blood and Line Breaker
Final Score:
Daemons 6
Eldau 5
Analysis: It was a very close game and Alan is a skilled opponent. I really wish we could of played the game to its conclusion. I managed to start making a little bit of a comeback late in this one despite the turn disadvantage. Its likely that alan might have tried to score his maelstrom objectives a little more had the game continued on though. I think I lost this game when I elected to gift wrap him first blood. Had I kept my original plan of killing off the daemonettes than I would of won this game 6 to 5. As such I made the mistake which ended up costing me the game. We will see if I can get a rematch at the Nova Invitational. Although, the only way me and Alan can meet is the finals.
Unit/List Breakdown to follow at a later time. Thank you all for reading and I hope you enjoyed the report.
I have to go with the daemon factory, helldrake kills your objective grabbers and can vector strike your flyer. He can keep pumping out daemons in the backfield safely away from the cadre and depending on his rolls with the Bloodthirster you can be in serious trouble. Belkor giving the big boy invisibility is going to give you hadez, also Alan is a great player but you are aswell so no true advantage there.
That daemon list is built to cheese bigtime. I'm gonna run that against my uber-competitive buddy. With your skill as a player though i think you have a darn good chance. Not to mention his psychic tests could fail one turn and it could all be over.
My only prediction is that this will be a sweet game that i wish i could watch! Good luck TK!
Dman137 wrote:A big win for the eldar/tau, even bigger if you go first
I actually think I need to go second. It is objectives with maelstrom being scored at the bottom of the game turn. I.E. whoever goes second can dictate the conditions the game is fought and already known which points are achievable and which are best left alone at the beginning of their turn. Going second is such an erroneously huge advantage that somehow goes unnoticed.
DJ3 wrote:You accidentally copy/pasted your game 4 overview there.
Thanks I fixed it..
CKO wrote:I have to go with the daemon factory, helldrake kills your objective grabbers and can vector strike your flyer. He can keep pumping out daemons in the backfield safely away from the cadre and depending on his rolls with the Bloodthirster you can be in serious trouble. Belkor giving the big boy invisibility is going to give you hadez, also Alan is a great player but you are aswell so no true advantage there.
I am also worried about his thirster... if it can make it to my wraithknight then that is night night for my wraithknight. This is one of the few occasions where the sword is better then the wraithknights regular attacks.
Eldar are very strong but daemons are still better for maelstrom missions.
AncientSkarbrand wrote:That daemon list is built to cheese bigtime. I'm gonna run that against my uber-competitive buddy. With your skill as a player though i think you have a darn good chance. Not to mention his psychic tests could fail one turn and it could all be over.
My only prediction is that this will be a sweet game that i wish i could watch! Good luck TK!
Thank you, I should be able to type up this report later this evening. The video has already been uploaded and saved as private on youtube to prevent any early birds .
Apologies.. it was a long day and I do not have the energy or mental capacity left to do a write up worthy of the finals... I will try again tomorrow evening.
Basically weather the storm and hope enough of your stuff lives to claim objectives late game, pretty much worked out.
Just that one Daemonette cost you the game -- talking yourself out of it was a 2 point swing, unlucky.
Look forward to unit breakdowns and hearing what would you change if you did it over again.
Also I was under the impression that Psychic Shriek is 3D6 rolled by the casting player, then compared to your Ld, as it is not a Ld test. When you cast Shriek on FMCs with the Hemlock you only hit on 6s too, as Flyers don't get Skyfire in the Psychic Phase which is a bummer.
Anyway, nice job and great play with the Cheese Factory. I hope you brought a bottle of wine for each of your opponents, maybe some crackers too..
ibushi wrote: When you cast Shriek on FMCs with the Hemlock you only hit on 6s too, as Flyers don't get Skyfire in the Psychic Phase which is a bummer.
He's probably playing under the interpretation that Psychic Shriek, while requiring a too hit roll, doesn't actually have to hit. Hits only tell you how many dice to roll on your wound tests.
That being said, this isn't the place to debate that rule, just that he offering explanation of why it may have been done here.
Isn't Psychic Shriek a withcfire? If so you have to hit with that.
Also flyer hit other flyer and FMCs with full BS, also in the psy phase I assume, they can actually also hit FMCs with blasts.
So I agree that this isn't the place to discuss this at length, but after reading the rulebook it states:
FMCs that are Swooping "can choose whether or not to use the Skyfire special rule at the start of *each* phase."
Zooming Flyers "can choose whether or not to use the Skyfire special rule at the start of each *Shooting* Phase."
But if you play by the straight book rules, the Hemlock is allowed to shoot its D-scythes at FMCs as Skyfire blast weapons are allowed against FMCs. I think I've only played at one event where that was allowed though.
Likewise a lot of events probably let you just use Skyfire in the Psychic Phase as a Flyer, even though the BRB doesn't specify it's allowed.
ibushi wrote: So I agree that this isn't the place to discuss this at length, but after reading the rulebook it states:
FMCs that are Swooping "can choose whether or not to use the Skyfire special rule at the start of *each* phase."
Zooming Flyers "can choose whether or not to use the Skyfire special rule at the start of each *Shooting* Phase."
But if you play by the straight book rules, the Hemlock is allowed to shoot its D-scythes at FMCs as Skyfire blast weapons are allowed against FMCs. I think I've only played at one event where that was allowed though.
Likewise a lot of events probably let you just use Skyfire in the Psychic Phase as a Flyer, even though the BRB doesn't specify it's allowed.
The ITC explicitly disallows firing blasts at flyers, even if it is from a skyfire unit (it's in their FAQ). However, I believe that the Caledion, one of the larger GT's in the UK, allowed you to do so (I think).
ibushi wrote: Also I was under the impression that Psychic Shriek is 3D6 rolled by the casting player, then compared to your Ld, as it is not a Ld test.
This is correct--it's frequently misplayed because it actually was written as a Ld test in 6th, and essentially nothing else about the power changed, so people tend to overlook it. The vast majority of opponents will pick up dice and try to roll when I hit them with a Shriek.
While you'd think it's generally irrelevant who rolls the dice, there actually is a point--to Daemon players, at least. The dice being rolled by the owning player opens up the Shriek roll to potential Fateweaver re-rolls (or takes away that opportunity if we're the ones being targeted) so it's actually an important thing to keep in mind.
from Sanctic! 
The maelstrom is currently 4 to 3 favoring me.
's.
. Any other direction or at a shorter distance he would of been fine. Luckily my opponent doesnt instantly die but I get to place the squad and I cannot afford to fight them in a kill points mission. I place them in his ruins at the far side of the board. With his lychguard squad pushed to the back he decides to not move the wraiths up as fully as he had wanted with nothing on the board to draw fire. I also think he rolled low on the run. On my turn despite orikan being attached i manage to kill 2 of his wraiths with dakka. I score one of my maelstrom objectives early to go up 1 to 0 in maelstrom.
followed by an 11 on the leadership. He blows up and kills off nearly his entire squad of scat bikes and they flee with snake eyes neeeded to rally 
