Greetings Brothers! A new Warhammer 40k computer game is on the horizon, Warhammer 40k: Eternal Crusade! Space Marines, Chaos Space Marines, Eldar, and Orks will all vie for control of the planet Arkhona to control it's dark secret in large scale third person shooter multiplayer matches. Tyranids have also been spotted for intense pve style action. Each faction will have multiple classes and sub factions to allow you to play different roles on the battlefield in a consistent world campaign for dominance.
So far, every faction has had a 5th sub-faction vote as anyone who has backed the game as a Founder has had the opportunity to decide what the 5th sub-faction of each will be. Right now, the Space Marine vote consists of Raven Guard, Iron Hands, and Imperial Fists. It is a close contest and all are worthy chapters, but we believe that the Raven Guard would add the most to the game at this point along with their Ultramarine, Blood Angel, Dark Angel, and Space Wolves brothers. Chaos already voted in the Alpha Legion (other factions have stealthy aspects as well) and the Raven Guard would provide a stealthier aspect to the loyalist forces and all the exciting lore possibilities that go with it.
Victory Aut Mortis!!!
(Side note, if anyone decides to become a Founder, you can help each other out by using each others referral codes which grant both individuals bonus rogue trader points (store points) as a referral bonus.)
It really does look like Planetside 2, but with different skins. Those skins just so happen to be 40k themed, so, I'm in. I'll play the free version, and if it's sufficiently fun, I'll pony up for the full version.
Yeah. And Orks of course, if I remember correctly, are just going to be filled with free to play plebs who exist solely to get stomped on by the pay to win master race.
As long as playing as an Ork gets you spill-over points, lots of people will play as them.
Especially since you can buy the same weapon and vehicle upgrades as the other races.
Also Chaos Space Marines, ive been following this game since they started it, I cant wait to play it. Gonna go with Eldar, since there is no Nurgle sub faction.
I also believe each race has 4 (or will have) sub factions.
Melissia wrote: Yeah. And Orks of course, if I remember correctly, are just going to be filled with free to play plebs who exist solely to get stomped on by the pay to win master race.
That's what they've said.
I'm kind of wondering about that now, though. Orks being weaker than Marines was supposed to be balanced by there being far more ork players and battles having no player-limits (since they'd all take place in an open world).
But now that the game has changed to a more match-making type system, with player limits (16v16), that numerical advantage the Orks would have is now gone.
I thought that F2P players play as weak Boyz (who understandably are no match for Astartes or Eldar) whereas paying players get to play Meganobz and the like.
What they first came out saying was that there would be massive battles 1000+ in one battle. F2P player would get orks.. while paying players could choose anything. And this would even out the population somehwat (sure there will probably be twerks in the system). as far as the 16v16 matches go, are you sure thats just not only for testing?
Well, I went ahead and bought in. Hope it will be like Planetside 2, but with more player interaction, PvE and diversity. Planetside 2 is huge fun, but I always find it gets repetitive and stale after a few battles. Hope they can avoid that in this game.
(also, my referral code is: EC-07NDFZSCADDMA if anyone who reads this decides to get the game and wants some extra founder points)
Iron_Captain wrote: Well, I went ahead and bought in. Hope it will be like Planetside 2, but with more player interaction, PvE and diversity. Planetside 2 is huge fun, but I always find it gets repetitive and stale after a few battles.
Others have tried to drag me into Planetside without success. I certainly hope it will be better.
Iron_Captain wrote: Well, I went ahead and bought in. Hope it will be like Planetside 2, but with more player interaction, PvE and diversity. Planetside 2 is huge fun, but I always find it gets repetitive and stale after a few battles.
Hope they can avoid that in this game.
(also, my referral code is:
EC-07NDFZSCADDMA
if anyone who reads this decides to get the game and wants some extra founder points)
If you are looking for PvE this will not be the game for you. Earlier on they announced the ratio, and it was something like 90% pvp to 10% pve.
BlaxicanX wrote: There is no odd man out to anyone who's even slightly impartial.
Yeah...Chaos Space Marines are TOTALLY different and so special when compared to normal Space Marines. So speciaaaaaaaaaal. Because evil and spikes. EVIIIIL.
To all non-CSM fanboys, CSM are evil Space Marines with spikes. Get over it. I could literally paint Ultramarines in eviiiil colors (RED BECAUSE RED GOD AND BLOOD AND MORE SPEED...wait, no, wrong god) and glue some spikes on 'em and they'd be CSM.
Sigvatr wrote: To all non-CSM fanboys, CSM are evil Space Marines with spikes. Get over it. I could literally paint Ultramarines in eviiiil colors (RED BECAUSE RED GOD AND BLOOD AND MORE SPEED...wait, no, wrong god) and glue some spikes on 'em and they'd be CSM.
Eh, I'd prefer it over the alternative.
Calling SoB 'Marines with boobplate' would be excessively flattering for that disaster of a faction.
Ashiraya wrote: Calling SoB 'Marines with boobplate' would be
Showing that you haven't actually seen a Battle Sister model or depiction in art, but I guess noticing different armor styles that are more than just "slap some shiny/spiky gak on top" is too hard or something.
Face it, space marine vs space marine is pretty monotonous to many people, regardless of if one faction has spikes on.
Ashiraya wrote: Calling SoB 'Marines with boobplate' would be
Showing that you haven't actually seen a Battle Sister model or depiction in art, but I guess noticing different armor styles that are more than just "slap some shiny/spiky gak on top" is too hard or something.
Face it, space marine vs space marine is pretty monotonous to many people, regardless of if one faction has spikes on.
No no, I am fully aware they are not Space Marines with boobplate currently.
I am just saying calling them that would still be more flattering than anything else - their current armour looks 2D enough to fit in WoW.
Ashiraya wrote: I am just saying calling them that would still be more flattering than anything else - their current armour looks 2D enough to fit in WoW.
Nothing in this sentence actually made any sense whatsoever. Do you have a point in this little ramble?
Ashiraya wrote: I am just saying calling them that would still be more flattering than anything else - their current armour looks 2D enough to fit in WoW.
Nothing in this sentence actually made any sense whatsoever. Do you have a point in this little ramble?
If you don't want to see it, then you don't have to.
I don't make a habit of arguing with argumental concrete walls, so I am done with this tangent.
Calling SoB 'Marines with boobplate' would be excessively flattering for that disaster of a faction.
I am not very familiar with SoB fluff, so I'll let our local SoB fanatic handle that, but to me, they make a lot of sense. They aren't as capable as Space Marines, but they serve as the connection between the military and the common people. Space Marines are the epitome of human fighting, but they aren't humans anymore and humans cannot identify with them. SoB, however, are much more human and their heoric deeds are more of "human" heroics instead of super hardcore badass heroic that goes over the head of any citizen.
If their models weren't looking that terrible, I'd even root for them as the best non-Necron faction. But women looking like men? Nah.
Chaos Space Marines are just incredibly boring. Space Marines already are super-bland and CSM are /evil/ super bland. CSM basically are D&D Fallen Paladins. Ask your resident D&D player how "interesting" they consider Fallen Paladins to be.
Ashiraya wrote: I am just saying calling them that would still be more flattering than anything else - their current armour looks 2D enough to fit in WoW.
Nothing in this sentence actually made any sense whatsoever. Do you have a point in this little ramble?
If you don't want to see it, then you don't have to.
If there's nothing there to see, then there's no point of trying to find it. Saying their armor "looks 2D" makes no sense because their armor is a three dimensional design. Then you mention that awful game WoW, which... also uses three dimensional designs-- awful designs from a garbage game to be sure, but nonetheless not 2D.
Yeah, but that was awesome OT to me. I want moar! Seriously though, there is no denying that from a purely aestetical point of view, sisters are much more different from loyalist marines than chaos marines will ever be. And that the siste's armor design is way more unique (40k sm looks very much like Starcraft sm, and Mellisia will tell you how much this is a sign of quality ^^)
Regardless, my original statement that incited this argument was simply one of disappointment. Marines vs Marines vs Orks vs Eldar vs NPC Tyranids is a bit disappointing. Of those, only half of them I'd want to play for extended periods of time, and I'd probably mainline Eldar while occasionally swapping over the Orks. Which is sad, as I like both Imperium and Chaos... but I don't like Space Marines.
What annoys me are people who argue I can't like Chaos if I don't like Marines...
You can like Chaos if you don't like Astartes, though they are the dominant form of Chaos-loyal warriors you are likely to encounter.
Which is why we have cultists in C:CSM, not CSM in C.LatD.
Still, LatD are very much there.
As are Daemons.
If I were to predict the next faction, I would say either Dark Eldar or Tau. Dark Eldar elite warriors such as Wyches (yes, they are elite) and Tau Battlesuits and the like would be the easiest to balance with Astartes, Nobz and Aspect Warriors.
I have no fething idea of how to balance IG with SM in a game like this - every player gets a sentinel? No, I see no obvious way, which is why I imagine bE will leave them for later if they do include them at all.
Same for LatD. Though they do have the option of horrific super-mutants to fit in the niche of combat monsters who can match Nobz, Astartes, Aspect Warriors etc. 1v1, it's still a bit slim.
Same for SoB, roughly. 1v1 with a Marine in 40k terms, a SoB is similar but lacking in WS, S, T, I, and (through ATSKNF) LD, and while they have their 6++ it is not really of much use in that situation. Of course, that is just 40k terms. In a shooter video game, it's not as strict and static and courage generally has no meaning, but you still have a warrior who is more weak, frail, slow and less skilled in melee in exchange for the vague abilities granted by faith. So unless bE gives them Paladin-like magic powers (which is not the ideal way to represent their superfaith imo, although not unprecedented) I see no effective way of balancing it. Therefore, I believe they too will be left for later while they figure out some good way to implement them, if they decide to do so at all.
AdMech? Maybe. It's difficult to say. Infiltrators and Ruststalkers sort of fit the bill, though it's just 2 units (or 2 variants of the same unit depending on perspective). You need more flesh than that for a faction.
Ashiraya wrote: You can like Chaos if you don't like Astartes, though they are the dominant form of Chaos-loyal warriors you are likely to encounter.
Ah, no. They aren't. They are extremely rare, and for the most part irrelevant to the day to day battles that involves the forces of Chaos. They make a huge impact when they are present, but they're really not "the dominant form of Chaos-loyal warriors".
Ashiraya wrote: You can like Chaos if you don't like Astartes, though they are the dominant form of Chaos-loyal warriors you are likely to encounter.
Ah, no. They aren't. They are extremely rare, and for the most part irrelevant to the day to day battles that involves the forces of Chaos. They make a huge impact when they are present, but they're really not "the dominant form of Chaos-loyal warriors".
You misunderstand. They are not the most numerous. As Wiktionary tells us, the primary use of the 'dominant' adjective is
'Ruling; governing; prevailing; controlling.'
Which certainly applies to CSM. When Chaos fights battles that really really matter, the CSM are highly likely to be there, and they are vastly more likely to be in command of normal humans than the reverse.
CSMs aren't that, either. They do not govern or control most of the forces of Chaos.
Do you include the daemons? If you don't, I can see your argument, but then I did speak of 'chaos-loyal warriors' (which would be a bit redundant if we include daemons - there isn't really a lot of non-Chaos daemons).
If you don't, then CSM are indeed in control. Huron is master of the Maelstrom and Abaddon is Warmaster of Chaos. And those are just the two most influential of CSM.
I mean, if you count sergeant and above as 'leader', then no, humans and mutants are more numerous there, but as you get to the top you'll find more and more CSM - and as said above, at the very peak there's only CSM.
A few examples don't really disprove the fact that the overwhelming majority of Chaos (discounting daemons for reasons you mentioned) consists of humans (not astartes), mutants, and aliens. And most of them do not answer to astartes-- there's simply not enough of them around (and most of them are concentrated in to warbands regardless) to command most, never mind all, of the forces of Chaos in the galaxy. The forces of Chaos are even more diverse than that of the Imperium, and CSMs are just one tiny faction amongst many within it.
I'm just hoping that it gets so popular that they'll introduce Imperial Guard. Although I imagine that you would actually control a squad of 5 or 10 guys instead of a single guardsman. I don't know how that would work, though.
Melissia wrote: A few examples don't really disprove the fact that the overwhelming majority of Chaos (discounting daemons for reasons you mentioned) consists of humans (not astartes), mutants, and aliens. And most of them do not answer to astartes-- there's simply not enough of them around (and most of them are concentrated in to warbands regardless) to command most, never mind all, of the forces of Chaos in the galaxy. The forces of Chaos are even more diverse than that of the Imperium, and CSMs are just one tiny faction amongst many within it.
I did some research and I couldn't really find much evidence going one way or the other. So we'll give that topic a rest, I think.
That said, I still think LatD would be very difficult to implement as a faction.
So, will this thread revolve around the fact that no one loves the Sisters and how unthreatening CSM are until no one cares anymore? Oh wait that happened years ago.
On topic, I hope they have some acceptable Havocs, or failing that, at least some Boyz suitable for pointlessly throwing at the enemy.
Storm Vermin wrote: So, will this thread revolve around the fact that no one loves the Sisters and how unthreatening CSM are until no one cares anymore? Oh wait that happened years ago.
I believe some people are just very frustrated about certain little plastic men receiving less attention than other little plastic men
On topic, I hope they have some acceptable Havocs, or failing that, at least some Boyz suitable for pointlessly throwing at the enemy.
Storm Vermin wrote: On topic, I hope they have some acceptable Havocs, or failing that, at least some Boyz suitable for pointlessly throwing at the enemy.
Orks are, to my knowledge, the default F2P faction. For all the free-players, they get to be Boyz in Da Waaagh. Which means the Waaagh is going to be fething huge. Or, relatively huge. I hope to Dog they aren't expecting to see WoW numbers on launch, MMOs do not do that anymore, and so keep the number of servers available at launch to a manageable number.
If they launch with 3 servers, that might be too few, but 10 is definitely going to be too many. I'm thinking 5, with 2 or 3 on standby (in the event the game is a break-away success) they can bring online in a relatively short time-frame might be the best option.
SWTOR launched with, like, 20 servers (it felt like) but within 6 months most of them were ghost-towns.
On a related note - is there any news on how sub factions will work re guilds and/or groups - if I eg pick Dark Angels, will my 'squad/friends/guildmates' be obliged to be Dark Angels too, or is the faction thing just cosmetic?
On a related note - is there any news on how sub factions will work re guilds and/or groups - if I eg pick Dark Angels, will my 'squad/friends/guildmates' be obliged to be Dark Angels too, or is the faction thing just cosmetic?
Just cosmetic, you can play with your friends no matter what Chapter you all pick.
Ashiraya wrote: Fortunately it is possible to accomodate both.
Still no TTK fix in sight. Space Marine had okay TTK, a bit too low but it was somewhat passable. This looks much worse.
Slowly drifting from hope to 'meh, I may as well keep playing WoW then.'
But much remains to be seen.
TTK?
I probably know that acronym from somewhere but can't put my finger on it.
Also yes it's possible, but not if your definition of "Space Marine" is "Mary Sue", like many peoples. I'm not accusing anyone here of anything, but I have run in to a lot of people who see "Space Marine" and think "Unstoppable badass who cannot lose because he's a god on the battlefield"-- and that is not true, and never has been true. Doesn't stop people from arguing it constantly.
If so, I wouldn't have had anything to say because it is Astartes vs Astartes, eh? Don't worry, my beliefs here have firm lore roots. I wouldn't use headcanon as arguments in anything like this.
TTK is Time To Kill. High TTK is very appropriate for a game like this (even if we account for the increased weapon lethality) because, whether you're Astartes or Nob, you're fiendishly tough to kill.
It also means less reliance on CoD-esque quickscoping and camping. I don't mind CoD, I've played a lot of it in my days, but it would be a lot better for Guardsmen VS Cultists than Astartes VS Orks VS Eldar.
(If you're concerned it would make the players too powerful, keep in mind that relatively speaking, saying that firepower is nerfed is just as accurate as saying that toughness is buffed).
The stomp attacks were a bit odd, yes, but otherwise Orks in Space Marine were perfect. Boyz are sawed down in short order, Nobz are utterly deadly but survivable as long as there isn't more than one or maybe two at once, and the Warboss eats fire like a tank.
So... have they ACTUALLY shown off any of the non-marine type factions yet? Because I was following this game for a while and they keep going on about how there'll be Orks and Eldar and Tyranids, yet did't show them off.
Also, why no Dark Eldar? I understand that making a game requires more money for the more assets you add, but if they can make Spiky marines just by changing the skin, why not make spiky elves as well?
Dark Eldar might come later.
But, making a game work at all takes time, making it with options adds to that time. There's a cut-off point where you're holding a game back because of nice-to-haves, and the project crashes.
So, keep asking for DE through the forum and any questionnaires they send out. But, they're not going to be there at release. DE are more than just spiky Eldar. Their weapons are different, and they fight differently, too.
For those of us who bought the Warrior pack, look in your account for a Steam key.
Or, get a Warrior Founders pack (use a referral code when registering), and wait to get given early access.
Got early access through a few days ago, the steam key was quite well hidden took me a while to realise it was there.
First impressions are not great, but its early days, it looks really nice and the enviroments are top notch too.
Im looking forward to seeing how it goes, if the team in charge do nearly half of the stuff they have talked about it should be a decent game.
Here is a basic class overview. Nothing Special but gives you a look at the main classes for Space Marine:
Also I've started to uploaded my play sessions with my Chapter via Twitch, feel free to follower me and I can answer stuff while I stream - http://www.twitch.tv/vigiliamortis
Will be doing more of these videos with feedback about other features which people may find helpful
It actually makes me curious to know how they're going to balance orks. Orks being free while Marines are P2P is supposed to be balanced by their being vastly more orks on the field then Marines. With the low TTK, how are Marines supposed to survive getting swarmed by numerically superior teams?
Or did they ditch that idea when they switched from "Planetside 2 in the 40K universe" to "12v12 Gears of War"?
The CSM in Space Marine had poor AI, but their stats were appropriate. Assuming reasonable range, and not targeting a weak spot like the head, it takes ~67 bolt rounds to down one, which means almost nine seconds of continous fire. Of course, if you go for the head, use grenades, melee attacks, shorter range, burst fire, more specialised anti-armour weapons and so on this will change drastically, but bolters were never very dedicated weapons for targeting heavy armor, and so understandably they will mostly ricochet off.
Compare to Eternal Crusade where you go down in like 5 shots, lol. Cringe.
Basically, the ratio of weapon DPS to player health.
Low TTK heavily encourages camping. In my opinion high TTK is better - it gives you a shot at fighting back someone who 360 noscopes you from behind, meltarunners, campers and so on.
Basically, low TTK feels like the realm of Call of Duty, and should stay there.
Ashiraya wrote: Basically, low TTK feels like the realm of Call of Duty, and should stay there.
Callof has shorter TTK than games like Counter Strike? I would have thought the opposite.
But yea, a 40k game should have longer TTK than a “realistic” shooter, I guess. Because space fantasy and stuff. Though Eldar not being able to tank a direct bolt seems fair.
Ashiraya wrote: Eldar should have high TTK too, but due to some kind of evasion mechanic rather than lots of armor and HP.
I thought TKK was strictly the time to kill if the enemy is just standing there doing nothing. If the evasion is based on giving the players actual ways to avoid stuff, like a quick dash, or something, yes it will be nice. But if it is just “Avoid X% of damage”… well, it is actually very similar to having more health/armor.
Ashiraya wrote: Eldar should have high TTK too, but due to some kind of evasion mechanic rather than lots of armor and HP.
I thought TKK was strictly the time to kill if the enemy is just standing there doing nothing. If the evasion is based on giving the players actual ways to avoid stuff, like a quick dash, or something, yes it will be nice. But if it is just “Avoid X% of damage”… well, it is actually very similar to having more health/armor.
Well, maybe like an evasion ability that you activate or whatever. Eldar relying more on evading damage than soaking it, whereas Marines do mostly soaking and a bit of evading, and Nobz only really do soaking... That sounds good.
If it is more skill-dependent but not more powerful even with played with perfect skill, then the game design was clearly wrong here. It just makes Eldar harder to play.
I say skill should be rewarded and someone playing perfectly Eldar should wipe the floor with marines. But noone short of an actual Eldar could play that well.
It would end up being fair in the end. A skilled Eldar player would dodge better, but a skilled Marine player would aim better. It would need some numbers tuning to make the scaling roughly fair, but it would work.
Space Marines have higher armor and hitpoints, but are slower.
Eldar have low hitpoints and armor, but get an active skill that increases their Evasion (% chance to dodge damage) for a short amount of time and are, in general, faster along with having several skills that boost their movement speed.
Ashiraya wrote: Basically, low TTK feels like the realm of Call of Duty, and should stay there.
Callof has shorter TTK than games like Counter Strike? I would have thought the opposite. But yea, a 40k game should have longer TTK than a “realistic” shooter, I guess. Because space fantasy and stuff. Though Eldar not being able to tank a direct bolt seems fair.
TTK is a careful balance between skill and catering to players who frankly suck and will never be good. Many companies these days are avoiding very long TTK's or exceptionally short TTK for this very low sweetspot pioneered for COD. It ensures people don't just instantly die like in Counter Strike so you don't have to worry about anything like tactics, but also ensures it isn't so long that a skilled player will always win over a lower skilled player, which while a skilled player should always win, it doesn't sell very well if a highly skilled elite population (Like in Counter Strike, old Halo, Space Marine, Unreal Tournament, etc) is curbstomping the unskilled noob players. For example, if an unskilled player jumps you in Halo 2 or Unreal, if you're good enough you can recover from his initial advantage and turn the battle completely around into your favor (I did that a lot in old Halo) by whatever tricks you have up your sleeve. But in COD, a poor player can completely destroy skilled players by jumping them or using incredibly cheesy weapons like grenade launchers. This is different when there's basically instant TTK like in CSGO or ARMA, but that's because skill is more about positioning in those games, so if you do get jumped everything's already gone FUBAR.
What I fear Eternal Crusade is going for the COD angle, to cater to poorly skilled players who would wiped the hell out if the playing field was actually level and fair with a high TTK where skill mattered.
I'd say just increase TTK for everybody besides F2P Orks, because long TTK ensures either due to very useful evasion skills or simply a lot of health and armor ensures the skilled players will always be rewarded over a poorly skilled one looking for a cheap kill. There's no joy in a kill that wasn't properly earned, firefights should be extended and take quite a bit of time to finish up.
If Orks have a low TTK compared to everyone else then we run into the problem of unskilled Timmy who got his mum to buy him the ability to be a Space Marine dominating a skilled Ork player because a few shots will kill them.
A poorly skilled SM would get the cheap kill he's looking for.
That's already the issue at hand, really. Ork boys are free and all the other factions are (allegedly) pay2play, with Marines explictly far stronger than Orks on a 1 to 1 basis.
So the pay2win scenario you've outlined is apparently what they were already going for. It's a terrible business strategy, but oh well. With the changes in scope of the game from "bigger than Planetside 2" to "12v12 arena shooter" I'm not sure if that's still what they're trying to do, but that's how the dynamic was intended before.
BlaxicanX wrote: That's already the issue at hand, really. Ork boys are free and all the other factions are (allegedly) pay2play, with Marines explictly far stronger than Orks on a 1 to 1 basis.
So the pay2win scenario you've outlined is apparently what they were already going for. It's a terrible business strategy, but oh well. With the changes in scope of the game from "bigger than Planetside 2" to "12v12 arena shooter" I'm not sure if that's still what they're trying to do, but that's how the dynamic was intended before.
Oh please don't start griping over "muh pay to win". This isn't a free online shooter, playing an Ork Boy is a demo. They're supposed to suck as their entire job is to buff the Ork faction's low numbers and encourage players to actually buy the game proper instead of playing a limited version of it. You might as well whine how your levels are limited if you decide to play the free version of WOW or other MMO's. Of course your free player sucks, because they haven't actually bought the game and are only getting a small taste of the actual, full product.
Pay to Win is when an in game shop sells hilariously overpowered weapons and buffs in an online shop where emptying your wallet gives you an advantage over the rest of the players. Pay to Win is not getting slaughtered by a person who actually bought and rightly owns the full copy of the game when you're just playing a limited demo of the product. Stop crying wolf, you only dilute the true meaning of "Pay to Win", and thus lessen the phrases' weight with each false utterance.
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Matt.Kingsley wrote: If Orks have a low TTK compared to everyone else then we run into the problem of unskilled Timmy who got his mum to buy him the ability to be a Space Marine dominating a skilled Ork player because a few shots will kill them. A poorly skilled SM would get the cheap kill he's looking for.
Free player Orks aren't proper players. They're literal fodder to pad the Ork playerbase numbers and aren't actually a part of any competitive atmosphere of the game. They can't rank up, they can't unlock more gear, they're just a grot sent to the slaughterhouse. The playerbase is the people who buy the game and the competitive culture exists within that group. Free players simply are using a demo to give them a sense if they want to buy that game or not.
Now for an example of what pay to win scummery is, is if the special DLC items in the store (for a game that hasn't reached bloody beta yet) are not "parallel" upgrades that don't provide any advantage and merely a different playstyle, and rather direct upgrades compared to all other weapons that provide 1+ DPS and other such nonsense. That is a true pay to win situation where the DLC store becomes an arm race with people emptying their wallets to get the latest weapon with the highest damage per second.
Wyzilla wrote: They're supposed to suck as their entire job is to buff the Ork faction's low numbers and encourage players to actually buy the game proper instead of playing a limited version of it.
"It's not pay2win, it's just a mechanic designed to encourage players to pay money for in-game advantages over other players!"
... am I being trolled here? Do you genuinely not understand what pay2win means, or is this just the biggest ruse in internet history?
Wyzilla wrote: They're supposed to suck as their entire job is to buff the Ork faction's low numbers and encourage players to actually buy the game proper instead of playing a limited version of it.
"It's not pay2win, it's just a mechanic designed to encourage players to pay money for in-game advantages over other players!"
... am I being trolled here? Do you genuinely not understand what pay2win means, or is this just the biggest ruse in internet history?
It's not pay to win because the free players aren't technically real players. They haven't bought the game. They don't level up or get gear. They're playing a limited demo of the full product to encourage them to buy. They also won't be part of any competitive scene that evolves on Eternal Crusade (assuming it doesn't die on release) as they're limited to one faction and can't advance. Them being slaughtered by paid players doesn't matter, as they aren't actual customers, they're testing the water to see if they want to buy the game (which is the point of limited free to play access, you suck and get less access to everything compared to the people who actually own the game, because the Devs are pushing you to buy).
The problem is that you're looking at it wrong. Eternal Crusade isn't free to play with an option paid service. It's an actual title that is going to be sold for a one-time purchase like Guild Wars 2, only it has an optional limited free release that greatly restrains what you can do (because otherwise there would be no point to pay the developer).
Diablo 3 has a free option, which you don't need to buy the game to use. Just like EC when Orks arrive.
Buying the Diablo 3's Deluxe version of the game is a form of Pay2Win, as you get more kit early on, and other benefits.
So, EC is not Pay to play any more than most other games. You buy the game, and can play all you like.
If it ever happens, Free 2 Wargh is a demo, and a lot of games bring the demo out after the game is released, too.
But, you can pay to get access to other options, and some, like the boss choices, can be considered P2W.
The pay-for weapons are more like skins or cosmetics, as they are generally side-grades, not upgrades.
It's one package with everything.. The devs have stated they consider the Ork F2P to be nothing more than a trial. Using them as a benchmark for 'PaytoWin' is trolling - that's like saying every PC game I ever bought was 'PaytoWin'.
Wyzilla wrote: It's not pay to win because the free players aren't technically real players.
They're playing the game which they aquired legally, so they are "real players". The game-maker doesn't get to arbitrate who's a "real player" and who isn't. I'm sure the makers of those crappy P2W korean RPG's don't consider you to be a "real" player unless you spend real money on the Magical Sword of 10 million Damage, while the "fake players" just grind all the inferior weapons for free. What the game maker thinks is irrelevant though. If you're playing the game then you're a player.
They're playing a limited demo of the full product to encourage them to buy.
No they aren't, because A) Playing as an ork boy is not "demonstrative" of how the game works- it is it's own [inferior] class with its own [inferior] mechanics. And B) If it was a real "demo" then they wouldn't pit you against the paid for superior classes so that you can get your ass whipped repeatedly until you give in and pay money for the stronger classes. If it was a real "demo" then all the demo players would be self-contained in their own server or whatever so that they can learn the mechanics of the game. Or they would give you all the same classes that everyone else has access to but with a time-restriction or some such. That's how "demos" actually work.
eddieazrael wrote: It's one package with everything.. The devs have stated they consider the Ork F2P to be nothing more than a trial.
Then why are they pitting it against paid-for classes?
Your logic is awful. The exact same argument you and Wyzilla are proposing, I could use to defend any P2W game. Are you upset because that sword of +5 damage you did five quests for is completely useless against your opponent, who bought the sword of +20 damage for 10 bucks? Well don't be mad, because you're not a real player anyway. That +5 damage sword is just the "demo" sword while "real players" paid money and got the better sword! See, it's not pay2win!
Im not really liking it so far, apart from the awesome graphics and the fact I can play as a space marine !
I expected more considoring the amount of time they have been working on it.
If they really are going to deliver everything they initially mentioned ( which I doubt ) then its going to be a few years yet.
I just hope that they increase the scale massively, and improve the games too, this alpha or whatever we are playing at the moment is putting more people off than it is attracting, it was made playable far too early in my opinion and it will be detrimental to sales, still at least they remembered to put the cash shop in there eh !!
I expected more considoring the amount of time they have been working on it.
If they really are going to deliver everything they initially mentioned ( which I doubt ) then its going to be a few years yet.
I just hope that they increase the scale massively, and improve the games too, this alpha or whatever we are playing at the moment is putting more people off than it is attracting, it was made playable far too early in my opinion and it will be detrimental to sales,
There is talk on the general forums of open access coming to Steam.
I will update more when it happens, but it looks like the NDA and closed beta is coming to an end.
Skinnereal wrote: There is talk on the general forums of open access coming to Steam.
I will update more when it happens, but it looks like the NDA and closed beta is coming to an end.
Unless something has changed Nids were described as an NPC faction which will be for PVE and also a balancing feature by attacking the ascendant faction if they get too far ahead.
That might be ancient outdated info though. Haven't really been paying attention to this for some time now.
Uhmmm, I checked this on Steam tonight and it was 40 euro for what they openly say is an alpha test build.
Have I missed something? 40 quid for a game that might not make it out of alpha (lets say they find some game crippling bug later on)?
User reviews on Steam also say its most definitely not optimised of yet.
Again am I missing something?
I'm also a bit confused, the premise seemed to be a 4-way faction war with Eldar, SM, CSM, and Orks. Now it just seems to be CSM vs SM like in Space Marine. What happened to the xenos?
i remember the developer stating stuff like it being a huge, non-instanced world similar to Planetside 2, with battles everywhere and F2P players stuck with inferior Orks, suffering under the feet of the P2W master race.
What we've seen so far looks like...Space Marine multiplayer in bad...excuse me, but /how/ fast are people dying? Why don't they just go to battle naked? Weapon feedback looks weird, the Melta's sounds are terrible and overall, it's...well, it still is in Alpha, but as of /now/, this very much seems like a "Yeah...you know...we had those plans before actually trying to realize them...so...have this pew pew!" project.
Grimskul wrote: I'm also a bit confused, the premise seemed to be a 4-way faction war with Eldar, SM, CSM, and Orks. Now it just seems to be CSM vs SM like in Space Marine. What happened to the xenos?
Maybe, for the developer, the concept of having xenos fight alongside Space Marines was too...
Sigvatr wrote: i remember the developer stating stuff like it being a huge, non-instanced world similar to Planetside 2, with battles everywhere and F2P players stuck with inferior Orks, suffering under the feet of the P2W master race.
What we've seen so far looks like...Space Marine multiplayer in bad...excuse me, but /how/ fast are people dying? Why don't they just go to battle naked? Weapon feedback looks weird, the Melta's sounds are terrible and overall, it's...well, it still is in Alpha, but as of /now/, this very much seems like a "Yeah...you know...we had those plans before actually trying to realize them...so...have this pew pew!" project.
Grimskul wrote: I'm also a bit confused, the premise seemed to be a 4-way faction war with Eldar, SM, CSM, and Orks. Now it just seems to be CSM vs SM like in Space Marine. What happened to the xenos?
Maybe, for the developer, the concept of having xenos fight alongside Space Marines was too...
Second, we're pretty far away from the release date, its in alpha for feth sake, do you really think they'll slap a large-ish open world when there's too few people to populate the map and have meaningful data. Not that it would change much, you'd probably see plenty of ''Waa waa game not perfect, dreams crushed'' kinda posts.
Second, we're pretty far away from the release date, its in alpha for feth sake, do you really think they'll slap a large-ish open world when there's too few people to populate the map and have meaningful data. Not that it would change much, you'd probably see plenty of ''Waa waa game not perfect, dreams crushed'' kinda posts.
Its a third person shooter, which is essentially the same thing but with a worse FoV and the addition of line of fire oddities.
It seems an awful lot of work to create the current instanced server architecture only to throw it all away to make an open world game.
Its in alpha certainly but mechanically it is very generic and core mechanics rarely change this late in development.
Grimskul wrote: I'm also a bit confused, the premise seemed to be a 4-way faction war with Eldar, SM, CSM, and Orks. Now it just seems to be CSM vs SM like in Space Marine. What happened to the xenos?
Its still in Alpha, and they put the CSM and Marines in first because the are essentially the same faction. It allows for easier testing and implementation. Eldar are supposed to be on their way at somepoint.
@Silent Puffin? they probably went with the Mechanics they have, because they could (and it feels like they did) rip most of it from Space Marine.
@Silent Puffin? they probably went with the Mechanics they have, because they could (and it feels like they did) rip most of it from Space Marine.
Quite possible but will that make an ultimately good game? Its currently quite mediocre, although obviously far from feature complete, and I can't see the current foundation supporting a game that I will want to play for more than a few hours once its released. I bought the game 2 weeks ago, put 9 hours into it in the first week and haven't touched it since; I wouldn't be surprised if that will be a common reaction..
Well, people are still signing up. I just got my 3rd referral.
So, if anyone has a referral code they want adding to the list, PM it to me and I'll paste it into my sig.
In its current state it feels like it has so many things it does worse than Space Marine, and so few things it does better, that I ask myself why I should not just keep playing SM instead.
So is it still the case where to actually be one of the fun classes you have to pay? Ie, you're going to be a basic Tactical Marine/Dire Avenger/Ork Boy until you pump your money in to be an Assault Marine/Howling Banshee/Meganob?
It'd early access on Steam...all 4 factions are on the founders server now and the game has improved since I first played it a few months ago. Still not up to the quality level of want and it's woefully unbalanced, but it's improving.
Hopped in a few days ago to see where things are at.
This game is still very poorly balanced and shallow. It's not nearly as fun as space marine multiplayer, which is crazy considering how it could easily have been a clone of SM with 4 factions instead of 2
Judge as you will but I think this is going to go down a dark path unless changes happen fast.
Even though its missing quite a bit of content, its a hell of a lot of fun. The question now is whether they can manage to finish the game before they lose their entire player base though.
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