Let's say a Warp rift opens right under your desk and sends you directly to the ending years of the 41st Millenia. You're a Dakkanaut, you know your stuff about the 40k universe, you have a beloved army of minis - probably several - but you're also a Modern human, born and raised on our 20/21st centuries and thus, you have certain beliefs you would not give up. Given this state of things, if you were to end up in 40k and have the actual choice of becoming what you want (utopic in the Imperium but still), what would you prefer?
1 - Enlist on the Emperor's armies as a Guardsmen, a Navy crewman/pilot, a PDF soldier, a SoB/inquisitorial agent or even undergo the harsh transformation to become an Astartes or a Skitarius. You know your life will not be happy but given the fact you know the threats that are lurking in the cosmos, you must put your hedonistic considerations to fight for Mankind. You believe Humanity shall endure and prevail and that's why you would stand for the Imperium. You'll probably die horribly but at least, your will have done your part.
2 - You don't necessary hate your own specie for what it is but you can't stand the idea of fighting for what you see as a byzantine, corrupted and totalitarian state. The Imperium will never have your loyalty because you despise its very nature. You can thus choose to flee imperial worlds and take shelter among the many uncharted stars where pirates, mercenaries and traffickers of all kind and of all species are thriving. You can also join one of the few human pocket empires who don't recognize the authority of the Imperim, like the Severan Dominate as instance, and thus fight for another ideal of Mankind's future. Needless to say, this choice would bring you the eternal hatred of your fellow imperial humans, who shall shoot you on sight if they ever find you. You'll be on the run for the rest of your life and treated as a traitor by Imperial authorities.
3 - You think xenos could be interesting to join since some of them can have exalting beliefs or offer alternatives to a life under Imperial authority. Races like Tau, Demiurg or other minor species could welcome you and make you fight for their own purposes. The Greater Good is worth serving in your opinion and at least, these guys seems to take your personal well-being into account.They have better technology and offer you a shelter. Just like the previous answer, the Imperium will declare you Excommunicate Traitoris and will kill you in the most gruesome ways if its minions ever get you. Your xenos protectors would likewise treat you like-second class citizens/servitors and have you sterilized, mind-controlled or do other not-that-nice things to keep you at their service.
4 - Why even refuse the promises of the only true Gods? Chaos could give you an eternity of glory and power if you choose to serve them. As a renegade, you could be a powerful sorcerer, a traitor officer or a skilled Marine warrior and the only thing you would have to think about would be the next world you will invade. No more submission to the High Lords, no more false religion and no more dictature. You would now be able to bring Mankind under your rule, for its own benefit obviously. [Ascension to Demonhood is not guaranteed by Chaos Gods Ltd ; wanton head bashing by your Master, enslavement or transformation into Chaos Spawn may happen anytime. Chaos Gods Ltd may never be held responsible for the secondary effects of your mutation gifts ; see conditions at your nearest Chaos Cult. Warp energy is bad for your health ; have it responsibly ] - Oh, and if you can't become a Chaos Champion, well, your slave life would be ended by an Exterminatus carried out by the Inquisition. Even if you ascend to any important fonction, you'll become a public enemy anyway !
Looking forward to hear your thoughts, ladies and gentlemen!
Edit : My personal response would be one, hunting xenos and operating under Inquisitorial secrecy is IMO the best thing to do in this universe. Circumstances are harsh but Mankind is strong.
Assuming I'd have some kind of choice in the matter my ideal situation would be to find an Imperial planet far from any war zones and try and get some kind of job there. Ideally a desk job similar to what I do now.
Not one of your four options but none of those options appeal to me.
Well, that is a very rational POV but, if 40k would have been a game of administration, I guess it would not be as popular as it is now . I should have said my poll is only dealing with military tasks, which are the bread and butter of the game !
Knowing what we know, we'd better keep our heads down and mouths shut. If the Inquisition even sniffs of the things we know, such as the missing legions, the Black Library, the inner works of the Inquisition, how the Xenos lives are better then theirs, you'd be on a pyre faster then you can say Heretic.
But if i actually had to make a conscious decision on which faction I'd join, I'd undoubtedly worship the Chaos Gods. Actual Gods, which we know are real, and know enough about to set ourselfs a cushy seat as Magister of a Cult. Setting up a little Slaaneshi cult on a back water planet sounds like the perfect get away.
Depends on what I know. If I know what I know now, easily go for the IoM. Any other faction detracts from the effort of Mankind's survival.
Tbh, all the other options, bar maybe Tau, are straight to Chaos. Helping the Tau hinders the IoM, which helps Chaos. This is wh40k, not the real world.
Hell yes I would. Especially if I was a rogue trader. It's like being a system level admiral, but you're filthy rich, strapped with arcane technology, and probably have an extensive harem of Uber space hotties. Hell yeah sign me up. I'll risk the occasional corsair or chaos incursion for some of that action.
Tbh, all the other options, bar maybe Tau, are straight to Chaos. Helping the Tau hinders the IoM, which helps Chaos. This is wh40k, not the real world.
I'd agree. In my poll I tried to take into account sub-human factions, which are not often discussed but do exist, like the Severan Dominate or the former post-Macharius states. More human nations must exist, I just tried to be as accurate as I can so everyone would find its pleasure
I doubt Eldar would let you live by their side or fight under their aegis! But if you have a known example of human-eldar communities or military forces, please lemme know.
Human pocket empire which is democratic and much more humane then the fascist genocidal oppressive IoM. You guys don't get it. The IoM is Nazi Germany on steroids. You have no rights no life nothing. You're a slave.
If the IoM showed up in orbit over modern day earth declared martial law annexed the planet and declared that they will force construction of planet covering factories and force 99% of us to work in sordid conditions to fuel the imperial war machine and eventually turn the planet uninhabitable would you be happy or will we fight and refuse to recognize the IoM and tell them to leave. At which point the IoM will invade to "liberate" us from ourselves and enslave everyone.
If you say you're enlisting as a guardsmen blindly with 10-year old slogans like "for humanity" or I owe my alliance to my race you're exactly the same as enlisting in the SS in Nazi Germany to commit genocide against other races and your own people. Germans weren't free under the Nazi's and poles, Jews, sub-hUmans weren't free either. If you really think about it Xenos are a proxy for non-whites or anyone different from you. Certain Xenos like trading Demurig, cultured civilized Eldar, or Kroot are more similar to humanoids than you think they don't derseve to be gassed or dumped into death BBQ pits because they are different. IoM wants to kill all non-humans regardless of if they are a threat or not and enslave it's own population to fuel its imperial war complex in a endless cycle of self-perpetual war. IoM needs constant violence, genocide, and war to justify its own miserable horrific existence - do you really want to feed into that? Even the Emperor (who admittedly was still genocidal against sub-humans) would be horrified at the state of the imperium in its current state.
The lie is humanity needs the IoM with all its misery and pain to survive but humanity actually doesn't need a fascist homocidal government overly bent on killing everyone and anything opposed to it - we figured that out on earth a long time ago. It's only when you realize he IoM is NOT the best of all possible world's can the truth come out. Truth is man-made and created. There can be a highly militarized but not genocidal oppressive tyrannical government in place that can allow more freedom to its populace and sign treaties with non-inherent violent Xenos and reduce the level of pure misery in the galaxy that chaos feeds off of.
I choose option one. I'll undergo the recruitment, training and surgery. I wouldn't mind becoming an absolute brute protected by power armour, with legendary combat prowess. I could make a glorious contribution to mankind whilst walking around snapping fire warriors in half like breadsticks. I could march up to any cultist, elder guardian or ethereal I see and spit acid in their face before crushing their skull with a mere slap to the face.
I think I'd like to be an independent businessman supplying bolter rounds and lasgun clips. I'd like to live somewhere in the vast interior of the imperium on a luxury planet full of pleasure bots.
2BlackJack1 wrote: Ok, being an astartes wins this for me. I'd sure hope it'd be for one of the first founding chapters, but I'd take any of 'em.
... you do realize the casualty rate for that, right? Chances're pretty good you die in the process.
I was more going with the wording of the OP, which made it sound like it's a for sure thing. Also, considering my other options are sacrifice my body to be more robot than human, die a terrible death someday with a flashlight gun, live on the run, accept chaos, etc. I like my odds with the astartes. At least if I do make it, I'll be kicking xenos scum and traitors around 24/7. What more could I ask for?
2BlackJack1 wrote: Ok, being an astartes wins this for me. I'd sure hope it'd be for one of the first founding chapters, but I'd take any of 'em.
... you do realize the casualty rate for that, right? Chances're pretty good you die in the process.
I was more going with the wording of the OP, which made it sound like it's a for sure thing. Also, considering my other options are sacrifice my body to be more robot than human, die a terrible death someday with a flashlight gun, live on the run, accept chaos, etc. I like my odds with the astartes. At least if I do make it, I'll be kicking xenos scum and traitors around 24/7. What more could I ask for?
Well, odds are you'll die a virgin in that scenario. So there is that.
2BlackJack1 wrote: Ok, being an astartes wins this for me. I'd sure hope it'd be for one of the first founding chapters, but I'd take any of 'em.
... you do realize the casualty rate for that, right? Chances're pretty good you die in the process.
I was more going with the wording of the OP, which made it sound like it's a for sure thing. Also, considering my other options are sacrifice my body to be more robot than human, die a terrible death someday with a flashlight gun, live on the run, accept chaos, etc. I like my odds with the astartes. At least if I do make it, I'll be kicking xenos scum and traitors around 24/7. What more could I ask for?
Well, odds are you'll die a virgin in that scenario. So there is that.
I think I'll sign on with Silverthorne thanks. Cadge the secrets of the machine from whatever poor techpriest's running her enginarium and take over that job.
Any faitfull servent of humanity would see that this "poll" offers no choices; You either side with the Imperium and defend mankind or you do as a coward/xenos-slave/heretic.
2BlackJack1 wrote: Ok, being an astartes wins this for me. I'd sure hope it'd be for one of the first founding chapters, but I'd take any of 'em.
... you do realize the casualty rate for that, right? Chances're pretty good you die in the process.
Well yes, astartes don't just retire. Not that it'd serve any purpose, considering that war is all they know and they are the best in the galaxy at it. If you make it to a full battle-brother you'll most likely be approaching retirement age for us mere mortals. Being essentially immortal you wouldn't have to worry about such little details like aging that much.
The casualty rate for life itself is 100%. It's certain you'll die in the process.
2BlackJack1 wrote: Ok, being an astartes wins this for me. I'd sure hope it'd be for one of the first founding chapters, but I'd take any of 'em.
... you do realize the casualty rate for that, right? Chances're pretty good you die in the process.
Well yes, astartes don't just retire. Not that it'd serve any purpose, considering that war is all they know and they are the best in the galaxy at it. If you make it to a full battle-brother you'll most likely be approaching retirement age for us mere mortals. Being essentially immortal you wouldn't have to worry about such little details like aging that much.
The casualty rate for life itself is 100%. It's certain you'll die in the process.
I think he was referring to risk of dying during training/recruitment.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also astartes can retire, many have done and taken up roles in the training of recruits.
I doubt Eldar would let you live by their side or fight under their aegis! But if you have a known example of human-eldar communities or military forces, please lemme know.
Exodite Worlders would probably let you fight by their side (so long as you prove yourself to be trustworthy). If you prove especially wise, righteous, and mighty, the Craftworlders might let you fight alongside them, but you'd need to prove yourself to be honorable and trustworthy, not to mention the fact that you'd need to have some kind of military resource that they would find desirable for their war efforts (for instance, an Ark Mechanicus, or other DAoT ship[s]).. Dark Eldar would rape you repeatedly, torture you for a few decades, then kill you in the most slow way possible, so, if you're into that kinda thing...
Personally, I'd want to be a rogue SM Chapter Master. I'd find an uncharted solar system with a large asteroid belt (similar to the Oort Cloud), in which to set up mineral mines and fortresses. I'd design my own Void Ships (like in Star Traders RPG), I'd build up as large a hoard of tech as I possibly could, trading some of it off, here or there, just enough to amass a sizable fleet. From there, I'd build up an army of fanatics, who are insanely loyal to the God-Emperor. I'd ensure that the Xenos-hate was not taught to my fanatics. From there, I would expand my little Empire into other uninhabited star systems, preferably of the uncharted variety. As my little empire grew larger, I would form alliances with lesser alien races, like the Donarathi, and would search for Kroot worlds to subsume into my Empire. Once my navy and ground forces became large enough, I would moniter the Warp for reports of Chaos attacks, and send for my forces to assist in the defense of the Imperium. My Astartes would take up the name of the Blood Drinkers, in order to fight for the Emperor without drawing the Inquisition's attention.
If part of my little empire was discovered by the Imperium at large, I would ensure that it payed its tithes, and that the Imperium believed that that was the only system I controlled. I would continue to expand until I died, and my successor would continue to expand. All the while, my Chapter would only take over solar system's that were either undiscovered, or had no Imperial presence at all. Our alien allies would be innumerable, as we discovered Kroot worlds along with other alien worlds, we would turn them into vassal states through diplomacy or force. Eventually, hundreds of worlds would be under my command, and I would be able to use my Empire to combat Chaos at every turn. My trillions of citizens would all worship the Emperor, so we would (probably) have his support in our doings. We would be the ulimate anti-chaos force.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Spoiler:
DorianGray wrote: Human pocket empire which is democratic and much more humane then the fascist genocidal oppressive IoM. You guys don't get it. The IoM is Nazi Germany on steroids. You have no rights no life nothing. You're a slave.
If the IoM showed up in orbit over modern day earth declared martial law annexed the planet and declared that they will force construction of planet covering factories and force 99% of us to work in sordid conditions to fuel the imperial war machine and eventually turn the planet uninhabitable would you be happy or will we fight and refuse to recognize the IoM and tell them to leave. At which point the IoM will invade to "liberate" us from ourselves and enslave everyone.
If you say you're enlisting as a guardsmen blindly with 10-year old slogans like "for humanity" or I owe my alliance to my race you're exactly the same as enlisting in the SS in Nazi Germany to commit genocide against other races and your own people. Germans weren't free under the Nazi's and poles, Jews, sub-hUmans weren't free either. If you really think about it Xenos are a proxy for non-whites or anyone different from you. Certain Xenos like trading Demurig, cultured civilized Eldar, or Kroot are more similar to humanoids than you think they don't derseve to be gassed or dumped into death BBQ pits because they are different. IoM wants to kill all non-humans regardless of if they are a threat or not and enslave it's own population to fuel its imperial war complex in a endless cycle of self-perpetual war. IoM needs constant violence, genocide, and war to justify its own miserable horrific existence - do you really want to feed into that? Even the Emperor (who admittedly was still genocidal against sub-humans) would be horrified at the state of the imperium in its current state.
The lie is humanity needs the IoM with all its misery and pain to survive but humanity actually doesn't need a fascist homocidal government overly bent on killing everyone and anything opposed to it - we figured that out on earth a long time ago. It's only when you realize he IoM is NOT the best of all possible world's can the truth come out. Truth is man-made and created. There can be a highly militarized but not genocidal oppressive tyrannical government in place that can allow more freedom to its populace and sign treaties with non-inherent violent Xenos and reduce the level of pure misery in the galaxy that chaos feeds off of.
Considering the fact that, without the Imperium, Chaos would be (literally) anally raping the galaxy, you are dead wrong. The thing that's so grimdark about 40k is that the kind of government you describe just doesn't work - that was proven during the Fall of Old Night. The Imperium might be as great as it was during its glory days, but it's still the only reason that Chaos isn't flooding out of the Eye of Terror, Maelstrom, etc. in endless waves of Daemons and culists that would end up destroying all life in the galaxy, and kill the gods of Chaos themselves. Without the Imperium, everyone dies. Of course, that might not be a bad thing, but still.
I doubt Eldar would let you live by their side or fight under their aegis! But if you have a known example of human-eldar communities or military forces, please lemme know.
Exodite Worlders would probably let you fight by their side (so long as you prove yourself to be trustworthy). If you prove especially wise, righteous, and mighty, the Craftworlders might let you fight alongside them, but you'd need to prove yourself to be honorable and trustworthy, not to mention the fact that you'd need to have some kind of military resource that they would find desirable for their war efforts (for instance, an Ark Mechanicus, or other DAoT ship[s]).. Dark Eldar would rape you repeatedly, torture you for a few decades, then kill you in the most slow way possible, so, if you're into that kinda thing...
Personally, I'd want to be a rogue SM Chapter Master. I'd find an uncharted solar system with a large asteroid belt (similar to the Oort Cloud), in which to set up mineral mines and fortresses. I'd design my own Void Ships (like in Star Traders RPG), I'd build up as large a hoard of tech as I possibly could, trading some of it off, here or there, just enough to amass a sizable fleet. From there, I'd build up an army of fanatics, who are insanely loyal to the God-Emperor. I'd ensure that the Xenos-hate was not taught to my fanatics. From there, I would expand my little Empire into other uninhabited star systems, preferably of the uncharted variety. As my little empire grew larger, I would form alliances with lesser alien races, like the Donarathi, and would search for Kroot worlds to subsume into my Empire. Once my navy and ground forces became large enough, I would moniter the Warp for reports of Chaos attacks, and send for my forces to assist in the defense of the Imperium. My Astartes would take up the name of the Blood Drinkers, in order to fight for the Emperor without drawing the Inquisition's attention.
If part of my little empire was discovered by the Imperium at large, I would ensure that it payed its tithes, and that the Imperium believed that that was the only system I controlled. I would continue to expand until I died, and my successor would continue to expand. All the while, my Chapter would only take over solar system's that were either undiscovered, or had no Imperial presence at all. Our alien allies would be innumerable, as we discovered Kroot worlds along with other alien worlds, we would turn them into vassal states through diplomacy or force. Eventually, hundreds of worlds would be under my command, and I would be able to use my Empire to combat Chaos at every turn. My trillions of citizens would all worship the Emperor, so we would (probably) have his support in our doings. We would be the ulimate anti-chaos force.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Spoiler:
DorianGray wrote: Human pocket empire which is democratic and much more humane then the fascist genocidal oppressive IoM. You guys don't get it. The IoM is Nazi Germany on steroids. You have no rights no life nothing. You're a slave.
If the IoM showed up in orbit over modern day earth declared martial law annexed the planet and declared that they will force construction of planet covering factories and force 99% of us to work in sordid conditions to fuel the imperial war machine and eventually turn the planet uninhabitable would you be happy or will we fight and refuse to recognize the IoM and tell them to leave. At which point the IoM will invade to "liberate" us from ourselves and enslave everyone.
If you say you're enlisting as a guardsmen blindly with 10-year old slogans like "for humanity" or I owe my alliance to my race you're exactly the same as enlisting in the SS in Nazi Germany to commit genocide against other races and your own people. Germans weren't free under the Nazi's and poles, Jews, sub-hUmans weren't free either. If you really think about it Xenos are a proxy for non-whites or anyone different from you. Certain Xenos like trading Demurig, cultured civilized Eldar, or Kroot are more similar to humanoids than you think they don't derseve to be gassed or dumped into death BBQ pits because they are different. IoM wants to kill all non-humans regardless of if they are a threat or not and enslave it's own population to fuel its imperial war complex in a endless cycle of self-perpetual war. IoM needs constant violence, genocide, and war to justify its own miserable horrific existence - do you really want to feed into that? Even the Emperor (who admittedly was still genocidal against sub-humans) would be horrified at the state of the imperium in its current state.
The lie is humanity needs the IoM with all its misery and pain to survive but humanity actually doesn't need a fascist homocidal government overly bent on killing everyone and anything opposed to it - we figured that out on earth a long time ago. It's only when you realize he IoM is NOT the best of all possible world's can the truth come out. Truth is man-made and created. There can be a highly militarized but not genocidal oppressive tyrannical government in place that can allow more freedom to its populace and sign treaties with non-inherent violent Xenos and reduce the level of pure misery in the galaxy that chaos feeds off of.
Considering the fact that, without the Imperium, Chaos would be (literally) anally raping the galaxy, you are dead wrong. The thing that's so grimdark about 40k is that the kind of government you describe just doesn't work - that was proven during the Fall of Old Night. The Imperium might be as great as it was during its glory days, but it's still the only reason that Chaos isn't flooding out of the Eye of Terror, Maelstrom, etc. in endless waves of Daemons and culists that would end up destroying all life in the galaxy, and kill the gods of Chaos themselves. Without the Imperium, everyone dies. Of course, that might not be a bad thing, but still.
3 - You think xenos could be interesting to join since some of them can have exalting beliefs or offer alternatives to a life under Imperial authority. Races like Tau, Demiurg or other minor species could welcome you and make you fight for their own purposes. The Greater Good is worth serving in your opinion and at least, these guys seems to take your personal well-being into account.They have better technology and offer you a shelter. Just like the previous answer, the Imperium will declare you Excommunicate Traitoris and will kill you in the most gruesome ways if its minions ever get you. Your xenos protectors would likewise treat you like-second class citizens/servitors and have you sterilized, mind-controlled or do other not-that-nice things to keep you at their service.
The Tau are pretty much the only ones that let you join, but they just chemically sterilize you while using you as coerced labor until your population dies out and they can replace you.
I'd serve the Imperium because no better option exists. Maybe go rogue. 40k is a dark, horrible setting to live in, with even the loyal Imperium citizens offered nothing but an eternity of daemonic torture. Might as well enjoy myself while I can.
Of all the outrigth nut jobs of the 40k galaxy Id rather roll with my own race, I do not wish to grow extra limbs or rubbing shoulder with midget sized space smurfs
I'd probably try and get work with a Rogue Trader by using my knowledge of what drives other folk, which Xenos and areas are exploitable / trustworthy, and understanding of various things that would seem important in a universe of lost tech. It'd give me enough mileage to use some of my 40K understanding and a shield against Inquisition as RT are a major headache to investigate.
Alternatively I'd quite like to be a vox officer, but I imagine the amount of screaming gets to you quite quickly. I'd consider Commissariat, but I'd be frightened of seeing myself turned into something sociopathic.
Realistically I'd probably accidentally reveal I knew how to change a fuse and get shot for tech-heresy.
I wouldn't fight (mainly because I carry about as many diseases as a Nurgle cultist), but would be happy to take up a desk job for the Imperium, join the Adeptus Mechanicus, or become a Naval Officer. The God Emperor is the only hope in the universe (nothing good comes from serving Chaos), the only one who truly rewards service, and isn't flying rodent gak evil.
Plus he seems to have some sort of afterlife of some manner, with such things popping up in various places across the Black Library and RPG's.
Harley Quinn wrote: No Eldar option? I'm disappointed.
If not, I suppose like ALEXisAWESOME said above, I'd go to Chaos and worship Slaanesh. Pleasure everywhere.
You are mon'keigh from a backwards, barbaric world. What could you possibly offer the Eldar?
2BlackJack1 wrote: Ok, being an astartes wins this for me. I'd sure hope it'd be for one of the first founding chapters, but I'd take any of 'em.
... you do realize the casualty rate for that, right? Chances're pretty good you die in the process.
Well yes, astartes don't just retire. Not that it'd serve any purpose, considering that war is all they know and they are the best in the galaxy at it. If you make it to a full battle-brother you'll most likely be approaching retirement age for us mere mortals. Being essentially immortal you wouldn't have to worry about such little details like aging that much.
The casualty rate for life itself is 100%. It's certain you'll die in the process.
Yeah... but some deaths are worse than others. For example, if you die in the SM training process, that's that. Meanwhile, I'll be over in the ranks of the gue'vesa with a pulse rifle, armor worth calling armor, and I'll still be able to make sweet love down by the fire. It's a better deal than any in the Imperium. That's why the Tau have such an easy time converting Imperial worlds to their cause.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wyzilla wrote: I wouldn't fight (mainly because I carry about as many diseases as a Nurgle cultist), but would be happy to take up a desk job for the Imperium, join the Adeptus Mechanicus, or become a Naval Officer. The God Emperor is the only hope in the universe (nothing good comes from serving Chaos), the only one who truly rewards service, and isn't flying rodent gak evil.
Plus he seems to have some sort of afterlife of some manner, with such things popping up in various places across the Black Library and RPG's.
Sorry- you've just been drafted into the Imperial Guard. Strap on your cardboard box and pick up your flashlight, it's time to die fighting orks!
2BlackJack1 wrote: Ok, being an astartes wins this for me. I'd sure hope it'd be for one of the first founding chapters, but I'd take any of 'em.
... you do realize the casualty rate for that, right? Chances're pretty good you die in the process.
Well yes, astartes don't just retire. Not that it'd serve any purpose, considering that war is all they know and they are the best in the galaxy at it. If you make it to a full battle-brother you'll most likely be approaching retirement age for us mere mortals. Being essentially immortal you wouldn't have to worry about such little details like aging that much.
The casualty rate for life itself is 100%. It's certain you'll die in the process.
Yeah... but some deaths are worse than others. For example, if you die in the SM training process, that's that. Meanwhile, I'll be over in the ranks of the gue'vesa with a pulse rifle, armor worth calling armor, and I'll still be able to make sweet love down by the fire. It's a better deal than any in the Imperium. That's why the Tau have such an easy time converting Imperial worlds to their cause.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wyzilla wrote: I wouldn't fight (mainly because I carry about as many diseases as a Nurgle cultist), but would be happy to take up a desk job for the Imperium, join the Adeptus Mechanicus, or become a Naval Officer. The God Emperor is the only hope in the universe (nothing good comes from serving Chaos), the only one who truly rewards service, and isn't flying rodent gak evil.
Plus he seems to have some sort of afterlife of some manner, with such things popping up in various places across the Black Library and RPG's.
Sorry- you've just been drafted into the Imperial Guard. Strap on your cardboard box and pick up your flashlight, it's time to die fighting orks!
The Imperial Guard wouldn't draft me unless they were willing to pay for new legs and guts or they put me in the munitorium.
Harley Quinn wrote: No Eldar option? I'm disappointed.
If not, I suppose like ALEXisAWESOME said above, I'd go to Chaos and worship Slaanesh. Pleasure everywhere.
You are mon'keigh from a backwards, barbaric world. What could you possibly offer the Eldar?
I can cook a reeeeaaalllllyyyyyy good butter cake.
That's enough, right?
Basically any 40k fan who is transferred into this Universe of eternal war knows things too many in that Universe are interested to either know or keep buried. If you find a place where they value your contribution your good. But if your a risk they can't take....
Posting in the background forum means you like the "fluff" and your picture of the place you are going to go is ok maybe.
( I'd still suggest to some they keep as far from getting there as possible. I've seen posts filled to the brim with "fanwank" .... OTOH it will be very enlightening to get the real expierience. )
So if I show up in 40k...
1st try: No records and papers , so the Bureaucrats will hate me. They send me through the whole process of aquiring the neccessary papers and I am safely wandering the Halls of the Adepts for all eternity, from one Office to the other......
Ok, bad Luck so lets reboot.
2nd try: I don't have papers but they have to fill the ranks of the newly assembled Regiment of the Imperial Guard somehow, so I am in. Basic grunt.... but looking forward to have the Big Guns backing me up, lots of friends so I am not alone, and maybe it is a mechanized unit and I can have a nice tank? Please?
3rd try: Got a job and my stuff tends to work nicely, so the cog boys knock on my door. If they find out I know how things work.... they either plan to extract that knowledge from me without care for my well-beeing...because Data and Data is what they really want... or they just take their time and let me show them, so I am somewhere on a Forgeworld and well guarded. Death and ruin or Stored away somewhere. Roll the Dice. Forge the... no don't ! Still a not so bad 50/50 IMHO.
4th try: as a Stranger, I seek refuge and the church offers to tend to the poor Souls whitout any ... no. We know they want something in return. Well versed in the concepts Religion is running on, I could just be the faithful servant of the God-Emperor and no one would find out I was born somewhere else. Where would this take me? Worst case is: stumbling into a corrupted part of the ecclesiarchy. so I'll have to cleanse and purify the fools who are a disgrace to BiG E. Heresy? Witches? Deamons? If I know one fact of 40k, better safe than sorry!
But maybe i am lucky and live a life of peace..... in 40k...
5th try: go big or go home. Join the Astartes. Be that Space Marine, that is exactly like the fluffy Movie Marines and not like the watered down tabletop push over! Yay! Centuries of Boltgunning and chainswording to do! And nobody is going to thank me... because its my Job.
Now excuse me, I'll have to hunt the misguided who choose to select Option 2, 3 or 4 in this thread. Ha!
6th try: Inquisition got wind of my arrival. Lots of Questions. Chance of survival = ...... pretty low...... until I am very lucky and someone likes to keep me around. I don't think they like it if I know more than they do. I guess Ordo Xenos is interested in Maps and geenral composition of IoM opposing xeno, their Tech etc pp. It seems to depend who I met. Another dice roll...
7th and last try: wasn't a planet where i got moved to, was A space vessel. There is so much Crew, they surely don't mind to have one more...
Just "re-materialzing" at the bridge would get me a very short existence in 40k.
So if I am going to stay, I'll have to work my way up. Maybe one day, if my new ride isn't lost in the warp, I'll be Captain on that Bridge. Yay, space battles! no more silly sci-fi "maneuvers" to watch. Be part of the action! And blown to bits maybe....
No matter if it turns out nicely, at least I'd support my own in a Galaxy of Threats and I don't have to be the plaything of foreign powers.
As a Human in 40k there is only one Light in the Darkness and that is the Big E. He protects.
I'd be the equivalent of a rogue governor who would feign loyalty while I had rogue traders bring me DAoT tech, as well as xenos technology in order to build up an independent empire in some far away part of the galaxy.
I'd gather whatever I could get my hands on for resources including any gene-seed I could get my hands on, any mars tech-priests that are radical enough to serve me with free reign for experiments, and as many nulls/blanks as I could my hands on.
I'd give myself all the "perks" of being rich in 40k. Functional immortality from age drugs, personal armies,
I'd personally buy myself a suit of artificer armor and the best forcefield technology available, maybe even have some rummaged tau pulse technology installed at the wrists... but I would not lead conquests from the from the front for risk of.... you know... dying.
I would not stop the worship of the Emperor of Mankind as as God, but I would supplant the High Lord of Terra's authority with my own.
I would create asylum worlds for mutants, and abhumans, and I would look for any psykers on the planets I control in order to put them through rigorous training so that they can resist chaos/ be put to use for military purposes. For hose that could not be trained to control themselves....
I would do one of the following determined by practicality:
1. Have the psyker gene disabled within their body (if thats even possible)
2. Lobotomize them and/or put them to sleep. Little to no pain as possible. Its not their fault they were born a living time-bomb.
3. Brainwash them and drop them off on an enemy planet with orders to cause as much trouble as possible.
In general I would try to raise the living standards of the worlds I controlled to that of 1st world countries in the 21st century.
I would be much less reliant on "meat-grinder" tactics, and more likely to use armored elements or air/naval/orbital support when going to battle with xenos, chaos or the Imperium. I would also support the use of using low grade A.I. or remote-operated robots for use as weapons for when sending a platoon would be a waste of life.
Realistically though, I'd probably just get thrown in a guard regiment and die from being cut in half with a 'choppa from the head down.
Basically any 40k fan who is transferred into this Universe of eternal war knows things too many in that Universe are interested to either know or keep buried.
In an entire galaxies worth of activity though? How much DO we really know? The things we do know are pretty vague. Heck, in the real world, we still know very little about the galaxy, how much can we know about another one? especially one that's made up.?
Basically any 40k fan who is transferred into this Universe of eternal war knows things too many in that Universe are interested to either know or keep buried.
In an entire galaxies worth of activity though? How much DO we really know? The things we do know are pretty vague. Heck, in the real world, we still know very little about the galaxy, how much can we know about another one? especially one that's made up.?
We know the nature of Chaos, and enough secrets about the Imperium and the galaxy as a whole that, if we told the wrong people, we could end up letting Chaos win, unleashing a C'tan on Mars, or providing the Tau with competent space travel, or causing a massive CRUSADE to rescue Vulkan from a trophy room, etc.
Basically any 40k fan who is transferred into this Universe of eternal war knows things too many in that Universe are interested to either know or keep buried.
In an entire galaxies worth of activity though? How much DO we really know? The things we do know are pretty vague. Heck, in the real world, we still know very little about the galaxy, how much can we know about another one? especially one that's made up.?
We know the nature of Chaos, and enough secrets about the Imperium and the galaxy as a whole that, if we told the wrong people, we could end up letting Chaos win, unleashing a C'tan on Mars, or providing the Tau with competent space travel, or causing a massive CRUSADE to rescue Vulkan from a trophy room, etc.
StarDrop wrote: I fell victim to the sweet story telling of Water Caste and selected the answer no.3, not knowing they will sterilize me.
Tau don't sterilize people. In order to believe that the Tau sterilize humans, one has to believe that the Blood Ravens curb-stomped Vect... and that's fething ridiculous.
I fight for this world's military, I don't see why I couldn't fight for theirs.
Based on my career, I'd probably be working for the Adeptus Mechanicus.
The Inquisition would also be preferable.
The Officio Assassinorum would be fine considering I wouldn't be me anymore.
Assassins are forged into something that doesn't care about who they were.
The AM is out of the question though. If I wanted to die that badly, I'd do it myself.
StarDrop wrote: I fell victim to the sweet story telling of Water Caste and selected the answer no.3, not knowing they will sterilize me.
Tau don't sterilize people. In order to believe that the Tau sterilize humans, one has to believe that the Blood Ravens curb-stomped Vect... and that's fething ridiculous.
StarDrop wrote: I fell victim to the sweet story telling of Water Caste and selected the answer no.3, not knowing they will sterilize me.
However, when the Warp opens next time, I'm going rouge. Fight my own cause.
There is only one example of the Tau sterilizing humans, and even that's just a hypothesis for how the human population (that was rebelling) was decreasing on a Tau planet.
Human pocket empire which is democratic and much more humane then the fascist genocidal oppressive IoM. You guys don't get it. The IoM is Nazi Germany on steroids. You have no rights no life nothing. You're a slave.
Wow. Hell no! Just forget your XXIst analysis framework and get down of your high horse. Many people would follow the Imperium not because they are insane supremacist pricks like the ones you're talking about but because the Emperor is actually the only one thing that can keep Chaos at Bay. Even though parts of the system - i.e the Imperium - which was built around the Emperor can be oppressive and corrupted, I don't think there are other ways to unit Mankind better. Look at the poll; even though it's not answered by the billions of trillions of imperial citizens, one can see that many people would try to save themselves before defending the actual glimmer of hope that lies within the Imperial Palace. The Imperium is harsh because it must muster the whole Humanity in an universe where every human available should contribute to the survival of the whole specie. Too much enemies, no time to be sentimental.
(talking about that, being enlisted in the IG does not mean you're automatically sent to a meat grinder, just like Guevesa apologists lurking in this thread seems to think. The IG is the most diverse armed force in the galaxy and for each regiment favouring human waves tactics, there are plenty highly trained units which prefer high precision armoured assault or unconventional warfare like airborne attacks. It's just that GW never talk about them cause not grimdark enough, you see. TLDR; don"t trust the xenos scum.)
Human pocket empire which is democratic and much more humane then the fascist genocidal oppressive IoM. You guys don't get it. The IoM is Nazi Germany on steroids. You have no rights no life nothing. You're a slave.
Wow. Hell no! Just forget your XXIst analysis framework and get down of your high horse. Many people would follow the Imperium not because they are insane supremacist pricks like the ones you're talking about but because the Emperor is actually the only one thing that can keep Chaos at Bay. Even though parts of the system - i.e the Imperium - which was built around the Emperor can be oppressive and corrupted, I don't think there are other ways to unit Mankind better. Look at the poll; even though it's not answered by the billions of trillions of imperial citizens, one can see that many people would try to save themselves before defending the actual glimmer of hope that lies within the Imperial Palace. The Imperium is harsh because it must muster the whole Humanity in an universe where every human available should contribute to the survival of the whole specie. Too much enemies, no time to be sentimental.
(talking about that, being enlisted in the IG does not mean you're automatically sent to a meat grinder, just like Guevesa apologists lurking in this thread seems to think. The IG is the most diverse armed force in the galaxy and for each regiment favouring human waves tactics, there are plenty highly trained units which prefer high precision armoured assault or unconventional warfare like airborne attacks. It's just that GW never talk about them cause not grimdark enough, you see. TLDR; don"t trust the xenos scum.)
But in reality, if you live in the Imperium, chances are pretty high that you'll be a common factory drone who will spend your life working yourself to death and die by the time you're 40. Even if you luck out on the roll of the dice when you're born, you're stuck in whatever social class you're born into. There's a lot of variety to the Imperium, but one thing that's pretty constant is that it's extremely hierarchical and civil rights don't exist. And there are genocidal religious purges for little to no reason all the time. And the general public is kept so ignorant that they can't properly protect themselves or even understand the multitude of threats that could prey on them at any time. For 99% of people in the Imperium, life sucks.
And no, I'm not a Gue'vesa apologist. Tzeentch, all the way, baby. Change we can believe in.
While it's correct that for the vast majority of the Imperium, life isn't great, it's also correct that it isn't that bad either.
I mean, seriously - look at your options. The average member of almost any other race has it worse.
Necrons are barely sentient and have little free will.
Tyranids are not sentient, and get killed and reabsorbed by the Hive Fleet.
Eldar have virtually no free-will and live lives of constant vigilance and duty, as necessity dictates they give everything to their craftworld
Dark Eldar are in constant, deadly competition, and death for them means being eaten by a hungry God
Chaos followers live a similar existence, with the associated danger of turning into a Spawn even if they are successful
Orks are happy, but would you be? Their lives are brutish and short.
Only the Tau, Eldar Exodites, and random pirates have a better life than the average Imperial.
The Tau are a small and weak empire though, and like other (unmentioned in the fluff) smaller races, are vulnerable to being wiped out in totality by many of the other dangers lurking in the galaxy. Their civillians may have comparatively better domestic lives, but they're far more vulnerable than those of any of other civilization to attacks by other factions.
Pirates are not really a civilization, but live self-sustaining lives of freedom. They do however live a very risky existence.
Exodites are in a similar situation to the Tau, but have the backing of the Craftworld Eldar at least due to kinship. They probably have the best life outside the Imperium, all told, as they have both freedom and security.
As for the Imperium? Due to the sheer size, the vast majority will never encounter a hostile force. Most are totally ignorant that things such as Chaos or Tyranids even exist. They may pretty hard and unfulfilled lives, but are they really any worse than say a medieval peasant? It's only from the 20th century onwards that conditions on our real-life world for the average person improved past that of the Imperium now, and they still managed to lead rich lives, as they knew no other life.
So yeah - Imperium all the way, though Exodites have it best of anyone.
One of two places, depending on where I appear in the universe:
Imperial Guard Artillery Regiment, pummeling worlds to dust and slowly working my way through the Imperial Command structure... wouldn't mind eventually wearing a great coat studded with more medals than one could readily count.
Other scenario, appearing in some remote part of the galaxy, would probably make edging on desperate attempts to join up with an Eldar group, Exodite more likely, Craftworld highly unlikely (but if the opportunity presents itself I'd show up.)
Necrons are barely sentient and have little free will.
Except the Lords, who have complete free will and are basically the Vampire Lords/Tomb Kings of the setting thanks to the Newcron fluff.
Tyranids are not sentient, and get killed and reabsorbed by the Hive Fleet.
Since they aren't sentient, it doesn't really matter. The only one's that are remotely conscious are genestealer cultists, and to them, being absorbed is the greatest thing that could ever happen to them. They don't know any different afterwards. The only other Tyranid life form that has enough conscious to be relevant to this conversation is the Hive Mind, which is pretty much COMPLETELY UNTOUCHABLE by every other threat in the setting. Sounds kinda nice, to be honest.
Eldar have virtually no free-will and live lives of constant vigilance and duty, as necessity dictates they give everything to their craftworld
How is this different from having your life dictated on an Imperium world, except that Eldar won't be randomly executed for no reason, live much longer, have more creature comforts due to their advanced technology, and are actually free to choose another path, or even leave the Craftworld if they want to?
Dark Eldar are in constant, deadly competition, and death for them means being eaten by a hungry God
True, though some of them seem to enjoy it.
Chaos followers live a similar existence, with the associated danger of turning into a Spawn even if they are successful
Depends. This is a really simplified view of Chaos followers, pretty much making Daemon Worlds the rule. Many Chaos followers live outside the Warp, in more ordered societies. Some are even Imperial nobles. And they don't constantly fear turning into a spawn. It happens sometimes, but so does getting abducted by Dark Eldar and suffering a fate much worse than death. At least Chaos followers could fight back against that. They're not helpless prey.
If you're a Chaos follower, you're good at something, and you pursue it, you matter. In the Imperium, you only matter if you win the lottery at birth and are born a member of an important class. With Chaos, you have some level of control over your fate. In the Imperium, you have none. To some people, that tips the scales in favor of Chaos.
Orks are happy, but would you be? Their lives are brutish and short.
If I were an Ork, than by my very nature, I would think it was awesome. And some Orks live a pretty long time. They just haz ta be more brutal an' cunnin' than the average git.
Only the Tau, Eldar Exodites, and random pirates have a better life than the average Imperial.
Again, depends. Many pirates are living on the edge of starvation.
The Tau are a small and weak empire though, and like other (unmentioned in the fluff) smaller races, are vulnerable to being wiped out in totality by many of the other dangers lurking in the galaxy. Their civillians may have comparatively better domestic lives, but they're far more vulnerable than those of any of other civilization to attacks by other factions.
Agreed. The Tau enjoy a higher average standard of living, but are as deeply ignorant of the threats they face in the galaxy, leaving them vulnerable.
Pirates are not really a civilization, but live self-sustaining lives of freedom. They do however live a very risky existence.
So, constantly fighting for survival, like the Dark Eldar and more barbaric forms of Chaos.
Exodites are in a similar situation to the Tau, but have the backing of the Craftworld Eldar at least due to kinship. They probably have the best life outside the Imperium, all told, as they have both freedom and security.
I'm not 100% sure if Exodite's souls are vulnerable to Slaanesh or not. It hasn't really been explained in the fluff. Either way, their lives are harder than Craftworld Eldar because they live primitively. When the Exodites were first establishing themselves on planets, many of them died due to harsh conditions.
Also, you forgot about the Harlequins, who seem to have a pretty good deal, to me.
As for the Imperium? Due to the sheer size, the vast majority will never encounter a hostile force. Most are totally ignorant that things such as Chaos or Tyranids even exist.
Which makes them easy, helpless prey.
They may pretty hard and unfulfilled lives, but are they really any worse than say a medieval peasant?
I wouldn't want to be a medieval peasant either.
tl:dr- Better to live one day as a lion than a thousand days as a lamb.
This may not be your viewpoint, but it's a valid viewpoint.
The point was about the average member of a species. Mentioning Necron lords is like saying "Hey, Cardinals and Planetary Governors have it pretty sweet in the Imperium!". This also applies to your assesment of Chaos.
The question was also about what life would be like for you. Yes, Dark Eldar and Orks seem to enjoy things. Nobody here is a Dark Eldar or an Ork. As the average human stands, transplanted into one of those societies/races with your current psychology intact, you would find it horrific.
I'm pretty sure (though not 100%) that I've read Genestealer Cults certainly do not enjoy being reabsorbed. They have no knowledge at all of the Tyranids other than an ill-defined instinctual longing which turns into abject terror as the Hive Fleet approaches. The average cultist will do anything they can not to be absorbed. And again, with your existing human psychology neither would you.
The only point I would maybe concede is the Eldar one. Would you rather have no free-will and a life of constant duty and protection in exchange for safety, or one of comparative personal freedom (as long as the tithes appear on time, and you don't rock the boat) but with no political or economic freedom, and lots of hard work?
Again, though nobody would want to be a pre-20th century serf, their lives still had meaning and moments of joy.
If an average 40k fan with knowledge of the lore/fluff got dropped into the IOM here's what would happen:
1. At some point you'd slip and let out some knowledge that you're not supposed to have as a lowly imperial nobody. You are now a suspected psyker or chaos touched. The Inquisition gets word.
2. Black Ships. Lots of Black Ships.
3. Interrogation and when they eventually detect no latent pysker tendencies that they can use, execution.
Paint_To_Redemption wrote: If an average 40k fan with knowledge of the lore/fluff got dropped into the IOM here's what would happen:
1. At some point you'd slip and let out some knowledge that you're not supposed to have as a lowly imperial nobody. You are now a suspected psyker or chaos touched. The Inquisition gets word.
2. Black Ships. Lots of black ships.
3. Interrogation and when they eventually detect no latent pysker tendencies that they can use, execution.
Guaranteed.
good, teaches em' filthy meat drones not to poke around where they aren't supposed to. Curiosity kills the cat, that's How To Be A Good, Emperor-Fearing Imperial Citizen 101.
Human pocket empire which is democratic and much more humane then the fascist genocidal oppressive IoM. You guys don't get it. The IoM is Nazi Germany on steroids. You have no rights no life nothing. You're a slave.
(talking about that, being enlisted in the IG does not mean you're automatically sent to a meat grinder, just like Guevesa apologists lurking in this thread seems to think. The IG is the most diverse armed force in the galaxy and for each regiment favouring human waves tactics, there are plenty highly trained units which prefer high precision armoured assault or unconventional warfare like airborne attacks. It's just that GW never talk about them cause not grimdark enough, you see. TLDR; don"t trust the xenos scum.)
Remind me how those armored assault regiments and airborne infantry faired on Taros. I may have forgotten...
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Psienesis wrote: There is literally no one in this thread that would survive the "reality" of 40K for very long.
Gothic, mother-fethers, do you speak it?
Eh. The Tau will be understanding to those willing to work for the Greater Good.
I'd also like to point out that many Imperial worlds are more liberal than modern day Earth. The Imperium falls laughably short of the Soviets- let alone Nazi Germany in every account besides how many bodies they stuff into bags on a daily basis.
Remind me how those armored assault regiments and airborne infantry faired on Taros. I may have forgotten...
And do you remind how a perfect combination of violent artillery strikes, precise mechanized assaults and total air superiority allowed Imperial forces under General Gauge to envelop and destroy most of the Tau defenders of the Gel'beth bridge during the following weeks of their first arrival on Daly'th, thus wide opening the Tau defense line and threatening main population centers ?
Taros was one planet and it costs your beloved xenos their Ethereals and many of their soldiers. I hope they will replace them as easily as the Munitorum would replace its ~300000 losses. Tau victory on Taros had no strategic impact at all. The Damocles Gulf weakened the Tau expansion, destroy at least two Tau sectors and ultimately made your hero Farsight break up with your central authority, providing the Ethereal with a highly militarized rebel state on its borders. Hope you'll remember that too !
Regarding the comparison between Nazi Germany and the Imperium, I'd like to point out the fact that the Imperium strictly don't give a flying feth whether your skin is white, red, blue or yellow, whether you're a man who likes women or men or animals, whether your religion Has one or fifty gods or you live in a feodal or a democratic political system. As long you recognize the godness of the Emperor, as long as you pay your tithe to defend him and don't become a Chaos cultist, you're fine. There is no political creed, only the need to recognize the Emperor and its Church, which is a loosely tied organization which can take many forms and don't always looks like the gothic grimdark Catholic church from the Middle Age. Try to say the same thing about the Nazi regime.
Doubtful that modern human would even get a choice. If you did pop in to M41 I suspect your 20th century mannerisms, language and thinking would give you away, especially if you popped in on Terra.
So... who gets their hands on you first?
I'm guessing the Inquisition, though it's entirely possible that the Ecclesiarchy or some other branch of the Administratum would figure you out first. After that? Well, as others have said, they own you. You're a slave. And that's the good news, frighteningly enough.
Get offworld? Nope. Only if you became someone else's servant or lackey. Very few Imperial citizens ever voluntarily acquire the resources to book passage on even a Chartist ship. That eliminates any chance of getting to Xenos space. And if you popped into Xeno territory you'd most certainly be caught and terminated as a spy. Or put into the fighting puts for giggles. Or turned into a plague reservoir, a servitor, a genestealer's gene-boy, a vivisection subject or some other lovely option.
Join a Chaos Cult? Maybe, if you could find one and avoid Imperial authorities of all kinds. If they didn't kill you, and if you survived their initiation rites and the madness associating with Cahos brings. But then, Chaos promises always turn into a different kind if slavery, don't they?
Alternatively, in the Imperium you could just starve to death because you have no documentation and can't get work. Or you might get yourself beaten, robbed, raped, tortured, experimented on and/or sold into slavery by any of a variety of street gangs, cults or unscrupulous rogue actors preying on your ignorance and helplessness. Or worse, if you survive you could become the criminal scum that inflicts all that horror on others.
"In the Grim Darkness of the Future There Is Only War?" Heck no. Say rather "...there is only Misery."
Original Post wrote:Given this state of things, if you were to end up in 40k and have the actual choice of becoming what you want (utopic in the Imperium but still), what would you prefer? "
Saying what would likely happen isn't really the question. It's about who you would prefer to join and in which capacity.
Personally? Imperium all the way. Humanity must lead itself. High Lord of Terra, maybe. Or an Inquisitor (Lord). Work to improve things from high up. But above all work to save humanity.
Psienesis wrote: There is literally no one in this thread that would survive the "reality" of 40K for very long.
Gothic, mother-fethers, do you speak it?
In the novel Sons of Dorn (or Fists of Dorn, I forget), they just take recruits who don't speak the language and hypnotise/force information into thier head.
They'd probably just do the same for you.
I'd imagine in a galaxy wide empire where warp storms and other strangeness can isolate a world for centuries, the language changes strangely, so they make sure there is a way to reinitiate the worlds into the fold.
But in reality, if you live in the Imperium, chances are pretty high that you'll be a common factory drone who will spend your life working yourself to death and die by the time you're 40. Even if you luck out on the roll of the dice when you're born, you're stuck in whatever social class you're born into. There's a lot of variety to the Imperium, but one thing that's pretty constant is that it's extremely hierarchical and civil rights don't exist. And there are genocidal religious purges for little to no reason all the time. And the general public is kept so ignorant that they can't properly protect themselves or even understand the multitude of threats that could prey on them at any time. For 99% of people in the Imperium, life sucks.
Even though you can be right in som aspects, your quantitative methods are quite expeditious. You're assuming that 99% of Imperial citizens have gakky life, but really, you don"t have a clue about this, me or other dakkanauts neither. GW just never talk about the whole swathes of the Imperium that never know war because they are parts of peaceful and well protected sectors. There is no interest in talking about this when you're selling a wargame. But given the fact the Imperium has more or less one million worlds, the actual number of warzones described in the fluff is low. It's quite the same for industrial and hive worlds; for each of these worlds, how many are normal places like our planet. I want to believe this because IMO, it's the most rational POV.
Regarding civil rights, you would rather be wrong I thin. As I have said previously, the Imperium is not trying to impose a political agenda on its worlds. You can be democratic or feodal, they don't give a damn as long as you pay your tithe. Civil rights can exist but again, nobody in GW design teams wants to have a democratic world with a shiny/mary sue cause to fight for. Not grimdark enough. But if YOU want to create suche thing, you can do this, no part of the fluff forbid it. You just have to recognize the Emprah and pay your taxes, that's all.
IoM fan boys are so predictable. Tau or rogue are the only way to go if you have a brain. Depends on if you're more of a bleeding heart pinko or more of an outlaw libertarian. I make no excuses, I love the Tau because I'm a utopian pinko. And you don't get sterilized unless you're problematic. Kroot and Gue'vesa are too valuable as sources of troops and labor for the Tau to genocide them via sterilization. IoM needs to quit the crying; either accept playing for an evil dictatorship and embrace it for what it is (much like Chaos, Nid and Ork players) or join the greater good but stop trying to argue that the genocidal Imperium could ever be the lesser evil. It's like Hitler vs Castro. Is Castro perfect? No, but trying to say that Hitler was a better guy is just no.
IoM fan boys are so predictable. Tau or rogue are the only way to go if you have a brain. Depends on if you're more of a bleeding heart pinko or more of an outlaw libertarian. I make no excuses, I love the Tau because I'm a utopian pinko. And you don't get sterilized unless you're problematic. Kroot and Gue'vesa are too valuable as sources of troops and labor for the Tau to genocide them via sterilization. IoM needs to quit the crying; either accept playing for an evil dictatorship and embrace it for what it is (much like Chaos, Nid and Ork players) or join the greater good but stop trying to argue that the genocidal Imperium could ever be the lesser evil. It's like Hitler vs Castro. Is Castro perfect? No, but trying to say that Hitler was a better guy is just no.
I'd join the Adeptus Mechanicus, go to Mars and help free The Void Dragon.
Hah! The IoM is a joke. They prey to a corpse and sacrifice thousands of people just to keep a corpse's toilet going while corruption spreads across the entire system, inflicting more damage than the forces of Chaos could ever do.
Let the entire universe burn. The weaker races have failed, let the C'tan wipe them off the face of the starts and begin a new cycle.
I'd join the Imperial Guard. Several months of void travel, I get to shoot my pew pew Lasgun a couple of times and die. Better than toiling the years away in some manufactorum.
My options would be small, despite my great general knowledge of the 40K Universe. My best bet would be to somehow try and get word to the Wolves, Ravens, Salamanders and Scars that I potentially have information on their Primarchs, and then offer to exchange that knowledge for protection/resources. Otherwise, with what I know, I'm highly susceptible to being picked up the by the Inquisition.
I could try and bargain with the Inquisition I suppose, but I have little doubt they'd promise me the moon, pump me dry, and then either lock me up or shoot me. Marines on the other hand, are far more likely to keep their word, especially if I pass them the first scrap of information in centuries with regards to the location of their Primarchs.
With a potential small bodyguard of Marines and a small ship/crew (my price for my information), I at least begin to have the freedom to make further plans. On the assumption that I am now trapped in the 40K verse for good, my next priority is to acquire access to the various rejuvenation technologies to extend my lifespan, and some form of continuous income. I might try and arrange an information exchange with the Inquisition with my Marine contacts acting as my intermediaries to keep me safe at arms length. With those resources, I can hire more followers, acquire more gear, and begin to try and decide what role I'd intend to try and play in the 40K verse.
RazgrizOne wrote: Civil rights can exist but again, nobody in GW design teams wants to have a democratic world with a shiny/mary sue cause to fight for. Not grimdark enough.
*cough* Ultramar *cough*
If I were given a choice, I think living on some Ultramarine world would be a pretty neat deal considering the alternatives.
That's where an entire STC library is hidden by some local cult. Considering a couple of scouts got a planet each for finding a slightly better version of the standard Space Marine combat knife, you would live out your days in unimaginable luxury, and be hailed as a saviour of Humanity for all of time.
Silverthorne wrote: Hell yes I would. Especially if I was a rogue trader. It's like being a system level admiral, but you're filthy rich, strapped with arcane technology, and probably have an extensive harem of Uber space hotties. Hell yeah sign me up. I'll risk the occasional corsair or chaos incursion for some of that action.
Isn't this choice two? I'm all for being a Space pirate, yo, but I don't wanna be executed. I wanna praise the Emperor... but still enjoy life.
I suppose that if I were forced to either serve officially or be a traitor, I'd be a Space Wolf. Those guys know how to party, are super powerful, and watch out for each other. Dunno if Space Marines can even have sex, so the ladies may not be on the table, but hey- joining the Space Wolves is like joining a never ending frat party.
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Ketara wrote: My options would be small, despite my great general knowledge of the 40K Universe. My best bet would be to somehow try and get word to the Wolves, Ravens, Salamanders and Scars that I potentially have information on their Primarchs, and then offer to exchange that knowledge for protection/resources. Otherwise, with what I know, I'm highly susceptible to being picked up the by the Inquisition.
I could try and bargain with the Inquisition I suppose, but I have little doubt they'd promise me the moon, pump me dry, and then either lock me up or shoot me. Marines on the other hand, are far more likely to keep their word, especially if I pass them the first scrap of information in centuries with regards to the location of their Primarchs.
With a potential small bodyguard of Marines and a small ship/crew (my price for my information), I at least begin to have the freedom to make further plans. On the assumption that I am now trapped in the 40K verse for good, my next priority is to acquire access to the various rejuvenation technologies to extend my lifespan, and some form of continuous income. I might try and arrange an information exchange with the Inquisition with my Marine contacts acting as my intermediaries to keep me safe at arms length. With those resources, I can hire more followers, acquire more gear, and begin to try and decide what role I'd intend to try and play in the 40K verse.
Go for the Space Wolves. They don't like the Inquisition so they'll be the most willing to help you evade/negotiate with them as opposed to simply turning you in.
Isn't this choice two? I'm all for being a Space pirate, yo, but I don't wanna be executed. I wanna praise the Emperor... but still enjoy life.
If I recall correctly, Rogue Trader have an sanction to act on behalf on the Imperium. They are tasked to explore and monitor the uncharted worlds or the remote imperial planets and enforce Imperial authority there. They can be half pirates or traffickers but, still, they travel with the Emperor's will.
Isn't this choice two? I'm all for being a Space pirate, yo, but I don't wanna be executed. I wanna praise the Emperor... but still enjoy life.
If I recall correctly, Rogue Trader have an sanction to act on behalf on the Imperium. They are tasked to explore and monitor the uncharted worlds or the remote imperial planets and enforce Imperial authority there. They can be half pirates or traffickers but, still, they travel with the Emperor's will.
And suddenly I'm a Rogue Trader. Off, to explore the unknown, kill the heretic, and plunder the loot! Beware, women, for the rowdiest llama in the galaxy has been let loose!
I bet if you could find a decently intelligent synapse creature you could strike some kind of deal with the hive mind, I'll smuggle rippers and warriors onto imperial worlds and in exchange you resurrect me every time I die in a similar manner to hive tyrants. After the all theTyranids are more than just a mindless swarm and always looking for easier/more efficient ways to consume worlds.
AtraUnam wrote: I bet if you could find a decently intelligent synapse creature you could strike some kind of deal with the hive mind, I'll smuggle rippers and warriors onto imperial worlds and in exchange you resurrect me every time I die in a similar manner to hive tyrants. After the all theTyranids are more than just a mindless swarm and always looking for easier/more efficient ways to consume worlds.
1. The Tyrannids have been doing pretty well without you, they have no need for one smugler when they have Genestealers.
2. That was the most heretical thing I've ever heard in my life. I may only be a Rogue Trader, but I solemnly swear on the Emperor that I'll hunt you down and bring you to glorious justice.
Shas'Nel Tau wrote: IoM fan boys are so predictable. Tau or rogue are the only way to go if you have a brain. Depends on if you're more of a bleeding heart pinko or more of an outlaw libertarian. I make no excuses, I love the Tau because I'm a utopian pinko. And you don't get sterilized unless you're problematic. Kroot and Gue'vesa are too valuable as sources of troops and labor for the Tau to genocide them via sterilization. IoM needs to quit the crying; either accept playing for an evil dictatorship and embrace it for what it is (much like Chaos, Nid and Ork players) or join the greater good but stop trying to argue that the genocidal Imperium could ever be the lesser evil. It's like Hitler vs Castro. Is Castro perfect? No, but trying to say that Hitler was a better guy is just no.
If I spoke Gothic? I would gladly offer my services to the Inquisition. The Emperor's dream for Humanity will be realized only once the stars are wiped clean of the filth of the Xeno, the Heretic, and the Mutant.
Shas'Nel Tau wrote: IoM fan boys are so predictable. Tau or rogue are the only way to go if you have a brain. Depends on if you're more of a bleeding heart pinko or more of an outlaw libertarian. I make no excuses, I love the Tau because I'm a utopian pinko. And you don't get sterilized unless you're problematic. Kroot and Gue'vesa are too valuable as sources of troops and labor for the Tau to genocide them via sterilization. IoM needs to quit the crying; either accept playing for an evil dictatorship and embrace it for what it is (much like Chaos, Nid and Ork players) or join the greater good but stop trying to argue that the genocidal Imperium could ever be the lesser evil. It's like Hitler vs Castro. Is Castro perfect? No, but trying to say that Hitler was a better guy is just no.
If I spoke Gothic? I would gladly offer my services to the Inquisition. The Emperor's dream for Humanity will be realized only once the stars are wiped clean of the filth of the Xeno, the Heretic, and the Mutant.
I love how Tau fanboys like to spout off morality and self righteousness when in fact they are blinding themselves to the greater truth.
Their forces are not prepared for the galaxy. They may have allies and technology and drones, but they lack the most important knowledge of all: knowledge of the Warp. Their leadership ignores Chaos and strikes at the only empire that can defeat it's forces. If the Tau had it their way, they would destroy the Orks and the Imperium... and then Abaddon would descend on them, break them over his knee like Bane did Bats, and the galaxy would be lost.
Or, you know. All those humans they're absorbing in their empire? I have no doubt there will be a ton of cultists and psychers in there. Since the Tau have no experience nor stomach to make their own Black Ships and Inquisition... maybe Abaddon won't even need to set foot outside of the Warp. The Tau will do all the work for him.
I don't fight for the Emperor because I like his methods. I don't fight for him because I think it's cool to murder a planet for one cultist. I fight for him because even though it's brutal... his justice is right. Chaos must be defeated because desperate times call for desperate measures... and this is the most desperate of times.
Either way, I'm a Rogue Trader. I couldn't care less about anyone else. The Emperor has blessed me, on free to execute heretics, mingle with friendly xenos in order to use them for my purposes, amass a lot of wealth, amass a harem, and best of all... I'm still loyal to the Imperium. Lion El'Johnson said loyalty is it's own reward, but heck... the Emperor protects AND he provides fat stacks. FOR THE EMPEROR!
"Tau Empire fan boys are so predictable. Ethereals or Farsight Enclaves are the only way to go if you have a brain. Depends on if you're more of a bleeding heart pinko or more of an outlaw libertarian. I make no excuses, I love the Imperium because I'm a utopian pinko. And you don't get sterilized unless you're problematic. Regular human are too valuable as sources of troops and labor for the Imperium to genocide them via sterilization. Tau Empire needs to quit the crying; either accept playing for an imperialist dictatorship and embrace it for what it is (much like Chaos, Nid and Ork players) or join the True Light of the Golden Throne but stop trying to argue that the orwellian Tau could ever be the lesser evil. It's like Hitler vs Castro. Is Castro perfect? No, but trying to say that Hitler was a better guy is just no."
Definitely IMPERIUM. They may be nuts genocidal tyranny, but against chaos you need to be. Dorian gray when you posted that Nazi b.s., you DO realize that was to combat chaos, right? And no, hating cross it's not like hearing other human races. It's eliminating competition for resources, like wolves tearing up coyotes. Either way, I go imperium. If I knew fit certain I'd survive training and could pick rank, I'd be an ultramarine tactical sergeant. Otherwise, I'd be an inquisitor for certain.
I would totally be a Rouge Trader. With a former IG sargent as my muscle, a no-nonsence Navigator and a Disenfranchised Ad Mech mechanic. And a beautiful Eldar concubine who realy is the one in control but lets me think I am the one in charge. I of course have a suit of custom made artificer armor and range of awesome weapons including a paragon blade and a matching pair of aerotech pistols that resemble Colt revolvers.
Lord Blackscale wrote: I would totally be a Rouge Trader. With a former IG sargent as my muscle, a no-nonsence Navigator and a Disenfranchised Ad Mech mechanic. And a beautiful Eldar concubine who realy is the one in control but lets me think I am the one in charge. I of course have a suit of custom made artificer armor and range of awesome weapons including a paragon blade and a matching pair of aerotech pistols that resemble Colt revolvers.
I love Eldar concubines as much as the next guy, but we're pirates, and pirates are free! We're in control of our ships and smack fools because we can.
You know, I wonder why the Rogue Traders don't get more press. We're clearly much more awesome and happier than some space monk in power armor (no heresy, pls)
I'd wanna be an inquisitorial aspirant. judging by how I look, talk, and act, there would be tests, but the knowledge that I would have would either A) get me killed, or B) give me a job, hopefully the latter.
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Furyou Miko wrote: Because you're borderline heretics and GW is scared of their fans realising that they ripped off Star Wars too.
What? care to explain? because they both have space ships? last time I checked, the closest similarity MAY be the force and psykers, beyond that, nothing.
RTs are closer to Star Trek than Star Wars... but, on the SW kick, RTs are basically variations of Han Solo, when Han Solo was a Corellian spice-smuggler.
Psienesis wrote: RTs are closer to Star Trek than Star Wars... but, on the SW kick, RTs are basically variations of Han Solo, when Han Solo was a Corellian spice-smuggler.
Except that RTs are government-sanctioned traders, not smugglers. There's a reason the Inquisition generally turns a blind eye to RTs when it comes to Xeno tech.
Psienesis wrote: RTs are closer to Star Trek than Star Wars... but, on the SW kick, RTs are basically variations of Han Solo, when Han Solo was a Corellian spice-smuggler.
And Star Wars was in turn ripped clean from 30's to 50's pulp sci fi.
Psienesis wrote: RTs are closer to Star Trek than Star Wars... but, on the SW kick, RTs are basically variations of Han Solo, when Han Solo was a Corellian spice-smuggler.
Except that RTs are government-sanctioned traders, not smugglers. There's a reason the Inquisition generally turns a blind eye to RTs when it comes to Xeno tech.
Not just government sanctioned. Many Rogue Trader family's have charters that were signed by the Emperor himself.
Rogue Traders are also a form of diplomatic corps on the fringes of the Imperium, including all the spying and double-dealing that goes hand in hand with that.
They can make backroom deals where the Imperium at large requires deniability, trading in Xenos tech, or providing military support to otherwise undesirable elements, and it can be written off as them going off-script if discovered. Often a Rogue Trader will broker a deal for support or passage from say pirates or Eldar, whereas the Imperium cannot be seen to do that publicly.
It allows them to use double standards in certain situations without the citizens at large getting indignant, and of course the Traders are well compensated for their actions. Like the Inquisition though, Traders vary wildly in tactics and motivation, and while some Traderss and Inquisitors will happily do deals with aliens, others are more likely to always react with violence towards them.
Also, a small part of the fluff mentions it is possible to be a Trader and an Inquisitor at the same time, though very rare. As it is considered essentially heresy to refuse a warrant of trade (being as they are sanctioned by the Emperor in most cases) it's an extremely expensive way to get rid of otherwise untouchable people and send them into a form of (vastly wealthy) exile at the frontiers.
If an Inquisitor was making too much trouble for certain High Lords, this is a legal and convenient way to get them out of their hair without causing too much friction.
Also, attacking GW for ripping off Star Wars is pretty funny. If ANYTHING rivals 40k for 'borrowing' from other sources, it's Star Wars. Virtually every single notable element is ripped off. It stole liberally from The Foundation, Lensman, The Hidden Fortress, WW2 cinema dogfight footage, and The Hero With a Thousand Faces to name a few. George Lucas happily concedes all of this.
Psienesis wrote: RTs are closer to Star Trek than Star Wars... but, on the SW kick, RTs are basically variations of Han Solo, when Han Solo was a Corellian spice-smuggler.
Except that RTs are government-sanctioned traders, not smugglers. There's a reason the Inquisition generally turns a blind eye to RTs when it comes to Xeno tech.
Han Solo is the archetypical merchant-adventurer though, which is what Rogue Traders are. On the dodgy side of the law, but with enough knowledge and daring to work around the legal side of things.
40k just combined that with the Privateer archetype to make them fit into the bureaucratic nightmare that is 40k. Most Rogue Trader letters of marque are fake, after all.
Most Rogue Trader letters of marque are fake after all
I thought they were very precious legacies from the Great Crusade Era?
My understanding of this is that a lot (though not most) are 'fake' in the sense that they were not issued by the Emperor, but are still officially issued warrants from the Imperium. It's just the Imperium that did the faking of their 'Emperor-sanctioned' status.
The reason being that technically only the Emperor can issue warrants, and obviously their political value meant the Imperium needed to be able to issue new ones so as to give out favours, and also to dilute the accrued power of ancient Trader families.
I don't think anyone is actually running around with a truly fake (non-Imeprial issued) warrant, as due to the power they contain, there'd be a lot of checks and balances to make sure a Rogue Trader was legit. Bear in mind they are given a ton of Imperial resources to carry out their missions, and they wouldn't just hand out a fleet of ships to a common forger.
Imo, every factions in warhammer 40k are purposefully F. They all take random stupid decision, and have no chance of surviving in a galaxy of war. Orks are probably the less stupid faction, just because they build toward some sort of Jungle Rules Utopia, fought without lust of legislative power or some political ambition.
Imperium is rotten to the core. The creation of the Inquisition is a good enought reason for anyone with a bit of common sense to GTFO. Problem is: most man/woman can't because the Inquisition is so spread out, it feels like there is no escaping it. When you feel like your country/nation is becomming too radical, you need to move out NOW, because after the regime is in place, you are stuck there.
Tau at least aint xenophobic and usually talk before shooting, but I'm not too sure about their mind trick and brainwashing technique (havent read enough lore).
Chaos is just soo stupid lol. It's like anarchist that band together to achieve a certain goal, which completly defy the purpose of being an anarchist lol. I mean, if you are into getting mutated and stuff, sure, Chaos is the way to go.
What would be the createst place to be, would be with some Imperium Separatist. Bring the war to the Imperium doorstep, crush the Inquisition, and free the human from the grip of the Imperium. The fact is: for most human, it will stay and feel the same. But in truth, its just better. What does the Imperium do? Protect (ok they arent that great at it with their burn everything tactics) the human in exchange for something (taxes, conscript, etc) But in top of that, if you say something out of place, the Imperium is at your door, with a flamer. A new regime could provide the same services, protecting the humans, but without having that xenophobic and paranoiac mentality. Put in like that: during the medieval time, some Lords ruled over their land with the power of fear, but some didn't, because it wasn't needed. It has been prove many time over the course of history (and by some social study) that fear will only make you do so much. There is other, and better way to united the humans and protect them from invaders.
Most Rogue Trader letters of marque are fake after all
I thought they were very precious legacies from the Great Crusade Era?
My understanding of this is that a lot (though not most) are 'fake' in the sense that they were not issued by the Emperor, but are still officially issued warrants from the Imperium. It's just the Imperium that did the faking of their 'Emperor-sanctioned' status.
The reason being that technically only the Emperor can issue warrants, and obviously their political value meant the Imperium needed to be able to issue new ones so as to give out favours, and also to dilute the accrued power of ancient Trader families.
I don't think anyone is actually running around with a truly fake (non-Imeprial issued) warrant, as due to the power they contain, there'd be a lot of checks and balances to make sure a Rogue Trader was legit. Bear in mind they are given a ton of Imperial resources to carry out their missions, and they wouldn't just hand out a fleet of ships to a common forger.
The ones issued by the Emperor are basically "go anywhere, do anything" levels of permission. That makes them extremely valuable. The ones issued by the Imperium can be far more restrictive (can operate in a specific region of space, does not permit use of xeno or archaeotech, requires them to carry Ecclesiarchy missionaries, etc.) and are thus slightly less-valuable. Warrants of Trade are not restricted to issue by the Emperor, however, they can also be issued by the Ecclesiarchy, the Inquisition or the Mechanicus. Think of them as Letters of Marque, which could be issued by the crowns of various nations or by the lords of the various colonies in the New World.
. I should have said my poll is only dealing with military tasks, which are the bread and butter of the game !
( I'd still suggest to some they keep as far from getting there as possible. I've seen posts filled to the brim with "fanwank" .... 
cleanse and purify 
