For as long as ‘Star Wars’ movies have been released to the home entertainment market, changes have been made to them. Now Disney finally looks to set things straight With the release of the original theatrical cuts of the first three 'Star Wars’ movies.
While not officially confirmed just yet, Empire Magazine reports that Hollywood director, producer and screenwriter John Landis revealed as much in a Q&A in Orlando, Florida.
A tweet from Empire’s official account broke the news, saying: “At a Q&A tonight John Landis dropped that Disney are finally going to re-release the theatrical cuts of the original Star Wars trilogy.”
They followed that up with another explaining: “Apparently George [Lucas] mentioned it when last they spoke. Somebody put Yub Nub on. Let the celebrations commence!”
George Lucas has been tinkering with his movies for a long time and has come under fire for a lot of the changes he’s made. Some have certainly been better than others but for all the remixed audio there is also a bunch of CGI rocks hiding R2-D2, Vader yelling “Nooooo!” at the end of 'Return of the Jedi’ and that awful band in Jabba’s Palace.
Fans have been calling for the release of the original theatrical cuts since Disney first acquired the 'Star Wars’ license in 2012 and rumours of such plans have been circulating ever since.
A release in time for Christmas and the much more important Holy event, the release of 'Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens’, would be the most logical time for Disney to re-release the films.
'The Force Awakens’ is out on 17 December 2015.
Rejoice! Our pain and suffering shall be coming to an end.
Said it, dint I? Said: "Now that Disney has the Star Wars license, it's only a matter of time before someone realizes they can sell a version of the movie with less content, charge more cash for it, and sleep on mattresses stuffed with money."
Super exciting. I've been holding off introducing my child to Star Wars until I can definitively show him that despite what some might say, Han shot first.
That's the key piece in this puzzle. I wouldn't place too much stock in what Landis has to say in the matter and I still don't think it's ever going to happen.
That's the key piece in this puzzle. I wouldn't place too much stock in what Landis has to say in the matter and I still don't think it's ever going to happen.
While not confirmed yet, there is zero reason not to do this, and every reason to do it.
They'd sell by the bucket load and for almost no effort on Disney's part.
Heck, you could probably do in a week. Design a special case for it, get the original film out of storage, send it to production, make tons of $$$
Grey Templar wrote: While not confirmed yet, there is zero reason not to do this, and every reason to do it.
They'd sell by the bucket load and for almost no effort on Disney's part.
Heck, you could probably do in a week. Design a special case for it, get the original film out of storage, send it to production, make tons of $$$
There's lots of reasons not to do it. Most importantly, Fox own the rights to Star Wars indefinitely and distribution rights for home video, theatrical and non-theatrical rights to the other five movies worldwide until 2020.
So yeah, lots of money is to be made if it happened. The question is, who gets that money?
I quite agree, I consider them the definitive editions. They look markedly better than the original versions in every way, and while stuff was added, very little was actually changed. Unlike the last round of releases, which weren't really necessary. A blu-ray release of the Special Edition is all that was really needed, but Lucas had to meddle for the sake of meddling.
I also think the adamant arguments about Han shot first are basically saying, "I'm okay with Han being a cold blooded murderer".
To be fair, I'm totally cool with that, but at the same time, the slight edit is a fair trade for much better effects and modern CGI.
I also think the adamant arguments about Han shot first are basically saying, "I'm okay with Han being a cold blooded murderer".
Why yes, yes I am ok with that. I think it was an important part of his character.
I agree.
It's also important to remember that they weren't just hanging out, shooting the gak and drinking blue milk... Greedo had cornered Han with his blaster pistol drawn.
I also think the adamant arguments about Han shot first are basically saying, "I'm okay with Han being a cold blooded murderer".
Why yes, yes I am ok with that. I think it was an important part of his character.
Absolutely! Without Han being, at the very least, a morally questionable character, his redemption at the end of New Hope is weakened.
Let's see... He's a smuggler for a crime lord. He's hanging out in the proverbial "hive of scum and villany". He doesn't bat an eye when Obi Wan defends Luke in the bar.
Heck, his redemption is a foreshadowing of Vader's story arc.
So, yeah, I have no problem with Han not being a squeeky-clean white hat to start. Makes him a more interesting character, makes his story line more compelling, and how the movie was originally shot!
And, yes, I am the proud owner of a "Han Shot First!" T-shirt!
Pretty much expected this for a long time. Easy money to be made. Especially if done up as one really nice box set with all the versions of the movies included in high-def.
Anyway, the whole "Han shot first because he's a badass/morally questionable person" never quite rang true with me. He is, after all, cornered in a booth by a bounty hunter who has a gun drawn on him and is directly telling him there's a death sentence on him from Jabba and Greedo's there to collect. It's simple self-defense. Han shot first, yes, but Greedo drew first. The only real problem I have with the new version of the scene is just badly they tried to make it look with that little head-dodge.
Grey Templar wrote: While not confirmed yet, there is zero reason not to do this, and every reason to do it.
They'd sell by the bucket load and for almost no effort on Disney's part.
Heck, you could probably do in a week. Design a special case for it, get the original film out of storage, send it to production, make tons of $$$
There's lots of reasons not to do it. Most importantly, Fox own the rights to Star Wars indefinitely and distribution rights for home video, theatrical and non-theatrical rights to the other five movies worldwide until 2020.
So yeah, lots of money is to be made if it happened. The question is, who gets that money?
that's what I heard as well. Don't get me wrong Disney would still get a dozen dump trucks full of money, but it just sticks in their craw that Fox would also get a dozen dump trucks full of money.
And somehow in Hollywood stopping the other guy from making money is considered as important as actually, y'know, making money.
hotsauceman1 wrote: I'm pretty sure I have a DVD of theatrical cut. Unmastered edition.
Is it an official one? Because the only way I could see you having one is if it was a DVD copied from an old VHS of the original trilogy. IIRC this was the only release of the movie prior to Lucas's "remastering" and no unedited DVDs were ever made.
hotsauceman1 wrote: I'm pretty sure I have a DVD of theatrical cut. Unmastered edition.
IIRC there was a blue ray release with the theatrical versions (maybe with remixed sound) as an extra. But never a stand alone release and the blue rays are OOP.
hotsauceman1 wrote: I'm pretty sure I have a DVD of theatrical cut. Unmastered edition.
IIRC there was a blue ray release with the theatrical versions (maybe with remixed sound) as an extra. But never a stand alone release and the blue rays are OOP.
N they are dvds and have thetheatrical cut as an extra.
hotsauceman1 wrote: I'm pretty sure I have a DVD of theatrical cut. Unmastered edition.
IIRC there was a blue ray release with the theatrical versions (maybe with remixed sound) as an extra. But never a stand alone release and the blue rays are OOP.
N they are dvds and have thetheatrical cut as an extra.
I've always assumed their would be--or should be--but never been able to find them.
There are many bits of the Special Editions I loathe, but also bits which are an undeniable improvement e.g.
Luke's speeder looks like it is flying
Han and Chewie running into a hanger full of Storm Troopers is pretty cool
The Death Star battle (Yavin flyby excepted) looks sooooooooo much better.
Those extra Wampa bits work quite well
The Battle of Hoth looks soooooooooooo much better
Most of the extra stuff in Jedi can sod off, but the space scenes in the Battle of Endor are that much more polished.
hotsauceman1 wrote: I'm pretty sure I have a DVD of theatrical cut. Unmastered edition.
Is it an official one? Because the only way I could see you having one is if it was a DVD copied from an old VHS of the original trilogy. IIRC this was the only release of the movie prior to Lucas's "remastering" and no unedited DVDs were ever made.
No, there was a DVD, not Blu-Ray, release of the OT that included the theatrical cuts as a second, bonus disc in each box. I have those films, and they are the real deal, even if they don't look much better than the VHS versions. At least they are widescreen instead of pan and scan. The laserdisc versions are cleaner in my inexpert opinion.
I wouldn't mind a copy of the originals just for posterity and because that is what actually started it all. Of course I don't own any because my enjoyment of Star Wars doesn't make me buy every version of it. I also think all the prequels, even Revenge of the Sith, were just awful and hold up even worse than the original films.
Jedi were better as Samurai stand ins, no Wuxia leaping nancy boys.
I agree that some of the changes Lucas made were good. Like the more polished space battles, but all the unnecessary things like Greedo, random rocks, or stuff like that should get cut.
I've got the novelisation ghostwritten by Alan Dean Foster, based on not-quite-final scripts. I can't be bothered to go downstairs and look up the passage in question, though. I only got interested in that scene with Greedo when the internet started obsessing over it. I can't say I'd even noticed who shot who first before then.
The Special Wfitions could do with having Jabba in ANH, the pointless shots of Vader leaving Bespin in TESB and the celebration scenes at the end of TROTJ removed. Other than that, I don't think anything makes much difference. Not enough to buy them again, that's for sure.
I found the flow of the originals to be an excellent thing. The CGI looks so jarringly out of place next to the models, that I'll buy it for the consistency. It's kind of like the Lego movie shifting into real life, but without any scriptural explanation for the twist.
I think one of the issues, besides tampering with history, is that part of what made the original films work was the collaboration between the cast and crew whereas the SE and prequels were all Turd Ferguson (GL) and a bunch of Yes Men.
Also the title of the original film is Star Wars and not Star Wars: Episode V: A New Hope. I've seen the posters, books, toys, and even the theater marquees and they just say Star Wars. THIS RETCONNING WILL NOT STAND
Ahtman wrote: Also the title of the original film is Star Wars and not Star Wars: Episode V: A New Hope. I've seen the posters, books, toys, and even the theater marquees and they just say Star Wars. THIS RETCONNING WILL NOT STAND
The posters may have originally just said 'Star Wars' but the 'Episode IV: A New Hope' bit was always there in the opening crawl.
Ahtman wrote: Also the title of the original film is Star Wars and not Star Wars: Episode V: A New Hope. I've seen the posters, books, toys, and even the theater marquees and they just say Star Wars. THIS RETCONNING WILL NOT STAND
The posters may have originally just said 'Star Wars' but the 'Episode IV: A New Hope' bit was always there in the opening crawl.
None of that changes that the actual title was/is just Star Wars. I never said it wasn't in the opening crawl, so it seems strange to argue that unless you just like to type to hear the sound of keys clacking.
In fact none of the films had 'episode X' anywhere in their original titles until cinematic abortions abortions were tossed onscreen almost two decades later.
The point was that Star Wars, Episode IV: A New Hope was the full title. They just didn't use the full title on the posters. Probably to avoid confusing people until they were already inside the cinema.
You cannot fix trash actors, terrible writing and poor timing with a few bandaid fixes.
The actors weren't the problem. There was a lot of outstanding talent in that cast... But they can ultimately only be as good as the director allows them to be.
insaniak wrote: The point was that Star Wars, Episode IV: A New Hope was the full title. They just didn't use the full title on the posters. Probably to avoid confusing people until they were already inside the cinema.
All this willful naivety and retconning of history is hurting you. Why would you hurt yourself in such a fashion?
Here are the original titles as they appeared:
Star Wars
Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back
Star Wars: Return of the Jedi
Adding "Episode X" to every item/art/toy/blu-ray/DVDs/poster didn't happen until the horror show that was the prequels. Up until that point it was just in the crawler, then later GL got full control and ignored Kirk Lazarus' advice.
insaniak wrote: The point was that Star Wars, Episode IV: A New Hope was the full title. They just didn't use the full title on the posters. Probably to avoid confusing people until they were already inside the cinema.
All this willful naivety and retconning of history is hurting you. Why would you hurt yourself in such a fashion?
Here are the original titles as they appeared:
Star Wars
Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back
Star Wars: Return of the Jedi
Adding "Episode X" to every item/art/toy/blu-ray/DVDs/poster didn't happen until the horror show that was the prequels. Up until that point it was just in the crawler, then later GL got full control and ignored Kirk Lazarus' advice.
LoL! That was subtle- and made me laugh much harder than just seeing the meme again would have.
Mr Morden wrote: Would it not be better to go back and fix the streaming pile of C%$p that are the prequals?
You cannot fix trash actors, terrible writing and poor timing with a few bandaid fixes.
The actors weren't bad. It was bad directing, horrible scripts, and generally forcing them to try and act on sets which were nothing more than green rooms.
Mr Morden wrote: Would it not be better to go back and fix the streaming pile of C%$p that are the prequals?
I thought JJ Abrams was already doing that by giving us new movies to help us forget the prequels?
The sad part about the prequels is that you can see the good story in there that George wrote, but it's lost under his horrible scriptwriting, poor character direction, and his decision to also make them into hours-long commercials for Skywalker Sound and Industrial Light and Magic by focusing more on the shiny and less on the substance.
Mr Morden wrote: Would it not be better to go back and fix the streaming pile of C%$p that are the prequals?
Nah, the prequels aren't as bad as the original trilogy. The original trilogy movies are boring, the plot is cheap, overused and predictable, Luke Skywalker is one of the most awful protagonists ever, scenes that are supposed to be epic feel anticlimactic and everything has horrible, fake-looking special effects. Just compare the fight between Obi-Wan and Anakin in Revenge of the Sith with the fight between Obi-Wan and Darth Vader in A New Hope. The first one is epic, the second is like two rheumatic old men pushing their walking canes together, which is horrible for something that is supposed to be such a climactic event. The Original Trilogy may have been really good back in the prehistoric times of the '70s and '80s, but it has not aged well. They are not bad movies, even now, but they do fall short in many ways when compared to modern movies.
You guys are have grown too old and nostalgic about it to see
I wonder to what extent it is possible to update the Original Trilogy with shiny new effects...
Mr Morden wrote: Would it not be better to go back and fix the streaming pile of C%$p that are the prequals?
Nah, the prequels aren't as bad as the original trilogy. The original trilogy movies are boring, the plot is cheap, overused and predictable, Luke Skywalker is one of the most awful protagonists ever, scenes that are supposed to be epic feel anticlimactic and everything has horrible, fake-looking special effects. Just compare the fight between Obi-Wan and Anakin in Revenge of the Sith with the fight between Obi-Wan and Darth Vader in A New Hope. The first one is epic, the second is like two rheumatic old men pushing their walking canes together, which is horrible for something that is supposed to be such a climactic event. The Original Trilogy may have been really good back in the prehistoric times of the '70s and '80s, but it has not aged well. They are not bad movies, even now, but they do fall short in many ways when compared to modern movies.
You guys are have grown too old and nostalgic about it to see
I wonder to what extent it is possible to update the Original Trilogy with shiny new effects...
Lucas can say what he wants, the way Harrison acts out that scene is absolutely with the knowledge he is about to shot Greedo in the face before he gets a chance to fire.
Ahtman wrote: Also the title of the original film is Star Wars and not Star Wars: Episode V: A New Hope. I've seen the posters, books, toys, and even the theater marquees and they just say Star Wars. THIS RETCONNING WILL NOT STAND
The posters may have originally just said 'Star Wars' but the 'Episode IV: A New Hope' bit was always there in the opening crawl.
I thought I heard that was added shortly after the first theatrical release, maybe for the second or third, once it was clear the movie had legs.
Star Wars came back into theaters pretty regularly back in those days before home media.
Grey Templar wrote: I thought at first it was just New Hope and the episode numbers only got added later?
The episode number was always in the crawler because the idea was to emulate old serial films and to make it seem as if they were starting past the first part. I don't recall the episode being added to the titles of the film until much later.
Ahtman wrote: Also the title of the original film is Star Wars and not Star Wars: Episode V: A New Hope. I've seen the posters, books, toys, and even the theater marquees and they just say Star Wars. THIS RETCONNING WILL NOT STAND
The posters may have originally just said 'Star Wars' but the 'Episode IV: A New Hope' bit was always there in the opening crawl.
I remember it not being there when I saw the film on first release in 1977, but this may be false memory syndrome.
Mr Morden wrote: Would it not be better to go back and fix the streaming pile of C%$p that are the prequals?
Nah, the prequels aren't as bad as the original trilogy. The original trilogy movies are boring, the plot is cheap, overused and predictable, Luke Skywalker is one of the most awful protagonists ever, scenes that are supposed to be epic feel anticlimactic and everything has horrible, fake-looking special effects. Just compare the fight between Obi-Wan and Anakin in Revenge of the Sith with the fight between Obi-Wan and Darth Vader in A New Hope. The first one is epic, the second is like two rheumatic old men pushing their walking canes together, which is horrible for something that is supposed to be such a climactic event. The Original Trilogy may have been really good back in the prehistoric times of the '70s and '80s, but it has not aged well. They are not bad movies, even now, but they do fall short in many ways when compared to modern movies.
You guys are have grown too old and nostalgic about it to see
I wonder to what extent it is possible to update the Original Trilogy with shiny new effects...
Each to theri own
For me the older film do not suffer from that bane of modern film making - allowing films ot be massively overlong, packed full of bloat.
The fight scene you descibe is ruined for me by the awful slapstick of that Binks abomination - like most of the film its all flash and no substance.
Ditto. The Special Editions added cool shots to the Battle of Yavin, made Mos Eisley a bigger and more interesting place, and even added Jabba into the first film (although the animation was terrible, and was fixed in later revisions). And then in the other two... not a whole lot changed. The most recent change, Vader going "Nooooo!" when Palpy is zapping Luke, that was terrible, but really there was nothing wrong with the changes.
Natalie Portman, that horrible Anakin kid, 90% of all background / side actors taking extra lessons in the "Try too hard class"? Even Liam Neeson, as hyped as he is, isn't much of a good actor. His skills are limited to "look grim".
Natalie Portman, that horrible Anakin kid, 90% of all background / side actors taking extra lessons in the "Try too hard class"? Even Liam Neeson, as hyped as he is, isn't much of a good actor. His skills are limited to "look grim".
On the other hand, Sir Christopher Lee tried very hard to improve the average acting quality of the films.
Peter Jackson to Christopher Lee- Imagine the sound of a knife sinking into a man's back for this scene.
Christopher Lee- I don't have to imagine that, I remember it.
The look on his face when the Emperor tells Anakin to execute him is priceless. Betrayal, and too much honor to out his betrayer. I just wish they would have let him truly have a fencing style with his lightsabre.
Natalie Portman, that horrible Anakin kid, 90% of all background / side actors taking extra lessons in the "Try too hard class"? Even Liam Neeson, as hyped as he is, isn't much of a good actor. His skills are limited to "look grim".
I think you are confusing being bad with a simple lack of good directing and a decent script. And its almost impossible to act in a green room. It would be very tough to be even average under those circumstances.
cincydooley wrote: I also mostly like the prequels. 2&3 especially. Natalie Portman is a fantastic actor.
Aye, I have no complaints regarding Natalie Portman. Everything about Anakin in the prequels, though...
I also enjoy Into Darkness quite a bit. I recently found out hardcore nerds seem to hate that too.
I enjoy it, but then again I've never really liked watching the older Star Trek movies (Wrath of Khan is the only exception). I don't have any real problems with the two newer movies.
cincydooley wrote: I also mostly like the prequels. 2&3 especially. Natalie Portman is a fantastic actor.
I also enjoy Into Darkness quite a bit. I recently found out hardcore nerds seem to hate that too.
Yep. As a hardcore nerd, I hate those movies.
But I love Krull.
Doesn't stop me from sharing my opinions.
As for Natalie Portman, like Samual L. Jackson, she seemed to deliver a substandard performance in the prequels most likely because of Lucas's direction. Jackson once said that Lucas cared more about where the actors were standing than how they delivered their lines.
And Into Darkness could have been saved by a talented editor. A talented, merciless editor. Editing makes a huge difference to the emotional weight of a film. For example, John Carter of Mars could have been a much stronger film if an editor hadn't done his best to homogenize the feel and pace of every scene.
-Shrike- wrote: Aye, I have no complaints regarding Natalie Portman. Everything about Anakin in the prequels, though....
I think the biggest problem with Anakin was simply lack of time... The movies should have shown a good jedi who slowly slid towards darkness, but because they had so little time to do it in with everything else going on at the same time, we just got 'whiny, randomly homicidal teenager' instead.
People complained about the wooden acting fro the jedi in the prequels, but that was (for good or ill) exactly what Lucas wanted them to be. Unfortunately, that just came across onscreen as bad acting instead of in-ground restraint of emotion.
At the end of the day, though, if they're watched purely as a special-effects extravaganza with stuff blowing up and laser swords, the prequels are fun. I get why people dislike them, but I prefer to enjoy them for what they are, rather than bemoaning what they're not.
And I enjoyed the hell out of Into Darkness. Sure, it has its issues... but none of the Star Trek movies have been without those. It's space opera... not hard scifi. Primarily, it's supposed to be fun, and both of the new Trek movies delivered that in spades for me.
When I watch starwars it's always the theatrical version. Im always surprised at how loud the special editions are. A lot of noise in those films seemed to have been added.
As for the prequels I was 4 when the phantom menace came out. I loved it at the time but I always much preferred the next two. Then I re watched them a few years ago and I can see why it gets hate. I certainly won't be buying those movies. My children can just watch the series from Starwars onward.
My main enjoyment from starwars was seeing the models. When I watched them (Any TV time was spent watching them, all my pocket money went to renting them) I thought it was all computer done. But then I watched the making and saw them putting the models onto stands and doing close ups of it all etc it blew my mind. It was then I wanted to do modeling.
I will definitely buy the original movies in HD if they come out.
I think the biggest problem is they lost the main point of the story. The entire point of the Prequels is to tell Anakin's story of how he fell to the Dark Side. And they totally failed at that.
Grey Templar wrote: I think the biggest problem is they lost the main point of the story. The entire point of the Prequels is to tell Anakin's story of how he fell to the Dark Side. And they totally failed at that.
We had a few really good bits in the prequels' story that were clearly meant to be part of telling his fall, but just were never handled quite right or tied together properly. The secret romance with Padme. Slaughtering the Sand People in revenge for his mother's death. Being made to spy on Palpatine. Hearing that story from Palpatine about Darth Plaguis. Perhaps, most of all, what strikes me as the two elements that could have really bookended his decision to fall were when he killed Dooku (he realized it was wrong and not the thing a Jedi would do), and then when Mace Windu made the same decision about Palpatine (essentially confirming his growing doubts that the Jedi aren't what they're supposed to be). In the hands of a master writer and director, all of this could have built up to the tragic fight between him and Obi-Wan, that could have left us in tears at the tragedy of it all, that in falling to the dark side to try to protect the one thing he cared the most for, he ended up losing Padme.
Unfortunately, George is just a good storyteller, and not a good writer or director, and so the prequels failed to deliver.
Grey Templar wrote: I think the biggest problem is they lost the main point of the story. The entire point of the Prequels is to tell Anakin's story of how he fell to the Dark Side. And they totally failed at that.
We had a few really good bits in the prequels' story that were clearly meant to be part of telling his fall, but just were never handled quite right or tied together properly. The secret romance with Padme. Slaughtering the Sand People in revenge for his mother's death. Being made to spy on Palpatine. Hearing that story from Palpatine about Darth Plaguis. Perhaps, most of all, what strikes me as the two elements that could have really bookended his decision to fall were when he killed Dooku (he realized it was wrong and not the thing a Jedi would do), and then when Mace Windu made the same decision about Palpatine (essentially confirming his growing doubts that the Jedi aren't what they're supposed to be). In the hands of a master writer and director, all of this could have built up to the tragic fight between him and Obi-Wan, that could have left us in tears at the tragedy of it all, that in falling to the dark side to try to protect the one thing he cared the most for, he ended up losing Padme.
Unfortunately, George is just a good storyteller, and not a good writer or director, and so the prequels failed to deliver.
This. I think that the prequels could also have benefited from dropping the Phantom Menace, and jumping straight to Attack of the Clones. Use the extra space to help show Anakin just getting worn down trying to be a good Jedi throughout the Clone Wars. Then, in Sith, he gets to decide that the Jedi are flawed, and things go from there.
Grey Templar wrote: I think the biggest problem is they lost the main point of the story. The entire point of the Prequels is to tell Anakin's story of how he fell to the Dark Side. And they totally failed at that.
I wouldn't even say that. I'd say there are two things the prequel series tried to achieve; How the Galactic Republic became the Galactic Empire, and how Anakin Skywalker became Darth Vader. Now, smart money would have said these two themes should have operated as parallels to one another, with Anakain and the Republic's transformations complementing each other over the course of the films.
Except the films spent too much time explaining stupid stuff like Metachlorians (however its spelled ) and 'oh did you know C3PO was built by VADER like omg no waaaai" and on huge set piece scenes like the Bonta Ev Classic, and space battles. Not to mention all the new characters who were just shoveled into the story line. Seriously. How many characters are even named on screen in the Original Trilogy? A lot less than show up in the Prequels And while a lot of the set pieces were cool on their own, in the overall picture all the random bull gak took up too much time from actual plot work leaving us with a broken and disjointed narrative that at the very least, only lack lusterly delivered on its purpose.
Indeed, Lucas is an idea guy with lots of great ideas. The issue with idea guys is they also have lots of stupid ideas (Jar Jar *shakes fist*) and they really need people with balls around to look them in the eye and scream;
^the video Adam Sandlers friends should have showed him before he made all those crappy movies
Someone actually found a copy of the script they used while filming, apparently, and it backs up Lucas's revision. Don't quote me on that, though.
I wouldn't dream of it... I'll quote Kristian Brown instead:
For Brown, the biggest thrill was reading how an original scene featuring Harrison Ford was meant to be.
When Lucasfilm re-released the films in 1997, the special edition altered a scene where Han Solo is met by a bounty hunter.
In the original, Solo fires at the alien, killing it without warning. The 1997 version changed the scene to make Solo look as if he was acting in self-defence. A change which incensed fans.
"I'll tell you one thing, right now," Brown gleefully points out.
"Based on the script, I can tell you 100 per cent, Han shot first."
I'm kind of a purist on this issue. My hope is that after Episode 9 is finished, Disney will go back and reimagine episodes 1, 2, & 3, and we all quietly forget everything that Lucas did after Return of the Jedi. Like the bad version of 1985 that never happened, and nothing of value was lost.
That said, the original trilogy is quite old and some parts do look dated. I don't have a problem with "remastering" to fix things like colours and effects, but unfortunately a lot of the digital effects that Lucas added, look pretty terrible and superimposed now anyway. If given the choice between dated original effects that fit the style of the films, and dated 90s effects that look noticeably out of place, I'm gonna go with the originals. I think that's what really bugs fans the most. The updated digital effects had some "wow" factor in the 90s, but now they're just an eyesore. Hopefully, someone at Disney will get around to addressing that eventually, either by releasing the original theatrical versions, or remastering them again in a more faithful and coherent style. If nothing else, I hope they will restore the original ending to Return of the Jedi, without Hayden Christensen and Gungans.
Sigvatr wrote: Natalie Portman, that horrible Anakin kid, 90% of all background / side actors taking extra lessons in the "Try too hard class"? Even Liam Neeson, as hyped as he is, isn't much of a good actor. His skills are limited to "look grim".
No, seriously, they're very good actors. Go see Neeson in Schindler's List or Rob Roy and you'll realise the guy has serious talent. Similarly Portman's performance in Black Swan shows she's a-list.
Of course, those two, alongside Ewan MacGregor and a bunch of other a-list talent were all pretty wooden and terrible in the prequels, but that wasn't because any of them are actually bad actors. It's because the director matters a lot, and really bad direction can make even the best actors give poor performances.
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Crazy_Carnifex wrote: This. I think that the prequels could also have benefited from dropping the Phantom Menace, and jumping straight to Attack of the Clones. Use the extra space to help show Anakin just getting worn down trying to be a good Jedi throughout the Clone Wars. Then, in Sith, he gets to decide that the Jedi are flawed, and things go from there.
Yep, you could drop the first film, put it's handful of important parts in to the second, and then tell the events of the third film as two movies and it would work so much better.
The original series has a classic trilogy structure. The first film works as a standalone movie, it introduces the setting and the characters, has them successfully resolve the plot, but with space left open for a sequel. The second film expands the universe, and makes everything go bad. Then the third film resolves everything.
The prequel structure started out similarly. The Phantom Menace introduced the new characters and the new setting, and had them resolve the plot, but then said that we shouldn't be happy because the good guys were just pawns in the villain's scheme. Attack of the Clones then did the exact same thing, same characters, same setting, and a variation on the same plot, and once again the good guys solved it but we shouldn't be happy because it was just part of the villain's scheme. Then the third film made was about everything going bad as the villain's scheme was finally made overt, with only the last few minutes showing the good guys doing what they can to minimise their defeat.
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LordofHats wrote: I wouldn't even say that. I'd say there are two things the prequel series tried to achieve; How the Galactic Republic became the Galactic Empire, and how Anakin Skywalker became Darth Vader. Now, smart money would have said these two themes should have operated as parallels to one another, with Anakain and the Republic's transformations complementing each other over the course of the films.
Yep, and that was definitely the intent. And with a decent structure and a lot more discipline in cutting out the bad ideas, it would have worked just fine. I mean, it didn't have to be incredible, it's just pulp story telling. The fun is in the characters, the setting and the action.
Indeed, Lucas is an idea guy with lots of great ideas. The issue with idea guys is they also have lots of stupid ideas (Jar Jar *shakes fist*) and they really need people with balls around to look them in the eye and scream
Yeah, the original trilogy was Lucas' baby, but he had a lot of input from wise hands to hammer the thing in to final product.
I agree with sebster on the actors talents, minus that Christenson guy, he's just bad. But I saw an out take with McGregor and Lukas where he was fighting general Grievous, all they are standing in is a green room, Ewen and Lukas are talking about what he's supposed to be doing and Lukas says something like " this guy is a huge scary robot OK." He motions with his hands his big the robot is "and uhhhh... He just scary" and walks back to the camera.
I mean cmon! How is an actor supposed to get into what they are doing, the emotions and character that they need, from that? And watching the fighting scene between the two shows just that. Ewen just kind of shimmies when.Grievous opens up his 4 light saber wielding arms of death. Why? Because he's fighting a big scary robot. Not an 8 foot tall robot with 4 arms spinning light sabers from Jedi he killed, in a propeller of death towards you. He's killed Jedi ewen, several of them, this huge scary robot wants to kill you big time, in the worst ways imaginable. He's stronger than you, and has a pride that only a general that has survived death many times over can have, and he wants your light saber. Huge! Scary! Fething robot! With light saber propeller of death!!!!
Gitzbitah wrote: Peter Jackson to Christopher Lee- Imagine the sound of a knife sinking into a man's back for this scene.
Christopher Lee- I don't have to imagine that, I remember it.
Is that a true quote? If so wow I recently heard about his war record but I had not heard that............
I believe the actual quote goes something like:
"Now, imagine the sound of a knife sinking into a man's back."
"I don't have to imagine what that sounds like."
As far as the acting talent goes? Yeah, just about everyone involved in the prequel trilogy has great acting talent... the problem is, Lucas is a terrible director of people. Brilliant technical director... terrible at people.
KingCracker wrote: I agree with sebster on the actors talents, minus that Christenson guy, he's just bad. But I saw an out take with McGregor and Lukas where he was fighting general Grievous, all they are standing in is a green room, Ewen and Lukas are talking about what he's supposed to be doing and Lukas says something like " this guy is a huge scary robot OK." He motions with his hands his big the robot is "and uhhhh... He just scary" and walks back to the camera.
Exactly. It's interesting to watch the making of better green screen CGI fests, and the work they go to to give the actor some feeling for how the CGI will look. So they'll dress up some extra in a prop suit, or something similar, to give the actor visual cues for where he should be looking, and also to give him something to work with, the prop suit might not look exactly like a four armed death robot in the final cut, but at least the actor will have a sense of the scale of his enemy.
Lucas didn't do that, because he'd been out of the game a very long time, and failed to bring on board people who could give him that kind of instruction.
KingCracker wrote: I agree with sebster on the actors talents, minus that Christenson guy, he's just bad. But I saw an out take with McGregor and Lukas where he was fighting general Grievous, all they are standing in is a green room, Ewen and Lukas are talking about what he's supposed to be doing and Lukas says something like " this guy is a huge scary robot OK." He motions with his hands his big the robot is "and uhhhh... He just scary" and walks back to the camera.
Exactly. It's interesting to watch the making of better green screen CGI fests, and the work they go to to give the actor some feeling for how the CGI will look. So they'll dress up some extra in a prop suit, or something similar, to give the actor visual cues for where he should be looking, and also to give him something to work with, the prop suit might not look exactly like a four armed death robot in the final cut, but at least the actor will have a sense of the scale of his enemy.
Lucas didn't do that, because he'd been out of the game a very long time, and failed to bring on board people who could give him that kind of instruction.
Yeah if I remember right, Grievous was literally a tennis ball on a string of something like that. It's been awhile since I saw that clip
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Psienesis wrote: At that point, who in Hollywood could Lucas have hired that would dare criticize him? Rumor has it that he doesn't take "no" very well.
And that just reinforces how bad he is at this game. Think tanks will out perform an offer confident A hole any day of the week. Hence why the original movie was and is so good
Smacks wrote: I'm kind of a purist on this issue. My hope is that after Episode 9 is finished, Disney will go back and reimagine episodes 1, 2, & 3, and we all quietly forget everything that Lucas did after Return of the Jedi. Like the bad version of 1985 that never happened, and nothing of value was lost.
There's "re imagining" going on (couldn't find the thread for episode VII)
Maybe they just need him to record "Nooooo" in his voice?
It could be something similar to Anakin's appearance to Leia in, what was it, Truce at Bakura?
Psienesis wrote: At that point, who in Hollywood could Lucas have hired that would dare criticize him? Rumor has it that he doesn't take "no" very well.
It was quite a learning experience for me to read one of the early scripts for Star Wars. It was probably worse than any of the prequel scripts.
But what followed those early drafts was a long process of Lucas writing and re-writing, cutting away lots of ideas, and refining the script until it finally worked. And all that time Lucas was getting advice and direct intervention from a series of Hollywood greats. There's a story about Lucas and Francis Ford Coppola going away for a week, and Coppola just hammering the basics of film making in to Lucas over and over again.
That didn't happen with the prequels, and it shows.
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KingCracker wrote: Yeah if I remember right, Grievous was literally a tennis ball on a string of something like that. It's been awhile since I saw that clip
I don't know if it was the Grevious shot but I did see some stuff that was similar, with someone acting against a tennis ball.
The one that stood out for me was a wide shot from the first film, as the heroes advance across the palace smashing droids. I remember thinking how gakky that shot looked when I saw it at the movies. Then in the DVD release they showed the the pre-effects shot and it was just the cast standing on a big green stage. They just added the CGI stuff after. Obi-Wan's little pirouette looked really awkward for a good reason.
I think there was also speculation that Vader would be in the Rogue One movie and that it wasn't confirmed exactly which movie he was going to be in. It would make sense for him to show up in the movie dealing with the Death Star though.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: I'd be lying if I said I hadn't enjoyed the star wars films/games over the years, but hasn't this cow been milked enough over the years?
Yes...and no. On the film side, we haven't had a good one in 35 years.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: I'd be lying if I said I hadn't enjoyed the star wars films/games over the years, but hasn't this cow been milked enough over the years?
Yes...and no. On the film side, we haven't had a good one in 35 years.
35 years.
As I've said before, they'll be waiting another 35 years, because I think an awful lot of people will be disappointed with these new films...
Just thinking about Phantom menace and the hype leading up to it, brings me out in a cold sweat...
Paradigm wrote: Yeah, I'd like to see Vader in R1. No idea what Christansen would have to do with that, though, it's James Earl Jones or no one for Vader's voice!
He'd just be in the suit, like he was for the very end of RotS. Jones will always do Darth Vader.
Paradigm wrote: Yeah, I'd like to see Vader in R1. No idea what Christansen would have to do with that, though, it's James Earl Jones or no one for Vader's voice!
He'd just be in the suit, like he was for the very end of RotS. Jones will always do Darth Vader.
I guess if they really wanted to they could include some shots with the helmet removed (like the scene where he is talking to an officer and opening his "bubble" as the helmet was lowered) to show Christansen, but I think that would feel a bit forced to be honest.
Paradigm wrote: Yeah, I'd like to see Vader in R1. No idea what Christansen would have to do with that, though, it's James Earl Jones or no one for Vader's voice!
He'd just be in the suit, like he was for the very end of RotS. Jones will always do Darth Vader.
I guess if they really wanted to they could include some shots with the helmet removed (like the scene where he is talking to an officer and opening his "bubble" as the helmet was lowered) to show Christansen, but I think that would feel a bit forced to be honest.
Exactly what I was thinking. There's not a great deal that would be added having him in the suit over anyone else, and really, I don't think we need to see the face/head. Everyone knows now that Anakin is Vader, there's no need to hammer that home any further.
On another note, yeah, a soundtrack release would be great!
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: I'd be lying if I said I hadn't enjoyed the star wars films/games over the years, but hasn't this cow been milked enough over the years?
Yes...and no. On the film side, we haven't had a good one in 35 years.
35 years.
As I've said before, they'll be waiting another 35 years, because I think an awful lot of people will be disappointed with these new films...
Just thinking about Phantom menace and the hype leading up to it, brings me out in a cold sweat...
That's one really big benefit of the prequels and special editions. The bar is much, much lower. And JJ Abrams has shown a talent for telling his own stories within an existing universe. I would have been furious if he was remaking the Star Wars original trilogy, because he would have thrown that sucker Into Darkness, but as long as you don't think of Cumberbach as Khan, it works. The idea of a frozen superweapon designing another superweapon to secretly use against the federation.... frankly sounds really Star Wars. Death Stars everywhere- and when they weren't, we had Super Star Destroyers. As long as he delivers something that is as much fun as his Star Trek films, and half as melodramtic as his trailers, it will be a very satisfying addition to the films.
I suppose it's safe to say that I have a new hope.
