Guys, read this petition. It makes many good points and is worth signing. Necron models have become so ornamental that they are no longer the relentless killing machines they once were.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/bring-back-the-old-necrons

this is actually so true

Matt Ward signed it? Ugh OK..

I like the current fluff, it works.
As for models, yeah they can use some work, but the older models were still ugly as hell. But I agree, I want to be able to use monoliths and such with better effectiveness instead
of the usual Legion + Harvest + Cult take on a list. Newer wraiths look a lot better, and so do spiders, but the older destroyers looked pretty neat.

you mean, bring back the faceless, emotionless unstoppable metal skeletons who are wiping life out of the 'verse one planet at a time?


Why would GW do that? That would be like... listening to popular demand or something. In that respect, GW is JUST like the Conservative party in the UK - they just don't care

You're wrong about that, they care about people that give them money

 Frozocrone wrote:
You're wrong about that, they care about people that give them money

Oh God, the parallel with the Conservatives becomes ever clearer... you are of course right.

Ah yes, let us make them metal Tyranids again and have no unique characters.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Ah yes, let us make them metal Tyranids again and have no unique characters.

Well, they did that with the Dark Eldar and the Orks by removing independent characters and fluff.... so why not? Seems to be the thing to do these days

Yeah but MY independent characters have models!

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Yeah but MY independent characters have models!

Not for long... muahahaha (evil laugh)

you mean, bring back the faceless, emotionless unstoppable metal skeletons who are wiping life out of the 'verse one planet at a time?

this is what was so awesome about the necrons in 3rd edition - the mystery - GW killed all that in 5th and 7th

 applepieguy wrote:

you mean, bring back the faceless, emotionless unstoppable metal skeletons who are wiping life out of the 'verse one planet at a time?

this is what was so awesome about the necrons in 3rd edition - the mystery - GW killed all that in 5th and 7th

In the case of the 'Crons I agree. They were pretty bad-ass in the Dawn of War games before this whole Blood Angels bromance and emotional journey through space they currently seem to have

Oldcrons were boring. They were mindless killing robots and that was just that. There was nothing more to them. No depth. Just mindless killing robots. Even the Tyranids, who are mindless killing bugs, have more depth.
Besides, I happen to like the new Necron models. Tomb Kings in space FTW.

I disagree, the old necrons had more of a mysterious atmosphere to them, whereas some of the 'new' models are all glammed up and covered in unnecessary details

While the playstyle has changed with some good changes, I feel this image sums up the new look HQs

^^ sums it up really

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
but the older models were still ugly as hell.

I'm going to have to disagree there

Immortals are the same.
Warriors are the same.
Scarabs are the same.
Destroyers are the same

Wraiths and Spyders look better now, I'll give you that.

Flayed ones look worse now. They look ridiculous

Overlords would be fine if it weren't for that stupid turkey crest

Surely the fact that a pink Necron will be run over is a decent reason to sign, I'm sure my mate can video it.

I signed it !

Ehhhh,,, as much as I LOVED the old lore, I can see the other side's point of view.

I think a sort of compromise would be best.

Model-wise I do like a lot of the older sculpts (particularly Flayed Ones) but the new Canoptek stuff is better, while most of the range hasn't changed at all. I don't mind the characters having "bling" because to me they are a space-faring analogy to Egyptians anyway, right down to having Obelisks, pyramid-shaped Monoliths, ankh-like iconography, war-crowns, lots of light-based technology, scarabs, mummies (Flayed Ones), etc.

As for fluff, I don't think the new lore is great but I definitely think it is more interesting than the old background. Old was essentially "mysterious, ancient race is slowly awakening and exterminating all life" which is about as stereotypical sci-fi as it gets, and was aping off of Tyranids far too much. New actually has justification for their story arc - they want to reclaim their lost kingdoms and find a species to transfer their consciousness' to so as to rejoin the living - and adds distinct personalities to the Necrons.

I don't mind the whole "harbingers of destruction" arc but it has been done to death and is, again, a repeat of what Tyranids are. Mind, I really liked how terrifying the Necrons used to be and they most definitely lack that edge now. However, trading that edge for actual characterization and tangible motivations....new wins for me. New also gets points for being unique in the setting rather than just Tyranids 2.0 with robots. I don't think either old or new Necron fluff is particularly good but I certainly don't want them to dumb the race down again.

Yes, Because the old necrons had no decorations or anything. Just look at this second edition (I think it is..?) Necron Lord! Compleately bare and plain! Oh wait..
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/225100.page#487119

I actually vaguely remembered that model while I was typing but didn't think to bring it up lol. The weird thing is that early Necrons were definitely "Tomb Kings in space" then they changed to the "lifeless destroyers" in 3rd Edition as far as visual design is concerned, then back to their roots with 5th Edition onwards. Interesting stuff!

the 3rd edition fluff was definitely the best IMO, although they do play better now. That lord looks terrible (for me of course)

Merellin wrote:
Yes, Because the old necrons had no decorations or anything. Just look at this second edition (I think it is..?) Necron Lord! Compleately bare and plain! Oh wait..
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/225100.page#487119

And that model is terrible. 3rd ed lord was best lord.
I do like how in 2nd ed Necrons do not take leadership tests. That actually makes sense.
The 25% phase out rule looks better than 3rd as well, as it was on a unit by unit basis, not the whole army.

Nah, still prefer the new fluff.

 godardc wrote:
I signed it !

Thanks! The old Necrons definitely had mystery to them that is no longer present. The bling had ruined that relentless aura they had.
This is not a petition trying to rid the Necron army of units. It is solely for bringing back the sculpts that weren't coated in think layers of "showbiz"

From the petition:

Now Necron players have to wade through the endless pages of torturous new Necrons and decide on which piece of rubbish they will have to buy next

So...you want GW to change their basic business practice they employ with everything they touch? What does this have to do with Necrons?

Nah. Newcrons are more interesting than oldcrons.

They may have more personality, but I think the mythos around the C'Tans was more interesting, than now just being shards that are used when the need arises.

Also the models are terrible since all the characters are finecrap and staffs with finecast always wapr/break/ look terrible.

TruCrons are not getting back. Retconning the changes would be GW admitting a mistake and that will never, ever happen. Before that happens, hell will freeze over. Or worse, GW reduces their prices.

Then again, what's stopping you from just playing the true fluff? I pla 5th anyway but even when I still played 6th, I just took the true fluff and the most current set of rules, reformated it a bit to look genuine and then printed it to one file having my own codex that both combined the true fluff and the latest set of rules. Requires some work, fosho, but a real TruCron player is willing to walk the extra mile.

We can sit back and let these otherwise awesome models get all "blinged" up, or you can sign the petition (not set up by me) and see how many people actually preferred the old styles.

Also, updated petition with new and clearer details;
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/bring-back-the-old-necrons





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sigvatr wrote:
TruCrons are not getting back.
Then again, what's stopping you from just playing the true fluff? I pla 5th anyway but even when I still played 6th, I just took the true fluff and the most current set of rules, reformated it a bit to look genuine and then printed it to one file having my own codex that both combined the true fluff and the latest set of rules. Requires some work, fosho, but a real TruCron player is willing to walk the extra mile.

Should Necron players have to walk that extra mile? You never know what could happen, and this petition is the start of something. The petition has also been updated, as its goal was unclear.
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/bring-back-the-old-necrons


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lego_las181 wrote:
these otherwise awesome models get all "blinged" up

I see what this guy means, some of the newer models like the named lords are way too over detailed

... there is nothing to the New-Crons that removes the ability to play them like Old-Crons. That is entirely what Destroyer Lords are for.

Count me as a vote for senile robot space pirate badasses.

 Psienesis wrote:
... there is nothing to the New-Crons that removes the ability to play them like Old-Crons. That is entirely what Destroyer Lords are for.

he is not saying there is, but it is harder to play necrons in the old phalanx style now

necronlad42 wrote:

Lego_las181 wrote:
these otherwise awesome models get all "blinged" up

I see what this guy means, some of the newer models like the named lords are way too over detailed

You apparently do not remember Assholetep.

There was a petition to GW last year with over 10k worth of signatures and nothing happened out of it. I wish you luck

Lego_las181 wrote:


You sir, know what you're talking about

Damn right I do, if there's one thing I do, then it's shoving TruCron down people's faces. A lot.

Most people just didn't understand Necrons and only consider them being terminators in space, not aware of or not paying enough attention to the tragic backstory that led to the Necrontyr's dark fate. Driven into madness by fate, the Necrontyr saw no other choice but to trust the strongest corporeal beings in the entire 40k universe, the C'tan. At the end - I cannot blame them. The Necrontyr's lives were terrible at best. Living until your mid 20s, then dying, growing up in a world that consisted of nothing but tombs? And then, one day, they received the chance to turn it all around. It was the most sound decision at that point and while effectively, the Necrontyr race was extincted and all that remains are the soulless automatons nowadays called "Necrons". The entire race sacrificed itself just to get a chance to eradicate their enemies from the face of the universe and it's /that/ hate that still drives them...apart of their evil masters, the C'tan. The latter are the strongest corporeal being in 40k, with the Chaos Gods being their corpo...faux? counterparts. The mere presence (!) of The Outsider let an entire (!!) Swarm Fleet turn around in fear (!!!), The Void Dragon almost killed the Emperor and now corrupts mankind from the inside and The Nightbringer influenced the entire human race while ultimatively being the last thing the universe will see. The C'tan are such interesting beings and it's a shame that GW doesn't have any good writers left who would be willing to elaborate on that rich background.

Then again, why bother if if you can have more PEWPEWRATATATATATA FOR ZE EMPRAAAAHH WE ARE ZE SPACE MAHREEEENS stories?

I too prefer the old fluff. The new necrons really lack much of a purpose in the 40k universe.

Eldar are the ancient alien race who once ruled the stars with mighty technology
Tyranids are the inevitable, unstoppable doom coming to everything
Chaos are the evil, and opponent to the imperium who reside in te darkness of the universe

Why do we need necrons to ape all of these traits to only make a far less interesting and far less threatening enemy.

The best way to go in my opinion is go back to some of the old fluff, but give them a sort of lovecraftian feel and influences.

necronlad42 wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
... there is nothing to the New-Crons that removes the ability to play them like Old-Crons. That is entirely what Destroyer Lords are for.

he is not saying there is, but it is harder to play necrons in the old phalanx style now

It's a lot easier actually. If 7th is similar to 6th, there was that super formation with 100+ (200+?) Necrons granting a 4+ (iirc) WBB and with all upgrades considered, making them a nigh-unstoppable force. Unless 7th (or was it even 6th?) started with the HEY LET'S GIVE EVERYONE THE D bullpoo to cater to the kids. But then again, why would anyone even consider playing 7th?

Clockwork Iron wrote:
I too prefer the old fluff. The new necrons really lack much of a purpose in the 40k universe.

Eldar are the ancient alien race who once ruled the stars with mighty technology
Tyranids are the inevitable, unstoppable doom coming to everything
Chaos are the evil, and opponent to the imperium who reside in te darkness of the universe

Why do we need necrons to ape all of these traits to only make a far less interesting and far less threatening enemy.

The best way to go in my opinion is go back to some of the old fluff, but give them a sort of lovecraftian feel and influences.

...because people like SPACE MAHREEEENZ and what's better than SPACE MAHREEENZ? MOAR SPACE MAHREEENZ that look like robots!

Not really, no.
The newcrons have a wider diversity than the oldcrons. Indeed, aspects of the oldcrons still exist as whole dynasties. You want your mindless robots? Fine, go play Empire of the Severed/Sakoni Emperor army. You want Red Harvests? Well they still exist, it's just that they aren't about feeding the C'Tan anymore.

The only thing the new codex really removed (beside the whole 'unknown horror vibe, but that mainly came from the lack of actual fluff about the Necrons. Seriously what fluff we had was mostly 'these metal robots came from nowhere and killed some people'... dun dun dun!) is the all-powerful C'Tan controlling everything. Even then, GWs whole thing as of late has been 'Forge the Narrative'. So go out and do it! Who's to say your Necrons don't believe that the C'Tan are true Gods that should be worshiped.

Going back to oldcrons after the variety the newcrons gave us without taking anywhere near as much away as most people realise would be a regression.

Bring back oldcrons, and old C'TAN mhu ha ha ha fear my D hell flamers and the trans D slide.

But seriously I love their new options but I would like it even more if they got a bit of their aliennes back. They now just seem to bee thin marines that don't go down and all have discount grav weapons instead of mechanical horrors that rise from their graves

What I REALLY want...

Pariahs. I want my pariahs back.

Edit: And Cthulu-like horror from the C'tan.

Edit 2: And Oldcron Flayed Ones fluff

Edit 3: Okay, dammit, I recant my previous post to an extent. My heart truly desires the return of the oldcrons. BUUUUTTTT... my head knows that a mix of both new and old would be best... or, you know, having someone who's at least somewhat competent write the fluff.

Screw mystery, Newcrons ftw. I love that Necron's can actually have novels written about them now. The only way to do that is to give them personality and dialogue in the 40k universe.
There's only so long Necron's would have been able to stay dull and 'mysterious' before they got overshadowed by the interesting storylines of the other races.

The models, even if they are over-detailed, look much better than the old models by a long shot. I do 1+ removing Anrakyr's dress though.

If you don't like the fancy bling, don't build your characters with it. I didn't.

I enjoyed the old Necrons, but the new ones have started to grow on me. Back in the day the major complaint about Necrons was their lack of diversity. I would like it if Games Workshop could come to a compromise on the matter. Keep the range diversity while getting back some of the eldritch horror.

The "new" Necrons may have more "personality"...but that's not really what they're supposed to have. What made them interesting was being the C'thulu-esque unknowable tide of termi-zombies. The "Tomb Kings in Spaaaaaaaace" reboot was a really lame, and poorly executed, cop-out, they're a thin copy-paste job of a Fantasy army, and they're just not that interesting. They've become simply far too...human.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Not really, no.
The newcrons have a wider diversity than the oldcrons. Indeed, aspects of the oldcrons still exist as whole dynasties. You want your mindless robots? Fine, go play Empire of the Severed/Sakoni Emperor army. You want Red Harvests? Well they still exist, it's just that they aren't about feeding the C'Tan anymore.

Going back to oldcrons after the variety the newcrons gave us without taking anywhere near as much away as most people realise would be a regression.

Newcrons have fantastic units and are incredibly diverse yes, but the models for these units are the issue. They have too much bling on them, which takes away from the awesome "unstoppable robots" feel to the army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Nightwolf829 wrote:
I enjoyed the old Necrons, but the new ones have started to grow on me. Back in the day the major complaint about Necrons was their lack of diversity. I would like it if Games Workshop could come to a compromise on the matter. Keep the range diversity while getting back some of the eldritch horror.

As I've said before, the new units are actually really nice but the models need to be toned done hugely. The designers are just sitting there like; "Needs more orbs..."


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 daBIGboss wrote:
I do 1+ removing Anrakyr's dress though.

I know, the rest of him is amazing!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 King Pariah wrote:

Okay, dammit, I recant my previous post to an extent. My heart truly desires the return of the oldcrons. BUUUUTTTT... my head knows that a mix of both new and old would be best... or, you know, having someone who's at least somewhat competent write the fluff.

Old style models for the new units is the petitions goal. And yeah, Blood Angel buddies...

Hey guys, I quickly made this poll to find out how many prefer the new or old fluff
http://goo.gl/6MiUOT




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 King Pariah wrote:
What I REALLY want...

Pariahs. I want my pariahs back.

ikr! Pariahs were cool I have no idea why they got rid of them.

The reason they are not brought back is it would punish the psyker armies that are ever prevalent now-a-days. Gotta save that for the expensive assassin models.

oz of the north wrote:
The reason they are not brought back is it would punish the psyker armies that are ever prevalent now-a-days. Gotta save that for the expensive assassin models.

Yes, because Pariahs were always a cheap unit...

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Yes, because Pariahs were always a cheap unit...

...and so useful!

warscythes used to be so cool - no saves of any kind allowed if I remember right

Warcythes ignored all Armour and Invulnerable saves, yeah. Pariah ones also included a Gauss Blaster, although Lord ones did not, sadly.

I had great fun with a unit of Pariahs once - against Grey Knights. "You're all Psykers, you say..? With Force Weapons..? I'm only I2, you know..."

I've played Necrons since third and the new fluff is just better. Plus there is still nothing that prevents you from playing them like an eldrict horror that oldcron players like.

Bah, youngling. I've been playing Necrons since second edition, and I recognise that the new fluff and the old fluff aren't that different, the time line has just moved on - like people wanted!

 Furyou Miko wrote:
I've been playing Necrons since second edition, and I recognise that the new fluff and the old fluff aren't that different, the time line has just moved on - like people wanted!

A lot of people think otherwise
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/436499.page

It's very clear that NewCron fluff isn't TruCron fluff "evolved". It's vastly different.

Seriously, I'd love to see how SPACE MAHREEEENZ players would react if GW suddenly said that The Emperor was all a lie and instead of him being one real entity, it was a bunch of Psykers pretending to be him. It's an evolution, guys!

 Sigvatr wrote:
It's very clear that NewCron fluff isn't TruCron fluff "evolved". It's vastly different.

Thank you, the voice of reason in the Grim Darkness of the Far Future. Mind answering this?

http://goo.gl/6MiUOT

Ya the newcrons killed necrons. I was about to start them the read the fluff.

King Po woke up and wanted a new body and was like hey guys everyone in the new advanced tech the row boat ship and march to war...... Awesom.

New tech the row boat, http://www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/Necron-Ghost-Ark
The spider http://www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/Necron-Triarch-Stalker
The holely gak we are tipping and have a giant ball in my face. http://www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/Necron-Tomb-Blades

Nothing quite like long dead robots taking a emo fit because they fell asleep for a couple million years to find out they have pests. Then get upset with other emo robots......

TruCrons had a very unique style of writing lore about them as there weren't any actual stories written /by/ them, the Necrons are soulless automatons and the C'tan don't quite write books in their free time. The only way of actually getting to know something about Necrons was by reading indirect reports, mostly of survivors if there were any or by visions of The Eldar, the Necron's arch enemy, who already know that The Nightbringer will mean doom for all living beings. There's just so much potential for good writers out there...but it's GW we're talking about here and the only thing they can produce is SPACE MAHREEEENZ "literature".

 Sigvatr wrote:
TruCrons had a very unique style of writing lore about them as there weren't any actual stories written /by/ them, the Necrons are soulless automatons and the C'tan don't quite write books in their free time. The only way of actually getting to know something about Necrons was by reading indirect reports, mostly of survivors if there were any or by visions of The Eldar, the Necron's arch enemy, who already know that The Nightbringer will mean doom for all living beings. There's just so much potential for good writers out there...but it's GW we're talking about here and the only thing they can produce is SPACE MAHREEEENZ "literature".

I love the Heresy series, and the Cain novels are great, but I see your point. The account of a lone survivor on a Necron Tomb world would be a fantastic story. Instead, people want Necron lords to show emotion and become cross-dressers

 Sigvatr wrote:
TruCrons had a very unique style of writing lore about them as there weren't any actual stories written /by/ them, the Necrons are soulless automatons and the C'tan don't quite write books in their free time. The only way of actually getting to know something about Necrons was by reading indirect reports, mostly of survivors if there were any or by visions of The Eldar, the Necron's arch enemy, who already know that The Nightbringer will mean doom for all living beings. There's just so much potential for good writers out there...but it's GW we're talking about here and the only thing they can produce is SPACE MAHREEEENZ "literature".

Yeah, there were some good stories in the 3rd ed book, and none in the 5th ed book.
That story about the techpriest tearing out his implants is still freaky.

Lego_las181 wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
I've been playing Necrons since second edition, and I recognise that the new fluff and the old fluff aren't that different, the time line has just moved on - like people wanted!

A lot of people think otherwise
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/436499.page

If you went around asking everyone in China how long the Emperor's nose was, and took the average of all the responses - that doesn't mean you know how long the Emperor's nose was.

Sigvatr wrote:It's very clear that NewCron fluff isn't TruCron fluff "evolved". It's vastly different.

OK. name one explicit different apart from the shattering of the C'tan that outright disproves the older fluff, and hasn't been retconned back (Looking at Inertialess Drives there).

Isn't their an IA book that has Necrons that act exactly like the old ones.

I sorta miss the mystery and pure unknowability of the old ones.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Isn't their an IA book that has Necrons that act exactly like the old ones.

Do you know which one it is? I would love to look into that

HoundsofDemos wrote:

I sorta miss the mystery and pure unknowability of the old ones.

My thoughts exactly

IA12, the Fall of Orpheus has the Maynarkh dynasty who are similar to 3rd ed Crons from what I've heard.

I prefer the current lore to the old lore. The new lore doesn't actually retcon much so if you prefer the old stuff there's nothing stopping you having your Necrons exactly how they used to be.

The Maynarkh aren't really like the oldcrons at all.

They've all got the Flayer Virus.

Ah, I've not read it myself. I've just heard it said that the Crons in IA12 are like the old Necrons.

 ImAGeek wrote:
IA12, the Fall of Orpheus has the Maynarkh dynasty who are similar to 3rd ed Crons from what I've heard.

Thanks, ill have to check that out - do you know how recent that book is?

necronlad42 wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:
IA12, the Fall of Orpheus has the Maynarkh dynasty who are similar to 3rd ed Crons from what I've heard.

Thanks, ill have to check that out - do you know how recent that book is?

2012/2013 ish. Apparantly they aren't much like the Oldcrons, although I've not read it. I've heard the story is very good though and it sounds really cool. I just haven't got round to getting it at all.

necronlad42 wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:
IA12, the Fall of Orpheus has the Maynarkh dynasty who are similar to 3rd ed Crons from what I've heard.

Thanks, ill have to check that out - do you know how recent that book is?

According to Wikipedia it came out in 2013.

 Ghaz wrote:
According to Wikipedia it came out in 2013.

 ImAGeek wrote:

2012/2013 ish. Apparantly they aren't much like the Oldcrons, although I've not read it. I've heard the story is very good though and it sounds really cool. I just haven't got round to getting it at all.

Thanks guys, ill be sure to check it out anyways


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lego_las181 wrote:
Necron models have become so ornamental that they are no longer the relentless killing machines they once were.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/bring-back-the-old-necrons

I definitely agree, especially the lords, IMO all this stuff is extra unnecessary detail that detracts from the menacing feel necron models used to have.
Think about it - imagine you are cornered by a massive tough guy in a street, and then a different day the same thing happens but he is covered in makeup and wearing a stupid hat - when would you feel more threatened?

 Furyou Miko wrote:

Lego_las181 wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
I've been playing Necrons since second edition, and I recognise that the new fluff and the old fluff aren't that different, the time line has just moved on - like people wanted!

A lot of people think otherwise
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/436499.page

If you went around asking everyone in China how long the Emperor's nose was, and took the average of all the responses - that doesn't mean you know how long the Emperor's nose was.

Sigvatr wrote:It's very clear that NewCron fluff isn't TruCron fluff "evolved". It's vastly different.

OK. name one explicit different apart from the shattering of the C'tan that outright disproves the older fluff, and hasn't been retconned back (Looking at Inertialess Drives there).

While they both still wear the skin/hides of their prey, Flayed Ones now are very different in fluff from the Flayed Ones of the past (not to mention the models were WAY smexier, I wear glasses but if you think the current flayed ones look better than the old, you have worse eyes than me and need to get your eyes checked asap). There is practically no way current Flayed Ones would pull the nightmarish stunts from Ben Counter's Hellforged (hate on Ben Counter all you want, his depiction of Oldcrons was fairly well done).

Wraiths are vastly different, changing from Necrontyr criminals having their minds programmed into a vicious, efficient murder machines of nightmares to merely multipurpose machines that are still vicious, efficient murder machines but lost most of the nightmarish aspect (unless you are scared of bugs)

Nothing to indicate that the C'tan and/or Necrons are behind the Pariah Gene anymore, and nothing substantial fluffwise to even support that the Pariah Gene is C'tan and/or Necron in origin

C'tan being shattered changes a great many of their fates of being cannibalized or black hole'd out of existence. (And raises the question of If the Outsider has been shattered, wtf is in the Dyson Sphere (actually a Dyson Shell but semantics), why are the Nids detouring around it, and what did Adept Corteswain see inside the Dyson sphere to cause him to rip his implants out? Also, what about the Eldar prophecy regarding the Outsider's return?) I know you said aside from the C'tan being shattered but I am using this point to show that the lore changes had effects upon the lores of other races.

...And that's all that I can think of at the moment off the top of my head.

I say keep the new necron models, but bring back the old fluff. Or dont t keep the models but makee a larger section than the original 5 or 6

123ply wrote:
I say keep the new necron models EXCEPT THE FLAYED ONES but bring back the old fluff. Or dont t keep the models but makee a larger section than the original 5 or 6

Fixed that for ya

I will completely agree the new Flayed One models are garbage. They need a complete makeover.

oz of the north wrote:
They may have more personality, but I think the mythos around the C'Tans was more interesting, than now just being shards that are used when the need arises.

On the contrary, I find the idea of them rising up and shattering their own gods to be quite interesting.

 King Pariah wrote:

While they both still wear the skin/hides of their prey, Flayed Ones now are very different in fluff from the Flayed Ones of the past (not to mention the models were WAY smexier, I wear glasses but if you think the current flayed ones look better than the old, you have worse eyes than me and need to get your eyes checked asap). There is practically no way current Flayed Ones would pull the nightmarish stunts from Ben Counter's Hellforged (hate on Ben Counter all you want, his depiction of Oldcrons was fairly well done).

What, you don't like the FO prancing round in their pretty ribbons?

More seriously, we weren't talking about the models - fluff wise, Flayed Ones just have more detail, and none of it contradicts what the original codex said, which was just that they were mad and driven to try and reclaim their flesh of old by wearing the skins of their victims. Just because we know why they're mad now, and the new models suck, doesn't mean that the old fluff has been contradicted. Sorry.

Wraiths are vastly different, changing from Necrontyr criminals having their minds programmed into a vicious, efficient murder machines of nightmares to merely multipurpose machines that are still vicious, efficient murder machines but lost most of the nightmarish aspect (unless you are scared of bugs)

OK, I'd forgotten about Wraiths - but where in the old fluff did it state that Wraiths were Necron Criminals? That's extra fluff you've pulled from somewhere, probably the internet or your own head. Old wraiths were just particularly horrifying monsters that phased in and out of reality and fought with lots of sharp things. Again, the model changed and we have more details - but the only thing that directly contradicts the old fluff is that Wraiths no longer WBB. Wraiths are still nightmarish monsters that come through the walls.

In fact, even the old Wraiths matched with the current fluff in several sources - the Cain novels, for example, feature them as the first guardians to awake in several tombs, which only makes sense if they're guardian robots (or at least multi-purpose janitor-bots with a high priority defence protocol), because waking actual Necrons up takes longer.

Nothing to indicate that the C'tan and/or Necrons are behind the Pariah Gene anymore, and nothing substantial fluffwise to even support that the Pariah Gene is C'tan and/or Necron in origin

Nothing to deny it though, either, which means that the old sources are still intact and viable. Until a source outright states that the Pariah gene is not Necron in origin, there's no reason to assume that detail has been retconned out.

C'tan being shattered changes a great many of their fates of being cannibalized or black hole'd out of existence. (And raises the question of If the Outsider has been shattered, wtf is in the Dyson Sphere (actually a Dyson Shell but semantics), why are the Nids detouring around it, and what did Adept Corteswain see inside the Dyson sphere to cause him to rip his implants out? Also, what about the Eldar prophecy regarding the Outsider's return?) I know you said aside from the C'tan being shattered but I am using this point to show that the lore changes had effects upon the lores of other races.

Just because the majority of the C'tan are shattered doesn't mean they all are. Flayer'tan wasn't shattered - it's entirely possible that the Outsider is similarly still sitting pretty in his Dyson Sphere.

Oh, and before you start asking for 'burden of proof' regarding my claims? Do you like complaining so much that you want none of my counterpoints to be true? Because there's no proof I'm wrong, either.

...And that's all that I can think of at the moment off the top of my head.

Please, sir, can I have some more?

Wasn't the Flayer god the one that got destroyed, and in his death throes cursed the Necron race with the Flayer virus?

GW released in a white dwarf shortly after ward's codex dropped a statement which made abundantly clear that all C'tan were shattered. The exception was the Flayed C'tan being the only one that was shattered so hard that he was ethereal dust in the wind.

90% certain the criminal statement about Wraiths was from the codex or some old literature BL doesn't print anymore.

The Flayer Virus does contradict the old flayed ones. They're not trying to reclaim old flesh anymore, they're trying to appease a hunger that doesn't exist anywhere but in the 0's and 1's that make up the programming that contains what little remains of their conscious. And lets not forget that after they've had their "hunts" for flesh, they attempt to gobble it all up and when all the scraps are gone, they head out (and that it is practically impossible to direct flayed ones on the battlefields except in pointing them in the general direction of fleshy targets. Instead of the Old flayed ones who don't squabble over consuming flesh, more likely to hang out within the corpse or skin of a victim. And can be used in battles in a covert manner (once again, Ben Counter's Hellforged in which multiple flayed ones pose as gravely injured soldiers that are taken back to field hospitals only to be "dead" on arrival). Once they had the numbers, and the battle resumed a fevered pitch, they exit the makeshift morgue and wreak havoc in the backfield by hunting down a few key commanding elements with the planet's or system's governor being the primary target.

Don't know about you, but the flayed ones of old and the ones now are vastly different.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

OK. name one explicit different apart from the shattering of the C'tan that outright disproves the older fluff, and hasn't been retconned back (Looking at Inertialess Drives there).

Keeping it short because I know you're not interested in an honest answer:

a) C'tan are not C'tan. The actual C'Tan are the most powerful (corporeal) beings in the universe, the ones in the current codex are powerful beings on the level of demons. Shattering them makes no sense as the very same people failed to win /any/ war with the machinery they had before and are now supposed to defeat actual gods. That can manipulate the universe and time itself. The new C'tan are still called C'tan, but are not C'tan as presented in the TruCron fluff.

b) FO are not FO. Same name, different unit.

c) Necrons are not Necrons. Necrons are soulless automatons, it literally says that their souls are gone. Newcrons suddenly have their souls intact.

d) Newcron motivation makes no sense whatsoever. Their previous "life" was all they knew about life, i.e. dying at young age and suffering pain for all of it. Why would they even /want/ to get back to a human form? This is one of the worst plot points in the entire, idiotic fluff. It was written in to satisfy people who are...easily satisfied because they assume that everyone wants to be human. The Necrontyr don't want a better life. They want to absolutely destroy every other life in the universe. That is their goal, full stop. That's the reason why they trusted The Deceiver and were betrayed, effectively extincting themselves. That is what still drives them - the hate for all life.

e) Wraiths suddenly went from Necron killer machines to Canoptek crap.

f) The Necrons have one fatal weakness, The Warp, and suddenly, everyone thought that dropping the thought of developing effective counter-mechanisms such as The Pariah, which were /the/ missing link in the Necron arsenal, was a good idea. Duh?

g) Suddenly, it's possible to gather Necron parts. Ye know, parts that immediately disappear upon destruction of the parent unit.

The 3rd ed Codex:Necrons was the absolute epitome of GW writing. It was the perfect combination of fluff and rules. Hands down. The Phase Out rule, for example, was perfect. It's a global rule that balances other Necron units out and perfectly goes with the fluff. The strong limitation of units also made perfect sense - the Necrons are weapons. That's it. They aren't a race or anything, they are just weapons, an extension of the C'tan. Every single unit has its purpose. No decorations or anything idiotic like that, they are weapons and not Christmas Trees.

TruCron and NewCron are mutually exclusive. Both codices follow different ideas and are written by differently talented writers, i.e. a good author who thought about what he was doing and really put time and effort into its work...and Matt Ward. NewCron fluff certainly appeals to a lot of people, it's easy to understand and doesn't require much additional thinking / delving into the actual story. They are Space Marines in a metal hull.

 King Pariah wrote:


...And that's all that I can think of at the moment off the top of my head.

That'll do, loved every word of that


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 Sigvatr wrote:


The 3rd ed Codex:Necrons was the absolute epitome of GW writing. It was the perfect combination of fluff and rules. Hands down. The Phase Out rule, for example, was perfect. It's a global rule that balances other Necron units out and perfectly goes with the fluff. The strong limitation of units also made perfect sense - the Necrons are weapons. That's it. They aren't a race or anything, they are just weapons, an extension of the I C'tan. Every single unit has its purpose. No decorations or anything idiotic like that, they are weapons and not Christmas Trees.

Thank you, you understand.

TruCron and NewCron are mutually exclusive. Both codices follow different ideas and are written by differently talented writers, i.e. a good author who thought about what he was doing and really put time and effort into its work...and Matt Ward. NewCron fluff certainly appeals to a lot of people, it's easy to understand and doesn't require much additional thinking / delving into the actual story. They are Space Marines in a metal hull.

"And Matt Ward" hahahahaha

In case anyone is interested in the poll results so far
48 Votes in total

'What necron fluff is better, 3rd edition or 7th edition?'
3rd Edition - 30 votes (62.5%)
7th edition - 18 votes (37.5%)

You can still vote here : http://goo.gl/6MiUOT

Not really surprising since in a thread about bringing back the old Necrons, a majority of people posting in and viewing it would prefer 3rd.

If said poll was posted in a thread about the Newcron fluff or similar, the results would be biased towards 7th edition for similar reason, the majority of viewers and posters in the thread would like the Newcron fluff.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:

OK. name one explicit different apart from the shattering of the C'tan that outright disproves the older fluff, and hasn't been retconned back (Looking at Inertialess Drives there).

Keeping it short because I know you're not interested in an honest answer:

a) C'tan are not C'tan. The actual C'Tan are the most powerful (corporeal) beings in the universe, the ones in the current codex are powerful beings on the level of demons. Shattering them makes no sense as the very same people failed to win /any/ war with the machinery they had before and are now supposed to defeat actual gods. That can manipulate the universe and time itself. The new C'tan are still called C'tan, but are not C'tan as presented in the TruCron fluff.

b) FO are not FO. Same name, different unit.

c) Necrons are not Necrons. Necrons are soulless automatons, it literally says that their souls are gone. Newcrons suddenly have their souls intact.

d) Newcron motivation makes no sense whatsoever. Their previous "life" was all they knew about life, i.e. dying at young age and suffering pain for all of it. Why would they even /want/ to get back to a human form? This is one of the worst plot points in the entire, idiotic fluff. It was written in to satisfy people who are...easily satisfied because they assume that everyone wants to be human. The Necrontyr don't want a better life. They want to absolutely destroy every other life in the universe. That is their goal, full stop. That's the reason why they trusted The Deceiver and were betrayed, effectively extincting themselves. That is what still drives them - the hate for all life.

e) Wraiths suddenly went from Necron killer machines to Canoptek crap.

f) The Necrons have one fatal weakness, The Warp, and suddenly, everyone thought that dropping the thought of developing effective counter-mechanisms such as The Pariah, which were /the/ missing link in the Necron arsenal, was a good idea. Duh?

g) Suddenly, it's possible to gather Necron parts. Ye know, parts that immediately disappear upon destruction of the parent unit.

The 3rd ed Codex:Necrons was the absolute epitome of GW writing. It was the perfect combination of fluff and rules. Hands down. The Phase Out rule, for example, was perfect. It's a global rule that balances other Necron units out and perfectly goes with the fluff. The strong limitation of units also made perfect sense - the Necrons are weapons. That's it. They aren't a race or anything, they are just weapons, an extension of the C'tan. Every single unit has its purpose. No decorations or anything idiotic like that, they are weapons and not Christmas Trees.

TruCron and NewCron are mutually exclusive. Both codices follow different ideas and are written by differently talented writers, i.e. a good author who thought about what he was doing and really put time and effort into its work...and Matt Ward. NewCron fluff certainly appeals to a lot of people, it's easy to understand and doesn't require much additional thinking / delving into the actual story. They are Space Marines in a metal hull.

Some actual content in your next overly sarcastic post would be nice, rather than just repeating "I'm right 'cause I'm right". Ne?


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 King Pariah wrote:
GW released in a white dwarf shortly after ward's codex dropped a statement which made abundantly clear that all C'tan were shattered. The exception was the Flayed C'tan being the only one that was shattered so hard that he was ethereal dust in the wind.

90% certain the criminal statement about Wraiths was from the codex or some old literature BL doesn't print anymore.

Wasn't in the codex, got that in front of me. There wasn't any Necron BL literature from that era - the closest was their appearance in the Cain books, which I mentioned.

The Flayer Virus does contradict the old flayed ones. They're not trying to reclaim old flesh anymore, they're trying to appease a hunger that doesn't exist anywhere but in the 0's and 1's that make up the programming that contains what little remains of their conscious. And lets not forget that after they've had their "hunts" for flesh, they attempt to gobble it all up and when all the scraps are gone, they head out (and that it is practically impossible to direct flayed ones on the battlefields except in pointing them in the general direction of fleshy targets. Instead of the Old flayed ones who don't squabble over consuming flesh, more likely to hang out within the corpse or skin of a victim. And can be used in battles in a covert manner (once again, Ben Counter's Hellforged in which multiple flayed ones pose as gravely injured soldiers that are taken back to field hospitals only to be "dead" on arrival). Once they had the numbers, and the battle resumed a fevered pitch, they exit the makeshift morgue and wreak havoc in the backfield by hunting down a few key commanding elements with the planet's or system's governor being the primary target.

Don't know about you, but the flayed ones of old and the ones now are vastly different.

That's not the Flayed Ones that appear in either the Shield of Baal stuff or the Fall of Orpheus book - both of which far more resemble the Flayed Ones as described in the 3rd edition book.

I may need to re-read the 5e book, but that's gone now anyway in face of the newer stuff.

I see some good points around, but dang there's a lot of "nostalgia goggles / never actually reading newcron fluff" in here

Ugh NO THANKS.

are there seriously people who believe the zero character necrons were better? Just play nids or even cybernetica.

Is there a place that I can thumbs down this petition to show games workshop that there are players that think they did the right thing?

I would seriously rage if they stripped all the character out of necrons and went back to warriors destroyers and the worst model of all time, the monolith.

Nids have and had more personality than crons did.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 King Pariah wrote:
GW released in a white dwarf shortly after ward's codex dropped a statement which made abundantly clear that all C'tan were shattered. The exception was the Flayed C'tan being the only one that was shattered so hard that he was ethereal dust in the wind.

90% certain the criminal statement about Wraiths was from the codex or some old literature BL doesn't print anymore.

Wasn't in the codex, got that in front of me. There wasn't any Necron BL literature from that era - the closest was their appearance in the Cain books, which I mentioned.

You're right, not in the codex. So I started combing the web and while I haven't found thee source, a couple of sites state that in fluff, it is speculated that The Wraiths were Necrontyr murderers and psychopaths.

https://hippiefreakeater.wordpress.com/2008/05/06/necron-summary/
http://www.thefullwiki.org/Necrontyr_%28Warhammer_40%2C000%29#wikipedia_Fast_Attack

and the ever questionable:

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Wraith

So definitely not a figment of my imagination and the second source has a list of references from which it may have originated from. I need some sleep so I'll probably try digging into it tomorrow.

I'd like to add that the current flayed one models are bad, but the old ones are horrendous. I dare the supporters to post the pics side by side.

They both look awful, but at least the new ones look bad in HD.

Nope, you are wrong. The new ones have the worse design. The posing is bad, the skin looks too thick and more like cloth, they have little detail, and the piggy backing dead guy is just silly.
The old ones, despite their age, have quite a big of detail and no silly crap. The posing is a bit stiff, but they are made of metal, and at least they aren't being fabulous.
I just can't take the new ones seriously.


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 Melissia wrote:
Nids have and had more personality than crons did.

How so? Do you mean the genestealer cults? Old Necrons had cults as well, you just didn't see them that often.
Do you mean the little personality that the Hive Tyrants have? In the 3rd book, and also in Xenobiology, it is said that Necron lords also have a personality.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Spoiler:

Nope, you are wrong. The new ones have the worse design. The posing is bad, the skin looks too thick and more like cloth, they have little detail, and the piggy backing dead guy is just silly.
The old ones, despite their age, have quite a big of detail and no silly crap. The posing is a bit stiff, but they are made of metal, and at least they aren't being fabulous.
I just can't take the new ones seriously.

But just look at them! All draped in their pretty pretty Princess ribbons!
heh heh.

Oh god the old Flayed ones Models are totally baller.
Fething horrifying. I love it. Way better than the new ones.

That said, I hate this petition, it seems whiny and contrived.
It doesn't recommend any real solutions other than "bring back 3rd edition" and seems to take issue with formations and modern 40K as a whole.
Half of it's complaints aren't even Necron specific.
So let's fix rather than just complain.

My recommendation as a compromise is thus:
C'tan remain mostly in power of necrons galaxy wide.
Some C'tan are broken/imprisoned or left the galaxy post-war in heaven.
This would leave Nightbringer and Deciever as shards.
Silent King self-exiled/returned and established Sautekh and a few other Dynasties against the will of the remaining C'tan.
All that remains to be done is shrink down the number of dynasties to a few sectors of the galaxy.

And buff the monolith somehow cause the petition seems to do some pissing and moaning about that.

The monolith doesn't need buffing. Vehicles need buffing.

 krodarklorr wrote:
The monolith doesn't need buffing. Vehicles need buffing.

True, but even as vehicles go, the monolith is kind of weak.
Its a vehicle that wants you to deep strike it, but you can't because it will either mishap due to its size, or get melta'd.
The 3rd ed book solved that problem by having rules that negated those drawbacks, thus making it usable in its intended role.
For some reason, GW decided that those rules weren't necessary. Probably to force necron players to buy new vehicles.