PLEASE NOTE: This thread is NOT for Tau, Eldar, Space Marine, Space Wolf, Necron, etc rules hate, OR for current Chaos Marine, Blood Angel, Ork, Dark Eldar, Sisters of Battle rules hate.

Just trying to be real clear on the topic. I'm not mandating that this thread has to be positive or negative, but there are a whole lot of topics to choose from for the above.

However you feel about them, it is hard to deny that the latest rules releases for Space Marines and Eldar were written by people who had an extreme passion for the fluff of the models involved, and had no problems with making tons of new rules to reflect that fluff on the tabletop.

What would your army be like if someone with true passion sat down and took the helm on a new codex? What would iconic models be like if they were released today as the new hotness? Let your imaginations run wild!

Each space wolves unit has to roll a D6 at the start of its controlling player's turn. On a 4+ the wolves recover from their daily hangover and can fight normally for the rest of the game. On a 1-3, however, the unit remains in a drunken stupor: it must subtract 1 from its WS, BS, and I characteristics until the start of your next turn, treats all terrain as difficult, and any blast that lands within 6" of the unit causes pinning (hungover wolves HATE loud noises). Hungover units also have the stubborn special rule.

Various modifiers for younger blood claws who recover faster and long fangs who recover more slowly, etc, etc...

All boyz would be 3ppm and come in minumum squad sizes of 30 with a max of 90. Grots would be 1ppm and come in minumum squad sizes of 40 with a max of 120. Orks would be fearless and have a FNP.

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
All boyz would be 3ppm and come in minumum squad sizes of 30 with a max of 90. Grots would be 1ppm and come in minumum squad sizes of 40 with a max of 120. Orks would be fearless and have a FNP.

Have you ever heard of Renegades and Heretics? If not, you should see if you can preview IA:13, or Siege of Vraks. R&H is done amazingly. Itss like chaos, AM, and a little bit of orks all in one. 3ppm for most infantry, and you can get a warlord that lets them recycle on a +2, and be in units of 30. A special weapon upgrade makes them pseudo fearless too. Swarming my foes with s3 attacks is pretty awesome, if I could get furious charge on them, I would basically have orks! I can already get Rage and re-roll wounds on the first round of combat. Plus the mutants can get S4 hammer of wrath. They have the grunt infantry mutants and platoons, then the vets, mercs, and grenadiers! You get spawn and MC as well, and plenty of them. Heck, you could probably run them as a feral ork army no problem!

marines would be X pts. more expensive for T: 5 and a base 3+ invuln (basically, they always have their 3+ save), terminators are X pts. more expensive for T: 6, 2 wounds, 3+ invuln. Marines are supposed to be the guys in the fluff who can hold off an entire army with a few squads. the guys who, in the fluff, are devastated by loosing more than 5 marines in a battle. Because of the fact that marines were used as the 'base' for defining the power of a weapon, they come off as super fragile on the table top, which is the opposite of how they are supposed to be represented.

 Brennonjw wrote:
marines would be X pts. more expensive for T: 5 and a base 3+ invuln (basically, they always have their 3+ save), terminators are X pts. more expensive for T: 6, 2 wounds, 3+ invuln. Marines are supposed to be the guys in the fluff who can hold off an entire army with a few squads. the guys who, in the fluff, are devastated by loosing more than 5 marines in a battle. Because of the fact that marines were used as the 'base' for defining the power of a weapon, they come off as super fragile on the table top, which is the opposite of how they are supposed to be represented.

Someone actually did this. https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Chapter_Approved/Movie_Marines

Blood Angels would be absolute CC monsters. They would also be the supreme Jump Pack army. Either by gaining the ability to fire their jump pack in both phases like Raven Guard, or by not scattering.

I would also like to see them get something like the Wulfen have. Basically, being around Death Company give them additional stuff.

Guard Tanks with Lumbering Behemoth
Guard LD functioning off of what is an available command structure
Sergeants that can give orders
Guard Superheavies are 14 all around
Weapons teams are weaker artillery (Maybe T5)
An Entrenchment Mechanic for infantry

Ork Leadership overhaul
-Stubborn Mechanic
-No running from close combat
Boyz are strength 4 with rage instead of furious charge
Trukks have some form of jink (Swerve?)

Dark Angels reroll all 1's for gets hot with Plasma Weaponry
Gunslinger Veterans
Sternguard Style Veteran Unit that's shooting based and not CC

Deathwing allowed to deep strike turn 1

An Inquisitorial Codex Consisting of:
-Inquisitors/Henchman
-Certain Inquisitorial Guard units
-Grey Knights
-Sisters of Battle
-Deathwatch
-Assassins

Edit**:
SQUATS

every single stat in the daemons book would be based on a D6 roll, with modifiers depending on what type of daemon it is and what god it belongs to.

And at the end of the game, if your patron god was Tzeentch, you roll to see if your loss was in his plans or not; succeed and you win anyways because TZEENTCH

EDIT: And if your patron god isn't tzeentch, then you roll and see if you win, your opponent wins, or if Tzeentch wins and you and your opponent both count as losing.

CSM did get the fluffy treatment back in 2012. Since then they have been so fluffy they are non competitive. They have been reduced to a fluffy army so cute and cuddly they cant hurt nothing.

I don't even know what that would be like anymore for BA. Honestly.

Sisters would go up in points, and Acts of Faith would be a once per game army-wide thing.

As soon as I put ultramarines on the table I win.

Martel732 wrote:
I don't even know what that would be like anymore for BA. Honestly.

Jump Packs and Rhino-pattern tanks and ...wait, those two aren't compatible. Like at all. Man, BA are garbage no matter what.

I think the harlequins would be alot harder 'to hit'.
We'd have an HQ, LoW and a snag alot of vehicles from the other eldar.
You'd see alot more formations.
Webway portals that Dark Eldar have but we don't .
Some fluffy stuff that makes them seem a bit more like necrons, standing back up when you thought you killed them because that's harlequin shenanigans putting on an act.
12inch move when disembarking from an open topped transport
Solitaire would be able to charge on any deepstrike,infiltrate etc turn because he's only got 2 close combat weapons and a haywire grenade...
ALOT of new models coming straight outta the black library.
"Some" weapons with more than a 24inch range and some D strength stuff.
No perils when rolling doubles on Sanctic.
Edit: more fearless

I've proposed house rules with the guys I play with and I always ensure I'm not overpowered with it or it has an equal chance to be just as bad for me. So if any of this came true, I'd hope it did in a way that wasn't lolfail or just straight game breaking.

Guadsman would still be guardsmans, but there would be plenty more guardsman. Because you need lots of guardsman to support your lots of guardsman. That's how the IG does it.

Wyches would become what they're supposed to be: veteran gladiatrixes toying with their victims. At the beginning of each round of combat, they'd choose one of the following:

Weak Points: Enemy unit counts as Toughness -1 and Sv+1 vs the Wyches attacks

Disarm: same as Jain Zar: each enemy model in B2B with at least 1 wych counts as not having access to 1 melee weapon (opponents choice)

Humiliating Riposte: For each dodge save made by the Wyches in cc, they gain 1 automatic hit at the end of the initiative step.

This would allow them to adapt to new situations, stalking combat, cleaving through hordes to dealing the death bliw

In a 1500 point game, I'd bring... 1 Captain and 3-4 Marines...

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
In a 1500 point game, I'd bring... 1 Captain and 3-4 Marines...

I don't think marines are that fancy. Especially with as many titan thingies and air bombardment as there are in the setting.

 drunken0elf wrote:
Guadsman would still be guardsmans, but there would be plenty more guardsman. Because you need lots of guardsman to support your lots of guardsman. That's how the IG does it.

I'd totally accept that on the condition that Commissar's shoot alot more of their own. Lol
OR just give them extra models solely for being executed. I don't think the current method best meets the fluff.

Use the Path to Glory campaign Chaos Boons, instead of the current one.

VotLW gives Hatred IoM and Into the Grave rule.

Into the Grave; If a unit with this special rule lose a close combat and is destroyed by the ennemy sweeping advance, don't take the model off the table yet.

Each models in the units can make any numbers of attacks Vs the ennemy unit, they use their Wargear and attacks on their profil to their fullest, the ennemy cannot strike back.

If the CSM unit with this rule manage to make enough unsaved wounds that the ennemy unit is at a numerical disadvantage, then hte CSM unit isn't destroyed, the CSm unit and the ennemy unit stay locked in CC.

If the CSM cannot inflict enough damage for the ennemy unit to be at a numerical disadvantage, take the CSM unit off the table as usual.

Kharn get a 2+ armor, EW and a Seal of Corruption.

2+ armor option for HQ's.

Path/Dedication for Lords and Princes, so that they get the basics of what the Cult units has.

Termies have WS and BS 5, more divers options, new Chaos Shield option, give a 4++ Daemon save to the model, if succesfull save is made random ennemy modeil in 6" gets a Str3 Ap- hit.

Chaos termie armors gives the models HoW.

Possesed have WS5, Init 5, 2 CCW, Move like cavalry, a shooting attack thats 18" assault 2 Str 4 Ap 5.

BloodCrushers are T5 and save of 4, Juggers HoW are dealt with Str7.

Chosen are WS5 BS5, acces to Veteran skills, 1 for free, additional for a price, Veteran skills includes, Tank/Monster hunter, Infiltrator/Scout, Move through cover/Fleet, Prefered ennemy.

Gets special wargear for a discount.

Mutilators are either completly scrapped, or overhauled, make them more like Sw Lone Wolves, either small unit of Murderers and Slashers fanatics, or a Lone Serial Killer who challenge anything that crosses his path to murder it, each time it defeats something it gains a Mutation.

Dreadclaw in codex, 75pts, can be taken as an assigned transport by CSM, Chosen, Cult Marines, dreads of all kinds, Havocs,

Land Raider has the Infernal Engine rule=PotMS.
-Can exchange side sponsons Lazcans with Hades AC or Ectoplasma cannons.
-Can Exchang front turret Twin HB with Twin Baleflamer or a pair of reaper AC.

Daemonic Possession gives vehicles the Daemon USR.

In the case of a Dread in a Possesed Dreadclaw, its impossible for the Daemon to devour it.

Cultists gets a "specialists" set of skills for a price, they can infiltrate, have move through cover or Flank attack, have acces to Meltas and plasma guns.

Zerkers have 2A, +1 Init on charge, Khornate Chain weapons base, 2 models can exchange their weapons with special CCW.

Rhino can be modified to be open topped.

Vehicles can be dedicated to a God, not sure what to give them for the moment.

Daemon engines can be Possesed with a God's particular Daemon.
-Khorne-Bloodletter; Gives the Engine Rage
-Juggernaut, Gives Rage +1Init and Rampage.
- Bloodthrister, Rage, +1Init, +1WS/BS.
-Not really a player for the other gods, but something that fits their theme obviously.

Addition of Special named & unique Daemons that can Posseses a Daemon Engine, think like the 5 last options of the Legacy of Ruins in IA13.

LEGION/WARBANDS RULES/TACTICS/PATHS !!!!! FFS!.

Heldrakes Neck give it a 180* AoF.

Raptors gets Hit and Run.

Defilers is reduced to 165pts, Front Av is 13, can exchange its other weapons with additional CCW's, as the "Multi legged Abomnation" rule; allows it to Fire all its weapons at his normal BS even after firing his Battle cannon.

Martel732 wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
In a 1500 point game, I'd bring... 1 Captain and 3-4 Marines...

I don't think marines are that fancy. Especially with as many titan thingies and air bombardment as there are in the setting.

Well... It only took 5 Salamanders plus Chaplain and 3 Black Dragons to escape Commorragh... I think they are fancy enough.

If they did it for every codex, and done well, I would think about playing 40k again.

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
In a 1500 point game, I'd bring... 1 Captain and 3-4 Marines...

I don't think marines are that fancy. Especially with as many titan thingies and air bombardment as there are in the setting.

Well... It only took 5 Salamanders plus Chaplain and 3 Black Dragons to escape Commorragh... I think they are fancy enough.

That's the delusion of some author, though. It's impossible to say what fluffy marines could really do. Too many cooks and all that.

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
If they did it for every codex, and done well, I would think about playing 40k again.

one thing worth noting is that Marines individual units are, with a very few rare exceptions, not super powerful. what makes em good is formations that give some solid advantages, all of which are really pretty fluffy.

BrianDavion wrote:

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
If they did it for every codex, and done well, I would think about playing 40k again.

one thing worth noting is that Marines individual units are, with a very few rare exceptions, not super powerful. what makes em good is formations that give some solid advantages, all of which are really pretty fluffy.

The rules for the actual marines are weak as hell actually. Which explains the BA and CSM.

KDK: The Blood God's Finest

Bloodthirsters would be the most potent melee combatants in the setting, bar none. Their maxed weapon skill would actually mean something. All variants would be terrors on the tabletop. Perhaps the ability to change flight modes and charge in the same turn.

Mortal warriors of Khorne would have access to juggernauts. This would include Dark Apostles, Warpsmiths, and Chosen/Berzerkers. The juggernaut itself would either be buffed to rival the Thunderwolf mount, or have its price reduced to reflect its inferior stats. Also, by extension this means that KDK would have access to Dark Apostles and Warpsmiths.

At the very least, Skarbrand and Karanak would be added as HQ options for KDK. Kharn can stay CSM exclusive, though really he could be there too.

Skulltaker would remember where he left his juggernaut.

Daemon characters would be able to take Khornate rewards.

Chosen and Mutilators would be available to the army.

ALL unit champions would have access to the Axe of Khorne, whose price would be reduced in light of all the insane stuff going on these days, like Wulfen weapons.

Warp Talons would be able to charge after arriving by Deep Strike.

There would be a way of deep striking accurately beyond what we have now. For example, the banner of blood would be available for any CSM unit that can take an icon. CSM and daemon units would arrive accurately, not just daemons.

We'd also get a potent anti-psyker independent character. Similar abilities to the Culexus, but distinct.

We'd have some real hitting power. Daemon weapons, for example. The Axe of Blind Fury would be included in our artifacts, as would a daemon weapon thunder hammer. As would an artificer armor equivalent.

There would be a single event in the fluff where the forces of Khorne absolutely DEMOLISH the Grey Knights.

Imperial Guard.
When you lose a unit roll 2 D6.
9-11 you replace the unit in your reserves.
on a 12, you replace the unit and can immediately deploy it (normally).

anything else you don't replace it.

edit: if I think of more Ill put them in here.

There would be a single event in the fluff where the forces of Khorne absolutely DEMOLISH the Grey Knights.

we're talking fluffy rules not "what fluff would you like to see so you could see your codex destroy that codex you dislike"

Vox casters get a longer range. WW2 radios seem to be more advanced than a guardsman 's.

More orders per turn.

As another poster said: entrenchment options of guard. (Modified go to ground maybe?)

 tau tse tung wrote:
Vox casters get a longer range. WW2 radios seem to be more advanced than a guardsman 's.

More orders per turn.

As another poster said: entrenchment options of guard. (Modified go to ground maybe?)

Because WWII is more modern than 40K.

IG\AM Commissars would allow you to autopass any morale or leadership check at the low low price of a single model.

Daemons: There should be a named Tzeentch Demon Lord that is T1 on the field but allows its player to determine matchups in tournaments.'Didn't we just play a match?' 'Blame Bob and his Plotter in the Dark.'

Unlimited range Earthshakers, ignore all saves, the blast covers half a 4x6 board, can fire from reserves, good times.

Inquisition. Exterminatus. WE BOTH LOSE!!!!

Boyz are S4 T4, Nobz become S5 T5 Warbosses are S6 T6

Orks are fearless when they have a character in their unit.

Mekz and Big Mekz can produce a random vehicle each turn from battlefield scrap

Lootas fire D3+3 shots a turn

All Ork weaponry gains +1S because I have yet to find anything in the fluff that explains why all their tech is 1 less then Imperial norms, IE our Battle Cannon (Kill Kannon) is S7 and Range 24.

Eldar Suriken weapons get AP 3 but lower strength than laser weapons (take cannons down to 5 compared to scatter lasers 6), in the lore they cut straight through power armour in the books, so they should in the game. Infantry and Walkers should get a distracting grace rule. Eldar armour should also be like 5+ or 6+ unless they pass an initiative test, then it goes to 4+ or 3+ this being related to their psychoactivity, the armour is more effective if the user is ready.

I know the last thing Eldar need is more buffs, but I'm sticking to the books.

Marshals for Black Templars that lay somewhere between generic Captains and High Marshal Helbrecht. Ah.... the dreams are real! haha

Martel732 wrote:
I don't even know what that would be like anymore for BA. Honestly.

Instead of a gladius you get a blood wing detachment, makes everything in the Sanguine Demi Company scoring, lets you take 1-3 assault marines/bikes/etc., and you get +1 I on the charge.

If you take Sanguinie Demi Companies In a blood wing, you get to take Rhinos, Pods and Razorbacks for free, but still have to pay for the fast upgrade! Because they have to screw BAs somehow.

Maybe they'll be nice and let you take an 8th company detachment as core, that lets you take 3-6 assault marines squads with assault out of deep strike or something (op! Zomg qqqqqq).

Essentially a legion CSM codex. Legion rules, viable units, viable buildS, viable marks and reasonablepoint costs. Everything the present codex and it's supplements fail to achieve.

shiwan8 wrote:
Essentially a legion CSM codex. Legion rules, viable units, viable buildS, viable marks and reasonablepoint costs. Everything the present codex and it's supplements fail to achieve.

maybe ask GW to reprint the 3.5 CSM codex for eighth?

No love for Tyranids? :(

Instinctive Behaviour is just awful. Replace it with Synapse giving EW and Fearless, and being out of Synapse means taking a Pinning Check at the start of the turn.

The IB tables either do jack-all for some units, or completely invalidate others (Hormagaunts...)

Drop the points values on gribblies, or give them free upgrades with formations.

Improved WS across the board, Initiative and Attacks. Shred and Rending on more bioweapons. Bring back the re-roll bonus for paired scytals.

Rebalance the heavy weapons (BL Devourers are just so stupidly good; tone them down and improve the other weapons). Emphasis on short range, low S, high ROF assault weapons.

Make Zoanthropes shooting attack just that (not a psychic attack which has to be cast.... not denied... and hit...)

Shadow In The Warp should really, *really* screw up psykers. Gibbering madness of the void and all that. Increase perils, force LD tests, reduce warp charges, whatever... Make Nids a natural foil to the psychic deathstars.

For the love of Swarmy, give us some decent HQ options, make our MC's actually good, and give us a decent GMC in plastic...

For a fluffy guard army:
Step 1) lose your first battle
Step 2) immediately set up the exact same force with a lot more guardsmen and continue the game as normal.
Step 3) Victory! Or if you lose repeat step 2 until you do.

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
As soon as I put ultramarines on the table I win.

But you only have two marines survive the game.

Space Marines would be able to have drop pods arrive on top of enemy squads, either displacing the squad or inflicting a wound against any model underneath the landing point.
Apothecaries would be independent characters capable of joining any squad?

Jump Packs could be used as a deep strike/arrival mechanic that potentially displaces models in a specific landing area.

Eldar wouldn't be deploying wraiths to every battlefield unless Iyanden, and they'd probably be point locked to higher point games for them to show up in the first place.

Farseers could potentially give an invul save to warriors by sending them a command to move out of the way of an attack before it happened

Zelarias wrote:

Farseers could potentially give an invul save to warriors by sending them a command to move out of the way of an attack before it happened

You mean, like a psychic power that gave them a 4+ Invuln save?

Zelarias wrote:
Space Marines would be able to have drop pods arrive on top of enemy squads, either displacing the squad or inflicting a wound against any model underneath the landing point.
Apothecaries would be independent characters capable of joining any squad?

Jump Packs could be used as a deep strike/arrival mechanic that potentially displaces models in a specific landing area.

Eldar wouldn't be deploying wraiths to every battlefield unless Iyanden, and they'd probably be point locked to higher point games for them to show up in the first place.

Farseers could potentially give an invul save to warriors by sending them a command to move out of the way of an attack before it happened

Yes to jump packs, they should maybe cause damage on arrival, and also you should JUST BE ABLE TO FRIGGIN CHARGE with a jump pack (not any deep strike necessarily)

But drop pods aren't actually supposed to hit the ground all that fast, that's what all the thrusters are. If they landed at anything like terminal velocity, it wouldn't matter how big your shoulderpads were, you'd just get liquified.

SemperMortis wrote:
Mekz can produce a random vehicle each turn from battlefield scrap

I would totally play against that.

 Griddlelol wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
Mekz can produce a random vehicle each turn from battlefield scrap

I would totally play against that.

I mean, if you limit it to maybe just Big Meks, if they give up their movement and shooting phase, and they can create a

1) Deffbuggy
2) Killa Kan
3) Trukk with Big Shoota or Rokkit
4) Basic Looted Wagon with Big Shoota or Rokkit
5) Deffcopta
6) Basic Battlewagon with nothing on it

Even if, at max, you could be creating 660 points of battlewagons or something, they wouldn't hardly be "OP" with no guns.

And if the Mek is making on average ~150 points or something, compare that to the basic number of free transports you get with a gladius...

Killa Kans, Deffdreads and Naughts all become the MC's/GMC's that the points and fluff says they are..
Deffkoptas get the NOB on bike stats line instead of the boy statline...Since we are paying for it the BW needs to be fast..
Mekboy (as MEk) Big Mek (a repalcement for a boss nob same statline as current) Boss MEk (same statline as base warboss) ..In keeping with the fluff




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ghazz becomes an MC with T-6 / 6 wounds 2+/2++/2+++
IT will not die..etc at current points cost (just want our points worth) if he is an LOW lets make him an LOW that can really go toe to toe with a Carnifex..

Specialised aircraft transports that could drop a blob of 50ish or so guardsmen

Basing rules on fluff is difficult because their fluff is so wildly inconsistent, and GW has no concept of logistics and scale.

Marine chapters (codex compliant anyway) have around 1000 marines, plus who knows how many scouts/recruits. In the Tau/Raven Guard/White Scars campaign book (name escapes me), a single battle has "hundreds" of marines lost, which would cripple the chapters involved and probably force a withdrawal. That entire book essentially made the marines look like complete amateurs at war.

On the other hand, the first Salamanders novel has like 18 marines in a fort hold off tens of thousands of Orks while suffering virtually no casualties themselves. If marines were to match the fluff, their armour save would be determined on a D6 prior to the game, with the save being equal to whatever you roll. This is to represent, for that particular battle, your story was either drafted for a Tau-centric campaign book or Chaos codex supplement, or your story was put together by a Black Library novelists.

Of course, I've never understood the Tyranid method of invasion....for some reason, the Hive Mind feels the need to kill off ever single pocket of resistance prior to dropping its feeding tubes onto the planet....Why? Just drop the tubes in, and start feeding. Don't bother chasing a handful of marines or IG, just start chowing down. Put your forces near the feeding sites and wait for the planets opposition to come to you. Entirely off-subject, I know, but its just one of the many things that irritates me about GW fluff writing.

Free Termagants and Hormagaunts. Or even worse/better, a Decurion for Tyranids where every single model is free and comes on in waves. It's really hard to simulate an 'endless horde' when there's nothing endless or horde about it.

Railguns on Hammerheads that outrange any Imperial tank guns. Hammerheads that can move faster than then the IG tanks and be precisely accurate. Shooting and moving with no penalty. Rapid fire tanks since its said in Mont'ka HH pilots were basically lining up shots and pressing fire leaving a trail of death.

Near one shot fatality of the gun.

In reality its a pathetic wimp.

Melee Kroot. On tabletop they might be able to win against basic guardsmen. Maybe? But are better as sniper.

That's off the top of my head.

Leman Russ would have LB and a 4++ save

Baneblades would be AV 15/14/14 and have a 4++ save

Demolisher cannons would have Ignores Cover

The Deathstrike would have a 50" blast radius and autokill everything under it

My Infantry would be able to entrench AND be respawn when killed.

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
Free Termagants and Hormagaunts. Or even worse/better, a Decurion for Tyranids where every single model is free and comes on in waves. It's really hard to simulate an 'endless horde' when there's nothing endless or horde about it.

Look into the Shield of Bael formations. They aren't the best formations, but I feel they are underrated.

Tau general
Tau get to redeploy units after their opponents have deployed vs everyone but necrons and Eldar (tau's tactical mastery and technological superiority over the other races)
All tau vehicles gain the ability to overwatch/supporting fire for free.
All tau vehicles gain fast
All tau vehicles get BS10 (because of taus advanced targeting computers, that surpass today's technology)
All tau vehicles gain electronic counter measures suits - provides them with invulnerable saves against shooting
All tau vehicles can shoot at full BS when jinked (because of taus advanced targeting computers, that surpass today's technology)
Tau suits get BS10 (because of taus advanced targeting computers, that surpass today's technology
Tau suits get I4 unless specified
Markerlights - reduce cover by 1 per marker light expended

Hammerheads
- railguns are S w/ +1 on the D-table results (HH's have 1 shot titans)

Drones
- drones have all of the rules in the drone net formation as standard -Interceptor, Jink, Outflank, Precision Shot, and Split Fire
- BS10 - (because of taus advanced targeting computers, that surpass today's technology)
- drones can infiltrate and have acute senses
- drones are fearless
- drones explode

Tau Troops - FW, Pathfinders, Kroot, Vespid
Same statline, all troops get battle focus rules as well as darkstriders fighting retreat rule - allows unit to consolidate D6" in any direction immediately after firing their overwatch and BEFORE the charging unit rolls for charge distance.
5pts decrease in pathfinder special weapons
--Railrifle - adds armorbane and each hit causes D3 wounds or hull points.
Kroot get more expensive but are better at melee and have general stealth and shrouded when in terrain/ruins
Vespid get 3+sv, guns get 2 shots, T4

Suits
Stealth suits are Str4 T4 2W - sv3+
Crisis Suits Str 5 T5 3W - sv3+
Hazard suits are Str 5 T6 3W - sv2+
Broadside suites Str5, T6 4W - sv2+
____HHR - gets Armorbane, each hit causes D3 wounds or hull points.
Y'varha Riptide - Str6, T6, 5W - sv2+ - 275pts
Riptide - Str6, T6, 6W - sv2+ - 250pts
R'varna Riptide - Str7, T7, 7W - sv2+ - move to GC, 300pts - change weapon to AP3 - larger the target, the AP goes down as Str goes up - vehicles, buildings, GC SHV - Str D
Stormsurge - Str 8, T8, 8W, I3 - sv2+ - 400pts - give blacksun filter - has invulnerable save included - 4++
Ta'unar - Str 10, T10, W10, I2 - sv2+ - give blacksun filter?

BrianDavion wrote:

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
If they did it for every codex, and done well, I would think about playing 40k again.

one thing worth noting is that Marines individual units are, with a very few rare exceptions, not super powerful. what makes em good is formations that give some solid advantages, all of which are really pretty fluffy.

My idea is to add the ability to buy plot armor for your models. It gives them double wounds, the ability to re-roll fails, the ability to buy any waregear in the codex and makes them a SC.

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
In a 1500 point game, I'd bring... 1 Captain and 3-4 Marines...

I don't think marines are that fancy. Especially with as many titan thingies and air bombardment as there are in the setting.

Well... It only took 5 Salamanders plus Chaplain and 3 Black Dragons to escape Commorragh... I think they are fancy enough.

Sorry, I know it was on the last page, but what's the actual reference for this?

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
In a 1500 point game, I'd bring... 1 Captain and 3-4 Marines...

I don't think marines are that fancy. Especially with as many titan thingies and air bombardment as there are in the setting.

Well... It only took 5 Salamanders plus Chaplain and 3 Black Dragons to escape Commorragh... I think they are fancy enough.

Sorry, I know it was on the last page, but what's the actual reference for this?

Tome of fire trilogy, I believe

Orks can purchase giant 40 man drop pods(with turn 1 drop, no risk of perils, but units inside take s4 dmg the turn they come in) that are 14 all around opentopped. Can carry multiple units and can't explode. Can be upgraded with almost every ork gun imaginable (w power of machine spirit and grot gunner upgrades), have slots for vehicles, can be upgraded with kff or telly port that acts as an outlet for any type of reserve, and all comes for the incredibly ramshackle price of around 300pts. Enemy Units can make base contact and assault everything inside while everything inside can assault all units in base contact.
It will be called "rok".

DKoK units automatically pass Fear checks caused by losing units in their squad

(Previous entrenchment-idea from Tau Tse Tung refined) Instead of shooting, the guardsmen can entrench themselves to gain +1 in cover save when there's cover and +2 when thery're in open ground (or instead they can create small entrenchment-scenery, like sandbags, that can be used by everyone)

All sniper rifles have unlimited range, but whenever they shoot an enemy that is further than their actual range the model has to make snapshots (or -2 or similar in accuracy).

When a blast weapon fires at a target that is nearer than half of the maximum range, instead of rolling 2D6 with the dispersion dice, just role 1D6

DKoK don't take LD checks for losing units, except for losses in combat, but there are very few things that will not wipe out 10 guardsmen, even if they're WS4

 master of ordinance wrote:
Leman Russ would have LB and a 4++ save

Baneblades would be AV 15/14/14 and have a 4++ save

What? Since when do Baneblades and LRs have forcefields and Warlord Titan-grade armour?


#makerussesav13

#fluffmarinecodexwhen

#marinelivesmatter

 GloomyFenix wrote:

edit I re-read what you said and get what you mean now.

For guardsmen "digging in" I'd be content with an order whereby infantry squads can Go to Ground, but fire at full BS. Give the order to PCSs and CCSs. No where near over-powered. Gives PCSs an actual use and competes with other orders like FRFSRF, FOMT or BID.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
Leman Russ would have LB and a 4++ save

Baneblades would be AV 15/14/14 and have a 4++ save

What? Since when do Baneblades and LRs have forcefields and Warlord Titan-grade armour?

Not forcefields, the 4++ save comes from the chassis being so damn tough that it can throw off just about everything that hits it (seriously, read some Guard fluff). Baneblades are even tougher - if you ever read the Gaunts Ghosts series or the Gunheads books then you will see. In Gaunts Ghosts Baneblades are nigh unkillable - one is killed by a lucky shot that passes through the hole created by another tankers Augur shell, and this is only after the thing has taken out about half the Imperial tanks and withstood hits from Laser Destroyers.
In Gunheads a Baneblade captured by the Orks takes hits from several companies of Leman Russ tanks for no appreciable damage beyond scorched plates and is only stopped when the Ork Warboss commanding it is hit by an AP shell.

Both of these tanks are, in fluff, stupidly tough. Sure they are not fast, but they are not meant to be. They take the hits like no one else can.

 master of ordinance wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
Leman Russ would have LB and a 4++ save

Baneblades would be AV 15/14/14 and have a 4++ save

What? Since when do Baneblades and LRs have forcefields and Warlord Titan-grade armour?

Not forcefields, the 4++ save comes from the chassis being so damn tough that it can throw off just about everything that hits it (seriously, read some Guard fluff). Baneblades are even tougher - if you ever read the Gaunts Ghosts series or the Gunheads books then you will see. In Gaunts Ghosts Baneblades are nigh unkillable - one is killed by a lucky shot that passes through the hole created by another tankers Augur shell, and this is only after the thing has taken out about half the Imperial tanks and withstood hits from Laser Destroyers.
In Gunheads a Baneblade captured by the Orks takes hits from several companies of Leman Russ tanks for no appreciable damage beyond scorched plates and is only stopped when the Ork Warboss commanding it is hit by an AP shell.

Both of these tanks are, in fluff, stupidly tough. Sure they are not fast, but they are not meant to be. They take the hits like no one else can.

Give a 4++ to Vindicators and Land Raiders too then, it's not like they are any less resilient than Russes (that Siege Shield). Hell, Russes already pay 100pts less than a Land Raider for the same AV (that everyone will be shooting at since you are 72" away, unless the enemy uses heinously expensive suicide drop troops).

And in the fluff, Marines dodge bullets that they notice after they have been fired, shrug off massed lasguns and frag grenades and run at 100+ KPH. If you agree to that, I'll agree to your superBaneblades.

Oh, but that is stupid, of course. It's only okay when Guard do it. When Marines do it they are mary sues for kids, when Marbo does it it is heroic and manly.

>.<

-Ork clans space marine style + some clan only units
- a lot of Ia8 incorporated in the codex.
- resurrection of a lot of old oop ork units

 oldzoggy wrote:

- resurrection of a lot of old oop ork units

We need this. I don't even like Orks anymore and even I am annoyed over the removal of so much stuff.

You should see my friend's Wazdakka conversion. It's a beauty.

Our flier swarms would be actually equal to the Imperium of man (Tau) where as right now our two fliers are the worst of any fliers in the game that got even worse with the new flying supplement.

Praise the Earth Caste Engineers of FW for updating the Barracuda. Now make the rules good for having to suffer the ugliest looking fliers in the game and the worst in terms of stats. I'll take 10 flying brick fighters before I field a Tau codex fighter.

And a "Kustom supplement".
That would inlcude rules for things like the
-Kustom units: Kustom stompa, Kustom battle fortress, Kustom mega dread, all sorts of other Kustom versions of popular units such as kustom trukks wagons and gorkanauts.
-ork fortiications
-Additional low power kustom (relic like) items for nob and meks

+ Some nice conversion guides on how to kitbash them together from other GW kits.

This would make a lot of ork players happy

Add stuff like being allowed to 'loot' vehicles from other factions (weaker versions to not make the mix&matching too OP, adding Don't Press Dat, etc).

 Ashiraya wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
Leman Russ would have LB and a 4++ save

Baneblades would be AV 15/14/14 and have a 4++ save

What? Since when do Baneblades and LRs have forcefields and Warlord Titan-grade armour?

Not forcefields, the 4++ save comes from the chassis being so damn tough that it can throw off just about everything that hits it (seriously, read some Guard fluff). Baneblades are even tougher - if you ever read the Gaunts Ghosts series or the Gunheads books then you will see. In Gaunts Ghosts Baneblades are nigh unkillable - one is killed by a lucky shot that passes through the hole created by another tankers Augur shell, and this is only after the thing has taken out about half the Imperial tanks and withstood hits from Laser Destroyers.
In Gunheads a Baneblade captured by the Orks takes hits from several companies of Leman Russ tanks for no appreciable damage beyond scorched plates and is only stopped when the Ork Warboss commanding it is hit by an AP shell.

Both of these tanks are, in fluff, stupidly tough. Sure they are not fast, but they are not meant to be. They take the hits like no one else can.

Give a 4++ to Vindicators and Land Raiders too then, it's not like they are any less resilient than Russes (that Siege Shield). Hell, Russes already pay 100pts less than a Land Raider for the same AV (that everyone will be shooting at since you are 72" away, unless the enemy uses heinously expensive suicide drop troops).

And in the fluff, Marines dodge bullets that they notice after they have been fired, shrug off massed lasguns and frag grenades and run at 100+ KPH. If you agree to that, I'll agree to your superBaneblades.

Oh, but that is stupid, of course. It's only okay when Guard do it. When Marines do it they are mary sues for kids, when Marbo does it it is heroic and manly.

>.<

Landraiders, yes I can see that, but Vindicators? Those things are just upgunned APC's with some extra armour slapped on. There is no way in hell that those things have the structural integrity to withstand dedicated AT hits like the purpose built chassis.
And whilst we are here I would like to put paid to the falsehoods that:
A) Leman Russ have the same effective armour as a Land Raider. No even close sonny, the Russ can be flanked and spanked or meleed to death. It also lacks the troop capacity and assault vehicle rule and BS4 and that extra HP that the Landraider gets and its firepower is only slightly better.
B) 72" is the maximum range of the gun. It never happens unless you are playing on a custom built board/car park. The average engagement range in 40K is 18" to 36"
C) 'Suicide drop troops' and 'Space Marines' are not words that go together. 'R-p-tastic drop troops' on the other hand.... Yeah.
and finally
D) You see, the reason everyone gets fed up with Marines and calls them Mary Sue's is because every single piece of their fluff portrays how they are these utterly excellent perfections of mankind standing seven to eight feet tall with these incredibly well toned bodies and these minds that can absorb and understand everything around them in the blink of an eye and how even when naked they can just shrug off weapons fire and when armoured they are each, individually, the equivalent of an entire army and how they are able to do things like defeat an entire Dark Eldar raiding cabal single handedly, fight with greater demons and win, defeat Necron Tomb Worlds and even solo the Nightbringer, amongst other things.
Every. Single. One. Of. Them. is a depicted as a Mary Sue whereas the Guardsmen are depicted as basic grunt humans who go out into the cold and unforgiving universe to fight on the front line. They are not given any fancy power armour or Bolter, nor are they given gene enhancements or the Sueseed. They are regular, bog standard humans with all the flaws and failings that humans have and yet, in a universe filled with countless horrors from ancient machine robots to hideous giant insects, from angry green fungi to monstrosities from beyond the veil they hold the line.
They die in countless billions and yet still they hold and THAT is what makes them amazing. Yes they have characters like Marbo who are a bit sueish BUT they are almost unheard of. And even then these characters still have some form of grittiness to them, unlike the shining power armoured Marines.

And yet, when it comes down to the crunch Marines have utterly amazing rules and entire supplements dedicated to them and are the 2nd most powerful army within the game whilst the Guard languish with a Codex that is set during the 3rd and 5th editions and has only one unit that is actually worth its points. And yet still the Marine players howl and whine and demand more.

 master of ordinance wrote:


And yet, when it comes down to the crunch Marines have utterly amazing rules and entire supplements dedicated to them and are the 2nd most powerful army within the game whilst the Guard languish with a Codex that is set during the 3rd and 5th editions and has only one unit that is actually worth its points. And yet still the Marine players howl and whine and demand more.

For the Vindicator: Have you seen that massive Siege Shield?

40k's lore is not fair. SM are stronger than Guardsmen. That is just how it is. In fact, they are not even playing in the same ballpark. Dealing with that comes with accepting the IG faction.

Whether IG units are overcosted or not is a separate matter (in many cases, they are overcosted indeed), but every unit in your codex is by far more powerful compared to just about everyone else than it is in the lore, whether we compare to marines or necrons or tyranids or eldar, so I can't have much sympathy for your units feeling like their stats are too low.

Much like Dr. Manhattan and Superman, having someone play on a whole different field compared most others does not make for bad lore, it just looks like it triggers envy... (And Marines are far from that strong). Sure, many Marine books are badly written but that is just GW hiring bad authors, not the Marine design being poor.

 master of ordinance wrote:
the Guardsmen are depicted as basic grunt humans who go out into the cold and unforgiving universe to fight on the front line. They are not given any fancy power armour or Bolter, nor are they given gene enhancements or the Sueseed. They are regular, bog standard humans with all the flaws and failings that humans have and yet, in a universe filled with countless horrors from ancient machine robots to hideous giant insects, from angry green fungi to monstrosities from beyond the veil they hold the line.
They die in countless billions and yet still they hold and THAT is what makes them amazing.

IG would be really cool if this was the case, but it isn't. Everyone is pushing to advocate IG as just as strong (or nearly as strong, as in the game) as everyone else, which makes them pretty pointless.

I do not want to root for the 'underdog' IG at all when they are not actually meaningfully underdog to begin with. If you want my sympathy points for how heroic IG are when the normal little guy makes a stand against the monsters of the galaxy, they must actually be outmatched first.

This is a key reason why the original Dawn of War was so horrible - the raw statlines were so similar everyone was just reskinned IG - and it really kills the grimdark for me. If you want 'humanity feth yeah' and your everyday guy expecting to cut down the horrors of the galaxy with his flashlight, you have come to the wrong setting. Those days were twenty thousand years ago.

Necron gauss weapons reduce armor saves by 1 and AV by 2. The new values are used for weapon AP and armor penetration.
Its a weapon that causes molecules to disintegrate; the current system doesn't really represent that.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:


And yet, when it comes down to the crunch Marines have utterly amazing rules and entire supplements dedicated to them and are the 2nd most powerful army within the game whilst the Guard languish with a Codex that is set during the 3rd and 5th editions and has only one unit that is actually worth its points. And yet still the Marine players howl and whine and demand more.

For the Vindicator: Have you seen that massive Siege Shield?

40k's lore is not fair. SM are stronger than Guardsmen. That is just how it is. In fact, they are not even playing in the same ballpark. Dealing with that comes with accepting the IG faction.

Whether IG units are overcosted or not is a separate matter (in many cases, they are overcosted indeed), but every unit in your codex is by far more powerful compared to just about everyone else than it is in the lore, whether we compare to marines or necrons or tyranids or eldar, so I can't have much sympathy for your units feeling like their stats are too low.

Much like Dr. Manhattan and Superman, having someone play on a whole different field compared most others does not make for bad lore, it just looks like it triggers envy... (And Marines are far from that strong). Sure, many Marine books are badly written but that is just GW hiring bad authors, not the Marine design being poor.

 master of ordinance wrote:
the Guardsmen are depicted as basic grunt humans who go out into the cold and unforgiving universe to fight on the front line. They are not given any fancy power armour or Bolter, nor are they given gene enhancements or the Sueseed. They are regular, bog standard humans with all the flaws and failings that humans have and yet, in a universe filled with countless horrors from ancient machine robots to hideous giant insects, from angry green fungi to monstrosities from beyond the veil they hold the line.
They die in countless billions and yet still they hold and THAT is what makes them amazing.

IG would be really cool if this was the case, but it isn't. Everyone is pushing to advocate IG as just as strong (or nearly as strong, as in the game) as everyone else, which makes them pretty pointless.

I do not want to root for the 'underdog' IG at all when they are not actually meaningfully underdog to begin with. If you want my sympathy points for how heroic IG are when the normal little guy makes a stand against the monsters of the galaxy, they must actually be outmatched first.

This is a key reason why the original Dawn of War was so horrible - the raw statlines were so similar everyone was just reskinned IG - and it really kills the grimdark for me. If you want 'humanity feth yeah' and your everyday guy expecting to cut down the horrors of the galaxy with his flashlight, you have come to the wrong setting. Those days were twenty thousand years ago.

Space marines are in the same ballpark. Marines die to shotguns 11% of the time they are hit by them.

And there aren't nearly enough marines in the lore to matter anyway.

Martel732 wrote:


And there aren't nearly enough marines in the lore to matter anyway.

Irrelevant. This is a skirmish game that rarely has more than 50 soldiers per side, not a galaxy strategic command game.

Martel732 wrote:
Space marines are in the same ballpark. Marines die to shotguns 11% of the time they are hit by them.

See, this is exactly what I meant.

See, I don't everything being so powerful that humans have no chance of kicking their asses, merely that they're at a disadvantage, its why normal humans will lose to normal Marines more often than not, but it also explains why the more competent and the occasional lucky guy gets a kill on stuff like Marines. Meanwhile Orks tactics means they're vulnerable to the most Guard regiments fight, hence why they can on equal numbers and generally win or not get stomped. I don't view humans as being those fumbling idiots that always lose while their weapons tickle their foe. For that matter, I am not fond of the ''underdog'' status of human in the setting, and I'd much rather see them being to kick ass but having to make efforts for it rather than effortlessly kill everything (Marines) or being effortlessly killed by everything (Ash vision, I think)

Edit: Except overpowered artillery <3

 Ashiraya wrote:

Martel732 wrote:


And there aren't nearly enough marines in the lore to matter anyway.

Irrelevant. This is a skirmish game that rarely has more than 50 soldiers per side, not a galaxy strategic command game.

Martel732 wrote:
Space marines are in the same ballpark. Marines die to shotguns 11% of the time they are hit by them.

See, this is exactly what I meant.

And a Guardsman dies to that shotty 50% of the time, or even more so if it is a super special Marine one.

My point was not to say that the Imperial Guard should be blatantly over powered like certain factions but that for once I would actually like to have a sodding chance rather than having the setting up of my army feel like a very brief display of models I do not even know why I painted because by turn three 90% of them will have been packed up again.
Right now playing Guard is like playing with all the good fluff removed and only the bad fluff used to design the crunch. We get wasted by anything even vaguely competitive.

"We get wasted by anything even vaguely competitive."

And yet you are more efficient against the best weapon in the game: the scatterlaser.

I negated your statement in 10 seconds.

And a guardsmen with any kind of cover is far more efficient than a marine against all kinds of weapon systems.

 Bobthehero wrote:
being effortlessly killed by everything (Ash vision, I think)

Being effortlessly stomped by almost everything makes it all the more noteworthy when a human hero breaks that trend.

See Ollanius Pius. He would be meaningless if everyone expected him to go up against Horus because 'he stood a decent chance of winning, so why wouldn't he?'

Not a decent chance, especially not with the powers of the 4 gods and all that.

I don't expect a guardsman to just go bayonet Abaddon in the face, either.

It was an example. I struggle to be interested or care if IG defeat those oh so dangerous monsters that everyone expected them to defeat zzzzzz oh look how heroic they are, normal humans beating the astronomical odds (50-50!!!!!) and killing that alien monster wow so human spirit and very determination wins through!!one!

Seriously though, on a soldier-per-soldier (and tank-per-tank) basis, IG should be a little bit behind Orks and far behind things like Necrons and Eldar, because that is their role - partially because they are many, and partially because grimdark setting where humanity is losing.

That is what I think. Normal humans are the only real metric of comparison we have, so it makes the entire setting seem more dangerous.

Martel732 wrote:"We get wasted by anything even vaguely competitive."

And yet you are more efficient against the best weapon in the game: the scatterlaser.

I negated your statement in 10 seconds.

And a guardsmen with any kind of cover is far more efficient than a marine against all kinds of weapon systems.

Martel, really? The Scatterlaser? Of all the even vaguely useful things you had to pick from you chose: The other Heavy Bolter.

Ashiraya wrote:It was an example. I struggle to be interested or care if IG defeat those oh so dangerous monsters that everyone expected them to defeat zzzzzz oh look how heroic they are, normal humans beating the astronomical odds (50-50!!!!!) and killing that alien monster wow so human spirit and very determination wins through!!one!

Seriously though, on a soldier-per-soldier (and tank-per-tank) basis, IG should be a little bit behind Orks and far behind things like Necrons and Eldar, because that is their role - partially because they are many, and partially because grimdark setting where humanity is losing.

That is what I think. Normal humans are the only real metric of comparison we have, so it makes the entire setting seem more dangerous.

Oh I agree, if Imperial Guardsmen where suddenly playing wack-a-mole in melee with Marines then something would have gone so terribly wrong that I would stop playing the faction entirely.

What I am on about is my strength - amassed firepower - being utterly laughable because even FRFSRF Lasgun units at close range is usually utterly pointless.

I don't think the problem is that Lasguns are worthless. The problem is their big guns are useless.

I am fine with Guardsmen being much stronger in the game than in the lore (the lore is basically unplayable as a game anyway, outside of the RPGs) as long as people stop confusing the two.




And points costs are naturally non-existent in the lore so go wild there. In other words, I'd be 100% fine with it if you took the high price of those Rough Riders and

But they're not much stronger, they fit what you said, a bit weaker than orks, a lot weaker than Eldars and Necrons

Eldar Guardians are 9 ppm, Guardsmen are 5. We seem to be having different thoughts of 'a lot'.

I am thinking more of the RPG where lasguns can't really hurt Marines at all.

Of course you did.

Martel732 wrote:
"We get wasted by anything even vaguely competitive."

And yet you are more efficient against the best weapon in the game: the scatterlaser.

I negated your statement in 10 seconds.

And a guardsmen with any kind of cover is far more efficient than a marine against all kinds of weapon systems.

Have you ever witnessed a guard vs eldar battle?
Theyre painful to watch...

 STG wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
"We get wasted by anything even vaguely competitive."

And yet you are more efficient against the best weapon in the game: the scatterlaser.

I negated your statement in 10 seconds.

And a guardsmen with any kind of cover is far more efficient than a marine against all kinds of weapon systems.

Have you ever witnessed a guard vs eldar battle?
Theyre painful to watch...

They go a lot better than BA vs Eldar. Or CSM vs Eldar. Or Ork vs Eldar. You have way more wounds to give and way more firepower being thrown down field.

"Martel, really? The Scatterlaser? Of all the even vaguely useful things you had to pick from you chose: The other Heavy Bolter. "

I don't think you really have a grasp of how this game works at all. The scatterlaser is a huge reason the Eldar are what they are. Arguably the single biggest reason. It's a troop weapon that kills IK on the side at 36".

And FRFSRF/misfortune combo is better than anything in the BA, Ork, or CSM codices.

Martel732 wrote:

 STG wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
"We get wasted by anything even vaguely competitive."

And yet you are more efficient against the best weapon in the game: the scatterlaser.

I negated your statement in 10 seconds.

And a guardsmen with any kind of cover is far more efficient than a marine against all kinds of weapon systems.

Have you ever witnessed a guard vs eldar battle?
Theyre painful to watch...

They go a lot better than BA vs Eldar. Or CSM vs Eldar. Or Ork vs Eldar. You have way more wounds to give and way more firepower being thrown down field.

"Martel, really? The Scatterlaser? Of all the even vaguely useful things you had to pick from you chose: The other Heavy Bolter. "

I don't think you really have a grasp of how this game works at all. The scatterlaser is a huge reason the Eldar are what they are. Arguably the single biggest reason. It's a troop weapon that kills IK on the side at 36".

And FRFSRF/misfortune combo is better than anything in the BA, Ork, or CSM codices.

Martel, I'm sorry, but no. HECK NO. Guard are hands down worse than CSM, BA, or DE. Guard gets crushed pretty hard. Sure, they have some nifty tricks, but they run into the typical problems of vehicles dying in droves. Really the only competitive options Guard have are FW, and even those are iffy.

That's why there's all those Guard players winning the BAO and LVO. Oh wait.

Guard are substantially better than BA, CSM, and Orks. It's still a shooting edition and guard to it better than any of those lists.

None of these lists are winning BAO and LVO, so that was meaningless to bring up.

As I said, FRFSRF with misfortune is more effective than anything those other lists can even dream of. It gets better with prescience/misfortune.

Martel732 wrote:
Guard are substantially better than BA, CSM, and Orks. It's still a shooting edition and guard to it better than any of those lists.

None of these lists are winning BAO and LVO, so that was meaningless to bring up.

As I said, FRFSRF with misfortune is more effective than anything those other lists can even dream of. It gets better with prescience/misfortune.

Not really. I've played several Guard players and never had to worry about their shooting. About the most dangerous things they have are the Wyverns and Basilisks and Pask with the Punisher. Even then, they're so damn weak to the hullpoints you always bring up that it's not even funny. Tac marines with krak grenades destroy 99% of their vehicles, or one guy with a Powerfist can crack most Leman Russes.

 jreilly89 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Guard are substantially better than BA, CSM, and Orks. It's still a shooting edition and guard to it better than any of those lists.

None of these lists are winning BAO and LVO, so that was meaningless to bring up.

As I said, FRFSRF with misfortune is more effective than anything those other lists can even dream of. It gets better with prescience/misfortune.

Not really. I've played several Guard players and never had to worry about their shooting. About the most dangerous things they have are the Wyverns and Basilisks and Pask with the Punisher. Even then, they're so damn weak to the hullpoints you always bring up that it's not even funny. Tac marines with krak grenades destroy 99% of their vehicles, or one guy with a Powerfist can crack most Leman Russes.

You aren't destroying anything with krak grenades anymore. Maybe you are playing the wrong guard players, because they can table me a turn or two after Eldar.

Okay, Here's my go, I know Marines aren't really popular with non marine players, but they're the Army i know best and play most.. So That's my choice.

All Rules here are additions to Current rules unless stated to replace rules.

First Things First: CHAPTER TACTICS APPLY TO ALL MODELS IN A DETACHMENT THAT HAS CHOSEN TO CHOOSE A CHAPTER TACTIC!
To be clear, To Gain Chapter Tactics Benefits, You must have at least Unit in the army that Has the Chapter Tactics Special Rule. However, Once Chosen the Chapter Tactics Special Rules Apply Freely to the whole Detachment where Relevant.
This is to say a Detachment made up entirely of Vehicles may not choose a Chapter Tactics Choice as no model has the Chapter Tactics Special Rule, However a Detachment containing a Techmarine (which Has Chapter Tractics) and two Predators (That do not) May Choose a Set of Chapter Tactics and The Entire Detachment will gain the CT special rules.

Weapons:
Bolt pistol- S4AP5 for being a smaller bolt shell, Gains Rapid fire, Range increased to 18 inches (Because it is still a Bolt shell!), Gains the Close Combat Weapon Special Rule, May be fired in close combat, Model forefits all attack bonuses to fire a single shot at the Pistols Stats. (Units with the Gunslinger Special Rule may fire one shot per pistol)
Bolt Gun- Changed from Rapid Fire to Assault Salvo 2/3 with no range reduction if moving. s4 ap4
Heavy Bolter- S5 AP4 heavy 4. Gains the "Brace for Fire" Special rule.

"Brace for Fire" - Any model carrying a heavy Bolter. (Walkers, Vehicles, and monstrous creatures of every type included) can choose to Brace for Fire, This allows for a steadier firing platform. Brace for Fire confers +1 BS and +1 attack until the end of the turn. The Model must have not moved in any way in the Movement or Psychic phases of the turn in which it is declared, and may not be voluntarily moved after Brace for Fire is declared. This includes Declaring Go to Ground, any friendly psychic powers, or Running/charging even if the unit did not fire its heavy weapon. (Example: the Heavy Bolter on a model in a tactical squad has declared Brace for Fire, but does not fire its heavy bolter, instead firing a pistol. This model must remain stationary and may not run or charge for any reason.) Brace for Fire's Restrictions expand to all Space Marine vehicles, including Super Heavy Vehicles and GMCs. and may not be declared by Flyers unless they began the turn in hover mode and have not moved. Relentless, Slow and Purposeful, and ANY other rule that allows movement and shooting are overridden by Brace for Fire.

Plasma Pistol: No stat change may not be used as an Extra Close Combat weapon, but May be fired in close combat, Model forefits all attack bonuses to fire a single shot at the Pistols Stats. (Units with the Gunslinger Special Rule may fire one shot per pistol) if a model firing a Plasma Pistol in Close Combat suffers a gets hot result, All models (Friendly and Enemy) in base to base contact with the firing model must make a Gets Hot! Save.
Plasma Gun: Dual Firing Modes. Mode 1, Standard no change to current weapon stats. Mode 2: Safety Disengage: Plasma Gun gains +1 shot, gains Detonate (See below)
Plasma Canon: 3 firing modes. Mode 1: Standard, s7ap2 heavy 1 concentrated shot. Minimum range 12 inches. Mode 2 "Normal" S7ap2 heavy 1 blast. Mode 3 Defused blast: S5ap3 heavy 1 large blast Detonate.

Detonate Special Rule: Infantry, MCs, GMCs: Any plasma weapon with this special rule in place Get's Hot now gets hot on the roll of a 1 or 2. a detonation roll of a 2 confers the standard saves for gets hot and the shot still happens. On the Detonation roll of a 1, Model must pass an initiative check to "Disgard the weapon" if passed the weapon is disgarded for the rest of the game and standard "gets hot" save may be taken. If the Test is failed, the weapon explodes in the users hands dealing a single s2ap3 hit to the model carrying the weapon.
Vehicles/Walkers and Super heavies of all types: These machines contain the necessary cooling systems to prevent a catastrophic failure of the weapon resulting in the complete loss of the unit. On the Detonation roll of a 2 Standard gets hot rules apply. on the roll of a 1 roll a d6 on a 4+ the Weapon is still functional but may not fire a round with the "Detonation" Special rule, if this roll is failed on a 1 2 or 3, the vehicle suffers the Standard gets hot consequences and the firing weapon suffers a Weapon Destroyed result.

Combat Knife: S user AP - Equiped as standard Wargear for all Infantry not wearing Centurion Warsuits or Terminator Armor of Any Kind.
Chainsword S user AP 4
Heavy Chainsword: S user AP4 (Shred)
Eviscerator: S +1, AP 2, Fleshbane, Armorbane, Shred, 2 handed, Unwieldy.

Power Weapons:
No Change

Marines: Basic Stats.
Scouts: S4 T3 W1 Sv 4+
Marines: S5 T4 W1 Sv 3+ (Base Stat line for All Marine infantry units)
Assault Marines: Gain Single Minded Focus.
Veteran Sergeant Upgrade: S5 T4 W1 Sv 3+ BS +1 WS+1 May Exchange Power Armor for Artificer Armor
Vanguard Veterans Gain Single Minded Focus +1WS
Sternguard Veterans: +1BS
Captain S5 T4 W1 Sv 3+ BS +1 WS+1 I +1
Chapter Master S5 T4 W1 Sv 3+ BS +1 WS+1 I+1
Librarian S5 T4 W1 Sv 3+ WS+1
Chaplain S5 T4 W1 Sv 3+ WS+1
Terminators: S5 T5 W2 Sv 3+ BS5 WS5
Tactical Terminators: BS +1 May Fire non Heavy Weapons at full BS during Overwatch
Assault Terminators: WS +1


Single Minded Focus: Any Unit containing at least One model with Single Minded Focus does not suffer the effects of Disordered Charges for Multi Assaulting, Moving Through Terrain/Cover, or those Imposed by Drop Pod Assault.


Scout Armor: Confers a 4+ Save, the Infiltrate special rule, models equipped with Scout armor are t3
Power Armor Confers a 3+ Save,
Artificer Armor: Confers a 2+ Save and +1 toughness
Terminator Armor: confers a 2+ Save, +1 Toughness, +1 wound, the Brace for Fire(All Weapons)
Cataphractii Terminator Armor: Confers a 2+ Save, 4+ invulnerable +1 Toughness, +1 wound, the Brace for Fire(All Weapons)
Centurion Warsuit: Minus 1 Initiative, Confers a 2+ Save, +1 Toughness, +1 wound, as well as Feel No Pain (6+), May not be used with a Space Marine Bike, Jump Pack, and may not be equiped by any Librarian or unit with the Psyker, Sorcerer, or Brotherhood of Psykers special rules.
( all of the above changes are made in addition to the armor's basic rules)

All units with these armor choices in their standard Wargear Lists have the modifiers built into their standard profile. (Stats added to invidual armor, for HQs/Characters that can choose their armor )

New Units:
Elite 1-3 models per Elites Slot (Unique
Infantry (Independent Character With Restrictions)
Must be Attached to a Squad at Deployment, Becomes a member of that unit for the purposes of all special rules, May not Voluntarily leave the unit it is assigned unless all models other than the apothecary in that unit are destroyed. At this point the apothecary may join any valid unit not already containing an apothecary. For the purposes of kill points where they are a victory condition for the game, Each apothecary counts as a separate kill point. And are treated as an Independant character for the purposes of kill points, regardless of the status as part of the unit they have joined.
Squad Joining Restrictions:
May Join Any of the following.
Tactical Squads
Devastator Squads
Assault Squads
Sternguard Veteran Squads
Vanguard Veteran Squads
All Terminator Squads
If Joining a Bike Squad, a Bike must be purchased for the Apothecary
If Joining an Assault Squad, if said Squad as Jump Packs, a jump pack must be purchased separately for the Apothecary.
May not Join Independent Characters who are not themselves attached to a Listed Unit.
Apothecary: Base Marine Stats.
Wargear
Power Armor (May upgrade to Artificer Armor, May take Terminator Armor only if Attached to a terminator Squad, May never Equip a Centurion Warsuit)
Bolt Pistol
Chainsword
Narthicum
Combat Shield
May choose from the Space Marine Melee and Special Weapons list. (May not Equip 2 handed weapons)

Drop Pods: Gain Death from Orbit, Orbital Assault.
Death from Orbit: The Drop Pod may forfeit the use of the Inertial Guidance System and attempt to make a Targeted drop on an enemy unit. On the Turn in which the Drop Pod arrives Place a Large Blast template on the board and roll for Scatter, if there are any enemy Units under the Blast Template after the scatter a Death from Orbit attack occurs. For Infantry an Initiative Check is Forced for each model under the template, If it is failed the Model is hit with a Str 8 ap 4 hit with the Barrage special rule. If a Vehicle is hit under this template, a Tank Shock is performed with the Ordinance and Barrage special rules.

Drop Pod Assault: Add the following. Once the Drop pod Arrives, Any Occupants may now Disembark and move and shoot as normal, all models count as moved for the purposes of shooting. On the Turn that the Drop Pod arrives all units inside may Assault on the, Ignoring the restrictions of Assaulting from Reserves. Assault distance is halved on the turn they arrive and any successful charge is counted as disorderly.


All Heavy Weapons may be Fired at BS3 at half range and Snapshots at full range after moving. (This does not negate or remove the restrictions from overwatch, or the Hard to Hit rule for Flyers)



So.. uh Yeah thats my suggestions for now (They really need to be fleshed out m ore, but my hands hurt Maaaybe ill work on this and flesh it out for Proposed rules for Marines.

PS: These rules are intended for any and all Marines that use these same basic entries (or their Codex Equiviants) IE Codex: Space Marines, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves and CSM

Are we back to the "who's worse?" slapfight?

Martel732 wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Guard are substantially better than BA, CSM, and Orks. It's still a shooting edition and guard to it better than any of those lists.

None of these lists are winning BAO and LVO, so that was meaningless to bring up.

As I said, FRFSRF with misfortune is more effective than anything those other lists can even dream of. It gets better with prescience/misfortune.

Not really. I've played several Guard players and never had to worry about their shooting. About the most dangerous things they have are the Wyverns and Basilisks and Pask with the Punisher. Even then, they're so damn weak to the hullpoints you always bring up that it's not even funny. Tac marines with krak grenades destroy 99% of their vehicles, or one guy with a Powerfist can crack most Leman Russes.

You aren't destroying anything with krak grenades anymore. Maybe you are playing the wrong guard players, because they can table me a turn or two after Eldar.

I know, the krak grenades FAQ makes me both happy and sad. And what Guard players are you playing? At least with Guard you can kill them efficiently, either glancing their vehicles to death easily or sweeping advance. Eldar have rerolling saves, doom, plenty of other BS compared to Guard.

The original thread comes down to one's interpretation of the fluff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jreilly89 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Guard are substantially better than BA, CSM, and Orks. It's still a shooting edition and guard to it better than any of those lists.

None of these lists are winning BAO and LVO, so that was meaningless to bring up.

As I said, FRFSRF with misfortune is more effective than anything those other lists can even dream of. It gets better with prescience/misfortune.

Not really. I've played several Guard players and never had to worry about their shooting. About the most dangerous things they have are the Wyverns and Basilisks and Pask with the Punisher. Even then, they're so damn weak to the hullpoints you always bring up that it's not even funny. Tac marines with krak grenades destroy 99% of their vehicles, or one guy with a Powerfist can crack most Leman Russes.

You aren't destroying anything with krak grenades anymore. Maybe you are playing the wrong guard players, because they can table me a turn or two after Eldar.

I know, the krak grenades FAQ makes me both happy and sad. And what Guard players are you playing? At least with Guard you can kill them efficiently, either glancing their vehicles to death easily or sweeping advance. Eldar have rerolling saves, doom, plenty of other BS compared to Guard.

"

Yes, that's why I last longer against Guard than I do Eldar. But I can't kill enough. Because they have so much on the table and lists like BA, Orks and CSM are terrible at shooting. I'm playing evidently nasty Guard players. Remember that regular grav guns are pretty stinky vs Guard, but I'll have a bunch of them in my list.

Martel732 wrote:
The original thread comes down to one's interpretation of the fluff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jreilly89 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Guard are substantially better than BA, CSM, and Orks. It's still a shooting edition and guard to it better than any of those lists.

None of these lists are winning BAO and LVO, so that was meaningless to bring up.

As I said, FRFSRF with misfortune is more effective than anything those other lists can even dream of. It gets better with prescience/misfortune.

Not really. I've played several Guard players and never had to worry about their shooting. About the most dangerous things they have are the Wyverns and Basilisks and Pask with the Punisher. Even then, they're so damn weak to the hullpoints you always bring up that it's not even funny. Tac marines with krak grenades destroy 99% of their vehicles, or one guy with a Powerfist can crack most Leman Russes.

You aren't destroying anything with krak grenades anymore. Maybe you are playing the wrong guard players, because they can table me a turn or two after Eldar.

I know, the krak grenades FAQ makes me both happy and sad. And what Guard players are you playing? At least with Guard you can kill them efficiently, either glancing their vehicles to death easily or sweeping advance. Eldar have rerolling saves, doom, plenty of other BS compared to Guard.

"

Yes, that's why I last longer against Guard than I do Eldar. But I can't kill enough. Because they have so much on the table and lists like BA, Orks and CSM are terrible at shooting. I'm playing evidently nasty Guard players. Remember that regular grav guns are pretty stinky vs Guard, but I'll have a bunch of them in my list.

Just ignore Martel,

He's the real deal real hardcore BA player. All we know is that he owns some sort of arrangement of BA models, but doesn't tell anyone what he owns. He's stated before that doesn't want to buy more models, change tactics or use any advice given to him. And god forbid he starts collecting a new army.

His meta is essentially one of the 7 depths of hell that Dante himself has to trudge through. Every opponent he plays against are WAAC Tau and sometimes Eldar players.

The devil himself is a Riptide for Martel.

Sometimes when the moon is just right, Martel will espouse some of his good old complainy wisdom about the state of 40k and his beloved Blood Angels. He's gone as far as to say that Guard are better than his poor Angels even...

You'd think his roof in a terrible state of disrepair, there are full cups, vases, pots, and jugs everywhere. But the roof is fine. The sky may be falling but the roof is fine. Those vessels are full of his tears.

Martel is rather ornery. He'll beat a dead horse for days if the mood strikes him right. But he's honest about it. Just beware if he enters your thread.

I have to hand it to him, he's become a master at his craft. Maybe he'll offer lessons in misery wallowing.

Can an IG player be WAAC? Or merely effective?

I'm open to any and all BA tactics advice. It's just usually coming from marine players who aren't used to playing with the BA model selection. Which I basically have everything for. For what that matters, lol.

Martel732 wrote:
Can an IG player be WAAC? Or merely effective?

I'm open to any and all BA tactics advice. It's just usually coming from marine players who aren't used to playing with the BA model selection.

Buddy there's no helping you. No creative criticisms or feedback from you. Just complains and what you think are witty retorts that further act to cement your viewpoint. The lights at your pity party are so fething bright that you've been blinded by them.

I hope this site is where you vent. If this is the attitude you bring to the FLGS then at least do the other gamers the courtesy of supplying them earplugs.

Naaris wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Can an IG player be WAAC? Or merely effective?

I'm open to any and all BA tactics advice. It's just usually coming from marine players who aren't used to playing with the BA model selection.

Buddy there's no helping you. No creative criticisms or feedback from you. Just complains and what you think are witty retorts that further act to cement your viewpoint. The lights at your pity party are so fething bright that you've been blinded by them.

I hope this site is where you vent. If this is the attitude you bring to the FLGS then at least do the other gamers the courtesy of supplying them earplugs.

So you don't actually have any suggestions? Okay.

The FLGS guys are trying to table me as fast as they can. They expect some complaining.



Anyhoo, any movement closer to fanfic marines means less on the table and less plastic GW is selling you. Personally, I think that DE use this treatment a lot. I think DE should actually have nastier weapons than regular Eldar. They are dark, after all.

If there was any justice in the fluff, the moment that Commissar Cain (or another Hero of the Imperium) starts cutting down Chaos Space Marines or Normals, he would be laid low by a sniper's bullet.

 carldooley wrote:
If there was any justice in the fluff, the moment that Commissar Cain (or another Hero of the Imperium) starts cutting down Chaos Space Marines or Normals, he would be laid low by a sniper's bullet.

I love the smell fluffy justice in the morning! Smells like head shots!

Naaris wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
The original thread comes down to one's interpretation of the fluff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jreilly89 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Guard are substantially better than BA, CSM, and Orks. It's still a shooting edition and guard to it better than any of those lists.

None of these lists are winning BAO and LVO, so that was meaningless to bring up.

As I said, FRFSRF with misfortune is more effective than anything those other lists can even dream of. It gets better with prescience/misfortune.

Not really. I've played several Guard players and never had to worry about their shooting. About the most dangerous things they have are the Wyverns and Basilisks and Pask with the Punisher. Even then, they're so damn weak to the hullpoints you always bring up that it's not even funny. Tac marines with krak grenades destroy 99% of their vehicles, or one guy with a Powerfist can crack most Leman Russes.

You aren't destroying anything with krak grenades anymore. Maybe you are playing the wrong guard players, because they can table me a turn or two after Eldar.

I know, the krak grenades FAQ makes me both happy and sad. And what Guard players are you playing? At least with Guard you can kill them efficiently, either glancing their vehicles to death easily or sweeping advance. Eldar have rerolling saves, doom, plenty of other BS compared to Guard.

"

Yes, that's why I last longer against Guard than I do Eldar. But I can't kill enough. Because they have so much on the table and lists like BA, Orks and CSM are terrible at shooting. I'm playing evidently nasty Guard players. Remember that regular grav guns are pretty stinky vs Guard, but I'll have a bunch of them in my list.

Just ignore Martel,

He's the real deal real hardcore BA player. All we know is that he owns some sort of arrangement of BA models, but doesn't tell anyone what he owns. He's stated before that doesn't want to buy more models, change tactics or use any advice given to him. And god forbid he starts collecting a new army.

His meta is essentially one of the 7 depths of hell that Dante himself has to trudge through. Every opponent he plays against are WAAC Tau and sometimes Eldar players.

The devil himself is a Riptide for Martel.

Sometimes when the moon is just right, Martel will espouse some of his good old complainy wisdom about the state of 40k and his beloved Blood Angels. He's gone as far as to say that Guard are better than his poor Angels even...

You'd think his roof in a terrible state of disrepair, there are full cups, vases, pots, and jugs everywhere. But the roof is fine. The sky may be falling but the roof is fine. Those vessels are full of his tears.

Martel is rather ornery. He'll beat a dead horse for days if the mood strikes him right. But he's honest about it. Just beware if he enters your thread.

I have to hand it to him, he's become a master at his craft. Maybe he'll offer lessons in misery wallowing.

lols! rofl! lmao!

This topic looks like it may have reached the end of its natural life.

Do people want to continue? If so, please stick to the topic and stop sledging at each other.

Otherwise I shall have to lock the thread.

Dark Eldar would have a much greater speed than they currently do.

They would have some capacity to move quicker and still assault.

Going crazy? Passengers could fire full BS after Jinking. Passengers could disembark from a vehicle that moved Cruising Speed and still assault. The webway portal would be an upgrade available to any character, and it would cost less. (Optionally, there would be a formation where every character received a WWP for free...that would make the most sense for representing a WWP assault on the tabletop.)

I don't think that's a realistic list of expectations; just what it would be like if DE on the table looked like DE in the fluff.

Tau are in a pretty good place. If the FSE players wanted to, they could easily play closer to fluff by carrying over the restrictions of the previous supplement and not include Shadowsun or any Ethereals in our lists.

Or Stormsurges, or Ghostkeels, but the breachers are excellent for the FS theory of war.

" NOTE: This thread is NOT for Tau, Eldar, Space Marine, Space Wolf, Necron, etc rules hate, OR for current Chaos Marine, Blood Angel, Ork, Dark Eldar, Sisters of Battle rules hate.

Just trying to be real clear on the topic. I'm not mandating that this thread has to be positive or negative, but there are a whole lot of topics to choose from for the above."

It took 3 pages for a thread with this statement at the top to devolve into the same group of dedicated complainers doing the very thing stated - really explicitly I thought - to be off topic.

I think maybe if "stay on topic" isn't a principle rule of the forum, it ought to be, and if it is, it ought to be a bit more readily enforced than the usual closing of the thread that's gotten off topic.

what I said above wasn't rules hate. The FSE specifically says that it is an offshoot of the Tau Empire. It follows therefore that the FSE wouldn't have all the newest toys that are available to the Empire. The logical step is to encourage the players themselves to embrace the limits placed on their faction, even if the supplement itself places no such restrictions if playing in a fluffy manner.

BrianDavion wrote:

There would be a single event in the fluff where the forces of Khorne absolutely DEMOLISH the Grey Knights.

we're talking fluffy rules not "what fluff would you like to see so you could see your codex destroy that codex you dislike"

Yes, we are. Please see the vast majority of my post.

All bolter weapons get to re roll to wounds . I mean, they are giant, exploding bullets after all

If every faction got fluffy rules, they'd all be a lot more fun to play. Not to mention more balanced.

I think something more realistic for the IG would be having weaker armor, but their infantry units being at a cheaper prize.

Also (now I'm talking about all armies), it would be good having some kind of a boost in leadership when a certain amount of allied units are in X" distance, giving a feeling of "I feel comfortable having so much of my kind aound" or something like that

3ed v2 Chaos on crack!
I'd bring back bonus for sacred numbers. Old chain axes.
Skarbrand and kharn would be in my Daemonkin formations.
Daemon Primarch rules and models.
Space wolf type sprues, allowing to build real chosen, as well fabius bile getting an update as well as having his modified Marines
More options for each gods Marines! (Model kits) + terminator conversion bits
For the love of the blood god, some new berserkers!!!
Full list for cypher and an update.

theQuanz wrote:
3ed v2 Chaos on crack!
I'd bring back bonus for sacred numbers. Old chain axes.
Skarbrand and kharn would be in my Daemonkin formations.
Daemon Primarch rules and models.
Space wolf type sprues, allowing to build real chosen, as well fabius bile getting an update as well as having his modified Marines
More options for each gods Marines! (Model kits) + terminator conversion bits
For the love of the blood god, some new berserkers!!!
Full list for cypher and an update.

Yes yes yes, daemon Angron would be awesoooome.

Honestly, the only real changes I can think of for the Harlequins would be buffing the Holo-suit invulnerable save to a 4++ or a 3++ to bring it more in line with the depictions of it's effectiveness in the fluff, and including a couple more units and characters - specifically, the Great Harlequin, Mimes and Master Mime.

Everything else about them is about as fluffy as can be.

SoB:
+1 S for all sisters, due to the power armour
Allow AoF every turn
Grant Exorcists a secondary profile (D6 small blasts, maybe S5 AP4, ignores cover?)
Something similar to chapter tactics to represent the different Orders Militant
Martyrdom variant for all sisters (as the squad loses models, their staying power increases)

AM:
Combat squad-esque fire team rules
Different organisations (PDF, veteran platoons etc)
+1 BS (benefits snap-shots) if in cover / gone to ground
Unlimited range on vox-casters
Purely a selfish one: plastic models of old models (vostroyans et al.)

Remmick_005 wrote:


AM:
Combat squad-esque fire team rules
Different organisations (PDF, veteran platoons etc)
+1 BS (benefits snap-shots) if in cover / gone to ground
Unlimited range on vox-casters
Purely a selfish one: plastic models of old models (vostroyans et al.)

can you write the rules for the next codex?
also some benefit for when massed lasguns are fired in a volley or something like that would be appropriate and fluffy.
Marbo?

 STG wrote:

Remmick_005 wrote:


AM:
Combat squad-esque fire team rules
Different organisations (PDF, veteran platoons etc)
+1 BS (benefits snap-shots) if in cover / gone to ground
Unlimited range on vox-casters
Purely a selfish one: plastic models of old models (vostroyans et al.)

can you write the rules for the next codex?
also some benefit for when massed lasguns are fired in a volley or something like that would be appropriate and fluffy.
Marbo?

IMO the orders may need a revamp, but massed lasguns, as-is, is more than enough, considering that some set-ups can pump out 150 shots in a single shooting phase, or 100 with pinning
maybe stripped-down rending (6s to-wound cause the owning player to roll a further D6, the result of that is the AP, to a minimum of 3) as an order? "Aim, Fire, Readdress".
I'd love to see 3 types of platoons:
PDF: low cost, recyclable, BS2, heavy / special weapons only in dedicated squads, LD5 (6 for sergeant),
Standard: current codex platoon
Veteran Platoon (because the current Vet squad would never be used in the fluff) Vet command squad (CCS Lite (no advisors, Junior Officer instead of Senior), 1-3 veteran squads, HWs and SWs only in vet squads (no dedicated squad for them)

Another thing would be, in addition to the different platoon types, having different play styles for different planets of origin
Catachans gaining Move Through Cover
Mordians gaining a BS boost for being formed into a firing line
etc

Remmick_005 wrote:

Another thing would be, in addition to the different platoon types, having different play styles for different planets of origin
Catachans gaining Move Through Cover
Mordians gaining a BS boost for being formed into a firing line
etc

Yeah Revamps of all the metal models would be so awesome, so you can take a Catachan, Cadian, Mordian, Steel Legion, Vostroyan, or Valhallan regiment, all in plastic and have play styles/benefits that suit each individual regiment. that would be cool as.

 STG wrote:

Remmick_005 wrote:

Another thing would be, in addition to the different platoon types, having different play styles for different planets of origin
Catachans gaining Move Through Cover
Mordians gaining a BS boost for being formed into a firing line
etc

Yeah Revamps of all the metal models would be so awesome, so you can take a Catachan, Cadian, Mordian, Steel Legion, Vostroyan, or Valhallan regiment, all in plastic and have play styles/benefits that suit each individual regiment. that would be cool as.

Yeah! That way there could finally exist a rule that represents the diversity the IG regiments deserve in the rules

I'd somehow see orks getting a shopping list worth of special rules to add to them being ferocious melee combatants in the fluf.

Thousand sons Rubric marines would probably get a 2+ invul save as long as their sorcerer is alive based on the fact that it is practically impossible to kill a rubric marine by conventional means as long as there's a sorceror that's able to knit the armour back together.

Now that would be a REALLY interesting unit on the table. It might even be worth its points cost!