The Ork Warbuggies/Wartrakks date back to GorkaMorka, but the old Trukks were eventually replaced.

To my knowledge, this is the oldest kit still actively sold by GW, but, I could be wrong.

What else dates back 8+ years?

Depends on whether or not you mean the mold but I think most models dating back to 2nd edition would be just as old as the Gorkamorka models.

This includes:

Abaddon the Despoiler
the Current Kharn the Betrayer (soon to be replaced)
Fabius Bile
Ahriman
Almost the entire SoB line save for the Exorcist and Penitent Engine
Dante, Tycho, Corbulo, Mephiston
Azrael and Ezekiel
Swooping Hawks
Warp Spiders
and an assortment of other models that just never saw a replacement.

Note that these may technically be younger than the GorkaMorka models but only by a few months.

How about the Eldar Jetbikes and Viper?

The oldest Sisters of Battle models were sculpted in 1997.

I think some other stuff is actually older.

How about the Eldar Jetbikes and Viper?

The Jetbikes got a new kit recently.

The Eldar Jetbikes did serve pretty long but just recently got replaced.

Unsure of how old the Vyper is, I don't see pics of it in the 2nd ed codex. However this does remind me that all of the current Codex Phoenix Lords, the Avatar of Khaine, Eldrad (the old mode) and Warlocks are that old too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The 2nd Edition Eldar codex was copyrighted in 1994, so I'm guessing all of the models that appear in it are that old or older.

I think that some of the dark angels characters, notably Ezekiel, are the oldest. I remember them all being released but him, he always seemed to be around.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Vyper was 2nd ed, I've got the wd with that in somewhere. Came out at a similar time to the whfb box with brets and lizardmen.

Was it released with the codex or some time after it though?

In anycase, I can't imagine it'd be that much younger, so I would still put it as older than Gorka Morka due to the Codex being much older.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

This includes:
Almost the entire SoB line save for the Exorcist and Penitent Engine

Half the SoB line is actually about 5-6 years younger than the other half.

The Canoness with a Combi-flamer, a couple of the heavy and special weapon variants and about half the seraphim and foot Sisters were the models originally released for the SoB.

The other Canoness, the reliquaries, half the designs on foot and seraphim, the repentia, vehicles and penitent engines all date to Codex Witchhunters.

Outside of Special Characters or Unique gribblies the 'oldest' functional model is the Ork Warbuggy which dates back to early 2nd edition (not Gorkamorka but well before then.)

As far as 'ranges' go....

CSM are pretty dated, most of their range falling between the Index Astartes articles and Eye of Terror campaign.

Eldar are somewhat dated as well - Warp Spiders are a 2nd ed. hang on, Shining Spears, Guardians and Swooping Hawks are all 3rd ed. codex hang ons, Storm Guardians are EoT relics and the Warlocks are RT/2nd ed relics for the most part. The Vyper is a late 2nd ed. addition - older than SoB though.

Land Raiders, Rhinos and Predators from the SM/CSM range also date back to around this period.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Was it released with the codex or some time after it though?

In anycase, I can't imagine it'd be that much younger, so I would still put it as older than Gorka Morka due to the Codex being much older.

It came out a while after the codex I think, and before gorkamorka I'm 99% sure. I remember really wanting one at the time of release, and finally got around to buying one earlier this year.

Eldar Falcon? Has that been redone since 2E?

Definitely, the Warlocks are ancient, dating back to the 2E Codex.

Don't the Ork Goff Rockers date back to 1st ed (early 90s)?

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Ork-Goff-Rockers

 JamesY wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Was it released with the codex or some time after it though?

In anycase, I can't imagine it'd be that much younger, so I would still put it as older than Gorka Morka due to the Codex being much older.

It came out a while after the codex I think, and before gorkamorka I'm 99% sure. I remember really wanting one at the time of release, and finally got around to buying one earlier this year.

UK White Dwarf 207 had the Vyper iirc.

Sisters of Battle was White Dwarf 212.

Gorkamorka was White Dwarf 214.

Eldar Falcon was White Dwarf 216.

Necrons were White Dwarf 217-218.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

This includes:
Almost the entire SoB line save for the Exorcist and Penitent Engine

Half the SoB line is actually about 5-6 years younger than the other half.

The Canoness with a Combi-flamer, a couple of the heavy and special weapon variants and about half the seraphim and foot Sisters were the models originally released for the SoB.

The other Canoness, the reliquaries, half the designs on foot and seraphim, the repentia, vehicles and penitent engines all date to Codex Witchhunters.

Erm...

Maybe you should have a look on GW's site at what Sororitas models are still available.

Because a lot of that stuff is gone now. Really we're down to the point where pulling any more models would necessitate not being able to take entire special or heavy weapon options. I think the only thing they could possibly remove is one of the two Sister Superiors that are left.

 Pouncey wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

This includes:
Almost the entire SoB line save for the Exorcist and Penitent Engine

Half the SoB line is actually about 5-6 years younger than the other half.

The Canoness with a Combi-flamer, a couple of the heavy and special weapon variants and about half the seraphim and foot Sisters were the models originally released for the SoB.

The other Canoness, the reliquaries, half the designs on foot and seraphim, the repentia, vehicles and penitent engines all date to Codex Witchhunters.

Erm...

Maybe you should have a look on GW's site at what Sororitas models are still available.

Because a lot of that stuff is gone now. Really we're down to the point where pulling any more models would necessitate not being able to take entire special or heavy weapon options. I think the only thing they could possibly remove is one of the two Sister Superiors that are left.

The fact they are not available at the moment does not mean they did not exist. So I will pass on your suggestion to look at GW's webstore because, oddly enough they still exist out there if you know where to look - ebay, trading groups and the like.

Let's not pretend that a downsized range means they never existed. Because you know that to be a lie as do I.

The op does say kits still actively sold by gw, which is probably where pouncey's (rather unnecessarily antagonistically worded) comment came from.

In fact, for comedy value I looked at what is for sale from GW.

Bear in mind that there is a common theme on these products.

Let's quote the 3 sisters one.

This pack contains three Battle Sisters - finely detailed metal miniatures that come in six components, and are supplied with three 25mm round bases. There are nine miniatures available and three random ones will be supplied in each pack.

So the variants are still available and GW acknowledges the fact you will receive random ones.

Let's also acknowledge that any SOB with a helmet is a Witchhunter era release - they were sculpted on the same 'base' model, but they are a newer variant.

LEt's also acknowledge that Storm Bolters are a Witchhunter era release - not in the original release.

So looking at what's available.

Sisters of Battle Squad - random model variants - so a mix of original and Witchhunter era.
Celestine - Witchhunter era.
Canoness - Witchhunter era.
Battle Sisters (3 models) - random variants - mix of original and Witchhunter era.
Heavy Flamer - original.
Superior with Power Sword and Bolter - original.
Repentia - Witchhunter era.
Seraphim with hand flamers - original
Exorcist - witchhunter era
Penitent Engine - Witchhunter era.
Uriah Jacobus - Original
Sister with Heavy Bolter - original.
Sister with Simulacrum Imperialis - Witchhunter Era
Superior with Bolter - original.
Hospitallier - Witchhunter era.
Seraphim 1 - original.
Missionary - original.
Storm Bolter 2 - Witchhunter era.
Flamer 2 - original.
Meltagun 2 - original.

CCM Page of Sisters of Battle - showing the Original releases and the 2004 Witchhunter releases - please note the Witchhunter releases are NEWER than the 3.5 CSM releases and just a few months older than the Eye of Terror releases.

It's also why I put a qualifier "depending" in my first post, as much of what I listed are actually converted into finecast, so technically they're all "new" kits since they're not the original metal models anymore.

The Sororitas stand out because they're still metal, so technically they have had no change since then. The Sister Superior, Heavy Bolter, Melta Gunner and Missionary with Chainsword all date back to then.

The Metal Guardsmen outside of the Vostroyans also date back to around 1996. The DESIGN of the Chimera dates to that time too, but the kit has been recently re-cut at least once if I remember, so it's technically not the same kit.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
UK White Dwarf 207 had the Vyper iirc.
Sisters of Battle was White Dwarf 212.
Gorkamorka was White Dwarf 214.
Eldar Falcon was White Dwarf 216.
Necrons were White Dwarf 217-218.

The Sisters of Battle in WD 212 would be just the basic Sisters squad, before they got many of their options, but the Vyper is older. I think we're down to the Eldar Warlocks.

Some of the Space Wolf special characters go back to late Rogue Trader, 1992 or 1993. I know Blackmane has not been redone but I think the rest have.



"Grr... Arg..."

But if the Warlocks haven't been redone then they win.

Now if you're not confining yourself, there's a lot of models once made by GW now made by others.

Wargames Foundry has their pre-warhammer Historical lines and even some unreleased Rogue Trader models.

Starfleet Wars was the first spaceship combat game and was licenced by GW for a time. The models (including the Super Galactic Dreadnauts) are still in production at Monday Knights. That's like 1979 or so.

But I think the oldest around are Asgard models. It was Citadel's predecessor and had its own space marines and fantasy chaos warriors. Now in production by Alternate Armies.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
UK White Dwarf 207 had the Vyper iirc.
Sisters of Battle was White Dwarf 212.
Gorkamorka was White Dwarf 214.
Eldar Falcon was White Dwarf 216.
Necrons were White Dwarf 217-218.

The Sisters of Battle in WD 212 would be just the basic Sisters squad, before they got many of their options, but the Vyper is older. I think we're down to the Eldar Warlocks.

A lot of the Sisters options came in around 212-214.

In fact I could probably fish out the original issues, if I wanted to sort through some 12+ years of White Dwarfs.

Generally I will try to avoid including characters in any comparison of age because they tend to be treated as iconic, hence the reluctance to re-release or redesign them. However, considering GW's dual farseer/warlock bike I'm really surprised the Farseer on foot doesn't also double up the same :(

Unless something came before the Vyper and is still made in metal, then the Vyper is probably the oldest kit still in production by GW. Everything else *technically* had been remade in resin or came after it.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Eldar Falcon? Has that been redone since 2E?

Definitely, the Warlocks are ancient, dating back to the 2E Codex.

I'm pretty sure the middle two (greatsword and spear) go back to mid-Rogue Trader days, the first Craftworld and Aspect Warrior lists. So 1990?

Goff Rockers (appropriately still in metal)

Armour through the Ages,

Traitors of Chaos (and perhaps their fantasy equivalents are still in production?)

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

This includes:
Almost the entire SoB line save for the Exorcist and Penitent Engine

Half the SoB line is actually about 5-6 years younger than the other half.

The Canoness with a Combi-flamer, a couple of the heavy and special weapon variants and about half the seraphim and foot Sisters were the models originally released for the SoB.

The other Canoness, the reliquaries, half the designs on foot and seraphim, the repentia, vehicles and penitent engines all date to Codex Witchhunters.

Erm...

Maybe you should have a look on GW's site at what Sororitas models are still available.

Because a lot of that stuff is gone now. Really we're down to the point where pulling any more models would necessitate not being able to take entire special or heavy weapon options. I think the only thing they could possibly remove is one of the two Sister Superiors that are left.

The fact they are not available at the moment does not mean they did not exist. So I will pass on your suggestion to look at GW's webstore because, oddly enough they still exist out there if you know where to look - ebay, trading groups and the like.

Let's not pretend that a downsized range means they never existed. Because you know that to be a lie as do I.

Well, if you want the earliest model that EVER existed, and its current production doesn't matter... just... look at the first 40k model ever released and you have your answer.

I guess I shouldn't have assumed that "still in production" was implied.

The Armor through the Ages uses modern arms. If the Traitors of Chaos is what I'm thinking of, I can no longer find it on GW's website.

 Pouncey wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

This includes:
Almost the entire SoB line save for the Exorcist and Penitent Engine

Half the SoB line is actually about 5-6 years younger than the other half.

The Canoness with a Combi-flamer, a couple of the heavy and special weapon variants and about half the seraphim and foot Sisters were the models originally released for the SoB.

The other Canoness, the reliquaries, half the designs on foot and seraphim, the repentia, vehicles and penitent engines all date to Codex Witchhunters.

Erm...

Maybe you should have a look on GW's site at what Sororitas models are still available.

Because a lot of that stuff is gone now. Really we're down to the point where pulling any more models would necessitate not being able to take entire special or heavy weapon options. I think the only thing they could possibly remove is one of the two Sister Superiors that are left.

The fact they are not available at the moment does not mean they did not exist. So I will pass on your suggestion to look at GW's webstore because, oddly enough they still exist out there if you know where to look - ebay, trading groups and the like.

Let's not pretend that a downsized range means they never existed. Because you know that to be a lie as do I.

Well, if you want the earliest model that EVER existed, and its current production doesn't matter... just... look at the first 40k model ever released and you have your answer.

I guess I shouldn't have assumed that "still in production" was implied.

Read down a few posts before you reply.

You'll see I deconstructed the entire SoB range. A surprising chunk of what is still available is 2004 - Witchhunter Era.

Here's the irony.

That makes a fair chunk of the SoB range newer than the following....

Obliterators.
Thousand Sons.
Noise Marines.
Chaos Havocs.

Land Raiders
Rhinos

Eldar Warlocks
Eldar Guardians
Eldar Swooping Hawks
Eldar Warp Spiders
Eldar Vypers
Eldar Shining Spears
The Eldar Avatar
The Eldar Falcon

The Ork Warbuggy

Necron Warriors
Necron Scarabs.

Suddenly the 'beaten Soritas syndrome' is falling flat on its face when you consider how old half its range actually is.

Interesting; it is gone from the colonial sites, still for sale on UK.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Traitors-of-Chaos

Not for pond hopping traitors apparently .

2 of the armour through the ages are complete models (minus back pack and bases of course).

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Read down a few posts before you reply.

You'll see I deconstructed the entire SoB range. A surprising chunk of what is still available is 2004 - Witchhunter Era.

Here's the irony.

That makes a fair chunk of the SoB range newer than the following....

Obliterators.
Thousand Sons.
Noise Marines.
Chaos Havocs.

Land Raiders
Rhinos

Eldar Warlocks
Eldar Guardians
Eldar Swooping Hawks
Eldar Warp Spiders
Eldar Vypers
Eldar Shining Spears
The Eldar Avatar
The Eldar Falcon

The Ork Warbuggy

Necron Warriors
Necron Scarabs.

Suddenly the 'beaten Soritas syndrome' is falling flat on its face when you consider how old half its range actually is.

I'm pretty sure none of those armies have gotten literally nothing new in 13 years and instead had half the stuff that was in production go OOP.

Also my first post in the thread was me saying that Sisters of Battle probably don't have the oldest individual model still being produced.

nareik wrote:
Interesting; it is gone from the colonial sites, still for sale on UK.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Traitors-of-Chaos

Not for pond hopping traitors apparently .

2 of the armour through the ages are complete models (minus back pack and bases of course).

I personally wouldn't count the Traitors of Chaos or Armour through the Ages sets for their age for much the same reason I don't count special characters.

They're essentially showcase pieces meant to show off something 'iconic'. Something that has influenced design elements of its respective range.

Now, I will admit, some of the special character models have not aged well - Ragnar and Abaddon are the two main ones I can think of and that, I suspect is more due to scale creep than anything else - but you can see how they influenced their ranges in terms of aesthetics.

I remember GW talking about this iconic influence a lot - iirc it was when they released the Eldar in 3rd ed. and discussed how they took design elements for the Aspects released at the time from the respective Phoenix Lords.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
The Armor through the Ages uses modern arms.

If the Traitors of Chaos is what I'm thinking of, I can no longer find it on GW's website.

I remember the RT/2E arms & backpack sprue that SMs used to get, and GW isn't using them - they're using 3E+ arms & backpacks.

Traitors of Chaos seems to be using even newer backpacks, so can also be DQ'd as well.


Also, those Necron Warriors and Scarabs are NOT the originals from 3E - the originals don't have the plastic rods.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
The Armor through the Ages uses modern arms.

If the Traitors of Chaos is what I'm thinking of, I can no longer find it on GW's website.

I remember the RT/2E arms & backpack sprue that SMs used to get, and GW isn't using them - they're using 3E+ arms & backpacks.

Traitors of Chaos seems to be using even newer backpacks, so can also be DQ'd as well.

We can disqualify Goff Rockers because they are on new bases and don't have a unit entry.

 Pouncey wrote:

I'm pretty sure none of those armies have gotten literally nothing new in 13 years and instead had half the stuff that was in production go OOP.

Also my first post in the thread was me saying that Sisters of Battle probably don't have the oldest individual model still being produced.

And from my post history you'll see I've been a very strong advocate of SoB getting a GK style reboot, pointing out how even 2 plastic kits and a dual vehicle kit could be sufficient to revitalise a flagging range. Hilariously you came in here and made this about Sisters, as you do in seemingly almost every thread you step into.

But their range is not as old or neglected as you think they are.

Furthermore, if you want to look at gameplay mechanics they have what is the strongest ally matrix at present - Imperial. Orks, Necron, CSM and Eldar all have very, very restrictive and minimal ally matrixes, made significantly worse by the recent FAQs as well. So in terms of mechanics, other than the inherent weakness to flyers that SoB have they don't lack for their ability to compensate and cover their weaknesses.

The Imperial ally matrix containing Inquisition, AM, MT, Assassins, IK, every fething SM chapter under the sun and Ad-Mech. Plenty of options to shore up tactical holes there.

But hey, continue being passive aggressive.

Point is that Sisters have a range that isn't as old as they think it is or harp it to be. A lot of people seem to have no concept of editions or indeed time so I've seen tripe like 'the SoB range dates back to Rogue Trader!'

Which is tripe. Half their range actually dates midway through 3rd edition. Half their range came out AFTER CSM 3.5 so was utilising the 4th ed. assault rules - which were functioning as trial rules at that point in time.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

nareik wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
The Armor through the Ages uses modern arms.

If the Traitors of Chaos is what I'm thinking of, I can no longer find it on GW's website.

I remember the RT/2E arms & backpack sprue that SMs used to get, and GW isn't using them - they're using 3E+ arms & backpacks.

Traitors of Chaos seems to be using even newer backpacks, so can also be DQ'd as well.

We can disqualify Goff Rockers because they are on new bases and don't have a unit entry.

Personally I disqualify the Goff Rockers because they're essentially an iconic set rather than a functional unit in game. Sort of a nod to Ork history, just as the ToC and ATtA sets are nods to CSM and SM history.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

I'm pretty sure none of those armies have gotten literally nothing new in 13 years and instead had half the stuff that was in production go OOP.

Also my first post in the thread was me saying that Sisters of Battle probably don't have the oldest individual model still being produced.

And from my post history you'll see I've been a very strong advocate of SoB getting a GK style reboot, pointing out how even 2 plastic kits and a dual vehicle kit could be sufficient to revitalise a flagging range. Hilariously you came in here and made this about Sisters, as you do in seemingly almost every thread you step into.

But their range is not as old or neglected as you think they are.

Furthermore, if you want to look at gameplay mechanics they have what is the strongest ally matrix at present - Imperial. Orks, Necron, CSM and Eldar all have very, very restrictive and minimal ally matrixes, made significantly worse by the recent FAQs as well. So in terms of mechanics, other than the inherent weakness to flyers that SoB have they don't lack for their ability to compensate and cover their weaknesses.

The Imperial ally matrix containing Inquisition, AM, MT, Assassins, IK, every fething SM chapter under the sun and Ad-Mech. Plenty of options to shore up tactical holes there.

But hey, continue being passive aggressive.

Point is that Sisters have a range that isn't as old as they think it is or harp it to be. A lot of people seem to have no concept of editions or indeed time so I've seen tripe like 'the SoB range dates back to Rogue Trader!'

Which is tripe. Half their range actually dates midway through 3rd edition. Half their range came out AFTER CSM 3.5 so was utilising the 4th ed. assault rules - which were functioning as trial rules at that point in time.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

nareik wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
The Armor through the Ages uses modern arms.

If the Traitors of Chaos is what I'm thinking of, I can no longer find it on GW's website.

I remember the RT/2E arms & backpack sprue that SMs used to get, and GW isn't using them - they're using 3E+ arms & backpacks.

Traitors of Chaos seems to be using even newer backpacks, so can also be DQ'd as well.

We can disqualify Goff Rockers because they are on new bases and don't have a unit entry.

Personally I disqualify the Goff Rockers because they're essentially an iconic set rather than a functional unit in game. Sort of a nod to Ork history, just as the ToC and ATtA sets are nods to CSM and SM history.

I'm not the one who brought up Sisters of Battle in this thread. Other people did. I replied to them.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Eldar Falcon? Has that been redone since 2E?

Definitely, the Warlocks are ancient, dating back to the 2E Codex.

I'm pretty sure the middle two (greatsword and spear) go back to mid-Rogue Trader days, the first Craftworld and Aspect Warrior lists. So 1990?

Yup. Those middle two are oldies. 1990 when they introduced the path system for the eldar and revamped them.

The Falcon is still the same sprues as it was originally in 2nd ed days (Fire prism got a new kit). Vyper also dates to 2nd ed.

Vyper had a unit in the 2nd ed codex, but the model didn't come out for a bit afterwards (and the WD of that month came with replacement vehicle (datafax) card with the new art on it). Fireprism was a new unit for 2nd ed (and it came with both a new vehicle datafax and new eldar vehicle upgrade cards).

The jetbikes have been redone recently - they were 1992-ish to 2016 otherwise.

SM Rhino still dates to late 90s (3rd ed).

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
The Armor through the Ages uses modern arms.

If the Traitors of Chaos is what I'm thinking of, I can no longer find it on GW's website.

I remember the RT/2E arms & backpack sprue that SMs used to get, and GW isn't using them - they're using 3E+ arms & backpacks.

Traitors of Chaos seems to be using even newer backpacks, so can also be DQ'd as well.


Also, those Necron Warriors and Scarabs are NOT the originals from 3E - the originals don't have the plastic rods.

The new Necron Warriors don't have plastic rods either. Those were conversions made during the Shield of Baal campaign for a studio army. One of the weekly WDs actually covers that.

Or are you talking the 2nd ed. Warriors that had a mini expansion at the beginning of 3rd and then a release (where the plastic warriors and scarabs came in along with the Monolith and Destroyers) a few months shy of the Tau?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 chromedog wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Eldar Falcon? Has that been redone since 2E?

Definitely, the Warlocks are ancient, dating back to the 2E Codex.

I'm pretty sure the middle two (greatsword and spear) go back to mid-Rogue Trader days, the first Craftworld and Aspect Warrior lists. So 1990?

Yup. Those middle two are oldies. 1990 when they introduced the path system for the eldar and revamped them.

The Falcon is still the same sprues as it was originally in 2nd ed days (Fire prism got a new kit). Vyper also dates to 2nd ed.

Vyper had a unit in the 2nd ed codex, but the model didn't come out for a bit afterwards (and the WD of that month came with replacement vehicle (datafax) card with the new art on it). Fireprism was a new unit for 2nd ed (and it came with both a new vehicle datafax and new eldar vehicle upgrade cards).

The jetbikes have been redone recently - they were 1992-ish to 2016 otherwise.

SM Rhino still dates to late 90s (3rd ed).

SM Rhino is technically younger than the Land Raider iirc - Land Raider was WD 245 or roundabouts.

IIRC, the current Land Raider was from 2000-2001 and the current Rhino 2002 or 2003.

Falcon is definitely the oldest vehicle I can think of.

Or wait, have the Marine bikes been redone? They might be older than the Falcon, definitely 2nd edition.

No one's beaten Asgard though!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/694675.page

I supposed I should also mention GW produced some Grenedier (I think, or was it Ral Partha?) models that are still in production now.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

I'm pretty sure none of those armies have gotten literally nothing new in 13 years and instead had half the stuff that was in production go OOP.

Also my first post in the thread was me saying that Sisters of Battle probably don't have the oldest individual model still being produced.

And from my post history you'll see I've been a very strong advocate of SoB getting a GK style reboot, pointing out how even 2 plastic kits and a dual vehicle kit could be sufficient to revitalise a flagging range. Hilariously you came in here and made this about Sisters, as you do in seemingly almost every thread you step into.

But their range is not as old or neglected as you think they are.

Furthermore, if you want to look at gameplay mechanics they have what is the strongest ally matrix at present - Imperial. Orks, Necron, CSM and Eldar all have very, very restrictive and minimal ally matrixes, made significantly worse by the recent FAQs as well. So in terms of mechanics, other than the inherent weakness to flyers that SoB have they don't lack for their ability to compensate and cover their weaknesses.

The Imperial ally matrix containing Inquisition, AM, MT, Assassins, IK, every fething SM chapter under the sun and Ad-Mech. Plenty of options to shore up tactical holes there.

But hey, continue being passive aggressive.

Point is that Sisters have a range that isn't as old as they think it is or harp it to be. A lot of people seem to have no concept of editions or indeed time so I've seen tripe like 'the SoB range dates back to Rogue Trader!'

Which is tripe. Half their range actually dates midway through 3rd edition. Half their range came out AFTER CSM 3.5 so was utilising the 4th ed. assault rules - which were functioning as trial rules at that point in time.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

nareik wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
The Armor through the Ages uses modern arms.

If the Traitors of Chaos is what I'm thinking of, I can no longer find it on GW's website.

I remember the RT/2E arms & backpack sprue that SMs used to get, and GW isn't using them - they're using 3E+ arms & backpacks.

Traitors of Chaos seems to be using even newer backpacks, so can also be DQ'd as well.

We can disqualify Goff Rockers because they are on new bases and don't have a unit entry.

Personally I disqualify the Goff Rockers because they're essentially an iconic set rather than a functional unit in game. Sort of a nod to Ork history, just as the ToC and ATtA sets are nods to CSM and SM history.

They might be an iconic set, but I don't think the Goff Rockers have ever been removed from sale.

On the subject of greenskins, some of the snotling sculpts are really old.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Snotlings

Ork warbuggy was released UK white dwarf 199 I think. That's also pretty old, about the same as the old chaos special character models.

What about the SM land speeder? I know it's gone through a redesign at some point, but the current model seems like it's been around at least as long as the bikes.

Also, Tau Pirahna and Hammerhead models are fairly old, I believe.

Oddly enough, one of the best looking Warlock sculpts out there (holding sword and pistol, sword point down, pistol out) got cut from the package and that terrible sculpt in profile with the giant pool noodle sword is still around.

Some of these decisions, I don't get it.

Did anyone mention the standard catachan infantry kit? That's been around a while and does it look it. But it's not as old as some of the other stuff mentioned.

Ive Still got the WD when Dante Was released...

When was Marneus Calgar (power armour) released? I know he's fine cast now but it's still a very old sculpt.

Does anything in current production trump the Khorne Berserkers? (C) 1998. I remember fondly the day they came out, too.

 Stormonu wrote:
What about the SM land speeder?

Also, Tau Pirahna and Hammerhead models are fairly old, I believe.

The SM Land Speeder was redone in plastic for 3rd Edition, replacing a hideously fragile metal model. It's considerably newer than Jes' Eldar Warlocks.
____

 Future War Cultist wrote:
Did anyone mention the standard catachan infantry kit?

The Catachans got converted to plastic, replacing the 2E metals. I want to peg them as mid-late 3E.
____

WayneTheGame wrote:
Does anything in current production trump the Khorne Berserkers? (C) 1998.

Those Khorne Berzerkers were redone during 3rd Edition, and are newer than the SM Land Speeder. Very modern kit compared to the Warlocks.


Really, if it wasn't around back in 2E, it's not "old". The only question is whether it was released back in the RT days, and it looks like those models are almost all gone or replaced aside for a very few kits.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
Did anyone mention the standard catachan infantry kit? That's been around a while and does it look it. But it's not as old as some of the other stuff mentioned.

I was going to mention that one. Dates back to 1998 or 1999 if I recall. Though, when it was released, you got 20 models for like ~$22.50-25 MSRP IIRC.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
What about the SM land speeder?

Also, Tau Pirahna and Hammerhead models are fairly old, I believe.

The SM Land Speeder was redone in plastic for 3rd Edition, replacing a hideously fragile metal model. It's considerably newer than Jes' Eldar Warlocks.
____

 Future War Cultist wrote:
Did anyone mention the standard catachan infantry kit?

The Catachans got converted to plastic, replacing the 2E metals. I want to peg them as mid-late 3E.
____

WayneTheGame wrote:
Does anything in current production trump the Khorne Berserkers? (C) 1998.

Those Khorne Berzerkers were redone during 3rd Edition, and are newer than the SM Land Speeder. Very modern kit compared to the Warlocks.


Really, if it wasn't around back in 2E, it's not "old". The only question is whether it was released back in the RT days, and it looks like those models are almost all gone or replaced aside for a very few kits.

You mention plastic catachans, what about those metal tallarns and valhallans?

I gotta admit, it is pretty satisfying if the contender for 'oldest space marine' is Dante. Super appropriate!

It's interesting that the Eldar models have held up for how old they are. The Vypers & Grav tank chasis only realy show their age when assembling them, but after that they look great even now.

In terms of currently available - the Eldar range has it.

The Vyper is the oldest current plastic vehicle kit still in use (2nd ed codex has a data sheet in in it)

The Warp Spiders, Phoenix Lords, Avatar, some of the Warlocks are all still current models.

The Space Wolves and the Eldar were literally the first 2 codex ever released at the start of 2nd ed within a week or 2 of each other from memory. Ragnar Blackmane is all that's left of the wolves model wise and he was released during the tail end of RT - much like the elder I mention.

For those that keep mentioning the swooping hawks - they got redone in 3rd ed like most of the aspects but that sculpt has hung around where the others have been redone.

This is a tricky thread because GW has a bunch of random figures (often converted to finecast) floating around for many ranges. The oldest stuff I've seen is late RT or 2nd ed. and most of them have been mentioned.

Eldar have a bunch (I played from around 1992-2004 and half the army never changed).

-Shining Spears themselves are relatively new by Eldar standards (maybe 2001-2002 ish?) but they make use of the old plastic jetbike kit which is maybe from 1992. It's just a small box of metal add-ons to make the aspects.

-Vyper is "old" but was a late arrival in 2nd edition along with the Falcon. It's around the original Sisters of Battle and metal Guardsmen era.

-The Avatar himself is ancient. At least 1993-1994 or so.

-The two center Warlocks are old, easily early 90's.

-The Phoenix Lords are pretty darn old, between RT/2nd edition. Their original sculpts list them as Exarchs and not Phoenix Lords (terminology which was created around 2nd edition). They're quite early 90's.

-Warp Spiders are the only Aspect Warriors with old sculpts but they were a little later than other Aspects initially. They still pre-date the Falcon/Vyper etc.

The rest of the Eldar are late 90's or 3rd ed. and up.

The Marines have a smattering of single metals which definitely age back to the early-to-mid 90's. Njal Stormcaller, the Ragnar Blackmane metal and the Runepriest in Terminator armour are a few.

I have to concur with the thread that there is a very decent chance the Warlock figures may be the oldest which still have a unit entry and are playable pieces.

How old are ork warbugges? It seems a lot of eldar sculpts are old, but still fit the look of the army, but the ork drivers on warbugges don't look like current orks.

Side note that the Avatar is a new sculpt replacing the RT-era Avatar; I see it as roughly contemporary with the resculpted Greater Daemons, before they got their alternate heads.

Ork warbuggies are about 20 years old.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Side note that the Avatar is a new sculpt replacing the RT-era Avatar; I see it as roughly contemporary with the resculpted Greater Daemons, before they got their alternate heads.

Yep, but still 20+ years old. It pre-dated the Greater Daemons at that point slightly. It did replace the more human-sized Avatar from RT (the old guy with the spear). It was around at least 1993-1994. Not exactly a "new" sculpt.

Leman Russ battle tank should be on this list. It's got new sprues, but if you build it like a regular Leman Russ, it's all the same parts as the original.

Leman Russ was a little late, maybe 1995-1996 or so? I forgot when the Imperial Guard codex came out but it was supported by the boxes of metal guardsman and a wave of Leman Russ/Chimaera based plastic vehicles.

It's old but not quite as old as many of the other 2nd ed. throwbacks.

Oh yeah Phoenix Lords have to be it, they are still the the same sculpts I believe from 2nd edition at least (if not RT).

Also yes the Leman Russ and most older IG tanks are from 2nd edition.

Looking at the SoL ’93 catalog, there are a few familiar faces there.

SW HQS (Njal, Ragnar)

The specific warlocks in print don’t seem to be there, although similar ones are.

Going to have to give this one to the Wolves.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Leman Russ battle tank should be on this list. It's got new sprues, but if you build it like a regular Leman Russ, it's all the same parts as the original.

So it still uses the wheels between the armor plates? The new Chimera doesn't.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Leman Russ battle tank should be on this list. It's got new sprues, but if you build it like a regular Leman Russ, it's all the same parts as the original.

So it still uses the wheels between the armor plates? The new Chimera doesn't.

I have old Leman Russes and new Leman Russes. There are, in fact, differences between the kits.

For example, the shape of the turret is very, VERY different.

The first 2nd Codex was Wolves, so unless it hails from RT, it's Ragnar or PA Njal.

The Phoenix Lords are probably only younger by a matter of months.

So we're all pretty much in agreement it's a couple of Warlocks and a couple of Space Marine metals. Sounds about right.

Followed shortly by a rather large chunk of 2nd edition stuff which is still loitering in the store.

Has anyone brought up the "Armor through the ages sculpts?" I think some of these may predate the 2nd Ed. SW and Eldar releases, though I'm not sure.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Armour-Through-the-Ages

 Massaen wrote:


For those that keep mentioning the swooping hawks - they got redone in 3rd ed like most of the aspects but that sculpt has hung around where the others have been redone.

It is worth mentioning that when I mentioned the Swooping Hawks I did state they were 3rd ed. throwbacks - released around the time of the 3rd ed. codex along with the plastic guardians.

Personally, I don't count special characters.

So Ragnar, Njal, the Phoenix Lords, the CSM special characters - they can all get out of this thread. Yes, they are old but GW have stated in the past that they consider the older special characters to be iconic - they defined the current ranges aesthetics and appearances and as a result they don't really want to touch them or make major changes if they can avoid doing so.

Same with the web-exclusive mini bundles - Armour through the Ages, Goff Rockers, Traitors of Chaos - again, these are iconic models that helped defined their ranges and character. Sure, you can use them. You can use RT era metal space marines if you want - but they're not being sold as entire squads or cores of armies - if anything they'e sort of collector's pieces.

As far as the Warlocks go?

They're scattered in their releases - there are a few that date to RT - mainly the Warlock with the Witchblade pointed to the ground - he's also featured in studio armies by the way. This chap.

The singing spear and moving witchblade are early 2nd ed releases.

This chap was a 3rd ed. Codex release and the youngest warlock of them all - this fellow dates back to the Eye of Terror releases as he was part of the Ulthwe Seer Council box.

EDIT: Huh. It seems I have every Warlock available in my Eldar army apart from this chap.. Would love to get hold of him and a spare shuriken pistol from the Dire Avengers sprue if anyone has those going. (I just really like my Warlocks. Like, seriously. I have a 10 strong council and 5 more to go with Guardian or Support weapon units )

 Insectum7 wrote:
Has anyone brought up the "Armor through the ages sculpts?" I think some of these may predate the 2nd Ed. SW and Eldar releases, though I'm not sure.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Armour-Through-the-Ages

Edit: That Thunder Warrior is in the Compilation, 1991.

(D'oh. Meant edit, not quote)

2nd Ed. Rulebook is Copyright 1993, for reference.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:


So Ragnar, Njal, the Phoenix Lords, the CSM special characters - they can all get out of this thread. Yes, they are old but GW have stated in the past that they consider the older special characters to be iconic - they defined the current ranges aesthetics and appearances and as a result they don't really want to touch them or make major changes if they can avoid doing so.

Same with the web-exclusive mini bundles - Armour through the Ages, Goff Rockers, Traitors of Chaos - again, these are iconic models that helped defined their ranges and character. Sure, you can use them. You can use RT era metal space marines if you want - but they're not being sold as entire squads or cores of armies - if anything they'e sort of collector's pieces.

Given that Eldrad just got updated and that Khan is about to as well, I think GW have changed their tune on that. And rightfully so, they are really old and it shows, putting them next to modern plastic scultps they look terrible. Interestingly it seems that even though they are getting updated they are keeping the aesthetic very similar to those old sculpts, just with a much better use of space.

Agree with you on those more eccentric model groups.

 Insectum7 wrote:
Has anyone brought up the "Armor through the ages sculpts?" I think some of these may predate the 2nd Ed. SW and Eldar releases, though I'm not sure.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Armour-Through-the-Ages

Yes, and they're not using RT/2E arms & backpacks.

 Imateria wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:


So Ragnar, Njal, the Phoenix Lords, the CSM special characters - they can all get out of this thread. Yes, they are old but GW have stated in the past that they consider the older special characters to be iconic - they defined the current ranges aesthetics and appearances and as a result they don't really want to touch them or make major changes if they can avoid doing so.

Same with the web-exclusive mini bundles - Armour through the Ages, Goff Rockers, Traitors of Chaos - again, these are iconic models that helped defined their ranges and character. Sure, you can use them. You can use RT era metal space marines if you want - but they're not being sold as entire squads or cores of armies - if anything they'e sort of collector's pieces.

Given that Eldrad just got updated and that Khan is about to as well, I think GW have changed their tune on that. And rightfully so, they are really old and it shows, putting them next to modern plastic scultps they look terrible. Interestingly it seems that even though they are getting updated they are keeping the aesthetic very similar to those old sculpts, just with a much better use of space.

Agree with you on those more eccentric model groups.

I'm actually kind of impressed by that. Rountree is a good thing it seems and I think the decision to redo Eldrad and Kharn was quite a bold move on GW's part. Makes me wonder how heavy a decision it actually was.

Metal Eldrad isn't that bad nor is metal Kharn to be honest. Let's be frank here - what sculpts are you putting Kharn next to? The Berserkers? Eesh.

A lot of the problems with the SCs are their posing or current scaling and yeah, I feel they could do with some bulking.

But even though plastic Kharn is nice...I kind of feel like he's really not the CSM SC that needed a resculpt that badly.

Personally, plastic Abaddon would've gone down much, much better.

Anyone know how old the Last Chancers are?

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Anyone know how old the Last Chancers are?

3rd ed.

And long discontinued as a unit iirc. To be fair, Schaeffer as a model has aged rather nicely as well.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Anyone know how old the Last Chancers are?

3rd ed.

And long discontinued as a unit iirc. To be fair, Schaeffer as a model has aged rather nicely as well.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Colonel-Schaeffers-Last-Chancers

He means they don't have rules.

 Stormonu wrote:
Also, Tau Pirahna and Hammerhead models are fairly old, I believe.

The Hammerhead is still the original design from when Tau first were introduced in third. Which just goes to show that if you get your initial design right then you don't need to update it. Though the Hammerhead might not count as it was repackaged to have the Skyray upgrade sprue added, whereas before the Hammerhead kit only built a Hammerhead whilst the Skyray kit could build either. So with it having the upgrade sprue would place it in 4th edition when the Skyray was introduced.

The Pirhana was introduced in the 4th ed Tau codex.

This is going off the codices, there may have been an update between 3rd and 4th which introduced them that I am not aware of.

As an interesting side note, I wonder which army has the least amount of old models currently in their line? I think it may be Dark Eldar as I can't really think of anything they have now which wasn't part of the big 5th ed revamp of the army or newer.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
He means they don't have rules.

Ding!

There are no rules for fielding them any longer. As such I would not consider them viable for this.

I get the impression that the OP was essentially asking about kits in use that are expected to perform a functional role in their army, rather than collector's pieces or oddities that have no rules.

What about the Valhalla or Steel Legion troops they still sell on their website? I bought some of the steel legion from them last year. I'll check the date on the tabs when I get back home.
Vim

Steel legion are very new compared to Valhalla. Valhalla date back to the 2nd ed codex I think.

They do. So do the Tallarns.

EDIT: And the Mordian Iron Guard.

It has been mentioned, but I'm throwing my own stuff in here.

I have lead Warp Spiders (not pewter, or raldium pewter whatever that meant) that are the same models as the currently produced finecast variety.

Vypers are just as old.

Falcons are newer though, by a few years. Falcons only came out right near the end of 2nd edition.

I still say the Vyper is the oldest, since the other ones are either younger or have been remade in Finecast (it's the same sculpt but technically a new set).

 DarknessEternal wrote:
It has been mentioned, but I'm throwing my own stuff in here.

I have lead Warp Spiders (not pewter, or raldium pewter whatever that meant) that are the same models as the currently produced finecast variety.

Vypers are just as old.

Falcons are newer though, by a few years. Falcons only came out right near the end of 2nd edition.

Covered this earlier.

UK White Dwarf 207 had the Vyper iirc.

Sisters of Battle was White Dwarf 212.

Gorkamorka was White Dwarf 214.

Eldar Falcon was White Dwarf 216.

Necrons were White Dwarf 217-218.

The Falcon is at most 9 months younger than the Vyper. Not a couple of years.

Warp Spiders are older than both of them however.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
It has been mentioned, but I'm throwing my own stuff in here.

I have lead Warp Spiders (not pewter, or raldium pewter whatever that meant) that are the same models as the currently produced finecast variety.

Vypers are just as old.

Falcons are newer though, by a few years. Falcons only came out right near the end of 2nd edition.

Covered this earlier.

UK White Dwarf 207 had the Vyper iirc.

Sisters of Battle was White Dwarf 212.

Gorkamorka was White Dwarf 214.

Eldar Falcon was White Dwarf 216.

Necrons were White Dwarf 217-218.

The Falcon is at most 9 months younger than the Vyper. Not a couple of years.

Warp Spiders are older than both of them however.

And I believe those two Warlocks are older yet again.

As before, the WD 217-218 Necrons are the very old metal ones, replaced by the plastic ones.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 Massaen wrote:


For those that keep mentioning the swooping hawks - they got redone in 3rd ed like most of the aspects but that sculpt has hung around where the others have been redone.

It is worth mentioning that when I mentioned the Swooping Hawks I did state they were 3rd ed. throwbacks - released around the time of the 3rd ed. codex along with the plastic guardians.

Personally, I don't count special characters.

So Ragnar, Njal, the Phoenix Lords, the CSM special characters - they can all get out of this thread. Yes, they are old but GW have stated in the past that they consider the older special characters to be iconic - they defined the current ranges aesthetics and appearances and as a result they don't really want to touch them or make major changes if they can avoid doing so.

Same with the web-exclusive mini bundles - Armour through the Ages, Goff Rockers, Traitors of Chaos - again, these are iconic models that helped defined their ranges and character. Sure, you can use them. You can use RT era metal space marines if you want - but they're not being sold as entire squads or cores of armies - if anything they'e sort of collector's pieces.

As far as the Warlocks go?

They're scattered in their releases - there are a few that date to RT - mainly the Warlock with the Witchblade pointed to the ground - he's also featured in studio armies by the way. This chap.

The singing spear and moving witchblade are early 2nd ed releases.

This chap was a 3rd ed. Codex release and the youngest warlock of them all - this fellow dates back to the Eye of Terror releases as he was part of the Ulthwe Seer Council box.

EDIT: Huh. It seems I have every Warlock available in my Eldar army apart from this chap.. Would love to get hold of him and a spare shuriken pistol from the Dire Avengers sprue if anyone has those going. (I just really like my Warlocks. Like, seriously. I have a 10 strong council and 5 more to go with Guardian or Support weapon units )

You forgotting the Antlered one!!

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
It has been mentioned, but I'm throwing my own stuff in here.

I have lead Warp Spiders (not pewter, or raldium pewter whatever that meant) that are the same models as the currently produced finecast variety.

Vypers are just as old.

Falcons are newer though, by a few years. Falcons only came out right near the end of 2nd edition.

Covered this earlier.

UK White Dwarf 207 had the Vyper iirc.

Sisters of Battle was White Dwarf 212.

Gorkamorka was White Dwarf 214.

Eldar Falcon was White Dwarf 216.

Necrons were White Dwarf 217-218.

The Falcon is at most 9 months younger than the Vyper. Not a couple of years.

Warp Spiders are older than both of them however.

And I believe those two Warlocks are older yet again.

As before, the WD 217-218 Necrons are the very old metal ones, replaced by the plastic ones.

Never said those weren't mate.

It was when the Necrons were actually released as a race.

They then had a mini-update and 3rd ed list, I want to say around WD 230 when metal Immortals were released.

And then a few years later a new range release with the plastic Warriors and Scarabs - which are still older than half the SoB range by the way as Codex: Necrons was prior to Codex: Witchhunters.


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Lord Perversor wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 Massaen wrote:


For those that keep mentioning the swooping hawks - they got redone in 3rd ed like most of the aspects but that sculpt has hung around where the others have been redone.

It is worth mentioning that when I mentioned the Swooping Hawks I did state they were 3rd ed. throwbacks - released around the time of the 3rd ed. codex along with the plastic guardians.

Personally, I don't count special characters.

So Ragnar, Njal, the Phoenix Lords, the CSM special characters - they can all get out of this thread. Yes, they are old but GW have stated in the past that they consider the older special characters to be iconic - they defined the current ranges aesthetics and appearances and as a result they don't really want to touch them or make major changes if they can avoid doing so.

Same with the web-exclusive mini bundles - Armour through the Ages, Goff Rockers, Traitors of Chaos - again, these are iconic models that helped defined their ranges and character. Sure, you can use them. You can use RT era metal space marines if you want - but they're not being sold as entire squads or cores of armies - if anything they'e sort of collector's pieces.

As far as the Warlocks go?

They're scattered in their releases - there are a few that date to RT - mainly the Warlock with the Witchblade pointed to the ground - he's also featured in studio armies by the way. This chap.

The singing spear and moving witchblade are early 2nd ed releases.

This chap was a 3rd ed. Codex release and the youngest warlock of them all - this fellow dates back to the Eye of Terror releases as he was part of the Ulthwe Seer Council box.

EDIT: Huh. It seems I have every Warlock available in my Eldar army apart from this chap.. Would love to get hold of him and a spare shuriken pistol from the Dire Avengers sprue if anyone has those going. (I just really like my Warlocks. Like, seriously. I have a 10 strong council and 5 more to go with Guardian or Support weapon units )

You forgotting the Antlered one!!

RT Era and doesn't feature in any of the images for the armies in the Codex or on the GW website.

Yes, I have one of him too.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
Has anyone brought up the "Armor through the ages sculpts?" I think some of these may predate the 2nd Ed. SW and Eldar releases, though I'm not sure.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Armour-Through-the-Ages

Yes, and they're not using RT/2E arms & backpacks.

Ahh, I suppose that's true. Otherwise though. . .

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Or wait, have the Marine bikes been redone? They might be older than the Falcon, definitely 2nd edition.

Anyone know the release date for the SM bike? It miiight be older than the Vyper.

The bike kit was re-cut at some point. It used to have flat topped legs, but they shifted to a more modern-compatable rounded top.

 Nevelon wrote:
The bike kit was re-cut at some point. It used to have flat topped legs, but they shifted to a more modern-compatable rounded top.

Huh, I didn't even notice. . . I was too busy looking at a how spare the sprues were in comparison to modern kits.

Just glanced through the old catalogues and the Warp Spiders make their first appearance (that I can find) in 1993 along with the "new" Avatar which is still present and three more Warlocks (the ones we've been talking about).

Previous Warlock metals includes the antlered guy and two models fielding laspistols (obviously no longer used).
_____________________
The Librarian in Terminator armour (super close to the Runepriest) was shown off in 92. Ragnar and Gnal show up in 1992 as well, currently the oldest I can find.
_____________________

Ragnar has a different older sculpt in 1991 (the one with the tiny chainsword and the wolf).

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
He means they don't have rules.

Ding!

There are no rules for fielding them any longer. As such I would not consider them viable for this.

I get the impression that the OP was essentially asking about kits in use that are expected to perform a functional role in their army, rather than collector's pieces or oddities that have no rules.

Essentially, yes. In effect, "If you want to make an army that contains X, which options are using some old models?"

Not trying to find out what *the8 oldest is, mind you, just a general vibe. I suppose for purposes of this thread, "Before third edition" would be a general vibe.

Figuring out how many of these units are 20+ years old and, basically, have gone through college at this stage, I'm wondering when they'll have kids of their own.

"Come on, Stormcaller, I'm not getting any younger and neither or you! When am I going to get to meet my grandkids, hmm? HMMM? Be a shame if they never met their grandpa!"

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 Imateria wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:


So Ragnar, Njal, the Phoenix Lords, the CSM special characters - they can all get out of this thread. Yes, they are old but GW have stated in the past that they consider the older special characters to be iconic - they defined the current ranges aesthetics and appearances and as a result they don't really want to touch them or make major changes if they can avoid doing so.

Same with the web-exclusive mini bundles - Armour through the Ages, Goff Rockers, Traitors of Chaos - again, these are iconic models that helped defined their ranges and character. Sure, you can use them. You can use RT era metal space marines if you want - but they're not being sold as entire squads or cores of armies - if anything they'e sort of collector's pieces.

Given that Eldrad just got updated and that Khan is about to as well, I think GW have changed their tune on that. And rightfully so, they are really old and it shows, putting them next to modern plastic scultps they look terrible. Interestingly it seems that even though they are getting updated they are keeping the aesthetic very similar to those old sculpts, just with a much better use of space.

Agree with you on those more eccentric model groups.

I'm actually kind of impressed by that. Rountree is a good thing it seems and I think the decision to redo Eldrad and Kharn was quite a bold move on GW's part. Makes me wonder how heavy a decision it actually was.

Metal Eldrad isn't that bad nor is metal Kharn to be honest. Let's be frank here - what sculpts are you putting Kharn next to? The Berserkers? Eesh.

A lot of the problems with the SCs are their posing or current scaling and yeah, I feel they could do with some bulking.

But even though plastic Kharn is nice...I kind of feel like he's really not the CSM SC that needed a resculpt that badly.

Personally, plastic Abaddon would've gone down much, much better.

I agree the old Eldrad wasn't exactly bad but the new plastic one is amazing, as for Kharn I'm not a fan of Khorn flavoured Chaos anyway but what I've seen of the new plastic model is also a big improvement IMO. I think the wish list for other characters getting updated at this point is nearly all of them.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

I have lead Warp Spiders (not pewter, or raldium pewter whatever that meant)

"Ralidium" (with a trademark) was what Ral Partha called their lead-free white-metal-alloy when the proposed ban on lead in toys was being proposed (As they are a US company, they would have been first against the wall). Other companies also switched to a lead-free alloy (including GW) but not all stuck with it once the ban proposal failed.

GW's initial foray into the "lead free" period was also known as the "shrapnel years". People converting models in store had to be careful with the stray bits that tended to fly off in odd directions.

witchdoctor wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
Did anyone mention the standard catachan infantry kit? That's been around a while and does it look it. But it's not as old as some of the other stuff mentioned.

I was going to mention that one. Dates back to 1998 or 1999 if I recall. Though, when it was released, you got 20 models for like ~$22.50-25 MSRP IIRC.

Late 1999, I got it as a Christmas gift


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Insectum7 wrote:Has anyone brought up the "Armor through the ages sculpts?" I think some of these may predate the 2nd Ed. SW and Eldar releases, though I'm not sure.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Armour-Through-the-Ages

Y'know I think the one-peice models for that one win, it's either them or the warlocks, both are mid-RT era. Compilation time.

 Azreal13 wrote:
The first 2nd Codex was Wolves, so unless it hails from RT, it's Ragnar or PA Njal.

The Phoenix Lords are probably only younger by a matter of months.

Wolves were the last big release for RT days, 1992 or so, which is why they were the first codex in 2nd edition days. Ragnar would be late RT, but the Warlocks and Historical Marines beat him.

Maybe this should be a letter to the new white dwarf?

 JohnHwangDD wrote:


The SM Land Speeder was redone in plastic for 3rd Edition, replacing a hideously fragile metal model. It's considerably newer than Jes' Eldar Warlocks.

I still have that metal SM Land Speeder (in pieces, appropriately enough), and a SM medic on an Imperial jetbike.

Shame they didn't make the 2nd era Land Speeder in plastic instead of redesigning it (it looks terrible and the kit is bad to boot!).

I also liked the Land Speeder pilot's special helmet.

how old is the basic CSM kit?

 Elbows wrote:
Shame they didn't make the 2nd era Land Speeder in plastic instead of redesigning it (it looks terrible and the kit is bad to boot!).

I also liked the Land Speeder pilot's special helmet.

Yeah the second edition speeders are great. A classic model, and if glued together properly nowhere near as fragile as their reputation would have some believe. I've three of the little blighters and they zip about across the battle field nicely. It's the weight that becomes a bit of an issue when trying to balance them on modern terrain.

 Vash108 wrote:
how old is the basic CSM kit?

Mid 3rd edition, I want to say 2001 or 2002, then recut around 2007 or 2008.

Younger than the Bezerker or Catachan kits

Sisters of Battle, plaguebearers, some other minor models.

I am trying to remember when the Imperial Guard sprue got made (either Catachan or Cadian), my metal IG is incredibly old so I think that sprue owes GW nothing.

I was tempted to say the Basilisk but refurbished it or something because the new sprue is not the same as the original I had: the model looks exactly the same however.

I think eldar guardians are in a similar boat: where they were metal for a time (RT to 2nd edition?) then the kit never changed.

I agree that the Pheonix lords have not changed ever.

The Chaos leaders are in a similar boat BUT Typhus is a much newer model.

Dark and Blood Angel main character models are the original metal one-piece (2ish) models.

Going through all these models are hard, most of my old stuff is the single piece metal mold Khorne Berzerkers or Thousand Sons for instance (with one plastic backpack to glue on).

Metal IG was 1994 or 1995, 1999 for plastic catachans then I think 2001 or 2002 for Cadians

Got to be the Metal Avatar or the Space Wolf Characters then, that's if we are discounting the Goff Rockers for some reason?

 Talizvar wrote:
I was tempted to say the Basilisk but refurbished it or something because the new sprue is not the same as the original I had: the model looks exactly the same however.

I think eldar guardians are in a similar boat: where they were metal for a time (RT to 2nd edition?) then the kit never changed.

I agree that the Pheonix lords have not changed ever.

The Chaos leaders are in a similar boat BUT Typhus is a much newer model.

Dark and Blood Angel main character models are the original metal one-piece (2ish) models.

Going through all these models are hard, most of my old stuff is the single piece metal mold Khorne Berzerkers or Thousand Sons for instance (with one plastic backpack to glue on).

The new Bassie uses the new Chimera chassis, which means it's got completely different track assembly and support, along with all-new side pods that look nothing like the original. It's at most a decade old.

The Eldar Guardians were available as metal during RT. In 2E, they were a 6-model plastic box, upgraded with GIANT metal shuricat bitz. Then, they got redone as a 10-model box for 3E.

Phoenix Lords are old 2E, but not as old as the Warlocks.

Metal 'Zerks are RT-era, but they've been redone at least twice, first as a 6-zerk plastic box for 2E, then as a 8-zerk box for 3E. Not sure if they were redone after that.

1992: Ragnar Blackmane/ Gnal Stormcaller

1993: Avatar, and some of the Warlocks.

Can anyone find something before 1992?

What age are the servitors? I'm sure some of them were in the 2nd ed rule book colour section.

I think the oldest have to be the warp spider. I remember it was released on WD 9 in France, way before gorkamorka or eldar vyper or any plastic set still on sale

 Elbows wrote:
1992: Ragnar Blackmane/ Gnal Stormcaller

1993: Avatar, and some of the Warlocks.

Can anyone find something before 1992?

The MK1 Armor "Thunder Armor" model I mentioned before is at least 1991. In fact it's in the January 1991 WD 133, and it might have been released prior to that. It currently comes with a standard marine backpack though, so wether it wins the prize as "oldest" depends on your specific qualifications. It's still usable as a Space Marine.

It's possible that some of those Warlocks were around before the Eldar Codex, but I don't have the references for it. They are not in the Compilation (1991), but it's not extensive in it's catalog.

If you're looking for full model (sans backpack), probably a couple of those Warlocks.

If you're looking for a Squad, I think it's Warp Spiders.

Unmodified from original material (since all previously metal casts are now resin) I think it's the Vyper.

The Mk. I uses a 3E+ backpack, so doesn't count.

The Warlocks predate the Eldar Codex (2E).

Many other "classic" 2E units (e.g. Tallarn) are still listed as metal.

Also, it's worth mentioning that the "armour through the ages" has not been available for the entire duration has it? When did the bitz order close down? Surely there was a couple of years where the old combination models were unavailable.

The others have soldiered on, I believe, without a gap in availability (despite some being finecast now).

Certain warlocks date to 1990 (RT) and definitely predate the eldar codex.

I've got all of them - some are newer than others, but I still have all of the original wave.

Yeah, but all I could find of the old ones were the discontinued ones (antlers and two guys with laspistols). It looks like the witchblade ones are mostly 1993.

 chromedog wrote:
Certain warlocks date to 1990 (RT) and definitely predate the eldar codex.

I've got all of them - some are newer than others, but I still have all of the original wave.

I have all apart from the Witchblade one with the pistol raised. I want him and his little silly mowhawk crest. :(

Good God, they still sell the old Avatar of Khaine? I thought that model had been redone after the Forgeworld version had been released.

Noooope. Same sculpt.

nareik wrote:What age are the servitors? I'm sure some of them were in the 2nd ed rule book colour section.

There were 2 servitors released as part of the same SW wave that saw Ragnar come out, but they were redone at some point.



EDIT they're still in production, paired with 2003-2004 gun servitors and in finecast. So they're tied with Ragnar

reluxor wrote:I think the oldest have to be the warp spider. I remember it was released on WD 9 in France, way before gorkamorka or eldar vyper or any plastic set still on sale

Released with the 2nd edition Eldar codex along with phoenix lords, 1993 or 4. After Ragnar.

Elbows wrote:Yeah, but all I could find of the old ones were the discontinued ones (antlers and two guys with laspistols). It looks like the witchblade ones are mostly 1993.

Yeah I looked as well and I think the old Warlocks are from 2nd edition not Rogue Trader. Which means the candiates are:

Ragnar (possibly disqualified since he's been redone in Finecast)


Amour Through the Ages (possibly disqualified because they use the 'modern' plastic arms and backpacks)


Traitors of Chaos possibly disqualified because they use the 'modern' plastic backpacks)


And Goff Rockers (possibly disqualified because they're no longer a unit)


If someone wants to be really strict, no change in plastic accessories or casting medium, I think the metal IG might win.

 Elbows wrote:
Also, it's worth mentioning that the "armour through the ages" has not been available for the entire duration has it? When did the bitz order close down? Surely there was a couple of years where the old combination models were unavailable.

The others have soldiered on, I believe, without a gap in availability (despite some being finecast now).

I think Goff Rockers have always been available... in METAL too! .|..|


Out of interest, which editions did they actually have rules? I don't remember them even in 2nd, but that was a long time go and long before I purchased mine.

I had my Goffik Rokkers when they were new, and I own 'Ere We Go and Freebooterz... I don't remember any rules for them as I only ever used them as Battlewagon decoration.

 Fifty wrote:
I had my Goffik Rokkers when they were new, and I own 'Ere We Go and Freebooterz... I don't remember any rules for them as I only ever used them as Battlewagon decoration.

I had a sudden vision of them with a bungee guitar that acts as a flame thrower:

 Fifty wrote:
I had my Goffik Rokkers when they were new, and I own 'Ere We Go and Freebooterz... I don't remember any rules for them as I only ever used them as Battlewagon decoration.

Hmm, I guess from that metric from the day they were released they didn't count as a kit for some in this thread.