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 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
The Armor through the Ages uses modern arms.

If the Traitors of Chaos is what I'm thinking of, I can no longer find it on GW's website.

I remember the RT/2E arms & backpack sprue that SMs used to get, and GW isn't using them - they're using 3E+ arms & backpacks.

Traitors of Chaos seems to be using even newer backpacks, so can also be DQ'd as well.

We can disqualify Goff Rockers because they are on new bases and don't have a unit entry.

 Pouncey wrote:

I'm pretty sure none of those armies have gotten literally nothing new in 13 years and instead had half the stuff that was in production go OOP.

Also my first post in the thread was me saying that Sisters of Battle probably don't have the oldest individual model still being produced.

And from my post history you'll see I've been a very strong advocate of SoB getting a GK style reboot, pointing out how even 2 plastic kits and a dual vehicle kit could be sufficient to revitalise a flagging range. Hilariously you came in here and made this about Sisters, as you do in seemingly almost every thread you step into.

But their range is not as old or neglected as you think they are.

Furthermore, if you want to look at gameplay mechanics they have what is the strongest ally matrix at present - Imperial. Orks, Necron, CSM and Eldar all have very, very restrictive and minimal ally matrixes, made significantly worse by the recent FAQs as well. So in terms of mechanics, other than the inherent weakness to flyers that SoB have they don't lack for their ability to compensate and cover their weaknesses.

The Imperial ally matrix containing Inquisition, AM, MT, Assassins, IK, every fething SM chapter under the sun and Ad-Mech. Plenty of options to shore up tactical holes there.

But hey, continue being passive aggressive.

Point is that Sisters have a range that isn't as old as they think it is or harp it to be. A lot of people seem to have no concept of editions or indeed time so I've seen tripe like 'the SoB range dates back to Rogue Trader!'

Which is tripe. Half their range actually dates midway through 3rd edition. Half their range came out AFTER CSM 3.5 so was utilising the 4th ed. assault rules - which were functioning as trial rules at that point in time.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

nareik wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
The Armor through the Ages uses modern arms.

If the Traitors of Chaos is what I'm thinking of, I can no longer find it on GW's website.

I remember the RT/2E arms & backpack sprue that SMs used to get, and GW isn't using them - they're using 3E+ arms & backpacks.

Traitors of Chaos seems to be using even newer backpacks, so can also be DQ'd as well.

We can disqualify Goff Rockers because they are on new bases and don't have a unit entry.

Personally I disqualify the Goff Rockers because they're essentially an iconic set rather than a functional unit in game. Sort of a nod to Ork history, just as the ToC and ATtA sets are nods to CSM and SM history.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

I'm pretty sure none of those armies have gotten literally nothing new in 13 years and instead had half the stuff that was in production go OOP.

Also my first post in the thread was me saying that Sisters of Battle probably don't have the oldest individual model still being produced.

And from my post history you'll see I've been a very strong advocate of SoB getting a GK style reboot, pointing out how even 2 plastic kits and a dual vehicle kit could be sufficient to revitalise a flagging range. Hilariously you came in here and made this about Sisters, as you do in seemingly almost every thread you step into.

But their range is not as old or neglected as you think they are.

Furthermore, if you want to look at gameplay mechanics they have what is the strongest ally matrix at present - Imperial. Orks, Necron, CSM and Eldar all have very, very restrictive and minimal ally matrixes, made significantly worse by the recent FAQs as well. So in terms of mechanics, other than the inherent weakness to flyers that SoB have they don't lack for their ability to compensate and cover their weaknesses.

The Imperial ally matrix containing Inquisition, AM, MT, Assassins, IK, every fething SM chapter under the sun and Ad-Mech. Plenty of options to shore up tactical holes there.

But hey, continue being passive aggressive.

Point is that Sisters have a range that isn't as old as they think it is or harp it to be. A lot of people seem to have no concept of editions or indeed time so I've seen tripe like 'the SoB range dates back to Rogue Trader!'

Which is tripe. Half their range actually dates midway through 3rd edition. Half their range came out AFTER CSM 3.5 so was utilising the 4th ed. assault rules - which were functioning as trial rules at that point in time.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

nareik wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
The Armor through the Ages uses modern arms.

If the Traitors of Chaos is what I'm thinking of, I can no longer find it on GW's website.

I remember the RT/2E arms & backpack sprue that SMs used to get, and GW isn't using them - they're using 3E+ arms & backpacks.

Traitors of Chaos seems to be using even newer backpacks, so can also be DQ'd as well.

We can disqualify Goff Rockers because they are on new bases and don't have a unit entry.

Personally I disqualify the Goff Rockers because they're essentially an iconic set rather than a functional unit in game. Sort of a nod to Ork history, just as the ToC and ATtA sets are nods to CSM and SM history.

I'm not the one who brought up Sisters of Battle in this thread. Other people did. I replied to them.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Eldar Falcon? Has that been redone since 2E?

Definitely, the Warlocks are ancient, dating back to the 2E Codex.

I'm pretty sure the middle two (greatsword and spear) go back to mid-Rogue Trader days, the first Craftworld and Aspect Warrior lists. So 1990?

Yup. Those middle two are oldies. 1990 when they introduced the path system for the eldar and revamped them.

The Falcon is still the same sprues as it was originally in 2nd ed days (Fire prism got a new kit). Vyper also dates to 2nd ed.

Vyper had a unit in the 2nd ed codex, but the model didn't come out for a bit afterwards (and the WD of that month came with replacement vehicle (datafax) card with the new art on it). Fireprism was a new unit for 2nd ed (and it came with both a new vehicle datafax and new eldar vehicle upgrade cards).

The jetbikes have been redone recently - they were 1992-ish to 2016 otherwise.

SM Rhino still dates to late 90s (3rd ed).

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
The Armor through the Ages uses modern arms.

If the Traitors of Chaos is what I'm thinking of, I can no longer find it on GW's website.

I remember the RT/2E arms & backpack sprue that SMs used to get, and GW isn't using them - they're using 3E+ arms & backpacks.

Traitors of Chaos seems to be using even newer backpacks, so can also be DQ'd as well.


Also, those Necron Warriors and Scarabs are NOT the originals from 3E - the originals don't have the plastic rods.

The new Necron Warriors don't have plastic rods either. Those were conversions made during the Shield of Baal campaign for a studio army. One of the weekly WDs actually covers that.

Or are you talking the 2nd ed. Warriors that had a mini expansion at the beginning of 3rd and then a release (where the plastic warriors and scarabs came in along with the Monolith and Destroyers) a few months shy of the Tau?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 chromedog wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Eldar Falcon? Has that been redone since 2E?

Definitely, the Warlocks are ancient, dating back to the 2E Codex.

I'm pretty sure the middle two (greatsword and spear) go back to mid-Rogue Trader days, the first Craftworld and Aspect Warrior lists. So 1990?

Yup. Those middle two are oldies. 1990 when they introduced the path system for the eldar and revamped them.

The Falcon is still the same sprues as it was originally in 2nd ed days (Fire prism got a new kit). Vyper also dates to 2nd ed.

Vyper had a unit in the 2nd ed codex, but the model didn't come out for a bit afterwards (and the WD of that month came with replacement vehicle (datafax) card with the new art on it). Fireprism was a new unit for 2nd ed (and it came with both a new vehicle datafax and new eldar vehicle upgrade cards).

The jetbikes have been redone recently - they were 1992-ish to 2016 otherwise.

SM Rhino still dates to late 90s (3rd ed).

SM Rhino is technically younger than the Land Raider iirc - Land Raider was WD 245 or roundabouts.

IIRC, the current Land Raider was from 2000-2001 and the current Rhino 2002 or 2003.

Falcon is definitely the oldest vehicle I can think of.

Or wait, have the Marine bikes been redone? They might be older than the Falcon, definitely 2nd edition.

No one's beaten Asgard though!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/694675.page

I supposed I should also mention GW produced some Grenedier (I think, or was it Ral Partha?) models that are still in production now.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

I'm pretty sure none of those armies have gotten literally nothing new in 13 years and instead had half the stuff that was in production go OOP.

Also my first post in the thread was me saying that Sisters of Battle probably don't have the oldest individual model still being produced.

And from my post history you'll see I've been a very strong advocate of SoB getting a GK style reboot, pointing out how even 2 plastic kits and a dual vehicle kit could be sufficient to revitalise a flagging range. Hilariously you came in here and made this about Sisters, as you do in seemingly almost every thread you step into.

But their range is not as old or neglected as you think they are.

Furthermore, if you want to look at gameplay mechanics they have what is the strongest ally matrix at present - Imperial. Orks, Necron, CSM and Eldar all have very, very restrictive and minimal ally matrixes, made significantly worse by the recent FAQs as well. So in terms of mechanics, other than the inherent weakness to flyers that SoB have they don't lack for their ability to compensate and cover their weaknesses.

The Imperial ally matrix containing Inquisition, AM, MT, Assassins, IK, every fething SM chapter under the sun and Ad-Mech. Plenty of options to shore up tactical holes there.

But hey, continue being passive aggressive.

Point is that Sisters have a range that isn't as old as they think it is or harp it to be. A lot of people seem to have no concept of editions or indeed time so I've seen tripe like 'the SoB range dates back to Rogue Trader!'

Which is tripe. Half their range actually dates midway through 3rd edition. Half their range came out AFTER CSM 3.5 so was utilising the 4th ed. assault rules - which were functioning as trial rules at that point in time.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

nareik wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
The Armor through the Ages uses modern arms.

If the Traitors of Chaos is what I'm thinking of, I can no longer find it on GW's website.

I remember the RT/2E arms & backpack sprue that SMs used to get, and GW isn't using them - they're using 3E+ arms & backpacks.

Traitors of Chaos seems to be using even newer backpacks, so can also be DQ'd as well.

We can disqualify Goff Rockers because they are on new bases and don't have a unit entry.

Personally I disqualify the Goff Rockers because they're essentially an iconic set rather than a functional unit in game. Sort of a nod to Ork history, just as the ToC and ATtA sets are nods to CSM and SM history.

They might be an iconic set, but I don't think the Goff Rockers have ever been removed from sale.

On the subject of greenskins, some of the snotling sculpts are really old.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Snotlings

Ork warbuggy was released UK white dwarf 199 I think. That's also pretty old, about the same as the old chaos special character models.

What about the SM land speeder? I know it's gone through a redesign at some point, but the current model seems like it's been around at least as long as the bikes.

Also, Tau Pirahna and Hammerhead models are fairly old, I believe.

Oddly enough, one of the best looking Warlock sculpts out there (holding sword and pistol, sword point down, pistol out) got cut from the package and that terrible sculpt in profile with the giant pool noodle sword is still around.

Some of these decisions, I don't get it.

Did anyone mention the standard catachan infantry kit? That's been around a while and does it look it. But it's not as old as some of the other stuff mentioned.

Ive Still got the WD when Dante Was released...

When was Marneus Calgar (power armour) released? I know he's fine cast now but it's still a very old sculpt.

Does anything in current production trump the Khorne Berserkers? (C) 1998. I remember fondly the day they came out, too.

 Stormonu wrote:
What about the SM land speeder?

Also, Tau Pirahna and Hammerhead models are fairly old, I believe.

The SM Land Speeder was redone in plastic for 3rd Edition, replacing a hideously fragile metal model. It's considerably newer than Jes' Eldar Warlocks.
____

 Future War Cultist wrote:
Did anyone mention the standard catachan infantry kit?

The Catachans got converted to plastic, replacing the 2E metals. I want to peg them as mid-late 3E.
____

WayneTheGame wrote:
Does anything in current production trump the Khorne Berserkers? (C) 1998.

Those Khorne Berzerkers were redone during 3rd Edition, and are newer than the SM Land Speeder. Very modern kit compared to the Warlocks.


Really, if it wasn't around back in 2E, it's not "old". The only question is whether it was released back in the RT days, and it looks like those models are almost all gone or replaced aside for a very few kits.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
Did anyone mention the standard catachan infantry kit? That's been around a while and does it look it. But it's not as old as some of the other stuff mentioned.

I was going to mention that one. Dates back to 1998 or 1999 if I recall. Though, when it was released, you got 20 models for like ~$22.50-25 MSRP IIRC.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
What about the SM land speeder?

Also, Tau Pirahna and Hammerhead models are fairly old, I believe.

The SM Land Speeder was redone in plastic for 3rd Edition, replacing a hideously fragile metal model. It's considerably newer than Jes' Eldar Warlocks.
____

 Future War Cultist wrote:
Did anyone mention the standard catachan infantry kit?

The Catachans got converted to plastic, replacing the 2E metals. I want to peg them as mid-late 3E.
____

WayneTheGame wrote:
Does anything in current production trump the Khorne Berserkers? (C) 1998.

Those Khorne Berzerkers were redone during 3rd Edition, and are newer than the SM Land Speeder. Very modern kit compared to the Warlocks.


Really, if it wasn't around back in 2E, it's not "old". The only question is whether it was released back in the RT days, and it looks like those models are almost all gone or replaced aside for a very few kits.

You mention plastic catachans, what about those metal tallarns and valhallans?

I gotta admit, it is pretty satisfying if the contender for 'oldest space marine' is Dante. Super appropriate!

It's interesting that the Eldar models have held up for how old they are. The Vypers & Grav tank chasis only realy show their age when assembling them, but after that they look great even now.

In terms of currently available - the Eldar range has it.

The Vyper is the oldest current plastic vehicle kit still in use (2nd ed codex has a data sheet in in it)

The Warp Spiders, Phoenix Lords, Avatar, some of the Warlocks are all still current models.

The Space Wolves and the Eldar were literally the first 2 codex ever released at the start of 2nd ed within a week or 2 of each other from memory. Ragnar Blackmane is all that's left of the wolves model wise and he was released during the tail end of RT - much like the elder I mention.

For those that keep mentioning the swooping hawks - they got redone in 3rd ed like most of the aspects but that sculpt has hung around where the others have been redone.

This is a tricky thread because GW has a bunch of random figures (often converted to finecast) floating around for many ranges. The oldest stuff I've seen is late RT or 2nd ed. and most of them have been mentioned.

Eldar have a bunch (I played from around 1992-2004 and half the army never changed).

-Shining Spears themselves are relatively new by Eldar standards (maybe 2001-2002 ish?) but they make use of the old plastic jetbike kit which is maybe from 1992. It's just a small box of metal add-ons to make the aspects.

-Vyper is "old" but was a late arrival in 2nd edition along with the Falcon. It's around the original Sisters of Battle and metal Guardsmen era.

-The Avatar himself is ancient. At least 1993-1994 or so.

-The two center Warlocks are old, easily early 90's.

-The Phoenix Lords are pretty darn old, between RT/2nd edition. Their original sculpts list them as Exarchs and not Phoenix Lords (terminology which was created around 2nd edition). They're quite early 90's.

-Warp Spiders are the only Aspect Warriors with old sculpts but they were a little later than other Aspects initially. They still pre-date the Falcon/Vyper etc.

The rest of the Eldar are late 90's or 3rd ed. and up.

The Marines have a smattering of single metals which definitely age back to the early-to-mid 90's. Njal Stormcaller, the Ragnar Blackmane metal and the Runepriest in Terminator armour are a few.

I have to concur with the thread that there is a very decent chance the Warlock figures may be the oldest which still have a unit entry and are playable pieces.

How old are ork warbugges? It seems a lot of eldar sculpts are old, but still fit the look of the army, but the ork drivers on warbugges don't look like current orks.

Side note that the Avatar is a new sculpt replacing the RT-era Avatar; I see it as roughly contemporary with the resculpted Greater Daemons, before they got their alternate heads.

Ork warbuggies are about 20 years old.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Side note that the Avatar is a new sculpt replacing the RT-era Avatar; I see it as roughly contemporary with the resculpted Greater Daemons, before they got their alternate heads.

Yep, but still 20+ years old. It pre-dated the Greater Daemons at that point slightly. It did replace the more human-sized Avatar from RT (the old guy with the spear). It was around at least 1993-1994. Not exactly a "new" sculpt.

Leman Russ battle tank should be on this list. It's got new sprues, but if you build it like a regular Leman Russ, it's all the same parts as the original.

Leman Russ was a little late, maybe 1995-1996 or so? I forgot when the Imperial Guard codex came out but it was supported by the boxes of metal guardsman and a wave of Leman Russ/Chimaera based plastic vehicles.

It's old but not quite as old as many of the other 2nd ed. throwbacks.

Oh yeah Phoenix Lords have to be it, they are still the the same sculpts I believe from 2nd edition at least (if not RT).

Also yes the Leman Russ and most older IG tanks are from 2nd edition.

Looking at the SoL ’93 catalog, there are a few familiar faces there.

SW HQS (Njal, Ragnar)

The specific warlocks in print don’t seem to be there, although similar ones are.

Going to have to give this one to the Wolves.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Leman Russ battle tank should be on this list. It's got new sprues, but if you build it like a regular Leman Russ, it's all the same parts as the original.

So it still uses the wheels between the armor plates? The new Chimera doesn't.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Leman Russ battle tank should be on this list. It's got new sprues, but if you build it like a regular Leman Russ, it's all the same parts as the original.

So it still uses the wheels between the armor plates? The new Chimera doesn't.

I have old Leman Russes and new Leman Russes. There are, in fact, differences between the kits.

For example, the shape of the turret is very, VERY different.

The first 2nd Codex was Wolves, so unless it hails from RT, it's Ragnar or PA Njal.

The Phoenix Lords are probably only younger by a matter of months.