Mymearan wrote: The question now is if Overkill will go OPP. Hope not since I was planning on purchasing it in October.
I think it is going to depend on what the Genestealer Cultists get in terms of model releases.
This is all wild, unfounded speculation on my part but I'm thinking we'll see the following:
-Box for the "Brutes" with Hammers and/or Picks
-Box for the standard Cultists with Autorifles and options for the Grenade Launchers or Mining Lasers
-A standalone box release of JUST the Overkill contents labeled with the name of the formation, like Kill Team Cassius.
-Some new blister characters/options.
Mymearan wrote: The question now is if Overkill will go OPP. Hope not since I was planning on purchasing it in October.
I think it is going to depend on what the Genestealer Cultists get in terms of model releases.
This is all wild, unfounded speculation on my part but I'm thinking we'll see the following:
-Box for the "Brutes" with Hammers and/or Picks
-Box for the standard Cultists with Autorifles and options for the Grenade Launchers or Mining Lasers
-A standalone box release of JUST the Overkill contents labeled with the name of the formation, like Kill Team Cassius.
-Some new blister characters/options.
Kanluwen wrote: This is all wild, unfounded speculation on my part but I'm thinking we'll see the following:
-Box for the "Brutes" with Hammers and/or Picks
-Box for the standard Cultists with Autorifles and options for the Grenade Launchers or Mining Lasers
-A standalone box release of JUST the Overkill contents labeled with the name of the formation, like Kill Team Cassius.
-Some new blister characters/options.
You don't think there will be a three-armed Hybrid box? Just an autogun box? That would be a shame.
If they don't at least get a vehicule, it would be a real shame. And I hope for proper multikit boxes of cultist (1-2 and 3-4) and aberrants. I don't want an army of monoposed clones
I wonder if we might see some vehicle releases similar to the Deathwatch and Blood Angels stuff - i.e. some IG/AM vehicles with a "Cult Upgrade Sprue" that includes Hybrid vehicle crew and some cult icons. That would be awesome.
I think the Chimera and/or Taurox and the Hydra/Wyvern and Manticore/Deathstrike launcher would be the most likely, as they would probably want a transport or two, and the multi-kits would allow more vehicles to be included in the Codex per SKU.
streetsamurai wrote: If they don't at least get a vehicule, it would be a real shame. And I hope for proper multikit boxes of cultist (1-2 and 3-4) and aberrants. I don't want an army of monoposed clones
While I concur that a multi-part Hybrid box (or two) would be great, you can get at least a little variety out of most of the Hybrid models with some careful chest swaps and weapon swaps. It isn't much, but it helps a little.
As far as a Cult specific vehicle, I think the most likely candidate would be something like a transport/gun truck option (like a more civilian version of the Taurox, which can either be a transport, or given a heavier gun while sacrificing some/all of the transport capacity.)
I wonder if BoLS is tooting their own horn from having the GSC rumour the other day. Now this shows up.
Now will be interesting to see how correct they were. I still can't believe that GSC would get a flyer though. Especially miners. Why would miners have a flyer?
So this means what a pre release this or next weekend and a release next weekend or 2 weeks from now?
I hope that there is more to this than just the basic infantry, command, elites and genestealers, and that there some civilian/mining type equipment/vehicles. I would be disappointed if it was relatively thin and just left to allying with Guard for vehicles.
Ambience 327 wrote: I wonder if we might see some vehicle releases similar to the Deathwatch and Blood Angels stuff - i.e. some IG/AM vehicles with a "Cult Upgrade Sprue" that includes Hybrid vehicle crew and some cult icons. That would be awesome.
I think the Chimera and/or Taurox and the Hydra/Wyvern and Manticore/Deathstrike launcher would be the most likely, as they would probably want a transport or two, and the multi-kits would allow more vehicles to be included in the Codex per SKU.
Out of the things listed, the Chimera is the most likely. I don't see them getting anything "big"--especially not the Basilisk as that box is so damn old and has been Direct Only for quite some time.
Mymearan wrote: The question now is if Overkill will go OPP. Hope not since I was planning on purchasing it in October.
I would guess almost certainly yes. They have already released the marine side of the box as a new box.
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Kanluwen wrote: Out of the things listed, the Chimera is the most likely. I don't see them getting anything "big"--especially not the Basilisk as that box is so damn old and has been Direct Only for quite some time.
The basilisk box got re-factored with the last Chimera update didn't it? I guess that is a long time ago now.
Mymearan wrote: The question now is if Overkill will go OPP. Hope not since I was planning on purchasing it in October.
I would guess almost certainly yes. They have already released the marine side of the box as a new box.
Betrayal at Calth has had all of its components released but is still available. Same with Execution Force.
Kanluwen wrote: Out of the things listed, the Chimera is the most likely. I don't see them getting anything "big"--especially not the Basilisk as that box is so damn old and has been Direct Only for quite some time.
The basilisk box got re-factored with the last Chimera update didn't it? I guess that is a long time ago now.
The Basilisk box got re-factored with the last Chimera update but it is only relatively recently(a year or two ago) that it actually started including the new Chimera frames!
Right now, buying the Basilisk is a great way to get a Basilisk and a vehicle accessory frame for IG as no other box includes it and the Basilisk box has to include it so that you can have a hull mounted Heavy Flamer. The new Chimera frame which includes the hull mounted weapons is the same part that includes the upper hull and the like and is not included with the Basilisk.
I don't think the game will go OOP. It's an actual board game. And the marine half is already less than half the cost of the box so the value isn't huge there. Unless they price the GC crazy (which is possible but doesn't feel likely) the game box won't be much of a "deal" unless you want both forces OR the actual board game.
Please, please don't just be a reboxing of the monopose minis from DWO. I'm hopeful, but not all that hopeful. GW putting effort into xenos, that'd be the day..
notprop wrote: I hope that there is more to this than just the basic infantry, command, elites and genestealers, and that there some civilian/mining type equipment/vehicles. I would be disappointed if it was relatively thin and just left to allying with Guard for vehicles.
Yet that's pretty much all the cult has been since it's inception in 2nd ed. They take over IG regiments and human installations, that's what they do.
Oh goody. Yet another totally not needed release as a quick cash in. God forbid gw would actually fix their main codex books. Its not like chaos, orks, dark eldar, imperial guard or oh tyranids are in dire need of getting fixed
Has nobody pointed out that the teaser for October's battle report in WD is deathwatch vs tyranids? I think we will see the new genestealer cult depicted in that report. Also the Munitorum report teaser was how to handle *redacted* so I'm betting there's a tactics article vs GSC in the next issue as well.
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Motograter wrote: Oh goody. Yet another totally not needed release as a quick cash in. God forbid gw would actually fix their main codex books. Its not like chaos, orks, dark eldar, imperial guard or oh tyranids are in dire need of getting fixed
It's been stated elsewhere that GW is aware of the problems with those books and they're being reworked alongside the 8th edition rules changes and will be updated after the core rulebook next summer.
Motograter wrote: Oh goody. Yet another totally not needed release as a quick cash in. God forbid gw would actually fix their main codex books. Its not like chaos, orks, dark eldar, imperial guard or oh tyranids are in dire need of getting fixed
This is them fixing nids (hopefully if they sort the allies out)
Finally something Xenos. I don't like the GSC personally (not enough to buy it) but I am absolutely happy to see Nids (who I do like) get some love and for diversity sake.
Now GW just needs to release a new Xenos faction and Eldar Exodites and I'll be super happy. As a bonus I would like to see a Necron sub-faction book with lore more in line with that of the Old Cron lore in personality and tactics.
I remember joking years ago that Genestealer Cult was going to come back to 40K before the Sisters of Battle, given how the Cult had far more models and appearances in the lore than SoB ever had.
Poor Sisters players. But, as a 25 year fan of the Genestealer Cult, I love that they've regained their rightful place in the model line.
I had a lot of fun converting the models from DWO. Will be interesting to see what they get that's new. I'm not holding out hope for a true multi-part kit, but some new kits to expand the range will be cool.
I'm really hoping to see some traitor PDF type stuff in here. Whatever happens, though, I'm stoked for this. Planning to do some converting of the official kits, with bits of the plastic Space Hulk "Genestealer" hybrids, and maybe some Guard bits. I also think the Copplestone Castings "Bareheaded Troopers" look a bit culty already.
notprop wrote: I hope that there is more to this than just the basic infantry, command, elites and genestealers, and that there some civilian/mining type equipment/vehicles. I would be disappointed if it was relatively thin and just left to allying with Guard for vehicles.
Yet that's pretty much all the cult has been since it's inception in 2nd ed. They take over IG regiments and human installations, that's what they do.
Take some GCult, add some AM formations from Mont'ka...job's a good 'un. Really, I'd be fine with it.
But I do think some kind of Land Intermediate Mobility Option is very possible.
They did the models from the board game right...unbelievably right if you know the original models well. I lived and breathed those things for a while, and the degree to which they stuck with the old aesthetic just blew me away. Just so many little nods to details and poses from the old Goodwin/Olley minis. That makes me think they'll do this whole release right and give us a car. Finally.
Gonna be interesting to see how GW approaches this on the models side. Of the recent "allies" releases the Death watch and Harlequins only had a single infantry box along with a few characters and a vehicle, of course the DW benefited a lot from the cross compatibility of the Marine range. The two Mechanicus forces both had four kits each with most of them being dual builds. Hopefully its a combo of the Mechanicus(good number of new kits with dual builds) and Death watch(uses some existing kits with a upgrade sprue) release strategys using Imperial guard and maybe some Tyranid models to bulk out the list.
Rumors right now are pointing toward re-boxing of the DW:O models, as well as:
- Infantry Box
- Character
- 1 Vehicle
- 1 Flyer
!!!
Can't wait to see what mining-y stuff they come up with for the vehicle and flyer.
Some have speculated that a plastic flyer similar to Forgeworld's Imperial Navy Arvus Lighter would be awesome, and I am inclined to agree.
ruhe.bryan wrote: Rumors right now are pointing toward re-boxing of the DW:O models, as well as:
- Infantry Box
- Character
- 1 Vehicle
- 1 Flyer
!!!
Can't wait to see what mining-y stuff they come up with for the vehicle and flyer.
Some have speculated that a plastic flyer similar to Forgeworld's Imperial Navy Arvus Lighter would be awesome, and I am inclined to agree.
Whose rumors?
Because the only reliable rumormonger has never mentioned vehicles.
Very excited about this !
It will probably be my first xenos army.
I can't understand what is said in the short video, do they actually say something understandable for an English native speaker ?
ruhe.bryan wrote: Rumors right now are pointing toward re-boxing of the DW:O models, as well as:
- Infantry Box
- Character
- 1 Vehicle
- 1 Flyer
!!!
Can't wait to see what mining-y stuff they come up with for the vehicle and flyer.
Some have speculated that a plastic flyer similar to Forgeworld's Imperial Navy Arvus Lighter would be awesome, and I am inclined to agree.
Whose rumors?
Because the only reliable rumormonger has never mentioned vehicles.
Bols has said that: here and there source is industry insiders, not sure how reliable it is
ruhe.bryan wrote: Rumors right now are pointing toward re-boxing of the DW:O models, as well as:
- Infantry Box
- Character
- 1 Vehicle
- 1 Flyer
!!!
Can't wait to see what mining-y stuff they come up with for the vehicle and flyer.
Some have speculated that a plastic flyer similar to Forgeworld's Imperial Navy Arvus Lighter would be awesome, and I am inclined to agree.
Whose rumors?
Because the only reliable rumormonger has never mentioned vehicles.
If I recall correctly, Hastings only ever called it a Harlequin-sized release, and didn't give any details beyond that. I don't think we have any solid info yet one way or another. I do think a ground transport is much more likely than a flyer, but we'll see.
although I sadly suspect it will be reboxed tyranid genestealers plus DW:O and no vehicles or flyers
Oh, I'd love a L.I.M.O., but if the army is very strong at infiltration as the formations from the board game suggest, I'll happily take that, mix in some AM formations and call it a day.
It will be interesting to see how they handle Purestrains in terms of cost and options. They still have all those special heads on the sprues, and those could represent worthwhile options for a unit desperately in need of a boost and some zest. Or maybe we're looking at brand new Purestrain minis, since the board game version had some minor re-designs to bring them closer to the originals.
godardc wrote: Very excited about this !
It will probably be my first xenos army.
I can't understand what is said in the short video, do they actually say something understandable for an English native speaker ?
I think they say "No-one will survive... our ascension".
although I sadly suspect it will be reboxed tyranid genestealers plus DW:O and no vehicles or flyers
Oh, I'd love a L.I.M.O., but if the army is very strong at infiltration as the formations from the board game suggest, I'll happily take that, mix in some AM formations and call it a day.
It will be interesting to see how they handle Purestrains in terms of cost and options. They still have all those special heads on the sprues, and those could represent worthwhile options for a unit desperately in need of a boost and some zest. Or maybe we're looking at brand new Purestrain minis, since the board game version had some minor re-designs to bring them closer to the originals.
I bet we see a box of 5 or 6x purestrain genestealers in the resculpt from deathwatch overkill, maybe with some unique weapon biomorphs, for $30-$35 USD. Just speculating.
notprop wrote: I hope that there is more to this than just the basic infantry, command, elites and genestealers, and that there some civilian/mining type equipment/vehicles. I would be disappointed if it was relatively thin and just left to allying with Guard for vehicles.
Oh how I wish they'd do this. So many opportunities for cool stuff; mental gothic-styled skull-encrusted JCB diggers, jury-rigged "tractor-tanks" with weapons & armour plates bolted to mining vehicles, for fliers(if they must) we could get those Prospector Pods used at Cinchare Minehead in the Eisenhorn novels. And it would have a lot of cross-sale potential for a Xenos release - GSCult players would want them, obviously, but also IG collectors, terrain & diorama builders, INQ28 folks, and Ork kitbashers.
Of course it won't happen, we'll get a Deathwatch style release with the OK stuff in a box, a character blister, and a couple of boxes of infantry. Which is absolutely better than nothing, nobody's staring down any gifthorse gullets here, but the minifaction approach does have its downsides.
godardc wrote: Very excited about this !
It will probably be my first xenos army.
I can't understand what is said in the short video, do they actually say something understandable for an English native speaker ?
I think they say "No-one will survive... our ascension".
I can see a release of the character sprue then a couple boxes. As for transport, either the limo, or also old school and fitting for miners, the Termite.
If this was the make up your outlandish rumor thread I would jump right past the Arvus and go for Aquila Lander!
Still, i must admit I'm wondering if they will do a limo.
Please be a limo, or good truck type vehicle.
Given the number of times 'bulk haulers' or 'cargo eights' (or some other weird way of not saying 'trucks' ) show up in Black Library fiction, I'd expect to see some sort of wheeled cargo hauler for the Cult.
I mean, didn't GW just release cargo containers? It's almost like they had a plan...
Do we ever think the Kroot Mercenaries will get released? I mean we didn't think the GSC had any hope in hell just a year ago even. I want my Kroot mercenaries or a Tau auxiliaries army. Or even better new Xenos.
Gamgee wrote: Do we ever think the Kroot Mercenaries will get released? I mean we didn't think the GSC had any hope in hell just a year ago even. I want my Kroot mercenaries or a Tau auxiliaries army. Or even better new Xenos.
It seems ATM that the idea is that GW is going back to their old 2nd ideas. Ad Mec was a huge hit, and the Genestealer Cult seems like it's being well received also.
Kroot Mercs is more like IG Armoured Company. Feels more like something up FW's ally ATM when they aren't making 30k releases. My own Speculation, But I almost would expect Squats- Erm. I mean "Homo sapiens rotundus" before seeing the Kroot Mercs come back.
Based on recent events, the teaser should be for preorder on Saturday, 17th of September. It used to be a video trailer on mondays but that was before the return of monthly WD. The new Web team should be posting teasers soon, on FB and the Regimental Standard website.
The Necromunda rumor was a one-line thing on Natfka. He is usually quite okay with rumors that will happen soon. So it could be true.
Except I didn't like FW's kroot models. I felt they were very uninspired look wise and rules wise. I feel the Kroot need to get more of a feral dinosaur look to them. Just slightly tone down the avian and tone up the lizard aspect and then drop their ban on advanced tech.
Okay you can have the default Kroot, but make some of them cool like a Predator ripooff. Tau stealth suits and plasma blasters on their shoulders and high tech wrist blades. Up the super human hunter aspect of them more. Right now the ban on all high tech gear is really limiting what can be done in a science fiction setting. The Kroot need to be supplied with tech they can't make themselves and crave for hunting bigger and better targets to adapt themselves. Make these super Kroot ripped from their superior genetics the shapers weave into them since they have more broad targets. It would also be cool to see more mystical and religious warp aspects to the Kroot. They could be a highly customizable force that doesn't need a lot of mini's and is meant to ally with a wide array of factions but would be the first Tau battle brothers. In lore the Predators use hunting animals to help them take down some quarry I could see that also being used. Certain animals they use that they couldn't just self morph themselves into. Since Kroot are stronger than Tau and these would be even more so than regular Kroot they could be given decent 3 or 4 up saves. Some would be Kroot Hunters and some Kroot Prowlers dual kit depending on range or melee ones. I would like to see the Greater Knarloc back in as well but less giant chicken. I know it breaks the lore but I would rather rule of cool prevails so the Kroot can keep getting some support here and there.
I would also like to see more Kroot animal forms as well that are more dinosaur inspired.
I just know there is a cool way to do the Kroot like the GSC minis.
Insurgency Walker wrote: If this was the make up your outlandish rumor thread I would jump right past the Arvus and go for Aquila Lander!
I would love a plastic one of either of those, provided it could be back-converted to Imperial. I own an Arvus myself, it was a bear of a build and it's only ever seen play once, but I love the design. Likewise the Aquila, never bought the FW kit because it was reputedly horrendous to build, gimme a plastic one and I'll definitely change that.
I'm fairly sure Hastings expected a vehicle as part of this release, the possibility of a Limo was mentioned, but I don't think he was specific about it.
Gen.Steiner wrote: Yay! Genestealer Cults! Now I'd like to see Arbites in plastic please
Now you're just being greedy.
No, no, greedy is when I also call for Sisters of Battle in plastic!
midget_overlord wrote:Isn't there a rumour for Necromunda coming soon?
...
Cross fingers for Arbites in the basic box, the limited edition enforcer with dog that can find more use soon too.
Now that would be in-cred-i-ble. I need a higher paying job!
As far as the Genestealer Cult rumours go, I think it's inevitable that a Limousine of some sort appears, because it's such an iconic element of the Cult from Rogue Trader/2nd Edition days. Either that, or a Unimog style utility vehicle, or perhaps a home-made tank type thing, like the crazy "armoured" vehicles seen in Syria, Spain and other places. Heh. Maybe even AV10/10/9! Now that'd be amusing.
How is Limo's going to go with a mining theme if the rumours are true? I don't know, Limos seem goofy right now. I guess for the time, it was cool but now, I couldn't take a Limo serious in todays environment.
Unless done properly, I can't see a Limo being cool. All we will get is lousy rules, and then people complaining the rules suck and then others will chime in and say "what do you expect? It's a Limo, not a tank, of course it will be shot up in one hit."
Or others will say "it's a freaking Limo, how is it a tank, this is not right".
So unless it can be done properly, I think they should not be adding a Limo to GSC.
Davor wrote: How is Limo's going to go with a mining theme if the rumours are true? I don't know, Limos seem goofy right now. I guess for the time, it was cool but now, I couldn't take a Limo serious in todays environment.
Unless done properly, I can't see a Limo being cool. All we will get is lousy rules, and then people complaining the rules suck and then others will chime in and say "what do you expect? It's a Limo, not a tank, of course it will be shot up in one hit."
Or others will say "it's a freaking Limo, how is it a tank, this is not right".
So unless it can be done properly, I think they should not be adding a Limo to GSC.
so it'd be AV 10 all round, like a trukk...works well enough for orks...
I'd guess, that nostalgia is a major factor, when it comes to anticipating GCs limos.
I wouldn't be pleased, if limo is the vehicle we get. It would work in a necromunda enviroment, but on the 40k table it will look silly next to almost all other tech. Like toys from different manufacturers on the same shelf of Toys R Us.
An armoured staff-track like the ones shown in the Gaunt's Ghosts' series would work. 4 wheels and a set of tracks, armoured, with a transport capacity of 6, AV 11/10/10, fast. Give it a heavy stubber and you have a poor man's Rhino. Of a sort.
Davor wrote: How is Limo's going to go with a mining theme if the rumours are true? I don't know, Limos seem goofy right now. I guess for the time, it was cool but now, I couldn't take a Limo serious in todays environment.
Unless done properly, I can't see a Limo being cool. All we will get is lousy rules, and then people complaining the rules suck and then others will chime in and say "what do you expect? It's a Limo, not a tank, of course it will be shot up in one hit."
Or others will say "it's a freaking Limo, how is it a tank, this is not right".
So unless it can be done properly, I think they should not be adding a Limo to GSC.
The limo seems goofy until your think about how the GS cult operates. They like to move up the social scale! When vice chancellor fancy pants finally comes out of his GS closet his resources can easily include tools from his everyday life, an armored limo, and ground troops that have been breeding in a secluded area, mining hab. It is the disconnect between the two that makes it kind of spooky from a story perspective. Although I will not be disappointed by a nice ore hauler or container hauler I can stick one of the new containers on.
I must admit I never envisioned having a 40k gut truck but I see a mobile noodle stand in my GS future.
You know what I'd like?
If the cult codex release kits didn't have anything to do with the Ghosar Quintus storyline.
As in, the GQ unit types are all in there and you can use the rules to make the GQ kits into legal units, but the models with the codex are not in mining gear and are instead regular citizens of a typical Civilised World.
Davor wrote: How is Limo's going to go with a mining theme if the rumours are true? I don't know, Limos seem goofy right now. I guess for the time, it was cool but now, I couldn't take a Limo serious in todays environment.
Unless done properly, I can't see a Limo being cool. All we will get is lousy rules, and then people complaining the rules suck and then others will chime in and say "what do you expect? It's a Limo, not a tank, of course it will be shot up in one hit."
Or others will say "it's a freaking Limo, how is it a tank, this is not right".
So unless it can be done properly, I think they should not be adding a Limo to GSC.
The limo seems goofy until your think about how the GS cult operates. They like to move up the social scale! When vice chancellor fancy pants finally comes out of his GS closet his resources can easily include tools from his everyday life, an armored limo, and ground troops that have been breeding in a secluded area, mining hab. It is the disconnect between the two that makes it kind of spooky from a story perspective. Although I will not be disappointed by a nice ore hauler or container hauler I can stick one of the new containers on.
I must admit I never envisioned having a 40k gut truck but I see a mobile noodle stand in my GS future.
Thank you for the explanation. Greatly appreciated. Thing is, 40K now is not really a skirmish game anymore so unless you are role playing or having scenarios when has anyone fought Mr Fancy Pants come into play?
Another thing I guess what bugs me is, I really want Genestealers that are not just form humans. Where are the Orkstealers? Where are the Edlarstealers, or Taustealers. I am sure a Limo wouldn't not be in the setting for Mr Fancy pants in those edition. Oh wait, an Ork Limo. Now that would be awesome.
Davor wrote: How is Limo's going to go with a mining theme if the rumours are true? I don't know, Limos seem goofy right now. I guess for the time, it was cool but now, I couldn't take a Limo serious in todays environment.
Unless done properly, I can't see a Limo being cool. All we will get is lousy rules, and then people complaining the rules suck and then others will chime in and say "what do you expect? It's a Limo, not a tank, of course it will be shot up in one hit."
Or others will say "it's a freaking Limo, how is it a tank, this is not right".
So unless it can be done properly, I think they should not be adding a Limo to GSC.
Like I said, it's a mining limo.
Everyone knows that the limousine is the epitome of practical mining vehicles. That long, unevenly weighted compartment in the middle is perfect for carrying ore, while the low ground clearance ensures that devastating underground drafts don't tip it over.
Davor wrote: How is Limo's going to go with a mining theme if the rumours are true? I don't know, Limos seem goofy right now. I guess for the time, it was cool but now, I couldn't take a Limo serious in todays environment.
Unless done properly, I can't see a Limo being cool. All we will get is lousy rules, and then people complaining the rules suck and then others will chime in and say "what do you expect? It's a Limo, not a tank, of course it will be shot up in one hit."
Or others will say "it's a freaking Limo, how is it a tank, this is not right".
So unless it can be done properly, I think they should not be adding a Limo to GSC.
The limo seems goofy until your think about how the GS cult operates. They like to move up the social scale! When vice chancellor fancy pants finally comes out of his GS closet his resources can easily include tools from his everyday life, an armored limo, and ground troops that have been breeding in a secluded area, mining hab. It is the disconnect between the two that makes it kind of spooky from a story perspective. Although I will not be disappointed by a nice ore hauler or container hauler I can stick one of the new containers on.
I must admit I never envisioned having a 40k gut truck but I see a mobile noodle stand in my GS future.
Thank you for the explanation. Greatly appreciated. Thing is, 40K now is not really a skirmish game anymore so unless you are role playing or having scenarios when has anyone fought Mr Fancy Pants come into play?
Another thing I guess what bugs me is, I really want Genestealers that are not just form humans. Where are the Orkstealers? Where are the Edlarstealers, or Taustealers. I am sure a Limo wouldn't not be in the setting for Mr Fancy pants in those edition. Oh wait, an Ork Limo. Now that would be awesome.
Ork's actually prove to be horrible hosts due to their special biology and fighting social structure, they tend to be a more stopgap measure for genestealers to move elsewhere. Tau would however work I believe, unsure of Eldar.
The Cults represented in most of the fluff are hidden in human settlements. Hard enough hiding a Hybrid, let's alone an Ork or Tau hybrid! That's why you won't see models.
If it's a limo I have a feeling they have made a terrible mistake and will release a goofy model that doesn't fit the existing range. I'll wait until I see it before giving my final judgement though.
I vaguely recall something about elder hybrids being a rare thing due to the slow reproduction rate and close social community within elder culture. It would take too long for the multiple generations to finally spawn a purestrain that the cult would be found before it could spread far enough to be a threat. Orcs used to have hybrid models, but that was back when gs cults could also worship chaos... So before the change to Orc physiology.
I vaguely recall something about elder hybrids being a rare thing due to the slow reproduction rate and close social community within elder culture. It would take too long for the multiple generations to finally spawn a purestrain that the cult would be found before it could spread far enough to be a threat. Orcs used to have hybrid models, but that was back when gs cults could also worship chaos... So before the change to Orc physiology.
What the hundreds or thousand years it takes Nids to travel and they don't have time?
BrookM wrote: There is also a short story that involves him discovering a Genestealer Cult over at a brothel.
No, that's a Slaaneshi cult, and he sorts it out by calling in an artillery strike on it because the Madam is a daemonhost.
The daemon later re-appears in another story and remembers him, and his unorthodox method of daemon-dismissal.
There is also that story, but this one involved a Genestealer Cult in a brothel, as the top girl he was talking to knew his name, despite only mentioning it to the person downstairs, thus concluding a hive mind is involved. She also had extra limbs IIRC.
BrookM wrote: There is also a short story that involves him discovering a Genestealer Cult over at a brothel.
No, that's a Slaaneshi cult, and he sorts it out by calling in an artillery strike on it because the Madam is a daemonhost.
The daemon later re-appears in another story and remembers him, and his unorthodox method of daemon-dismissal.
There is also that story, but this one involved a Genestealer Cult in a brothel, as the top girl he was talking to knew his name, despite only mentioning it to the person downstairs, thus concluding a hive mind is involved. She also had extra limbs IIRC.
Ooh, OK, I might not have read that one. My apologies!
Fluffwise they could make this range more classy because the OK cult is set in the "past", and supposedly represent one of the first encounters of a GSC, i I remember corectly.
So the new range could represent how the cults have developed a more effective way to infiltrate high society instead of miner serf communities.
IMO that is the only way to make the limo plausible, but it would also be a poor choise if they alienate the nice OK cult from this new range.
Personally I can imagine them getting a Taurox with an extra uniqe sprue including some alien weaponary, an alien com-relay a plow, and some defaced imperial symbols.
But the cults don't use Tyranid weaponry - apart from, you know, Genestealers - because they don't have access to it. They use autoguns, and stubbers, and las weapons, and suborned PDF and Arbites and Enforcers and so on.
Gen.Steiner wrote: But the cults don't use Tyranid weaponry - apart from, you know, Genestealers - because they don't have access to it. They use autoguns, and stubbers, and las weapons, and suborned PDF and Arbites and Enforcers and so on.
Essentially, they use anything they can get their grubby mitts on depending where they are in society and what they can safely sneak away, if they can somehow manage to stealSentinals and Leman Russ you can tell they'd do it.
BrookM wrote: There is also a short story that involves him discovering a Genestealer Cult over at a brothel.
No, that's a Slaaneshi cult, and he sorts it out by calling in an artillery strike on it because the Madam is a daemonhost.
The daemon later re-appears in another story and remembers him, and his unorthodox method of daemon-dismissal.
There is also that story, but this one involved a Genestealer Cult in a brothel, as the top girl he was talking to knew his name, despite only mentioning it to the person downstairs, thus concluding a hive mind is involved. She also had extra limbs IIRC.
Ooh, OK, I might not have read that one. My apologies!
It seems there are a lot of brothels in those stories
Hopefully it will be like deathwatch. Repackage every imperial guard kit with an extra Sprue, then sell it. And maybe some of the vehicles and maybe one or two unique characters. You can tell I'm being sarcastic, right?
I would love to see representation of nonhuman Genestealer cults/hybrids, like Bugboyz and the Tau cult that the Inquisitor Water Caste Envoy uncovered, but they're just too small a part of the background to get any models or rules. It's the same principle that means Chaos cultists are invariably human-baseline
no idea what the flying model could be. A flying patriarch like the old Kenner Aliens toys would be fun, I'd be quite happy to let them have a Taurox or something, meybe even a generic vehicle statline that can be modified
"Indications of such things existing" obtained, O mighty custodian of permissible discussion
If you want to get snarky, Bell of Lost Souls does not exactly equate to "indications of such things existing". It equates to Bell of Lost Souls jumping on board the hype train with their usual method of "anonymous industry insider source told us X/Y/Z" covering up a wishlist.
Honestly Kan, stop being the thought police. A rumour is a rumour, the source lends credibility but it is still perfectly fair game to discuss a rumour in a news and rumour thread.
Trying to decide what other people choose to discuss, when it's actually on topic, is a new low for you.
Azreal13 wrote: Honestly Kan, stop being the thought police. A rumour is a rumour, the source lends credibility but it is still perfectly fair game to discuss a rumour in a news and rumour thread.
Trying to decide what other people choose to discuss, when it's actually on topic, is a new low for you.
Bols is the worst place for rumours. How many times have plastic sisters appeared on that place?
Seriously I don't understand why it's so popular. It's riddled with madness..
I very much doubt the flyer unless it's some kind of flying dump truck
Azreal13 wrote: Honestly Kan, stop being the thought police. A rumour is a rumour, the source lends credibility but it is still perfectly fair game to discuss a rumour in a news and rumour thread.
However that's the rub isn't it?
A rumor is a rumor, except when it's an uncredited rumor from BoLS/Naftka/Faeit. Then it's just trashposting.
"Indications of such things existing" obtained, O mighty custodian of permissible discussion
If you want to get snarky, Bell of Lost Souls does not exactly equate to "indications of such things existing". It equates to Bell of Lost Souls jumping on board the hype train with their usual method of "anonymous industry insider source told us X/Y/Z" covering up a wishlist.
Well to be fair, this post was made before Warhammer TV put out that video. If anything this video is actually confirming what GW posted a few days before. That doesn't mean BoLS is still correct. For all we know this could be a teaser for the upcoming Deathwatch video game and not a codex since 75Hastings69 said now it might not even come out this year.
"Indications of such things existing" obtained, O mighty custodian of permissible discussion
If you want to get snarky, Bell of Lost Souls does not exactly equate to "indications of such things existing". It equates to Bell of Lost Souls jumping on board the hype train with their usual method of "anonymous industry insider source told us X/Y/Z" covering up a wishlist.
Well to be fair, this post was made before Warhammer TV put out that video. If anything this video is actually confirming what GW posted a few days before. That doesn't mean BoLS is still correct.
That's certainly fair, but how often does BoLS just randomly throw out things with no context?
Rhetorical question; it's all the damn time.
For all we know this could be a teaser for the upcoming Deathwatch video game and not a codex since 75Hastings69 said now it might not even come out this year.
Space Hulk: Deathwing isn't going to be getting "teasers". They've been in full blown hype mode for a month or so now, PC release is in November IIRC.
The BoLS 'rumour' is just an amalgam of various wishlisting posts, and generic enough to maybe ring true. I wouldn't put any stock in it. Also, you can't do 'logical reboxes' of stuff on the sprue. It IS one sprue.
That's certainly fair, but how often does BoLS just randomly throw out things with no context?
Rhetorical question; it's all the damn time.
So true. Can't argue with you here.
For all we know this could be a teaser for the upcoming Deathwatch video game and not a codex since 75Hastings69 said now it might not even come out this year.
Space Hulk: Deathwing isn't going to be getting "teasers". They've been in full blown hype mode for a month or so now, PC release is in November IIRC.
I can be wrong here, but isn't this Warhammer TV new and the first time they did anything like this? I mean usually we get teasers on the GW website when a new product or codex coming out.
So unless I am wrong and can very well be, this Warhammer TV is doing something new that hasn't been done by GW in a long time. Either hyping up a new codex not through the GW website or hyping up a computer game which I never seen them do either.
How did GW introduce Deathwatch Death masque? Through Warhammer TV or through the GW website?
I like that response. Anyway we will actually know more tomorrow. Shops are going to get the preorder list within the next 24h and hopefully a kind soul will leak it then.
You know when I was reading this thread I kept asking myself "Who the hell said anything about limos?" and then I googled "genestealer cult" and the first result I see suggested is "limos"... I can't believe this was actually a thing.
And considering how Games Workshop seems to be bringing back their retro units and styles, I think this is actually a serious possibility. I imagine they'll look like those third party cars for 40k that were made in the last year or so.
Which would be silly, I agree. But the funny thing is (as it was said earlier in this thread) this is something that could actually make sense in the story, but on the same level as a noodle cart.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that Genestealer noodle vendors are entirely within established lore, and I would definitely have a good laugh with it .
I think it will be pretty cool to bring back such a classic part of 40k. While I will NOT be getting any GSC stuff for myself, I've got a friend who will be very interested in this, as he ran a Cult back in the day when they were a thing.
Azreal13 wrote: Something like this could embody the spirit of the limo, without necessarily looking too out of place
I was thinking of using the Tarox (sorry spelling), cutting it in half but never could figure out what to use for the middle and the "limo" for stealers.
Azreal13 wrote: Honestly Kan, stop being the thought police. A rumour is a rumour, the source lends credibility but it is still perfectly fair game to discuss a rumour in a news and rumour thread.
Trying to decide what other people choose to discuss, when it's actually on topic, is a new low for you.
Problem is if you start discussing wishlist-clickbaits there's not much concrete to talk about. I could say GW is going to release 40k 9th ed on 2018 and it's about as useful.
Since this is still a mining themed list. I'd love to see a transport type vehicle like the haves breaching drill for gene stealer cults, that allows ally units to use the tunnel to no scatter deep strike anywhere the drill comes up.
I'd also like to go full "alien" themed and see a return of the sentinel power lifter and maybe a dog themed genesteler beast type.
This may be of interest to the thread. It was posted on the Warhammer 40,000 FB page, and I assume is about GSC as the BA books have already been announced. Like the page and let's find out!
This may be of interest to the thread. It was posted on the Warhammer 40,000 FB page, and I assume is about GSC as the BA books have already been announced. Like the page and let's find out!
Where can we go to get 40 000 unlikes? Just kidding if people don't see the sticking tongue out.
As for unannounced book, what from Black Library? Have no interest in that at all. Now if it was 8th edition that would have been something.
Gen.Steiner wrote: No, it's a rulebook - at least that's what I took from it...!
You mean the Genestealer Cult codex? I see an Imperial Aqualis (spelling?) so GSC never occurred to me at all. Something Imperial was my guess. That is why I thought a Black Library novel or something like that.
I was just waiting to points-score off my post... the aquila still didn't mean it was certain to be Imperial, just that's stock 40K trappings. Also, Rule #1, Davor. ;-)
JohnnyHell wrote: I was just waiting to points-score off my post... the aquila still didn't mean it was certain to be Imperial, just that's stock 40K trappings. Also, Rule #1, Davor. ;-)
I know, I was just having fun. Appologies if I have offended.
tetrisphreak wrote: is that a slaaneshi incursion over planet Fenris? oh no!
Slaanesh is busy trying to eat the Eldar/Dark Eldar at the moment. I hope we'll see a campaign for Eldar&Dark Eldar Vs Daemons in the Webway and Commorragh though
JohnnyHell wrote: I was just waiting to points-score off my post... the aquila still didn't mean it was certain to be Imperial, just that's stock 40K trappings. Also, Rule #1, Davor. ;-)
I know, I was just having fun. Appologies if I have offended.
So I was thinking over the weekend, and something occurred to me. We have seen it stated that the Overkill models will be repackaged as separate kits, and that there will also be "1 infantry kit" released alongside that. Many of us have been thinking that this would be a multi-part Hybrid kit (similar to the Deathwatch releases - we got the Overkill models plus a Deathwatch Kill Team).
However, what if the Hybrids remain limited in their gear (i.e. 1st & 2nd gen are limited to autopistols & rending claws, 3rd and 4th to the autoguns, grenade launchers and mining lasers), and the new Infantry box gives us the one well-established aspect of the cult we have yet to see - Brood Brothers - i.e. the human parents who give birth to Hybrids and remain in the thrall of the Patriarch. They could have basic human stats and access to more different weapon types, and if GW were really savvy, give players something they've been begging for for a long time - Greatcoat Guard.
I know this is mostly wishlisting, but it's not entirely outside the realm of possibility. Just think - humans in greatcoats with IG-style equipment and then icons that can be added on - either GS Cult or Imperial Aquilas. (Maybe even some Chaos stars too, just to make the kit that much more versatile as a Chaos Cultist box as well.)
If they did one kit for GSC in addition to individual boxes of the units from DWOK it would be totally insane to make them "like greatcoat guard". They'd have to tie in with the industrial theme of the rest of the range. I don't see it happening.
Yeah, I don't see it being anything to do with Brood Brothers, as they're eminently convertable.
DW:OK sprue release seems possible, though limiting in terms of driving big unit size sales:
- Patriarch, Magus and Primus is one sprue.
- Troops sprue - 2 Aberrants, 1 mining laser, 1 grenade launcher, 6 Neophytes, 6 Acolytes - not great for making units on its own.
A re-cut set of sprues from Overkill would fit the bill though.
As far as a new infantry box goes, I bet you it'll be multipart cultists with stuff like heavy stubbers and the like. Brood Brothers would be ace, bonus points if they include female figures!
H.B.M.C. wrote: Why would you re-cut the DOK sprue and release multi-part kits?
Why would you release Kill Team Cassius and a multi-part Veteran kit?
They could release the Patriarch, Magus, and the Primus as one boxed set and then the other components as another in addition to the rest--or just release the DWOK stuff in a single box named the same as the overall formation(like Kill Team Cassius was), with the rules for that formation included.
Kanluwen wrote: Why would you release Kill Team Cassius and a multi-part Veteran kit?
Was Kill-Team Cassius re-cut? No. Of course it wasn't.
Seeing as I've built my stuff ages ago and don't have sprues handy nor can you get sprue breakdowns via the GW store, I don't have access to the exact breakdown of the frames.
I guess these made sense to re-release as they're characterful models wholly different to the Errant armour kit.
I'm very excited to see what GS Cult codex holds... can't even be disappointed, as if it's poop I still have a small horde of Hybrids I never thought I'd own or see minis as good as!
They'll have to if they intend it to be a legit faction and make add-on sales to DW:OK owners. Also because the numbers per sprue are weird, as I posted before. We'll get *something*.
And you can hardly call the things they might repack 'crap', now! They're beautiful miniatures.
Kanluwen wrote: Why would you release Kill Team Cassius and a multi-part Veteran kit?
Was Kill-Team Cassius re-cut? No. Of course it wasn't.
Seeing as I've built my stuff ages ago and don't have sprues handy nor can you get sprue breakdowns via the GW store, I don't have access to the exact breakdown of the frames.
Heavens fething forbid right?
They were not recut. Built a set from overkill and checked out mah buddies KT cassius kit.
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streetsamurai wrote: Damn, that's worrying. I really hope that they gave us real kits, and not only repacked crap.
Odds are we will get both, so I wouldn't worry too much.
JohnnyHell wrote: They'll have to if they intend it to be a legit faction and make add-on sales to DW:OK owners. Also because the numbers per sprue are weird, as I posted before. We'll get *something*.
And you can hardly call the things they might repack 'crap', now! They're beautiful miniatures.
Agreed, that the minis per se are far from crap, but they are crappy of your intention is to make a full blown (or even allied) army, since they are barely any customisation possible.
Until a reliable rumormonger chimes in, we really have no idea what form the miniatures will take. I believe Hastings' original comment referenced a "Harlequin-sized release." To me, that suggests something more substantial than the board game sprues. But who knows?
At the very least, I *would think* that if Aberrants are to be a unit in the codex, we'll get some kind of proper box for them instead of an odd mini or two on the board game hybrid sprues. But again...who knows.
Frankly this stuff probably affects me less than most of you. I'm sitting on over 100 painted metal Hybrids, a few dozen painted Purestrains, a few unpainted metals still kicking around, and the board game stuff. I'm really just in for the special edition codex, any new units (Aberrants?), and the L.I.M.O. if it happens (although I also already have converted Ork Trukks that I may be able to rep as the new vehicle too).
I'm not expecting Brood Brothers in the codex. Not in the era of Cherrypickhammer.
gorgon wrote: Until a reliable rumormonger chimes in, we really have no idea what form the miniatures will take. I believe Hastings' original comment referenced a "Harlequin-sized release." To me, that suggests something more substantial than the board game sprues. But who knows?
At the very least, I *would think* that if Aberrants are to be a unit in the codex, we'll get some kind of proper box for them instead of an odd mini or two on the board game hybrid sprues. But again...who knows.
Frankly this stuff probably affects me less than most of you. I'm sitting on over 100 painted metal Hybrids, a few dozen painted Purestrains, a few unpainted metals still kicking around, and the board game stuff. I'm really just in for the special edition codex, any new units (Aberrants?), and the L.I.M.O. if it happens (although I also already have converted Ork Trukks that I may be able to rep as the new vehicle too).
I'm not expecting Brood Brothers in the codex. Not in the era of Cherrypickhammer.
I would hope for something akin to the Spawn kit for Aberrants. A few basic torsos with a ton of options for mutations would be awesome!
gorgon wrote: At the very least, I *would think* that if Aberrants are to be a unit in the codex, we'll get some kind of proper box for them instead of an odd mini or two on the board game hybrid sprues. But again...who knows.
They could make them an unit upgrade for "normal" hybrids. I somehow doubt a box for them.
gorgon wrote: I'm sitting on over 100 painted metal Hybrids
Woah... only thirty or fourty here... and not all painted...
gorgon wrote: I'm not expecting Brood Brothers in the codex. Not in the era of Cherrypickhammer.
Sadly, this is what I'm expecting too. Though they could (if they were smart) release a cult sprue with parts for a hybrid leader and some gubbins and put it in several boxes (Cadians... maybe Fire Warriors and Orks too... but that's even more wish-listing). But I doubt it.
Personally, I don't really care for brood brothers since 4th generations hybrids already pretty much looked like human. Would be a bit of a wasted kit imo.
^I agree with streetsamurai on that one, can't see much place for Brood Brothers when we already have 3rd and 4th gen Cultists, there'd be little difference.
And I really hope they don't make Aberrants a unit upgrade for 1st and 2nd gen Hybrids the way Trueborn are for Kabalites, that would just piss all over the excellent models they made for them in Overkill.
It's probably safe to say he does. His point was Brood Brothers would be less exciting as a purchase and on the field of battle as they're essentially 'Guardsmen with some purple on'. Fluff-wise there's a gulf. Statline-wise there's little difference. Options-wise, there's of course a world of difference!
Brood Brothers sets would be a corking way for GeeDubs to shift some AM models, by bundling Cadians with a sprue a la Deathwatch. But they likely wont. It's gonna be Skitarii-esque I'd have thought, only without the Adeptus Mechanicus half, and with a Codex that won't 'legally' let you ally with Astra Militarum to represent what they won't sell you models for.
If they somehow bring out a cultist-style rabble box to represent Brood Brothers I'll be all over it for Necromunda use!!!
Oh look I perfectly understand GW's "No woman, no cry"... uhh... I mean "No model, no rules" methodology, and I think that Brood Brothers coming back to 40K is about a 1 in a million shot (even with allies)... but a Hybrid can dream, can't he/she/it?
Yeah, I have very very very very very low expectations for this release.
I'm guessing:
-no genestealer stat changes despite them being woefully underpowered because GW can only errata changes to space marine units.
-Basically no ally capabilities with anything, no change from FAQ. Despite being the 'sneaky infiltrators that inveigle themselves in human society' they will be CTA with everybody, Convenience with Tyranids, making them next to impossible to feasibly create a list.
-IF they get new sprues, then they will be something like cultists with a couple extra weapon options. I'm anticipating just a repackage of DWO in much more expensive individual kits despite this being the absolute 100% worst way to drive sales. GW will then use the astronomically low sales to justify another 6 months in a row of loyalist space marines.
-No transports, no capabilities to work like the GQBroodkin formation works because of infiltrate/stealth/shroud/turn 1 charge. Basic detachment probably grants infiltrate. Sure, we could give them access to chimeras and guard vehicles like every marine faction+inquisition+sisters get access to rhinos and other marine vehicles, but that would require too much thought and effort.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, I have very very very very very low expectations for this release.
I'm guessing:
-no genestealer stat changes despite them being woefully underpowered because GW can only errata changes to space marine units.
-Basically no ally capabilities with anything, no change from FAQ. Despite being the 'sneaky infiltrators that inveigle themselves in human society' they will be CTA with everybody, Convenience with Tyranids, making them next to impossible to feasibly create a list.
-IF they get new sprues, then they will be something like cultists with a couple extra weapon options. I'm anticipating just a repackage of DWO in much more expensive individual kits despite this being the absolute 100% worst way to drive sales. GW will then use the astronomically low sales to justify another 6 months in a row of loyalist space marines.
-No transports, no capabilities to work like the GQBroodkin formation works because of infiltrate/stealth/shroud/turn 1 charge. Basic detachment probably grants infiltrate. Sure, we could give them access to chimeras and guard vehicles like every marine faction+inquisition+sisters get access to rhinos and other marine vehicles, but that would require too much thought and effort.
Yeah, and they'll probably use a new plastic that gives you a rash. Then I'll have to wait in the doctor's office for hours covered in blistering eczema while tuberculosis patients cough on me...
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, I have very very very very very low expectations for this release.
I'm guessing:
-no genestealer stat changes despite them being woefully underpowered because GW can only errata changes to space marine units.
-Basically no ally capabilities with anything, no change from FAQ. Despite being the 'sneaky infiltrators that inveigle themselves in human society' they will be CTA with everybody, Convenience with Tyranids, making them next to impossible to feasibly create a list.
-IF they get new sprues, then they will be something like cultists with a couple extra weapon options. I'm anticipating just a repackage of DWO in much more expensive individual kits despite this being the absolute 100% worst way to drive sales. GW will then use the astronomically low sales to justify another 6 months in a row of loyalist space marines.
-No transports, no capabilities to work like the GQBroodkin formation works because of infiltrate/stealth/shroud/turn 1 charge. Basic detachment probably grants infiltrate. Sure, we could give them access to chimeras and guard vehicles like every marine faction+inquisition+sisters get access to rhinos and other marine vehicles, but that would require too much thought and effort.
Yeah, and they'll probably use a new plastic that gives you a rash. Then I'll have to wait in the doctor's office for hours covered in blistering eczema while tuberculosis patients cough on me...
Geez, thanks man. Just about spit my coffee all over my work computer.
H.B.M.C. wrote: You know that Brood Brothers and Hybrids existed at the same time before, yes? They had different roles.
yeah, but doesn't means I think they need to re-release them again. Same for the limo. I think they both would be wasted kits (for different reason though) as more interesting things could be made for the GCimo.
And I really hope they don't make Aberrants a unit upgrade for 1st and 2nd gen Hybrids the way Trueborn are for Kabalites, that would just piss all over the excellent models they made for them in Overkill.
I think he meant them as models that can be added to existing hybrid units akin to squad leaders or heavy weapon teams. Still, I think they probably will remain an independent unit. The Deathwatch units turned out to be perfect matches for their codex's minimum-sized units so I don't see why they would change things for the Hybrids.
My guess is that the release will probably have a box for each hybrid type from Overkill (Acolyte, Neophyte, and Aberrant) and a new Genestealer kit with the retro-style 'stealers, along with a repack of the character sprues (Magnus and Primus are on the same section if I remember right - Patriarch is by himself). That covers about 6-7 individual kits depending on whether they pack the Magus/Primus together in a box or as separate clampacks, so there probably won't be much else if it is specifically a Harlequin-sized release (Harlequins got 6 kits).
Also I wouldn't be surprised if an Acolyte box also builds a "heavy-weapons squad" variant, as the hybrid carrying a Mining Laser from Overkill has a body (and base) that matches the hunched Acolyte hybrids rather than the human-like Neophyte hybrids.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, I have very very very very very low expectations for this release.
I'm guessing:
-no genestealer stat changes despite them being woefully underpowered because GW can only errata changes to space marine units.
-Basically no ally capabilities with anything, no change from FAQ. Despite being the 'sneaky infiltrators that inveigle themselves in human society' they will be CTA with everybody, Convenience with Tyranids, making them next to impossible to feasibly create a list.
-IF they get new sprues, then they will be something like cultists with a couple extra weapon options. I'm anticipating just a repackage of DWO in much more expensive individual kits despite this being the absolute 100% worst way to drive sales. GW will then use the astronomically low sales to justify another 6 months in a row of loyalist space marines.
-No transports, no capabilities to work like the GQBroodkin formation works because of infiltrate/stealth/shroud/turn 1 charge. Basic detachment probably grants infiltrate. Sure, we could give them access to chimeras and guard vehicles like every marine faction+inquisition+sisters get access to rhinos and other marine vehicles, but that would require too much thought and effort.
If this thread is now going to provide speculation rather than news, can we at least make it slightly more positive speculation?
- While I agree Genestealers likely won't get any stat changes, I do think that the recent formation special rules will become standard and easily obtainable for them. One key part of this being free Stealth; something long needed for 'stealers. On top of this I think we'll see more formations that relax restrictions around infiltrate / outflank / turn 1 assaults, plus more opportunities to gain Shrouded. Generally I believe 'stealers will become more effective via special rules rather than new stat lines.
- New sprues for many of these units are pretty much a given when you take GW's recent history into account. These days the 'sculpting' work on the kits is done in CAD software, with automated systems to produce injection molds at a far lower cost than before. This means the same design elements can be re-used in both snap-fit and standard multi-part kits with little extra work. Turning the Deathwatch GSC designs into AdMech/Harlequin-style individual kits seems the most likely scenario to me.
- Why do we need transports in an army themed around infiltration and sneak-assaults? Basically every army these days has obligatory flyers, transports and overpriced walkers. Personally I'll be way happier to see well-thought-out rules for assaulting from reserve than needing to spend £40 on some AV11 metal box armed with a heavy stubber. The assault grenades, telepathy and turn 1 charge rules in the Ghosar formation show that GW are at least aware of some Tyranid weaknesses, and I like to believe they will continue this approach while keeping a unique character for GSC armies.
- I'm starting to think that people who bemoan the lack of Battle Brothers are mostly annoyed that they can't abuse the horrifically broken scenario of cheap ML2 telepathy alongside huge Codex: Tyranids creatures. AoC with Tyranids is still a pretty good deal and will open up a lot of options once GSCs have a more flexible unit list to build from. If GSC lists continue to focus on the infiltration / early assault niche with multiple cheap units, it could even make some allied Tyranid ground-based lists more viable by giving them time to advance safely.
There was a teaser, confirming the topic exists and is incoming... you speculate until the news cycle completes itself lol...
I have pretty decent confidence in this release. I definitely think it will be a minimum harlequin sized release. I think if they are very, very clever, they will add in options to cross-sell other ranges with an upgrade sprue available. Why in the name of god would you turn your back on selling a ton of dormant IG/AstMil stuff on the back of a harlequin sized release too, with your only big implication to do so being a DW/BA style upgrade sprue?
Regardless, this is a property they 100% wholly own, no major derivation from other sources. The name, the designs, the pedigree, all theirs, and that is exactly the kind of stuff they are focusing on for IP reasons. They put a lot of love into Overkill, I see no reason to expect less, and frankly objectively speaking on the mini front they have been delivering in spades for a good year now.
The only exception to my above logic seems to be CSM of course lol...
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, I have very very very very very low expectations for this release.
Same for me. I have no faith that GW writers can do any good when it comes to Tyranids anymore. So my expectations are low as well. At least I can't get disappointed only surprised in a good way if it happens.
-no genestealer stat changes despite them being woefully underpowered because GW can only errata changes to space marine units.
Just like how I have no faith in GW with Tyranids, I have no faith in GW with Chaos Space Marines either. I find this quote funny because there seems to be more cheer and excitement over the Blood Angel book than the Chaos Space Marine book and they are released side by side. Oh this quote is so true even when it comes to make books and not errata.
-Basically no ally capabilities with anything, no change from FAQ. Despite being the 'sneaky infiltrators that inveigle themselves in human society' they will be CTA with everybody, Convenience with Tyranids, making them next to impossible to feasibly create a list.
Now my cynicism is coming out. While I agree no ally capabilities being changed from the FAQ, this is GW after all and the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing so you never know, it might actually happen.
-No transports, no capabilities to work like the GQBroodkin formation works because of infiltrate/stealth/shroud/turn 1 charge. Basic detachment probably grants infiltrate. Sure, we could give them access to chimeras and guard vehicles like every marine faction+inquisition+sisters get access to rhinos and other marine vehicles, but that would require too much thought and effort.
Funny thing, GW of old we would have said this was possible because GW is greedy and wants our money. Funny enough GW of today does things that says "Please don't give us your money" and of course will not do this and not give out vehicles for the Genestealers.
MajorTom11 wrote: There was a teaser, confirming the topic exists and is incoming... you speculate until the news cycle completes itself lol...
I have pretty decent confidence in this release. I definitely think it will be a minimum harlequin sized release. I think if they are very, very clever, they will add in options to cross-sell other ranges with an upgrade sprue available. Why in the name of god would you turn your back on selling a ton of dormant IG/AstMil stuff on the back of a harlequin sized release too, with your only big implication to do so being a DW/BA style upgrade sprue?
Why in the name of god would they turn their back on selling Chimeras or Rhinos or Razorbacks with Skitarii? Or all the Eldar stuff that could have piggybacked with the Harlequin release itself?
They have a vision for the army. If it includes that dormant IG/AM stuff, then it will. I think it is rather telling that the Genestealer Cult they chose to showcase for Deathwatch Overkill was not one of those "We have tanks, limos, and all kinds of military assets!" but rather just a ragtag bunch with converted mining equipment and looted autoguns from the PDF.
MajorTom11 wrote: Regardless, this is a property they 100% wholly own, no major derivation from other sources. The name, the designs, the pedigree, all theirs, and that is exactly the kind of stuff they are focusing on for IP reasons.
Well, apart from being MASSIVELY influenced by Aliens... but yes, it's more original than derivative. And it's heavy on the nostalgia for long-time fans. That's why I bought two DW:OK boxes without thinking about it!!! Still cheaper than a handful of recasts... SORRY... 'undercoated RARE' originals on eBay. (seriously, there must be more out there than were ever made in Nottingham)
If the release is close enough to be in the next White Dwarf I'll be a happy little subscriber...
They have a vision for the army. If it includes that dormant IG/AM stuff, then it will. I think it is rather telling that the Genestealer Cult they chose to showcase for Deathwatch Overkill was not one of those "We have tanks, limos, and all kinds of military assets!" but rather just a ragtag bunch with converted mining equipment and looted autoguns from the PDF.
Um... I am surprised you are surprised to be honest, the aesthetic and design of the DWOK cultists is exactly inline with the original designs and weapons barring one thing only, the mining laser thingy in place of a conversion beamer. Otherwise the suits and guns are spot on and no surprise at all in any way if you were not expecting a radical deviation from the 2nd ed models. The military angle, and the limo, never actually existed before as models, only fluff and conversions in old 2nd ed compendium rules/wd I think.
So, there is room to expand into the military and limo if they wanted to, but that would be a deviation model wise, the models themselves are wholly consistent with the original designs. I sure hope they take the opportunity to officially branch out the models to militia/military styles and also would be great if some were even civilian'ish too, maybe being able to use the bodies etc as human IG militia on the other side of things too. I doubt they would go that far, but it would be cool
Actually, the minis go one beyond the original models and include things shown in art but not in model form (Aberrants are inspired by the shirtless lump dude in 'that' classic piece of GS Cult art).
MajorTom11 wrote: Regardless, this is a property they 100% wholly own, no major derivation from other sources. The name, the designs, the pedigree, all theirs, and that is exactly the kind of stuff they are focusing on for IP reasons.
Well, apart from being MASSIVELY influenced by Aliens... but yes, it's more original than derivative. And it's heavy on the nostalgia for long-time fans. That's why I bought two DW:OK boxes without thinking about it!!! Still cheaper than a handful of recasts... SORRY... 'undercoated RARE' originals on eBay. (seriously, there must be more out there than were ever made in Nottingham)
If the release is close enough to be in the next White Dwarf I'll be a happy little subscriber...
They are and they aren't... You can't quite draw a straight line between them on IP grounds. I mean clearly they ARE, the timing of their creation alone shows that. But as far as the actual creatures, their reproductive method, the general design and fluff, they are very different beasts other than using human hosts to reproduce. But even that is quite different really when you get into the details. I would maintain Genestealers are very inspired by Aliens in terms of a feel, words snatched from the mood board so to speak, but the specifics were very different and original, I don't think they would ever have an IP problem on that front. Zerg from Tyranids on the other hand....
They have a vision for the army. If it includes that dormant IG/AM stuff, then it will. I think it is rather telling that the Genestealer Cult they chose to showcase for Deathwatch Overkill was not one of those "We have tanks, limos, and all kinds of military assets!" but rather just a ragtag bunch with converted mining equipment and looted autoguns from the PDF.
Um... I am surprised you are surprised to be honest, the aesthetic and design of the DWOK cultists is exactly inline with the original designs and weapons barring one thing only, the mining laser thingy in place of a conversion beamer. Otherwise the suits and guns are spot on and no surprise at all in any way if you were not expecting a radical deviation from the 2nd ed models. The military angle, and the limo, never actually existed before as models, only fluff and conversions in old 2nd ed compendium rules/wd I think.
So, there is room to expand into the military and limo if they wanted to, but that would be a deviation model wise, the models themselves are wholly consistent with the original designs. I sure hope they take the opportunity to officially branch out the models to militia/military styles and also would be great if some were even civilian'ish too, maybe being able to use the bodies etc as human IG militia on the other side of things too. I doubt they would go that far, but it would be cool
It's not "being surprised", like I said I just think it is rather telling that they opted for the generic mining suits and scavenged stuff rather than a full blown military backed Cult like many people seemed to choose to portray in their counts-as GSCs.
My own personal opinion is that they just seem to want to keep the two things separate at this point. They seemed to do similar when it came to the Chaos Cultists that they did for Dark Vengeance; they could have made a more expansive thing there with Guard levels of equipment...but they stuck with the kind of stuff that fluff tends to associate with Planetary Defense Forces rather than Guard(Autoguns/Autopistols and CCWs, Heavy Stubbers, Flamers, Shotguns vs heavy weapon teams, lasguns, etc) and the equipment tended to be the "scavenged armor" rather than the stuff we've seen from FW for their Renegade Guardsmen.
JohnnyHell wrote: Actually, the minis go one beyond the original models and include things shown in art but not in model form (Aberrants are inspired by the shirtless lump dude in 'that' classic piece of GS Cult art).
Aberrants being the one real new addition though right? I guess the Primus too, but that is more of a role than new biology, Patriarch updated to Broodlord aesthetic, but let's be honest the Fat big human face patriarch doesn't quite fit the modern aesthetic. Everything else that existed before, straight line A to B update.
They have a vision for the army. If it includes that dormant IG/AM stuff, then it will. I think it is rather telling that the Genestealer Cult they chose to showcase for Deathwatch Overkill was not one of those "We have tanks, limos, and all kinds of military assets!" but rather just a ragtag bunch with converted mining equipment and looted autoguns from the PDF.
Um... I am surprised you are surprised to be honest, the aesthetic and design of the DWOK cultists is exactly inline with the original designs and weapons barring one thing only, the mining laser thingy in place of a conversion beamer. Otherwise the suits and guns are spot on and no surprise at all in any way if you were not expecting a radical deviation from the 2nd ed models. The military angle, and the limo, never actually existed before as models, only fluff and conversions in old 2nd ed compendium rules/wd I think.
So, there is room to expand into the military and limo if they wanted to, but that would be a deviation model wise, the models themselves are wholly consistent with the original designs. I sure hope they take the opportunity to officially branch out the models to militia/military styles and also would be great if some were even civilian'ish too, maybe being able to use the bodies etc as human IG militia on the other side of things too. I doubt they would go that far, but it would be cool
It's not "being surprised", like I said I just think it is rather telling that they opted for the generic mining suits and scavenged stuff rather than a full blown military backed Cult like many people seemed to choose to portray in their counts-as GSCs.
My own personal opinion is that they just seem to want to keep the two things separate at this point. They seemed to do similar when it came to the Chaos Cultists that they did for Dark Vengeance; they could have made a more expansive thing there with Guard levels of equipment...but they stuck with the kind of stuff that fluff tends to associate with Planetary Defense Forces rather than Guard(Autoguns/Autopistols and CCWs, Heavy Stubbers, Flamers, Shotguns vs heavy weapon teams, lasguns, etc) and the equipment tended to be the "scavenged armor" rather than the stuff we've seen from FW for their Renegade Guardsmen.
*shrug* Just my 2 cents though MT11.
I think the prevalance of military converted cult is simply a consequence of what models were available for people to convert in the first place... we're too many options for human source bodies to work with from GW. I think I am the only one that actually sculpted entire new models and mine took elements from the classic designs and mixed to varying degrees with Ig aesthetics here and there, making for a fairly big mix of no armor to flak. If there were more options for non-IG but non PA/Superhuman/Inq then we would have seen a lot more variety in peoples custom cults. In my mind, the military and mining and civilian could and should all be mixed up together. All representing the successive expansion of the cult kinda thing.
But you could and likely are right I must concede, it makes no sense to miss the opportunity business wise for the cross selling, but it makes total GW sense given their rules history.
Sorry, my speculation is based on realism, taking a look at the effort put into these kinds of mini-dexes when they aren't armies whose underwear goes clank for the emperor.
-I'm looking at the genestealer cult rules as the current "Death Masque" harlequin rules, but in reverse. The generic version of "The Purestrain princelings" is a basic unit of genestealers.
If anything, saying they may gain the PPs free USRs is possible. But GW changes basic stats exceedingly rarely, even when they make next to no sense and their pricing is based on game concepts that no longer exist (5th ed troop tax, for example). With genestealers this is compounded by the flatly superior hybrids, making players scratch their heads and wonder why genestealers bother to continue to evolve when they have 1st and 2nd gen hybrids that take so much less effort to create.
-GW has yet to do this with any unit. Buy a box of chaos cultists, they're the same snap fits from Dark Vengeance. KT Cassius box is the same as the DWO monopose. Genestealer Hybrids have no special weapons as yet, to add them they'd need to create a whole new sprue. Cultists they might do, but it would be completely unprecedented and the only reason to do it would be to add new weapon options. I also wouldn't be surprised to see new weapons added to Aberrants with a heavy box.
-We don't need transports, but remember: All the solutions and good things you mentioned only existed in the Ghosar Quintus Broodkin formation. We *might* get lucky and have GW realize they need those to function in a fluffy manner, and we might also see GW go "no, the reason GQB gets that is because in the fluff they're miners and they're popping out of the ground, so normally these units don't get infiltrate."
-I have no problem with AoC tyranids. BB tyranids makes absolutely no sense and for the most part would just be a way to powergame. The big problem I have is that currently if you don't have tyranids the GQB formation is almost unplayable because of the phenomenally lazy decision to make Genestealer cults ally just like 'nids, ie Come the Apoc with EVERYBODY.
An actual ally matrix entry is required here, and that would require gw to rewrite rules that already exist. By the Principle of GW Rules Inertia, I'll be pleasantly surprised by this but expect the opposite.
GSC should be
Armies of the Imperium - Convenience. They're designed around infiltrating human societies. I'm sorry you lumped the hyper-paranoid super space nazis in with the regular humans, but with the loads of fluff involving blood brothers, GSC need to be convenience with Imperium.
Eldar/Harlequins - Come the Apocalypse. Eldar are stated to have genestealer detecting technology of some sort or are able to psychically detect them.
Dark Eldar - Convenience. Sure, they might know about them, but they probably don't care. This is a race that hires weird xenos mercenaries all the time, including dangerous parasitic beings like the Medusae, and the dark eldar would have no problem helping out with a cult wanting to cause a civil war - that would turn a whole human planet into easy pickings.
Chaos - Desperation/maybe CTA. Genestealers are indistinguishable from regular humans that don't worship chaos to chaos. They would probably not want to ally except possibly to help destabilize a planet.
Necrons - CTA. Genestealers are probably marginally more dangerous humans to Necrons. What's the point of ridding the planet to a biological infestation of lesser beings to replace it with a different biological infestation of lesser beings?
Tau - CTA. The ethereals would probably be able to figure out which Tau were resisting mind control, and they'd definitely be wary of the obvious threat the genestealers represent.
Orks - Convenience. Ork broods are established in fluff, and as allies, why would the orks care?
Tau Broods are established in the fluff too, one of the Cain books I believe? Cain intentionally leaves a Genestealer infestion on a Tau ship after purging a human colony or some such, with the implication of the establishment of a cult? Some Tau Hybrids existed too unless I am off can anyone confirm?
the_scotsman wrote: Sorry, my speculation is based on realism, taking a look at the effort put into these kinds of mini-dexes when they aren't armies whose underwear goes clank for the emperor.
-I'm looking at the genestealer cult rules as the current "Death Masque" harlequin rules, but in reverse. The generic version of "The Purestrain princelings" is a basic unit of genestealers.
If anything, saying they may gain the PPs free USRs is possible. But GW changes basic stats exceedingly rarely, even when they make next to no sense and their pricing is based on game concepts that no longer exist (5th ed troop tax, for example). With genestealers this is compounded by the flatly superior hybrids, making players scratch their heads and wonder why genestealers bother to continue to evolve when they have 1st and 2nd gen hybrids that take so much less effort to create.
The generic version of "The Purestrain Princelings" is units of Genestealers that can be a minimum of 1 actually.
-GW has yet to do this with any unit. Buy a box of chaos cultists, they're the same snap fits from Dark Vengeance. KT Cassius box is the same as the DWO monopose. Genestealer Hybrids have no special weapons as yet, to add them they'd need to create a whole new sprue. Cultists they might do, but it would be completely unprecedented and the only reason to do it would be to add new weapon options. I also wouldn't be surprised to see new weapons added to Aberrants with a heavy box.
KT Cassius is the same as the DWO monopose, but the Deathwatch Kill Team box is not.
-We don't need transports, but remember: All the solutions and good things you mentioned only existed in the Ghosar Quintus Broodkin formation. We *might* get lucky and have GW realize they need those to function in a fluffy manner, and we might also see GW go "no, the reason GQB gets that is because in the fluff they're miners and they're popping out of the ground, so normally these units don't get infiltrate."
So you've seen the codex? What's in it?
-I have no problem with AoC tyranids. BB tyranids makes absolutely no sense and for the most part would just be a way to powergame. The big problem I have is that currently if you don't have tyranids the GQB formation is almost unplayable because of the phenomenally lazy decision to make Genestealer cults ally just like 'nids, ie Come the Apoc with EVERYBODY.
An actual ally matrix entry is required here, and that would require gw to rewrite rules that already exist. By the Principle of GW Rules Inertia, I'll be pleasantly surprised by this but expect the opposite.
GSC should be
Armies of the Imperium - Convenience. They're designed around infiltrating human societies. I'm sorry you lumped the hyper-paranoid super space nazis in with the regular humans, but with the loads of fluff involving blood brothers, GSC need to be convenience with Imperium.
Allies of Convenience represents not "infiltrating human societies" but taking control and creating your own society within that society, culling those who do not agree with you. It's during that stage when GSCs usually get exposed...so no. CTA is right.
Dark Eldar - Convenience. Sure, they might know about them, but they probably don't care. This is a race that hires weird xenos mercenaries all the time, including dangerous parasitic beings like the Medusae, and the dark eldar would have no problem helping out with a cult wanting to cause a civil war - that would turn a whole human planet into easy pickings.
Most likely wouldn't want to create something that's a literal beacon to summoning a force to devour an entire planet of humans that could belong to them.
MajorTom11 wrote: Regardless, this is a property they 100% wholly own, no major derivation from other sources. The name, the designs, the pedigree, all theirs, and that is exactly the kind of stuff they are focusing on for IP reasons.
Well, apart from being MASSIVELY influenced by Aliens... but yes, it's more original than derivative. And it's heavy on the nostalgia for long-time fans. That's why I bought two DW:OK boxes without thinking about it!!! Still cheaper than a handful of recasts... SORRY... 'undercoated RARE' originals on eBay. (seriously, there must be more out there than were ever made in Nottingham)
If the release is close enough to be in the next White Dwarf I'll be a happy little subscriber...
They are and they aren't... You can't quite draw a straight line between them on IP grounds. I mean clearly they ARE, the timing of their creation alone shows that. But as far as the actual creatures, their reproductive method, the general design and fluff, they are very different beasts other than using human hosts to reproduce. But even that is quite different really when you get into the details. I would maintain Genestealers are very inspired by Aliens in terms of a feel, words snatched from the mood board so to speak, but the specifics were very different and original, I don't think they would ever have an IP problem on that front. Zerg from Tyranids on the other hand....
Genestealer cults are far more heavily influenced by The Shadow Over Innsmouth I would think, what with the whole "creepy otherworldly beings taking over backwater societies and creating progressively nastier hybrid entities who are covered for by more human looking hybrids" schtick.
Genestealers themselves, yeah, Space Hulk was alien inspired, but a cult worshipping an otherworldly entity that wants to breed with humans as gods seems pretty cut and dry lovecraftian. I mean, look at that Magus. Where do you see something like that in Aliens?
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MajorTom11 wrote: Tau Broods are established in the fluff too, one of the Cain books I believe? Cain intentionally leaves a Genestealer infestion on a Tau ship after purging a human colony or some such, with the implication of the establishment of a cult? Some Tau Hybrids existed too unless I am off can anyone confirm?
Maybe. Most of the fluff for GSCs predated the tau, since 2nd ed their mentions have been few and far between.
MajorTom11 wrote: Absolutely, I think the Cain book was the ONLY mention of them inside of a decade lol -
If memory serves the Cult infiltrated the human population of a tau occupied world, they couldn't infiltrate the tau themselves as the kroot were good at sniffing/tasting them out. The tau were as repulsed by the stealers as much as the guard were.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, I have very very very very very low expectations for this release.
I'm guessing:
-no genestealer stat changes despite them being woefully underpowered because GW can only errata changes to space marine units.
-Basically no ally capabilities with anything, no change from FAQ. Despite being the 'sneaky infiltrators that inveigle themselves in human society' they will be CTA with everybody, Convenience with Tyranids, making them next to impossible to feasibly create a list.
-IF they get new sprues, then they will be something like cultists with a couple extra weapon options. I'm anticipating just a repackage of DWO in much more expensive individual kits despite this being the absolute 100% worst way to drive sales. GW will then use the astronomically low sales to justify another 6 months in a row of loyalist space marines.
-No transports, no capabilities to work like the GQBroodkin formation works because of infiltrate/stealth/shroud/turn 1 charge. Basic detachment probably grants infiltrate. Sure, we could give them access to chimeras and guard vehicles like every marine faction+inquisition+sisters get access to rhinos and other marine vehicles, but that would require too much thought and effort.
If this thread is now going to provide speculation rather than news, can we at least make it slightly more positive speculation?
- While I agree Genestealers likely won't get any stat changes, I do think that the recent formation special rules will become standard and easily obtainable for them. One key part of this being free Stealth; something long needed for 'stealers. On top of this I think we'll see more formations that relax restrictions around infiltrate / outflank / turn 1 assaults, plus more opportunities to gain Shrouded. Generally I believe 'stealers will become more effective via special rules rather than new stat lines.
- New sprues for many of these units are pretty much a given when you take GW's recent history into account. These days the 'sculpting' work on the kits is done in CAD software, with automated systems to produce injection molds at a far lower cost than before. This means the same design elements can be re-used in both snap-fit and standard multi-part kits with little extra work. Turning the Deathwatch GSC designs into AdMech/Harlequin-style individual kits seems the most likely scenario to me.
- Why do we need transports in an army themed around infiltration and sneak-assaults? Basically every army these days has obligatory flyers, transports and overpriced walkers. Personally I'll be way happier to see well-thought-out rules for assaulting from reserve than needing to spend £40 on some AV11 metal box armed with a heavy stubber. The assault grenades, telepathy and turn 1 charge rules in the Ghosar formation show that GW are at least aware of some Tyranid weaknesses, and I like to believe they will continue this approach while keeping a unique character for GSC armies.
- I'm starting to think that people who bemoan the lack of Battle Brothers are mostly annoyed that they can't abuse the horrifically broken scenario of cheap ML2 telepathy alongside huge Codex: Tyranids creatures. AoC with Tyranids is still a pretty good deal and will open up a lot of options once GSCs have a more flexible unit list to build from. If GSC lists continue to focus on the infiltration / early assault niche with multiple cheap units, it could even make some allied Tyranid ground-based lists more viable by giving them time to advance safely.
Sorry, you think Invisible Tyranid MCs would be "horrifically broken"? That's absurd. Most of these MCs aren't even close to being viable as is, and even if they were invisible, do you think they'd be able to compete with any other Imperium Deathstar? I wanted the ability to actually run something like a Haruspex without pulling my hair out because it got fragged before getting anywhere near assault range. Of course, GW couldn't let me (and other Tyranid people not looking to game the system) have that.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
the_scotsman wrote: Sorry, my speculation is based on realism, taking a look at the effort put into these kinds of mini-dexes when they aren't armies whose underwear goes clank for the emperor.
-I'm looking at the genestealer cult rules as the current "Death Masque" harlequin rules, but in reverse. The generic version of "The Purestrain princelings" is a basic unit of genestealers.
If anything, saying they may gain the PPs free USRs is possible. But GW changes basic stats exceedingly rarely, even when they make next to no sense and their pricing is based on game concepts that no longer exist (5th ed troop tax, for example). With genestealers this is compounded by the flatly superior hybrids, making players scratch their heads and wonder why genestealers bother to continue to evolve when they have 1st and 2nd gen hybrids that take so much less effort to create.
-GW has yet to do this with any unit. Buy a box of chaos cultists, they're the same snap fits from Dark Vengeance. KT Cassius box is the same as the DWO monopose. Genestealer Hybrids have no special weapons as yet, to add them they'd need to create a whole new sprue. Cultists they might do, but it would be completely unprecedented and the only reason to do it would be to add new weapon options. I also wouldn't be surprised to see new weapons added to Aberrants with a heavy box.
-We don't need transports, but remember: All the solutions and good things you mentioned only existed in the Ghosar Quintus Broodkin formation. We *might* get lucky and have GW realize they need those to function in a fluffy manner, and we might also see GW go "no, the reason GQB gets that is because in the fluff they're miners and they're popping out of the ground, so normally these units don't get infiltrate."
-I have no problem with AoC tyranids. BB tyranids makes absolutely no sense and for the most part would just be a way to powergame. The big problem I have is that currently if you don't have tyranids the GQB formation is almost unplayable because of the phenomenally lazy decision to make Genestealer cults ally just like 'nids, ie Come the Apoc with EVERYBODY.
An actual ally matrix entry is required here, and that would require gw to rewrite rules that already exist. By the Principle of GW Rules Inertia, I'll be pleasantly surprised by this but expect the opposite.
GSC should be
Armies of the Imperium - Convenience. They're designed around infiltrating human societies. I'm sorry you lumped the hyper-paranoid super space nazis in with the regular humans, but with the loads of fluff involving blood brothers, GSC need to be convenience with Imperium.
Eldar/Harlequins - Come the Apocalypse. Eldar are stated to have genestealer detecting technology of some sort or are able to psychically detect them.
Dark Eldar - Convenience. Sure, they might know about them, but they probably don't care. This is a race that hires weird xenos mercenaries all the time, including dangerous parasitic beings like the Medusae, and the dark eldar would have no problem helping out with a cult wanting to cause a civil war - that would turn a whole human planet into easy pickings.
Chaos - Desperation/maybe CTA. Genestealers are indistinguishable from regular humans that don't worship chaos to chaos. They would probably not want to ally except possibly to help destabilize a planet.
Necrons - CTA. Genestealers are probably marginally more dangerous humans to Necrons. What's the point of ridding the planet to a biological infestation of lesser beings to replace it with a different biological infestation of lesser beings?
Tau - CTA. The ethereals would probably be able to figure out which Tau were resisting mind control, and they'd definitely be wary of the obvious threat the genestealers represent.
Orks - Convenience. Ork broods are established in fluff, and as allies, why would the orks care?
I disagree with you about BB Tyranids (but that's another kettle of fish that many people have discussed), but otherwise, this is a really cool ally chart. The idea of GSC mercenaries working for Dark Eldar has me incredibly excited...
the_scotsman wrote: Mercenaries, pets, whatever. If you think the DE would pass up on capturing a creature that could
1) inflict horrific, entertaining pain on a human being
2) turn boring old common as dirt humans-or anything really- into varied and interesting arena combatants
3) Summon an incredibly distracting tyranid swarm to any world they want
4) Fight itself, very effectively
They'll keep it in the webway.
Most Dark Elda interest in Tyranids of any kind comes from the Haemonculus Covens with the intent to explore, understand and hopefully exploit their increadibly adaptive genetic make up, it's why Urien Rakarth had several Covens help him steal a whole planet that was in the middle of a Tyranid invasion (and scre over a bunch of Exodites/Saim-Hann for the fun of it).
Frankly youre reasoning for them being AoC, or even Desparate Allies, doesn't wash, they will attack, kill and/or enslave Cultists the same way they would the rest of the planets population without a care and the races that they do use as mercenaries are tend to be extra dimensional with longstanding ties to Commoragh already, or little more than slaves as is.
the_scotsman wrote: Mercenaries, pets, whatever. If you think the DE would pass up on capturing a creature that could
1) inflict horrific, entertaining pain on a human being
2) turn boring old common as dirt humans-or anything really- into varied and interesting arena combatants
3) Summon an incredibly distracting tyranid swarm to any world they want
4) Fight itself, very effectively
They'll keep it in the webway.
Most Dark Elda interest in Tyranids of any kind comes from the Haemonculus Covens with the intent to explore, understand and hopefully exploit their increadibly adaptive genetic make up, it's why Urien Rakarth had several Covens help him steal a whole planet that was in the middle of a Tyranid invasion (and scre over a bunch of Exodites/Saim-Hann for the fun of it).
Frankly youre reasoning for them being AoC, or even Desparate Allies, doesn't wash, they will attack, kill and/or enslave Cultists the same way they would the rest of the planets population without a care and the races that they do use as mercenaries are tend to be extra dimensional with longstanding ties to Commoragh already, or little more than slaves as is.
Obviously they'd be little more than slaves. Members of a Genestealer cult fielded as allies by Dark Eldar would be no different than the various Beasts or Court of the Archon members that exist as part of the DE army list. But that makes sense for the Allies of Convenience level.
Of course they're not going to go out and sign a mercenary contract with a Cult, but in a situation where fluff is plausible (the Dark Eldar using the cult as a convenient destabilizing tool, or as slave combatants) the ally matrix should be permissive.
Otherwise, why bother having ally levels besides Battle Brothers and Come the Apocalypse? For any other ally level, you require some kind of Narrative Forgery as to why these armies are operating together without killing each other.
Orks - Convenience. Ork broods are established in fluff, and as allies, why would the orks care?
Ork cults were miserable, barely able to exist temporary holdovers for the genestealers involved, even back in the day, they existed on the very edges of the freebootaz and renegades of orkish society, only the desperate among those elements tolerating them to use as cannon fodder. It was made clear, even back in the background of those times, that genestealers trying to establish on strong ork worlds of the established clans would be stomped flat in very short order, moreover that the enormous psychic wall of force generated by the orks acted in a very disruptive manner to stealers trying to establish a gestalt colony.
Orks don't like bugz, orks will stomp bugz as soon as possible because the bugz aren't a) green n propa or b) have anything worth tolerating them for to make it worthwhile like resources, weapons, slaves etc.
Yeah the ork cult fluff basically said the orks instantly knew it if there were stealers among them (out of the psychic loop I guess) and would kill them pretty much on sight. It was only the smallest groups that could be infected en mass, they never got very far into greater ork society.
That being said, that was before orks grew from spores so maybe they are incompatible now, who knows.
I love how I mentioned Aliens inspiration, then said GS Cult was largely original, yet still see several posts trying to prove me wrong in some way. Read what I wrote! I only politely and conversationally rebutted that GS Cult was 100% original IP. Stealers and reproducing via human hosts is Alien/Aliens-derived, blatantly. The rest is original or from numerous other SF tropes. Let's not score points that aren't there to score, peeps!
the_scotsman wrote: Mercenaries, pets, whatever. If you think the DE would pass up on capturing a creature that could
1) inflict horrific, entertaining pain on a human being
2) turn boring old common as dirt humans-or anything really- into varied and interesting arena combatants
3) Summon an incredibly distracting tyranid swarm to any world they want
4) Fight itself, very effectively
They'll keep it in the webway.
Most Dark Elda interest in Tyranids of any kind comes from the Haemonculus Covens with the intent to explore, understand and hopefully exploit their increadibly adaptive genetic make up, it's why Urien Rakarth had several Covens help him steal a whole planet that was in the middle of a Tyranid invasion (and scre over a bunch of Exodites/Saim-Hann for the fun of it).
Frankly youre reasoning for them being AoC, or even Desparate Allies, doesn't wash, they will attack, kill and/or enslave Cultists the same way they would the rest of the planets population without a care and the races that they do use as mercenaries are tend to be extra dimensional with longstanding ties to Commoragh already, or little more than slaves as is.
Obviously they'd be little more than slaves. Members of a Genestealer cult fielded as allies by Dark Eldar would be no different than the various Beasts or Court of the Archon members that exist as part of the DE army list. But that makes sense for the Allies of Convenience level.
Of course they're not going to go out and sign a mercenary contract with a Cult, but in a situation where fluff is plausible (the Dark Eldar using the cult as a convenient destabilizing tool, or as slave combatants) the ally matrix should be permissive.
Otherwise, why bother having ally levels besides Battle Brothers and Come the Apocalypse? For any other ally level, you require some kind of Narrative Forgery as to why these armies are operating together without killing each other.
If we're going to make fielding captured slaves for the Dark Eldar a thing then everyone should be AoC for them. There's is no fluff based reason that these two factions should ever work together, there goals are diametrically opposed with the one out to raid, pillage and destroy in lightning fast raids whilst the other is trying to build it's power base and either take over or at least undermine the control of a planet in readiness for the Hive Fleet. Then only reason a GSC would work for a Kabal is if it was tricked into it, which is quite likely, ut in no way could it ever be considered as actually working alongside each other.
it's also why GSC should be Battle Brothers with Tyranids, once a Hive Fleet gets into town the Hive Mind is going to completely take over and make use of them, only the Genestealers would have left system fleeing from the Hive Mind, they have no use for the Cult by then, and even that isn't guranteed.
Hmmm... a Genestealer-Haemonculus hybrid sounds interesting. With a retinue of hybrid-wracks, aberrants as Grotesques and Taloi/Cronoi and a steady supply of new hosts from people with the wish to have children. You can hide purestrains in your laboratory and nobody will be wary of your additional limbs and ugly face. You could even convince the hipsters from the spire that having a bulbous head and an extra arm with an alien claw is the newest trend, so your brothers can freely roam Commorragh without suspicion. It's a dream job!
Really, I'd be fine with it.
