Whether Unbound, Battleforged, ITC-hammer, etc?

Currently, my favorite "Worst Army" for 1850 points unbound is:

1 Imperial Guard Servitor with Servo Arm...copypasted for 185 units.

Why is this bad?

The model is toughness 3 with a 4+ save, has ONE unwieldy close combat attack, and at the start of the player's turn, you have to roll a D6 to see if it can do ANYTHING that turn. So that's 185 rolls at the start of your turn for individual models to see if you can use them, or if they just stare slack-jawed at the opponent while they take objectives and kick your ass, meaning for most intents and purposes, you're playing with a 50% point handicap.

What is your "Worst Army" you can think of?

Spam only flyers (any kind). You will lose turn one for not having any units on the table.

Better IG list: one Valkyrie, nothing else. Automatically lose the game at the end of turn 1.

Actually, that's a pretty strong army since it has so many individual units. It may be one of the most frustrating to play with or against, though!

I was in a friendly tournament where everyone made the worst 1000-pt battle-forged army they could think of. No allies allowed. Here was mine:

Tau CAD
2 Ethereals - 100
9 Crisis Suits - velocity trackers, drone controllers, and shield generators - 675
3 Crisis Suits - velocity trackers, drone controllers, and shield generators - 225

You've got a solid 336 points straight wasted, and you have to remember that this was constructed in the context of facing other awful armies, so shield generators are essentially wasted points on models with a 3+. That is, nobody was going to bring any AP3 or better unless they absolutely had to. The Ethereals are just there to feed your opponent some victory points and otherwise do nothing.

An entire Legion of the Damned army. Can't start on the board so you lose turn 1.

For on the table bad there is dark eldar Ur-ghuls. 15p each in units of 12. They have T3, no save, no shooting, no special move (FnP and fleet thou) and a wooping LD3. They will run of the table before even getting close to assault.

An army of Repentia. No ranged capabilities of any sort, they die easier than Imperial Guardsmen since they never stay in cover and a 6+ invulnerable save is utterly pathetic, and they're expensive enough in terms of points you will not be fielding a horde capable of surviving the losses.

Nothing but Pyrovores.

The awfulness burns.

Inisitorial warband:

61 inquisitors in an 1850 point game. No upgrades. Just stock.

Old one eye as a hq choice. Fill every othrr slot with non synapse. Watch instinctive behaviour play the game for you.

FSE Tau
Commander
-4x Shield Generator

Fill troops with all Crisis Suits with 3x shield generator

GG.

Entire army of Conscripts. Basicly a Red Army in Stalingrad.

Oh and an ugly commissar, for flufiness...

Ws2 Bs2 S3 T3 I3 A1 Ld6 Sv5+, Lasgun, Frag grenade, Flak armour.
They hit nothing, wound only thanks to sheer numbers and panic easily.

 Hawky wrote:
Entire army of Conscripts. Basicly a Red Army in Stalingrad.

Oh and an ugly commissar, for flufiness...

Too bad Commander Chenkov's not a thing anymore.

This isn't exactly relevant, but I remember back in 5th edition you could make a single unit of Blood Angels that cost something like 2500 points, and everyone in it still just had Power Armor levels of defense.

Dude, that Servitor list wins.

But anyway how about 1850 points of Eldar Guardians and nothing else to try and bring down a powerful Codex?

That servitor list can just be made in bound ; )

Take space wulfs and unlock the unlimited servitor madness with an oldstyle wulfy tech priest in that you need only an Hq + 2 Elites detachment.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I love converting servitors so I might just build it one day just for the fun of it. My guess is that it can actually be quite good as long as you figure out a fast way to do the mindlocks.

NIDS
Death leaper
6×9 deep striking ripper swarms (810)
3×9 sky slasher swarms (486)
3×3 pyrovores (360)
1 biovore
1826pts
all subject to instinctive behaviour nothing tougher than t4.
might be fun to try but no just no.

DE - plain Archon, everything else is a stock Wych unit. Footslog the lot and let the tears flow.

Technically, if I write an army list, but leave it blank, is that not the worst army possible as it has a total of zero capability of winning the game as it contains no models of any sort?

Or is that the smartass answer that disqualifies me from entering the "worst army" competition?

All Grots? No armor, slow, weak and terribad LD.
Although I'd put them up against that conscript list for fun

Zounds of the Ethereal Council formation.

Min 3 ethereals (including aun'va/shi), max 7
They're Fearless (quite a bonus to make the game longer)
They're all part of one, indivisible unit
They don't have any ranged weapon
They don't have any dedicated transport
They invoke all auras at once, within 24" (the only one helpful is FnP 6+)

Each little group is like puckling berries from a tree: 3 to 7 VPs for each! You don't even need to care about cards!

Codex: SPESS MEHRENS:

FA - Drop Pod
FA - Drop Pod
FA - Drop Pod
FA - Drop Pod
FA - Drop Pod
FA - Drop Pod
.... and suchforth. Auto-lose, and even if you houserule that away you still have an army of immobile Storm Bolter platforms.

I think the Servitor or Ur-ghul armies are "worse" though; they can move, but are easier to kill.

 BBAP wrote:
Codex: SPESS MEHRENS:

FA - Drop Pod
FA - Drop Pod
FA - Drop Pod
FA - Drop Pod
FA - Drop Pod
FA - Drop Pod
.... and suchforth. Auto-lose, and even if you houserule that away you still have an army of immobile Storm Bolter platforms.

Half would come in turn one, and can lock your opponent down while they try and bust through to any objectives you have under more drop pods.

 Drk_Oblitr8r wrote:

 BBAP wrote:
Codex: SPESS MEHRENS:

FA - Drop Pod
FA - Drop Pod
FA - Drop Pod
FA - Drop Pod
FA - Drop Pod
FA - Drop Pod
.... and suchforth. Auto-lose, and even if you houserule that away you still have an army of immobile Storm Bolter platforms.

Half would come in turn one, and can lock your opponent down while they try and bust through to any objectives you have under more drop pods.

"OUR DROP PODS WILL BLOT OUT THE SUN!"

"And then the Space Marines emerge and wipe out the survivors who were not crushed in the barrage?"

"N-no. It's just the drop pods. They're all empty."

"Is this that famed Space Marine cunning battle strategizing bewildering me as to some hidden aspect of the plan?"

 Pouncey wrote:

 Drk_Oblitr8r wrote:

 BBAP wrote:
Codex: SPESS MEHRENS:

FA - Drop Pod
FA - Drop Pod
FA - Drop Pod
FA - Drop Pod
FA - Drop Pod
FA - Drop Pod
.... and suchforth. Auto-lose, and even if you houserule that away you still have an army of immobile Storm Bolter platforms.

Half would come in turn one, and can lock your opponent down while they try and bust through to any objectives you have under more drop pods.

"OUR DROP PODS WILL BLOT OUT THE SUN!"

"And then the Space Marines emerge and wipe out the survivors who were not crushed in the barrage?"

"N-no. It's just the drop pods. They're all empty."

"Is this that famed Space Marine cunning battle strategizing bewildering me as to some hidden aspect of the plan?"

Land them in a cunning maze lay out that rings every objective and win only using dozens of drop pods

Someone should try that drop-pod list and let us know how it goes. You'd have what, 52 drop pods? Or a few less if you took some missiles on them.

 Lance845 wrote:
Old one eye as a hq choice. Fill every othrr slot with non synapse. Watch instinctive behaviour play the game for you.

You'd be surprised, man. I did this once. I had OOE, Deathleaper, Lictors, mucolids for troops, a Crone, an Exocrine, 2 Mawlocs, a Dakkafex in a pod, and one or two spore mine clusters. I lost, but not to IB. I was going against an equally stupid Renegades and Heretics list of nothing but cultists and I just couldn't kill them all, plus some bad rolls in combat. I only failed like 1 IB check, though. No synapse Nids certainly isn't going to win you any tournaments, but it isn't a terrible idea.

Trying to do this without joke/shenanigans builds I've got pure-Khorne Daemons Codex only (no Daemonkin/supplements), CSM un-Marked mechanized/armoured (no Forge World), and foot Dark Eldar as good candidates for the 'worst possible army'. Foot Battle Sisters, pure GK without Dreadknights, and Gaunt-heavy Tyranids are in my runner-up bin.

As many fully upgraded 15 man Wych squads as you can possibly fit.
Just try and lose to that!

StevetheDestroyeOfWorlds wrote:
As many fully upgraded 15 man Wych squads as you can possibly fit.
Just try and lose to that!

...


I'm thinking...

...

...

...Hormagaunts?

...

...(They outnumber you 2-1 (or a bit more, depending on how 'fully-upgraded' we're talking), but you've got a 4++, Power from Pain/Combat Drugs, and a Shooting phase)

For bad synapseless tyranids, I'd probably go with hormagaunts over rippers.
They do more damage to themselves via instinctive behaviour (on average, just under half the unit will die each time they roll Cannibalistic Hunger), plus they aren't natively fearless, so might even fall back after killing themselves.

Plus their upgrades are expensive. 10 points per gaunt is horrendous.


Big units of 12 point termagants just walking backwards off the table on turn 1 is pretty funny too.

I'll definately go for 1850 pts of synapseless Hormagaunts - as said, just sit back and watch how they eat themselves and leftovers fall back.

Fluff-wise, Eldar army of nine Avatars of Khaine will die to any single imperial hero...

One Eldar "troll concept" - go first, field an entire army of Swooping Hawks led by Baharroth, wait for your opponent to field his 185 servitors, and then Skyleap them all away in the first movement phase.

 troa wrote:
Someone should try that drop-pod list and let us know how it goes. You'd have what, 52 drop pods? Or a few less if you took some missiles on them.

Only a madman owns over 50 drop pods. I could see it actually winning games with the new faq. Those things are huge chunks of impassable terrain you can cage your opponent in with. Every one that wrecks instead of exploding is going to be maddening.

 Ratius wrote:
All Grots? No armor, slow, weak and terribad LD.
Although I'd put them up against that conscript list for fun

This... is the game that i was fated to play

Destiny

I don't know how bad it is because I don't play yet, but I would imagine an army of nothing but plague zombies would be bad

 TheLumberJack wrote:
I don't know how bad it is because I don't play yet, but I would imagine an army of nothing but plague zombies would be bad

You could make a semi-functional joke list with them using the IA5 horde detachment (the only place you're allowed more than one unit). 3+ cover/4+ FNP on a Fearless 3pt model is actually fairly scary, even if they're slow and have very limited hitting power.

I made a mistake with my suggestion. All bloodbrides with max upgrades and unit size instead of normal Wyches
Gotta get that extra cost on garbage

Realistically that you might see? Any fething special snowflake list that takes one of everything for supposed balance.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Realistically that you might see? Any fething special snowflake list that takes one of everything for supposed balance.

...This is an odd stance to be taking? Some armies a 'one of everything' list isn't actually legal since you can't make a CAD with one Troops choice, some armies a 'one of everything' list is more competitive than entire Codexes. Do you have a specific example in mind?

Well, there's my entire Kroot Merc army that doesn't have modern rules, and even if they did, my carnivores suddenly turned from close combat monsters into shooters?

 Pouncey wrote:

 Drk_Oblitr8r wrote:

 BBAP wrote:
Codex: SPESS MEHRENS:

FA - Drop Pod
FA - Drop Pod
FA - Drop Pod
FA - Drop Pod
FA - Drop Pod
FA - Drop Pod
.... and suchforth. Auto-lose, and even if you houserule that away you still have an army of immobile Storm Bolter platforms.

Half would come in turn one, and can lock your opponent down while they try and bust through to any objectives you have under more drop pods.

"OUR DROP PODS WILL BLOT OUT THE SUN!"

"And then the Space Marines emerge and wipe out the survivors who were not crushed in the barrage?"

"N-no. It's just the drop pods. They're all empty."

"Is this that famed Space Marine cunning battle strategizing bewildering me as to some hidden aspect of the plan?"

The worst would be to charge with the shooters and to shoot with the cc units/models.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Realistically that you might see? Any fething special snowflake list that takes one of everything for supposed balance.

...This is an odd stance to be taking? Some armies a 'one of everything' list isn't actually legal since you can't make a CAD with one Troops choice, some armies a 'one of everything' list is more competitive than entire Codexes. Do you have a specific example in mind?

Some armies have multiple troop choices, but otherwise they'd maybe go for something like, in a SoB army, 3 squads of 10 sisters all with different special weapons, including the Storm Bolter. After that, instead of redundancy and threat saturation, you get one of each unit. So in the Heavy Support slot they'd pick 1 Exorcist, 1 Devastator equivalent (I forget the name) and one Engine.

OK so using the following limitations army must include one non-vehicle unit.
Army cannot be an auto-lose army. In other words can't just use things that must start in reserve.

Adepta Sororitas (116 points)
Ministorum Priest (2x Shotgun, Melta Bomb, Warlord, Cloak of St Aspira)
2x Ministorum Priest (2x Shotgun, Melta Bomb)
Fortifications (1730 points)
Wall of Martyr Imperial Defense Network each consisting of:
- 3x Bunkers (Comms Relay, Escape Hatch, Magos Machine Spirit, 6x Tank Traps)
- 3x Imperial Defense Emplacements (6x Tank Traps)
- 4x imperial Defense Line (6x Tank Traps)

3 grizzled old men dual wielding shotguns sitting in front of a massive defense system.

That could be a mildly fun scenario. You could do a 2000-2500 point game with around 5 Chapter Masters and the second player buys nothing but Typhus and zombies.

 Happyjew wrote:
3 grizzled old men dual wielding shotguns sitting in front of a massive defense system.

Alternatively, three nutty religious survivalist Zealots sitting behind a massive defence system ready to fight off the gub'mint when they come to take their guns away.

I like it.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Realistically that you might see? Any fething special snowflake list that takes one of everything for supposed balance.

...This is an odd stance to be taking? Some armies a 'one of everything' list isn't actually legal since you can't make a CAD with one Troops choice, some armies a 'one of everything' list is more competitive than entire Codexes. Do you have a specific example in mind?

Some armies have multiple troop choices, but otherwise they'd maybe go for something like, in a SoB army, 3 squads of 10 sisters all with different special weapons, including the Storm Bolter. After that, instead of redundancy and threat saturation, you get one of each unit. So in the Heavy Support slot they'd pick 1 Exorcist, 1 Devastator equivalent (I forget the name) and one Engine.

Yeah, but I could take a fluffy special-snowflake Biel-Tan Great Court (one of each Aspect, an extra DA unit and a Phoenix Lord to be a legal detachment, and the Avatar) and end up with a fairly playable list that'd fail at being the worst army here by stomping other proposed lists. Some armies may be terrible at Highlander (the technical name for a no-duplicates format) but some armies can make workable lists out of it.

Worst army?:

Squats.

It had to be said.

Had an apoc game year back I didn't really want to be a part of but couldn't get out of. I took an inquisitor and hid him up the back and the rest of my force was nothing but orbital barrages and lances- back in the days of the witch hunter dex. Think there was about 14 of those things.

Use csm in a csm army.

 salix_fatuus wrote:
Spam only flyers (any kind). You will lose turn one for not having any units on the table.

See also Deathwing...

 Happyjew wrote:
OK so using the following limitations army must include one non-vehicle unit.
Army cannot be an auto-lose army. In other words can't just use things that must start in reserve.

Adepta Sororitas (116 points)
Ministorum Priest (2x Shotgun, Melta Bomb, Warlord, Cloak of St Aspira)
2x Ministorum Priest (2x Shotgun, Melta Bomb)
Fortifications (1730 points)
Wall of Martyr Imperial Defense Network each consisting of:
- 3x Bunkers (Comms Relay, Escape Hatch, Magos Machine Spirit, 6x Tank Traps)
- 3x Imperial Defense Emplacements (6x Tank Traps)
- 4x imperial Defense Line (6x Tank Traps)

3 grizzled old men dual wielding shotguns sitting in front of a massive defense system.

This is truly awesome

For 30k (if we're allowing unbound), spam tactical support squads with plasma guns. Stupidly expensive and you'll probably kill half of your army on turn 1. And against the conscript spam list you couldn't put out enough wounds to kill them all after 50% decrease.

Pushing the 'stupidly overpriced' angle I can make Deathwatch Veterans 82pts each with no guns. How's a legal 1,500pt army consisting of sixteen footslogging Marines and one footslogging Captain with two thunderhammers each and no guns between them sound?

(I tried Ultras Fulmentarii, but they're not actually allowed the autocannon and the Cyclone launcher at the same time and they were just too good.)

If you take the farsight enclave you can get crisis suits as troops. An upgraded crisis suit with velocity tracker, shield generator and drone controller cost 83 points each. That is no guns and a ws2 I2. he does have S5 T4 A2 and sv3+ but very few minimum sized units will fail to kill him. You can have two ethereals as your HQ which actually award the opponent VPs for if they die.

Remember in the worst army any unit that has numbers is a potential killing machine. A huge unit of marker drones still has the ability to kill things in CC off their multiple ws2 s3 attacks.

Nothing but bare bones guardsmen platoons.
With a CCS of course.


It would be a ton of dudes, but with nothing but lasguns.. besides infantry it couldn't hurt a fly.

An army of just chaos furies, daemonic instability on every combat, your army will implode by turn 3

 Happyjew wrote:
OK so using the following limitations army must include one non-vehicle unit.
Army cannot be an auto-lose army. In other words can't just use things that must start in reserve.

Adepta Sororitas (116 points)
Ministorum Priest (2x Shotgun, Melta Bomb, Warlord, Cloak of St Aspira)
2x Ministorum Priest (2x Shotgun, Melta Bomb)
Fortifications (1730 points)
Wall of Martyr Imperial Defense Network each consisting of:
- 3x Bunkers (Comms Relay, Escape Hatch, Magos Machine Spirit, 6x Tank Traps)
- 3x Imperial Defense Emplacements (6x Tank Traps)
- 4x imperial Defense Line (6x Tank Traps)

3 grizzled old men dual wielding shotguns sitting in front of a massive defense system.

Can you even fit all that on a table?!

6 Chosen of Tzeentch, icon of flame, lascannon, 5x paired lightning claws, veterans - 315 pts
Take 5 such squads and a Daemon prince on foot with black legion relic which reduces toughness by 1.

I've been having a lot of fun looking for expensive and limited units, even though it's not as easy as it used to be in the grand old days of Codex-wide armouries for every option. A rotor-cannon Veletarii-spam list could be funny, you may get Salvo 3/4 weapons on everybody but every single thing in your army other than krak grenades is S3. A Land Speeder is immune to your army.

Imperial Agents. And GW went a made it a codex...

An army of Pyrovores.

EDIT: No, an army of unmarked Furies. These things have no guns and are liable to instantly go poof if they lose combat. Bonus Points if you decide to Deepstrike them.

You know, I ran the math. Well-played, an army of all Furies will beat the 185 Servitor army.

 JNAProductions wrote:
You know, I ran the math. Well-played, an army of all Furies will beat the 185 Servitor army.

...you don't say.

Say how many furies is that? I might actually be able to field it.

48 Squads of 5, 4 of 6.

If my midnight math is right, 264? I think I may be a few dozen short.

I thought I settled this in a previous thread for an 1850 pt list of super bad (non auto lose) list

1 Ordo xeno Inquisitor
digital weapons
tome of vethric

Tidewall Defense network
29 tidewall shieldline

1850 on the dot

 sfshilo wrote:
Use csm in a csm army.

Indeed. Take Thousand Sons. Very nice new models but heavily overcosted.

just wanted to point out, that if you took any of these lists, and played it genuinely as best you could, against the other worst lists on here, it's not easy to see who'd lose.

Lobbas in a close quarters space hulk, crewed by Gretchin.

Trazer985 wrote:
just wanted to point out, that if you took any of these lists, and played it genuinely as best you could, against the other worst lists on here, it's not easy to see who'd lose.

There's a semi-comic tournament format where you build the worst army you can and swap lists with your opponent before each game. Absent lists dependent on the scenario or on making the whole army out of fortifications I suspect Wych-spam, Hormagaunt-spam, Deathwatch 16-models-for-1500pts, and the Fury list would make up the winners' bracket.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Trazer985 wrote:
just wanted to point out, that if you took any of these lists, and played it genuinely as best you could, against the other worst lists on here, it's not easy to see who'd lose.

There's a semi-comic tournament format where you build the worst army you can and swap lists with your opponent before each game. Absent lists dependent on the scenario or on making the whole army out of fortifications I suspect Wych-spam, Hormagaunt-spam, Deathwatch 16-models-for-1500pts, and the Fury list would make up the winners' bracket.

My plasma spam list would lose against horde spam. Would probably win by a long shot against the deathwatch but 10 guys with plasma guns in around 325 points. You couldwin against 17 deathwatch guys at 2000 points

You guys do realize that the points limit is a maximum, right?

Just because you agree to an 1850pt game doesn't mean if your entire army for that match consists of one 25pt Inquisitor with no upgrades, your list breaks the rules.

Only Canoptek Scarabs. No Harvest. No Spyders. Just 10 units of 9 Scarabs.

FireSkullz2 wrote:
Only Canoptek Scarabs. No Harvest. No Spyders. Just 10 units of 9 Scarabs.

12" Move? Check.

3 Wounds apiece? Check.

The ability to wound/glance literally anything in the game? Check.

This doesn't seem that bad-ESPECIALLY compared to some of the lists on here. (That being said, it's not very good either.)

Umm.

I just said that a 25 point Inquisitor consists of a complete, legal, Battleforged army for any theoretical points limit from 25 to infinity.

This is a thread asking what the worst army you can build for 40k is.

Where's my ribbon.

 Pouncey wrote:
Umm.

I just said that a 25 point Inquisitor consists of a complete, legal, Battleforged army for any theoretical points limit from 25 to infinity.

This is a thread asking what the worst army you can build for 40k is.

Where's my ribbon.

The spirit is for it to be an 1850 point list. Yes, you technically can have less than that, but that's kinda cheating.

And it doesn't have to be battleforged, so I'll one-up you:

One Mucolid Spore. 15 Points. No shooting attacks. No close combat attacks. T3, 3 wounds, Ld 3. The only way it does damage is by blowing itself up.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:
Umm.

I just said that a 25 point Inquisitor consists of a complete, legal, Battleforged army for any theoretical points limit from 25 to infinity.

This is a thread asking what the worst army you can build for 40k is.

Where's my ribbon.

The spirit is for it to be an 1850 point list. Yes, you technically can have less than that, but that's kinda cheating.

And it doesn't have to be battleforged, so I'll one-up you:

One Mucolid Spore. 15 Points. No shooting attacks. No close combat attacks. T3, 3 wounds, Ld 3. The only way it does damage is by blowing itself up.

If you're designing an army to be the worst, why is your argument that my entry is invalid is because it's too low-powered to count?

Also, yup, that's the lowest-powered army possible. Thread over, you get the ribbon.

Not too low-powered. Too low points.

It's easy to make crappy lists without going to high points levels. See the Mucolid Spore. Or, hell, a squad of 3 acolytes (12 points, 5+ armour save, human statlines).

The trick is building a list that actually fills the points and is still terrible.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Not too low-powered. Too low points.

It's easy to make crappy lists without going to high points levels. See the Mucolid Spore. Or, hell, a squad of 3 acolytes (12 points, 5+ armour save, human statlines).

The trick is building a list that actually fills the points and is still terrible.

Points = Power

That's the principle behind the idea that points are a thing that balances the game by making two radically different armies equivalent in power.

In a perfect game, yes. In the mess that is 40k... Which would you rather have? 2,000 points of Warp Spiders, or 2,000 points of Veterans with stock gear?

 JNAProductions wrote:
In a perfect game, yes. In the mess that is 40k... Which would you rather have? 2,000 points of Warp Spiders, or 2,000 points of Veterans with stock gear?

So why are we caring about points values at all as a playerbase if we are willing to say that "Points = Power" is not applicable to 40k?

Why are you insisting that your army and your opponents' armies must be similar in points values to have a fair game?

You basically just said the idea of points shouldn't be a thing in 40k at all since they are so fundamentally useless for balance they fail to meet the basic principle of why they are a thing at all.

Points are a good thing.

They just aren't working right for 40k at the moment. They're good approximations-especially with more diverse armies. 2,000 points of guard might not usually be as good as 2,000 points of Eldar, but it'll be a good game-it might be lopsided in the Eldar's favor, but unless the IG is bad and the Eldar player is great, it won't be a total curbstomp.

Obviously spamming just one unit is going to cause issues.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Points are a good thing.

They just aren't working right for 40k at the moment. They're good approximations-especially with more diverse armies. 2,000 points of guard might not usually be as good as 2,000 points of Eldar, but it'll be a good game-it might be lopsided in the Eldar's favor, but unless the IG is bad and the Eldar player is great, it won't be a total curbstomp.

Obviously spamming just one unit is going to cause issues.

The idea that your two armies having similar points values means it's going to be a good game is entirely because those similar values tell you those two armies are similar in terms of power.

You can't tell me you believe in points values as a balancing factor when you're willing to tell me you believe that "low points" and "low power" are such fundamentally different things it's worth arguing the difference!

Okay, I do agree lower points is lower power. But I also think the spirit of this challenge was to build an 1850 (or close to it) point list as weak as you can. Not to cheese the system by building a 25 or less point list.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Okay, I do agree lower points is lower power. But I also think the spirit of this challenge was to build an 1850 (or close to it) point list as weak as you can. Not to cheese the system by building a 25 or less point list.

I didn't cheese the system.

I was fully within the rules.

You are not, nor have ever been, required to maximize the number of points you're allowed. You have always been allowed to be lower than the maximum points value, and there has never been a minimum points value on your army.

The fact you want to max out the points value is because it is something we always do. And the only reason we always do it is because it means our list is as powerful as it can be.

So you're saying that you're technically following the rules-and you don't see why I think that's against the spirit of the challenge?

I totally agree-by the strict laws of the challenge laid before us, you are fine. But by the INTENTIONS I don't think you are.

I'm going to preempt the rest of this argument by grabbing the 'worst abuse of the rules' trophy with a zero-point list of zero detachments and zero models. Pouncey's single Inquisitor beats it every time.

Since the definition of 'army' is under dispute I'm going to suggest legal, battle-forged, and within 10pts of a target points total for future discussion for the sake of keeping it interesting.

 JNAProductions wrote:
So you're saying that you're technically following the rules-and you don't see why I think that's against the spirit of the challenge?

I totally agree-by the strict laws of the challenge laid before us, you are fine. But by the INTENTIONS I don't think you are.

No, I'm saying that you're telling me, "Sorry, your army's not powerful enough to be a competitor in this thread where we make the least powerful armies we can."


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
I'm going to preempt the rest of this argument by grabbing the 'worst abuse of the rules' trophy with a zero-point list of zero detachments and zero models. Pouncey's single Inquisitor beats it every time.

Since the definition of 'army' is under dispute I'm going to suggest legal, battle-forged, and within 10pts of a target points total for future discussion for the sake of keeping it interesting.

Beat you to it on page 1.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/707978.page#9013971

I'm looking at this wrong. I clearly did win this contest. I won it so badly, that the competiition could not continue if I were a contestant, so I was prevented from entering. Which means I won against every opponent that is theoretically possible.

Has Pouncey being an a** about the unparameterized contest soured the rest of us on the parameterized contest?

I was gonna say 616 Conscripts, but that's actually not a bad list. 212 hits per turn, against SM, that's 70 and 2/3rds wounds per turn, which translates to around 23 dead Marines a turn.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Has Pouncey being an a** about the unparameterized contest soured the rest of us on the parameterized contest?

Dropping it entirely, I actually have a question.

Why are you trying to make the least powerful 1850 point lists you can come up with? Just for fun, or are you actually trying to come up with useful ideas?

The OP is actually someone else.

And I think it's just for fun. A neat thought experiment.

I can't tell you why the OP asked the question, but I'm answering it because I think it's going funny places.

Speaking of funny places to go the most expensive Inquisitorial Acolytes I can make are 39pts each (117pts for a 3-man squad of Guardsmen statlines with power fists and power armour), add in a 68-pt dual-power-fist Inquisitor per three squads for detachment legality and you've got about thirty Acolytes and four Inquisitors at 1,500pts. Everyone's footslogging T3 in power armour and loaded with thunderhammers, the only ranged weapons are laspistols off the Acolytes.

Well I think the OP wins this.

But how about an entire army of Kroot?

 Vector Strike wrote:
Zounds of the Ethereal Council formation.

Min 3 ethereals (including aun'va/shi), max 7
They're Fearless (quite a bonus to make the game longer)
They're all part of one, indivisible unit
They don't have any ranged weapon
They don't have any dedicated transport
They invoke all auras at once, within 24" (the only one helpful is FnP 6+)

Each little group is like puckling berries from a tree: 3 to 7 VPs for each! You don't even need to care about cards!

If it were me, I'd run this. You can fit 37 ethereals into 1850. That's 37 additional VPs up for grabs on a t3, no save unit that has no ranged attack, and at best, a 6+ fnp

 AnomanderRake wrote:
I can't tell you why the OP asked the question, but I'm answering it because I think it's going funny places.

I asked it because it's a funny question, and there's something cathartic in trying to write "the worst thing" for 40k.

On a historical note, I remember the old 4th edition Chaos Codex winning the "worst army" contest hands-down, no matter the points level.

One barebones Chaos Lord.
Two barebones Chaos Marine Squads. DO NOT TAKE ICONS FOR THEM!
Spend ALL the rest of your points on Lesser Daemons. They don't take up any slots, so you can do this to infinity!

The Lesser Daemons HAVE to start in Reserve. When they pass Reserves, they must DS near an Icon. If there are no Icons to DS nearby, they're automatically destroyed.
The beautiful thing about how much this army fails is that you can scale this to infinity, and legally field only 11 barebones foot Marines, no matter whether it's 1500 points, 1850 points, 9000 points...

This is an easy one to answer. The correct answer is: Whatever army that I bring to the table.

 SickSix wrote:
Well I think the OP wins this.

But how about an entire army of Kroot?

It would have bad armor, but it would have a lot of models that can shoot and infiltrate

 JNAProductions wrote:
I was gonna say 616 Conscripts, but that's actually not a bad list. 212 hits per turn, against SM, that's 70 and 2/3rds wounds per turn, which translates to around 23 dead Marines a turn.

I don't think marines could put out enough wounds to kill them. Even if every attack hits they're still vastly
outnumbered.

 JNAProductions wrote:
I was gonna say 616 Conscripts, but that's actually not a bad list. 212 hits per turn, against SM, that's 70 and 2/3rds wounds per turn, which translates to around 23 dead Marines a turn.

You'll never get all 600+ conscripts within range to actually do this. As soon as you come within 24" of the marines you're going to be removing models by the fistfull. Unless you're playing on planet bowling ball you'll be hitting terrain constantly. Footprint matters.

 MarsNZ wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
I was gonna say 616 Conscripts, but that's actually not a bad list. 212 hits per turn, against SM, that's 70 and 2/3rds wounds per turn, which translates to around 23 dead Marines a turn.

You'll never get all 600+ conscripts within range to actually do this. As soon as you come within 24" of the marines you're going to be removing models by the fistfull. Unless you're playing on planet bowling ball you'll be hitting terrain constantly. Footprint matters.

Yeah, true, but you just have SO DAMN MANY of them!

For comparison, 1850 points of Spess Mehreens Tactical Squads (132 dudes) will, assuming they're all in Rapid Fire range every single turn, manage to remove...

264 shots, 176 hits, 117 and 1/3 wounds...

It'll take them 5.25 turns to kill them all, assuming no cover, and by some miracle they manage to get into Rapid Fire range turn one.

Colonel Schaeffer's Last Chancers against 1850 of anything

The priests in fortresses scanerio would be interesting I suppose. Those priests would have mad firepower but the guy with the heavy bolter could do work if he doesn't get alpha struck on T1

 Happyjew wrote:
OK so using the following limitations army must include one non-vehicle unit.
Army cannot be an auto-lose army. In other words can't just use things that must start in reserve.

Adepta Sororitas (116 points)
Ministorum Priest (2x Shotgun, Melta Bomb, Warlord, Cloak of St Aspira)
2x Ministorum Priest (2x Shotgun, Melta Bomb)
Fortifications (1730 points)
Wall of Martyr Imperial Defense Network each consisting of:
- 3x Bunkers (Comms Relay, Escape Hatch, Magos Machine Spirit, 6x Tank Traps)
- 3x Imperial Defense Emplacements (6x Tank Traps)
- 4x imperial Defense Line (6x Tank Traps)

3 grizzled old men dual wielding shotguns sitting in front of a massive defense system.

Sounds like Father Grigori from Half-Life 2. Do you have any way to get a tech-priest with a gravity gun in there?

"We dont go to Ravenholm"

 Engine of War wrote:
Nothing but bare bones guardsmen platoons.
With a CCS of course.


It would be a ton of dudes, but with nothing but lasguns.. besides infantry it couldn't hurt a fly.

WE DON'T NEED TO HURT THEM! THEY CANT KILL US ALL! (literally do not have enough shots per turn to kill all of those guardsmen)

This is the exact idea behind a killteam list of mine: 25 guardsmen with auto cannons, krak and all the works. Some lists do not have enough shots to actually kill everything by the end of the game. XD

In the current meta, isn't a full 1850pt army with a Canoness, maxed-out Battle Sisters, and all extra points filled by by Dominions, Seraphim, and Retributors, none of whom are armed with any other equipment than their basic loadout (i.e. bolters and bolt pistols), one of the worst armies Sisters of Battle can field?

Can't hurt anything with AV11 or higher without using Krak Grenades. Can't hurt anything Toughness 8, and anything Toughness 6 or higher requires a 6 to wound outside of Krak Grenades in melee. Flyers are basically invulnerable.

In the current meta involving tons of MCs and vehicles and very little infantry that this army's bolters are, at best, kinda okay at, wouldn't this be the worst army Sisters of- :: reads the following ::

"Nothing but bare bones guardsmen platoons.
With a CCS of course.


It would be a ton of dudes, but with nothing but lasguns.. besides infantry it couldn't hurt a fly."

Oh, someone already thought of that with a different army. Well, there goes my idea for a Sisters of Battle army worse than all-Repentia.

Practically every army can field a terribad army if you just take non-equipped HQ and spam basic infantry (or weapon-less weapon teams)

You can get it even worse with FSE
Crisis suit spam, without guns. at all.

Sure, you got S5 melee, but at WS2 I2 you are not exactly going to reap people apart.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Practically every army can field a terribad army if you just take non-equipped HQ and spam basic infantry (or weapon-less weapon teams)

You can get it even worse with FSE
Crisis suit spam, without guns. at all.

Sure, you got S5 melee, but at WS2 I2 you are not exactly going to reap people apart.

That's a good point.

Hmm... Well, avoiding that obvious route, I think I could make a pretty bad Sisters of Battle army if I maxed out my Heavy Support choices with Retributors with Multi-Meltas. That's a lot of wasted points on useless Multi-Meltas that are terrible anti-tank weapons on infantry and it also prevents me from taking Exorcists. Also if I maxed out the Retributors to 10 models instead of 5 and gave the Superior the most expensive power weapons I could, that'd waste even more points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So a single Retributor Squad with the following adds up to 205pts:

-10 models
-4 Multi-Meltas
-Veteran Superior with Melta Bombs and two Power Mauls

Three such squads would waste 615pts. Almost exactly 1/3 of your total points value.

That's certainly not good, but I wouldn't call it horrible. That's 12 24" S8 AP1 Melta shots, each with 6 Ablative Wounds.

 JNAProductions wrote:
That's certainly not good, but I wouldn't call it horrible. That's 12 24" S8 AP1 Melta shots, each with 6 Ablative Wounds.

Meltas are kinda useless after half range. Also they can't move and shoot, so they'd have to stay still before firing, and any vehicle can just drive out of range. And beyond half range, an Exorcist missile has the same statline as a multimelta, minus the melta, which doesn't matter beyond half range. An Exorcist gets d6 shots, can move before firing, has a 48" range, and AV 13/11/10. Also the Exorcist only costs like 135 points.

Like I said, not good. But again, not that bad either. It's a good 24" bubble of "Nope" for most things, since it punches through any armour (even TEQs) and can threaten any vehicle even at 24"-though admittedly Land Raiders aren't THAT threatened by it at 24".

And since you have three squads, you can pretty easily cover your entire DZ.

Edit: And, while you might have half the range, you have .5 more shots on average, and more importantly, ALWAYS have a consistent amount of shots. I'm sure you've rolled ones on Exorcist Missiles before when you really needed that six.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Like I said, not good. But again, not that bad either. It's a good 24" bubble of "Nope" for most things, since it punches through any armour (even TEQs) and can threaten any vehicle even at 24"-though admittedly Land Raiders aren't THAT threatened by it at 24".

And since you have three squads, you can pretty easily cover your entire DZ.

Edit: And, while you might have half the range, you have .5 more shots on average, and more importantly, ALWAYS have a consistent amount of shots. I'm sure you've rolled ones on Exorcist Missiles before when you really needed that six.

Just to be clear here about something.

You, are arguing with a Sisters of Battle player, about the effectiveness of multi-meltas as anti-tank weapons.

Not Anti-Tank. Anti-most things. They double out SM characters that aren't on bikes, wound anything short of a GUO or Wraithknight on 2s, ignore all armour...

Again, I wholeheartedly agree that they are not worth the points. But in a contest for building the WORST POSSIBLE LIST, they're not very good contenders.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Not Anti-Tank. Anti-most things. They double out SM characters that aren't on bikes, wound anything short of a GUO or Wraithknight on 2s, ignore all armour...

Again, I wholeheartedly agree that they are not worth the points. But in a contest for building the WORST POSSIBLE LIST, they're not very good contenders.

Let me put it this way.

A competently-built Sisters of Battle list has 0 multi-meltas on infantry.

Our Battle Sisters Squads can take a Multi-Melta as one of the two special weapons. We take two Meltaguns instead, even though a Multi-melta is the same points cost as a meltagun.

Meltaguns are more effective than multi-meltas.

A Sisters of Battle player who takes Retributors puts heavy bolters or heavy flamers on them.

Probably, this right here:

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/Battle-Sister-with-Multi-Melta

Is a model that should never have been designed, because it is USELESS.