The title says it all. What are some rules that either have so little impact as to be useless, or that just never get used, that you expect (or hope) to see dropped in 8th edition. This isn't for bad rules, or rules that you think are broken, just ones that don't ever end up coming up in a regular game of 40k.

For a few that I've thought of: Rules for moving through water and Mysterious Objectives both get used about as often as Flash Gitz at my LGS.

Soul Blaze.

Soulblaze, so under-powered that I have not met anyone that even bothers to use it. if it was buffed it might be somewhat worthwhile, but at its current state it is quite possibly the most useless I know of.

I once had a model lose a wound to Soul Blaze.

Once.

It's not so much soul blaze that is an issue, but that you pay for it. And it's pretty much never ever worth it, so nobody takes the stuff that has it. At the very least it would have to stack.

I'd say precision strikes/shots is the most useless rule in the game. I can't even think of unit that has the rule....assasins?

Fear. A lot of armies are flat out immune to it. After that the rest of the armies are either such high Ld or Morale manipulation that they almost always pass their fear tests (Eldar, Necrons) or were so bad in CC that them failing their fear check doesn't do anything (Tau and IG). The only army that Fear actually affects is the Orkz

And Tyranids. As much as it is ideal to always have full synapse coverage, the reality is that it is difficult to maintain.

 Roknar wrote:
I'd say precision strikes/shots is the most useless rule in the game. I can't even think of unit that has the rule....assasins?

Actually it's on weapons with the Sniper special rule too. Imperial Assassins, however, make Precision Shots/Strikes work well, considering they get it every single shot/attack and they give a middle finger to LOS.

Crusader, fear, cover.

zealot is literally two other rules in one.

 Roknar wrote:
It's not so much soul blaze that is an issue, but that you pay for it. And it's pretty much never ever worth it, so nobody takes the stuff that has it. At the very least it would have to stack.

I'd say precision strikes/shots is the most useless rule in the game. I can't even think of unit that has the rule....assasins?

Actually, the named Canoness for Sisters, Veridyan, has a 12" bubble of Precision Shots for all Sororitas units...I love sniping stuff with my Exorcists.

Oberron wrote:
zealot is literally two other rules in one.

One of those rules doesn't roll over to the entire unit though.

Fearless rolls over... And Hatred rolls over...

So come again?

Hatred does not carry over. Check the wording in the BRB.

Many tyranid monstrous creatures coming with an AP6 close combat weapon is kinda amusing. Particularly on those that are unable to replace it, or take a second one.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Oberron wrote:
zealot is literally two other rules in one.

One of those rules doesn't roll over to the entire unit though.

Either way, you don't need a third rule to give a model two existing rules. There are plenty of USR's guilty of this.

 phantombap wrote:
Soulblaze, so under-powered that I have not met anyone that even bothers to use it. if it was buffed it might be somewhat worthwhile, but at its current state it is quite possibly the most useless I know of.

The other issue with Soul Blaze is the book keeping - marking units affected, and then remembering to do something about that each turn.

The other USRs I don't think are worth it are Preferred Enemy and Hatred. Similar enough they could be one rule, but the reasons I dislike them is their specificity - here's a special rule giving you re-rolls (because the game needs more re-rolls!) but you can only use it if you happen to be facing Army X. Against anything else it's a rule you can't use (but you still pay points for in the unit's base points cost).

They are quite fluffy rules, but that way madness lies! Making fluffy rules leads to movie marines.

Preferred Enemy (Everything) or, as it's more commonly known, Preferred Enemy is pretty dang useful.

Same with hatred (Everything).

Daemonic Possession on FW chaos superheavy tanks.
You have to pay points for it.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Preferred Enemy (Everything) or, as it's more commonly known, Preferred Enemy is pretty dang useful.

Preferred enemy (Everything) sounds stupid, though.


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Strikedown. Slows someone down in mellee. And only if this model suffered a wound and didn't die. And usually only GMC or other big units have it.

I'd have to go for 'soul blaze' and 'Fear' or any 'Fear' based gear (such as what dark eldar have) tends to be worthless.

Oh hey you have phantasm grenades or the supposed fear bomb. I have space marines (ATSKNF), high leadership models all around (even with riptides and stormsurge), fearless or just plain don't care.

The sad bit is the fear bomb would be ok vs lots of small units or against monsters except monsters are too high leadership and the good ones have invulnerable saves and FnP anyway. This isn't even taking into the fact those are probably all fearless as well (except riptides).

I'd still say soul blaze is pretty useless though. It just doesn't do enough.

 koooaei wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
Preferred Enemy (Everything) or, as it's more commonly known, Preferred Enemy is pretty dang useful.

Preferred enemy (Everything) sounds stupid, though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Strikedown. Slows someone down in mellee. And only if this model suffered a wound and didn't die. And usually only GMC or other big units have it.

Speaking of which, Concussive - It's almost exclusively on weapons that are going to kill most targets in one hit anyways. I usually forget that it even exists when I'm facing high initiative, durable enemies anyways.

As for the Hatred/PE thing... I don't mind either of those rules, but it does seem like there is a huge proliferation of ways to get re-rolls to hit, and it could probably use some streamlining. (Also, it's dumb that some forms of re-rolling doesn't help Template weapons, but other forms do.)

Heavy Chainsword.

That piece of wargear existed in the basic rulebook since the beginning of 6th edition in 2012, but I have yet to see any codex including it.

STRIKEDOWN
Half the time its useless, as its Close Combat.
And the other half you forget about it entirely

Sagittarii Orientalis wrote:
Heavy Chainsword.

That piece of wargear existed in the basic rulebook since the beginning of 6th edition in 2012, but I have yet to see any codex including it.

The Heresy has them.

Repel Boarders (or something to that effect). Go on, I'll wait while you check the rulebook to ensure I'm not making it up.

It's assault vehicle for buildings and I can't think of anything that uses it, or why Assault Vehicle couldn't have applied to buildings. Other culprits include Missile Lock for rarely used rules.

I agree things like Hatred and Preferred Enemy could be used interchangeably. Rage and Furious Charge represent very similar things too. They may be mechanically different but when you have two rules trying to represent the same thing you can probably get rid of one.

Whatever combo of rules (don't play right now, think its fleshbane and poison 2+) the Eversor has on his CCWs. So you have a 1/36 chance of failing to wound? Why not make it auto wound instead of having the needless potential you might need to re-roll some dice now and again.

Also some SM rules (IIRC) that are just other USRs put together.

Slipspace wrote:
Repel Boarders (or something to that effect). Go on, I'll wait while you check the rulebook to ensure I'm not making it up.

It's assault vehicle for buildings and I can't think of anything that uses it, or why Assault Vehicle couldn't have applied to buildings. Other culprits include Missile Lock for rarely used rules.

I agree things like Hatred and Preferred Enemy could be used interchangeably. Rage and Furious Charge represent very similar things too. They may be mechanically different but when you have two rules trying to represent the same thing you can probably get rid of one.

That's just a rule for all buildings iirc. Means you can disembark and charge. Yep, it's kinda like an assault vehicle but for buildings. Just to avoid the oddity of calling buildings vehicles i guess.

Supersonic, Strafing Run, Strikedown, Soul Blaze, Zealot, Repel the Enemy, Sentry Defence System, Precision Strike, Missile Lock, Mighty Bulwark, Hatred, Crusader.

These special rules are never part of my games. Maybe soul blaze but it does nothing anyway.

Strikedown. Very few things have it and even less players remember using it at all. Even Soul Blaze gets more use/reminder.

 Blackie wrote:
Strafing Run, Zealot, Repel the Enemy, Hatred, Crusader.

Thse rules show up quite a lot in my games. All useful!

Wandering past USRs the "seven powers per discipline" thing has produced a lot of incredibly useless psychic powers. Malefic 1 and 2, Banishment, Scryer's Gaze, Mental Fortitude, and Enhance/Drain are the ones I most frequently see people forgetting they have.

Strafing run is probably used more than you might expect, and I bet Zealot is used a lot just because SM Chaplains have it. Hatred and Preferred Enemy come up a lot too, though when it's against a specific army you can feel bad for using it. Like if I include Pedro Kantor in my SM army, EVERYTHING gets PE and Hatred (Orks). Orks however get nothing in return. I'm pretty sure a few more armies have similar rules as well (Farsight, Death Korps etc.), and rerolling 1s for basically everything is quite useful, and will result in that player having an easier time.

Weapons that are both two-handed and specialist weapons...

Roughly two-thirds of the powers I roll never get used.

Any rule you forget most of the time is useless in my view. Soul blaze, it will not die, pinning etc.

ramming other vehicles rules. I have literally never seen a person use a ram since the end of 5th edition orks when deffrollas were nerfed into oblivion

This one time, in 6th edition, I rammed a rhino with a land raider.

Nothing interesting happened.

Strangely, I use soul blaze all the time. My current army fields 4 squads of purifiers plus Crowe. The last time, I ended up using soul blaze to real effect. Someone dropped 9 drop pods worth of space wolves around my 4 rhinos. They popped the units out of the rhino but failed to actually kill any full unit.

Come my psychic phase I did 5 novas catching nearly everyone. Every unit at the end of the turn had soul blaze. It did kill a couple extra guys.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Oberron wrote:
zealot is literally two other rules in one.

One of those rules doesn't roll over to the entire unit though.

Doesn't Zealot itself confer to the entire unit?

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Oberron wrote:
zealot is literally two other rules in one.

One of those rules doesn't roll over to the entire unit though.

Doesn't Zealot itself confer to the entire unit?

Hatred might not go to the unit but Zealot does. There's also a formation in Traitors Hate that gives the Dark Apostle a 12" bubble iirc.

My Destroyers, and thus my Wraiths, LOVE preferred enemy.

Useless rule? Stubborn. I can't think of anything that has it off hand. I know during one game my opponent had it and never remembered it or really had to make use of it.

Rule I wish was back: True Grit

 G00fySmiley wrote:
ramming other vehicles rules. I have literally never seen a person use a ram since the end of 5th edition orks when deffrollas were nerfed into oblivion

I ram all the time.
Once my Rhinos have off loaded their passengers I find they're best used as guided missiles.
Vindicators even more so if they're lost their main gun.

My group find Objective secured to be useless for us.
It almost never comes up and has never determined the outcome of any of our games.

Even the dice gods don't seem to want us to use it.
(I had an obsec Rhino steal an objective by tank-shocking a non-obsec unit so they ran away, so obsec was pointless)

BomBomHotdog wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Oberron wrote:
zealot is literally two other rules in one.

One of those rules doesn't roll over to the entire unit though.

Doesn't Zealot itself confer to the entire unit?

Hatred might not go to the unit but Zealot does. There's also a formation in Traitors Hate that gives the Dark Apostle a 12" bubble iirc.

But Zealot is Hatred and Fearless rolled into one special rule that confers to the whole unit meaning everyone has Hatred and Fearless.

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

But Zealot is Hatred and Fearless rolled into one special rule that confers to the whole unit meaning everyone has Hatred and Fearless.

I'm going to have to point out that it gives the effects of fearless not the actual rule. Which makes Space Marine Chaplains one of the few Space Marine models that can be affected by Dark Eldar soul-fright weapons. (The others being Servitors and the Thunderfire cannon)

 kirotheavenger wrote:

 G00fySmiley wrote:
ramming other vehicles rules. I have literally never seen a person use a ram since the end of 5th edition orks when deffrollas were nerfed into oblivion

I ram all the time.
Once my Rhinos have off loaded their passengers I find they're best used as guided missiles.
Vindicators even more so if they're lost their main gun.

ramming other vehicles or tank shocking units? I find tank shocking units quite effective, it is the I ram your rhino with my battlewagon... nothing happens

Tank shocking is amazing! Once a unit starts fleeing you can keep poking it with tank shocks and force it way back, perhaps even off the board!

Jbz` wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

But Zealot is Hatred and Fearless rolled into one special rule that confers to the whole unit meaning everyone has Hatred and Fearless.

I'm going to have to point out that it gives the effects of fearless not the actual rule. Which makes Space Marine Chaplains one of the few Space Marine models that can be affected by Dark Eldar soul-fright weapons. (The others being Servitors and the Thunderfire cannon)

Zealot's effect is to give the Fearless USR, not just the effects of it

 G00fySmiley wrote:

 kirotheavenger wrote:

 G00fySmiley wrote:
ramming other vehicles rules. I have literally never seen a person use a ram since the end of 5th edition orks when deffrollas were nerfed into oblivion

I ram all the time.
Once my Rhinos have off loaded their passengers I find they're best used as guided missiles.
Vindicators even more so if they're lost their main gun.

ramming other vehicles or tank shocking units? I find tank shocking units quite effective, it is the I ram your rhino with my battlewagon... nothing happens

Both.
Obviously I don't ram battlewagons (frontally).
But a Rhino for example hits at S7. A Vindicator hits as hard as a missile launcher.
My Vindicator once lost it's cannon first turn to a Lasback, so it spend the remainder of the game beating it to death with his face (ironically destroying it's lascannon first turn right back).

I've had less luck with tank shocks, partly because I often fight high leadership armies which just move out the way zero gaks given.

Fear may be useless, but I would argue against getting rid of it, as the OP suggests; instead, the majority of things that ignore it should be done away with, or toned down, to make it more relevant.

I've used Mysterious Objectives quite a lot, actually.

I'd get rid of most of the special effects that scenery has (apart from the generic " is it Difficult or Dangerous Ground, and what's its Cover Save?". The two times I've played a siege game, we all forgot that the trench lines have one special rule and the heavy weapon pits another.

If we're just going to list rules we don't personally encounter much, then anything from the Tau, Necron or Ork codexes.

 CrownAxe wrote:

Zealot's effect is to give the Fearless USR, not just the effects of it

It was in 6th ed, in 7th rulebook it specifically tells about re-rolls, auto-passing tests, gtg and 'our weapons are useless' without a mention of Fearless or Hatred.

Mates even soul blaze doesn't have anything on this rule.

Sweeping fire special rule for custodes jetbikes.

Rule says may fire each of their weapons once. They only have one ranged weapon they can shoot....

The rule has literally 0 use.

Fear has won me games, but I mostly play against Necrons, Tau and DEldar.

The search light I find absolutely useless, though it's not a USR.
Agreed on ramming, but I tank shock quite often, after your rhino has delivered its load it's sometimes the most useful thing to do..
And soul blaze... much dice rolling for sth. that basically can kill only an ork boy.

Jbz` wrote:
My group find Objective secured to be useless for us.
It almost never comes up and has never determined the outcome of any of our games.

Even the dice gods don't seem to want us to use it.
(I had an obsec Rhino steal an objective by tank-shocking a non-obsec unit so they ran away, so obsec was pointless)

I have lost more than one game due to not having Objective Secured, or due to my opponent having it. It only really matters in Maelstrom games, though - Usually there aren't enough units on the board to matter during an Eternal War mission.

(For one example, my opponent run a KDK list with a bunch of hounds - They scouted forward and were on top of my objectives before I had a turn. They couldn't hurt me, but it denied me like three VPs from the cards I got.)

Waaaghpower wrote:

Jbz` wrote:
My group find Objective secured to be useless for us.
It almost never comes up and has never determined the outcome of any of our games.

Even the dice gods don't seem to want us to use it.
(I had an obsec Rhino steal an objective by tank-shocking a non-obsec unit so they ran away, so obsec was pointless)

I have lost more than one game due to not having Objective Secured, or due to my opponent having it. It only really matters in Maelstrom games, though - Usually there aren't enough units on the board to matter during an Eternal War mission.

(For one example, my opponent run a KDK list with a bunch of hounds - They scouted forward and were on top of my objectives before I had a turn. They couldn't hurt me, but it denied me like three VPs from the cards I got.)

Objec secured can and has mattered for me a few times. It ususally is only important on blobs or assault units, or against non Obsec drop pods or transports that AFK on their objectives. I'm glad the rule exists but IMO it's so fringe in its usefulness I'd prefer if troops got it universally.

Arson Fire wrote:
Many tyranid monstrous creatures coming with an AP6 close combat weapon is kinda amusing. Particularly on those that are unable to replace it, or take a second one.

Adding to this, the Bloodcrusher's 6+ armor save.

6+ ARMOR SAVE. The thing has the freaking Daemonic Rule. Why the hell does this exist? And it doesn't even matter for Grav anyways since I think the default is 6 anyhow.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

Arson Fire wrote:
Many tyranid monstrous creatures coming with an AP6 close combat weapon is kinda amusing. Particularly on those that are unable to replace it, or take a second one.

Adding to this, the Bloodcrusher's 6+ armor save.

6+ ARMOR SAVE. The thing has the freaking Daemonic Rule. Why the hell does this exist? And it doesn't even matter for Grav anyways since I think the default is 6 anyhow.

Probably as a place holder or something. Every unit I think has a save. It's probably there in case you find some rule that modifies saves in some way. If it had no save it'd be impossible or need some FAQ if it got something like a +1 to armor save reroll if armor saves.

Also it sorta kinda helps against dangerous terrain I guess.

How does it help against terrain?

 JNAProductions wrote:
How does it help against terrain?

1/6th the time you dont lose a wound

Though this helps more in gaunts than deamons, that of for certain.

But... They have a 5+ invuln. They can just take that.

 Jaxler wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

Arson Fire wrote:
Many tyranid monstrous creatures coming with an AP6 close combat weapon is kinda amusing. Particularly on those that are unable to replace it, or take a second one.

Adding to this, the Bloodcrusher's 6+ armor save.

6+ ARMOR SAVE. The thing has the freaking Daemonic Rule. Why the hell does this exist? And it doesn't even matter for Grav anyways since I think the default is 6 anyhow.

Probably as a place holder or something. Every unit I think has a save. It's probably there in case you find some rule that modifies saves in some way. If it had no save it'd be impossible or need some FAQ if it got something like a +1 to armor save reroll if armor saves.

Also it sorta kinda helps against dangerous terrain I guess.

A lot of other types of daemon don't have saves, the bloodcrusher is the only one that has a save worse than it's invul save, which is very weird because as far as I know, at no point does it even come up.

Stikkbomb Chukkas upgrade for Ork vehicles.

Confers stikkbombs to a unit that charges the turn it disembarks.
Ain't no infantry in the codex that don't have stikkbombs...

 Jambles wrote:
Stikkbomb Chukkas upgrade for Ork vehicles.

Confers stikkbombs to a unit that charges the turn it disembarks.
Ain't no infantry in the codex that don't have stikkbombs...

Except Meganobz (that have power klaws and thus have no use for them)
And Wierdboys

Jbz` wrote:

 Jambles wrote:
Stikkbomb Chukkas upgrade for Ork vehicles.

Confers stikkbombs to a unit that charges the turn it disembarks.
Ain't no infantry in the codex that don't have stikkbombs...

Except Meganobz (that have power klaws and thus have no use for them)
And Wierdboys

Don't forget grots, in case you want to waste the points sticking them in a trukk.

Speaking of which, red paint job. It gives us +1'' movement when flatting out. Not really worth the 5 points.

That bonus move is a old through back to 2nd edition. Where painting your vehicles red allowed them to 1" faster. No charge.

It was also the only rule that actually required you to paint your models a certain way. Although as TVTropes put it, if you managed to convince your opponent that your non-red vehicle really was red, it'd be a feat worthy of an Ork.

Jbz` wrote:

 Jambles wrote:
Stikkbomb Chukkas upgrade for Ork vehicles.

Confers stikkbombs to a unit that charges the turn it disembarks.
Ain't no infantry in the codex that don't have stikkbombs...

Except Meganobz (that have power klaws and thus have no use for them)
And Wierdboys

Check again! Meganobz have stikkbomz too, believe it or not! It's crazy.

Vitali Advenil wrote:

Don't forget grots, in case you want to waste the points sticking them in a trukk.

Okay fair enough, I missed one - to be fair though, the RUNTHERD does still have stikkbomz

Painboyz also don't have stikkbombz.

So I guess the only use for that is on the off chance you want to give your painboy or weirdboy their own personal limo.

 Vitali Advenil wrote:

Don't forget grots, in case you want to waste the points sticking them in a trukk.

I've once won a tourney with grots charging a ravenwing deathstar out of a trukk. Well, technically they just ate overwatch but this overwatch would have killed 3 meganobz and grots wouldn't be able to reach dark angels without a trukk.

Wrecker and Amphibious.

Strafing Run is one of the rules that make Vultures so good.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

Arson Fire wrote:
Many tyranid monstrous creatures coming with an AP6 close combat weapon is kinda amusing. Particularly on those that are unable to replace it, or take a second one.

Adding to this, the Bloodcrusher's 6+ armor save.

6+ ARMOR SAVE. The thing has the freaking Daemonic Rule. Why the hell does this exist? And it doesn't even matter for Grav anyways since I think the default is 6 anyhow.

The 40k daemons had their stats copied from the WHFB 8ed Daemon book. Their bloodcrushers had 6+ armor so the 40k ones get 6+ armor

 Jaxler wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

Arson Fire wrote:
Many tyranid monstrous creatures coming with an AP6 close combat weapon is kinda amusing. Particularly on those that are unable to replace it, or take a second one.

Adding to this, the Bloodcrusher's 6+ armor save.

6+ ARMOR SAVE. The thing has the freaking Daemonic Rule. Why the hell does this exist? And it doesn't even matter for Grav anyways since I think the default is 6 anyhow.

Probably as a place holder or something. Every unit I think has a save. It's probably there in case you find some rule that modifies saves in some way. If it had no save it'd be impossible or need some FAQ if it got something like a +1 to armor save reroll if armor saves.

Also it sorta kinda helps against dangerous terrain I guess.

There are models without saves. Chaos Spawn for example don't have an actual armor save ( sv -) instead relying on toughness and wounds to protect them. I think there's something somewhere in the rules where if a model with no save has it's save buffed, such as +1 to armor save, it goes from armor save - to 6+ giving it an actual armor save (and +2 would make a sv - become 5+). I'm not really sure why daemons have armor saves worse than the invul granted by daemon.

It's kinda funny how Chaos Spawn are huge and yet for the purpose of Grav weapons are feather light.

Edit: Forgot to list my useless rules: Soul Blaze and Fear. Soul Blaze just doesn't seem to be worth keeping track of unless its to know something is immune to it and there's just too much stuff that makes fear useless.

A specific pointless example from 6th was Relentless on Maugan Ra since he has an assault weapon. I never could understand that one.

Although it's not pointless I do have a problem with Slow and Purposeful. It seems like a watered down version of Relentless. Personally I think from the description you would be better at overwatch (bs 2 or some such) rather than not being able to use it at all. The other parts like no running and such fit. It almost seems like it should be called "Slow and Aloof". With increased overwatch skill it would be a nice alternative to Relentless.

SaP has its pros and cons compared to Relentless.

I'm gonna say Fear, Acute Senses, Vector Dancer and Strafing Run. These rules are practically useless and superfluous to boot.

I would also like to suggest the "Assault Weapon" type.

Now assault weapons as a rule isn't useless, in fact it's very useful. The issue I have is that the "Assault Weapon" type is basically the default type of weapons, with the others basically being restrictions on top of the "basic" assault weapon. Whenever I play introductory games with people, this often gets some confusion as they think that because it's a listed special rule, it should have more rules than the basic "has no penalties when shooting and you can still assault".

 Roknar wrote:
It's not so much soul blaze that is an issue, but that you pay for it. And it's pretty much never ever worth it, so nobody takes the stuff that has it. At the very least it would have to stack.

I'd say precision strikes/shots is the most useless rule in the game. I can't even think of unit that has the rule....assasins?

Uhhhh no, that rule is absolute gold on my Death jesters. use it to snipe out special weapons from squads all the time.

If we're talking the most useless as in basically never gets used, I'm going to have to rank it:

1) Concussive. This rule almost never happens because the most common weapons that have it are hugely strong and/or, hilariously, Unwieldy. And most models only have 1 wound to take anyway... The number of times I've seen Concussive ever apply I can count on the fingers of one hand, and I'm a highly unsuccessful pirate so they're both hooks.

2) Fear. Only when playing vs Eldar, Orks, or Dark Eldar, and even then it rarely comes up.

3) Soul Blaze. So much bookkeeping, so little effect...

4) Crusader. Does something - just not anything terribly impactful.

5) Precision Strikes. This one is only, ONLY this low on the list because one time my solitaire charged a conscript blob, managed to insert himself such that he was base to base with the commissar, even though he refused the challenge I precision striked him, he rolled 1 on his look out sir, and the solitaire killed him and swept the other 47 members of the blob. So this one, I've only ever seen happen once. But god was it a glorious one time...

Leadership & Morale. 40k would be a better game without it at all.

The Heldrake Terror Packs 'Merciless Pursuit' is pretty much never getting used. You get d6 vector strikes over units falling back, pinned, or gone to ground, which are usually effects that happened after, or are removed before the Movement Phase.

Accute Senses.
When using Outflank accute senses allows you to re-roll the dice determining what board edge the unit enters the board from.

Not sure about other Armies but all Space Wolves have Accute Senses, so it actually sounds pretty cool, until you consider how useless/random Outflank is for the Wolves. Due to the "No assault out of Reserves" rule melee units pop out of the board edge then stop and stare at the enemy. Outflank works best for armies, units and models that have low mobility and high RoF. Easiest way of getting it for Space Wolves is Harold Deathwolf, a mobile melee monster.
Getting Outflank on Obj Sec Grey Hunters means a one in six chance or keeping Harold connected to them in Reserves.

the_scotsman wrote:

 Roknar wrote:
It's not so much soul blaze that is an issue, but that you pay for it. And it's pretty much never ever worth it, so nobody takes the stuff that has it. At the very least it would have to stack.

I'd say precision strikes/shots is the most useless rule in the game. I can't even think of unit that has the rule....assasins?

Uhhhh no, that rule is absolute gold on my Death jesters. use it to snipe out special weapons from squads all the time.

If we're talking the most useless as in basically never gets used, I'm going to have to rank it:

1) Concussive. This rule almost never happens because the most common weapons that have it are hugely strong and/or, hilariously, Unwieldy. And most models only have 1 wound to take anyway... The number of times I've seen Concussive ever apply I can count on the fingers of one hand, and I'm a highly unsuccessful pirate so they're both hooks.

2) Fear. Only when playing vs Eldar, Orks, or Dark Eldar, and even then it rarely comes up.

3) Soul Blaze. So much bookkeeping, so little effect...

4) Crusader. Does something - just not anything terribly impactful.

5) Precision Strikes. This one is only, ONLY this low on the list because one time my solitaire charged a conscript blob, managed to insert himself such that he was base to base with the commissar, even though he refused the challenge I precision striked him, he rolled 1 on his look out sir, and the solitaire killed him and swept the other 47 members of the blob. So this one, I've only ever seen happen once. But god was it a glorious one time...

Point 5 made me laugh

Cybork Armor. If you really want a FNP roll why not take a Dok? Why would they remove the only invulnerability besides a mek shield!?

I've got a big issue with mob rule. I always end up making several dice rolls and end up falling back anyway.

the_scotsman wrote:

 Roknar wrote:
It's not so much soul blaze that is an issue, but that you pay for it. And it's pretty much never ever worth it, so nobody takes the stuff that has it. At the very least it would have to stack.

I'd say precision strikes/shots is the most useless rule in the game. I can't even think of unit that has the rule....assasins?

Uhhhh no, that rule is absolute gold on my Death jesters. use it to snipe out special weapons from squads all the time.

If we're talking the most useless as in basically never gets used, I'm going to have to rank it:

1) Concussive. This rule almost never happens because the most common weapons that have it are hugely strong and/or, hilariously, Unwieldy. And most models only have 1 wound to take anyway... The number of times I've seen Concussive ever apply I can count on the fingers of one hand, and I'm a highly unsuccessful pirate so they're both hooks.

2) Fear. Only when playing vs Eldar, Orks, or Dark Eldar, and even then it rarely comes up.

3) Soul Blaze. So much bookkeeping, so little effect...

4) Crusader. Does something - just not anything terribly impactful.

5) Precision Strikes. This one is only, ONLY this low on the list because one time my solitaire charged a conscript blob, managed to insert himself such that he was base to base with the commissar, even though he refused the challenge I precision striked him, he rolled 1 on his look out sir, and the solitaire killed him and swept the other 47 members of the blob. So this one, I've only ever seen happen once. But god was it a glorious one time...

I'd imagine precision strikes actually can be useful but similar to the way precision shots is. Haemonculus covens can get it in a formation i think and i think it could be ok but you'd need plenty of decent attacks to make it worth anything. I think it might be ok in theory if you fight a mixed unit with different gear. I mean let's say you're fighting dudes with storm shields and some that don't have it. You get to pick who gets hit sometimes which could be helpful. I'm not sure if it is useful considering the weapons that have it but it has potential if given to the right weapons or units unlike many rules that just suck because of the rule themselves.

I actually find your point on concussive to be funnier with the pirate hooks.

I actually had fear matter vs my dark eldar. I failed a Ld 10 check vs a stormsurge with my archon group. I cried a little on the inside and complained heavily on the outside. Lesson learned? If you get fearless as a warlord trait for your archon spam. TAKE IT! Also take raiders with the grisly trophies for leadership re-rolls just in case. They probably won't live but once their passengers are outside people tend not to focus on killing them anymore. Funny thing is my archon posse still murdered that stormsurge in the game to everyone's surprise. 4x archon bro force with huskblades and shadow fields ftw! On the subject i'd just like to make a point of how unlucky my blaster and blast pistol shots with my archon were when i only used one (haven't used it on archon posse yet). I've failed to wound like 90% of the time i swear whether from missed shots or far more likely rolling a one to wound. Keep in mind it's normally a 2 to wound (str 8 ap 2 lance) and like BS 7 and i've missed hits at least once or twice. Seriously sometimes luck just likes to screw with you.

Can't even remember what crusader does. That probably is a big hint how much it comes up.

Soul blaze does next to nothing and i only get it if i have mandrakes which are an ok-ish to bad unit (at least theoretically) in an army that needs its good units most of the time. Shame mandrakes can't be taken as troops or have a couple points dropped. Their FOC has them compete with incubi, grotesques and trueborn and you'd never take mandrakes given those other choices. Going unbound they might actually be ok but dark eldar get nothing from being bound anyway.

I think dark eldar only have a couple concussive units and it tends to not matter as we're usually striking first (except for the fact we don't have combat grenades on most of our melee units thanks to idiots in the rules department). I know reavers can take an upgrade for it but it is massively inferior to cluster caltrops and i've never seen someone prefer one anywhere.

Agreed on precision shots though. You gotta realize you don't tend to kill characters with precision shots but rather special weapons or an imperial guard's vox caster model (the hq voxes) or banner bearer ;P.

It's subjective, but Sniper in Kill Teams.
They even listed it as a 'skill' to give to models.
It lets you pick which model to target, in a unit of one model.

 Skinnereal wrote:
It's subjective, but Sniper in Kill Teams.
They even listed it as a 'skill' to give to models.
It lets you pick which model to target, in a unit of one model.

Doesn't it also give rending?

 koooaei wrote:

 Skinnereal wrote:
It's subjective, but Sniper in Kill Teams.
They even listed it as a 'skill' to give to models.
It lets you pick which model to target, in a unit of one model.

Doesn't it also give rending?

Probably. Good point.
As I was using Eldar with shuriken weapons, that wouldn't help me, so I must have skipped past that bit.

Crusader almost never gets used if not just forgotten because it's basically useless. Oh I have to run? That extra die will definitely help my shooty army or my melee guys that can't charge afterwards, and rarely do we actually get to use sweeping advance. Speaking of that, with the current ways to just ignore leadership checks sweeping advance just becomes pointless.

 Jaxler wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

Arson Fire wrote:
Many tyranid monstrous creatures coming with an AP6 close combat weapon is kinda amusing. Particularly on those that are unable to replace it, or take a second one.

Adding to this, the Bloodcrusher's 6+ armor save.

6+ ARMOR SAVE. The thing has the freaking Daemonic Rule. Why the hell does this exist? And it doesn't even matter for Grav anyways since I think the default is 6 anyhow.

Probably as a place holder or something. Every unit I think has a save. It's probably there in case you find some rule that modifies saves in some way. If it had no save it'd be impossible or need some FAQ if it got something like a +1 to armor save reroll if armor saves.

Also it sorta kinda helps against dangerous terrain I guess.

Standard demon princes dont have a save unless you equip them with armour - on its stat list it just has a - where armour save is ...

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Cybork Armor. If you really want a FNP roll why not take a Dok? Why would they remove the only invulnerability besides a mek shield!?

Orks' latest codex was somewhat phoned in, IMO... Not the only or worst low-effort codex by a long shot, but still one of the most egregious.
I definitely don't think the change to Cybork body was a good one, so I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one that thinks so. If nothing else, it should stack with the Painboy's FNP bonus, gosh darnit!

How many people remember characters of the same initiative as non-characters must pile in first?

When is the last time you have used Glorious Intervention?

Youn wrote:
How many people remember characters of the same initiative as non-characters must pile in first?

When is the last time you have used Glorious Intervention?

I used Glorious Intervention last week!
I had a 2w Librarian in a Command Squad that only had one other character - A 1w apothecary. The Librarian was far more valuable, but twice as durable, so I put him in the challenge. Lo and behold, he took 1w - Since he was no longer any more durable, I swapped in the Apothecary to tank shots.

Oh wow, I had completely forgotten about glorious intervention. As in literally forgotten XD

so, if i am reading Glorious Intervention correctly:

Squad 1: Chaos Champion wielding two lightning claws with squad
Squad 2: Space Marine Captain with Powerfist,Command squad Sgt with power sword.


Squad 1 charges Squad 2.

Round 1, Squad 1 turn: Chaos champion challenges Sgt Accepts, Nothing happens drawn combat.

Round 2, Squad 2's turn:
Chaos Champion kills Sgt,
Space Marine Captain declares Glorious Invention because challenge is considered to be going til end of phase, Space Marine captains wounds must all be allocated on Chaos Champion first before he hits rest of squad.

v0iddrgn wrote:
I'm gonna say Fear, Acute Senses, Vector Dancer and Strafing Run. These rules are practically useless and superfluous to boot.

While I agree with the others I wouldn't say vector dancer is useless, it makes flyers a lot more maneuverable. It very often allows me to shoot a vehicles rear armour instead of the side and it gives you much greater control over what you can do in the following turn.

Well, let us see:

Fear. Almost worthless in the current edition, the top three armies (which are the most popular) either have masses of LD or in one case outright ignore it. Even beyond them, most armies have access to LD9+ and even LD8 Guard have access to Company Banners that let you re-roll morale checks, and a Baneblade with the Command Tank and Commissariat Cre upgrades just about ensures nothing will run. And this is before we factor in priests.

Soul Blaze. This rule usually boils down to just another dice roll that one has to make. And in all honesty in my entire time playing I have seen about 4 casualties caused by it (and this was back when Timmy spammed homebrewed units with soulblaze)

Objective Secured. What does it actually do? Back when only units with Obsec could take objectives it made sense, but now?

Concussive. It does what exactly? Most units with it will utterly demolish the foe in CC anyway, And those that wont are what, I1 anyway.

Shotguns for Guard veterans. Not really a special rule, but it makes no sense. Unlike Muhren shotguns Guard shotguns are S3. You lose 12" of range and the ability to FRFSRF to gain the ability to assault after shooting. Yes, assault. With the second worst melee faction in the game.
9That being said, my Engineers unit [PF, HF, 2 Meltaguns, Carapce, Demolitions, Vox and Shotguns] has earned a somewhat notorious reputation amongst my opponents - wiping out a 30K Veteran unit built for CC in CC might have helped)

Outflanking. Although this is a personal one - the rule makes no sense. How come you can freely walk your units right into point blank range with my units at any point up to and including my deployment zone, and yet I cannot shoot you as you approach? Sure people claim "oh it helps discourage gunlines" but the only gunline armies that actually need a nerf can quite easily negate it/make it incredibly costly to do so.

Seize the Initiative. A 1-in-6 chance for my opponent to take both the Tactical AND Strategic initiative with no downsides. Who's good idea was this?

Snapshoot. For when you have to have to make the choice between moving or shooting. Of course, you cannot shoot a weapon with explosive ammunition, and shooting at charging enemies is really hard, especially when they are making no attempt to use cover.

Hull Points. Why oh why do vehicles have wounds, and why oh why do ineffectual (glancing) hits cause them to lose wounds.

 roflmajog wrote:

v0iddrgn wrote:
I'm gonna say Fear, Acute Senses, Vector Dancer and Strafing Run. These rules are practically useless and superfluous to boot.

While I agree with the others I wouldn't say vector dancer is useless, it makes flyers a lot more maneuverable. It very often allows me to shoot a vehicles rear armour instead of the side and it gives you much greater control over what you can do in the following turn.

Vector dancer is a pain when being used by an exarch in a crimson hunter...

 master of ordinance wrote:

Objective Secured. What does it actually do? Back when only units with Obsec could take objectives it made sense, but now?

ObSec units override enemy units without the rule. So two units are within the range of an objective:

Both without ObSec: Contested
One with ObSec, one without: Controlled by unit with ObSec
Both with ObSec: Contested

Basically ObSec units can control objectives better than non-ObSec, but only in the sense of preventing enemy units from contesting them.

 Jambles wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

Objective Secured. What does it actually do? Back when only units with Obsec could take objectives it made sense, but now?

ObSec units override enemy units without the rule. So two units are within the range of an objective:

Both without ObSec: Contested
One with ObSec, one without: Controlled by unit with ObSec
Both with ObSec: Contested

Basically ObSec units can control objectives better than non-ObSec, but only in the sense of preventing enemy units from contesting them.

But if you really want an objective you destroy what's trying to stop you from having it.
Making the rule pointless 99% of the time (In my experience)

Jbz` wrote:

 Jambles wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

Objective Secured. What does it actually do? Back when only units with Obsec could take objectives it made sense, but now?

ObSec units override enemy units without the rule. So two units are within the range of an objective:

Both without ObSec: Contested
One with ObSec, one without: Controlled by unit with ObSec
Both with ObSec: Contested

Basically ObSec units can control objectives better than non-ObSec, but only in the sense of preventing enemy units from contesting them.

But if you really want an objective you destroy what's trying to stop you from having it.
Making the rule pointless 99% of the time (In my experience)

Personally, I see it used a lot. Sometimes you don't have the time or firepower to destroy a unit holding an objective. I've won more than one game by having a weak ObSec tarpit unit hold a crucial objective while locked in combat with the enemy deathstar unit.

Because it's funny in the final round when a few surviving grots take the objective from decurion necrons and grab the win. Or an obsec trukk with reinforced ram tank shocking it's way into an objective in a maelstrom game.

Glorious Intervention Convo: I considered using it on Monday when my invisible Chaos Sorcerer was in a challenge with an invisible Belakor while Ahriman was also in the fight. But then I remembered that Belakor had a potentially instant-deathing sword and Ahriman didn't have Eternal Warrior, so I decided not to. That has been the only time ever that I considered taking advantage of that rule, and I still didn't .

Jambles wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

Objective Secured. What does it actually do? Back when only units with Obsec could take objectives it made sense, but now?

ObSec units override enemy units without the rule. So two units are within the range of an objective:

Both without ObSec: Contested
One with ObSec, one without: Controlled by unit with ObSec
Both with ObSec: Contested

Basically ObSec units can control objectives better than non-ObSec, but only in the sense of preventing enemy units from contesting them.

Wow, okay, it actually does something! But:

 Jambles wrote:

But if you really want an objective you destroy what's trying to stop you from having it.
Making the rule pointless 99% of the time (In my experience)

In all honesty if I am close enough to the enemy for Obsec to become an issue I have already lost the objective. Better to blast the enemy off it and risk losing out elsewhere.

Jbz` wrote:

 Jambles wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

Objective Secured. What does it actually do? Back when only units with Obsec could take objectives it made sense, but now?

ObSec units override enemy units without the rule. So two units are within the range of an objective:

Both without ObSec: Contested
One with ObSec, one without: Controlled by unit with ObSec
Both with ObSec: Contested

Basically ObSec units can control objectives better than non-ObSec, but only in the sense of preventing enemy units from contesting them.

But if you really want an objective you destroy what's trying to stop you from having it.
Making the rule pointless 99% of the time (In my experience)

That only really happens in a mismatch.
I've lost games because one model with Obj Sec survived the scouring.

Obsec really isn't useless, neither is vector dancer.

I agree soul blaze needs a massive biff tough. Lots of rolling for not a lot of effect.

Soul blaze, crusader, fear, strike down concussive to name a few

Soul blaze never does anything

Crusaders just worthless. Considering abaddon has to have it as warlord

Fear never does what it needs to

Strike down and concussive are never on good enough weapons in combat or ranged, really. Concussive only works on a decent weapon vs an independent character

How about all the special rules that just give multiple special rules?

Not useless, kinda dumb though.

A bit out there, but, the Vessel of Shyak the seeker is way up there on useless rules. A CSM rule that only affects other csm with a specific icon .

I mean crusader is not bad in 30k same with fear. I think the bigger issue with a lot of these rules such as fear and crusader is leadership abilities are way to prevalent.

Like there is no reason everything should have fearless / atsknf / rerolls morals everywhere.

This is one of the biggest issues in the core rule set is gw decided there is no reason for leadership to exist.

Fear tests are one reason why phantasm grenades suck for dark eldar. It could be good if leadership debuffs were more prevalent in the army, we could stack the fear tests and they also could pin if a unit had ATSKNF. If they had all 3 of those things they might be worth taking. However that is not the case and it sucks massively.

Feels like Fearless and Death Korps should be the only two things that stops fear entirely.

All of them, now....

Sorry: couldn't resist. Also, not true, If I don't move on to 8th, I'll carry on as if it hadn't happened....

Obsec is basically the most important thing if you fight Necrons in a decurion, as you can never simply "blast them of the objective". The rule might be situational in kill point games, but it's far from useless, I build whole armies around it and it's the only reason people use the Chaos Warband instead of sth. else.