Automatically Appended Next Post: Deaths stars are no more
Characters can't join units
Characters will have AOE auras and abilities
Characters under 10 wounds can't be targeted by shooting attacks unless they are the closest model
The final part of the Character ruleset is Heroic Intervention. This allows Characters near a combat to pile in and attack if the enemy comes close enough, even if they themselves aren’t charged (because your Chaplain’s not just gonna stand there and let your Assault Squad have all the fun now is he?)
I like the new rules. They make sense and create tactical options. But until we know which units are going to be a character we don't know how this will effect games in 8th editon. Is a Hive Tyrant going to be a character or a night bringer? I don't think so cuz that would make those very hard to shoot at.
I'm not convinced. It seems like they've gone a bit too far by stopping characters joining units. It would have made more sense to more carefully test and restrict special rules and combos than taking this approach. It already seems to have its own issues, as highlighted by Guilliman falling just below the magic 10-wounds threshold and therefore being invulnerable.
I like the idea of characters being used in more of a support role now, though. That's been missing from 40k for a long time (except where that support means "providing psychic buff to make unit invulnerable").
I'm good with this. Overlapping effects could still make proto-death stars. I'll assume they know what they're doing. After all we have the AoS test bed.
They did testing. A lot of testing. They brought in the main people behind the ITC tournaments as well as people heading other tournaments as testers and consultants.
I have to be honest; my reaction to this is to scream inwardly about how I'm supposed to pull off FnP wound allocation shenanigans now. Which is probably a good thing.
This is a pretty decent compromise. I appreciate the targeting rule and it will make positioning more important for both sides. I am very interested to see what kind of command auras there are, and whether you have any options in choosing or purchasing them.
Not at all a fan of untargetable characters. If anyone remembers older editions where this rule was in effect, they will remember some of the more absurd gimmickry and abuse this opened up.
The rest I'm fine with, but the untargetable characters is absolutely going to develop into an issue.
Vaktathi wrote: Not at all a fan of untargetable characters. If anyone remembers older editions where this rule was in effect, they will remember some of the more absurd gimmickry and abuse this opened up.
The rest I'm fine with, but the untargetable characters is absolutely going to develop into an issue.
They aren't untargetable, they just have to be closest.
I'm not going to lie, I'm not a WAAC type but I can't help exploiting things like this and you're right. I will do everything I can to make my IC nearly invulnerable until he makes it into CC. However, the alternative is having IC's become virtually obsolete due to equally exploitative sniping tactics.
Luciferian wrote: I'm not going to lie, I'm not a WAAC type but I can't help exploiting things like this and you're right. I will do everything I can to make my IC nearly invulnerable until he makes it into CC. However, the alternative is having IC's become virtually obsolete due to equally exploitative sniping tactics.
I think everyone does what they can to protect a potentially vulnerable points investment.
Assuming that there isn't some rule for AOE overlap. After all, it seems like the character's AOE is very much tied to what 'unit' the character belongs to, Incubi for Drazhar, Kroot for Shapers. If I had to guess, the powerful auras will be for very specific units, and the more generalized auras will have a weaker effect.
This does mean you can now charge the character, take overwatch from the character and then pile into the unit he is standing near. Effectively, saving yourself from a mass of overwatch to take just the characters overwatch on your unit.
One glaring issue with this, is can ICs ride in transports? If they count as their own unit, and you can't have multiple units in 1 transport, that is a huge problem!
I guess it's safe to say Gate of Infinity is dead.
Edit-
This change i am just so disappointed in. Not at all happy with this.
Well. First finally. Personally I think this helps commisssars. Now my Lord Comissar can go and stand in the middle, whole esch squad of guardsman can get shot by him while remaining independent squads. Put the conscripits in the front, and now he isn't able to be shot. I basically can clump my squads without needing to blob them, so they don't all break and I end up losing two hundred models to the new leadership test.
Vaktathi wrote: Not at all a fan of untargetable characters. If anyone remembers older editions where this rule was in effect, they will remember some of the more absurd gimmickry and abuse this opened up.
The rest I'm fine with, but the untargetable characters is absolutely going to develop into an issue.
They aren't untargetable, they just have to be closest.
right, but with how trivially easy it is to ensure that, in effect it will mean untargetable most of the time, particularly before turn 4 or so.
Youn wrote: This does mean you can now charge the character, take overwatch from the character and then pile into the unit he is standing near. Effectively, saving yourself from a mass of overwatch to take just the characters overwatch on your unit.
Unlikely you get often chance. If unit is that close its likelym closer
Heroes not being able to be sniped seems like a big change from AoS, possibly for the better. In a lot of AoS batreps, it seems like the heroes always get kept at the back, lest they get shot to hell.
Youn wrote: This does mean you can now charge the character, take overwatch from the character and then pile into the unit he is standing near. Effectively, saving yourself from a mass of overwatch to take just the characters overwatch on your unit.
Unless pile-ins trigger overwatch.
And wasn't there some word in the FAQ about characters being targetable if they were the closest or within 6" of the shooter?
And Guilliman doesn't just "happen" to "magically" fall under the 10 wound limit. He was clearly given 9 wounds instead of 10 specifically to put him below the limit.
I play alot of jump troops. So, it should be possible to jump to the side of a unit and end up closer to the character. The goal though is to get the rest of your troops closer to the other unit then the character. That way you can pile in correctly.
Youn wrote: This does mean you can now charge the character, take overwatch from the character and then pile into the unit he is standing near. Effectively, saving yourself from a mass of overwatch to take just the characters overwatch on your unit.
Unless pile-ins trigger overwatch.
And wasn't there some word in the FAQ about characters being targetable if they were the closest or within 6" of the shooter?
And Guilliman doesn't just "happen" to "magically" fall under the 10 wound limit. He was clearly given 9 wounds instead of 10 specifically to put him below the limit.
Except it clearly says in the article: "applies to all Characters with a Wounds characteristic of 10 OR less" (emphasis mine)
Marmatag wrote: One glaring issue with this, is can ICs ride in transports? If they count as their own unit, and you can't have multiple units in 1 transport, that is a huge problem!
I guess it's safe to say Gate of Infinity is dead.
Edit-
This change i am just so disappointed in. Not at all happy with this.
I would expect a variant of the following rules to make it into 40k.
Spoiler:
Vessel: An Arkanaut Frigate can carry 10 Skyfarer models, allowing them to move swiftly across the battlefield and in relative safety.
Overburdened: If you wish, your Arkanaut Frigate can carry up to 15 Skyfarer models. For each Skyfarer over 10 that it carries, reduce the Frigate’s Move characteristic by 1".
Set-up: When you set up an Arkanaut Frigate, units of Skyfarers can start the battle embarked within it instead of being set up separately – declare which units are embarked inside the Arkanaut Frigate when you set it up.
Embark: If all models in a Skyfarer unit can move to within 3" of a friendly Arkanaut Frigate in the movement phase, they can embark within it. Remove the unit from the battlefield and place it to one side – it is now embarked inside the vessel. Embarked units cannot normally do anything or be affected in any way whilst they are embarked. Unless specifically stated, abilities that affect other units within a certain range have no effect on a unit that is embarked or whilst the unit that has the ability is embarked, and you cannot measure from or to an embarked unit. If the Arkanaut Frigate is destroyed, the passengers immediately bail out: roll a dice for each model embarked within it. For each roll of 1, a model from that model’s unit (your choice) is slain. The embarked units must then disembark before the vessel is removed.
Disembark: Any unit that begins its hero phase embarked within an Arkanaut Frigate can disembark during the hero phase. When a unit disembarks, set it up so that all its models are within 3" of the vessel and none are within 3" of any enemy models – any disembarking model that cannot be set up in this way is slain. Units that disembark can then act normally, including using abilities that can be used in the hero phase, for the remainder of their turn. Note that a unit cannot both disembark and embark in the same turn
As you can see.. it is based on models with the same KEYWORD.
It doesn't really change anything for all regular players ( or the rules we have seen previewed) and at th same thing it kills off two things I really disliked about 7th deathstarts and rule bickering about stuff that happens when IC join units. : D
tneva82 wrote: Wonder what keyword chimera would have. Am only doesn't cut it
I would guess it would say 12 Models of Adeptus Militarium, Adeptus Arbite or Inquisition may embark. Then on ogryn say, Ogryn count as two models for purposes of riding on Vehicles.
Pancakey wrote: Warhammer Test Room - "Oh damn all characters under 10 wounds just keep dying what should we do!?!?"
Given that this was a rule in previous editions, I'm certain the conversation went exactly the opposite of this. I.E. "Big characters are too easy to protect under these rules. Okay, how about models with over 10 wounds don't gain the protection of nearby units? Perfect!"
Automatically Appended Next Post:
secretForge wrote: You can just imagine that 9 wound character smirking at his 10 wound cousin.
Or those daemon princes of nurgle being left out because poppa nurgle gave them one too many wounds (pure conjecture but it would be funny).
As mentioned before, the article clearly states that models with 10 wounds or under are protected. So 11 is the break point, not 10.
It is clear that doing 10 wounds in the new shooting phase is going to be easy so they threw a patch on the rules to save all 10 wound characters from dying to shooting on turn 1.
Can't afford to invest in 40k but will definitely be trying some of these rules as AoS houserules. I suspect if we ever get an update to the core ruleset this particular one will be in there anyway. Bit envious you guys seem to be getting almost the non beta version of AoS though after all our guinea pigging!
jeff white wrote: Overlapping AOEs make for cloud storage death stars?
Death clouds? Clouds of death?
A lot depends on what the AOEs are, and what units they effect. Further based on the rules you cannot have a character tank wounds for a unit, so having one 2+ save character with FNP etc won't be as big a deal for protecting a unit. I mean deathstars will still exist, they always have, as far as a really expensive durable, killy unit is a deathstar (termies in a land raider, TWC etc). The difference will be that hopefully that unit will no longer be fast, unkillable, and super killy. Also depending on how easy AP is to get, and how available invul saves are, re-rolling good saves may not be as good. Also you can no longer use the movement of a fast unit to pull a slower character into combat.
He is looking at the fact he can place his warboss in the center of a pile of 30 boyz and pretty much have 30 ablative wounds on that warboss. Since, I am pretty sure you're allowed to take causalities from wherever you want in the unit.
And assuming that boss also is 6-7 wounds. He is pretty tough.
Deathstars still sort of exist, they just are overlapping auras on the units within the radius.
If you put 3 characters together with 3-4 units tightly wrapped around them. Then you have a huge number of troops all effected by the auras of those three characters including the characters themselves.
Vaktathi wrote: Not at all a fan of untargetable characters. If anyone remembers older editions where this rule was in effect, they will remember some of the more absurd gimmickry and abuse this opened up.
The rest I'm fine with, but the untargetable characters is absolutely going to develop into an issue.
I was about to point out you could just center blasts on nearby units to hit them....
Youn wrote: He is looking at the fact he can place his warboss in the center of a pile of 30 boyz and pretty much have 30 ablative wounds on that warboss. Since, I am pretty sure you're allowed to take causalities from wherever you want in the unit.
And assuming that boss also is 6-7 wounds. He is pretty tough.
Deathstars still sort of exist, they just are overlapping auras on the units within the radius.
If you put 3 characters together with 3-4 units tightly wrapped around them. Then you have a huge number of troops all effected by the auras of those three characters including the characters themselves.
This basically changes nothing for Nids. We are used to overlapping bubbles, we only had one IC no one took and almost all of our characters are over 10 wounds.
I will expect retinues to be standard for almost every character though. That would make them into a unit.
Youn wrote: He is looking at the fact he can place his warboss in the center of a pile of 30 boyz and pretty much have 30 ablative wounds on that warboss. Since, I am pretty sure you're allowed to take causalities from wherever you want in the unit.
And assuming that boss also is 6-7 wounds. He is pretty tough.
Deathstars still sort of exist, they just are overlapping auras on the units within the radius.
If you put 3 characters together with 3-4 units tightly wrapped around them. Then you have a huge number of troops all effected by the auras of those three characters including the characters themselves.
This completely depends on the power of said auras, and the ability for them to effect different units. I would assume that those that effect the most units are not that powerful, whereas those that effect a narrow unit type will be more powerful.
So if for instance a Dark Angles chaplain has an aura of using his LD for all space marine units within 6", Sameal has say -1 to hit against all Ravenwing units within 3", and Belial has +1 attack for all Deathwing units within 6", then overlapping those won't do much. If say Azreal gets +1 save to all Dark Angels within 6" then a combination of him and 2 of the others could be good, but if you use Deathwing now the effected units are very expensive, if you use RW it will slow you down to stay in the aura. It is also possible that some auras will only effect models while others effect units.
Gloomfang wrote: This basically changes nothing for Nids. We are used to overlapping bubbles, we only had one IC no one took and almost all of our characters are over 10 wounds.
I will expect retinues to be standard for almost every character though..
And this is how it should work. The rules doesn't change much for regular players while at the same time obliterating the lists of shenanigan lists.
You can just imagine that 9 wound character smirking at his 10 wound cousin.
Or those daemon princes of nurgle being left out because poppa nurgle gave them one too many wounds (pure conjecture but it would be funny).
Dont forget though they mention Magnus at 10+ wounds has an inv save. I can forsee the 10+ brigade gaining some survivability by having invs whereas those down the chain might not. Interesting.
Vaktathi wrote: Not at all a fan of untargetable characters. If anyone remembers older editions where this rule was in effect, they will remember some of the more absurd gimmickry and abuse this opened up.
The rest I'm fine with, but the untargetable characters is absolutely going to develop into an issue.
This could lead to the funny scenario were a group of Eldar are trying to kill Guilliman and on one side of the are a unit of Space marine scouts and on the opposite side in his ornate armor, massive size and flaming sword is Guilliman and because all the sout models are 1 inch closer then him they "have difficulty in picking out individuals amidst the maelstrom of battle" and don't know which is Guilliman.
They aren't untargetable, they just have to be closest.
tneva82 wrote:Wonder what keyword chimera would have. Am only doesn't cut it
Vaktathi wrote:Not at all a fan of untargetable characters. If anyone remembers older editions where this rule was in effect, they will remember some of the more absurd gimmickry and abuse this opened up.
The rest I'm fine with, but the untargetable characters is absolutely going to develop into an issue.
The IG write-up mentions sniper weapons being able to target characters regardless of closest model. Get ready to break out those Ratlings!
Grimgold wrote:If Necron Deathmarks are anything like they are in 7th ed they just became the game over IC assassins.
Not necessarily. It depends too much on how Deep Strike operates. I heard one rumor that it was more like a mid-game Infiltrate than what we have now. In other words, you place the unit on the table without deviation, but outside of a distance from any enemy unit. Deathmarks would carry no more advantage here than Stealth Suits or a Stern Pod squad.
Pancakey wrote: It is clear that doing 10 wounds in the new shooting phase is going to be easy so they threw a patch on the rules to save all 10 wound characters from dying to shooting on turn 1.
Pancakey, literally all you do is post hyperbolic statements about the overpowered nature of shooting in 8th as if it is exponentially more viable than it was in 7th. Do you ever get tired of this?
With each roll out its clear that 8th edition is going to exceptionally clunky.
I was no fan of the 23,493 formations with cheese sauce in 7th, but 8th just seems like all the changes are being "fixed" with new rules like this "cannot target IC if less than 11 wounds and not closest unless you are a snipers etc etc etc. ". CLUNKY AS HELL!
Pancakey wrote: With each roll out its clear that 8th edition is going to exceptionally clunky.
I was no fan of the 23,493 formations with cheese sauce in 7th, but 8th just seems like all the changes are being "fixed" with new rules like this "cannot target IC if less than 11 wounds and not closest unless you are a snipers etc etc etc. ". CLUNKY AS HELL!
It is objectively much, much less clunky than 7th. 3rd-7th were the reign of self-contradictory USR's, exceptions and bloat as the norm. To say that 8th is more complex and clunky is just patently false.
Vaktathi wrote:Not at all a fan of untargetable characters. If anyone remembers older editions where this rule was in effect, they will remember some of the more absurd gimmickry and abuse this opened up.
The rest I'm fine with, but the untargetable characters is absolutely going to develop into an issue.
The IG write-up mentions sniper weapons being able to target characters regardless of closest model. Get ready to break out those Ratlings!
my rangers, scout snipers, and ratlings are all going to throw a party at Illic's house
but seriously Illic just got a power boost along with 9to a lesser extent) telion
Grimgold wrote:If Necron Deathmarks are anything like they are in 7th ed they just became the game over IC assassins.
Not necessarily. It depends too much on how Deep Strike operates. I heard one rumor that it was more like a mid-game Infiltrate than what we have now. In other words, you place the unit on the table without deviation, but outside of a distance from any enemy unit. Deathmarks would carry no more advantage here than Stealth Suits or a Stern Pod squad.
Other than wounding on 2s in the round they land and having rapid fire sniper rifles. 10 of them would be a nearly guaranteed kill on any 5 wound ICs, (2/3 * 2/3 * 1/3) + (2/3 * 1/6 * 5/6), 4 shots to a wound, 20 shots, most likely outcome, death. Sternguard and stealth suits may come close but it's going to cost a lot more points to get there, at least at going 7th ed rates, and neither of those units seems like they are due for points reduction.
Pancakey wrote: With each roll out its clear that 8th edition is going to exceptionally clunky.
I was no fan of the 23,493 formations with cheese sauce in 7th, but 8th just seems like all the changes are being "fixed" with new rules like this "cannot target IC if less than 11 wounds and not closest unless you are a snipers etc etc etc. ". CLUNKY AS HELL!
It is objectively much, much less clunky than 7th. 3rd-7th were the reign of self-contradictory USR's, exceptions and bloat as the norm. To say that 8th is more complex and clunky is just patently false.
I would say that it is not internally more complex and clunky, but we have zero idea on how the new army list entries are going to be set up, so the external complexity and clunkiness are still unknowns.
I would imagine them to be no more complex and clunky than AoS has been, i.e. relying on one or two unit special rules at most to differentiate the units from each other, but GW has gone against their own curve before.
I wonder what happens to all those units/character that buff things like 'auto look out sir', 'no deepstrike scatter'.
Maybe they get a variant like 1 unit may deepstrike within 6" without scatter or something.
Makes my ethereal somewhat happy. Although just saying that makes me immediate fear the 'Tau are OP' repercussions as it doesn't hugely affect Tau save the Buffmander who really needed to go the way of the Dodo anyway.
tneva82 wrote:Wonder what keyword chimera would have. Am only doesn't cut it
Probbably Imperial.
I suspect they'll list them separately in each army's roster of units. The Inquisition list will have an "Inquisitorial Chimera" that can carry a fixed number of models with the "Inquisition" keyword, Adeptus Militarum will have a similarly restricted Chimera of their own, etc. I could see some characters might work the same way, like if they gave the Priest the Inquisition, Adeptus Militarum, and Adepta Sororitas keywords so he could board the transports of those armies, or maybe he just appears on each of those army rosters with a different keyword. A Priest you bought for your AM couldn't ride with an Inquisition unit bought as part of a different detachment, but could ride in an AM Chimera, etc.
Pancakey wrote: With each roll out its clear that 8th edition is going to exceptionally clunky.
I was no fan of the 23,493 formations with cheese sauce in 7th, but 8th just seems like all the changes are being "fixed" with new rules like this "cannot target IC if less than 11 wounds and not closest unless you are a snipers etc etc etc. ". CLUNKY AS HELL!
It is objectively much, much less clunky than 7th. 3rd-7th were the reign of self-contradictory USR's, exceptions and bloat as the norm. To say that 8th is more complex and clunky is just patently false.
I would say that it is not internally more complex and clunky, but we have zero idea on how the new army list entries are going to be set up, so the external complexity and clunkiness are still unknowns.
I would imagine them to be no more complex and clunky than AoS has been, i.e. relying on one or two unit special rules at most to differentiate the units from each other, but GW has gone against their own curve before.
I'm on board with the latter two opinions, and I'm willing to bet that gameplay is significantly streamlined compared to 7th (or the preceding editions), as well. I'm very hesitant to forman opinion of the game yet since we obviously don't know how everything will come together once the complete rules are released, but I've liked all the changes I've seen so far to some degree. I remain hopeful that the game will kick serious bootay.
Viridian wrote: Everyone is a nid player now dealing with synapse like abilities. Great... sounds like, a lot of fun...
except they have to be in range for a bonus, those guardsman might not be stubborn with the commassar gone but aty least they will not immediately start eating eachother. and space marines without the presence of a primarch are not suddenly running for cover and just keep fighting
My biggest fear is Guilliman being anything remotely like current Guilliman. The ability to hide behind units that conveniently Magnus doesn't have (lets hope flight is similar, it could just be like AoS flight rules) makes him scary.
Gives me the heebie jeebies I tell ya. On another note, Shaper special character? Are the days of pure kroot army finally here?
Youn wrote: Well, it does have 10 wounds in AoS. So, I would guess it would remain the same in 40k.
There's no killer cut point of 11 wounds that's as huge as it is in 40k.
Of course Q is do they want to have GUO hiding behind cultists or not. But I'm on camp of expecting them to not be hideable so he will break the 10 wound limit into "oh crap every lascannon is aiming me" area.
This means a cryptek doesn't need to join a unit. You just have him hover in the middle of your necron blobs to give the boost to reanimation protocols.
Youn wrote: Your probably right in that they will push it up into the 11+ range. Looking though the warscrolls the Daemon Princes are 8 wounds.
Which would allow one to hide in a crowd. Assuming MONSTER doesn't automatically make it targetable.
They have already used Guilliman as an example of someone who would not be targetable, and his a monstrous creature. So my money would be that a non-flying daemon prince would not be targetable. That's a good change though, these guys are pretty easy to blow out of the water without power armor. And you can't take power armor in a grav meta.
Youn wrote: Your probably right in that they will push it up into the 11+ range. Looking though the warscrolls the Daemon Princes are 8 wounds.
Which would allow one to hide in a crowd. Assuming MONSTER doesn't automatically make it targetable.
They have already used Guilliman as an example of someone who would not be targetable, and his a monstrous creature. So my money would be that a non-flying daemon prince would not be targetable. That's a good change though, these guys are pretty easy to blow out of the water without power armor. And you can't take power armor in a grav meta.
I am starting to think that "Flying" won't matter. "Hard to Hit" probably does not exist in 8th, so if you can target a flying DP, it will die. The balance then comes from it not being able to really use its movement because it would make itself be closer and thus targetable. It also might mean the "wings" won't be such a 'no-brainer' since DPs will likely have a good M stat naturally and wings would only extend that. It you don't want to be that close, wings become a liability (to a very small degree)
Bad choice of words, look at the Imperial Guard faction focus, they literally say ratling snipers can target characters, meaning characters can literally be sniped.
Viridian wrote: Everyone is a nid player now dealing with synapse like abilities. Great... sounds like, a lot of fun...
Jup,whats not to like : )
Welcome to the club. You are still food. Zoggy has it right though. Most armies would kill to actually have a commander that, you know, actually does more than just command a single unit that gets turned into little more than his personal kill and shield squad. And take it from the Nid player who actually runs very little synapse compared to the rest of his army, you can stretch a 12-18in bubble pretty dang far! Heck, IG will sing praises over the fact that they may only need 1 commissar now to watch over multiple squads of conscripts, etc. Are you telling me you honestly liked having to throw 2-3x the points value of models at a single unit just because the other guy decided to make an fairly absurd combination of abilities that made it nearly impossible to deal with?
tneva82 wrote:Wonder what keyword chimera would have. Am only doesn't cut it
Probbably Imperial.
I suspect they'll list them separately in each army's roster of units. The Inquisition list will have an "Inquisitorial Chimera" that can carry a fixed number of models with the "Inquisition" keyword, Adeptus Militarum will have a similarly restricted Chimera of their own, etc. I could see some characters might work the same way, like if they gave the Priest the Inquisition, Adeptus Militarum, and Adepta Sororitas keywords so he could board the transports of those armies, or maybe he just appears on each of those army rosters with a different keyword. A Priest you bought for your AM couldn't ride with an Inquisition unit bought as part of a different detachment, but could ride in an AM Chimera, etc.
You know that Terminators can ride in a Chimera? They just take up two spaces.
I remember back in 4th Ed. in the Daemonhunters book, if you shot out the top of a Chimera it counted as Open-Topped unless you had 3+ or better armour. Psycannon Marines in a Chimera, the fun. Or a cheap transport for the Terminators.
Everyone saying it's not fluffy now with characters leading from the front and that they now have to cowardly hide behind units.
Can still have them out front and lead the charge, just makes it extra heroic.
And also they were cowardly last edition. Only reason you could put it out front because you'd look out sir the hits. Heroically shoving people infront of you anyway at the first sign of getting shot.
Can still have them out front and lead the charge, just makes it extra heroic.
There should be a heroism bonus: "If your character is the closest model to the enemy, they get +2 attacks in the next assault phase"*
*tongue in cheek, but I can't see why anyone would play a sci-fi/fantasy tabletop game and not have some mighty hero charging the enemy with their weapon held high! Realise the drama!
corpuschain wrote: *tongue in cheek, but I can't see why anyone would play a sci-fi/fantasy tabletop game and not have some mighty hero charging the enemy with their weapon held high! Realise the drama!
*Mighty hero yells to his squad. ADVANCE!*
*Mighty hero starts to run toward enemy*
*Enemy commander notes a foolish hero coming toward and twists a finger*
*Lascannon splats the mighty hero to death*
HANZERtank wrote: Everyone saying it's not fluffy now with characters leading from the front and that they now have to cowardly hide behind units.
Can still have them out front and lead the charge, just makes it extra heroic.
And also they were cowardly last edition. Only reason you could put it out front because you'd look out sir the hits. Heroically shoving people infront of you anyway at the first sign of getting shot.
corpuschain wrote: *tongue in cheek, but I can't see why anyone would play a sci-fi/fantasy tabletop game and not have some mighty hero charging the enemy with their weapon held high! Realise the drama!
*Mighty hero yells to his squad. ADVANCE!*
*Mighty hero starts to run toward enemy*
*Enemy commander notes a foolish hero coming toward and twists a finger*
*Lascannon splats the mighty hero to death*
Lascannon misses and explodes a barrel behind him, because its a fantasy setting and the hero doesn't die to a measely mook with a big gun. He gets shot by several hundred guns and keeps going because he's the hero.
LOS was never really a "throw your buddy into the line of fire" for the likes of Space Marines, Eldar, or Tau. Its called "Look Out, Sir!" because their humble mook spotted the incoming shot, and lept in front, taking the bullet because their measley role in the infantry was inconsequential, but the great hero that was (Commander X) is a vital component. For the likes of Orks, Chaos, Ad Mech (with servitors or Skitarii for exampple), Dark Eldar, it was in fact a leader throwing the mook in front to take the bullet, because "feth the mook, I want to live." Tyranids even a stage further, purposefully sacrificing themselves to protect bigger creatures. Particularly with the second example, extremely fluffy. Can you really imagine a Dark Eldar Archon standing around on his own, asking to get shot, while there's perfectly good cannon fodder/Kabalite Warriors over there to hide behind? Or even an Honour Guard not heroic leaping into the path of the Lascannon to protect his Chapter Master? Or a Dire Avenger Exarch stepping forward to die on the enemy's blade so the Farseer can escape and lead their people another day?
Deadshot wrote: Lascannon misses and explodes a barrel behind him, because its a fantasy setting and the hero doesn't die to a measely mook with a big gun. He gets shot by several hundred guns and keeps going because he's the hero.
Have fun trusting that in 8th ed. Me? I put him behind the guys rather than front because otherwise the scenario I pointed out plays out.
As fun as it's charging up ahead that's way too easily killed. That's answer to this:
" I can't see why anyone would play a sci-fi/fantasy tabletop game and not have some mighty hero charging the enemy with their weapon held high! Realise the drama! "
Okay tongue in cheeck but still. That's why lots of people won't have him charging the enemy weapons held in high. Instead first the chaff in and then follow them.
Deadshot wrote: Lascannon misses and explodes a barrel behind him, because its a fantasy setting and the hero doesn't die to a measely mook with a big gun. He gets shot by several hundred guns and keeps going because he's the hero.
Have fun trusting that in 8th ed. Me? I put him behind the guys rather than front because otherwise the scenario I pointed out plays out.
As fun as it's charging up ahead that's way too easily killed. That's answer to this:
" I can't see why anyone would play a sci-fi/fantasy tabletop game and not have some mighty hero charging the enemy with their weapon held high! Realise the drama! "
Okay tongue in cheeck but still. That's why lots of people won't have him charging the enemy weapons held in high. Instead first the chaff in and then follow them.
Completely agree with what your saying, 100% accurate, just not good. Some people do prefer a lead from the rear commander, best represented by having your character lead from the rear as with Imperial Guard or Mechanicus. Some other armies have lead from the rear commanders but many leaders are leaders also lead from the front, which is now a terrible tactic. Such commanders don't look at their warriors and say "Send in the chaff to soak up bullets" but rather say " Follow me my battle brothers, unto victory!" or "Move maggots, I'mma show you how this is done!"
Here's hoping that most normal HQs (ie things that aren't huge/monsters/etc), will come with retinues. So an IG commander with his bodyguards and advisors, the Warbosses with his gang of Nobz, the Ethereal with his elite fire warriors, etc.
Afrodactyl wrote: Here's hoping that most normal HQs (ie things that aren't huge/monsters/etc), will come with retinues. So an IG commander with his bodyguards and advisors, the Warbosses with his gang of Nobz, the Ethereal with his elite fire warriors, etc.
yea... retinues disappeared in 5th edition when characters could join units. I see them making a comeback...we will see.
regarding the 10+ wound IC being targetable...did the rules indicate if it becomes untargetable once it loses enough wounds to bring it to >10 ?
Afrodactyl wrote: Here's hoping that most normal HQs (ie things that aren't huge/monsters/etc), will come with retinues. So an IG commander with his bodyguards and advisors, the Warbosses with his gang of Nobz, the Ethereal with his elite fire warriors, etc.
yea... retinues disappeared in 5th edition when characters could join units. I see them making a comeback...we will see.
regarding the 10+ wound IC being targetable...did the rules indicate if it becomes untargetable once it loses enough wounds to bring it to >10 ?
Independent Characters have been around for a very long time.
What changed with Retinues with 5th Edition was that Independent Characters that had purchased Retinues with them, didn't stop being Independent Characters because of that Retinue. Those Retinues just became a slotless unit instead of being part of the Character's unit.
