New Warhammer 40,000: Characters - Newest Update for today

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**tneva82**

Unusual Suspect wrote:
secretForge wrote:
The biggest down side to this, is that you cant have your mighty heroes of war leading from the front.

Purely a thematic complaint, but I think ill miss my wedge formations headed up by mighty heroes.

Sure you can. It's just dangerous to do so (as it should be).

Using lotr example from othes thread that would result in aragorn being splattered befor reaching mordor line

**Youn**

I play alot of jump troops. So, it should be possible to jump to the side of a unit and end up closer to the character. The goal though is to get the rest of your troops closer to the other unit then the character. That way you can pile in correctly.

**docdoom77**

Purifier wrote:
Youn wrote:
This does mean you can now charge the character, take overwatch from the character and then pile into the unit he is standing near. Effectively, saving yourself from a mass of overwatch to take just the characters overwatch on your unit.

Unless pile-ins trigger overwatch.

And wasn't there some word in the FAQ about characters being targetable if they were the closest or within 6" of the shooter?

And Guilliman doesn't just "happen" to "magically" fall under the 10 wound limit. He was clearly given 9 wounds instead of 10 specifically to put him below the limit.

Except it clearly says in the article: "applies to all Characters with a Wounds characteristic of 10 OR less" (emphasis mine)

**Marmatag**

Surround your mighty HQs with cheap fodder units... it's a ranged tarpit.

**Youn**

Marmatag wrote:
One glaring issue with this, is can ICs ride in transports? If they count as their own unit, and you can't have multiple units in 1 transport, that is a huge problem!

I guess it's safe to say Gate of Infinity is dead.

Edit-

This change i am just so disappointed in. Not at all happy with this.

I would expect a variant of the following rules to make it into 40k.

Spoiler:

As you can see.. it is based on models with the same KEYWORD.

**tneva82**

Wonder what keyword chimera would have. Am only doesn't cut it

**Marmatag**

Well we don't have a lot to go on. Another thing is deep strike, how will this work?

**Unusual Suspect**

tneva82 wrote:
Unusual Suspect wrote:
secretForge wrote:
The biggest down side to this, is that you cant have your mighty heroes of war leading from the front.

Purely a thematic complaint, but I think ill miss my wedge formations headed up by mighty heroes.

Sure you can. It's just dangerous to do so (as it should be).

Using lotr example from othes thread that would result in aragorn being splattered befor reaching mordor line

Good.

From Facebook:

If you want something "tanky" in Warhammer 40,000, you should put your units in a tank.

No more independent characters magically intercepting an entire armies shooting on their tiny stormshield.

**oldzoggy**

I love this change.

It doesn't really change anything for all regular players ( or the rules we have seen previewed) and at th same thing it kills off two things I really disliked about 7th deathstarts and rule bickering about stuff that happens when IC join units. : D

**Pancakey**

Warhammer Test Room - "Oh damn all characters under 10 wounds just keep dying what should we do!?!?"

**Youn**

tneva82 wrote:
Wonder what keyword chimera would have. Am only doesn't cut it

I would guess it would say 12 Models of Adeptus Militarium, Adeptus Arbite or Inquisition may embark. Then on ogryn say, Ogryn count as two models for purposes of riding on Vehicles.

**secretForge**

You can just imagine that 9 wound character smirking at his 10 wound cousin.

Or those daemon princes of nurgle being left out because poppa nurgle gave them one too many wounds (pure conjecture but it would be funny).

**docdoom77**

Pancakey wrote:
Warhammer Test Room - "Oh damn all characters under 10 wounds just keep dying what should we do!?!?"

Given that this was a rule in previous editions, I'm certain the conversation went exactly the opposite of this. I.E. "Big characters are too easy to protect under these rules. Okay, how about models with over 10 wounds don't gain the protection of nearby units? Perfect!"

Automatically Appended Next Post:

secretForge wrote:
You can just imagine that 9 wound character smirking at his 10 wound cousin.

Or those daemon princes of nurgle being left out because poppa nurgle gave them one too many wounds (pure conjecture but it would be funny).

As mentioned before, the article clearly states that models with 10 wounds or under are protected. So 11 is the break point, not 10.

**Pancakey**

It is clear that doing 10 wounds in the new shooting phase is going to be easy so they threw a patch on the rules to save all 10 wound characters from dying to shooting on turn 1.

**Dai**

Can't afford to invest in 40k but will definitely be trying some of these rules as AoS houserules. I suspect if we ever get an update to the core ruleset this particular one will be in there anyway. Bit envious you guys seem to be getting almost the non beta version of AoS though after all our guinea pigging!

**oldzoggy**

Whooo we finally have High Toughness Ork warbozzes : )

**docdoom77**

oldzoggy wrote:
Whooo we finally have High Toughness Ork warbozzes : )

Where did this revelation come from?

**Breng77**

jeff white wrote:
Overlapping AOEs make for cloud storage death stars?
Death clouds? Clouds of death?

A lot depends on what the AOEs are, and what units they effect. Further based on the rules you cannot have a character tank wounds for a unit, so having one 2+ save character with FNP etc won't be as big a deal for protecting a unit. I mean deathstars will still exist, they always have, as far as a really expensive durable, killy unit is a deathstar (termies in a land raider, TWC etc). The difference will be that hopefully that unit will no longer be fast, unkillable, and super killy. Also depending on how easy AP is to get, and how available invul saves are, re-rolling good saves may not be as good. Also you can no longer use the movement of a fast unit to pull a slower character into combat.

**Youn**

He is looking at the fact he can place his warboss in the center of a pile of 30 boyz and pretty much have 30 ablative wounds on that warboss. Since, I am pretty sure you're allowed to take causalities from wherever you want in the unit.

And assuming that boss also is 6-7 wounds. He is pretty tough.

Deathstars still sort of exist, they just are overlapping auras on the units within the radius.

If you put 3 characters together with 3-4 units tightly wrapped around them. Then you have a huge number of troops all effected by the auras of those three characters including the characters themselves.

**G00fySmiley**

I am mixed feelings here my ork warboss on a bike will have to stop leading the charge. ork biker boys up front and nob bikers behind them .

**the_scotsman**

Vaktathi wrote:
Not at all a fan of untargetable characters. If anyone remembers older editions where this rule was in effect, they will remember some of the more absurd gimmickry and abuse this opened up.

The rest I'm fine with, but the untargetable characters is absolutely going to develop into an issue.

I was about to point out you could just center blasts on nearby units to hit them....

but then I remembered....

**Talamare**

Youn wrote:
He is looking at the fact he can place his warboss in the center of a pile of 30 boyz and pretty much have 30 ablative wounds on that warboss. Since, I am pretty sure you're allowed to take causalities from wherever you want in the unit.

And assuming that boss also is 6-7 wounds. He is pretty tough.

Deathstars still sort of exist, they just are overlapping auras on the units within the radius.

If you put 3 characters together with 3-4 units tightly wrapped around them. Then you have a huge number of troops all effected by the auras of those three characters including the characters themselves.

Deathstars are dead
RISE OF THE DEATHCLOUDS

**oldzoggy**

Have fun making your cheesy clouds of non overlapping aura's. With those keywod speciic buffs : )

Automatically Appended Next Post:

docdoom77 wrote:
oldzoggy wrote:
Whooo we finally have High Toughness Ork warbozzes : )

Where did this revelation come from?

Youn wrote:
He is looking at the fact he can place his warboss in the center of a pile of 30 boyz

Nope, they no longer have T4 as by majority Toughness rule. So YaY or T6 warbosses on bike actually using T6 : D

**Grimgold**

If Necron Deathmarks are anything like they are in 7th ed they just became the game over IC assassins.

**Gloomfang**

This basically changes nothing for Nids. We are used to overlapping bubbles, we only had one IC no one took and almost all of our characters are over 10 wounds.

I will expect retinues to be standard for almost every character though. That would make them into a unit.

**Breng77**

Youn wrote:
He is looking at the fact he can place his warboss in the center of a pile of 30 boyz and pretty much have 30 ablative wounds on that warboss. Since, I am pretty sure you're allowed to take causalities from wherever you want in the unit.

And assuming that boss also is 6-7 wounds. He is pretty tough.

Deathstars still sort of exist, they just are overlapping auras on the units within the radius.

If you put 3 characters together with 3-4 units tightly wrapped around them. Then you have a huge number of troops all effected by the auras of those three characters including the characters themselves.

This completely depends on the power of said auras, and the ability for them to effect different units. I would assume that those that effect the most units are not that powerful, whereas those that effect a narrow unit type will be more powerful.

So if for instance a Dark Angles chaplain has an aura of using his LD for all space marine units within 6", Sameal has say -1 to hit against all Ravenwing units within 3", and Belial has +1 attack for all Deathwing units within 6", then overlapping those won't do much. If say Azreal gets +1 save to all Dark Angels within 6" then a combination of him and 2 of the others could be good, but if you use Deathwing now the effected units are very expensive, if you use RW it will slow you down to stay in the aura. It is also possible that some auras will only effect models while others effect units.

**oldzoggy**

Gloomfang wrote:
This basically changes nothing for Nids. We are used to overlapping bubbles, we only had one IC no one took and almost all of our characters are over 10 wounds.

I will expect retinues to be standard for almost every character though..

And this is how it should work. The rules doesn't change much for regular players while at the same time obliterating the lists of shenanigan lists.

**Ratius**

You can just imagine that 9 wound character smirking at his 10 wound cousin.

Or those daemon princes of nurgle being left out because poppa nurgle gave them one too many wounds (pure conjecture but it would be funny).

Dont forget though they mention Magnus at 10+ wounds has an inv save. I can forsee the 10+ brigade gaining some survivability by having invs whereas those down the chain might not. Interesting.

**KingGarland**

Vaktathi wrote:
Not at all a fan of untargetable characters. If anyone remembers older editions where this rule was in effect, they will remember some of the more absurd gimmickry and abuse this opened up.

The rest I'm fine with, but the untargetable characters is absolutely going to develop into an issue.

This could lead to the funny scenario were a group of Eldar are trying to kill Guilliman and on one side of the are a unit of Space marine scouts and on the opposite side in his ornate armor, massive size and flaming sword is Guilliman and because all the sout models are 1 inch closer then him they "have difficulty in picking out individuals amidst the maelstrom of battle" and don't know which is Guilliman.
They aren't untargetable, they just have to be closest.

tneva82 wrote:Wonder what keyword chimera would have. Am only doesn't cut it

Probbably Imperial.

**EnTyme**

Vaktathi wrote:Not at all a fan of untargetable characters. If anyone remembers older editions where this rule was in effect, they will remember some of the more absurd gimmickry and abuse this opened up.

The rest I'm fine with, but the untargetable characters is absolutely going to develop into an issue.

The IG write-up mentions sniper weapons being able to target characters regardless of closest model. Get ready to break out those Ratlings!