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 Marmatag wrote:

Youn wrote:
Your probably right in that they will push it up into the 11+ range. Looking though the warscrolls the Daemon Princes are 8 wounds.

Which would allow one to hide in a crowd. Assuming MONSTER doesn't automatically make it targetable.

They have already used Guilliman as an example of someone who would not be targetable, and his a monstrous creature. So my money would be that a non-flying daemon prince would not be targetable. That's a good change though, these guys are pretty easy to blow out of the water without power armor. And you can't take power armor in a grav meta.

I am starting to think that "Flying" won't matter. "Hard to Hit" probably does not exist in 8th, so if you can target a flying DP, it will die. The balance then comes from it not being able to really use its movement because it would make itself be closer and thus targetable.
It also might mean the "wings" won't be such a 'no-brainer' since DPs will likely have a good M stat naturally and wings would only extend that. It you don't want to be that close, wings become a liability (to a very small degree)

-

 jreilly89 wrote:
Heroes not being able to be sniped

Bad choice of words, look at the Imperial Guard faction focus, they literally say ratling snipers can target characters, meaning characters can literally be sniped.

Flying could mean exactly the same thing as AoS. Which is they are allowed to move over terrain and other models.

 oldzoggy wrote:

 Viridian wrote:
Everyone is a nid player now dealing with synapse like abilities. Great... sounds like, a lot of fun...

Jup,whats not to like : )

Welcome to the club. You are still food. Zoggy has it right though. Most armies would kill to actually have a commander that, you know, actually does more than just command a single unit that gets turned into little more than his personal kill and shield squad. And take it from the Nid player who actually runs very little synapse compared to the rest of his army, you can stretch a 12-18in bubble pretty dang far! Heck, IG will sing praises over the fact that they may only need 1 commissar now to watch over multiple squads of conscripts, etc. Are you telling me you honestly liked having to throw 2-3x the points value of models at a single unit just because the other guy decided to make an fairly absurd combination of abilities that made it nearly impossible to deal with?

 MacPhail wrote:

 KingGarland wrote:

tneva82 wrote:Wonder what keyword chimera would have. Am only doesn't cut it

Probbably Imperial.

I suspect they'll list them separately in each army's roster of units. The Inquisition list will have an "Inquisitorial Chimera" that can carry a fixed number of models with the "Inquisition" keyword, Adeptus Militarum will have a similarly restricted Chimera of their own, etc. I could see some characters might work the same way, like if they gave the Priest the Inquisition, Adeptus Militarum, and Adepta Sororitas keywords so he could board the transports of those armies, or maybe he just appears on each of those army rosters with a different keyword. A Priest you bought for your AM couldn't ride with an Inquisition unit bought as part of a different detachment, but could ride in an AM Chimera, etc.

You know that Terminators can ride in a Chimera? They just take up two spaces.

I remember back in 4th Ed. in the Daemonhunters book, if you shot out the top of a Chimera it counted as Open-Topped unless you had 3+ or better armour. Psycannon Marines in a Chimera, the fun. Or a cheap transport for the Terminators.

If tank shocks are still a thing, a manz missile rushing through the enemy ranks to one-shot a buff character can be fun.

 koooaei wrote:
If tank shocks are still a thing, a manz missile rushing through the enemy ranks to one-shot a buff character can be fun.

Seeing vehicles now share same stat line I'm pretty sure that's tank charging into combat.

Everyone saying it's not fluffy now with characters leading from the front and that they now have to cowardly hide behind units.

Can still have them out front and lead the charge, just makes it extra heroic.

And also they were cowardly last edition. Only reason you could put it out front because you'd look out sir the hits. Heroically shoving people infront of you anyway at the first sign of getting shot.

 HANZERtank wrote:

Can still have them out front and lead the charge, just makes it extra heroic.

There should be a heroism bonus: "If your character is the closest model to the enemy, they get +2 attacks in the next assault phase"*

*tongue in cheek, but I can't see why anyone would play a sci-fi/fantasy tabletop game and not have some mighty hero charging the enemy with their weapon held high! Realise the drama!

 corpuschain wrote:
*tongue in cheek, but I can't see why anyone would play a sci-fi/fantasy tabletop game and not have some mighty hero charging the enemy with their weapon held high! Realise the drama!

*Mighty hero yells to his squad. ADVANCE!*
*Mighty hero starts to run toward enemy*
*Enemy commander notes a foolish hero coming toward and twists a finger*
*Lascannon splats the mighty hero to death*

 HANZERtank wrote:
Everyone saying it's not fluffy now with characters leading from the front and that they now have to cowardly hide behind units.

Can still have them out front and lead the charge, just makes it extra heroic.

And also they were cowardly last edition. Only reason you could put it out front because you'd look out sir the hits. Heroically shoving people infront of you anyway at the first sign of getting shot.

They were heroic 1/6 of the time.

I don't mind necron deathmarks being good at sniping. they're supposed to be hyper specialised snipers.

I just hope all others also get a buff and approriate points costs.

Grot snipaz anyone? My dream could come true.

I would love to see my three Transuranic Arquebus actually doing something in a game other than cost enough to make another unit.

tneva82 wrote:

 corpuschain wrote:
*tongue in cheek, but I can't see why anyone would play a sci-fi/fantasy tabletop game and not have some mighty hero charging the enemy with their weapon held high! Realise the drama!

*Mighty hero yells to his squad. ADVANCE!*
*Mighty hero starts to run toward enemy*
*Enemy commander notes a foolish hero coming toward and twists a finger*
*Lascannon splats the mighty hero to death*

Lascannon misses and explodes a barrel behind him, because its a fantasy setting and the hero doesn't die to a measely mook with a big gun. He gets shot by several hundred guns and keeps going because he's the hero.


LOS was never really a "throw your buddy into the line of fire" for the likes of Space Marines, Eldar, or Tau. Its called "Look Out, Sir!" because their humble mook spotted the incoming shot, and lept in front, taking the bullet because their measley role in the infantry was inconsequential, but the great hero that was (Commander X) is a vital component. For the likes of Orks, Chaos, Ad Mech (with servitors or Skitarii for exampple), Dark Eldar, it was in fact a leader throwing the mook in front to take the bullet, because "feth the mook, I want to live." Tyranids even a stage further, purposefully sacrificing themselves to protect bigger creatures. Particularly with the second example, extremely fluffy. Can you really imagine a Dark Eldar Archon standing around on his own, asking to get shot, while there's perfectly good cannon fodder/Kabalite Warriors over there to hide behind? Or even an Honour Guard not heroic leaping into the path of the Lascannon to protect his Chapter Master? Or a Dire Avenger Exarch stepping forward to die on the enemy's blade so the Farseer can escape and lead their people another day?

And it would be cinematic if it didn't happen 10-15 times a turn.

 Deadshot wrote:
Lascannon misses and explodes a barrel behind him, because its a fantasy setting and the hero doesn't die to a measely mook with a big gun. He gets shot by several hundred guns and keeps going because he's the hero.

Have fun trusting that in 8th ed. Me? I put him behind the guys rather than front because otherwise the scenario I pointed out plays out.

As fun as it's charging up ahead that's way too easily killed. That's answer to this:

" I can't see why anyone would play a sci-fi/fantasy tabletop game and not have some mighty hero charging the enemy with their weapon held high! Realise the drama! "

Okay tongue in cheeck but still. That's why lots of people won't have him charging the enemy weapons held in high. Instead first the chaff in and then follow them.

tneva82 wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
Lascannon misses and explodes a barrel behind him, because its a fantasy setting and the hero doesn't die to a measely mook with a big gun. He gets shot by several hundred guns and keeps going because he's the hero.

Have fun trusting that in 8th ed. Me? I put him behind the guys rather than front because otherwise the scenario I pointed out plays out.

As fun as it's charging up ahead that's way too easily killed. That's answer to this:

" I can't see why anyone would play a sci-fi/fantasy tabletop game and not have some mighty hero charging the enemy with their weapon held high! Realise the drama! "

Okay tongue in cheeck but still. That's why lots of people won't have him charging the enemy weapons held in high. Instead first the chaff in and then follow them.

Completely agree with what your saying, 100% accurate, just not good. Some people do prefer a lead from the rear commander, best represented by having your character lead from the rear as with Imperial Guard or Mechanicus. Some other armies have lead from the rear commanders but many leaders are leaders also lead from the front, which is now a terrible tactic. Such commanders don't look at their warriors and say "Send in the chaff to soak up bullets" but rather say " Follow me my battle brothers, unto victory!" or "Move maggots, I'mma show you how this is done!"

Here's hoping that most normal HQs (ie things that aren't huge/monsters/etc), will come with retinues. So an IG commander with his bodyguards and advisors, the Warbosses with his gang of Nobz, the Ethereal with his elite fire warriors, etc.

 Afrodactyl wrote:
Here's hoping that most normal HQs (ie things that aren't huge/monsters/etc), will come with retinues. So an IG commander with his bodyguards and advisors, the Warbosses with his gang of Nobz, the Ethereal with his elite fire warriors, etc.

yea... retinues disappeared in 5th edition when characters could join units. I see them making a comeback...we will see.

regarding the 10+ wound IC being targetable...did the rules indicate if it becomes untargetable once it loses enough wounds to bring it to >10 ?

 zedsdead wrote:

 Afrodactyl wrote:
Here's hoping that most normal HQs (ie things that aren't huge/monsters/etc), will come with retinues. So an IG commander with his bodyguards and advisors, the Warbosses with his gang of Nobz, the Ethereal with his elite fire warriors, etc.

yea... retinues disappeared in 5th edition when characters could join units. I see them making a comeback...we will see.

regarding the 10+ wound IC being targetable...did the rules indicate if it becomes untargetable once it loses enough wounds to bring it to >10 ?

Independent Characters have been around for a very long time.

What changed with Retinues with 5th Edition was that Independent Characters that had purchased Retinues with them, didn't stop being Independent Characters because of that Retinue. Those Retinues just became a slotless unit instead of being part of the Character's unit.