So here it is, a poll to get a sense of whether people like or dislike the new Primaris Space Marines

I dislike them- I think the idea is weak, and spoils the lore of the normal marines. I would rather GW just be honest about intentions to ultimately upscale the whole range, rather than release a weak concept to try and deceive the collectors.

Also what is going on with the gunshields on the new assault marines.

Negative. I like the models I've seen but just not sure we need even bigger marines. Unless of course, GW decides to do to the Astartes with the Primaris what the Emperor did to the Thunder Warriors with the Astartes.

Then we are stuck.

I voted both because I like the models and their design (well, maybe not the flying cartoon robot Inceptors) and their actual rules, but I dislike their role in the lore and the position their rules hold within the hierarchy within the Space Marine army as a whole.

Wow... I turned positive but understand why many haven't.

I'm neutral: I love the design of the models, but I think they are too big, unless they plan on upscaling the custodians as well. (with thinner legs and helms to match the ccg art, please!!)

The lore is terrible. What are home brew chapters descended from the unknown primarchs, or loyalist traitors supposed to do fluffwise to include these new guys?

Positive or Negative, at least the narrative is moving forward.

SJ

I really don't want all my current Marines phased out, which is a possibility with the Primaris Marines. If it was confirmed they would always be like a support unit I'd be completely positive, but it is not the case.

It changes the army fluffwise too. Marines were always the outnumbered, but never outgunned type, and since I play Crimson Fists, their whole draw about a Chapter on the edge of extinction goes out the window when Rowboat says "hey, have a Chapter of new Marines". No longer are the CF threatened, as to preserve their own geneseed they'll just send the Primaris Marines instead. There's too many inconsistencies for them to really make sense in the fluff, which is why I went for positive and negative.

Did we really need another Primaris marines poll?

But Primaris marines fit in the lore. Didn't the Ravenguard Primarch do it once, but got screwed over by the Alpha Legion? Why couldn't Cawl use his notes/research to do it again? If that's not the case, it's happened once so why not a second time after 10,000 years? To me it fits the lore and they're awesome minis so I'm not quite sure what the problem is.

- They look awesome
- They fit the lore more than people give them credit for
- No more fishing through boxes and boxes of units to get enough heavy weapons for your units
- They still haven't replaced original marines who are still good in their own right
- If Death Guard, Thousand Sons, Noise Marines and Khorne Berserkers are a thing for Chaos, why can't Marines get their own equivalent?

I don't mean to try and tell people who don't like them they're wrong, this is just my opinion and I'm unsure of why people don't like them, other than them not fitting lore, which, in my mind, they do.

I don't play Primaris, I'm playing Death Guard and original Blood Angels, but I think they're awesome personally.

This is my opinion on why they made new dudes and didn't just upscale normal marines:

They don't want to invalidate people's current armies. So they had to keep all of their rules and weapon options and such in the game. But they wanted to release some new good guys who are much simpler to build and play with, as they have far less options to choose from. Current space marine boxes don't even come with every option you can put in a unit. So the Primaris Marines were born to accommodate new players and veterans alike, who want cool figures and an easy time making their army, knowing exactly what each unit does.

Just my thoughts

We can look at it as marine "upgrades"?
They were overdue for a genetic boost maybe?
All I know is the Mechanicus will have their hands full when they try to do ANYTHING with them.
Drop pods: umm, new tin-can design needed.
Terminator Armor: Lost(ish) tech... how are we getting them into one of those? (Actually compared to the very old termies, they may be to scale to the "newer" termies)
Oh! Extra HUGE Centurion armor could be great giggles.

History aside, yes, I am sure they are trying to upscale them to what the lore says they are (people have been "true scale"ing them for ages).
Wouldn't it be funny if it was decided all that are "worthy" can be made into these marines including females?
If you are going to do a re-write, why not go all the way?

It would be great to get those Black Templar knickers in a twist, they have some strange bro-mance with Sisters of Battle anyway.

 WarbossDakka wrote:
I really don't want all my current Marines phased out, which is a possibility with the Primaris Marines. If it was confirmed they would always be like a support unit I'd be completely positive, but it is not the case.

It changes the army fluffwise too. Marines were always the outnumbered, but never outgunned type, and since I play Crimson Fists, their whole draw about a Chapter on the edge of extinction goes out the window when Rowboat says "hey, have a Chapter of new Marines". No longer are the CF threatened, as to preserve their own geneseed they'll just send the Primaris Marines instead. There's too many inconsistencies for them to really make sense in the fluff, which is why I went for positive and negative.

My thoughts exactly

 jeff white wrote:
Wow... I turned positive but understand why many haven't.

Same here.

I voted yes, because so far all we have are the rules etc. we simply don't have eneugh lore to JUDGE the Lore.

I think some of them look good, but I voted Negatory as I won't be playing them. Shame they don't stick with 1 size for kitbash purposes and it just makes the rest of your army look like runts.

Models = Boring or bad.

Fluff = Bad. If it wasn't Warhammer I would put the book on a shelf and never read it again.

Other = Marines get more new models. My Eldar still have a load of Finecrap and some hideous models. Other factions need new models. Marines get updates every time a clock chimes.

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Positive or Negative, at least the narrative is moving forward.

SJ

Backwards

The narrative is moving backwards...

They are bringing back people who have died, who are apparently using historic design for troops.

I mean seriously, Rowboat designed Primaris 10,000 years ago. Fly a Plane designed 100 years ago...
If the Mechanicus had any sense at all they would have read Towcoats designs and used it as a laugh.

I remember getting into 40k a few years ago, I would visit forums like this and read the thoughts of Warhammer enthusiasts. I was always turned off by the salty old timers throwing stones at every new turn and idea GW produced. I thought I would be always open to fresh ideas, after all, GW has written quite a story. And now this. I am very unhappy with these PRIMARIS space marines. They will come out of the box and tower over my guys. I put a lot of time and effort into my guys. All Forgeworld upgraded, all magnetised, all made with tender loving care. These PRIMARIS marines will defacate all over them. New folks will come in and laugh. I can hear it already. "Wow man, why don't you run those bigger guys?" "Haha, those guys look so much more badass than those small guys!" "Look at how tiny they are! PATHETIC! WHAT LOSER WOULD RUN STUMPY LITTLE MANLETTE MARINES?! POINT AND LAUGH POINT AND LAUGH!!!" I hate PRIMARIS marines.

I like the direction gw is pushing 40k. However, I hope that nu-marines are not broken.
If this is a cash grab, I'm super against it.

Positive, the old SM models are way too small considering they are supposed to be 8ft tall death machines but are the same height as Imperial Guardsmen.

I wish they would have just replaced the current Marines outright instead of this weirdness in the lore with 2 Marine types.

A second kind of Space Marines. Makes no sense to me. Either they are the saviour of the Imperium or not.

Just a note that hasn't been discussed yet I don't think. The Actual Intercessors preform very poorly on the table, and don't fill a good role.

I haven't played with them, but I have played against them and really they didn't do much, his predator killed basically my entire army, and the primaris marines and lieutenants just sat there.

 gummyofallbears wrote:
Just a note that hasn't been discussed yet I don't think. The Actual Intercessors preform very poorly on the table, and don't fill a good role.

I haven't played with them, but I have played against them and really they didn't do much, his predator killed basically my entire army, and the primaris marines and lieutenants just sat there.

intercesssors are at the end of the day 2 wound tac marines with a slightly improved boltgun. I'd not be expecting them to be incrediable all stars. they're basic troop units.

I am going to make a poll on how many more polls we need to have on Primaris marines and people's opinions on them

Negative for the fluff, but I understand the decision from a financial standpoint. For the shareholders, it's positive. For CSM players, whom are making Cult troops (Khorne Berserkers and Noise Marines) from 90's (or early 2000s) resin kits reworked from metal moulds with odd numbers of equipment per kit, or whose character options require extensive conversion work, it's annoying as Hell giving the Space Marine players bigger models just because their sausage fingers can't handle normal-sized model.

 ChazSexington wrote:
Negative for the fluff, but I understand the decision from a financial standpoint. For the shareholders, it's positive. For CSM players, whom are making Cult troops (Khorne Berserkers and Noise Marines) from 90's (or early 2000s) resin kits reworked from metal moulds with odd numbers of equipment per kit, or whose character options require extensive conversion work, it's annoying as Hell giving the Space Marine players bigger models just because their sausage fingers can't handle normal-sized model.

honest to god question, have you Read Dark Imperium? if you haven't read it and try to keep an open mind it gives some intreasting insight on the Primaris Marines, notably that they're not test tube babies grown in jars, but where aspiraants looking to join the various chapters that got recruited for the Primaris development program over history. (thus they where human to start with. I'm glad they kept that) some of these Marines are pretty old, with a few dating back from just after the Heresy. (... I'm guessing they where mostly kept in stasis) at the same time until the Indomatus crusade they didn't have any real combat experiance.

it's been 112 years since GS3, during which the Indomatus crusade has been fought pretty much through all that time, hence the Primaris Marines have gotten one hell of a work out.

soi yeah the novel IMHO addresses a lot of the concerns people had about the Marines.

BrianDavion wrote:

 gummyofallbears wrote:
Just a note that hasn't been discussed yet I don't think. The Actual Intercessors preform very poorly on the table, and don't fill a good role.

I haven't played with them, but I have played against them and really they didn't do much, his predator killed basically my entire army, and the primaris marines and lieutenants just sat there.

intercesssors are at the end of the day 2 wound tac marines with a slightly improved boltgun. I'd not be expecting them to be incrediable all stars. they're basic troop units.

I understand that, I didn't mean that I'd expect them to be amazing, but they don't have a purpose, SM already have a basic troop unit. I apologize that my OP came off as me suggesting they needed to be amazing units or anything.

I was going to vote "Positive" but I found out GW have actually called a unit of the Space Wolves' Primaris Marines the "Wolf Spear".

There is no justice...

I wish they had replaced Space Marines with Primaris entirely. Not in the fluff, but just the rules and models. Oh, and the Primaris should have used the existing armour marks.
I really like the idea of Marines that are closer in size and rules to how they are in the fluff, but I don't like the fluff of these new Primaris Marines so far.
Still going to get them though. Coincidentally I just came up with an awesome new colour scheme that I might want to use for my homebrew chapter. The Primaris form the perfect excuse to buy some new minis and try out my new colour scheme. If it turns out I don't like it enough to replace my old one, I can still use the newly painted Primaris as the start of a seperate Primaris-only chapter. That way I won't waste my painting work regardless of whether I am going to use it for my existing chapter or not.

Quick note: every instance of "you" in my post refers to the community at large not anyone specific posting here.

BrianDavion wrote:

 ChazSexington wrote:
Negative for the fluff, but I understand the decision from a financial standpoint. For the shareholders, it's positive. For CSM players, whom are making Cult troops (Khorne Berserkers and Noise Marines) from 90's (or early 2000s) resin kits reworked from metal moulds with odd numbers of equipment per kit, or whose character options require extensive conversion work, it's annoying as Hell giving the Space Marine players bigger models just because their sausage fingers can't handle normal-sized model.

honest to god question, have you Read Dark Imperium? if you haven't read it and try to keep an open mind it gives some intreasting insight on the Primaris Marines, notably that they're not test tube babies grown in jars, but where aspiraants looking to join the various chapters that got recruited for the Primaris development program over history. (thus they where human to start with. I'm glad they kept that) some of these Marines are pretty old, with a few dating back from just after the Heresy. (... I'm guessing they where mostly kept in stasis) at the same time until the Indomatus crusade they didn't have any real combat experiance.

it's been 112 years since GS3, during which the Indomatus crusade has been fought pretty much through all that time, hence the Primaris Marines have gotten one hell of a work out.

soi yeah the novel IMHO addresses a lot of the concerns people had about the Marines.

Gene-seed tampering has never gone well in the history of IoM since the First Founding. Corax even left the Imperium because of it. You have Chapters refusing to fight alongside Chapters of the Cursed 21st Founding, which is rumoured to be due to gene-seed tampering. Look at Fabius Bile's creations to figure out where gene-seed alteration usually ends up. Technological improvement and innovation, especially on this scale, also fits poorly with the setting itself.

The manner in which it has been written is also poor - shoehorning in Cawl as the greatest geneticist ever (greater than the Emperor and Fabius Bile), whom seemingly has figured out how to get around the Canis Helix, and potentially a slew of other gene-seed issues. If Cawl had been a character present for longer than a few months, it'd be more palatable, but he's not.

Thirdly, mechanically I have no idea what role they fill. There's just no need in the game design for a 2W Space Marine, especially now we have 2W Terminators.

It's a big galaxy. I don't mind not knowing who Cawl was until tecently because we don't even know the name of a single currently sitting high lord of Terra. If they aren't important enough to know about why would Cawl be? Its only this specific (and absurd) turn of events that would ever bring out attention to him.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
*by currently sitting highlords, I mean those sitting before rowvoat came back

Backgroundwise they're terrible.

Absolutely terrible. Cawl seems to be a gigantic Mary Sue for the Imperium and it's kind of cringeworthy.

He's 10,000 years old - what? I remember reading somewhere that after 1,500 years they tend to put Tech PRiests down as they either go full terminator or bat-guano insane...and here Cawl is, 10,000 years old and fit as a fiddle.

He supposedly had the relevant knowledge from Bobby Girlyman, who conveniently woke up to put it into play - hang on a minute.

Are you telling me that a random, previously unheard of Tech-Priest and a Primarch who showed zero interest in the whole geneseed side of things are more capable of producing new super-marines without flaw than....

Say....

Fabius Bile? The guy who BEFORE the Heresy was widely regarded as second only to the Emperor in his understanding of genetics and how geneseed worked? The guy who's had ten thousand years and training from various sources including Dark Eldar Haemonculi to get things done. The guy who cloned Primarchs?

It's a giant gaping hole of Lore that GW forgot Fabius even existed for.

Bleh.

That's the first thing that occured to me to during Cawl's release. A 10,000 years old tech-priest? Really? Ugh, says the reader of 40k for 20 years now.

Obvious Mary Sue setup for Primaris marines, which could have easily has more engrossing fluff that what they got.

At least they are a good opportunity for the Alpha Legion to infiltrate them with the tech stolen from the Raven Guard, setting up a new Heresy. It'd be about time the Alpha Legion stopped twirling their moustaches, and do something worth a damn.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
That's the first thing that occured to me to during Cawl's release. A 10,000 years old tech-priest? Really? Ugh, says the reader of 40k for 20 years now.

I hate that too, it really doesn't fit the existing fluff. But my headcanon is that he's kind of Ship of Theseus. All mechanical and organic bits have been replaced many, many times. Nothing of the original Belisarius Cawl remains, except his vast knowledge, backed up in databanks and auxilary cortexes.

It seems pretty clear to me that GW are going to use this as a trojan update to space marines.

They want to keep marines as the tough elite army in the game and so they've effectively given them a rules adjustment and a model adjustment without invalidating their old lines.

But I fully expect the primaris rules to be the standard marine rules in 5 years.

This way they get to effectively have marine players buy their armies twice over. How else do you keep selling to players that already have everything.

Hellebore wrote:
It seems pretty clear to me that GW are going to use this as a trojan update to space marines.

They want to keep marines as the tough elite army in the game and so they've effectively given them a rules adjustment and a model adjustment without invalidating their old lines.

But I fully expect the primaris rules to be the standard marine rules in 5 years.

This way they get to effectively have marine players buy their armies twice over. How else do you keep selling to players that already have everything.

Agreed. Everything is getting scaled up, not just space marines. Look at the nurgle cultists AKA pox walkers. Online they appear to be as tall as, if not taller, than today's standard marines. It honestly makes me mad.

Today a marine and a PRIMARIS have different point values. Next update they will close the point gap between them, making PRIMARIS marines the only sane choice. After that, no more standard marines, just antiquated looking models

PS: I wonder how they'll write a CSM version of PRIMARIS marines being developed at the exact same time. If chaos has no access to them, I will change my tune and accept them as a truly innocent seperate troop choice. But you couldn't model these guys as CSM today because they have aquilas on their chests.

This is a very tight poll with the community clearly very split

I saw the primaris marines in the flesh so to speak.

The Captain is terrible. He has the pot belly of a middle aged airsoft player

Too stupid from the fluff standpoint.
"The story is moving forward" is not an argument, both WHFB and 40k new fluff is quite bad.

Nonetheless, I am intrigued by the new edition they herald.

Weird poll question... I think it's a Positive release, but I still personally hate the Primarus marines.

Seeing that the new DG are smaller than the Primaris by a significant amount, I'm not sure was GW's game with the Primaris is. Are they just going to outclass Chaos Space Marines from now on in terms of size/strength? Are Chaos going to get upgraded in a future release (making this new release redundant)? Are Chaos just going to get traitor Primaris at some point and we'll just have two scales of Space Marines running around from now on?

Like others have said, I'm pretty torn about this release, and it leaves a lot of uncertainty about investing in either of these ranges for the time being.

 Accolade wrote:
Seeing that the new DG are smaller than the Primaris by a significant amount, I'm not sure was GW's game with the Primaris is. Are they just going to outclass Chaos Space Marines from now on in terms of size/strength? Are Chaos going to get upgraded in a future release (making this new release redundant)? Are Chaos just going to get traitor Primaris at some point and we'll just have two scales of Space Marines running around from now on?

Like others have said, I'm pretty torn about this release, and it leaves a lot of uncertainty about investing in either of these ranges for the time being.

I think the Primaris quite simply are going to be a more elite choice for Space Marine players, similarly to how Guard players got the Militarum Tempestus.

The Primaris are not going to replace the 'ordinary' Marines. Ordinary Marines are GW's most profitable product line by far. It is way too risky for GW to mess with that, they would be gambling with their entire existance as a company. They are not going to do that.

Model range perspective :

Mostly Negative - The only range that did not need a huge boost of models was Marines - now even more resources will be allocated to slightly large Marines as well as all the other Marine ranges. Those Factions still without basic palstic models - less chance of new stuff. Especially since they will undoubatedly have to do special snowflake models for the Special snowflake chapters.

Background:: Meh - its ok, could be worse but so many more interesting things in 40k to do.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Accolade wrote:
Seeing that the new DG are smaller than the Primaris by a significant amount, I'm not sure was GW's game with the Primaris is. Are they just going to outclass Chaos Space Marines from now on in terms of size/strength? Are Chaos going to get upgraded in a future release (making this new release redundant)? Are Chaos just going to get traitor Primaris at some point and we'll just have two scales of Space Marines running around from now on?

Like others have said, I'm pretty torn about this release, and it leaves a lot of uncertainty about investing in either of these ranges for the time being.

I think the Primaris quite simply are going to be a more elite choice for Space Marine players, similarly to how Guard players got the Militarum Tempestus.

The Primaris are not going to replace the 'ordinary' Marines. Ordinary Marines are GW's most profitable product line by far. It is way too risky for GW to mess with that, they would be gambling with their entire existance as a company. They are not going to do that.

Scions are even a troops choice in Index Imperium 2.

is it just moe or are the people whom are negitive about Primaris Marines mostly non Marine players? tempted to start a poll with more options

BrianDavion wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Accolade wrote:
Seeing that the new DG are smaller than the Primaris by a significant amount, I'm not sure was GW's game with the Primaris is. Are they just going to outclass Chaos Space Marines from now on in terms of size/strength? Are Chaos going to get upgraded in a future release (making this new release redundant)? Are Chaos just going to get traitor Primaris at some point and we'll just have two scales of Space Marines running around from now on?

Like others have said, I'm pretty torn about this release, and it leaves a lot of uncertainty about investing in either of these ranges for the time being.

I think the Primaris quite simply are going to be a more elite choice for Space Marine players, similarly to how Guard players got the Militarum Tempestus.

The Primaris are not going to replace the 'ordinary' Marines. Ordinary Marines are GW's most profitable product line by far. It is way too risky for GW to mess with that, they would be gambling with their entire existance as a company. They are not going to do that.

is it just moe or are the people whom are negitive about Primaris Marines mostly non Marine players? tempted to start a poll with more options

Two things are not mutually exclusive

I have Space Wolves (without Wolfy Wolf Wolves), Dark Angels and Ultramarine armies as well Sisters, Guard, and all Xenos.

 Accolade wrote:
Seeing that the new DG are smaller than the Primaris by a significant amount, I'm not sure was GW's game with the Primaris is. Are they just going to outclass Chaos Space Marines from now on in terms of size/strength? Are Chaos going to get upgraded in a future release (making this new release redundant)? Are Chaos just going to get traitor Primaris at some point and we'll just have two scales of Space Marines running around from now on?

Like others have said, I'm pretty torn about this release, and it leaves a lot of uncertainty about investing in either of these ranges for the time being.

especially with Primogenitor coming out as a novel, if chaos primaris analogues are to be a thing, I'd hope The Fabulous Bill should be responsible.


And Cawl is irksome. A new character, fine - and he can be retroactively added to both 40k and heresy novels, but I agree a 10,000 year old tech priest is a background no-no. More importantly, he is just too good at everything - designing armour, fine, but if he's a magos artificer designing super-armour (gullimans plate and Mk10), he's not (or shouldn't) simultaneously be a ballistcae (his name is on the bolt rifle pattern) and a biologis on a par with fabius bile. I really, really wish theyd given a nod to the cursed founding, afriel strain or raptor project and implied soneone else did the biology for him.

Models are great, rules suck and their fluff is awful.

Oh...and Cawl also figure out about the Pylons, which was apparently not something anyone else knew (aside from inquisitors Qixos and Eisenhorn and basically any other inquisitor with dealings with cadia prior to the gathering storm series.

The annoying thing is, he could have found Gullimans self-assembly armour, just not built it himself. He's introduced as an explorator archmagos - a sort of tech priest indiana jones - so the iron revenant could have had all sorts of stuff on it prior to abbadon blowing it up.

Equally, the gene tech for the primaris could have been commisioned by gulliman, in secret....and never deployed due to his "death" - it didn't need to be Cawl he commisioned it from. In fact (especially the "new armour design" bit) it makes no sense it not being Zagreus Kane he asked to do it. But if you woke Gulliman Up and he then said "by the way there should be some secret labs left [here]" that would make more sense to me.

 SeraphimXIX wrote:
Models are great, rules suck and their fluff is awful.

What do you like about the models?

The captain has a beer belly and the interceptors look they are from the cast of Rollerball.


Also btw the Deathguard are also upscaled. Side by side with the Primaris they are not much smaller.

If they were just a new updated range for existing marines, they would be fine.

The new background is garbage however and just results in all sorts of stupid absurdities, particularly when coupled with the Harry Potter-esque Hocus Pocus-ey Faux-latin naming conventions GW seems increasingly intent on pushing with evey Imperial release.

Leaked fluff has Primaris as Astartes 2.0 initiated during the Heresy to bolster the loyalist forces, but the Heresy ended before the Primaris could be fielded. After their numbers were full enough, they participated in the Indominus Crusade and were greatly depleted in numbers. At the time of Roboute's "resurrection", the Primaris have been in active service and in circulation for millennia. Also, there is a discrepancy in the Imperial calendar, which has a thousand year gap in what day it actually is throughout the Imperium. Guilliman didn't just wake up yesterday, it was 112 years earlier than the current narrative.

So ... yeah.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Leaked fluff has Primaris as Astartes 2.0 initiated during the Heresy to bolster the loyalist forces, but the Heresy ended before the Primaris could be fielded. After their numbers were full enough, they participated in the Indominus Crusade and were greatly depleted in numbers. At the time of Roboute's "resurrection", the Primaris have been in active service and in circulation for millennia. Also, there is a discrepancy in the Imperial calendar, which has a thousand year gap in what day it actually is throughout the Imperium. Guilliman didn't just wake up yesterday, it was 112 years earlier than the current narrative.

So ... yeah.

SJ

Incorrect. Primaris Marines where developed in the immediate aftermath of the Heresy, per Gulliman's orders. they where not DEPLOYED however, and mostly kept in stasis unless being brought out for training. (presumably they wheren't deployed earlier because Gulliman's approval was needed) the disreprecny in the calender I suspect is going to mostly be used to explain some oddities in the dates (things like "well the Ultramarines second company where supoidvly at Cadia, Damnos and here all in M.41 999)

Model wise they're the best looking space marines I've ever seen. They've tempted me back into the game even after what AoS did to WFB. I even picked up a box of Tempestus Scions at the Yodabashi the other day.

Damn you GW and your plastic crack!

Very negative.
Marines are the LAST faction that needs more stuff.

Some factions still lack plastics for a decent chunk of their range (or even their entire range) there is no point model-wise.

Some factions didn't get anything new in forever now, there is no point innovation-wise.

Most factions just don't have nearly as many options as marines do. and then marines gets even more.

And the primaris are not even intresting! they are marines with two wounds and better guns, but they are highly standardized. there is nothing they do that's all that special or unique, except the inceptors who outright copy what is a crisis suit.


Primaris add nothing new to the game, and the little they add to the marines is directly by stepping on xeno's territory.
They are further marinazing a game that is already too marine dominant.
I can't think on a single faction not MORE needing of new releases than the marines.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Very negative.
Marines are the LAST faction that needs more stuff.

Some factions still lack plastics for a decent chunk of their range (or even their entire range) there is no point model-wise.

Some factions didn't get anything new in forever now, there is no point innovation-wise.

Most factions just don't have nearly as many options as marines do. and then marines gets even more.

And the primaris are not even intresting! they are marines with two wounds and better guns, but they are highly standardized. there is nothing they do that's all that special or unique, except the inceptors who outright copy what is a crisis suit.


Primaris add nothing new to the game, and the little they add to the marines is directly by stepping on xeno's territory.
They are further marinazing a game that is already too marine dominant.
I can't think on a single faction not MORE needing of new releases than the marines.

This is so true. Diversity of armies being collected is a key part of the enjoyment of this game to me.

There are already enough games of power armour vs power armour, and I suspect these Adeptus Restartes will just make that worse

The grimdark thing to do would be to have Primaris Marines be infected or corrupted somehow, or perhaps be some kind of secret army for Cawl that he's going to use for his own nefarious purposes.

You know some of them are going to fall in any case and you'll get Primarus Chaos Marines.

Awful fluff, awful motivations, ok but stupidly huge and boring minis.

 Greenizbest wrote:
Positive, the old SM models are way too small considering they are supposed to be 8ft tall death machines but are the same height as Imperial Guardsmen.

I wish they would have just replaced the current Marines outright instead of this weirdness in the lore with 2 Marine types.

Why not just replace the guardsmen with smaller ones? They need update anyway, and less people would be affected. New armour and better proportioned marines could have been the same scale as existing ones, just it wouldn't be such a grand cash grab GW loves.

It's a miniatures game, not action man. Everything got smaller now because of moronis marines.

Plumbumbarum wrote:
Awful fluff, awful motivations, ok but stupidly huge and boring minis.

 Greenizbest wrote:
Positive, the old SM models are way too small considering they are supposed to be 8ft tall death machines but are the same height as Imperial Guardsmen.

I wish they would have just replaced the current Marines outright instead of this weirdness in the lore with 2 Marine types.

Why not just replace the guardsmen with smaller ones? They need update anyway, and less people would be affected. New armour and better proportioned marines could have been the same scale as existing ones, just it wouldn't be such a grand cash grab GW loves.

It's a miniatures game, not action man. Everything got smaller now because of moronis marines.

Because people are automatically thinking "MAKE MARINES BIGGA!" and completely neglect that humans (and tau infantry) are far too big in comparison to anything else in the game, including their own vehicles,battlesuits, etc

Could be worse - could be Bolt Action - the vehicles took tiny when next to the official figures.

Negative.

Uber-Marines steal the Marine´s limelight. In a few years all marine players are expected to field Uber-Marines in GW stores. Old school marines will be frowned upon. Seriously, GW has an unhealthy size fetish. Do they have to compensate something?

 BoomWolf wrote:

Plumbumbarum wrote:
Awful fluff, awful motivations, ok but stupidly huge and boring minis.

 Greenizbest wrote:
Positive, the old SM models are way too small considering they are supposed to be 8ft tall death machines but are the same height as Imperial Guardsmen.

I wish they would have just replaced the current Marines outright instead of this weirdness in the lore with 2 Marine types.

Why not just replace the guardsmen with smaller ones? They need update anyway, and less people would be affected. New armour and better proportioned marines could have been the same scale as existing ones, just it wouldn't be such a grand cash grab GW loves.

It's a miniatures game, not action man. Everything got smaller now because of moronis marines.

Because people are automatically thinking "MAKE MARINES BIGGA!" and completely neglect that humans (and tau infantry) are far too big in comparison to anything else in the game, including their own vehicles,battlesuits, etc

Agreed

I'd have preferred (if they just wanted bigga muhreens) just downsizing the guardsmen, and giving them non-terrifying proportions.

Other than that, this smells of that ebil AoS stank, this is just Sigmarines in schpess.

...If I put a flamer on an Ultramarine Guillimarine, it is now a Supermarine Spitfire?

(Warning: Horrific)

A lot of the complaints about mary Cawl seem unjustified given how sinister he's supposed to be from the book. I haven't read it because money, but from the synopsis here on dakka, he seems about ready to pull a dark mechanicus number 2 electric boogaloo, and screw everything over in his lust for power. It's also insinuated that he's almost an AI, so maybe it'll be Iron Men 1.2 electric boogaloo. Plus members of the inquisition are obviously trying to end Guilliman. As regards the main stars of this thread, there are primaris from all 20, yes 20, gene-seed stocks, so I can foresee a lot of fun with that.

Am i the only one that thinks the Primaris Captain has the gusset of a middle aged airsoft player?

Mordian2016 wrote:
Am i the only one that thinks the Primaris Captain has the gusset of a middle aged airsoft player?

I can't say I'm a fan of his gut, but otherwise it's a nice model. The ones I really don't like are the Inceptors.

The fluff I'm leaning towards positive with what I've read in Dark Imperium. There's some potentially interesting tension developing between old school marines and the Primaris that's not outright hostility, but certainly suspicion

I love the models and I plan to incorporate regular and Primaris into my army. I wasn't too hot on the Inceptors at first, but they're kind of growing on me. The only one I'm not sure I like is the leaked repulsor, but I might change my mind when I see one up close.

Fluffwise, I have no strong opinion one way or the other. Is it slightly inconsistent if you come up with some contrived lore example it couldn't be done, that you could pull out of your behind if you digged hard enough? Yeah, but then so is virtually everything in 40k. Dark Imperium is a solid addition to the universe as a book and I was quite chuffed with it.

Rules wise, models wise, what GW have done is give people true-scale size models with true-scale rules that they have the option, but not the mandatory obligation to use. Anyone who has ever watched Tactical Marines die like nothing and lose a good demi-company's worth of Marine models over the course of a game knows the rules didn't really do the theme of the marines justice. Whenever I used to play Space Marine mechanised, most of the time I outnumbered the enemy on infantry, not the other way around. Though I'm not the biggest fan of gravis armour/Inceptors I think the Intercessor/Hellblaster marines look fantastic and I'm keen to get mine finished.

I'm neither positive or negative about them. I'm mostly indifferent (they're pretty shoddy units that do things worse than existing SM units) or confused (not sure why they exist or what they're for).

If they actually work as a sales tactic, I'm going to have to reassess how sales work. This is a lateral step that neither creates a need nor fills it. Expansion for the sake of expansion,
both in the one range that is already immensely bloated and in the model size.

Mixed feelings from me, too. I like the new models, but I dont like the fact that the Space Marines have been moved over to the side. Having the GK and DW was ok, because they operated alone, but the new Primaris marines seem kinda weird to me.
The only way to make them make sense is either to say all Primaris marines are just regular marines with new armour and organs, or have them be based on the Primarchs geneseed that Carax found.

They're pretty models, but scale-creep makes baby Khaine cry.

Personally I have to go positive. When I first heard of the Primaris I hated the thought. Space Marines were suppose to be the pinnacle of human warfare. Then I realized narratively that makes brilliant sense. For my jaded Chaos Space Marines, the primaris are a grave insult. I love to hate them. I think the mixed reactions are a great representation of the fluff. Some people like them, some take them because they are tactically expedient, and some refuse them because they spit on tradition. I'll hate them because they are unworthy heirs to the marines that walked with the emperor but I like that they get these reactions.

I will caveat that other lines need a lift too. I'm sure all cult marines will get updates but the eldar, ork, and Imperial Guard could use new infantry models.

People need to relax on Cawl. I think it's evident that both the eldar and Necrons have heavily influenced him. It took Ynnead to bring Guilliman back and Lord Pokeball to explain the pylons to him. Cawl openly admits to having memory gaps especially on the armor. Both of those factions need the humans to be near shields against chaos for now. Personally I think Cawl is there unwitting puppet and in the besieged imperium no one looks too closely at the guy bringing good news. Could anyone really verify he was 10,000 years old? For that matter he could have spent large chunks in the warp to gain that age.

There are so many unit choices that there has never been a model of, ever. And yet here's space marine captain number 4356! Everyone is just burnt out at this point. I'll be dead before they make a warboss in mega armor model. I'm sure we'll get another 4-6 iterations of space marine before plastic aspect warriors come out. In fact, they'll probably just phase out aspect warriors for new super eldar.

They lack the gothic appeal of space marines. They look too sleek and 'tacticool' for my taste. They should be covered in bones and eagles and parchment. I don't want Starcraft.

And they say this edition is all about chaos vs imperium? Chaos haven't created another transport since the rhino in 10,000 years? Seriously we saw all the new Primaris gak coming out but what are chaos getting? Primarch and terminators (what thousand sons got) and nothing that actually helps chaos gameplay wise. You can use primaris with every chapter. You can't with death guard. What are chaos getting in place of the repulsor tank?

edit: to me its not about the lore as much as it is feeding the rich kids that live in the gated community instead of the poor people begging for anything for the last 5 years. Their priorities are all screwed up if you ask me. Space Marines are already insanely popular, 40k isn't dying, they didn't need to reinvent the wheel.

Nu-Marines remind me of Thunder Warriors which in turn reminds of the WWC so I really like them.

Lets see...

Models look nice - check
Story is being advanced - check
Models usefull for conversions and looting (as CSM) - check
Fluff kinda stupid - check

So, that's like 75% good, which is exordinary by GW standards.

 Kosake wrote:
Lets see...

Models look nice - check
Story is being advanced - check
Models usefull for conversions and looting (as CSM) - check
Fluff kinda stupid - check

So, that's like 75% good, which is exordinary by GW standards.

I'd have been satisfied with a 25-50% goodness rating, which is higher than the 0-5% travesty that was all of 6e and 7e.

 Don Savik wrote:

They lack the gothic appeal of space marines. They look too sleek and 'tacticool' for my taste. They should be covered in bones and eagles and parchment. I don't want Starcraft.

Hmm. I'd actually love to see all the junk go.

Their priorities are all screwed up if you ask me. Space Marines are already insanely popular, 40k isn't dying, they didn't need to reinvent the wheel.

This I'll agree with though. They aren't necessary and don't add anything.

Would have much rather seen the eldar lines take the last step away from finecast

I am calling it now. 9th edition GW will discontinue all the old marine lines and rules, only Primaris Marines. They made the fluff allow for "upgrades" so all the special characters can remain.

In any case, if I ever do get any I'm just going to counts-as them as Grey Hunters for Truescale Marines.

Didn't care about Primaris at these last few months but those Rievers (or whatever) actually kick ass. Scouts mixed with Night Lord/Eversor assassin Terror marines?

Sold.

Like the models. As for the lore, it is kind of lame, but they really were in a position where no matter how they did it they were going to get massive hate from some percentage. If they didn't try to shoehorn a lore reason in people would have hated that there was no lore reason.

GW has a customer base that is quite mature i.e. there are a lot of space marine collections out there.However this does not mean that the customer base is saturated.

I have a decent space marine collection. However I really enjoy the buying, building and painting of kits. I would like GW to entice me to spend more money by original releases,or updates for very ancient kits.

The whole Primaris release feels lazy to me. Its half-hearted creativity coupled with half-hearted squatting of existing collections.

Why not create a new xenos race? Dam I'd much rather have the fun of buying that, than slightly bigger nu-marines which will over the next few years replace my slightly smaller old-marines.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Didn't care about Primaris at these last few months but those Rievers (or whatever) actually kick ass. Scouts mixed with Night Lord/Eversor assassin Terror marines?

Sold.

I think you're adding too much to them. They're a bolt pistol/ CCW unit (maybe power weapons) consisting of 3 guys. They'll probably be able to come on the board 9" away from enemies and... pew pew with pistols and probably fail to charge. Like most primaris stuff, they'll lack utility of basic marine units... in this case, assault marines (no jump packs) or maybe vanguard vets.

The fluff is they're even more gigantic giant-sized guys who somehow do stealth ops in primary colors because... magic?

'The sad thing is, because EZ build, there probably won't be a helmet for the sergeant, so instead he gets to hold the idiot ball.



@Mordian. yeah. Something new or filling in the unfinished or finecasted lines would have been a much better way to go. I'm cringing in anticipation of a year of nothing but nu-marines and plague stuff the same way AoS release prompted a year of nothing but sigmarines and blood-blooding blood guys.

fluff was hamfisted, but overall positive. gives more variety to playing marines even if it is just elite space marine space marines.

looing forward to the new kits and have built/ am getting th epaitn jobs polished off on 4 dark imperium sets worth

I'm thinking I will enjoy letting my Avatar of Khaine stab some Xtra Speshul Snowflakes. The more people move to high-cost-per-model units, the more my Avatar will have field days.

 G00fySmiley wrote:
fluff was hamfisted, but overall positive. gives more variety to playing marines even if it is just elite space marine space marines.

looing forward to the new kits and have built/ am getting th epaitn jobs polished off on 4 dark imperium sets worth

Fluffs pretty new, give GW a year to begin fleshing it out, and I think we might see some good stuff. I mean take standard space Marines, pair it down to a single paragraph of text, and they can also seem well lazy and lame.

are reivers any more absurd as stealth troops then space marine scouts? ... or raven guard anything for that matter?

I like the models. I just wish they rolled them out as Mark iX armor (or Mark X if you really needed to skip a version) and left it at that. I don't see any need to have had a secret, 10,000 year old project to produce new Marines that has never seen the light of day during any previous cataclysm.

If you'd rolled it out as a new armor mark demanded by Guilliman from the forges of Mars, and some new 'revisions' to the Codex penned by the author himself, I would have been totally happy with it. My problems are all with the jarring disruption to the fluff.

I would be even more upset, but I play orks, so what the hell do I care? Different beakies to krump.

BrianDavion wrote:

 G00fySmiley wrote:
fluff was hamfisted, but overall positive. gives more variety to playing marines even if it is just elite space marine space marines.

looing forward to the new kits and have built/ am getting th epaitn jobs polished off on 4 dark imperium sets worth

Fluffs pretty new, give GW a year to begin fleshing it out, and I think we might see some good stuff. I mean take standard space Marines, pair it down to a single paragraph of text, and they can also seem well lazy and lame.

are reivers any more absurd as stealth troops then space marine scouts? ... or raven guard anything for that matter?

Or Orky Purple?

Or hows about the fact that sometimes in 40k you can hide Baneblades behind lamp posts?

Implausibility will never stop GW!

Yuk its getting worse with these 'Aggressors'

I really hate Primaris

Mordian2016 wrote:
Yuk its getting worse with these 'Aggressors'

I really hate Primaris

It does not help that GW keeps trying to get away from the Grimdark Gothic aspect that 40k used to have.

EDIT: Had a look at the box art. Actually gagged at how awful they look.



EDIT 2: It's Centurimarines all over again.

Primaris inside your Primaris, anyone?

Aggressors look a bit weird, but nowhere near as horrible as the Centurions. The main problem is the disproportionately huge power fists. I already ordered a bunch of Tartaros power fists to fix that...

The Aggressors look kinda cute, actually.

 EmberlordofFire8 wrote:
The Aggressors look kinda cute, actually.

Another reason I don't like them. There is a time and a place for cute, and it's not "The 41st Milennium" or "The Battlefield of"

I like the aggressors, they are like less-fat terminators.

 EmberlordofFire8 wrote:
The Aggressors look kinda cute, actually.

They just want to hug you!

Aggressors look awesome, I think the Grimdark issue some have is because they are painted in Ultramarine blue which is super squeaky clean looking.

I like the aggressors, they look a lot like walking tanks to me, which is something I like.

So now that oblits don't have power fists, we'll give power fists to a marine oblitalike?

 BoomWolf wrote:
So now that oblits don't have power fists, we'll give power fists to a marine oblitalike?

How are they like oblits? beyond being a space marine unit with heav y weapons and armor?

BrianDavion wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
So now that oblits don't have power fists, we'll give power fists to a marine oblitalike?

How are they like oblits? beyond being a space marine unit with heav y weapons and armor?

Yeah, exactly like Obliterators. Except consistent and thus better. Like any other analogy between C:SM and CSM.

The style, yeah I just really really dislike everything about "primaris"

 Selym wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
So now that oblits don't have power fists, we'll give power fists to a marine oblitalike?

How are they like oblits? beyond being a space marine unit with heav y weapons and armor?

Yeah, exactly like Obliterators. Except consistent and thus better. Like any other analogy between C:SM and CSM.

Exactly like oblits, except you know not having a 2+ armor save, or an invul save, and having a COMPLETELY differant weapons load out, about the only thing I see in common is they come in packs of 3

I love the Aggressors. The fists only look big because they have a gun built into them so from some angles they do look oversized. Overall, I like all of the Primaris kits we've seen. I really need to pick up one of the Libbies at some point as they really look badass. The Reivers kit looks amazing as well although I'm not entirely sold on the stripped-down armor.

Aggressors... so close but man that seems to miss the mark.

Now what is up with the loin cloth clacker??
Having a case with bones on display there will only set them up for ridicule.
Almost as bad as the loin-plate the Centurions have.
BTW, take a good look, remove that one item and they look better:

Notice also the missile launchers are pretty much the same just put on some pivot above the head?
Looks a little gimped.
Honestly, couldn't we have slapped something maybe like this?

Maybe with only one row of missiles so it would be this flat weapon, or did we want to accentuate height?

Is it just me or does it look like they are trying to make a replacement for each "normal" marine unit?

Are the shoulder-pads still the "normal" scale?
They may have been better off going to the terminator sized ones.

Anyway, it could have been much better in my opinion.

Well they are better than Centurions - but not a great deal better....

 More Dakka wrote:
Did we really need another Primaris marines poll?

Start a Poll to see if we do...

Aggressors look like old old sloping shoulders terminators.
Hate them.
Worse than centurions.

There's a bunch of stuff in this new line that I'm sure I'll be sculpting my own parts for. But that said, a lot of these just need one or two things changed about them to make them look great.

Even the repulsor should look fine if someone made an alternative to the boring skids on the bottom.

Same thing for the aggressors, I'll probably change how the missiles are carried and that could fix a bunch of what's wrong with them. I mean I already like the Gravis armor, just bolt stuff on that armor in a different way.

I like the models themselves but they chould have been scaled to regular sized marines. I would have been ALOT more accepting of the marine chapters getting new bolter and armour marks.
Don't like were games workshop has gone with this and have a terrible TERRIBLE feeling of forbidding that we will all see our current armies (models) phased out for all new stuff.
Nope can't like it.