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[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/08 20:43:39


Post by: MattW


PLASTIC SKELETON PICS HAVE BEEN POSTED


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/08 22:49:31


Post by: Theophony


Surprised theirs no gnoll army if attached to frostgrave.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/08 23:02:27


Post by: Galas


Those are some very nicely looking celtic-style dwarves. Some info about the prices?


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/08 23:55:22


Post by: lord_blackfang


I don't see myself switching from KoW... but I'm always happy to throw money at good plastic miniature lines.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/09 00:13:40


Post by: kestral


I like it. Not enough to buy, try to find players to play it, etc. But the world is a better place with those classy, restrained dwarves in it. Goblins look cool too.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/09 00:28:08


Post by: adamsouza


If the rulebook is it's usual, less than $20, price, I'll probably buy it on Amazon for $13-15, and never use it.

The miniatures on the other hand, could be dead sexy if they are $30-$40 a box.



[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/09 00:30:44


Post by: PourSpelur


Keep it under $40 a box and I'll probably get at least a couple.
Dwarves look solid, goblins are a bit off.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/09 00:44:24


Post by: ecurtz


They'll probably be the same price as the Frostgrave plastics which are $29 US for 20 models/4 sprues.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/09 01:18:52


Post by: Auro


Really excited about this game and the minis. Definitely love the classic tolkien vibe the goblins have and the dwarves look amazing. Don't really like kings of war or mantics mini line in general so this is right up my alley.



[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/09 01:47:48


Post by: MattW


PourSpelur wrote:
Keep it under $40 a box and I'll probably get at least a couple.
Dwarves look solid, goblins are a bit off.


The goblins will probably look better at their proper scale. Lots of people hated the knoll 3-ups, but were happy enough with the final product.

I'm of a similar mind to you about them both, but I'm cautiously optimistic about the gobs.



[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/09 01:49:17


Post by: PourSpelur


ecurtz wrote:
They'll probably be the same price as the Frostgrave plastics which are $29 US for 20 models/4 sprues.

Boxes say 30, 28mm minis. If they put more bodies and less options per sprue I'd love to see the price stay the same. $29 for 4 sprues is a good deal. Huge fan of the plastic they're putting out for Frostgrave. Doing a massed battle version with less options and more bodies for the same price would be fantastic.
(No pun intended)


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/09 02:06:17


Post by: Voss


MattW wrote:
PourSpelur wrote:
Keep it under $40 a box and I'll probably get at least a couple.
Dwarves look solid, goblins are a bit off.


The goblins will probably look better at their proper scale. Lots of people hated the knoll 3-ups, but were happy enough with the final product.

I'm of a similar mind to you about them both, but I'm cautiously optimistic about the gobs.


Eh. I have a box of the gnolls. They're definitely a bit off (mostly because of the way the heads attach to the bodies). Personally I think the gobbos here look a fair bit better than the gnolls.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/09 02:50:05


Post by: Elbows


The gnolls were almost a success...but their heads are terrible - bad connection and piss poor sculpting (shame since the other Frostgrave plastics are pretty excellent).

I'll be getting some Goblins for dungeon crawling no question - hope to see a quality box of Orcs, etc. in the future. This is a great idea and well times. A lot of classical fantasy players were left on their butts when Age of Sigmar went to mechano-flying dwarves with gatling guns etc.

There isn't a quality (read: not Mantic) line of plastic fantasy infantry around that I can think of. Shieldwolf does some nice random stuff, but on the whole, a classical low fantasy plastic line could do them really well.

We're seeing GW slowly phase out the old proper Warhammer Fantasy kits so it's a good time.

PS: Regarding the rules...I'll skip it unless people rave about it. I thought Frostgrave was supremely mediocre (and can't really understand the amazing success it had) so if this is the same author I'll carefully avoid it till I see some real good reviews.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/09 03:06:02


Post by: Zethnar


It was popular because it did a cheap, Mordheimy skirmish that let you use whatever minis you happened to have lying around.

The rules didn't have to be fantastic (in fact they weren't, a lot of the XP mechanics left a lot to be desired) but it was simple and fun enough to be worth the price of entry.

As for Oathmark, I'm loving both the Dwarf and the Goblin minis. I'm not sure about the combined factions stuff though. It would probably bother me less if it was monster races / humanoid races that can combine forces (order / chaos, light / dark, however you want to put it).


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/09 03:42:27


Post by: MattW


 Zethnar wrote:
It was popular because it did a cheap, Mordheimy skirmish that let you use whatever minis you happened to have lying around.

The rules didn't have to be fantastic (in fact they weren't, a lot of the XP mechanics left a lot to be desired) but it was simple and fun enough to be worth the price of entry.

As for Oathmark, I'm loving both the Dwarf and the Goblin minis. I'm not sure about the combined factions stuff though. It would probably bother me less if it was monster races / humanoid races that can combine forces (order / chaos, light / dark, however you want to put it).


Hard agree on the combined factions. Though I suspect that many will be getting these for KoW or whatever else they play, and given that the minis seem to be coming out well before the rules, I'm pretty sure that North Star are hoping for this.

I'm most excited about the possibility of nice elves. I reckon the last decent (and affordable) sculpt of a basic elf spearman was the one from the 4th ed WHFB box. Mantic elves are... an acquired taste, and GW don't really produce affordable basic Elven infantry that could be used as 'goodies'(Lothern Sea Guard don't really count as affordable, IMO- but that might just be an Australian thing).




[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/09 04:18:42


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


Those dwarfs don't look any better to me than the EM4 plastics. I'll wait and see what the elves and humans look like, but the prices might be the real dealbreaker.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/09 08:44:17


Post by: Mymearan


 Zethnar wrote:
It was popular because it did a cheap, Mordheimy skirmish that let you use whatever minis you happened to have lying around.

The rules didn't have to be fantastic (in fact they weren't, a lot of the XP mechanics left a lot to be desired) but it was simple and fun enough to be worth the price of entry.

As for Oathmark, I'm loving both the Dwarf and the Goblin minis. I'm not sure about the combined factions stuff though. It would probably bother me less if it was monster races / humanoid races that can combine forces (order / chaos, light / dark, however you want to put it).


Song of Blade and Heroes already did that though, and did (does) it very well... I wonder if it's the theme that got people in the case of Frostgrave?


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/09 10:02:11


Post by: Huginn


Frostgrave was published, at an affordable price, with nice colour pictures. Many other systems remain in electronic format, very cheap, some even free. Players still like a well produced, low cost, physical product, despite the many apparent advantages of the pdf download. Frostgrave also supported the book with many, many expansions - do not underestimate the allure of the collection. It also did a lot of the legwork for the gamer. There are players who like the sandbox, toolbox approach of many a ruleset, but it does involve some work to generate scenarios, profiles and the like. If somebody has done it all for you, then why not?

Frostgrave never appealed to me - the use of a d12 (or was it d20) just made it sound very random to me, though of course these dice can be used in a good way (like in Antares). I will wait for reviews on the new set. I wonder if there's much of an appetite for another mass system? The new figures though might be useful, depending on the quality/scale those goblins might be added to my collection.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/09 13:44:00


Post by: Ian Sturrock


Frostgrave is good IMO. I agree it's not perfect (what game is...?) but I've found myself playing more games of it than anything else since it came out, because it's quick to set up, quick to play, and always exciting and tactical.

It's even better with the Ulterior Motives cards.

That said, I doubt this would be another project from Joe. I get the impression he's busy with FG and spinoff projects for the foreseeable future.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/09 14:33:58


Post by: SnotlingPimpWagon


Dwarves are cute! much-much better than Mantic ones, IMHO!
Goblins look horrible, not in a good way, but like very dated sculpts with a not good design


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/09 14:41:04


Post by: Osbad


The models look a bit static and awkward for me. Modern plastic models tend to be a bit more adventurous than this, so colour me disappointed. If these had been metals, then I may well have excused it, but not for plastics. Of course, the price may make them a no-brainer, but we'll see.

I've got a box each of the plastic North Star Frostgrave Cultists, Barbarians and Gnolls all still unassembled. I have painted up a few of the metal models from Frostgrave, but the extra step of assembly tends to put me off the plastics unless I have a specific project I am working towards that *needs* the models. One-piece metals or resins are what I paint up out of choice just for fun. I see assembling fiddly little plastic models as a bit of a chore though, rather than fun.

If I was planning a KoW army for Goblins I'd maybe get some at the right price. They are a lot nicer than the KoW models for big units if they prove cost-effective £/$-wise.

The new game itself, models aside, looks interesting though. If it has the production qualities of Frostgrave I'll likely bite. May or may not play it, but I'm a sucker for pretty rulebooks with nice pictures!


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/10 11:13:49


Post by: MattW


Ok, a few new details have emerged:

Firstly, they’ll be up for pre-order on the 13th, and priced at 25 GBP for a box of 30.

In addition, they have previewed some characters, which will be released in metal:




[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/10 12:39:21


Post by: PourSpelur


Just guessing here but I think the static/awkward poses mentioned earlier is because they're meant for massed battles. Blocks of warriors in formation that actually fit in formation. Few things are more tiresome in my book than trying to make a bunch of splayed out minis rank up.
$33 for 30 is a good deal.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/10 17:30:24


Post by: Pacific


Really, really nice looking plastics.

Like the understated, classic look to both the Dwarves and the Goblins. The Dwarves in particular remind me a lot of the early GW metal efforts, before they turned into bellies on legs, and can see them being really popular.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/10 17:38:19


Post by: Galas


Yeah I'm loving this celtics-style dwarfs. And at that price point they are a steal!


And personally, I have no problems with models that are rigid and not dynamic. Not every model has to be dynamic like a Elven War Dancer.
My all time favourite regiment miniatures can't be more rigid, but when they are all formed in a nice square they couldn't be more beautifull.
Spoiler:


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/10 17:38:23


Post by: Myrthe


 Pacific wrote:
...GW ... before they turned into bellies on legs ...


Finally !!! These look fantastic and just how I envision Dwarves should look.
I never understood how GW evolved them from carrying kegs to becoming kegs !!


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/13 11:40:11


Post by: OneManNoodles


The Dwarves are up for pre-order now, running until 23rd October.

http://northstarfigures.com/list.php?man=257&page=1

Pre-order prices are:

- 1 box for £20 saving £8 and a "free" metal dwarf champion

or

- 2 boxes for £40 saving £16 and 2 different "free" metal dwarf champions


These look fantastic, loads of options, might be worth trying to combine them with some of the gear from the frostgrave soldiers. Can't wait!

Edit: "I can't read" error, save £8 on 1 box and £16 on 2 boxes not £5.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/13 13:11:38


Post by: adamsouza


I just pre-ordered a box. Shipped to the U.S., it was only 22.17 eur ($26.31 U.S. dollars)


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/13 15:08:01


Post by: Shrapnelsmile


MattW wrote:
Though the rules are apparently still some way off, they're releasing the miniatures for this game pretty soon, apparently.



Some more shots of the Dwarves:





And 3-ups of the goblins:



Still to come is a set of humans, and a set of elves, but AFAIK there's not much information about any further releases. I'm assuming that we'll see characters at the very least, but whether or not cavalry and war machines come in plastic or another material is yet to be confirmed (if either unit type ever gets made).

There's only really this FB page in terms of information:

https://www.facebook.com/Oathmark/


I have a lot 15mm fantasy miniatures, and am looking for a good rule set. Is Aothmark compatible with that scale?


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/13 18:45:04


Post by: ced1106


Sure doesn't look like it -- I've been assuming it's 28mm.

Multipiece 15mm miniatures??


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/13 18:48:43


Post by: Elbows


He's asking about the rules. In general I've never found a ruleset which was stuck to one scale.

At the very worst you need to swap inches for centimeters or something to that effect.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/14 01:03:24


Post by: MattW


There is absolutely no detail about the rules beyond the following:

It’s true, I am currently designing a mass-battle fantasy game as part of my job for Osprey Games. I don’t want to talk too much about it at present, because it is still in the early stages of development. It is still going to be a long time before a set of rules hits the market, and many elements can, and probably will, change from now until then.

That said, for the curious, I can make a few statements about which I am 'mostly' confident.

Oathmark is a ‘rank and file’ game, meaning that most figures will be organized into units that will fight in blocks.
However, the basic element of the game is the figure. Each figure has its own stats, and casualties are removed individually.
The standard base for most ‘human-ish’ sized figures is 25mm square, so figures mounted on round 25mm, or smaller, bases will be usable with movement trays.
The game features a bunch of different races – four main ones to start – each of which have unique stats.
There will be a full campaign system, which involves building your kingdom as well as your army. (Assuming I can get all of it to work!).
This game has no connection to Frostgrave other than sharing a few deep routed philosophies about what I believe makes a fun fantasy wargame. (Plus most of the plastic kits for the two games will be compatible!).

I’ll talk more about the game as I go along, but it will be a slow process. For now, enjoy the plastic minis that are coming soon!


Source: https://therenaissancetroll.blogspot.com.au/2017/10/oathmark.html


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/16 18:40:38


Post by: Easy E


I really hope he avoids the false granularity of the D20 for this game.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/16 20:16:03


Post by: Alpharius


False granularity of the D20?

Please explain!


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/16 20:25:28


Post by: Llamahead


I'm guessing but D20's provide more different results but if most of the results mean almost the same thing you might as well use a smaller dice a 17 or an 18 is usually a kill in Frostgrave so does it matter which you rolled?


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/16 20:33:06


Post by: Alpharius


So a D20 'done right' does in fact (obviously) give more options, but the fear here is that it won't matter, and could have been done 'simpler'?


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/16 22:37:33


Post by: Zethnar


It's kind of an empty complaint though. Who cares what shape the dice you roll are, as long as the numbers they generate are random. For example if you succeed on the top 25% of a dice's number range then it literally doesn't matter if they are d20s, d10s, d4s, or d100s (other than how much you want your modifiers to affect the roll) unless you're talking about the difference between a dice pool system and a straight diceroll.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/17 01:51:11


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


How do you get 25% of a D10?


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/17 04:05:51


Post by: Theophony


 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
How do you get 25% of a D10?

There’s a joke in there about Robotech and Palladium I just know it.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/17 04:13:56


Post by: adamsouza


 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
How do you get 25% of a D10?


Not sure if serious...

I presume he meant precentile results from rolling 2d10



[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/17 05:23:33


Post by: Zethnar


 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
How do you get 25% of a D10?


Pretend I wrote d8.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/17 16:20:50


Post by: Albino Squirrel


 Zethnar wrote:
It's kind of an empty complaint though. Who cares what shape the dice you roll are, as long as the numbers they generate are random. For example if you succeed on the top 25% of a dice's number range then it literally doesn't matter if they are d20s, d10s, d4s, or d100s (other than how much you want your modifiers to affect the roll) unless you're talking about the difference between a dice pool system and a straight diceroll.


Yeah, isn't that the whole point? The differences between models aren't all that meaningful when one rolls D20+1 and another rolls D20+2. The stats make much more of a difference if the dice are D10 or D6 compared with the effect of the roll.



[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/17 16:44:44


Post by: Elbows


One of the things widely criticized about Frostgrave (and I concur) is the swingy nature of D20. On a single dice roll, it's massive. D20 can work quite well in the right circumstances. Say for instance you want to simply use it in a fixed value. This unit has an Attack value of 12...so anything 1-12 is a success. Well then that's all well and good, and you can have serfs and peasants with Attack 2 and Knights of the Realm with Attack 17...and that's useful and a big deal. As mentioned above though D20+1 vs. D20+2 is almost ignoring the actual stat or modifier and you're just relying on a big swing either way in the dice roll.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/17 19:08:52


Post by: Ian Sturrock


FG can be swingy but it's pretty well-balanced overall (except that Treasure Hunters beat other henchmen for most purposes).

Although you're often only getting a small increase, e.g. +2 to damage for having a 2-handed weapon or crossbow rather than a one-handed weapon or bow, that makes a big difference even allowing for the swinginess, because of armour and health points. Against most opponents, a one-handed weapon or bow will not do a one-shot kill, whereas a 2H weapon or crossbow are much more scary to important targets such as wizards, because that one-shot kill is a very real possibility. It still might only happen 10% of the time, but that's enough of a risk that you probably don't expose your wizard to it, giving the soldiers with the +2 a significant area control power.

So, though I had misgivings about the swinginess originally, in practice it works pretty well for exciting but still tactically rich skirmish games.

I doubt Joe will use d20 for the mass battle game, mind.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/17 19:17:51


Post by: Albino Squirrel


Though, I think Frostgrave was intended to focus on the wizards and spells, and the spells do work more like that. A spell might succeed on a 16+ to start, but you level it up once and it's 15+. That only makes a small difference, but it also means you can level up lots of times in a campaign without running out of way to improve slightly.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/17 19:58:19


Post by: JSG


These looks great and I love the way they are packaged. Reminds me of the old skeleton army boxes. Then I see the chain mail and despair. Even more so because the chain mail on the goblins look great. Why not get that guy to do both? They're not GW so release schedule can't be that pressing.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/17 22:58:06


Post by: MattW


North Star have put out an FAQ, covering some rules queries and the future of the range:

Spoiler:


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/17 23:22:19


Post by: pancakeonions


I'm pretty excited for this. Happy to have access to more plastic goblins!

And d10s, hooray! Much better than d6.

I really don't understand what folks mean by "swingy" d20s. 1-3 on a d6 is the same as 1-10 on a d20. There's no extra "randomness", and the granularity, to my mind, is a plus. You can create much more variability and distinctiveness with a d8 or d10 (or d20) based system. Long live the d10! Down with the d6!


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/18 00:08:06


Post by: Zethnar


 Albino Squirrel wrote:


Yeah, isn't that the whole point? The differences between models aren't all that meaningful when one rolls D20+1 and another rolls D20+2. The stats make much more of a difference if the dice are D10 or D6 compared with the effect of the roll.



That's exactly the point I was trying to make. Using a dice with a larger number of faces isn't 'false granularity' (something the post I was responding to claimed), in terms of distribution of results it's equivalent to using any die with a smaller number of faces as long as you are rolling only a single die (or a single die per figure). When you do take into account dice modifiers, however, it introduces a level of granularity that isn't available to dice with lower face counts.

It's all irrelevant though because by the sounds of it the game uses d10s.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/18 02:02:52


Post by: adamsouza


 pancakeonions wrote:
I'm pretty excited for this. Happy to have access to more plastic goblins!

And d10s, hooray! Much better than d6.

I really don't understand what folks mean by "swingy" d20s. 1-3 on a d6 is the same as 1-10 on a d20. There's no extra "randomness", and the granularity, to my mind, is a plus. You can create much more variability and distinctiveness with a d8 or d10 (or d20) based system. Long live the d10! Down with the d6!


With a D6 you are breaking down into 16.6% increments.
With a D10 you are breaking down into 10% increments.
With a D20 you are breaking down into 5% increments,

I can understand in a RPG that you would want a greater possible range of results, but in a wargame you generally abstract units down to simple stats since you just need to know if you hit, wound, save, or break.



[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/18 02:57:46


Post by: pancakeonions


And d10s may provide a really nice balance between the two. I'm officially intrigued by this game now (though it will be hard to dethrone Kings of War, which I still think is great)


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/18 03:37:46


Post by: Zethnar


 adamsouza wrote:
 pancakeonions wrote:
I'm pretty excited for this. Happy to have access to more plastic goblins!

And d10s, hooray! Much better than d6.

I really don't understand what folks mean by "swingy" d20s. 1-3 on a d6 is the same as 1-10 on a d20. There's no extra "randomness", and the granularity, to my mind, is a plus. You can create much more variability and distinctiveness with a d8 or d10 (or d20) based system. Long live the d10! Down with the d6!


With a D6 you are breaking down into 16.6% increments.
With a D10 you are breaking down into 10% increments.
With a D20 you are breaking down into 5% increments,

I can understand in a RPG that you would want a greater possible range of results, but in a wargame you generally abstract units down to simple stats since you just need to know if you hit, wound, save, or break.



There's no functional difference between rolling an 11+ on a d20, rolling a 6+ on a d10, or a 4+ on a d6. The dice themselves aren't any more or less random than each other since they have the same odds of rolling within a particular percentile range (as long as you allow for fractions you can't actually roll due to the number of faces on a die). You could play WH40K with a fist full of d12s as long as you doubled all the modifiers and target numbers and it would functionally be the same game with the same chances of success.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/18 06:41:25


Post by: ulgurstasta


Spoiler:
 Zethnar wrote:
 adamsouza wrote:
 pancakeonions wrote:
I'm pretty excited for this. Happy to have access to more plastic goblins!

And d10s, hooray! Much better than d6.

I really don't understand what folks mean by "swingy" d20s. 1-3 on a d6 is the same as 1-10 on a d20. There's no extra "randomness", and the granularity, to my mind, is a plus. You can create much more variability and distinctiveness with a d8 or d10 (or d20) based system. Long live the d10! Down with the d6!


With a D6 you are breaking down into 16.6% increments.
With a D10 you are breaking down into 10% increments.
With a D20 you are breaking down into 5% increments,

I can understand in a RPG that you would want a greater possible range of results, but in a wargame you generally abstract units down to simple stats since you just need to know if you hit, wound, save, or break.





There's no functional difference between rolling an 11+ on a d20, rolling a 6+ on a d10, or a 4+ on a d6. The dice themselves aren't any more or less random than each other since they have the same odds of rolling within a particular percentile range (as long as you allow for fractions you can't actually roll due to the number of faces on a die). You could play WH40K with a fist full of d12s as long as you doubled all the modifiers and target numbers and it would functionally be the same game with the same chances of success.


I dont think that is under dispute, the question is rather if a 5% granularity is actually needed in a wargame?


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/18 07:03:15


Post by: Pacific


Think for something like Infinity? Most people that have played that game would say yes.

It allows that granularity between quality of troops and effectiveness of weapons, and especially when combined with a wider range of stats.

Remember 40k itself used to use dice other than a D6 (for weapon damage) and it's only in recent years that this seems to have been somehow installed as the only true measure of random number generation (perhaps because a lot of the 'big games' - GW, FoW etc. only use a D6). But for anyone that has experienced a wider range of wargames or boardgames, type of dice doesn't really matter.

Agree with Pancakeonions - Think D10s would be perfectly fine.

Anyway - what we have seen so far is very nice! Looking forward to seeing how they make the humans distinctive, especially with the great range of plastic historicals that are available (many of which North Star actually sell from their site)


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/18 07:22:21


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


Looking good, it will be interesting to see how a middle of the road fantasy war game does especially after GW abandoned that niche.

I'd prefer my Dwarves with crossbows or black powder but that's a quibble. Interested in seeing the humans.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/18 11:59:54


Post by: Alpharius


 ulgurstasta wrote:
Spoiler:
 Zethnar wrote:
 adamsouza wrote:
 pancakeonions wrote:
I'm pretty excited for this. Happy to have access to more plastic goblins!

And d10s, hooray! Much better than d6.

I really don't understand what folks mean by "swingy" d20s. 1-3 on a d6 is the same as 1-10 on a d20. There's no extra "randomness", and the granularity, to my mind, is a plus. You can create much more variability and distinctiveness with a d8 or d10 (or d20) based system. Long live the d10! Down with the d6!


With a D6 you are breaking down into 16.6% increments.
With a D10 you are breaking down into 10% increments.
With a D20 you are breaking down into 5% increments,

I can understand in a RPG that you would want a greater possible range of results, but in a wargame you generally abstract units down to simple stats since you just need to know if you hit, wound, save, or break.





There's no functional difference between rolling an 11+ on a d20, rolling a 6+ on a d10, or a 4+ on a d6. The dice themselves aren't any more or less random than each other since they have the same odds of rolling within a particular percentile range (as long as you allow for fractions you can't actually roll due to the number of faces on a die). You could play WH40K with a fist full of d12s as long as you doubled all the modifiers and target numbers and it would functionally be the same game with the same chances of success.


I dont think that is under dispute, the question is rather if a 5% granularity is actually needed in a wargame?


I say 'yes' in Skirmish scale and 'probably not' in Mass Battle scale...


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/18 12:41:13


Post by: Psychopomp


 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Looking good, it will be interesting to see how a middle of the road fantasy war game does especially after GW abandoned that niche.

I'd prefer my Dwarves with crossbows or black powder but that's a quibble. Interested in seeing the humans.


Every single one of those three sentences exactly mirror my reaction to the FAQ. GET OUT OF MY HEAD!

Given how cross-compatible these kits look to be with the Frostgrave ones (and how cross compatible the Frostgrave kits are with each other), it'd be really nice to see some sort of regiment-equipping upgrade sprues. Like a sprue with 5 sets of crossbows & arms and 5 sets of rifles & arms. Another sprue with 5 sets of halberds and 5 sets of great weapons. That sort of thing. With the arms being generic enough to fit across the kits, giving us something you could order separately so that you could make a unit of 10 - 20 without needing multiple boxes because that weapon comes two to a sprue.

Heck, they'd probably be useful for conversion past the Frostgrave and Oathmark kits.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/18 13:33:27


Post by: Vorian


 ulgurstasta wrote:
Spoiler:
 Zethnar wrote:
 adamsouza wrote:
 pancakeonions wrote:
I'm pretty excited for this. Happy to have access to more plastic goblins!

And d10s, hooray! Much better than d6.

I really don't understand what folks mean by "swingy" d20s. 1-3 on a d6 is the same as 1-10 on a d20. There's no extra "randomness", and the granularity, to my mind, is a plus. You can create much more variability and distinctiveness with a d8 or d10 (or d20) based system. Long live the d10! Down with the d6!


With a D6 you are breaking down into 16.6% increments.
With a D10 you are breaking down into 10% increments.
With a D20 you are breaking down into 5% increments,

I can understand in a RPG that you would want a greater possible range of results, but in a wargame you generally abstract units down to simple stats since you just need to know if you hit, wound, save, or break.





There's no functional difference between rolling an 11+ on a d20, rolling a 6+ on a d10, or a 4+ on a d6. The dice themselves aren't any more or less random than each other since they have the same odds of rolling within a particular percentile range (as long as you allow for fractions you can't actually roll due to the number of faces on a die). You could play WH40K with a fist full of d12s as long as you doubled all the modifiers and target numbers and it would functionally be the same game with the same chances of success.


I dont think that is under dispute, the question is rather if a 5% granularity is actually needed in a wargame?


That's nothing to do with being "swingy", which is a pretty ridiculous thing to say about a d20.

I've always liked a d12 myself. A pretty reasonable amount of granularity and it's essentially like having halfs in a d6 system which everyone is familiar with.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/18 15:01:21


Post by: Albino Squirrel


Perhaps the general discussion about dice types in general should go in some other thread, unless it actually has something to do with the mechanics of this game (which we don't know much about yet).


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/18 15:12:13


Post by: Nostromodamus


 Albino Squirrel wrote:
Perhaps the general discussion about dice types in general should go in some other thread, unless it actually has something to do with the mechanics of this game (which we don't know much about yet).


I alerted a Mod already. Hopefully this thread gets back to actual news and rumours sometime soon.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/18 19:52:40


Post by: Easy E


Lately, I have lost interest in "mass battle" games that have individual casualty removal.

Instead, a "mass battle" game should focus on morale degradation of units. However, I have a feeling this "ranks and Flanks" game is more small unit skirmish scale than "mass battle".*

Either way, I am interested to see what they do with it.


*= Whatever the terms "Mass Battle" and "Small Unit Skirmish" means?


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/18 22:20:24


Post by: Alpharius


Well, they're billing this as 'mass battle', so...

...I suppose we'll find out what *they* think that means.

To me, 'Skirmish' is around 20 models per side max, give or take.

And at 20, many of those will be 'grunt' types.

"Mass Battle" should be far, far more than that, again, with the usual swings for 'elite' vs. 'horde' army types.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/19 23:23:29


Post by: MattW


 Alpharius wrote:
Well, they're billing this as 'mass battle', so...

...I suppose we'll find out what *they* think that means.

To me, 'Skirmish' is around 20 models per side max, give or take.

And at 20, many of those will be 'grunt' types.

"Mass Battle" should be far, far more than that, again, with the usual swings for 'elite' vs. 'horde' army types.


So far, the comments on the facebook page hint at moving up from war bands of 30-odd models to battles with 'hundreds' of models. Personally, I'd prefer a system with a model count of 60-150ish, depending on elite vs. horde.

Otherwise, there's little news. Trolls have been hinted at as a future release, but I expect that we'll have to wait another few weeks before we get to see more of the goblins (or anything else). I understand that they just wanted to get the minis out there, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't slightly frustrated by the lack of info about what to expect in terms of future releases.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/28 11:06:55


Post by: MattW


This image popped up on the Facebook page, and the sculptor confirmed that this is one of the plastic elves. There hasn’t been any official confirmation that it’s the plastic elves, but I thought I’d post it anyhow...



I am really, really looking forward to these.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/28 22:20:51


Post by: Gallahad


That is a very uninspiring elf. I know they are aiming for nostalgia here, but the design seems particularly bland. I hope the dinner plate on his chest turns into something visually interesting, and I hope they don't all have bob haircuts. There were many historical armies much more interestingly dressed than that elf.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/29 00:23:45


Post by: MattW


Well, in the hours since I’ve posted that image, they’ve released a painted version and clarified exactly what this guy is. He’s not from the upcoming plastics, but was made as a mock-up to establish visual style.





[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2025/09/28 00:26:30


Post by: Alpharius


Not liking that Elf at all...

That's a...curious decision they've made there.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/29 00:33:58


Post by: MattW


 Alpharius wrote:
Not liking that Elf at all...

That's a...curious decision they've made there.


What is it that you don’t like? I love it (apart from maybe the helmet, but that’s not a big deal to me), so curious to know what people don’t like about it.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/29 00:52:15


Post by: Azazelx


To me it looks like a Bob Naismith elf from the mid-late 1980's. I don't hate it, but it does nothing for me. I wouldn't buy it but I wouldn't crap on other people using it in their armies.

I guess... there's nothing about it that really says "elf" definitely. I mean, we take the implications of the feather, gemmed boots, spiral design on the armour and tree on the shield and assume "elf", but those are all elements that have featured in human armies over the centuries. We're just shorthanding the combination of them - with the high cheekbones - to mean "elf".

I don't think the flesh-coloured Fu Manchu moustache/cat lips does the painted version any favours.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/29 00:55:37


Post by: Galas


That elf hasn't anything that says "I'm an elf" barring the smug face, as Azazelx said. The dwarf, even being "classic" and "nostalgic" is clearly a dwarf.

But, that painted goblin is pretty damm good. A very classic-orc/goblin style. I really like it.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/29 01:37:26


Post by: ecurtz


I like that dwarf and goblin more than any of the plastics we've seen which is a bad sign for the elves given that I agree with most people that the sample is nothing special.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/29 01:38:20


Post by: MattW


Hmmm, I get both of your points. I suppose it isn’t too ‘elven’, but then, what does that mean? Looking at the art of Ted Naismith from first-age books, there really isn’t much difference between elves and men anyway (and I suspect that this kind of ‘classic’ fantasy imagery was an inspiration for these elves).

It’ll be interesting to see how they differentiate their humans from the elves.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/29 02:07:27


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


There's a Kickstarter for plastic elves restarting soon, and the difference is immense. Those elves might borrow more from GW than Tolkien, but they are clearly elves, and they look like they can justify their smug mugs far more than the Ren Faire Souvenir Vendor up above.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/29 03:02:05


Post by: Nostromodamus


Elf is meh.

Goblin has me salivating...


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/29 11:35:40


Post by: Llamahead


Almost prefer the Mantic Elves. Do prefer the LoTR elves.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/29 11:50:24


Post by: Iron_Captain


I like that Elf. Looks a lot like the illustrations from LotR and Silmarillion. Very Tolkien, without all the impractical designs that later works blinged their elves out with (not that I really mind that either though).


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/29 12:58:55


Post by: JSG


LOOK AT THE CHAINMAIL ON THAT DWARF! Disgusting.

Seriously though, why are people pretending that Elf doesn't look like an Elf? There's no way any of us would have mistaken it for anything else. I'd like the design to be a little more refined. Have the helm cover the cheeks, a noseguard, I might've given him scalemail. Overall I really like the stripped back, old school design and the boxes are great value.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/29 14:26:04


Post by: Samsonov


Not a huge fan of the elf either. Face looks a bit off for me. Not sure exactly what a face of an elf should look like but that does not look like one to me.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/29 14:53:40


Post by: Relapse


The first thing that I thought of looking at the elf was that he was taking a selfie for Facebook. Aside from that, it looks fairly decent.
That goblin is outstanding.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/29 14:57:10


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


JSG wrote:
LOOK AT THE CHAINMAIL ON THAT DWARF! Disgusting.

Seriously though, why are people pretending that Elf doesn't look like an Elf? There's no way any of us would have mistaken it for anything else. I'd like the design to be a little more refined. Have the helm cover the cheeks, a noseguard, I might've given him scalemail. Overall I really like the stripped back, old school design and the boxes are great value.


.???

Looks like some random dark ages guy with a sword to me. Nothing about him suggests that he is an elf.

He's 100% pure vanilla extract.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/29 15:03:22


Post by: Theophony


 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
JSG wrote:
LOOK AT THE CHAINMAIL ON THAT DWARF! Disgusting.

Seriously though, why are people pretending that Elf doesn't look like an Elf? There's no way any of us would have mistaken it for anything else. I'd like the design to be a little more refined. Have the helm cover the cheeks, a noseguard, I might've given him scalemail. Overall I really like the stripped back, old school design and the boxes are great value.


.???

Looks like some random dark ages guy with a sword to me. Nothing about him suggests that he is an elf.

He's 100% pure vanilla extract.


He actually reminds me of Nemo from league of extraordinary gentlemen.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/29 15:20:00


Post by: JSG


 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
JSG wrote:
LOOK AT THE CHAINMAIL ON THAT DWARF! Disgusting.

Seriously though, why are people pretending that Elf doesn't look like an Elf? There's no way any of us would have mistaken it for anything else. I'd like the design to be a little more refined. Have the helm cover the cheeks, a noseguard, I might've given him scalemail. Overall I really like the stripped back, old school design and the boxes are great value.


.???

Looks like some random dark ages guy with a sword to me. Nothing about him suggests that he is an elf.

He's 100% pure vanilla extract.


So had you seen that figure with no accompanying text, you'd have thought it was a historical mini? Again, why pretend? Is it a bit vanilla? Yeah. Then again that's obviously the kind of look they're going for so there's only so much they could do without losing that.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/29 15:28:40


Post by: Orlanth


The dwarves were available by the sprue at Salute 2017 on the Frostgrave section of the Osprey trade stand.
I was successfully hoodwinked into thinking there were an upcoming warband option, up to a point they are.
I saw the command group upgrades but thought that was just a 9th Age cash in, which it certainly can be.

If Osprey make a wargames system I hope it doesn't have glaring brainfarts in the rules like Frostgrave has. I am more than willing to pick up a copy and use it as another alternative to WHFB 6th, 8th and 9th Age.

From looking at the dwarf sprue the game scale will fit in just fine for mt collection.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
MattW wrote:
 Alpharius wrote:
Not liking that Elf at all...

That's a...curious decision they've made there.


What is it that you don’t like? I love it (apart from maybe the helmet, but that’s not a big deal to me), so curious to know what people don’t like about it.


The elf has the look of Joe Dever's art from the 80's.
The whole composition looks very Middle Earth to me. Frostgrave is c11th century tech, not far off Tolkien's own vision. Though Middle Earth is also part classical and part early industrial.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/29 17:06:21


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


JSG wrote:
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
JSG wrote:
LOOK AT THE CHAINMAIL ON THAT DWARF! Disgusting.

Seriously though, why are people pretending that Elf doesn't look like an Elf? There's no way any of us would have mistaken it for anything else. I'd like the design to be a little more refined. Have the helm cover the cheeks, a noseguard, I might've given him scalemail. Overall I really like the stripped back, old school design and the boxes are great value.


.???

Looks like some random dark ages guy with a sword to me. Nothing about him suggests that he is an elf.

He's 100% pure vanilla extract.


So had you seen that figure with no accompanying text, you'd have thought it was a historical mini? Again, why pretend? Is it a bit vanilla? Yeah. Then again that's obviously the kind of look they're going for so there's only so much they could do without losing that.


Yeah. I did think it was a historical mini, although one sculpted to the standards of the early 90's/Frostgrave metals. If the prices are anywhere near as "decent for fantasy" as the dwarfs, I don't see why anyone wouldn't just buy a bunch of Perry or Gripping Beast minis for half the cost per mini and just paint them up like Fingolfin or Glorfindel or Finwhatever for equally efficacious results. If the bar for Tolkien verisimilitude is "it has to look like a terrible painting from one of those old calendars my grandma bought at a garage sale because it has the dragon" then mission easily accomplished.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/29 23:58:34


Post by: Kalamadea


 Azazelx wrote:
To me it looks like a Bob Naismith elf from the mid-late 1980's. I don't hate it, but it does nothing for me. I wouldn't buy it but I wouldn't crap on other people using it in their armies.

I guess... there's nothing about it that really says "elf" definitely. I mean, we take the implications of the feather, gemmed boots, spiral design on the armour and tree on the shield and assume "elf", but those are all elements that have featured in human armies over the centuries. We're just shorthanding the combination of them - with the high cheekbones - to mean "elf".

I don't think the flesh-coloured Fu Manchu moustache/cat lips does the painted version any favours.


I don't always agree with Azazelx, but that is some on point commentary, 100% agree

There's nothing wrong with the elf, it's just very bland and uninspiring. I kinda dig the 80's throwback designs, especially for the dwarves, but there's too many other elf lines out there that I like more, I don't see myself picking up any of these even if I did get into the game, I'd use actual LotR or GW elves as standins


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/30 00:01:26


Post by: pancakeonions


 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
There's a Kickstarter for plastic elves restarting soon, and the difference is immense. Those elves might borrow more from GW than Tolkien, but they are clearly elves, and they look like they can justify their smug mugs far more than the Ren Faire Souvenir Vendor up above.


Whose kickstarter is this? I'd like to keep an eye out for it.

I think the elf is OK. Nothing awesome, but not bad.

But yea, the goblin/orc is great!


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/30 00:18:02


Post by: MattW


 pancakeonions wrote:
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
There's a Kickstarter for plastic elves restarting soon, and the difference is immense. Those elves might borrow more from GW than Tolkien, but they are clearly elves, and they look like they can justify their smug mugs far more than the Ren Faire Souvenir Vendor up above.


Whose kickstarter is this? I'd like to keep an eye out for it.

I think the elf is OK. Nothing awesome, but not bad.

But yea, the goblin/orc is great!


I think he’s talking about the Last Sword one. They’re much more Peter Jackson-style, and in a kind of restic rather than HIPS.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/30 00:38:11


Post by: ZenBadger


Personally speaking, all three races look perfect to me. Just the kind of down to earth, old school fantasy I have been looking for. I can see me making up some Middle Earth warbands for Dragon Rampant with these alongside historical miniatures for Gondor and Rohan. Hopefully they will have enough "heft" so they don't look out of place alongside Gripping Beast and Fireforge.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/30 00:47:57


Post by: kestral


While the elf isn't very "elfy", he is a great fit with the dwarves and ork in terms of overall style.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/30 00:52:47


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


Yeah, I mean Last Sword.


And old school fantasy? Moorcock, Vance and Howard? Because they all had much more interesting ideas than anything found on that mini. The old, old uninspired art that interpreted Middle Earth through a purely historical European aesthetic was always boring, and smacked of the contemporaneous culture that derided fantasy and science fiction as juvenile garbage or the playground of deviants.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/30 01:19:23


Post by: MattW


 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Yeah, I mean Last Sword.


And old school fantasy? Moorcock, Vance and Howard? Because they all had much more interesting ideas than anything found on that mini. The old, old uninspired art that interpreted Middle Earth through a purely historical European aesthetic was always boring, and smacked of the contemporaneous culture that derided fantasy and science fiction as juvenile garbage or the playground of deviants.


Tbf Tolkien himself seems to have interpreted fantasy through a European historical aesthetic.

Not sure why you're in such disbelief over the fact that people might actually like such a look.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/30 01:54:49


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


MattW wrote:
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Yeah, I mean Last Sword.


And old school fantasy? Moorcock, Vance and Howard? Because they all had much more interesting ideas than anything found on that mini. The old, old uninspired art that interpreted Middle Earth through a purely historical European aesthetic was always boring, and smacked of the contemporaneous culture that derided fantasy and science fiction as juvenile garbage or the playground of deviants.


Tbf Tolkien himself seems to have interpreted fantasy through a European historical aesthetic.

Not sure why you're in such disbelief over the fact that people might actually like such a look.


People can like the look without disturbing me. They can even pay more for the privilege of calling a historical mini a fantasy mini. But showing dismay that someone doesn't find it's obviously an elf? Too far!

The introduction of more Euro-Tolkien minis bother me for the same reason as another set of Napoleonics, Germans, Pirates or zombies bother me. Why bother with something new when you can play it safe? Do they save a lot of money on talented design artists and sculptors by aiming for the "old school" market?


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/30 02:23:53


Post by: MattW


But it's very clearly ~not~ a historical mini. Who in reality dressed quite like that? Maybe if you combined elements from a few different periods, and even then, you probably wouldn't get that result.

I'm not sure that reviving a style that's about 30 years old is necessarily playing it safe, either. Other styles of elf all seem to be a variant of the GW or WETA style, which makes them just as derivative as far as I can tell. Who else makes plastic 'euro-Tolkien' miniatures? Apart from Grenadier, who produces any at all?

I'll give you that the sculpts are a little less, er, sophisticated than many modern sculpts, but I'm guessing that was part of the brief. Simple miniatures are probably better suited to mass-battle games anyhow.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/30 05:41:43


Post by: Gallahad


MattW wrote:
But it's very clearly ~not~ a historical mini. Who in reality dressed quite like that? Maybe if you combined elements from a few different periods, and even then, you probably wouldn't get that result.

I'm not sure that reviving a style that's about 30 years old is necessarily playing it safe, either. Other styles of elf all seem to be a variant of the GW or WETA style, which makes them just as derivative as far as I can tell. Who else makes plastic 'euro-Tolkien' miniatures? Apart from Grenadier, who produces any at all?

I'll give you that the sculpts are a little less, er, sophisticated than many modern sculpts, but I'm guessing that was part of the brief. Simple miniatures are probably better suited to mass-battle games anyhow.


The elf looks like a Norman with a bob haircut. And a poor Norman at that. If Tolkien is our standard and historical costume our guide for fantasy, then the elves at least ought to have the same level of panache and tech as the classical armies. The classical Greeks, the Romans, and the Byzantines all had soldiers that dressed much snazzier than the elf shown above. I'm all about practical armor design, but I feel that a part of fantasy is a bit of license to at least skirt the line of interesting historical design.

I don't really have the nostalgia glasses, and I can't really see the appeal of an army of "fantasy" elves that is stylistically a single feather away from a dark age Norman.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/30 05:59:26


Post by: Voss


 BobtheInquisitor wrote:


The introduction of more Euro-Tolkien minis bother me for the same reason as another set of Napoleonics, Germans, Pirates or zombies bother me. Why bother with something new when you can play it safe? Do they save a lot of money on talented design artists and sculptors by aiming for the "old school" market?


I'm confused by this. Both because the play it safe question answers itself (if going old school is actually playing it safe at this point, which a quick look around at various games suggests it isn't), but also that something 'new' is inherently a good move.

This is both on the 'will it actually appeal to people, so they'll buy it' side of things (GW has transitioned to the occasional purveyor of 'new' models with 'new' aesthetics that I wouldn't give a corroded penny for) and the more philosophical, why is your assumption new=good?


There simply isn't a lot of this kind of fantasy around these days, as it's been overshadowed by the kitchen sink blenders of techno-nonsense (among other things) that characterize warcraft and warhammer and shoehorning guns and outlandish nonsense into pretty much everything.
It will be interesting to see if it can succeed, and quite nice if it does.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/30 07:48:48


Post by: Ian Sturrock


Aesthetically, for me, the elf is on a par with GW elves of the 1980s, which does kind of make it a match for the goblins and dwarves... except that, frankly, GW's 80s elves were rather dull sculpts even thirty years ago, IMO. And, unlike the dwarf and goblin of the previews, there seems to have been no real attempt to improve on the 80s designs. The dwarf and goblin are recognisably similar to classic 80s minis, in that I could see the dwarves fitting fine with my 80s GW minis and the goblins with older or 80s-inspired ranges like Scotia Grendel or Grenadier; yet these new plastics also, if anything, are a bit more coherent and characterful. More importantly they're plastic, which is a big draw for me when it comes to putting together big armies. I bought a couple of boxes of the dwarves even though I already have a shedload of dwarves from various manufacturers, because they're the nicest plastic dwarves I've ever seen, which admittedly is not a super high bar.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/30 08:06:10


Post by: Pacific


Yep, I'm in the same boat. Was looking for an army of dwarves some time ago and there is very little that isn't heavily stylised in one way or another.

Think for me these are probably some of the nicest, along with the earlier LoTR dwarf miniatures.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/30 08:21:52


Post by: -iPaint-


It seems like a Dark Ages model that's been converted without really going the extra mile to let you know it's not a conversion.

I think elves benefit from longer, more slender profiles, more elegantly designed weapons and armor, and scale mail instead of chain mail.

A bit more cloth and leather would be preferable as underlying armor, as would a more enclosed helm with a nose guard. A skull cap doesn't really scream "Elf" to me, nor does a standard bastard sword with cross hilt.

It's just, bland. Take away the head and it's a normal Saxon/Norman/Viking/etc from the Dark Ages.

Werner Klocke nailed the look for Elves for the Reaper Warlord range, imo, and so did the design team behind the Peter Jackson LOTR films.

~iPaint


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/30 09:11:57


Post by: Azazelx


JSG wrote:

So had you seen that figure with no accompanying text, you'd have thought it was a historical mini? Again, why pretend? Is it a bit vanilla? Yeah. Then again that's obviously the kind of look they're going for so there's only so much they could do without losing that.


Here's the thing, I guess:

That elf strongly inspires feelings of complete indifference to me. (I know there's an oxymoron there!) If "meh" was a wargames figure, that elf would be it.
But.
I like GW's Elf Look, and PJ's LotR Elf Look, and a lot of Reaper's stuff - so I'm personally well served for elves. I can find elves that I like pretty easily.
You guys who like these figures - well, now you have something that suits your preferred aesthetic and meets your needs. This can only be a good thing. Not every model needs to be made for me. So without any snark or sarcasm - enjoy your North Star elves!


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/30 12:06:50


Post by: ulgurstasta


I'm not much for the 80's retro minis, I'm more interested in the campaign system. I doubt that I will drop KoW for this but the campaign system might be worth stealing


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/30 12:15:24


Post by: Do_I_Not_Like_That


Is it just me, or does that Elf look like it has a moustache?

None the less, Osprey and North Star have never let me down when it comes to games. Osprey's wargames books are first class

would recommend them to anybody.

I think I'll get into this.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/10/30 19:44:59


Post by: OneManNoodles


Got my box of dwarves through the post earlier, they look pretty damned good in person.

I also ordered a set of the "Dwarf Flag and Shield Transfers" from Little Big Men Studios sold along side them, very impressive print quality, if anyone else has been considering these, you only get what you see in the image. They seem to be self adhesive.

Really looking forward to playing with these

Depending on how the finished models look. I'll probably be pre-ordering the goblins as well whenever they get announced.

I'd be willing to bet the painted goblin shown will be the free pre-order only model with the box of 30.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/11/02 23:25:20


Post by: MattW


Goblin multi-part plastics sneak peek:



[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/11/06 20:20:32


Post by: MattW


Plastic goblin sprue pics, I suppose this means the pre-order starts soon:



[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/11/06 20:53:32


Post by: NinthMusketeer


I'm real interested in at least one kit for RPG play.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/11/06 10:12:09


Post by: Vulcan


JSG wrote:
LOOK AT THE CHAINMAIL ON THAT DWARF! Disgusting.

Seriously though, why are people pretending that Elf doesn't look like an Elf? There's no way any of us would have mistaken it for anything else. I'd like the design to be a little more refined. Have the helm cover the cheeks, a noseguard, I might've given him scalemail. Overall I really like the stripped back, old school design and the boxes are great value.


Pretending? He looks like a human. There's nothing about that mini at all that says 'elf.

Not even ears.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/11/06 23:24:10


Post by: Psychopomp


I'm excited about the dwarves and the orc/goblins!

The elf bores me - for the same "It looks like someone messed up a Norman" reasons above.

That's...about all I got. But man, I *really* like those dwarves and goblins.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/11/06 23:44:19


Post by: StygianBeach


I like the elf.

I do agree it looks like it comes from a Elven civilization that is experiencing a bit of a dark age though.

The face looks like the 4th edition plastic Elf face, which gets my approval.

Fancier helms would be nice.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/11/06 23:53:13


Post by: Psychopomp


Maybe if those shoulder plates were a bit bigger, with connector plates between them and that front oval and a matching one in the back? Sort of a plate mantle/gorget down to the chest? I dunno.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/11/07 00:27:11


Post by: JSG


 Vulcan wrote:
JSG wrote:
LOOK AT THE CHAINMAIL ON THAT DWARF! Disgusting.

Seriously though, why are people pretending that Elf doesn't look like an Elf? There's no way any of us would have mistaken it for anything else. I'd like the design to be a little more refined. Have the helm cover the cheeks, a noseguard, I might've given him scalemail. Overall I really like the stripped back, old school design and the boxes are great value.


Pretending? He looks like a human. There's nothing about that mini at all that says 'elf.

Not even ears.


Yes, pretending. Elves look like humans with pointy ears. That's really it. It looks like just about every elf mini made during the 80's. Surprisingly, it's an elf.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/11/07 02:23:14


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


Which is why it is so important to demonstrate their inhuman character through their dress. For example, elves have keener senses, finer craftsmanship, patience for art, Grace and harmony with their physical and spiritual world. None of that shows up on Norman the Dive Elf there.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/11/07 02:50:08


Post by: insaniak


 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Is it just me, or does that Elf look like it has a moustache?

At a first glance, yeah, the painted version looks like he has a big, droopy blonde moustache.



Doesn't look like an Elf. Looks like a bad Asian caricature in quasi-European armour.






[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/11/07 02:50:23


Post by: NinthMusketeer


Honestly one look at those facial features and I immediately see elf. The issue doesn't seem like anything more than 'ahh it's different!' to me.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/11/07 03:47:10


Post by: lord marcus


MattW wrote:
 Zethnar wrote:
It was popular because it did a cheap, Mordheimy skirmish that let you use whatever minis you happened to have lying around.

The rules didn't have to be fantastic (in fact they weren't, a lot of the XP mechanics left a lot to be desired) but it was simple and fun enough to be worth the price of entry.

As for Oathmark, I'm loving both the Dwarf and the Goblin minis. I'm not sure about the combined factions stuff though. It would probably bother me less if it was monster races / humanoid races that can combine forces (order / chaos, light / dark, however you want to put it).


Hard agree on the combined factions. Though I suspect that many will be getting these for KoW or whatever else they play, and given that the minis seem to be coming out well before the rules, I'm pretty sure that North Star are hoping for this.

I'm most excited about the possibility of nice elves. I reckon the last decent (and affordable) sculpt of a basic elf spearman was the one from the 4th ed WHFB box. Mantic elves are... an acquired taste, and GW don't really produce affordable basic Elven infantry that could be used as 'goodies'(Lothern Sea Guard don't really count as affordable, IMO- but that might just be an Australian thing).




you and me are together on the elves front.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/11/07 14:23:57


Post by: Rosebuddy


Good quality miniatures for good value is always tempting. I might not be all over the throwback styles but it's fairly refreshing that they don't have a million fiddly bits and are kind of generic. They're much more broadly useful that way. I think they'll really reward even simple conversion work, too.

I like that they want to have rules for mixed armies. Fantasy wargames are too often just Race War with little interest in the mixing of cultures that would actually happen.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/11/07 14:37:20


Post by: Alpharius


 insaniak wrote:
 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Is it just me, or does that Elf look like it has a moustache?



Doesn't look like an Elf. Looks like a bad Asian caricature in quasi-European armour.



Yes, that just about sums it up for me too.

Missed opportunity here...


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/11/07 16:30:01


Post by: Iron_Captain


 Vulcan wrote:
JSG wrote:
LOOK AT THE CHAINMAIL ON THAT DWARF! Disgusting.

Seriously though, why are people pretending that Elf doesn't look like an Elf? There's no way any of us would have mistaken it for anything else. I'd like the design to be a little more refined. Have the helm cover the cheeks, a noseguard, I might've given him scalemail. Overall I really like the stripped back, old school design and the boxes are great value.


Pretending? He looks like a human. There's nothing about that mini at all that says 'elf.

Not even ears.

Uhm... Elves are supposed to look like humans you know. They literally are supposed to look like humans with pointy ears. All the other things that set them apart, such as immortality and great skill and grace, are kinda hard to capture in a miniature because they are immaterial. An expertly Elven-made coat of mail is going to look much the same as an ordinary Human-made coat of mail on a 28mm miniature, even if their qualities are quite different.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Which is why it is so important to demonstrate their inhuman character through their dress. For example, elves have keener senses, finer craftsmanship, patience for art, Grace and harmony with their physical and spiritual world. None of that shows up on Norman the Dive Elf there.

And how would you do that in a 28mm miniature while remaining loyal to Tolkien's practical Dark Age aesthetic? It is difficult to differentiate them from humans too much if you want to have classical Tolkien-inspired figures.
I guess you could give the elves scale mail or a more elaborate version of mirror plate armour and a slightly more elaborate helmet, but that would be about it.
And just to nitpick :p He does not look like a Norman. I have yet to see evidence of Normans wearing mirror plate armour. In fact, I think the only place in Europe where mirror plate was ever used was medieval Russia (it is originally an asian kind of armour).


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/11/07 17:25:00


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


Did Tolkien specify that Elves went to battle in chain mail tunics and those particular helms? If not, there is plenty of room to add decoration and innovation...but then you might end up with Peter Jackson elves or GW elves or some third thing which is also cool and distinct. If Tolkien did specify that elves dress exactly like humans, just buy some Gripping Beast historical minis and save some money. If you need the Asian Charicature face, Fireforge Mongols have you covered.

Really, though, if boring minis are the only way to properly portray Tolkien's vision, then maybe just drop him and read something else.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/11/07 17:47:40


Post by: Iron_Captain


 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Did Tolkien specify that Elves went to battle in chain mail tunics and those particular helms? If not, there is plenty of room to add decoration and innovation...but then you might end up with Peter Jackson elves or GW elves or some third thing which is also cool and distinct. If Tolkien did specify that elves dress exactly like humans, just buy some Gripping Beast historical minis and save some money. If you need the Asian Charicature face, Fireforge Mongols have you covered.

Really, though, if boring minis are the only way to properly portray Tolkien's vision, then maybe just drop him and read something else.

Given that Tolkien's writings consistently mention 'coats of mail', yes he did. Tolkien did specify a Dark Age/Early Medieval theme for Middle Earth.
And calling Peter Jackson elves or GW elves distinct is just weird, given the fact that everyone and their grandmother has copied and been inspired by those designs. Dark Age elves are in fact a lot more distinct. If you don't like that design then you can just buy GW WHFB or LotR elves.
And no. Buying historical miniatures won't do. Tolkien's world was inspired by history, but it was not the same. Elves aren't the same thing as norsemen or saxons, even if they both wear a coat of mail. It is like saying you should just buy WW2 miniatures if you want to play Imperial Guard in 40k.
I am going to wait until I see the possibilities of the sprue before I am going to comment on whether they are distinct enough as elves or not, but I like that they are sticking to a Dark Age aesthetic. Great for when I ever get around to making some nice Dark Age fantasy armies.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/11/07 20:11:04


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


 Iron_Captain wrote:
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Did Tolkien specify that Elves went to battle in chain mail tunics and those particular helms? If not, there is plenty of room to add decoration and innovation...but then you might end up with Peter Jackson elves or GW elves or some third thing which is also cool and distinct. If Tolkien did specify that elves dress exactly like humans, just buy some Gripping Beast historical minis and save some money. If you need the Asian Charicature face, Fireforge Mongols have you covered.

Really, though, if boring minis are the only way to properly portray Tolkien's vision, then maybe just drop him and read something else.

Given that Tolkien's writings consistently mention 'coats of mail', yes he did. Tolkien did specify a Dark Age/Early Medieval theme for Middle Earth.
And calling Peter Jackson elves or GW elves distinct is just weird, given the fact that everyone and their grandmother has copied and been inspired by those designs. Dark Age elves are in fact a lot more distinct. If you don't like that design then you can just buy GW WHFB or LotR elves.
And no. Buying historical miniatures won't do. Tolkien's world was inspired by history, but it was not the same. Elves aren't the same thing as norsemen or saxons, even if they both wear a coat of mail. It is like saying you should just buy WW2 miniatures if you want to play Imperial Guard in 40k.
I am going to wait until I see the possibilities of the sprue before I am going to comment on whether they are distinct enough as elves or not, but I like that they are sticking to a Dark Age aesthetic. Great for when I ever get around to making some nice Dark Age fantasy armies.


Well, I didn't remember those references. I concede then. I'm glad you will finally have the elves that live up to your vision of them.

For the record, I do buy Ww2 miniatures to sci fi up. It makes them look like c1990's budget space troopers, like out of Babylon 5.



[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/11/07 20:28:00


Post by: Vulcan


If these elves look good and elfy to you, more power to you. Buy them to your heart's content.

I will not be, as to my eyes they look more faux-historical Norman than anything else.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/11/07 20:50:34


Post by: Theophony


 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
 Iron_Captain wrote:
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Did Tolkien specify that Elves went to battle in chain mail tunics and those particular helms? If not, there is plenty of room to add decoration and innovation...but then you might end up with Peter Jackson elves or GW elves or some third thing which is also cool and distinct. If Tolkien did specify that elves dress exactly like humans, just buy some Gripping Beast historical minis and save some money. If you need the Asian Charicature face, Fireforge Mongols have you covered.

Really, though, if boring minis are the only way to properly portray Tolkien's vision, then maybe just drop him and read something else.

Given that Tolkien's writings consistently mention 'coats of mail', yes he did. Tolkien did specify a Dark Age/Early Medieval theme for Middle Earth.
And calling Peter Jackson elves or GW elves distinct is just weird, given the fact that everyone and their grandmother has copied and been inspired by those designs. Dark Age elves are in fact a lot more distinct. If you don't like that design then you can just buy GW WHFB or LotR elves.
And no. Buying historical miniatures won't do. Tolkien's world was inspired by history, but it was not the same. Elves aren't the same thing as norsemen or saxons, even if they both wear a coat of mail. It is like saying you should just buy WW2 miniatures if you want to play Imperial Guard in 40k.
I am going to wait until I see the possibilities of the sprue before I am going to comment on whether they are distinct enough as elves or not, but I like that they are sticking to a Dark Age aesthetic. Great for when I ever get around to making some nice Dark Age fantasy armies.


Well, I didn't remember those references. I concede then. I'm glad you will finally have the elves that live up to your vision of them.

For the record, I do buy Ww2 miniatures to sci fi up. It makes them look like c1990's budget space troopers, like out of Babylon 5.


Don’t ditz Babylon 5. Or my homie and I will have to come over and in 5 minutes I’ll be the only one in the room still standing


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/11/08 00:40:38


Post by: Prestor Jon


If anyone here already has the dwarves in hand can I impose on you for a height measurement of them? I got a bunch of dwarves from the last RBG KS coming my way and if these dwarves are close enough in scale I’ll get some to grow my large war and into a small army.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/11/08 07:23:10


Post by: Albertorius


Huh, they all look good to me, tbh. And seeing as the first thing I thought when I saw the elf was "hey, an elf", I'd say it worked for me. At the very least I think I'll be buying one box of each for RPG purposes.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/11/08 18:24:36


Post by: Zywus


Some pics shown of the gobbos based and painted:






[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/11/08 19:05:40


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


Is there a scale shot of them next to another company's miniatures?

Looks like they're either really tiny or standing on ogre bases.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/11/08 19:29:14


Post by: Galas


Well, they are goblins.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/11/08 19:30:41


Post by: MattW


They are small- but the only scale shot so far is next to the Oathmark Dwarfs. They’re also on 25mm bases, which won’t be helping...


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/11/08 20:11:24


Post by: Zywus


I prefer my goblins smaller rather than larger anyway.

If they're on 25mm squares though, that explain why they might look smaller than expected.

While 5mm in each direction doesn't sound like much; the area of a 25mm square base is more than a 50% increase from the area of a 20mm square one.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/11/08 22:36:39


Post by: Pacific


Look quite cool, make me think a little bit of the Mantic orks (in that they're quite understated)

Nice pics Zywus, do you have any that are a higher resolution/a bit bigger?


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/11/08 22:41:14


Post by: Zywus


 Pacific wrote:
Look quite cool, make me think a little bit of the Mantic orks (in that they're quite understated)

Nice pics Zywus, do you have any that are a higher resolution/a bit bigger?

Yea, I feel they would fit very well with the Mantic orcs. (Which is good, since the mantic HIPS goblins aren't great)

There's bigger pics on Northstars facebook page I think.
I linked these from the Tabletop Fix blog. You can click them to see them in bigger resolution
http://ttfix.blogspot.se/2017/11/north-star-military-figures-new_8.html


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/11/08 22:58:29


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


 Pacific wrote:
Look quite cool, make me think a little bit of the Mantic orks (in that they're quite understated)

Nice pics Zywus, do you have any that are a higher resolution/a bit bigger?


Great observation. They look like they would go great with Mantic orcs.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/11/09 04:13:43


Post by: lord marcus


MattW wrote:
 pancakeonions wrote:
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
There's a Kickstarter for plastic elves restarting soon, and the difference is immense. Those elves might borrow more from GW than Tolkien, but they are clearly elves, and they look like they can justify their smug mugs far more than the Ren Faire Souvenir Vendor up above.


Whose kickstarter is this? I'd like to keep an eye out for it.

I think the elf is OK. Nothing awesome, but not bad.

But yea, the goblin/orc is great!


I think he’s talking about the Last Sword one. They’re much more Peter Jackson-style, and in a kind of restic rather than HIPS.


my issue with lastsword is they tend to be expensive per model, which denudes the point of making models realistically looking to be used in a massed ranks wargame.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/11/09 04:24:53


Post by: ArtIsGreat


I like gobbos, but not feeling these tough guy gobbos. Like a fat elf or a tall dwarf, if it's not sticking to the stereotype it feels wrong


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/11/09 07:50:16


Post by: StygianBeach


I have put together a few Mantic Orcs and I do not see the connection.

I like that they are small, but they really look far to competent and intimidating to be Goblins.

Maybe Goblins by another name?


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/11/09 16:16:57


Post by: Iron_Captain


They should be intimidating if they are aiming for a classical fantasy theme. Goblins used to be just a synonym for Orcs, as in the works of Tolkien.
It is only later works of fantasy (D&D maybe?) that made orcs and goblins into separate creatures with goblins being smaller and weaker.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/11/09 16:50:17


Post by: tgmoore


I really like the gobos and dwarfs. Most curious about what the human faction will look like.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/11/09 17:07:02


Post by: Theophony


 tgmoore wrote:
I really like the gobos and dwarfs. Most curious about what the human faction will look like.


I’m guessing tall, thin and having point ears given how the elves look like humans.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/11/09 17:19:35


Post by: pancakeonions


LOL

I'm looking forward to seeing the Orcs - given how their goblins look like mini-Mantic Orcs! (maybe they'll also look tall, thin and have pointy ears?)


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/11/09 21:19:31


Post by: MattW


 tgmoore wrote:
I really like the gobos and dwarfs. Most curious about what the human faction will look like.


I’m thinking that we’ll see some winged helms, mail hauberks, and kite shields.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/11/09 23:00:18


Post by: StygianBeach


 Iron_Captain wrote:
They should be intimidating if they are aiming for a classical fantasy theme. Goblins used to be just a synonym for Orcs, as in the works of Tolkien.
It is only later works of fantasy (D&D maybe?) that made orcs and goblins into separate creatures with goblins being smaller and weaker.


I realise that in Tolkien Goblins and Orcs are the same thing, the animated Return of the King makes a point of stating this clearly.
Although I must admit, when I first read the Hobbit this was not clear to me at all, and Goblins and Orcs seemed like different things.

Unless I am mistaken, I thought Tolkien was the first to apply the word Orc to Goblins?
I agree with you, in that I think it was D&D which separated the Orc and Goblin in the 70's, which would mean (if my previous thought is true) they were the same thing for about 20 years, and have been different things for about 50 years now.

Of course, none of this is at all factual as I am discussing fictional creature across different fictional settings. So I am not even sure I can make a point.

I think I would be have been happier if they were called Orc runts or something, of course it is not as confusing as Godslayer. In that setting Orcs are called Troglodytes and Goblins are called Gnolls.

I will probably get some anyway... I will just call them some other name.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/11/16 20:45:46


Post by: Nostromodamus


I REALLY want to go all in, but no coin...


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/11/17 13:37:42


Post by: Iron_Captain


 StygianBeach wrote:
 Iron_Captain wrote:
They should be intimidating if they are aiming for a classical fantasy theme. Goblins used to be just a synonym for Orcs, as in the works of Tolkien.
It is only later works of fantasy (D&D maybe?) that made orcs and goblins into separate creatures with goblins being smaller and weaker.


I realise that in Tolkien Goblins and Orcs are the same thing, the animated Return of the King makes a point of stating this clearly.
Although I must admit, when I first read the Hobbit this was not clear to me at all, and Goblins and Orcs seemed like different things.

Unless I am mistaken, I thought Tolkien was the first to apply the word Orc to Goblins?
I agree with you, in that I think it was D&D which separated the Orc and Goblin in the 70's, which would mean (if my previous thought is true) they were the same thing for about 20 years, and have been different things for about 50 years now.

Of course, none of this is at all factual as I am discussing fictional creature across different fictional settings. So I am not even sure I can make a point.

I think I would be have been happier if they were called Orc runts or something, of course it is not as confusing as Godslayer. In that setting Orcs are called Troglodytes and Goblins are called Gnolls.

I will probably get some anyway... I will just call them some other name.

Yeah, I also thought Goblins were different from Orcs when I first read the Hobbit. Only later I learned that 'orc' is the word for goblin in the language of the Rohirrim and of the Hobbits and that Tolkien invented it (wel, he did not invent the word, but he did invent the concept we associate it with nowadays). Same thing with Uruks. At first I thought Uruks were different from ordinary Orcs (and that is how the movies portray them) but uruk is simply the word for orc in Black Speech.

Personally, I like it when Orcs and Goblins are different things. It brings more variety.
It is a big shame that I am all out of money after the Joan of Arc kickstarter. Otherwise I would have definitely jumped in on this.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/11/17 14:00:48


Post by: Inquisitor Gideon


 Iron_Captain wrote:
 StygianBeach wrote:
 Iron_Captain wrote:
They should be intimidating if they are aiming for a classical fantasy theme. Goblins used to be just a synonym for Orcs, as in the works of Tolkien.
It is only later works of fantasy (D&D maybe?) that made orcs and goblins into separate creatures with goblins being smaller and weaker.


I realise that in Tolkien Goblins and Orcs are the same thing, the animated Return of the King makes a point of stating this clearly.
Although I must admit, when I first read the Hobbit this was not clear to me at all, and Goblins and Orcs seemed like different things.

Unless I am mistaken, I thought Tolkien was the first to apply the word Orc to Goblins?
I agree with you, in that I think it was D&D which separated the Orc and Goblin in the 70's, which would mean (if my previous thought is true) they were the same thing for about 20 years, and have been different things for about 50 years now.

Of course, none of this is at all factual as I am discussing fictional creature across different fictional settings. So I am not even sure I can make a point.

I think I would be have been happier if they were called Orc runts or something, of course it is not as confusing as Godslayer. In that setting Orcs are called Troglodytes and Goblins are called Gnolls.

I will probably get some anyway... I will just call them some other name.

Yeah, I also thought Goblins were different from Orcs when I first read the Hobbit. Only later I learned that 'orc' is the word for goblin in the language of the Rohirrim and of the Hobbits and that Tolkien invented it (wel, he did not invent the word, but he did invent the concept we associate it with nowadays). Same thing with Uruks. At first I thought Uruks were different from ordinary Orcs (and that is how the movies portray them) but uruk is simply the word for orc in Black Speech.

Personally, I like it when Orcs and Goblins are different things. It brings more variety.
It is a big shame that I am all out of money after the Joan of Arc kickstarter. Otherwise I would have definitely jumped in on this.


Not entirely correct. The Uruks you see in the movie are Uruk-hai (same as in the book), which are somewhat different from ordinary orcs. Being bred as larger and more powerful than ordinary orcs. Also being described as almost as tall and broad shouldered as men. Same as the Olog-hai (the trolls) which were described as being the biggest and most powerful that had ever been bred. Also resistant enough to sunlight as to not turn to stone in it's presence.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/11/17 19:44:21


Post by: pancakeonions


Who does NorthStar preorders in the US again? I think I have to pick up a box of those goblins...


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/11/17 19:49:28


Post by: Llamahead


Brigade models if I remember rightly. I'm in the same boat as you Iron Captain.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/11/17 20:50:40


Post by: pancakeonions


Rats... Nothing at Brigade about this preorder...


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/11/17 20:54:36


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


 pancakeonions wrote:
Rats... Nothing at Brigade about this preorder...


Well, if it's handled at all like the Frostgrave plastics' American distribution, you'll soon have those goblins in your hands. In 15 months. After elbowing out the the three other customers in the FLGS reaching for the same only-box-in-the-store.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/12/09 21:02:44


Post by: Commissar-Danno


Well we got the Dwarfs and Goblins out of the way. Any word on the elves or men in the works besides that one test model for elves?


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/12/10 02:42:26


Post by: -iPaint-


 Commissar-Danno wrote:
Well we got the Dwarfs and Goblins out of the way. Any word on the elves or men in the works besides that one test model for elves?


Ugh, hope they revisit that design. It was so bland.

~iPaint


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2017/12/10 17:48:08


Post by: judgedoug


Oathmark Goblins review/comparison to SBG models

https://paintsngluenrocknroll.blogspot.co.uk/2017/12/oathmark-goblins-review.html

Looks like I may get some to use for Angmar orcs


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/17 22:07:52


Post by: corgan


New plastic elves pics:











[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/17 22:52:24


Post by: Albino Squirrel


Fairly mediocre, but there's no harm in having more options for generic fantasy humans.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/17 22:57:03


Post by: Iron_Captain


They look neat. I like how they look like the illustrations from the Silmarillion. They will be perfect for classical fantasy RPGs. I think I am going to pick a box up for Forbidden Lands.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/18 00:16:02


Post by: Zywus


The mail could do with more depth in the sculpting.

I'm afraid the detail will be lost rather easy even by a simple undercoat.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/18 00:29:08


Post by: Voss


 Zywus wrote:
The mail could do with more depth in the sculpting.

I'm afraid the detail will be lost rather easy even by a simple undercoat.


Bigger problem is that it's horribly uneven. Below the chest piece and at the bottom edge it's very deep, but below the belt it's shallow to the point of nonexistence.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/18 01:53:33


Post by: MattW


These are apparently test sprues, and the mould will be further refined. I'm hoping and praying that it means that they sort out the mail.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/18 15:39:06


Post by: Rosebuddy


The dwarfs and goblins are fine so these elves will likely be fine as well. The people responsible are clearly competent.

I think these look quite alright. They’re low-key without being bland. I fear I will buy at least two boxes.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 0020/01/18 15:55:44


Post by: Gallahad


"See Bobby, you know they're Elves because they wear feathers!"

These look to be both boring and of middling quality. Also, I hate the integrated plastic surfboards they are standing on.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/18 15:59:59


Post by: Not-not-kenny


I wasn't sure of the elves at first but I really like them. I like that they look fairly subdued compared to most fantasy elf minis but still have a certain style to them.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/18 16:48:37


Post by: Rosebuddy


 Gallahad wrote:
"See Bobby, you know they're Elves because they wear feathers!"

These look to be both boring and of middling quality. Also, I hate the integrated plastic surfboards they are standing on.


The integrated bases can just be cut off. I'm not sure why they're included in the designs, particularly since you get separate bases with the boxes. Maybe the built-in small bases appeal to, I don't know, tabletop RPG fans? It's a very common design choice for historical miniatures as well. I suppose it could just be inherited from tin soldiers.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/18 17:45:18


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


Rosebuddy wrote:
The dwarfs and goblins are fine so these elves will likely be fine as well. The people responsible are clearly competent.

I think these look quite alright. They’re low-key without being bland. I fear I will buy at least two boxes.


Have they released the dwarf and goblin sets already? Are there any scale shots with other brand miniatures?


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/18 18:02:01


Post by: highlord tamburlaine


Dwarf and goblins are in the wild. I know since I got sniped on auctions for both.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/18 18:50:12


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
Dwarf and goblins are in the wild. I know since I got sniped on auctions for both.


Auctions? Are they not easily found in the FLGS? Is this Frostgrave barbarians all over again?


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/18 18:57:32


Post by: highlord tamburlaine


I think that's just Northstar's models in general.

They've got issues with their distribution, as the major suppliers don't want to carry them or something.

As Frostgrave is just a drop in the pan or something. I dunno.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/18 20:02:28


Post by: Rosebuddy


 BobtheInquisitor wrote:


Have they released the dwarf and goblin sets already? Are there any scale shots with other brand miniatures?



Both are released. The dwarfs were released before Christmas, the goblins earlier this month. The goblins are pretty much the same size as a GW LotR orc, just with more heroic proportioned weaponry. The dwarfs are as tall as the goblins. I'm pretty sure they're bigger than WHFB dwarfs, tho mainly because they have legs with real knees.

http://paintsngluenrocknroll.blogspot.se/2017/12/oathmark-goblins-review.html


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/18 20:41:02


Post by: RazorEdge


After Elves and Humans, we will see Undead too!


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/18 22:21:18


Post by: antohammer


I dont like the frontal plate armour and the armour on the shoulder.... do you like em??? O.o


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/19 00:14:22


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


antohammer wrote:
I dont like the frontal plate armour and the armour on the shoulder.... do you like em??? O.o


I like them, but I am a sucker for that Medieval Times Dinner and Tournament look.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/19 00:19:03


Post by: Gallahad


Rosebuddy wrote:
 Gallahad wrote:
"See Bobby, you know they're Elves because they wear feathers!"

These look to be both boring and of middling quality. Also, I hate the integrated plastic surfboards they are standing on.


The integrated bases can just be cut off. I'm not sure why they're included in the designs, particularly since you get separate bases with the boxes. Maybe the built-in small bases appeal to, I don't know, tabletop RPG fans? It's a very common design choice for historical miniatures as well. I suppose it could just be inherited from tin soldiers.


They can be cut off, but not without a lot of labor, and a threat of snapping some ankles or having feet/boots that aren't level on the bottom. At least, that was my experience with the frostgrave plastics.

I really dislike the weird thick decorative plate they have hanging from their necks. Why not just put them in a breastplate?


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/19 02:03:54


Post by: Vulcan


I think these elves look a LOT better than that goofy-looking test elf from earlier.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/19 08:47:03


Post by: Huginn


 Gallahad wrote:
Also, I hate the integrated plastic surfboards they are standing on.


I thought that at first, but it's really easy to build up your terrain around the plastic tab. Mix pva (white) glue and sand into a paste, like gritty wet toothpaste, smear it on with an old brush or cocktail stick. Let it dry. Prime as usual, paint and decorate base as usual.



[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/19 15:08:03


Post by: highlord tamburlaine


I might try that Huginn.

I always put the white glue on the base first and then dip them into the seemingly neverending container of sand I've got. Wonder if it's any easier...


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/19 15:40:03


Post by: Rosebuddy


Apparently this is the general look they'll be going for with the humans.





http://www.beastsofwar.com/oathmark-battles-of-the-lost-age/ospreys-gathers-warband-elves-plastic/


I wasn't at all looking forward to them doing humans but while this is still fairly generic fantasy at least it manages to look a little different. I'm really into the rectangular shield.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/19 17:46:32


Post by: Albino Squirrel


So, their goblins look like orcs, their elves look like humans, and their humans look like dwarfs?


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/19 17:48:19


Post by: Huginn


I quite like the human prototype, it has a celt/briton/pict look that appeals to me. The goblins I liked, good additions to a Mordor force at any rate. The dwarfs I passed on because too many hooded heads for me, not keen on the gnome aesthetic. The elves I need to see the frames before I decide - I can't decide if they are bland or generic as yet. I like my old metal 90's GW elves and have some Thunderbolt Mountain stuff too, so it's a high bar that I don't think these plastics will reach - and to be fair they are not really meant to compete with metals. However, if I was in the market for some low fantasy stuff, I might be intrigued. Quite a few guys on leadadventure are excited by them, apparently they fit Tolkien's aesthetic (or their own vision of it)!

It's good to see the range growing though. A few years back there was just GW, then mantic entered the scene, there's quite a few smaller indies around, and now these guys seem to be pumping them out at quite a rate. Whether you like them or not, it has to be good that there is such a wide range to choose from.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/19 19:30:34


Post by: antohammer


 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
antohammer wrote:
I dont like the frontal plate armour and the armour on the shoulder.... do you like em??? O.o


I like them, but I am a sucker for that Medieval Times Dinner and Tournament look.


ah ... not my stiyle... I prefere those made from momminiaturas ... and what about humans??? I hoped for something like gondor or doll amrot... T . T


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/20 00:25:40


Post by: Vulcan


It looks to me like a Celt with salvaged Roman gear.

Since that's how many Celts got their gear, this works for me alongside more typically Celtic models.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/20 01:01:55


Post by: Iron_Captain


 Vulcan wrote:
It looks to me like a Celt with salvaged Roman gear.

Since that's how many Celts got their gear, this works for me alongside more typically Celtic models.

Actually, a lot of Roman equipment was of Celtic origin...


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/20 04:54:31


Post by: Aesthete


Personally I'm liking what I see so far... old school low fantasy. I got some of the Dwarves and I believe I'll get some Elves and Humans too... I may even check out the rules too.

What if anything do we know about the rules so far?


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/20 09:07:52


Post by: Huginn


There's an Oathmark facebook page, mostly previews of upcoming minis but they did mention rules a few months back. There was a mini rules FAQ.

https://www.facebook.com/Oathmark/photos/a.1849091175120321.1073741832.1714950415201065/1849091615120277/?type=3&theater

There's also an Oathmark player group, strange but true given the lack of a game. Maybe that has rules snippets, don't know cos I didn't join.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/20 22:12:37


Post by: Zywus


Apparently there's some female plastics upcoming too.



[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/20 22:13:41


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


I hope they don't look like gnomes.

I am tentatively excited, reservedly on the edge of my seat.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/20 23:50:20


Post by: Theophony


 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I hope they don't look like gnomes.

I am tentatively excited, reservedly on the edge of my seat.


Nope, just looks like gnolls


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/21 02:54:43


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


 Zywus wrote:
Apparently there's some female plastics upcoming too.




Worth noting the females will be for Frostgrave rather than Oathmark


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/21 13:27:22


Post by: Zywus


 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
 Zywus wrote:
Apparently there's some female plastics upcoming too.


Worth noting the females will be for Frostgrave rather than Oathmark

True. But they should be usable for the latter as well. Although possibly best used as militia or similar, rather than professional soldiery due to the presumably more rag-tag appearance of a Frostgrave kit.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/22 06:53:08


Post by: lord marcus


is everyone annoyed they can't buy from distributors because distributors (or the FLGS they sell to) give a discount, over buying them straight from the source?


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/22 10:10:12


Post by: RazorEdge


We will see Halflings maybe too.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/22 10:57:38


Post by: MattW


RazorEdge wrote:
We will see Halflings maybe too.


If you’re going off the Facebook comment, it looks like a joke to me?


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/24 17:14:02


Post by: Rosebuddy


Various broadly applicable cavalry models are inevitable, provided that the line as a whole sells well enough.

What I personally would like to see is unarmoured infantry, berserkers and various animal handlers. A dwarven war beasts box with some beastmasters plus bears and hunting dogs or whatever would be nice.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/24 17:25:04


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


Several down-to-earth cavalry types sound like a good investment. Realistic infantry types, too. In fact, they should only create miniatures in direct competition with established historical miniature ranges from now on. Success is inevitable.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/24 18:15:14


Post by: Albino Squirrel


Yeah, I think they may be overestimating how well these are going to sell. Those are some grand plans they have for ranges that don't seem that popular.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/24 18:33:06


Post by: highlord tamburlaine


That can obviously be rectified by introducing a reptile faction.

How many plastic reptilian infantry kits are on the market these days that aren't made by GW?

...exactly.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/24 18:53:49


Post by: Annie


It's beautiful seeing that "Annie is right" quote all over the internet...muahahaha.


-Annie


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/24 18:59:52


Post by: Gallahad




BobtheInquisitor wrote:Several down-to-earth cavalry types sound like a good investment. Realistic infantry types, too. In fact, they should only create miniatures in direct competition with established historical miniature ranges from now on. Success is inevitable.


Albino Squirrel wrote:Yeah, I think they may be overestimating how well these are going to sell. Those are some grand plans they have for ranges that don't seem that popular.


What do you guys mean? Oathmark will be the only player in the 25mm plastic guy with chain mail and sword market. And feathers! Don't forget the feathers.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/24 20:11:03


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
That can obviously be rectified by introducing a reptile faction.

How many plastic reptilian infantry kits are on the market these days that aren't made by GW?

...exactly.


This may be the "Let's change the name to National Biscuit Company" of pseudo-historical fantasy minis. You deserve the million dollars.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Galahad, I assure you the feathers will never be forgotten.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/24 21:21:22


Post by: bubber


 Annie wrote:
It's beautiful seeing that "Annie is right" quote all over the internet...muahahaha.


-Annie

I just want to ask, Annie - are you ok?


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/24 21:59:19


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


 bubber wrote:
 Annie wrote:
It's beautiful seeing that "Annie is right" quote all over the internet...muahahaha.


-Annie

I just want to ask, Annie - are you ok?



Exalted so hard chrome shut a window with a crescendo.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/24 22:21:22


Post by: MattW


Something tells me that you guys aren't exactly the target market here...


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/25 17:33:05


Post by: Rosebuddy


 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Several down-to-earth cavalry types sound like a good investment. Realistic infantry types, too. In fact, they should only create miniatures in direct competition with established historical miniature ranges from now on. Success is inevitable.


How do goblins, dwarfs and elves compete with historical miniatures? I mean, I'm all for orcish doppelsöldner and elven pikemen but those still wouldn't strictly compete with historicals.

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
That can obviously be rectified by introducing a reptile faction.

How many plastic reptilian infantry kits are on the market these days that aren't made by GW?

...exactly.


Lizardmen would be excellent, yes.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/25 17:56:32


Post by: judgedoug


I think you guys are vastly underestimating the market that exists that doesn't post ITT on Dakka.

Otherwise all of the other companies wouldn't continue to pump out plastic kits for this stuff...

I don't think Perry, Fireforge, Gripping Beast, Warlord, Plastic Soldier Company, North Star, Victrix are making plastic kits on charity. There's a TON of stuff available now. Generic fantasy was inevitable, about about a legion of grognards will buy these to put in their closets and garages...


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/25 18:36:37


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


Rosebuddy wrote:
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Several down-to-earth cavalry types sound like a good investment. Realistic infantry types, too. In fact, they should only create miniatures in direct competition with established historical miniature ranges from now on. Success is inevitable.


How do goblins, dwarfs and elves compete with historical miniatures? I mean, I'm all for orcish doppelsöldner and elven pikemen but those still wouldn't strictly compete with historicals.

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
That can obviously be rectified by introducing a reptile faction.

How many plastic reptilian infantry kits are on the market these days that aren't made by GW?

...exactly.


Lizardmen would be excellent, yes.


The goblins are the only Oathmark kit I've seen so far that I would buy. The dwarfs are fairly boring, and have to compete with more exciting plastics from GW, EM4, Mantic and AoW, and soon Conquest. The elves are ...let's say easy to proxy with historical minis if you like their Oathmark design. And they are also competing with many, many kits. The human minis look dumpy and gnome like--if you armed them with shoes you'd have an army of Coco's Abuelitas. I have a hard time imagining the customer who chooses Oathmark's humans over their Frostgrave, Conquest, Mantic, Runewars, CMON, or cheaper historical equivalents.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 judgedoug wrote:
I think you guys are vastly underestimating the market that exists that doesn't post ITT on Dakka.

Otherwise all of the other companies wouldn't continue to pump out plastic kits for this stuff...

I don't think Perry, Fireforge, Gripping Beast, Warlord, Plastic Soldier Company, North Star, Victrix are making plastic kits on charity. There's a TON of stuff available now. Generic fantasy was inevitable, about about a legion of grognards will buy these to put in their closets and garages...


Hope you're right for Oathmark's sake. However, is there a lot of overlap with historical mini "whales" and customers looking for elves and dwarfs?


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/25 19:21:40


Post by: Rosebuddy


There are definitely people who like the dwarfs' simpler look. Even without that, the Oathmark dwarfs are cheaper than GW and AoW, and are multi-part unlike the EM4 ones. Mantic is closer in value and they've got their own style so that's a matter of taste. I haven't found anything about Conquest dwarfs.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/25 20:15:10


Post by: Pacific


The very first concept art has appeared of the Conquest dwarves, if you look in the latest news thread over there. They are a much more radical looking dwarf, I don't think likely to look much like these guys.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/25 22:01:40


Post by: Aesthete


 judgedoug wrote:
I think you guys are vastly underestimating the market that exists that doesn't post ITT on Dakka.

Otherwise all of the other companies wouldn't continue to pump out plastic kits for this stuff...

I don't think Perry, Fireforge, Gripping Beast, Warlord, Plastic Soldier Company, North Star, Victrix are making plastic kits on charity. There's a TON of stuff available now. Generic fantasy was inevitable, about a legion of grognards will buy these to put in their closets and garages...


Yup, many of us will.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/25 23:05:14


Post by: Vulcan


 Iron_Captain wrote:
 Vulcan wrote:
It looks to me like a Celt with salvaged Roman gear.

Since that's how many Celts got their gear, this works for me alongside more typically Celtic models.

Actually, a lot of Roman equipment was of Celtic origin...


Fair point. The Romans took military equipment from everywhere and made it their own.

But I'm pretty certain that helmet with the reinforced brow was a strictly Roman invention after fighting the Macedonians and their falcatta.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/26 02:01:11


Post by: Iron_Captain


 Vulcan wrote:
 Iron_Captain wrote:
 Vulcan wrote:
It looks to me like a Celt with salvaged Roman gear.

Since that's how many Celts got their gear, this works for me alongside more typically Celtic models.

Actually, a lot of Roman equipment was of Celtic origin...


Fair point. The Romans took military equipment from everywhere and made it their own.

But I'm pretty certain that helmet with the reinforced brow was a strictly Roman invention after fighting the Macedonians and their falcatta.

Yes and no. The helmets with the reinforced brows are referred to as 'imperial-type helmets' (of which there are several sub-types). They too originate with the Celtic peoples of Gaul and not with the Romans (the ancient Gauls were much better smiths than the Romans were, up to the point that we can determine whether a Roman legionary helmet was a true Gaulish-made one or a cheap Roman copy-cat version, though the Roman work does improve over time). The brows themselves are a Roman invention though, resulting from field modifications made during the Dacian Wars when the Romans faced the Dacians and their falx weapons (not the Macedonians. The Romans defeated the Macedonians much earlier in their history, long before the imperial-type helmet was developed. Also, the Macedonians used the kopis, which was very similar to but not the same as the Iberian falcatta). The falx must have been an extremely nasty weapon, because encountering it is the only thing that ever made the Roman army change its equipment while on campaign. Apart from adding the supporting bars to their helmets, they also switched back to using chainmail and scale mail instead of the segmented plate armour that had become standard and added shoulder and arm guards to their equipment. Those weapons must have really scared them... So while the helmet is of Celtic origin, the brow is of Roman origin.
Thus concludes the history lesson


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/26 04:32:09


Post by: Vulcan


My mistake. I got my 'weapons that start with an F' mixed up...


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/30 23:55:42


Post by: corgan


The elf sprue has been revealed (from Oathmark's) facebook page:



[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/31 01:22:58


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


The feathers are separate, and they have enough swords, spears and bows for everyone, so the kit has already beaten my expectations. How do they stack up, size wise?


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/31 07:52:22


Post by: NuhJuhKuh


I really like these - they remind me of (ahem) *classic* High Elves, but with better proportions and pose-ability. Plastic cavalry and warmachines in the same style would be awesome!


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/31 08:24:07


Post by: StygianBeach


I am in. 5 bodies, 10 heads and enough weapons for everyone.

These are gonna look great next to my 90's Elves.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/31 11:32:31


Post by: Huginn


They do look pretty decent. Not sure they will scale with WHFB figures, the scale is more akin to the Lord of the Rings range. So more like 25-28mm rather than 30-32mm. At least, that's how the goblins were scaled.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/31 11:51:26


Post by: Rosebuddy


When they said that the feathers would be removable I took it to mean that only some helmets would have feathers, which would be sculpted to be easy to cut off. That you get five separate feather accessories is a nice little step up from the previous sets.

I'm still disappointed that bits for a musician still aren't included. I'd happily swap the champion weapon arm for a horn.

 Huginn wrote:
They do look pretty decent. Not sure they will scale with WHFB figures, the scale is more akin to the Lord of the Rings range. So more like 25-28mm rather than 30-32mm. At least, that's how the goblins were scaled.


The goblins match nicely with the LotR orcs but have chunkier weapons. LotR dwarfs only come up to about the shoulders of Oathmark dwarfs. But yes, 25-28mm rather than 30-32mm is accurate. They're heroic miniatures but not to the same degree as current GW. Oathmark goblins would work fine as WHFB goblins despite being much bigger because they still fit the whole S3 T3 size profile, at slightly shorter than a 28mm human.

Older GW plastics are mostly going to be chunkier. The ape-armed HE spearmen would look quite off next to these but they were always a bit odd.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/31 11:55:03


Post by: NuhJuhKuh


I know these sets come with 25mm bases, but would they fit on 20mm?


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/31 13:23:39


Post by: Rosebuddy


NuhJuhKuh wrote:
I know these sets come with 25mm bases, but would they fit on 20mm?


If the dwarfs and goblins are any indication, yes. The elves seem to be a little bit wider in their stances and have bigger shields but I don't think they would be cramped given how roomy their 25mm bases look.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/01/31 16:14:22


Post by: Psychopomp



Okay, the final version has grown on me. This kit is just begging for a conversion kit with bladed pauldrons and more wicked looking helmets/heads. Maybe some crueler swords and speartips. Because I haven't seen a good, affordable plastic Dark Elf kit in a long time.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/02/01 01:37:25


Post by: kestral


Hands attached to weapons is always a plus for me.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/02/01 12:11:05


Post by: NuhJuhKuh


Awesome! Did they give any indication of a timeframe for that? Generally I'm happy not to have Facebook, but for little things like this it would be handy :p


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/02/01 13:21:00


Post by: endtransmission


They did a few mail order add-ons for Frostgrave, so I could see them adding things like standards and musician arms via those over time, though those specialists tend to be metal if the dwarf and goblin ranges are anything to go by


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/02/01 16:27:43


Post by: Carlovonsexron


 Iron_Captain wrote:
 Vulcan wrote:
 Iron_Captain wrote:
 Vulcan wrote:
It looks to me like a Celt with salvaged Roman gear.

Since that's how many Celts got their gear, this works for me alongside more typically Celtic models.

Actually, a lot of Roman equipment was of Celtic origin...


Fair point. The Romans took military equipment from everywhere and made it their own.

But I'm pretty certain that helmet with the reinforced brow was a strictly Roman invention after fighting the Macedonians and their falcatta.

Yes and no. The helmets with the reinforced brows are referred to as 'imperial-type helmets' (of which there are several sub-types). They too originate with the Celtic peoples of Gaul and not with the Romans (the ancient Gauls were much better smiths than the Romans were, up to the point that we can determine whether a Roman legionary helmet was a true Gaulish-made one or a cheap Roman copy-cat version, though the Roman work does improve over time). The brows themselves are a Roman invention though, resulting from field modifications made during the Dacian Wars when the Romans faced the Dacians and their falx weapons (not the Macedonians. The Romans defeated the Macedonians much earlier in their history, long before the imperial-type helmet was developed. Also, the Macedonians used the kopis, which was very similar to but not the same as the Iberian falcatta). The falx must have been an extremely nasty weapon, because encountering it is the only thing that ever made the Roman army change its equipment while on campaign. Apart from adding the supporting bars to their helmets, they also switched back to using chainmail and scale mail instead of the segmented plate armour that had become standard and added shoulder and arm guards to their equipment. Those weapons must have really scared them... So while the helmet is of Celtic origin, the brow is of Roman origin.
Thus concludes the history lesson


The funny thing about all of that is it seems mostly unsubstantiated. Indeed, given that the best steels would eventually be coming out of the old Eastern provinces of the Empire, it kind of calls into question that entire working theory.

Likewise the names of Helmet styles dont correlate with place of origin, but rather thebplace where examples of the type were first found.

Celtic smiths being “better” is often repreated but Ive never seen any academic evidence for it, and like wise the Roman Imperial and the Celtic style helmets might both in fact be off shoots of Greek exports (or colonist smiths from the Greek cities in Italy and Southern France).


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/02/01 17:53:31


Post by: Iron_Captain


Carlovonsexron wrote:
 Iron_Captain wrote:
 Vulcan wrote:
 Iron_Captain wrote:
 Vulcan wrote:
It looks to me like a Celt with salvaged Roman gear.

Since that's how many Celts got their gear, this works for me alongside more typically Celtic models.

Actually, a lot of Roman equipment was of Celtic origin...


Fair point. The Romans took military equipment from everywhere and made it their own.

But I'm pretty certain that helmet with the reinforced brow was a strictly Roman invention after fighting the Macedonians and their falcatta.

Yes and no. The helmets with the reinforced brows are referred to as 'imperial-type helmets' (of which there are several sub-types). They too originate with the Celtic peoples of Gaul and not with the Romans (the ancient Gauls were much better smiths than the Romans were, up to the point that we can determine whether a Roman legionary helmet was a true Gaulish-made one or a cheap Roman copy-cat version, though the Roman work does improve over time). The brows themselves are a Roman invention though, resulting from field modifications made during the Dacian Wars when the Romans faced the Dacians and their falx weapons (not the Macedonians. The Romans defeated the Macedonians much earlier in their history, long before the imperial-type helmet was developed. Also, the Macedonians used the kopis, which was very similar to but not the same as the Iberian falcatta). The falx must have been an extremely nasty weapon, because encountering it is the only thing that ever made the Roman army change its equipment while on campaign. Apart from adding the supporting bars to their helmets, they also switched back to using chainmail and scale mail instead of the segmented plate armour that had become standard and added shoulder and arm guards to their equipment. Those weapons must have really scared them... So while the helmet is of Celtic origin, the brow is of Roman origin.
Thus concludes the history lesson


The funny thing about all of that is it seems mostly unsubstantiated. Indeed, given that the best steels would eventually be coming out of the old Eastern provinces of the Empire, it kind of calls into question that entire working theory.

Likewise the names of Helmet styles dont correlate with place of origin, but rather thebplace where examples of the type were first found.

Celtic smiths being “better” is often repreated but Ive never seen any academic evidence for it, and like wise the Roman Imperial and the Celtic style helmets might both in fact be off shoots of Greek exports (or colonist smiths from the Greek cities in Italy and Southern France).

Celtic helmet styles are not derived from the Greeks. Greek helmets are very different from Celtic ones. While the Gauls had marginal contact with the Greeks through their colony at Massalia, and we do have evidence they imported some goods, there is no evidence for the import of Greek helmet styles at any point in the history of Gaul. Celtic helmet types show a clear line of development that stretches back into the bronze age, and there are no Greek parallels that could have served as the 'precursors' of Celtic helmet styles. That is not to say there wasn't any influencing going on at all. Gaulish smiths did at times adopt Etruscan and Greek motifs for decoration, just like Etruscan or Greek smiths sometimes adopted Celtic motifs, and there is also evidence Celtic smiths adopted metalworking techniques from Italian peoples. Despite this, Etruscans, Greeks and Celts all maintained clearly separable styles. The skills of Gaulish metalworkers are also beyond any doubt. Hallstatt and La Tène culture sites often yield very spectacular finds.
Just look at the Agris helmet for example:
Spoiler:

Beyond that, the consistent adoption by the Roman army of Celtic styles of helmets and other equipment clearly indicates the Romans thought highly of Celtic metalworks. The Romans also adopted helmet styles from the Greeks. But the fact that those Greek-inspired helmets were replaced by Celtic-inspired helmets says a lot. Of course, 'better' is a relative concept. Roman smiths were better in other things than their Celtic counterparts. Roman smiths used more advanced technologies and could produce on an almost industrial-level scale in vast factory-like workshops, while Celtic smiths were much smaller operations that produced unique, single items rather than the mass production the Romans favoured.
Also, it is not true the best steel came from the East. The Romans themselves in written sources laud Noricum as one the best sources for steel (which not coincidentally is an important center of the Celtic Hallstat and La Tène cultures). The metalworking skills that were present in Noricum are amply evidenced in the archaeological record.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/02/02 03:26:54


Post by: lord marcus


 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
That can obviously be rectified by introducing a reptile faction.

How many plastic reptilian infantry kits are on the market these days that aren't made by GW?

...exactly.


mantic salamanders?


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/02/02 03:48:50


Post by: highlord tamburlaine


Salamanders are amphibians.

I clearly stated reptiles!

We do have Northstar's snakemen to look forward to at some future point at least...


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/02/02 04:24:19


Post by: MattW


 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
Salamanders are amphibians.

I clearly stated reptiles!

We do have Northstar's snakemen to look forward to at some future point at least...


Apparently next month.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/02/02 05:19:53


Post by: Gallahad


 Iron_Captain wrote:
Carlovonsexron wrote:
 Iron_Captain wrote:
 Vulcan wrote:
 Iron_Captain wrote:
 Vulcan wrote:
It looks to me like a Celt with salvaged Roman gear.

Since that's how many Celts got their gear, this works for me alongside more typically Celtic models.

Actually, a lot of Roman equipment was of Celtic origin...


Fair point. The Romans took military equipment from everywhere and made it their own.

But I'm pretty certain that helmet with the reinforced brow was a strictly Roman invention after fighting the Macedonians and their falcatta.

Yes and no. The helmets with the reinforced brows are referred to as 'imperial-type helmets' (of which there are several sub-types). They too originate with the Celtic peoples of Gaul and not with the Romans (the ancient Gauls were much better smiths than the Romans were, up to the point that we can determine whether a Roman legionary helmet was a true Gaulish-made one or a cheap Roman copy-cat version, though the Roman work does improve over time). The brows themselves are a Roman invention though, resulting from field modifications made during the Dacian Wars when the Romans faced the Dacians and their falx weapons (not the Macedonians. The Romans defeated the Macedonians much earlier in their history, long before the imperial-type helmet was developed. Also, the Macedonians used the kopis, which was very similar to but not the same as the Iberian falcatta). The falx must have been an extremely nasty weapon, because encountering it is the only thing that ever made the Roman army change its equipment while on campaign. Apart from adding the supporting bars to their helmets, they also switched back to using chainmail and scale mail instead of the segmented plate armour that had become standard and added shoulder and arm guards to their equipment. Those weapons must have really scared them... So while the helmet is of Celtic origin, the brow is of Roman origin.
Thus concludes the history lesson


The funny thing about all of that is it seems mostly unsubstantiated. Indeed, given that the best steels would eventually be coming out of the old Eastern provinces of the Empire, it kind of calls into question that entire working theory.

Likewise the names of Helmet styles dont correlate with place of origin, but rather thebplace where examples of the type were first found.

Celtic smiths being “better” is often repreated but Ive never seen any academic evidence for it, and like wise the Roman Imperial and the Celtic style helmets might both in fact be off shoots of Greek exports (or colonist smiths from the Greek cities in Italy and Southern France).

Celtic helmet styles are not derived from the Greeks. Greek helmets are very different from Celtic ones. While the Gauls had marginal contact with the Greeks through their colony at Massalia, and we do have evidence they imported some goods, there is no evidence for the import of Greek helmet styles at any point in the history of Gaul. Celtic helmet types show a clear line of development that stretches back into the bronze age, and there are no Greek parallels that could have served as the 'precursors' of Celtic helmet styles. That is not to say there wasn't any influencing going on at all. Gaulish smiths did at times adopt Etruscan and Greek motifs for decoration, just like Etruscan or Greek smiths sometimes adopted Celtic motifs, and there is also evidence Celtic smiths adopted metalworking techniques from Italian peoples. Despite this, Etruscans, Greeks and Celts all maintained clearly separable styles. The skills of Gaulish metalworkers are also beyond any doubt. Hallstatt and La Tène culture sites often yield very spectacular finds.
Just look at the Agris helmet for example:
Spoiler:

Beyond that, the consistent adoption by the Roman army of Celtic styles of helmets and other equipment clearly indicates the Romans thought highly of Celtic metalworks. The Romans also adopted helmet styles from the Greeks. But the fact that those Greek-inspired helmets were replaced by Celtic-inspired helmets says a lot. Of course, 'better' is a relative concept. Roman smiths were better in other things than their Celtic counterparts. Roman smiths used more advanced technologies and could produce on an almost industrial-level scale in vast factory-like workshops, while Celtic smiths were much smaller operations that produced unique, single items rather than the mass production the Romans favoured.
Also, it is not true the best steel came from the East. The Romans themselves in written sources laud Noricum as one the best sources for steel (which not coincidentally is an important center of the Celtic Hallstat and La Tène cultures). The metalworking skills that were present in Noricum are amply evidenced in the archaeological record.


This conversation so perfectly encapsulates why the oathmark range is a waste I almost can't believe it. I love history. I love Roman history, I find this conversation very interesting. But consider: Here we have two studious historians talking about the historicity of the armament of an Oathmark fantasy human guy...

Again, I mean no disrespect to the two historians here, I hope their conversation continues, but surely I'm not the only one to see the delicious irony?


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/02/02 05:32:39


Post by: Aesthete


Maybe someone else sees it too. Not me though. I'm enjoying g the conversation and I'm looking forward to the Oathmark minis.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/02/02 05:37:11


Post by: MattW


I'm not sure what's ironic about the conversation either, tbh.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/02/02 06:45:46


Post by: MonkeyBallistic


I think what’s he’s getting at is that if Oathmark humans look so close to certain historical miniatures, then why not just use historical miniatures?

Personally, I love what I’ve seen so far. I’ve been turned off fantasy as a genre for a couple of decades as everything has gone very Warhammer/Warcraft in style. Oathmark looks like the kind of Dark Ages inspired fantasy that I grew up loving. The elves are great and I just love the goblins. As for humans though, I think a good range of Viking, Saxon or Norman historicals would be brilliantly in keeping with the style.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/02/02 07:10:19


Post by: MattW


 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
I think what’s he’s getting at is that if Oathmark humans look so close to certain historical miniatures, then why not just use historical miniatures?

Personally, I love what I’ve seen so far. I’ve been turned off fantasy as a genre for a couple of decades as everything has gone very Warhammer/Warcraft in style. Oathmark looks like the kind of Dark Ages inspired fantasy that I grew up loving. The elves are great and I just love the goblins. As for humans though, I think a good range of Viking, Saxon or Norman historicals would be brilliantly in keeping with the style.


I was being a little sarcastic...

I agree with you on all points. I think that the whole "you could just use historicals for these" goes for pretty much every single fantasy human line anyway (esp. GW ones), so I'm happy enough with the direction they took here. It's just a mash-up of a few mismatched historical armour styles, which is good enough for me.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/02/02 09:04:24


Post by: Ian Sturrock


If you're a fantasy designer/artist (of minis, or TV show armour, or book covers), your options are kind of:

a) to make something that's pretty much just historical armour

b) to do some kind of mashup of historical armour styles

c) to go completely fantasy

If a, some people will complain that it's not fantastic enough. If b, some people will complain that it's a mashup. If c, some people will complain that it's too fantastic.

My working hypothesis *right now* is that different people have individual tastes, and that most of them are pretty good at just buying the stuff that they like, but that a few of them get the best fun from the hobby by telling other people why they're having the wrong kind of fun.

* FWIW I'm also enjoying the historical chat. And there is kind of an option (d), when I'm not being facetious, which is to know *so much* about armour, from several different perspectives (historian, armour wearer, HEMA practitioner, armoursmith) that you can create fantasy armour that looks like it might be real. But we're talking master-level work, here. Some of the Lord of the Rings designs managed it. Most of the Game of Thrones ones didn't. Most miniatures sculptors don't get even close.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/02/02 11:04:46


Post by: Albertorius


 Gallahad wrote:
Again, I mean no disrespect to the two historians here, I hope their conversation continues, but surely I'm not the only one to see the delicious irony?

Maybe some people actually like their fantasy more grounded, so that they can engage in conversations like the one above?

I mean, horses for courses and current fantasy is, in general, more slanted towards high fantasy nowadays. So maybe having the option of having "historical-ish stuff, but not quite" is appealing to some people.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/02/05 17:27:26


Post by: Prestor Jon


I ordered a box of dwarfs and a box of goblins as the package deal that included a metal hero of each as well and received them several weeks ago. I've put a fair few together over the last couple of weekends and I like the kits.

The goblins are a better kit than the dwarfs in my opinion because they fit in with other orcs and goblins easier. Maybe it's because I read Tolkien as a kid but I've always thought of orcs and goblins as being interchangeable terms so I'm glad the "goblins" are the same size as "orcs" in GW's LotR range and are the size of the humans made by Fireforge and Gripping Beast. It was easy to kitbash the goblins with the leftovers from the Frostgrave Cultist box and I would assume that other Frostgrave kits would also work well with them which increases their utility. GW ork bits were too large (at least the old leftovers in my bitz box were) but the Empire Flagellant arm with the scourge/whip fit in nicely and looks cool. The weapon variety is nice but I wish there were more spear arms in an attacking position.

The dwarfs are well made but way too big, they're practically human sized. I kitbashed some of the dwarf bodies with Fireforge sargeants and Gripping Beast Vikings to make more people. The dwarf bodies are barely smaller than the Gripping Beast Viking Hirdmen, the bodies are very similar, the dwarf ones are just designed to accommodate giant heads with ZZ Top beards. I was able to trim down the dwarf archer arms and make some nice looking Viking archers using the GP bodies and heads and adding Bretonnian pavises from the M@A box made some neat looking LotR Iron Hills dwarfs although they're in chainmail instead of plate armor.





[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/04/16 21:28:31


Post by: MattW


The Oathmark elves are here!!

They’re available for order now rather than pre-order, and there’s a complement of 6 metal characters to add to your orders.

http://northstarfigures.com/list.php?man=257&cat=176&page=1

Elf King:



Elf sorceress:



Painted elf infantry:




[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/04/17 00:30:57


Post by: pancakeonions


Excellent!

That elf sorceress looks so nice and relaxed...


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/04/17 00:41:15


Post by: plastictrees


"You shall not pass? I guess, whose to say in this economy? Sigh."


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/04/17 00:52:36


Post by: infinite_array


Still waiting to see anything about the actual rules of Oathmark.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/04/17 05:09:32


Post by: Aesthete


 infinite_array wrote:
Still waiting to see anything about the actual rules of Oathmark.


Yeah.

I'm digging the old school feel of the minis, but like you I'm curious about the rules.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/04/17 06:51:12


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


The words serviceable and adequate come to mind. Of course there are so many middle of the road elves out there it's hard to make a mark.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/04/17 07:57:42


Post by: MattW


Genuinely interested in who makes all of these middle-of the road elves. GW? BTD? Gamezone?

I can’t think of that many elf producers tbh


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/04/17 08:07:32


Post by: StygianBeach


I am still excited for the plastics.

Not sold on the king though, I think the Sorceress looks good, but her boobs look too big.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/04/17 08:09:15


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


MattW wrote:
Genuinely interested in who makes all of these middle-of the road elves. GW? BTD? Gamezone?

I can’t think of that many elf producers tbh


Reaper, Ralpartha, Iron Wind, Mantic...


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/04/17 08:37:53


Post by: MattW


Of those four, only Mantic really do actual units, the others just do characters. I wouldn’t really put RPG mini producers in the same market as the Oathmark stuff.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/04/17 08:39:34


Post by: mould2k


The Mantic ones are also pretty hideous in my opinion. But I agree that these are a little bland.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/04/17 15:30:00


Post by: Mac V


Spoke to Joseph @ Adepticon.

Sounds like the plan is heavy infantry for the races, then onto cav. I got the impression Dwarves are not getting cav.

The rules are at where it's been stated. In playtest. Release depends on how that all goes. Plus, it'll be helpful to have more units out before publishing the book.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/04/17 19:49:02


Post by: pancakeonions


How do these guys look up against GW figures? If they're anything like the Frostgrave plastics, those were a bit small (noticeably small, like 80-85% sized) against GW and other figures.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
(by these guys: I mean the Oathmark figures that are out so far. Just wondering how they look alongside other popular minis-makers)


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/04/17 20:39:12


Post by: Gallahad


 pancakeonions wrote:
How do these guys look up against GW figures? If they're anything like the Frostgrave plastics, those were a bit small (noticeably small, like 80-85% sized) against GW and other figures.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
(by these guys: I mean the Oathmark figures that are out so far. Just wondering how they look alongside other popular minis-makers)


They are small, even a little less chunky than frostgrave. Osprey wants their fantasy miniatures to scale with historical miniatures because they're target buyer has been wargaming for 30+ years and will only be coaxed out of historicals and back into fantasy if the miniatures are compatible (scale and style) with miniatures produced 25-30 years ago. At least, that is my best guess.

The miniatures do look great painted up. The shield freehand really sells them. I might even pick some up if they scaled with fantasy miniatures better.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/04/17 20:44:54


Post by: infinite_array


Mac V wrote:

The rules are at where it's been stated. In playtest. Release depends on how that all goes. Plus, it'll be helpful to have more units out before publishing the book.


Any info on game mechanics? Army building or game size?


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/04/17 21:24:11


Post by: pancakeonions


I was afraid of that (the smaller scale), but I'm still tempted to pick up a box of goblins because all my orcs and goblins are all over the place - so that's A-OK by me!


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/04/17 21:31:30


Post by: MattW


Gallahad wrote:
The miniatures do look great painted up. The shield freehand really sells them. I might even pick some up if they scaled with fantasy miniatures better.


The shields are transfers- they’re available as part of the preorder.

pancakeonions wrote:I was afraid of that (the smaller scale), but I'm still tempted to pick up a box of goblins because all my orcs and goblins are all over the place - so that's A-OK by me!


The goblins scale with the GW Mordor Orcs pretty well. There’s a photo floating around the internet somewhere.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/04/18 08:09:16


Post by: Huginn


I did a couple of reviews on my blog, the goblins scale well with LotR (if you treat them as orcs). I guess the elves will be similar in scale, so more like 25-28mm rather than 32-35mm of GW.

https://paintsngluenrocknroll.blogspot.co.uk/2017/12/oathmark-goblins-review.html

https://paintsngluenrocknroll.blogspot.co.uk/2018/01/oathmark-goblins-painted.html



EDIT : Found this image over on LAF, originally from facebook, so yeah, good match with LotR, significantly smaller than WHFB



[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/04/23 18:09:59


Post by: stonehorse


These are fantastic looking models, nice simple designs that do not clutter the models. All too often we see models that are over detailed and as a result the overall look of the model is lost.

I'm not sure I'll be using these for the intended game system by Osprey, but I think I may have to start a small KoW force using a few of these box sets. Not sure which force to go for initially, I have never collected a Goblin force so would be tempted to give them a try, my one point of concern is that the Goblins look a bit too big to use as Goblins, they look more like Hobgoblin sized.

Has anyone done a size comparison of the models next to each other and other similar models?


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/04/23 18:55:26


Post by: infinite_array


 stonehorse wrote:
Has anyone done a size comparison of the models next to each other and other similar models?


They're closer to GW's Lord of the Ring's Orcs in size.



[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/04/24 00:47:30


Post by: pancakeonions


WHAT is that chubby dude on the left there...!?!?

lol


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/04/24 01:18:00


Post by: plastictrees


A Bloblin or maybe a Blork?


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/04/24 07:22:01


Post by: Azazelx


MattW wrote:
Of those four, only Mantic really do actual units, the others just do characters. I wouldn’t really put RPG mini producers in the same market as the Oathmark stuff.


Reaper actually do a few Elven units in their Warlords line. They're kinda hidden behind their single-mini, D&D type lines, though.
https://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStore/elf%20warlord/sku-down/page4
https://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStore/elf%20warlord/sku-down/page5


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/04/25 14:03:44


Post by: stonehorse


Thanks for the photo of the Goblin next to LotR Orcs, that does help get an idea of their scale.

Far too big for Goblins, but perfect for Hobgoblins. I haven't seen any of the Dwarves next other Dwarf miniatures, I do hope that the models scale well.

I read that they are wanting to do Humans, Orcs, and Undead in the future. I can only imagine at how big their Orcs are going to be.

The Orcs might be one of the races that buck the trend of weapon options, spear and shield tactics aren't really associated with Orcs. Maybe hand weapon with shield, 2 hand weapons, and bow.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/04/25 15:03:59


Post by: Prestor Jon


 stonehorse wrote:
Thanks for the photo of the Goblin next to LotR Orcs, that does help get an idea of their scale.

Far too big for Goblins, but perfect for Hobgoblins. I haven't seen any of the Dwarves next other Dwarf miniatures, I do hope that the models scale well.

I read that they are wanting to do Humans, Orcs, and Undead in the future. I can only imagine at how big their Orcs are going to be.

The Orcs might be one of the races that buck the trend of weapon options, spear and shield tactics aren't really associated with Orcs. Maybe hand weapon with shield, 2 hand weapons, and bow.


The dwarves don't scale well. They're about twice the height of Red Box Games dwarves and LotR dwarves, going by the Gimli I have. The plastic dwarves are essentially Gripping Beast Viking hirdmen with big Dwarf heads.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/07/10 06:40:16


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


Facebook had pictures of the human soldiers, plastic.

They seem a good substitute for Brettonians among other things.



[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/07/10 08:56:39


Post by: Blackhoof


Seems like a lot of new mass-fantasy wargames make their own fantasy humans.
While affordable units of basic elf and dwarf soldiers are relatively uncommon, humans are a dime-a-dozen.

Seems like a waste to make those products when their are so many historical and fantasy competitors.

Wouldn't something more unique than basic fantasy humans be a better investment? I dunno, I guess they are popular enough, since all the companies are making them regardless.

But I'd kill for more plastic fantasy weirdness. Frostgrave has been doing a lot of that though, to be fair- Gnolls and Cultists spring to mind.

Decent boxes of plastic skeletons (and to a lesser degree, zombies, although Mantic have those well-covered) are rare, and that would be good to see.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/07/10 09:49:55


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


I see your point and these probably overlap quite a bit with the Frostgrave humans and pirates.

But everyone likes humans, some of my best friends are humans, and unlike Elves or Orcs everyone agrees what they look like.

Still I do hope for some generic skeletons, zombies, orcs and such. Shame that WGF's generic fantasy line is dead.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/07/10 09:52:38


Post by: Huginn


I loved the goblins (use them as LotR orcs), but these humans seem particularly bland. There are lots of historical kits around that do this kind of thing but much better. I guess they are going for a certain aesthetic because they do seem similar to the elves. For a quasi-medieval-fantasy vibe I reckon the new Fireforge figures work much better.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/07/10 11:08:21


Post by: RazorEdge


 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I see your point and these probably overlap quite a bit with the Frostgrave humans and pirates.

But everyone likes humans, some of my best friends are humans, and unlike Elves or Orcs everyone agrees what they look like.

Still I do hope for some generic skeletons, zombies, orcs and such. Shame that WGF's generic fantasy line is dead.


They said they want to make generic Skeletons in the future.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/07/10 14:07:49


Post by: Psychopomp


RazorEdge wrote:


They said they want to make generic Skeletons in the future.


If the Oathmark line releases generic, unarmored skeletons to these standards without them constantly snapping at the skins and ankles, they'll get a lot of custom from me.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/07/10 22:52:03


Post by: Blackhoof


One thing that I find interesting about the Wights in Game of Thrones is that they have no distinction between zombies and skeletons- all are just dead bodies in various states of decay.

Meanwhile in most fantasy worlds in which they are depicted, there is a hard distinction between zombies and skeletons. You usually don't find zombies beyond a certain level of decay- they are all recently dead. And you don't find skellies with any flesh on them at all.

A plastic kit that does a similar thing to GoT wights- mixing "zombies" and "skeletons" in various in-between stages of decay in one kit would be very interesting, and unique.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/07/11 00:10:13


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


As long as they give at least one (clean) skeleton a scimitar, I'm happy.




[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/07/12 06:14:46


Post by: Carlovonsexron


Iron_Captain wrote:
Celtic helmet styles are not derived from the Greeks. Greek helmets are very different from Celtic ones. While the Gauls had marginal contact with the Greeks through their colony at Massalia, and we do have evidence they imported some goods, there is no evidence for the import of Greek helmet styles at any point in the history of Gaul. Celtic helmet types show a clear line of development that stretches back into the bronze age, and there are no Greek parallels that could have served as the 'precursors' of Celtic helmet styles. That is not to say there wasn't any influencing going on at all. Gaulish smiths did at times adopt Etruscan and Greek motifs for decoration, just like Etruscan or Greek smiths sometimes adopted Celtic motifs, and there is also evidence Celtic smiths adopted metalworking techniques from Italian peoples. Despite this, Etruscans, Greeks and Celts all maintained clearly separable styles. The skills of Gaulish metalworkers are also beyond any doubt. Hallstatt and La Tène culture sites often yield very spectacular finds.
Just look at the Agris helmet for example:
Spoiler:

Beyond that, the consistent adoption by the Roman army of Celtic styles of helmets and other equipment clearly indicates the Romans thought highly of Celtic metalworks. The Romans also adopted helmet styles from the Greeks. But the fact that those Greek-inspired helmets were replaced by Celtic-inspired helmets says a lot. Of course, 'better' is a relative concept. Roman smiths were better in other things than their Celtic counterparts. Roman smiths used more advanced technologies and could produce on an almost industrial-level scale in vast factory-like workshops, while Celtic smiths were much smaller operations that produced unique, single items rather than the mass production the Romans favoured.
Also, it is not true the best steel came from the East. The Romans themselves in written sources laud Noricum as one the best sources for steel (which not coincidentally is an important center of the Celtic Hallstat and La Tène cultures). The metalworking skills that were present in Noricum are amply evidenced in the archaeological record.


I had forgotten about this!

My mian issue with your argument is that it takes fairly outdated isolationist view of arms and armor development in Europe, when we KNOW there has been a trade in both since the Aegean bronze age, and a great many of those ancient Aegean designs are either precursors of, or at least anticipate later "celtic" designs. NOTHING exists in a vacuum in arms and armor design.

But more to the point, I think most people look at the 'montefortino' type of helmet as being the point of heaviest gallicisation of Roman equipment, and its not hard to see why- the basic elements of the helmet are the same, and its adopted during the period of Gallic movements in the peninsula. But its important to understand that the design doesn't come in a vacuum, and there are obvious parallels with the attic and chalcidice helmets coming in from Greece, along with the native Italian evolution of the Corinthian helmet, the aptly named "Italo-Corinthian".

But the simplicity of the Montefortino I think IS partially due to Gallic influence of making the pattern widespread, and partially due to how much cheaper it is to produce than the more overtly Greek derived helmets - but not of some inherent benefit of utility.

But again nothing in a vacuum. I see a direct correlation in the expansion of the Republic into Greece and Anatolia and the gradual morphing of its arms and armor to reflect this influence. Its an expansion that begins in the aftermath of the second punic war, and expanding significantly there after in the era of Marius and Sulla (the generation before Caesar, and the heyday of the Montefortino) eventually being consolidated by Caesar and Augustus. And during that period of consolidation you see an interesting morphing of the Montefortino helmet into something that looks more broadly like an Attic helmet- and in art you see actual attic helmets being in use by the Praetorian guard, a choice I've always thought was a form of propaganda in nature.

All of this is just to show the tip of the iceburg in terms of how material culture - arms and armor included- develops. Claiming a single source for just about anything is folly, and I assure you that Greek and Celtic designs were influencing each other just as much as both were influencing the Romans, or the Nordic runes may n fact be Etruscan. It's all connected.

As for iron and steel, yes, the steels of Noricum were tremendous and famous! But it's worth reading how the prestige iron and steel in the Roman world came from India (though thought by the Romans to be from China)...
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Journals/JAOS/35/The_Eastern_Iron_Trade_of_the_Roman_Empire*.html


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/07/15 03:31:05


Post by: kestral


I like the humans - pity they are likely a bit small for any of my obvious uses.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/09/14 09:04:21


Post by: Albertorius


I bough a couple of days ago a box of Oathmark Elves, and... I must say that I got very pleasantly surprised. The minis are beautifully sculpted and look very interesting. I must say that the pictures don't do them justice.

This is the first elf I assembled, some sort of adventuring sort with no regard for personal safety (ie. no helmet ):



And man, they are tiny!



I think they work perfectly for LorT, though, which is well enough, as that was my intention all along:



All in all, a satisfied customer. I can't wait to get the dwarves and the goblins (I'm not that keen on the humies).


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/09/14 10:56:50


Post by: Mymearan


That... actually looks good. Well slap my ass and call me Wendy!


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/09/14 11:45:04


Post by: Huginn


I bought the goblins and they are pretty nice to use as LotR orcs. The figures are quite well detailed, as good as most historical ranges. The problem for me is the poses are a bit wooden, no matter how you assemble them it's hard to get a good natural look.

On the elf, the chest armour just looks like a complete afterthought, really poorly done. There are much better plastic elves around - either GW LotR or Warhammer will serve well.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/09/14 11:55:04


Post by: Albertorius


 Huginn wrote:
On the elf, the chest armour just looks like a complete afterthought, really poorly done. There are much better plastic elves around - either GW LotR or Warhammer will serve well.


Does it? I thought it looked quite a lot like the kind of pectoral reinforcements you see on a lot of warriors of antiquity, like for example these iberian warriors:




[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/09/14 15:18:27


Post by: Gallahad


I'll never understand why they chose to do Oathmark in 25mm scale.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/09/14 15:22:45


Post by: Maniac_nmt


I think Dragon Rampant will fill any need for Fantasy Battles I have at the moment, but kudos to the smaller, less over the top/out of proportion, models.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/09/14 16:25:13


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


 Gallahad wrote:
I'll never understand why they chose to do Oathmark in 25mm scale.


Yeah, that is a head scratcher. Heck, I'd probably even buy a box of their elves* if the scale weren't so ...delicate. I have the same issue with Frostgrave Barbarians--I'd buy a whole bunch to field with my Shieldmaidens if they didn't look so comical together. They remind me of the short guy I knew in college who exclusively hit on tall, tall women.


*With those pads and that glorious hair they would be my Medieval Times Dinner and Tournament Champions.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/09/14 18:05:04


Post by: ulgurstasta


 Gallahad wrote:
I'll never understand why they chose to do Oathmark in 25mm scale.


Aren't they "proper" 28mm like most hard plastic historicals?


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/09/14 18:22:00


Post by: Gallahad


 ulgurstasta wrote:
 Gallahad wrote:
I'll never understand why they chose to do Oathmark in 25mm scale.


Aren't they "proper" 28mm like most hard plastic historicals?


They are whatever scale gw's lotr range is in both height and proportion, so slightly smaller and daintier than most plastic historicals, or at the very least, on the smaller end of plastic historicals.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/09/14 18:22:41


Post by: Elbows


Yeah, the Oathmark scale is off-putting for sure. I won't mind for goblins and orcs (I have a box of the goblins I haven't opened). But for something that needs to mix in with my large range of board game, Reaper, and Warhammer derived minis...a smaller scale manufacturer won't get much of my money.

It sucks too because I'd buy everything Tre Manor makes too, but the majority of his metals range is significantly smaller than the other figures I use.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/09/15 08:00:11


Post by: StygianBeach


I got them too, and while I am happy with the Spearelves, the one archer I built looks a bit off.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/10/07 03:58:04


Post by: highlord tamburlaine


That looks quite Frostgrave, not Oathmark.

Cool nonetheless.

Hopefully it'll remain compatible with their current plastics range if you want some bulked out ladies. I bet some of the cultist hoods and bodies could be nicely swapped.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/10/07 04:09:46


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


This looks like a great kit. I'll buy some.

The slighter stature compared to most 28mm minis resulting from Frostgrave/Oathmark's scale might also be a little less of an issue.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/10/07 06:37:04


Post by: NuhJuhKuh


Any word on timeframe for the cavalry or indeed the RULES?!


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/10/07 10:14:29


Post by: Zywus


 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
That looks quite Frostgrave, not Oathmark.

Yea, I got them mixed up.

Models should be usable in both of course.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/10/10 03:27:11


Post by: lord marcus


how is the oathmark stuff next to fireforge plastic infantry?


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/10/10 09:04:43


Post by: ordoteutonicus


lord markus, they work fine together


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/10/11 13:22:13


Post by: stonehorse


The Frostgrave plastics are really nice, just a shame the number of weapon options are odd. I understand that it is primarily for Frostgrave Warbands who have a mixture of equipment, but it does limit their potential to be used in other systems. 1 spear per sprue, so 4 in a box, for a Dragon Rampant unit that would mean 3 boxes.

Which would also provide enough for 1 unit of double handed weapons. 1 unit of crossbows, 1 unit of bow troops, and 2 unit of scouts armed with bows. While not too bad, it does mean there is no option to buy 1 box set and get a unit of your choice from that one box, other than bow armed scouts.

Plus it would be a shooting heavy force, which can be a bit unbalanced.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/10/11 19:01:39


Post by: Maniac_nmt


If you want a more proportional breakout of kit, I suggest Gripping Beast (Late Roman, Dark Age, Viking, and Saxon boxes), Warlord (the old WGF Saxon and Viking boxes), Conquest Games (Norman’s), or Fireforge (Scandinavian, Rus, etc).

Prices are pretty reasonable, lots of weapon variety, and easy to build out several 8-12 man units in a single box.

For Ancients, try Victrix or Warlord’s plastics.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/10/13 18:58:40


Post by: TheAuldGrump


I showed my wife Megan the all female warband deal and she is quite happy with the way they are wearing sensible clothes.

She was mildly upset that I neglected to show her the 'bishonen' wraiths that are among the monsters. (In my defense - I didn't notice that there was a second page on the US version of the Nickstarter.)

Now she is really happy.

The Auld Grump - there's a market for bishonen monsters?


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2018/10/13 19:12:37


Post by: highlord tamburlaine


I have long argued in favor of having a pretty boy Slaaneshi model range.

Or just something that can match that Japanese beautiful man aesthetic sculpt wise. Every now and then someone's art department comes close (Anima springs to mind) but the models never do it justice.

At least I've got the Kingdom Death male pinups to look forward to.


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2019/03/19 14:10:23


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


Dwarves are coming.

https://www.facebook.com/Oathmark/



[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2019/03/19 14:21:24


Post by: Gallahad


I'm confused. I thought they already had dwarves? (Look at the first page of this thread). Also, 23 dwarf heads per 5 bodies seems a bit excessive. But between the two kits you have a ton of weapon options. Nice to see the two handed options in this one. Maybe these are meant to represent heavier armored dwarves?


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2019/03/19 15:29:25


Post by: Kid_Kyoto


Ah yes, these are the "The Dwarf Heavy Infantry sprue (front and back)" so must be a new unit


[Osprey/Northstar] OATHMARK Fantasy Mass Battles: Plastic skeletons sprue shot p16 @ 2019/03/19 20:38:28


Post by: highlord tamburlaine


Best part is these parts should all be compatible with the Frostgrave and Ghost Archipelago kits they've released.

I wouldn't mind some heavily armored arms to mix with all the other bits. Most Frostgrave arms tend to be pretty bare as well.