34801
Post by: MechaEmperor7000
I was watching Gordon Ramsay's Great Escape and in the third episode he visits a location where they only eat vegetarian meals (According to the video, you can't even rent an apartment there without adhering to a veggie diet). That got me wondering; are there vegetarians in 40k? We've heard about Corpsestarch and Soylent Veridians, but are there factions or worlds that adhere solely to a veggie diet?
On that note, do Orks count as Vegetarian/vegan? They eat squigs and gretchin, but since those are fungus-based lifeforms, wouldn't that technically make them vegetarians (or even vegans, since there's no "animal" products)?
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Post by: curran12
Well, it is a big galaxy, so it is possible. That said, in the Imperium, such a diet (or any specialty diet, not necessary vegetarianism) would be a considerable luxury.
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Post by: ChargerIIC
According to fluff, a large number of imperial worlds are eating artifical protiens made from moss or algae. The acid dogs (AM Regiment) are from such a world if I remember. Like most SciFi, meat seems to be a sign of above-average prosperity.
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Post by: Cream Tea
With the size of the 40k setting, there are bound to be billions of vegetarians across vast amounts of star systems. There are probably many vegetarians of necessity, who lack access to animal products. There are also probably many who have chosen vegetarianism for some reason or other. There may even be entire worlds, especially among those not under the imperium's direct control, where the entire population is more or less vegetarian.
I wouldn't call Orks vegetarians. They, as well as the squigs and gretchins, are clearly sentient life forms.
As a side note, fungi are considered more closely related to animals than to plants genetically.
34801
Post by: MechaEmperor7000
That gave me the mental image of an entire shrine world where vegetarianism is enforced with the death penalty to anyone eating meat. Knowing the Imperium, there probably is such a world.
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Post by: kingleir
 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:That gave me the mental image of an entire shrine world where vegetarianism is enforced with the death penalty to anyone eating meat. Knowing the Imperium, there probably is such a world.
Every slice of the knife, a salute to death itself. Khorne cares not from where the blood flows, your steak will do.
I can just imagine Khorne vacationing at its steak throne.
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Post by: usmcmidn
 Cream Tea wrote:As a side note, fungi are considered more closely related to animals than to plants genetically.
I had to google that and I honestly just spent the last 30 minutes on the toilet reading about how your statement is indeed true. Fascinating stuff, good post!
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Post by: Arachnofiend
kingleir wrote: MechaEmperor7000 wrote:That gave me the mental image of an entire shrine world where vegetarianism is enforced with the death penalty to anyone eating meat. Knowing the Imperium, there probably is such a world.
Every slice of the knife, a salute to death itself. Khorne cares not from where the blood flows, your steak will do.
I can just imagine Khorne vacationing at its steak throne.
This is absolutely hilarious and the kind of thing that if it doesn't exist, should.
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Post by: MechaEmperor7000
Knowing the universe, there is probably at least one planet ruled by a Vegetarian Dictatorship that is in the process of being overthrown by a Khornate meat-eating cult.
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Post by: chyron
Everything possible at least on some of Imperial worlds.
OTOH Craftworld Eldar are strict vegetarians (not so sure about Exodites and doubt about Drukhari).
Orks are not - they eat any meat, maybe 'cept some 'nids. 'umies are considered tasty by many of 'em (see 'Hero of Imperium', 'Evil Sun Rising' among other books). Automatically Appended Next Post:
And another where rising cult is Slaaneshi, who recruit via food porn 
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Post by: BrianDavion
as others have noted, there are almost certainly worlds, but in many cases it's likely not a moral choice, but a pratical one, meat is a fairly inefficant way to feed a populace.
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Post by: RedCommander
I'm sure that there is at least one completely vegetarian/vegan world in the imperium. Imperium is a big place.
Of course, there must be also also a completely carnivorous place also. Imperium is a big place.
Obviously, most of worlds probably fall somewhere in between.
The thing is, Imperium doesn't care what you do on your planet as long as you: 1) Venerate the immortal emperor and 2) pay you taxes.
... And 3) Provide troops for the Imperial Guard, if you really can do that.
BrianDavion wrote:as others have noted, there are almost certainly worlds, but in many cases it's likely not a moral choice, but a pratical one, meat is a fairly inefficant way to feed a populace.
But it's fun. And nutritionally efficient if you can afford it. Of course, humans are omnivores so they'll eat whatever is available. And fun.
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Post by: Crazyterran
Figure we'd know about an all vegan world, since they'd tell everyone and anything about it. 
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Post by: RedCommander
 Crazyterran wrote:Figure we'd know about an all vegan world, since they'd tell everyone and anything about it.
That is what we call a "zing".
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Post by: pelicaniforce
BrianDavion wrote:as others have noted, there are almost certainly worlds, but in many cases it's likely not a moral choice, but a pratical one, meat is a fairly inefficant way to feed a populace.
When Every world has specific Imperial targets to meet, veganism could be the default, in order to efficiently use resources. Nitrogen fertilizer goes a lot farther building both weapons and raising crops than using the same amount to feed grox and cattle.
chyron wrote:Everything possible at least on some of Imperial worlds.
OTOH Craftworld Eldar are strict vegetarians (not so sure about Exodites and doubt about Drukhari).
)
Knight engines (knight titans) were invented by exodites to herd giant dinosaurs used as livestock and protect the herds from predator dinosaurs. Humans who tried to colonized knight worlds copied the practice and engine warfare ensued.
That being said, a human vegetarian agri world that grew nothing but lentils, cereals, and rice would make good use of knights. If it's nothing but fields, with few roads and possibly flood irrigation, wheels and tracks would be hard to use. With very few cities, installations, or even forests, infantry would have limited use. With a low population, it would be difficult to maintain personnel in large numbers, and knights solve for all these problems.
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Post by: chromedog
Also Craftworlds trade with the exodite worlds for foodstuffs - and meat IS among the foods traded. They aren't exclusively vegetarians. They eat a lot of fruits and veg, but they will also eat flesh.
It's mentioned in Gav Thorpe's eldar path novels.
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Post by: argonak
With the right set of vegetables and cooking methods, it is possible to get all necessary nutrients. The central American diet accomplished this by soaking their corn in an alkaline solution, which freed up vitamins you wouldn't be able to absorb otherwise.
In doing so you can effectively live without meat. Which is far more efficient. Unless something radical has changed either in humans or what we eat, I would expect most hive worlds are eating vegetarian products.
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Post by: chromedog
Thinly sliced and sauteed vegetarian is quite tasty.
Oh, silly me, I'm getting "herbivore" and "vegetarian" mixed up again.
Soylens Viridians is people!
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Post by: BrianDavion
one thing to consider is giving the rediculas levels of grim dark in the setting somewhere you likely have a story where a Primarch after a long period of fighting, arrives on a mining world, the primarchs arrival is greatly welcomed and fetted, at their dinner they serve a grox steak, a rare delicacy on the world. the Primarch, whose spent a good amount of time in the field surviving on his recycled waste, and also wanting to be polite says it's the best steak he ever has had. the Primarch leaves and the Adeptus Terra takes over, noting said Primarchs statement they insist this world be turned over to production of Grox meat, the people eat poorly and mineral resources are wasted, but to this day their steaks sell very well among the upper ranks of the IoM, all eager to try the best steak in the galaxy, as deemed so by one of the sainted primarchs.
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Post by: MechaEmperor7000
BrianDavion wrote:one thing to consider is giving the rediculas levels of grim dark in the setting somewhere you likely have a story where a Primarch after a long period of fighting, arrives on a mining world, the primarchs arrival is greatly welcomed and fetted, at their dinner they serve a grox steak, a rare delicacy on the world. the Primarch, whose spent a good amount of time in the field surviving on his recycled waste, and also wanting to be polite says it's the best steak he ever has had. the Primarch leaves and the Adeptus Terra takes over, noting said Primarchs statement they insist this world be turned over to production of Grox meat, the people eat poorly and mineral resources are wasted, but to this day their steaks sell very well among the upper ranks of the IoM, all eager to try the best steak in the galaxy, as deemed so by one of the sainted primarchs.
Alternatively the Primarch came and, tired of the recycled paste, was glad to have anything, even if it was just a turnip. His praise then turned into holy scriptures centuries after the fact, and now the entire planet is ruled by the Turnip Theocracy.
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Post by: Melissia
I'm sure they exist, but they're unlikely and rare and probably nobility. The average hive worlder eats animal-based food products. I did not say they eat meat mind you. I wouldn't call most nutrient bars meat....
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Post by: Cream Tea
 Melissia wrote:I'm sure they exist, but they're unlikely and rare and probably nobility. The average hive worlder eats animal-based food products. I did not say they eat meat mind you. I wouldn't call most nutrient bars meat....
Vegetarian food is more efficient to produce both in energy and area required, though insects or something similar could be viable too. Algae are a good option. The point is, plants are cheap to grow.
Generally, a diet with higher percentages of animal-based products is associated with status, wealth and luxury. I can't see why it would be different in the 41st millennium.
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Post by: oldravenman3025
MechaEmperor7000 wrote:I was watching Gordon Ramsay's Great Escape and in the third episode he visits a location where they only eat vegetarian meals (According to the video, you can't even rent an apartment there without adhering to a veggie diet). That got me wondering; are there vegetarians in 40k? We've heard about Corpsestarch and Soylent Veridians, but are there factions or worlds that adhere solely to a veggie diet?
On that note, do Orks count as Vegetarian/vegan? They eat squigs and gretchin, but since those are fungus-based lifeforms, wouldn't that technically make them vegetarians (or even vegans, since there's no "animal" products)?
The Orks can also consume animal based material. During the War of the Beast, the Orks would set up some of their conquered worlds as ranch planets, shooting humans up full of crap to increase their size (fattening up) and raising them as livestock. And the larger Squigs will also try to eat you if you let them.
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Post by: BrianDavion
MechaEmperor7000 wrote:BrianDavion wrote:one thing to consider is giving the rediculas levels of grim dark in the setting somewhere you likely have a story where a Primarch after a long period of fighting, arrives on a mining world, the primarchs arrival is greatly welcomed and fetted, at their dinner they serve a grox steak, a rare delicacy on the world. the Primarch, whose spent a good amount of time in the field surviving on his recycled waste, and also wanting to be polite says it's the best steak he ever has had. the Primarch leaves and the Adeptus Terra takes over, noting said Primarchs statement they insist this world be turned over to production of Grox meat, the people eat poorly and mineral resources are wasted, but to this day their steaks sell very well among the upper ranks of the IoM, all eager to try the best steak in the galaxy, as deemed so by one of the sainted primarchs.
Alternatively the Primarch came and, tired of the recycled paste, was glad to have anything, even if it was just a turnip. His praise then turned into holy scriptures centuries after the fact, and now the entire planet is ruled by the Turnip Theocracy.
LOL, yup, could see that too. *makes mental note for next time he runs rogue trader or dark heresy*
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Post by: MechaEmperor7000
Maybe that's why we're missing two primarchs; they landed on a random planet and turned the populace into metaphorical turnip heads and was scrubbed from the records by the emperor for nearly dicking over the entire human race.
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Post by: Desubot
Cream Tea wrote: Melissia wrote:I'm sure they exist, but they're unlikely and rare and probably nobility. The average hive worlder eats animal-based food products. I did not say they eat meat mind you. I wouldn't call most nutrient bars meat....
Vegetarian food is more efficient to produce both in energy and area required, though insects or something similar could be viable too. Algae are a good option. The point is, plants are cheap to grow.
Generally, a diet with higher percentages of animal-based products is associated with status, wealth and luxury. I can't see why it would be different in the 41st millennium.
When has the imperium ever been associated with efficiency?
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Post by: BrianDavion
 Desubot wrote: Cream Tea wrote: Melissia wrote:I'm sure they exist, but they're unlikely and rare and probably nobility. The average hive worlder eats animal-based food products. I did not say they eat meat mind you. I wouldn't call most nutrient bars meat....
Vegetarian food is more efficient to produce both in energy and area required, though insects or something similar could be viable too. Algae are a good option. The point is, plants are cheap to grow.
Generally, a diet with higher percentages of animal-based products is associated with status, wealth and luxury. I can't see why it would be different in the 41st millennium.
When has the imperium ever been associated with efficiency?
whenever it's suitably grim dark?
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Post by: Melissia
Cream Tea wrote:Vegetarian food is more efficient to produce both in energy and area required
Debatable. A large number of vegetarian staples are inefficient, especially regarding calories provided compared to water used. In fact, most vegetables are very inefficient calorie-wise, making them unsuitable for prolonged heavy labor as needed by the Imperium's citizens. The Imperium doesn't provide fresh vegetables to most of its people, using hive planets as a basis for "most of its people" given the population density on those planets. It provides nutrient bars that have been crafted out of organic matter in a factory in order to provide the energy needed to get through the day and just enough nutrients to survive. This organic matter is comprised of whatever local resources are available, and includes human corpses. The population of the hive uses whatever meager pay they have to buy other food items from traders as available, and finds other sources of nutrition if they can-- usually animal, such as sump rats.
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Post by: deathmetalcassette
Cream Tea wrote: Melissia wrote:I'm sure they exist, but they're unlikely and rare and probably nobility. The average hive worlder eats animal-based food products. I did not say they eat meat mind you. I wouldn't call most nutrient bars meat....
Vegetarian food is more efficient to produce both in energy and area required, though insects or something similar could be viable too. Algae are a good option. The point is, plants are cheap to grow.
Generally, a diet with higher percentages of animal-based products is associated with status, wealth and luxury. I can't see why it would be different in the 41st millennium.
Real fruit as meat are explicitly described as rare delicacies of the elite on Terra. Presumably the average grimdark mining planet Worker #2,376,407 has never even seen or tasted meat.
I wonder if Agri-world workers get a little more fresh food than other types? Even some lentil beans are probably a delicacy compared to the basic nutrient gruel people are described as eating in fiction.
Crickets or grubs would actually be a pretty logical protein source. Steak tartare most likely is not on the menu.
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Post by: Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl
I'm sure if India can have huge vegetarian populations, so can the Imperium.
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Post by: Melissia
Where do you grow enough vegetarian food for fifty billion people on a planet that has no arable soil?
Yes, there are some worlds where that might be possible. But India doesn't have anywhere close to the kinds of population density nor the kinds of industrial development that an Imperial Hive World has.
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Post by: Galas
Eating Orks counts?
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Post by: Melissia
While they are fungoid, Orks have more similarities to animals than to plants (in fact, fungi have more similarities to animals than plants in general)
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Post by: Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl
Melissia wrote:Where do you grow enough vegetarian food for fifty billion people on a planet that has no arable soil?
I don't know, but generally speaking raising cattle requires more space than growing plants because you need to raise some plant for your grox and some place for the grox itself, and it takes more plant to raise a grox to eat it than it takes to eat plants directly.
Also algae and stuff and whatever.
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Post by: Ynneadwraith
 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: Melissia wrote:Where do you grow enough vegetarian food for fifty billion people on a planet that has no arable soil?
I don't know, but generally speaking raising cattle requires more space than growing plants because you need to raise some plant for your grox and some place for the grox itself, and it takes more plant to raise a grox to eat it than it takes to eat plants directly.
Also algae and stuff and whatever.
This.
Producing enough meat to feed people is far more resource intensive than producing enough crops to feed people. There's only a few situations I can think of where meat would actually be a preferable source for feeding a large proportion of people.
1. The native plant-life is toxic or poisonous to humans (and you're unable to grow non-toxic plants), but native animals can eat it and you can eat the animals fine.
2. If the main limiting factor is transport capacity, then as meat has higher energy density then you can transport more calories per cubic metre than with plants (maybe unless the plants are processed?).
3. Native life doesn't subsist on plants via some quirk of alien biology, and you are unable to grow your own.
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Post by: Hatachi
Maybe the rich. I think the lower class would be a bit of a case of "Eat the slop we give you and you're going to like it."
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Post by: JohnnyHell
Hydroponically-grown vegetable proteins would be easier, cheaper, less resource intensive and less space-intensive than animal meat.
Feeding a vast overpopulated galaxy of people only makes sense with a vegetable-based diet.
For those two reasons alone the Imperium probably doesn't use it much. Technology, which has likely been forgotten, and practicality, which they seem to hate.
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Post by: epronovost
I would imagine a large portion of the Imperium follow the Irish diet: "potato and starvation". More seriously there a probably a lot more vegetarians than people who can eat meet. There must be an enormous quantity of people who feed exclusively on soy based meals because it's the only thing they can afford with cereals like rice and wheat or feculant like potatoes or turnips.
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Post by: Mr Morden
 JohnnyHell wrote:Hydroponically-grown vegetable proteins would be easier, cheaper, less resource intensive and less space-intensive than animal meat.
Feeding a vast overpopulated galaxy of people only makes sense with a vegetable-based diet.
For those two reasons alone the Imperium probably doesn't use it much. Technology, which has likely been forgotten, and practicality, which they seem to hate.
Is it cheaper than recylcing people as thats what some worlds of the Imperium def do? Corpse starch and other "foodstufffs" are a thing.
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Post by: Haighus
Melissia wrote: Cream Tea wrote:Vegetarian food is more efficient to produce both in energy and area required
Debatable. A large number of vegetarian staples are inefficient, especially regarding calories provided compared to water used. In fact, most vegetables are very inefficient calorie-wise, making them unsuitable for prolonged heavy labor as needed by the Imperium's citizens.
The Imperium doesn't provide fresh vegetables to most of its people, using hive planets as a basis for "most of its people" given the population density on those planets. It provides nutrient bars that have been crafted out of organic matter in a factory in order to provide the energy needed to get through the day and just enough nutrients to survive. This organic matter is comprised of whatever local resources are available, and includes human corpses. The population of the hive uses whatever meager pay they have to buy other food items from traders as available, and finds other sources of nutrition if they can-- usually animal, such as sump rats.
They are still more energy efficient per area grown though, except where animals are squeezed into gaps that cannot be practically used for growing produce (like pigs) or onto land not suitable for growing productive crops (like a lot of goats and sheep). Also, you would expect just the crops that are most efficient to be grown on mass (such as whatever algae is grown throughout the Imperium, as oft mentioned).
Honestly, I think the vast majority of Imperial citizens would be considered vegetarian aside from the fact they are fed recycled human corpses. Most will be fed reconstituted plant proteins (from algae) as well as plant matter produced on Agri worlds. Only the rich would get proper meat, and recycled human would be added to whatever gruel is fed to citizens on Hive worlds. Obviously, anyone who can catch a rat would likely eat it, but that doesn't really change the fact most Hive citizens will be eating an enforced veggie and human diet, with only a small amount of supplementation from Hive critters (rat-on-a-stick vendors perhaps?)
Based on where current tech if going, I suspect vat-grown nutrients will play a huge part of human nutrition (and likely does in 40k), and whilst technically some of these nutrients could be developed from animal sources, I'm not sure if that counts as not being vegetarian when the last animal killed was millennia ago...
This would be quite different in the underhive, where there are more critters and much more freedom for the occupants, so eating gribbly critters and food actually recognisable as something which grew would be more common.
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Post by: beradical
MechaEmperor7000 wrote:That gave me the mental image of an entire shrine world where vegetarianism is enforced with the death penalty to anyone eating meat. Knowing the Imperium, there probably is such a world.
You just created it, my Friend.
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Post by: the_scotsman
Almost certainly. Look at the highest instances of vegetarianism in the world correlated with the poorest countries. Meat is a luxury. Remember in biology class how any given layer of the food chain tends to have 10% of the biomass of the previous layer? that's because animals burn that much of the food they eat just staying alive, transferring it into kinetic and heat energy to keep their bodies going.
Anything that metabolizes does that. That's what makes plants much more efficient to sustain a population on than meat in general. the only time its super efficient to eat meat is when you've got a landscape that can't handle human-edible plants and you need the animals to help process and break down the food.
Think snow. And the difference in energy efficiency is still obvious: think about the difference in the population density in, say, medieval india and china and medieval norway where fish and meat were primary staples.
People saying vegetarianism would be some kind of unobtainable luxury in the 41st millenium... what?
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Post by: BrianDavion
the_scotsman wrote:
People saying vegetarianism would be some kind of unobtainable luxury in the 41st millenium... what?
I think they're trapped in modern thinking where vegitarism is sort of a hippy fad thing.
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Post by: Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl
BrianDavion wrote:I think they're trapped in modern thinking where vegitarism is sort of a hippy fad thing.
'cept in India ofc.
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Post by: the_scotsman
and china. And plenty of other poorer places in the world. Probably 99% of vegetarians that exist today don't even think of themselves as such, they just don't have access to meat. Even where it's a religious thing, plenty of people couldn't afford hardly any meat if they wanted to eat it, and you'll probably notice a bit of a correlation between "A custom/practice that a certain population happens to do and other populations don't do" and "A custom/practice that the god or gods that population believe in considers to be holy and very important to adhere to"
If a world in the imperium existed where the primary food source was vegetation, they'd probably develop a belief that it is heretical to consume the flesh of any of the emperor's creatures.
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Post by: Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl
India has way more vegetarians than China. Including many that could have access to meat if they wanted.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism_by_country#Demographics
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Post by: RedCommander
Anyone who can really decide for themselves, will also eat meat.
A human being needs both meat and vegetables to survive and thrive.
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Post by: Brotherjulian
Valhalla depended on vat grown algae in the old IG codexes
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Post by: RedCommander
And are these Valhallans the epitome of health and happiness?
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Post by: Mr_Rose
 RedCommander wrote:Anyone who can really decide for themselves, will also eat meat.
A human being needs both meat and vegetables to survive and thrive.
Both of theses statements are false. Not only are there hundreds of thousands of people who are clearly wealthy enough to afford meat (if they weren’t, restaurateurs wouldn’t offer vegetarian options) who choose not to consume meat, none of them are regularly dying of malnutrition or there would be public health warnings about the dangers of vegetarianism; even in places where they can’t afford meat, involuntary vegetarians are more likely to die of starvation than malnutrition.
Now, none of that is to say that meat isn’t really useful or tasty and all, but a requirement to live it is not.
As for the Valhallans; they were subject to a planetary invasion by Orks at the time, so probably not? Still they managed to turn out fighting-fit infantry so they must have been doing all right, seeing as how it takes two to five times the daily calories to fight a war than to sit at a desk typing up reports. Especially in a frozen hellhole like Valhalla.
Actually, question for the audience: does eating Ork count as a vegetable for dietary purposes?
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Post by: pelicaniforce
does eating Ork count as a vegetable for dietary purposes?
The functional characteristics of Ork boy/nob tissue would make it equivalent to eating meat. If the tissue has the metabolic and structural requirements of muscle or fat, then it will have the dietary characteristics of muscle or fat. Obviously Orks have genes to reproduce he "fungus" that colonizes their environment, but that isn't expressed in the edible part of a walking talking ork. It's like asking if eating a pork chop is the nutritional equivalent of eating a pig's brain. The two tissues do different things so they make different proteins and ECM, so they have different nutritional profiles.
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Post by: Brotherjulian
Mostly I think they were just hungry. Hard to grow crops or livestock on a perpetual ice cap
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Post by: JohnnyHell
RedCommander wrote:Anyone who can really decide for themselves, will also eat meat.
A human being needs both meat and vegetables to survive and thrive.
Untrue. Vegan bodybuilders exist. If you can look like a Catachan without consuming a single animal product your statements are patently false.
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Post by: thekingofkings
tyranids eat thier vegetables  every time they eat an orc world
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Post by: A Town Called Malus
 Brotherjulian wrote:
Mostly I think they were just hungry. Hard to grow crops or livestock on a perpetual ice cap
Still managed to make a nice cup of tea though.
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Post by: amanita
I was informed recently that the term 'vegan' derived from a word meaning 'bad hunter.'
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Post by: Co'tor Shas
Realistically speaking, much of the imperium would be vegitarian (although not by choice) as it is the most efficient way to feed a population. Agri-worlds are better off producing grain, legumes, and soy rather than meat as their main export.
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Post by: Irbis
Mr Morden wrote:
Is it cheaper than recylcing people as thats what some worlds of the Imperium def do? Corpse starch and other "foodstufffs" are a thing.
You only get one corpse per X decades. Ironically, 'corpse starch' would be a luxury, not a staple or filler like grimderp writers try to suggest.
Mr_Rose wrote:
Both of theses statements are false. Not only are there hundreds of thousands of people who are clearly wealthy enough to afford meat (if they weren’t, restaurateurs wouldn’t offer vegetarian options) who choose not to consume meat, none of them are regularly dying of malnutrition or there would be public health warnings about the dangers of vegetarianism; even in places where they can’t afford meat, involuntary vegetarians are more likely to die of starvation than malnutrition.
Now, none of that is to say that meat isn’t really useful or tasty and all, but a requirement to live it is not.
Wrong. Purely vegetarian diet means dying in your thirties (if you're lucky to live that long) from malnutrition. In that he is entirely correct. There are only two ways to counteract this - either you eat very carefully monitored, varied diet of plants from at least 4 continents that do happen to contain most of the needed nutrients (some of which, ironically, have to be shuttled daily on planes to supermarkets in rich countries, greatly contributing to your carbon footprint and utterly destroying any ecological benefit from not eating meat) or you need to eat diet supplement pills by a handful to get multiple vitamins that are only present in meat and/or only soluble in fat. It's very telling that before modern era there were cultures adapted to 100% meat diet (Inuits) but there was literally none adapted to 100% plant diet, they always got at least some animal-origin nutrients from somewhere. That is not to say vegetarian diet can't exist in 40K, hive world would probably manufacture said diet supplements by a bucketful and generously slop them on algae wafers or whatever.
As for claim dying of malnutrition is not a thing, this is exactly the kind of thinking that leads to this:
http://www.rense.com/general13/malni.htm
https://www.vegan.com/blog/angelina-jolie-claims-vegan-diet-nearly-killed-her/
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Post by: Co'tor Shas
That's what happens when you don't have the right stuff in your diet, it happens to people who eat meat as well. You really don't have to monitor your diet any more carefully. Protein and iron being the "hardest" to obtain on a no-meat diet, but soy is plentiful (the US is the largest producer of the stuff) and supplements are cheap. And soy is in much the same places as our cattle farms so there is really no difference in shipping. And meat is *really* inefficient when thinking about a totalitarian government who cares only that it's people can still work, not about their comfort.
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Post by: oldravenman3025
Humans, like most primates, are omnivores. Needed nutrition comes from both animal and plant products.
In our technological world, whether or not you get that needed nutrition from meat or plants is your choice. But absent that? You better get good a hunting and picking berries.
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Post by: Haighus
Not to mention the IoM has an extensive degree of genetic knowledge- they can use all kinds of GM crops to provide an adequate nutritional mix.
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Post by: Ynneadwraith
 Irbis wrote:Mr Morden wrote:
Wrong. Purely vegetarian diet means dying in your thirties (if you're lucky to live that long) from malnutrition. In that he is entirely correct. There are only two ways to counteract this - either you eat very carefully monitored, varied diet of plants from at least 4 continents that do happen to contain most of the needed nutrients (some of which, ironically, have to be shuttled daily on planes to supermarkets in rich countries, greatly contributing to your carbon footprint and utterly destroying any ecological benefit from not eating meat) or you need to eat diet supplement pills by a handful to get multiple vitamins that are only present in meat and/or only soluble in fat. It's very telling that before modern era there were cultures adapted to 100% meat diet (Inuits) but there was literally none adapted to 100% plant diet, they always got at least some animal-origin nutrients from somewhere. That is not to say vegetarian diet can't exist in 40K, hive world would probably manufacture said diet supplements by a bucketful and generously slop them on algae wafers or whatever.
As for claim dying of malnutrition is not a thing, this is exactly the kind of thinking that leads to this:
http://www.rense.com/general13/malni.htm
https://www.vegan.com/blog/angelina-jolie-claims-vegan-diet-nearly-killed-her/
Curious, considering that vegetarianism has been around since at least ancient Greece and India with little evidence of malnutrition, despite not having access to 'plants from 4 continents'.
Correct that we have evolved with an omnivorous diet with a significant meat proportion, but that's primarily because meat is efficient for the effort required to procure it on an individual level. Since the advent of agriculture it's perfectly possible to ensure adequate nutrition from plants alone with sod all additional management.
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Post by: Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl
Irbis wrote:Purely vegetarian diet means dying in your thirties (if you're lucky to live that long) from malnutrition.
Damn I'm going to die soon  .
Well, eating all those pasta was still worth it .
On my grave I want my epitaph to be “Irbis was right and also India doesn't exist and stuff!”
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Post by: oldravenman3025
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: Irbis wrote:Purely vegetarian diet means dying in your thirties (if you're lucky to live that long) from malnutrition.
Damn I'm going to die soon .
Well, eating all those pasta was still worth it .
On my grave I want my epitaph to be “Irbis was right and also India doesn't exist and stuff!”
If you eat beans and peanuts, you are getting key nutrients that is normally found in meat. That's how vegetarians manage to get by without dying from malnutrition.
But Ibris is right. A 100% pure veggie diet is not a good idea, health wise. Like I said before, Humans are omnivores. Not herbivores.
On the flip side, we're not carnivores either. So, a strictly meat diet isn't a good idea either.
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Post by: Desubot
 Haighus wrote:Not to mention the IoM has an extensive degree of genetic knowledge- they can use all kinds of GM crops to provide an adequate nutritional mix.
Assuming its not against some random ad mech or munitorium policy.
besides good chance that 90% of crops probably just end up being ground into shelf stable nutrition paste. probably a ton of bugs fungus and plant matter and stock animals.
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Post by: Iron_Captain
 oldravenman3025 wrote:
Humans, like most primates, are omnivores. Needed nutrition comes from both animal and plant products.
In our technological world, whether or not you get that needed nutrition from meat or plants is your choice. But absent that? You better get good a hunting and picking berries.
You don't need plant products though. Humans can easily thrive on meat alone (historically, many arctic cultures never had access to plants at all). We can also thrive on plants alone, but as has been mentioned in this thread already, this is much more precarious and either takes careful planning or the liberal use of food supplements.
I 40k, I imagine most of the average hive worlder's diet would be vegetarian (plants are more cost effective) in origin, but they certainly would not get any fresh vegetable or the like. They'd more likely get food in powdered form and such. I could also imagine things like synthetic meat being a big thing.
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Post by: Desubot
Speaking of synthetic meat
just tried the impossible burger.
not bad. but the texture is off and it has a odd bean after taste.
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Post by: Haighus
 Iron_Captain wrote: oldravenman3025 wrote:
Humans, like most primates, are omnivores. Needed nutrition comes from both animal and plant products.
In our technological world, whether or not you get that needed nutrition from meat or plants is your choice. But absent that? You better get good a hunting and picking berries.
You don't need plant products though. Humans can easily thrive on meat alone (historically, many arctic cultures never had access to plants at all). We can also thrive on plants alone, but as has been mentioned in this thread already, this is much more precarious and either takes careful planning or the liberal use of food supplements.
I 40k, I imagine most of the average hive worlder's diet would be vegetarian (plants are more cost effective) in origin, but they certainly would not get any fresh vegetable or the like. They'd more likely get food in powdered form and such. I could also imagine things like synthetic meat being a big thing.
As far as I understand, humans do not easily adapt to eating solely meat diets. The Artic peoples are actually heavily adapted to their environments, and have a greater tolerance for eating oily fish than the majority of people. This oily fish is what they need to get sufficient nutrition from an all-meat diet, but it is also what would kill less adapted humans. Fish oils have an anti-coagulant effect, and eating the quantities of fish Inuits eat causes most people to become hypocoagulable and die of anaemia and blood loss (in the time span of months to a few years). Inuits actually often do die due to bleeds of some kind, but they are less susceptible to this than non-Artic populations.
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Post by: Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl
oldravenman3025 wrote:If you eat beans and peanuts, you are getting key nutrients that is normally found in meat.
I'm pretty sure beans and peanuts aren't meat and are perfectly fine in a vegetarian diet though.
Meh eating pasta every evening isn't a good idea health wise doesn't stop me it's good and easy to cook.
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Post by: Haighus
If Italians can manage it, it can't be that bad for you- Italians have a great life expectancy!
https://youtu.be/tHKOsdLB4HE
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Post by: Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl
Haighus wrote:If Italians can manage it, it can't be that bad for you- Italians have a great life expectancy!
Italians don't eat pasta every evening, else how would they find time to eat pizza?
Wait I eat pizza too!
And I eat ice-cream too!
I have a very healthy diet. Really healthy! Nice.
I'm a very stable genius.
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Post by: Haighus
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: Haighus wrote:If Italians can manage it, it can't be that bad for you- Italians have a great life expectancy!
Italians don't eat pasta every evening, else how would they find time to eat pizza?
By eating pasta at lunch. Then you have time for pizza too  I joke but the guy in the video suggests eating pasta everyday is actually the norm in parts of Italy.
Wait I eat pizza too!
And I eat ice-cream too!
I have a very healthy diet. Really healthy! Nice.
I'm a very stable genius.
Sounds better than my diet...
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Post by: Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl
Well this noon I made myself a special delicacy. In my home town it's called a "Belgian". It's taking a baguette (famous French bread), opening it, putting ketchup and mayonnaise and plenty of french fries, and then eating it.
I'll live old and slim for sure .
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Post by: chromedog
Iron_Captain wrote: oldravenman3025 wrote:
Humans, like most primates, are omnivores. Needed nutrition comes from both animal and plant products.
In our technological world, whether or not you get that needed nutrition from meat or plants is your choice. But absent that? You better get good a hunting and picking berries.
You don't need plant products though. Humans can easily thrive on meat alone (historically, many arctic cultures never had access to plants at all). We can also thrive on plants alone, but as has been mentioned in this thread already, this is much more precarious and either takes careful planning or the liberal use of food supplements.
I 40k, I imagine most of the average hive worlder's diet would be vegetarian (plants are more cost effective) in origin, but they certainly would not get any fresh vegetable or the like. They'd more likely get food in powdered form and such. I could also imagine things like synthetic meat being a big thing.
I'd imagine it would be fairly easy to grow mushrooms in the underhive, too.
You'd get vitamin B from those, and there have been experiments with giving them texture (like chicken - back in the early 90s).
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Post by: Skinflint Games
Damn. This thread is making me have hungry.
But I can't decide what for...
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Post by: ChargerIIC
It should be noted that some regiments like the Mordant Acid Dogs come from places where the main form of sustenance is fortified algae.
Since 40k is fiction and doesn't have to follow any actual dietery laws, I bet there are tons of worlds whose grimdark is that they only have a single food source - some of which will be animal and some of which will be plant based.
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Post by: Lazzamore
Not sure if this has been brought up, But I seem to recall a Lexicanum article on the Imperium keeping alien cattle known as "Grox". Here's a link: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Grox EDIT: Ah! I remembered something else; I believe we've seen the evolution of the tau within the time humans have lived among the stars in the 40k universe. Seems plausible that some Humans on other planets would have evolved to eat different things available, some might even have become herbivores or carnivores.
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Post by: BrianDavion
 Lazzamore wrote:Not sure if this has been brought up, But I seem to recall a Lexicanum article on the Imperium keeping alien cattle known as "Grox".
Here's a link: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Grox
EDIT: Ah! I remembered something else; I believe we've seen the evolution of the tau within the time humans have lived among the stars in the 40k universe. Seems plausible that some Humans on other planets would have evolved to eat different things available, some might even have become herbivores or carnivores.
humans have evolved over time, it's where abhumans such as ratlings, ogyrens and squats all come from
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Post by: Samsonov
Did a lot of research before I became vegan. The only supplement which is recommended is B12 (this website summerises veganism and nutrients: https://www.peta.org/living/food/vegan-101-guide-for-new-vegans/vegans-guide-good-nutrition/) . Additionally, there are lots of scientific studies saying veganism results in a longer life. Meanwhile, the amount of resources required in terms of land and water is much less than meat and slightly less than vegetarian. If the Imperium aims to maximise efficiency then veganism is an excellent option because, compared to meat diets, it would allow normal (or even extended) life of its citizens whilst using up less resources to feed those citizens.
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Post by: Iron_Captain
 Samsonov wrote:Did a lot of research before I became vegan. The only supplement which is recommended is B12 (this website summerises veganism and nutrients: https://www.peta.org/living/food/vegan-101-guide-for-new-vegans/vegans-guide-good-nutrition/) . Additionally, there are lots of scientific studies saying veganism results in a longer life. Meanwhile, the amount of resources required in terms of land and water is much less than meat and slightly less than vegetarian.
If the Imperium aims to maximise efficiency then veganism is an excellent option because, compared to meat diets, it would allow normal (or even extended) life of its citizens whilst using up less resources to feed those citizens.
And there are plenty of scientific studies saying exactly the opposite, that it has no health effects or is even detrimental (like there is a study suggesting vegetarians are at increased risk of lung cancer). You can find a scientific study proving X is good or bad for your health for almost everything, so always take it with a big pinch of  . Especially if you take information from PETA.
Afaik, the mainstream scientific opinion still suggests that a varied and balanced diet including fish and unprocessed meat is optimal. Everything in moderation and with plenty of exercise of course.
Luckily, Imperial citizens will get plenty of exercise while working 25-hour shifts for the glory of the Emperor. A balanced and varied diet? Probably not at all.
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Post by: Samsonov
Very true, most biomedical research is at best tentative and large scale studies have a tendency of giving different results depending on various specifics of each experiment or due or varying populations being targeted. This is why I said veganism "would allow normal (or even extended) life of its citizens". I'm in for ethical reasons but it was nice to know there is no strong evidence that is reduces life expectancy.
Also, significant forces in the 40K universe take a monkish approach, such as space marines, sisters of battle, adeptus mechanicus. Monks often (in theory at least) favour a simple life without pleasure to consentrate on worship and I could easily imagine significant parts of the Imperium doing likewise. Hence meat might be considered too much of a luxury.
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Post by: Desubot
But marines can eat the flesh of their enemies to gain their knowledge.
wait does that mean a marine eating say a juicy steak will suddenly remember green pastures?
but yeah in theory 99% of the imperium would be eating mostly nutrition paste which probably contains mostly insects and vegetables. with the occasional nutrition rat and house hold pets.
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Post by: Iron_Captain
Space Marines eat their own poo. This is totally still canon.
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Post by: A Town Called Malus
So much for their advanced physiology. Can't even get all the nutrients and calories the first time through
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Post by: Zognob Gorgoff
Melissia wrote: Cream Tea wrote:Vegetarian food is more efficient to produce both in energy and area required
Debatable. A large number of vegetarian staples are inefficient, especially regarding calories provided compared to water used. In fact, most vegetables are very inefficient calorie-wise, making them unsuitable for prolonged heavy labor as needed by the Imperium's citizens.
Debatable you say, that’s odd everything I’ve read is to the contrary, so I say ok, let’s just google up some professional opinion.
The following is taken from a report by a professor on the cost of american farming (this is not vegan nonsense propaganda, no offence to anyone intended)
‘’Animal protein production requires more than eight times as much fossil-fuel energy than production of plant protein while yielding animal protein that is only 1.4 times more nutritious for humans than the comparable amount of plant protein’’
‘’If all the grain currently fed to livestock in the United States were consumed directly by people, the number of people who could be fed would be nearly 800 million‘’
‘’beef cattle production requires an energy input to protein output ratio of 54:1‘’
‘’Grain-fed beef production takes 100,000 liters of water for every kilogram of food‘’
‘’In comparison, soybean production uses 2,000 liters for kilogram of food produced; rice, 1,912; wheat, 900; and potatoes, 500’’
David Pimentel, professor of ecology in Cornell University's College of Agriculture and Life Sciences
This doesn’t take in to account the land needed to both grow the animals food and raise graze farm slaughter the animals and the impact they have on erosion, waste production, greenhouse gas. Simply put animals are tasty but wasteful, to think otherwise is to kid your self.
In all likeliness if it was ‘real’ they’d need to use every scrap they could so production of biofilm, algae, insects, fungus and recycled material would be very likely, only the rich could have real meat and fresh fruit. Some worlds isolated from the grind of the imperium however would be no different to here and everything would be on the table in a manner of speaking.
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Post by: Desubot
Doesn't seem like Melissia was saying that meat was better than vegetables but that a good portion of vegetables dont really provide much nutrition. and there are plenty that dont. (feth lettuces)
" biofilm, algae, insects, fungus and recycled material"
these are definitely the things that will be done on the most indoctrinated of worlds and pretty much all IG.
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Post by: Haighus
I am firmly in the crops are more efficient than meat camp, but with current tech it is not entirely true to say this. There is a lot of marginal land that is not suited to growing crops, but is able to sustain animal husbandry (the most obvious is goats, sheep and llamas in very mountainous regions). Sheep and llamas are a very interesting example because they also provide an extremely useful natural product (wool) during their life cycle, further driving up the utility. Obviously, within the context of 40k this is only useful on less developed worlds, so civilised, death, feral and feudal worlds (which would be eating diets similar to ours on Earth today). Anything beyond that and the industrial capacity and technological means would allow the marginal lands to be heavily modified into productive land. Hive world food production is obviously entirely artificial (and supplemented by offworld supplies from agri-worlds), as the natural biosphere on such planets is devastated beyond any capacity to sustain typical agriculture and husbandry. Also, the question of achieving adequate nutrition really is not comparable to today, because the "crops"* used are guaranteed to have 30,000 more years of selective breeding and genetic modification over what we have today. Most worlds will likely have a single crop that produces the correct nutrition mix for humans to survive off, probably with variants for specific jobs and roles (labourers having a greater calorific content in their diet than office workers for example). The alternative is growing several crops that are mixed in different proportions for different workers, but there would still likely only be a handful of crops. The crops grown will most likely vary between sectors, and between the specific conditions on each planet. We do know that the Imperium will unsustainably strip meat and other foodstuffs from undeveloped worlds, as shown in the Ravenor series, although such meat is likely sold as a luxury product only available to the middle class equivalent at the least. This is all from an organised perspective, in terms of the primary ways populations are fed on Imperial worlds. Obviously most hivers are not just going to eat their assigned gruel, but also spend their creds on rats-on-a-stick or mushrooms or alcohol etc, but these would be add-ons rather than the primary food source. *Using this term loosely to describe something being grown. I would think algae films/vats would be most likely, with entirely artificial nutrient vats also being possible.
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Post by: Desubot
Oh speaking of vats
just realized dkok uses horses. so thats one utility animal they do raise.
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Post by: Haighus
Desubot wrote:Oh speaking of vats
just realized dkok uses horses. so thats one utility animal they do raise.
"Horses" They are pretty heavily GM and are also grown in vats, as you mention. Like many of the DKoK themselves, funnily enough.
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Post by: Desubot
Vat grown meat
i love it.
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Post by: morganfreeman
Deleted.
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Post by: Samsonov
A recent scientific study suggests that a vegan diet produces much more food (including almost double the protein) for a particular area of land: "Imagine an area of land that can produce 100 grams of edible protein from plants. If you take that same amount of land and use it to produce eggs instead, you would end up with only 60 grams of edible protein — an "opportunity food loss" of 40%, the study authors found". There is even less protein from eating chicken, beef and pigs. http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-more-food-vegan-20180326-story.html
This suggests a vegan diet is a very realistic possibility unless the Imperium can genetically modify animals, or discover new ones, which allow for more efficient farming.
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Post by: Backspacehacker
On some shrine world maybe its possible? But for most forge, death, fortress, worlds you eat the glorious nutrient paste provided to you by the impirium made with love and care.
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Post by: Desubot
 Backspacehacker wrote:On some shrine world maybe its possible? But for most forge, death, fortress, worlds you eat the glorious nutrient paste provided to you by the impirium made with love and care.
delicious nutrition paste. all the nutrition, non of the flavor. pretty sure its going to be a ton of simple biomass like plants and algae Deathworlds like catachan... well im pretty sure they can eat whatever they can catch. everyone else probably subsidize their rations with whatever they can get locally as well. probably a lot of rodent meat.
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Post by: Rosebuddy
There are definitely Imperial planets that have ruled out animal protein as too inefficient for mass distribution and instead go all in on legumes, lentils, mushrooms, nuts, tofu etc.
kingleir wrote: MechaEmperor7000 wrote:That gave me the mental image of an entire shrine world where vegetarianism is enforced with the death penalty to anyone eating meat. Knowing the Imperium, there probably is such a world.
Every slice of the knife, a salute to death itself. Khorne cares not from where the blood flows, your steak will do.
I can just imagine Khorne vacationing at its steak throne.
Followers of Khorne would eat steak but not as a preference. Obviously the foods most pleasing to Khorne is made out of blood and innards. A planet ruled by a Khornate culture would prefer black pudding, beef marrow broth ramen topped with grilled slices of beef heart or spicy chicken heart stiry fry.
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Post by: Selym
I put it to you that Agri-worlds have millions of permanent resident farmers each that all eat a pretty much vegan diet consisting of real, actual, vegetables. As noted above, plant-grown food is more efficient per unit landmass than animals, so for efficiency's sake (and to ensure a surplus in case of destroyed Agri-worlds) most produce would be in that form. Some of this produce will get turned into nutrient paste, but this is a process that reduces the immediate efficiency of a food product unless you need to store it for a long time or combine it with other things for some reason. This means that for maximal efficiency, farmers would be eating from their own live crops, plus some neighbouring produce for variety if possible. Since we know that you need lots of Agri-worlds in the IOM, and that these will need planetary-scale maintenance and harvesting methods that could only conceivably operate with millions of attendant farmers, there are certain to be a huge number of people (in absolute terms) that get to eat a locally-sourced fresh vegan diet.
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Post by: ChargerIIC
 Selym wrote:I put it to you that Agri-worlds have millions of permanent resident farmers each that all eat a pretty much vegan diet consisting of real, actual, vegetables. As noted above, plant-grown food is more efficient per unit landmass than animals, so for efficiency's sake (and to ensure a surplus in case of destroyed Agri-worlds) most produce would be in that form. Some of this produce will get turned into nutrient paste, but this is a process that reduces the immediate efficiency of a food product unless you need to store it for a long time or combine it with other things for some reason. This means that for maximal efficiency, farmers would be eating from their own live crops, plus some neighbouring produce for variety if possible. Since we know that you need lots of Agri-worlds in the IOM, and that these will need planetary-scale maintenance and harvesting methods that could only conceivably operate with millions of attendant farmers, there are certain to be a huge number of people (in absolute terms) that get to eat a locally-sourced fresh vegan diet.
Two things I'm depressed to actually have read enough BL fiction to know:
1) Every time BL describes what's in Nutrient paste there is one common ingredient: People. You die working ont he farm, they throw your but into the next shipment. Worse, the one description I can find of harvesting techniques involved a giant combine that consumed the vegetables, plants, wild animals and whatever else happen to be in the fields at the time. The thing that always bugs me is that they never describe undressing the corpses before feeding them in. I wonder if a child occasionally find a partially shredded bone or bionic part in their morning paste and considers it a prize...
2) Most nutrient paste descriptions (aside from corpse-starch) list algae or fungus. This makes a lot of sense given how much more efficient than normal plants algae can be. You need less light, little to no arable ground, and for many types the water doesn't even have to be all that clean.
If algae farm paste with a little bit of your grandfather in it isn't Grimdark I don't know what is.
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Post by: Haighus
 ChargerIIC wrote: Selym wrote:I put it to you that Agri-worlds have millions of permanent resident farmers each that all eat a pretty much vegan diet consisting of real, actual, vegetables. As noted above, plant-grown food is more efficient per unit landmass than animals, so for efficiency's sake (and to ensure a surplus in case of destroyed Agri-worlds) most produce would be in that form. Some of this produce will get turned into nutrient paste, but this is a process that reduces the immediate efficiency of a food product unless you need to store it for a long time or combine it with other things for some reason. This means that for maximal efficiency, farmers would be eating from their own live crops, plus some neighbouring produce for variety if possible. Since we know that you need lots of Agri-worlds in the IOM, and that these will need planetary-scale maintenance and harvesting methods that could only conceivably operate with millions of attendant farmers, there are certain to be a huge number of people (in absolute terms) that get to eat a locally-sourced fresh vegan diet.
Two things I'm depressed to actually have read enough BL fiction to know:
1) Every time BL describes what's in Nutrient paste there is one common ingredient: People. You die working ont he farm, they throw your but into the next shipment. Worse, the one description I can find of harvesting techniques involved a giant combine that consumed the vegetables, plants, wild animals and whatever else happen to be in the fields at the time. The thing that always bugs me is that they never describe undressing the corpses before feeding them in. I wonder if a child occasionally find a partially shredded bone or bionic part in their morning paste and considers it a prize...
2) Most nutrient paste descriptions (aside from corpse-starch) list algae or fungus. This makes a lot of sense given how much more efficient than normal plants algae can be. You need less light, little to no arable ground, and for many types the water doesn't even have to be all that clean.
If algae farm paste with a little bit of your grandfather in it isn't Grimdark I don't know what is.
That I think sums up the average Imperial Citizen's diet perfectly, and I'm sigging the last line
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Post by: chyron
ChargerIIC wrote:
2) Most nutrient paste descriptions (aside from corpse-starch) list algae or fungus. This makes a lot of sense given how much more efficient than normal plants algae can be. You need less light, little to no arable ground, and for many types the water doesn't even have to be all that clean.
Actually algae or fungus makes most sense if food is locally-produced on hiveworld/forgeworld. Agriworlds (numerous compared to hives or civiized worlds) - are sparsely populated and more low-tech (and by AM and ours measures pretty inefficient on anything but ROI/upkeep). So - unless we talk seaweeds - algae and especially funguse are out of question for most of them as they need controlled environment . OTOH animals like grox " possessed many useful traits, such as the ability to survive in almost any environment and to thrive on even the most indigestible food. Grox meat itself is also extremely palatable and nutritious, and nearly every single part of the beast is edible" - and need minimal human supervision most of the time outside herding them toward processing plant and controlled breeding.
PS As for 'corpse starch'...these people are descendants of space colonists whose first waves were flying generation ships with necessarily pretty short but efficient ecological cycles. I think lot of their ancestors would saw ground burial as outrageously wasteful and antisanitary practice while preffered reclamation methods would depend mostly on mastered technology and energy quotas (ie cremation vs low-energy biological breakdown). Well, nowadays Indians still fish on Ganges river - while dispersing (not always fully cremated) ashes in it as burial...
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Post by: Haighus
chyron wrote: ChargerIIC wrote:
2) Most nutrient paste descriptions (aside from corpse-starch) list algae or fungus. This makes a lot of sense given how much more efficient than normal plants algae can be. You need less light, little to no arable ground, and for many types the water doesn't even have to be all that clean.
Actually algae or fungus makes most sense if food is locally-produced on hiveworld/forgeworld. Agriworlds (numerous compared to hives or civiized worlds) - are sparsely populated and more low-tech (and by AM and ours measures pretty inefficient on anything but ROI/upkeep). So - unless we talk seaweeds - algae and especially funguse are out of question for most of them as they need controlled environment . OTOH animals like grox " possessed many useful traits, such as the ability to survive in almost any environment and to thrive on even the most indigestible food. Grox meat itself is also extremely palatable and nutritious, and nearly every single part of the beast is edible" - and need minimal human supervision most of the time outside herding them toward processing plant and controlled breeding.
PS As for 'corpse starch'...these people are descendants of space colonists whose first waves were flying generation ships with necessarily pretty short but efficient ecological cycles. I think lot of their ancestors would saw ground burial as outrageously wasteful and antisanitary practice while preffered reclamation methods would depend mostly on mastered technology and energy quotas (ie cremation vs low-energy biological breakdown). Well, nowadays Indians still fish on Ganges river - while dispersing (not always fully cremated) ashes in it as burial...
Well, some agri-worlds use hydroponics and sound very high tech, so I think it varies on the agri world.
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Post by: chromedog
ChargerIIC wrote:
1) Every time BL describes what's in Nutrient paste there is one common ingredient: People.
Soylens viridiens is people! Spread the word.
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Post by: Lion of Caliban
MechaEmperor7000 wrote:I was watching Gordon Ramsay's Great Escape and in the third episode he visits a location where they only eat vegetarian meals (According to the video, you can't even rent an apartment there without adhering to a veggie diet). That got me wondering; are there vegetarians in 40k? We've heard about Corpsestarch and Soylent Veridians, but are there factions or worlds that adhere solely to a veggie diet?
On that note, do Orks count as Vegetarian/vegan? They eat squigs and gretchin, but since those are fungus-based lifeforms, wouldn't that technically make them vegetarians (or even vegans, since there's no "animal" products)?
I expect most eat some form of protien bars and the like. Meat isn't that rare in the Imperium, but neither are foods that could be classed as veggie. But I expect it depends on what world you're on. Some will be heavily veggie, some heavily meat eating, some a decent mix and some barely get any food at all and just eat each other. It likely depends on the affluence, location and importance of the world as to what the average citizen will eat but unless you're nobility then choice isn't going to be one of the factors at play.
As for the Orks question... Mind blown. I think that if they are fungus based then it's vegan. But they're also cannibals. So...Rise of the green cannibal vegans.
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Post by: chyron
 Lion of Caliban wrote:
As for the Orks question... Mind blown. I think that if they are fungus based then it's vegan. But they're also cannibals. So...Rise of the green cannibal vegans.
Orks - as other xenos - are outside current 'normal' definitions. And anything in orkoid ecology is chimeric way we has no real definition for.
But there's something form Holy Terra to think about:
https://gizmodo.com/scientists-just-found-a-completely-new-kind-of-symbioti-1794811939
https://www.amnh.org/explore/news-blogs/research-posts/salamander-symbiosis-stresses-green-algae/
And spotted salamanders are definitely animals...
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Post by: Arson Fire
I don't think orks are strictly vegan.
While I'm sure they can happily subsist on assorted squigs, I'm pretty sure there's fluff showing they're more than happy to eat anything else they can get their hands on too. For instance human prisoners.
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Post by: BigbyWolf
I remember several mentions of Orks eating humans in their 5th edition codex, sooooooooo no....
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh yeah and "Da Beast" actually farmed human meat on conquered human worlds. Some Iron Warriors actually attacked one of these worlds not knowing the Orks had already taken it and even they were disgusted by what they saw.
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