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Post by: Grimgold
In the codex it's mentioned that custodes won't let space marines within spears length of them because they don't trust them. It's also mentioned that the custodes are the only people in the imperium with complete access to everything the imperium knows, and quite a few things the rest of the imperium doesn't know. So what is it the Custodes know that makes them distrust space marines, my guess is it has something to do with the creation of the primarchs. I remember reading some old fluff that the creation of the primarchs required the emperor making a deal with the chaos gods, thus why the chaos gods were able to spirit away the primarchs from under the emps nose. Maybe there is some additional aspect of that deal that makes Marines more vulnerable to corruption by chaos, what do you guys think?
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Post by: Sgt_Smudge
I got the impression it was simply distrust from the whole Heresy. No Custodes (to my knowledge) have ever fallen, but nearly half of all Space Marines did. That's a good reason to distrust them.
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Post by: DarknessEternal
The Heresy.
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Post by: Grimgold
If My recollections of the HH books are correct, they didn't particularly like/trust them before the HH ethier.
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Post by: Galas
Custodes were the ones to kill the Thunder Warriors. Space Marines are just Thunder Warriors mk 2.
If the Webway project was completed, I'm sure the Custodes job would have been to kill the Space Marines that survived the Heresy.
You don't make friends with what you know you are supposed to kill.
(This based in the new lore from Warmaster)
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Post by: tneva82
 Galas wrote:Custodes were the ones to kill the Thunder Warriors. Space Marines are just Thunder Warriors mk 2.
If the Webway project was completed, I'm sure the Custodes job would have been to kill the Space Marines that survived the Heresy.
You don't make friends with what you know you are supposed to kill.
(This based in the new lore from Warmaster)
Yeah it's heavily implied whole Heresy was Emperor's plan to get marines exterminate themselves since the Crusade was being wrapped up. Custodians would be finishing off survivors.
Begs a question. Emperor has no qualms getting rid of used tools. Would this apply to Custodians? And if not what makes Custodians so special for Emperor that they would not be abandoned, killed and replaced with new tool for next job?
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Post by: Galas
Custodians are Emperor's friends, it is said many times that they are the only individuals in all of the imperium that the honestly feels sad when they die in battle.
They aren't tools, they aren't soldiers. They are phylosophers, statemans, artists, generals, they are equals, they talked to the emperor demigod to demigod. I believe only Malcador had a closer relationship with the Emperor than the Custodes.
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Post by: jhe90
Galas wrote:Custodians are Emperor's friends, it is said many times that they are the only individuals in all of the imperium that the honestly feels sad when they die in battle.
They aren't tools, they aren't soldiers. They are phylosophers, statemans, artists, generals, they are equals, they talked to the emperor demigod to demigod. I believe only Malcador had a closer relationship with the Emperor than the Custodes.
They are his elite, his imortal host.
Those that fell on ulinor where inscribed into his own armour.
They are also made from the emparors own self almost, incorruptible and never have fallen or betrayed Thete oaths. The only ones who ever have served directly alongside the emparor as part of his direct household.
There the one resource he loaths to spend.
Ans the custodes trust none other than Thete own or the emparor. Add marines where the ones that caused all the problems and many thousands have turned traitor since the Hersey. Only grey knights have a incorruptible record equal to them and the sisters of battle.
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Post by: Iracundus
Galas wrote:Custodians are Emperor's friends, it is said many times that they are the only individuals in all of the imperium that the honestly feels sad when they die in battle.
They aren't tools, they aren't soldiers. They are phylosophers, statemans, artists, generals, they are equals, they talked to the emperor demigod to demigod. I believe only Malcador had a closer relationship with the Emperor than the Custodes.
That's what the Custodes think. They could be fallible and wrong since we don't get to know the Emperor's view of things. It could be that they too in turn would have been expendable at some point for the Emperor.
We do know that in Watchers of the Throne, the Custodes or at least one of them, saw the Custodes as a template for a future improved humanity, rather than the Primarchs being so. This conflicts with earlier RL sources that said the Primarchs were the prototype for a future improved humanity. Again though, this is in-universe Custodes opinion, so it could be they have an inflated or false view of their own importance in the Emperor's plans.
Certainly in Watchers of the Throne, they had a mixed opinion of the Grey Knights, perhaps reflecting some latent anxiety about their own role. They saw the Grey Knights as siblings, in that both were created from the Emperor, but the Custodes naturally saw themselves as superior and the elder sibling. However they also had to acknowledge the Grey Knights seemed more suited for a universe where Chaos, magic, and the daemonic were widespread, so the Custodes may have been anxious about what place they had in the grand scheme, and whether perhaps the Grey Knights were the "improved" version of themselves.
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Post by: BrianDavion
yeah the GK/Custodes relationship is intreasting, makes sense too. the Custodes IMHO are "what the emperor wanted" the Grey Knights being what the emperor realized was needed
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Post by: jhe90
Iracundus wrote: Galas wrote:Custodians are Emperor's friends, it is said many times that they are the only individuals in all of the imperium that the honestly feels sad when they die in battle.
They aren't tools, they aren't soldiers. They are phylosophers, statemans, artists, generals, they are equals, they talked to the emperor demigod to demigod. I believe only Malcador had a closer relationship with the Emperor than the Custodes.
That's what the Custodes think. They could be fallible and wrong since we don't get to know the Emperor's view of things. It could be that they too in turn would have been expendable at some point for the Emperor.
We do know that in Watchers of the Throne, the Custodes or at least one of them, saw the Custodes as a template for a future improved humanity, rather than the Primarchs being so. This conflicts with earlier RL sources that said the Primarchs were the prototype for a future improved humanity. Again though, this is in-universe Custodes opinion, so it could be they have an inflated or false view of their own importance in the Emperor's plans.
Certainly in Watchers of the Throne, they had a mixed opinion of the Grey Knights, perhaps reflecting some latent anxiety about their own role. They saw the Grey Knights as siblings, in that both were created from the Emperor, but the Custodes naturally saw themselves as superior and the elder sibling. However they also had to acknowledge the Grey Knights seemed more suited for a universe where Chaos, magic, and the daemonic were widespread, so the Custodes may have been anxious about what place they had in the grand scheme, and whether perhaps the Grey Knights were the "improved" version of themselves.
Yeah in emparors legions, it's clear there more than just a military unit, theres more to them than just soldiers fighting a war.
The greyknights and far better suited to fighting deamons yes. That is there thing. Thr custodes and the grey knights are both specialised tools for specialist uses.
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Post by: Grimgold
I thought the thunder warriors were attacked by super human warriors clad in black power armor, which nicely matches the description of the first legion of space marines, the dark angels, who immediately replaced the thunder warriors.The emperor was loathe to commit the Custodes to battles when he could expend less useful troops in their stead. That's exciting because some of the Primaris dark angels might be of pre-caliban stock, meaning they could know how that really went down.
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Post by: VictorVonTzeentch
 Grimgold wrote:I thought the thunder warriors were attacked by super human warriors clad in black power armor, which nicely matches the description of the first legion of space marines, the dark angels, who immediately replaced the thunder warriors.The emperor was loathe to commit the Custodes to battles when he could expend less useful troops in their stead. That's exciting because some of the Primaris dark angels might be of pre-caliban stock, meaning they could know how that really went down.
The Thunder Warriors rebelled and the Custodes put them down. Any Primaris Dark Angels were likely only recruits at the time they were taken as well.
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Post by: AnomanderRake
BrianDavion wrote:yeah the GK/Custodes relationship is intreasting, makes sense too. the Custodes IMHO are "what the emperor wanted" the Grey Knights being what the emperor realized was needed
Kind of? The Grey Knights come across as more of a stopgap to me; they're an attempt to refine the Astartes to make them less vulnerable to Chaos (Marines 1.5 to the Primaris' 2.0, if you will) and a specialized Daemon-fighting force brought into being after Magnus' mess made a specialized Daemon-fighting force a thing that was necessary. The Custodes were made as bodyguards, confidants, and trusted agents able to enforce the Emperor's will across a larger Imperium in matters too sensitive to trust to more fallible operatives. Their eventual role on the frontlines of the War in the Webway was accidental, they were pressed into service there because they were the only force present that could be trusted to know what was going on as much as anything else.
So the Custodes were a force carefully designed for a completely different purpose used as a Daemon-fighting force in a manner not unlike that of a computer being used as a bludgeon (also in a manner not unlike that analogy getting shoehorned into that sentence, it's a good one but sort of tangentially applicable to the actual situation), while the Grey Knights are a Daemon-fighting force thrown together haphazardly and in haste but doing the thing for which they were designed.
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Post by: Ynneadwraith
Iracundus wrote: Galas wrote:Custodians are Emperor's friends, it is said many times that they are the only individuals in all of the imperium that the honestly feels sad when they die in battle.
They aren't tools, they aren't soldiers. They are phylosophers, statemans, artists, generals, they are equals, they talked to the emperor demigod to demigod. I believe only Malcador had a closer relationship with the Emperor than the Custodes.
That's what the Custodes think. They could be fallible and wrong since we don't get to know the Emperor's view of things. It could be that they too in turn would have been expendable at some point for the Emperor.
We do know that in Watchers of the Throne, the Custodes or at least one of them, saw the Custodes as a template for a future improved humanity, rather than the Primarchs being so. This conflicts with earlier RL sources that said the Primarchs were the prototype for a future improved humanity. Again though, this is in-universe Custodes opinion, so it could be they have an inflated or false view of their own importance in the Emperor's plans.
Certainly in Watchers of the Throne, they had a mixed opinion of the Grey Knights, perhaps reflecting some latent anxiety about their own role. They saw the Grey Knights as siblings, in that both were created from the Emperor, but the Custodes naturally saw themselves as superior and the elder sibling. However they also had to acknowledge the Grey Knights seemed more suited for a universe where Chaos, magic, and the daemonic were widespread, so the Custodes may have been anxious about what place they had in the grand scheme, and whether perhaps the Grey Knights were the "improved" version of themselves.
Agreed.
Not entirely certain anything is irreplacable for the Emperor.
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Post by: tneva82
Galas wrote:Custodians are Emperor's friends, it is said many times that they are the only individuals in all of the imperium that the honestly feels sad when they die in battle.
They aren't tools, they aren't soldiers. They are phylosophers, statemans, artists, generals, they are equals, they talked to the emperor demigod to demigod. I believe only Malcador had a closer relationship with the Emperor than the Custodes.
Are they? Emperor is shown showing different face to each persons. He makes primarch feels he is their friend and custodians aren't all that important. Then on custodes it's reversed.
One could arque is there ANYBODY that truly could be considered friend of Emperor or are all just tools for him in his quest of his grand goal. Automatically Appended Next Post:  VictorVonTzeentch wrote: Grimgold wrote:I thought the thunder warriors were attacked by super human warriors clad in black power armor, which nicely matches the description of the first legion of space marines, the dark angels, who immediately replaced the thunder warriors.The emperor was loathe to commit the Custodes to battles when he could expend less useful troops in their stead. That's exciting because some of the Primaris dark angels might be of pre-caliban stock, meaning they could know how that really went down.
The Thunder Warriors rebelled and the Custodes put them down. Any Primaris Dark Angels were likely only recruits at the time they were taken as well.
No Emperor decreed TW's time was up. Too unstable to be of use for next stage of Emperor's plan so they were to be put down replaced by marines who would have been replaced by something else had things gone as planned.
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
Master of Mankind has some good background on this. Several times the Emperor speaks directly to the Custodes and explains that the marines, including the primarchs, are weapons who thought they were his sons. But Custodeus are the real deal.
Of course the Emperor could just say this to everyone...
"Yes of course PDF trooper #455467, you PDF are my chosen ones!"
And just for my edification, what's the latest on making Custodeus? Can they still be made? Is there a geneseed equivalent or has the secret been lost?
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Post by: tneva82
 Kid_Kyoto wrote:Master of Mankind has some good background on this. Several times the Emperor speaks directly to the Custodes and explains that the marines, including the primarchs, are weapons who thought they were his sons. But Custodeus are the real deal.
Of course the Emperor could just say this to everyone...
No reason to think he wouldn't be able to put up different face. Would custodes be as happy to obey if Emperor flat out told them they are tools to be discarded later when he no longer needs them?
It's hard to say what his REAL meanings are especially as we don't get all that much from his POV.
edit: Mind you I prefer it this way. Something left to imagination is just good. Not everything should be spelled out. Things are already de-mystifying HH too much IMO.
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Post by: jhe90
Kid_Kyoto wrote:Master of Mankind has some good background on this. Several times the Emperor speaks directly to the Custodes and explains that the marines, including the primarchs, are weapons who thought they were his sons. But Custodeus are the real deal.
Of course the Emperor could just say this to everyone...
"Yes of course PDF trooper #455467, you PDF are my chosen ones!"
And just for my edification, what's the latest on making Custodeus? Can they still be made? Is there a geneseed equivalent or has the secret been lost?
Can be made. They where reduced to around 1000 in Hersey ends, they are stated in one new novel as having 10,000 ready for combat again. They take losses in one book and deploy some 4000 to combat.
(one battle, others held in reserves, secondary defense lines and taking command of the palaces vast garrison of guardsmen. They seem to have 1000+ guardsmen for some of thr custodes on the walls etc. )
Now they take losses but in a book set later they said to have rebuilt. Or a later section. Took a while but they can recover losses.
If not they would be extinct as there losses would exceed base by about 1.5 to 2 times over minimum.
The o ly thing is they are expensive and slow to make. Each one is a hand made, finely tuned rolls royce of a super human to a mass produced, regular mercades marine.
Still good. But one is far more expensive and difficult to produce.
There armour is also very expensive using a rare alloy reserved for them, Dorn and emparor. This power Armour, weapons etc also make the equipping of the 10,000 expensive process.
Not like marines who weapons, biology and so can be churned by the thousand.
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Post by: Iracundus
In the novel Dark Imperium, Guilliman concluded that the Emperor loves no one, save for perhaps the abstract idea of mankind. While that is admittedly still an in-universe opinion, it is perhaps the closest to being accurate, given that Guilliman actually directly interacted with the Emperor both before and now after the Heresy, whereas the Custodes of the current era don't interact with the Emperor they guard.
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Post by: Captyn_Bob
Maybe they've read the outcast dead.
Where an unarmed marine beats a custodes to death with his bare hands 
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Post by: Crazyterran
After the treatment Ra got in master of mankind, I would argue more loved tools, but tools the same.
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Post by: Iracundus
My personal theory/headcanon is that the Emperor doubled down on the coldness after succumbing to affection for Horus (or perhaps it was pride and hesitation at having to destroy his finest creation). The Emperor was not infallible despite what 40K in-universe Imperial characters might believe.
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Post by: Grimgold
Iracundus wrote:In the novel Dark Imperium, Guilliman concluded that the Emperor loves no one, save for perhaps the abstract idea of mankind. While that is admittedly still an in-universe opinion, it is perhaps the closest to being accurate, given that Guilliman actually directly interacted with the Emperor both before and now after the Heresy, whereas the Custodes of the current era don't interact with the Emperor they guard.
When the emperor revealed his plan for mankind, even the custode he was "talking" too called it hubris. The reveal that humanity is a time bomb and going to blow up the galaxy was dire, but the emperor's plan to brainwash all of humanity to save humanity and the galaxy was the moment I was convinced the emperor is the villain of the 40k narrative. I now wonder if that's the point of the horus heresy books, to take the shine off of the emperors halo, show him not as a man, but as an insane megalomaniac who if he can't save humanity his way will make humanity extinct.
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Post by: BrianDavion
Grimgold wrote:Iracundus wrote:In the novel Dark Imperium, Guilliman concluded that the Emperor loves no one, save for perhaps the abstract idea of mankind. While that is admittedly still an in-universe opinion, it is perhaps the closest to being accurate, given that Guilliman actually directly interacted with the Emperor both before and now after the Heresy, whereas the Custodes of the current era don't interact with the Emperor they guard.
When the emperor revealed his plan for mankind, even the custode he was "talking" too called it hubris. The reveal that humanity is a time bomb and going to blow up the galaxy was dire, but the emperor's plan to brainwash all of humanity to save humanity and the galaxy was the moment I was convinced the emperor is the villain of the 40k narrative. I now wonder if that's the point of the horus heresy books, to take the shine off of the emperors halo, show him not as a man, but as an insane megalomaniac who if he can't save humanity his way will make humanity extinct.
I'd argue if he coul;dn't save humanity extinction was garenteed anyway
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
Iracundus wrote:My personal theory/headcanon is that the Emperor doubled down on the coldness after succumbing to affection for Horus (or perhaps it was pride and hesitation at having to destroy his finest creation). The Emperor was not infallible despite what 40K in-universe Imperial characters might believe.
That was actually explicit in the old Realms of Chaos books. In the classic Emp vs Horus story it explains that in order to kill his beloved son the Emperor had to divorce himself from any sense of compassion or love, leading to the grimdark Imperium we all know and love.
(his good side went on to form the Star Child and fuel the Sensei who were later killed off/retconned... ah well)
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Post by: Iracundus
Kid_Kyoto wrote:Iracundus wrote:My personal theory/headcanon is that the Emperor doubled down on the coldness after succumbing to affection for Horus (or perhaps it was pride and hesitation at having to destroy his finest creation). The Emperor was not infallible despite what 40K in-universe Imperial characters might believe.
That was actually explicit in the old Realms of Chaos books. In the classic Emp vs Horus story it explains that in order to kill his beloved son the Emperor had to divorce himself from any sense of compassion or love, leading to the grimdark Imperium we all know and love.
(his good side went on to form the Star Child and fuel the Sensei who were later killed off/retconned... ah well)
The Sensei were never retconned. Just because an Inquisitor thinks they were a Tzeentch cult does not make that the case. People need to distinguish between in-universe opinions, which are fallible, and out of universe narrator information.
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
I base my assessment on the fact they've not been mentioned in any context in... 20 years?
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Post by: Iracundus
Kid_Kyoto wrote:I base my assessment on the fact they've not been mentioned in any context in... 20 years?
Lack of mention is not evidence of absence.
The Scourging of Lammas has not been mentioned for about 12 years. Doesn't mean it didn't happen.
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Post by: BrianDavion
Getting back on topic, when one reads the short story Magistrium, it's obvious Constine Valdor holds Primarchs in exceptionally low regard. and he considers, in light of the heresy, their creation to be a mistake. so yeah I suspect the custodes generally don't think very highly of space marines in general. this makes their support of Gulliman actually intreasting. if even the custodes are throwing the dice on a primarch and a new breed of space marines...
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Post by: Iracundus
BrianDavion wrote:Getting back on topic, when one reads the short story Magistrium, it's obvious Constine Valdor holds Primarchs in exceptionally low regard. and he considers, in light of the heresy, their creation to be a mistake. so yeah I suspect the custodes generally don't think very highly of space marines in general. this makes their support of Gulliman actually intreasting. if even the custodes are throwing the dice on a primarch and a new breed of space marines...
I don't think the Custodes have any say in this. For them to give the Emperor's sword to Guilliman to wield, suggests they must have received some form of communication/sign/dream/vision from the Emperor as I cannot see them disposing of their master's possessions without permission.
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Post by: jhe90
Iracundus wrote:BrianDavion wrote:Getting back on topic, when one reads the short story Magistrium, it's obvious Constine Valdor holds Primarchs in exceptionally low regard. and he considers, in light of the heresy, their creation to be a mistake. so yeah I suspect the custodes generally don't think very highly of space marines in general. this makes their support of Gulliman actually intreasting. if even the custodes are throwing the dice on a primarch and a new breed of space marines...
I don't think the Custodes have any say in this. For them to give the Emperor's sword to Guilliman to wield, suggests they must have received some form of communication/sign/dream/vision from the Emperor as I cannot see them disposing of their master's possessions without permission.
They would not let him anyway near the throne if they did not want to. They despite being a primarch hold complete control of the inner Palace, security, and access.
No one else in 10,000 years was given the weapon. Not even during the scouring and such. Not vulkan during the beast.
Obviously somthing changed.
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Post by: Crazyterran
Thought Guilliman got the Sword from Cawl, it was the thing Cawl was keeping on his flagship during Gathering Storm that pissed Abaddon off so much?
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Post by: jhe90
 Crazyterran wrote:Thought Guilliman got the Sword from Cawl, it was the thing Cawl was keeping on his flagship during Gathering Storm that pissed Abaddon off so much?
Well the sword is kinda massively powerful and it's particularly lethal vs deamons.
Even when Guliman uses it he feels it has capability he cannot unlock, In his hands, the powerful weapon could unlock its full strengh.
Not sure if flagship or Terra..
I know the weapon is quite potant vs deamons and chaos though.
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Post by: Iracundus
Crazyterran wrote:Thought Guilliman got the Sword from Cawl, it was the thing Cawl was keeping on his flagship during Gathering Storm that pissed Abaddon off so much?
There is conflict between Gathering Storm and the novel Dark Imperium. In Gathering Storm, Guilliman had it upon revival. In Dark Imperium on page 309, it is described as being taken "from the Emperor's withered knee and presented to Guilliman by the Captain-General of the Adeptus Custodes."
One possible reconciliation between these is that Guilliman had it, presented to the Emperor. The Custodes laid it on the Emperor's knee. Maybe it was just ceremony, or maybe it was re-empowered/recharged in some way. Then when the audience was finished, the sword was presented again to Guilliman.
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Post by: pm713
They're already making inconsistencies? Wow.
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Post by: Iracundus
Of course they are. The authors at GW and BL make errors both great and small. I've spotted big continuity/plot errors in Gav Thorpe's Eldar novels and pointed them out on his blog. The Gathering Storm and Watchers of the Throne novel are in conflict over the sequence of events with the former seemingly portraying Guilliman arriving to a normally functioning Terra, whereas the latter appears to portray him arriving in the midst of the daemonic invasion of Terra.
I swear I could probably do a better job of keeping track of their continuity for them than their current crew...but my day job pays more.
I think the real reason GW introduced the Chronostrife and stopped giving dates for events in the Codex releases is to avoid having to deal with continuity in the first place.
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Post by: VictorVonTzeentch
tneva82 wrote:
VictorVonTzeentch wrote: Grimgold wrote:I thought the thunder warriors were attacked by super human warriors clad in black power armor, which nicely matches the description of the first legion of space marines, the dark angels, who immediately replaced the thunder warriors.The emperor was loathe to commit the Custodes to battles when he could expend less useful troops in their stead. That's exciting because some of the Primaris dark angels might be of pre-caliban stock, meaning they could know how that really went down.
The Thunder Warriors rebelled and the Custodes put them down. Any Primaris Dark Angels were likely only recruits at the time they were taken as well.
No Emperor decreed TW's time was up. Too unstable to be of use for next stage of Emperor's plan so they were to be put down replaced by marines who would have been replaced by something else had things gone as planned.
The Custodes Codexs (I know I know, more changing of stuff) mentions the TW finding out that was part of the plan and were upset that they were to be cast aside. So boom, Rebellion and the Custodes put them down. Automatically Appended Next Post:
Welcome to Guy Haley.
Though to be perfectly fair, The Emperor's Legion by Chris Wright, describes Valoris as one hell of an ugly dude who uses a Spear, but his model he looks normal and uses an Ax. Plus the whole Custodes and SoS are supposed to be a combined force when they stomp around the Galaxy, but its Codex Adeptus Custodes, not Codex: Talons of the Emperor - Adeptus Custodes
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Post by: TwilightSparkles
The Thunder Warriors found out about the genetic death clock built into them , hence the rebellion. The actual plan is they die out. Quickly.
Turns out the clock can be stalled , a storyline started in Outcast Dead.
Codex Custodes also covers the Custodes recruitment - Terra's noble houses offer up their infant sons to the Custodes , and the tech to create them is still in laboratories. Those who pass and are successfully modified leave their old identity behind and are so unrecognisable that it allows the noble houses to claim they have a Custode in their bloodline, when in reality most fail. So Custodes are 100% Terrans.
Lot of snippets in the Codex - they have a plan to destroy Phalanx if needed......
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Post by: BrianDavion
in fairness my parents wouldn't reckonzige me today if they last saw me as a baby
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Post by: Formosa
Kid_Kyoto wrote:I base my assessment on the fact they've not been mentioned in any context in... 20 years?
Not quite true, there was a very subtle nod to them, the audio book following vengeful spirit where the perpetual mother is looking for her child, and meets up with the ex lunar wolf, he notices a faded tatoo on her, an eye within a triangle, illuminati.
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
 Formosa wrote: Kid_Kyoto wrote:I base my assessment on the fact they've not been mentioned in any context in... 20 years?
Not quite true, there was a very subtle nod to them, the audio book following vengeful spirit where the perpetual mother is looking for her child, and meets up with the ex lunar wolf, he notices a faded tatoo on her, an eye within a triangle, illuminati.
Codex Sensei confirmed!
Should I play an Illuminati warband or a fallen Grey Sensei...
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Post by: Formosa
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Formosa wrote: Kid_Kyoto wrote:I base my assessment on the fact they've not been mentioned in any context in... 20 years?
Not quite true, there was a very subtle nod to them, the audio book following vengeful spirit where the perpetual mother is looking for her child, and meets up with the ex lunar wolf, he notices a faded tatoo on her, an eye within a triangle, illuminati.
Codex Sensei confirmed!
Should I play an Illuminati warband or a fallen Grey Sensei...
Wolf mother! Pretty sure that was the book! Aaaanyway, it did make me wonder if any other little nods were scattered around.
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Post by: Mr. Funktastic
On a related note, are the Custodes believers of the Imperial Truth, that the Emperor isn't a god and never wanted to be worshiped as such? If so I can only imagine how they view the rest of the Imperium.
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Post by: Audustum
Mr. Funktastic wrote:On a related note, are the Custodes believers of the Imperial Truth, that the Emperor isn't a god and never wanted to be worshiped as such? If so I can only imagine how they view the rest of the Imperium.
Absolutely. Aside from the Primarchs, they knew him best as an actual person and had the most face time with him. They're definitely old school Imperial Truth.
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Post by: Mr. Funktastic
Even the newer Custodes that weren't around during the Heresy? Makes sense, especially since they essentially have their own culture and they more or less operate separately from the rest of the Imperium. Since they're raised since infancy the Imperial Truth is probably all they've known, even in the current setting.
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Post by: Audustum
Mr. Funktastic wrote:Even the newer Custodes that weren't around during the Heresy? Makes sense, especially since they essentially have their own culture and they more or less operate separately from the rest of the Imperium. Since they're raised since infancy the Imperial Truth is probably all they've known, even in the current setting.
They still hang out in the Palace all the time and, according to Guilliman, Emps can still talk to people in the throne room if he wants to. It's not improbable that they feel his will all over the place. Older Custodes probably fill in the rest with stories.
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Post by: slade the sniper
Audustum wrote:Mr. Funktastic wrote:Even the newer Custodes that weren't around during the Heresy? Makes sense, especially since they essentially have their own culture and they more or less operate separately from the rest of the Imperium. Since they're raised since infancy the Imperial Truth is probably all they've known, even in the current setting.
They still hang out in the Palace all the time and, according to Guilliman, Emps can still talk to people in the throne room if he wants to. It's not improbable that they feel his will all over the place. Older Custodes probably fill in the rest with stories.
What? Where is this? So Emperor with a text to speech device is canon??? LOL
- STS
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Post by: tneva82
If Inquisitor has been able to speak him that we know of why wouldn't he be able to talk somehow? Maybe not all the time(maybe it's very taxing or something) but complete silence has been debunked in novels loooong time ago.
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Post by: AnomanderRake
tneva82 wrote:If Inquisitor has been able to speak him that we know of why wouldn't he be able to talk somehow? Maybe not all the time(maybe it's very taxing or something) but complete silence has been debunked in novels loooong time ago.
Able != willing. Imagine for the moment the Emperor said "Here are some secrets, tell nobody about this conversation".
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Post by: Iracundus
This is what it says about the Custodes from their Codex:
Each aspirant endures thousands of hours of such psycho-indoctrination and mnemic conditioning. Their education is mercilessly absolute, information beaten into the metal of their minds at a punishing rate that drives many mad. They must grasp not only the tenets of warfare in all its forms, and learn every method of assassination, counter-espionage, threat recognition and death dealing known to Mankind,but also expand their minds in far more esoteric directions. Diplomacy and statecraft, astrogation and interstellar geography, history, philosophy, theosophy, artistry and countless other subjects must all be mastered to a breathtakingly high degree.
Much of this education is a throwback to the days when the Custodians were expected not only to provide the Emperor with protection, but also counsel and conversation. It has become a tradition applied by rote, but still its benefits are apparent. Not only does such an avalanche of information screen out those whose psyches are not sufficiently robust, but it further ensures that–almost alone in a dark and dreadful age–the Adeptus Custodes retain the enlightenment and perspective commonplace during the Great Crusade. Of course,with such blessings comes a tragic comprehension of the depths to which the Imperium has sunk; it is a credit to the Adeptus Custodes that such a realisation does not drive them to despair.
Codex Adeptus Custodes, p. 14
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Post by: tneva82
 AnomanderRake wrote:tneva82 wrote:If Inquisitor has been able to speak him that we know of why wouldn't he be able to talk somehow? Maybe not all the time(maybe it's very taxing or something) but complete silence has been debunked in novels loooong time ago.
Able != willing. Imagine for the moment the Emperor said "Here are some secrets, tell nobody about this conversation".
Well yeah how much he wants to talk is of course another thing but seeing he seems to regard custodians about highest of stuff he's with(certainly higher than thunder warriors, marines or primarch) maybe he's less tight lipped with them giving some orders from time to time.
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Post by: An Actual Englishman
How could anyone still believe the Imperial Truth while literally fighting the avatar of a malevolent god?
Surely cracks in your belief appear as to there being no gods or magic when you can literally see evidence of gods and magic all around you?
Or does the Imperial Truth rationalise even the gods of Chaos and the immaterium?
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Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:I got the impression it was simply distrust from the whole Heresy. No Custodes (to my knowledge) have ever fallen, but nearly half of all Space Marines did. That's a good reason to distrust them.
Pretty much this.
Once bitten, twice shy.
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
 An Actual Englishman wrote:How could anyone still believe the Imperial Truth while literally fighting the avatar of a malevolent god?
Surely cracks in your belief appear as to there being no gods or magic when you can literally see evidence of gods and magic all around you?
Or does the Imperial Truth rationalise even the gods of Chaos and the immaterium?
What was it Terry Prachett wrote? It's hard to be an atheist when the gods go around breaking people's windows.
That being said, yeah it's like the old debate is comics. Is Thor (or whoever) a 'god' or just a really powerful extradimensional being?
Would an enlightened Imperial citizen consider a Hive Tyrant or Wraith Knight a god or avatar? If not then why consider a Bloodthrister or Plague Bearer anything other than an other-dimensional monster powered by ambient psychic energy.
It might be the same thing in practice, but they fit into very different points of view.
Also if the Emperor is not a god but just a really, really great guy, that explains why you have to work extra special hard to protect him.
As Captain Kirk once said, why does god need a space ship?
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Post by: Iracundus
Post-Heresy I suspect the stance is more that these entities are not gods, in the sense of entities deserving of divine honors and worship, not that they don't exist.
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Post by: BrianDavion
even at the highest levels of the IoM during the great crusade, chaos entities where known about (Horus for example knew chaos deamons existed) and yeah the party line was just "extra dimensional aliens"
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Post by: Umak
Well, Chaos Gods really aren't "Gods" in the same sense that people thought about Gods in humanity's history. They're extra-dimensional parasites that feed on the emotions of humanity, and have gotten so powerful from this that they are able to basically cut lumps of themselves off and send those lumps off to do battle on their behalf. They can be understood from a scientific perspective, and thus are not "God" in the same sense, that, say, Jehovah is an all-powerful deity that created the Universe and can control everything in it.
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Post by: Iracundus
Only monotheistic religions have ever really demanded their gods be all powerful or to have created the universe. Polytheistic religions of the past and the present seem perfectly happy with more limited or fallible gods.
Some ancient Greeks took the same stance with regards to the Greek gods. While not denying their existence, since there were so many phenomena they could not otherwise explain, they did argue the capricious and selfish gods of the Olympian pantheon were not entities deserving of worship or being granted divine honors of sacrifice and ritual. That the Olympians' behavior fell short of a certain moral threshold was the basis of their rejection rather than any requirement of having created the universe or any claim to omnipotence or omniscience.
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Post by: An Actual Englishman
Lol i can just imagine the IoM propaganda on this;
- They're not gods, just interdimensional beings that are immortal and really, really powerful.
- That's not a daemon you fool! Clearly it's just a smaller interdimensional being that phases in and put of existence!
- Daemonic possession? Idiot! It's clearly an interdimensional parasite that feeds off the thoughts of its host and can merge with them.
- Is it magic or the application of the forces of another realm to create otherwise impossible effects in the real world?
Out of interest has GW ever confirmed one way or another or are they leaving it suitably vague? I kinda like the idea that the Chaos gods are both entities of another realm and gods in their own right. It kinda makes them more chaotic.
Back on topic I don't understand why the Custodes are all non psykers when they were made of the same stuff as the most powerful psyker in humanity's history?
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Post by: Iracundus
An Actual Englishman wrote:Lol i can just imagine the IoM propaganda on this;
- They're not gods, just interdimensional beings that are immortal and really, really powerful.
- That's not a daemon you fool! Clearly it's just a smaller interdimensional being that phases in and put of existence!
- Daemonic possession? Idiot! It's clearly an interdimensional parasite that feeds off the thoughts of its host and can merge with them.
- Is it magic or the application of the forces of another realm to create otherwise impossible effects in the real world?
Out of interest has GW ever confirmed one way or another or are they leaving it suitably vague? I kinda like the idea that the Chaos gods are both entities of another realm and gods in their own right. It kinda makes them more chaotic.
Back on topic I don't understand why the Custodes are all non psykers when they were made of the same stuff as the most powerful psyker in humanity's history?
Those points about the Chaos powers and psychic powers/magic is a valid view of the universe. Where the Imperial Truth failed in the Great Crusade was in trying to deny the existence of such things to the wider populace, for fear that faced with sufficiently powerful entities many people would fall down in worship. Given how many cults there are in the Imperium, to warp entities or to aliens, arguably their view of humanity's susceptibility to worship any powerful figure was arguably right. The Eldae built their civilization on the basis of psychic energy being another force that can be manipulated in reproducible reliable fashion.
The Custodes are not psychic because they were engineered that way as part of the process that made them Custodes. They got that save against mortal wounds from psychic powers (explained as the powers inexplicably flickering out). Perhaps the process rechannels the latent psychic ability of the aspirant into that psychic resistance. Rather than manipulating warp energies externally maybe the process makes them like "physical adepts" to use a Shadowrun term, channeling their magic through their bodies. Eldar exarchs similarly achieve some of their powers through psychic energy yet are not considered psykers.
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
An Actual Englishman wrote:
Back on topic I don't understand why the Custodes are all non psykers when they were made of the same stuff as the most powerful psyker in humanity's history?
Because the sculpt for the Custodes Librarian wasn't ready yet.
They'll have psykers by next Christmas. 
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Post by: An Actual Englishman
Kid_Kyoto wrote: An Actual Englishman wrote:
Back on topic I don't understand why the Custodes are all non psykers when they were made of the same stuff as the most powerful psyker in humanity's history?
Because the sculpt for the Custodes Librarian wasn't ready yet.
They'll have psykers by next Christmas.
I've actually worked it out. Of course they're all psykers but they're channeling the entirety of their psychic might into making their armour EXTRA gold. 
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Post by: darkcloak
After watching Text to Speech I think I know why Custodes don't like SM...
:cue edgy dance mix
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Post by: jhe90
Iracundus wrote: An Actual Englishman wrote:Lol i can just imagine the IoM propaganda on this;
- They're not gods, just interdimensional beings that are immortal and really, really powerful.
- That's not a daemon you fool! Clearly it's just a smaller interdimensional being that phases in and put of existence!
- Daemonic possession? Idiot! It's clearly an interdimensional parasite that feeds off the thoughts of its host and can merge with them.
- Is it magic or the application of the forces of another realm to create otherwise impossible effects in the real world?
Out of interest has GW ever confirmed one way or another or are they leaving it suitably vague? I kinda like the idea that the Chaos gods are both entities of another realm and gods in their own right. It kinda makes them more chaotic.
Back on topic I don't understand why the Custodes are all non psykers when they were made of the same stuff as the most powerful psyker in humanity's history?
Those points about the Chaos powers and psychic powers/magic is a valid view of the universe. Where the Imperial Truth failed in the Great Crusade was in trying to deny the existence of such things to the wider populace, for fear that faced with sufficiently powerful entities many people would fall down in worship. Given how many cults there are in the Imperium, to warp entities or to aliens, arguably their view of humanity's susceptibility to worship any powerful figure was arguably right. The Eldae built their civilization on the basis of psychic energy being another force that can be manipulated in reproducible reliable fashion.
The Custodes are not psychic because they were engineered that way as part of the process that made them Custodes. They got that save against mortal wounds from psychic powers (explained as the powers inexplicably flickering out). Perhaps the process rechannels the latent psychic ability of the aspirant into that psychic resistance. Rather than manipulating warp energies externally maybe the process makes them like "physical adepts" to use a Shadowrun term, channeling their magic through their bodies. Eldar exarchs similarly achieve some of their powers through psychic energy yet are not considered psykers.
Also Emperor made them, they have his, himself in them so cannot be corrupted by chaos, or at least very protected from.
it could be a hangover of there emparor orogins that they have a latent defense vs Psyker attack.
of course as designed alongside sisters of silence in battle, well there weakness is covered by sisters. they Null, Custodes are ultimate warriors
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Post by: Nurglitch
I think it's more about their motivations. Instead of desiring power for themselves they're designed to only want to protect the Emperor and his plans, and where those are antithetical to those of the Dark Powers and their daemons they're incorruptible. There's a passage in the Master of Mankind where a daemon doesn't even try to possess a Custodes because it would take thousands of years to do so. Presumably because they'd only be corruptible once all that remains of their original purpose was erased.
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Post by: jhe90
Nurglitch wrote:I think it's more about their motivations. Instead of desiring power for themselves they're designed to only want to protect the Emperor and his plans, and where those are antithetical to those of the Dark Powers and their daemons they're incorruptible. There's a passage in the Master of Mankind where a daemon doesn't even try to possess a Custodes because it would take thousands of years to do so. Presumably because they'd only be corruptible once all that remains of their original purpose was erased.
I still think there genetic link to emparor may also provide extra protection. Ie they have in them, a tiny slice of him, that helps render then unwelcome hosts for the deamon and warp powers.
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Post by: Lord Fishface
An Actual Englishman wrote:Lol i can just imagine the IoM propaganda on this;
- They're not gods, just interdimensional beings that are immortal and really, really powerful.
- That's not a daemon you fool! Clearly it's just a smaller interdimensional being that phases in and put of existence!
- Daemonic possession? Idiot! It's clearly an interdimensional parasite that feeds off the thoughts of its host and can merge with them.
- Is it magic or the application of the forces of another realm to create otherwise impossible effects in the real world?
That’s pretty much exactly how the empiricist Fabius Bile sees them, so yeah.
An Actual Englishman wrote:Out of interest has GW ever confirmed one way or another or are they leaving it suitably vague? I kinda like the idea that the Chaos gods are both entities of another realm and gods in their own right. It kinda makes them more chaotic.
What do you mean by ‘gods in their own right’? We, the readers, know more-or-less definitively what Khorne, Slaanesh, Nurgle and Tzeentch are: embodiments of sentient beings’ desires that have acquired some form of awareness. We also know what they are not: they didn’t create the universe, they don’t judge the dead (though they may well eat them),and they are not all-powerful.
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Post by: kronk
Grimgold wrote:If My recollections of the HH books are correct, they didn't particularly like/trust them before the HH ethier.
Right.
They are the Emperor's protector. It is their job to protect Him from any threat, foreign, xenos, neverborn, or domestic. They give no feths about being rude. They answer ONLY to the Emperor, and they bow only to the Emperor (the last part is from The Master of Mankind novel).
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Post by: jhe90
 kronk wrote: Grimgold wrote:If My recollections of the HH books are correct, they didn't particularly like/trust them before the HH ethier.
Right.
They are the Emperor's protector. It is their job to protect Him from any threat, foreign, xenos, neverborn, or domestic. They give no feths about being rude. They answer ONLY to the Emperor, and they bow only to the Emperor (the last part is from The Master of Mankind novel).
Yeah, they can not even be ordered via a inquisitor lord, or anyone but the emparor or own.
They also have his personal authority in old fluff and right to kill anyone they see fit.
They give no feths to anyone but the emparor.
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Post by: BrianDavion
they still have the authority to pretty much do as they want. Th Custodes alone are above ALL Law, save that of the Emperor's direct command
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Post by: MrMoustaffa
Kid_Kyoto wrote:I base my assessment on the fact they've not been mentioned in any context in... 20 years?
Funnily enough I'm pretty sure I remember a regimental standard article mentioning them. Of course that's just a joke article but it was good for a laugh at least. I think it was the one that talks about the different types of Inquisitors
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Post by: Ynneadwraith
Nurglitch wrote:I think it's more about their motivations. Instead of desiring power for themselves they're designed to only want to protect the Emperor and his plans, and where those are antithetical to those of the Dark Powers and their daemons they're incorruptible. There's a passage in the Master of Mankind where a daemon doesn't even try to possess a Custodes because it would take thousands of years to do so. Presumably because they'd only be corruptible once all that remains of their original purpose was erased.
The reason I'm always skeptical of the incorruptibility of Custodes is...how many other things have the Imperium designed that work entirely as intended?
Especially when it comes to genetic engineering...
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Post by: BrianDavion
 Ynneadwraith wrote:Nurglitch wrote:I think it's more about their motivations. Instead of desiring power for themselves they're designed to only want to protect the Emperor and his plans, and where those are antithetical to those of the Dark Powers and their daemons they're incorruptible. There's a passage in the Master of Mankind where a daemon doesn't even try to possess a Custodes because it would take thousands of years to do so. Presumably because they'd only be corruptible once all that remains of their original purpose was erased.
The reason I'm always skeptical of the incorruptibility of Custodes is...how many other things have the Imperium designed that work entirely as intended?
Especially when it comes to genetic engineering...
in this case all of em, something about the emperor's own DNA does seem to make you resistant to the warp
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Post by: Fridge_Opener
Custodes know that marines ruined the imperium and as a result can never be trusted and deserve to die and view them as "their natural prey".
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Post by: pm713
Fridge_Opener wrote:Custodes know that marines ruined the imperium and as a result can never be trusted and deserve to die and view them as "their natural prey".
Big E ruined things. Marines were just the tool he did it with.
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Post by: Fridge_Opener
pm713 wrote:Fridge_Opener wrote:Custodes know that marines ruined the imperium and as a result can never be trusted and deserve to die and view them as "their natural prey".
Big E ruined things. Marines were just the tool he did it with.
Nah man The Emperor was on the cusp of succeeding when through artifice and ineptitude the marines and their failed test tube fathers ruined it all.
106439
Post by: Ynneadwraith
Fridge_Opener wrote:pm713 wrote:Fridge_Opener wrote:Custodes know that marines ruined the imperium and as a result can never be trusted and deserve to die and view them as "their natural prey".
Big E ruined things. Marines were just the tool he did it with.
Nah man The Emperor was on the cusp of succeeding when through artifice and ineptitude the marines and their failed test tube fathers ruined it all.
Test-tube fathers the Emperor fethed up...
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Post by: Fridge_Opener
Ynneadwraith wrote:Fridge_Opener wrote:pm713 wrote:Fridge_Opener wrote:Custodes know that marines ruined the imperium and as a result can never be trusted and deserve to die and view them as "their natural prey".
Big E ruined things. Marines were just the tool he did it with.
Nah man The Emperor was on the cusp of succeeding when through artifice and ineptitude the marines and their failed test tube fathers ruined it all.
Test-tube fathers the Emperor fethed up...
I feel I can do better than test tube fathers but didnt want to put test tube baby daddy in
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
Fridge_Opener wrote:
Nah man The Emperor was on the cusp of succeeding when through artifice and ineptitude the marines and their failed test tube fathers ruined it all.
Stupid Magnus doesn't know how to send a @#$%ing text message.
Had to get all fancy-smanshy with his SorSor-E app.
"But dad no one texts anymore! SorSor-E lets me send pics, emojis and even live video!"
"Leman go take away his iphone will you!"
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Post by: pm713
Fridge_Opener wrote:pm713 wrote:Fridge_Opener wrote:Custodes know that marines ruined the imperium and as a result can never be trusted and deserve to die and view them as "their natural prey".
Big E ruined things. Marines were just the tool he did it with.
Nah man The Emperor was on the cusp of succeeding when through artifice and ineptitude the marines and their failed test tube fathers ruined it all.
Basic parenting would have stopped at least three Primarchs going traitor. Even without that the Emperors big plan was pretty stupid.
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Post by: Iron_Captain
Ynneadwraith wrote:Fridge_Opener wrote:pm713 wrote:Fridge_Opener wrote:Custodes know that marines ruined the imperium and as a result can never be trusted and deserve to die and view them as "their natural prey".
Big E ruined things. Marines were just the tool he did it with.
Nah man The Emperor was on the cusp of succeeding when through artifice and ineptitude the marines and their failed test tube fathers ruined it all.
Test-tube fathers the Emperor fethed up...
It was not really his fault though. Chaos kidnapped the Primarchs before the project was completed.
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Post by: Racerguy180
 Iron_Captain wrote: Ynneadwraith wrote:Fridge_Opener wrote:pm713 wrote:Fridge_Opener wrote:Custodes know that marines ruined the imperium and as a result can never be trusted and deserve to die and view them as "their natural prey".
Big E ruined things. Marines were just the tool he did it with.
Nah man The Emperor was on the cusp of succeeding when through artifice and ineptitude the marines and their failed test tube fathers ruined it all.
Test-tube fathers the Emperor fethed up...
It was not really his fault though. Chaos kidnapped the Primarchs before the project was completed.
to be fair, big E did do something to piss them off.
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Post by: tneva82
Fridge_Opener wrote:pm713 wrote:Fridge_Opener wrote:Custodes know that marines ruined the imperium and as a result can never be trusted and deserve to die and view them as "their natural prey".
Big E ruined things. Marines were just the tool he did it with.
Nah man The Emperor was on the cusp of succeeding when through artifice and ineptitude the marines and their failed test tube fathers ruined it all.
Seeing marines started killing each other just as planned not really.
106439
Post by: Ynneadwraith
Iron_Captain wrote: Ynneadwraith wrote:Fridge_Opener wrote:pm713 wrote:Fridge_Opener wrote:Custodes know that marines ruined the imperium and as a result can never be trusted and deserve to die and view them as "their natural prey".
Big E ruined things. Marines were just the tool he did it with.
Nah man The Emperor was on the cusp of succeeding when through artifice and ineptitude the marines and their failed test tube fathers ruined it all.
Test-tube fathers the Emperor fethed up...
It was not really his fault though. Chaos kidnapped the Primarchs before the project was completed.
Which was a setback, which the Emperor handled incredibly poorly (and may have cause himself by bargaining with the Gods in the primarch's creation).
It's one of the best things about his character. For all his might and intelligence, he had some glaring character faults...
84364
Post by: pm713
Ynneadwraith wrote: Iron_Captain wrote: Ynneadwraith wrote:Fridge_Opener wrote:pm713 wrote:Fridge_Opener wrote:Custodes know that marines ruined the imperium and as a result can never be trusted and deserve to die and view them as "their natural prey".
Big E ruined things. Marines were just the tool he did it with.
Nah man The Emperor was on the cusp of succeeding when through artifice and ineptitude the marines and their failed test tube fathers ruined it all.
Test-tube fathers the Emperor fethed up...
It was not really his fault though. Chaos kidnapped the Primarchs before the project was completed.
Which was a setback, which the Emperor handled incredibly poorly (and may have cause himself by bargaining with the Gods in the primarch's creation).
It's one of the best things about his character. For all his might and intelligence, he had some glaring character faults...
The issue is they're ridiculous character faults compared to how he's portrayed.
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Post by: Grimgold
Everytime someone mentions Malcadors boast that the heresy was planned, I can't help but think of the All according to plan trope. Considering how he iced the thunder warriors the second they were no longer useful though, I suppose a plan to kill the space marines in a similar manner isn't too out of character for him.
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Post by: pm713
It's not but the Heresy is not that plan. At a conceptual level it's terrible.
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Post by: Grimgold
It might have worked if the emperor wasn't outplayed by tzeentch, with a human webway the loyalist legions would have had a huge advantage over the traitor legions, and then the custodes and Solar auxilia could have made sure the loyalist chapters also had a glorious last battle against the traitor legions.
The question is what does he do with the primarchs, they are way too dangerous to let live, and far too capable to assume they would all just kill each other.
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Post by: pm713
They'd be at a huge disadvantage as the Eldar destroy them in travel. That's the problem with the Webway project it forgets Eldar exist and that invading the Webway is probably the best way of unifying them.
The damaged ones like Angron get sent into a battle against a threat they can't beat along with some Custodes and they die. Ones like Girlyman become administrators and ones like Russ lead the army.
If you really want to kill off the Legions which is probably a bad idea then you don't instigate a civil war to do it.
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Post by: Grimgold
I don't know, even during the heresy there weren't enough eldar to really matter. Certainly no force the eldar can scrape together currently could match a full legion.
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Post by: pm713
You don't need to. You leave one Wraithguard and seal off that section of the Webway and let the Daemons in. An endless horde of Daemons is more than a match.
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Post by: BrianDavion
pm713 wrote:You don't need to. You leave one Wraithguard and seal off that section of the Webway and let the Daemons in. An endless horde of Daemons is more than a match.
" WE CAN'T LET THE HUMANS INTO THE WEBWAY! QUICK LET'S FLOOD IT WITH SOMETHING EVEN WORSE!"
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Post by: Grimgold
pm713 wrote:You don't need to. You leave one Wraithguard and seal off that section of the Webway and let the Daemons in. An endless horde of Daemons is more than a match.
Most of the webway is already infested with demons, not like endless streams, but there are enough holes that travel thru the webway is dangerous if you are not at least as badass as a harlequin troupe. A lone wraithguard is a tasty eldar soul wrapped in hard candy exterior, so i doubt they would make a very good sentinel. Also given that the eldar can no longer maintain the webway I'm sure they would be loathe to damage it further.
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Post by: pm713
You can seal sections off so only the human bit gets demons inside.
It's nowhere near that dangerous. You can travel through it and be fine most of the time.
You don't need a sentinel. You see the Imperium coming and then set off any D weaponry. You probably could make a timed version.
Damaging is way better than losing it and going extinct.
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Post by: CthuluIsSpy
Is it really wise for the emperor to kill off the marines though?
I mean, weren't they designed to police his Empire as relatively stable, long term soldiers?
The reason why he killed off the Thunder Warriors was because they were faulty prototypes. They were short lived, violent and unstable. If you are trying to maintain a galaxy wide empire, the last thing you need is for your soldiers to go insane and start attacking your worlds, thus resulting in you having to waste your time trying to put them down.
Marines, in theory, weren't supposed to have that problem, but in practice they were more loyal to the Primarchs rather to him, which is a factor in how the heresy started.
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Post by: Nurglitch
I got the impression that Eldar (Aeldari) look down on the human tactic of scorched earth.
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Post by: pm713
 Nurglitch wrote:I got the impression that Eldar (Aeldari) look down on the human tactic of scorched earth.
They look down on using Hemlock fighters too. They still get used.
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Post by: Nurglitch
The important thing is that the Aeldari get to look down on someone. It's bad enough that humans are just apes wearing hats.
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