It’s a stupid, pendatic middle finger thrust at their customer base. No other game company (that I am aware of) shrinkwraps their book’s content, making it impossible for folks to peruse it before deciding to buy. It’s one reason I haven’t bought any of the 8E codexs, but did buy the indexes -as the indexes weren’t shrinkwrapped and I could take a peak inside to know what I’m getting.

My local GW has an open copy of every codex.

Wow, that's quite the first world problem right there. But in seriousness, if it's in a GW, why not just ask to look at the stores copy? Or if it's a LGS, why not ask if they have an open copy or if not, if you can just remove the shrink-wrap?

 Stormonu wrote:
It’s a stupid, pendatic middle finger thrust at their customer base. No other game company (that I am aware of) shrinkwraps their book’s content, making it impossible for folks to peruse it before deciding to buy. It’s one reason I haven’t bought any of the 8E codexs, but did buy the indexes -as the indexes weren’t shrinkwrapped and I could take a peak inside to know what I’m getting.

What exactly do you need to peruse that isn't visible in their kits? Are you worried that the army is going to be under powered? Surely it isn't the fluff tipping you over into a purchase.

I mean, Google exists. Plus you will know everything wrong with every codex just by popping on this forum.

It's not as if it is all that difficult to see what is in their books, I mean GW themselves practically spoils HALF of what is in each codex the week before release. As others have said you can also search up Google and see even more...

It is a pain, sure.
But, would you want to buy a book the previous customers had mauled and put back? The price they charge, they have to protect their stock.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I mean, Google exists. Plus you will know everything wrong with every codex just by popping on this forum.

Exactly - why even bother wrapping the book up when the whole thing has been spoiled on places like Dakka. It’s an annoyance that makes me feel like GW is treating me like a child - or worse, a theif.

And to my knowldege, the FLGS doesn’t have keep story copies (no GW store in over a few hundred miles).

 Stormonu wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I mean, Google exists. Plus you will know everything wrong with every codex just by popping on this forum.

Exactly - why even bother wrapping the book up when the whole thing has been spoiled on places like Dakka. It’s an annoyance that makes me feel like GW is treating me like a child - or worse, a theif.

And to my knowldege, the FLGS doesn’t have keep story copies (no GW store in over a few hundred miles).

To preserve the quality of the book. Thumbing through a book and handling it winds up with scratches, torn pages, etc. For what I pay I want a pristine book.

It prevents the thing from being damaged - so I like that feature. The only reason to have the codex at this point is so you have have something that looks nice and smells good when you open it.

 Xenomancers wrote:
It prevents the thing from being damaged - so I like that feature. The only reason to have the codex at this point is so you have have something that looks nice and smells good when you open it.

Pretty much. I'm addicted to that damn smell. I almost never open my codex. It's more of a book I casually peruse to stimulate thought once I memorize the rules. Points I do elsewhere.

Its not a library. ether buy the book, ask to see a store beater copy or ask one of the locals.

why should Gw let you thumb through sell-able stock.

To me, not providing each of their stores with store copies of the codices and indices is pretty much unacceptable. Let's say that a newer player (who either doesn't know much about Warhammer or doesn't know much about/have much time to spend on Warhammer forums) has decided he/she doesn't want to play either army in the starter set they bought. So, this person goes into a store (FLGS or GW) and wants to start a new army. How are they going to know what army they want to play without some kind of look into the rules/fluff for any given army (be it a quick perusal of just the datasheets themselves to an in-depth read of a couple of chapters of fluff)?

It really doesn't make any sense.

SG

 ServiceGames wrote:
To me, not providing each of their stores with store copies of the codices and indices is pretty much unacceptable. Let's say that a newer player (who either doesn't know much about Warhammer or doesn't know much about/have much time to spend on Warhammer forums) has decided he/she doesn't want to play either army in the starter set they bought. So, this person goes into a store (FLGS or GW) and wants to start a new army. How are they going to know what army they want to play without some kind of look into the rules/fluff for any given army (be it a quick perusal of just the datasheets themselves to an in-depth read of a couple of chapters of fluff)?

It really doesn't make any sense.

SG

It wouldnt make much sense maybe 15-20 years ago when the only way you hear about the game is word of mouth or stumbling into a store blind. but nowadays if some one wants to start a fresh army they look on line and see people talking about it so should have a general idea of what they should be getting.

 ServiceGames wrote:
To me, not providing each of their stores with store copies of the codices and indices is pretty much unacceptable. Let's say that a newer player (who either doesn't know much about Warhammer or doesn't know much about/have much time to spend on Warhammer forums) has decided he/she doesn't want to play either army in the starter set they bought. So, this person goes into a store (FLGS or GW) and wants to start a new army. How are they going to know what army they want to play without some kind of look into the rules/fluff for any given army (be it a quick perusal of just the datasheets themselves to an in-depth read of a couple of chapters of fluff)?

It really doesn't make any sense.

SG

https://warhammer40000.com/
https://warhammer40000.com/setting/explore-the-factions/

 Desubot wrote:
It wouldnt make much sense maybe 15-20 years ago when the only way you hear about the game is word of mouth or stumbling into a store blind. but nowadays if some one wants to start a fresh army they look on line and see people talking about it so should have a general idea of what they should be getting.

I would agree for the vast majority of people, but there will be exceptions to the rule. There will be those people that don't have access to the internet at work. And, when they do get a break and can possibly look around with their phone, it's not long enough to really get to know, in-depth, what they want to know about a new army.

Now, let's add a few other very realistic restrictions in the mix. Let's say they are married with a child or two children. So, in essence, they are 30min per day modelers and painters (after the kid has gone to bed but before they have to get things ready for the next day at work and get to bed themselves). But, let's also say that their wife/husband enjoys either hanging out with friends or just having some alone time with the kid(s) every other weekend or so. That gives this person time to go play a few games on those weekends. His/her models may not all be painted, but they will probably look better than last time they played.

I only bring this up because this is about to be me. Now, thankfully, I can access the internet from work, so I don't have to worry about not being able to spend time on the web/message boards. But, I will soon be marrying a wonderful, amazing woman who has a son that I love to death. My time to paint/model will be cut down to probably 30 mins per day at max (maybe more on the weekends). And, game time will be cut significantly as well.

I have a feeling there are several people out there exactly like what I described above who would love to start a new army but don't know where to start as time is a big limitation. Either they play or spend an entire weekend researching a new army.

SG


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
https://warhammer40000.com/
https://warhammer40000.com/setting/explore-the-factions/

See above.

SG

 ServiceGames wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
It wouldnt make much sense maybe 15-20 years ago when the only way you hear about the game is word of mouth or stumbling into a store blind. but nowadays if some one wants to start a fresh army they look on line and see people talking about it so should have a general idea of what they should be getting.

I would agree for the vast majority of people, but there will be exceptions to the rule. There will be those people that don't have access to the internet at work. And, when they do get a break and can possibly look around with their phone, it's not long enough to really get to know, in-depth, what they want to know about a new army.

Now, let's add a few other very realistic restrictions in the mix. Let's say they are married with a child or two children. So, in essence, they are 30min per day modelers and painters (after the kid has gone to bed but before they have to get things ready for the next day at work and get to bed themselves). But, let's also say that their wife/husband enjoys either hanging out with friends or just having some alone time with the kid(s) every other weekend or so. That gives this person time to go play a few games on those weekends. His/her models may not all be painted, but they will probably look better than last time they played.

I only bring this up because this is about to be me. Now, thankfully, I can access the internet from work, so I don't have to worry about not being able to spend time on the web/message boards. But, I will soon be marrying a wonderful, amazing woman who has a son that I love to death. My time to paint/model will be cut down to probably 30 mins per day at max (maybe more on the weekends). And, game time will be cut significantly as well.

I have a feeling there are several people out there exactly like what I described above who would love to start a new army but don't know where to start as time is a big limitation. Either they play or spend an entire weekend researching a new army.

SG

I dunno, if one has time to actually travel and visit the store, then it seems they have enough time to use the internet at a public place like a Starbucks or library to do a little research. Plus, worst case scenario, they could just ask the GW/FLGS employee for suggestions. And given the cost and time investment most armies are, you should put time and thought before going balls deep into an army.

 ServiceGames wrote:
I would agree for the vast majority of people, but there will be exceptions to the rule. There will be those people that don't have access to the internet at work. And, when they do get a break and can possibly look around with their phone, it's not long enough to really get to know, in-depth, what they want to know about a new army.

Now, let's add a few other very realistic restrictions in the mix. Let's say they are married with a child or two children. So, in essence, they are 30min per day modelers and painters (after the kid has gone to bed but before they have to get things ready for the next day at work and get to bed themselves). But, let's also say that the wife/husband enjoys either hanging out with friends or just having some alone time with the kid(s) every other weekend or so. That gives this person time to go play a few games on those weekends. His/her models may not all be painted, but they will probably look better than last time they played.

I only bring this up because this is about to be me. Now, thankfully, I can access the internet from work, so I don't have to worry about not being able to spend time on the web/message boards. But, I will soon be marrying a wonderful, amazing woman who has a son that I love to death. My time to paint/model will be cut down to probably 30 mins per day at max (maybe more on the weekends). And, game time will be cut significantly as well.

I have a feeling there are several people out there exactly like what I described above who would love to start a new army but don't know where to start as time is a big limitation. Either they play or spend an entire weekend researching a new army.

SG

You're just conjuring ridiculous scenarios to support an absurd stance.

You think they can just sit down with a book and "get to know a faction" at the store? Why do they need to do that during a break at work? How exactly does kids prevent that more than sitting at a shop reading a book? I have three of them by the way.

I mean heaven forbid if they suddenly get a bout of diarrhea or a meteor strike knocks out the power when they try to read something on the internet!

 ServiceGames wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
It wouldnt make much sense maybe 15-20 years ago when the only way you hear about the game is word of mouth or stumbling into a store blind. but nowadays if some one wants to start a fresh army they look on line and see people talking about it so should have a general idea of what they should be getting.

I would agree for the vast majority of people, but there will be exceptions to the rule. There will be those people that don't have access to the internet at work. And, when they do get a break and can possibly look around with their phone, it's not long enough to really get to know, in-depth, what they want to know about a new army.

Now, let's add a few other very realistic restrictions in the mix. Let's say they are married with a child or two children. So, in essence, they are 30min per day modelers and painters (after the kid has gone to bed but before they have to get things ready for the next day at work and get to bed themselves). But, let's also say that their wife/husband enjoys either hanging out with friends or just having some alone time with the kid(s) every other weekend or so. That gives this person time to go play a few games on those weekends. His/her models may not all be painted, but they will probably look better than last time they played.

I only bring this up because this is about to be me. Now, thankfully, I can access the internet from work, so I don't have to worry about not being able to spend time on the web/message boards. But, I will soon be marrying a wonderful, amazing woman who has a son that I love to death. My time to paint/model will be cut down to probably 30 mins per day at max (maybe more on the weekends). And, game time will be cut significantly as well.

I have a feeling there are several people out there exactly like what I described above who would love to start a new army but don't know where to start as time is a big limitation. Either they play or spend an entire weekend researching a new army.

SG


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
https://warhammer40000.com/
https://warhammer40000.com/setting/explore-the-factions/

See above.

SG

In a world of smart phones and tablets this is a bit of a stretch. Also do you have the rulebook? It has a fluff synopsis of every faction available, no need to read that in the codex before you buy it. It also has pictures of just about every army. So the only reason to want to do this is power gaming, wanting to read the rules before you buy. Most of these are available on multiple online sources and if you are concerned with powergaming you will find the time to look at those sources.

Breng77 wrote:

In a world of smart phones and tablets this is a bit of a stretch. Also do you have the rulebook? It has a fluff synopsis of every faction available, no need to read that in the codex before you buy it. It also has pictures of just about every army. So the only reason to want to do this is power gaming, wanting to read the rules before you buy. Most of these are available on multiple online sources and if you are concerned with powergaming you will find the time to look at those sources.

The rules are as much a part of the product as the models, or the fluff or anything else are so long as you're playing the game. It is as reasonable for someone to want to purchase a unit with a great stats, or that just fits their play-style as much one that they like the design of or that just has a great sculpt. They make the information for one kind of decision making readily will full color photos all over the box, they restrict the information for the other kind of decision making by locking it behind plastic wrap.

That 3rd parties and external apps can be pursued outside the immediate purchasing experience is immaterial. If the models came in plain white boxes with just the stats printed on them and no indication of their appearance or fluff, it would be equally as annoying. The fact one could look up preview articles or find fan galleries of the model would be immaterial to the fact it would be hard quickly see them at a glance in the store.

Is sealing off the rules & stats a game-breaker? No. Would making them as openly available pictures of the models and fluff blurbs improve the game? Certainly.

Other games and game companies do this and it works well. It's certainly only ever gotten them more of my business, not less.

 Desubot wrote:
Its not a library. ether buy the book, ask to see a store beater copy or ask one of the locals.

why should Gw let you thumb through sell-able stock.

Because I can do so with every other RPG book in a bookstore?

If your retailer won’t open a copy for you to look through if you seriously intend to buy it and your decision hinges on reading it then they aren’t worth buying from.

I suspect however that no-one has ever looked through a Codex and from that very look-through decided whether to buy. You either have the army/intend to buy the army and need the rules or you don’t. In this age, all the info you’d need ahead of time is available online.

Shrinkwrapping=bad is about the strangest anti-GW complaint I’ve ever heard!

Please understand that read all of your opinions. Unfortunately, none of those opinions has actually caused me to sway my opinion. It's not about power gaming. It's not about wanted anything for free. It's wanting the most up to date information when you have responsibilities that can keep you busy from the time you get home until your kid goes to bed... especially when they are young and need a lot of structure and interaction.

SG


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Shrinkwrapping=bad is about the strangest anti-GW complaint I’ve ever heard!

Really? I promise you'll hear a lot stranger complaints in your lifetime. This one is very, very, very, very low on the list of strange even if I didn't agree.

SG

 JohnnyHell wrote:


I suspect however that no-one has ever looked through a Codex and from that very look-through decided whether to buy. You either have the army/intend to buy the army and need the rules or you don’t. In this age, all the info you’d need ahead of time is available online.

You would be wrong in that assessment. 5E Necrons for me. Also, would not have purchased the 6E Tyranid codex if I’d had some time to read through it first. That was, in fact, the Codex that got me into a read/review before I buy mindset with GW books. Furthermore, it’s been difficult to evaluate the books off other’s reviews - I’ve found they’re generally looking for different things than I am.

 Chongara wrote:

Breng77 wrote:

In a world of smart phones and tablets this is a bit of a stretch. Also do you have the rulebook? It has a fluff synopsis of every faction available, no need to read that in the codex before you buy it. It also has pictures of just about every army. So the only reason to want to do this is power gaming, wanting to read the rules before you buy. Most of these are available on multiple online sources and if you are concerned with powergaming you will find the time to look at those sources.

The rules are as much a part of the product as the models, or the fluff or anything else are so long as you're playing the game. It is as reasonable for someone to want to purchase a unit with a great stats, or that just fits their play-style as much one that they like the design of or that just has a great sculpt. They make the information for one kind of decision making readily will full color photos all over the box, they restrict the information for the other kind of decision making by locking it behind plastic wrap.

That 3rd parties and external apps can be pursued outside the immediate purchasing experience is immaterial. If the models came in plain white boxes with just the stats printed on them and no indication of their appearance or fluff, it would be equally as annoying. The fact one could look up preview articles or find fan galleries of the model would be immaterial to the fact it would be hard quickly see them at a glance in the store.

Is sealing off the rules & stats a game-breaker? No. Would making them as openly available pictures of the models and fluff blurbs improve the game? Certainly.

Other games and game companies do this and it works well. It's certainly only ever gotten them more of my business, not less.

IT has nothing to do with getting you more business and everything to do with keeping the product in good condition for purchase. They are restricting nothing if you, buy your codex prior to making any model purchases. You just don't want to need to buy the rules before you read them. There is plenty you don't know about the models based off their on box pictures. It gives you one or 2 examples of what you can make with the modeling kit, and gives you little to no idea about fluff. If you are reading the book it isn't at a glance, and is every bit as in depth as going onto the web to look at pictures of models would be. IN fact the cover of the codex provides just as much (if not more) information about what is inside the book as any model box does. What you want is to view the entire model out of box prior to making any purchases. What I've seen more of in stores that had them unwrapped was people not buying the book, but instead grabbing it off the shelf to reference during games, leading to beat up copies on the self.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Stormonu wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Its not a library. ether buy the book, ask to see a store beater copy or ask one of the locals.

why should Gw let you thumb through sell-able stock.

Because I can do so with every other RPG book in a bookstore?

No you cannot, you can do it with some of them, I used to work in a book store some were shrink wrapped, and people often removed said wrap to read the book prior to purchase. You are not entitled to look through a product in store, and given how I've seen people abuse the privilege in book stores those stores would be better off if everything were wrapped.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ServiceGames wrote:
Please understand that read all of your opinions. Unfortunately, none of those opinions has actually caused me to sway my opinion. It's not about power gaming. It's not about wanted anything for free. It's wanting the most up to date information when you have responsibilities that can keep you busy from the time you get home until your kid goes to bed... especially when they are young and need a lot of structure and interaction.

SG

And? I have a full time job, a 2 year old, and a wife who is 6 Months pregnant. That has nothing to do with the ability to read codices, I model at 5 AM before I go to work, and play once a month. I have way easier time getting on a PC or my phone, or reading a book at home, than I have time to go to the game shop and spend time there reading books. If what you say is true you should be buying the books and reading them after your kid has gone to bed, not at the game shop. If you have a smart phone your idea that you "don't have the time or ability to be on the internet" rings hollow. So it is absolutely about getting something you want for free prior to making a purchase.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Stormonu wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:


I suspect however that no-one has ever looked through a Codex and from that very look-through decided whether to buy. You either have the army/intend to buy the army and need the rules or you don’t. In this age, all the info you’d need ahead of time is available online.

You would be wrong in that assessment. 5E Necrons for me. Also, would not have purchased the 6E Tyranid codex if I’d had some time to read through it first. That was, in fact, the Codex that got me into a read/review before I buy mindset with GW books. Furthermore, it’s been difficult to evaluate the books off other’s reviews - I’ve found they’re generally looking for different things than I am.

There are literally channels on you tube that go through books page by page. Not very hard to evaluate.

Former Till Monkey’s perspective.

Ever had to bin stock because some manky kid covered the pages in whatever muck was on their hands when they chose to riffle through it?

I have.

Hence shrink wrap.

 Stormonu wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Its not a library. ether buy the book, ask to see a store beater copy or ask one of the locals.

why should Gw let you thumb through sell-able stock.

Because I can do so with every other RPG book in a bookstore?

How many of those end up being used during the game and put back on the self because some asshat forgot their book?

Zero. The store(s) I buy from don’t do gaming in store - Books A Million and one of the two local FLGS.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
It prevents the thing from being damaged - so I like that feature. The only reason to have the codex at this point is so you have have something that looks nice and smells good when you open it.

Pretty much. I'm addicted to that damn smell. I almost never open my codex. It's more of a book I casually peruse to stimulate thought once I memorize the rules. Points I do elsewhere.

It's just to breathe in fresh print smell and look at stratagems without having to type in google or find the blasted card.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I mean, Google exists. Plus you will know everything wrong with every codex just by popping on this forum.

Exactly - why even bother wrapping the book up when the whole thing has been spoiled on places like Dakka. It’s an annoyance that makes me feel like GW is treating me like a child - or worse, a theif.

And to my knowldege, the FLGS doesn’t have keep story copies (no GW store in over a few hundred miles).

To preserve the quality of the book. Thumbing through a book and handling it winds up with scratches, torn pages, etc. For what I pay I want a pristine book.

Yeah. If the rulesets are so poorly written that the book itself isn't worth buying as a rulebook, they'd better make sure I'm getting a brand-spankin-new book as a shelf decoration at the least.

 skchsan wrote:

Yeah. If the rulesets are so poorly written that the book itself isn't worth buying as a rulebook, they'd better make sure I'm getting a brand-spankin-new book as a shelf decoration at the least.

Nice leap, there.

"Why do GW shrinkwrap their model kits? I want to be able to open them and check what parts are in them before I buy them.

What's that? I can look at the sprues online, on the GW website, or other sites?
Not good enough. What if I don't have time on the internet to search for the fluff sprues I want, but I can write a forum post saying why it's bad GW use shrinkwrap on the same site I could ask about the fluff sprues I want.

Goddamn GW."

^^^^^ my thoughts on the above.
They're shrinkwrapped because they're a product. If you want it, ask someone else for one, or use the internet. Everything in the codexes can be found online. The basic rules for models can be found in the boxes (in my experience), the rules are free, and lore can be found online in far better-organised manners.

Why do you need to be able to read a codex before you buy it?

 JohnnyHell wrote:
I suspect however that no-one has ever looked through a Codex and from that very look-through decided whether to buy.

That's how I've gotten about 8 of my friends to play the game.
If they hadn't been able to look at the codecs (3rd/4th ed) they never would have gotten into the game. They each spent about an hour looking through the books before decieding on the faction they wanted to play. Keep in mind not all stores have the complete inventory that GW offers.

I bought my Chapter Approved because it was the store copy. Dog eared and torn it cost me 15 bucks.

 Stormonu wrote:
Zero. The store(s) I buy from don’t do gaming in store - Books A Million and one of the two local FLGS.

Well, suck it up.

Thumbing through books quickly render them unsellable. Grubby finger marks, dog eared pages. Torn pages.. Snot. Blood. Pubes. Pus from some Spotty Little Herbert.

All that and worse can be found in non-shrink wrapped nerd books. And knackered spines. Ever seen some pimply little oik fold the pages they’ve skimmed over right back so they’re up against the back cover? I have. Guess where that book goes! Right in the ‘known loss’ book, then the bin - because it’s spine is wrecked and I cannot sell it?

And that’s working in a GW, where the actual loss to the shop is probably pennies, couple of quid at most.

For your FLGS? That’s their money Shorty Greasy Spot Spot has just ruined.

And no. Open Copies do not stop such nonsense. Ever seen two nerds with the same Chapter or Army rock up for a game, where they’ve both forgotten (or never bought) their Army Book/Codex/Battletome? I know I know. You’d think they’d have figured out at least sharing the Open Copy. But you’d be wrong!? So wrong it’s not even funny. Christ, I’ve seen both ‘orrible little yoofs both not bother with the open copy, and pluck them straight off the shelf. And sometimes, more than just the one book. Planestrike x 2, Codex Space Marines x 2. That’s a surprising amount of the FLGS stock money going straight in the bin.

In fact, I’m willing to bet that rather than Big Bad GW, The Company With The Temerity To Seek A Profit making the shrink wrapped decision - it wa actually third party vendors, wanting to protect the stock they’ve shelled out for from nasty, dirty, zit riddled urchins, and thus the bin.

If you pick an army based solely on the criteria of how powerful it is (which is the only conclusion that I can draw where you need to look through the entire book and compare with other books before coming to a decision, since aesthetics would not be a consideration) then I'd say just wait a few weeks for it to drop and then gauge the online rage to how powerful it is before you buy it.

This one time I was at my local GW and I wanted to look at the codex for an army I was thinking about starting. To my dismay all the codexes were shrink wrapped!!!!!! So then i pulled out my smart phone and used the complementary internet to look at pictures of the pages in the codex thats all over google. The End.

Pro Tip: GW don't actually do anything in each new edition other than fiddle some numbers. If you've read an older codex, you've already read the new shrink-wrapped one.

Sass aside, I work part time in a book store at weekends when I'm not in the laboratory and I find these shrink wrapped books an oddity designed to push blind sales.

 Stormonu wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Its not a library. ether buy the book, ask to see a store beater copy or ask one of the locals.

why should Gw let you thumb through sell-able stock.

Because I can do so with every other RPG book in a bookstore?

If i had caught you doing that when i worked in a book store, i would have thrown you out. It's a shop, not a public library.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Its not a library. ether buy the book, ask to see a store beater copy or ask one of the locals.

why should Gw let you thumb through sell-able stock.

Because I can do so with every other RPG book in a bookstore?

If i had caught you doing that when i worked in a book store, i would have thrown you out. It's a shop, not a public library.

You sir. Enjoy your exalt!

I think it's fine that the books are shrink-wrapped, to prevent Cheeto-stained greasy fingers from dirtying them.

How did this topic get to a second page?

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Its not a library. ether buy the book, ask to see a store beater copy or ask one of the locals.

why should Gw let you thumb through sell-able stock.

Because I can do so with every other RPG book in a bookstore?

If i had caught you doing that when i worked in a book store, i would have thrown you out. It's a shop, not a public library.

What the hell are you talking about? It’s illegal to look through, say, a MM to see what creatures are in it and look at the pretty pictures?

You people are miserable.

Not miserable. In fact when i worked there we had a number of tables and chairs for people to sit and browse. But it got so abused by people sitting around for hours just reading, using reference books, damaging stock we had to take them away and keep an unoffical timer on people who disappeared into the back rows. If they hadn't moved in 15 minutes, we had to step in. Abuses means loss of privlege. And a lot of people seem to mistake a privilege for a right.

 Stormonu wrote:

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Its not a library. ether buy the book, ask to see a store beater copy or ask one of the locals.

why should Gw let you thumb through sell-able stock.

Because I can do so with every other RPG book in a bookstore?

If i had caught you doing that when i worked in a book store, i would have thrown you out. It's a shop, not a public library.

What the hell are you talking about? It’s illegal to look through, say, a MM to see what creatures are in it and look at the pretty pictures?

You people are miserable.

Its also entirely at the digression of the business owner

or do you think you have any right to do anything you want anywhere?

 Stormonu wrote:

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Its not a library. ether buy the book, ask to see a store beater copy or ask one of the locals.

why should Gw let you thumb through sell-able stock.

Because I can do so with every other RPG book in a bookstore?

If i had caught you doing that when i worked in a book store, i would have thrown you out. It's a shop, not a public library.

What the hell are you talking about? It’s illegal to look through, say, a MM to see what creatures are in it and look at the pretty pictures?

You people are miserable.

No, just practical.

You want to look through a book? Get over yourself and buy the damned thing. And if you’re too much of a cheapskate to buy new, have you heard of ebay?

Basically, Socialist as I am (and that’s very), the world owes you no more than a roof over your head, food in your belly, and a living wage.

When it comes to whining about luxury products not being exactly as you demand them? Yeah. You’re on you’re own.

"I don't have the codex, but I do have everything I need on my phone, I just took pictures of the relevant entries and points."- pretty much the next steps after someone taking off the shrink wrap in the store.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:


Basically, Socialist as I am (and that’s very), the world owes you no more than a roof over your head, food in your belly, and a living wage.

And no, it doesn't. He who does not work, does not eat. You can get three hots and a cot in a prison. But at least we 100% agree on the entitlement to recreational/luxury products.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:


And no, it doesn't. He who does not work, does not eat. You can get three hots and a cot in a prison. But at least we 100% agree on the entitlement to recreational/luxury products.

Geez. Someone better tell the AI companies to stop building robots then.

Plenty of companies shrinkwrap their books. And plenty of FLGS (like mine) will remove the shrinkwrap from at least one copy of each book, because GW does not require that books be sold with shrinkwrap, and the intent of the shrinkwrap isn't to prevent people from looking in the book before purchasing it

The shrinkwrap is there so that in the event of returned product it can be easily determined whether any damage to the book is the distributor's liability or not. Distributors will generally assume liability for damage to a book that is still shrinkwrapped, once it's removed, they won't.

Some people spend way to much time typing their opinions on forum, reading the responses, then replying ad nauseum when that time can be spent learning about the product they wish to buy. It's even funnier claiming not having enough time, due to family life, to look up on the Internet information that is easily found yet have enough time to leave the home and family, travel to the store, spend time perusing books for free then travel back home. If you are reading this post you should be researching products since you clearly have time right now at this moment.

But this thread isn't about improving oneself. It about the man keeping a brother down.

feth me people will complain about anything...

They should do what my GW used to do. Don't have shrink wrapped books but have books that are damaged and have people just read them for rules in store and not buy them.

I'd rather my Codex was pristine. The GW website description of each Codex gives a good overview of its contents and there are plenty of in-depth reviews online if you need more detail.

I agree with the OP. It's so petty to shrinkwrap them. I've never bought a book without looking inside.

I really despair at the people in this thread saying that the OP should not have made this thread. You are entitled to hold a different opinion (i.e. it's good that the books are shrinkwrapped), but stop saying that the OP shouldn't have an opinion in the first place. Discussing things is literally what a forum is for! The forum has been a bit light on new and interesting threads lately, so let's not stifle what discussion we do have, ey?

Sadly true but people treating bookstores as libraries is a major part of why it is a dying industry. Go in read through part of a book. Like it go order it on amazon.

 Sim-Life wrote:
How did this topic get to a second page?

I straight-up thought this was a joke thread/title before I started reading.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:


Well, suck it up.

Thumbing through books quickly render them unsellable. Grubby finger marks, dog eared pages. Torn pages.. Snot. Blood. Pubes. Pus from some Spotty Little Herbert.

What do they do with the display books in your ... actually I don't want to know...

My local GW doesn't have shrinkwrapped books. They have store copies of most of them, but I'm guilty of picking up a stock copy and looking at the pictures on occasion. If yours does, it must be a local decision; perhaps because someone keeps distressing the stock?

They shrinkwrap them because there will be some clumsy sod who thumbs through a copy and leaves pages in a mess. It's the same as them shrinkwrapping the models. They don't want to have to fork out more monies to replace kits that someone's broken after forcing it back into the box.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Geez. Someone better tell the AI companies to stop building robots then.

"Muh Robutts" hasn't been a relevant hope since they started talking about it in the 1960's. Get a job.

Anyway, back on topic:

OP, you're going to have a difficult time convincing me that you're actually flipping through various books to make your decision on which Codex you want.

It would require you to know absolutely no one with that book, or a working knowledge of how that army plays, etc. It would also mean you've never been able to use Google, to find out what an army offers. It would ALSO mean that you're that one guy that has just come to the hobby and has no idea what you're going to play, and you need to read a book and refuse any and all aid from others to make your choice.

I'm more convinced you're just like the kids I have to throw out every now and then before a tournament- in there, flipping through the book, snapping pictures on your phone so you can get the units you want without paying money for it like everyone else (or being as creative as those of us who don't buy Imperial Armour books).

My local GW hasn't had open copies of codex's since 7th ed came out. The one time the manager unwrapped a codex so a customer could read it before he bought it, the customer read through the codex then bought it elsewhere.

 Rolsheen wrote:
My local GW hasn't had open copies of codex's since 7th ed came out. The one time the manager unwrapped a codex so a customer could read it before he bought it, the customer read through the codex then bought it elsewhere.

That's your store manager then not GW's fault.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Geez. Someone better tell the AI companies to stop building robots then.

"Muh Robutts" hasn't been a relevant hope since they started talking about it in the 1960's. Get a job.

You're very out of the loop, huh?

Anyway...someone kill this thread...

Well i do apologize to dakkadakka and their staff for my facetiousness. Forums such as this live and die by how many come on and take part in discussion. I don't apologize to those I directed it towards. Those who claimed they don't have time because of their family to come online and use Google or even come on here and ask the community about the product they are considering for purchase YET they have the time to leave all that to head to the store and read books for free as well as have time to come on here, make a thread like this, and keep tabs on it to continue responding. Some serious time management failures are occurring. Scapegoating the family for this gross mismanagement is also ridiculously dishonest and rather concerning, my sympathies to the family.

text removed.

Reds8n

If you have nothing on topic or useful to post then don't post.

Personally, I feel a better alternative to shrinkwrapping them would be to have books behind the counter of the store, or in some form of cabinet. Maybe then have a store copy for if anyone wants to take a look at any stats?
I have no issue with not being able to read the codex, that's fine - it's just that the plastic seems unnecessary when they could just be out of reach

If you tried keeping the books behind the counter of my store then the manager would need to live in a single spot.

 Stormonu wrote:
It’s a stupid, pendatic middle finger thrust at their customer base.

Welcome to Holy Terra in M3, where every single penny must be sucked out of every consumer at relativistic speed and with gravitational force lest the universe collapse. No free previews for you.

Also it's spelled "pedantic".

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Surely it isn't the fluff tipping you over into a purchase.

Indeed. Heaven forfend that someone should take an interest in the noncompetetive plastic soldiers game because they enjoy aspects of the fictional universe.

most independent stores and all GWs should have an open promotional copy for customers to look through. However they don't let you open the books for the same reason they don't let you open the kits, they aren't going to be able to sell any stock that has been damaged or has parts missing. I'd much rather have the shrink wrap and get a pristine, untouched book (although it would be nice if they swapped it for biodegradable plastic) than run the very real possibility that I'm buying a book that's been torn, smudged or is covered in oily fingerprints. Maybe you should consider acting less entitled.

 whispered_war wrote:
Personally, I feel a better alternative to shrinkwrapping them would be to have books behind the counter of the store, or in some form of cabinet. Maybe then have a store copy for if anyone wants to take a look at any stats?
I have no issue with not being able to read the codex, that's fine - it's just that the plastic seems unnecessary when they could just be out of reach

Ever been to a GW shop? Most of them do have store copies, specifically for people to read before they buy.

They're not for you to be able to "look at any stats" outside of a cursory flipthrough or play a demo game with though.

It's quite amazing how this thread has divided the community.

Did Horus turn on the Emperor because the vengeful Spirit ran out of shrinkwrap?

If you think this is bad, throw up a topic asking if you think people should be mandated to rebase their models everytime GW switches base size.

After getting stiffed on the Codex Grey Knights copy paste edition I acquire them online and if there not complete bollocks I buy them after.

I don't mind the books being wrapped up, but I think GW Shops should have a copy available to thumb through. It doesn't need to be available as a reference for games, but we shouldn't have to rely solely on pirated documents/rumors to make an educated purchase... Especially when you consider the total cost of the hobby. And I am not someone who feels entitled to anything, this just seems like a smart business decision for the hobby.

While traveling (out of country) I went to a GW Shop that had opened Codexes available. I had already planned on starting up another Army at the time and I thought it was nice, as I had been away from the game for a few months at the time. Spent $90ish on some models and went on my way. I've been to five or so shops and this was the only one that operated like that.

I think 40k is already hard enough to get into as is (for someone just walking into a store) and anything that makes it more accessible is a win. I have opened a store copy a few times prior to buying models along with the book, but that was after asking. I would have bought the book either way since I already did some research, however I am sure not every shopper thinks that way.

I'm gonna try and make it a point to find books that aren't shrink-wrapped, maybe snap some pictures of what I see.

Because yesterday morning, the owner of the FLGS I part-time at on weekends... called me to let me know one of our regulars owed us money because he decided he wanted to open up a Codex and take it with him to 'deploy the Tau' in the bathroom. And would have gotten away with it, had he not left it in there. On the floor.

I mean, I hate buying Graphic Novels at the bookstore because none of them are wrapped, and I've opened them up later to find pubes and boogers and all kinds of stuff.

I’ve never been in a GW or FLGS where even if the store didn’t have books for looking through, someone playing there has a copy they’d let you look at.

Is this a serious complaint? My god people on DakkaDakka will find fething anything to complain about.

I'm willing to bet that it's more to do with damaged stock than any real level of stingyness. While I would stay complaining about it would be valid like ten years ago but there is enough resources and forums now for people to get any info on an army they need.

Damn, in comparison to some, I abuse the hell out of these books. I gave up on keeping anything Mint through regular travel, and low resale value regardless of condition. But I'm also the kind of guy who folds pages in a novel to bookmark them.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
But I'm also the kind of guy who folds pages in a novel to bookmark them.

Heresy!

 Kanluwen wrote:

Ever been to a GW shop? Most of them do have store copies, specifically for people to read before they buy.

No, never set foot in a store, whole concept is foreign to me *sarcasm* no GW store I've ever been to has had any store copies that I've ever seen, even Warhammer World, which is my nearest one. I could have just never seen them though, so I may be wrong

 whispered_war wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Ever been to a GW shop? Most of them do have store copies, specifically for people to read before they buy.

No, never set foot in a store, whole concept is foreign to me *sarcasm* no GW store I've ever been to has had any store copies that I've ever seen, even Warhammer World, which is my nearest one. I could have just never seen them though, so I may be wrong

My store used to have a store copy of every book for people to use to check rules or to have a quick look. Sadly they stopped doing it because lots of people "forgot they were the store copy and took them home". Funny considering it clearly said 'Games Workshop store copy' on the front...

I love the feel and smell of a freshly unwrapped codex.

craftworld_uk wrote:
I love the feel and smell of a freshly unwrapped codex.

Honestly, that smell of any board game when you first open it. Mmmm...

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Geez. Someone better tell the AI companies to stop building robots then.

"Muh Robutts" hasn't been a relevant hope since they started talking about it in the 1960's. Get a job.

Anyway...someone kill this thread...

Okay.
How will we know if the new Sisters codex will have artwork displaying boob plate armour if its shrink wrapped? I don't want to buy a book and contribute money towards the production of such sexist materials as boob plate and combat heels.

 Sim-Life wrote:
Okay.
How will we know if the new Sisters codex will have artwork displaying boob plate armour if its shrink wrapped? I don't want to buy a book and contribute money towards the production of such sexist materials as boob plate and combat heels.

Considering that I've had quite a bit of experience with the people who complain about it, your answer is "They are going to complain and cry no matter what, just make them bare-breasted and enjoy the shrieking".

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

craftworld_uk wrote:
I love the feel and smell of a freshly unwrapped codex.

Honestly, that smell of any board game when you first open it. Mmmm...

I love the sound of the spine creaking when you open a rulebook for the first time.

Adeptus Doritos wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:
Okay.
How will we know if the new Sisters codex will have artwork displaying boob plate armour if its shrink wrapped? I don't want to buy a book and contribute money towards the production of such sexist materials as boob plate and combat heels.

Considering that I've had quite a bit of experience with the people who complain about it, your answer is "They are going to complain and cry no matter what, just make them bare-breasted and enjoy the shrieking".

Careful. You'll cut yourself on that edge.

 EnTyme wrote:

Careful. You'll cut yourself on that edge.

I'm about as edgy as a bowling ball, and far less fun to stick your fingers into. But I am usually in a gutter, so there's that.

And if you think those individuals aren't going to cry and piss and moan... well, keep in mind that Dakkadakka is about 50% crying and pissing and moaning from manchildren as it is, it's practically part of the culture.

 EnTyme wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

craftworld_uk wrote:
I love the feel and smell of a freshly unwrapped codex.

Honestly, that smell of any board game when you first open it. Mmmm...

I love the sound of the spine creaking when you open a rulebook for the first time.

Ohhhhh yes!

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:

Careful. You'll cut yourself on that edge.

I'm about as edgy as a bowling ball, and far less fun to stick your fingers into. But I am usually in a gutter, so there's that.

And if you think those individuals aren't going to cry and piss and moan... well, keep in mind that Dakkadakka is about 50% crying and pissing and moaning from manchildren as it is, it's practically part of the culture.

Let's not forget the people who'll complain if they don't have boob plate.

And the people that are going to complain that they don't match the old metals.

And the people that are going to complain that they didn't get the rules & new units that only exist in their head.

There is going to be colossal quantities of salt.

 Scott-S6 wrote:
There is going to be colossal quantities of salt.

Let's face it, when people playing 40k stop whining- it'll be because of an extinction-level event.

At least with shrink wrapping if they put a sticker on the book its on the wrapper not the book!

I mean who hasn't been to a bookshop and bought a book with a nice big sticky label on the front cover that not only is hard to get off, but often leaves a gummy sticky residue that is a nightmare to clean off (and sometimes never fully comes off). Now that is a far greater crime (it actually makes me want to buy from Amazon more because they've no need ot put silly stickers on the books).

 Overread wrote:
At least with shrink wrapping if they put a sticker on the book its on the wrapper not the book!

I mean who hasn't been to a bookshop and bought a book with a nice big sticky label on the front cover that not only is hard to get off, but often leaves a gummy sticky residue that is a nightmare to clean off (and sometimes never fully comes off). Now that is a far greater crime (it actually makes me want to buy from Amazon more because they've no need ot put silly stickers on the books).

Now THIS is a good point - hadn't even thought of that, but you're so right. The sticky labels that don't peel off properly would ruin a codex, and for how much they cost, that's the last thing you'd want

You may be in luck if you are in the UK. There seems to be a war on plastic packaging at the moment. Most likely to detract from the governments sheer incompetence in general - but lets not get political.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 whispered_war wrote:

 Overread wrote:
At least with shrink wrapping if they put a sticker on the book its on the wrapper not the book!

I mean who hasn't been to a bookshop and bought a book with a nice big sticky label on the front cover that not only is hard to get off, but often leaves a gummy sticky residue that is a nightmare to clean off (and sometimes never fully comes off). Now that is a far greater crime (it actually makes me want to buy from Amazon more because they've no need ot put silly stickers on the books).

Now THIS is a good point - hadn't even thought of that, but you're so right. The sticky labels that don't peel off properly would ruin a codex, and for how much they cost, that's the last thing you'd want

I feel your pain. However I have a technique which works very well.

Tease all around the sticker with your fingernail and very very slowly begin to peal away the sticker. Some adhesive residue will remain so now you take the sticker, adhesive side facing the offending gum, and dab up up and down over the offending bits. Works a treat and cleans it all off!

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:
Okay.
How will we know if the new Sisters codex will have artwork displaying boob plate armour if its shrink wrapped? I don't want to buy a book and contribute money towards the production of such sexist materials as boob plate and combat heels.

Considering that I've had quite a bit of experience with the people who complain about it, your answer is "They are going to complain and cry no matter what, just make them bare-breasted and enjoy the shrieking".

Damn, Sim, that is some impressive turnaround. Let me try.

I'm going to organize a protest against the shrinkwrapping! The Patriarchy is using it as a way to control the means of hobby enjoyment, freedom of access to information is the most important step we can take towards a socio-feminist revolution.

I believe it's fair to say this thread has run its course.

 Overread wrote:
At least with shrink wrapping if they put a sticker on the book its on the wrapper not the book!

I mean who hasn't been to a bookshop and bought a book with a nice big sticky label on the front cover that not only is hard to get off, but often leaves a gummy sticky residue that is a nightmare to clean off (and sometimes never fully comes off). Now that is a far greater crime (it actually makes me want to buy from Amazon more because they've no need ot put silly stickers on the books).

Oh god, you're bringing back memories of when Game slapped security tag stickers over the right side of the book (to prevent the customer reading it in store). They were a fething nightmare to get off and always damaged the product.

 Overread wrote:
At least with shrink wrapping if they put a sticker on the book its on the wrapper not the book!

I mean who hasn't been to a bookshop and bought a book with a nice big sticky label on the front cover that not only is hard to get off, but often leaves a gummy sticky residue that is a nightmare to clean off (and sometimes never fully comes off). Now that is a far greater crime (it actually makes me want to buy from Amazon more because they've no need ot put silly stickers on the books).

And sometimes those bloody stickers are also inconveniently places so they actually cover part of the text you want to read so even leaving it there is not feasible...

My reasoning harkens back to the till monkey answers above.

Shrink wrapped means little Timmy didn’t feth it up with snot and candy, or big Timmy didn’t take it to the bathroom for a Dakka.

 EnTyme wrote:
I believe it's fair to say this thread has run its course.

Is it time to wrap up this discussion?