Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

It’s a stupid, pendatic middle finger thrust at their customer base. No other game company (that I am aware of) shrinkwraps their book’s content, making it impossible for folks to peruse it before deciding to buy. It’s one reason I haven’t bought any of the 8E codexs, but did buy the indexes -as the indexes weren’t shrinkwrapped and I could take a peak inside to know what I’m getting.

My local GW has an open copy of every codex.

Wow, that's quite the first world problem right there. But in seriousness, if it's in a GW, why not just ask to look at the stores copy? Or if it's a LGS, why not ask if they have an open copy or if not, if you can just remove the shrink-wrap?

 Stormonu wrote:
It’s a stupid, pendatic middle finger thrust at their customer base. No other game company (that I am aware of) shrinkwraps their book’s content, making it impossible for folks to peruse it before deciding to buy. It’s one reason I haven’t bought any of the 8E codexs, but did buy the indexes -as the indexes weren’t shrinkwrapped and I could take a peak inside to know what I’m getting.

What exactly do you need to peruse that isn't visible in their kits? Are you worried that the army is going to be under powered? Surely it isn't the fluff tipping you over into a purchase.

I mean, Google exists. Plus you will know everything wrong with every codex just by popping on this forum.

It's not as if it is all that difficult to see what is in their books, I mean GW themselves practically spoils HALF of what is in each codex the week before release. As others have said you can also search up Google and see even more...

It is a pain, sure.
But, would you want to buy a book the previous customers had mauled and put back? The price they charge, they have to protect their stock.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I mean, Google exists. Plus you will know everything wrong with every codex just by popping on this forum.

Exactly - why even bother wrapping the book up when the whole thing has been spoiled on places like Dakka. It’s an annoyance that makes me feel like GW is treating me like a child - or worse, a theif.

And to my knowldege, the FLGS doesn’t have keep story copies (no GW store in over a few hundred miles).

 Stormonu wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I mean, Google exists. Plus you will know everything wrong with every codex just by popping on this forum.

Exactly - why even bother wrapping the book up when the whole thing has been spoiled on places like Dakka. It’s an annoyance that makes me feel like GW is treating me like a child - or worse, a theif.

And to my knowldege, the FLGS doesn’t have keep story copies (no GW store in over a few hundred miles).

To preserve the quality of the book. Thumbing through a book and handling it winds up with scratches, torn pages, etc. For what I pay I want a pristine book.

It prevents the thing from being damaged - so I like that feature. The only reason to have the codex at this point is so you have have something that looks nice and smells good when you open it.

 Xenomancers wrote:
It prevents the thing from being damaged - so I like that feature. The only reason to have the codex at this point is so you have have something that looks nice and smells good when you open it.

Pretty much. I'm addicted to that damn smell. I almost never open my codex. It's more of a book I casually peruse to stimulate thought once I memorize the rules. Points I do elsewhere.

Its not a library. ether buy the book, ask to see a store beater copy or ask one of the locals.

why should Gw let you thumb through sell-able stock.

To me, not providing each of their stores with store copies of the codices and indices is pretty much unacceptable. Let's say that a newer player (who either doesn't know much about Warhammer or doesn't know much about/have much time to spend on Warhammer forums) has decided he/she doesn't want to play either army in the starter set they bought. So, this person goes into a store (FLGS or GW) and wants to start a new army. How are they going to know what army they want to play without some kind of look into the rules/fluff for any given army (be it a quick perusal of just the datasheets themselves to an in-depth read of a couple of chapters of fluff)?

It really doesn't make any sense.

SG

 ServiceGames wrote:
To me, not providing each of their stores with store copies of the codices and indices is pretty much unacceptable. Let's say that a newer player (who either doesn't know much about Warhammer or doesn't know much about/have much time to spend on Warhammer forums) has decided he/she doesn't want to play either army in the starter set they bought. So, this person goes into a store (FLGS or GW) and wants to start a new army. How are they going to know what army they want to play without some kind of look into the rules/fluff for any given army (be it a quick perusal of just the datasheets themselves to an in-depth read of a couple of chapters of fluff)?

It really doesn't make any sense.

SG

It wouldnt make much sense maybe 15-20 years ago when the only way you hear about the game is word of mouth or stumbling into a store blind. but nowadays if some one wants to start a fresh army they look on line and see people talking about it so should have a general idea of what they should be getting.

 ServiceGames wrote:
To me, not providing each of their stores with store copies of the codices and indices is pretty much unacceptable. Let's say that a newer player (who either doesn't know much about Warhammer or doesn't know much about/have much time to spend on Warhammer forums) has decided he/she doesn't want to play either army in the starter set they bought. So, this person goes into a store (FLGS or GW) and wants to start a new army. How are they going to know what army they want to play without some kind of look into the rules/fluff for any given army (be it a quick perusal of just the datasheets themselves to an in-depth read of a couple of chapters of fluff)?

It really doesn't make any sense.

SG

https://warhammer40000.com/
https://warhammer40000.com/setting/explore-the-factions/

 Desubot wrote:
It wouldnt make much sense maybe 15-20 years ago when the only way you hear about the game is word of mouth or stumbling into a store blind. but nowadays if some one wants to start a fresh army they look on line and see people talking about it so should have a general idea of what they should be getting.

I would agree for the vast majority of people, but there will be exceptions to the rule. There will be those people that don't have access to the internet at work. And, when they do get a break and can possibly look around with their phone, it's not long enough to really get to know, in-depth, what they want to know about a new army.

Now, let's add a few other very realistic restrictions in the mix. Let's say they are married with a child or two children. So, in essence, they are 30min per day modelers and painters (after the kid has gone to bed but before they have to get things ready for the next day at work and get to bed themselves). But, let's also say that their wife/husband enjoys either hanging out with friends or just having some alone time with the kid(s) every other weekend or so. That gives this person time to go play a few games on those weekends. His/her models may not all be painted, but they will probably look better than last time they played.

I only bring this up because this is about to be me. Now, thankfully, I can access the internet from work, so I don't have to worry about not being able to spend time on the web/message boards. But, I will soon be marrying a wonderful, amazing woman who has a son that I love to death. My time to paint/model will be cut down to probably 30 mins per day at max (maybe more on the weekends). And, game time will be cut significantly as well.

I have a feeling there are several people out there exactly like what I described above who would love to start a new army but don't know where to start as time is a big limitation. Either they play or spend an entire weekend researching a new army.

SG


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
https://warhammer40000.com/
https://warhammer40000.com/setting/explore-the-factions/

See above.

SG

 ServiceGames wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
It wouldnt make much sense maybe 15-20 years ago when the only way you hear about the game is word of mouth or stumbling into a store blind. but nowadays if some one wants to start a fresh army they look on line and see people talking about it so should have a general idea of what they should be getting.

I would agree for the vast majority of people, but there will be exceptions to the rule. There will be those people that don't have access to the internet at work. And, when they do get a break and can possibly look around with their phone, it's not long enough to really get to know, in-depth, what they want to know about a new army.

Now, let's add a few other very realistic restrictions in the mix. Let's say they are married with a child or two children. So, in essence, they are 30min per day modelers and painters (after the kid has gone to bed but before they have to get things ready for the next day at work and get to bed themselves). But, let's also say that their wife/husband enjoys either hanging out with friends or just having some alone time with the kid(s) every other weekend or so. That gives this person time to go play a few games on those weekends. His/her models may not all be painted, but they will probably look better than last time they played.

I only bring this up because this is about to be me. Now, thankfully, I can access the internet from work, so I don't have to worry about not being able to spend time on the web/message boards. But, I will soon be marrying a wonderful, amazing woman who has a son that I love to death. My time to paint/model will be cut down to probably 30 mins per day at max (maybe more on the weekends). And, game time will be cut significantly as well.

I have a feeling there are several people out there exactly like what I described above who would love to start a new army but don't know where to start as time is a big limitation. Either they play or spend an entire weekend researching a new army.

SG

I dunno, if one has time to actually travel and visit the store, then it seems they have enough time to use the internet at a public place like a Starbucks or library to do a little research. Plus, worst case scenario, they could just ask the GW/FLGS employee for suggestions. And given the cost and time investment most armies are, you should put time and thought before going balls deep into an army.

 ServiceGames wrote:
I would agree for the vast majority of people, but there will be exceptions to the rule. There will be those people that don't have access to the internet at work. And, when they do get a break and can possibly look around with their phone, it's not long enough to really get to know, in-depth, what they want to know about a new army.

Now, let's add a few other very realistic restrictions in the mix. Let's say they are married with a child or two children. So, in essence, they are 30min per day modelers and painters (after the kid has gone to bed but before they have to get things ready for the next day at work and get to bed themselves). But, let's also say that the wife/husband enjoys either hanging out with friends or just having some alone time with the kid(s) every other weekend or so. That gives this person time to go play a few games on those weekends. His/her models may not all be painted, but they will probably look better than last time they played.

I only bring this up because this is about to be me. Now, thankfully, I can access the internet from work, so I don't have to worry about not being able to spend time on the web/message boards. But, I will soon be marrying a wonderful, amazing woman who has a son that I love to death. My time to paint/model will be cut down to probably 30 mins per day at max (maybe more on the weekends). And, game time will be cut significantly as well.

I have a feeling there are several people out there exactly like what I described above who would love to start a new army but don't know where to start as time is a big limitation. Either they play or spend an entire weekend researching a new army.

SG

You're just conjuring ridiculous scenarios to support an absurd stance.

You think they can just sit down with a book and "get to know a faction" at the store? Why do they need to do that during a break at work? How exactly does kids prevent that more than sitting at a shop reading a book? I have three of them by the way.

I mean heaven forbid if they suddenly get a bout of diarrhea or a meteor strike knocks out the power when they try to read something on the internet!

 ServiceGames wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
It wouldnt make much sense maybe 15-20 years ago when the only way you hear about the game is word of mouth or stumbling into a store blind. but nowadays if some one wants to start a fresh army they look on line and see people talking about it so should have a general idea of what they should be getting.

I would agree for the vast majority of people, but there will be exceptions to the rule. There will be those people that don't have access to the internet at work. And, when they do get a break and can possibly look around with their phone, it's not long enough to really get to know, in-depth, what they want to know about a new army.

Now, let's add a few other very realistic restrictions in the mix. Let's say they are married with a child or two children. So, in essence, they are 30min per day modelers and painters (after the kid has gone to bed but before they have to get things ready for the next day at work and get to bed themselves). But, let's also say that their wife/husband enjoys either hanging out with friends or just having some alone time with the kid(s) every other weekend or so. That gives this person time to go play a few games on those weekends. His/her models may not all be painted, but they will probably look better than last time they played.

I only bring this up because this is about to be me. Now, thankfully, I can access the internet from work, so I don't have to worry about not being able to spend time on the web/message boards. But, I will soon be marrying a wonderful, amazing woman who has a son that I love to death. My time to paint/model will be cut down to probably 30 mins per day at max (maybe more on the weekends). And, game time will be cut significantly as well.

I have a feeling there are several people out there exactly like what I described above who would love to start a new army but don't know where to start as time is a big limitation. Either they play or spend an entire weekend researching a new army.

SG


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
https://warhammer40000.com/
https://warhammer40000.com/setting/explore-the-factions/

See above.

SG

In a world of smart phones and tablets this is a bit of a stretch. Also do you have the rulebook? It has a fluff synopsis of every faction available, no need to read that in the codex before you buy it. It also has pictures of just about every army. So the only reason to want to do this is power gaming, wanting to read the rules before you buy. Most of these are available on multiple online sources and if you are concerned with powergaming you will find the time to look at those sources.

Breng77 wrote:

In a world of smart phones and tablets this is a bit of a stretch. Also do you have the rulebook? It has a fluff synopsis of every faction available, no need to read that in the codex before you buy it. It also has pictures of just about every army. So the only reason to want to do this is power gaming, wanting to read the rules before you buy. Most of these are available on multiple online sources and if you are concerned with powergaming you will find the time to look at those sources.

The rules are as much a part of the product as the models, or the fluff or anything else are so long as you're playing the game. It is as reasonable for someone to want to purchase a unit with a great stats, or that just fits their play-style as much one that they like the design of or that just has a great sculpt. They make the information for one kind of decision making readily will full color photos all over the box, they restrict the information for the other kind of decision making by locking it behind plastic wrap.

That 3rd parties and external apps can be pursued outside the immediate purchasing experience is immaterial. If the models came in plain white boxes with just the stats printed on them and no indication of their appearance or fluff, it would be equally as annoying. The fact one could look up preview articles or find fan galleries of the model would be immaterial to the fact it would be hard quickly see them at a glance in the store.

Is sealing off the rules & stats a game-breaker? No. Would making them as openly available pictures of the models and fluff blurbs improve the game? Certainly.

Other games and game companies do this and it works well. It's certainly only ever gotten them more of my business, not less.

 Desubot wrote:
Its not a library. ether buy the book, ask to see a store beater copy or ask one of the locals.

why should Gw let you thumb through sell-able stock.

Because I can do so with every other RPG book in a bookstore?

If your retailer won’t open a copy for you to look through if you seriously intend to buy it and your decision hinges on reading it then they aren’t worth buying from.

I suspect however that no-one has ever looked through a Codex and from that very look-through decided whether to buy. You either have the army/intend to buy the army and need the rules or you don’t. In this age, all the info you’d need ahead of time is available online.

Shrinkwrapping=bad is about the strangest anti-GW complaint I’ve ever heard!

Please understand that read all of your opinions. Unfortunately, none of those opinions has actually caused me to sway my opinion. It's not about power gaming. It's not about wanted anything for free. It's wanting the most up to date information when you have responsibilities that can keep you busy from the time you get home until your kid goes to bed... especially when they are young and need a lot of structure and interaction.

SG


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Shrinkwrapping=bad is about the strangest anti-GW complaint I’ve ever heard!

Really? I promise you'll hear a lot stranger complaints in your lifetime. This one is very, very, very, very low on the list of strange even if I didn't agree.

SG

 JohnnyHell wrote:


I suspect however that no-one has ever looked through a Codex and from that very look-through decided whether to buy. You either have the army/intend to buy the army and need the rules or you don’t. In this age, all the info you’d need ahead of time is available online.

You would be wrong in that assessment. 5E Necrons for me. Also, would not have purchased the 6E Tyranid codex if I’d had some time to read through it first. That was, in fact, the Codex that got me into a read/review before I buy mindset with GW books. Furthermore, it’s been difficult to evaluate the books off other’s reviews - I’ve found they’re generally looking for different things than I am.

 Chongara wrote:

Breng77 wrote:

In a world of smart phones and tablets this is a bit of a stretch. Also do you have the rulebook? It has a fluff synopsis of every faction available, no need to read that in the codex before you buy it. It also has pictures of just about every army. So the only reason to want to do this is power gaming, wanting to read the rules before you buy. Most of these are available on multiple online sources and if you are concerned with powergaming you will find the time to look at those sources.

The rules are as much a part of the product as the models, or the fluff or anything else are so long as you're playing the game. It is as reasonable for someone to want to purchase a unit with a great stats, or that just fits their play-style as much one that they like the design of or that just has a great sculpt. They make the information for one kind of decision making readily will full color photos all over the box, they restrict the information for the other kind of decision making by locking it behind plastic wrap.

That 3rd parties and external apps can be pursued outside the immediate purchasing experience is immaterial. If the models came in plain white boxes with just the stats printed on them and no indication of their appearance or fluff, it would be equally as annoying. The fact one could look up preview articles or find fan galleries of the model would be immaterial to the fact it would be hard quickly see them at a glance in the store.

Is sealing off the rules & stats a game-breaker? No. Would making them as openly available pictures of the models and fluff blurbs improve the game? Certainly.

Other games and game companies do this and it works well. It's certainly only ever gotten them more of my business, not less.

IT has nothing to do with getting you more business and everything to do with keeping the product in good condition for purchase. They are restricting nothing if you, buy your codex prior to making any model purchases. You just don't want to need to buy the rules before you read them. There is plenty you don't know about the models based off their on box pictures. It gives you one or 2 examples of what you can make with the modeling kit, and gives you little to no idea about fluff. If you are reading the book it isn't at a glance, and is every bit as in depth as going onto the web to look at pictures of models would be. IN fact the cover of the codex provides just as much (if not more) information about what is inside the book as any model box does. What you want is to view the entire model out of box prior to making any purchases. What I've seen more of in stores that had them unwrapped was people not buying the book, but instead grabbing it off the shelf to reference during games, leading to beat up copies on the self.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Stormonu wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Its not a library. ether buy the book, ask to see a store beater copy or ask one of the locals.

why should Gw let you thumb through sell-able stock.

Because I can do so with every other RPG book in a bookstore?

No you cannot, you can do it with some of them, I used to work in a book store some were shrink wrapped, and people often removed said wrap to read the book prior to purchase. You are not entitled to look through a product in store, and given how I've seen people abuse the privilege in book stores those stores would be better off if everything were wrapped.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ServiceGames wrote:
Please understand that read all of your opinions. Unfortunately, none of those opinions has actually caused me to sway my opinion. It's not about power gaming. It's not about wanted anything for free. It's wanting the most up to date information when you have responsibilities that can keep you busy from the time you get home until your kid goes to bed... especially when they are young and need a lot of structure and interaction.

SG

And? I have a full time job, a 2 year old, and a wife who is 6 Months pregnant. That has nothing to do with the ability to read codices, I model at 5 AM before I go to work, and play once a month. I have way easier time getting on a PC or my phone, or reading a book at home, than I have time to go to the game shop and spend time there reading books. If what you say is true you should be buying the books and reading them after your kid has gone to bed, not at the game shop. If you have a smart phone your idea that you "don't have the time or ability to be on the internet" rings hollow. So it is absolutely about getting something you want for free prior to making a purchase.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Stormonu wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:


I suspect however that no-one has ever looked through a Codex and from that very look-through decided whether to buy. You either have the army/intend to buy the army and need the rules or you don’t. In this age, all the info you’d need ahead of time is available online.

You would be wrong in that assessment. 5E Necrons for me. Also, would not have purchased the 6E Tyranid codex if I’d had some time to read through it first. That was, in fact, the Codex that got me into a read/review before I buy mindset with GW books. Furthermore, it’s been difficult to evaluate the books off other’s reviews - I’ve found they’re generally looking for different things than I am.

There are literally channels on you tube that go through books page by page. Not very hard to evaluate.

Former Till Monkey’s perspective.

Ever had to bin stock because some manky kid covered the pages in whatever muck was on their hands when they chose to riffle through it?

I have.

Hence shrink wrap.

 Stormonu wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Its not a library. ether buy the book, ask to see a store beater copy or ask one of the locals.

why should Gw let you thumb through sell-able stock.

Because I can do so with every other RPG book in a bookstore?

How many of those end up being used during the game and put back on the self because some asshat forgot their book?

Zero. The store(s) I buy from don’t do gaming in store - Books A Million and one of the two local FLGS.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
It prevents the thing from being damaged - so I like that feature. The only reason to have the codex at this point is so you have have something that looks nice and smells good when you open it.

Pretty much. I'm addicted to that damn smell. I almost never open my codex. It's more of a book I casually peruse to stimulate thought once I memorize the rules. Points I do elsewhere.

It's just to breathe in fresh print smell and look at stratagems without having to type in google or find the blasted card.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I mean, Google exists. Plus you will know everything wrong with every codex just by popping on this forum.

Exactly - why even bother wrapping the book up when the whole thing has been spoiled on places like Dakka. It’s an annoyance that makes me feel like GW is treating me like a child - or worse, a theif.

And to my knowldege, the FLGS doesn’t have keep story copies (no GW store in over a few hundred miles).

To preserve the quality of the book. Thumbing through a book and handling it winds up with scratches, torn pages, etc. For what I pay I want a pristine book.

Yeah. If the rulesets are so poorly written that the book itself isn't worth buying as a rulebook, they'd better make sure I'm getting a brand-spankin-new book as a shelf decoration at the least.