Has anyone discovered any interesting tactics or combinations in Adeptus Titanicus yet? I thought I'd start a thread as I'm excited about the game, yet still haven't had a chance to have a real game yet - so next best thing to doing something is talking about it.

I've done some me vs me mini-games and so far - close combat seems to be very powerful, but not a guaranteed quick kill. And i feel that the power it has in small games will be mitigated a lot in larger games since attempting to flank for CC could open melee-oriented titans up to back attacks.

I've also found that a fist + laser reaver is quite a good deterrent against knight charges. Str8 + shieldbane deals reliable damage to knights even though it can't crit
and the fist is likely to kill at least 1 knight a turn or more if you can get a charge off. Volcano cannons are certain to deal more damage to knights, but the blast can clip your own titans if the knights get into CC.

I’ll post up my lists tomorrow to see what y’all think.

From what I’ve seen you really need to mix and match weapons for taking down shields and beating up the hull. Tactics really depend on the mission but my two Legios are going to be really different from a theme standpoint.

Warlord with sunfury, macro gatling blaster and paired gatling blaster is what i tried today. Good thing is it packs hell of a punch with tons of dices and s7 ordance isn't total wimp. Even s5 ordance can get some hits. It's also gentle for reactor so it's tough warlord as you can either push shields or don't need to vent reactor.

Bad thing is range. 24" max for all making targets on turn 1 very unlikely.

Manouver and reactor control seems to be key here.

I'm generally curious as to how effective it is to create a balanced set of roles in one's list vs. a specialized strike force. Like can you gain tactical dominance of the battlefield by having a shortranged brawler advancing on your foe while hammering them with a fire support Warlord from afar and so forth instead of going all in with either long or close range equipment. This might of course vary from mission to mission, but thus far my gut would say the combined list does have an advantage, which feels promising for the game.

Excelent question. I think it's bit of risk/reward. Riskiest but most powerful is dedicated shield/armour busters. This will make those roles most effective but problem is if one gets out(destroyed not only way. Manouvering, reactor etc can also take one effectively out of role) the other is screwed. OTOH generalized can leave one unable to do both

For range it certainly makes orders effective when you can happily first fire with long range titan without worrying about having to get others to the range. OTOH again with manouvering situations can change. For example in my game the bog standard warlord was very much suited for first fire and did so nicely turn 1. Was planning to do on turn 2 but then failed 2+ rerollable(maniple+warlord trait) failed and turn 3 sabotage(good bye first fire, say hello to advance). Then I had to turn and start backing away as double fist reaver(what's up with this configuration coming everywhere?) and knights coming up fast.

One reason I like my trio guns above is that it has flexible gunload. Gatling blasters to strip down shields, macro gatling blaster provides 6 S7 ordnance shot which can be used both to strip shields and provide decent punch and sunfury can be used also for both though provides very nice 4 S10 shots...Nice.

Only issue it has is that 24" range...

Paired laser blasters would reduce shield stripping power but more punch(6 S8) but what worries me there is -1 beyond 16" and inside 16" the carapace weapon rule becomes real threat...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not concentrating all the titans to roughly same area seems pretty good idea. It makes various orders like emergency repairs and first order less obvious for enemy as if they keep doing those you can flank enemy at which point they are really screwed. Also forces enemy to take that from the get go.

Today my warlords were more or less on same line aiming to utilize the good clear lane to pound at the enemy warlord but apart from the lane being bit narrow so if my 24" range warlord moves in the rear one can't shoot(as it is this turned out to work out allright in the end due to sabotage but that was still bad deal for me...). However there with my warlord having shields being bombarded I had to decide let reaver and knights flank me or emergency repair.

Meanwhile as my units were approaching from same angle he had jolly good time emergency repairing safe from knowledge I wasn't flanking him.

BTW is it just us or is the sabotage strategem bit too good? Feels like for first 2CP it's obvious choice. Ability to stop emergency repair/first order when you want and basically have 1/3(I think) chance of preventing warlord from shooting(advance, shut down) for 1 turn or even flat out shut down. Last game for opponent he lost because his warlord shut down losing void shields and being hard to wake up...

IMO 3 CP or the shut down rerolled once or not possible would feel more fair. Or are we missing something? Seems they have had it all the time and here both had.

Apoc launcher btw is pretty useful strategem giving you extra shield stripping on strategem phase.

1/6 chance of a shut-down is ok, but personally I'd probably pull out the mines as my go-to stratagem. Either that or an Apoc Missile Silo.

The Apoc can sit back in a corner and shoot 5 missiles at i think a 5+ (standard of 4+, but +1 for range, -2 for indirect fire) for likely the whole game.

As for the mines - I forget what it reads, but I know it auto hits the legs and it's enough to hurt a warlord and crit a warhound. A really lucky roll could kill a warhound outright. Even a crit on the legs will hold back a warhound from flanking right out of the gate.

For now though, this is just speculation. I've got a game tonite though, hopefully.

The mines cause just few damage most likely though which while nice isn't likely to swing game. It can be nice if you can combine it quickly with some hits to legs but unless you go for aimed odds of getting hits there aren't that big.

After I had leg critical on my warlord I thought that would be cool as well but then I realized how hard it is to get that crit with those...

Meanwhile 5/6 chance of preventing emergency repairs can expose that warlord for bellicosas or even shut down the whole titan. And of course many of those will basically screw titan anyway.

It's not even the shut down but the ability to prevent emergency repairs when shields are down and reactor high(This REALLY screws up enemy titan) and often enough shooting as well.

Apoc launcher is pretty damn useful though. I had today both(he used legion rules, I didn't)

When I used the mines, it took a Reaver down to a single point of structure on its legs as soon as it activated the first time. I failed to capitalise on that, but that was my fault, not the card's. Better use of my Knights could have brought it down in turn 2, for example.

That's pretty lucky though. I think odds of shutting down titan(obvious target being generally warlord) which would have bigger impact on the game than that. No shooting from that, shields down, hard to wake up and after waking up you still then need to get those shields back up. 1/6 of that happening. For legs you need what 3 devastating hits? So 1/3 chance to get 3 hits and then all need to roll what(don't have cards with me) to get devastating hit? If 4+(better than I remember) that's still 4% chance or so that happening(3 hits, 3 devastating hits).

BTW when you generally plan to use the mines? I would think aiming for when some titan is having shields down. Try to get some damage, then bombard shieldless. Using first opportunity would make either having to bombard it regardless of other considerations or waste that damage as if it's not followed suit it's irrelevant.

edit: In similar vein the 2 most common timings for sabotage would be start of movement phase when there's titan on first fire and you have titan nearly shields collapsed to save you from having to roll 6 to start up shields. Or start of order phase when there's enemy titan with shields in sorry state that you don't want to get emergency repair. Using T1 for example would be often waste and basically hoping for that shut down. Our game they were played T3 and T4.

Anyway on another topic are you people using much aimed shots? Yesterday toward the end I got reaver and warlord into fairly sorry state(reaver took 2 direct hits from bellicosa. I didn't even mind my other warlord getting clipped. For one it had shields at 3+, for second when reaver is about to punch a fist into rear getting couple hits from volcano cannon is minor worry! And warlord was getting pummeled by S7 ordnance and S10 sunfury from my warlord) but just couldn't get finishing blows. Made me think maybe I should have used some aimed shots though halving hits(or 1/3'ing if I also have -1 from somewhere) made me hesitant.

I and my opponent used the mines as soon as possible. The chance to inflict early mobility critical hits, and forcing the decision whether or not to use Emergency Repairs made it seem like it wasn't worth waiting.

Okay so it was bit better than I remembered but still it's not critting warlord and for reaver it's still just 50-50 do you cause it if you get 2 hits, 33% if you get 1 and 70% if you get 3 hits. Nice but not quaranteed. Overall 53% chance of getting at least 1 critical if my math is right. Which sounds nice but reaver can cope with that random turning somewhat so might not even press for emergency repair.

Feels it would be better if you can time it when you could be getting more crits to put more than just random 45 degree turn or possibly even blow the titan up.

Could be wrong of albeit. Maybe I'll try that and sabotage next game. Heck combine those to same reaver with shields down and it's going to be one sorry reaver!

Next game planned for 2 weeks. Should get my warhounds. Maybe bring in 180 opposite of this week with venator maniple Could fit 2 reavers and 4 warhounds...Humhum. Speed! Warhounds should be decent knight hunters and if they can bring down the shields that extra shot from reaver(volcano cannon...) could be nice

I got my first game in, and while I may not have any useful tactics to report - I've certainly learned some things NOT to do.

In my game, I had a warlord that was obviously going to be charged by a squad of knights in a turn or two - but a fist-reaver was nearby - on the opposite side of the warlord from where the assault was going to occur. So I pushed reactors to get the warlord and reaver to switch positions.

So my reaver was in a great position to intercept the knights and had some of my own knights nearby to intercept any charges. I figured I could stomp the knights and since I got his reaver's shields down - take that on next. Next strategy phase i figured 'may as well get a free shot in on them' with the reaver, so I issued 'first fire'. Got a devastating hit in on the knights. Opponents knights charged and knocked out 2/3 of my knights. Then.. I realized i either had to move or shoot with my reaver since I had used first fire. My warlord was doing emergency repairs (it's shields were really low and reactor hot), so could't shoot since I had just moved for the reaver/warlord castle. So I could either attack or move with the reaver. I chose to shoot my 1 available weapon. In retrospect perhaps i should have moved to block them from reaching the warlord.

So instead of blasting the knights and pounding them with a reaver fist, I basically stood there like an idiot while they rushed past my reaver and played softball with my warlord's head. Also I made the poor decision to turn my warlord toward the knights - to avoid being flanked, which opened the warlord's flanks to my opponent's warlord at range. So, my opponent targeted the warlord who was at -2 (from armor loss from the knight charge) and -1 for flank - and ended up blowing its head off.

All-in-all though, I was happy with the outcome. Bad decisions and use of commands despite my initially advantageous positioning resulted in a fairly sound defeat. I'm glad to have a game where tactical decisions matter beyond list building - especially as both of us had very similar lists (1 warlord, 1 reaver, 1 lance)

Now that the Warhounds are out (and slowly assembling themselves on my desk), it's interesting to muse upon their use.

The Hounds are pack animals and do best in groups, as they can both mass their shields against fire and use Coordinated Attacks to gain +1 on armour rolls. Given that Titan squadrons do not have to stay in contact with each other, I've been wondering if it would be beneficial to run a far ranging squadron where one machine runs directly towards the enemy to deplete their shields (double megabolters or bolter/plasma, perhaps) while its mate(s) flank a bit and enfilade the now possibly unshielded target with a volley of laserfire from 30" away for that sweet +2 on a Str 8 weapon.

In other ponderings, I am tempted to use more Inferno Guns than might be healthy, especially when my terrain collection eventually allows engines to truly hide amongst the buildings and close for the kill. Some autohitting template goodness should deal with knights and other pesky titans well enough, but I fear they might suffer from the dreaded "not contributing while closing" syndrome which leaves the enemy free to pressurize your other parts and concentrate on these guys later when they close. Unlike a crazed punchy Reaver of doom, a Warhound can be at least somewhat ignored until you absolutely have to deal with it.

Also, damn those things cook themselves up fast if they do anything fancy. Two repair rolls will eventually screw you over and your systems will fail

Not sure was this trick good idea on my part or was I just lucky and opponent played it badly but...

Vital cargo. I had 2 warlords and reaver as big titans. Obvious choise for the cargo would be reaver as it's fast enough. Alternatively could have been warhound if one wants to risk it being destroyed.

Without even 2nd reaver to make him split it felt like it might be tricky to get cargo safely. However I decided to play mind trick and having rolled "reroll command roll" trait for my top guy in warlord(2nd game in row) I went for serious diversion and ADVANCED my warlord turn 1. Meanwhile reaver didn't do anything super fast advancement. This made opponent hesitate for a bit. I also concentrated fire to clear fast elements away from that warlord's path like knights.

Turn 2 I advanced AGAIN with my warlord and this time opponent went for the bait and decided maybe the warlord IS the one with cargo.

Turn 3 reaver also sprinted and enemy titans were suddenly unable to cover both of the titans and warlord advancing third time(and with shields and reactor in pretty sorry state) was already near his table edge as well.

Turn 4 reaver reached table edge. Warlord emergency repair+moved into his DZ managing to survive there for secondaries.

Losing warlord's worth of shooting was painful but T1 split his concentration between titans and T2 he went for the bait leaving my reaver more or less clear path. Maybe got lucky but felt good.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/90/762413.page#10195163

This one made me think. How do people run their knights? (incidentally next time I face the Gryphonicus player I'm considering running whopping 15 of these buggers. 12 and then after ading titans I want I found out I was 160 pts or so short of 2k. Perfect for 3 knights!). Specifically unit size.

Small squad:

+more activations. Super helpful in movement phase.
+you can only kill 3 at once and indeed without split fire(with it's own restrictions) your warlord with mucha mucha guns can only target 3! With volcano cannon hitting in 4-5 at once isn't unheard of so if you have just 3 that's wasted power...
+easier to spread around. See above regarding volcano cannons
-as per above post lots of small squads is lots of easyish vp's for opponent
-your shields are weaker and drop to uselessness very fast
-you activate one by one so each activation in combat phase packs more punch. Albeit sometimes this can be used to your advantage but generally less than in movement
-your units costs more(albeit just 15 pts between 6 and 2x3)

Big squad:

Basically reverse so cheaper, better shields and better punch in combat phase but less activations to help see what opponent does in movement phase and you are more vulnerable to volcano cannons, quake cannons etc and enemy has easier time firing nasty salvo that could take out 4-6 at once. However enemy gets half the vp's killing banner of 6 knights than 2 banners of 3 knights in engage and destroy.

Interesting choice.

How many points even is a standard game?

 ph34r wrote:
How many points even is a standard game?

Depends on the group, really. One could argue that the relatively simple Confrontation level (1250-1750 points) would be the norm, as that gives you plenty of room to wield 4-10 models of warying sizes, but it could also be larger. Or narrative driven. I feel that the standard matched missions are mostly a starting point to get a grasp and then narrative is where the proper game is, but that's just me.

 ph34r wrote:
How many points even is a standard game?

to early to tell but if you build for matched play 1250-1750 you cant do anything wrong.
that point scale is basicly a full size maniple.

I have been playing 1500-2000 pts games myself. Need couple titans per side to really bloom imo

Remember you only need to build within the points band, and there are advantages to taking less points.

Next game against one of my opponents I was planning to field my 15 knights with full venator maniple. Alas issues with warhound purchases mean I\m short 2 warhounds. Was planning to swap warhounds to reaver and 2 knights(neccessiting buying 6th box of knights...) but then today I was thinking more about warlord with fist. I was thinking "well at least it will make cheapish warlord titan". Then I thought "how cheap? Could I possibly fit 2k(opponent is strict with point limits) full myrmidon maniple?". Well made quick list and sure enough it was just about possible to cram 3 warlords and 2 reaver EVERYTHING armed with fist(well chainfists would be option for reavers). I was like "mwahahaha nobody wants to get close to THIS maniple. And first turn all advance and...!" and lightbulp appeared. What if they fail command check? Obviously command post would be taken but even then...With no rerolls even 4+ command for warlord can fail.Indeed odds of veteran princep or one of the 2 warlord failing at least somewhere seems to be 56% or so. That could be bit of bummer I thought.

Then I thought "well 2 minimum axioms would be basically warlord swapper for 2 warhounds. Point wise could get tight and obviously 1 warlord less but freedom to give commands at will" so here's list I came up with:

warlord(claw, macro gatling blaster, apocalypse launcher
reaver(laser blaster, power fist, warp missile)
warhound(infereno gun, plasma blastgun)
warlord(claw, sunfury, vulcan mega bolter array)
reaver(laser blaster, power fist, warp missile)
warhound(inferno gun, plasma blastgun)

Fairly identical equipments. Missiles because with mostly advancing dropping shields could be problematic thus shield ignoring fire support could be useful. Maybe even try aimed shots at legs to slow down some titan? Warhounds will be knight clearing task(opponent loves those and no volcano cannons which are my usual solutions). Turn 1 warlords aim to advance. Maybe reavers too though sooner or later I want those warp missiles on.

Obvious missions I want would be retrieval or vital cargo both which this works. Hold the line is also decent if opponent doesn't have lots of knights. Generally this should have good board control as opponent is unlikely to want to bring anything close to this many fist wielder.

got a first trail game in we didnt play for a set number of round we did want te see how the rules worked and how everything goes.
my knight banner got killed in the first round by a shot from the warlord, his died by a stray shot from mine. i read that you have to take a command test every time you lose a knight from a banner but never seen that on you tube?
then it was a shoot out between the warlords, we were both in cover and had a -2 to shoot luck did favor me because my friend had to make lots of repair rolls to keep his titan standing and couldt order his titan even on a 3.
all in all it was a great game and we a good ltime. i was ammazed how often he rolled a six to bring back his shields to see them get shot down in my shooting phase. those missle launchers where doing a great job.

Played my first easy game too, I had a lot of fun.

My laminated cards with magnetic tape behind means these magnetic pins stay on.

Anybody have had any success with outflank strategem? With high CP cost, opponent knowing turn ahead which side they come and not being able to move before turn 3 seems...lackluster. Except with vital cargo mission where you could score objective basically automatically which seems not interesting use of that strategem. More like crutch.

Ok I've really been wanting to get into AT, but I have a couple of questions before I commit to anything and any advice is appreciated.

1. I heard a rumour going around that the Grandmaster set is going to be rereleased, is this true?

2. Is there any word on when we can expect alternative weapons?

3. Are the Titans themselves easy to magnetise?

4. One thing holding me back is there isn't really much of a player base from what I can see, or perhaps I'm looking in the wrong areas. Does anyone here know if it's that popular in London?


These next questions are more about the tactics.

1. How important is movement in the game? I watched a report on Youtube last night and there really doesn't seem to be much in it besides "stand and shoot". Warlords only have a 4" movement, and even if you push the reactor it only goes to 6". While Reavers and Warhounds have a bit more it doesn't feel like they'll really be able to close gaps or get close before getting blown away.

Additionally, I was flicking through the rulebook and one mission in particular stood out, the Long Retreat on page 78. The Traitor player has to get his Titans within 24" of the board edge to score points, with extra if they're within 12" instead. However, if you have a Warlord, even if you play the full 6 turns pushing the reactor every time, you can't actually make it within 12". I know the Warlord isn't expecting to be nimble, but 4"/6" really doesn't seem like much.

2. I came up with a quick 1750pt list that I think would be a good start.

Warhound Titan
- Vulcan Mega Bolter
- Vulcan Mega Bolter

Warhound Titan
- Turbo Laser
- Turbo Laser

Warhound Titan
- Plasma Blastgun
- Turbo Laser

Reaver Titan
- Laser Blaster
- Volcano Cannon
- Turbo Lasers

Reaver Titan
- Apocalypse Launchers
- Gatling Blaster
- Gatling Blaster

Warlord Titan
- Apocalypse Launchers
- Belicosa Cannon
- Quake Cannon


From what I've seen of the weapon stats I think this list may have some potential. The Warhounds are a harassment unit, with focus on the Vulcan Warhound stripping shields supported by the Plasma one. The Twin-Turbo one is to score additional hits on the others' target as well as protection duty.

The Reavers have the same idea. 2x Gatling Blasters may be good for stripping Voids, and can support the Warlord against other threats.

Thoughts?

1. Probably, but not certainly, they didn't have any in WHW when I last visited.
2. No release dates, but they will be released, confirmed in the twitch stream and to some extent by the weapon cards - GW don't do rules without miniatures any more.
3. Magnetising is fairly easy, the warlord is easiest (it has pre-moulded sockets) but the others only need a bit of filing and cutting - if you've magnetised before, there is nothing to be afraid of.
I would say Warlord (easiest) < Warhound < Reaver < Knights (hardest) for magnetising.
4. Unknown - however, with a reasonable collection of models you can possess enough for two players

How important movement is is dependent upon the amount of terrain and the mission you are playing.
Movement can also restrict or provide targeting options that standing and shooting would not give - a smart move can save a damaged titan or provide target saturation for your opponent to deal with.
The fact that a warlord cannot reasonably score in that scenario is something you have to deal with as a player - this scoring mechanism actively encourages flexible forces.

 Valkyrie wrote:
1. How important is movement in the game? I watched a report on Youtube last night and there really doesn't seem to be much in it besides "stand and shoot". Warlords only have a 4" movement, and even if you push the reactor it only goes to 6". While Reavers and Warhounds have a bit more it doesn't feel like they'll really be able to close gaps or get close before getting blown away.

Important. For starters many missions don't involve just killing. Second killing titans is HARD. 2 warlord can shoot at another and not do much to it.

And of course don't forget advance. 12" for warlord in a turn. 18" for reaver. 24" for warhound.

Also simply positioning stuff matters. It's not just moving fast but for example manipulating fire arcs. If you move so that opponent has to push reactor to keep you up you restrict his orders and force reactor levels up which can be absolutely decisive.

Many youtube reports are like 1 or 2 warlords dueling. Not much out there that I have seen with multiple titans at which point game springs to life.

Additionally, I was flicking through the rulebook and one mission in particular stood out, the Long Retreat on page 78. The Traitor player has to get his Titans within 24" of the board edge to score points, with extra if they're within 12" instead. However, if you have a Warlord, even if you play the full 6 turns pushing the reactor every time, you can't actually make it within 12". I know the Warlord isn't expecting to be nimble, but 4"/6" really doesn't seem like much.

a) advance b) that's why there's multiple titans and not just all warlords.

2. I came up with a quick 1750pt list that I think would be a good start.

Warhound Titan
- Vulcan Mega Bolter
- Vulcan Mega Bolter

Warhound Titan
- Turbo Laser
- Turbo Laser

Warhound Titan
- Plasma Blastgun
- Turbo Laser

something to keep in mind especially with #2 is that warhounds are VERY VERY VERY reactor sensitive. Few reactor slots, crew of 2. They will overheat a LOT. And overheat is BAD. At orange it's 50-50 does your shield go down(Bad news). At red it's 50-50 do you avoid worst(so suffer just hefty damage...) or either lose shields or just flat out BLOW UP.

2 turbo laser sounds cool but keep in mind you shouldn't be draining for that shieldbane all the time...Ditto for #3 shieldbane+maximum power combo. VERY RISKY.

BTW reactor handling is 100% essential in this game...

Reaver Titan
- Apocalypse Launchers
- Gatling Blaster
- Gatling Blaster

Too specific for my taste. What if he doesn't have somebody to punch armour due to reactor/positioning issues? Or puncher lacks this guys guns for those reasons? Don't count on multiple titans working together to always work.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Btw regarding double bolter and double laser warhounds. Another reason why i would split weapons 1 of each for both apart from big boost to reactor control was also touched in reaver. Ability to work independently. Imagine first vulcan was surprisingly effective and knocks shields down. Or just is like almost out shields. Second vulcan is fairly pointless. With laser if that happens s8 is nice punch. If shields up push a fire shielbane shots. This is why i like laser blastnrs. Flexible

In my lists I’ve been doing laser/megabolter and plasma/megabolter so each Warhound can punch armor and shields. I’m looking forward to adding a third seeing what works.

Hoping to play this weekend to get my brawler Reaver into combat and hope he doesn’t get taken down in a hail of gunfire before getting to do much.

One warhound combo I like is inferno gun and plasma. That's nasty knight clearer.

Talk about the inferno. That may be a good option for a third Warhound with a megabolter.

Hmm. Thing about inferno is that as it\s template weapon it benefits from attacking group of tightly packed targets. Which basically is currently pretty much only knights. Maybe warhound squadrons but it's not that useful against bigger knights. 3 S7 hits is nice but short range...However with knights you can often get 4-6 hits at S7 which starts to dent knight banner. As such I view inferno gun more of anti-knight weapon. However for that the vulcan doesn't really offer much as the S isn't enough to really worry knights.

As such I prefer either laser blaster(S8 hurts them and shieldbane can be used to make those shield saves much less likely) or plasma gun for 2 shots of plasma nastyness. And short range being optimal range doesn't matter that much when your secondary gun is flamer!

Vulcan fails at hurting knights and inferno lacks punch against titans after vulcan drops shields. That's my problem with the combination.

Good points. Maybe plasma/inferno if I have the points.

Inferno doesn't lack punch that badly, though. Considering it's S 7 with three autohits vs. S 8 0-4, usually 2, others, they are pretty equal against everything besides toughest parts of a Warlord. Of course the actual question is how you tend to use them on the field, go close enough and give them d3 S 7 Smashes on the heinies for good measure

S7 vs s8 is actually surprisingly big in practice. Vs reaver body allows 2/3 odds of hurting and gives shot at devastating. Vs warhounds devastjtings become decent shot and vs warlord 7 really struggles. Especially with short range reducing # of shots you will get off

tneva82 wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:
1. How important is movement in the game? I watched a report on Youtube last night and there really doesn't seem to be much in it besides "stand and shoot". Warlords only have a 4" movement, and even if you push the reactor it only goes to 6". While Reavers and Warhounds have a bit more it doesn't feel like they'll really be able to close gaps or get close before getting blown away.

Important. For starters many missions don't involve just killing. Second killing titans is HARD. 2 warlord can shoot at another and not do much to it.

And of course don't forget advance. 12" for warlord in a turn. 18" for reaver. 24" for warhound.

Also simply positioning stuff matters. It's not just moving fast but for example manipulating fire arcs. If you move so that opponent has to push reactor to keep you up you restrict his orders and force reactor levels up which can be absolutely decisive.

Many youtube reports are like 1 or 2 warlords dueling. Not much out there that I have seen with multiple titans at which point game springs to life.

Additionally, I was flicking through the rulebook and one mission in particular stood out, the Long Retreat on page 78. The Traitor player has to get his Titans within 24" of the board edge to score points, with extra if they're within 12" instead. However, if you have a Warlord, even if you play the full 6 turns pushing the reactor every time, you can't actually make it within 12". I know the Warlord isn't expecting to be nimble, but 4"/6" really doesn't seem like much.

a) advance b) that's why there's multiple titans and not just all warlords.

2. I came up with a quick 1750pt list that I think would be a good start.

Warhound Titan
- Vulcan Mega Bolter
- Vulcan Mega Bolter

Warhound Titan
- Turbo Laser
- Turbo Laser

Warhound Titan
- Plasma Blastgun
- Turbo Laser

something to keep in mind especially with #2 is that warhounds are VERY VERY VERY reactor sensitive. Few reactor slots, crew of 2. They will overheat a LOT. And overheat is BAD. At orange it's 50-50 does your shield go down(Bad news). At red it's 50-50 do you avoid worst(so suffer just hefty damage...) or either lose shields or just flat out BLOW UP.

2 turbo laser sounds cool but keep in mind you shouldn't be draining for that shieldbane all the time...Ditto for #3 shieldbane+maximum power combo. VERY RISKY.

BTW reactor handling is 100% essential in this game...

Reaver Titan
- Apocalypse Launchers
- Gatling Blaster
- Gatling Blaster

Too specific for my taste. What if he doesn't have somebody to punch armour due to reactor/positioning issues? Or puncher lacks this guys guns for those reasons? Don't count on multiple titans working together to always work.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Btw regarding double bolter and double laser warhounds. Another reason why i would split weapons 1 of each for both apart from big boost to reactor control was also touched in reaver. Ability to work independently. Imagine first vulcan was surprisingly effective and knocks shields down. Or just is like almost out shields. Second vulcan is fairly pointless. With laser if that happens s8 is nice punch. If shields up push a fire shielbane shots. This is why i like laser blastnrs. Flexible

Ah that's one thing I hadn't noticed is the orders, so you can give up your shooting for the chance to move again? Pretty handy indeed.

Good point about the double-Turbos, I thought the Draining effect was optional if you want to go for the Shieldbane effect, in that case Turbo/Plasma or Turbo/Vulcan may be better.

In general is it best to mix the weapons rather than having dedicated roles then?

tneva82 wrote:One warhound combo I like is inferno gun and plasma. That's nasty knight clearer.

Sounds interesting, do the Infernos have potential against other Titans as well?

Draining for Shieldbane is optional but guns with fewer shots have a hard time overwhelming a 3+ shield save without it.

 Valkyrie wrote:
Ah that's one thing I hadn't noticed is the orders, so you can give up your shooting for the chance to move again? Pretty handy indeed.

Yep. Here's story of how I won(one of my only 2 wins so far) one game. Mission for me was vital cargo. As this involves taking one titan off the enemy board edge usually this would be time for reaver or warhound right? Surely not the slow&lumbering warlord. Mind you titan carrying the cargo is not public info.

However...I hit an idea. Turn 1: One of my 2 warlords advanced and pushed reactors both time. 12" forward. Reaver on other side of board wasn't advancing(though was pushing) and generally shooting was spent clearing path from warlord. Opponent was bit of "hmm".

Turn 2: Repeat. Now the warlord was 24" from my deployment zone and only 18" from table edge. Opponent got REAL worried and started to try to stop that mad rushing warlord.

Turn 3: Once more unto the breach. With fire being poured I even used overload void shields(2+ save but if you fail bye bye void shields for game and can't push reactor to get reroll 1's) to keep the shields up at one point. I'm now 36" ahead(more or less). Reaver also made for dash it now for good.

Opponent had to figure which titan is the real one(and mind you on T4 if he ignored warlord "no way it is") it would move 4*12=48" and since deployment zones are 6" more than enough to get into the edge...So he CANNOT let it go unless he knows FOR SURE I'm just bluffing as unless I fail command test(which btw I could once per game reroll and was passing on 2+ anyway) I'm out there. Not that preventing warlord is toughest things from doing that but that opens up space for other titans. It also screwed HIS mission as well.

Mad rush. Also in another game I ended up in enemy DZ with less of a mad rush as well.

Good point about the double-Turbos, I thought the Draining effect was optional if you want to go for the Shieldbane effect, in that case Turbo/Plasma or Turbo/Vulcan may be better.

It IS optional. If you don't want shieldbane no need but thing is why not keep option? If they are mixed you have more drainage room and double the crew to fix. Twin vulcan has much less heat issues so would have room to spare. Without shieldbane 2 shots is much less impressive vs shields. And of course as I mentioned what if 1st vulcan already drops shields? Second is still firing but suddenly without role. With turbo available you can punch armour. If shields still up shieldbane and shoot and then figure with other warhound what to do.

In general is it best to mix the weapons rather than having dedicated roles then?

Personal taste but I don't like ultra specialization. Too many ways to disable one titan from combat. Leg criticals will play havoc(turning 45 degree left or right randomly plays havoc), reactor, having to use emergency repairs to restore shields and thus move or shoot(especially tricky with leg critical! If you just got turned away from enemy and need emergency repair it's either turn and don't shoot or stand still and have nobody in sight!).

Basically if your plan counts on having 2 ultra specialists working in tandem what happens if one gets knocked out? Reaver with twin gatling and reaver with twin volcano cannon. Gatlings will drop shield but won't be punching armour, volcanos will never get through shields. If one gets out of work the other is fairly useless as well.

I try to have about same range band(short/medium/long) but then have at least something that can work for other. This is why I'm fan of laser blasters etc. They can do job of both ok. Shields up? Shieldbane. Shields down? S8 has decent punch with multiple shots.

Sounds interesting, do the Infernos have potential against other Titans as well?

Potential yes but S7 is surprisingly big weakness vs S8. Also you don't benefit from the template as much except vs warhound squadrons so you are looking at 3 hits at super short range. Also no aimed shots to finish off near dead titans which I find notable disadvantage. It's not useless vs titans but it's definitely more of a knight buster. 4-6 hits that need to roll 2+ to cause damage is much better than 3 hits needing to roll 4+(plus of course different odds of devastating hits etc) and lack of aimed shots is irrelevant as no aimed shots vs knights anyway

Actually you can aim versus knights, in which case you get to pick which knight dies instead of their controller. Rarely useful, but against a large banner you might want to punch their leader out to lock them in Shaken hell, good luck rolling that 6+ Command reliably.

 Sherrypie wrote:
Actually you can aim versus knights, in which case you get to pick which knight dies instead of their controller. Rarely useful, but against a large banner you might want to punch their leader out to lock them in Shaken hell, good luck rolling that 6+ Command reliably.

Huh...Didn't know that. Well that's slight disadvantage for inferno gun vs knights but I take that.

Albeit often they die to volcano cannons or quake cannons so no aimed shots anyway

Tried crazy list with twin axiom and all that could have had fist. Faced minimum axiom and venator. I got either engage&destroy or vital cargo. Neither is ideal but took vital cargo putting to one reaver.


Turn 1 i did advance on all. Tried to use warhounds to make opponent think one carrles. Much to my surprise warhounds on left headed center leaving reaver with dual gatling vs warhound and cargo reaver. Firepower started bad for him but eventually rolld 4 fails to non-cargo reaver. Ouch. Turn 2 i should probably have emergency repaired but advance on all again.

Reaver without shields was destroyed but luckily collased safe direction.

Turn 3 i screwed up. Warlord charged his but blind barrage. Hit but had attacked body so nothing big. But mistake was advancing with reaver past his. Fist reaver not clubbing reaver? Told which was real deal. Reaver backed and turned toward but real problem was warlora that backed and did 90 turn. Both bellicosa hit with criticalx2 to legs. Made advance inch too short and gatling blasted reaver up anywav.

Final insult my warlord was immobilised with triple criticals.i had immobilised warlord(1 direct to legs enough) and 1 fairly intact warlord. He was almost unhurt...

All fists just doesn#t work that well. Even had warlords been 3 reavers don't think that would have changed. No pressure with reactors etc. Hold the line and retrieval would have been better but fists for 1 reaver and warlord would have been better

I'm jealous, I printed those buildings and laminated them to hold up but they bow out and don't sit like a square.

On the subject of maniples can anyone talk about the Venator maniple? How often are you really getting the effect to proc? Now that I've got 4 Warhounds I can do something like:

2000pts:
Group 1
Reaver
Melta/Volcano/Missiles
Warhound
Turbolaser/Megabolter
Warhound
Turbolaser/Megabolter

Group 2
Reaver
Melta/Volcano/Missiles
Warhound
Turbolaser/Megabolter
Warhound
Turbolaser/Megabolter

Warlord
Volcano/Gatling
Laserblasters

So that's two mini Venators with the potential for the Reavers to hit at long range or short range on whichever target gets its shields stripped by its pair of Warhounds. The thing is can I reliably expect a pair of Warhounds to finish off the shields for a Reaver or should I recombine everything so it's 4 Warhounds paired with a single Reaver?

I haven\t had best of luck with it but partially due to not utilizing to best of effect. For example reacting to enemy knights and splitting pair of warhounds elsewhere. So far I have used it twice and today I got hit by it but not to best effects. Opponent is strict WYSIWYG so until weapon sprues comes he's on limited weapons so was limited to laser blaster. Meanwhile when I have used it's been with volcano cannon which unsurprisingly is MUCH more nasty with it and indeed both times enemy titan was hit HARD. So I have had it twice out of 3 games and he got it in 1/1.

Not sold on just 2 warhounds at least in one turn. Voids to full helps and for example if opponent is feeling gambling and suffers few hits he can overload so that 4+ with one failed save suddenly turns into 2+...That for example helped my warhound today when I used it against 3 hits precisely to avoid getting blasted by reaver with collapsing shields!

Only a pair of Warhounds for each Reaver was my concern. Dropping the Warlord means more Warhounds but that means dropping a serious gun platform. I’d rather just reorganize that list so it’s one Venator with 4 Warhounds and a Reaver with the other titans supporting.

Then again that warlord packs quite a punch as well. Alternatively use the warhounds from other warhound to help around. Expecting both to get it might be optimistic but that doesn\t mean 2 venator's can't work on together. 3 warhounds could knock shields down and one can then soft for next round etc and simply you can start with the one not in ideal target based on positions etc. Also one reaver could easily end up unable to operate due to reactors/damage as I mentioned previously in this thread so having 2 reavers so you can have 1 reaver that can get free shots still even if one isn't able to do is handy.

And it's not like shield must be brought down ONLY by said venator's warhound. "wrong" warhound can soften up first and then switch to proper ones. Okay occasionally you will knock down shields completely resulting in no bonus but that's not THAT often.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Btw back to subject of twin turbo. Warhounds are super vulnerable to reactor. Mere 2 push in average and you are in orange! 1/6 times first push results that. Then you are 50-50 does your shields collapse. 1/4 times you don't even reduce any heats. In short reactor is very, very tricky to maintain. That's why 2 weapons which have draining as part doesn't appeal to me.

Today one warhound was basically self destructing due to orange reactor...

Well, draining on turbo is optional. I quite like to have a long range Warhound with 4 S 8 shots lurking around, able to quickly relocate to someone's side arc or just keep on pummeling from afar in opportunistic fashion. Run close with bolters and flamers roaring, use Coordinated Attacks to zap after shields are down.

I wish I got to play more games...

Btw something to consider. Opponent wasn't sold on it but i think it can be valid to charge yourself even without cc if you are about to be charged by one but can't escape by backing and turn and leave would leave in bad position. Advantages would be less attacks for him and more which might allow to knock that fist off! Temptation is first fire but even if shieldless not quaranteed to stop.

tneva82 wrote:
Btw something to consider. Opponent wasn't sold on it but i think it can be valid to charge yourself even without cc if you are about to be charged by one but can't escape by backing and turn and leave would leave in bad position. Advantages would be less attacks for him and more which might allow to knock that fist off! Temptation is first fire but even if shieldless not quaranteed to stop.

Entirely plausible, d3+[0,3] Smash attacks can hurt especially with the larger titans. Of course the WS is what it is without bonuses, but it is better than taking the hit yourself.

Yes it's not quaranteed but if you snap the fist off you got big survival boost. If enemy isn't near dead first fire is unlikely stop unless you like hit legs with bellicosa. Not something to do automatically(good) but one more tool to consider. Especially if you don't have blind barrage to stymifie the charge

An interesting game today, legio Favilla clashed with Astorum.

He had Engage and Destroy, I got Vital Cargo. He had a Myrmidon maniple with two Warlords and Reavers, while I still had none (Reavers on the painting table), but we generously decided that my Iron-Clad Tyrant would still work on other engines than my Seniores, too. After pondering for a bit, I almost gave the package to my Princeps Seniores atop Iudex Ultionis on right flank, but eventually decided to go via refused flank on the left side and packed it in Echo Dolorum, a turbolaser Warhound. Pretty clear choice to put it on a Warhound, though I did apply feint pressure on the right flank by always advancing with Iudex as he blasted away.

Off to a hectic start we went: my right Knights vaporizing under volcano cannon fire after their cover got blasted to bits and his Reavers, under heavy fire, both fried their VSGs via Voids to Full! by turn three. My Warhounds legged it behind the buildings as a pair, sharing their shields as they went and holding pretty well under some indirect shrapnel. Until the one with the package got Sabotaged mid-Full Stride and found a few targeting beads turning to its direction. Uh-oh. Edax Rerum, its packmate, immediately used its Stride to bodily shield the important, and now unshielded, one from fire by granting it pretty good cover. That worked well enough for a while and as they dodged massive damage, I covered Echo with smoke and the pair advanced, whereupon Edax Rerum got blasted apart by the Reaver-Warlord combo, standing there dead and silent. Well, until we remembered that being on orange reactor actually adds some to the roll, thereby making it a tumble and as luck would have it, he first stumbled towards the low wall in front of him and then bounced back, falling on top of Echo and injuring its legs. Great job guys, great job.

At this juncture, Echo Dolorum had managed to get one shield back and was able to dodge the worst of the First Fired plasma fusillade raining on it as I kicked the gears into Full Stride once more. Seeing the package carrier rush past the firing sector of the Warlord, a banner of suicidal knights led by Ferro Ignique surged to harry the God-Machine and buy time for Echo. On the right flank, Iudex Ultionis crashed through a building and smote a shieldless Reaver metres away from its face with all the guns, sending it backwards, where it crashed on top of a large building and tore it down with it in its slumping death throes. On the other hand, the enemy leader blasted his shields away and prepared to unleash a good ol' fashioned double tapped volcano hell on him, possibly securing too many VP's for me to ever contend with. Repair, repair, shouted the princeps as he hammered the buttons of his communicator!

The boosted Full Stride mobility of a Warhound is a thing to behold. Flaming, reactor screaming, not one shot fired through the game, Echo Dolorum dashed away from all its opponents and out of sights slipped though the perimeter to secure the cargo. Behind him the knights of banner Ignique cheered and stood their ground under the Warlord's frustrated return fire, but it was already over. Iudex Ultionis flared to life and three levels of voids sprung to life just in time to prevent the enemy leader's kill, allowing the forces to disengage.

20-15 victory, I killed a Reaver and injured another to death's door, while he managed to fell one brave Warhound and a knight banner. Titans are tough and boy does Dangerous Terrain play havoc on you, especially as we also apply the damage part to Knights as well (though a bit of a house rule, it just feels better that way. If say, an acid lake, is strong enough to melt a titan, it bloody well will dissolve a knight. This is also intuitively supported by the rulebook saying that Dangerous Terrain damage goes through void AND ion shields. Why say that, if the knights flat out ignored it? We just say it doesn't slow them down, as they are Agile.). Warhounds really can't go dashing through it or they'll just lose their legs. Overall I'm fairly happy with the doggos, they feel very satisfying to use when they have a purpose and punishingly squishy if you make the mistake of sending them on the line.

Yeah my Warhounds died quickly when I left them unsupported. That looked fun, even more so with painted titans!

 Fajita Fan wrote:
Yeah my Warhounds died quickly when I left them unsupported. That looked fun, even more so with painted titans!

Warhounds are fairly vulnerable. Issue is not just low shield values but more so the reactor. They can push ONCE safely. After that you are looking at going to orange and 50-50 losing shields and "just" suffering S9 hits to body...

tneva82 wrote:

 Fajita Fan wrote:
Yeah my Warhounds died quickly when I left them unsupported. That looked fun, even more so with painted titans!

Warhounds are fairly vulnerable. Issue is not just low shield values but more so the reactor. They can push ONCE safely. After that you are looking at going to orange and 50-50 losing shields and "just" suffering S9 hits to body...

And even that one is questionable, as you can roll two. The shields, on the other hand, are fairly durable until they are focused on. Merged 3+ saves can take incidental shots for a moment well enough, but reactor heat... That's going to do a number on you.

 Sherrypie wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Fajita Fan wrote:
Yeah my Warhounds died quickly when I left them unsupported. That looked fun, even more so with painted titans!

Warhounds are fairly vulnerable. Issue is not just low shield values but more so the reactor. They can push ONCE safely. After that you are looking at going to orange and 50-50 losing shields and "just" suffering S9 hits to body...

And even that one is questionable, as you can roll two. The shields, on the other hand, are fairly durable until they are focused on. Merged 3+ saves can take incidental shots for a moment well enough, but reactor heat... That's going to do a number on you.

Yep. I def have to rein my urge to push for speed etc and just go with standard movement where not crucial but funnily enough with this reavers tends to be not that much slower after all. And even warlords can keep up fairly well with 6" move.

Reactor levels are nasty. And warhounds have just 2 repair crew to boot...

Regarding heat, there's an interesting situation there with plasma weaponry. A buddy of mine originally felt it was stupid that a Warhound's plasma blastgun could do as much damage as the Warlord's Sunfury, but I thought (and now still do having experienced it) they serve somewhat different needs and Sunfury still edges out as the more potent weapon. Reason here being that the Warhound is going to pay for Maximal Fire eventually, as even singular heats can tip it over catastrophically and it's less accurate over 8", whereas Sunfury doesn't really bother the Warlord that much unless it is doing a little boost dance to maneuver at the same time and can aim. Aiming, I feel, is the critical difference there, as Titans tend to be pretty durable against random shots (lots of systems and redundancy to take the hits before dying), whereas S 10 hits really hurt already damaged parts with injury plusses.

Theoretically both can dish out 4 S 10 hits, in practice I see Warhounds taking S 8 potshots at opportunistic targets to hurt them, while Warlords pepper fresh targets with S 10 holes and execute wounded ones when they get the drop.

Also heat related, just noticed Reavers, being fluffwise older and better tech, only seem to have one orange slot on their reactors. Neat.

 Sherrypie wrote:
Regarding heat, there's an interesting situation there with plasma weaponry. A buddy of mine originally felt it was stupid that a Warhound's plasma blastgun could do as much damage as the Warlord's Sunfury, but I thought (and now still do having experienced it) they serve somewhat different needs and Sunfury still edges out as the more potent weapon. Reason here being that the Warhound is going to pay for Maximal Fire eventually, as even singular heats can tip it over catastrophically and it's less accurate over 8", whereas Sunfury doesn't really bother the Warlord that much unless it is doing a little boost dance to maneuver at the same time and can aim. Aiming, I feel, is the critical difference there, as Titans tend to be pretty durable against random shots (lots of systems and redundancy to take the hits before dying), whereas S 10 hits really hurt already damaged parts with injury plusses.

Theoretically both can dish out 4 S 10 hits, in practice I see Warhounds taking S 8 potshots at opportunistic targets to hurt them, while Warlords pepper fresh targets with S 10 holes and execute wounded ones when they get the drop.

Also heat related, just noticed Reavers, being fluffwise older and better tech, only seem to have one orange slot on their reactors. Neat.

I wouldn't say they are equally much damage really. -1 to hit from over 8" REALLY hurts, no aim is biggie(4 shots is enough you can realistically aim vs near crippled spot) and as you said warhound suffers more from overheat. Albeit ability to hit even when you miss is nice. But in general agreed.

And for last one yeah despite having less reactor spots takes as much heat slips to get to orange as warlord. Small things like these are surprisingly easy to miss with titans. Might not sound that big but as I have learned many many times going into orange is bad bad news. It's telling bunch of S9 hits to your body is often PREFERABLE result in the overheat table...

tneva82 wrote:


I wouldn't say they are equally much damage really. -1 to hit from over 8" REALLY hurts, no aim is biggie(4 shots is enough you can realistically aim vs near crippled spot) and as you said warhound suffers more from overheat. Albeit ability to hit even when you miss is nice. But in general agreed.

Do note, that we're talking about potential damage here. Both weapons are factually capable of putting out four S 10 hits, even if Sunfury realistically is going to be doing that more often and more accurately where you actually want it.

I see the sunfury as final slot for a warlord.
Missiles, Volcano cannon and a sunfury gives you a lot of versatility.

If shields are down > Volcano > Maximal plasma > missiles
If shields are up > missiles > check shields, if up > sunfury, if down > volcano cannon. Then follow up with the other to finish the job.

DaemonJellybaby wrote:
I see the sunfury as final slot for a warlord.
Missiles, Volcano cannon and a sunfury gives you a lot of versatility.

If shields are down > Volcano > Maximal plasma > missiles
If shields are up > missiles > check shields, if up > sunfury, if down > volcano cannon. Then follow up with the other to finish the job.

That's actually very good order. Plasma can be used to aim near dead spot and max damage bonus even missile can kill off warlord(lost one like that) with aimed shots.

Only issue with combo is range conflict. 24" guns i often i want to advance t1 as nothing in range anyway. Here less good idea

tneva82 wrote:

DaemonJellybaby wrote:
I see the sunfury as final slot for a warlord.
Missiles, Volcano cannon and a sunfury gives you a lot of versatility.

If shields are down > Volcano > Maximal plasma > missiles
If shields are up > missiles > check shields, if up > sunfury, if down > volcano cannon. Then follow up with the other to finish the job.

That's actually very good order. Plasma can be used to aim near dead spot and max damage bonus even missile can kill off warlord(lost one like that) with aimed shots.

Only issue with combo is range conflict. 24" guns i often i want to advance t1 as nothing in range anyway. Here less good idea

Eh, it's not really in conflict if you deploy it well. Not firing one gun turn one isn't that bad if you can fire the other without pause and wait for the proper opportunity to punish people with the plasma gun.

Tactics,

Observations:
Knights - knight banner size of 4 or 5 (or even 6) is surprisingly resilient to low / medium strength firepower, however, banner size of 5 or 6, tends to be a bit unwieldy in maneuvering, and a challenge to keep in cover / out of line of sight, a banner of 4 knights seems to be the "sweet spot".
Knights - targeting knights, making called shots, extremely valuable, can take out the thermal cannon, or take out the leader making their command checks a challenge
Knights - knights in the open will absolutely be totally wiped out by a volcano cannon, avoid this at any cost
Knights - knights up close will totally devastate what ever they target,
Summary: knights are a "glass cannon" keep them in cover, out of line of sight, maneuver to get in close and destroy your enemy, if they are caught in the open .. they .. will... die !!!!

Warhound Titans - many discussions of specilizing, them (i.e. 1 warhound with double vulcan, 1 with double turbo laser) observation has shown this tactic to be some what unreliable. I now operate multiple warhounds, each with vulcan megabolter and plasma blastgun.(see follow on comments reguarding blast weapons). I always run them in a pair squadroned up. Running a squadron of 3 is possible, but a challenge to maneuver together to support each other. Running 2 squadrons of 2 warhounds.. setting up one squadron on each flank is a viable tactic.

Warlord Titans- extremly durable, hard to kill.
However, the Carapace rule for their carapace weapons, means there is a 10" bubble around them were smaller targets are "safe".. the extremly low speed of the warlord makes this a major weakness if targets get in that close. Blast weapons, such as the volcano cannon, are awsome at wrecking targets and casuing massive damage, they will absolutely destroy knight banners, however, the 5" template means that when smaller targets get up close, you will be unable to shoot them (please note the rule for blast weapons that the center hole must be over the targets base.. meaning smaller targets that get up close will not be able to be shot at, because the 5" template can overlap the base of the warlord and that is not allowed) this means.. that a warlord armed with the apoc missile launcher plus pair of volcano cannons will be totaly unable to shoot at smaller targets that get up close or in base contact.
Warlord weapons -
Plasma cannon is viable option for replacement of the volcano cannon, it is not a blast weapon, and will be able to shoot at targets at point blank range, and still engage targets at distance
Quake Cannon - extremly effective weapon, and no shinannigans with the plasma reactor, but is a blast weapon, and suffers from the negatives of when targets get up close
Power Fist - will make anyone think twice about getting close to a warlord, however, this is gamble. Take the fist and keep opponents away due to the threat the power fist represents, but loose any ranged capabilities and deal no damage from that weapon slot. Best option is to take a ranged weapon, that does not have a blast template (plasma cannon best option it seems)

Carapace weapons -
All but one of the carapace weapons have that restriction of straight ahead column fire.
Apocolypse Missile launcher is the most viable at shield stripping, the straight column line of fire means the warlord will almost always need to be turning slightly to align to target.
The warlord carapace mounted gattling blasters have a 90 degree front arc presenting with more targeting capabilities, but only have a 24" range, due to the carapace rule, this typicaly means you will only be able to shoot at targets from 10"-24" range (this is a weakness vs fast moving targets, and while fantastic as a shield striping weapon due to high volumn of fire, the limited range makes it questionable at best)

Summary: Warlord I have found best used as a long range support platform, the threat it presents can force opponents to manuver to avoid the threat it presents or to close with rapidly to get under its arc of fire to destroy it.. use this psychological factor to your advantage. NEVER leave a warlord titan unsupported

Reaver Titan: the speed, manuverability and weapons load out options make this the most flexible of all the titans, and we could spend many hours discussing the options and all would be viable, I will instead discuss what i personaly use the reaver for.
1) body guard, for the warlord.. Gattling + thermal cannon + apoc launcher load out, staying some what close to the warlord, anyone that wants to close within the "bubble" of the warlord must go thru the reaver, or must deal with the reaver first, set up in such a way that if anyone wish's to engage the reaver, they must also expose themselves to the fire power from the warlord. This weapon load out is extremly efficient, the combo of the gattling / apoc launcher will strip shields efficiently, the thermal cannon (refer to the fusion special rule) will wreck what ever unshielded target it hits, and can cause massive damage to knight banners, it is a 3" blast weapon and suffers all the negatives that go along with it (see above) but not as extreme as the 5" blast
2) objective taker / flanker, same load out but working with warhound titans to flank opponents

Pretty sure the gatling blaster arc is a typo. Every other warlord carapace weapon is forward corridor only, I don't think there is supposed to be anything particularly special about them.

Although the plasma cannon can fire point blank, it only hits on 5s as you'd have to use weapon skill. If you do get your Warlord charged, you'll really wish you'd taken the power fist after all... Better than a volcano cannon in that case, but the plasma cannon is still probably only going to get you a single S8 hit.

for me, the very short range of the gattling blaster I have found a challenge to work with.. fast targets I might get one round of shooting befor they are able to get inside the 10" bubble,

The plasma cannon, only hits on 5s if target is within 2" but anything further out hits on 3s, which is better then not hitting anything at all if I had a power fist and target is 3"+ away,

Part of the reason my tactics always include a "body guard" for the warlord, (1 reaver and 1 small banners of knights), remaining army to flank / take objectives

Typical 2000 point army List
Warlord (Apoc launcher + Plasma + Volcano cannon)
2x Reaver (Apoc launcher + Thermal Cannon + Gat )
2x Warhounds (plasma + Vulcan)
2x knight banners, 4 knights each

I'm starting to think Knights are fairly obsolete now that Warhounds are out. Warhounds excel at everything Knights do except melee, which is good because it means you're encouraged to keep your 'hounds dancing around the 8-12" range band instead of up close where magazine detonations kill all the things.

In general I find that the Apocalypse and twin Belicosa Warlord is a fine Titan to build your force around. Park it somehwere and rain death at long range. Resist the urge to close with the enemy.

A Reaver, then, makes an excellent escort to the Warlord. It can be equipped with an Apocalypse launcher too, adding its fire to the Warlord's at long range, and a pair of Laser Blasters to punish any nasty flankers that try to close in on the Warlord.

Warhounds I find useful for rushing up under cover to bring their weapons to bear on preferably the same target that's being bombarded by the Warlord. The pups can rapidly down shields with their mega bolters and follow up with close-range plasma and turbo laser fire. They also make good Knight hunters.

As for tactics, I believe in concentrating firepower, destroying one enemy engine utterly before shifting fire to the next. In a contest with relatively few moving pieces, taking out one enemy engine can easily cost him 20% of his total firepower. If you can leverage that advantage to take down the second engine even faster, you're well on your way to steamroll towards victory!

Finallly, loadouts: I think it's wise to spread your anti-shield and anti-armor weapons out across your engines instead of focusing on one or the other. A twin vulcan Warhound is going to be useless against an unshielded Warlord, whereas with a turbo laser it could still make a dent. Worse yet, if your dedicated shield stripper gets destroyed (and a smart enemy will make it a priority target), the rest of your force is now throwing high-power weaponry uselessly avainst viod shields!

Regarding the Warlord's carapace gatlings' arc, that is definitely a typo. All Warlord carapace guns have the fire corridor as an arc, all Reaver guns have 360 arc. There is no reason to believe that one gun would be special in such a way without paying a lot more.

Don't have a screenshot with me, but I also seem to remember James Hewitt commenting on this very situation closer to the launch, saying woops, that's a layout typo from the graphic design phase.

Theory Crafting:
found some of my old epic stuff, messing around with theoretical rules / ideas

Leman Russ Tank Company
points: unknown
10 tanks
BS 4+, WS 4+
each tank has:
Battle Cannon, short 8" +1, long 24" --, Dice 1, Str 5, ordnance
Lascannon, short 12" --, long 24" --, Dice 1, Str 5
each tank has an armor value of 9, roll to hit, then roll armor penetration, each point of damage kills 1 tank
example. Volcano Cannon - 5" template, lands on 4 tanks, scoreing 4 hits, roll 4 dice, for every dice of 2+ kill one tank

when the tanks fire, all must fire at the same target
in theory, they will be extremly fragile, sweeping them off the board by the handful, but with concentrated fire, they can do a decent amount of damage to knights and smaller titans

Super Heavy Tank ideas
Shadowsword
thinking of useing the questoris support banner template, minus the ion shields, all other stats / armor , ect remaining the same
1-3 shadowswords per detachment, points cost: unknown
weapons, each tank would have 1 volcano cannon, able to upgrade adding 2 or 4 las-cannons
volcano cannon, would use the stats from the reaver volcano cannon weapon card (ignoreing the draining effect, keep it strength 10, or reduce to strength 9, undecided yet)
Lascannons, would be short 12" / long 24" with zero accuracy bonus/penalty, 1 dice per las-cannon, at strength 5

I’m printing an 8mm Shadowsword. According to the fluff they can’t fire a volcano quickly, it should have to remain stationary to fire and possibly melt down if fired in a successive turn.

Was crunching some math mostly for knight h2h though guess my table can be used to figure out which part to aim in terms of pure damage output(though aimed shots aren't generally done with "where I can cause most damage points for undamaged titan. Where to shoot is generally decided by which is near dead). Anyway noticed S differences cause some interesting effects. Comparing S7 vs S8 with 10 attacks hitting on 2+. (note I might have screwed up my logic or math somewhere and I'm going with battlescribe stats as I don't have terminals with me ATM)

S7 Reaver:

body 4.16
head: 6.94
legs: 5.5

S8 reaver:

body 6.9
head 9.7
legs 8.3

S7 warhound

body 8.3
head 4.16
legs 6.94

S8 warhound

body: 11.11
head: 6.94
legs: 9.72

S7 Warlord:

body: 2.77
head: 1.38
legs: 2.77

S8 warlord:

body: 5.55
head: 2.77
legs: 4.16

So in terms of pure damage blips it's reaver: head, warhound body, warlord either body or legs unless S8 at which point body wins out. In terms of critical hits only S8 warhound body can cause so that doesn't really affect. Of course previous damage is going to have big impact with modifiers and less to do to destroy titan.

New knights will be very lethal. S8 is def on titan hurting level. And generally the higher S the less difference amount of damage blips caused is between locations.

Once I get back home and have cards will start working on what happens if I attack weapons. Is it faster to take down titan by hitting lots against weapon and cause body hits at S7 and S9(so mostly aiming those S9) which is how this math crunching started in the first place!

edit: Found out somewhat blurry picture of warlord terminal and I think battlescribe has serious errors in it so above are almost certainly off. will update when I fix the values
edit2: Used the pictures from net to update values. Only warlord changed.
edit3: Other misc notes. Reaver legs become equal to head at S10. Body with warlord becomes prime target around S10-S11 with all the criticals coming into play. Gap with head decreases at S12 again though. At S12 warhound body and legs cause equal amount of damage but body has more criticals so that's body as well.

One point of damage has a pretty large effect.

tneva82, I think that the most interesting bit you can glean from that analysis is where the large jumps in efficiency are and use that information for deciding when to start targeting wounded engines with small arms. Mounting piles of bonus modifiers from injuries and positioning are what kill in this game, I've found.

#EngineKillWithDoubleAvengers

 Sherrypie wrote:
tneva82, I think that the most interesting bit you can glean from that analysis is where the large jumps in efficiency are and use that information for deciding when to start targeting wounded engines with small arms. Mounting piles of bonus modifiers from injuries and positioning are what kill in this game, I've found.

#EngineKillWithDoubleAvengers

True that. That's why I don't agree with idea I saw elsewhere that gatling blaster is such a lousy weapon. a) it's good at stripping shields b) add in flank/rear bonus or damaged and you can hurt a titan. And 6 shots makes aimed shots not unreasonable proposition. I have had titans be finished off when opponent was cunning enough to keep gatling blaster last and then aimed at hurt location...

Continuing on my math project I already learned something new. I have been waaaaaay overestimating power of knight h2h attacks vs weapons. While that works very well vs warhound with reaver titan 24 attacks from knights will result in 10 damage(20 hits, 13.33 times S7 hit, 1 of those goes to flip card upside, S7 has 1/2 chance of direct hit and 1/6 chance of devastating hit so 6 and 4 in average). Non-damaged reaver ideal target in pure damage output would be body for 16 wounds. Now mind you this is pretty bad result for reaver anyway but hitting weapons is not QUITE able to take down undamaged reaver.

Warlord same knight swarm will be looking at around 6 damage direct to body or legs, 3 hacking at weapons. Obviously sometimes taking one weapon out is worth it though. But in terms of damage output generally weapons is not as good as I had previously thought so would be more of thing to do with small groups to hinder target. Big squads, maybe with twin ccw's, are better off hitting softest target from body/legs/head(body, legs, head in that order)

BTW vs warlord S7 vs S8 has HUGE difference. Direct vs body S7 gets that 6.666 damage point, taking warlord to 2nd to last armour point(last +2 modifier slot). With S8 we go to 13 which basically vaporizes warlord. Albeit the new lancers won't likely be packing 24 attacks but that 1 blip doubles the damage output vs warlord. Those lancers are going to be have biggest effective damage boost in h2h vs warlords. Old ones rip apart smaller titans just fine but warlord was still fairly tough. Lancer in numbers can REALLY hurt warlord and not just pick up on weapons.

Gatling blaster aimed shot vs +2 body slot results in average 1 blip of damage. 2 with +3(ie hull breached).

What I’m getting from this is that my dual melee Knights should get replaced by the new taller Knights.

 Fajita Fan wrote:
What I’m getting from this is that my dual melee Knights should get replaced by the new taller Knights.

Not really. Things old knights do better than new ones:

a) Kill warhounds and reavers better per point than lancers
b) kill other knights better per point than lancers EDIT: Incorrect actually. Forgot to take into account ion shields which do work in h2h and lancers get +1 there if they have save, which against knights they do, so that tips it in favour of lancers. Interesting. Lancer is better vs smallest and biggest targets but worse vs the 2 in the middle
c) don't underestimate usefullness of those meltaguns. Automatic S8 hits is pretty useful. And missile pods at top adds up utility while maintaining 2 CCW
d) durability. You have 7 questors for 4 lancers. 5 points of damage to destroy questor. 6 to take down lancer. Thus 35 needed to take down questors, 24 to take down lancer. +1 to save roll isn't equilavent of 45% more hull points. Whole shield can also be negated and critical hits don't care about extra hull point either so ability to have more bodies makes you tougher then.
e) lancers are taller and wider. Depending on your terrain lancers could be visible where questors can hide.

The 2 share different purposes. Lancer is warlord hunter. Questors hunt smaller stuff. Though reaver isn't THAT small and point for point 2 CCW questors beat lancer in h2h.

Oh and questors perform better the less charge bonus you get.

1700ish points of Engage and Destroy, my legio Favilla crushed the opposing blasphemers.

Full Venator maniple w. a doublefist Reaver and few knights vs. two Warlords, two Hounds and both Questoris and Cerastus banners.

I got to choose the deployment and went with close quarters, trying to get quickly into melee and Inferno range.

First turn all his knights evaporated, either dissolving into the acid pools trying to rush my engines (houserule: knights ignore movement penalties, not the damage from Dangerous Terrain) or by walking into a double-Inferno Cannon shaped trap. Meanwhile my fisty Reaver gets uppity and the machine spirit fires the Warp Missile in response to being shot, stubbing a Warlord's toe. My leader Reaver engages his Warhounds at range, aided by my knights and kick some flamers offline.

Second turn my fisty Reaver makes scary noises and draws about all fire to itself, getting nearly crippled and burning in the process, but buys time for my Hounds to dance towards the flank of the enemy firebase. The front Warlord starts to lose shields.

Third turn the flaming Ruina Superborum jumps over a building and jumps down on a Warhound, piledriving it in half. This results in a plasma explosion that sends the Reaver flying backwards, falling to its doom in the acid pits. The Warlord nearby loses the rest of its shields and eats a hefty serving of lasers immediately afterwards, getting very close to critical. As his forces dwindle and my Hounds draw closer to uncounterable harrying positions, my opponent graciously forfeits the battle.

Hounds, man. Hounds are the best.

Isn't that reaver bit odd for venator? None of the carapace weapons are super hot choice for venator bonus shot. Seems you are not taking full bonus from venator without one big gun for the reaver

tneva82 wrote:
Isn't that reaver bit odd for venator? None of the carapace weapons are super hot choice for venator bonus shot. Seems you are not taking full bonus from venator without one big gun for the reaver

Two Reavers. The leader in the maniple had melta cannon, laser blaster and turbolasers, while the doublefister was an out of maniple reinforcement. It's the unpainted one down right

Only got one bonus off, but that melta is brutal. Ripped the Warlord a new one.

Oh ok no issuns then!

Can we talk about the paintjob on the yellow Warlord? To each their own but...

 Fajita Fan wrote:
Can we talk about the paintjob on the yellow Warlord? To each their own but...

Heh, it's a bit unique, yeah. Basically this guy decided to go full on meme-lord with his titans and they are full of these scribblings. He didn't originally intend to play with them, but then I kinda happened (as these games often go). Now even he is getting a bit embarrased about it

My primaris Blood Angels are a joke army called the Blood Angles but at least I’m painting them seriously.

can you run multiple maniples in your "army"?
or is just 1 maniple only and rest is reinforcments?

(couldent find any mention of it, but seeing as you can run different legios in your "army" i find it to be a bit odd they wont allow you to run 2 different maniples in your "army"

 FrozenDwarf wrote:
can you run multiple maniples in your "army"?
or is just 1 maniple only and rest is reinforcments?

(couldent find any mention of it, but seeing as you can run different legios in your "army" i find it to be a bit odd they wont allow you to run 2 different maniples in your "army"

As you say, Its not specifically stated you cannot (not that I can find at least) but I think it is intended to be 1 maniple plus supporting titans/knights.

Has anyone tried a dual Inferno Cannon Warhound?

I’m thinking it could be rather good at stripping shields, what with the auto-hit. Set it on a Warlord, and you can even, feasibly, keep in its side and rear arc?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Has anyone tried a dual Inferno Cannon Warhound?

I’m thinking it could be rather good at stripping shields, what with the auto-hit. Set it on a Warlord, and you can even, feasibly, keep in its side and rear arc?

Yup. Works very well.

Can strip shields for your Venator Reaver to shoot, but honestly it's quick and brutal enough to either circle the enemy or punch through their line and burninate things from behind. Run under the shields and Warlords will be very afraid. Engine kills confirmed. Also a superb knight deterrent.

Nice.

Reckon that might be getting a whirl once I’ve managed to get some games under my belt!

Soulless wrote:

 FrozenDwarf wrote:
can you run multiple maniples in your "army"?
or is just 1 maniple only and rest is reinforcments?

(couldent find any mention of it, but seeing as you can run different legios in your "army" i find it to be a bit odd they wont allow you to run 2 different maniples in your "army"

As you say, Its not specifically stated you cannot (not that I can find at least) but I think it is intended to be 1 maniple plus supporting titans/knights.

When rules say "battlegroup must consist of AT LEAST ONE maniple" and use term maniple in plurals lots...I would say it's legal to field more than one. After all if intent was 1 but no more it would say "battlegroup must consist one maniple...".

It is absolutely intended that you run one or more maniples. This is evident from legio rules: each maniple you have that uses extra rules (that can vary between them) gives your opponent more stratagem points. One or more maniples, usually one below 1500 points and more in 2000+

Well actually legio rules are for each element that have legio rules. Reserve reaver with legio specific rules gives opponent 2 strategem points(which discourages giving legio specific reserves too much. For maniple it's 2 CP for 3-5 titans. For reserves it's 2 per 1 or 2 in case of warhounds. Much worse ratio)

tneva82 wrote:
Well actually legio rules are for each element that have legio rules. Reserve reaver with legio specific rules gives opponent 2 strategem points(which discourages giving legio specific reserves too much. For maniple it's 2 CP for 3-5 titans. For reserves it's 2 per 1 or 2 in case of warhounds. Much worse ratio)

Yes, that to be more precise. Usually one would most likely use extra rules for a themed legio maniple, so they are often one and the same. Still supports multiple maniples.

Has anyone tried 3 Warhound squadrons? Is it worth the points?

 Fajita Fan wrote:
Has anyone tried 3 Warhound squadrons? Is it worth the points?

In what maniple? With venator you often have 3-4 warhounds anyway and that is trio of very hard to take down titans. Especially if you use the 2+ special save thing...(albeit that carries it's risks but that squadron can be super hard to take down). And of course that's lots of firepower and fairly reliable orders with +2 to command.

edit: wait a sec. only venator can do that so ignore the question.

Like what's better in a Venator, two pairs of Warhounds or one triple squadron? Is the shield bubble mechanic with 3 worth it?

I could roll this out myself but I'm curious if anyone is doing it. I also don't always do maniples in my lists given points.

 Fajita Fan wrote:
Like what's better in a Venator, two pairs of Warhounds or one triple squadron? Is the shield bubble mechanic with 3 worth it?

I could roll this out myself but I'm curious if anyone is doing it. I also don't always do maniples in my lists given points.

Personally I would go with two pairs, since you usually want to have tactical flexibility and unless your game is in a very weird situation, you have more than one relevant target anyway. With two pairs making concentrated attacks, you're not losing any potential damage from the bonus but gain in options as you can benefit from shield sharing while taking more than a fistful of space on the board. Warhounds want to flank anyway, it is easier if you force your opponent to turn and track you.

The maniple of three is easier to command, however, as a larger pack gets +2 instead of +1 when given squadron commands, but... eh, I think it would be pretty rare to give three the same order every turn.

This game is deeper than people think.

 Sherrypie wrote:

 Fajita Fan wrote:
Like what's better in a Venator, two pairs of Warhounds or one triple squadron? Is the shield bubble mechanic with 3 worth it?

I could roll this out myself but I'm curious if anyone is doing it. I also don't always do maniples in my lists given points.

Personally I would go with two pairs, since you usually want to have tactical flexibility and unless your game is in a very weird situation, you have more than one relevant target anyway. With two pairs making concentrated attacks, you're not losing any potential damage from the bonus but gain in options as you can benefit from shield sharing while taking more than a fistful of space on the board. Warhounds want to flank anyway, it is easier if you force your opponent to turn and track you.

The maniple of three is easier to command, however, as a larger pack gets +2 instead of +1 when given squadron commands, but... eh, I think it would be pretty rare to give three the same order every turn.

What you do lose though is extra survivability. Difference between 3 shielded warhounds vs 2 is quite big. Even more if you play like so that you CAN split shield drops but don't have to but can put all on one warhound.

Also the 4th warhound can be in different range bracket all together. I like twin inferno warhound but having him in squadron means the other has to get in close as well. With 3+1 the inferno gun can roam freely heading for rear while others can stay on their ideal range band.

Ok bit of a long post from me now:

I have an AT tournament coming up in a couple of weeks, have only played a couple of trial games using the Warlord+Knights from the GM box, but have since expanded my Legio into the following:

- 2x Warlords
- 1x Reaver
- 2x Warhounds
- 6x Knights

The tournament uses the following rules:
- 1250-1750pts with underdog margin at 200pts
- One maniple required
- 3 Command Points
- WYSIWIG not enforced so all weapons can be used.

Now I've come up with the following list and need some feedback on it as well as on general tactics:

Myrmidon Maniple
Warlord Titan
- Apocalypse Missile Launchers
- Belicosa
- Sunfury

Warlord Titan
- Apocalypse Missile Launchers
- Quake Cannon
- Sunfury

Reaver Titan
- Apocalypse Launcher
- Gatling Blaster
- Laser Blaster

Warhound Squadron
- Turbo Laser/Plasma
- Turbo Laser/Vulcan

Alltogether this comes to 1705pts so I have a bit of room for expansion. The idea I had in mind was to use my CP for a Void Relay and castle the Warlords around it for re-rollable Void saves, and since they won't be moving I can make full use of Split/First Fire which goes off on 2+ thanks to the Myrmidon. Reaver will support the Warhounds.

I like the idea of it but I think it may fail when going against Knights. In my trial games I saw how effective Knights can be if they get too close, and while their shooting is generally mediocre, if they get a Charge order off they can just wreck a Warlord in one go. With that in mind I'm wondering if it may be worth dropping something for some Knights, but I'm a bit clueless about it.

Any help is appreciated.

Another issue you run into is that your warlords will soon be out of targets for missiles(basically after enemy moves) and soon enough for missile guns. "I won't be moving" doesn't really work that well with corridor weapons. Doubly more so if there's decent terrain there.

Reaver with fist btw is good knight deterrent

Would the Reaver be able to catch up with the Knights though? They're pretty nippy, I can imagine them just skirting around the Reaver or getting round the flanks pretty easily.

Fair point about the Void Relay, I had forgotten that turning technically counts as moving so they can be easily outmaneuvered. Would it be viable in that case to just keep one Warlord back as a fire-support? With longer-ranged weapons such as the Quake and Belicosa it may be a good unit to finish off ones without shields?

If they are snipping around they aren't charging the warlord now would they? Every time they keep snipping around warlords is extra turn(and AT doesn't have unlimited turns) warlord can shoot at impunity.

One reaver basically creates 11" long area with 135 degree(but it's pretty hard to get straight to rear of reaver. If they come from flank you can rotate as well and from front to rear isn't easy) or so coverage where knights do not want to enter. Knights have 12" but getting everybody more than 11" and max 12" is pretty hard especially without premeasurement.(if you are really good at measuring by eye you could expose your reaver to 1 or 2 knight and tempt them to charge you. Sure you take some damage but that draws them ready for volcano cannon. That's one way I have dealt with knights. Put reaver somewhere where some but not all can charge them and another reaver or warlord lobs them with volcano cannon. If they don't bite it...Well that's why the bait reaver also has good knight busting gun like volcano cannon or melta cannon)

Idea wouldn't be so much chase them around than force him to deal with the reaver first if he wants to charge the warlord.

Bodyguard. Not roaming hunter.

So as a general idea, would one Warlord at the back and the other advancing with Reaver bodyguard be better in this case?

That's how I have been playing my warlords at least with 2 warlord lists. With 3 it's backfield+2 forward moving(one possibly more of a midrange and one that's real up close and personal. This is about only time I even consider the power claw).

You might also want to consider a banner of anti-Knight Knights to keep any of the little blighters off your back.

If you want anti knight knights lancers are best for points vs knights and warlords. Twin cc questors are better vs warhounds and reavers

What would be the best way to incorporate some Knights into my list? The only thing I can think of is dropping either a Reaver or Warlord. Dropping the Reaver may leave the Warlords a bit unprotected but dropping a Warlord looks like it may be too much a loss of firepower, unless I go for the full 6x Knights but that may be too much in terms of modelling as I only have one built at the moment.

Well 6 with twin cc's is 285 which is only bit more than warhound's will be so replacing warhound is also option. Warlord can give you almost 1=1 4 lancers and 4 questors with twin cc's.

Sure you will lose on firepower but archieve fast moving small(easy to hide) models that will make mincemeat of titans in cc. Warlord can survive frontal charge from questors but if lancers charge and warlord can't move out of range it will be mincemeat.

Q is thus do you want guns or h2h titan busters. Lot depends on your terrain. Also keep in mind even lone small fast model can be useful for scenarios.

Ok so had my first tournament today, 3 games of 1750pts with a 200 underdog margin. I ran the following list.

Myrmidon Maniple
Warlord Titan
- Apocalypse Launchers
- Belicosa Cannon
- Sunfury Plasma

Warlord Titan
- Laser Blasters
- Sunfury Plasma
- Quake Cannon

Reaver Titan
- Apocalypse Launcher
- Gatling Blaster
- Laser Blaster

2x Warhound Titans
- Vulcan Bolter
- Turbo Laser


3 games and I came dead last out of 10. This was partly due to apocalyptic bad luck (despite my Myrmidon getting orders off on 2+, not once did I have a turn with more than one order). I was pretty much tabled in all three games and only managed to take down 5x Knights, a Reaver and a Warhound throughout the whole day. But I've learned a lot from my losses.

1: Weapons - I thought to diversify my weapons a bit to avoid reactor damage with my Belicosa Cannons but one just wasn't enough.

2: Mobility - 2 Warlords are just too slow despite their toughness. My final game was against 4x Warhounds and they were just running circles around me. Funnily enough my Warhounds blew themselves up thanks to really crappy reactor rolls.

Shifting some stuff around I've come up with a different list, any ideas?


Axiom Maniple
Warlord Titan
- Belicosa Cannon
- Belicosa Cannon
- Apocalypse Launchers

Reaver Titan
- Apocalypse Launcher
- Laser Blaster
- Gatling Blaster

2x Warhound Titans
- 2x Plasma Blastguns

5x Knights
- 3x Battle Cannons
- 2x Thermal Cannons


Thoughts?

 Valkyrie wrote:


3 games and I came dead last out of 10. This was partly due to apocalyptic bad luck (despite my Myrmidon getting orders off on 2+, not once did I have a turn with more than one order). I was pretty much tabled in all three games and only managed to take down 5x Knights, a Reaver and a Warhound throughout the whole day. But I've learned a lot from my losses.

Well it's only first fire order on 2+ and thing with that is you don't always even have targets front of titan so you often need to turn. Only your 1st, 3rd and 5th first fire orders(if all start turn with target in arc) will be 100% quaranteed to be usable first fire. And that doesn't mean you will have target for combat phase...

You don't neccessarily even WANT that first fire order all the time. Bigger impact is simply having heaviest gear. Maniple is more of nice bonus over it.

1: Weapons - I thought to diversify my weapons a bit to avoid reactor damage with my Belicosa Cannons but one just wasn't enough.

Sunfury should be pretty good alternative though. Don't think that was the issue.

2: Mobility - 2 Warlords are just too slow despite their toughness. My final game was against 4x Warhounds and they were just running circles around me. Funnily enough my Warhounds blew themselves up thanks to really crappy reactor rolls.

You need to really keep eye on those reactors. I have more or less stopped pushing extra speed/turns. Which albeit makes it not so mobile compared to reaver that can push more freely.

Both warhounds have twin plasma? Seems your maniple is voewfully short in shield strippers with just 3 weapons(warlord carapace, reaver carapace, gatling blaster) for serious shield stripping. Especially now with titandeath coming up where you can expect more of three warhound squadrons(maybe 2...) or warlord+warhound or two squadrons which will simply eat up that firepower and barely notice it.

Something I noticed is that BOTH your lists are fairly low on good shield strippers. Note that the laser weapons, despite shield bane rule, aren't really dedicated shield strippers and are outperformed by apocalypse launchers for that usage. It's more of "can be used to strip shields and hurt shieldless". But too much of those are going to leave you thin on serious shield strippers. In particularly I'm not fan of warlord carapace laser blasters. 6 shots isn't that much, -1 to hit beyond 16" and except against other warlords can't shoot within 10". I'm much more fan of gatling blasters with their 12 shots(which can also dent armour a bit) and no -1 to hit at range. Albeit that's still not out so until that I would stick with apoc. Or rest of your force needs to account for that. Keep in mind if you are always shooting that at shields YOU ARE WASTING IT! You would be better off with apoc launcher. IF you take laser blasters you must use it to hurt shieldless titan. I think it's better if you have the macro gatling blaster arm weapon for example which is better shield stripper generally. Or rest of titans need to sport more shield busters.