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Hmm. Thing about inferno is that as it\s template weapon it benefits from attacking group of tightly packed targets. Which basically is currently pretty much only knights. Maybe warhound squadrons but it's not that useful against bigger knights. 3 S7 hits is nice but short range...However with knights you can often get 4-6 hits at S7 which starts to dent knight banner. As such I view inferno gun more of anti-knight weapon. However for that the vulcan doesn't really offer much as the S isn't enough to really worry knights.

As such I prefer either laser blaster(S8 hurts them and shieldbane can be used to make those shield saves much less likely) or plasma gun for 2 shots of plasma nastyness. And short range being optimal range doesn't matter that much when your secondary gun is flamer!

Vulcan fails at hurting knights and inferno lacks punch against titans after vulcan drops shields. That's my problem with the combination.

Good points. Maybe plasma/inferno if I have the points.

Inferno doesn't lack punch that badly, though. Considering it's S 7 with three autohits vs. S 8 0-4, usually 2, others, they are pretty equal against everything besides toughest parts of a Warlord. Of course the actual question is how you tend to use them on the field, go close enough and give them d3 S 7 Smashes on the heinies for good measure

S7 vs s8 is actually surprisingly big in practice. Vs reaver body allows 2/3 odds of hurting and gives shot at devastating. Vs warhounds devastjtings become decent shot and vs warlord 7 really struggles. Especially with short range reducing # of shots you will get off

tneva82 wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:
1. How important is movement in the game? I watched a report on Youtube last night and there really doesn't seem to be much in it besides "stand and shoot". Warlords only have a 4" movement, and even if you push the reactor it only goes to 6". While Reavers and Warhounds have a bit more it doesn't feel like they'll really be able to close gaps or get close before getting blown away.

Important. For starters many missions don't involve just killing. Second killing titans is HARD. 2 warlord can shoot at another and not do much to it.

And of course don't forget advance. 12" for warlord in a turn. 18" for reaver. 24" for warhound.

Also simply positioning stuff matters. It's not just moving fast but for example manipulating fire arcs. If you move so that opponent has to push reactor to keep you up you restrict his orders and force reactor levels up which can be absolutely decisive.

Many youtube reports are like 1 or 2 warlords dueling. Not much out there that I have seen with multiple titans at which point game springs to life.

Additionally, I was flicking through the rulebook and one mission in particular stood out, the Long Retreat on page 78. The Traitor player has to get his Titans within 24" of the board edge to score points, with extra if they're within 12" instead. However, if you have a Warlord, even if you play the full 6 turns pushing the reactor every time, you can't actually make it within 12". I know the Warlord isn't expecting to be nimble, but 4"/6" really doesn't seem like much.

a) advance b) that's why there's multiple titans and not just all warlords.

2. I came up with a quick 1750pt list that I think would be a good start.

Warhound Titan
- Vulcan Mega Bolter
- Vulcan Mega Bolter

Warhound Titan
- Turbo Laser
- Turbo Laser

Warhound Titan
- Plasma Blastgun
- Turbo Laser

something to keep in mind especially with #2 is that warhounds are VERY VERY VERY reactor sensitive. Few reactor slots, crew of 2. They will overheat a LOT. And overheat is BAD. At orange it's 50-50 does your shield go down(Bad news). At red it's 50-50 do you avoid worst(so suffer just hefty damage...) or either lose shields or just flat out BLOW UP.

2 turbo laser sounds cool but keep in mind you shouldn't be draining for that shieldbane all the time...Ditto for #3 shieldbane+maximum power combo. VERY RISKY.

BTW reactor handling is 100% essential in this game...

Reaver Titan
- Apocalypse Launchers
- Gatling Blaster
- Gatling Blaster

Too specific for my taste. What if he doesn't have somebody to punch armour due to reactor/positioning issues? Or puncher lacks this guys guns for those reasons? Don't count on multiple titans working together to always work.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Btw regarding double bolter and double laser warhounds. Another reason why i would split weapons 1 of each for both apart from big boost to reactor control was also touched in reaver. Ability to work independently. Imagine first vulcan was surprisingly effective and knocks shields down. Or just is like almost out shields. Second vulcan is fairly pointless. With laser if that happens s8 is nice punch. If shields up push a fire shielbane shots. This is why i like laser blastnrs. Flexible

Ah that's one thing I hadn't noticed is the orders, so you can give up your shooting for the chance to move again? Pretty handy indeed.

Good point about the double-Turbos, I thought the Draining effect was optional if you want to go for the Shieldbane effect, in that case Turbo/Plasma or Turbo/Vulcan may be better.

In general is it best to mix the weapons rather than having dedicated roles then?

tneva82 wrote:One warhound combo I like is inferno gun and plasma. That's nasty knight clearer.

Sounds interesting, do the Infernos have potential against other Titans as well?

Draining for Shieldbane is optional but guns with fewer shots have a hard time overwhelming a 3+ shield save without it.

 Valkyrie wrote:
Ah that's one thing I hadn't noticed is the orders, so you can give up your shooting for the chance to move again? Pretty handy indeed.

Yep. Here's story of how I won(one of my only 2 wins so far) one game. Mission for me was vital cargo. As this involves taking one titan off the enemy board edge usually this would be time for reaver or warhound right? Surely not the slow&lumbering warlord. Mind you titan carrying the cargo is not public info.

However...I hit an idea. Turn 1: One of my 2 warlords advanced and pushed reactors both time. 12" forward. Reaver on other side of board wasn't advancing(though was pushing) and generally shooting was spent clearing path from warlord. Opponent was bit of "hmm".

Turn 2: Repeat. Now the warlord was 24" from my deployment zone and only 18" from table edge. Opponent got REAL worried and started to try to stop that mad rushing warlord.

Turn 3: Once more unto the breach. With fire being poured I even used overload void shields(2+ save but if you fail bye bye void shields for game and can't push reactor to get reroll 1's) to keep the shields up at one point. I'm now 36" ahead(more or less). Reaver also made for dash it now for good.

Opponent had to figure which titan is the real one(and mind you on T4 if he ignored warlord "no way it is") it would move 4*12=48" and since deployment zones are 6" more than enough to get into the edge...So he CANNOT let it go unless he knows FOR SURE I'm just bluffing as unless I fail command test(which btw I could once per game reroll and was passing on 2+ anyway) I'm out there. Not that preventing warlord is toughest things from doing that but that opens up space for other titans. It also screwed HIS mission as well.

Mad rush. Also in another game I ended up in enemy DZ with less of a mad rush as well.

Good point about the double-Turbos, I thought the Draining effect was optional if you want to go for the Shieldbane effect, in that case Turbo/Plasma or Turbo/Vulcan may be better.

It IS optional. If you don't want shieldbane no need but thing is why not keep option? If they are mixed you have more drainage room and double the crew to fix. Twin vulcan has much less heat issues so would have room to spare. Without shieldbane 2 shots is much less impressive vs shields. And of course as I mentioned what if 1st vulcan already drops shields? Second is still firing but suddenly without role. With turbo available you can punch armour. If shields still up shieldbane and shoot and then figure with other warhound what to do.

In general is it best to mix the weapons rather than having dedicated roles then?

Personal taste but I don't like ultra specialization. Too many ways to disable one titan from combat. Leg criticals will play havoc(turning 45 degree left or right randomly plays havoc), reactor, having to use emergency repairs to restore shields and thus move or shoot(especially tricky with leg critical! If you just got turned away from enemy and need emergency repair it's either turn and don't shoot or stand still and have nobody in sight!).

Basically if your plan counts on having 2 ultra specialists working in tandem what happens if one gets knocked out? Reaver with twin gatling and reaver with twin volcano cannon. Gatlings will drop shield but won't be punching armour, volcanos will never get through shields. If one gets out of work the other is fairly useless as well.

I try to have about same range band(short/medium/long) but then have at least something that can work for other. This is why I'm fan of laser blasters etc. They can do job of both ok. Shields up? Shieldbane. Shields down? S8 has decent punch with multiple shots.

Sounds interesting, do the Infernos have potential against other Titans as well?

Potential yes but S7 is surprisingly big weakness vs S8. Also you don't benefit from the template as much except vs warhound squadrons so you are looking at 3 hits at super short range. Also no aimed shots to finish off near dead titans which I find notable disadvantage. It's not useless vs titans but it's definitely more of a knight buster. 4-6 hits that need to roll 2+ to cause damage is much better than 3 hits needing to roll 4+(plus of course different odds of devastating hits etc) and lack of aimed shots is irrelevant as no aimed shots vs knights anyway

Actually you can aim versus knights, in which case you get to pick which knight dies instead of their controller. Rarely useful, but against a large banner you might want to punch their leader out to lock them in Shaken hell, good luck rolling that 6+ Command reliably.

 Sherrypie wrote:
Actually you can aim versus knights, in which case you get to pick which knight dies instead of their controller. Rarely useful, but against a large banner you might want to punch their leader out to lock them in Shaken hell, good luck rolling that 6+ Command reliably.

Huh...Didn't know that. Well that's slight disadvantage for inferno gun vs knights but I take that.

Albeit often they die to volcano cannons or quake cannons so no aimed shots anyway

Tried crazy list with twin axiom and all that could have had fist. Faced minimum axiom and venator. I got either engage&destroy or vital cargo. Neither is ideal but took vital cargo putting to one reaver.


Turn 1 i did advance on all. Tried to use warhounds to make opponent think one carrles. Much to my surprise warhounds on left headed center leaving reaver with dual gatling vs warhound and cargo reaver. Firepower started bad for him but eventually rolld 4 fails to non-cargo reaver. Ouch. Turn 2 i should probably have emergency repaired but advance on all again.

Reaver without shields was destroyed but luckily collased safe direction.

Turn 3 i screwed up. Warlord charged his but blind barrage. Hit but had attacked body so nothing big. But mistake was advancing with reaver past his. Fist reaver not clubbing reaver? Told which was real deal. Reaver backed and turned toward but real problem was warlora that backed and did 90 turn. Both bellicosa hit with criticalx2 to legs. Made advance inch too short and gatling blasted reaver up anywav.

Final insult my warlord was immobilised with triple criticals.i had immobilised warlord(1 direct to legs enough) and 1 fairly intact warlord. He was almost unhurt...

All fists just doesn#t work that well. Even had warlords been 3 reavers don't think that would have changed. No pressure with reactors etc. Hold the line and retrieval would have been better but fists for 1 reaver and warlord would have been better

I'm jealous, I printed those buildings and laminated them to hold up but they bow out and don't sit like a square.

On the subject of maniples can anyone talk about the Venator maniple? How often are you really getting the effect to proc? Now that I've got 4 Warhounds I can do something like:

2000pts:
Group 1
Reaver
Melta/Volcano/Missiles
Warhound
Turbolaser/Megabolter
Warhound
Turbolaser/Megabolter

Group 2
Reaver
Melta/Volcano/Missiles
Warhound
Turbolaser/Megabolter
Warhound
Turbolaser/Megabolter

Warlord
Volcano/Gatling
Laserblasters

So that's two mini Venators with the potential for the Reavers to hit at long range or short range on whichever target gets its shields stripped by its pair of Warhounds. The thing is can I reliably expect a pair of Warhounds to finish off the shields for a Reaver or should I recombine everything so it's 4 Warhounds paired with a single Reaver?

I haven\t had best of luck with it but partially due to not utilizing to best of effect. For example reacting to enemy knights and splitting pair of warhounds elsewhere. So far I have used it twice and today I got hit by it but not to best effects. Opponent is strict WYSIWYG so until weapon sprues comes he's on limited weapons so was limited to laser blaster. Meanwhile when I have used it's been with volcano cannon which unsurprisingly is MUCH more nasty with it and indeed both times enemy titan was hit HARD. So I have had it twice out of 3 games and he got it in 1/1.

Not sold on just 2 warhounds at least in one turn. Voids to full helps and for example if opponent is feeling gambling and suffers few hits he can overload so that 4+ with one failed save suddenly turns into 2+...That for example helped my warhound today when I used it against 3 hits precisely to avoid getting blasted by reaver with collapsing shields!

Only a pair of Warhounds for each Reaver was my concern. Dropping the Warlord means more Warhounds but that means dropping a serious gun platform. I’d rather just reorganize that list so it’s one Venator with 4 Warhounds and a Reaver with the other titans supporting.

Then again that warlord packs quite a punch as well. Alternatively use the warhounds from other warhound to help around. Expecting both to get it might be optimistic but that doesn\t mean 2 venator's can't work on together. 3 warhounds could knock shields down and one can then soft for next round etc and simply you can start with the one not in ideal target based on positions etc. Also one reaver could easily end up unable to operate due to reactors/damage as I mentioned previously in this thread so having 2 reavers so you can have 1 reaver that can get free shots still even if one isn't able to do is handy.

And it's not like shield must be brought down ONLY by said venator's warhound. "wrong" warhound can soften up first and then switch to proper ones. Okay occasionally you will knock down shields completely resulting in no bonus but that's not THAT often.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Btw back to subject of twin turbo. Warhounds are super vulnerable to reactor. Mere 2 push in average and you are in orange! 1/6 times first push results that. Then you are 50-50 does your shields collapse. 1/4 times you don't even reduce any heats. In short reactor is very, very tricky to maintain. That's why 2 weapons which have draining as part doesn't appeal to me.

Today one warhound was basically self destructing due to orange reactor...

Well, draining on turbo is optional. I quite like to have a long range Warhound with 4 S 8 shots lurking around, able to quickly relocate to someone's side arc or just keep on pummeling from afar in opportunistic fashion. Run close with bolters and flamers roaring, use Coordinated Attacks to zap after shields are down.

I wish I got to play more games...

Btw something to consider. Opponent wasn't sold on it but i think it can be valid to charge yourself even without cc if you are about to be charged by one but can't escape by backing and turn and leave would leave in bad position. Advantages would be less attacks for him and more which might allow to knock that fist off! Temptation is first fire but even if shieldless not quaranteed to stop.

tneva82 wrote:
Btw something to consider. Opponent wasn't sold on it but i think it can be valid to charge yourself even without cc if you are about to be charged by one but can't escape by backing and turn and leave would leave in bad position. Advantages would be less attacks for him and more which might allow to knock that fist off! Temptation is first fire but even if shieldless not quaranteed to stop.

Entirely plausible, d3+[0,3] Smash attacks can hurt especially with the larger titans. Of course the WS is what it is without bonuses, but it is better than taking the hit yourself.

Yes it's not quaranteed but if you snap the fist off you got big survival boost. If enemy isn't near dead first fire is unlikely stop unless you like hit legs with bellicosa. Not something to do automatically(good) but one more tool to consider. Especially if you don't have blind barrage to stymifie the charge

An interesting game today, legio Favilla clashed with Astorum.

He had Engage and Destroy, I got Vital Cargo. He had a Myrmidon maniple with two Warlords and Reavers, while I still had none (Reavers on the painting table), but we generously decided that my Iron-Clad Tyrant would still work on other engines than my Seniores, too. After pondering for a bit, I almost gave the package to my Princeps Seniores atop Iudex Ultionis on right flank, but eventually decided to go via refused flank on the left side and packed it in Echo Dolorum, a turbolaser Warhound. Pretty clear choice to put it on a Warhound, though I did apply feint pressure on the right flank by always advancing with Iudex as he blasted away.

Off to a hectic start we went: my right Knights vaporizing under volcano cannon fire after their cover got blasted to bits and his Reavers, under heavy fire, both fried their VSGs via Voids to Full! by turn three. My Warhounds legged it behind the buildings as a pair, sharing their shields as they went and holding pretty well under some indirect shrapnel. Until the one with the package got Sabotaged mid-Full Stride and found a few targeting beads turning to its direction. Uh-oh. Edax Rerum, its packmate, immediately used its Stride to bodily shield the important, and now unshielded, one from fire by granting it pretty good cover. That worked well enough for a while and as they dodged massive damage, I covered Echo with smoke and the pair advanced, whereupon Edax Rerum got blasted apart by the Reaver-Warlord combo, standing there dead and silent. Well, until we remembered that being on orange reactor actually adds some to the roll, thereby making it a tumble and as luck would have it, he first stumbled towards the low wall in front of him and then bounced back, falling on top of Echo and injuring its legs. Great job guys, great job.

At this juncture, Echo Dolorum had managed to get one shield back and was able to dodge the worst of the First Fired plasma fusillade raining on it as I kicked the gears into Full Stride once more. Seeing the package carrier rush past the firing sector of the Warlord, a banner of suicidal knights led by Ferro Ignique surged to harry the God-Machine and buy time for Echo. On the right flank, Iudex Ultionis crashed through a building and smote a shieldless Reaver metres away from its face with all the guns, sending it backwards, where it crashed on top of a large building and tore it down with it in its slumping death throes. On the other hand, the enemy leader blasted his shields away and prepared to unleash a good ol' fashioned double tapped volcano hell on him, possibly securing too many VP's for me to ever contend with. Repair, repair, shouted the princeps as he hammered the buttons of his communicator!

The boosted Full Stride mobility of a Warhound is a thing to behold. Flaming, reactor screaming, not one shot fired through the game, Echo Dolorum dashed away from all its opponents and out of sights slipped though the perimeter to secure the cargo. Behind him the knights of banner Ignique cheered and stood their ground under the Warlord's frustrated return fire, but it was already over. Iudex Ultionis flared to life and three levels of voids sprung to life just in time to prevent the enemy leader's kill, allowing the forces to disengage.

20-15 victory, I killed a Reaver and injured another to death's door, while he managed to fell one brave Warhound and a knight banner. Titans are tough and boy does Dangerous Terrain play havoc on you, especially as we also apply the damage part to Knights as well (though a bit of a house rule, it just feels better that way. If say, an acid lake, is strong enough to melt a titan, it bloody well will dissolve a knight. This is also intuitively supported by the rulebook saying that Dangerous Terrain damage goes through void AND ion shields. Why say that, if the knights flat out ignored it? We just say it doesn't slow them down, as they are Agile.). Warhounds really can't go dashing through it or they'll just lose their legs. Overall I'm fairly happy with the doggos, they feel very satisfying to use when they have a purpose and punishingly squishy if you make the mistake of sending them on the line.

Yeah my Warhounds died quickly when I left them unsupported. That looked fun, even more so with painted titans!

 Fajita Fan wrote:
Yeah my Warhounds died quickly when I left them unsupported. That looked fun, even more so with painted titans!

Warhounds are fairly vulnerable. Issue is not just low shield values but more so the reactor. They can push ONCE safely. After that you are looking at going to orange and 50-50 losing shields and "just" suffering S9 hits to body...

tneva82 wrote:

 Fajita Fan wrote:
Yeah my Warhounds died quickly when I left them unsupported. That looked fun, even more so with painted titans!

Warhounds are fairly vulnerable. Issue is not just low shield values but more so the reactor. They can push ONCE safely. After that you are looking at going to orange and 50-50 losing shields and "just" suffering S9 hits to body...

And even that one is questionable, as you can roll two. The shields, on the other hand, are fairly durable until they are focused on. Merged 3+ saves can take incidental shots for a moment well enough, but reactor heat... That's going to do a number on you.

 Sherrypie wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Fajita Fan wrote:
Yeah my Warhounds died quickly when I left them unsupported. That looked fun, even more so with painted titans!

Warhounds are fairly vulnerable. Issue is not just low shield values but more so the reactor. They can push ONCE safely. After that you are looking at going to orange and 50-50 losing shields and "just" suffering S9 hits to body...

And even that one is questionable, as you can roll two. The shields, on the other hand, are fairly durable until they are focused on. Merged 3+ saves can take incidental shots for a moment well enough, but reactor heat... That's going to do a number on you.

Yep. I def have to rein my urge to push for speed etc and just go with standard movement where not crucial but funnily enough with this reavers tends to be not that much slower after all. And even warlords can keep up fairly well with 6" move.

Reactor levels are nasty. And warhounds have just 2 repair crew to boot...

Regarding heat, there's an interesting situation there with plasma weaponry. A buddy of mine originally felt it was stupid that a Warhound's plasma blastgun could do as much damage as the Warlord's Sunfury, but I thought (and now still do having experienced it) they serve somewhat different needs and Sunfury still edges out as the more potent weapon. Reason here being that the Warhound is going to pay for Maximal Fire eventually, as even singular heats can tip it over catastrophically and it's less accurate over 8", whereas Sunfury doesn't really bother the Warlord that much unless it is doing a little boost dance to maneuver at the same time and can aim. Aiming, I feel, is the critical difference there, as Titans tend to be pretty durable against random shots (lots of systems and redundancy to take the hits before dying), whereas S 10 hits really hurt already damaged parts with injury plusses.

Theoretically both can dish out 4 S 10 hits, in practice I see Warhounds taking S 8 potshots at opportunistic targets to hurt them, while Warlords pepper fresh targets with S 10 holes and execute wounded ones when they get the drop.

Also heat related, just noticed Reavers, being fluffwise older and better tech, only seem to have one orange slot on their reactors. Neat.

 Sherrypie wrote:
Regarding heat, there's an interesting situation there with plasma weaponry. A buddy of mine originally felt it was stupid that a Warhound's plasma blastgun could do as much damage as the Warlord's Sunfury, but I thought (and now still do having experienced it) they serve somewhat different needs and Sunfury still edges out as the more potent weapon. Reason here being that the Warhound is going to pay for Maximal Fire eventually, as even singular heats can tip it over catastrophically and it's less accurate over 8", whereas Sunfury doesn't really bother the Warlord that much unless it is doing a little boost dance to maneuver at the same time and can aim. Aiming, I feel, is the critical difference there, as Titans tend to be pretty durable against random shots (lots of systems and redundancy to take the hits before dying), whereas S 10 hits really hurt already damaged parts with injury plusses.

Theoretically both can dish out 4 S 10 hits, in practice I see Warhounds taking S 8 potshots at opportunistic targets to hurt them, while Warlords pepper fresh targets with S 10 holes and execute wounded ones when they get the drop.

Also heat related, just noticed Reavers, being fluffwise older and better tech, only seem to have one orange slot on their reactors. Neat.

I wouldn't say they are equally much damage really. -1 to hit from over 8" REALLY hurts, no aim is biggie(4 shots is enough you can realistically aim vs near crippled spot) and as you said warhound suffers more from overheat. Albeit ability to hit even when you miss is nice. But in general agreed.

And for last one yeah despite having less reactor spots takes as much heat slips to get to orange as warlord. Small things like these are surprisingly easy to miss with titans. Might not sound that big but as I have learned many many times going into orange is bad bad news. It's telling bunch of S9 hits to your body is often PREFERABLE result in the overheat table...

tneva82 wrote:


I wouldn't say they are equally much damage really. -1 to hit from over 8" REALLY hurts, no aim is biggie(4 shots is enough you can realistically aim vs near crippled spot) and as you said warhound suffers more from overheat. Albeit ability to hit even when you miss is nice. But in general agreed.

Do note, that we're talking about potential damage here. Both weapons are factually capable of putting out four S 10 hits, even if Sunfury realistically is going to be doing that more often and more accurately where you actually want it.

I see the sunfury as final slot for a warlord.
Missiles, Volcano cannon and a sunfury gives you a lot of versatility.

If shields are down > Volcano > Maximal plasma > missiles
If shields are up > missiles > check shields, if up > sunfury, if down > volcano cannon. Then follow up with the other to finish the job.

DaemonJellybaby wrote:
I see the sunfury as final slot for a warlord.
Missiles, Volcano cannon and a sunfury gives you a lot of versatility.

If shields are down > Volcano > Maximal plasma > missiles
If shields are up > missiles > check shields, if up > sunfury, if down > volcano cannon. Then follow up with the other to finish the job.

That's actually very good order. Plasma can be used to aim near dead spot and max damage bonus even missile can kill off warlord(lost one like that) with aimed shots.

Only issue with combo is range conflict. 24" guns i often i want to advance t1 as nothing in range anyway. Here less good idea

tneva82 wrote:

DaemonJellybaby wrote:
I see the sunfury as final slot for a warlord.
Missiles, Volcano cannon and a sunfury gives you a lot of versatility.

If shields are down > Volcano > Maximal plasma > missiles
If shields are up > missiles > check shields, if up > sunfury, if down > volcano cannon. Then follow up with the other to finish the job.

That's actually very good order. Plasma can be used to aim near dead spot and max damage bonus even missile can kill off warlord(lost one like that) with aimed shots.

Only issue with combo is range conflict. 24" guns i often i want to advance t1 as nothing in range anyway. Here less good idea

Eh, it's not really in conflict if you deploy it well. Not firing one gun turn one isn't that bad if you can fire the other without pause and wait for the proper opportunity to punish people with the plasma gun.