In addition, Stormcast is getting reformatted according to their article on Warhammer Community
Quote for those at work:
If you’ve been missing your regular dose of Warhammer podcast goodness, we have excellent news – we’re back with not one, but TWO podcasts from next week! We talked to our expert host Wade Pryce to find out what you can expect:
Wade: We are launching a new Warhammer 40,000 podcast called VoxCast on December 10th, and StormCast, our podcast all about Warhammer Age of Sigmar, will be returning in a newly reforged format the following Monday. They’ll then alternate each week, so you’ll have a new podcast to listen to every single Monday.
Each episode will be about an hour long and will feature in-depth discussions with the people responsible for the worlds of Warhammer about the things that interest them.
The guest list will include Studio background writers, rules writers, miniatures designers, army painters and ‘Eavy Metal painters, artists and authors. We’ll be talking about the sorts of things from Warhammer Age of Sigmar and Warhammer 40,000 that interest and excite them, offering you insights into everything from how codexes are written to why Phil Kelly likes Ogors so much.
Working in the Design Studio for 12 years provided many opportunities for me to have lots of interesting conversations with lots of these people – and I’ll be having many more on the podcast. The only difference is, this time, you’ll get to hear them!
Kinda looking forward to it myself but I reckon Tabletop Tactics won't enjoy the name of their podcast being taken
Personally will be skipping this. Corporate backed stuff like this is almost always insufferably cringy and while, not dishonest...dripping with bias. Good for them though in continuing to try to spread good will and address their customers.
"Asking them the sort of questions that you'd like to hear the answers to"
- Comments are disabled for this video.
Now I know youtube comments are horrible and having them off is good, but this really did make me laugh. I get the feeling that they won't really be the questions people want asked...
First thing I thought was, couldn't they have picked a name that doesn't conflict with one used for some time now by one of the bigger content creators in the community?
Kinda looking forward to it myself but I reckon Tabletop Tactics won't enjoy the name of their podcast being taken
-TH
To be fair, when you google search Warhammer 40k Podcasts, Tabletop Tactics' show is no where to be seen. However, a simgple Google search for "Voxcast" and Vox Cast" both come up with Tabletop's show. Also, apparently the name is used by a Physical Education podcast
I was kinda wondering why they'd name their podcast the same as an existing one that seems to work somewhat closely with GW and is very supportive of what GW does.
Anyway, get a better camera. The video quality is trash.
Jes Goodwin is on episode one so I'm quite excited to hear what he has to say.
They need to use microphone stands that don't transmit sound from hands knocking on the table.
Other than that, it was fascinating. Watched and enjoyed the whole thing. A lot of good insight into the design history covering Adeptus Mechanicus, Drukhari, Imperial Knights, Space Marines and the philosophy that informs and shapes their appearance. The 46mins 15 second mark onwards will be of great interest to folks wanting to design their own Space Marine Chapter. It's almost as if Jes read my mind with the suggestions.
So having listened to it back, I have to say I'm pleasantly surprised by the content, nothing pushy like chatting about the new releases, just Jes chatting about his thought processes. I think they've picked a really good first guest and it'll be hard to follow.
If they could get the sound and video sorted they'd be setting themselves up well for the future. Felt like an ASMR video at times!
Now I am usually not one to jump to conclusions, preferring to keep an open mind. But the way Jes referred to the Primaris as "the marine redesign" at 1:17 definitely made stop and think. It just seemed to be a bit of an odd way to refer to it, more like a replacement range of models than an additional set of units. I know that it is a popular opinion that standard marines are done, but just hearing it referred to in that way I found worthy of note.
Keep in mind, when Jes does artwork for models it's sometimes from 5-10-15 years prior. I know people picked out some Primaris elements from some of his artwork from the 90's etc. So it's entirely possible that the original Primaris designs were indeed a re-envisioning of the current marines, or were initially intended to simply be the new kits, etc.
The process from random sketch to actual unit in game is really lengthy. Remember it's entirely possible we could have had Primaris designed kits at normal marine scale and the story could have gone in a different direction, etc.
Oh I know that. It is just referring to them as a redesign made me think about the metal to plastic redesign. From a purely model perspective, Primaris could have just been a marine redesign. It is the fluff and rules where they have become something new. We already know that the rules re derived from the models, not the other way round.
Elbows wrote: Keep in mind, when Jes does artwork for models it's sometimes from 5-10-15 years prior. I know people picked out some Primaris elements from some of his artwork from the 90's etc. So it's entirely possible that the original Primaris designs were indeed a re-envisioning of the current marines, or were initially intended to simply be the new kits, etc.
The process from random sketch to actual unit in game is really lengthy. Remember it's entirely possible we could have had Primaris designed kits at normal marine scale and the story could have gone in a different direction, etc.
This is the benefit of having a veteran artist in the team. Anything that they sketch, be it today or twenty years ago, can inspire a new line of miniatures. I'm sure he (and the other artists on the team) have got a library of sketchbooks by now that are all pretty much GW property to pour through whenever they need inspiration or want to make something different.
Trickstick wrote: The skulls are the face of The Emperor. That blew my mind...
John Blanche said the same thing a couple of years ago. Yes, it does rationalise the whole Imperium when you see it as a galaxy spanning Death Cult which basically worships a dead superhero as a god.
Only about halfway through, but so far, I think it is pretty amazing. I hope they can keep up the quality going forward. Their previous Stormcast episodes were a bit uneven.
Formosa wrote: hmmm, has anyone watched it yet? I imagine they will schill hard for GW, being backed by GW at any rate
It's a podcast by GW but apart from the very end where they talk about Primaris and how customizable they are, it was just Jes talking about the design process and the different things he done. Worth a listen if you get the time!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Thing I enjoyed most is it’s exactly the sort of chat you get to have with Jes at conventions. Or indeed, outside Warhammer World in the staff smoking area when you’re having a crafty tab....
Formosa wrote: hmmm, has anyone watched it yet? I imagine they will schill hard for GW, being backed by GW at any rate
It’s Jes Goodwin talking about how he goes about designing miniatures. It’s pretty fascinating stuff, even if your not interesting in GW’s settings or products, just hear a designer talk in such detail about their job.
Trickstick wrote: Now I am usually not one to jump to conclusions, preferring to keep an open mind. But the way Jes referred to the Primaris as "the marine redesign" at 1:17 definitely made stop and think. It just seemed to be a bit of an odd way to refer to it, more like a replacement range of models than an additional set of units. I know that it is a popular opinion that standard marines are done, but just hearing it referred to in that way I found worthy of note.
I clocked that too. Really unsure if it was a genuine ‘new info’ thing, or just words. If that makes sense?
Interested to see how the Primaris develop going forwards.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: I clocked that too. Really unsure if it was a genuine ‘new info’ thing, or just words. If that makes sense?
I just think that it gives perspective on how the design studio approached the Primaris project. The created an updated line of space marines, with the lore and rule changes being developed later.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Also, can an obvious GW employee in a GW podcast on a GW site actually be a shill? Or just an employee talking about their job and that?
It's less about being a 'shill' and more about the fact that a podcast as this will never be honest.
It can have interesting bits like Jes Goodwin or whoever, but it's never going to criticise anything. It's always going to be 100% positive all the time. It's never going to say if a unit doesn't work in the rules, or needs changing, or that the rules are ambiguous, or that Stompas are are massively overpriced, and so on. It's never going to comment on a miniature in anything other than gushing hyperbolic enthusiasm. The presenter is never going to say "Fish Elves look dumb!" or "I wish there were more variety in Primaris helmets".
It will only ever be positive and, well, look at the pic in my sig. That's what it'll be.
H.B.M.C. wrote: The presenter is never going to say "Fish Elves look dumb!" or "I wish there were more variety in Primaris helmets".
I don't know about "Fish Elves", but variety in Primaris helmets is up to the person assembling the model. It's even covered in the podcast. Want to use a Corvus Helm on your Primaris? Do it. Treat it as a chapter relic armour piece. Likewise with Mark 6 shoulder pads.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Also, can an obvious GW employee in a GW podcast on a GW site actually be a shill? Or just an employee talking about their job and that?
It's less about being a 'shill' and more about the fact that a podcast as this will never be honest.
It can have interesting bits like Jes Goodwin or whoever, but it's never going to criticise anything. It's always going to be 100% positive all the time. It's never going to say if a unit doesn't work in the rules, or needs changing, or that the rules are ambiguous, or that Stompas are are massively overpriced, and so on. It's never going to comment on a miniature in anything other than gushing hyperbolic enthusiasm. The presenter is never going to say "Fish Elves look dumb!" or "I wish there were more variety in Primaris helmets".
It will only ever be positive and, well, look at the pic in my sig. That's what it'll be.
Being positive even about things that are not great isn't necessarily dishonest, there are plenty of folk who can ignore anything negative about things they're passionate about, they just don't see the problems
but you're right in that this sort of show isn't going to be critical about 40K, no more than a football manager will say the team I've got are a bunch of overpaid incompetent, racist, sexist idiots and i'm going to fire all of them.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Also, can an obvious GW employee in a GW podcast on a GW site actually be a shill? Or just an employee talking about their job and that?
It's less about being a 'shill' and more about the fact that a podcast as this will never be honest.
It can have interesting bits like Jes Goodwin or whoever, but it's never going to criticise anything. It's always going to be 100% positive all the time. It's never going to say if a unit doesn't work in the rules, or needs changing, or that the rules are ambiguous, or that Stompas are are massively overpriced, and so on. It's never going to comment on a miniature in anything other than gushing hyperbolic enthusiasm. The presenter is never going to say "Fish Elves look dumb!" or "I wish there were more variety in Primaris helmets".
It will only ever be positive and, well, look at the pic in my sig. That's what it'll be.
I find it kind of refreshing that we get a positive spin. Yes, it's their job. Yes, they won't criticize their own product. But y'know what? The internet is full of content (ie, this forum) that does exactly that, and many youtubers that do exactly that. It's nice that GW, as corporate as they're doing it, are trying to inject some positivity into what, for decades, has been a pretty toxic community.
drbored wrote: I find it kind of refreshing that we get a positive spin. Yes, it's their job. Yes, they won't criticize their own product. But y'know what? The internet is full of content (ie, this forum) that does exactly that, and many youtubers that do exactly that. It's nice that GW, as corporate as they're doing it, are trying to inject some positivity into what, for decades, has been a pretty toxic community.
Then it's just advertising dressed up as something else.
I see no point to the YouTube equivalent of a late night shopping advert that is masquerading as something informative.
And having a positive spin isn't the problem. You can be positive about things whilst still acknowledging issues that need fixing. I doubt this will ever say talk about rules not working or needing revision. I doubt that the views of the presenters will ever be anything less than 100% in love with whatever product they're talking about. You don't have to be a negative Nancy, or a hard-boiled cynic like me, to present the negatives in something. You can look at the issue and then optimistically brainstorm solutions.
But I can't see that ever happening on this, as they'd have to acknowledge problems in the first place.
CodeKantorBlue wrote: I don't know about "Fish Elves", but variety in Primaris helmets is up to the person assembling the model. It's even covered in the podcast. Want to use a Corvus Helm on your Primaris? Do it. Treat it as a chapter relic armour piece. Likewise with Mark 6 shoulder pads.
If you want a more critical take on gw's stuff, there are plenty of other podcasts that provide it.
I come to an official podcast to hear about the "why" and the "how".
GW podcasts/ livestreams have a decent amount of how but not nearly enough why. They also have way too much "what".
If someone has gone to the trouble of downloading the podcasts, they already know what gw's products are.
Trickstick wrote: Now I am usually not one to jump to conclusions, preferring to keep an open mind. But the way Jes referred to the Primaris as "the marine redesign" at 1:17 definitely made stop and think. It just seemed to be a bit of an odd way to refer to it, more like a replacement range of models than an additional set of units. I know that it is a popular opinion that standard marines are done, but just hearing it referred to in that way I found worthy of note.
I clocked that too. Really unsure if it was a genuine ‘new info’ thing, or just words. If that makes sense?
Interested to see how the Primaris develop going forwards.
I don't know actually. If you listen to how he talks about the Primaris in the last wee section there(after the "they're totes still kitbashable, I swapped a head on one just the other day!" spiel ), it all sounds very much like the(original?) concept was very much more a case of the existing Marines being "upgraded", mentioning how a Primaris Marine might initially wear his new MKX but after a while he'd want his favourite helmet and relic shoulderpad back and so on. We're starting to get a little bit of that aspect now with Calgar, but their initial introduction seems - assuming I'm reading what he's saying and his tone right - like it became a lot more abrupt and...dislocated? As if a bigwig somewhere along the line got nervous about giving players the idea they were replacing Marines and insisted they push the writing more towards them being a new and extra thing.
And now I'm sad because I'm imagining a universe where they just brought in a new range of Marines with the good old fashioned "Oh those? Oh yeah we found an STC down the back of the sofa, totally forgot we had that." thing instead of dumping Cawl and Primarchs and giant catastro-rifts all over the place to try and bodge together a scenario where the Primaris were both new and separate, but also everywhere in every chapter.
Having followed 40k since RT (played rt-5th, now returned to at least buying models since the post-Kirby changes), I found this first episode engaging and interesting. Very cool to hear about Jes's process.
I felt like the discussion was fairly self aware and didn't feel like propaganda. For those hoping for a critical analysis this is obviously not going to be the place for it. I think there is plenty of room between sales pitch and critical analysis for GW to create some compelling content that offers some insight into their process.
Realistically I expect these will vary in quality and how much they are content vs advert. Off to a great start for sure though!
drbored wrote: I find it kind of refreshing that we get a positive spin. Yes, it's their job. Yes, they won't criticize their own product. But y'know what? The internet is full of content (ie, this forum) that does exactly that, and many youtubers that do exactly that. It's nice that GW, as corporate as they're doing it, are trying to inject some positivity into what, for decades, has been a pretty toxic community.
Then it's just advertising dressed up as something else.
I see no point to the YouTube equivalent of a late night shopping advert that is masquerading as something informative.
And having a positive spin isn't the problem. You can be positive about things whilst still acknowledging issues that need fixing. I doubt this will ever say talk about rules not working or needing revision. I doubt that the views of the presenters will ever be anything less than 100% in love with whatever product they're talking about. You don't have to be a negative Nancy, or a hard-boiled cynic like me, to present the negatives in something. You can look at the issue and then optimistically brainstorm solutions.
But I can't see that ever happening on this, as they'd have to acknowledge problems in the first place.
I get what you're saying, and if the Warhammer Community site and videos and podcasts were the only place someone was getting their information, then maybe that might not be for the best in the long-run because you don't really end up with a serious dialogue on how to improve facets of the games/company.
But, I think many hobbyists get their information from plenty of sources (facebook groups, hobby forums, or just chatting with their local friends), and having the company itself put out informative material is nice, especially when it's design/hobby related like this podcast with Jes. It was interesting to get his insight, as rose-tinted as it might be. You take this, as you should any news from the mouth of any company, with a grain of salt.
My hope is that as they continue, more of that positivity will leak into other places, like these forums, and people won't make such incredible knee-jerk world-is-ending reactions to every little thing that comes out of this company. The more we can discuss things like adults, the better.
drbored wrote: I get what you're saying, and if the Warhammer Community site and videos and podcasts were the only place someone was getting their information, then maybe that might not be for the best in the long-run because you don't really end up with a serious dialogue on how to improve facets of the games/company.
But, I think many hobbyists get their information from plenty of sources (facebook groups, hobby forums, or just chatting with their local friends), and having the company itself put out informative material is nice, especially when it's design/hobby related like this podcast with Jes. It was interesting to get his insight, as rose-tinted as it might be. You take this, as you should any news from the mouth of any company, with a grain of salt.
My hope is that as they continue, more of that positivity will leak into other places, like these forums, and people won't make such incredible knee-jerk world-is-ending reactions to every little thing that comes out of this company. The more we can discuss things like adults, the better.
Yeah, no, that's fair enough. Multiple sources and all that.
I guess my real issue with this is the main issue I have with pretty much everything GW does (except their prices): They never go far enough for my tastes. They always seem to be holding back and wasting the potential they have. I always see them as a company that could be doing better and bolder things. It's always one big step forward, then a diagonal step to the side, then five little steps back as if what they saw during the step forward frightened them.
drbored wrote: I find it kind of refreshing that we get a positive spin. Yes, it's their job. Yes, they won't criticize their own product. But y'know what? The internet is full of content (ie, this forum) that does exactly that, and many youtubers that do exactly that. It's nice that GW, as corporate as they're doing it, are trying to inject some positivity into what, for decades, has been a pretty toxic community.
Then it's just advertising dressed up as something else.
I see no point to the YouTube equivalent of a late night shopping advert that is masquerading as something informative.
And having a positive spin isn't the problem. You can be positive about things whilst still acknowledging issues that need fixing. I doubt this will ever say talk about rules not working or needing revision. I doubt that the views of the presenters will ever be anything less than 100% in love with whatever product they're talking about. You don't have to be a negative Nancy, or a hard-boiled cynic like me, to present the negatives in something. You can look at the issue and then optimistically brainstorm solutions.
But I can't see that ever happening on this, as they'd have to acknowledge problems in the first place.
CodeKantorBlue wrote: I don't know about "Fish Elves", but variety in Primaris helmets is up to the person assembling the model. It's even covered in the podcast. Want to use a Corvus Helm on your Primaris? Do it. Treat it as a chapter relic armour piece. Likewise with Mark 6 shoulder pads.
Kinda missing the point I was making...
I'm not sure that is the point of this program HBMC. This seems more like a weekly show that will give us a behind the scenes look, it's not meant to discuss rules, tournament play or points. I would say that if you're looking for that, there are plenty of third party groups that provide such services, and I'm sure that GW proper knows this.
There was nothing gushing or hyperbolic about what I just watched. Jes is usually more honest than the bosses would like. No, it doesn’t drag GW products and rules, but no, their own show is never going to. GW have been openly critical of their failings on Twitch interviews before, so maybe just watch and decide if it’s a show you enjoy and want to keep watching? There seems little point in pre-judging when no one knows what they’ve got lined up. And if you want hyper critical, well, YouTube has no shortage of shrieking about what is ‘broken’, ‘garbage’, or otherwise able to garner clicks to gain ad revenue. Everyone is selling something...
Try responding politely instead of polarising further then. Unless you just want a fight then crack on, but the mods will squash that pretty quickly.
It is advertising. If you don’t see a point in it or enjoy it that’s fine. Leave others to enjoy it instead of decrying it’s existence. It was a nice interview. Maybe see what the series holds before pre-trashing it.
The criticism's there if you listen to it; specifically, the comments about how the themes of the "big four" chapters have become more simplified than Jes and John originally intended, or how some of the later Space Marines were becoming overburdened with bling.
Originally I preferred that angular style, but I've since been cured of that malady. The release of the AT Warlord was the final nail in the coffin. I wasn't sure about the 40k-sized model I thought it looked too squat and wide, but having the plastic model in my hand changed my opinion.
Really enjoyed listening to Jes talk about his design process and career- I'd love to hear more from him on specific ranges like eldar and tyrannids. I suppose what we are not going to get is how he envisions things moving forward. He did imply that Ynnari aren't a new faction as such but more of an evolution of the eldar range. Also how they are now looking at opening things up more, breaking the idea of a fixed set of armies. I think I'd like to hear more of that- even in broad terms -how they plan on developing things further.
I imagine we might see him back - get a whole hour on Space Marines or Eldar or whatever. More likely to be on the history than what's upcoming. After all, whaqtever he's doing now probably won't surface until 2023 - or might never appear at all.
Quite enjoyed it, listened to it twice whilst working. Kudos to Wade for simply guiding it by asking a question or remarking on something and letting Jes just take it from there with the anecdotes and history.
It was fun to hear Jes say that the Imperial Knight kit was an all or nothing project of his to see if he could get away with it and to make a giant robot of his own.
Trickstick wrote: Now I am usually not one to jump to conclusions, preferring to keep an open mind. But the way Jes referred to the Primaris as "the marine redesign" at 1:17 definitely made stop and think. It just seemed to be a bit of an odd way to refer to it, more like a replacement range of models than an additional set of units. I know that it is a popular opinion that standard marines are done, but just hearing it referred to in that way I found worthy of note.
I clocked that too. Really unsure if it was a genuine ‘new info’ thing, or just words. If that makes sense?
Interested to see how the Primaris develop going forwards.
I don't know actually. If you listen to how he talks about the Primaris in the last wee section there(after the "they're totes still kitbashable, I swapped a head on one just the other day!" spiel ), it all sounds very much like the(original?) concept was very much more a case of the existing Marines being "upgraded", mentioning how a Primaris Marine might initially wear his new MKX but after a while he'd want his favourite helmet and relic shoulderpad back and so on. We're starting to get a little bit of that aspect now with Calgar, but their initial introduction seems - assuming I'm reading what he's saying and his tone right - like it became a lot more abrupt and...dislocated? As if a bigwig somewhere along the line got nervous about giving players the idea they were replacing Marines and insisted they push the writing more towards them being a new and extra thing.
And now I'm sad because I'm imagining a universe where they just brought in a new range of Marines with the good old fashioned "Oh those? Oh yeah we found an STC down the back of the sofa, totally forgot we had that." thing instead of dumping Cawl and Primarchs and giant catastro-rifts all over the place to try and bodge together a scenario where the Primaris were both new and separate, but also everywhere in every chapter.
To be honest, if they did that, we would be complaining about it, because we would lack the insight of the worse alternative (Our current timeline). Just like when they did that with Centurions.
I was worried it would just be an over glorified commercial for GW, but it was a load better than that. I hope they keep their podcasts as this sort of peek behind the curtain.
Trickstick wrote: Now I am usually not one to jump to conclusions, preferring to keep an open mind. But the way Jes referred to the Primaris as "the marine redesign" at 1:17 definitely made stop and think. It just seemed to be a bit of an odd way to refer to it, more like a replacement range of models than an additional set of units. I know that it is a popular opinion that standard marines are done, but just hearing it referred to in that way I found worthy of note.
I clocked that too. Really unsure if it was a genuine ‘new info’ thing, or just words. If that makes sense?
Interested to see how the Primaris develop going forwards.
I don't know actually. If you listen to how he talks about the Primaris in the last wee section there(after the "they're totes still kitbashable, I swapped a head on one just the other day!" spiel ), it all sounds very much like the(original?) concept was very much more a case of the existing Marines being "upgraded", mentioning how a Primaris Marine might initially wear his new MKX but after a while he'd want his favourite helmet and relic shoulderpad back and so on. We're starting to get a little bit of that aspect now with Calgar, but their initial introduction seems - assuming I'm reading what he's saying and his tone right - like it became a lot more abrupt and...dislocated? As if a bigwig somewhere along the line got nervous about giving players the idea they were replacing Marines and insisted they push the writing more towards them being a new and extra thing.
And now I'm sad because I'm imagining a universe where they just brought in a new range of Marines with the good old fashioned "Oh those? Oh yeah we found an STC down the back of the sofa, totally forgot we had that." thing instead of dumping Cawl and Primarchs and giant catastro-rifts all over the place to try and bodge together a scenario where the Primaris were both new and separate, but also everywhere in every chapter.
To be honest, if they did that, we would be complaining about it, because we would lack the insight of the worse alternative (Our current timeline). Just like when they did that with Centurions.
Ah but see, that's the thing - loads of us complained about Centurions. And Chibi-Hawks. And loads of other stuff. But once we got over them wasting development resources and a release slot on some pretty wonky models...we could just ignore them. You could just say your chapter doesn't use them, or your company from Named Chapter X doesn't, or just ignore their existence entirely. Primaris though? What was done to insert them and the way they were inserted are not ignorable, they form a hard line that you either step across and accept them, or refuse to step across and get "left behind" now GW have moved from developing a setting to producing an ongoing plot. You can't say your chapter doesn't use them, because GW wrote that possibility out of existence with Our Spiritual Liege's Primaris Magical Mystery Tour, with special guest appearance by the Bananamen Messengers - everybody uses Primaris. You can't say your company doesn't use them, because the Mystery Tour was also written as including a rewrite of the Codex so all companies have them(even apparently in chapters that don't follow the codex, somehow...). And you certainly can't ignore them, because in order to meet that "new, separate, but also everywhere" standard, they tore the galaxy in half and shifted the tone of the whole IP by beginning the process of bringing back loyalist Primarchs. Heck one of the homebrew chapters I did was basically wiped out "off screen" by GW's changes, because the entire sector they primarily operated in is just gone, swallowed up by the rift.
If they'd introduced Primaris in the old way, I'm sure lots of folk would have complained, but eventually most folk who felt that way would just ignore them, or fall back to occasional jokes at their expense.
Yodhrin wrote: Ah but see, that's the thing - loads of us complained about Centurions. And Chibi-Hawks. And loads of other stuff. But once we got over them wasting development resources and a release slot on some pretty wonky models...we could just ignore them. You could just say your chapter doesn't use them, or your company from Named Chapter X doesn't, or just ignore their existence entirely. Primaris though? What was done to insert them and the way they were inserted are not ignorable, they form a hard line that you either step across and accept them, or refuse to step across and get "left behind" now GW have moved from developing a setting to producing an ongoing plot. You can't say your chapter doesn't use them, because GW wrote that possibility out of existence with Our Spiritual Liege's Primaris Magical Mystery Tour, with special guest appearance by the Bananamen Messengers - everybody uses Primaris. You can't say your company doesn't use them, because the Mystery Tour was also written as including a rewrite of the Codex so all companies have them(even apparently in chapters that don't follow the codex, somehow...). And you certainly can't ignore them, because in order to meet that "new, separate, but also everywhere" standard, they tore the galaxy in half and shifted the tone of the whole IP by beginning the process of bringing back loyalist Primarchs. Heck one of the homebrew chapters I did was basically wiped out "off screen" by GW's changes, because the entire sector they primarily operated in is just gone, swallowed up by the rift.
If they'd introduced Primaris in the old way, I'm sure lots of folk would have complained, but eventually most folk who felt that way would just ignore them, or fall back to occasional jokes at their expense.
You can just cherry pick the fluff you want, and adapt around it however you like. 40k lore is one of the loosest there is. For example, the rift didn't destroy that system, it warped space around it and shifted it a bit. Or it is in the warp, but only right on the surface, so you get daemon invasions but enough that can be defended against. Your chapter doesn't have primaris because they weren't reachable by storms, or records were lost in a fire, or the ships were attacked en route.
In 40k you can reason almost anything with about a minutes though. My favourite is "administrative error", as it can explain anything! I'm almost tempted to ask for challenges of things to explain. Of course, it is a lot easier when you are working at the edges. Trying to fluff Guilliman turning to chaos and then go get killed on the Tau homeworld is a bit of a stretch.
I'd be tempted to go for the 'records suggest the chapter was wiped out XXXX years ago so they're one of the refounded Primeris chapters'
of course the records are wrong (well probably, the warp does strange things with time and space) and now there are 2 chapters with the same name each thinking they're the only correct, loyal ones
Yodhrin wrote: Ah but see, that's the thing - loads of us complained about Centurions. And Chibi-Hawks. And loads of other stuff. But once we got over them wasting development resources and a release slot on some pretty wonky models...we could just ignore them. You could just say your chapter doesn't use them, or your company from Named Chapter X doesn't, or just ignore their existence entirely. Primaris though? What was done to insert them and the way they were inserted are not ignorable, they form a hard line that you either step across and accept them, or refuse to step across and get "left behind" now GW have moved from developing a setting to producing an ongoing plot. You can't say your chapter doesn't use them, because GW wrote that possibility out of existence with Our Spiritual Liege's Primaris Magical Mystery Tour, with special guest appearance by the Bananamen Messengers - everybody uses Primaris. You can't say your company doesn't use them, because the Mystery Tour was also written as including a rewrite of the Codex so all companies have them(even apparently in chapters that don't follow the codex, somehow...). And you certainly can't ignore them, because in order to meet that "new, separate, but also everywhere" standard, they tore the galaxy in half and shifted the tone of the whole IP by beginning the process of bringing back loyalist Primarchs. Heck one of the homebrew chapters I did was basically wiped out "off screen" by GW's changes, because the entire sector they primarily operated in is just gone, swallowed up by the rift.
If they'd introduced Primaris in the old way, I'm sure lots of folk would have complained, but eventually most folk who felt that way would just ignore them, or fall back to occasional jokes at their expense.
You can just cherry pick the fluff you want, and adapt around it however you like. 40k lore is one of the loosest there is. For example, the rift didn't destroy that system, it warped space around it and shifted it a bit. Or it is in the warp, but only right on the surface, so you get daemon invasions but enough that can be defended against. Your chapter doesn't have primaris because they weren't reachable by storms, or records were lost in a fire, or the ships were attacked en route.
In 40k you can reason almost anything with about a minutes though. My favourite is "administrative error", as it can explain anything! I'm almost tempted to ask for challenges of things to explain. Of course, it is a lot easier when you are working at the edges. Trying to fluff Guilliman turning to chaos and then go get killed on the Tau homeworld is a bit of a stretch.
Or, I can just ignore all of it and continue playing the good setting I already like - 40K - rather than spending all of my time rewriting all my own stuff because of GW's changes. And continue doing that indefinitely, because they're clearly committed to an ongoing, galaxy-affecting plot now.
Besides which, some of those explanations wouldn't work because GW didn't leave room for them to work. Every chapter uses Primaris. All of them. No ifs, no buts, no exceptions, they were *all* visited by or communicated to by Rowboat and a Custodian with a personal message from Papa Corpsicle commanding they obey. In order to have a chapter so isolated that Rowboat couldn't even get them on the phone over the course of a century long crusade that toddled about all over the Galaxy, they would have to be pee-drinking recluses living out in the Halo Stars never leaving their homeworld, and never interact with the Imperium proper again(because if they did, they'd be contacted by Rowboat and "gifted" Primaris). Plus if you like the actual named chapters, forgeddit. And if a planet is right in the rift, then it's done for, basically a daemon world like the ones the older material described in the Eye of Terror - warped realities, whims of gods, rampant mutation etc etc.
The strength of 40Kwas that it was loose and ambiguous, and that GW rarely told stories in the setting that were both "present day" and had major consequences beyond the immediate location; the former is only true now insofar as the old background continues to exist until directly contradicted, but the latter is firmly out the window - the timeline has advanced into "not-41K" and will keep advancing, and they're going to keep introducing big, galaxy-shifting events in order to justify releasing stuff like Primarchs.
Carlovonsexron wrote: The Custodes codex IIRC says they maxe sure all the astartes chapters accepted Primaris.
Absolute statements mean little when you talk about a setting of the scale that 40k is. Plus, a lot of the lore has an definite "unreliable narrator" spin to it, and can't be fully trusted.
I must admit (and almost certainly read into it wrong), I got a bit excited when he started talking about Primaris getting comfortable and starting to inherit chapter styles and adopt their own looks again in the future. Would love to see proper Blood Angel Primaris.
Tiberius501 wrote: I must admit (and almost certainly read into it wrong), I got a bit excited when he started talking about Primaris getting comfortable and starting to inherit chapter styles and adopt their own looks again in the future. Would love to see proper Blood Angel Primaris.
Yodhrin wrote: Ah but see, that's the thing - loads of us complained about Centurions. And Chibi-Hawks. And loads of other stuff. But once we got over them wasting development resources and a release slot on some pretty wonky models...we could just ignore them. You could just say your chapter doesn't use them, or your company from Named Chapter X doesn't, or just ignore their existence entirely. Primaris though? What was done to insert them and the way they were inserted are not ignorable, they form a hard line that you either step across and accept them, or refuse to step across and get "left behind" now GW have moved from developing a setting to producing an ongoing plot. You can't say your chapter doesn't use them, because GW wrote that possibility out of existence with Our Spiritual Liege's Primaris Magical Mystery Tour, with special guest appearance by the Bananamen Messengers - everybody uses Primaris. You can't say your company doesn't use them, because the Mystery Tour was also written as including a rewrite of the Codex so all companies have them(even apparently in chapters that don't follow the codex, somehow...). And you certainly can't ignore them, because in order to meet that "new, separate, but also everywhere" standard, they tore the galaxy in half and shifted the tone of the whole IP by beginning the process of bringing back loyalist Primarchs. Heck one of the homebrew chapters I did was basically wiped out "off screen" by GW's changes, because the entire sector they primarily operated in is just gone, swallowed up by the rift.
If they'd introduced Primaris in the old way, I'm sure lots of folk would have complained, but eventually most folk who felt that way would just ignore them, or fall back to occasional jokes at their expense.
You can just cherry pick the fluff you want, and adapt around it however you like. 40k lore is one of the loosest there is. For example, the rift didn't destroy that system, it warped space around it and shifted it a bit. Or it is in the warp, but only right on the surface, so you get daemon invasions but enough that can be defended against. Your chapter doesn't have primaris because they weren't reachable by storms, or records were lost in a fire, or the ships were attacked en route.
In 40k you can reason almost anything with about a minutes though. My favourite is "administrative error", as it can explain anything! I'm almost tempted to ask for challenges of things to explain. Of course, it is a lot easier when you are working at the edges. Trying to fluff Guilliman turning to chaos and then go get killed on the Tau homeworld is a bit of a stretch.
Or, I can just ignore all of it and continue playing the good setting I already like - 40K - rather than spending all of my time rewriting all my own stuff because of GW's changes. And continue doing that indefinitely, because they're clearly committed to an ongoing, galaxy-affecting plot now.
Besides which, some of those explanations wouldn't work because GW didn't leave room for them to work. Every chapter uses Primaris. All of them. No ifs, no buts, no exceptions, they were *all* visited by or communicated to by Rowboat and a Custodian with a personal message from Papa Corpsicle commanding they obey. In order to have a chapter so isolated that Rowboat couldn't even get them on the phone over the course of a century long crusade that toddled about all over the Galaxy, they would have to be pee-drinking recluses living out in the Halo Stars never leaving their homeworld, and never interact with the Imperium proper again(because if they did, they'd be contacted by Rowboat and "gifted" Primaris). Plus if you like the actual named chapters, forgeddit. And if a planet is right in the rift, then it's done for, basically a daemon world like the ones the older material described in the Eye of Terror - warped realities, whims of gods, rampant mutation etc etc.
The strength of 40Kwas that it was loose and ambiguous, and that GW rarely told stories in the setting that were both "present day" and had major consequences beyond the immediate location; the former is only true now insofar as the old background continues to exist until directly contradicted, but the latter is firmly out the window - the timeline has advanced into "not-41K" and will keep advancing, and they're going to keep introducing big, galaxy-shifting events in order to justify releasing stuff like Primarchs.
Now you know how us squat players felt back in the day. GW just pissed all over the lore and now we just had to accept it. time to play in the pre 42nd millennium established timeline before primaris and gorks grin.
BTW, I like my primaris but I will always have my RTB-01 to remind others of previous changes to "insert term here".
back on topic, I really enjoyed the voxcast and Jes' insights into the thought process behind a revamp/new range. My ynarri are very hopeful after a few comments he made.
Carlovonsexron wrote: The Custodes codex IIRC says they maxe sure all the astartes chapters accepted Primaris.
Which sounds like a fun fluff-justification for a Marines vs. Custodes match, nothing more.
You're not getting it. The Custodes 'dex states that they made sure - past tense - that all Chapters accepted them, by telling them it was a straight-up order from Him on Earth. It happened already, off-screen, during the century long screenwipe of the Indomitus Crusade, no ifs no buts no maybes no holdouts. And since it is now the firmly established status quo, isolation only works as a way to avoid it if that isolation is permanent, because as soon as your isolated homebrew made contact with the Imperium again their choices would be A; go along with the new status quo, or B; refuse a direct command from the Emperor Himself, delivered by His annointed guardian-messengers at the request of his reborn Primarch son, at which point they're renegades for however long it takes Rowboat to send one of his newly minted Chapters of enforcers to wipe them out.
GW have decided everyone gets Primaris, and they have written the background surrounding their introduction in such a way that it brooks no argument or exception - this is not the usual unreliable narrator/myths and legends/different points of view style of GW fluff, it's an in-setting settled fact. Hence why some of us are pissy about it.
Surely you can just not use Primaris if they bother you so much? The marine model range is still by far the biggest there is. There may not be any more non-primaris releases going forward but I'd bet that the existing range won't be squatted for a good number of years. Plus there's probably millions of marine models available on the secondary market. Nobody's saying you need to have Primaris in your army.
Yodhrin wrote: You're not getting it. The Custodes 'dex states that they made sure - past tense - that all Chapters accepted them, by telling them it was a straight-up order from Him on Earth.
I'm not seeing it that way, i'm seeing wiggle room in the statements in that book. For example:
...even the most traditional Chapters accepted the Primaris warriors...
This parts states that some reticent chapters accepted the Primaris, but doesn't state that they all did. Is there an example that states that _all_ chapters received emissaries and that they all accepted? Even with a definitive statement like that, there would still be ways to work around it. The Imperium is a gargantuan, ungovernable entity at the best of times. With the upheaval of the current situation, I think it almost impossible that a single chapter was not forgotten about or missed.
Yodhrin wrote: You can't say your company doesn't use them, because the Mystery Tour was also written as including a rewrite of the Codex so all companies have them(even apparently in chapters that don't follow the codex, somehow...).
Yup, and that's why, in Vigilus campaign, all formations (which are supposed to represent forces fighting on the planet) are all full of primaris.
Oh, wait, they are not, and in fact vast majority of formations is in fact completely primaris-free, save for Crimson Fists and generic formation for Ultima founding, all-primaris chapters. Even Ultramarines have next to none of them in their own, save for two (not very good) new HG primaris, which is kinda weird for "everyone everywhere has them" thing. Did Calgar forgot to read the memo or something?
And you certainly can't ignore them, because in order to meet that "new, separate, but also everywhere" standard, they tore the galaxy in half and shifted the tone of the whole IP by beginning the process of bringing back loyalist Primarchs.
The process that three years later still failed to bring second one, to the point none are even rumored besides from usual always-wrong clickbaiters? That one?
Heck one of the homebrew chapters I did was basically wiped out "off screen" by GW's changes, because the entire sector they primarily operated in is just gone, swallowed up by the rift.
Virtually all chapters that had home world swallowed by warp storm in the past, which is at least a few dozen, simply became fleet based using their existing assets after they evacuated. Mind if I ask why this very simple, repeated over and over in canon for the past three decades solution is so unacceptable?
AndrewGPaul wrote: is it worth getting "pissy" over, when you can just ignore it? It's only an issue if one of your group has the Custodes book, after all.
Take it from a Necron player, there's no way of going back no matter how hard you try. GW will keep reminding you, new players that don't know better will keep reminding you. New models and rules will only reflect the new thing and unless you are willing to move closer to the new thing and away from the old, you will be left behind and there won't be a game for you to play anymore.
No amount of invoking the power of one's imagination will change that.
Yodhrin wrote: Ah but see, that's the thing - loads of us complained about Centurions. And Chibi-Hawks. And loads of other stuff. But once we got over them wasting development resources and a release slot on some pretty wonky models...we could just ignore them. You could just say your chapter doesn't use them, or your company from Named Chapter X doesn't, or just ignore their existence entirely. Primaris though? What was done to insert them and the way they were inserted are not ignorable, they form a hard line that you either step across and accept them, or refuse to step across and get "left behind" now GW have moved from developing a setting to producing an ongoing plot. You can't say your chapter doesn't use them, because GW wrote that possibility out of existence with Our Spiritual Liege's Primaris Magical Mystery Tour, with special guest appearance by the Bananamen Messengers - everybody uses Primaris. You can't say your company doesn't use them, because the Mystery Tour was also written as including a rewrite of the Codex so all companies have them(even apparently in chapters that don't follow the codex, somehow...). And you certainly can't ignore them, because in order to meet that "new, separate, but also everywhere" standard, they tore the galaxy in half and shifted the tone of the whole IP by beginning the process of bringing back loyalist Primarchs. Heck one of the homebrew chapters I did was basically wiped out "off screen" by GW's changes, because the entire sector they primarily operated in is just gone, swallowed up by the rift.
If they'd introduced Primaris in the old way, I'm sure lots of folk would have complained, but eventually most folk who felt that way would just ignore them, or fall back to occasional jokes at their expense.
You can just cherry pick the fluff you want, and adapt around it however you like. 40k lore is one of the loosest there is. For example, the rift didn't destroy that system, it warped space around it and shifted it a bit. Or it is in the warp, but only right on the surface, so you get daemon invasions but enough that can be defended against. Your chapter doesn't have primaris because they weren't reachable by storms, or records were lost in a fire, or the ships were attacked en route.
In 40k you can reason almost anything with about a minutes though. My favourite is "administrative error", as it can explain anything! I'm almost tempted to ask for challenges of things to explain. Of course, it is a lot easier when you are working at the edges. Trying to fluff Guilliman turning to chaos and then go get killed on the Tau homeworld is a bit of a stretch.
Or, I can just ignore all of it and continue playing the good setting I already like - 40K - rather than spending all of my time rewriting all my own stuff because of GW's changes. And continue doing that indefinitely, because they're clearly committed to an ongoing, galaxy-affecting plot now.
Besides which, some of those explanations wouldn't work because GW didn't leave room for them to work. Every chapter uses Primaris. All of them. No ifs, no buts, no exceptions, they were *all* visited by or communicated to by Rowboat and a Custodian with a personal message from Papa Corpsicle commanding they obey. In order to have a chapter so isolated that Rowboat couldn't even get them on the phone over the course of a century long crusade that toddled about all over the Galaxy, they would have to be pee-drinking recluses living out in the Halo Stars never leaving their homeworld, and never interact with the Imperium proper again(because if they did, they'd be contacted by Rowboat and "gifted" Primaris). Plus if you like the actual named chapters, forgeddit. And if a planet is right in the rift, then it's done for, basically a daemon world like the ones the older material described in the Eye of Terror - warped realities, whims of gods, rampant mutation etc etc.
The strength of 40Kwas that it was loose and ambiguous, and that GW rarely told stories in the setting that were both "present day" and had major consequences beyond the immediate location; the former is only true now insofar as the old background continues to exist until directly contradicted, but the latter is firmly out the window - the timeline has advanced into "not-41K" and will keep advancing, and they're going to keep introducing big, galaxy-shifting events in order to justify releasing stuff like Primarchs.
...Uh just say that fighting force in particular wasn't supplemented with Primaris or they died letting them escape to fight another day.
You're overcomplicating a problem you created in your own head.
BrookM wrote: Can we get back onto the topic of the podcast please
By all means.
I hope they get in some of the rule book and story book artists in future episodes. As this first episode has shown, there's back and forth between concept art, game art, the models themselves. I should like to hear about that creation process. Do they put models on their desk as they work? What medium do they work in and how? Where did that inspiration come from? And so on.
There was a time when the artwork got a bit lean until more recent rule book editions. Now almost every book is packed with some new full page art, maps, smaller illustrations and even detailed page border iconography; somewhat reminiscent of the first edition RT book. All of it gives the reader a deeper understanding to the game setting.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I'm not entirely sure who Yod's replying to?
drbored didn't label me as anything untoward.
drbored wrote: I get what you're saying, and if the Warhammer Community site and videos and podcasts were the only place someone was getting their information, then maybe that might not be for the best in the long-run because you don't really end up with a serious dialogue on how to improve facets of the games/company.
But, I think many hobbyists get their information from plenty of sources (facebook groups, hobby forums, or just chatting with their local friends), and having the company itself put out informative material is nice, especially when it's design/hobby related like this podcast with Jes. It was interesting to get his insight, as rose-tinted as it might be. You take this, as you should any news from the mouth of any company, with a grain of salt.
My hope is that as they continue, more of that positivity will leak into other places, like these forums, and people won't make such incredible knee-jerk world-is-ending reactions to every little thing that comes out of this company. The more we can discuss things like adults, the better.
Yeah, no, that's fair enough. Multiple sources and all that.
I guess my real issue with this is the main issue I have with pretty much everything GW does (except their prices): They never go far enough for my tastes. They always seem to be holding back and wasting the potential they have. I always see them as a company that could be doing better and bolder things. It's always one big step forward, then a diagonal step to the side, then five little steps back as if what they saw during the step forward frightened them.
I agree with you there. From my perspective, it seems like their priorities when it comes to giving us new models is completely skewed. They shove Primaris and Nurgle down our throats for two years straight and expect that to be ok, but then roll their eyes when we're upset that Space Wolves or Orks didn't get more with their release, or try to pretend like the current state of Khorne Berzerkers, Eldar Aspect Warriors, and other ancient kits is just fine when they're being out-scaled by new releases. It seems like we have big expectations for every release that GW does and they tend to fall short of that. I've been particularly upset by all of these mono-pose releases. I'm worried that when Sisters of Battle finally get their plastics, they'll all be push-fit mono-pose models that look samey as soon as you have more than three of them, zero options for the Cannoness, and no 'generic' Living Saint model/rules. That seems to be the way they're going, anyway.
I always look to the stark differences between the Thousand Sons and the Death Guard releases. I wish they'd discuss this kind of change a bit more, because it does tie into the changes with Primaris minis vs regular Marine minis.
1KSons and DG had a (somewhat) mirrored release, with Death Guard getting more Clampacks/vehicles, but the infantry releases all had their equivalents. But then you look at the options you get:
Thousand Sons Marines are like every other Marine kit. They are built in a pretty standard way. Then look at the PlagueMarines. They only work with themselves. And that's before we even get to the fact there are only 7 of them for the price of 10, but that's a whole other issue...
You get a repeat of that with the 1KSons Terminators. Those are pretty normal for a Termy kit. Death Guard termies? Look atthese. Same problem.
And finally the big one. I mean is there any comparison between this kit, and then thesethreeminis. One is a Marine kit with tons of options and a wide variety of kit-bashing potential. The other is three clampack characters that somehow ended up in the same box.
Now I love the Deathguard minis from an aesthetic perspective, but from a technical perspective they are not a positive step for 40K. Like you, I worry what this means for Aspect Warriors and other older kits moving forward (mono-pose no-option Guardsmen...). It'd be nice to hear about this on something like a Podcast, but then we run into another of GW's phobias - revealing things ahead of time.
Yodhrin wrote: The strength of 40Kwas that it was loose and ambiguous, and that GW rarely told stories in the setting that were both "present day" and had major consequences beyond the immediate location; the former is only true now insofar as the old background continues to exist until directly contradicted, but the latter is firmly out the window - the timeline has advanced into "not-41K" and will keep advancing, and they're going to keep introducing big, galaxy-shifting events in order to justify releasing stuff like Primarchs.
I cannot exalt this enough. 40K's most defining strength was the setting, within which stories could be told. Now they're trying to turn it into an ongoing developing story. But I'll leave this be as Brook said to drop it.
I found it quite well presented and Jes is always good to listen too. I hope they sort out the audio levels for future episodes, it was a bit hard to hear him sometimes.
Also what happened to the last GW presenter.. what was her name.. Ceri? I know Rob left a while back.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I always look to the stark differences between the Thousand Sons and the Death Guard releases. I wish they'd discuss this kind of change a bit more, because it does tie into the changes with Primaris minis vs regular Marine minis.
1KSons and DG had a (somewhat) mirrored release, with Death Guard getting more Clampacks/vehicles, but the infantry releases all had their equivalents. But then you look at the options you get:
Thousand Sons Marines are like every other Marine kit. They are built in a pretty standard way. Then look at the PlagueMarines. They only work with themselves. And that's before we even get to the fact there are only 7 of them for the price of 10, but that's a whole other issue...
You get a repeat of that with the 1KSons Terminators. Those are pretty normal for a Termy kit. Death Guard termies? Look atthese. Same problem.
And finally the big one. I mean is there any comparison between this kit, and then thesethreeminis. One is a Marine kit with tons of options and a wide variety of kit-bashing potential. The other is three clampack characters that somehow ended up in the same box.
Now I love the Deathguard minis from an aesthetic perspective, but from a technical perspective they are not a positive step for 40K. Like you, I worry what this means for Aspect Warriors and other older kits moving forward (mono-pose no-option Guardsmen...). It'd be nice to hear about this on something like a Podcast, but then we run into another of GW's phobias - revealing things ahead of time.
Oh yeah, this is totally a problem that I agree with. My local GW manager even claimed that the Exalted Sorcerer kit was the last of its kind that GW would make (it's kind being: multi-option, non mono-pose). Then we get these voxcasts and these guys will exalt the mono-pose miniatures like they're the hottest thing since sliced bread, despite fans railing against it.
The worst part? The voxcast revealed that they work on these things 4+ years in advance. Even if GW got the message that we DON'T want mono-pose models, it's likely that this is what we'll be stuck with for the next 3-4 years.
The Genestealer Cult models coming up with be revealing. We already know the Abominant and the Gunslinger have zero poseability or customization, but what about the bikes and the quad? What other models may come out that could have more options? The Fiends of Slaanesh at least look pretty promising with the different head and claw options that they have... but then we had the Ork release. Each buggy was so unique, which is cool... but if you wanted to run more than 1 of a certain type, good luck customizing those buggies to look properly different in a way that A. reveals what they're supposed to be, B. represents their weapons properly, and C. isn't called 'modeling for advantage' in any way. The Warboss on Trike? Zero customization, only one weapon loadout, etc.
But that's why I look at places like this, Facebook groups, and other stuff to figure out the actual temperature of the community, not just the Voxcast. If anything, I'm super happy that Jes revealed a bit about the design process. Now I know that if I complain to GW, they might make a change to their designs 4 years from now
Just listened to it and that was a great first episode. (the version on iTunes had great audio btw, no problems there)
It's going to be hard to top, Jes is a great guy, and it was very interesting. They mentioned several times that the initial Primaris release was only "the top of the iceberg", so there are definitely more things coming.
I definitely got the impression that the Primaris will eventually replace the standard marines though. I've got some mixed feelings there - the infantry models are great, but the Repulsor rubs me the wrong way, let's hope they have some more interesting Primaris vehicles in the pipeline.
I've long thought that with GW's drive to make everything plastic that they'd eventually "sculpt themselves into a corner" (so to speak) when it came to Marines. Once everything was plastic, where could they go other than remaking them again, or just inventing new things that were "always there, just off-camera"?
We saw the instant effects of this:
1. They did start remaking things again (the current Tac, Dev and Assault Squads being the best examples).
2. They did start making gak up (Chibi-Hawk, Centurions, Space Guppie, and so on).
Primaris, in a way, whilst not something I'd call the logical next step (there's nothing logical about completely altering your fluff to introduce super-duper-my-dad-can-kick-your-dad's-ass better-Marines), but probably the most extreme example of what happens when you've made everything in plastic already.
Sadly, at least from my perspective, they didn't actually reach the logical end point. Man I was hoping for a plastic Tech-Marine/Thunderfire/Servitor kit before all this Primaris stuff kicked off. Now we're never going to get another regular Marine kit again, so that's off the table.
NurglesR0T wrote: I found it quite well presented and Jes is always good to listen too. I hope they sort out the audio levels for future episodes, it was a bit hard to hear him sometimes.
Also what happened to the last GW presenter.. what was her name.. Ceri? I know Rob left a while back.
I wondered that too, and it was mentioned in the second Tales of four Heresy Warlords show on the Twitch channel a couple of months or so ago; she's apparently left GW, but I don't know where to. There's been a lot of shuffling around of the Warhammer TV staff; I don't remember seeing much of Martin, the (Northern?) Irish guy, and Wade Price and Adam Troke have moved from games design / management positions to presenting.
You can still find Ceri on Instagram an Twitter with her Handle purplemonkey790.
As far as I can tell Ceri works now at ZeroLatency VRUK... but she is still posting a lot AoS and WH40K related content on her instagramm page.
And additionally she seems to have started streaming on Twitch (www.twitch.tv/thehobbyroom) even though I did not have the chance to join so far due to vacation abroad...
I'm surprised he has an Instagram for his minis, I seem to remember him saying that GW weren't allowing them to do social medias with their stuff (seemed legit as Fildunn, Brokenblade etc all stopped posting around that time too).
JWBS wrote: I'm surprised he has an Instagram for his minis, I seem to remember him saying that GW weren't allowing them to do social medias with their stuff (seemed legit as Fildunn, Brokenblade etc all stopped posting around that time too).
That's definitely not the case anymore, if it ever was.
JWBS wrote: I'm surprised he has an Instagram for his minis, I seem to remember him saying that GW weren't allowing them to do social medias with their stuff (seemed legit as Fildunn, Brokenblade etc all stopped posting around that time too).
That's definitely not the case anymore, if it ever was.
Ah yes, Darren Latham- the GW staffer that berated me for painting Ragnar Blackmane's hair blonde, like in the studio mini at the time. ("He's not called blondemane is he?"). Is he still just as arrogant here or is this worth a listen?
Grimtuff wrote: Ah yes, Darren Latham- the GW staffer that berated me for painting Ragnar Blackmane's hair blonde, like in the studio mini at the time. ("He's not called blondemane is he?"). Is he still just as arrogant here or is this worth a listen?
Hi Grimtuff,
Darren here, I'm sorry I came across like that when I said that. I don't remember that conversation so it must have been quite a while ago. It seems funny to me as I've actually painted my Ragnar with blonde hair!
Anyway, I'm sorry again and I'm sure it was my youthful arrogance that spoke which I certainly don't carry anymore.
All the best! Darren.
I enjoyed the podcast, not just saying it because the man who was interviewed has commented but a good precedent has been set from these initial two podcasts and I'm keen for the next one. There's some really nice tidbits of information in these.
A couple of things that I've really enjoyed hearing about in both episodes so far are how the hobby side(building, painting and gaming) effects the design process of the models. As well as how the different departments of the studio play off and influence each other.
Grimtuff wrote: Ah yes, Darren Latham- the GW staffer that berated me for painting Ragnar Blackmane's hair blonde, like in the studio mini at the time. ("He's not called blondemane is he?"). Is he still just as arrogant here or is this worth a listen?
Why I am having an inkling that this never happened?
It seems a really weird thing to make up. Fan of conspiracy theories?
Anyway I never got into listening to podcasts. I read very quickly so would rather have this written out as an article if its that interesting. Same with youtube reviews.
Dirk wrote: Anyway I never got into listening to podcasts. I read very quickly so would rather have this written out as an article if its that interesting. Same with youtube reviews.
Podcasts are great as a secondary activity. Listen to them whilst painting or playing a non-narrative game.
So someone at GW looks in here from time to time. I have now enjoyed both Voxcasts so far, but please get sound isolating microphone stands. Every hand on the table thumps into the audio. Don't stop the interviewees being enthusiastic and animated, just get better sound isolation.
As for the most recent episode it was another nice insight into the processes of design. Three things in particular caught my attention.
1. The renewal and modernising of older designs ***cough*** SoB ***cough*** with callbacks older returning players can recognise. (More Mark 6 please)
2. The 2nd hand painting tip of washes over white. I may try that on some bases first. If it goes horribly wrong I can always go muddier without wrecking the model itself.
3. I KNEW those Sternguard faces had to be Titus and Sidonus. It's probably been confirmed before elsewhere but it was the first I'd heard.
Another very nice episode. I enjoyed listening to it while painting - it is very interesting to get some insight into how the design process works and how the different teams interact.
Grimtuff wrote: Ah yes, Darren Latham- the GW staffer that berated me for painting Ragnar Blackmane's hair blonde, like in the studio mini at the time. ("He's not called blondemane is he?"). Is he still just as arrogant here or is this worth a listen?
Hi Grimtuff,
Darren here, I'm sorry I came across like that when I said that. I don't remember that conversation so it must have been quite a while ago. It seems funny to me as I've actually painted my Ragnar with blonde hair!
Anyway, I'm sorry again and I'm sure it was my youthful arrogance that spoke which I certainly don't carry anymore.
All the best! Darren.
Whether meant in jest at the time or perhaps youthful foolishness.
It’s nice to see an apology, and taking the time on Christmas Day no less!
Managed to sit down and listen to the cast and was disappointed about the lack of Dark Eldar, I expected some chat about them seeing as he was part of the redesign!
That being said however, I really liked his explanation on the fluff of Primaris and how not everyone just accepts them into the fold as battle brothers and how there are 3 waves of Primaris which makes me think that there'll be some sort of integration of the previous armour marks that Jes hinted at in his interview. He's also convinced me that Vigilus is a really cool campaign.
Danny76 wrote: What did Jes hint at for other armour marks?
He mentioned that nothing will be pristine and in good condition forever so the Primaris pattern armour will eventually degrade or marines will choose to wear certain armour pieces that they've always worn. It basically gives a reason to put Corvus helmets onto Primaris without complaints.
I've watched all of the voxcasts so far and I've been struck by how enthusiastic and thoughtful the interviewees have all been. Jes is always going to be worth listening to but the others were also very interesting and I like the host as well, Wade Price. To me it shows how wrong-headed the previous attitude of hiding creative staff from the public was. I hope we get a Blanche one soon but it would also be great to hear from Brian Nelson and some of the other older school sculptors.
I like the confirmation of what a lot of people assumed: The codexes became more interesting as time went on and as they explored more avenues for the rules.
Now the question is: ok, so now that you know that you can do better, when are we going to get new Space Marine and Chaos Marine Codexes that have new flavorful rules?
Rogerio134134 wrote: Just washed the Phil Kelly one, I really liked the end where they talk about marines. Interesting stuff, I'll watch the crudace one tomorrow.
I plan to catch up and watch that one, but what did he exactly say?
Kendo wrote: So far I think I prefer the conversations with the writers versus sculptors.
I want John Blanche on on of these interviews. Blanchitsu!!!
Blanche is an ..."artist"... though, not a writer.
I guess you were just making two different statements.
I don't do the podcast thing so I have no idea what anyone is talking about here. But should anyone make a transcription I can read feel free to let me know.
Unless they do a Blanche one... I don't have any interest in what he has to say.
I would have thought that anyone with an interest in the Warhammer settings would be interested in one of the guiding minds behind those settings; even if you don't like their work, the thought processes behind how things have been developed is interesting.
AndrewGPaul wrote: I would have thought that anyone with an interest in the Warhammer settings would be interested in one of the guiding minds behind those settings; even if you don't like their work, the thought processes behind how things have been developed is interesting.
It's perfectly possible to believe in a thing's success despite its main influence and not be wrong.
Not describing myself, mind. I like Blanche's work just fine.
Another great episode and Maxime Pastourel was an interesting guest. "Even as miniature designers we are story tellers" summarises their job perfectly.
Just going to say this now, before listening to the rest... But it makes me genuinely sad to hear them talk about how good, manoeuvrable and "stabby" Reivers are in a forward assault role for Marines. The disconnect really is highlighted at times like this imo.
Kdash wrote: Just going to say this now, before listening to the rest... But it makes me genuinely sad to hear them talk about how good, manoeuvrable and "stabby" Reivers are in a forward assault role for Marines. The disconnect really is highlighted at times like this imo.
Yeah... I cringed at that. Well, it's not Jes' fault, he didn't write the rules.
Kdash wrote: All in all though, an interesting episode to listen to, filled with a fair amount of hints/semi confirmations of things that are in the pipeline.
Yep. For everyone's delight it seems pretty clear that we'll see more marines in our new favourite armour, the Suppressor jump armour! (I hope they will be melee guys, would makes sense.) I also appreciate how Jes talks about how they wanted to give each Primaris unit and character a distinct feel, instead of being similar guys with slightly different weapons. That is a good goal, though, I'm not sure the rule guys are quite on the ball on this.
Kdash wrote: All in all though, an interesting episode to listen to, filled with a fair amount of hints/semi confirmations of things that are in the pipeline.
Yep. For everyone's delight it seems pretty clear that we'll see more marines in our new favourite armour, the Suppressor jump armour! (I hope they will be melee guys, would makes sense.) I also appreciate how Jes talks about how they wanted to give each Primaris unit and character a distinct feel, instead of being similar guys with slightly different weapons. That is a good goal, though, I'm not sure the rule guys are quite on the ball on this.
I'm not sure, are you making a really really dry joke? Because "Primaris" and "distinct" are not words one commonly finds employed together. I mean seriously, it's an army that is almost entirely equipped with varieties of bolter.
Kdash wrote: All in all though, an interesting episode to listen to, filled with a fair amount of hints/semi confirmations of things that are in the pipeline.
Yep. For everyone's delight it seems pretty clear that we'll see more marines in our new favourite armour, the Suppressor jump armour! (I hope they will be melee guys, would makes sense.) I also appreciate how Jes talks about how they wanted to give each Primaris unit and character a distinct feel, instead of being similar guys with slightly different weapons. That is a good goal, though, I'm not sure the rule guys are quite on the ball on this.
I'm not sure, are you making a really really dry joke? Because "Primaris" and "distinct" are not words one commonly finds employed together. I mean seriously, it's an army that is almost entirely equipped with varieties of bolter.
Given the amount that people talk about Primaris, they are clearly distinctive. Nobody would care about them if they weren't. (for better or worse!)
Yeah, I really appreciated the distinction of Primaris types or categories, i.e. those based on the standard Intercessor "frame" (e.g. Hellblasters), those on the heavier Gravis armour "frame" (e.g. Aggressors, Inceptors, etc..) and the Reiver, which get's expanded massively in Shadowspear.
But the Suppressors curiously don't seem to fit. They are a hybrid between the Gravis-based Inceptors and the Reiver-visuals with the small grav chute things instead of the Inceptor jump pack.
For all the emphasis Jes Goodwin & co. place on silhouette and character, etc.., the Suppressors feel off in that regard..
Sunny Side Up wrote: But the Suppressors curiously don't seem to fit. They are a hybrid between the Gravis-based Inceptors and the Reiver-visuals with the small grav chute things instead of the Inceptor jump pack.
For all the emphasis Jes Goodwin & co. place on silhouette and character, etc.., the Suppressors feel off in that regard..
Rapid deployment of a highly mobile Devastator type unit makes perfect sense to me. Hop to a high point with some cover and good line of sight then harass the enemy. Jump out if it gets too much.
The design language suggests that they fill a heavy sniper role for thinning massed ranks of enemies as well as an anti-materiel role. The name Suppressor seems accurate.
Or was your objection that they didn't fit with the theme of the rest of the set? Because they look like the only credible threat to the Venomcrawler (or at least the ones that can take it out quickly).
I'm not sure, are you making a really really dry joke? Because "Primaris" and "distinct" are not words one commonly finds employed together. I mean seriously, it's an army that is almost entirely equipped with varieties of bolter.
Thing, is now there are actually varieties of armour that serve a purpose. Inceptor is not just an Intercessor with a jump pack bolted on and different guns, it is a new type of armour with integrated thusters. Similarly stealthy marines are not just Intercessors with camo cloaks, they have a different armour that is specifically designed for that role. Whilst the amount of bolters indeed is excessive at the moment, I still like this approach. It is fun to see what new variations there will be. The old method would have been to just release new, almost identical, versions of the stuff we already have, or some flanderised monstrosities that look like christmas trees, but are still the same basic guys under that bling.
Dan Abnett was on the voxcast this week. A really good episode. Interesting to hear how the Horus Heresy series developed, and the approach that gw is taking to the fiction as a whole.
Sunny Side Up wrote: Yeah, I really appreciated the distinction of Primaris types or categories, i.e. those based on the standard Intercessor "frame" (e.g. Hellblasters), those on the heavier Gravis armour "frame" (e.g. Aggressors, Inceptors, etc..) and the Reiver, which get's expanded massively in Shadowspear.
But the Suppressors curiously don't seem to fit. They are a hybrid between the Gravis-based Inceptors and the Reiver-visuals with the small grav chute things instead of the Inceptor jump pack.
For all the emphasis Jes Goodwin & co. place on silhouette and character, etc.., the Suppressors feel off in that regard..
He seemed to be saying that they're not wearing Gravis Armor, instead wearing Tacitus(the 'standard' Intercessor armor). Because of the weight difference and their roles, they're able to only be deployed from aircraft rather than orbital as the Inceptors can be--and they are able to use grav-chutes rather than a full on 'jet pack' to be used for their drops. They can use the exoskeleton braces on the legs to 'jump' into new positions rather than actually fly.
In all honesty, everything he said makes me want them to have "Fly" removed and have a bespoked rule that lets them count as having Fly for the purposes of moving over terrain.
Sign me right up for that. Thunder Warriors vs. Techno Barbarians across the blasted landscape of Terra? Cool.
That would be tremendous.
I think Dan really wants to write how the thunder warriors fight from their perspective. Itll be cool if they let him do it.
Also, he said something about after the Siege of Terra, he wants to visit stories set during the heresy but not necessarily effecting the outcome. This intrigues me.
Also, he said something about after the Siege of Terra, he wants to visit stories set during the heresy but not necessarily effecting the outcome. This intrigues me.
Isn't that at least half of the books in the HH Series anyway?
Also, he said something about after the Siege of Terra, he wants to visit stories set during the heresy but not necessarily effecting the outcome. This intrigues me.
Isn't that at least half of the books in the HH Series anyway?
Rik
It is and the reason why I lost interest in it, about 10 books in. My interest has been rekindled by Dan Abnett talking about how they realised that the lack of a feeling of narrative momentum, if you like, was a problem for some people and how that made them reconsider their approach with later books. The books of the opening trilogy of the Horus Heresy are my favourites of all the Black Library books I’ve read so, armed with the two reading order articles in the last couple of White Dwarfs, I’ve decided to give the HH another go. However, this time I’m only going to read the books that look genuinely interesting to me because life’s too short for a repeat of “Fallen Angels”.
I don't do the podcast thing so I have no idea what anyone is talking about here. But should anyone make a transcription I can read feel free to let me know.
Nor do I, but these are really interviews and quite easy to watch.
The Dan Abnett one was good - I've read Titanicus twice and really enjoyed it both times.
The first Jes Goodwin one was good, but the second one where he didn't seem to remember what half of the Primaris units were called wasn't.
Personally I find the Echoes from the Warp articles in White Dwarf more interesting and enlightening in terms of how the GW team approach writing the 40K rules.
Necromunda, Adeptus Titanicus and The Horus Heresy continue to go from strength to strength. Senior designer Mark Bedford chats about how those games have grown in recent years.
Nothing really, just more reinforcement that the remaining old Necromunda gangs are probably not going to show up any time soon, they've got other things they want to explore
and the interesting snippet that the Ambull and Ambots showing up so close together was total conincidence
), it all sounds very much like the(original?) concept was very much more a case of the existing Marines being "upgraded", mentioning how a Primaris Marine might initially wear his new MKX but after a while he'd want his favourite helmet and relic shoulderpad back and so on. We're starting to get a little bit of that aspect now with Calgar, but their initial introduction seems - assuming I'm reading what he's saying and his tone right - like it became a lot more abrupt and...dislocated? As if a bigwig somewhere along the line got nervous about giving players the idea they were replacing Marines and insisted they push the writing more towards them being a new and extra thing.
