If they first remove there shoulder pads and jetpacks, and 2 of the marines are driver and co driver.


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they store there armour under the seats in rhino


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armor ***

12 guardsmen can fit in a Valkryie.

I just want to clear that up, i wish they made the rules so atleast 1 of the 10 troops were driver

Also, 5 guardsmen can fit in a Centaur.

12 Guardsmen can fit in a chimera, too.

10 Primaris can fit in a land raider...... Grumble, grumble.

12 Tau probably can't fit in a Devilfish unless you stack them like corpses.


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But those 12 Tau will fit in a Manta.

Yeah


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No but honestly, wish they would change the rules to reflect scaling in a more accurate way but, its still fine how it is, im just saying. Just wish they would make the troops you transport also driver + turret etc etc

 Stormatious wrote:
Yeah


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No but honestly, wish they would change the rules to reflect scaling in a more accurate way but, its still fine how it is, im just saying. Just wish they would make the troops you transport also driver + turret etc etc

Why

Making rules reflect the scale of models is an exercise in absurdism as by its very nature this game is an abstraction. The models are not assumed to be to scale, just as Bolters due not suddenly have their bolts cease to exist in under a hundred feet, las bolts fizzle out at short distances, and literally no vehicles are made to any scale. And every race and vehicle have their own scales divergent from the rest of the models. The reasoning makes no sense.

10 marines can fit in a rhino if ...

You use a meltagun and then put them in the ashtray.

Well, five scouts and a pilot CAN actually fit in a Land Speeder Storm.

 Wyzilla wrote:
and literally no vehicles are made to any scale

Err, no. At least some vehicles are done at 28mm scale. For example, the Valkyrie is scaled just fine and even has a (OOP) upgrade kit with passengers to go in the seats. Same thing with a lot of the IG tanks, the guns aren't exactly realistic in barrel diameter but all of the pieces fit together internally.

Also when they are in their transport they do not have their legs wide maintaining their combat pose. Look at a small car, like a 2 door hatch-back. Two large people standing next to each other are wider than the car, but both those large people and one not so large person can fit in the back seat. I've seen it and experienced it for a 200+ km journey. It was cramped but comfortable enough.

And for perspective, IRL the m113 APC (the one that looks like a Rhino) can carry 11 passengers + 2 crew. While only being 4.8m long. And these are soldiers with packs and weapons.

I think the old rhino better looked like it could transport 10 space marines; the baluster and step on the side give the impression most of the marines transported were actually carried on the outside of the vehicle!

Scale to me is important, its not like gw thinks scale is not important other wise things wouldn't be reasonably close in scale as it is.


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 Wyzilla wrote:

 Stormatious wrote:
Yeah


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No but honestly, wish they would change the rules to reflect scaling in a more accurate way but, its still fine how it is, im just saying. Just wish they would make the troops you transport also driver + turret etc etc

Why

Making rules reflect the scale of models is an exercise in absurdism as by its very nature this game is an abstraction. The models are not assumed to be to scale, just as Bolters due not suddenly have their bolts cease to exist in under a hundred feet, las bolts fizzle out at short distances, and literally no vehicles are made to any scale. And every race and vehicle have their own scales divergent from the rest of the models. The reasoning makes no sense.

They are close enough to scale that it should be accurate.

 Stormatious wrote:
Scale to me is important, its not like gw thinks scale is not important other wise things wouldn't be reasonably close in scale as it is.


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 Wyzilla wrote:

 Stormatious wrote:
Yeah


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No but honestly, wish they would change the rules to reflect scaling in a more accurate way but, its still fine how it is, im just saying. Just wish they would make the troops you transport also driver + turret etc etc

Why

Making rules reflect the scale of models is an exercise in absurdism as by its very nature this game is an abstraction. The models are not assumed to be to scale, just as Bolters due not suddenly have their bolts cease to exist in under a hundred feet, las bolts fizzle out at short distances, and literally no vehicles are made to any scale. And every race and vehicle have their own scales divergent from the rest of the models. The reasoning makes no sense.

They are close enough to scale that it should be accurate.

No they aren't. A marine can't even fit through the damn cupola in a rhino thanks to their pauldrons, and the whole chassis would probably need to be increased in size by about 20-33% just so they could slip in without getting trapped. Nevermind that the weapon bores are all wrong. Should bolters now be S5 or S6 because the "actual" bolt size on the models is more akin to 30mm or 40mm rounds? It's a game. The whole thing is an abstraction that can be played with rocks and a soda can. The models are completely irrelevant beyond their rough size for fair LOS calling.

yeah its a game and a modeling hobby where things look pretty close to scale, im just saying 100% accurate would be nice. Lol and that picture, thats fine and all but id never have a game with some one that didn't have the proper models, and most places where a game is more strict you would need actual models, and also painted to a standard.


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and a marine can fit, he can...he just has to move his body around a bit awkardly to get in lol

 Stormatious wrote:
yeah its a game and a modeling hobby where things look pretty close to scale, im just saying 100% accurate would be nice. Lol and that picture, thats fine and all but id never have a game with some one that didn't have the proper models, and most places where a game is more strict you would need actual models, and also painted to a standard.


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and a marine can fit, he can...he just has to move his body around a bit awkardly to get in lol

Marine gunners on tanks are stuck where they are. Their Pauldrons are way too wide to fit back through into the tank!

The models are full of this kind of thing. The vehicles have mostly always been a different scale to the infantry.

He gets in from the toooooopppp jeeeeeeeezzz


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Or the sides open up a bit so he can slide back in


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Which they do dont they?

there are seats i the rhino and the rest can stand.

Dont play Bolt Action then! The vehicles, esp the smaller ones look like toys next to the infantry!

Mostly happy with the relative size ion 40k, it could be better but it does not break my imersion.

 Techpriestsupport wrote:
there are seats i the rhino and the rest can stand.

Yes, there are seats. But a marine trying to sit in one doesn't actuality have enough headroom, or anywhere for his backpack to go, and the standing room is likewise too short for marines.

I tried converting a cutaway rhino a few years back, which was intended to have marines inside to show that it could be done, and when it got to positioning models in there it very quickly began apparent that it actually couldn't.

The only way to get 10 of them in the current rhino is to stack them in there like firewood.

Didn't someone work out that some Marines scrunch up on the sides and the rest are stacked in the middle of the passenger area? Like cans of food.

 insaniak wrote:

Yes, there are seats. But a marine trying to sit in one doesn't actuality have enough headroom, or anywhere for his backpack to go, and the standing room is likewise too short for marines.

I tried converting a cutaway rhino a few years back, which was intended to have marines inside to show that it could be done, and when it got to positioning models in there it very quickly began apparent that it actually couldn't.

The only way to get 10 of them in the current rhino is to stack them in there like firewood.

remember they would remove helmets and jetpacks mabey even shoulder pads first but i dont know where they would store them... but yeah scale is pretty close so its no big deal but yeah lol

Vehicles have never been to scale, the land raider should be twice as big as it is, the Spartan should be four times the size.

Still think it's a missed opportunity that there isn't a clown car stratagem for Harlequins.

1 CP. Use on a Starweaver before the battle (only once per battle if you like). That starweaver can now transport a full unit of 12 Harequins

After the first few posts, I thought this was going to devolve into a 40k 12 days of Christmas; missed opportunity.

20 lascannons on tripods, with two crew each, can fire from the back of a Stormlord.

On the far end of the realism scale, 50 men actually can fit in the Gorgon heavy transporter. They even used to sell sets of models to go inside it.

hobojebus wrote:
Vehicles have never been to scale, the land raider should be twice as big as it is, the Spartan should be four times the size.

No.

pm713 wrote:
Didn't someone work out that some Marines scrunch up on the sides and the rest are stacked in the middle of the passenger area? Like cans of food.

It's in one of the older Imperial Armour books. 3 Marines sitting on each side, 3 standing down the middle, sergeant up front with the driver.

I have seen ten old metal marines modelled inside the old rhino. It seems incredible, but they did fit.

 Stormatious wrote:
He gets in from the toooooopppp jeeeeeeeezzz


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Or the sides open up a bit so he can slide back in


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Which they do dont they?

The same hatch is used on many vehicles, there generally are no side hatches to them to extend the opening. It just doesn't make sense sorry!

A big part of the problem is that the human form in 40k is skewed. They call it "heroic scale". What that basically means is people are much broader than real life, with bigger heads. Take a picture of a Guardsman model and scale it up to the same height as a real person side by side and you'll see what I mean!

This effects vehicles too. Because all the people are misproportioned it means either vehicles also would have to be weirdly proportioned to fit them, or they simply don't make sense relative to the infantry. If Guardsmen and Marines were proportioned properly, they'd have no problem at all fitting in a Chimera or Rhino.

 Stux wrote:


A big part of the problem is that the human form in 40k is skewed. They call it "heroic scale". What that basically means is people are much broader than real life, with bigger heads. Take a picture of a Guardsman model and scale it up to the same height as a real person side by side and you'll see what I mean!

This effects vehicles too. Because all the people are misproportioned it means either vehicles also would have to be weirdly proportioned to fit them, or they simply don't make sense relative to the infantry. If Guardsmen and Marines were proportioned properly, they'd have no problem at all fitting in a Chimera or Rhino.

Yes. This causes the impression that the vehicles are too small. But if you ignore the heroic scaling and just measure the height of the models, they're not.

Have you seen the scaling on reivers? They're all over the place. The drawn knives don't fit the scabbards and the pistols don't fit in the holsters. The grapnel launchers are about a third their usual size when holstered. It's a mess. The tanks are a different scale to the models anyway and the astartes sticking out the top hatches look almost comical.

I've yet to see a weapon in 40K that fits it's holster or scabbard that is not in said pistol of scabbard.

Big guns look cool in hand. They look daft when holstered.

Heroic scale is very good for GW, comparing their minis to Inifinity the Infinity models’ weapons seem very puny.


Everyone in the thread knows that the squad’s sergeant does sit in the rhinos command seat, right? He’s the commander of the unit.

pelicaniforce wrote:
Heroic scale is very good for GW, comparing their minis to Inifinity the Infinity models’ weapons seem very puny.


Everyone in the thread knows that the squad’s sergeant does sit in the rhinos command seat, right? He’s the commander of the unit.

I don't really have a problem with using heroic scaling. It looks cool, and that's more important to me than it making sense in a game like this!

10 modern Marines can fit in a Rhino - if they dieted. My RT minis fit fine.

 Crimson wrote:

hobojebus wrote:
Vehicles have never been to scale, the land raider should be twice as big as it is, the Spartan should be four times the size.

No.

That's not an argument.

Matora wrote:
Have you seen the scaling on reivers? They're all over the place. The drawn knives don't fit the scabbards and the pistols don't fit in the holsters. The grapnel launchers are about a third their usual size when holstered. It's a mess. The tanks are a different scale to the models anyway and the astartes sticking out the top hatches look almost comical.

Terminators are one of the biggest offenders!

hobojebus wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

hobojebus wrote:
Vehicles have never been to scale, the land raider should be twice as big as it is, the Spartan should be four times the size.

No.

That's not an argument.

Neither is making up baseless nonsense. Technical specifications of the vehicles, including dimensions, appear in the Forgeworld books, and the pretty much match the model scale.

hobojebus wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

hobojebus wrote:
Vehicles have never been to scale, the land raider should be twice as big as it is, the Spartan should be four times the size.

No.

That's not an argument.

I assume he disagrees with you and thinks vehicles are correct scale. Let me just say this, i dont know about other vehicles for other factions etc, but i do know that 10 marines can efficiently fit in to a rhino providing 2 or 3 sit up at the front as driver/codriver, just look birds eye view at a rhino and a space marine, take his shoulder pads away and his spread leg pose, and every thing will be fine.


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 Crimson wrote:

hobojebus wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

hobojebus wrote:
Vehicles have never been to scale, the land raider should be twice as big as it is, the Spartan should be four times the size.

No.

That's not an argument.

Neither is making up baseless nonsense. Technical specifications of the vehicles, including dimensions, appear in the Forgeworld books, and the pretty much match the model scale.

Yeah dude i personally am starting to feel every thing is scaled correctly. And that person who posted terminator piocture with guy inside of it, are you remembering that extra space is thicker armour???


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thats why hes a damn terminator not a little space marine


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lol

 Crimson wrote:

hobojebus wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

hobojebus wrote:
Vehicles have never been to scale, the land raider should be twice as big as it is, the Spartan should be four times the size.

No.

That's not an argument.

Neither is making up baseless nonsense. Technical specifications of the vehicles, including dimensions, appear in the Forgeworld books, and the pretty much match the model scale.

Then prey tell when the Spartan and Landraider are so similar in model size, how does the Spartan carry 25 to the raiders 10?

 Stux wrote:

 Stormatious wrote:
He gets in from the toooooopppp jeeeeeeeezzz


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Or the sides open up a bit so he can slide back in


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Which they do dont they?

The same hatch is used on many vehicles, there generally are no side hatches to them to extend the opening. It just doesn't make sense sorry!

A big part of the problem is that the human form in 40k is skewed. They call it "heroic scale". What that basically means is people are much broader than real life, with bigger heads. Take a picture of a Guardsman model and scale it up to the same height as a real person side by side and you'll see what I mean!

This effects vehicles too. Because all the people are misproportioned it means either vehicles also would have to be weirdly proportioned to fit them, or they simply don't make sense relative to the infantry. If Guardsmen and Marines were proportioned properly, they'd have no problem at all fitting in a Chimera or Rhino.

What makes you think the heroic scale peoples vehicles are human scale :S.

 Stormatious wrote:

 Stux wrote:

 Stormatious wrote:
He gets in from the toooooopppp jeeeeeeeezzz


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Or the sides open up a bit so he can slide back in


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Which they do dont they?

The same hatch is used on many vehicles, there generally are no side hatches to them to extend the opening. It just doesn't make sense sorry!

A big part of the problem is that the human form in 40k is skewed. They call it "heroic scale". What that basically means is people are much broader than real life, with bigger heads. Take a picture of a Guardsman model and scale it up to the same height as a real person side by side and you'll see what I mean!

This effects vehicles too. Because all the people are misproportioned it means either vehicles also would have to be weirdly proportioned to fit them, or they simply don't make sense relative to the infantry. If Guardsmen and Marines were proportioned properly, they'd have no problem at all fitting in a Chimera or Rhino.

What makes you think the heroic scale peoples vehicles are human scale :S.

They aren't, but they also don't fit Heroic scale guys properly either. They're a weird Inbetween!

I dont know if your correct, but im gonna pretend you're wrong.


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Or assume lol


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We do know this, Models with the Person visibly attached to the vehicle the scale is correct. Then we can put that model next to other models of the faction and you can easily conclude scale is correct.


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I think... ijm not 100% sure

I disagree. Just because a person is attached to the vehicle doesn't mean they are scaled correctly. It could just as well mean ttheyve been sculpted with incorrect scale. Likely because accurate scaling is lower priority to the studio team than looking good.

So you dont think space marine bikes are scaled right?

 Stormatious wrote:
So you dont think space marine bikes are scaled right?

Define right? They are heroic scale so they aren't realistic. Relative scale between the vehicle and the guy? They aren't so bad compared to transports.

 Crimson wrote:
I have seen ten old metal marines modelled inside the old rhino. It seems incredible, but they did fit.

The old rhino kit actually had more space inside (due to not having a fully modelled interior to start with, but most importantly had significantly more headroom despite actually being smaller overall - and the guy that did that used landspeeder crew without backpacks, so it was slightly fudged.

 Stux wrote:

 Stormatious wrote:
So you dont think space marine bikes are scaled right?

Define right? They are heroic scale so they aren't realistic. Relative scale between the vehicle and the guy? They aren't so bad compared to transports.

Obviously there not realistic as in human because they are "heroic" and not human :S if thats what you mean

For a motorbike, Marine bikes are ridiculously huge. As a Space Marine fashion statement, they fit the bill, though.

They're a different kettle of squig to the tanks, though, which are all undersized compared to the infantry. I would disagree with the calls for them to be twice as large (APCs generally aren't designed to be roomy) but it would have been nice if they had at least been large enough for marines to actually fit inside.

And no, slotting yourself into a hatch from the outside, with no way of actually getting yourself inside the tank from the waist up, is not really a viable thing. To avoid having to make tank hatches any larger, they would have been better off putting vehicle crew into something more akin to scout or reiver armour.

oh god, just change the number on the dang codex to 4 marines for each rhino, problem solved no model redesign needed


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Well has any one seen official gw art work reflecting a different scale compared to models?


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like a picture of 10 guys waving from inside the rhino lol

 Stormatious wrote:
oh god, just change the number on the dang codex to 4 marines for each rhino, problem solved no model redesign needed


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Well has any one seen official gw art work reflecting a different scale compared to models?


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like a picture of 10 guys waving from inside the rhino lol

There is a John Blanche of a Land Raider and that tank is freaking huge.

At the end of the day any one can argu weather its correct or not scale with lots of random reasons so what ever lol


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English is my first language btw

Nuts to butts, private.

 Luciferian wrote:
Nuts to butts, private.

Cant figure that out, some thing to do with how marines sit in rhino?? lol

It's what you're told by your NCOs when you're cramming into a transport vehicle that doesn't seem like it should be carrying the number of soldiers that it is.

so that solves this whole thing then.

Yep, get to know your buddies.

im human man, i dont hang with super human space marines, if i was id just sit on the roof honestly.

You're taking me too literally, haha.

 Stormatious wrote:
so that solves this whole thing then.

I just think trying to find any consistent sense in all this is a futile cause. It's fantasy in space after all, just try not to think about it too much!

 Stormatious wrote:
oh god, just change the number on the dang codex to 4 marines for each rhino, problem solved no model redesign needed

Unless they're laying down in there, it doesn't actually fix it at all. Again, the space is physically too short for space marines.

They shouldn't be standing inside the APC. They should be sitting, and sitting very tightly. A space marine sitting down would have ample headroom, topknots and headdresses notwithstanding..

You can definitely fit 6 in two rows of 3 very comfortably with legroom, headroom, and elbow room.

You can almost certainly fit 3 rows of 3. The issue is the shoulder pads, which seem to prevent a whole 4th marine from fitting inside besides the others in each row.

You have to stand, or at least crouch, to get in and out.

hobojebus wrote:Vehicles have never been to scale, the land raider should be twice as big as it is, the Spartan should be four times the size.

it should be;

Rhino = should be M2 Bradley size but it's clearly M113.
Pred = should be M60, more like the M551(sizewise)
Repulsor = should be a slightly larger Stryker, more like M2
Baneblade/Fellblade/Astreaus = I would suspect the real size to be massive. There probably isn't a real world analog other than the Tortise or elephant. I've stood next to everything except the super heavies, and while I'm 2m tall I look small compared to all of them(except maybe the m113). I could imagine them to be much, much larger. So since marines are supposed to be approx 1ft taller than I am the scale doesnt even come close to making sense.

The interior space probably isn't as far off as you might think, though. When you've been inside a Bradley or Stryker with a full combat load on and the rest of your fire team beside you, marines fitting in a rhino doesn't seem quite as absurd (though obviously it's still out of scale overall).

Problem is less the internal volume, though its going to be tight however you look at it, more the size of the hatches, and thats all down to the "heroic" scale stuff already noted.

However the solution is simple, ten marines will obviously fit if you slice them thinly enough.

and with care, there will be some left over for boxing day

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
They shouldn't be standing inside the APC. They should be sitting, and sitting very tightly. A space marine sitting down would have ample headroom, topknots and headdresses notwithstanding..

Except, as I already pointed out, they don't. I've tried.

Racerguy180 wrote:

it should be;

Rhino = should be M2 Bradley size but it's clearly M113.
Pred = should be M60, more like the M551(sizewise)
Repulsor = should be a slightly larger Stryker, more like M2
Baneblade/Fellblade/Astreaus = I would suspect the real size to be massive. There probably isn't a real world analog other than the Tortise or elephant. I've stood next to everything except the super heavies, and while I'm 2m tall I look small compared to all of them(except maybe the m113). I could imagine them to be much, much larger. So since marines are supposed to be approx 1ft taller than I am the scale doesnt even come close to making sense.

M113:
Length: 4.86 metres
Width: 2.7 metres
Height: 2.5 metres

M2 Bradley:
Length: 6.55 metres
Width: 3.6 metres
Height: 3 metres

Forgeworld Dimensions for the Rhino (accurate to the model size.):
Length: 6.6 metres
Width: 4.5 metres
Height: 3.6 metres

Sorry, you're completely off. Rhino is quite a big bigger than M2 Bradley, Repulsor is about the size of Panzer VIII Maus.

... The blood ravens kindly remove the engines and fuels storage to make room for them.

Its not suppose to be necessarily like perfectly comfortable, so you can expect that they might have to have there heads and shoulder hunched down alittle bit. I dont know why you guys are comparing to real life tanks, these are not humans they made there own design own size for own reason.


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Space marines for all we know, prefer compact spaces.... we dont really know for sure


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UNless its written some where in gw

10 Space marines can fit in a Rhino if....
...the entrance is a blender. Liquified, I suspect they would all fit

Why do you have to be ridiculous ;P


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You know what, let me take a picture and show some proof.

Actauly it seems my calculations were off this whole time, looks like 19 marines can fit in pretty easy if you remove shoulder pads ....


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I put a circle around where his body is if you remove jet pack and shoulder pads


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so 10 marines can fit in EASY and dont even need to remove any thing off them selves.


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Case solved, every things accurate and perfect.


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I mean its not 100% accurate but still accurate enough

IOW, 19 marines can fit if you remove half their volume (and have nowhere to put it, so those marines are showing up to battle with no shoulder pads or backpacks) and put marines inside the tracks/engine/etc as if the Rhino is an infinitely-tall empty box covering its entire footprint. I'm not sure why you think this ridiculous argument is helping your case.

Extremely inaccurate I would say! First they need to be sitting, so they would probably be double the size when viewed from above. Second, where do all the mechanisms of the tank go? Engine especially. 10 without Pauldrons MAY be possible, but it will be extremely tight.

 Stormatious wrote:

I put a circle around where his body is if you remove jet pack and shoulder pads

They don't have jetpacks. They have backpacks that contain the power for their armour. If they remove their backpacks, how do they move?

And why on earth would they remove their shoulder pads?


And it still overlooks the fact that they don't have enough room vertically, as well as ignoring the actual interior detailing on the rhino kit. The passenger compartment doesn't fill the rhino's entire footprint.

no you're all wrong ill explain after eating food.


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19 was just more of an example, but using that number you can see 10 can fit easily with plenty of room to store backpacks + shoulder pads, and vertical room is not that important they would probly all be sitting, and 10 can sit and fit as you see in that picture.


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There shoulder pads can be attatched easily, why not remove them and put them underseats or some thing


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no big deal, they are inside a rhino after all they dont need em on


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AND did any one ever think that the turret gunner of a rhino will probably put his arms in the air to decrease the radius of his shoulder pads so he can slide back in?


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Not just slide it with his arms as they are currently positiioned

 Stormatious wrote:
you can see 10 can fit easily with plenty of room to store backpacks + shoulder pads

Only because you're ignoring things like the engine, tracks, etc, and acting like the Rhino's entire footprint is a hollow box that can hold marines.

and vertical room is not that important they would probly all be sitting

Then you can't use the standing footprint for a marine. Sitting means that their legs and arms are going to stick out more and take up more horizontal room.

There shoulder pads can be attatched easily, why not remove them and put them underseats or some thing

no big deal, they are inside a rhino after all they dont need em on

Because there's no room for them? Because you don't want to have to be putting armor pieces back on as you try to disembark in the middle of a battle? Because the backpacks contain the power supply for their armor and can't be removed without shutting it down?


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 Stormatious wrote:
AND did any one ever think that the turret gunner of a rhino will probably put his arms in the air to decrease the radius of his shoulder pads so he can slide back in?

Of course we thought about it, it just doesn't work. There is no pose that allows the gunner to be narrow enough to fit down that hole.

True i did forget about tracks etc, so ill have to re examine this. Now as for removing armour etc, i would assume the first marine gets inside and quickly detatches shoulder pads and then the next one follows etc, so there not all standin outside takin stuff off. Any way let me check this out again.


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thats perfect, and they could stand in a zip line so theres even more room.

 Stormatious wrote:
Why do you have to be ridiculous ;P


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You know what, let me take a picture and show some proof.

What i showed you proof.

It's kind of funny to see some may people going on about the rhino scale yet being perfectly ok with the leman Russ barrell being big enough for a guardsman to crawl down or pistols being well over a foot long.

This is not earth, or humans, why would there pistols have the be same as earths size?

 Stormatious wrote:
True i did forget about tracks etc, so ill have to re examine this. Now as for removing armour etc, i would assume the first marine gets inside and quickly detatches shoulder pads and then the next one follows etc, so there not all standin outside takin stuff off. Any way let me check this out again.


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thats perfect, and they could stand in a zip line so theres even more room.

Still not going to work. You forgot about the driver's compartment.

They're obviously built with warp technology similar to a TARDIS.

NO, the driver is there on the front right, and it works how does it not.

 Stormatious wrote:

thats perfect, and they could stand in a zip line so theres even more room.

They

Can

Not

Stand

Inside.



Seriously, how many times do I need to point this out? They do not fit.

Dude they don't stand straight up, they have there heads down a little bit, as i said its no luxury ride, honestly most apcs and stuff if you stand up straight ur head is usually pointed downwards slightly because the head room...


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Hows that hard to understand, i dont get it.

 Stormatious wrote:
What i showed you proof.

No, you showed that if you disregard vertical dimensions and chop off half of a marine's volume you can fit 10 pictures of marines in the footprint of a Rhino. Seriously, people have tried to do this with actual models and it does not work.

no, i removed backpacks and shoulder pads, i said they will have to be hunched down a little bit, or mabey just there heads tilted downwards a little bit which is perfectly realistic, and they would stand more in a zip formation inside tank giving even more room, just think about it..and i put too much space between most of those guys if you look closely...

 Stormatious wrote:
This is not earth, or humans, why would there pistols have the be same as earths size?

I dunno, maybe because pistols that huge would be virtually impossible for a human to weild, draw or aim with any sort of speed or effectiveness.

 Techpriestsupport wrote:

 Stormatious wrote:
This is not earth, or humans, why would there pistols have the be same as earths size?

I dunno, maybe because pistols that huge would be virtually impossible for a human to weild, draw or aim with any sort of speed or effectiveness.

Thats why space marines are not human.


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They're super


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Bigger bodies, more strength etc

 Techpriestsupport wrote:

 Stormatious wrote:
This is not earth, or humans, why would there pistols have the be same as earths size?

I dunno, maybe because pistols that huge would be virtually impossible for a human to weild, draw or aim with any sort of speed or effectiveness.

Nah man, its a space fantasy, there are space ships and stuff so human can definitely fire a 155mm pistol with no problems. /s

Itcs not just marines with huge pistols. Normal humans sometimes carry laughably sized pistols too. All this bitching about a rhino carrying 10 spess muhreens while therecs so many other scale issues in 40k...

The rhino can be an example for all, its fine.


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Either way this is just useless chatter, i provided visual evidence, and unless some one else can give me better evidence then...


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I am winning the debate.

 Stormatious wrote:
no, i removed backpacks and shoulder pads, i said they will have to be hunched down a little bit, or mabey just there heads tilted downwards a little bit which is perfectly realistic, and they would stand more in a zip formation inside tank giving even more room, just think about it..and i put too much space between most of those guys if you look closely...

Again, you need more than just a bit of a head tilt. They need to be crouched down significantly, which means taking up more horizontal space. And you can't remove the backpacks because then they can't move in their armor.

Fortunately we can end this speculation because FW makes a command Rhino with an interior and crew. Notice how much space just two marines take up, and how close their heads are to the ceiling even in a seated pose. You are not fitting 10 marines in that space in any reasonable manner.

god well my rhino doesn't have hat control center, it has seats in that area. Well do you think they should have scale reflect number of troops allowed in?

 Stormatious wrote:
god well my rhino doesn't have hat control center, it has seats in that area.

Yes, which gives more horizontal space. The point is the vertical space, even in a fully seated pose their heads are just barely below the ceiling. You can't just have the passengers duck their heads a bit and fit, they're going to be crawling into their seats and having to stay seated. And that means a much larger horizontal footprint per marine than your diagrams, on top of needing to find space for their backpacks and shoulder pads.

Well do you think they should have scale reflect number of troops allowed in?

No, because the model is not to scale and a 10-model transport capacity is required for gameplay reasons since that's the size of the squad they're meant to transport.

Then they can all kneel.


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Dude i don't know. I guess its better to imagine.

 Stormatious wrote:
Then they can all kneel.

Which means a larger horizontal footprint. Seriously, why are you so stubborn about this even when you've seen the pictures proving that it can't be done?

Or we all complain to gw


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Joking


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 Peregrine wrote:

 Stormatious wrote:
Then they can all kneel.

Which means a larger horizontal footprint. Seriously, why are you so stubborn about this even when you've seen the pictures proving that it can't be done?

I cant share the image because its mine, but if you google search rhino 40k birds eye view, you will see a blue rhino with some guys inside of it ok, from there you can easily see they can fit. Now look, yes the room verticaly is tight, but you know that sort of kneeling position with one knee to the ground and one hand on the floor, sort of like a professional runners starting pose, but more relaxed.








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and thats perfectly fine, they obviously wanted to make rhinos as small as possible to reduce its battlefield footprint


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And for all we know they lay flat on top of each other, they prefer to have uncomfortable seating positions rather then having big ass target that can more easily get hit on battle field..


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Just compare for e.g a bike handle grip with an area of the rhino, and you can see from there scale is fine so you can make the calculations that every things fine.


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Or they can sit on floor with arms tightly around legs so they are keeping legs close to body and also reducing shoulder size due to there arms wrapping around there knees infront of them


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sort of like a is it called fetal position?


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WHICH MAKES SENCE, because that position will protect them better if the rhino gets hit.


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THERE Solved

 Stormatious wrote:
I cant share the image because its mine, but if you google search rhino 40k birds eye view, you will see a blue rhino with some guys inside of it ok

Of course you can share it. Please link this, since I don't see anything on google image search that in any way supports your claim.

Now look, yes the room verticaly is tight, but you know that sort of kneeling position with one knee to the ground and one hand on the floor, sort of like a professional runners starting pose, but more relaxed.

Again, this does not work. A kneeling runner's pose like that is saving vertical space, but makes the marine take up a lot more horizontal space. Your image of the 10 marines "fitting" requires them to be in straight up standing poses to minimize their horizontal footprint. Try that with a marine in a kneeling pose and then add in space for the backpack and shoulder pads and you'll find that you aren't getting 10 marines anymore.

they obviously wanted to make rhinos as small as possible to reduce its battlefield footprint

Or to save costs on the kit. Making it less than 28mm scale lets it fit onto a smaller sprue size (important when you have a standard sprue and box size already), and most people don't care enough about the scale difference to stop buying.

And for all we know they lay flat on top of each other, they prefer to have uncomfortable seating positions rather then having big ass target that can more easily get hit on battle field..

Yes, it is entirely plausible that space marines are stacked like corpses in the back of a Rhino. I suppose they have dedicated servitors (obviously carried in a second Rhino) to carry them out, since stacking like that would prevent normal movement? Do they politely ask everyone to stop shooting at them while they unload the cargo and reconnect the backpacks so the marines can start moving?

Omg just looking at your picture that makes so much sence, sort of like in real life when an airplane is going to crash and people have to take that sort of position, and remember most rhinos iv ever seen have seats where your control center is, which i asume can easily flip upwards.

You have got to be kidding. Seriously, marines stacked up in the fetal position? Can we lock this pointless thread yet?

FETAL POSTION!!!! LIKE WHEN AIRPLANE EMERGENCY AND YOUR GOING TO CRASH. MAKES SENCE IT PROTECTS THEM IN AN INVENT THE RHINO GETS HIT!!!, they keep there LEGS AND FEET CLOSE TO THERE BODY BECAUSE THERE BOTH ARMS ARE HOLDING IT IN, THEREFORE ALSO REDUCING SHOULDER SPACE.


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STACKED? who said stacked, there side by side


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Its not pointless you have not dis-proven me, my theory carries weight.


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some on sides some in middle all in tight little balls keeping them selves protected

there

Ok, I'm done with this, have your delusion. I've shown you the picture of why the models don't fit, other people have told you that making Rhino passengers has been tried in the past and 10 marines will not fit in the current Rhino kit, and now you're at the point of talking about hauling a bunch of marines curled up in the fetal position to maximize packing density. No amount of evidence is going to get you to accept reality, or accomplish anything besides letting you spam this thread and increase your post count.

Oh FFS, you even posted a picture of two marines taking up way more than 20% of the space in a Rhino, proving my point. Yeah, I'm done with this nonsense.

NOw imagine them sitting in tight balls on floor to protect them selves for the rough terrain and incase of damage.


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 Peregrine wrote:
Ok, I'm done with this, have your delusion. I've shown you the picture of why the models don't fit, other people have told you that making Rhino passengers has been tried in the past and 10 marines will not fit in the current Rhino kit, and now you're at the point of talking about hauling a bunch of marines curled up in the fetal position to maximize packing density. No amount of evidence is going to get you to accept reality, or accomplish anything besides letting you spam this thread and increase your post count.

Oh FFS, you even posted a picture of two marines taking up way more than 20% of the space in a Rhino, proving my point. Yeah, I'm done with this nonsense.

They would be sitting in tight balls...


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To protect them selves for the rough terrain and damage


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Fetal position, not stacked, sidebyside..

 Stormatious wrote:
NOw imagine them sitting in tight balls on floor...

Easy enough. It's what I suspect everyone reading this thread is doing by now.


Time to move on.