Warhammer Community wrote:
If you thought your hard-bitten kill teams of covert operatives were elite specialists within their field, you’d be right. However, if you think they’re the best of the best, think again! Get ready to take your game to the next level with Kill Team: Elites.
This hotly-anticipated expansion brings some of the heaviest hitters in the Warhammer 40,000 universe to the skirmish battlefield, from Chaos Terminators and snazzgun-toting Flash Gitz to the towering Wraithguard of the Aeldari and the legendary warriors of the Custodian Guard! And if that wasn’t exciting enough already, there are also powerful new Commanders – including a nigh-unkillable Lord of Contagion and T’au Commander in VX85 Enforcer Battlesuit – as well as some legendary operatives in the form of Boss Snikrot, Illic Nightspear and Sly Marbo!
Oh, and did we mention all the awesome new sub-faction rules such as Chapter Tactics, Drukhari Obsessions and Cult Creeds?
If you’re looking to jump right into this new expansion, there are three new Kill Team sets, each boasting a famed – and highly elite – kill team, with their own background, skills and equipment (though you can also build them as you see fit to make your own kill team). These first three Elite kill teams are the Flash Gitz of Toofrippa’s Krew, the Death Guard Terminators of the Dolorous Strain, and the Thousand Sons Scarab Occult Terminators known as the Fractal Blades.
Spoiler:
March 17th:
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Early this week the upcoming Elites expansion for Kill Team was announced at GAMA:
Not only will this add rules for units like Wraith Guard, Terminators, Mandrakes, Striking Scorpions or the new Vanguard Primaris, they also added a new kill team faction: the Adeptus Custodes.
Someone on Reddit did some CSI on the rotating manual in the video and zoomed in on the text on the back:
For those that don't read Blur, it reads out to:
Kill Team Elites contains all the rules required to reinforce your kill team with an array of special operatives, lone hunters and new heroes. It also presents missions designed to (field) these forces in open, narrative and matched play, along with new tactics and sub-faction abilities.
So, hopefully this means you can give your Space Marine kill team some Blood Angels Red Thirst or your Ork Blood Axes some Taktiks.
Kill-Team is GW's "resource-lite" game. Aside from the new terrain, it has done nothing but use existing miniatures or miniatures that were going to be released for other lines anyway (like Mr. Gunshooter Hybrid dude).
Existing new kits for a KT release is mightily optimistic given the releases so far.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Kill-Team is GW's "resource-lite" game. Aside from the new terrain, it has done nothing but use existing miniatures or miniatures that were going to be released for other lines anyway (like Mr. Gunshooter Hybrid dude).
Existing new kits for a KT release is mightily optimistic given the releases so far.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Kill-Team is GW's "resource-lite" game. Aside from the new terrain, it has done nothing but use existing miniatures or miniatures that were going to be released for other lines anyway (like Mr. Gunshooter Hybrid dude).
Existing new kits for a KT release is mightily optimistic given the releases so far.
Apart from Rogue Trader.
Wasn't that tech priest manipulus and hybrid commander also both made for kill Team?
zedmeister wrote: Wasn't that tech priest manipulus and hybrid commander also both made for kill Team?
Made for Kill-Team? I seriously doubt that. They were made for their respective armies but made good test cases to get people to buy Comamnder + Kill-Team boxes. Gotta give them an incentive to buy, and what better way that to give Malibu Stacy a new hat?
When it's the AdMech's turn in the sun again you can get Mr. Steepled Fingers will get a clampack release. I'm honestly surprised the Gunfighter hasn't had one.
Ah yes, good point. I forgot about them. They're an oddity however. Virtually everything has been repackaged existing models, which makes sense from a resourcing perspective.
Ah yes, good point. I forgot about them. They're an oddity however. Virtually everything has been repackaged existing models, which makes sense from a resourcing perspective.
That's mostly true of the KT line, but the Rogue Trader teams seem to indicate they are not too much against putting some additional resources into it. Given that stuff like ratlings, aspects and the like are already useful and useable with 40k as-is (the RT teams are to... sorta. I mean, they released rules for them and all, but the "no model, no rule" directive hampers them way too much), it might just be a way of justifying spending resources on them.
Of course, if they also make dual-purpose sprues with some new units/loadouts, it could be even easier to justify...
H.B.M.C. wrote: Kill-Team? I seriously doubt that. They were made for their respective armies but made good test cases to get people to buy Comamnder + Kill-Team boxes. Gotta give them an incentive to buy, and what better way that to give Malibu Stacy a new hat?
When it's the AdMech's turn in the sun again you can get Mr. Steepled Fingers will get a clampack release. I'm honestly surprised the Gunfighter hasn't had one.
Why not? You can't have it both ways and we've got no evidence otherwise. They've been out, what, 4-6 months now with no sign of them making their way to 40k as yet. It's possible that they will at some point, doesn't mean that that is what they were intended for.
So you think that when GW made all the individual GSC single characters, they made one who was't part of that batch and that they figured, hey, while we're at it, let's write some 40K rules for him?
H.B.M.C. wrote: So you think that when GW made all the individual GSC single characters, they made one who was't part of that batch and that they figured, hey, while we're at it, let's write some 40K rules for him?
Occam's Razor.
Or they made that together with the Tech Priest on its own specifically for Kill Team. They did it for Rogue Trader, did it for those two, so why not produce a few more kits for Kill Team in future?
It usually takes a bit longer than that for characters included as part of a box to come out separately; the Assassins (unless you think they were designed for the Execution Force boardgame and their use in 40k was secondary? ), the Space Wolf lieutenant and big 'stealer cult chap, etc.
From what's been mentioned of the design process, minis aren't designed for any particular game in the 40k setting; they're all designed "for 40k"; whether that manifests itself as being released in a boxed game, a 40k expansion like Shadowspire, or a standalone release like the other Genestealer cult characters.
Take the Rogue Trader minis, for example; it's possible we got those for Kill Team (and then Blackstone Fortress and Combat Arena) because the rules writers decided that was the best place to put a small selection of miniatures, rather than trying to crowbar them into 40k without a full faction behind them.
zedmeister wrote: Or they made that together with the Tech Priest on its own specifically for Kill Team. They did it for Rogue Trader, did it for those two, so why not produce a few more kits for Kill Team in future?
Again: Occam's Razor.
The simplest solution is more often the correct one. Two choices: Them designing all the GSC characters at once or them designing all the GSC characters at once except one that was separate and special for some reason.
And like AndrewGPaul said: Do you think the Assassins were made for Execution Force and then they figured ah what the hell, let's release 'em for 40k!
I just hope the new Vanguard Primaris aren't 100% elites. The Eliminators for sure, they seem pretty elite, but the Infiltrators should be just standard troops imo.
The simplest solution is more often the correct one. Two choices: Them designing all the GSC characters at once or them designing all the GSC characters at once except one that was separate and special for some reason.
And like AndrewGPaul said: Do you think the Assassins were made for Execution Force and then they figured ah what the hell, let's release 'em for 40k!
I'll concede you have a point with the Hybrid considering the releases with the Cult Codex were all close together (and the fact that it has 2016 on the sprue). But, as said, for Rogue Trader and the Tech Priest, they were produced specifically for Kill Team.
Edit: Just to argue further, why is there a Tech Priest (2019 sprue Copyright, so a pretty recent product) with no other AdMech releases rumoured (that we know about) or recently released? If we get a raft of new AdMech releases in the coming months, you have a point. But, with the information we have, the simplest explanation is the AdMech character, and especially Rogue Trader, was produced specifically for Kill Team.
zedmeister wrote: Or they made that together with the Tech Priest on its own specifically for Kill Team. They did it for Rogue Trader, did it for those two, so why not produce a few more kits for Kill Team in future?
Again: Occam's Razor.
The simplest solution is more often the correct one. Two choices: Them designing all the GSC characters at once or them designing all the GSC characters at once except one that was separate and special for some reason.
And like AndrewGPaul said: Do you think the Assassins were made for Execution Force and then they figured ah what the hell, let's release 'em for 40k!
The theory is not that they were designed solely for kill team or execution force or such, but that the designers were told they had the resources to make x clampack characters for the cult release, but they wanted to make x +1 so they took the extra and said, hey we have an idea for some quick and easy kill teams that would tie into the new release and the kt starter, and then were allowed to make that extra gsc character and an admech one as part of a kt branded release.
Same thing with blackstone fortress. Its doubtful there would be a business reason to make a plastic crusader, or a second loadout of a techpriest enginseer as part of a 40k release, but add in a rogue trader and a simple box game, and now they are given the resources to do those and a primaris psyker and servitor too.
Ah yes, good point. I forgot about them. They're an oddity however. Virtually everything has been repackaged existing models, which makes sense from a resourcing perspective.
What about the other Rogue Trader and her posse? A single servitor with non-standard gun or admech guy with new gear also aren't that useful in 40K without completely new datasheets.
Irbis wrote: What about the other Rogue Trader and her posse? A single servitor with non-standard gun or admech guy with new gear also aren't that useful in 40K without completely new datasheets.
Given that the current datasheets are basically 40K datasheets, which is probably the only way to add that many units in one go, I'm expecting the new elite units to follow that trend.
And that leaves me worried about the sub-faction rules. The ones in 40K are pretty bad in general, as the internal balance is non-existent and they're usually not that original. I fear the KT versions will be mostly identical (expect the cover/-1 to hit which have to be treated differently in KT).
What I would like to see are things that build upon KT's original concepts, like rules that allow you to have duplicate specialists or larger rosters, especially if it comes with drawbacks (can have 2 snipers or 2 demolition, but no comms).
Whether a model is for 40k or Kill Team is effectively meaningless for anything other than marketing; what it does do is give GW an excuse to do "a model here or there" releases instead of committing to completely revamping a line every time they want to add something that isn't a Loyalist Marine by putting it in a Kill Team box. That is pretty much what the AdMech dude was.
zedmeister wrote: Wasn't that tech priest manipulus and hybrid commander also both made for kill Team?
Made for Kill-Team? I seriously doubt that. They were made for their respective armies but made good test cases to get people to buy Comamnder + Kill-Team boxes. Gotta give them an incentive to buy, and what better way that to give Malibu Stacy a new hat?
When it's the AdMech's turn in the sun again you can get Mr. Steepled Fingers will get a clampack release. I'm honestly surprised the Gunfighter hasn't had one.
Ah yes, good point. I forgot about them. They're an oddity however. Virtually everything has been repackaged existing models, which makes sense from a resourcing perspective.
110% agreement on all counts. Why buy a $25.00 single model when you can buy the same one for $40.00?
Warhammer Community wrote:
If you thought your hard-bitten kill teams of covert operatives were elite specialists within their field, you’d be right. However, if you think they’re the best of the best, think again! Get ready to take your game to the next level with Kill Team: Elites.
This hotly-anticipated expansion brings some of the heaviest hitters in the Warhammer 40,000 universe to the skirmish battlefield, from Chaos Terminators and snazzgun-toting Flash Gitz to the towering Wraithguard of the Aeldari and the legendary warriors of the Custodian Guard! And if that wasn’t exciting enough already, there are also powerful new Commanders – including a nigh-unkillable Lord of Contagion and T’au Commander in VX85 Enforcer Battlesuit – as well as some legendary operatives in the form of Boss Snikrot, Illic Nightspear and Sly Marbo!
Oh, and did we mention all the awesome new sub-faction rules such as Chapter Tactics, Drukhari Obsessions and Cult Creeds?
If you’re looking to jump right into this new expansion, there are three new Kill Team sets, each boasting a famed – and highly elite – kill team, with their own background, skills and equipment (though you can also build them as you see fit to make your own kill team). These first three Elite kill teams are the Flash Gitz of Toofrippa’s Krew, the Death Guard Terminators of the Dolorous Strain, and the Thousand Sons Scarab Occult Terminators known as the Fractal Blades.
Rules may come and go but Terminators are always cool, so the DG and 1K sons sets do appeal. I do wonder if these "elite" teams will be at a higher price point though.
Looking at the included terrain, could GW be releasing a Sector Imperialis Kill zone now the big box has been OOP for a while?
Warhammer Community wrote:
If you thought your hard-bitten kill teams of covert operatives were elite specialists within their field, you’d be right. However, if you think they’re the best of the best, think again! Get ready to take your game to the next level with Kill Team: Elites.
This hotly-anticipated expansion brings some of the heaviest hitters in the Warhammer 40,000 universe to the skirmish battlefield, from Chaos Terminators and snazzgun-toting Flash Gitz to the towering Wraithguard of the Aeldari and the legendary warriors of the Custodian Guard! And if that wasn’t exciting enough already, there are also powerful new Commanders – including a nigh-unkillable Lord of Contagion and T’au Commander in VX85 Enforcer Battlesuit – as well as some legendary operatives in the form of Boss Snikrot, Illic Nightspear and Sly Marbo!
Oh, and did we mention all the awesome new sub-faction rules such as Chapter Tactics, Drukhari Obsessions and Cult Creeds?
If you’re looking to jump right into this new expansion, there are three new Kill Team sets, each boasting a famed – and highly elite – kill team, with their own background, skills and equipment (though you can also build them as you see fit to make your own kill team). These first three Elite kill teams are the Flash Gitz of Toofrippa’s Krew, the Death Guard Terminators of the Dolorous Strain, and the Thousand Sons Scarab Occult Terminators known as the Fractal Blades.
Spoiler:
In case anyone doesn't want to click through.
Could do with this updated to first post rather than just link and the preorder date..
GoatboyBeta wrote: Rules may come and go but Terminators are always cool, so the DG and 1K sons sets do appeal. I do wonder if these "elite" teams will be at a higher price point though.
Looking at the included terrain, could GW be releasing a Sector Imperialis Kill zone now the big box has been OOP for a while?
Maybe. It looks like it is most of the scatter scenery from Urban Conquest though.
Spoiler:
Includes:
Looks like it's just missing the "objectivey" bits from the third picture.
I’m guessing it will be 200 base at a minimum.
More if you use this and commanders (and I guess even more if you use the commanders from this. What’s a LoC gonna cost..)
My wild speculation has me thinking that the Elites faction boxes at $80-90 US leaning toward $90 to match the cost of Arena. As for points, I think it will stay 200 points even with Commanders. I also think that to use Elites you will actually need the Commanders book, and I kinda doubt that the Commanders rules are going to be rolled into Elites. Except maybe some of those new (Sly Marbo, et al) if they aren't already in it. I don't have Commanders, so I don't know.
Personally, I never expected it to.
It's more of a "gaming group" purchase than each person having to buy a copy.
That said, these Kill Teams likely are going to be sitting around the $60 mark. The scenery isn't very much for what it is, that's why I'm thinking they did it this way.
At the price point I'm not surprised. I'm also not surprised at the lack of interest. It just doesn't seem like a product anyone wanted.
Personally, I wish GW would make and sell a tournament kit for 40k similiar to kill team arena. Everyone doesn't' play in tournaments, but a silly high percentage of us act like we wish we could. Its the same reason their power points and narrative battles never caught on. Most of us like to pretend to be competitive, even if we're not.
At the price point I'm not surprised. I'm also not surprised at the lack of interest. It just doesn't seem like a product anyone wanted.
Personally, I wish GW would make and sell a tournament kit for 40k similiar to kill team arena. Everyone doesn't' play in tournaments, but a silly high percentage of us act like we wish we could. Its the same reason their power points and narrative battles never caught on. Most of us like to pretend to be competitive, even if we're not.
So true.
They should have kept the point system basis form army lists in the first place.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Looks like I will be getting a squad of Deathwing Terminators to go with my Intercessors.
With chapter tactics being introduced I would not be surprised to see DA, SW and BA variant Terminator kits bundled as Kill Teams. Its just a shame that the regular Indomitus armour will likely never get redone outside of the SM heroes line
casvalremdeikun wrote: Looks like I will be getting a squad of Deathwing Terminators to go with my Intercessors.
With chapter tactics being introduced I would not be surprised to see DA, SW and BA variant Terminator kits bundled as Kill Teams. Its just a shame that the regular Indomitus armour will likely never get redone outside of the SM heroes line
Yeah, it is definitely a shame. But luckily the BA and DA Terminator kits are awesome looking.
I wonder if some of the Genestealer Cult characters will just be elites, rather than commanders. Otherwise GC's haven't got anything - kind of surprised they're not getting Jackals. As silly as Jackals on stealth missions are, they're not really any sillier than Tau Battlesuits or Meganobs...
Big disappointment for me. Factions are getting Terminators, Battlesuits and other goodies and Admech gets... That strange Manipulus thing and... Electro-priests? Ok... I hoped to see Kataphrons.
I like the plastic sprues of scatter terrain in the Urban Conquest box but that isn't enough to justify buying it. Not sure about getting half of it in a Kill Team box when I don't want any of those three elite factions.
JB wrote: I like the plastic sprues of scatter terrain in the Urban Conquest box but that isn't enough to justify buying it. Not sure about getting half of it in a Kill Team box when I don't want any of those three elite factions.
The scatter terrain may convince me to grab a few more flash gitz. depends on the price of the boxes. Hopefully the same price as the skitarii and gsc ones.
Hawky wrote: Big disappointment for me. Factions are getting Terminators, Battlesuits and other goodies and Admech gets... That strange Manipulus thing and... Electro-priests? Ok... I hoped to see Kataphrons.
You have to wait until Kill Team: Heavy Support for them.
Grey Knight Terminators/Paladins for Kill Team. I never thought I'd see the day. It is very weird being interested in a 40k product for the first time in literal years.
But who am I kidding... GK KTs will probably suck as much as their regular 40k counterparts and I'll be able to just give the whole thing a pass.
For me the whole point of Kill Team is to not have things like HQ and Elite units around, so this expansion once again does not interest me.
Maybe the price on those box sets might convinve me to get them anyway, since I could use more Blightlords as well as the terrain pieces. Let's wait and see...
Darnok wrote: For me the whole point of Kill Team is to not have things like HQ and Elite units around, so this expansion once again does not interest me.
Maybe the price on those box sets might convinve me to get them anyway, since I could use more Blightlords as well as the terrain pieces. Let's wait and see...
I think Elites makes a lot more sense than Comanders, It kinda feels like the people deciding what books to do in the first place are thinking players will just get into 40k once they have all the kill team bits.
Which kinda sucks for players that only want kill team :(
Sector Sanctoris sounds interesting. Considering the name and that the three new kill team boxes have the scatter terrain, I'm guessing this will have the Sector Imperialis buildings with the extra Sanctum sprue.
If it has more than just the board and a Sanctum it could be nice to pick up at a discount now that the original kill team starter box is OOP.
Really not a fan of these rapid book releases. If these new units are designed for regular kill team why not just wait a year and do a combined updated rulebook.
Gael Knight wrote: Really not a fan of these rapid book releases. If these new units are designed for regular kill team why not just wait a year and do a combined updated rulebook.
Second. I want a single place for all rules, not a ton of books, I will not be getting into kill team because of this.
The more expansions they release for this game, the less I want to play it. I realise these are expansions but I assume most people will want to play with expansions similar to the Vigilus rules.
The price for the Terminator boxes seem good value considering you get a lot of extras for £5.
Tyranid Horde wrote: The more expansions they release for this game, the less I want to play it. I realise these are expansions but I assume most people will want to play with expansions similar to the Vigilus rules.
I really don't think that's the case. The vast majority of the games I play are not using Commanders, and Arena was really intended just for tournaments.
Gael Knight wrote: Really not a fan of these rapid book releases. If these new units are designed for regular kill team why not just wait a year and do a combined updated rulebook.
It almost seems like they are building this up to bridge into Combat Patrol. I’m sure they expect folks to “grow” into 40K proper and don’t expect to see them stay with Kill Team.
I think it's more a case of them continuing to support the game - as they said they would - and the only direction you can really expand squad-based combat into is different kinds of squad. "Elites" is just the broad theme this batch falls under (and it isn't really meant in the sense of the 40K battlefield role since not all of them are Elites choices for their respective armies).
You're still going to be playing with fewer than a dozen models.
Stormonu wrote: It almost seems like they are building this up to bridge into Combat Patrol. I’m sure they expect folks to “grow” into 40K proper and don’t expect to see them stay with Kill Team.
I disagree. One of the things I commonly was hearing from people early on was that they wanted a way to do elites vs hordes kinda deals, this sets us up for it.
Well, one way to support the game and expand its content would be to make unique models for the game.l, similar to the Shadespire teams. Unique sculpts of existing units, units not commonly seen outside of the fluff, etc. Loxotl mercenaries, Blood Pact, Dark Mechanicus Skitarii, small squads of other Guard regiments like Vostroyans, Tanith, Last Chancers... Kill Team is the perfect opportunity to explore smaller releases like those.
I disagree. One of the things I commonly was hearing from people early on was that they wanted a way to do elites vs hordes kinda deals, this sets us up for it.
Agree with you there. To me, the very most iconic Kill Team would be Deathwatch vs nids. Whether the Deathwatch fit in a slot labeled 'Elite' or not, it's an elite vs. horde deal, with a few, expensive veterans vs. a swarm of gribblies.
Now personally, I'm just happy that I can use Snikrot in KT.
Things of note:
- Factions like Death Guard that have a fixed sub-faction will still gain a bonus like in regular 40k. This most likely means that Imperial Factions like Grey Knights and Deathwatch will also gain a trait.
- New rules for Reserves in Kill Team will be added, including stratagems to deep strike and such.
- New included missions are also playable with Commanders and have a higher point value (up to 200) to play with the more expensive Elites and with Commanders.
Question for those who have bought KT stuff before..
I am tempted by the KT Death Guard Strain box, because it is JUST a lil more than a box of DG Terminators.
Are the models in there likely to be "push fit" or is there a complete Terminator kit in there.. cause if so, and it IS the rumored $66 bucks, the additional terrain is seriously bonus..
I did find it funny that Emperor's Children can't ever fire their pistols in melee, as they always count as charging (not "for the fight phase" or "fights in the hammer of wrath section", just "is considered to have charged."). Not that pistols were ever worth anything in KT, anyway.
porkuslime wrote: Question for those who have bought KT stuff before..
I am tempted by the KT Death Guard Strain box, because it is JUST a lil more than a box of DG Terminators.
Are the models in there likely to be "push fit" or is there a complete Terminator kit in there.. cause if so, and it IS the rumored $66 bucks, the additional terrain is seriously bonus..
The Kill Team stuff is just the normal version of whatever it is packed with some extra tokens, cards, scenery, etc.. If the standard 40k box isn't push-fit, neither is the Kill Team box.
Trimarius wrote: The Kill Team stuff is just the normal version of whatever it is packed with some extra tokens, cards, scenery, etc.. If the standard 40k box isn't push-fit, neither is the Kill Team box.
Almost always cast in colored plastic (or a color other than gray, anyway) if that matters to you. I know some modellers hate the red, green, etc plastic versions.
Excited for Elites, looking forward to it being more relevant than Commanders (which I've never used my rules from). More units is definitely a good thing, I'm pretty taped out on all my current factions' options - and thrilled to have more anything for CSM, somehow one of the most boring factions in the game?! - and look forward to traits and reserves adding further tactical depth. I'm less thrilled when I remember that the meta will boil all traits down to the one or two Obviously Best ones, however I'm optimistic that actual KT players will do what's cool / feels right, or that KT has enough depth as a system that there aren't as many kneejerk decisions involved. My experience in however many months of playing the game is that more is viable than in Bighammer, going to hope Elites continues to prove that true.
porkuslime wrote: Question for those who have bought KT stuff before..
I am tempted by the KT Death Guard Strain box, because it is JUST a lil more than a box of DG Terminators.
Are the models in there likely to be "push fit" or is there a complete Terminator kit in there.. cause if so, and it IS the rumored $66 bucks, the additional terrain is seriously bonus..
The Kill Team stuff is just the normal version of whatever it is packed with some extra tokens, cards, scenery, etc.. If the standard 40k box isn't push-fit, neither is the Kill Team box.
So, your thought is that it IS a full boxset of the Terminators.. that kinda makes this an insta buy for me since I was planning a purchase of terminators ANYHOW...
Chopxsticks wrote: Sorry if this is covered, If I buy the Thousand Sons box does that also include the Kill Team Elite core rule book? or is that a separate purchase?
That most likely will be separate, as none of the other squad boxes have had the core rules.
The themed boxed sets come with a full multi-part kit (in coloured plastic), terrain (also in coloured plastic), a fluff booklet for the models, cards for using the models as described in the booklet and two missions using the terrain.
So one Alarus Custodes will be about equivalent to an entire Kill Team right?
Maybe I can use Trajann as a Shield Captain and give me an excuse to field him.
I'm still irritated that the termi custodes are the same size as the regular golden boys. Would've been my favoritest 40k models ever if they'd just been a bit larger and bulkier.
Apple fox wrote: The deathwatch one seems to ether be rather bad, or potently really good depending on what mini the oponant have available to play with.
Seems a strait up buff against some factions, others have access to more so can plan against it effortlessly.
Against a non-harlequin (or ironically deathwatch) army you're gonna be lucky if it affects more than a third of the opposing roster. Remember that pretty much every faction uses different data sheets to differentiate between regular models and special weapon models.
And it's gonna get even worse once Elites start hitting the table.
Apple fox wrote: The deathwatch one seems to ether be rather bad, or potently really good depending on what mini the oponant have available to play with.
Seems a strait up buff against some factions, others have access to more so can plan against it effortlessly.
Against a non-harlequin (or ironically deathwatch) army you're gonna be lucky if it affects more than a third of the opposing roster. Remember that pretty much every faction uses different data sheets to differentiate between regular models and special weapon models.
And it's gonna get even worse once Elites start hitting the table.
Do they? Which ones (Xenos specifically, since that's what the Deathwatch are for )? Orks, Asuryani and Genestealer Cults don't seem to. OK, the Orks have Burnas, but the ones with rokkits and big shootas are just Boyz.
Ayup. Typically "X Gunner" or "X Fighter", but can get crazy convoluted. Theyre usually costed differently too, and almost always given a model limit for a kill team. Tau have four different Fire Warriors for instance.
Ayup. Typically "X Gunner" or "X Fighter", but can get crazy convoluted. Theyre usually costed differently too, and almost always given a model limit for a kill team. Tau have four different Fire Warriors for instance.
Guardsman, guardsman gunner, etc, are the same datasheet.
Yikes. That GK ability makes them even more cancerous to play against in KT.
"Hey yall, we heard your feedback on how it's kind of frustrating that each time your Grey Knights opponent takes a turn he just gets to basically make a free injury roll against one of your models and ignore all its defenses. So to fix that, we've made it so he gets to do it twice, AND we made it more reliable!
Ayup. Typically "X Gunner" or "X Fighter", but can get crazy convoluted. Theyre usually costed differently too, and almost always given a model limit for a kill team. Tau have four different Fire Warriors for instance.
Guardsman, guardsman gunner, etc, are the same datasheet.
The rule even uses Tyranid Warriors and Tyranid Warrior Gunners as an example.
Peregrine wrote: It nicely punishes spam lists that use the same datasheet for everything.
*raises hand*
I play against DW every week, and will be heavily punished by Mission Tactics, as I like spamming mediocre things / I play factions that don't have many units to choose from. Also lulz @ Harlies, who don't even get Elite reinforcements.
They have now mentioned "narrative" twice in describing these sub-faction abilities. I am starting to wonder if they are not balanced for competitive play.
the_scotsman wrote:Yikes. That GK ability makes them even more cancerous to play against in KT.
"Hey yall, we heard your feedback on how it's kind of frustrating that each time your Grey Knights opponent takes a turn he just gets to basically make a free injury roll against one of your models and ignore all its defenses. So to fix that, we've made it so he gets to do it twice, AND we made it more reliable!
Yooooure welcome!"
Hurray! I get to defend Kill Team Grey Knights in both being too weak and too powerful in the same week.
While this doubles the 12" psybolt goodness of the Grey Knights, it will also be in a meta where more factions have access to Deny the Witch now. I also suspect that this Grey Knights will still be the same beginner level trick that hardly becomes an issue with more experienced players. Grey Knights are one of my more effective teams. However, they have a lot of weaknesses that most experienced players know about and can avoid. In Kill Team, there are a bunch of ways to get near auto-kill attacks that easily remove models. Grey Knights are hardly alone in factions that can count on removing 2-3 enemy units a round. Basically any d6 damage weapon that hits pretty often can do that against everyone but Necrons and may Death Guard.
I don't really know how Kill: Team Elites is going to alter the faction tiers. I suspect that Grey Knights are going to say lower upper tier to upper mid-tier like they are now. I also wouldn't be surprised if Grey Knight settle a little deeper into the mid-tier even.
callidusx3 wrote:They have now mentioned "narrative" twice in describing these sub-faction abilities. I am starting to wonder if they are not balanced for competitive play.
Just like in full 40k. I completely expected subfaction traits to throw the balance of the game. There is almost no way they can't since they are free. For any given faction that that has multiple subfactions, there is going to be a 'best' one. Then it is just of matter of that 'best' subfaction trait being good and attached to strong faction to make them a little better. We might even see the opposite (such as Deathwatch maybe) where the faction is pretty good but their trait(s) are enough to hold them back some compared to everyone else.
I like Kill Team, but even I will admit that there isn't a lot of depth to the game. I don't mind as a just want a fairly quick, accessible (read: easy to learn) game that I can sometimes convince my non-tabletop gamer friends to play. I am honestly surprised that Arena hasn't pretty much been solved yet. Maybe it has, and those who have aren't really saying. I just think a simple-ish game, with limited unit/weapon options with static maps/missions it wouldn't take clever players all that long to figure out the play pattern to consistently win.
Saturmorn Carvilli wrote: I like Kill Team, but even I will admit that there isn't a lot of depth to the game.
Would you be so kind to point to other skirmish games that have the depth you find lacking in KT? I am always looking for skirmish games that provide depth as to in-game, tactical decision making.
Saturmorn Carvilli wrote: I like Kill Team, but even I will admit that there isn't a lot of depth to the game.
Would you be so kind to point to other skirmish games that have the depth you find lacking in KT? I am always looking for skirmish games that provide depth as to in-game, tactical decision making.
Saturmorn Carvilli wrote: I like Kill Team, but even I will admit that there isn't a lot of depth to the game.
Would you be so kind to point to other skirmish games that have the depth you find lacking in KT? I am always looking for skirmish games that provide depth as to in-game, tactical decision making.
I think both 1st and 2nd Edition Deadzone as well as Sharp Practice have more depth. I would include Chain of Command too, but that sorta moves out of the common miniatures gamers definition of a skirmish and is more of a platoon level game. I haven't played them, but I also think that Warmachine, Infinity, Malifaux, Wild West Exodus also have more depth. I am not a 100% sure on these, but I think Wrath of Kings, Carnevale, Batman the Miniatures Game, Relic Knights game do as well. I think of the miniatures games I can remember off the top of my head that might have less depth are Song of Blades and Heroes (but looks very balanced and easy to learn) and 7TV (which looks to be all kinds of 70's British television fun). That is just a quick list of skirmish games I can think of at the moment.
I consider Kill Team to pretty low on the tactical depth. Which again, suits me just fine as I honestly don't want a very hard game to play (I just would prefer the rules were a little easier to suss out of the book) at this point in my life. Kill Team is pretty much what I am looking for in a game at the moment. If I wanted more complicated skirmish rules I have own sci-fi rules based on Savage Worlds/Great Rail War that I wrote. By my own admission, those rules are typically more involved than even I want to deal with.
If you want to stick with 40k as a setting, I think 7th edition Warhammer 40k using the Heralds of Ruin Kill Team rules works very well. I felt that 7th edition rules made a decent foundation (not great, but decent) for a skirmish game but were far too cumbersome for a company level game. I also think Heralds of Ruin did a very good job of refining the 7th edition Kill Team rules (which seemed like a pretty lazy product to me). I don't know how easy getting everything together to play it now would be however.
Infinity is good. I have it, played it and like it. But it is very crunchy and suffers a bit from bringing models just to act as "action batteries" for one's big guy(s). KT plays a bit smoother for me.
Hmm, so I can get the scatter terrain and the statues. That seems better than buying an Elite box since I don't really need the elite minis but I want the scatter terrain. Does the board have art on the other side too?
Am I the only one that think the boards look very busy and disjointed, like someone dumped a pile of painted tiles on a table and slid a random mix of them together?
JB wrote: Am I the only one that think the boards look very busy and disjointed, like someone dumped a pile of painted tiles on a table and slid a random mix of them together?
Their 40K battle board has always been quite the eyesore to actually look at. And this board also has a weirdly stitched together in Photoshop look to it.
