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Price Hike! @ 2019/07/01 19:41:43


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2019/07/gw-pricing-increase-coming-next-week.html

Anyone see anything major? Is it just me or did several things go down? Feels like Scions, DW Killteam went down? They are raising vehicle costs.

Anyone want to hazard a guess? Of the Brexit variety?


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/01 20:15:14


Post by: John Prins


 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2019/07/gw-pricing-increase-coming-next-week.html

Anyone see anything major? Is it just me or did several things go down? Feels like Scions, DW Killteam went down? They are raising vehicle costs.

Anyone want to hazard a guess? Of the Brexit variety?


It looks a lot like they're hiking older kits that have held their same price for a while now. If i had to hazard a guess, I'd say they need to pay for more warehouse space, as their breakneck release schedule means they have so many more kits than a few years ago and they're not discontinuing tons of kits. This is probably why stuff like Looncurse or Shadow Spear were such limited releases, clogging up warehouse space. It's easier for the customer to swallow price hikes on older stuff they could have gotten in the last 4-5 years than to hike the price of newer kits so closely after their release.



Price Hike! @ 2019/07/01 21:00:07


Post by: Apple Peel


The Militarum Tempestus 5 man squad appears to be the same. Valks went up to 75, though. Unfortunate.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/01 21:03:12


Post by: Stormonu


Bleh, their new kits/sets have been increasing in price by leaps and bounds, guess they need to do the older stuff or it will be seen as too attractive - especially anything marine that isn’t primaris.

Getting to be a good time to leave the hobby before pricing and bloat Kill it.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/01 21:08:16


Post by: fraser1191


Bleh I even put in the most recent survey that prices were getting out of hand. Sounds like a good time to work on my backlog


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/01 21:22:05


Post by: Argive


Seems like they are going to reap in all they can before dropping all old kits to squeeze the max out of those mold.. Seems reasonable form a business perspective.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/01 21:30:00


Post by: Not Online!!!


At this point high quality miniature companies that provide alternatives become increqsingly happy i belive.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/01 21:34:00


Post by: Galef


I never thought politics would directly affect my hobby, but I totally expected this after Trumps trade war tariffs with China.

I'm not blaming GW for these price changes. It's total political BS.

-


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/01 21:34:51


Post by: Elbows


GW makes more than enough off their kits. They might use politics as an excuse, but they're raking it in even with old kits. There's no political motivation behind this.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/01 21:42:43


Post by: BrianDavion


 Galef wrote:
I never thought politics would directly affect my hobby, but I totally expected this after Trumps trade war tariffs with China.

I'm not blaming GW for these price changes. It's total political BS.

-


funny thing is I was kind of hoping Brexit would lead to GW price drops. I mean.. woulda been nice


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/01 21:45:52


Post by: Thargrim


 Elbows wrote:
GW makes more than enough off their kits. They might use politics as an excuse, but they're raking it in even with old kits. There's no political motivation behind this.


I think this is the case, considering the bonuses GW employees raked in a little while back. They are doing quite well with their current prices, they are just doing this cause they can, and we expected them to. And i'm not really seeing some kind of catastrophic social media backlash about it, people are still gonna keep buying this stuff.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/01 21:59:58


Post by: Teln




Viva la Ebay.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/01 22:07:03


Post by: Elbows


Sadly those fantastic eBay sales seem to be a thing of the past. That was the only way I could justify the few boxed sets I bought over the last couple of years.

You're still guaranteed 15% and free shipping...but the additional 15% was the kicker.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/01 22:13:15


Post by: Ancestral Hamster


GW still manufactures their models in the UK; so it might be Brexit, but it's not the Trump/China Trade War.

 Galef wrote:
I never thought politics would directly affect my hobby, but I totally expected this after Trumps trade war tariffs with China.

I'm not blaming GW for these price changes. It's total political BS.

-


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/01 22:24:32


Post by: McMagnus Mindbullets


Is this affecting UK products? USD to GBP is awful at the minute and things currently costing £70 in the UK if using exchange rates are going to 110! I can justify current prices, just about, but wow you guys have it bad.

Like people have said- rising material prices, warehouse restrictions etc.

Hopefully this doesn't affect us inside the UK, I mean all the Brexit **** is taking its toll already- this is most likely a result of that for all you US lot.

Brexit negotiations mean that sylvaneth are still stuck in a container somewhere as well. What an awful mess we have made.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/02 00:39:58


Post by: posermcbogus


...damn. Prices out in Japan are already pretty extreme anyway, hope we aren't hit too hard - the start collecting boxes are around double the price they were at release in the UK. It's enough to make me consider buying them in the UK, and then shipping them out to Japan from there. Might have to go back to being a gunpla-er instead...


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/02 00:44:35


Post by: the_scotsman


BrianDavion wrote:
 Galef wrote:
I never thought politics would directly affect my hobby, but I totally expected this after Trumps trade war tariffs with China.

I'm not blaming GW for these price changes. It's total political BS.

-


funny thing is I was kind of hoping Brexit would lead to GW price drops. I mean.. woulda been nice


Massive political instability economic uncertainty and xenophobic protectionism will surely lead to lower prices.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/02 01:41:40


Post by: AngryAngel80


I think people are trying to dig around for reasons GW had no choice but to raise prices.

Truth is, all of these boogeymen were around and GW has been on an upward swing the whole time. This is simply GW showing there ain't nothing new here at all.

Remember when they said they were done with the price hikes ? I do, at least not on old kits, doing it with updated stuff.

This new GW horsecrap was never real, it was the same old GW just with a fancy new green suit, made of money and the wrecked wallets of the older fans. The only thing good about this is I have most all of these old kits I'll want aside from maybe some more Ogryns at some point.

Welcome back old GW, i knew you were just waiting to say hello once more.

I guess we need to get ready for when your standard small transports - like the dunerider - are going to be costing upwards of 100$ Glad we gave them all that feedback that these high costs were bad, I see they took it straight to heart.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/02 02:02:27


Post by: Elbows


GW's pricing strategy is very simple: They will charge what people will pay.

They're one of the only gaming/hobby companies who is successful enough to actually carry it out though.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/02 02:10:04


Post by: Thargrim


 Elbows wrote:
GW's pricing strategy is very simple: They will charge what people will pay.

They're one of the only gaming/hobby companies who is successful enough to actually carry it out though.


True, but they just ensured I will never buy Mortarion or the lord of change. It's funny how much abuse GWs consumer base is willing to take, and continue plodding on anyway. Makes me wonder what exactly is the breaking point.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/02 02:16:05


Post by: Elbows


Oh I agree...I haven't bought a new GW product in a long while, a few combo-boxes with eBay sales in the past two years or so. I think they're going in the FW direction, hoping for the handful of well off people who just throw money at GW , and no longer interested in someone dropping $30 every other week, etc.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/02 04:51:47


Post by: Aaranis


I enjoyed supporting my local GW store until now because they're all good friends of mine there, and its community is great, but the price of the Dunerider (the transport AdMech has been waiting for since basically 7th Edition) at 60€ reallt shocked me and I've started considering alternatives for big models like that. Now that this price hike affects even AdMech boxes, which were already WAY TOO EXPENSIVE I'm comforted in my choice. I'll buy AdMech from another site and my modelism items from GW, as well as my Nighthaunts because their prices are "reasonable".

Same as others, I talked about their prices being nonsensical when you compared a Kabalite box with 5 Electro-Priests in the Big Survey, and instead of lowering the prices they're just making them ALL expensive.

This is not okay, they've been making a great profit this year, this is how they thank their customers.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/02 05:24:49


Post by: Vankraken


GW continues to be greedy. Glad I'm done buying GW products but I feel terrible for people trying to get into the hobby and don't want to feel like they are being gorged right out the gate. Also terrible for the kids who have some pocket money and want to pick up a kit to build, paint, and eventually play during the week but now they gotta dig deeper in the laundry or skip more school lunches to save up Warhammer money.

These price hikes are nothing though to the innevitable squatting of old marines and seeing people left holding thousands of dollars of marines which would be made officially useless. Maybe then they might see that new GW is the same company that looked down upon the unwashed peasents as nothing more than walking wallets that paint..... Or the consumers just keep throwing more money at Primaris Marines and continue to reward greed.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/02 05:28:07


Post by: Breton


 Aaranis wrote:
I enjoyed supporting my local GW store until now because they're all good friends of mine there, and its community is great, but the price of the Dunerider (the transport AdMech has been waiting for since basically 7th Edition) at 60€ reallt shocked me and I've started considering alternatives for big models like that. Now that this price hike affects even AdMech boxes, which were already WAY TOO EXPENSIVE I'm comforted in my choice. I'll buy AdMech from another site and my modelism items from GW, as well as my Nighthaunts because their prices are "reasonable".

Same as others, I talked about their prices being nonsensical when you compared a Kabalite box with 5 Electro-Priests in the Big Survey, and instead of lowering the prices they're just making them ALL expensive.

This is not okay, they've been making a great profit this year, this is how they thank their customers.


I support the local store because they have gaming tables, and that costs a lot more than paint pot or two per visit people think it does. I think it was Bell of Lost Souls that did the math for people to learn how much said table costs GW and FLGS operators.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/02 05:32:28


Post by: godardc


the_scotsman wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 Galef wrote:
I never thought politics would directly affect my hobby, but I totally expected this after Trumps trade war tariffs with China.

I'm not blaming GW for these price changes. It's total political BS.

-


funny thing is I was kind of hoping Brexit would lead to GW price drops. I mean.. woulda been nice


xenophobic protectionism will surely lead to lower prices.


Can't believe someone actually think protectionism is "xenophobic" and is actually doing politics in this thread. Good job


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/02 05:38:19


Post by: Thargrim


I like the idea of buy where you play, but sadly my closest lgs is a GW. And the thing is since the store opened there has been a big uptick of new hobbyists and surge of popularity in miniatures games in the area. The store has been great for community building. Thing is as far as i;m concerned buying from there is becoming harder to do.

Then again the only GW game I planned on carrying on with in the future is Blood Bowl. And it looks like BB is being hit with the price increase as well, but not sure by how much.



Price Hike! @ 2019/07/02 06:04:48


Post by: Huron black heart


An already expensive hobby gets even more so.
And to those who defend the pricing as GW just trying to make money must surely think, when's enough enough.
I've purchase a lot in the last year or so, Start collecting boxes and some of the other boxed sets have been relatively good value. But it's getting harder for me to accept the prices, particularly when my hobby budget doesn't increase at anything like the rate GW's prices do.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/02 06:23:19


Post by: Ginjitzu


As someone living in Vietnam on a Vietnamese salary, it's already very difficult to justify the cost of the hobby. To be fair, Games-Workshop do seem to heavily discount the boxes they send to my FLGS (the sole purveyor of their products in Hanoi) in order to overcome the heavy import duties and still leave room for the retailer to make a profit, but from the consumer's perspective, this only brings the cost back down to international level, while the average Vietnamese income is definitely not at a level equitable to other countries. What I'm getting at is that it won't take much to squash the budding hobby here. The irony is that just last weekend, the Vietnamese signed a free trade agreement with the EU that will eventually eliminate almost all duties and tariffs, at a time when the UK is just about to leave and thus negate any benefit. My hope is that Brexit will finally force Games-Workshop to reconsider their UK centered production, and open up a permanent facility in China, even if it's only for the Asian market.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/02 06:27:52


Post by: Hanskrampf


Ugh, after paints and SC! boxes, now normal kits, too? Some were already too expensive, others were 'cheap', but now get brought into line with the new price range, which is a shame, because a lot of it are big units (Plaguebearers, Gors)
Others are a real headscratcher. Who in their right mind would think Khorne Berserkers or Zombies, 20 year old fugly kits, deserve a price hike.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/02 06:28:08


Post by: Breton


 Huron black heart wrote:
An already expensive hobby gets even more so.
And to those who defend the pricing as GW just trying to make money must surely think, when's enough enough.
I've purchase a lot in the last year or so, Start collecting boxes and some of the other boxed sets have been relatively good value. But it's getting harder for me to accept the prices, particularly when my hobby budget doesn't increase at anything like the rate GW's prices do.


There's a guy at work who just got a cost of living adjustment raise. Can you believe he's charging his employer more money for the same work he did before? It's almost like I... I mean HE thinks prices go up over time and wages go up over time causing prices to rise.. in some sort of cycle where costs inflate. Some sort of... oh what's a good word.. inflationary cycle? I joke, but it's pretty basic. Prices go up, wages go up, wages go up, McDonalds installs Self Service Kiosks. They're not charging you for the table, they have to make that money back somehow.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/02 06:34:49


Post by: Hanskrampf


Breton wrote:
 Huron black heart wrote:
An already expensive hobby gets even more so.
And to those who defend the pricing as GW just trying to make money must surely think, when's enough enough.
I've purchase a lot in the last year or so, Start collecting boxes and some of the other boxed sets have been relatively good value. But it's getting harder for me to accept the prices, particularly when my hobby budget doesn't increase at anything like the rate GW's prices do.


There's a guy at work who just got a cost of living adjustment raise. Can you believe he's charging his employer more money for the same work he did before? It's almost like I... I mean HE thinks prices go up over time and wages go up over time causing prices to rise.. in some sort of cycle where costs inflate. Some sort of... oh what's a good word.. inflationary cycle? I joke, but it's pretty basic. Prices go up, wages go up, wages go up, McDonalds installs Self Service Kiosks. They're not charging you for the table, they have to make that money back somehow.

Wages have nowhere increased at the same rate as housing, electricity, or even GW pricing and we all know it. They increased pricing on new items (90€ Bloodthirster vs. 110€ GUO) and it was kinda accpeted because it meant older kits could stay the same price. So stop pretending this is okay.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/02 06:53:20


Post by: Huron black heart


Breton wrote:
 Huron black heart wrote:
An already expensive hobby gets even more so.
And to those who defend the pricing as GW just trying to make money must surely think, when's enough enough.
I've purchase a lot in the last year or so, Start collecting boxes and some of the other boxed sets have been relatively good value. But it's getting harder for me to accept the prices, particularly when my hobby budget doesn't increase at anything like the rate GW's prices do.


There's a guy at work who just got a cost of living adjustment raise. Can you believe he's charging his employer more money for the same work he did before? It's almost like I... I mean HE thinks prices go up over time and wages go up over time causing prices to rise.. in some sort of cycle where costs inflate. Some sort of... oh what's a good word.. inflationary cycle? I joke, but it's pretty basic. Prices go up, wages go up, wages go up, McDonalds installs Self Service Kiosks. They're not charging you for the table, they have to make that money back somehow.


I understand your point, mine was that GW's prices go up far more than inflation.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/02 06:58:52


Post by: Elbows


I think people who defend product price hikes have little to no idea how cheap GW is getting these kits produced. They'd still make a solid profit if the kits were half as expensive as they are now. To argue any defense of the prices (heck, the prices before the recent raises), you'd have to presume that the kit was reasonably priced before the increase....which isn't the case.

I have other games where I can purchase a box of 20 multipart plastic miniatures for around $30 USD. Those companies don't bump their prices every 18 months for fun. They're smaller and less successful companies than GW. GW is just in the fortunate enough position to have a rabid following, allowing them to get away with it.

Now, full disclosure; I 100% support GW doing whatever the hell they want. It's their company. I'm not entitled to cheaper GW kits, nor do I think they're committing any sort of crime. I will continue to vote with my wallet, and that's fine. Not worried about it.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/02 07:55:38


Post by: Blastaar


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I think people are trying to dig around for reasons GW had no choice but to raise prices.

Truth is, all of these boogeymen were around and GW has been on an upward swing the whole time. This is simply GW showing there ain't nothing new here at all.

Remember when they said they were done with the price hikes ? I do, at least not on old kits, doing it with updated stuff.

This new GW horsecrap was never real, it was the same old GW just with a fancy new green suit, made of money and the wrecked wallets of the older fans. The only thing good about this is I have most all of these old kits I'll want aside from maybe some more Ogryns at some point.

Welcome back old GW, i knew you were just waiting to say hello once more.

I guess we need to get ready for when your standard small transports - like the dunerider - are going to be costing upwards of 100$ Glad we gave them all that feedback that these high costs were bad, I see they took it straight to heart.


The only feedback GW cares about is profit. Complaining on Dakka, FB or the "community" survey won't cause GW to lower prices or write better rules. Tanking profits will. Yet people continue to throw their money at GW.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/02 09:50:25


Post by: Breton


 Hanskrampf wrote:

Wages have nowhere increased at the same rate as housing, electricity, or even GW pricing and we all know it. They increased pricing on new items (90€ Bloodthirster vs. 110€ GUO) and it was kinda accpeted because it meant older kits could stay the same price. So stop pretending this is okay.


We do? We know that? A $25 box in 1995 - according to https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/ which uses "the latest US government CPI data published on June 12 to adjust for inflation and calculate the cumulative inflation rate through May 2019".- should cost 42.01 today, and a $35 box should cost 58.81. I can't remember if a Dread was a $25 or $35 box (or if it was plastic yet - I think so but it was 25 years ago), it's on GamesWorkshop.com for 46.25. I'm pretty sure the Tactical Squad was a $25 box, and it's $40.00 now. It's also a newer kit (than the ones from 1995 I liked for the parade formation look) with more options. The Rhino - a $20-25 - box is 37.25.

It's probably not fair compare scouts Asasult and Devastator marines, they'll have additional factors - usually a switch from metal to plastic. And Scouts didn't even have a box, they were 2 or 3 to a blister now $25 a box.

We're not that far off of inflation, some over some under.



Price Hike! @ 2019/07/02 10:23:15


Post by: fraser1191


This seems like a good time to ask if anyone knows about an online store that sells at a discount in Canada?


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/02 10:59:09


Post by: wuestenfux


Well, these increases are massive in part.
And then they want new players to enter the game.
But I guess plastic is pretty expensive and a hard Brexit is looming when Boris J. is taking over.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/02 11:04:46


Post by: craggy


BrianDavion wrote:
 Galef wrote:
I never thought politics would directly affect my hobby, but I totally expected this after Trumps trade war tariffs with China.

I'm not blaming GW for these price changes. It's total political BS.

-


funny thing is I was kind of hoping Brexit would lead to GW price drops. I mean.. woulda been nice


I know they promised £35m a week to the Imperium but I'm not sure we can trust everything written on the side of a GSC Chimera.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/02 11:17:42


Post by: Breton


 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, these increases are massive in part.
And then they want new players to enter the game.
But I guess plastic is pretty expensive and a hard Brexit is looming when Boris J. is taking over.


They feel massive. But only because they're coming all at once. If GW had incrementally upped the price every year, as opposed to a bigger up every several years most people wouldn't even notice it. Instead of realizing how many kits they bought over the past 10 years for $5-10 less than they should have, they're paying attention to yesterday's $40 instead of today's $45.

Say you buy Model Kit A every year. Starting at $20 going up $1 every year, and the price goes up $1 every year to a final price of $24. over 5 years you'll spend - 20, 21, 22, 23, and 24, or $110. If they raise the price $5 every 5 years you'll spend 20+20+20+20+25 = $105. But you're going to notice that $5 a lot more than that $10. You're thinking about how many $5's you're going to need for the future, now how many $5's you didn't pay the previous 5 years.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/02 11:19:44


Post by: Not Online!!!


Well whats the point, there are now whole armies outthere that have good to great 3rd party ioptions completely unique to your liking.

All this has done is Promote this behaviour.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/02 11:46:32


Post by: wuestenfux


funny thing is I was kind of hoping Brexit would lead to GW price drops. I mean.. woulda been nice

A hard brexit will certainly introduce customs duty.
This could affect the sales to the EU. Bad news us players in the non-UK.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/02 13:30:40


Post by: redboi


Breton wrote:
 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, these increases are massive in part.
And then they want new players to enter the game.
But I guess plastic is pretty expensive and a hard Brexit is looming when Boris J. is taking over.


They feel massive. But only because they're coming all at once. If GW had incrementally upped the price every year, as opposed to a bigger up every several years most people wouldn't even notice it. Instead of realizing how many kits they bought over the past 10 years for $5-10 less than they should have, they're paying attention to yesterday's $40 instead of today's $45.

Say you buy Model Kit A every year. Starting at $20 going up $1 every year, and the price goes up $1 every year to a final price of $24. over 5 years you'll spend - 20, 21, 22, 23, and 24, or $110. If they raise the price $5 every 5 years you'll spend 20+20+20+20+25 = $105. But you're going to notice that $5 a lot more than that $10. You're thinking about how many $5's you're going to need for the future, now how many $5's you didn't pay the previous 5 years.


I don't know of any other companies that regularly increase the price of old merchandise. It's normally the opposite, prices go down over time.

Their investment into those kits is more than paid off at this point its almost pure profit


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/02 13:54:50


Post by: John Prins


 fraser1191 wrote:
This seems like a good time to ask if anyone knows about an online store that sells at a discount in Canada?


Meeplemart. 15% off GW retail, free shipping on orders over 200 CAD. Great selection of non-GW products as well, they're a huge retailer in Toronto.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/02 13:59:47


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


Time to shell out the $200 for that 3d printer....



Price Hike! @ 2019/07/02 14:27:27


Post by: Marin


It`s time GW admit pound is not 1.2x euro and start giving non-brits the real price.
If no deal is reached probably we can expect at least 10% drop of the currency value, until things stabilized.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/02 14:49:45


Post by: Excommunicatus


 fraser1191 wrote:
This seems like a good time to ask if anyone knows about an online store that sells at a discount in Canada?


https://www.meeplemart.com/

Discounts vary between 10 and 18% on GW prices and shipping is a flat $10 unless you spend over $200, then it's free.

I've never been anything less than completely satisfied with them.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/02 14:57:51


Post by: Stormonu


Breton wrote:
 Hanskrampf wrote:

Wages have nowhere increased at the same rate as housing, electricity, or even GW pricing and we all know it. They increased pricing on new items (90€ Bloodthirster vs. 110€ GUO) and it was kinda accpeted because it meant older kits could stay the same price. So stop pretending this is okay.


We do? We know that? A $25 box in 1995 - according to https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/ which uses "the latest US government CPI data published on June 12 to adjust for inflation and calculate the cumulative inflation rate through May 2019".- should cost 42.01 today, and a $35 box should cost 58.81. I can't remember if a Dread was a $25 or $35 box (or if it was plastic yet - I think so but it was 25 years ago), it's on GamesWorkshop.com for 46.25. I'm pretty sure the Tactical Squad was a $25 box, and it's $40.00 now. It's also a newer kit (than the ones from 1995 I liked for the parade formation look) with more options. The Rhino - a $20-25 - box is 37.25.

It's probably not fair compare scouts Asasult and Devastator marines, they'll have additional factors - usually a switch from metal to plastic. And Scouts didn't even have a box, they were 2 or 3 to a blister now $25 a box.

We're not that far off of inflation, some over some under.



They were overpriced back in the day, and just beginning to be tolerable (with the SCs and smaller starter boxes). GW is just raising the prices back up to their absurd boutique prices.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/02 15:04:44


Post by: n0t_u


Not a single Australian, I'm actually a little proud right now.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/02 16:01:23


Post by: Stormonu


The real question is, how will the consumer react? In the past, there’s been plenty of vocal outrage over the cost, but that GW has never been out of the black the outrage hasn’t been great enough to hurt GW.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/02 16:39:33


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


This might be a gambit to start the long process of squatting older models.

GW Exec: So, we raised prices on Tactical Marines, and no one is buying them? I guess the people want us to stop making them. Strike them from the lists!


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/02 17:06:25


Post by: redboi


Breton wrote:
 Hanskrampf wrote:

Wages have nowhere increased at the same rate as housing, electricity, or even GW pricing and we all know it. They increased pricing on new items (90€ Bloodthirster vs. 110€ GUO) and it was kinda accpeted because it meant older kits could stay the same price. So stop pretending this is okay.


We do? We know that? A $25 box in 1995 - according to https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/ which uses "the latest US government CPI data published on June 12 to adjust for inflation and calculate the cumulative inflation rate through May 2019".- should cost 42.01 today, and a $35 box should cost 58.81. I can't remember if a Dread was a $25 or $35 box (or if it was plastic yet - I think so but it was 25 years ago), it's on GamesWorkshop.com for 46.25. I'm pretty sure the Tactical Squad was a $25 box, and it's $40.00 now. It's also a newer kit (than the ones from 1995 I liked for the parade formation look) with more options. The Rhino - a $20-25 - box is 37.25.

It's probably not fair compare scouts Asasult and Devastator marines, they'll have additional factors - usually a switch from metal to plastic. And Scouts didn't even have a box, they were 2 or 3 to a blister now $25 a box.

We're not that far off of inflation, some over some under.


I bought Ork boys in 2004 for $20 for a box of 16. Now it's $35 for 10. If we adjust it to the price of 16 boys like the old pack, that would be $56.

Adjusting for inflation, a $20 box in 2004 should cost $27.84. The current price is almost exactly DOUBLE of the inflation rate. You can't even use the excuse of models being better now vs then. They are literally the exact same models. We are paying double price for two decade old products. That is absolute madness.



Price Hike! @ 2019/07/02 17:07:59


Post by: Excommunicatus


Or, it might be a board trying to maximise returns for their shareholders. Which they're mandated to do by law.

It's probably the sinister, vague, conspiracy thing, tho.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/02 17:08:33


Post by: Not Online!!!


 Excommunicatus wrote:
Or, it might be a board trying to maximise returns for their shareholders. Which they're mandated to do by law.

It's probably the sinister, vague, conspiracy thing, tho.



Isn't that law just specific to the US?



Price Hike! @ 2019/07/02 17:13:33


Post by: redboi


 Excommunicatus wrote:
Or, it might be a board trying to maximise returns for their shareholders. Which they're mandated to do by law.

It's probably the sinister, vague, conspiracy thing, tho.

Of course that is what they are doing. They are trying to make more money. No one has said anything different...

However this behavior is the exact thing that caused them to lose a huge chunk of marketshare and priced out a large portion of the potential customer base. Price increases are not a sustainable way to increase profit. Companies that chase ever increasing yearly growth are inherently self destructive.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/02 17:24:36


Post by: Excommunicatus


Not Online!!! wrote:
 Excommunicatus wrote:
Or, it might be a board trying to maximise returns for their shareholders. Which they're mandated to do by law.

It's probably the sinister, vague, conspiracy thing, tho.


Isn't that law just specific to the US?


Nope. It appears in the Companies Act, 2006.

s. 172 Duty to promote the success of the company
(1)A director of a company must act in the way he considers, in good faith, would be most likely to promote the success of the company for the benefit of its members as a whole

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/172

"[M]embers", in context, means "shareholders".

A version of it also appears in both the Canada and Ontario Business Corporation Acts - and probably every other Province and Territory's version of the same law. It's a fairly fundamental tenet of corporate law.

redboi wrote:

Of course that is what they are doing. They are trying to make more money. No one has said anything different....


Except for that one poster, who floated a vague, sinister conspiracy mere minutes before I posted.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/02 18:17:04


Post by: G00fySmiley


 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Time to shell out the $200 for that 3d printer....



10/10 highly reccomend. with the right settings a $200 printer can make models pretty close to GW quality. for $500 you can get one that does every bit the same detail as GW models


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/02 19:25:39


Post by: AngryAngel80


In part, this was not unexpected, GW is nothing if not ever eager to banish good will as quickly as it grows it.

Though for the old marines, it may be just as simple as they want to raise the costs of stuff old marine and make the primaris line seem by default more reasonable. Like the tac squad box, now priced up to be more comparable to the Primaris squad boxes. Given that, who will pick up an inferior rules wise box over the new hotness when the price of the kits is so similar ?

Maybe it is just to bring kits in line with another, but I'm sure some of it is also just to remove incentives to models they want to phase out with lines they want to push.

As always though GW does nothing without some ambiguity to it. The only thing clear being, they are greedy as the day is long, and that hasn't changed from the old dark days to the new dark days. This time they just have much better PR to spin it and a more public front to brush any concerns under the rug and let the fanboys shout down disagreement. So better implementation but still the same net goal, gouging away.

I continue to feel bad for anyone who would even try to get into this hobby. It was expensive before, now it's literally the choice between this and a moderate army, or other more useful items, like a computer, tablet hell entertainment system. All of which are more key to modern day life then some plastic army men.

It isn't just a matter of this one price hike, but each new kit growing more and more cost bloated. Doesn't hurt as much if you already have it all on hand. However starting up ? It hurts the hobby and player base. Even myself I've chosen to sit out releases and wait for discounts, as I won't support the insane costs for some of these releases.

There is no justification for the hikes, other than moar money. If it was to keep things running, the customer base would embrace it, but no one should love to be gouged.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/02 19:37:26


Post by: Excommunicatus


Why I Don't Care: A Novella

GW are a business. Of course the justification is to make money. You gift your labour, do you?


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/02 19:54:01


Post by: Darsath


 Excommunicatus wrote:
Why I Don't Care: A Novella

GW are a business. Of course the justification is to make money. You gift your labour, do you?


As a customer, my main priorities are the impacts to the customer. Saying "GW is a business" doesn't justify their actions in the slightest. I don't exactly benefit from their increased profit margins, so why should I care?


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/02 20:08:29


Post by: Arcanis161


Looking at the prices specifically for my main faction:

Valkyrie will be priced out of what I'd spend. Had only vaguely considered getting one though, as while I do have some Scions, I've been able to use them this far without one.

Hydra also reached that threshold, but my meta only has a few air units (and aren't other units better anyways?)

Ogryns I was always on the fence on. I've got Crusaders as a melee meatshield already; not sure I absolutely need Ogryns on top of that.

I'll have to think seriously about whether I'll want another Russ.

With some spare parts, I can always split the Heavy Weapons Teams from 3 teams into 6 or more, that price doesn't bother me.

I rarely get command squads, so that doesn't bother me either.

I've got plenty of regular Guardsmen, so I probably won't get more. If I do though, I can save some money per squad by getting two packs of the 5 man Easy to Build sets with one Infantry box.

Overall, not much change for me.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/02 20:14:13


Post by: Excommunicatus


You don't have to.

Making you happy isn't why GW exists. Making money is. Whether you're happy or not is irrelevant as long as you keep buying.

Which you will, if you play the probabilities. Everyone loves to moan, few people actually stop buying; which is the only protest that has ANY sort of meaning to GW.

The onus on shareholder return is, IMO, a regrettable state of affairs and will be one of the first exhibits admitted by prosecutors in our inevitable trial at alien hands but that doesn't mean we can simply pretend it doesn't exist.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/02 22:28:56


Post by: Darsath


 Excommunicatus wrote:
You don't have to.

Making you happy isn't why GW exists. Making money is. Whether you're happy or not is irrelevant as long as you keep buying.

Which you will, if you play the probabilities. Everyone loves to moan, few people actually stop buying; which is the only protest that has ANY sort of meaning to GW.

The onus on shareholder return is, IMO, a regrettable state of affairs and will be one of the first exhibits admitted by prosecutors in our inevitable trial at alien hands but that doesn't mean we can simply pretend it doesn't exist.


I haven't bought anything from Games Workshop in over a year. Though trying to argue strictly from Games Workshop's Business POV kinda misses the point.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/02 22:30:27


Post by: Isengard


This is very much like the old GW. I thought they'd learned their lesson. Now obviously we can all understand that inflation means that in order to maintain your profit margins you need to increase prices at times. It is how you do this that impacts on the likely outcomes. By simply issuing a blanket price rise GW seem to be trying to bait their fanbase, cause a big fuss and get accused of being rip offs. Of course, the guy who argues "In 1990 they cost..." is missing the 30 years of inflation since, but I think a blanket increase is a very odd way to do this. For ages they seemed to do their increases by simply releasing more expensive kits and naturally raising prices as they cycled in new kits. I'm not sure of the reasoning for increasing prices on the old kits now. They had not been suffering any major adverse impact on profits from those prices.

If I was a betting man I think they have thought something like "we've rebuilt good will to a large extent, so we can now do a price rise. We'll get it over in one go to just get the online moaning out of the way in one quick and noisy go".


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/03 06:35:28


Post by: wuestenfux


I continue to feel bad for anyone who would even try to get into this hobby. It was expensive before, now it's literally the choice between this and a moderate army, or other more useful items, like a computer, tablet hell entertainment system. All of which are more key to modern day life then some plastic army men.

Well, I'm wondering that GW still makes money with plastic armies.
Seems outdated if you consider some contenders for personal entertainment like computer, tablet and whatnot.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/03 07:23:23


Post by: Sim-Life


GW have a round of price increases every year. I don't know why anyone is surprised.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/03 07:44:34


Post by: FeindusMaximus


The greed is kicking in again. It can't be all the cheep labor the UK keeps importing.
2008: AoBR, 5th ed, $50USD yielded 10tac, 5 terms, dread, cpt, 20 boys, 5 nobs, boss and 3 deffcopters.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/03 16:57:07


Post by: Elbows


 wuestenfux wrote:
I continue to feel bad for anyone who would even try to get into this hobby. It was expensive before, now it's literally the choice between this and a moderate army, or other more useful items, like a computer, tablet hell entertainment system. All of which are more key to modern day life then some plastic army men.

Well, I'm wondering that GW still makes money with plastic armies.
Seems outdated if you consider some contenders for personal entertainment like computer, tablet and whatnot.


Honestly, I think this is actually "why" physical non-internet based hobbies still exist.

Painting and table-top gaming has always been a my form of relaxation or escape (well maybe not the gaming part, I lose frequently). But it is my favourite time to put my phone in my pocket (unless I'm taking pics) and not look at a screen for 3-4 hours. I don't text or use my phone at all, and it's similar when I'm painting. It's far away from my computer where I spend too much time doing other work stuff.

I think they're going to have a rude awakening in the future though. Their prices are so out of control in many instances that you won't find many young teenagers or kids getting into it. I spent way too much time in GW stores in my college days (my best friend and roommate was a manager of one) and it was something we always enjoyed. Watching the young kids run into the store, super excited about their first dreadnought or squad that they painted (horribly!). Playing 150-200 point games because that's what they owned, and we'd always oblige them. Back then though you could still buy blisters for $7-15 depending on the mini, so a lot of the young kids would buy one or two blisters with their meager funds.

This GW store was in a large shopping mall, so it was often like geek-daycare where parents would give their kids $10 and drop them off to sit and paint/play while they went shopping. This probably wasn't a massive source of income, but it was setting up future buyers/players. The parents were the primary retail target at the time (circa 2003-2005). GW had implicitly stated the goal was large $150-300 purchases up front from willing parents.

I just know as a kid or young person now, they've been completely priced out of the hobby - again without an influx of mommy/daddy cash. What high schooler will go and pay $60 for a box of ten Space Marines when $60 still gets you a full computer/Xbox/PS4 game? GW is on a roll now, but I suspect in 10-15 years there may be a reckoning. GW probably makes most of its money from 30-40 somethings with expendable income. In a decade or more, that base may not exist if they keep going bananas on this stuff. I'm already out, but I don't see many replacements coming up behind.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/03 17:55:42


Post by: redboi


 Elbows wrote:
 wuestenfux wrote:
I continue to feel bad for anyone who would even try to get into this hobby. It was expensive before, now it's literally the choice between this and a moderate army, or other more useful items, like a computer, tablet hell entertainment system. All of which are more key to modern day life then some plastic army men.

Well, I'm wondering that GW still makes money with plastic armies.
Seems outdated if you consider some contenders for personal entertainment like computer, tablet and whatnot.


Honestly, I think this is actually "why" physical non-internet based hobbies still exist.

Painting and table-top gaming has always been a my form of relaxation or escape (well maybe not the gaming part, I lose frequently). But it is my favourite time to put my phone in my pocket (unless I'm taking pics) and not look at a screen for 3-4 hours. I don't text or use my phone at all, and it's similar when I'm painting. It's far away from my computer where I spend too much time doing other work stuff.

I think they're going to have a rude awakening in the future though. Their prices are so out of control in many instances that you won't find many young teenagers or kids getting into it. I spent way too much time in GW stores in my college days (my best friend and roommate was a manager of one) and it was something we always enjoyed. Watching the young kids run into the store, super excited about their first dreadnought or squad that they painted (horribly!). Playing 150-200 point games because that's what they owned, and we'd always oblige them. Back then though you could still buy blisters for $7-15 depending on the mini, so a lot of the young kids would buy one or two blisters with their meager funds.

This GW store was in a large shopping mall, so it was often like geek-daycare where parents would give their kids $10 and drop them off to sit and paint/play while they went shopping. This probably wasn't a massive source of income, but it was setting up future buyers/players. The parents were the primary retail target at the time (circa 2003-2005). GW had implicitly stated the goal was large $150-300 purchases up front from willing parents.

I just know as a kid or young person now, they've been completely priced out of the hobby - again without an influx of mommy/daddy cash. What high schooler will go and pay $60 for a box of ten Space Marines when $60 still gets you a full computer/Xbox/PS4 game? GW is on a roll now, but I suspect in 10-15 years there may be a reckoning. GW probably makes most of its money from 30-40 somethings with expendable income. In a decade or more, that base may not exist if they keep going bananas on this stuff. I'm already out, but I don't see many replacements coming up behind.

I agree.

I was one of those young brats hanging around the mall when our parents wanted us out of the house. Would wander into the local hobby shop and browse around. One day we saw the LotR starter set and the rest was history. We pooled our pocket change and bought a $40(!!!) starter set that included a rule book, terrain, dice, and two sizable forces. We spent every weekend after that playing and painting at the shop, spending our spare change to buy a new box whenever we saved enough. Eventually we transferred to 40k as we got older and had jobs to afford armies.

Nowadays, I see families with kids and teens walk into the GW shop. The kids are often super excited to see the game played and look at the models. Then the parents ask about pricing and they nope the fuk right out of the store. I hardly ever see anyone younger than mid 20s actually playing in the shop these days.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/03 18:43:54


Post by: Saturmorn Carvilli


 Elbows wrote:
I just know as a kid or young person now, they've been completely priced out of the hobby - again without an influx of mommy/daddy cash. What high schooler will go and pay $60 for a box of ten Space Marines when $60 still gets you a full computer/Xbox/PS4 game? GW is on a roll now, but I suspect in 10-15 years there may be a reckoning. GW probably makes most of its money from 30-40 somethings with expendable income. In a decade or more, that base may not exist if they keep going bananas on this stuff. I'm already out, but I don't see many replacements coming up behind.


Yeah, when I am around some of my extended family's kids I kinda want to break out my Kill Team stuff as I am sure they would get a kick out given the video games they like. At the same time, I know for a fact their parents couldn't really afford even a couple of Troop boxes to make a modest kill team and mostly certainly can't afford even a small full 40k army. So I never bring it up and just play whatever video game (save the Battle Royale types) the kids are interested instead.

Maybe it is because I was a kid of the 80's and we were all living in a material world with material girls and such, but I don't know if action figures or other such toys are all that popular anymore with kids. I can't say I remember seeing kids playing with them much, but then again, I am not really around kids much and don't usually care what they are up to. I just seems like kids today have all their entertainment wrapped up in electronics which I don't know if that is a good thing. Sure, the commercialism marketed to me in the 1980s wasn't great either, but I think it was a little better when me and my friends imagined the latest military operation with our G.I. Joes or had pretend battles with out transformers teams. And we usually played outside at least getting a little bit of exercise. I just don't know how much imagination kids are doing these days since modern games don't have nearly the gaps that 4-bit or even 8-bit games did. But this is probably me getting to be an old fogey trading the 'comic books and cartoons will rot your brain' with 'videa games and smart phones will rot yer brains.'


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/04 00:18:18


Post by: lolman1c


This will end very poorly for GW (a lot more than it had ever done in the past). We're so used to GW fan boyz/girlz keeping GW afloat but in 2019 40k does not have the product stability and monopoly it used to have. Back in the early 2000s when the original price hike nearly killed the company they survived because people had dedicated enough resources into the company that they couldn't leave (and there wasn'tmuch to leave too). However, in 2019 we all have so many other "nerd" content providers fighting for our cash and manynof them do the same or similar to GW but better and cheaper. In addition, we seem to all have our thumbs in all the pies now adays so if one pie goes rotten it's very easy for us to send it off to the ol' Ebay market stall whil we stick our thumb in another pie.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Isengard wrote:
This is very much like the old GW. I thought they'd learned their lesson. Now obviously we can all understand that inflation means that in order to maintain your profit margins you need to increase prices at times. It is how you do this that impacts on the likely outcomes. By simply issuing a blanket price rise GW seem to be trying to bait their fanbase, cause a big fuss and get accused of being rip offs. Of course, the guy who argues "In 1990 they cost..." is missing the 30 years of inflation since, but I think a blanket increase is a very odd way to do this. For ages they seemed to do their increases by simply releasing more expensive kits and naturally raising prices as they cycled in new kits. I'm not sure of the reasoning for increasing prices on the old kits now. They had not been suffering any major adverse impact on profits from those prices.

If I was a betting man I think they have thought something like "we've rebuilt good will to a large extent, so we can now do a price rise. We'll get it over in one go to just get the online moaning out of the way in one quick and noisy go".


The inflation argument also has the problem of scale of production (in 2019 the scalemof the production is massive in comparison to 90s GW yet they're still more expensive when they should be cheaper or similar priced). Plus, it doesn't take into account production costs going down from technology changes and stuff. Which has all saved GW massive amount of money in the past few years but has only encouraged them to make cheaper models for a more expensive price.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/04 07:31:49


Post by: wuestenfux


I just know as a kid or young person now, they've been completely priced out of the hobby - again without an influx of mommy/daddy cash. What high schooler will go and pay $60 for a box of ten Space Marines when $60 still gets you a full computer/Xbox/PS4 game? GW is on a roll now, but I suspect in 10-15 years there may be a reckoning. GW probably makes most of its money from 30-40 somethings with expendable income. In a decade or more, that base may not exist if they keep going bananas on this stuff. I'm already out, but I don't see many replacements coming up behind.

This is just one branch into the future - kids are priced out and the base of 30-40 years old is vanishing.
Seems reasonable, but the situation in our gaming group is different.
Players around 20 years old enter the hobby and the older guys are still there and dont show the slightest inclination to move away.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/04 07:44:08


Post by: Apple fox


 Excommunicatus wrote:
You don't have to.

Making you happy isn't why GW exists. Making money is. Whether you're happy or not is irrelevant as long as you keep buying.

Which you will, if you play the probabilities. Everyone loves to moan, few people actually stop buying; which is the only protest that has ANY sort of meaning to GW.

The onus on shareholder return is, IMO, a regrettable state of affairs and will be one of the first exhibits admitted by prosecutors in our inevitable trial at alien hands but that doesn't mean we can simply pretend it doesn't exist.


Making players happy tends to be a good idea when you sell games. I am actually quite happy to pay high for things, if i am happy with what i get. And i have only buy a few things for kill team, but not happy enough to keep buying anything for that now.
I do not think there prices are fair for what they offer, If there game was better maybe i would be happy paying the close to extreme prices.

When you as a company ask so much money for your game, you better be putting in some quality effort.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/04 09:50:38


Post by: Ginjitzu


 wuestenfux wrote:
I just know as a kid or young person now, they've been completely priced out of the hobby - again without an influx of mommy/daddy cash. What high schooler will go and pay $60 for a box of ten Space Marines when $60 still gets you a full computer/Xbox/PS4 game? GW is on a roll now, but I suspect in 10-15 years there may be a reckoning. GW probably makes most of its money from 30-40 somethings with expendable income. In a decade or more, that base may not exist if they keep going bananas on this stuff. I'm already out, but I don't see many replacements coming up behind.

This is just one branch into the future - kids are priced out and the base of 30-40 years old is vanishing.
Seems reasonable, but the situation in our gaming group is different.
Players around 20 years old enter the hobby and the older guys are still there and dont show the slightest inclination to move away.
I wonder is that more of a reflection of Germany as a whole rather than just your gaming group. I'm not completely clued in the current economic status of Germany, but aren't you guys pretty much smashing it at the moment? My point being that in a strong economy with an enriched workforce and plenty of disposable income, Games-Workshop probably won't see too many sales drop off following a price rise, but in places where money's more tight, it probably won't take much for consumers to find something more affordable to buy with their hard earned.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/04 10:07:41


Post by: Not Online!!!


 Ginjitzu wrote:
 wuestenfux wrote:
I just know as a kid or young person now, they've been completely priced out of the hobby - again without an influx of mommy/daddy cash. What high schooler will go and pay $60 for a box of ten Space Marines when $60 still gets you a full computer/Xbox/PS4 game? GW is on a roll now, but I suspect in 10-15 years there may be a reckoning. GW probably makes most of its money from 30-40 somethings with expendable income. In a decade or more, that base may not exist if they keep going bananas on this stuff. I'm already out, but I don't see many replacements coming up behind.

This is just one branch into the future - kids are priced out and the base of 30-40 years old is vanishing.
Seems reasonable, but the situation in our gaming group is different.
Players around 20 years old enter the hobby and the older guys are still there and dont show the slightest inclination to move away.
I wonder is that more of a reflection of Germany as a whole rather than just your gaming group. I'm not completely clued in the current economic status of Germany, but aren't you guys pretty much smashing it at the moment? My point being that in a strong economy with an enriched workforce and plenty of disposable income, Games-Workshop probably won't see too many sales drop off following a price rise, but in places where money's more tight, it probably won't take much for consumers to find something more affordable to buy with their hard earned.


If that were true, which it isn't, switzerland would be a gigantic relative market, altough the only Shop near me stated that ever since 7th the ammount of sales of 40k didn't nearly reach the levels beforehand.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/04 10:12:22


Post by: wuestenfux


 Ginjitzu wrote:
 wuestenfux wrote:
I just know as a kid or young person now, they've been completely priced out of the hobby - again without an influx of mommy/daddy cash. What high schooler will go and pay $60 for a box of ten Space Marines when $60 still gets you a full computer/Xbox/PS4 game? GW is on a roll now, but I suspect in 10-15 years there may be a reckoning. GW probably makes most of its money from 30-40 somethings with expendable income. In a decade or more, that base may not exist if they keep going bananas on this stuff. I'm already out, but I don't see many replacements coming up behind.

This is just one branch into the future - kids are priced out and the base of 30-40 years old is vanishing.
Seems reasonable, but the situation in our gaming group is different.
Players around 20 years old enter the hobby and the older guys are still there and dont show the slightest inclination to move away.
I wonder is that more of a reflection of Germany as a whole rather than just your gaming group. I'm not completely clued in the current economic status of Germany, but aren't you guys pretty much smashing it at the moment? My point being that in a strong economy with an enriched workforce and plenty of disposable income, Games-Workshop probably won't see too many sales drop off following a price rise, but in places where money's more tight, it probably won't take much for consumers to find something more affordable to buy with their hard earned.

40k is alive and kickin' in Germany these days.
For instance, the Regensburg masters holds 44 places (July 2019) but is hopelessly overbooked (77).
And the German economy has almost full employment.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/04 10:22:48


Post by: Ginjitzu


Not Online!!! wrote:
 Ginjitzu wrote:
 wuestenfux wrote:
I just know as a kid or young person now, they've been completely priced out of the hobby - again without an influx of mommy/daddy cash. What high schooler will go and pay $60 for a box of ten Space Marines when $60 still gets you a full computer/Xbox/PS4 game? GW is on a roll now, but I suspect in 10-15 years there may be a reckoning. GW probably makes most of its money from 30-40 somethings with expendable income. In a decade or more, that base may not exist if they keep going bananas on this stuff. I'm already out, but I don't see many replacements coming up behind.

This is just one branch into the future - kids are priced out and the base of 30-40 years old is vanishing.
Seems reasonable, but the situation in our gaming group is different.
Players around 20 years old enter the hobby and the older guys are still there and dont show the slightest inclination to move away.
I wonder is that more of a reflection of Germany as a whole rather than just your gaming group. I'm not completely clued in the current economic status of Germany, but aren't you guys pretty much smashing it at the moment? My point being that in a strong economy with an enriched workforce and plenty of disposable income, Games-Workshop probably won't see too many sales drop off following a price rise, but in places where money's more tight, it probably won't take much for consumers to find something more affordable to buy with their hard earned.


If that were true, which it isn't, switzerland would be a gigantic relative market, altough the only Shop near me stated that ever since 7th the ammount of sales of 40k didn't nearly reach the levels beforehand.
Perhaps the Swiss just aren't interested in Warhammer? I'm sure there are also cultural reasons why some hobbies are more popular than others. In Ireland, for instance, which is a generally wealthy country, Warhammer always struggled to catch on in my town; the Irish, it seems, are only interested in football, Gaelic football, video games and drinking. Anything else is looked upon as suspicious and outlandish. Whereas here in Vietnam - a country that's only recently begun to develop a middle class, the hobby is burgeoning - at least in the two major cities - seemingly because the Vietnamese rarely judge each other on their hobbies.

Besides, if the Swiss outdoors are as beautiful as they look, and I lived there, I wouldn't be bothering with this nerdy gak either.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/04 12:11:10


Post by: Not Online!!!


 Ginjitzu wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
 Ginjitzu wrote:
 wuestenfux wrote:
I just know as a kid or young person now, they've been completely priced out of the hobby - again without an influx of mommy/daddy cash. What high schooler will go and pay $60 for a box of ten Space Marines when $60 still gets you a full computer/Xbox/PS4 game? GW is on a roll now, but I suspect in 10-15 years there may be a reckoning. GW probably makes most of its money from 30-40 somethings with expendable income. In a decade or more, that base may not exist if they keep going bananas on this stuff. I'm already out, but I don't see many replacements coming up behind.

This is just one branch into the future - kids are priced out and the base of 30-40 years old is vanishing.
Seems reasonable, but the situation in our gaming group is different.
Players around 20 years old enter the hobby and the older guys are still there and dont show the slightest inclination to move away.
I wonder is that more of a reflection of Germany as a whole rather than just your gaming group. I'm not completely clued in the current economic status of Germany, but aren't you guys pretty much smashing it at the moment? My point being that in a strong economy with an enriched workforce and plenty of disposable income, Games-Workshop probably won't see too many sales drop off following a price rise, but in places where money's more tight, it probably won't take much for consumers to find something more affordable to buy with their hard earned.


If that were true, which it isn't, switzerland would be a gigantic relative market, altough the only Shop near me stated that ever since 7th the ammount of sales of 40k didn't nearly reach the levels beforehand.
Perhaps the Swiss just aren't interested in Warhammer? I'm sure there are also cultural reasons why some hobbies are more popular than others. In Ireland, for instance, which is a generally wealthy country, Warhammer always struggled to catch on in my town; the Irish, it seems, are only interested in football, Gaelic football, video games and drinking. Anything else is looked upon as suspicious and outlandish. Whereas here in Vietnam - a country that's only recently begun to develop a middle class, the hobby is burgeoning - at least in the two major cities - seemingly because the Vietnamese rarely judge each other on their hobbies.

Besides, if the Swiss outdoors are as beautiful as they look, and I lived there, I wouldn't be bothering with this nerdy gak either.


ehh the cultural argument doesn't really work. and if you have lived a decent time here you would realise that beyond the political cultures and belives (e.g direct democraticy, legtimacy before legality and just in general a distaste for homogenic structures.) that under the line you still have an alpine southern germanic infront of you or southern french, or northern italian.

then again your average worker in switzerland has to make do with a lot less then the statistics state. (i wish i had the statistically 250'000 CHF on my bank account..... ) but it isn't as if the german state would not have similarly inflated statistics.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/05 02:55:33


Post by: Ginjitzu


Not Online!!! wrote:
Spoiler:
 Ginjitzu wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
 Ginjitzu wrote:
 wuestenfux wrote:
I just know as a kid or young person now, they've been completely priced out of the hobby - again without an influx of mommy/daddy cash. What high schooler will go and pay $60 for a box of ten Space Marines when $60 still gets you a full computer/Xbox/PS4 game? GW is on a roll now, but I suspect in 10-15 years there may be a reckoning. GW probably makes most of its money from 30-40 somethings with expendable income. In a decade or more, that base may not exist if they keep going bananas on this stuff. I'm already out, but I don't see many replacements coming up behind.

This is just one branch into the future - kids are priced out and the base of 30-40 years old is vanishing.
Seems reasonable, but the situation in our gaming group is different.
Players around 20 years old enter the hobby and the older guys are still there and dont show the slightest inclination to move away.
I wonder is that more of a reflection of Germany as a whole rather than just your gaming group. I'm not completely clued in the current economic status of Germany, but aren't you guys pretty much smashing it at the moment? My point being that in a strong economy with an enriched workforce and plenty of disposable income, Games-Workshop probably won't see too many sales drop off following a price rise, but in places where money's more tight, it probably won't take much for consumers to find something more affordable to buy with their hard earned.


If that were true, which it isn't, switzerland would be a gigantic relative market, altough the only Shop near me stated that ever since 7th the ammount of sales of 40k didn't nearly reach the levels beforehand.
Perhaps the Swiss just aren't interested in Warhammer? I'm sure there are also cultural reasons why some hobbies are more popular than others. In Ireland, for instance, which is a generally wealthy country, Warhammer always struggled to catch on in my town; the Irish, it seems, are only interested in football, Gaelic football, video games and drinking. Anything else is looked upon as suspicious and outlandish. Whereas here in Vietnam - a country that's only recently begun to develop a middle class, the hobby is burgeoning - at least in the two major cities - seemingly because the Vietnamese rarely judge each other on their hobbies.

Besides, if the Swiss outdoors are as beautiful as they look, and I lived there, I wouldn't be bothering with this nerdy gak either.


ehh the cultural argument doesn't really work. and if you have lived a decent time here you would realise that beyond the political cultures and belives (e.g direct democraticy, legtimacy before legality and just in general a distaste for homogenic structures.) that under the line you still have an alpine southern germanic infront of you or southern french, or northern italian.

then again your average worker in switzerland has to make do with a lot less then the statistics state. (i wish i had the statistically 250'000 CHF on my bank account..... ) but it isn't as if the german state would not have similarly inflated statistics.
So if neither economics, nor culture can explain why Warhammer is popular in some places, but not in others, what can explain it?


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/05 03:30:09


Post by: Bloviator


Pretty happy that the extent of my GW involvement at this point is Titanicus. Expensive? Intensive. Incentive? Explosive. Hotel? Trivago.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/05 04:49:18


Post by: Argive


With average inflation the price per marine was roughly £2.50 in 1987.

So in 32 years there's been about £1 increase per marine broadly speaking.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/05 05:44:22


Post by: SeanDrake


 Argive wrote:
With average inflation the price per marine was roughly £2.50 in 1987.

So in 32 years there's been about £1 increase per marine broadly speaking.


Yeah but those marines were in a more expensive material and hand made as opposed to mass produced plastic. If you want to compare those marines then the odd remaining metal marine is around £15 so an 500% increase.

The box of 30 plastic marines for £9.99 I think would be the correct comparison and that goes a lot worse for GW be cause while £24.50 sounds ok that was for 30minis with a lot of options. The best case for GW is 3 tac boxes for £75 but in fairness they should be compared to primaris the most modern marines and that’s £105 a 300%+ rise

Also none of that takes into account the economy of scale that GW can bring to bare now or that I can almost guarantee that outside of the upper management that there wages have not even gone up anywhere close to inflation but let’s check. Oh my god i’m shocked I tell you shocked that despite the massively above inflation price increases that there salaries are massively under the increase in inflation unless of course all there store managers are on £24k a year, I can give you a hint to that question nope



Price Hike! @ 2019/07/05 06:12:35


Post by: Huron black heart


 Argive wrote:
With average inflation the price per marine was roughly £2.50 in 1987.

So in 32 years there's been about £1 increase per marine broadly speaking.


I don't know where you've got that cost.
I bought several of the box sets back then and 30 models were around £15 for plastics, blisters were around £3 for 3 lead models, this included captains, librarians etc. In fact I purchased Leman Russ and his two wolves for about that price too. No one's saying todays models aren't superior, that GW's overheads haven't increased or even that they shouldn't make a profit but things have gone too far with regards their pricing.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/05 06:15:52


Post by: Argive


Im simply pointing out out what the cost was per marine in 1987 based on bank of england inflation calculator.

You could argue that the price has gone up along with the level of detail etc. or spin it however you want because reasons.

40k has always and always will be expensive.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/05 06:21:20


Post by: Huron black heart


 Argive wrote:
Im simply pointing out out what the cost was per marine in 1987 based on bank of england inflation calculator.

You could argue that the price has gone up along with the level of detail etc. or spin it however you want because reasons.

40k has always and always will be expensive.


My point is your price per marine for 1987 is incorrect. And I don't do spin, reasons or not.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/05 06:23:51


Post by: Argive


 Huron black heart wrote:
 Argive wrote:
With average inflation the price per marine was roughly £2.50 in 1987.

So in 32 years there's been about £1 increase per marine broadly speaking.


I don't know where you've got that cost.
I bought several of the box sets back then and 30 models were around £15 for plastics, blisters were around £3 for 3 lead models, this included captains, librarians etc. In fact I purchased Leman Russ and his two wolves for about that price too. No one's saying todays models aren't superior, that GW's overheads haven't increased or even that they shouldn't make a profit but things have gone too far with regards their pricing.


Cost per marine was 75p in the very infancy days of RT in 86-89
http://www.solegends.com/citrt2/c100sms/index.htm

Use bank of england inflation calculator and you get a rough cost what the original way back marines were. Also take into account an increase in VAT to 17.5 in 1991.
These are pretty rough figues and the price has creeped up obviously.
But so has level of details arguably. However the options currently available in kits are lacking.

Its always been a very expensive hobby. I defintetly could not afford it properly as a kid. Its an upper market middle class hobby. The price increace is within tolerance of the target demographic...Its business.
I defo dont pay retail... Dont know whay you would unless you ahd no other options.



Price Hike! @ 2019/07/05 06:33:10


Post by: SeanDrake


 Argive wrote:
 Huron black heart wrote:
 Argive wrote:
With average inflation the price per marine was roughly £2.50 in 1987.

So in 32 years there's been about £1 increase per marine broadly speaking.


I don't know where you've got that cost.
I bought several of the box sets back then and 30 models were around £15 for plastics, blisters were around £3 for 3 lead models, this included captains, librarians etc. In fact I purchased Leman Russ and his two wolves for about that price too. No one's saying todays models aren't superior, that GW's overheads haven't increased or even that they shouldn't make a profit but things have gone too far with regards their pricing.


Cost per marine was 75p in the very infancy days of RT in 86-89
http://www.solegends.com/citrt2/c100sms/index.htm

Use bank of england inflation calculator and you get a rough cost what the original way back marines were. Also take into account an increase in VAT to 17.5 in 1991.
These are pretty rough figues and the price has creeped up obviously.
But so has level of details arguably. However the options currently available in kits are lacking.

Its always been a very expensive hobby. I defintetly could not afford it properly as a kid. Its an upper market middle class hobby. The price increace is within tolerance of the target demographic...Its business.
I defo dont pay retail... Dont know whay you would unless you ahd no other options.



Please see my above post as yours is either intentionally or unintentionally deceptive.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/05 06:34:21


Post by: Huron black heart


 Argive wrote:
 Huron black heart wrote:
 Argive wrote:
With average inflation the price per marine was roughly £2.50 in 1987.

So in 32 years there's been about £1 increase per marine broadly speaking.


I don't know where you've got that cost.
I bought several of the box sets back then and 30 models were around £15 for plastics, blisters were around £3 for 3 lead models, this included captains, librarians etc. In fact I purchased Leman Russ and his two wolves for about that price too. No one's saying todays models aren't superior, that GW's overheads haven't increased or even that they shouldn't make a profit but things have gone too far with regards their pricing.


Cost per marine was 75p in the very infancy days of RT in 86-89
http://www.solegends.com/citrt2/c100sms/index.htm

Use bank of england inflation calculator and you get a rough cost what the original way back marines were. Also take into account an increase in VAT to 17.5 in 1991.
These are pretty rough figues and the price has creeped up obviously.
But so has level of details arguably. However the options currently available in kits are lacking.

Its always been a very expensive hobby. I defintetly could not afford it properly as a kid. Its an upper market middle class hobby. The price increace is within tolerance of the target demographic...Its business.
I defo dont pay retail... Dont know whay you would unless you ahd no other options.



This is coming up a lot, don't pay retail and we'll accept the cost. But surely you realise your third party seller of choice is also hit by every price rise? I don't pay retail and even at -20% it's now too expensive. And I agree that it has both always been expensive and a non essential hobby item, but were do we call the line with their pricing?
That's several posts from me this morning, I'm meant to be at work and better get to : )


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/05 06:41:03


Post by: Argive


SeanDrake wrote:
 Argive wrote:
 Huron black heart wrote:
 Argive wrote:
With average inflation the price per marine was roughly £2.50 in 1987.

So in 32 years there's been about £1 increase per marine broadly speaking.


I don't know where you've got that cost.
I bought several of the box sets back then and 30 models were around £15 for plastics, blisters were around £3 for 3 lead models, this included captains, librarians etc. In fact I purchased Leman Russ and his two wolves for about that price too. No one's saying todays models aren't superior, that GW's overheads haven't increased or even that they shouldn't make a profit but things have gone too far with regards their pricing.


Cost per marine was 75p in the very infancy days of RT in 86-89
http://www.solegends.com/citrt2/c100sms/index.htm

Use bank of england inflation calculator and you get a rough cost what the original way back marines were. Also take into account an increase in VAT to 17.5 in 1991.
These are pretty rough figues and the price has creeped up obviously.
But so has level of details arguably. However the options currently available in kits are lacking.

Its always been a very expensive hobby. I defintetly could not afford it properly as a kid. Its an upper market middle class hobby. The price increace is within tolerance of the target demographic...Its business.
I defo dont pay retail... Dont know whay you would unless you ahd no other options.



Please see my above post as yours is either intentionally or unintentionally deceptive.


Edit - No Im not trying to be deceptive. I explained my logic and methodology.

I concluded that regardles, GW is riddicously expensive and always has been.
Its the point im trying to make. It has NEVER been a cheap hobby.

You have anomalies like battleforce boxes from 3rd party retailers equating to to buying a wraith knight and got £100 worth of models for free.... So theres that also. How do you factor that in.

It is grossly overcosted hobby for raw materials involved... I dont think anyone is going to try argue that! haha


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/05 06:56:28


Post by: Breton


redboi wrote:
Breton wrote:
 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, these increases are massive in part.
And then they want new players to enter the game.
But I guess plastic is pretty expensive and a hard Brexit is looming when Boris J. is taking over.


They feel massive. But only because they're coming all at once. If GW had incrementally upped the price every year, as opposed to a bigger up every several years most people wouldn't even notice it. Instead of realizing how many kits they bought over the past 10 years for $5-10 less than they should have, they're paying attention to yesterday's $40 instead of today's $45.

Say you buy Model Kit A every year. Starting at $20 going up $1 every year, and the price goes up $1 every year to a final price of $24. over 5 years you'll spend - 20, 21, 22, 23, and 24, or $110. If they raise the price $5 every 5 years you'll spend 20+20+20+20+25 = $105. But you're going to notice that $5 a lot more than that $10. You're thinking about how many $5's you're going to need for the future, now how many $5's you didn't pay the previous 5 years.


I don't know of any other companies that regularly increase the price of old merchandise. It's normally the opposite, prices go down over time.

Their investment into those kits is more than paid off at this point its almost pure profit


Gas/petrol goes up while its in the tank under the gas station is just one example. Most stock on the shelf goes up when the cost of replacing it in the warehouse goes up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 FeindusMaximus wrote:
The greed is kicking in again. It can't be all the cheep labor the UK keeps importing.
2008: AoBR, 5th ed, $50USD yielded 10tac, 5 terms, dread, cpt, 20 boys, 5 nobs, boss and 3 deffcopters.


The irony calling asking prices you don't want to pay greed is amusing. Why are they greedy for wanting more money to sell their stuff, but you're not for wanting to buy more of their stuff with less of your money?


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/05 07:05:46


Post by: Sir Heckington


As someone under the age of 18, no, I can't afford GW's prices. Especially not with these price raises. Could I get a job and afford some? Sure, I just wouldn't have any actual time to paint and play with them. Nor do my school work. GW's prices are very inaccessible to anyone under the age of 18, even kill team. Tis a shame, I've been very excited at the potential lost and damned release that are coming up. I've got some 40k models, mostly Tau, I'm planning on selling them (It's an SC and FW box), because there's just not a reasonable point that I can justify spending more on this game, when I still haven't played a single match (Except for online), and I've been putting every penny towards it for 2 years.

Now, I have no argument to make on weather GW's prices are reasonable or not, but what I can reasonably say is that most people under 18 aren't getting into this hobby. (Which sucks, as the models and lore are kick ass. No other game like it really.)


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/05 07:08:23


Post by: Breton


SeanDrake wrote:


Yeah but those marines were in a more expensive material and hand made as opposed to mass produced plastic. If you want to compare those marines then the odd remaining metal marine is around £15 so an 500% increase.




Ever wonder how much a metal mold and a plastic mold - and the other equipment - work out to? There's a reason characters stayed metal longer than the troops. Making a plastic model costs more to start.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/05 07:16:11


Post by: smurfORnot


 G00fySmiley wrote:
 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Time to shell out the $200 for that 3d printer....



10/10 highly reccomend. with the right settings a $200 printer can make models pretty close to GW quality. for $500 you can get one that does every bit the same detail as GW models




3d printed model...nuff said


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/05 07:21:34


Post by: Not Online!!!


Impressive. Probably should then invest there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Ginjitzu wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
Spoiler:
 Ginjitzu wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
 Ginjitzu wrote:
 wuestenfux wrote:
I just know as a kid or young person now, they've been completely priced out of the hobby - again without an influx of mommy/daddy cash. What high schooler will go and pay $60 for a box of ten Space Marines when $60 still gets you a full computer/Xbox/PS4 game? GW is on a roll now, but I suspect in 10-15 years there may be a reckoning. GW probably makes most of its money from 30-40 somethings with expendable income. In a decade or more, that base may not exist if they keep going bananas on this stuff. I'm already out, but I don't see many replacements coming up behind.

This is just one branch into the future - kids are priced out and the base of 30-40 years old is vanishing.
Seems reasonable, but the situation in our gaming group is different.
Players around 20 years old enter the hobby and the older guys are still there and dont show the slightest inclination to move away.
I wonder is that more of a reflection of Germany as a whole rather than just your gaming group. I'm not completely clued in the current economic status of Germany, but aren't you guys pretty much smashing it at the moment? My point being that in a strong economy with an enriched workforce and plenty of disposable income, Games-Workshop probably won't see too many sales drop off following a price rise, but in places where money's more tight, it probably won't take much for consumers to find something more affordable to buy with their hard earned.


If that were true, which it isn't, switzerland would be a gigantic relative market, altough the only Shop near me stated that ever since 7th the ammount of sales of 40k didn't nearly reach the levels beforehand.
Perhaps the Swiss just aren't interested in Warhammer? I'm sure there are also cultural reasons why some hobbies are more popular than others. In Ireland, for instance, which is a generally wealthy country, Warhammer always struggled to catch on in my town; the Irish, it seems, are only interested in football, Gaelic football, video games and drinking. Anything else is looked upon as suspicious and outlandish. Whereas here in Vietnam - a country that's only recently begun to develop a middle class, the hobby is burgeoning - at least in the two major cities - seemingly because the Vietnamese rarely judge each other on their hobbies.

Besides, if the Swiss outdoors are as beautiful as they look, and I lived there, I wouldn't be bothering with this nerdy gak either.


ehh the cultural argument doesn't really work. and if you have lived a decent time here you would realise that beyond the political cultures and belives (e.g direct democraticy, legtimacy before legality and just in general a distaste for homogenic structures.) that under the line you still have an alpine southern germanic infront of you or southern french, or northern italian.

then again your average worker in switzerland has to make do with a lot less then the statistics state. (i wish i had the statistically 250'000 CHF on my bank account..... ) but it isn't as if the german state would not have similarly inflated statistics.
So if neither economics, nor culture can explain why Warhammer is popular in some places, but not in others, what can explain it?


Availability and pricing.

Switzerland has one Partner Shop of GW, since gw never bothered to establish itself here.

Pricing, well take the questionable £>€ pricing, add another 20% even though you won't get 1.2 chf for 1€ and your basic box of CSM clocks in at 56.50 chf.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/05 07:48:08


Post by: wuestenfux


Well, 3D printing counteracts the price increases.
Less and less models will be sold in the future.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/05 07:53:45


Post by: Not Online!!!


 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, 3D printing counteracts the price increases.
Less and less models will be sold in the future.


I mean sure, but if the pricing of GW miniatures wouldn't be so astronomical, how many people would actually bother with 3D printing?

My guess would be a lot less.
Incidentaly the same is true for recasters. This would really lower the rate of these if the prices for fw /gw models would be lower.

Would it go away? Na. But it would be a non issue.
Infact it would probably have the same effect as piracy has shown to have for gaming, as a propper Demo.



Price Hike! @ 2019/07/05 10:29:58


Post by: SeanDrake


Breton wrote:
SeanDrake wrote:


Yeah but those marines were in a more expensive material and hand made as opposed to mass produced plastic. If you want to compare those marines then the odd remaining metal marine is around £15 so an 500% increase.




Ever wonder how much a metal mold and a plastic mold - and the other equipment - work out to? There's a reason characters stayed metal longer than the troops. Making a plastic model costs more to start.


None of that actually matters to what I was talking about regarding the inflation excuse for GW’s extortionate price rises, I was just pointing out the obvious fact that you cannot compare the original metals to modern plastics, you need to compare metals to metals and plastics to plastics if you must make excuses/comparisons for GW.

As for your question I am aware metal moulds are cheaper than hips moulds but also that the hips moulds last much longer and can be used for mass production. Again though i’m not sure that is relevant to using inflation as an excuse for massively above inflation price rises.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/05 11:09:22


Post by: Ginjitzu


Not Online!!! wrote:
Impressive. Probably should then invest there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Ginjitzu wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
Spoiler:
 Ginjitzu wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
 Ginjitzu wrote:
 wuestenfux wrote:
I just know as a kid or young person now, they've been completely priced out of the hobby - again without an influx of mommy/daddy cash. What high schooler will go and pay $60 for a box of ten Space Marines when $60 still gets you a full computer/Xbox/PS4 game? GW is on a roll now, but I suspect in 10-15 years there may be a reckoning. GW probably makes most of its money from 30-40 somethings with expendable income. In a decade or more, that base may not exist if they keep going bananas on this stuff. I'm already out, but I don't see many replacements coming up behind.

This is just one branch into the future - kids are priced out and the base of 30-40 years old is vanishing.
Seems reasonable, but the situation in our gaming group is different.
Players around 20 years old enter the hobby and the older guys are still there and dont show the slightest inclination to move away.
I wonder is that more of a reflection of Germany as a whole rather than just your gaming group. I'm not completely clued in the current economic status of Germany, but aren't you guys pretty much smashing it at the moment? My point being that in a strong economy with an enriched workforce and plenty of disposable income, Games-Workshop probably won't see too many sales drop off following a price rise, but in places where money's more tight, it probably won't take much for consumers to find something more affordable to buy with their hard earned.


If that were true, which it isn't, switzerland would be a gigantic relative market, altough the only Shop near me stated that ever since 7th the ammount of sales of 40k didn't nearly reach the levels beforehand.
Perhaps the Swiss just aren't interested in Warhammer? I'm sure there are also cultural reasons why some hobbies are more popular than others. In Ireland, for instance, which is a generally wealthy country, Warhammer always struggled to catch on in my town; the Irish, it seems, are only interested in football, Gaelic football, video games and drinking. Anything else is looked upon as suspicious and outlandish. Whereas here in Vietnam - a country that's only recently begun to develop a middle class, the hobby is burgeoning - at least in the two major cities - seemingly because the Vietnamese rarely judge each other on their hobbies.

Besides, if the Swiss outdoors are as beautiful as they look, and I lived there, I wouldn't be bothering with this nerdy gak either.


ehh the cultural argument doesn't really work. and if you have lived a decent time here you would realise that beyond the political cultures and belives (e.g direct democraticy, legtimacy before legality and just in general a distaste for homogenic structures.) that under the line you still have an alpine southern germanic infront of you or southern french, or northern italian.

then again your average worker in switzerland has to make do with a lot less then the statistics state. (i wish i had the statistically 250'000 CHF on my bank account..... ) but it isn't as if the german state would not have similarly inflated statistics.
So if neither economics, nor culture can explain why Warhammer is popular in some places, but not in others, what can explain it?


Availability and pricing.

Switzerland has one Partner Shop of GW, since gw never bothered to establish itself here.

Pricing, well take the questionable £>€ pricing, add another 20% even though you won't get 1.2 chf for 1€ and your basic box of CSM clocks in at 56.50 chf.
Then how do you explain the discrepancy between it's popularity in Vietnam and Ireland? Citadel miniatures are both readily available in Ireland (we share a land border with the UK), and are a lot more affordable as a proportion of average income, yet struggle to gain popularity, yet in Vietnam - which has 2 stockists nationally, and a much lower average income - the hobby is more popular than I ever experienced at home.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/05 11:49:36


Post by: Excommunicatus


That would be an ecumenical matter.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/05 12:02:59


Post by: G00fySmiley


Breton wrote:
SeanDrake wrote:


Yeah but those marines were in a more expensive material and hand made as opposed to mass produced plastic. If you want to compare those marines then the odd remaining metal marine is around £15 so an 500% increase.




Ever wonder how much a metal mold and a plastic mold - and the other equipment - work out to? There's a reason characters stayed metal longer than the troops. Making a plastic model costs more to start.


actually the funny part there is that it is getting cheaper and cheaper to do injection molded plastics. also if you design the models in a digital form you can print the "origional" to make the mold multiple times without worry of degradation. Heck you cna even 3d print functional molds right out if you want to go that route.

https://www.3dhubs.com/knowledge-base/3d-printing-low-run-injection-molds

smurfORnot wrote:
 G00fySmiley wrote:
 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Time to shell out the $200 for that 3d printer....



10/10 highly reccomend. with the right settings a $200 printer can make models pretty close to GW quality. for $500 you can get one that does every bit the same detail as GW models




3d printed model...nuff said


looks great! I have been churning out some custom counts as mega nobz once I finish painting them will probably post up. I even did a model for ghaz worthy of the character for a friend, he is basically the size of the front of a battlewagon, can't wait to see how he paints him.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/05 12:22:37


Post by: Breton


SeanDrake wrote:


None of that actually matters to what I was talking about regarding the inflation excuse for GW’s extortionate price rises, I was just pointing out the obvious fact that you cannot compare the original metals to modern plastics, you need to compare metals to metals and plastics to plastics if you must make excuses/comparisons for GW.

As for your question I am aware metal moulds are cheaper than hips moulds but also that the hips moulds last much longer and can be used for mass production. Again though i’m not sure that is relevant to using inflation as an excuse for massively above inflation price rises.


So the metal being more expensive than plastic matters, but changing up the moulds - and that production cost - does not?

Yeah but those marines were in a more expensive material and hand made as opposed to mass produced plastic


That is relevant, and you don't get to claim metal models are more expensive because metal prices, but plastic is cheaper because moulds don't count.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/06 17:01:52


Post by: Klickor


Breton wrote:
SeanDrake wrote:


None of that actually matters to what I was talking about regarding the inflation excuse for GW’s extortionate price rises, I was just pointing out the obvious fact that you cannot compare the original metals to modern plastics, you need to compare metals to metals and plastics to plastics if you must make excuses/comparisons for GW.

As for your question I am aware metal moulds are cheaper than hips moulds but also that the hips moulds last much longer and can be used for mass production. Again though i’m not sure that is relevant to using inflation as an excuse for massively above inflation price rises.


So the metal being more expensive than plastic matters, but changing up the moulds - and that production cost - does not?

Yeah but those marines were in a more expensive material and hand made as opposed to mass produced plastic


That is relevant, and you don't get to claim metal models are more expensive because metal prices, but plastic is cheaper because moulds don't count.


If a metal mould costs 10$ and must be redone after 10 casts it will cost 1$/cast for 10,10k and 100k. So the price of it would always be relevant.

A plastic mould might cost 100x more but would never have to be replaced. After 1000 casts its the same cost as the metal mould but after 10k casts its 1/10 and at GWs size it isnt hard for them to get to that break even number or pass it with a mile. For GW who is the biggest producer on the market the startup cost of those moulds isnt what is important. Its that they can use that same mould thousands of times since they are so big that the cost for each cast will in the end be much lower than that of the metal moulds and stuff like labor costs, shipping, storage etc will be the majority of the production costs. Wouldnt surprise me if its easier to use the plastic moulds compared to the metal moulds even further decreasing the costs due to being much more efficient as well.

For a smaller company plastic might increase costs for the consumer as a trade off for having easier to work with materials instead of metal. I think PP or some other company said that was a reason they used plastic more even if it didnt make stuff cheaper. This isnt true for GW as they produce enough to offset the costs of plastic. Just look at some of their older plastic kits that have been produced for around15to 20 years. The molds for those kits were expensive then but right now the average cost for each cast is almost nothing.

Their old metal models and the modern plastic might look comparable in price at a quick glance but the production cost today is way way lower than back then. We should have prices more in line with electronics. Each generation they become much better and cheaper. Our plastic models get slightly better over time but also more expensive even if they are cheaper than ever to make.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/06 19:06:34


Post by: Banville


 Ginjitzu wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
Impressive. Probably should then invest there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Ginjitzu wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
Spoiler:
 Ginjitzu wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
 Ginjitzu wrote:
 wuestenfux wrote:
I just know as a kid or young person now, they've been completely priced out of the hobby - again without an influx of mommy/daddy cash. What high schooler will go and pay $60 for a box of ten Space Marines when $60 still gets you a full computer/Xbox/PS4 game? GW is on a roll now, but I suspect in 10-15 years there may be a reckoning. GW probably makes most of its money from 30-40 somethings with expendable income. In a decade or more, that base may not exist if they keep going bananas on this stuff. I'm already out, but I don't see many replacements coming up behind.

This is just one branch into the future - kids are priced out and the base of 30-40 years old is vanishing.
Seems reasonable, but the situation in our gaming group is different.
Players around 20 years old enter the hobby and the older guys are still there and dont show the slightest inclination to move away.
I wonder is that more of a reflection of Germany as a whole rather than just your gaming group. I'm not completely clued in the current economic status of Germany, but aren't you guys pretty much smashing it at the moment? My point being that in a strong economy with an enriched workforce and plenty of disposable income, Games-Workshop probably won't see too many sales drop off following a price rise, but in places where money's more tight, it probably won't take much for consumers to find something more affordable to buy with their hard earned.


If that were true, which it isn't, switzerland would be a gigantic relative market, altough the only Shop near me stated that ever since 7th the ammount of sales of 40k didn't nearly reach the levels beforehand.
Perhaps the Swiss just aren't interested in Warhammer? I'm sure there are also cultural reasons why some hobbies are more popular than others. In Ireland, for instance, which is a generally wealthy country, Warhammer always struggled to catch on in my town; the Irish, it seems, are only interested in football, Gaelic football, video games and drinking. Anything else is looked upon as suspicious and outlandish. Whereas here in Vietnam - a country that's only recently begun to develop a middle class, the hobby is burgeoning - at least in the two major cities - seemingly because the Vietnamese rarely judge each other on their hobbies.

Besides, if the Swiss outdoors are as beautiful as they look, and I lived there, I wouldn't be bothering with this nerdy gak either.


ehh the cultural argument doesn't really work. and if you have lived a decent time here you would realise that beyond the political cultures and belives (e.g direct democraticy, legtimacy before legality and just in general a distaste for homogenic structures.) that under the line you still have an alpine southern germanic infront of you or southern french, or northern italian.

then again your average worker in switzerland has to make do with a lot less then the statistics state. (i wish i had the statistically 250'000 CHF on my bank account..... ) but it isn't as if the german state would not have similarly inflated statistics.
So if neither economics, nor culture can explain why Warhammer is popular in some places, but not in others, what can explain it?


Availability and pricing.

Switzerland has one Partner Shop of GW, since gw never bothered to establish itself here.

Pricing, well take the questionable £>€ pricing, add another 20% even though you won't get 1.2 chf for 1€ and your basic box of CSM clocks in at 56.50 chf.
Then how do you explain the discrepancy between it's popularity in Vietnam and Ireland? Citadel miniatures are both readily available in Ireland (we share a land border with the UK), and are a lot more affordable as a proportion of average income, yet struggle to gain popularity, yet in Vietnam - which has 2 stockists nationally, and a much lower average income - the hobby is more popular than I ever experienced at home.


Are you talking raw numbers or percentage of the population? Also, you'd be surprised how popular wargames ming is in Ireland. It's just most people play at home or in local clubs. The FLGS scene isn't a thing in Ireland, outside Dublin.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/08 08:22:38


Post by: Ginjitzu


Banville wrote:
Spoiler:
 Ginjitzu wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
Impressive. Probably should then invest there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Ginjitzu wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
 Ginjitzu wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
 Ginjitzu wrote:
 wuestenfux wrote:
I just know as a kid or young person now, they've been completely priced out of the hobby - again without an influx of mommy/daddy cash. What high schooler will go and pay $60 for a box of ten Space Marines when $60 still gets you a full computer/Xbox/PS4 game? GW is on a roll now, but I suspect in 10-15 years there may be a reckoning. GW probably makes most of its money from 30-40 somethings with expendable income. In a decade or more, that base may not exist if they keep going bananas on this stuff. I'm already out, but I don't see many replacements coming up behind.

This is just one branch into the future - kids are priced out and the base of 30-40 years old is vanishing.
Seems reasonable, but the situation in our gaming group is different.
Players around 20 years old enter the hobby and the older guys are still there and dont show the slightest inclination to move away.
I wonder is that more of a reflection of Germany as a whole rather than just your gaming group. I'm not completely clued in the current economic status of Germany, but aren't you guys pretty much smashing it at the moment? My point being that in a strong economy with an enriched workforce and plenty of disposable income, Games-Workshop probably won't see too many sales drop off following a price rise, but in places where money's more tight, it probably won't take much for consumers to find something more affordable to buy with their hard earned.


If that were true, which it isn't, switzerland would be a gigantic relative market, altough the only Shop near me stated that ever since 7th the ammount of sales of 40k didn't nearly reach the levels beforehand.
Perhaps the Swiss just aren't interested in Warhammer? I'm sure there are also cultural reasons why some hobbies are more popular than others. In Ireland, for instance, which is a generally wealthy country, Warhammer always struggled to catch on in my town; the Irish, it seems, are only interested in football, Gaelic football, video games and drinking. Anything else is looked upon as suspicious and outlandish. Whereas here in Vietnam - a country that's only recently begun to develop a middle class, the hobby is burgeoning - at least in the two major cities - seemingly because the Vietnamese rarely judge each other on their hobbies.

Besides, if the Swiss outdoors are as beautiful as they look, and I lived there, I wouldn't be bothering with this nerdy gak either.


ehh the cultural argument doesn't really work. and if you have lived a decent time here you would realise that beyond the political cultures and belives (e.g direct democraticy, legtimacy before legality and just in general a distaste for homogenic structures.) that under the line you still have an alpine southern germanic infront of you or southern french, or northern italian.

then again your average worker in switzerland has to make do with a lot less then the statistics state. (i wish i had the statistically 250'000 CHF on my bank account..... ) but it isn't as if the german state would not have similarly inflated statistics.
So if neither economics, nor culture can explain why Warhammer is popular in some places, but not in others, what can explain it?


Availability and pricing.

Switzerland has one Partner Shop of GW, since gw never bothered to establish itself here.

Pricing, well take the questionable £>€ pricing, add another 20% even though you won't get 1.2 chf for 1€ and your basic box of CSM clocks in at 56.50 chf.
Then how do you explain the discrepancy between it's popularity in Vietnam and Ireland? Citadel miniatures are both readily available in Ireland (we share a land border with the UK), and are a lot more affordable as a proportion of average income, yet struggle to gain popularity, yet in Vietnam - which has 2 stockists nationally, and a much lower average income - the hobby is more popular than I ever experienced at home.


Are you talking raw numbers or percentage of the population? Also, you'd be surprised how popular wargames ming is in Ireland. It's just most people play at home or in local clubs. The FLGS scene isn't a thing in Ireland, outside Dublin.
Fair point. I'm probably not taking enough account of the MASSIVE difference in population sizes.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/08 18:08:12


Post by: craggy


Shame they never stuck an extra fiver on a box of plastic Howling Banshees or Warp Spiders.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/08 18:13:02


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


I guess my question is, if you want people to buy the new stuff, you need to make it more appealing. You can do that one of two ways in this hobby:

1. Make the models cheaper
2. Make the units better rules-wise.

GW too the complete opposite approach and made the newer units inferior and then raised prices on older inventory they are trying to get rid of, because it's not making returns.

I don't understand it. Any frosh business major knows you don't attract sales of dead inventory by raising the cost.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/08 18:47:23


Post by: Elbows


But look at it this way.

GW has finite warehouse/storage and production space. Going forward their goal will be to replace/kill off older kits. The molds have long payed for themselves. The mold argument is no longer really relevant for 95% of the stuff GW produces. Back when they were a smaller company run by geeks, etc. it was a consideration, particularly in the early days of plastics. Now, any figure they produce will easily make back their mold cost.

So the old and less interesting kits are just icing on the cake really. If they sell them, good. If not...eh, kill the kit off in a few years and replace it. Couple this with GW going from strength to strength and they barely need to worry about it. A new player who dives into the game doesn't have a bit of concern or knowledge over how old a kit is. To them, it's brand new and awesome. A brand new player doesn't see a difference between a Primaris kit and a box of five Dire Avengers (which used to be cheaper...for double the models). It's non-factor to them. Older players aren't buying them, but mainly because they already own them.

If GW can price hike old kits and people still buy them, GW is just laughing all the way to the bank. It's free money.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/08 18:51:04


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


 Elbows wrote:
But look at it this way.

GW has finite warehouse/storage and production space. Going forward their goal will be to replace/kill off older kits. The molds have long payed for themselves. The mold argument is no longer really relevant for 95% of the stuff GW produces. Back when they were a smaller company run by geeks, etc. it was a consideration, particularly in the early days of plastics. Now, any figure they produce will easily make back their mold cost.

So the old and less interesting kits are just icing on the cake really. If they sell them, good. If not...eh, kill the kit off in a few years and replace it. Couple this with GW going from strength to strength and they barely need to worry about it. A new player who dives into the game doesn't have a bit of concern or knowledge over how old a kit is. To them, it's brand new and awesome. A brand new player doesn't see a difference between a Primaris kit and a box of five Dire Avengers (which used to be cheaper...for double the models). It's non-factor to them. Older players aren't buying them, but mainly because they already own them.

If GW can price hike old kits and people still buy them, GW is just laughing all the way to the bank. It's free money.


Right, that's all well and good for models that are SELLING.

NO ONE is buying:

Drop pods
Furioso Dreads
Start Collecting boxes of Scions
Hydras
Dreadknights

and all the other crap on that list. Why raise prices on stuff no one wants?

It's like raising the cost of the salad options at McDonalds. Not one of these fatties wants a salad.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/08 18:55:00


Post by: Elbows


Precisely why I said...those kits are due to be replaced by Primaris versions. They've already made back heaps of money on those molds. They don't need to sell them. They'll be killed off in a few years anyway.

Again, new players walk in and see those "old" kits and buy them anyway - and they buy them at new prices because they haven't a clue.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/08 19:06:40


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


Ok, so I'm trying to point out something, business ethos dictates you don't let inventory sit. If they have millions of unused inventory, they can't just be like, "Oh well!"

They need to sell that off, or eat the the losses which make investors upset, twitchy, or drop. That is bad. So you sell that, usually at COST, and make back even while promoting new stuff.

None of that is happening, and GW is sitting on warehouses full of pressed models from 2008 in boxes that may or may not even be legal now.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/08 19:27:16


Post by: Apple Peel


 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
 Elbows wrote:
But look at it this way.

GW has finite warehouse/storage and production space. Going forward their goal will be to replace/kill off older kits. The molds have long payed for themselves. The mold argument is no longer really relevant for 95% of the stuff GW produces. Back when they were a smaller company run by geeks, etc. it was a consideration, particularly in the early days of plastics. Now, any figure they produce will easily make back their mold cost.

So the old and less interesting kits are just icing on the cake really. If they sell them, good. If not...eh, kill the kit off in a few years and replace it. Couple this with GW going from strength to strength and they barely need to worry about it. A new player who dives into the game doesn't have a bit of concern or knowledge over how old a kit is. To them, it's brand new and awesome. A brand new player doesn't see a difference between a Primaris kit and a box of five Dire Avengers (which used to be cheaper...for double the models). It's non-factor to them. Older players aren't buying them, but mainly because they already own them.

If GW can price hike old kits and people still buy them, GW is just laughing all the way to the bank. It's free money.


Right, that's all well and good for models that are SELLING.

NO ONE is buying:

Drop pods
Furioso Dreads
Start Collecting boxes of Scions
Hydras
Dreadknights

and all the other crap on that list. Why raise prices on stuff no one wants?

It's like raising the cost of the salad options at McDonalds. Not one of these fatties wants a salad.

Actually, I’m buying Scion boxes. Scions and all the bits and the Tauroxes are quite popular for conversions, so I believe others are buying them, too.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/08 19:30:49


Post by: Elbows


 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Ok, so I'm trying to point out something, business ethos dictates you don't let inventory sit. If they have millions of unused inventory, they can't just be like, "Oh well!"

They need to sell that off, or eat the the losses which make investors upset, twitchy, or drop. That is bad. So you sell that, usually at COST, and make back even while promoting new stuff.

None of that is happening, and GW is sitting on warehouses full of pressed models from 2008 in boxes that may or may not even be legal now.


Are they? Where is your information coming from? Because your buddies aren't buying certain kits? GW and only GW knows what they are, and are not selling. Unless you have some inside information. You're basing everything you're complaining about on what info?


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/08 19:44:05


Post by: G00fySmiley


 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
 Elbows wrote:
But look at it this way.

GW has finite warehouse/storage and production space. Going forward their goal will be to replace/kill off older kits. The molds have long payed for themselves. The mold argument is no longer really relevant for 95% of the stuff GW produces. Back when they were a smaller company run by geeks, etc. it was a consideration, particularly in the early days of plastics. Now, any figure they produce will easily make back their mold cost.

So the old and less interesting kits are just icing on the cake really. If they sell them, good. If not...eh, kill the kit off in a few years and replace it. Couple this with GW going from strength to strength and they barely need to worry about it. A new player who dives into the game doesn't have a bit of concern or knowledge over how old a kit is. To them, it's brand new and awesome. A brand new player doesn't see a difference between a Primaris kit and a box of five Dire Avengers (which used to be cheaper...for double the models). It's non-factor to them. Older players aren't buying them, but mainly because they already own them.

If GW can price hike old kits and people still buy them, GW is just laughing all the way to the bank. It's free money.


Right, that's all well and good for models that are SELLING.

NO ONE is buying:

Drop pods
Furioso Dreads
Start Collecting boxes of Scions
Hydras
Dreadknights

and all the other crap on that list. Why raise prices on stuff no one wants?

It's like raising the cost of the salad options at McDonalds. Not one of these fatties wants a salad.


*puts on tinfoil hat*

notice it s alot of older kits and the leak in price drops happens pretty far in advance and was almost completely accurate. Perhaps GW had a lot of these units takign up shelf space so decided to increase prices on them so people would order them before the price bumps thus clearing warehouse space and now with the increased price the few they have left will be at a higher markup.


Price Hike! @ 2019/07/09 14:47:19


Post by: FezzikDaBullgryn


 G00fySmiley wrote:
 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
 Elbows wrote:
But look at it this way.

GW has finite warehouse/storage and production space. Going forward their goal will be to replace/kill off older kits. The molds have long payed for themselves. The mold argument is no longer really relevant for 95% of the stuff GW produces. Back when they were a smaller company run by geeks, etc. it was a consideration, particularly in the early days of plastics. Now, any figure they produce will easily make back their mold cost.

So the old and less interesting kits are just icing on the cake really. If they sell them, good. If not...eh, kill the kit off in a few years and replace it. Couple this with GW going from strength to strength and they barely need to worry about it. A new player who dives into the game doesn't have a bit of concern or knowledge over how old a kit is. To them, it's brand new and awesome. A brand new player doesn't see a difference between a Primaris kit and a box of five Dire Avengers (which used to be cheaper...for double the models). It's non-factor to them. Older players aren't buying them, but mainly because they already own them.

If GW can price hike old kits and people still buy them, GW is just laughing all the way to the bank. It's free money.


Right, that's all well and good for models that are SELLING.

NO ONE is buying:

Drop pods
Furioso Dreads
Start Collecting boxes of Scions
Hydras
Dreadknights

and all the other crap on that list. Why raise prices on stuff no one wants?

It's like raising the cost of the salad options at McDonalds. Not one of these fatties wants a salad.


*puts on tinfoil hat*

notice it s alot of older kits and the leak in price drops happens pretty far in advance and was almost completely accurate. Perhaps GW had a lot of these units takign up shelf space so decided to increase prices on them so people would order them before the price bumps thus clearing warehouse space and now with the increased price the few they have left will be at a higher markup.


That is actually a sound theory, I can't speak to how advanced GW's mind games are with it's consumers.

I know that 4 years of business school went out the window when the US fiscal crash happened. They pumped up the "value" of garbage assets, and sold them like diamonds. But that was stock traders. Trying to pull that level of shenanigans with plastic models on an extremely niche market would be unprecedented.

And very little in the game is unprecedented.