This came up in another thread where a poster said they were effectively price immune to GWs price rises.
This can be for several reasons:

Too rich too care
Not that rich but Gws increases arent significant enough to you
Have very large collections already so only ever need 1-2 units to complete armies / update armies
Dont buy from GW (ebay, 3rd party, swaps etc)

I find myself falling into #2/3 - GW do and have increased prices but they dont wreck my monthly bank balance so I collect away. I also have fairly large collections so if they raise prices on kit ABCD, I probably only need A.

What about yee?

Yes and no. 40k is the only game in town, so no choice but to buy unless I want to play with myself. But gws price hikes are ridiculous and we keep letting them get away with it.

Firmly in category 3 and 4. I only collect Eldar so buying new units is a rarity as I have most anyway and if I do go looking for more Eldar I head for eBay.

Blackstone Fortress is the only stuff I'm actively collecting so I would say I'm a little bit in cat 2 because of how infrequent they release content for it.

All four, to be honest.

Though I would describe #1 as being less "too rich to care" but more that miniature wargaming has always been pricey, and I've always sort of understood and accepted this. I earn enough to be able to afford the hobby, and I don't ever spend out of my means, but I cut back a little in other areas - I used to refresh my mobile phone every 2 years, for example, while I'm going on 4 with my current one at this point.

Only new stuff I buy are the WU Warbands. Those are a reasonable price for a GW product. Aside from those last 40k thing I bought was a second Betrayal at Calth box set and that was roughly a year ago. I was tempted to buy some more Cataphratii Terminators... but at €52 for 5, I think I'll pass.

I am at the point where I am waiting to see how Apocalypse does before I think of adding more to my collection, if I do add more it will be through eBay. A sonic cleaner and Methylated Spirits will happily strip even the worst paint job found on eBay.

Somewhat 2 and 3. I have good enough of a job that this doesn't ruin my plans excessively. However, I will buy more strategically and only buy what little I need. Maybe it's the ADHD in me but I have a tendency to start an army on a dime. This price rice has however curbed that. Was thinking of starting Gutbusters but now I'll sit pretty and just wait and only commit a lot of money when Sisters come out.

I also tend to buy second hand stuff when I can as I have a soft nostalgia for the old stuff.

I've got a combination of a large collection, and a fourth option - I don't buy much faster than I can assemble and paint, so money isn't the reason I'm not buying faster.

Yeah, I've got probably over 10,000 points of stuff painted at this point, and for a while I've just been doing paint commissions to pay for any hobby purchases I make. So it's just kind of a blip for me.

All four. In the fortunate position to be able to buy whatever they offer, therefore increases are not a factor, but my collections are large enough that I don’t _ have _ to add to them, and they are mostly RT models anyway so if I do add it’s via second hand.

My spending in GW stores is minimal - just the monthly purchase to justify using their table.

also kind of al lof it. I have so many armies and only need a kit every now and again. I have been buying 1 box a month for over a decade. back when i started playing kits were cheaper but much more expensive as I was not making nearly as much as I am now.

I have been 3d printing a lot of terrain and counts as but still do about a box a month and could do more but I already have a back catalog of things to paint pretty big.

Kind of all?

So long as I enjoy the hobby, I'll continue to cough up.

It's been 30 years, so I think that's me in for life now

Ratius wrote:This came up in another thread where a poster said they were effectively price immune to GWs price rises.
This can be for several reasons:

Too rich too care
Not that rich but Gws increases arent significant enough to you
Have very large collections already so only ever need 1-2 units to complete armies / update armies
Dont buy from GW (ebay, 3rd party, swaps etc)

I find myself falling into #2/3 - GW do and have increased prices but they dont wreck my monthly bank balance so I collect away. I also have fairly large collections so if they raise prices on kit ABCD, I probably only need A.

What about yee?

None of the above, I think. There should be a 5th option:
Is willing to save up for a little longer to get what I want.

Aside from this 5th option, I suppose I'm a combination of 2 and 3 - the increases aren't big enough that I couldn't save for them, and I've already got large armies that require a few units to bring to what I'd call "complete".

Yes I am.
#3 and #4.

More from necessity than choice, but once you picked up a good habit, you won't let it go.

Despite being able to afford to buy GW retail (not rich, but I make a good living), I buy almost everything used and second hand. At times, I've even bought full collections and resold big chunks while keeping what I want. It takes some hustle (and I was living in a good area for used GW), but I've been able to build a stack of shame for pennies on the dollar.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
None of the above, I think. There should be a 5th option:
Is willing to save up for a little longer to get what I want.

To me that sounds like you are affected by the price. I think if you're delaying purchases, you aren't really price immune.

Not price immune. I definitely would have bought that recent Comissar, and a few of the Genestealer Cult bikers if not for the prices.

Price immune here, money has never been a issue nor will it be for my part.

Too rich to care. Wargaming is a cheap hobby, $5 differences aren't worth my time to consider.

#2,3 & 4 for me.

For a good while I didn’t have the money for GW, but life has been rather good to me. I bargain hunt where and when I can, but in the end I can drop a plump sum on GW for some models. I just don’t like to because that money tend to go so much further with other pursuits.

I would not call myself „too rich to care” but considering that all of my other hobbies/passions are so much more costly, GW prices were never an issue for me. And when going for „hours of fun per buck” metric this is literally one of the cheapest hobbies in my life.

It's completely irrelevant.

For a lot of older players, myself included, we get to a point in life where we go through a reorganization of priorities; and things like hobby costs are more closely evaluated, largely irrespective of financial well-being.

To me it's more psychological than an actual economic barrier. Sure I could afford to start that astra militarum army I sometimes want, but then again going into perry and pendraken miniatures and new rule systems, the cost is comparably tiny. The money is there, but why spend lots on 40k when I see similar but cheaper products elsewhere...?

I still happily play my existing 40k collections though. Black templars and orks forever!

Not price immune, will probably switch beyond some very specific kits.
Meaning that i will probably not order some thing's i'd have.

I don't have as much time as I used to, and try to put more effort into my painting.
Lately, I've been painting ~1 mini/week. I could paint just clampack characters and it still wouldn't impact my finances (I don't buy minis I'm not going to paint).
But I still wouldn't buy anything GW puts out. I'm not buying the new BSF expansion mostly because of the price. I just can't see how that's worth what they're asking for. If this was the only kit in town, or everything else was at that price point, I would buy it, since I can afford it. But as it stands, it's not priced properly relatively to the market.

Price immune but I hate feeling like I'm being taken advantage of.

I also have a rather large collection but I just can't help myself from buying the new "hotness" (relative term for marines) but that will stop now as the whole vote with your wallet thing speaks to me.

I'll stick strictly to ebay/buddies/used models if GW comes out with that new SM codex and there's some must have OP nonsense that I don't already have in triplicate but I'll probably stop chasing the meta for a while now.

Nope. I'm a poor and being alive in a capitalist system is, per se, expensive without considering frivolities like trying to better my situation or that of others, let alone luxuries like plastic crack.

A $10 increase makes a radical difference to my purchasing plans.

I'm effectively price immune to GW's increases. I've got enough disposable income that an extra $50-$60 a month won't stop me.

I'm unlikely to buy an entire army at once anymore, having sunk a ton of money into it to get started, so it's generally just a model or two per month at this point.

My GW budget is relatively fixed for each year, so it won't make me spend less, just buy fewer things.
Though as I'm very slow to assemble and paint, and I never buy anything new till I've finished painting everything I already have, the price increases will likely not affect me much either way.

Actually, yes.
A price rise by a few Euros is not a problem and it shouldn't be by a 40k addicted gamer.

I'm not, but oddly I'm in a better place now to buy hobby products than before - and I'm no longer buying GW products. I have the money but I don't believe GW's products are worth the money they ask for them.

If the game was better I'd still be interested but always finding alternate ways to get models without paying the extremely questionable GW MSRP. As it stands the game simply isn't making me want to go out and find a way around it.

This is like that old "gas prices" joke. Everyone complains about the price going up, but you can still just spend $5 at the pump, so no big deal, right?
I mean, you get less gas, but you don't HAVE to spend more, so why complain?

But on a serious note, This is kinda how I feel about it. I've already slowed down my purchases for other reasons, so I'm virtually immune to a price increase from that perspective.
I'll still buy the odd WD or new kit, but overall, there are 3 reasons why the increase doesn't really "affect" me:
1) I don't make larger purchases any more. As above, I've already got a fairly full collection
2) The few purchases I don't make were never on kits more than $50 anyway and
3) I can count on 1, maybe both hands the purchases I EVER made directly from GW. I buy from my LGS which sells as a discount, or scout out eBay deals (which admittedly may be affected by this increase).

-

@OP:

Yeah, pretty much immune. The last model that I bought in 2018 for the GW hobby was a Vampiress on foot for my Lahmia army. I haven´t bought a GW model in 2019 yet. My collection is pretty much complete and I will only buy stuff that really intrigues me like the revamped version of Sly Marbo or the vintage chaos warrior with two axes.

I'm inbetween 2 & 3. Willing to spend the money on stuff I like ($ dependant) but also have a large collection that I want specific units for.

I've recently started a Flawless Host warband, only due to shadowspear having new stuff for my Salamanders that I liked. I look at the chaos stuff as a cool bonus & had been not really looking at getting of the current models, so when shadowspear came out with great looking models it kinda made sense.

But I'm not spending any more $ on models until Sororitas are released & after that only on upgrades etc... The way their prices are going will take me from 1-2 boxes month(not including splash releases w cool stuff) to 3-4 a year.

I have other hobbies that I've been neglecting and need to get back into it.

Currently I have 2 separate armies that I can make 2k lists from. So I'm not needing additions, I want additions. I like the collecting/building/painting aspects more than the game, but I do like playing the game and my armies look great on the table.

Mostly price immune to GW... There's only one model they sell that is too rich for my own tastes. The rest I feel are reasonably priced, or I'm just not interested in buying them.

One model alone is overpriced to my own tastes; the Skryre Acolyte Model. 20$ for a pretty 'meh' old metal model, and you need at least 5 of them for a minimum squad that's worth 60pts. As comparison, 10 Dryads are 100 points... God, .6 points per dollar spent. Obscene.

Mostly 1 and 3. I have the cash to spend a few grand tomorrow with no ill affects, but I don't need to and would rather spend it on something for my daughter. Although in a year or so that might be a 40k army.

1: Too rich too care
2: Not that rich but Gws increases arent significant enough to you
3: Have very large collections already so only ever need 1-2 units to complete armies / update armies
4: Dont buy from GW (ebay, 3rd party, swaps etc)

1: In the past, yes. No real responsibilities and a well paying job meant all the disposable income I wanted. Now, that well paying job takes care of responsibilities and I'm not really *inclined* to blow my (less available) fun money on GW without thinking.

2: When I do decide to buy something, I know what I'm buying and I know that I want it. I probably spend $200 CAD or less on GW in a year. So, like, 3 things.

3: I have a sufficiently large IG collection I don't *need* to buy anything, and I like the models I collect and am willing to play non-optimal builds with models I like to put on the table.

4: I bought all the Retribution (WMH) models I'd ever need over the last year through EBay, and it cost me next to nothing. I don't mind stripping models, and would likely do the same for 40k in the future.

'Price immune from GW'? Yep.

'Price immune from FW'? Nope. If you think I am dropping £1,000+ on a titan guess again. Not that I can't but as I get older life has other priorities e.g. mortgage.

Mostly category 2. I make enough money that buying GW product isn't going to impact my finances in any meaningful fashion.

That said, I do balk at the $45 CAD character models, especially when I can easily convert a $7 CAD model to do the same job.

Not at all. I just graduated from college, no way in hell can I afford GW prices. Even if I could, I would still spend my money elsewhere- GW kits are all priced around twice what would be reasonable. (at minimum)

mostly 3, not having played since mid-7th and being CWE Eldar player the only models I've bought of late are a jetseer and the Ynnead box

the seer was a bit pricey imo but placcy bikes are just better than my old metal ones due to their handy knack of not falling over if you blink at them

plus GW prices hikes makes my other games seem more reasonable (not you PP !)

I would place my self in the "rich but self made through hard work so i still value my money" category.

I have enough disposable income to afford the increases but I do find it hard to swallow when you compare the spending to other things. Eg. I want 4 Skorpius Disintegrators to add to my Stygies. That's $500 aud vs $550 aud for a Playstation Pro with game. I feel sorry for kids/students cause I could afford to buy a box of 20 guardsman with paper run money when I started this hobby. That's like $100 now.


It's $110 aud for 10 death korps infantry. $1100 just for the infantry section of one list. Its crazy when you start adding it up.


So yeah, im all for shopping around. The Australian retail prices are horrible so you can get a way better deal and if you are willing to put in a bit of elbow grease, a few dollars worth of simple green and some smart purchases can save you thousands in the long run.

It won't stop me from buy WHAT I want, it'll just keep from buying AS MANY as I want.

 Ratius wrote:
This came up in another thread where a poster said they were effectively price immune to GWs price rises.
This can be for several reasons:

Too rich too care
Not that rich but Gws increases arent significant enough to you
Have very large collections already so only ever need 1-2 units to complete armies / update armies
Dont buy from GW (ebay, 3rd party, swaps etc)

I find myself falling into #2/3 - GW do and have increased prices but they dont wreck my monthly bank balance so I collect away. I also have fairly large collections so if they raise prices on kit ABCD, I probably only need A.

What about yee?

I would say probably yes.

Fundamentally, the plastic soldiers aren't very expensive. Something like half a week skiing or a two-way ticket to HI can cost more than a whole army. Or eating out. If I ate out less and cooked more, it would be trivial to afford more minis: eating out once a week to the tune of $10 could easily buy a squad of guardsmen every month, which is faster than I can paint them. It felt really expensive as a kid, but it doesn't seem very expensive for an employed single adult. [Disclaimer, is a grad student, not an employed single adult.]

That said, it is the kids who need to be able to afford it to sustain the hobby, so the price increase may not be a good thing. I think it's understandable, though, given the impending political-economic catastrophe that GW is about to be unhappily a part of.

buzzedaldrin wrote:


I have enough disposable income to afford the increases but I do find it hard to swallow when you compare the spending to other things. Eg. I want 4 Skorpius Disintegrators to add to my Stygies. That's $500 aud vs $550 aud for a Playstation Pro with game. I feel sorry for kids/students cause I could afford to buy a box of 20 guardsman with paper run money when I started this hobby. That's like $100 now.

This brings up one other thing about me and why I'm fairly price immue. I would pick the hypothetical 4 tanks over a console any day.

I always had a hard time paying for gw. I gathered a large collection in my late teens and early twenties. I started using my models to run games as part of a youth recreation program at the local Boys' and Girls' club, supplying the models so that kids who couldn't afford to play could still get the chance; not everybody in youth rec is good at basketball, and the bad to mediocre athletes tended to LOVE Necromunda and 40K.

A lot of that original 2nd ed collection ended up getting donated to those kids, and others got sold, but I kept all the metal Escher and Delaque [full collection], a fair amount of metal Genestealer Cult [the Throned Patriarch is the pride of my collection]. I also kept some old metal chaos marines and daemons and a handful of tyranids.

From 2007- 2009, I shared a house with a buddy who had a dedicated painting room, and we probably blitz painted HUNDREDS of Tyranids for the first wave of apocalypse. That was where I built my sizable Witch Hunter army. I also added to my legacy model count by incorporating 30-40 Adeptus Arbites models, including a few from the Marauder Range. I also picked up a solid core for Daemons of Slaanesh, Including 20 of the classic daemonettes [the range where GW dialed down daemonic and dialed up the alluring]. Those were OOP at the time, and if they hadn't been a part of the deal, I would never have bought the army. Last but not least, a added a bit to my tyranids.

And then GW stopped paying attention to sisters, so I stopped buying. I did get a Space Hulk box set, but that was it from 2009 until they brought back the Genestealer Cult. Then they announced sisters.

I have both a GW and an FLGS within my shopping range. My FLGS marks down 5% from the GW, and sells annual memberships for $25 which confer a further 15% discount on everything in the store.

I bought a membership in December, and it's already paid more than four times its value in discounts. I got Blackstone Fortress, Tooth and Claw, Starn's Disciples, the kill team book, the commanders set, and dexes for GSC, Chaos Daemons, Astra Militarum and Dark Eldar. I will be buying a lot more.

[Kill Team Rogue Trader, ALL of the Blackstone Expansions, the Kill Team Elites book, a start collecting Cadians box, a Valkyrie, Inquistor Karamavov PLUS whatever drops in the sisters release]

I couldn't do it without the discounts. I'd still buy, but I'd have to buy WAY less, and end up with far less money.

Due to Soup and interactions of scale, this burst of purchasing has expanded my playing options more than I ever thought possible. I have dozens of playable kill teams,and I think I can Imperial Soup to 4000 points, or maybe even 5k. I've got a good core Genestealer Cult, great Chaos Soup, including a sizeable stand alone daemons of slaanesh army.

I will Ebay, but only OOP originals. I do 3rd party, but very, very rarely- I have all the Wargames Exclusive Repentia and a female Cullexus; I want the Raging Heroes War Pulpit, but I'm waiting for the sisters release to see if we get a Lord of War option in the new dex.

TLDR:
- I buy in bursts, going hard when they support the armies I love and light when they don't, all the way back to 1990.
-This leaves me with a large collection, but that doesn't stop me from buying more
- I will Ebay and 3rd party, but rarely and very, very selectively

Category 5: must save up to buy one or two things each year.
Moneys is tight for me and with family I have to put it in more important places. I've been saving up since they were announced but between unexpected emergency bills and time off work to injury, I have maybe 100 bucks saved up for the plastic sisters release at the moment.

Effectively, I am not geedubs target consumer.

I would never class myself as "too rich to care" you'd need to be a real fool to classify yourself in that way. even if you literally had millions in your account, in my opinion of course.

There have been a few examples recently where I just didn't think the product was worth the price tag. I think the £22.50 price tag for the Primaris characters was a step too far and I think you can see that GW has seen this as they have gone for £20 pounds since then.

Generally speaking, I still think that GW is pretty affordable and I don't spend any real time thinking about the price.

I walked away from GW prices maybe 4 years ago, but kept an active interest up until about 2 years ago. I've contemplated getting some kits just cause they look cool... but then I just bought a Gundam model instead.

#2,3,and 4.

Though largely at the moment I'm not immune to the price rises, just immune to what's being released

Not exactly immune, but mostly unaffected. I have 3 fairly expensive hobbies and already have more grey plastic than I could paint in 5 years at the current rate of progress. I haven't played a single game since 8th dropped, mostly because of a combination of not enough time or interest, so my armies don't really need anything.

I still buy the odd box here and there if I really want it, like the recent Sector Sanctorus box for the terrain.

 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:
'Price immune from GW'? Yep.

'Price immune from FW'? Nope. If you think I am dropping £1,000+ on a titan guess again. Not that I can't but as I get older life has other priorities e.g. mortgage.

I'm play immune from Forgeworld. I could buy a Titan. But what would I do with it? I mean its what, 6,000 points? The whole $5,000 maniple is 18,000 points? When am I going to play an 18,000 point game?

A bit of all of those things. I earn good money, and so does my fiancee. That will change in September when I drop to four days/week, but we still won't be poor. I have a HUGE collection already, and I only buy from GW what I can't get from eBay or Dark Sphere, or my friends.

Where do you go to eat out for $10?

1973?

 Excommunicatus wrote:
Where do you go to eat out for $10?

1973?

10 bucks a person isn't that extreme. You can eat at McDonalds - two McChicken and a large soda for $4. Sub shops have $5 sandwiches. A large Pho around here is about $8

I probably can't afford to buy GW. but it isn't stopping me.

I see no way that this ends badly and you can't convince me otherwise.

The only GW I have bought this year other than the re released FW paints is my conquest subscription.
GW stuff has past the point I consider it as having value, with the money I saved Put towards my other hobby of PC gaming I have bought a 1tb sad, a RTX 2080ti gfx card and a 34” ultrawide Alienware monitor. I still even had money left over which is crazy when the more expensive alternative is toy soldiers.

Too rich too care
Not that rich but Gws increases arent significant enough to you
Have very large collections already so only ever need 1-2 units to complete armies / update armies
Dont buy from GW (ebay, 3rd party, swaps etc)

Too rich (but ask my wife).
Not that rich but GW price increases are not significant enough.
Have a large collection of armies so that I only buy 1 or 2 units per month.
Buy only from GW (our retailer).

 Excommunicatus wrote:
Where do you go to eat out for $10?

1973?

Fairly recently I've eaten ramen for ~$16, pho for ~$10, and diner food for ~$7-$11.

For a while I lived on a budget of 10$ week for food. Right about 1999/2000. Nowadays I'll spend half that on a coffee. Life is strange.

Semi-immune. I'd put together a shortlist of forgeworld to pad out my mechanicus/custodes despite the cost... and then GW hiked everything by 5% save for the biggest item on the list which they flat out discontinued. Killed my interest even though it's not a big change.

4, unless 3, unless 2, but then 1...

 Thadin wrote:
Mostly price immune to GW... There's only one model they sell that is too rich for my own tastes. The rest I feel are reasonably priced, or I'm just not interested in buying them.

One model alone is overpriced to my own tastes; the Skryre Acolyte Model. 20$ for a pretty 'meh' old metal model, and you need at least 5 of them for a minimum squad that's worth 60pts. As comparison, 10 Dryads are 100 points... God, .6 points per dollar spent. Obscene.

Don't ever play orks then. Boyz are now about 2 points per dollar spent. And you need about 100 of them. Mek guns are about half a point per dollar

Emperor protect anyone trying to start out 40k these days

I buy off ebay or other non gw sources and i dont use gw paints. Rules like the apocalypse box is about all the money they get from me.

redboi wrote:


Emperor protect anyone trying to start out 40k these days

I think this is the key, and the problem. I can absorb the price increase, I already have multiple large collections [so buying a single box at a time is feasible, since I can buy it, paint it, and play it without also having to buy a starter force to go with it], and I'm not living hand-to-mouth.

However, a high schooler or middle schooler, the people who really need to be picking this up, can't afford to get into the hobby on internship/summer job money..

I stopped buying because of bad game design and principle. When the new cool Cryptek was released I liked the model, so I decided it was a $20 item and found one at under that price with free delivery on eBay.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

redboi wrote:


Emperor protect anyone trying to start out 40k these days

I think this is the key, and the problem. I can absorb the price increase, I already have multiple large collections [so buying a single box at a time is feasible, since I can buy it, paint it, and play it without also having to buy a starter force to go with it], and I'm not living hand-to-mouth.

However, a high schooler or middle schooler, the people who really need to be picking this up, can't afford to get into the hobby on internship/summer job money..

I made this point in the other thread as well. I almost never see teens or college students in the hobby shops around here anymore. It's almost exclusively people in their mid 20's-30's who either have good careers or have collected for decades. Younger kids wander in from time to time, but turn right around out the door as soon as they ask about prices. There is very little young blood coming in, in contrast to when I started in the early 2000's when the shops were populated by tons of high schoolers every weekend.


That is who the price hikes hurt the most and it's not good for the longevity of the game at all. I can make do just fine never buying an outrageously overpriced GW kit ever again, and occasionally sniping ebay when I see a good deal on something I like.

Yes. But only in the sense my backlog is so vast I haven't bought anything for months and it's still years of kits to work on.

This does show why some people don't care GW can be such a rip off but that aside. It's a complex issue.

I can afford it, but really don't like the cost bloat. A fool and their money are soon parted and I hate to feel like I'm giving money to a company that is actively trying to milk me. If I feel like it's a good buy, I'll pick it up, if its not, I won't. Many of the new kits are just too much for me to find them a good buy so I leave them until I may see them in a discount box or the like.

My collections are large and the higher prices make me pump the breaks and stick with what I have. No complaints but I won't pay 75$ for a rhino like transport for instance. Even I could get one here, or there it just doesn't feel like a good buy for me.

I get that company got to make money, they make plenty already and I've already given them many thousands, and my reward for that is phasing out my old marines. They showed how much they care, so why would I go out of my way to buy over expensive new kits ? I won't.

For their sake i hope the whales keep buying big for them, otherwise they will scare off the new players and more casual crowd with these prices.

#3 for me. After fifteen or so years playing and my only prevailing interest being the Guard (after Fantasy went bust) I pretty much have everything I want/need.

I'm not price immune, but I buy new items so rarely that it doesn't sting as much as it would if I was mid-way through building my collection. Could I afford it? Sure, but I'd probably not choose to.

I’m mostly set with my stuff. I’ve been collecting Daemons since they went plastic, and the new stuff I’ve needed, while not cheap, didn’t ruin things for me. I’ve made use of Start Collecting boxes (at least 3 for each god), and used online services before having a proper GW to go to (now I shop there cuz I play there). I don’t have anything I NEED anymore, unless a project bug tickles my fancy.

People who buy from ebay or other discount retailers are still affected by the price rise. Even used models will become more expensive when the other buy options rise in price.

The only people who wouldn't care as much about a price rise are people who have set aside a huge amount of money for the hobby and people who already have extremely large collections. But even for those people, every additional dollar you spend on one kit is a dollar that can't be spend on another and people who have large collection will certainly end up buying more models as more and more kits come out.

However, I do agree with some of GW latest price increases. The start collecting sets, for example, rose enough to match the inflation since they were released (which was about 6% and sure enough they went up by 6%). If you want them to stop doing that, you need to find another Ron Paul.

I don't play GW games anymore, so their prices are pretty much irrelevant to me.

That said, IF I spot a model second hand for a reasonable price, and it's one I'd wanted (from when I did still play) then I'll get it. Those days are getting further and further apart, though.

redboi wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

redboi wrote:


Emperor protect anyone trying to start out 40k these days

I think this is the key, and the problem. I can absorb the price increase, I already have multiple large collections [so buying a single box at a time is feasible, since I can buy it, paint it, and play it without also having to buy a starter force to go with it], and I'm not living hand-to-mouth.

However, a high schooler or middle schooler, the people who really need to be picking this up, can't afford to get into the hobby on internship/summer job money..

I made this point in the other thread as well. I almost never see teens or college students in the hobby shops around here anymore. It's almost exclusively people in their mid 20's-30's who either have good careers or have collected for decades. Younger kids wander in from time to time, but turn right around out the door as soon as they ask about prices. There is very little young blood coming in, in contrast to when I started in the early 2000's when the shops were populated by tons of high schoolers every weekend.


That is who the price hikes hurt the most and it's not good for the longevity of the game at all. I can make do just fine never buying an outrageously overpriced GW kit ever again, and occasionally sniping ebay when I see a good deal on something I like.

We have a few teenagers at our club, at least one of them has a part time job. Another one has a number of Forge World units, so I'm guessing thats a parent-funded collection.

 Insectum7 wrote:


We have a few teenagers at our club, at least one of them has a part time job. Another one has a number of Forge World units, so I'm guessing thats a parent-funded collection.

We're also comparing the prices we paid as kids vs what else we paid for as kids to the prices kids today pay compared to what we paid as kids.

3 months of an online MMPORG is basically the same cost as a box, and the box will last longer. But the MMORPG has more instant gratification. I don't know that - inflation-adjusted dollar for dollar - comparatively speaking kids are spending more of their parents money than they did before - but they have options that both fit better into the kids-like-instant-gratification and come-in-smaller-chunks paradigms.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
None of the above, I think. There should be a 5th option:
Is willing to save up for a little longer to get what I want.

Aside from this 5th option, I suppose I'm a combination of 2 and 3 - the increases aren't big enough that I couldn't save for them, and I've already got large armies that require a few units to bring to what I'd call "complete".

This. I have shopping cart content saved on some store offering heavy discounts and a can I stuff money in once a month. If that money exceeds the costs of my cart's contents, I order it.

Many of my expensive models have been presents from family and friends, I probably wouldn't have bought them myself.

Both my Death Guard and my Orks are numerous enough so I don't actually need to buy anything, but I want to.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Breton wrote:
3 months of an online MMPORG is basically the same cost as a box, and the box will last longer. But the MMORPG has more instant gratification. I don't know that - inflation-adjusted dollar for dollar - comparatively speaking kids are spending more of their parents money than they did before - but they have options that both fit better into the kids-like-instant-gratification and come-in-smaller-chunks paradigms.

Most kids aren't playing MMORPGs anymore though. A start collecting box can easily buy you a tripple-A title (including console tax) or multiple less expensive games on a sale. Or a pile of loot boxes/cosmetic assets in a FTP title.

The one box of models though? It's useless and you'll struggle to get a game in with your start collecting box, if it is a legal army at all. You also haven't bought glue and paint yet, making the buy-in even less attractive, compared to other hobbies.

Then again, I didn't start 40k in my teens either, because it was too expensive for me.

Most of the stuff I've bought over the past good few years has been solely from Ebay. Now and again I will splash out on a boxset, depends on the contents, but is a very rare event nowadays.

I'm not a fan of the Primaris so I think my 40k journey has stalled, which is sad.

As for the prices putting off newcomers; I've always questioned how many are drawn into the hobby? Any hobby will attract newcomers regardless but think about the massive sales increase GW has posted; can it be put down to newcomers? I don't think so, it's us lot the players and collectors who are GW's demographic and if they attract youngsters,fine.
More like;

1) People buying multiples of the boxsets when they are released, it's not uncommon to hear of people on Dakka buying 4 or 5 boxsets at a time.
2) The Conquest Magazine. Established players were buying up every single copy on day of release just to bolster their forces cheaply, good luck to any newcomer trying to get a copy!
3) Boxsets. Most are now near the £100 mark> how many kids have that kind of money?
4) The endless procession of codexes, supplements etc.. you need to stay in the game. It never ends.

Feel free to pay what you want but I'll stick at where I am!

3 and 4. Though I have decent enough job not to particularly care, i'm not really someone who is into spending money just for the sake of it when there's a reasonable alternative.

As such, I don't think i've bought a new model direct from GW in the last 7 or 8 years. I have bought paints, plastic glue and green stuff from them though.

Usually go for eBay or a third party seller. In fact, i've bought a 1.5k Tyranid army, piece by piece, from eBay for less than £50 in the last two years. If you have patience, I don't see why you wouldn't use eBay unless you're excessively blessed with cash.

#1 until the price truly takes the piss for me. SoB Seraphim and the new BSF add on are two things I want, but don’t feel I can bring myself to buy. I have thousands of points for several armies, so i’m fine with splashing out, but I have my limits.

I'm having a particularly expensive year so I've noticed the prices for the first time.

Next year I won't care again.

That's a hard one... I kind of fall into 3 categories but by the same token the price hike is definitely going to impact on my purchase decisions.

I'm by no means rolling in money, I have a pretty middle-of-the-road paying job that but I do have an income that allows me to indulge in things. I have a $50 a month subscription to books - that's a luxury. I often pay a carwash rather than clean my own car, another luxury. Warhammer is definitely a luxury and now that I'm a parent and have a mortgage it's become the a luxury I scrutinize the cost of significantly more than when I was single and lived with mates. I CAN absorb the cost of the price increase, but I don't really want to right now. So I won't.

I already have a backlog of stuff, including other miniature games, so until I feel that I'm in a better position to absorb the cost I'll just work on that.

I try to buy from my local GW, but some things I just fundamentally disagree with the price of. $40 for a clam pack Chaos lord on foot? No thanks, I'll pick it up on ebay. $55 for a pack of Raptors? Yeah sure, if I was going to spend around that much anyway I might as well support the store.

So overall I wouldn't say I'm immune to it, but the price increase won't kill the hobby for me.

On another note I actually quite like most of the current Start Collecting boxes and starter sets

 Jidmah wrote:


Most kids aren't playing MMORPGs anymore though. A start collecting box can easily buy you a tripple-A title (including console tax) or multiple less expensive games on a sale. Or a pile of loot boxes/cosmetic assets in a FTP title.

The one box of models though? It's useless and you'll struggle to get a game in with your start collecting box, if it is a legal army at all. You also haven't bought glue and paint yet, making the buy-in even less attractive, compared to other hobbies.

Then again, I didn't start 40k in my teens either, because it was too expensive for me.

I didn't really have a whole lot in the way of video games until university really. I never owned, and presumably will never own, a console. I started 40k in high school through a combination of gifts and asking for things from my parents, and this was fairly well received since I already built scale models played wargames and it was deemed a much better hobby to have than video gaming.

Back to other things kids could do though: a movie costs like $15 for about an hour and a half of entertainment that isn't even interactive. A video game is better, and while I generally make sure to get several hundred hours of play out of any video game [and rarely but them for more than $10], big-name video games don't tend to have particularly great standard play times for a single playthrough, on the order to 10-40 hours. I'm fairly convinced that the cost-to-entertainment rate of miniature gaming stacks up well against video games and especially movies, especially considering the fact that it's also an inherently social activity, encourages creative expression, and also provides something that's very much real that can be made and held and played with, so each hour is also an inherently better hour than an hour playing a FPS or watching a movie.


The high startup cost is a big choke though, if you're just looking at price tag and comparing it to houw much a kid has in his/her pockets. [That also said, I suspect that kids spend way more of their parent's money on far less useful and more ephemeral things, like eating out, on a routine basis.]

I'm semi price immune but GW hasn't really released anything outside of side games I'd have any interest in a while. I bought Kill team and Black Stone and I'm looking forward to SOB finally getting the support they deserve but as a marine player I have less then zero interest in anything to do with Primaris.

I'm living in a country where the average salary is a fraction of that in the UK, and while my salary is substantially above the average here, it's still substantially below what I could earn in the UK for the same work, which is all fine for the most part, because the cost of living here is largely reflective of the income. Unfortunately, the cost of Warhammer stuff does not adjust itself to the income levels here, so my hobby budget is already stretched pretty thin as it is. My collection is fairly modest and nowhere near complete. Ebay is not available here and the community is far too small to sustain any worthwhile second hand market.

So, no! I'm absolutely not immune.

There is a lot of models i would like but is way to much to buy for what i get, And with GW wanting the big models soo bad. I feel that is happening far to much.

I find i buy a lot of minis from other places just to paint, over even buying as much for play from GW.

 Ginjitzu wrote:
I'm living in a country where the average salary is a fraction of that in the UK, and while my salary is substantially above the average here, it's still substantially below what I could earn in the UK for the same work, which is all fine for the most part, because the cost of living here is largely reflective of the income. Unfortunately, the cost of Warhammer stuff does not adjust itself to the income levels here, so my hobby budget is already stretched pretty thin as it is. My collection is fairly modest and nowhere near complete. Ebay is not available here and the community is far too small to sustain any worthwhile second hand market.

So, no! I'm absolutely not immune.

Aww man, that sucks. Persevere if the hobby makes you happy. There's nothing wrong with accumulating an army gradually.

2 and 3.

I’ve got a large collection, so don’t really need anything. There is a lot of stuff I’d like though.

Financially I’m in an odd spot. I’m living within my means, but without a lot of slack. I do however have a healthy amount in savings, so I can splurge if I want. But the vast bulk of my hobby purchases are with gift cards I get and/or earn via rewards programs at work. (This restricts me to stuff I can get via Amazon for the most part)

So my budget is relatively fixed. I’m probably going to spend the same amount on GW products, I’ll just get less minis then before.

That said there are minis I will not buy on principle due to their price point. Infantry sized monopose characters should not be $30-35. The new Repulsor is not a $100 kit. I love the models, and if they show up in a bundle box (or gifts) I’ll gladly paint and use them. But at that price they have been priced out of my hobby. If the pricing trend continues and everything ends up at that level, I might start breaking down and buying them. I try to stretch my hobby budget as far as it can go, and the enjoyment to cost ratio of those kits is just too much. There are other things I covet more that cost less.

I usually host any games I want to play with friends and family. That means I was buying all the Battlefleet Gothic ships and 40k minis for everyone who might want to play.

When Battle of Black Reach (5th Ed) came out, I convinced one friend to buy a box of ork Boyz because I wouldn't. He was flabbergasted at the price and complained that I browbeat him into spending a ridiculous amount for one box. He still goes on about it to this day.

So, yeah, my friends are even more price sensitive than I am. I haven't played 40k since 4th edition and the fluff that kept me interested has lost a lot of its appeal. Now that we are living in the golden age of boardgames, I can buy dozens or hundreds of minis for the cost of 5 GW minis, pick up a rule set for $20 or less (unless they hoist the shipping up to $18. ), and host whatever game I want in whatever setting I want for a fraction of the cost of a Necromunda gang.




I do plan to buy some SOB though.

Someone complains about a box of Ork boyz? I spend more on one glass of wine at a fancy restaurant.

 Ishagu wrote:
Someone complains about a box of Ork boyz? I spend more on one glass of wine at a fancy restaurant.

We don't all come from the same strata.

I also wouldn't take this friend to a fancy restaurant unless I was paying.

Also, value is subjective, and he does not value game pieces or models. As someone who sees no value in wine, what you paid sounds like a rip off to me.

I wouldn't say immune at all. I was a bachelor when I got into the hobby in 2015. And, as a bachelor living on my own, I had discretionary income that I could throw at GW almost as quickly as new box sets came out (well, not as fast as they are coming out right now, but pretty quickly).

Now, I'm happily married, have a stepson, and my wife is an amazing stay at home mom. So, I'm definitely not price immune... especially to the pretty large hikes that GW has made recently to the bigger models.

As an example... I really didn't have any interest in owning the Archaon model until Warcry reveals starting coming out. Then I looked at the price... $165. While I still might own him one day in the future, that's insanely expensive. It's A LOT of models I could own at near the same price when comparing against Shadowspear or Dark Imperium.

I do have three Imperial Knights, but all of those were bought off eBay or at like 15% to 20% off the "Renegade" box set when it was out. So, HUGE discounts on those.

If I were to buy the Archaon model, he would be, by far, the single most expensive model I own.

SG

Price immune?

Nope.

Being disabled and out of work in an ever shrinking jobs market in the UK I'm on a fixed income. Been that way most of the last 20 years. Best I ever get is minimum wage temp work for a year or so.

Over the past 20 years GW in particular have been steadily and increasingly pricing myself and others like me out of the tabletop hobby. I can't get a game of anything tabletop wargaming, let alone GW, in my area, despite living between 2 GW stores, 11 miles away in one direction and 16 miles the other - which, of an evening, i.e. games night, are inaccessible by public transport to/from where I live! Getting to/from anywhere for a job is difficult/expensive enough on public transport - forget about travel for leisure!!

It's all well and good to sit there and say "I'm rich I don't care about price hikes", however the more prices go up, the more people like me walk away from the hobby and the more people don't even pick up the hobby...

£200 minimum for a decent sized 40k army to start properly with, similar cost for AoS, £20 a pop minimum for the codices/battletomes, with over 20 now for 40k, and you generally need to buy them all yourself to understand/know what you're up against - Sun Tzu, Art of War, know your opponent...

£600 minimum initial outlay for starting in 40k if you don't want to do a half assed/piecemeal job of it!! And I haven't even factored in paint...

Think on that before you say the hobby is cheap...

This hobby is definitely not cheap. You have to accept that and chose to be involved or not.

Going out for drinks regularly costs more than 40k
Golf costs more than 40k
Hobbies are generally expensive as they are non essential persuits.

There are many things which I would love to do but simply cannot afford. Heck, I'd love to own a Ferarri and take it out on track weekends! That's a hobby for some, but not for me unfortunately. Am I going to complain about the price of Ferraris? I am invested in cars after all.

GW hasn't increased the plastic prices of kits for a while - old kits last had an increase 3 years ago, however the new releases are getting more and more pricey. It's no longer a thoughtless purchase for me, as I said. So yes - it is getting worse.

The important thing is to know your limit and not to put financial strain on yourself, even if it means collecting at a slower pace. If the hobby gives you more negative feelings over positive ones it's time to stop or take a break.

 Ishagu wrote:
Golf costs more than 40k

No kidding! A nice set of clubs and weekly green fees... you could set yourself up with a couple of very nice 40K armies and a couple of very nice AoS armies... plus Necromunda and all gangs and books, Warcry with all Warbands and books, Underworlds with all warbands and all cards, Apocalypse with as many movement trays as you’d like plus all cards for all factions, and more! Photography is right up there as well.

SG

Rob Lee wrote:
Price immune?

Nope.

Being disabled and out of work in an ever shrinking jobs market in the UK I'm on a fixed income. Been that way most of the last 20 years. Best I ever get is minimum wage temp work for a year or so.

Over the past 20 years GW in particular have been steadily and increasingly pricing myself and others like me out of the tabletop hobby. I can't get a game of anything tabletop wargaming, let alone GW, in my area, despite living between 2 GW stores, 11 miles away in one direction and 16 miles the other - which, of an evening, i.e. games night, are inaccessible by public transport to/from where I live! Getting to/from anywhere for a job is difficult/expensive enough on public transport - forget about travel for leisure!!

It's all well and good to sit there and say "I'm rich I don't care about price hikes", however the more prices go up, the more people like me walk away from the hobby and the more people don't even pick up the hobby...

£200 minimum for a decent sized 40k army to start properly with, similar cost for AoS, £20 a pop minimum for the codices/battletomes, with over 20 now for 40k, and you generally need to buy them all yourself to understand/know what you're up against - Sun Tzu, Art of War, know your opponent...

£600 minimum initial outlay for starting in 40k if you don't want to do a half assed/piecemeal job of it!! And I haven't even factored in paint...

Think on that before you say the hobby is cheap...

I don't own my enemies codecies. And I don't think I know anybody who really does. I can know my enemy just fine for free by reading Battlescribe.

More importantly, it's about $300-$500 to build a 40k army. That isn't actually a lot of money. It's a plane ticket 1-way to HI, a pair of skis, a semester of eating out as a college student, a week of skiing [though, to be fair, you might want to consider buying a pass at that point], a gaming console, or like 3 fancy dinners.

You may value travel to big name destinations more than miniatures. I know quite a few people who do. But it really comes down to what do you want? If you can afford any hobby at all, you can probably afford wargaming. It's pretty cheap on the scale of adult hobbies.

 ServiceGames wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
Golf costs more than 40k

No kidding! A nice set of clubs and weekly green fees... you could set yourself up with a couple of very nice 40K armies and a couple of very nice AoS armies... plus Necromunda and all gangs and books, Warcry with all Warbands and books, Underworlds with all warbands and all cards, Apocalypse with as many movement trays as you’d like plus all cards for all factions, and more! Photography is right up there as well.

SG

I ski, and my whole collection costs less than a season of ski trips. 40k isn't that expensive as a hobby, and as far as things go, it's something I'd happily buy for hypothetical future kids, since it gets them out of the house to be social, makes real friends, uses their minds and hands, and gets them off of video games.

$300 USD is currently, according to xe.com, £239. So right about the figure I quoted for a half decent starter army.

Many people here in the UK, those of us on fixed and low incomes, regardless of employment situation or outlook (which in fact for many are currently bleak), those of us with families to pay for with the cost of living rising massively each year, if not each quarter, simply cannot justify, even if we could afford it, that sort of layout on hobbies, especially in one go so as not to make a half assed piecemeal attempt at putting an army together, let alone a 1 way ticket to HI (I assume you mean Hawaii?), a pair of skis, a semester eating out, a week of skiing, a games console, or 3 fancy dinners.

To say that's actually not a lot of money shows how little financial perspective people like yourself seem to have.

The cost of living in the US is vastly different to that here in the UK. Massively so. So you simply cannot say what you perceive to be "not a lot of money" is in fact the same for someone else.

And sitting there telling people, especially those in my situation, where I've been enjoying a hobby for 25+ years and am increasingly being pushed out of it, that it's only this, it's only that, it's not a lot of money, is at least condescending, if not insulting.

 Ishagu wrote:
This hobby is definitely not cheap. You have to accept that and chose to be involved or not.

Going out for drinks regularly costs more than 40k
Golf costs more than 40k
Hobbies are generally expensive as they are non essential persuits.

Video gaming costs less than 40k
P&P costs less than 40k
LARP costs less than 40k
MtG costs less than 40k (if you argue that you need a new competitive paper deck every 3 month, compare that o needing competitive army two or three times a year).

How much golfing costs also heavily depends on where you are. When I was living in the US, golfing was definitely cheaper than 40k, in Germany where prices for that hobby are artificially inflated, it's more.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
This hobby is definitely not cheap. You have to accept that and chose to be involved or not.

Going out for drinks regularly costs more than 40k
Golf costs more than 40k
Hobbies are generally expensive as they are non essential persuits.

Video gaming costs less than 40k
P&P costs less than 40k
LARP costs less than 40k
MtG costs less than 40k (if you argue that you need a new competitive paper deck every 3 month, compare that o needing competitive army two or three times a year).

How much golfing costs also heavily depends on where you are. When I was living in the US, golfing was definitely cheaper than 40k, in Germany where prices for that hobby are artificially inflated, it's more.

I'm a pc gamer and it costs me more than 40k.

I never said 40 is the cheapest hobby. I said hobbies are generally expensive and there are many that cost far more.

 Jidmah wrote:

MtG costs less than 40k (if you argue that you need a new competitive paper deck every 3 month, compare that o needing competitive army two or three times a year).

Sounds like the Power Nine have really come down in price....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Rob Lee wrote:


To say that's actually not a lot of money shows how little financial perspective people like yourself seem to have.

The cost of living in the US is vastly different to that here in the UK. Massively so. So you simply cannot say what you perceive to be "not a lot of money" is in fact the same for someone else.

And sitting there telling people, especially those in my situation, where I've been enjoying a hobby for 25+ years and am increasingly being pushed out of it, that it's only this, it's only that, it's not a lot of money, is at least condescending, if not insulting.

Is telling people it IS a lot of money showing how little financial perspective people like yourself seem to have? Is sitting there telling people, especially people in their situation, where they've been buying new minis and increasingly investing in it they're spending a lot of money at least condescending, if not judgy? Their opinion, such as it is their perspective. Yours, such as it is, is yours. Yours is no more right and accurate than theirs.

The BBC wrote: For the same rent or less, you could also get a three-bedroom property in Leeds (LS8) with money to spare. Or, if Leeds isn't for you, around 50% of all British postcode areas have an average price of £767 or lower for a three-bed.

£767 pounds is about $960. Where I live, you're looking at $1500+ (£1200+) for a 3 Bedroom. If you can even find one.

Breton wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

MtG costs less than 40k (if you argue that you need a new competitive paper deck every 3 month, compare that o needing competitive army two or three times a year).

Sounds like the Power Nine have really come down in price....

I have been playing MtG regularly for over twenty years and I have seen power nine being played exactly once. There is zero reason to buy cards that are banned in almost every game you will ever play. That's pretty much the same as buying a full 40k titan legion off FW.

MtG casual formats like drafts, commander, MTGA are all vastly cheaper than 40k casual formats. Even playing standard tournaments will be cheaper than chasing 40k tournament wins with constantly changing armies.

 Jidmah wrote:


I have been playing MtG regularly for over twenty years and I have seen power nine being played exactly once. There is zero reason to buy cards that are banned in almost every game you will ever play. That's pretty much the same as buying a full 40k titan legion off FW.

MtG casual formats like drafts, commander, MTGA are all vastly cheaper than 40k casual formats. Even playing standard tournaments will be cheaper than chasing 40k tournament wins with constantly changing armies.

I was playing when the Power Nine were just cards. They were far from banned in my gaming group, (we played to screw with the rules, not necessarily to win - based on the 60/30 Berserk Tramping Black Lotus deck, the 5 color every card players love to hate Annoyance Deck, among others) or the Vintage/Type I tournaments like the NYSE tournament giving away about $20,000 as their top four prizes. Regardless, it appears some people can justify M:tG and it can be more expensive.

Some people can also justify buying multiple titans from forgeworld.

A black lotus is about the same price as a warlord titan.

When the top-end spending is the same, and the low-end spending less, MtG is still cheaper than 40k.

 Jidmah wrote:
Some people can also justify buying multiple titans from forgeworld.

A black lotus is about the same price as a warlord titan.

When the top-end spending is the same, and the low-end spending less, MtG is still cheaper than 40k.

Low End Spending on 40K is nothing. You don't have to buy 32 new Guardsmen when you make a new army list. You have to buy a new box or more when one expansion ages out of current.

40k "Nothing" = existing army worth about $300, no matter how competitive

Magic "Nothing" = free starter deck from your FLGS or an event/download MTGA for free

 Jidmah wrote:
40k "Nothing" = existing army worth about $300, no matter how competitive

Magic "Nothing" = free starter deck from your FLGS or an event/download MTGA for free

The Free Starter Deck is competitive deck building now... Has anyone seen those goal posts?

I've just finished making a modern i would say semi competitive MTG deck (UW control) and with the money i spent on that i could have a 40k army easily. Could i make a cheaper deck, can i pay less using Arena?? probably yes to both of them but its got some of the same issue as warhammer, why would i buy a budget pauper deck if people only play modern and legacy?? Now MTG Arena is free, but is only good if you like standard, which to me is a money trap with constantly rotating cards, you could spend £200-£300 every rotation for a decent deck plus its all online which i just dont like as much as playing face to face.

Both these hobbies CAN be expensive but for the most part all i need to do is not go out for a meal, or out drinking for a couple of weekends and then i can spend that money on the equivalent in warhammer. For me I'm Price immune to price rises because i can plan on what things to chop and change if i wanted to buy something, be it warhammer, MTG or just a nice slap up meal with the misses.

Breton wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
40k "Nothing" = existing army worth about $300, no matter how competitive

Magic "Nothing" = free starter deck from your FLGS or an event/download MTGA for free

The Free Starter Deck is competitive deck building now... Has anyone seen those goal posts?

The ones you are moving?
From MtG being a hobby that is more expensive for the vast majority to one that *can* be more expensive if you ignore the rules and really want to?
Or the one where you claim that you can actually play power nine but still have cards rotating out?

The cost for playing your first game of magic is free compared to a solid hundred spent on getting your first small army.
The cost for playing casual magic is vastly lower than any kind of WH40k. The equivalent of a single box of miniatures is enough to keep a dozen casual decks up to date with current editions, starting a casual deck can be done for 20-40€.
The cost for playing competitive magic is lower or equal to playing competitive WH40k. Even buying a playset of the top mythic planeswalkers during hype season is just a bit more expensive than building and painting a unit of lootas and slightly cheaper than a chaos knight. Buying just the shooting units form Nick Sutherland's top-placing ork list clock in at 650€, assuming you already have all the characters, boyz and gretchin needed. Even the most ridiculous pile of expensive standard-legal cards is less than that, your average GT winning deck is half that.

So, no matter how you play, MtG is cheaper than playing WH40k in the same way.
Oh, and $20,000 is quite low for a MtG tournament. Mythic League Players get $75,000 for just showing up, with a pize pool of $1,000,000. Also, good luck finding legacy or vintage players in most areas.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

aldo1234 wrote:
I've just finished making a modern i would say semi competitive MTG deck (UW control) and with the money i spent on that i could have a 40k army easily. Could i make a cheaper deck, can i pay less using Arena?? probably yes to both of them but its got some of the same issue as warhammer, why would i buy a budget pauper deck if people only play modern and legacy?? Now MTG Arena is free, but is only good if you like standard, which to me is a money trap with constantly rotating cards, you could spend £200-£300 every rotation for a decent deck plus its all online which i just dont like as much as playing face to face.

There also is the option of just drafting or playing commander. Both are readily available everywhere.

If you follow some of the WH40k top players, some have gone through Gulliman Marines, Chaos, Ynnari, Knights and GSC just in the last two years. That's plenty of standard decks you could buy for that kind of money. even if you need to buy new lands each time (you usually don't).

There also is the option of just drafting or playing commander. Both are readily available everywhere.

I think thats a bit of a disingenuous, you cant complain about warhammer prices then bring up a format where you are required to pay roughly £10 in packs before you even start and can only use them in that event, and commander is a completely different ballpark sure you can build a £10 commander deck but for every one of them theres also a full foiled atraxa decks with all masterpieces, and again what if you dont like those formats what do i then do?? (i actually really like commander but my two main decks probably cost about the same as my warhammer collections)

All 3 of these:

- Not that rich but GWs increases arent significant enough to you
I commission paint on the side and my hobby budget is the money I make from painting. The spouse doesnt know about these spendings so that fact that a Baneblade went from 90 to 140 doesnt matter. Can you believe a razorback is 45? If I need 3 I wont pay that.... but I would try and hunt the weapons and then strip down the 7-8 or so rhinos I have.

- Have very large collections already so only ever need 1-2 units to complete armies / update armies
I have multiple armies unpainted and don't need anything but duplicate units for the factions I play

- Dont buy from GW (ebay, 3rd party, swaps etc)
I'm a big fan of eBay and buying OOP metal models. I also take trades of armies as pay for painting commissions


MTG isnt cheaper than Warhammer for me personally. IT IS FOR SOME PEOPLE THAT ENJOY CASUAL PLAY. I played standard and flavor of the month. Maybe $200/mo on MTG but I only played 3-4 days a month and half of that draft. With Warhammer I'm painting nearly every day and playing only 3-4 days a week but the $100-200 I spend a month. I'm making money back painting or it's more hours of enjoyment I can have later in that year. D&D is fairly expensive time-wise for me as a DM

So, I've spent $1,147 (CAD), inc. H.S.T., on 3,878pts and have played a lot of games with them over the 21 months I've been working on them.

I paid $2.64, inc. H.S.T., for Fallout: New Vegas on Steam and I've probably spent comparable time playing that as playing 40K. Not building and painting, just playing.

An annual pass for the yoga studio I go to costs me $1,200, excluding H.S.T... I spend over $3,000 a year on cigarettes.

'Expense' is inextricably liked with value and value is necessarily subjective. Mother Dear's boyfriend thinks nothing of dropping £2k on a Gretsch, but won't shell out £400 for a new sofa.

So...

aldo1234 wrote:
I think thats a bit of a disingenuous, you cant complain about warhammer prices then bring up a format where you are required to pay roughly £10 in packs before you even start and can only use them in that event,

If you play draft three times a month for two months, that's still less than a single unit of boyz, paint not included. And that's before you consider that you can just sell the cards you drafted to play more drafts.
If you want to pay little to nothing for MtG and still play competitively, this is by far the best method.

and commander is a completely different ballpark sure you can build a £10 commander deck but for every one of them theres also a full foiled atraxa decks with all masterpieces,

Both foil and master pieces have zero game value and are just for burning money. Claiming either are necessary for any kind of game is wrong.
I might as well claim that WH40k is at least £480 to play, because you need to buy a Realm of Battle board to play on first.

and again what if you dont like those formats what do i then do?? (i actually really like commander but my two main decks probably cost about the same as my warhammer collections)

The same you do when all your friends want to play Kill Team instead of 40k. Either play the format available or don't play.

Some people claiming that 40k is very expensive and nothing else are pretty wrong.

You can play perfectly good games of kill team after buying one infantry box and a rulebook. It's as expensive as you're ultimately prepared to make it.

There's a variety of games that cater to different tastes and budgets.

The SO and I would probably primarily be #2 but #3 and #4 are also relevant.

Not that rich but Gws increases arent significant enough to you

We both have decent jobs, and we rent a room in our house for added income because we don't have any other use for the space. We buy full-price to support our FLGS and for the added customer service benefits.

Have very large collections already so only ever need 1-2 units to complete armies / update armies

I started off the hobby with the ideal to collect 1 full-size squad of every unit from my army - Asuryani - and having accomplished that some time ago, it only takes a squad here or there to finish most of my lists. The SO only grabs what they want to finish a list and crash-builds it, since they work best on deadlines.

Dont buy from GW (ebay, 3rd party, swaps etc)

This is much less of a thing, but I will spend hours digging through bins at swap-meets and finding bits to kit-bash or complete models that are not quite but really close to being complete. And old metal models are fun just for the sheer joy of having the entire development line of a model from metal to current.

So yeah, the price increases are annoying but ultimately not that big a deal for us.

Too rich too care
I suppose I should fall into this category based on my circumstances (single, 20s, well-paid job in the city) but I just can't shake the feeling of getting stiffed with certain products.

Have very large collections already so only ever need 1-2 units to complete armies / update armies
Dont buy from GW (ebay, 3rd party, swaps etc)
Far more these two: I think most of us reach a point when we are idly perusing ebay for deals to fill in the odd gaps, and not really actively pursuing huge armies any more. That being said I have bought a fair number of big ticket items from GW on impulse/through my favoured third party

If you're going to try to argue that you can play MTG with a free starter deck (that loses 95% of the time or worse against anyone not using the free starter deck) then you need to compare it to playing 40k with paper tokens and a pirated pdf of the rules.

 Peregrine wrote:
If you're going to try to argue that you can play MTG with a free starter deck (that loses 95% of the time or worse against anyone not using the free starter deck) then you need to compare it to playing 40k with paper tokens and a pirated pdf of the rules.

Internet Guy wrote:But my friend gave me 40 commons and the FLGS gave me 20 lands.
I'm playing Magic for FRREEEEE.
I have a Craw Wurm in my deck and once I draw it you're dead!

It's a really weird argument because... like... yeah it is true, you can play Magic for "Free".
You can be an artist with a free pencil and paper scraps you find on the ground but is that the typical scenario?
At this point you can almost get an old marine army for free via old mono-pose marines that people are almost giving away.
Combine with conversions and scratch-builds and you could have a "solid" army... well an army...
Let us not forget the tournament-winning dollar store bug army.

 Peregrine wrote:
If you're going to try to argue that you can play MTG with a free starter deck (that loses 95% of the time or worse against anyone not using the free starter deck) then you need to compare it to playing 40k with paper tokens and a pirated pdf of the rules.

Ok. Playing 40k with paper tokens and pirated pdfs and unpainted minis is still $125 for Dark Imperium to get an army that will lose 95% of its games.

I guess MtG is still cheaper.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Cryptek of Awesome wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
If you're going to try to argue that you can play MTG with a free starter deck (that loses 95% of the time or worse against anyone not using the free starter deck) then you need to compare it to playing 40k with paper tokens and a pirated pdf of the rules.

Internet Guy wrote:But my friend gave me 40 commons and the FLGS gave me 20 lands.
I'm playing Magic for FRREEEEE.
I have a Craw Wurm in my deck and once I draw it you're dead!

It's a really weird argument because... like... yeah it is true, you can play Magic for "Free".
You can be an artist with a free pencil and paper scraps you find on the ground but is that the typical scenario?
At this point you can almost get an old marine army for free via old mono-pose marines that people are almost giving away.
Combine with conversions and scratch-builds and you could have a "solid" army... well an army...
Let us not forget the tournament-winning dollar store bug army.

I guess any logical fallacy and flat lies are ok to defend this urban myth of MtG being more expensive than WH40k, right?

Those armies that people are "almost giving away" are still $200+ on ebay. Scratch-builds still cost money and time, plus they require skill. And if consider proxies to be an ok way to play, MtG proxies can be printed anywhere.

On MTGA I have two decks which match what current tournament winning players are running, and I have not spend a single cent on them. Playing competitive magic is literally free online, not just "free".
And even if you start spending money on paper MtG to regularly play games, it will be less than the money required to regularly play WH40k when you play both games on the same level.

The only time 40k appears to be cheaper when you compare competitive magic gaming to casual "I haven't updated my army in years" 40k.

You're not addressing the fact that 40k can be extremely cheap and you can play kill team for a tiny investment.

I'm bored of the magic discussion. Magic is a card game and not a direct comparison to 40k - there's no painting of miniatures involved. You may as well be comparing 40k to gaming.

No one is saying that 40k doesn't have a cost attached to it. I'm saying that if you're finding the cost to be upsetting or offensive you should re-think your investment in the hobby. There is no illusion at any given point being projected that you can collect a dream army from multiple factions without an investment.

In the grand scheme of things I find the hobby to have a notable cost but not one that is unreasonable compared to other popular hobbies. Some are cheaper, others cost more. All hobbies vary - gaming can be very cheap, alternatively it could be incredibly expensive if you're a HTC VR gamer on a top computer. Same applies to 40k. No one is forcing anyone to play at 2k points, you can literally get started in the hobby by investing in a single plastic kit and enjoy games of kill team as you slowly build up a force.

 Jidmah wrote:
Ok. Playing 40k with paper tokens and pirated pdfs and unpainted minis is still $125 for Dark Imperium to get an army that will lose 95% of its games.

I guess MtG is still cheaper.

No, playing with paper tokens instead of models. Cost = free, and about as relevant to real 40k as the free MTG demo deck is to real MTG.

 Peregrine wrote:
If you're going to try to argue that you can play MTG with a free starter deck (that loses 95% of the time or worse against anyone not using the free starter deck) then you need to compare it to playing 40k with paper tokens and a pirated pdf of the rules.

A much more accurate analogy would be comparing it to one of the 40k starter sets. Both provide the bare minimum required to play but don't really offer enough to actually compete meaningfully with more established players. For that you'll need more cards/models. Your 40k analogy extended to MtG would mean playing MtG with printed cards rather than official ones, which is almost free. So MtG is still cheaper but they're both in the same ballpark.

So... paper tokens and pirated .pdfs but you're paying for Dark Imperium?

Except to deliberately skew the numbers, why?

 Excommunicatus wrote:
So... paper tokens and pirated .pdfs but you're paying for Dark Imperium?

Except to deliberately skew the numbers, why?

I'm specifically saying the opposite of that. I'm saying the nearest 40k analog for a free starter deck in Magic is something like Dark Imperium. If you are going to claim you can play 40k for cheap using paper tokens then the same applies to Magic using photocopied cards.

Yes, no other company comes close for what I personally like about GW's product so I'd buy regardless, price just effects volume.

I do mitigate where possible e.g. Buying new stuff at launch to get the biggest discount, splitting large boxes and reselling bits I don't want, buying where the discount is best, reselling old models I no longer want.

Only thing be cut out this year is GW non black Library events, it's pointless as all the news goes up online and I live local so can visit when it's quieter if I want to go to bugmans or the exhibition.

You've got to be insane to think MTG is anywhere near as expensive as 40k. Having played both extensively, I could build a fun and very strong casual deck for less than the cost of a single infantry box. I still have decks from more than a decade ago that still hold up and are fun to play with. Nor do I need several hundred dollar decks to play competitive when drafts exist. If you want to play competitive 40k you better be prepared to take out a second mortgage these days with the meta shifting every other month.

That's not even mentioning money for paints, brushes, tools, books and all the other random expenses required for the hobby. It's not even a comparison.

redboi wrote:
You've got to be insane to think MTG is anywhere near as expensive as 40k. Having played both extensively, I could build a fun and very strong casual deck for less than the cost of a single infantry box. I still have decks from more than a decade ago that still hold up and are fun to play with. Nor do I need several hundred dollar decks to play competitive when drafts exist. If you want to play competitive 40k you better be prepared to take out a second mortgage these days with the meta shifting every other month.

That's not even mentioning money for paints, brushes, tools, books and all the other random expenses required for the hobby. It's not even a comparison.

?? Having played both I can say you are really looking at MTG with some rose colored shades. Sure, you can play competitive draft pretty cheap, that's about it however. If you play the old formats for competitive MTG, those decks and singles will cost you a pretty penny if you want to have a competitive chance. As well following the standard builds, getting new sets as they drop and following the competitive money cards for the best decks will cost you a good amount in that as well. Draft is about the only format done regularly that you don't pay a ton for.

There are many expensive and recurring expenses for Magic, you don't usually pay it all at the start. Warhammer has a large outlay over a smaller time period however once that is done, it's generally cheaper to maintain one army or the countless magic decks and trading stock to keep up with everything in MTG.

For instance, I've had my guard army pretty much done for years now. I had to add nothing to it to keep up with the current meta trends or have my army usable. Anything I wanted to add to it has been simply for desire and not for need and even then I think I've spent like 200$ over the past two years on it. I assure you if I was keeping up with MTG standard that cost would be easily three or four times as much over the same time period if not more.

Draft is simply the cheapest and best example for cheap magic. As for casual decks, sure casual magic decks are cheap but outside private play groups it can be hard to find people to play casual as everyone is much more geared towards standard ideals and all the sweat that brings with it.

And draft isn't even that cheap. You're spending ~$15 per draft at most stores (and if you aren't prize support is nonexistent), so if you're playing in your local FNM every week that's $60/month. If you want to draft more to be competitive that number goes up. And if you want to win at drafting you have to ignore the value of the cards, passing that expensive foil mythic rare in favor of a powerful common your deck needs. So you can forget about extracting full value from those packs you're drafting with, unless you enjoy losing.

Contrast that with the price of playing 40k where $60-100 per month buys you a kit or two, enough that most adults aren't going to have enough free time to finish building and painting more than that within a month. And unlike drafting there's no ongoing cost once you finish building the army. The draft player spends their $720+ per year on drafting and has nothing at the end of it all, only more $15 drafts to buy. The 40k player spends their $720 on a decent starter army and has an army they can keep playing with forever with no expenses outside of rulebook updates.


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Slipspace wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
If you're going to try to argue that you can play MTG with a free starter deck (that loses 95% of the time or worse against anyone not using the free starter deck) then you need to compare it to playing 40k with paper tokens and a pirated pdf of the rules.

A much more accurate analogy would be comparing it to one of the 40k starter sets. Both provide the bare minimum required to play but don't really offer enough to actually compete meaningfully with more established players. For that you'll need more cards/models. Your 40k analogy extended to MtG would mean playing MtG with printed cards rather than official ones, which is almost free. So MtG is still cheaper but they're both in the same ballpark.

No, my analogy was correct. Playing with a free demo deck in MTG is a one-time teaching tool that does not work in normal games. Playing 40k with pirated rules and paper cutouts for models is a one-time teaching tool that does not work in normal games. You can't compare a free teaching demo in MTG to the cost of playing the real game in 40k, which is what you're trying to do.

I think magic is much easier to start with. You can get casual decks for almost free and then just be content with some random drafts/sealed events and play kitchen magic. Almost 0 start up cost and time investment required unlike for warhammer. You have to buy paints, tools and models and then spend 100ish hours just to have a small army done before you even get much enjoyment out of the game.

After that first phase the 2 games get more similar though. If you want to play in any of the more competitive magic formats you have to start spending money and the difference in how much you pay for your game is probably close to 0. Having competitive magic decks and 40k armies is both costly. With 40k you pay a bit more in time and magic in cash but total investment is close.

But totalt cost for the hobby isnt that important since when you are hooked and deep in to it you will have spent thousands of dollars after a few years no matter what hobby it is. But were magic wins in this comparison is how easy and cheap it is to start and then add to it. All you need is some money and perhaps someone who can give you some duplicates of cheap/worthless but useful cards. And 0 time investment and need to glue fingers together.

Having to pay huge amounts(for what is seen as some plastic toys) for plastic and then have a part time job just to Assemble/paint the stuff so you can play is daunting for newer players. If it at least were cheaper it might seem more worthwhile to start.

Each time I get back to playing magic I just draft a few times. Buy a deck for a couple of hundred, play it for some months and then sell it. Almost 0 extra time needed to get back in to it since the core rules havent changed. Doing the same with 40k is about the same cost but the time needed is on a different level. Takes me longer to paint new units than I have to wait for my new cards to arrive in the mail and learning new rules, armies and meta foe 40k takes more than 10x as long as for magic. "No ever quits magic. There is only a difference in how long their break lasts"

AngryAngel80 wrote:

redboi wrote:
You've got to be insane to think MTG is anywhere near as expensive as 40k. Having played both extensively, I could build a fun and very strong casual deck for less than the cost of a single infantry box. I still have decks from more than a decade ago that still hold up and are fun to play with. Nor do I need several hundred dollar decks to play competitive when drafts exist. If you want to play competitive 40k you better be prepared to take out a second mortgage these days with the meta shifting every other month.

That's not even mentioning money for paints, brushes, tools, books and all the other random expenses required for the hobby. It's not even a comparison.

?? Having played both I can say you are really looking at MTG with some rose colored shades. Sure, you can play competitive draft pretty cheap, that's about it however. If you play the old formats for competitive MTG, those decks and singles will cost you a pretty penny if you want to have a competitive chance. As well following the standard builds, getting new sets as they drop and following the competitive money cards for the best decks will cost you a good amount in that as well. Draft is about the only format done regularly that you don't pay a ton for.

There are many expensive and recurring expenses for Magic, you don't usually pay it all at the start. Warhammer has a large outlay over a smaller time period however once that is done, it's generally cheaper to maintain one army or the countless magic decks and trading stock to keep up with everything in MTG.

For instance, I've had my guard army pretty much done for years now. I had to add nothing to it to keep up with the current meta trends or have my army usable. Anything I wanted to add to it has been simply for desire and not for need and even then I think I've spent like 200$ over the past two years on it. I assure you if I was keeping up with MTG standard that cost would be easily three or four times as much over the same time period if not more.

Draft is simply the cheapest and best example for cheap magic. As for casual decks, sure casual magic decks are cheap but outside private play groups it can be hard to find people to play casual as everyone is much more geared towards standard ideals and all the sweat that brings with it.

You are comparing top level MTG with casual 40k. You're being disingenuous and you know it. The vast majority of magic is played super casual. I don't need a new $200 wombo combo to play magic. Fact remains that I can build several decks for like $100, play them for a couple months, then sell them if I want and basically break even or often times MAKE MONEY as cards tend to gain value over time.

For competitive, again I can drop $10 for a draft whenever I feel the itch and be on an equal footing to everyone else there and even win some prizes from it. You absolutely can not do that with 40k.

You can play MTG for as little or as much money as you want, even close to free. If you want to play 40k you are dropping several hundred dollars minimum just to get started before even getting books and supplies

Anyone who has played both knows how silly this argument is.

I like eBay and rescuing minis on the cheap.

Slipspace wrote:

 Excommunicatus wrote:
So... paper tokens and pirated .pdfs but you're paying for Dark Imperium?

Except to deliberately skew the numbers, why?

I'm specifically saying the opposite of that. I'm saying the nearest 40k analog for a free starter deck in Magic is something like Dark Imperium. If you are going to claim you can play 40k for cheap using paper tokens then the same applies to Magic using photocopied cards.

I can see how it isn't entirely clear, but I was responding to jidmah.

I agree that if you're going to bring pirated rules and counts as tokens into it then the logic extends to photocopied/pirated cards

We used to play Magic during lunch breaks at my old job. It was super cheap to get a deck of cards, less costly than an upscale burrito, and we had games for months. Then some jerk face brought in his tournament deck and shut it all down. Rather than spend money to catch up with the meta or bring our A game or whatever toxic page 5 nonsense, we just stopped playing with him and continued to enjoy near-free MtG.

When I tried to get friends into casual 40k, none would buy the models or books and I had to supply everything. It was not cheap. Even supplying EM4 minis for generic tabletop rulesets costs more than casual Magic. A lot more. The comparison only exists for people with so little chill they think the only way to play is to compete with near-strangers at a store or other venue.

I'm sorta price immune but only on stuff that I want. I sometimes wonder if GW couldn't triple or quadruple their sales if they cut prices in half. For example, I never made the mercenary Empire army or Vampire Counts army I wanted to build simply because playing an infantry army in WHFB cost an arm, a leg and maybe another appendage to get into.

What has the price of some card game got to do with the OP's post?

 Rolsheen wrote:
What has the price of some card game got to do with the OP's post?

Because certain people like to compare apples to oranges, or wargames to wine, Ferraris and golf, or wargames to CCGs.

It's hilarious to see people claiming that MTG is cheap, right after WOTC announced their latest scheme to milk the cash cow of cardboard crack addicts with $25 "premium" packs. At least with GW you know what you're buying, you aren't spending piles of money and hoping RNG gives you something useful.

The apples-to-oranges hobby comparison is daft, and I'm not sure why people do it. There's hobbies out there that are virtually free and hobbies that are eye-wateringly expensive. Whether you want to argue GW is cheap or expensive, there's another hobby you can compare it against to 'prove' your point, except it's a pointless comparison. All that matters is whether the cost of this particular hobby is acceptable, to you.

Personally, I'm fine with it. I have a decent disposable income, and I'm quite frugal in most other aspects of my life. Little plastic soldiers are my primary indulgence, where the frugal part of my brain is quite happy to switch off and buy all the things. That's not to say that I totally ignore the price - I tend to buy through my FLGS at a good discount and have a place that I pre-order things from that does an even bigger discount on pre-orders. As others have said, the main concern here is new blood. The higher the prices rise, surely it must get harder to get new people into the hobby. Those of us who've been collecting for years are well and truly immersed in it, and we'll grumble but continue to pay. Somebody new? I fear they'll take one look at the price for a box and walk away.

The thing that bothers me about GW price increases is that they appear completely arbitrary, and there is never any discounts or sales. And nothing ever. . .ever. . .gets cheaper.

Very few businesses operate that way. Additionally their overseas pricing also seems completely arbitrary and nonsensical.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Rolsheen wrote:
What has the price of some card game got to do with the OP's post?

Because certain people like to compare apples to oranges, or wargames to wine, Ferraris and golf, or wargames to CCGs.

We should only be comparing GW prices to Mantic's, Medge's, Gates of Antares' and the like? Fine. I just put in an order for some Wargames Atlantic IG minis at GW's 2003 price per mini.

 Excommunicatus wrote:
So... paper tokens and pirated .pdfs but you're paying for Dark Imperium?

Except to deliberately skew the numbers, why?

Because the official starter set for WH40k is Dark Imperium (assuming that you could actually play pick-up games with the content... you cannot), while the official starter sets for MtG are either free decks or theme/event decks in the 10-20€ range. The one making a dishonest comparison was peregrine, who claimed that playing WH40k with pirated rules and proxies was the same as playing magic with real cards.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ishagu wrote:
You're not addressing the fact that 40k can be extremely cheap and you can play kill team for a tiny investment.

I'm bored of the magic discussion. Magic is a card game and not a direct comparison to 40k - there's no painting of miniatures involved. You may as well be comparing 40k to gaming.

You were the person comparing WH40k to golf. So you surrender that your original point was idiotic?

 argonak wrote:
The thing that bothers me about GW price increases is that they appear completely arbitrary, and there is never any discounts or sales. And nothing ever. . .ever. . .gets cheaper.

Very few businesses operate that way. Additionally their overseas pricing also seems completely arbitrary and nonsensical.

I think very few, if any, companies in the gaming world are capable of operating the way GW can at the moment. They have a target and captive audience. You don't need sales if your products are selling like crazy. There's no point. Only GW knows the full numbers, but I suspect they're good. What other game company can afford to actually have retail stores? (and who else would risk staffing them with a single person). GW plays by their own rules...and it's work for them. No point in changing, unfortunately.

AngryAngel80 wrote:
If you play the old formats for competitive MTG, those decks and singles will cost you a pretty penny if you want to have a competitive chance.

The old formats are dying out and you only need all those expensive cards you want to play those old formats competitively. There is no more need to own a black lotus than to own a Warlord Titan.

As well following the standard builds, getting new sets as they drop and following the competitive money cards for the best decks will cost you a good amount in that as well.

As described further up in the thread, you must compare competitive magic to competitive WH40k. In that case, WH40k isn't cheaper either.

Draft is about the only format done regularly that you don't pay a ton for.

Also commander and any casual format. Not even considering pauper.

There are many expensive and recurring expenses for Magic, you don't usually pay it all at the start. Warhammer has a large outlay over a smaller time period however once that is done, it's generally cheaper to maintain one army or the countless magic decks and trading stock to keep up with everything in MTG.

Once again comparing casual WH40k gaming to competitive MtG. For casual MtG investing 60€ per year easily keeps all you commander and 60 card casual decks up to date.

For instance, I've had my guard army pretty much done for years now. I had to add nothing to it to keep up with the current meta trends or have my army usable. Anything I wanted to add to it has been simply for desire and not for need and even then I think I've spent like 200$ over the past two years on it. I assure you if I was keeping up with MTG standard that cost would be easily three or four times as much over the same time period if not more.

So did you keep up with the current meta for WH40k? Did you buy a castellan, smash captains, dawn eagle captains? If not, how is that different from not buying a new standard deck but just keeping the one you have?
Are you sure you aren't you the one seeing this through rose-tinted glasses because your army happens to be one of the most competitive ones and thus needs little to no adjustment?
For me, updating my 6k points of orks to a top tournament standard would cost hundreds of euros, same for my 3k points of death guard. And those have cost me no less than the hundreds of thousands of magic cards I have - despite playing magic twice as long as WH40k.

Draft is simply the cheapest and best example for cheap magic. As for casual decks, sure casual magic decks are cheap but outside private play groups it can be hard to find people to play casual as everyone is much more geared towards standard ideals and all the sweat that brings with it.

Yeah, that's the same for WH40k. Outside of play groups you are bound to find competitive people sooner or later, meaning you need to upgrade the army you built in 7th/with Index rules/before the last CA to compete.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
We used to play Magic during lunch breaks at my old job. It was super cheap to get a deck of cards, less costly than an upscale burrito, and we had games for months. Then some jerk face brought in his tournament deck and shut it all down. Rather than spend money to catch up with the meta or bring our A game or whatever toxic page 5 nonsense, we just stopped playing with him and continued to enjoy near-free MtG.

When I tried to get friends into casual 40k, none would buy the models or books and I had to supply everything. It was not cheap. Even supplying EM4 minis for generic tabletop rulesets costs more than casual Magic. A lot more. The comparison only exists for people with so little chill they think the only way to play is to compete with near-strangers at a store or other venue.

If you need more than a single book to run your army, Just the books will even get close to a top magic deck in standard.
For the price of some starters you could build a top deck here D: And building 2 good decks to play with friends is easy for most magic players.

Also people still bring up page 5 :O it has not even been a thing in forever, and it was all about not being toxic.

 argonak wrote:
The thing that bothers me about GW price increases is that they appear completely arbitrary, and there is never any discounts or sales. And nothing ever. . .ever. . .gets cheaper.

Very few businesses operate that way. Additionally their overseas pricing also seems completely arbitrary and nonsensical.

I would like to point out, that GW does have Discounts in there boxes at times.
And why it may not seem it, GW not doing sales often and in the way a lot of busness do it is actually quite good for the consumer.
Probably would be worth them doing some at times, But the never ending revolving sales can and often is quite bad if your not paying attention.

 Peregrine wrote:
And draft isn't even that cheap. You're spending ~$15 per draft at most stores (and if you aren't prize support is nonexistent), so if you're playing in your local FNM every week that's $60/month. If you want to draft more to be competitive that number goes up. And if you want to win at drafting you have to ignore the value of the cards, passing that expensive foil mythic rare in favor of a powerful common your deck needs. So you can forget about extracting full value from those packs you're drafting with, unless you enjoy losing.

Except the vast majority of expensive rare and mything cards are also bombs in draft. Out of all $10+ foils of the current set only two are trash for drafts, and one might be picked anyways.
If you do well enough, you also get packs which you just can hold until your next draft, making it a lot cheaper.
Oh, and many drafts do rare re-picks to handle this exact problem.

Contrast that with the price of playing 40k where $60-100 per month buys you a kit or two, enough that most adults aren't going to have enough free time to finish building and painting more than that within a month. And unlike drafting there's no ongoing cost once you finish building the army. The draft player spends their $720+ per year on drafting and has nothing at the end of it all, only more $15 drafts to buy. The 40k player spends their $720 on a decent starter army and has an army they can keep playing with forever with no expenses outside of rulebook updates.

So much fact-twisting...
- $100 is almost twice as much as the draft costs, and "a kit or two" often enough means "not even a full unit". Building and painting a box that's below $60 is a work for three evening for me, and most people here appear to have much more time than that.
- The "Nothing" you are left with after all those drafts are probably 140+ rares and mythic rares and huge pile of playable commons and commons which easily build into a very decent casual deck and with some investment even into a competitive standard deck.
- Comparing a competitive draft player to a casual 40k player who doesn't give a damn whether his army is competitive - again

A much more accurate analogy would be comparing it to one of the 40k starter sets. Both provide the bare minimum required to play but don't really offer enough to actually compete meaningfully with more established players. For that you'll need more cards/models. Your 40k analogy extended to MtG would mean playing MtG with printed cards rather than official ones, which is almost free. So MtG is still cheaper but they're both in the same ballpark.

My gaming group had a player who got three Mirrodin pre-constructed decks for free at a convention. He played those three decks without investing a single cent once a week for almost five years before leaving for a job. The win rate of those decks is no worse than the win rate of a pile of DI primaris.

No, my analogy was correct. Playing with a free demo deck in MTG is a one-time teaching tool that does not work in normal games. Playing 40k with pirated rules and paper cutouts for models is a one-time teaching tool that does not work in normal games. You can't compare a free teaching demo in MTG to the cost of playing the real game in 40k, which is what you're trying to do.

So using official tools is the same as breaking the law through copyright infringement? That's a stretch, even for you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Rolsheen wrote:
What has the price of some card game got to do with the OP's post?

Someone claimed that we should be lucky because WH40k is one of the cheapest hobbies there is.
I made list of hobbies which are cheaper.
Bunch of 40k veterans got their panties in a twist because MtG was on that list and feel like they have to defend the urban myth of MtG being more expensive than WH40k with twisted facts and fallacies to justify why their hobby is "better".

 Jidmah wrote:
Because the official starter set for WH40k is Dark Imperium (assuming that you could actually play pick-up games with the content... you cannot), while the official starter sets for MtG are either free decks or theme/event decks in the 10-20€ range. The one making a dishonest comparison was peregrine, who claimed that playing WH40k with pirated rules and proxies was the same as playing magic with real cards.

Who cares what the "official" starter is? The point is that the free MTG demo decks are not real MTG. They are not legal decks, and they aren't going to win against real decks because WOTC is not dumb enough to give away viable decks for free. They are nothing more than a visual aid for walking someone through the rules as they learn how to play, comparable to showing how 40k works with a pirated pdf and some paper tokens to represent models. The 40k starter set is a viable option to play a real game (remember, Kill Team exists) and start a larger collection, comparable to MTG's for-purchase starter decks and intro bundles.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:
Except the vast majority of expensive rare and mything cards are also bombs in draft.

And? If you're in the third pack and you're taking an off-color bomb rare that you can't play over a strong in-color removal spell you're trying to lose and shouldn't be drafting. Obviously there are cases where you take the valuable card because it is your best option for winning games, but the point is that you can't consider the packs you're drafting with to have any inherent value because the optimal play often conflicts with extracting maximum value from the cards.

- $100 is almost twice as much as the draft costs, and "a kit or two" often enough means "not even a full unit".

It's only twice as much if you assume only one draft per week, not two. At two drafts per week $100 is less than the cost of drafting.

And yes, sometimes you have to buy multiple kits to build a large unit. But that's not always the case. An IG squad is a single infantry kit, 1/3 of a HWS box, and maybe some conversion bits from the pile. A Rhino is a single kit. A Tau crisis suit squad is a single kit. Etc. There are plenty of units where a single kit is all you need.

Building and painting a box that's below $60 is a work for three evening for me, and most people here appear to have much more time than that.

Maybe if you're painting to a basic tabletop standard and not doing anything too challenging. In my experience a single box is more like 5-10 evenings at minimum, spread out over a month or more because I have a lot of other things to do. Maybe if you're minimally employed and have no other hobbies or family commitments or anything like that you can build multiple kits per month, but I can't imagine that's the standard.

- The "Nothing" you are left with after all those drafts are probably 140+ rares and mythic rares and huge pile of playable commons and commons which easily build into a very decent casual deck and with some investment even into a competitive standard deck.

Assuming you rare drafted instead of trying to win, and assuming you finish this investment before the format rotates and it's all worthless. If you're trying to build a constructed deck buying packs is only the second-worst option available because buying packs and then drafting with them is even worse. If you have any interest in constructed then you buy specific cards online and avoid the RNG at all costs.

- Comparing a competitive draft player to a casual 40k player who doesn't give a damn whether his army is competitive - again

It's entirely fair. I'm not talking about high-level competitive players who spend obscene piles of money on drafting many times per week, this is about the typical FNM player who shows up to their local store regularly and wants to have a decent chance of winning. The comparable 40k player is perfectly capable of doing that without buying a new army multiple times per year to chase the metagame like the high-level competitive players.

My gaming group had a player who got three Mirrodin pre-constructed decks for free at a convention. He played those three decks without investing a single cent once a week for almost five years before leaving for a job. The win rate of those decks is no worse than the win rate of a pile of DI primaris.

And my gaming group had a player who got some free space marines from a guy who was quitting and played with those marines for years. And she had a win rate comparable to a MTG player trying to use some preconstructed decks without investing any additional money.

So using official tools is the same as breaking the law through copyright infringement? That's a stretch, even for you.

Shrug. Bury your head in the sand and pretend that more than 5% of 40k players never pirate rulebooks if you want, but in the real world virtually everyone has a drive full of pirated copies and the first advice they're going to give a new player is "download the rulebook and see if it's interesting".

PS: lots of people also drive over the speed limit, smoke pot, etc, even though those things are illegal.

Someone claimed that we should be lucky because WH40k is one of the cheapest hobbies there is.

And it's a true claim. All of my non-40k hobbies are more expensive than 40k. My airplane cost $45,000 to buy and at least $1,500/month in ongoing costs. My camera gear is at least $2-3,000, plus the cost of travel to the locations I'm photographing. I just got back from a ~$2,000 hiking trip and I'll probably do it again next year if the schedules line up. Hell, I've even got thousands of dollars in MTG cards sitting in a box because they have too much sentimental value to ever recover that investment. The only thing that gets 40k even close to those numbers is chasing down OOP kits on ebay.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Rolsheen wrote:
What has the price of some card game got to do with the OP's post?

Someone claimed that we should be lucky because WH40k is one of the cheapest hobbies there is.
I made list of hobbies which are cheaper.
Bunch of 40k veterans got their panties in a twist because MtG was on that list and feel like they have to defend the urban myth of MtG being more expensive than WH40k with twisted facts and fallacies to justify why their hobby is "better".

So it was you who derailed this thread, please stop talking about some card game. I'm sure there is a more appropriate thread you can go to where you'll be welcomed with open arms.

OK.

 Jidmah wrote:
OK.

Honestly give it up sadly most people lurking on these forums are so used to getting reemed by GW that they now enjoy it’s a strange mix of battered wife/Stockholm syndrome mixed with the sunk cost fallacy and a touch of elitism because they happy to drop £1000’s of pounds on mass produced plastic toy soldiers.

GW said it best years ago “ our customers are special and unusual people”

SeanDrake wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
OK.

Honestly give it up sadly most people lurking on these forums are so used to getting reemed by GW that they now enjoy it’s a strange mix of battered wife/Stockholm syndrome mixed with the sunk cost fallacy and a touch of elitism because they happy to drop £1000’s of pounds on mass produced plastic toy soldiers.

GW said it best years ago “ our customers are special and unusual people”

Alternatively, 40k just isn't that expensive if you're an adult with a decent job. I can buy new 40k stuff as fast as I can paint it without having any effect on the budget, and GW cutting their prices in half would have zero impact on my buying habits.

Don't bring that attitude in here. We are a forum filled with all ages and all means, there's no place for "just be richer" here.

Thank you

 motyak wrote:
Don't bring that attitude in here. We are a forum filled with all ages and all means, there's no place for "just be richer" here.

Thank you

Guy above him compared GW customers to beaten wives...
But the somewhat obvious comment that if you have a decent & stable salary you can afford to pay for miniatures is somehow an attack against poor people?

The beaten wives comment should have attracted mod attention for sure, on a forum where the rules are applied logically and consistently. This is Dakka, however, and rules are applied by throwing a dart at a board.

Regarding a decent and stable salary (whatever that means), the mod's explicit words were to not bring "that attitude" meaning "just be richer" in here. At no point did they say you couldn't make the connection between being a good little wage-slave and buying plastic crack.

 motyak wrote:
Don't bring that attitude in here. We are a forum filled with all ages and all means, there's no place for "just be richer" here.

Thank you

Good thing I never said "just be richer". Someone made a ridiculous claim about how everyone who is ok with GW prices is unreasonable and irrational, I pointed out a legitimate reason for not caring about GW prices. I have plenty of sympathy for people who are stuck in terrible low-paying jobs, but that doesn't change the fact that lots of us are making enough that 40k is a cheap hobby and GW's prices don't matter.

 Peregrine wrote:

SeanDrake wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
OK.

Honestly give it up sadly most people lurking on these forums are so used to getting reemed by GW that they now enjoy it’s a strange mix of battered wife/Stockholm syndrome mixed with the sunk cost fallacy and a touch of elitism because they happy to drop £1000’s of pounds on mass produced plastic toy soldiers.

GW said it best years ago “ our customers are special and unusual people”

Alternatively, 40k just isn't that expensive if you're an adult with a decent job. I can buy new 40k stuff as fast as I can paint it without having any effect on the budget, and GW cutting their prices in half would have zero impact on my buying habits.

Ding,ding,ding we have a winner proving my point only took 20min, defends prices while making implications about my age and swinging his epeen about his salary. As a nice touch demonstrates questionable judgements about his buying habits “special and unusual as GW would say.

As for your crass comments I guess you could interpret them as saying if your a man child with a job and no commitments such as a family or a home to pay for then you can spend a large amount on mass produced plastic toy soldiers, however as an Englishman and a gentleman I would never try to comment on the personnel situation of another poster.

I however will say that I have socks older than most GW customers and have a nice job with a family and my own home, as such that gives me a certain perspective on value. I will say that my gaming PC which is the basis of my other main hobby probably cost more than the average annual salary in the US, just recently I have added a rtx 2080ti gfx cards for £1000, an Alienware 34” ulrawidescreen monitor £1200 and a new Samsung SSD for £108. So I think we can agree I could pay GW excessive overinflated prices but I have the willpower not to oh and that is how you swing your epeen


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Peregrine wrote:

 motyak wrote:
Don't bring that attitude in here. We are a forum filled with all ages and all means, there's no place for "just be richer" here.

Thank you

Good thing I never said "just be richer". Someone made a ridiculous claim about how everyone who is ok with GW prices is unreasonable and irrational, I pointed out a legitimate reason for not caring about GW prices. I have plenty of sympathy for people who are stuck in terrible low-paying jobs, but that doesn't change the fact that lots of us are making enough that 40k is a cheap hobby and GW's prices don't matter.

Wow even for perri you absolutely feel the condescension dripping off that comment.

I don't mind the price because the quality is fantastic. Plus, they maintain that quality with a ridiculous release rate.

Currently I have all the models I want for 3 or 4 armies and have no plans to buy any more this year or a anything that isn't a discount in the future. The new space Marine take being $100.00 usd and the cost per bottle of contrast paints is outrageous.
I've been completely uninterested in 40K for almost all of this year and am thinking I'm done with the warhammers.
So I feel more or less immune to the price hikes due to lack of interest.

As an add to my previous answer. I was lookign at my ork collection. I have probably a few thousand in it at least. But I have been collecting it for over a decade. I have been playign games with it a 2-4 hours a week probably 30 weeks out of the year (probably an underestimate but going with it). Even assuming its $3k in orks (possible). at the minimum I am getting 60 hours per year, over 10 years that would be 600 hours. so $5 per hour though as I enjoy painting and modeling/megnetizing and converting models at least double tha tin time spent on those activities. so ~$2.50 per hour in entertainment.

That is an extreme example though as one could just buy 2k worth of points or so and keep playing with that nearly indefinatley.

If you hate painting, do you subtract that time?

 G00fySmiley wrote:
As an add to my previous answer. I was lookign at my ork collection. I have probably a few thousand in it at least. But I have been collecting it for over a decade. I have been playign games with it a 2-4 hours a week probably 30 weeks out of the year (probably an underestimate but going with it). Even assuming its $3k in orks (possible). at the minimum I am getting 60 hours per year, over 10 years that would be 600 hours. so $5 per hour though as I enjoy painting and modeling/megnetizing and converting models at least double tha tin time spent on those activities. so ~$2.50 per hour in entertainment.

That is an extreme example though as one could just buy 2k worth of points or so and keep playing with that nearly indefinatley.

It is the exact same view about the cost of this hobby as mine. In the last four years I have played more than 200 times and spent countless hours on assembling/converting models and building terrain, so my cost per hour of entertainment is less than 1$ despite investing heavily enough in Sector Mechanicus kits to populate dense Necromunda table. No other hobby of mine gets even near that order of magnitude of $ per hour metrics.

Edit: I just calculated that my caffeine intake in the same period have costed me twice the money I have in all my models, including terrain, and I mostly drink at home.

 Jidmah wrote:
If you hate painting, do you subtract that time?

I think you just add in $ getting them commission painted? though in orks I just batch jobbed 120 ork boys. prime/base coat in nato green vallejo primer, black for boots pants etc. gunmetal grey for sluggas, choppas and picking out a few details (not necessary) bone white on teeth, picked out a few gun and choppa details in copper and then dip washed them. prime to tabletop+ quality all in about 3 hours and an easy $240 in the bank

 Peregrine wrote:

SeanDrake wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
OK.

Honestly give it up sadly most people lurking on these forums are so used to getting reemed by GW that they now enjoy it’s a strange mix of battered wife/Stockholm syndrome mixed with the sunk cost fallacy and a touch of elitism because they happy to drop £1000’s of pounds on mass produced plastic toy soldiers.

GW said it best years ago “ our customers are special and unusual people”

Alternatively, 40k just isn't that expensive if you're an adult with a decent job. I can buy new 40k stuff as fast as I can paint it without having any effect on the budget, and GW cutting their prices in half would have zero impact on my buying habits.

So what's your cutoff point for individual models?
For ex; a GSC Locus is $30 atm, but other character models/singles are similar. Just because you're well funded doesn't mean that you're not being ripped off.

ccs wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

SeanDrake wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
OK.

Honestly give it up sadly most people lurking on these forums are so used to getting reemed by GW that they now enjoy it’s a strange mix of battered wife/Stockholm syndrome mixed with the sunk cost fallacy and a touch of elitism because they happy to drop £1000’s of pounds on mass produced plastic toy soldiers.

GW said it best years ago “ our customers are special and unusual people”

Alternatively, 40k just isn't that expensive if you're an adult with a decent job. I can buy new 40k stuff as fast as I can paint it without having any effect on the budget, and GW cutting their prices in half would have zero impact on my buying habits.

So what's your cutoff point for individual models?
For ex; a GSC Locus is $30 atm, but other character models/singles are similar. Just because you're well funded doesn't mean that you're not being ripped off.

Let me answer this that way - just yesterday I was presented with a following "price dillema": I have found a (refurbished) rare Wave Serpent Type II upgrade kit on ebay. Asking price was way above the cost of the whole Wave Serpent kit. I really like the way this kit modifies the look of stock Wave Serpent (I personally thinkg that both stock Falcon and Wave Serpent tail end look "cut off" but I really dig Warp Hunter, "Type II" variants and Eldar Superheavies. Looking at the asking price in the void it can be perceived as outrageous. I could kitbash this look onto Wave Serpent recasting and adapting Warp Hunter parts or scratchbuild it with plasticard and green stuff spending few hours of my time "at a fraction of the cost". But this is where "being adult with a decent job" part comes in - it actually costs me MORE to scratchbuild this than purchase it from ebay at "outrageous" prices, because this "outrageous price" is worth just two hours of my work and I'm positive, that I could not do the conversion from scratch in under two hours. Add to that the nature of my job - I can work as much in a month as I want to earn to the limits of my physical ability and duration of the month minus sleep and other necessary life tasks - and economy of time becomes more important than economy of cash. Would I prefer that the ebay asking price was lower? Of course, who wouldn't. Is it acceptable anyway? Yes it is.

Do you want Locus model? Do you have a cheaper alternative way of obtaining it? Can you be content without one in your collection? Does purchasing it deprives you of some other, more important need in your life? Those are the only questions that you have to answer when considering if Locus price is "outrageous" or "acceptable" if you have renewable disposable income.

I have most of the things in my collection I need to play at least at a semi-casual/competitive level. Small increases don't effect me then.

The things I do want to get are centerpiece items, which are stupidly expensive. At which point EBAY has been helpful, or otherwise I have to avoid the urge to buy due to price.

ccs wrote:
So what's your cutoff point for individual models?
For ex; a GSC Locus is $30 atm, but other character models/singles are similar. Just because you're well funded doesn't mean that you're not being ripped off.

Shrug? $30, don't care, I'll buy it if I want the model. I'm sure there's a price where I'd have to decline but I don't see GW coming anywhere near that point in the foreseeable future.

 Peregrine wrote:

ccs wrote:
So what's your cutoff point for individual models?
For ex; a GSC Locus is $30 atm, but other character models/singles are similar. Just because you're well funded doesn't mean that you're not being ripped off.

Shrug? $30, don't care, I'll buy it if I want the model. I'm sure there's a price where I'd have to decline but I don't see GW coming anywhere near that point in the foreseeable future.

So what is that point you'd decline at?

I doubt there is a point most who say are price immune to GW wouldn't pay for a model, 50, 100, 200. To not get it isn't an option, I mean it's only money and only if you're frugal do you pace your purchases based on what you consider to be reasonable. As well reasonable is so wildly subjective as to not mean anything as a factor.

Couple that with some also wouldn't freely admit they can't afford a toy they want, that would be a sign of financial weakness.

Me ? I'd say if the characters started pushing 40 or higher, I'm straight out it just isn't worth it anymore as other things can call my money aside from one plastic figure of standard infantry size. Just part of the standard GW cost bloat pushing ever upward and onward.

My GW total is over $500,000 probably closer to 750 now, so yeah price immune. I look at it as I don't have any bigger expenses, I get paid very well so I'll spend the money on a hobby I enjoy instead of letting it sit in the bank

 Rolsheen wrote:
My GW total is over $500,000 probably closer to 750 now

How? Yeah, do what you love and all, but how did you manage to find that much GW stuff to buy and that much space to store/use it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ccs wrote:
So what is that point you'd decline at?

As I said already, there is no specific point because wherever that point is it's way beyond any foreseeable price in the real world. I've spent $100 on (granted, OOP and hard to find) character models already and I don't see any chance of GW's in-production kits getting anywhere near that price.

I've spent a lot on GW in the past, my collection is worth something like twice what my car was new. When GW raises prices I buy less... its that simple. At the original prices for Knights I'd have bought 3-4 of the new Chaos Knights but at $150, no. I try not to buy GW piece meal, if I have an idea of a project I see if I can do it for a price I'd be happy with, if I can I'll buy if I can't I won't. GW's price rises, I just end up more and more saying I won't. I'm conscious of inflation and exchange rates and try to look at their prices in adjusted terms. However I'm pretty firm about where I draw the line.

Maybe I know too much for my own good, but as an engineer I used to design injection molds and the assembly lines for consumer products, and I have a firm sense of how disconnected from what their manufacturing costs should be and the price their models have become. I also have a background in business and was involved in the quotation and negotiation of pricing so I also know what pricing practices are most common. That combined with reading their financials its pretty plain that while GW does care about hobbyists, its very much lost in their pricing because of how they've insulated themselves. The prices and margins they sell to retailers are the kind of markup most manufacturers usually only have with direct to customer sales. GW doesn't need to immediately worry about the impact on consumers because they're already profitable when they've sold at that price to retailers... and they don't really care about that retail price beyond that as much. They have their own direct sales and retail, but when you look at it their retail outlets are only a bit self sufficient and it ends up being largely balanced with the greater margin on their direct sales. The complete picture is that they have a margin in mind and any time they would otherwise fall short, they simply raise prices. There really isn't much regard for consumers.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Rolsheen wrote:
My GW total is over $500,000 probably closer to 750 now

How? Yeah, do what you love and all, but how did you manage to find that much GW stuff to buy and that much space to store/use it?

I too am fascinated by this figure. It seems well beyond what I could conceive purchasing. Did you buy an entire FLGS?

If he's an Australian it could just be a couple "Start Collecting" boxes.

 Elbows wrote:
If he's an Australian it could just be a couple "Start Collecting" boxes.

That is the sad truth, those costs are pretty lofty there.

AngryAngel80 wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
If he's an Australian it could just be a couple "Start Collecting" boxes.

That is the sad truth, those costs are pretty lofty there.

Sadly feels that way sometimes, And i collect anime figures :O its just crazy when GW has some of there miniatures selling for close or over the high quality anime figures on the market.
Unpainted, unbuilt and not even as big. still 50$ more.

Actually I'm originally from the UK been collecting, painting and selling armies for 30yrs. I was on the Forgeworld advance mailing list so used to buy 1 of every new release before general sale. (13 titans so far) I've had 3 armies of 20,000+pts, maybe two dozen armies over 10,000pts. I bought 100 Bloodcrushers once for to re-enact a battle from the Warhammer rulebook.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Rolsheen wrote:
My GW total is over $500,000 probably closer to 750 now

How? Yeah, do what you love and all, but how did you manage to find that much GW stuff to buy and that much space to store/use it?

.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Rolsheen wrote:
My GW total is over $500,000 probably closer to 750 now

How? Yeah, do what you love and all, but how did you manage to find that much GW stuff to buy and that much space to store/use it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ccs wrote:
So what is that point you'd decline at?

As I said already, there is no specific point because wherever that point is it's way beyond any foreseeable price in the real world. I've spent $100 on (granted, OOP and hard to find) character models already and I don't see any chance of GW's in-production kits getting anywhere near that price.

Maybe its those strange kangaroo bucks.

Though that is still like 350k

brutal but whatever makes you happy. am i right?