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What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/03 23:45:22


Post by: vaklor4


This is just a fun little brainstorm i;ve wanted to post here, what do you think are some elements missing from a particular faction that would help them out a lot? We're not talking tournaments, just something to give them something they vastly, sorely lack.

My example is Snipers/Artillery, and CSM. Or really, Chaos in general. Even though we're the second biggest soupable faction, we completely lack snipers and artillery that ignores LoS, which are both pretty great things to have. I'm not counting Renegades and Heretics, in fact I dare say I wouldn't count anything from Forgeworld, if only because I feel like all of the "imperium but given the chaos keyword" stuff is both lazy, and horribly overpriced both in cash and points most of the time.

Another obvious one is Tau in the psychic phase. No, not Tau Psykers, but rather a defense. Something like an anti-psyker unit, or even a stratagem like Templar and World Eaters have.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/03 23:52:29


Post by: flandarz


Like Chaos, Orkz also lack LOS ignoring weapons and snipers. Best we got is a Warlord trait that only works within 24". Hardly ideal, since all our good shooting HQs would really rather be as far away from enemy units as possible.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/03 23:55:18


Post by: Inquisitor Lord Katherine


 vaklor4 wrote:
This is just a fun little brainstorm i;ve wanted to post here, what do you think are some elements missing from a particular faction that would help them out a lot? We're not talking tournaments, just something to give them something they vastly, sorely lack.

My example is Snipers/Artillery, and CSM. Or really, Chaos in general. Even though we're the second biggest soupable faction, we completely lack snipers and artillery that ignores LoS, which are both pretty great things to have. I'm not counting Renegades and Heretics, in fact I dare say I wouldn't count anything from Forgeworld, if only because I feel like all of the "imperium but given the chaos keyword" stuff is both lazy, and horribly overpriced both in cash and points most of the time.

Another obvious one is Tau in the psychic phase. No, not Tau Psykers, but rather a defense. Something like an anti-psyker unit, or even a stratagem like Templar and World Eaters have.


Well, lots of things:

S9, Heavy Infantry, Long Ranged Weapons, Psykers [though we have good psychic defense], Snipers, Artillery, Flyers, Antiaircraft Guns, etc.

We also have very limited access to wound support and lack the network of stacking buffs most armies can have [largely though lack of those buffs], and have only 1 [unique] fast character.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/03 23:55:35


Post by: kastelen


Admech doesn't have anything with the flyer battlefield role. That's the main thing though, imo.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/03 23:56:48


Post by: ArcaneHorror


Just like there is a dedicated DP character for Slaanesh and one for Nurgle, there needs to be one for Khorne and Tzeentch as well (on the regular GW site, not FW). For Tzeentch, I'd love to see a model for Phokulozortis.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 00:02:49


Post by: Ozomoto


You do get deredeos which have a sick los not needed 48" 3d3 S6 -1 ap gun that excels at killing los blocked chaff holding objectives. It also helps there also a highly competitive choice at the moment as well.

Also at least 3/4 of the psychic powers snipe if not something like 5/6.
Lacking things generally makes for good gameplay. Imperium psychic disciplines being waaay worse then eldar and somewhat worse then chaos adds a lot of identity and interesting angles to the 3 mega factions for example.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 00:05:26


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


For necrons -
Indirect fire option (because running into an army that has one really sucks, especially if that army is tyranids. Even army should have some sort of indirect fire option. Hell, the DDA should have that option, because it is basically an artillery piece)

Canoptek HQ

Pariahs

An actual battle tank

For Orks

A generic mek option

A warboss in Mega Armor option

Indirect fire (Lobbas used to be a thing. Now you only get them on battlewagons)

An actual battle tank (no, the battlewagon doesn't count. It has a 4+ save and is more of a transport option. The Looted Wagon was, or rather could be built, as a battle tank, but for some asinine reason GW decided to restrict it to open play)


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 01:59:40


Post by: ccs


Hmm, lets see....

My Squats would like rules.

My IG?
1: I want my land speeders back. The damned GSC stole them from us back at the dawn of 2e.
Their stats were listed in the Army booklet that came in the starter under the GSC section as Imperial Guard Land speeders. But they weren't in the Guard list....
2: I want bike mounted IG troops. I wonder if the GSC would mind if I took theirs?
3: I want an IG dropship/landing craft.

My Space Wolves?
All I want is for Leman Russ to quit farting about in the warp & get his ass back on the front lines.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 02:20:24


Post by: BrianDavion


Primaris Bikes.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 02:49:27


Post by: Kanluwen


Skitarii Primus, Skitarii Alphas, and Skitarii 'Weapon Teams'.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 03:12:03


Post by: Elbows


Honestly, I can really only say: rules to give every unit a purpose in the game.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 03:53:13


Post by: tneva82


Internal balance. No point cramming more units when maybe third of existing ones are even playable


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 04:52:06


Post by: casvalremdeikun


A legitimate fast moving close combat unit for Primaris.

Also, all of the models GW previewed a month ago that they are sitting on. My current list can't be played right now.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 04:54:20


Post by: Nitro Zeus


Chaos have access to RnH with up to 9 Basilisks, or whatever really.

That might change in future as of new index rules, but the option has been there with very little cost to unlock for a spearhead for a very long time.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 05:28:13


Post by: AngryAngel80


Horses, gimmie them horses GW.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 05:29:17


Post by: AnomanderRake


Any rules at all for my Corsairs. Any kind of counter to charge-from-deep-strike strategies for Custodians. 8e rules for all my AdMech robots.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
A legitimate fast moving close combat unit for Primaris...


Extension: Any useful close combat unit of any kind for any Space Marines.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 05:36:31


Post by: Not Online!!!


 vaklor4 wrote:
This is just a fun little brainstorm i;ve wanted to post here, what do you think are some elements missing from a particular faction that would help them out a lot? We're not talking tournaments, just something to give them something they vastly, sorely lack.

My example is Snipers/Artillery, and CSM. Or really, Chaos in general. Even though we're the second biggest soupable faction, we completely lack snipers and artillery that ignores LoS, which are both pretty great things to have. I'm not counting Renegades and Heretics, in fact I dare say I wouldn't count anything from Forgeworld, if only because I feel like all of the "imperium but given the chaos keyword" stuff is both lazy, and horribly overpriced both in cash and points most of the time.

Another obvious one is Tau in the psychic phase. No, not Tau Psykers, but rather a defense. Something like an anti-psyker unit, or even a stratagem like Templar and World Eaters have.


That midpart is untrue.
The r&h snipers are one of the decent units to field actually. And easily convertable.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 05:41:35


Post by: Dandelion


AngryAngel80 wrote:
Horses, gimmie them horses GW.


Yass. So much this.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 06:01:52


Post by: ccs


tneva82 wrote:
Internal balance. No point cramming more units when maybe third of existing ones are even playable


I think you'll get world peace first.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 06:04:14


Post by: tneva82


ccs wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Internal balance. No point cramming more units when maybe third of existing ones are even playable


I think you'll get world peace first.


That might actually be closer than you might think. Just not in the way we would like...But yeah not expecting internal balance any time soon to even level where I can take 70% units without shooting my foot big time. But would be nice to get closer before new unneeded units just for sake of selling new models.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 06:14:41


Post by: AdmiralHalsey


Almost anything Inquisition.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 06:32:28


Post by: Sgt. Cortez


Pestigors. They're even in the backgroundtexts of the 8th Edition rulebook.

Also I wouldn't say Chaos lacks any artillery, between Rapiers, Plagueburst Crawlers, defilers and Renegades there are a few.
DG could need a Flyer, but I don't really care for those in any faction so can live without them.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 07:19:25


Post by: wuestenfux


Pariahs for Necrons, Exodites for Aeldari, and HQs with
jetbikes and skyboards for Druhkari.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 07:24:23


Post by: Not Online!!!


Dark eldar, well how about some hq?
Renegades and heretics: veterans, plague zombies, militia Training, demagogue, demagogue devotions, propper pricing, etc .
DKoK would like their other list back.
Tau would probably do with a minor psyker ( Baby smite and deny)


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 08:18:11


Post by: Pyroalchi


Regarding IG: I think they are lacking very few things, but I also would really love to officially get back rough riders (or bikers... or camels... whatever) and maybe even rider commanders like the death korps.

It also would be nice to get any possibility to add a Invulnerability save to our Lords of War. It can be expensive, it can be an additional support unit like the Trojan or a Psyker buff, but it would be nice.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 08:57:55


Post by: Jidmah


Warboss on Warbike
Big Mek with 5" movement speed

On a more serious note, orks are lacking very little.
We don't have LoS ignoring weapons (except the comically bad lobba), but we do have planes that can bomb units wherever they are, and they can usually get around whatever is blocking LoS.
We also don't have snipers, and people have been asking for grot snipers since before I bought my first ork. They would probably have the same profile as ratlings be just as competitive, but people would buy them anyways. IMO GW is leaving money lying around.
Personally I'd prefer and huge ork bully that can force characters to fight him in close combat (grappling gun?), but that's just me.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 09:41:28


Post by: Karol


Some sort of resiliance to survive the turns with 20+ or 40+ pts cost models, that are as resilient as models that cost 12/17pts.

Some sort of update to stratagems, so they are actually worth using. Cost drop on them would be nice too, so everything doesn't cost 2CP

An option to reach melee, or the reduction of cost of melee weapons. Or the ability to not take the melee weapons.

Some sort of heavier squad weapon, that can help against vehicles and multi wound models

Some sort of abilty to use psychic power more then once per turn. The army is suppose to be psychic heavy, but all it has is gate, sancturary and astral aim, coupled with baby smites. Baby smite should probably go in fact, specially if squad heavy weapons aren't updated.

Some sort of synergy between different units in the army, that go beyond trying to cluser withing 6" of the warlord and draigo.

Some sort of rules change that make the units do different stuff, and not be so internaly skewed. Failing that the removal of Ro3, or the placing of the good units in the troop section. Just remove strikes and termintors, and replace them with paladins and intercetors. Both are much different from each other then striks vs termintors, and more or less just taking up slots.


Do something with support units like purfires to make them worth taking. Like at all.

Some way to get plasma, or way to have a working army without it.

I think that would be the basic stuff, they would have to do. Of course extra rules, maybe some sort of special GK only detatachment etc would be nice too, but I am not smart enough to imagine how those should work. GW has people on their pay roll, to know how to do it better then me.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 09:45:33


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


 Jidmah wrote:
Warboss on Warbike

We don't have LoS ignoring weapons (except the comically bad lobba), but we do have planes that can bomb units wherever they are, and they can usually get around whatever is blocking LoS.
.


Yeah, but its a flyer, which means it has to move every turn and can only turn 90 degrees. Which means that if your opponent doesn't kill it, it will kill itself eventually if there are enough screens on the table. I really hate using flyers for that reason. Its something that didn't port over well to 8th ed, as they dropped on-going reserves due to their attempt at simplifying everything. They should have dropped the minimal move and made the max move like 20" or 25". The airborne, hard to hit and flyer designation is already enough to distinguish them as flyers, they didn't need gakky movement rules.

I'd prefer there to be ground based indirect fire. The squiggybuggy could use the indirect fire rule. That would allow it to fill a niche in the ork army, as well as making it a useful harassment tool, as opposed to being completely outclassed by everything in the army.
Also, the idea of a squig just landing on some poor guardsman's face when he's camping behind a wall is pretty funny.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 10:06:53


Post by: Overread


Tyranids -

plastic 3 model kit for Biovore/pyrovores
plastic 3 model kit for lictors/deathleapers
plastic, far bigger Red Terror kit or conversion kit for trigon.
New "Lord of War" model - could even be a single plastic kit for the hyrodule from FW.

Otherwise Tyranids are in a pretty good spot all round, even most of their plastics are good, though I'd welcome a new termaguant set with heads as a single rather than split casting.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 10:10:31


Post by: Amishprn86


Drukhari

Lots of named characters: Vext, Lady, Duck, Baron, Kheradruakh, etc..
HQ's on Bikes/Wings/Skyboards
HQ's options for gear
Cheaper generic characters aka Dracon
10+ pieces of wargear that went missing (Clone fields, oldBladevanes, Old WWP's... GSC has them now and DE doesnt wtf, etc..)
Dias of Destruction



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh PS: Corsairs, almost everything. They were literally built for 8th, they had multi detachments, they had faction traits that couldnt mix detachments or you lose them, they had relics meant for each one, etc.. FW didnt need to do more than 5hrs of work to make them a full army in 8th, but yet here we are with no Corsiars.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 10:21:12


Post by: Sunny Side Up


My GSC need some Caladiuses, Shield Drones, Thunderfire Cannons and, most importantly, 4-armed Knights.

Cheers ...


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 10:24:17


Post by: Pyroalchi


Oh yes, some more named characters for IG would also be nice. At least one per "big" regiment. Or a fair, matched play rule to create named characters yourself.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 10:49:31


Post by: Gir Spirit Bane


My Daemons? Not so much we 'need' but rather a readjustment of what we HAVE.

Big expensive Special character to give friendly Daemons a <Legion> keyword. Maybe have it be a Specialist detachment so it costs CP to open up the world of synergy.

Soul Grinders- Make their weapons assault. That's it. No seriously. I adore Soul Grinders but they're awful currently.

Slaanesh - Give them back a herald on seeker option, they took it AWAY in 40k but still kept it in AoS Slaanesh battletome. I have no words there.

Nurgle - we're pretty good there to be honest, except the GUO is just... bad? Its not even tough for its price point/combat capabilities.

Tzeentch - LoC NEEDS a shooting of attack. Give it I dunno, a Melta Beam weapon to signify a super magic Kamehameha attack? Screamers need WS 3+ and honestly I think they're golden then.

Khorne - Make Bloodcrushers T5 again, and that's it. Bloodcrushers and Plague Drones already have SO much difference in role and rules that the statline can be very similar.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 10:52:33


Post by: SeanDrake


My original army was Inquisition so I am missing models, rules and hope given GW designers think Inquisition should be removed.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 10:52:53


Post by: Not Online!!!


 Amishprn86 wrote:
Drukhari

Lots of named characters: Vext, Lady, Duck, Baron, Kheradruakh, etc..
HQ's on Bikes/Wings/Skyboards
HQ's options for gear
Cheaper generic characters aka Dracon
10+ pieces of wargear that went missing (Clone fields, oldBladevanes, Old WWP's... GSC has them now and DE doesnt wtf, etc..)
Dias of Destruction



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh PS: Corsairs, almost everything. They were literally built for 8th, they had multi detachments, they had faction traits that couldnt mix detachments or you lose them, they had relics meant for each one, etc.. FW didnt need to do more than 5hrs of work to make them a full army in 8th, but yet here we are with no Corsiars.


Dito but replace Corsairs with renegades.
Which makes the status quo for both of these factions sad and hillarious, hillarious -sad and hillariously sad.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 11:12:23


Post by: Overread


Gir Spirit Bane wrote:

Slaanesh - Give them back a herald on seeker option, they took it AWAY in 40k but still kept it in AoS Slaanesh battletome. I have no words there.


Actually its gone from AoS as well. At least if you mean a herald on a seeker mount; the herald on a seeker chariot is still very much there. In fact you can take a herald now on all the chariots, and on foot just not on a seeker. I can only assume they removed it because otherwise it, in theory, left you with 4 seekers in a box and you can only take seekers in AoS in divisions of 5.

Actually mentioning Slaanesh I'd really love to see a new infantry or monster or warrior type of model. The recent update was fantastic, but it was basically all hero and leader models. They are still running around with fiends, seekers, deamonettes and chariots like they have been for years and years. It's more evident in AoS where its a whole army unto itself; whereas in the past Demons was a combined arms battletome with all four gods under one banner. Now that they are all split out I feel that they each need a little extra something. Khorne has quite a lot; Slaanesh needs a turn of some new troops and monsters.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 11:35:39


Post by: Jidmah


Playing and building so much orks lately that I have forgotten about my other army:

Deathguard could use some heavy weapon platform that does the job of obliterators and havocs. Though to be fair, if hellbrutes and defilers weren't such a waste of points, this wouldn't be an issue.
They should also have access to greater possessed, thunder hammer lord and venom crawlers. How can you not give venom crawlers to DG?


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 11:41:01


Post by: wuestenfux


 Amishprn86 wrote:
Drukhari

Lots of named characters: Vext, Lady, Duck, Baron, Kheradruakh, etc..
HQ's on Bikes/Wings/Skyboards
HQ's options for gear
Cheaper generic characters aka Dracon
10+ pieces of wargear that went missing (Clone fields, oldBladevanes, Old WWP's... GSC has them now and DE doesnt wtf, etc..)
Dias of Destruction

Then I also want the Archite to come back.
She had I8 while the Archon had only I7.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 11:41:05


Post by: tneva82


 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Yeah, but its a flyer, which means it has to move every turn and can only turn 90 degrees. Which means that if your opponent doesn't kill it, it will kill itself eventually if there are enough screens on the table. I really hate using flyers for that reason. Its something that didn't port over well to 8th ed, as they dropped on-going reserves due to their attempt at simplifying everything. They should have dropped the minimal move and made the max move like 20" or 25". The airborne, hard to hit and flyer designation is already enough to distinguish them as flyers, they didn't need gakky movement rules.


Apart from flyers not having sensible place to begin with on 40k what you are describing isn't even close to being flyer any more than jeep is one.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 11:46:13


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


tneva82 wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Yeah, but its a flyer, which means it has to move every turn and can only turn 90 degrees. Which means that if your opponent doesn't kill it, it will kill itself eventually if there are enough screens on the table. I really hate using flyers for that reason. Its something that didn't port over well to 8th ed, as they dropped on-going reserves due to their attempt at simplifying everything. They should have dropped the minimal move and made the max move like 20" or 25". The airborne, hard to hit and flyer designation is already enough to distinguish them as flyers, they didn't need gakky movement rules.


Apart from flyers not having sensible place to begin with on 40k what you are describing isn't even close to being flyer any more than jeep is one.


Yeah, the flyer term is stupid. They should really be called gunships or something. Flies higher and faster than a grav tank or something, but not as high or fast as an actual supersonic jet / space ship / whatever.
The current flyer mobility rules don't represent flyers that well either. If you want flyers to act like flyers, rip off Drop Zone Commander's rules for aircraft.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 12:15:27


Post by: Sherrypie


It would be cool if flyers worked like they did in Epic: they arrive basically where they want to, do their thing, get shot at a bit, leave and come back later on. In the current system, they are low-hovering tanks.

As to what is missing, my beloved Death Guard is lacking sense and thematic cohesion while drowning under new and slimy Adjective Nounverbers. Our command staff needs T5 and DR like all others, as do our poor possessed, our dreadnought is less resilient than Iron Hands', our fire support squads are gone (dedicated ones, three special weapons in normal PM's is groovy), our terminators cannot have iconic melee weapons because reasons and we have maybe three useful stratagems. All Land Raiders need the ability to drop troops out after moving, they are literally made for driving in and gorging their occupants out from the ramp. Power of the machine spirit should allow shooting if tagged as well, otherwise said brick that has to move close will always be silenced for ever after it's delivered the cargo. Why we can't have Rapiers or similar light artillery devices, has the legion that was famous for inordinate amount of poison bombing forgotten how to operate mortars while still having the manual dexterity to operate all other conventional arms? Heck, if we can only have sensible units if they're new, I'd be all over a destroyer corps style unit of rad-armed PM's with proper assault gear (the same niche would also be filled by possessed getting DR and funky grenades, though).


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 12:56:53


Post by: vipoid


Dark Eldar:

- Getting back the units that have been stripped out of the codex could be nice (Dracons, Haemonculi Ancients, Vect, Lady Malys, Baron Sathonyx, The Duke, The Decapitator, Trueborn, Bloodbrides etc.)

- More generic HQ options. The fact that Kabal has just a single HQ choice is an absolute failure of game design. Also, if Mandrakes, Scourges etc. are going to be mercenaries (unable to benefit from any traits or auras), can we at least get HQs for them? This would also give us HQs that can be used between factions (rather than being restricted to Kabal, Cult or Coven).

- HQs with actual mobility options. Our army has units with wings, units with skyboards, units with jetbikes, yet our HQs can't access any of them. Why? It wouldn't even require new models, as out army is one of the easiest in the game when it comes to kitbashing.

- Mobility options in general. Harlequins have Rising Crescendo, Eldar have Battle Focus, Dark Eldar have . . . nothing. One of the things I loved about Corsairs in 7th was how mobile they felt. Every infantry model could have a Jet Pack. Every model with a Jetpack had JSJ. Every infantry model that fired at an enemy in pistol-range could immediately jump away. They felt like a fast, agile army. Dark Eldar have some fast transports, but as soon as the units are out they feel barely faster than Necrons. And with no options on HQs, Elites or Troops for Jet Packs (or other mobility options) you can't choose to have faster units.

- Some actual wargear options for HQs.

- Shadowfield rules that don't make me want to puke.

- A buff ability for the Archon that actually makes sense ("Hey, I've got an idea, let's give the leader of a subfaction built around staying inside open-topped transports an aura that doesn't work inside, into or out of transports." ).

- Something to unite the various subfactions. We're still meant to be a single army - not 3 separate armies. It would be nice if there was *something* that could work across the different factions. The Archon seems like a good candidate for this (since he's supposed to be the overall army leader - not just the Kabal leader).

- More options and ways to play. The problem with splitting DE is that the lack of units and aforementioned lack of overlapping buffs means there are (realistically) very few ways to actually play them.

Well, that's about all I can think of for now. I look forward to Psychic Awakening utterly failing to address any of these issues.


 Amishprn86 wrote:

Oh PS: Corsairs, almost everything. They were literally built for 8th, they had multi detachments, they had faction traits that couldnt mix detachments or you lose them, they had relics meant for each one, etc.. FW didnt need to do more than 5hrs of work to make them a full army in 8th, but yet here we are with no Corsiars.


Also, this.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 13:02:22


Post by: the_scotsman


Genestealer Cult have absolutely nothing that can deal with actual Flyers. Nothing melee-oriented with the Fly keyword, and nothing with any kind of anti-air capabilities.

Do we need a plane? God I hope not, honestly. I would much rather see some kind of grappling hook weapon that once you hit a unit with the FLY keyword with it, you could auto-hit that same model on subsequent turns, and if you destroyed the model with that weapon you'd get +2 on the Crash and Burn roll. Something suitably janky like that, rather than just "A flying...mining...plane. Equipped with mining lasers. So they can mine, but then the GSC...they stole that."


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 13:06:54


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


the_scotsman wrote:
Genestealer Cult have absolutely nothing that can deal with actual Flyers. Nothing melee-oriented with the Fly keyword, and nothing with any kind of anti-air capabilities.


Really? Don't they have like rockets or something? Because you'd think that space insurgents would have access to space RPG launchers.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 13:12:50


Post by: Kanluwen


the_scotsman wrote:
Genestealer Cult have absolutely nothing that can deal with actual Flyers. Nothing melee-oriented with the Fly keyword, and nothing with any kind of anti-air capabilities.

You can Brood Brothers in the Hydra, but I get your point.

Do we need a plane? God I hope not, honestly. I would much rather see some kind of grappling hook weapon that once you hit a unit with the FLY keyword with it, you could auto-hit that same model on subsequent turns, and if you destroyed the model with that weapon you'd get +2 on the Crash and Burn roll. Something suitably janky like that, rather than just "A flying...mining...plane. Equipped with mining lasers. So they can mine, but then the GSC...they stole that."

A massive frigall crane with titanium spiderweb nets to 'catch' flyers if they come near it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
Genestealer Cult have absolutely nothing that can deal with actual Flyers. Nothing melee-oriented with the Fly keyword, and nothing with any kind of anti-air capabilities.


Really? Don't they have like rockets or something? Because you'd think that space insurgents would have access to space RPG launchers.

Nothing that natively makes it so you get a way to mitigate the Supersonic bit.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 13:27:29


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


Oh you mean the -1 penalty from hard to hit? Yeah, that sucks.
Even necrons have a tool against that in the form of MWBD.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 13:38:01


Post by: the_scotsman


 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
Genestealer Cult have absolutely nothing that can deal with actual Flyers. Nothing melee-oriented with the Fly keyword, and nothing with any kind of anti-air capabilities.


Really? Don't they have like rockets or something? Because you'd think that space insurgents would have access to space RPG launchers.


You can get lascannon-like weapons in the mining lasers, but they are BS4+ and have no way to mitigate the -to hit.

It's pretty much always the right decision to ignore, rather than engage, flyers as GSC.

Most other armies that don't really have "flyers" per se like daemons can just slap wings on something and punch the planes with a DP or something like that.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 13:45:23


Post by: Jidmah


Good luck punching a hemlock with a DP

My DG usually kill them with smites and plague spitters....


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 13:56:56


Post by: Karol


the_scotsman wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
Genestealer Cult have absolutely nothing that can deal with actual Flyers. Nothing melee-oriented with the Fly keyword, and nothing with any kind of anti-air capabilities.


Really? Don't they have like rockets or something? Because you'd think that space insurgents would have access to space RPG launchers.


You can get lascannon-like weapons in the mining lasers, but they are BS4+ and have no way to mitigate the -to hit.

It's pretty much always the right decision to ignore, rather than engage, flyers as GSC.

Most other armies that don't really have "flyers" per se like daemons can just slap wings on something and punch the planes with a DP or something like that.


maybe the laser carrying dudes should get a rule like the reapers, so that no to hit mods work on them, and they always hit on +4.. would that be good?


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 13:56:58


Post by: G00fySmiley


echoing ork needing snipers. gretchin ratling equivalents would be cool it does suck not begin able to have any answer to characters. as they allow reroll to hits and to wounds ripping apart my hordes even faster. It would be amazing to have something to try and drop those HQs.

For my Tau I want more allies. We know they ally humans and absorb them. seems they could ally guard at this point giving them access to better tanks than they have and more importantly Bullgryn for some actual cc punch. plus some tau armored bullgryn kits would be a fun conversion.

Outside of guard allies maybe a tau ally codex giving them both psychers and a melee race that is actually able to go toe to toe with things liek orks, tyranids, or space marines without folding immediatly. Currently on the rare occation that i play tau I have 2 phases. movement and shooting is it.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 14:04:13


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


 G00fySmiley wrote:
echoing ork needing snipers. gretchin ratling equivalents would be cool it does suck not begin able to have any answer to characters. as they allow reroll to hits and to wounds ripping apart my hordes even faster. It would be amazing to have something to try and drop those HQs.

For my Tau I want more allies. We know they ally humans and absorb them. seems they could ally guard at this point giving them access to better tanks than they have and more importantly Bullgryn for some actual cc punch. plus some tau armored bullgryn kits would be a fun conversion.

Outside of guard allies maybe a tau ally codex giving them both psychers and a melee race that is actually able to go toe to toe with things liek orks, tyranids, or space marines without folding immediatly. Currently on the rare occation that i play tau I have 2 phases. movement and shooting is it.


It would be nice if kommandos could infiltrate instead of deepstrike.
Maybe that would help them get to a character.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 14:18:21


Post by: the_scotsman


 G00fySmiley wrote:
echoing ork needing snipers. gretchin ratling equivalents would be cool it does suck not begin able to have any answer to characters. as they allow reroll to hits and to wounds ripping apart my hordes even faster. It would be amazing to have something to try and drop those HQs.

For my Tau I want more allies. We know they ally humans and absorb them. seems they could ally guard at this point giving them access to better tanks than they have and more importantly Bullgryn for some actual cc punch. plus some tau armored bullgryn kits would be a fun conversion.

Outside of guard allies maybe a tau ally codex giving them both psychers and a melee race that is actually able to go toe to toe with things liek orks, tyranids, or space marines without folding immediatly. Currently on the rare occation that i play tau I have 2 phases. movement and shooting is it.


I'm of two minds with this. On one hand, yes that's fluffy, on the other, not every army needs to be Guard. I get that most armies have some kind of regular human helper type doods, but do we really want to have Guardsmen, Cultists, GSC, R+H, Gue'Vesa, Digganobz, Inquisitorial Acolytes, Knight World Serfs, Frateris Militia, etc in every gosh-darn faction? Especially considering that if we've learned anything from 8th it's that "once it gets a GEQ, there's no going....baq."

GSC? Well I have more brood brothers infantry squads. CSM? Stands for Cultists and Some Marines now. Codex: Goatman AOS Copy/Pastes was a whole controversy when it came out, and ever since has basically Old McAhriman Had a Farm lists.

The only factions standing in the way of the Great Guardsmanening of 8th have been the factions that physically have no ability to pump cheap chaff GEQ bodies into their listmeat like they're bobbleheaded steroid-men.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 14:36:29


Post by: Kanluwen


Simply put, one of the biggest damn mistakes made was to not differentiate between "GEQ" and "CEQ" in any meaningful way.

Conscripts should have been:
WS6+ BS6+ Sv6+ with the rest of the stats being as is.
Ditch the Lasguns, give them Autoguns instead.
Ditch the <Regiment> tag, giving them either Officio Prefectus(the Retraining, Indoctrination, or Penal[RIP] Platoons are supposed fall under the auspices of the Commissariat) or no tags but a rule that they don't detract from Regiment bonuses.
"Raw Recruits" instead becomes that they have to add an additional +1 to their rolls for Leadership tests if they suffered casualty, +1 per 5 models lost.

Cultists should have been treated similarly, with Renegade Guardsmen being their GEQ instead of Cultists being some weird halfway point between them.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 14:57:02


Post by: IanVanCheese


Necrons is weird. We have all the units, we fill all the roles. We just need them to be good.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 14:57:33


Post by: the_scotsman


 Kanluwen wrote:
Simply put, one of the biggest damn mistakes made was to not differentiate between "GEQ" and "CEQ" in any meaningful way.

Conscripts should have been:
WS6+ BS6+ Sv6+ with the rest of the stats being as is.
Ditch the Lasguns, give them Autoguns instead.
Ditch the <Regiment> tag, giving them either Officio Prefectus(the Retraining, Indoctrination, or Penal[RIP] Platoons are supposed fall under the auspices of the Commissariat) or no tags but a rule that they don't detract from Regiment bonuses.
"Raw Recruits" instead becomes that they have to add an additional +1 to their rolls for Leadership tests if they suffered casualty, +1 per 5 models lost.

Cultists should have been treated similarly, with Renegade Guardsmen being their GEQ instead of Cultists being some weird halfway point between them.


I guess you can "Gretchinize" cultist type units (i.e. make them so eyewateringly bad that you have to take the more elite troops if you want them to do anything in combat) but you could also...hear me out...understand that Fluff is never going to equal Gameplay when it comes to Marines, accept that marines are realistically a pretty low-tier unit in the overall scheme of the game, and just not have units that are so cheap that you have to buy 400$ of models to field a full 2k army. A guardsman or a cultist being a half-decent threat to a space marine in a 2:1 or 3:1 fight is definitely going to frustrate marine fanboys, but from a game health standpoint, honestly, it isn't a bad thing as long as they're costed appropriately.

dealing with the endless sea of chaff bodies that horde armies can field at 2k is a neat spectacle, but super obnoxious gameplay wise and places a gigantic financial burden on playing some armies. I really wish we'd just had a couple of price hikes early on in 8th rather than the continuous parade of price cuts to elite units that seems to be slowly bringing them down to parity...But hey, buffs always go over better than nerfs, and GW certainly likes points cuts more than points hikes.

I can't really point to a faction I play that I wouldn't make more elite in-game if I could have my druthers. GSC, definitely, those troop boxes are hideously expensive and I would not mind paying more points for a bit of durability on my hybrids. Tau, absolutely, I'd love to feel like a devilfish full of troops was a legitimate threat and I didn't just need to buy 50-60 fire warriors and run them on foot as a horde. Drukhari, YES, why do I get an immortal superhuman space elf with hyperadvanced technology for the cost of two gretchins?


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 15:30:58


Post by: Kanluwen


It's not even a question of "they're too good!", it's that the Conscripts being as good as they were for the points cost was bad for the health of the game.

3 or 4 points is where Cultists(of the Chaos variety), Conscripts, or Gretchin should be. Maybe Genestealer Cult Neophytes...and you really should just be getting a body with a 6+ save and a crappy gun that gets no synergies or anything like that beyond a Stratagem aimed directly at them at that point.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 15:32:20


Post by: G00fySmiley


the_scotsman wrote:
 G00fySmiley wrote:
echoing ork needing snipers. gretchin ratling equivalents would be cool it does suck not begin able to have any answer to characters. as they allow reroll to hits and to wounds ripping apart my hordes even faster. It would be amazing to have something to try and drop those HQs.

For my Tau I want more allies. We know they ally humans and absorb them. seems they could ally guard at this point giving them access to better tanks than they have and more importantly Bullgryn for some actual cc punch. plus some tau armored bullgryn kits would be a fun conversion.

Outside of guard allies maybe a tau ally codex giving them both psychers and a melee race that is actually able to go toe to toe with things liek orks, tyranids, or space marines without folding immediatly. Currently on the rare occation that i play tau I have 2 phases. movement and shooting is it.


I'm of two minds with this. On one hand, yes that's fluffy, on the other, not every army needs to be Guard. I get that most armies have some kind of regular human helper type doods, but do we really want to have Guardsmen, Cultists, GSC, R+H, Gue'Vesa, Digganobz, Inquisitorial Acolytes, Knight World Serfs, Frateris Militia, etc in every gosh-darn faction? Especially considering that if we've learned anything from 8th it's that "once it gets a GEQ, there's no going....baq."

GSC? Well I have more brood brothers infantry squads. CSM? Stands for Cultists and Some Marines now. Codex: Goatman AOS Copy/Pastes was a whole controversy when it came out, and ever since has basically Old McAhriman Had a Farm lists.

The only factions standing in the way of the Great Guardsmanening of 8th have been the factions that physically have no ability to pump cheap chaff GEQ bodies into their listmeat like they're bobbleheaded steroid-men.


I don't disagree, more the idea of guardsman is adding in an ally for them that fixes certain hoels in the army without needing a whoel new dex or models.

Ditto Orks honestly. it would be cool to have an enslaved races or however you want to call it also with guard or equivilant allies. throw out most of the book options in most cases and just give like access to guarsman, leman russ tanks, chimeras and some hq squads (hell maybe even ratlings and boom they have snipers now too) I would prefer just more ork model options and something different from a battlewagon and some consistency with BS4 but alas GW is very set on orks are BS5 despite them in previous editions being BS4+ equivilant


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 15:42:11


Post by: Nurglitch


 Overread wrote:
Tyranids -

plastic 3 model kit for Biovore/pyrovores
plastic 3 model kit for lictors/deathleapers
plastic, far bigger Red Terror kit or conversion kit for trigon.
New "Lord of War" model - could even be a single plastic kit for the hyrodule from FW.

Otherwise Tyranids are in a pretty good spot all round, even most of their plastics are good, though I'd welcome a new termaguant set with heads as a single rather than split casting.

Agreed. The option to put Crushing Claws on Tyrants, Primes, and Warriors would also be nice, but probably a bridge too far.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 15:52:57


Post by: Yarium


Lots of Factions don't get Snipers. Actually, I'd say it's what seems to most separate the "Order" factions from "Disorder". Order seems to get Snipers (Imperium, Eldar, T'au, Necrons, Harlequins), whereas Disorder seems not to (Tyranids, Orks, Chaos, Dark Eldar). The outliers, are the Sisters and GSC, as Sisters don't currently have sniper-flamers, and GSC do have some sniper characters. Of course, that just means that I would LOVE to see some of the Disorder factions get snipers! Tyranids don't need it, because that's the Lictor's job. Love the idea of an Ork Sniper whose sniper shots should be able to hit everything AROUND their target but still be likely to miss the target, and for sure Chaos should have an artifact or something that turns a Chaos Lord or Lieutenant or someone into a Sniper.

GSC are missing the Cult Limo, but I'm not pining for it. It would be nice for them to have access to some big guns without them needing to bring an Astra Militarum detachment of Brood Brothers. Same goes for some kind of anti-air defense.

Tyranids are missing a Lord of War. Makes no sense that they still don't have one.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 15:56:23


Post by: the_scotsman


 Kanluwen wrote:
It's not even a question of "they're too good!", it's that the Conscripts being as good as they were for the points cost was bad for the health of the game.

3 or 4 points is where Cultists(of the Chaos variety), Conscripts, or Gretchin should be. Maybe Genestealer Cult Neophytes...and you really should just be getting a body with a 6+ save and a crappy gun that gets no synergies or anything like that beyond a Stratagem aimed directly at them at that point.


I fundamentally disagree when the game is as expensive as it is, tbh. If I'm paying 4$ per model for GSC neophytes, I would much much rather they be around their current capabilities (GSC neophytes are honestly pretty balanced at the moment) or even slightly better for more ppm. the only real argument is like "these things need to be crap so the super duper races can be cleaving through them 20 at a time" but in reality, that just means nobody is going to be shelling out the cash to volunteer to play the crappy NPC race.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Yarium wrote:
Lots of Factions don't get Snipers. Actually, I'd say it's what seems to most separate the "Order" factions from "Disorder". Order seems to get Snipers (Imperium, Eldar, T'au, Necrons, Harlequins), whereas Disorder seems not to (Tyranids, Orks, Chaos, Dark Eldar). The outliers, are the Sisters and GSC, as Sisters don't currently have sniper-flamers, and GSC do have some sniper characters. Of course, that just means that I would LOVE to see some of the Disorder factions get snipers! Tyranids don't need it, because that's the Lictor's job. Love the idea of an Ork Sniper whose sniper shots should be able to hit everything AROUND their target but still be likely to miss the target, and for sure Chaos should have an artifact or something that turns a Chaos Lord or Lieutenant or someone into a Sniper.

GSC are missing the Cult Limo, but I'm not pining for it. It would be nice for them to have access to some big guns without them needing to bring an Astra Militarum detachment of Brood Brothers. Same goes for some kind of anti-air defense.

Tyranids are missing a Lord of War. Makes no sense that they still don't have one.


I'm curious why you would attribute Drukhari as a "Disorder" faction while necrons are an "Order" faction. Drukhari are extremely Lawful Evil. Also, as a race, I can't think of anybody but GSC for whom "Assassination" is a common thematic element than Drukhari. Which is why it's so weird that the sole sniper weapon in the drukhari arsenal is an upgrade to an otherwise all-melee unit.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 16:01:46


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


the_scotsman wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
It's not even a question of "they're too good!", it's that the Conscripts being as good as they were for the points cost was bad for the health of the game.

3 or 4 points is where Cultists(of the Chaos variety), Conscripts, or Gretchin should be. Maybe Genestealer Cult Neophytes...and you really should just be getting a body with a 6+ save and a crappy gun that gets no synergies or anything like that beyond a Stratagem aimed directly at them at that point.


I fundamentally disagree when the game is as expensive as it is, tbh. If I'm paying 4$ per model for GSC neophytes, I would much much rather they be around their current capabilities (GSC neophytes are honestly pretty balanced at the moment) or even slightly better for more ppm. the only real argument is like "these things need to be crap so the super duper races can be cleaving through them 20 at a time" but in reality, that just means nobody is going to be shelling out the cash to volunteer to play the crappy NPC race.



I'd wish GW would bring back 20 models a box for cannon fodder, like they once did for guardsmen. Needing to buy several boxes of fodder is daunting.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 16:02:05


Post by: Kanluwen


the_scotsman wrote:

I fundamentally disagree when the game is as expensive as it is, tbh. If I'm paying 4$ per model for GSC neophytes, I would much much rather they be around their current capabilities (GSC neophytes are honestly pretty balanced at the moment) or even slightly better for more ppm. the only real argument is like "these things need to be crap so the super duper races can be cleaving through them 20 at a time" but in reality, that just means nobody is going to be shelling out the cash to volunteer to play the crappy NPC race.

By that same vein, I feel like "my units should do X because I'm paying X per model" is a copout argument same as you seem to for fluff.

And really, the "argument" being made is that there should be an established pattern for the 'meat fodder' units. I've felt that the Neophytes should be in a box of 20 for awhile now, but we still haven't even gotten a damn Start Collecting set for GSC despite the codex actually giving us the exact contents of one!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

I'd wish GW would bring back 20 models a box for cannon fodder, like they once did for guardsmen. Needing to buy several boxes of fodder is daunting.

Frankly, what needs to happen is they need to rejig Guardsmen into being something a tad more 'elite' without going too crazy.

And Conscripts need to be given their own kit. And it shouldn't be something that can easily double as Guardsmen.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 16:15:41


Post by: the_scotsman


 Kanluwen wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:

I fundamentally disagree when the game is as expensive as it is, tbh. If I'm paying 4$ per model for GSC neophytes, I would much much rather they be around their current capabilities (GSC neophytes are honestly pretty balanced at the moment) or even slightly better for more ppm. the only real argument is like "these things need to be crap so the super duper races can be cleaving through them 20 at a time" but in reality, that just means nobody is going to be shelling out the cash to volunteer to play the crappy NPC race.

By that same vein, I feel like "my units should do X because I'm paying X per model" is a copout argument same as you seem to for fluff.

And really, the "argument" being made is that there should be an established pattern for the 'meat fodder' units. I've felt that the Neophytes should be in a box of 20 for awhile now, but we still haven't even gotten a damn Start Collecting set for GSC despite the codex actually giving us the exact contents of one!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

I'd wish GW would bring back 20 models a box for cannon fodder, like they once did for guardsmen. Needing to buy several boxes of fodder is daunting.

Frankly, what needs to happen is they need to rejig Guardsmen into being something a tad more 'elite' without going too crazy.

And Conscripts need to be given their own kit. And it shouldn't be something that can easily double as Guardsmen.


The fluff is literally, in the real world, an accompanying narrative to sell plastic figures. It can, and does, change on a dime and vary tremendously between sources. Quick, how many hovercraft vehicles existed in the imperium of man one second before and one second after Games Workshop came out with a model for a new hover tank? "A space marine is an invincible superwarrior who should be able to fight a squillion guardsmen" sounds great, but create that ruleset and, even if a space marine were perfectly balanced against a squillion guardsmen, some kind of mysterious out-of-universe force would prevent anyone from ever acting out that scenario on the table.

The same force that mysteriously makes elite armies orders of magnitude more popular in local club scenes than hordes, even when hordes dominate the competitive game for months uninterrupted.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 16:22:08


Post by: Eldarsif


Proper Autarch kit

Warp Spider Exarch

Vect

Proper Archon kit


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 17:06:47


Post by: Dysartes


the_scotsman wrote:
Also, as a race, I can't think of anybody but GSC for whom "Assassination" is a common thematic element than Drukhari. Which is why it's so weird that the sole sniper weapon in the drukhari arsenal is an upgrade to an otherwise all-melee unit.

The Officio Assassinorum?


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 17:19:02


Post by: G00fySmiley


 Yarium wrote:
Lots of Factions don't get Snipers. Actually, I'd say it's what seems to most separate the "Order" factions from "Disorder". Order seems to get Snipers (Imperium, Eldar, T'au, Necrons, Harlequins), whereas Disorder seems not to (Tyranids, Orks, Chaos, Dark Eldar). The outliers, are the Sisters and GSC, as Sisters don't currently have sniper-flamers, and GSC do have some sniper characters. Of course, that just means that I would LOVE to see some of the Disorder factions get snipers! Tyranids don't need it, because that's the Lictor's job. Love the idea of an Ork Sniper whose sniper shots should be able to hit everything AROUND their target but still be likely to miss the target, and for sure Chaos should have an artifact or something that turns a Chaos Lord or Lieutenant or someone into a Sniper.

GSC are missing the Cult Limo, but I'm not pining for it. It would be nice for them to have access to some big guns without them needing to bring an Astra Militarum detachment of Brood Brothers. Same goes for some kind of anti-air defense.

Tyranids are missing a Lord of War. Makes no sense that they still don't have one.


oh god... i could see GW doing that with orks. choose a character... you have to hit on a 5, the on a roll of 1-5 you instead hit the closest friendly ork unit, but on a 6 you hit the target... also knowing GW they would cost the same as space marine scounts points wise while only having a 6+ armor and no survivability. "see we gave you guys snipers... why are ork players never happy... they are there see, and the rules are so fluffy"


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 17:19:56


Post by: greatbigtree


While Guard still technically have Rough Riders... something similar that is infantry scale and moves quickly, since I doubt we’ll have them for long.

Something like the GSC bikes and quads would be excellent.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 18:23:38


Post by: Yarium


the_scotsman wrote:
I'm curious why you would attribute Drukhari as a "Disorder" faction while necrons are an "Order" faction. Drukhari are extremely Lawful Evil. Also, as a race, I can't think of anybody but GSC for whom "Assassination" is a common thematic element than Drukhari. Which is why it's so weird that the sole sniper weapon in the drukhari arsenal is an upgrade to an otherwise all-melee unit.


I'm long in the tooth for 40k

Way back when, during the Eye of Terror Campaign, players were grouped into Order and Disorder. Order represented factions that wanted to see Abaddon fail during the 13th Black Crusade. Disorder represented those factions that wanted to see him succeed. Ever since, if I need to split 40k factions into two groups, those are the two. Interesting to note; Necrons were neither Order or Disorder during the campaign, and could file victories under either side. At the end of the campaign, Necrons made a surprise action to help the Imperium. I've loved how GW has run with the events of that campaign with how 8th edition has progressed the story.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 18:33:13


Post by: Kanluwen


the_scotsman wrote:

The fluff is literally, in the real world, an accompanying narrative to sell plastic figures. It can, and does, change on a dime and vary tremendously between sources. Quick, how many hovercraft vehicles existed in the imperium of man one second before and one second after Games Workshop came out with a model for a new hover tank? "A space marine is an invincible superwarrior who should be able to fight a squillion guardsmen" sounds great, but create that ruleset and, even if a space marine were perfectly balanced against a squillion guardsmen, some kind of mysterious out-of-universe force would prevent anyone from ever acting out that scenario on the table.

In fluff or on table? Because in fluff, we had quite a few examples of repulsor-tech/anti-grav stuff. Most of it wasn't really suitable for combat though.

The same force that mysteriously makes elite armies orders of magnitude more popular in local club scenes than hordes, even when hordes dominate the competitive game for months uninterrupted.

What are we defining as "elite armies"? Just low model count?

Because Knights and Custodes really shouldn't count in that regards, since those kits aren't really any cheaper than running a horde army that has a Start Collecting set available for one of the builds.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 18:39:27


Post by: Stormonu


 G00fySmiley wrote:
 Yarium wrote:
Lots of Factions don't get Snipers. Actually, I'd say it's what seems to most separate the "Order" factions from "Disorder". Order seems to get Snipers (Imperium, Eldar, T'au, Necrons, Harlequins), whereas Disorder seems not to (Tyranids, Orks, Chaos, Dark Eldar). The outliers, are the Sisters and GSC, as Sisters don't currently have sniper-flamers, and GSC do have some sniper characters. Of course, that just means that I would LOVE to see some of the Disorder factions get snipers! Tyranids don't need it, because that's the Lictor's job. Love the idea of an Ork Sniper whose sniper shots should be able to hit everything AROUND their target but still be likely to miss the target, and for sure Chaos should have an artifact or something that turns a Chaos Lord or Lieutenant or someone into a Sniper.

GSC are missing the Cult Limo, but I'm not pining for it. It would be nice for them to have access to some big guns without them needing to bring an Astra Militarum detachment of Brood Brothers. Same goes for some kind of anti-air defense.

Tyranids are missing a Lord of War. Makes no sense that they still don't have one.


oh god... i could see GW doing that with orks. choose a character... you have to hit on a 5, the on a roll of 1-5 you instead hit the closest friendly ork unit, but on a 6 you hit the target... also knowing GW they would cost the same as space marine scounts points wise while only having a 6+ armor and no survivability. "see we gave you guys snipers... why are ork players never happy... they are there see, and the rules are so fluffy"


Not that I play orks, but I’d think it would be more fitting if you could equip a Commando with a one-man tellyporta to make them assassins. Range 9”, uses Melee skill and attacks instead of Ballistic skill. Basically, the Ork teleports close to the target, makes a couple of attacks and then teleports away (you just don’t have to actually move the model).


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 18:43:01


Post by: G00fySmiley


 Kanluwen wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:

The fluff is literally, in the real world, an accompanying narrative to sell plastic figures. It can, and does, change on a dime and vary tremendously between sources. Quick, how many hovercraft vehicles existed in the imperium of man one second before and one second after Games Workshop came out with a model for a new hover tank? "A space marine is an invincible superwarrior who should be able to fight a squillion guardsmen" sounds great, but create that ruleset and, even if a space marine were perfectly balanced against a squillion guardsmen, some kind of mysterious out-of-universe force would prevent anyone from ever acting out that scenario on the table.

In fluff or on table? Because in fluff, we had quite a few examples of repulsor-tech/anti-grav stuff. Most of it wasn't really suitable for combat though.

The same force that mysteriously makes elite armies orders of magnitude more popular in local club scenes than hordes, even when hordes dominate the competitive game for months uninterrupted.

What are we defining as "elite armies"? Just low model count?

Because Knights and Custodes really shouldn't count in that regards, since those kits aren't really any cheaper than running a horde army that has a Start Collecting set available for one of the builds.


orks start collectin gis just 10 boyz, w/ 1 nob. 5 nob squad, a painboy and a (useless) deffdred for $90. every list needs 90 boys pretty much without exception for orks. if start collecting boxes are the cheap way then orks need $810 for the 90 boys and for true horde orks they need 3x that.

vs jsut getting boyz boes at 35 a boz, those 90 boyz then run $315 (630 points) and for real green tide means $945 just for (1890 points)

compared to an elite army like custodes or knights that is not even close I have both a custodes and a imperial knights army, it was WAY cheaper than my orks


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Stormonu wrote:
 G00fySmiley wrote:
 Yarium wrote:
Lots of Factions don't get Snipers. Actually, I'd say it's what seems to most separate the "Order" factions from "Disorder". Order seems to get Snipers (Imperium, Eldar, T'au, Necrons, Harlequins), whereas Disorder seems not to (Tyranids, Orks, Chaos, Dark Eldar). The outliers, are the Sisters and GSC, as Sisters don't currently have sniper-flamers, and GSC do have some sniper characters. Of course, that just means that I would LOVE to see some of the Disorder factions get snipers! Tyranids don't need it, because that's the Lictor's job. Love the idea of an Ork Sniper whose sniper shots should be able to hit everything AROUND their target but still be likely to miss the target, and for sure Chaos should have an artifact or something that turns a Chaos Lord or Lieutenant or someone into a Sniper.

GSC are missing the Cult Limo, but I'm not pining for it. It would be nice for them to have access to some big guns without them needing to bring an Astra Militarum detachment of Brood Brothers. Same goes for some kind of anti-air defense.

Tyranids are missing a Lord of War. Makes no sense that they still don't have one.


oh god... i could see GW doing that with orks. choose a character... you have to hit on a 5, the on a roll of 1-5 you instead hit the closest friendly ork unit, but on a 6 you hit the target... also knowing GW they would cost the same as space marine scounts points wise while only having a 6+ armor and no survivability. "see we gave you guys snipers... why are ork players never happy... they are there see, and the rules are so fluffy"


I would love that, heck give snikrot that ability our sneakiest git.

Not that I play orks, but I’d think it would be more fitting if you could equip a Commando with a one-man tellyporta to make them assassins. Range 9”, uses Melee skill and attacks instead of Ballistic skill. Basically, the Ork teleports close to the target, makes a couple of attacks and then teleports away (you just don’t have to actually move the model).


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 18:44:53


Post by: Kanluwen


 G00fySmiley wrote:

orks start collectin gis just 10 boyz, w/ 1 nob. 5 nob squad, a painboy and a (useless) deffdred for $90. every list needs 90 boys pretty much without exception for orks. if start collecting boxes are the cheap way then orks need $810 for the 90 boys and for true horde orks they need 3x that.

vs jsut getting boyz boes at 35 a boz, those 90 boyz then run $315 (630 points) and for real green tide means $945 just for (1890 points)

compared to an elite army like custodes or knights that is not even close I have both a custodes and a imperial knights army, it was WAY cheaper than my orks

Good thing I didn't say a single thing about Orks being a cheap setup, huh?


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 18:51:15


Post by: G00fySmiley


 Kanluwen wrote:
 G00fySmiley wrote:

orks start collectin gis just 10 boyz, w/ 1 nob. 5 nob squad, a painboy and a (useless) deffdred for $90. every list needs 90 boys pretty much without exception for orks. if start collecting boxes are the cheap way then orks need $810 for the 90 boys and for true horde orks they need 3x that.

vs jsut getting boyz boes at 35 a boz, those 90 boyz then run $315 (630 points) and for real green tide means $945 just for (1890 points)

compared to an elite army like custodes or knights that is not even close I have both a custodes and a imperial knights army, it was WAY cheaper than my orks

Good thing I didn't say a single thing about Orks being a cheap setup, huh?


"Because Knights and Custodes really shouldn't count in that regards, since those kits aren't really any cheaper than running a horde army that has a Start Collecting set available for one of the builds."

what horde boxes are there that are good?

Tyranids are 8 genestealers a trygon and a broodlord?
all the demons are often 10 chaff demons plus a few elites and an HQ
guard is 10 guardsman a leman russ, a heavy weapons team and a commisar

non of the start collecting lend themselves to making a good horde army anymore. they are mostly an HQ a heavy or elite and one troops squad. it is sad but alas there is not a cheap way to do a horde army anymore ... well other than 3d printing.

my point is you can't seriosly say that custodes or imperial knight cost even close to what a horde army does


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 18:51:48


Post by: the_scotsman


 Kanluwen wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:

The fluff is literally, in the real world, an accompanying narrative to sell plastic figures. It can, and does, change on a dime and vary tremendously between sources. Quick, how many hovercraft vehicles existed in the imperium of man one second before and one second after Games Workshop came out with a model for a new hover tank? "A space marine is an invincible superwarrior who should be able to fight a squillion guardsmen" sounds great, but create that ruleset and, even if a space marine were perfectly balanced against a squillion guardsmen, some kind of mysterious out-of-universe force would prevent anyone from ever acting out that scenario on the table.

In fluff or on table? Because in fluff, we had quite a few examples of repulsor-tech/anti-grav stuff. Most of it wasn't really suitable for combat though.

The same force that mysteriously makes elite armies orders of magnitude more popular in local club scenes than hordes, even when hordes dominate the competitive game for months uninterrupted.

What are we defining as "elite armies"? Just low model count?

Because Knights and Custodes really shouldn't count in that regards, since those kits aren't really any cheaper than running a horde army that has a Start Collecting set available for one of the builds.


That is oh so wrong. It is orders of magnitude cheaper to build a custode army than it is to build any kind of horde army, with the exception being maybe skitarii I guess? I was mostly thinking about Marines and DG, which are far and away the most popular armies where I play because they offer numerous super cheap options to build your army in the form of starter sets, cheap secondhand figs off ebay and Ezbuild kits.

The dollars to points ratio of pretty much any custode stuff is far better than what you get out of any of the horde armies' start collecting sets, plus there are several (nids, Orks, Daemons) Where their SC sets are very uncompetitive as well as being not great dollars to points.

Often a SC set screws you with one of the units contained and makes it not a useful buy after 1 or 2. There are a couple exceptions like SC Scions, SC Skitarii and SC tau but for the most part the characters aren't characters you want to spam and 1 or more of the units is just not good.



What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 19:23:18


Post by: BoomWolf


TS here, where do I even START?



Named characters could help, we only got 2, and one is a LoW.

More units of ACTUAL RUBRICS. other than base rubrics and scarab occult, there is nothing.

Spells who don't suck, and far more spells

Far more support for spellcasting, its silly codex marines got more and better than TS.

Psychic dreadnauts. we INVENTED the damn thing, why do BA have it and we don't?

Psychic snipers. chaos as a whole lacks snipers, and these were a heresy-era TS thing, might as well slot some here.

Some sort of FA unit, we only got 2 in the entire codex FFS and one is a CSM port.

A GODAMN LEGION TACTIC. the current one means there is no point taking any TS units beyond ahriman and princes, because the vast majority of the units (including some TS specific units!) are not effected AT ALL by it, and even the ones who do, are not greatly so. (+6 range is often meaningless for most spells, and the rubrics/scarabs have horrid spell seleciton anyway.)


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 20:41:48


Post by: Kriswall


Necrons...
1. Canoptek HQ Unit to represent Tomb Worlds where the proper Necrons haven't yet woken.
2. Pariahs. The Black Templars may hate Psykers, but the Necrons know how to shut them down hard. Would be nice to be able to participate in the Psychic Phase somehow.
3. Better transports.

AdMech
1. Skitarii HQ

T'au
1. More functional member species units (eg. Kroot, Vespid, etc)
2. A meaningful close combat unit (probably a member species)
3. A meaningful psyker unit (Kroot who ate Eldar? Niccosar? Any other psychic member species?)


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 21:07:06


Post by: Racerguy180


ccs wrote:Hmm, lets see....

My Squats would like rules.


Ditto also Rules for Grendl & Gunnar from necromunda would be cool.

Also, I would like some Ynarri specific stuff or upgrade sprue.

More Admech only Knights, battle automata & a flyer. Maybe a Vorax equiv?

A new guard infantry squad..cough....cough....Steel Legion, Catachans,somethingto replace Cadians with. I need something to go with Severina Raine(only guard model I have).

Anything not currently planned for the the release of plastic Sororitas!


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 21:25:34


Post by: Morkphoiz


Orks are missing:

- A multipose/multipart Warboss kit. Seriously, how hard can this be? I am so tired of seeing BR-Warbosses.

- Characters with Options. Orks are individualists!

- Actual Character. Orks used to have funky Rules and Rules for kitbashed vehicles. The amount of zero-Option stuff is making me sad. Orks need funky and ded killy stuff which is as dangerous to the enemy as it is to themselves. The 8th ed Codex is just bland and boring.

Daemons:

Why cant every daemon subfaction have something shooty? If you're not playing tzeentch you basically only have 1-2 ranged Options. My nurgle daemons want some ooze vomiting Support!


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 22:35:40


Post by: ERJAK


Everything but Celestine until November.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/04 22:50:21


Post by: VictorVonTzeentch


The Custodes being the Talons of the Emperor and having the Sisters of Silence in the Codex, which could be called, Codex: Talons of the Emperor.

It could have all the Custode stuff presently released, the Sisters of Silence like 1 unit and then more stuff for the Sisters of Silence.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/05 00:29:28


Post by: ArcaneHorror


Morkphoiz wrote:
Daemons:

Why cant every daemon subfaction have something shooty? If you're not playing tzeentch you basically only have 1-2 ranged Options. My nurgle daemons want some ooze vomiting Support!


Exactly what I was thinking. Disease-spewing plaguebearers, elite bloodletters that can throw spears or other simple but deadly ranged weapons; the sky is the limit. Also, possessed CSM need ranged weapons as well. They use SM weapons in the lore, and one of the models even has a hand option for what looks to be a biological flamer of some type.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/05 05:11:42


Post by: v0iddrgn


I echo the Nid Lord of War bit as well as the Necron transport problem.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/05 06:18:20


Post by: Inquisitor Lord Katherine


 ArcaneHorror wrote:
Morkphoiz wrote:
Daemons:

Why cant every daemon subfaction have something shooty? If you're not playing tzeentch you basically only have 1-2 ranged Options. My nurgle daemons want some ooze vomiting Support!


Exactly what I was thinking. Disease-spewing plaguebearers, elite bloodletters that can throw spears or other simple but deadly ranged weapons; the sky is the limit. Also, possessed CSM need ranged weapons as well. They use SM weapons in the lore, and one of the models even has a hand option for what looks to be a biological flamer of some type.


Daemons with hellforged assault rifles would be really cool, and make them really sci-fi daemons as opposed to sticking out like a sore thumb.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/05 07:58:16


Post by: Karol


 Kanluwen wrote:

By that same vein, I feel like "my units should do X because I'm paying X per model" is a copout argument same as you seem to for fluff.

.

Okey, maybe not in all cases. But when a strike costs 20+pts and a better DW wet costs 20pts with a stormshield, then I think there is a problem with unit costs. Because either someone botched the weapon costs for all marine armies, or the base cost of a GK model is WAY overcosted. you can almost get 2 scout for 1 GK. and they have better rules, combo with a milion of rules sm have etc. A intercessor with 2W costs 17pts, you can get 3 for the cost of a single GK termintor. And that is 6 wounds vs 2, more shots, better stratagems etc. The person who wrote the GK point costs either was copy pasting them from somewhere, like the index for example, or had no idea what he was doing why writing the book, and he did the boke rules alone AND the design team boss didn't check the book before it went to print.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
The Custodes being the Talons of the Emperor and having the Sisters of Silence in the Codex, which could be called, Codex: Talons of the Emperor.

It could have all the Custode stuff presently released, the Sisters of Silence like 1 unit and then more stuff for the Sisters of Silence.

they could also add SoS characters, which you could make from the stuff in their plastic box. GK get heros the same way.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/05 08:11:42


Post by: Jidmah


 BoomWolf wrote:
Psychic snipers. chaos as a whole lacks snipers, and these were a heresy-era TS thing, might as well slot some here.

Not disagreeing with anything else, but in my experience TS are one of the best armies when it comes to taking apart characters. I lose more characters per turn to TS psychic powers than I do to eldar snipers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Morkphoiz wrote:
Orks are missing:

- A multipose/multipart Warboss kit. Seriously, how hard can this be? I am so tired of seeing BR-Warbosses.



https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Orks-Warboss-Grukks-Boss-Mob-2018
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Ork-Warboss-with-Big-Choppa

The reason you keep seeing AOBR warbosses is not the lack of models. It's because they are cheap to get on ebay. A new kit won't change that.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/05 08:42:27


Post by: BrianDavion


except a DW vet ISN'T better. a GK strike Marine has a force weapon, and brotherhood of psykers. those are things that has to be counted for points wise. is GW perhaps wrong to make them more expensvie then a simple stormshield? maaaybe. but you can't claim strike squads are just the same as DW vets


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/05 11:50:02


Post by: G00fySmiley


 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
The Custodes being the Talons of the Emperor and having the Sisters of Silence in the Codex, which could be called, Codex: Talons of the Emperor.

It could have all the Custode stuff presently released, the Sisters of Silence like 1 unit and then more stuff for the Sisters of Silence.


ooo forgot that one. I got 4 or 5 talons boxes (i forget) Sisters of Silence I assumed would be part of the army and it would be most of my troops and transports. Alas not though I have the custodes plus some bits to add axes and mostly magnetized for options btu the sisters while painted have not really left their case since 7th. I would love to throw in some lower point troops in there that are decent on thier own plus the psychic protection for the army.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/05 11:55:02


Post by: Sterling191


BrianDavion wrote:
except a DW vet ISN'T better. a GK strike Marine has a force weapon, and brotherhood of psykers. those are things that has to be counted for points wise. is GW perhaps wrong to make them more expensvie then a simple stormshield? maaaybe. but you can't claim strike squads are just the same as DW vets


Strikes also have innate deep strike baked into their cost.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/05 11:58:58


Post by: ArcaneHorror


 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
 ArcaneHorror wrote:
Morkphoiz wrote:
Daemons:

Why cant every daemon subfaction have something shooty? If you're not playing tzeentch you basically only have 1-2 ranged Options. My nurgle daemons want some ooze vomiting Support!


Exactly what I was thinking. Disease-spewing plaguebearers, elite bloodletters that can throw spears or other simple but deadly ranged weapons; the sky is the limit. Also, possessed CSM need ranged weapons as well. They use SM weapons in the lore, and one of the models even has a hand option for what looks to be a biological flamer of some type.


Daemons with hellforged assault rifles would be really cool, and make them really sci-fi daemons as opposed to sticking out like a sore thumb.


I completely agree. Let's have some Doom-style daemons, and not just in terms of the lesser daemons. Having Bloodthirsters with weapons akin to what Knights are armed with would be awesome.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/05 13:37:51


Post by: Karol


BrianDavion 779913 10561356 wrote:except a DW vet ISN'T better. a GK strike Marine has a force weapon, and brotherhood of psykers. those are things that has to be counted for points wise. is GW perhaps wrong to make them more expensvie then a simple stormshield? maaaybe. but you can't claim strike squads are just the same as DW vets

he never gets to used the force weapon though, because he is too slow and there is not enough points for transports. brother hood of psykers means little, because after you cast sanctuary on something big, gate on something big and astral aim on a dread or land raider, you run out of psychic powers to cast. Ah and if your refering to baby smite and shorter range as being a balance to free DW ammo, then I don't think both balance each other out.
And am not claiming that the DW vet is the same as a GK, he isn't. He is better. Just like two scouts are better then one strike. Or an intercessor is better then a strike, by virtue of doctrins and stratagems alone. Plus there is a ton of flexibility to a marine or DW army. If they end up nerfed, you can always take the same models and play it as some other sm chapter. With GK you can't count as them as anything, because no army in the game has the same WYSIWYG load outs.


Strikes also have innate deep strike baked into their cost.

yes on turn two. And for each point in strikes you need something of same cost on the board. So you better have the side of the table with the good cover and a slow army as opponent, because if they swarm objectives turn one, you maybe deep striking in to your own deployment. But you are right that the cost of deep strike is build in to GK models each one of them, and you can max deep strike half the army. Which means the other half is paying for something they can never use.


Daemons with hellforged assault rifles would be really cool, and make them really sci-fi daemons as opposed to sticking out like a sore thumb.

Wouldn't it have to mean the point cost of demon infantry ends up much higher then it is now. If plague bearers got range weapons they would be rather obnoxious, they are already run in every chaos list right now.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/05 13:45:16


Post by: CthuluIsSpy


What if it was a type of demon foot soldier that was available to all factions? Sort of like furies. The idea could be is that they are fragments of souls of people killed by demons, who are reformed into mockeries of what they once were. Hence the presence of demonic firearms. Call them infernal legionaries or something. I would prefer damned legionaries but that's taken.

Basically zombieguys from Doom.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/05 14:11:50


Post by: Jbz`


 wuestenfux wrote:
 Amishprn86 wrote:
Drukhari

Lots of named characters: Vext, Lady, Duck, Baron, Kheradruakh, etc..
HQ's on Bikes/Wings/Skyboards
HQ's options for gear
Cheaper generic characters aka Dracon
10+ pieces of wargear that went missing (Clone fields, oldBladevanes, Old WWP's... GSC has them now and DE doesn't wtf, etc..)
Dias of Destruction

Then I also want the Archite to come back.
She had I8 while the Archon had only I7.


The Archite still exists... But goes by the name Succubus now


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/05 15:41:56


Post by: Reemule


Being smart enough to see where GW is going, I play all primaris Ultramarines. I'm missing heavy infantry based long range firepower. Suppressors and Eliminators are nice, but I'd love a heavy weapon troop in Gravis armor with Lascannons or something.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/05 17:46:07


Post by: PoorGravitasHandling


Still missing a Plague Marine statline Chaos Lord.

Here's hoping Psychic Awakening awakens more than cookie cutter Death Guard options.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/06 15:42:37


Post by: -Guardsman-


 Amishprn86 wrote:
Drukhari

Lots of named characters: Vext, Lady, Duck, Baron, Kheradruakh, etc..
HQ's on Bikes/Wings/Skyboards
[...]
Cheaper generic characters aka Dracon

SO MUCH THIS, if only to make it easier to deal with the Rule of Three and force org. Currently, the RO3 is making it impossible to field two full Kabalite battalions in 2000 pts, unless you take Drazhar.

I mostly want a Dracon, in the neighborhood of 40 pts. But what would be nice too would be some sort of "super-Scourge", perhaps with a character-targeting ability. Both Craftworlds and Harlequins have sniper-type HQ's, and it seems unfair that Drukhari are the only Aeldari faction without one. Dirty/sneaky special rules are supposed to be our thing!


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/06 16:57:07


Post by: Pandabeer


 Jidmah wrote:
Playing and building so much orks lately that I have forgotten about my other army:

Deathguard could use some heavy weapon platform that does the job of obliterators and havocs. Though to be fair, if hellbrutes and defilers weren't such a waste of points, this wouldn't be an issue.
They should also have access to greater possessed, thunder hammer lord and venom crawlers. How can you not give venom crawlers to DG?


I'd be in favor of giving the Plagueburst Crawler Grinding Advance and up its' cost by 40-50 points to turn it into a true battle/ siege tank. It just feels incredibly silly to me that'it's most efficient use seems to be to use it as a threaded Bloatdrone.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/07 03:20:25


Post by: BrianDavion


Karol wrote:
BrianDavion 779913 10561356 wrote:except a DW vet ISN'T better. a GK strike Marine has a force weapon, and brotherhood of psykers. those are things that has to be counted for points wise. is GW perhaps wrong to make them more expensvie then a simple stormshield? maaaybe. but you can't claim strike squads are just the same as DW vets

he never gets to used the force weapon though, because he is too slow and there is not enough points for transports. brother hood of psykers means little, because after you cast sanctuary on something big, gate on something big and astral aim on a dread or land raider, you run out of psychic powers to cast. Ah and if your refering to baby smite and shorter range as being a balance to free DW ammo, then I don't think both balance each other out.
And am not claiming that the DW vet is the same as a GK, he isn't. He is better. Just like two scouts are better then one strike. Or an intercessor is better then a strike, by virtue of doctrins and stratagems alone. Plus there is a ton of flexibility to a marine or DW army. If they end up nerfed, you can always take the same models and play it as some other sm chapter. With GK you can't count as them as anything, because no army in the game has the same WYSIWYG load outs.


Strikes also have innate deep strike baked into their cost.

yes on turn two. And for each point in strikes you need something of same cost on the board. So you better have the side of the table with the good cover and a slow army as opponent, because if they swarm objectives turn one, you maybe deep striking in to your own deployment. But you are right that the cost of deep strike is build in to GK models each one of them, and you can max deep strike half the army. Which means the other half is paying for something they can never use.


Daemons with hellforged assault rifles would be really cool, and make them really sci-fi daemons as opposed to sticking out like a sore thumb.

Wouldn't it have to mean the point cost of demon infantry ends up much higher then it is now. If plague bearers got range weapons they would be rather obnoxious, they are already run in every chaos list right now.


that the force weapon is seldom used is irrelvant, it still needs to be paid for. GKs are hit ahrd by the "jack of all trades" problem I agree. but arguing they should be cheaper then DW Vets is absolutely wrong.

what the GKs need is.... actually they ened a new codex and a ground up re-examining to give them more synergy.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/07 15:42:39


Post by: chimeara


Some way to get my berserkers into combat that isn't a rhino. See some kind of warptime effect on an apostle. Advance and charge built in. Something.

Also, I also want snipers for chaos as well.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/07 16:04:02


Post by: Yarium


 chimeara wrote:
Some way to get my berserkers into combat that isn't a rhino. See some kind of warptime effect on an apostle. Advance and charge built in. Something.

Also, I also want snipers for chaos as well.


There's lots of ways! You just listed 3 .

#1 - Alpha Legion Rhino, pop smokes, enjoy your -2 to being hit. If it's a Nurgle Rhino you can even get Miasma of Pestilence on it for -3 to being hit.
#2 - Okay, you don't want a Rhino. Can I interest you in an allied detachment with a Black Legion Sorcerer? Make the Khorne Berzerkers one of the Legions that can Advance + Charge, Warp-Time them, and that should be a solid 19" move before charges.
#3 - Ah, I see, you're World Eater Pure. Well then sir, you want our Dreadclaw special from Forge World. It's like a Drop Pod that flies. Put the Berzerkers in there with an Icon of Khorne, come out, and reroll that charge distance!
#4 - Still not happy? I'm sorry sir, but your Berzerkers will have to run across the board the board like madmen the way Angron intended.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/07 16:33:58


Post by: chimeara


I've tried dreadclaw. It's mediocre at best. I personally like it but it's just doesn't seem to cut it in competitive play.

Yeah, I prefer playing pure Khorne.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/07 16:46:22


Post by: JNAProductions


How do you get -2 on an Alpha Legion Rhino without Psykery?

They don't get Legion Traits.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/07 17:09:38


Post by: Amishprn86


So.... I've been talking to my Dark kin.. aka other Drukhari players.

And we have come to find out DE has gotten 0 new entry units since 2011 (and that was FW, 2010 for non-FW, it was the Tantalus)

Looking at all other armies, every army has gotten a new datasheet/unit entry of some kind, it being a gakky GK character, new bikers, new troops, etc.. all other armies has gotten at least 1 thing and all but 1 (GK's) has gotten 3+ some getting 9+ others getting more (SM but thats normal).
Harlequins technically didnt get anything new, but htey got a full plastic range with their own codex and a complete rewrite of rules to make them playable.

So i'm kinda upset now that DE has only had things taken away (12 HQ options, 12 wargear options, 2 elite units, 1 heavy vehicle, 1 game changing mechanic that GSC's now have, rules changes that completely change how units are played, and more) and yet we only got a couple plastic upgrades, 2 which were needed (Wracks and Bomber, wracks literally well apart, literally the worst finecast unit in the game), and 1 no one wanted and most dont like (Archon new plastic).

Yep, i'm very salty now.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/07 17:44:09


Post by: Yarium


 JNAProductions wrote:
How do you get -2 on an Alpha Legion Rhino without Psykery?

They don't get Legion Traits.


I'm trying to find it, but I swear I saw something on Warhammer Community when the Space Marine codex was coming out that they said all the vehicles were now going to get Chapter Traits, and they pointed out that the same would apply to Chaos...


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/07 17:57:07


Post by: JNAProductions


 Yarium wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
How do you get -2 on an Alpha Legion Rhino without Psykery?

They don't get Legion Traits.


I'm trying to find it, but I swear I saw something on Warhammer Community when the Space Marine codex was coming out that they said all the vehicles were now going to get Chapter Traits, and they pointed out that the same would apply to Chaos...
Unless there's an FAQ or Errata I missed, Chaos is stuck on just Infantry, Bikes, Helbrutes, and Characters.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/07 18:45:36


Post by: Karol



that the force weapon is seldom used is irrelvant, it still needs to be paid for. GKs are hit ahrd by the "jack of all trades" problem I agree. but arguing they should be cheaper then DW Vets is absolutely wrong.

The special ammo alone is mind breaking good, comparing to what GK have, we get it as a one per unit 2CP stratagem. DW get it on all thier dudes. There is no way a short range smite, and melee weapons that are hard to use, balance out, special ammo and a storm shield you get to use every time. Either the DW cost too little(I don't think so) or GK strikes cost really too much. And this is before going in to utility stuff like DW not needing to go full stormshields, being able to add a +2sv termintor to tank some ap0 shots, even their stratagems are better, if situational. And by the way am not claiming that DW are somehow some uber destroyers of the meta, that reap and tear everything they face. People said that strikes deep strike for free, and that this is somehow a bonus over DW who have to pay 1 CP to do so. Well if I use blessed ammo one time, I have just paid as much a DW player need to pay to deep strike two units.

Jack of old traits is stuff like intercessors buffs in the new books, can take a sword or hammer or a fist on a sgt. can make it +1D, but you don't have to. short range units can get auto bolters, rest normal bolters, and if you don't have eliminators or really hate some characters in your meta, you can even take the sniper ones. Those are jack of trade units. fit to do everything. Puting a melee weapon on something that doesn't even want to be in melee, should not cost points.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/07 22:51:02


Post by: Jidmah


 Yarium wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
How do you get -2 on an Alpha Legion Rhino without Psykery?

They don't get Legion Traits.


I'm trying to find it, but I swear I saw something on Warhammer Community when the Space Marine codex was coming out that they said all the vehicles were now going to get Chapter Traits, and they pointed out that the same would apply to Chaos...


The only thing applied to chaos is the extra attack all the marines got.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/08 01:24:39


Post by: BoomWolf


Yea, nothing that comes close to match to codex marines.
Chaos can't have nice things.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/08 07:40:09


Post by: Not Online!!!


 Jidmah wrote:
 Yarium wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
How do you get -2 on an Alpha Legion Rhino without Psykery?

They don't get Legion Traits.


I'm trying to find it, but I swear I saw something on Warhammer Community when the Space Marine codex was coming out that they said all the vehicles were now going to get Chapter Traits, and they pointed out that the same would apply to Chaos...



The only thing applied to chaos is the extra attack all the marines got.



Correct, if chapter tactics would have applied a lot less nacl would be produced by us Chaos players.

Alas it isn't the first time we are stuck with what amounts to a last edition dex


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/08 08:58:48


Post by: Pandabeer


 BoomWolf wrote:
Yea, nothing that comes close to match to codex marines.
Chaos can't have nice things.


Yes, we totally didn't get the Discolord, Syll'Eske and Contorted Epitome. Nor the Heretical 17. Nor the Reaper Chaincannon. Nor some excellent renegade chapter and Black Legion rules and strats. Although I admit that the other "first founding" legions were left a bit wanting compared to renegades and BL.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/08 15:27:13


Post by: BoomWolf


Dude, "chaos can't have nice things" is a meme for the fact for everything chaos gets, loyalists get far, FAR more.

And you can't even begin to argue they dont, seeing how these day a word bearer does not even match a loyalist marine WITHOUT chapter tactics.

Loyalist chapter tactics are far superior (and effect tanks too, ours do not), they get additional bonuses for being pure marines with the doctrines-and we got nothing that matches it, they get more abilities for lower points per model.

Chaos CANT have nice things.every time we do, loyalists just something that curb-stomps us right afterwards.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/08 15:45:24


Post by: Kanluwen


Cool, trade you Raven Guard Chapter Tactics for Alpha Legion.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/09 00:31:45


Post by: Dakka Wolf


Space Wolves.
...a decent naming system.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Kanluwen wrote:
Cool, trade you Raven Guard Chapter Tactics for Alpha Legion.

You should carry ice for your victims.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/09 00:51:55


Post by: Kanluwen


 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Space Wolves.
...a decent naming system.

Poor Space Wolves...they suffer from the same issue as Space Marines, period.

The names are too descriptive in some cases.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Cool, trade you Raven Guard Chapter Tactics for Alpha Legion.

You should carry ice for your victims.

I should add that I'm personally a fan of the change. It's just going to be a long wait for everyone else to be brought into line, and until then...it's technically a nerf.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/09 07:57:08


Post by: BrianDavion


 Kanluwen wrote:
Cool, trade you Raven Guard Chapter Tactics for Alpha Legion.


you might be singing a differant tune in a week or so.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/09 08:04:31


Post by: Dysartes


 BoomWolf wrote:
Chaos can't have nice things.

Your penance for the 3.5 'dex is... incomplete.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/09 08:21:32


Post by: Hawky


For Guard...

Landspeeder Storm, or some other form of fast, flying light transport. I know we have Valkyries and Avruses, but Valkyries are expensive and... whoever uses the Avrus, really?
Specialized Veterans, they had the option to take carapace armor or camo cloaks in the past, but it was taken away from them. If they could take Lascarbines (Assault 2 18" lasgun, FRFSRF gives +1 shot), I would love GW even more.
Tons of named characters
Medium / Cavalry tank. Something like Carnodon, but with non-FW rules and model. We already have a heavy / infantry tank, the ubiquitous Leman Russ.
Horseback cavalry + epic horseback commissar figure.
Penal Legion

That would be all, I guess.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/09 08:21:56


Post by: Karol


 Dysartes wrote:
 BoomWolf wrote:
Chaos can't have nice things.

Your penance for the 3.5 'dex is... incomplete.


See I don't get it when people say this. Is it like a real thing? Because from what I understand, eldar had OP rules in almost every edition they had rules, they get no penance. yet chaos somehow should be punished for a 3ed codex, there are probably people who weren't born when the codex was out, that want to play chaos now.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/09 08:25:37


Post by: BrianDavion


Karol wrote:
 Dysartes wrote:
 BoomWolf wrote:
Chaos can't have nice things.

Your penance for the 3.5 'dex is... incomplete.


See I don't get it when people say this. Is it like a real thing? Because from what I understand, eldar had OP rules in almost every edition they had rules, they get no penance. yet chaos somehow should be punished for a 3ed codex, there are probably people who weren't born when the codex was out, that want to play chaos now.


I don't think it is, but there's always an element of people who can't let go of ancient history. weather it's a codex that came out 20 years ago, or a narrative event that benifited one faction that occured when most of the current player base was still in diapers.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/09 08:26:25


Post by: Da Boss


I think it was a joke.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/09 08:26:55


Post by: Not Online!!!


Karol wrote:
 Dysartes wrote:
 BoomWolf wrote:
Chaos can't have nice things.

Your penance for the 3.5 'dex is... incomplete.


See I don't get it when people say this. Is it like a real thing? Because from what I understand, eldar had OP rules in almost every edition they had rules, they get no penance. yet chaos somehow should be punished for a 3ed codex, there are probably people who weren't born when the codex was out, that want to play chaos now.


The 3.5 ed dex is somewhat infamous.
Basically it was broken, rulewise, to the point of no return.
Otoh it fleshed out the legions and chaos as a whole propperly.

Afterwards came the bland 4.0 ed dex for Chaos which literally remained for 2-3 editions and was, terrible for all non bl / warband csm Players.


And yes it was a joke.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/09 09:11:05


Post by: Karol


Okey, I kind of a do miss such stuff as jokes. But what is funny about the fact that someone has had a good codex 20 years ago last time? Is it like that thing where people are more happy knowing someone lost a lottery ticket, then winning a small amount themselfs?


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/09 09:23:58


Post by: Not Online!!!


Karol wrote:
Okey, I kind of a do miss such stuff as jokes. But what is funny about the fact that someone has had a good codex 20 years ago last time? Is it like that thing where people are more happy knowing someone lost a lottery ticket, then winning a small amount themselfs?


I wouldn't say per se that the codex CSM now got, is bad, it's just that CSM got updated to 2.0 again, without actually getting 2.0 fixes unlike marines. (mostly in regards to traits really and some units)
However i might be biased due to (well not anymore really) mostly playing R&H.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/09 09:34:23


Post by: Jidmah


Karol wrote:
Okey, I kind of a do miss such stuff as jokes. But what is funny about the fact that someone has had a good codex 20 years ago last time? Is it like that thing where people are more happy knowing someone lost a lottery ticket, then winning a small amount themselfs?


We still have player in our group who packs up and leaves against any player bringing GK because they are so OP, because he got tabled twice by them during 5th. It is kind of funny.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/09 10:29:37


Post by: some bloke


I want orks to start using their big stompy monsters - a few flavours of squiggoth with a nice plastic kit would suck a fiar bit of moolah from my wallet! It would also give a nice snakebites flavour back to the orks.

I'd also love to see grots riding squigs, as a fast but terrible unit, where you roll to see if the grots or the squigs are in control each turn (not too detrimental, just whether they have to charge or whether they choose to). Perhaps a simple rule stating that if they are within 12" of a vehicle which moved this turn, they have to charge it.

Or have a "Squig" keyword, and state that if a friendly unit is in the same combat as a unit with "Squig", to hit rolls of 1 from the Squig unit instead inflict 1 hit on the non-squig unit - squigs don't care what they bite!


I'm digressing, but the jist is more flavour for the orks love of stompy & bitey things.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/09 11:39:23


Post by: Kanluwen


BrianDavion wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
Cool, trade you Raven Guard Chapter Tactics for Alpha Legion.


you might be singing a differant tune in a week or so.

Maybe. Maybe not.
The supplements haven't, as far as I know, done anything with regards to the Chapter Tactics--just given a bonus while certain Doctrines are active.

Having a multi-conditional(IF in Cover, IF farther than 12", IF Infantry) Chapter Tactic that can be negated by wargear or other <Insert Subfaction Here> is a bit...well, situational.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/09 11:54:17


Post by: Not Online!!!


 Kanluwen wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
Cool, trade you Raven Guard Chapter Tactics for Alpha Legion.


you might be singing a differant tune in a week or so.

Maybe. Maybe not.
The supplements haven't, as far as I know, done anything with regards to the Chapter Tactics--just given a bonus while certain Doctrines are active.

Having a multi-conditional(IF in Cover, IF farther than 12", IF Infantry) Chapter Tactic that can be negated by wargear or other <Insert Subfaction Here> is a bit...well, situational.


Sure, are you also willing to pay spike tax?
Atm about 10% ca.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/09 11:55:53


Post by: Kanluwen


Not Online!!! wrote:

Sure, are you also willing to pay spike tax?
Atm about 10% ca.

Sure, but only when Cultists remove Legion Traits from your army.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/09 11:59:53


Post by: Not Online!!!


 Kanluwen wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:

Sure, are you also willing to pay spike tax?
Atm about 10% ca.

Sure, but only when Cultists remove Legion Traits from your army.

Why should they remove legion tactics exactly?


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/09 12:42:43


Post by: Kanluwen


Not Online!!! wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:

Sure, are you also willing to pay spike tax?
Atm about 10% ca.

Sure, but only when Cultists remove Legion Traits from your army.

Why should they remove legion tactics exactly?

Why shouldn't they?

You want the Space Marines treatment, you got it! Cultists come in Codex: Cultists, for all your Command Point Generating Needs!
Cultists not included, some Command Point Generating Needs may not outweigh the benefits of a Doctrines system. Consult your nearest Warmaster for details if Command Point Generating Needs Exceed 6 CPs. Some Heretic Astartes may have problems with Doctrines, consult Warmaster for details.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/09 12:44:20


Post by: Not Online!!!


 Kanluwen wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:

Sure, are you also willing to pay spike tax?
Atm about 10% ca.

Sure, but only when Cultists remove Legion Traits from your army.

Why should they remove legion tactics exactly?

Why shouldn't they?

You want the Space Marines treatment, you got it! Cultists come in Codex: Cultists, for all your Command Point Generating Needs!
Cultists not included, some Command Point Generating Needs may not outweigh the benefits of a Doctrines system. Consult your nearest Warmaster for details if Command Point Generating Needs Exceed 6 CPs. Some Heretic Astartes may have problems with Doctrines, consult Warmaster for details.


Nice one.
But you forget that RC is allready better at cp then cultists


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/09 13:43:45


Post by: the_scotsman


Morkphoiz wrote:
Orks are missing:

- A multipose/multipart Warboss kit. Seriously, how hard can this be? I am so tired of seeing BR-Warbosses.

- Characters with Options. Orks are individualists!

- Actual Character. Orks used to have funky Rules and Rules for kitbashed vehicles. The amount of zero-Option stuff is making me sad. Orks need funky and ded killy stuff which is as dangerous to the enemy as it is to themselves. The 8th ed Codex is just bland and boring.

Daemons:

Why cant every daemon subfaction have something shooty? If you're not playing tzeentch you basically only have 1-2 ranged Options. My nurgle daemons want some ooze vomiting Support!


I love, I freaking love the fact that there are multiple ork units now that have a weapon that is called "Kustom (x)" and "Kustom" has been turned into a standard, branded subtype of weapon analogous to "melta" or "Plasma" that has a distinctive muzzle and appearance type so when it shows up on a model you can immediately see that it is a "Kustom" weapon and you know exactly the statline and role it is going to have.

Makes me want to gouge my brain out with a grapefruit spoon.

I am..somewhat of two minds about this, to be honest. On one hand, I 100% agree that as a Thousand Sons player I have this gigantic, humongously customizable 60$ kit box to create my faction's signature super-special unique HQ. And - everyone, do me a favor here, go look up the sprues for the Exalted Sorceror box, this kit is seriously a work of art, and since you are literally making only 3 models from the box the level of customization is ABSURD. Every helmet is unique, every torso is unique, you got separate capes, you got separate tassels, you got staff arms in all kinds of poses and the staff heads are all separated from the ends, you do only have 3 leg poses but everything's compatible with the normal rubric legs if you want to use those....it's a really wonderful kit.

Ruleswise, here are the options represented:

-Disc or no disc.
-Force Staff and Pistol, or Force Staff and Force Sword (btw that second option is totally useless and pointless so you're just spending an extra 10pts to lose your shooting attack and look cool.)

So the gakky thing is, I've got this amazing kit and I can build the models however I like but there's no impact on their rules.

But the good thing is, I've got this amazing kit and I can build the models however I like but there's no impact on their rules.

I have four exalted sorcerors at this point, and when I play my Thousand Sons, I can just pick one. I don't have to care that the one I made with the mutated legs and the extra arm has a useless 30-pt upgrade tied to gak rules glued onto him. I don't always have to pick the one with the bird beak helmet because the Helmet of Shmazing is really good in the current all-Kroot Leafblower Las-Plas-Raz Triptideknight meta.

I know the old refrain is always "But b-but if we have the options and they're balanced then we get to make choices and everyone is happy!" but, come on. When has there ever in the history of the goddamn game been a moment when there wasn't a single best build for every character with options, and if you don't have that build on your model you either have to rip him up, or you have to say "His sword is actually a thunder hammer. It's a really heavy sword. and his pistol is a storm shield, he's got a force field projector on it."


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/10 01:43:39


Post by: dominuschao


I'll chime in for chaos. As someone who has built and played every faction of loyalist sm and many twice plus various xenos I have to say I have wanted to start a chaos army since 4th. Only the rules sucked so hard I couldn't bring myself to until now in 8th edition.

I currenlty play csm and I enjoy it. However, gw DOES have a trend of releasing chaos first, for a test run of the real business, which is then released soon after. Rinse repeat. While I'm not salty like longer standing chaos players I understand and agree with the sentiment. Its BS.


As for chaos wish lists:

-Make chaos space marines decent at more than RC cp batteries. The RCC almost did it, for a moment.

-LOS ignoring weapons. Its getting to the point where some armies can bring full armies of the stuff. If so then everyone needs some and not just on deredeos.


-Snipers same.

-Storm shield equivalents. I used to believe loyalist got shields because heretics got more killy stuff. Not really true anymore.

-drop pod equivalent. This has been a wishlist for heretics since dpa was conceived.

-A fast attack section.

-More than one flyer. Or make it worth taking.

-More than one transport. Or make land raiders worth taking.

In short I'd like gw to break the trend of making chaos this giant conglomeration of mostly gak choices with a few standouts we can spam.




What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/10 08:43:19


Post by: some bloke


1+ on the "Orks need options" statements.

Serious;ly, the idea that all the ork meks on all the ork worlds would create the same buggy, with the same weapons, firing the same type of squigs is simply garbage.

It only takes a little bit of time and a little bit of thought to make the things more interesting. Keep the standard builds, as they're easier to balance, but just give us some options - even if the models don't change. EG give us 8 types of squig, with points for each ammo type you want to carry on the squigbuggy, so you can choose how flexible you want the model to be. Give the scrapjet a few types of missiles to choose from (ground to air missiles would be a great option).


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/10 09:20:41


Post by: Not Online!!!


But you allready got all those KUSTOM dakka options.



For the record i am beeing sarcastic. and find the monopose mono build annoying


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/10 09:21:33


Post by: Amishprn86


Wait........... Why isnt all SM players saying MOVIE MARINES?

That was funny as all to play and in 8th it would fit better than it did back in the day.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/10 09:47:37


Post by: Jidmah


Primaris are movie marines. Hard to kill, vehicles are rare and they solve all problems with bolters.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/10 09:52:26


Post by: some bloke


what I don't understand is the motivation behind not giving us options.

The implication is that they don't want people converting things - no kit, no rules. However, if you give people the option for a rokkit on a trukk, people would buy kits with rokkits in to be able to convert them.


I may actually write this to them as a suggestion - Kustom Job box set. Basically a box set with a bunch of upgrades and new options for the ork vehicles.

EG Trukk "Kustom Job" would feature upgrades for:
Rokkit launcher
Half-trakk
gun trukk
& a bunch of other options.

Then they could release additional rules for the upgrades and add some flexibility to the army one kit at a time. They already have the Battlewagon Upgrade sprue, so it's just an expansion of that.

Kits to add upgrades for would be:

Buggies: a variety of guns & rams etc, lots of people want rams on different buggies.
Dreads & Kans: more weapons, and perhaps ablative plating (heavy dread, move 5, more wounds, 2+ save), maybe something wacky like jump-packs for kans (roll a D6 each turn, on a 3+ move that much extra, on a 1-2 take D3 mortal wounds).
Trukks: as above, weapons & options alive alive-o
Fliers: Bomms & Guns, maybe a stormboy transport option that drops them like a bomm?
Battlewagons: bigger guns would be nice.

I'm sure that this principle can apply to other armies as well - I just don't know them well enough to comment!


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/10 10:23:30


Post by: TheFleshIsWeak


the_scotsman wrote:

So the gakky thing is, I've got this amazing kit and I can build the models however I like but there's no impact on their rules.

But the good thing is, I've got this amazing kit and I can build the models however I like but there's no impact on their rules.

I have four exalted sorcerors at this point, and when I play my Thousand Sons, I can just pick one. I don't have to care that the one I made with the mutated legs and the extra arm has a useless 30-pt upgrade tied to gak rules glued onto him. I don't always have to pick the one with the bird beak helmet because the Helmet of Shmazing is really good in the current all-Kroot Leafblower Las-Plas-Raz Triptideknight meta.


Have to disagree with this.

I get that options will never be perfectly balanced but I'll still take poorly-balanced customisation over no customisation at all.

There's just something so depressing about having 2-3 HQs with completely identical wargear.

When I field the same HQ multiple times, I want to be able to represent different characters - not one character and his 2 identical clones.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/10 11:44:37


Post by: G00fySmiley


 some bloke wrote:
what I don't understand is the motivation behind not giving us options.

The implication is that they don't want people converting things - no kit, no rules. However, if you give people the option for a rokkit on a trukk, people would buy kits with rokkits in to be able to convert them.


I may actually write this to them as a suggestion - Kustom Job box set. Basically a box set with a bunch of upgrades and new options for the ork vehicles.

EG Trukk "Kustom Job" would feature upgrades for:
Rokkit launcher
Half-trakk
gun trukk
& a bunch of other options.

Then they could release additional rules for the upgrades and add some flexibility to the army one kit at a time. They already have the Battlewagon Upgrade sprue, so it's just an expansion of that.

Kits to add upgrades for would be:

Buggies: a variety of guns & rams etc, lots of people want rams on different buggies.
Dreads & Kans: more weapons, and perhaps ablative plating (heavy dread, move 5, more wounds, 2+ save), maybe something wacky like jump-packs for kans (roll a D6 each turn, on a 3+ move that much extra, on a 1-2 take D3 mortal wounds).
Trukks: as above, weapons & options alive alive-o
Fliers: Bomms & Guns, maybe a stormboy transport option that drops them like a bomm?
Battlewagons: bigger guns would be nice.

I'm sure that this principle can apply to other armies as well - I just don't know them well enough to comment!


I doubt GW would do this. mostly because peopel would build thier own. the chapterhouse lawsuit scared them enough that now they want every bit of a kit to be on the sprue, very legal piece of war gear to be there and in several newer models it means limited or no wargear options where the model builds as 1 kit into that model armed as that model is armed (see the ork buggie)


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/10 11:54:00


Post by: the_scotsman


 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:

So the gakky thing is, I've got this amazing kit and I can build the models however I like but there's no impact on their rules.

But the good thing is, I've got this amazing kit and I can build the models however I like but there's no impact on their rules.

I have four exalted sorcerors at this point, and when I play my Thousand Sons, I can just pick one. I don't have to care that the one I made with the mutated legs and the extra arm has a useless 30-pt upgrade tied to gak rules glued onto him. I don't always have to pick the one with the bird beak helmet because the Helmet of Shmazing is really good in the current all-Kroot Leafblower Las-Plas-Raz Triptideknight meta.


Have to disagree with this.

I get that options will never be perfectly balanced but I'll still take poorly-balanced customisation over no customisation at all.

There's just something so depressing about having 2-3 HQs with completely identical wargear.

When I field the same HQ multiple times, I want to be able to represent different characters - not one character and his 2 identical clones.


To me that has more to do with the models than the rules. I feel fine about fielding 3 exalted sorcerors that perform the same but look totally different. It annoys me to field 3 identical clone Succubi that look the same because there's only one model for succubi.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/10 12:36:21


Post by: TheFleshIsWeak


the_scotsman wrote:

To me that has more to do with the models than the rules. I feel fine about fielding 3 exalted sorcerors that perform the same but look totally different. It annoys me to field 3 identical clone Succubi that look the same because there's only one model for succubi.


For me it's definitely the rules. I've got a pile of custom/converted HQs, but it feels pointless when they all play the same anyway.


Regardless, I do have a question for you - does customising psychic powers for Exalted Sorcerers help make up for the lack of wargear options? Or do they still feel the same regardless of which powers you give them?

Also, out of curiosity, do you associate particular powers with particular models (e.g. the model with Sword and Staff always gets Warptime)?


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/10 12:50:35


Post by: the_scotsman


 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:

To me that has more to do with the models than the rules. I feel fine about fielding 3 exalted sorcerors that perform the same but look totally different. It annoys me to field 3 identical clone Succubi that look the same because there's only one model for succubi.


For me it's definitely the rules. I've got a pile of custom/converted HQs, but it feels pointless when they all play the same anyway.


Regardless, I do have a question for you - does customising psychic powers for Exalted Sorcerers help make up for the lack of wargear options? Or do they still feel the same regardless of which powers you give them?

Also, out of curiosity, do you associate particular powers with particular models (e.g. the model with Sword and Staff always gets Warptime)?


Only in explicitly fluffy games (Which is mostly where I bring those models as Esorcs tbh because otherwise they're the sergeants for my rubric squads because they're pretty). But they aren't always the same, I just usually give one guy Temporal Manipulation and Warptime. The choice of psychic powers does definitely make some difference, and I will never not cheer on any rules GW puts in allowing "your dudes" without no model no rules getting in the way. I love the new Exarch and Chaplain powers for example.



What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/10 13:50:32


Post by: TheFleshIsWeak


the_scotsman wrote:
 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:

To me that has more to do with the models than the rules. I feel fine about fielding 3 exalted sorcerors that perform the same but look totally different. It annoys me to field 3 identical clone Succubi that look the same because there's only one model for succubi.


For me it's definitely the rules. I've got a pile of custom/converted HQs, but it feels pointless when they all play the same anyway.


Regardless, I do have a question for you - does customising psychic powers for Exalted Sorcerers help make up for the lack of wargear options? Or do they still feel the same regardless of which powers you give them?

Also, out of curiosity, do you associate particular powers with particular models (e.g. the model with Sword and Staff always gets Warptime)?


Only in explicitly fluffy games (Which is mostly where I bring those models as Esorcs tbh because otherwise they're the sergeants for my rubric squads because they're pretty). But they aren't always the same, I just usually give one guy Temporal Manipulation and Warptime. The choice of psychic powers does definitely make some difference, and I will never not cheer on any rules GW puts in allowing "your dudes" without no model no rules getting in the way. I love the new Exarch and Chaplain powers for example.



Fair enough. And yeah, if wargear options are going to be diminished I'll happily accept options like Chaplain or Exarch Powers instead.

Tbh, this is one of the reasons I'd like Drukhari to get apsyker HQ - since Psychic powers are one of the few things that still offer a decent amount of choice.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/10 13:59:57


Post by: ThePorcupine


-Guardsman- wrote:
Both Craftworlds and Harlequins have sniper-type HQ's, and it seems unfair that Drukhari are the only Aeldari faction without one.

If you're referring to death jesters, they're elites, not HQs. And there's no other sniper in the harlequin army.

Speaking of Harlequins... what's our faction missing?... BWAHAHAHA

Everything. We have 8 unit entries. Count em. EIGHT. The biggest joke of a release in all of 8th edition. 2 HQs. 1 troop. 2 elites. 1 fast. 1 transport. 1 heavy. That's it. No named characters. No flyers. No chaff. No artillery. No nothing.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/10 14:20:34


Post by: TheFleshIsWeak


ThePorcupine wrote:
-Guardsman- wrote:
Both Craftworlds and Harlequins have sniper-type HQ's, and it seems unfair that Drukhari are the only Aeldari faction without one.

If you're referring to death jesters, they're elites, not HQs. And there's no other sniper in the harlequin army.

Speaking of Harlequins... what's our faction missing?... BWAHAHAHA

Everything. We have 8 unit entries. Count em. EIGHT. The biggest joke of a release in all of 8th edition. 2 HQs. 1 troop. 2 elites. 1 fast. 1 transport. 1 heavy. That's it. No named characters. No flyers. No chaff. No artillery. No nothing.


I think I'd chalk this up to 'Grey Knight Syndrome' in that trying to make a solo army out of a single unit rarely ends well.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/10 14:58:30


Post by: the_scotsman


ThePorcupine wrote:
-Guardsman- wrote:
Both Craftworlds and Harlequins have sniper-type HQ's, and it seems unfair that Drukhari are the only Aeldari faction without one.

If you're referring to death jesters, they're elites, not HQs. And there's no other sniper in the harlequin army.

Speaking of Harlequins... what's our faction missing?... BWAHAHAHA

Everything. We have 8 unit entries. Count em. EIGHT. The biggest joke of a release in all of 8th edition. 2 HQs. 1 troop. 2 elites. 1 fast. 1 transport. 1 heavy. That's it. No named characters. No flyers. No chaff. No artillery. No nothing.


Yeah also, it'd be nice if we could have a little creativity back?

You know, since every option in our codex got reduced down to just different stat-swaps, I'd like to be the "fun, wacky rules that do crazy stuff" sub-faction of the Eldar again.

In 7th, when the rules dropped, we had:

-Bikers with single use exploding plasma bolas that could drop one big once per game kaboom. This got changed in 8th to a weapon with the Grenade type, meaning that if you built your models with a unit full of bolas well...WHOOOOPS, those don't do anything anymore lol.

-All three harlequin weapons with a fun, unique gimmick, as well as simple blades if you didn't want that. Now they're just three different flavors of stat-swap, and not a particularly meaningful one, meaning one weapon option is always 100% going to be the best, AKA the "Grey Knights Wargear Problem."

-A special pistol that wounded vs leadership. now we have a pistol that's S4 AP-2 Dd3, or, for one point LESS, one point LESS you can have S8 AP-4 Dd6 Melta. Hmm. HMMM. WHICH SHALL I PICK.

-A psychic power that allowed you to roll vs your opponent's leadership and potentially kill powerful characters by continuing to beat them by lowering their leadership with other powers and abilities. It was very strategic and fun! Now it's just a straight roll-off, totally random no strategy at all. I guess that power would be too OP in 8th? Well no. GSC get that old power, exactly the same.

-Another psychic power that actually put a limit on the range of opponents' weaponry, allowing us to play a risk/reward game where our army anted to get close, but we could protect easily against attacks at long range. Now it...gives a -1 to hit. So it's just always good. Great.

-A gun that made light infantry fething bonesplode into a small blast, then when they failed their morale test you got to move your opponent's units however you liked. That was awesome! Now, it deals D3 mortal wounds and gives -2 to leadership. No more using the death jester to move enemy models around tactically, now he just...does damage. But not enough damage to justify his price tag, just some damage. He's a gakky 60-point shuriken cannon who will never ever ever ever ever kill a character with his 24" range 'sniper' weapon.

Harlequins went from "zany madcap antics that are tricky to pull off but gave you tons of fun tactical play" to "I dunno just take 5 fusion pistols and fly around in an open topped transport."


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/10 19:26:51


Post by: Amishprn86


 Jidmah wrote:
Primaris are movie marines. Hard to kill, vehicles are rare and they solve all problems with bolters.



Your joking right? Have you ever looked at the rules? Strength 6, Toughness 6, 5 attacks base, 3+/4++/5+++, Every is buffed to the extreme on 300pt guys, their Auto cannons are Str 8, Heavy Bolters are Str 7, Missile Launcher are Super-Krak missiles that are Str 10, and everything is 12" longer range, If i remember the Bolters are 36" Str 2, with good ap. They are basically playing with 8 Gmans lol


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/10 20:44:50


Post by: psipso


Karol wrote:

Strikes also have innate deep strike baked into their cost.

yes on turn two. And for each point in strikes you need something of same cost on the board. So you better have the side of the table with the good cover and a slow army as opponent, because if they swarm objectives turn one, you maybe deep striking in to your own deployment. But you are right that the cost of deep strike is build in to GK models each one of them, and you can max deep strike half the army. Which means the other half is paying for something they can never use.


Have you tried a battle against a heavy drop pod list with the new SM rules? You gonna enjoy it. I tried the last weekend. Is incredible how much battlefield can deny a couple of drop pods with this ridiculous broken footprint and some scouts. At turn one. This first turn deep strike heavily counter us. Specially in an army that wants as many units in deep strike as possible to make for it's highly-costed troops. Hell, is not possible to GI or shunt in turn 1 because almost all the battlefield been denied at turn 1 without been able to do anything.

I conceded at turn 2. There was nothing that i could have done. After the match I talked with the guy and I told him that I haven't enjoyed the game. He agreed as it wasn't challenging for him. Is not even fun to play against GK. Next time we gonna try to home brew some fixes from the GK or nerf the drop pods in order to make that the doors don't count as part of the model and can only use one in turn 1. At the end if you play with nice people is easy to agree and try rules that makes the game more enjoyable for both sides.

Otherwise I can always fall back to GMNDK spam again. And this brings me to what i really miss for the faction that I use to play. GK is highly anti-fuff . There are literally only 8 GM in the whole galaxy and almost never they meet together. Is even more seldom for them to go to battle and they send instead a brother captain. To me field more than GM is really difficult to justify fluff wise.

Also according to the lore the most common war gear for a GK when they go to a proper battle is a terminator armour. They only bring power armour when they have to do a swift attack or a casual fight meanwhile accompanying a inquisitor, usually in small numbers, like kill team size fights. But what is the only viable troop choice? power armour GK. Terminator armour GK are not viable. And at the end when O see a GK army that is just 3 GMNDK and a spam of power armour GK like if it was a big blob of cultists I feel that something is wrong in the rules to force a GK player to bring such an army.

Another point that I feel disappointed fluff wise is the lack of psychic power might. GK psychic feels lack luster fluff wise specially when you have already read some black library novels. On the novel of the gift of the emperor, a single GK squad was able to stop with they mind the blows of a powerful daemon weapon wielded by a prim-arch demon lord. Each squad member communicate with each other without talking by pshycic telepathy. They are able to coordinate each other in a degree that none other faction can. They are literally the most powerful pshycics of the whole mankind besides of the big E and malcador of the sigilite. And then when it comes to game play they only got a lack luster psychic table and a laughable baby smite. I wouldn't expect them to be as powerful in melee as for instance space wolfs, also i wouldn't expect the nemesis weapons to be that powerful against non daemonic targets. But I would expect that a single squad of GK to be more dangerous in the pshycic phase than a brood of zoanthropes.

When i play I'm the kind of person who like to spend the time to write the story from the battle that I'm gonna play, hell even astrophatic transcriptions, and send it though email to the one that I'm playing with so when we are laying the battle we enjoy it more. However with the current GK rules i feel that to do this is really complicated and many times I ask for tweaking the rules in the codex just to meet a plausible story inside the 40k lore (for instance make that the datasheet of GMNDK counts as a brother captain in NDK... sigh... is the next level of the "model counts as"...). So basically what i miss the most from my army is to be able to tell stories with the current rules written in the codex.


What's missing from your faction? @ 2019/09/10 21:08:41


Post by: Karol


Have you tried a battle against a heavy drop pod list with the new SM rules?

was my first game after coming back from working all summer. Didn't know pods could drop turn 1 and what doctrines are. I got tabled in a single turn, before getting my own turn. In a way it was an interesting expiriance. 1 hour to the store, 14min deployment, wiped out in 10min, then an hour to go back home.

I wonder if it would be more interesting if GW removes strikes and termintor from the game. Replaced them with interceptors and paladins as GK troops. At least those two are highly different, and they could personalised stratagems for them.