After a few conversations, I put on the ol' thinking cap (read: downed an energy drink cocktail and ate a mountain of pancakes) and considered something a little important for the future of GW's release schedule.
It is imperative that Psychic Awakening is a success. At the very least we know there are going to be 4 books, coupled with models here and there depending on the nature of the campaign, alongside all of the other things GW intends to release over the next year for 40k.
If the first book is 'meh' (like Vigilus 1 was), that is going to set the tone for the rest of the Psychic Awakening. Through their community site and teaser videos they are painting a dire picture:
A. This event is bigger than Cadia falling.
B. This event is bigger than the Horus Heresy.
C. This event is bigger than the Fall of the Eldar.
And yet the consensus from those I've talked to is... that somehow, all of this hype will lead to some fluff in a book, a few detachments, a couple new models, and little else. Maybe we'll get a primarch, maybe a few characters will die off, but at the end of the day all that'll mean is more complaints from salty players (they killed off X! I want my own primarch, but instead they gave us Y!).
If GW does exactly that, gives us a series of books like Vigilus 1 (in which, by the way, several space marine formations are already pointless), then the entire Psychic Awakening campaign will be a wash, forgettable, and the community trust for GW's hype will be at an all time low.
Under such an event, you can expect even GW managers to struggle to drum up hype for any future campaign books and for the 40k story as a whole to simply... stagnate, kind of like before 8th edition, when we were always on the cusp of the 13th black crusade but not quite there yet.
On the flip side, if GW does make some big changes, brings us more than we're expecting, shakes up the lore in interesting and daring ways, then we might be headed into a golden age of GW lore. They've promised to wrap up plot points, to resolve certain conflicts, to fill some holes and reveal some secrets. The feeling, though, is that the biggest secret we might get revealed might be, "The Emperor's hair was actually dark brown, not black." Let's hope we get more than that.
Anyone else feeling a bit... pessimistic about this Psychic Awakening stuff? That it's not going to be all they've hyped, not even close?
I guess it all depends on what you're looking for. I get use out of the Vigilus books and like both of them. I expect I will like the new PA books and don't need a catastrophic event to occur to further than enjoyment. I also don't think GW are pushing it to the levels you describe in the OP.
This post is IMHO evidance that the useal suspects are prepared to whine over PA. claiming "faction X didn't get eneugh" I mean let's assume PA is designed to operate over a year, and the stuff previewed is it. 4 new kits, 1 "unit kit" and 1 character kit. for elder and dark eldar each, assuming GW does this for every faction in the game in a years time that's a giant release. with 22 armies in the game. that's 44 new units. that kinda release would be massive indeed. but you know damn well we'd get complaints from the useal suspects about not getting eneugh, with harping about how aweful GW was for putting out a Grimdarius mini instead of "another xenos mini"
BrianDavion wrote: This post is IMHO evidance that the useal suspects are prepared to whine over PA. claiming "faction X didn't get eneugh" I mean let's assume PA is designed to operate over a year, and the stuff previewed is it. 4 new kits, 1 "unit kit" and 1 character kit. for elder and dark eldar each, assuming GW does this for every faction in the game in a years time that's a giant release. with 22 armies in the game. that's 44 new units. that kinda release would be massive indeed. but you know damn well we'd get complaints from the useal suspects about not getting eneugh, with harping about how aweful GW was for putting out a Grimdarius mini instead of "another xenos mini"
22 armies?
Space mehrines
Imperial peopel
elves
edgy elves
green dudes
robot people
metachaser knights
fishppl
edgy spesh mahrines
t800's
Anyone else feeling a bit... pessimistic about this Psychic Awakening stuff? That it's not going to be all they've hyped, not even close?
Not pessimistic, just apathetic.
I mean, I don't really care what they do lore wise. I stopped caring long ago. Sometime during 4th I think. So it's all about cool models & the rules to field them for me.
BrianDavion wrote: This post is IMHO evidance that the useal suspects are prepared to whine over PA. claiming "faction X didn't get eneugh" I mean let's assume PA is designed to operate over a year, and the stuff previewed is it. 4 new kits, 1 "unit kit" and 1 character kit. for elder and dark eldar each, assuming GW does this for every faction in the game in a years time that's a giant release. with 22 armies in the game. that's 44 new units. that kinda release would be massive indeed. but you know damn well we'd get complaints from the useal suspects about not getting eneugh, with harping about how aweful GW was for putting out a Grimdarius mini instead of "another xenos mini"
22 armies?
Space mehrines
Imperial peopel
elves
edgy elves
green dudes
robot people
metachaser knights
fishppl
edgy spesh mahrines
t800's
what other ones have I missed?
Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Grey Knights, Custodes, Death watchm death Guard, 1 thouand sons. Chaos Knights,
BrianDavion wrote: This post is IMHO evidance that the useal suspects are prepared to whine over PA. claiming "faction X didn't get eneugh" I mean let's assume PA is designed to operate over a year, and the stuff previewed is it. 4 new kits, 1 "unit kit" and 1 character kit. for elder and dark eldar each, assuming GW does this for every faction in the game in a years time that's a giant release. with 22 armies in the game. that's 44 new units. that kinda release would be massive indeed. but you know damn well we'd get complaints from the useal suspects about not getting eneugh, with harping about how aweful GW was for putting out a Grimdarius mini instead of "another xenos mini"
Classic Marine player response.
The 'usual suspects' are any players that aren't using Marines, then?
Marines don't need any new units given the release we're currently in the middle of , but no doubt they'll get at least new characters. GW can't keep their hands off their poster boys for too long.
Meanwhile you believe that craft world players should be happy with 30 year old miniatures that look like dog vomit because they're getting one unit and one special character updated. Unbelievable.
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Eonfuzz wrote: Pessimistic? Sure.
There's been more posts about mehreen supplements than the "Biggest thing yet" aka, psychic awakening.
And frankly it's a damned shame.
This is also my take. Add that nothing changed from the last 'lore shattering event' in Vigilus and its not hard to see why such pessimism exists.
BrianDavion wrote: This post is IMHO evidance that the useal suspects are prepared to whine over PA. claiming "faction X didn't get eneugh" I mean let's assume PA is designed to operate over a year, and the stuff previewed is it. 4 new kits, 1 "unit kit" and 1 character kit. for elder and dark eldar each, assuming GW does this for every faction in the game in a years time that's a giant release. with 22 armies in the game. that's 44 new units. that kinda release would be massive indeed. but you know damn well we'd get complaints from the useal suspects about not getting eneugh, with harping about how aweful GW was for putting out a Grimdarius mini instead of "another xenos mini"
But it is 44 units only if you play every army, plus with 22 armies, and GW probably alternating stuff and not puting out things for christmans we are looking at some faction getting their stuff in more then 2 years time. And if their codex also happen to come in 2 years time, then the faction better have real good rules, because 2 years of playing vs other people update stuff, may not be very fun to do.
BrianDavion wrote: This post is IMHO evidance that the useal suspects are prepared to whine over PA. claiming "faction X didn't get eneugh" I mean let's assume PA is designed to operate over a year, and the stuff previewed is it. 4 new kits, 1 "unit kit" and 1 character kit. for elder and dark eldar each, assuming GW does this for every faction in the game in a years time that's a giant release. with 22 armies in the game. that's 44 new units. that kinda release would be massive indeed. but you know damn well we'd get complaints from the useal suspects about not getting eneugh, with harping about how aweful GW was for putting out a Grimdarius mini instead of "another xenos mini"
Classic Marine player response.
The 'usual suspects' are any players that aren't using Marines, then?
Marines don't need any new units given the release we're currently in the middle of , but no doubt they'll get at least new characters. GW can't keep their hands off their poster boys for too long.
Meanwhile you believe that craft world players should be happy with 30 year old miniatures that look like dog vomit because they're getting one unit and one special character updated. Unbelievable.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Eonfuzz wrote: Pessimistic? Sure.
There's been more posts about mehreen supplements than the "Biggest thing yet" aka, psychic awakening.
And frankly it's a damned shame.
This is also my take. Add that nothing changed from the last 'lore shattering event' in Vigilus and its not hard to see why such pessimism exists.
I don't think anyone said Eldar should be content with the ancient sculpts, simply they should be thankful to have new ones and that every faction might get something new hopefully. Yes there are plenty of marine factions, which means more marine models, but view them as a mechanism for the release of other factiosn stuff. I.E. you can have a rumoured black templar v orks box with new stuff for both.
Under such an event, you can expect even GW managers to struggle to drum up hype for any future campaign books and for the 40k story as a whole to simply... stagnate, kind of like before 8th edition, when we were always on the cusp of the 13th black crusade but not quite there yet.
Exactly which 13th black Crusade would you like to discuss
13.0 Failed
13.1 It's the same crusade honest
13.2 what are you talking about this is the 13 black crusade no other 13 black crusade has happend
13.3 just shut it Failbadon wins because we say so.
GW have tried this sort of thing before they were just honest about letting events drive the story and it went the opposite direction than they planned and rather than change masses of lore they just did the same story points over again or retconned the results.
drbored wrote: After a few conversations, I put on the ol' thinking cap (read: downed an energy drink cocktail and ate a mountain of pancakes) and considered something a little important for the future of GW's release schedule.
It is imperative that Psychic Awakening is a success. At the very least we know there are going to be 4 books, coupled with models here and there depending on the nature of the campaign, alongside all of the other things GW intends to release over the next year for 40k.
If the first book is 'meh' (like Vigilus 1 was), that is going to set the tone for the rest of the Psychic Awakening. Through their community site and teaser videos they are painting a dire picture:
A. This event is bigger than Cadia falling.
B. This event is bigger than the Horus Heresy.
C. This event is bigger than the Fall of the Eldar.
And yet the consensus from those I've talked to is... that somehow, all of this hype will lead to some fluff in a book, a few detachments, a couple new models, and little else. Maybe we'll get a primarch, maybe a few characters will die off, but at the end of the day all that'll mean is more complaints from salty players (they killed off X! I want my own primarch, but instead they gave us Y!).
If GW does exactly that, gives us a series of books like Vigilus 1 (in which, by the way, several space marine formations are already pointless), then the entire Psychic Awakening campaign will be a wash, forgettable, and the community trust for GW's hype will be at an all time low.
Under such an event, you can expect even GW managers to struggle to drum up hype for any future campaign books and for the 40k story as a whole to simply... stagnate, kind of like before 8th edition, when we were always on the cusp of the 13th black crusade but not quite there yet.
On the flip side, if GW does make some big changes, brings us more than we're expecting, shakes up the lore in interesting and daring ways, then we might be headed into a golden age of GW lore. They've promised to wrap up plot points, to resolve certain conflicts, to fill some holes and reveal some secrets. The feeling, though, is that the biggest secret we might get revealed might be, "The Emperor's hair was actually dark brown, not black." Let's hope we get more than that.
Let's hope we don't get more than that. Nothing ruins a good story better than removing mystery and over-explaining. Part of being engaged with a movie, tv series, book, or game, is wondering about the things the powers that be haven't told you.
Anyone else feeling a bit... pessimistic about this Psychic Awakening stuff? That it's not going to be all they've hyped, not even close?
It's GW. Of course this is over-hyped, poised to underwhelm most. It will probably be a success despite that, too. Even if it were a big shakeup, it'd be like the launch of AOS. An effectively new setting, and flanderized replacements for existing armies.
I have no idea why GW is slow-dripping the Psychic Awakening stuff. They haven't even shown a single photo of the Incubi as a unit, just the Klaivex by himself as if he's some kind of bigshot important character. Showing Banshees + Jain Zar one week and Incubi + Drazhar another would have been a far more impressive reveal.
I would also doubt very much every army gets an equal amount of kits. They're not going to give a unique 5-man unit box for each variety of Marine, or for some of the more niche armies like Custodes. To say nothing of how that'd work with Knights.
Eonfuzz wrote: Pessimistic? Sure.
There's been more posts about mehreen supplements than the "Biggest thing yet" aka, psychic awakening.
And frankly it's a damned shame.
Just telling us it's "the biggest thing yet" is not enough for hype I'm afraid. It needs some actual meat to it. Juicy details about how it will actually affect the game.
In this way it makes total sense that there's more hype for Marine supplements right now - we know this are huge for Marine players, who make up the biggest fraction of the player base.
By contrast all we have about Psychic Awakening is some Eldar sculpts (which is cool, don't get me wrong, but nothing earth shattering) and a promise that it's the biggest thing yet.
They need to deliver on that promise to some extent before you can expect anyone to really care.
drbored wrote: They've threatened to wrap up plot points, to resolve certain conflicts, to fill some holes and reveal some secrets.
Fixed that for you.
Agamemnon2 wrote: I have no idea why GW is slow-dripping the Psychic Awakening stuff. They haven't even shown a single photo of the Incubi as a unit, just the Klaivex by himself as if he's some kind of bigshot important character. Showing Banshees + Jain Zar one week and Incubi + Drazhar another would have been a far more impressive reveal.
As I've said before, the reason for the slow burn is because there's so little content.
They had to spread the models out over 5 weeks (including the initial announcement) because there were so few of them to preview. Wow, so Craftworlders get 2 of their 30 ancient kits updated, and Dark Eldar (the army that has had their codex repeatedly gutted) gets 0 of their units back and instead only gets updated models for 1 old special character and one unit that already had perfectly serviceable models. And even then, all they did was stick a bunch of tassels on everything. And then they gave the Klaivex a soulstone necklace and a piece of scenery to stand on and called it 'Drazhar'. Who cares if it's completely antithetical to his fluff, we've got more marines to make!
At this point I would be shocked if Psychic Awakening was anything but a total letdown.
Agamemnon2 wrote: I have no idea why GW is slow-dripping the Psychic Awakening stuff. They haven't even shown a single photo of the Incubi as a unit, just the Klaivex by himself as if he's some kind of bigshot important character. Showing Banshees + Jain Zar one week and Incubi + Drazhar another would have been a far more impressive reveal..
Would 2 weeks of reveals and 2 weeks of nothing been more impressive then?
Well I suspect the psychich phase may be expanded a bit- possibly with persistent effects, but possibly just more psychic disciplines or strategems that affect the phase; perhaps a combination of all three. And that's a fairly decent change.
I don't think every army will get models. Many will, but some are likely to just get rules. Some factions will get both.
If the Inquisition made a serious return, that would be another game changer.
Finally, while the Eldar/ DE release was resculpts of existing units, some factions are likely to get something new- which could also be a game changer.
The other thing is that a "big event" is kind of subjective. It might help to define what we mean by big event so that we're all talking about the same thing. Because someone earlier mentioned that they thought another primarch waking up wouldn't be that big of a deal.
But I personally believe that would be HUGE! Guilliman would no longer be THE voice of command; he would merely be A voice of command. It would also tell us for sure that there could be additional primarchs coming.
The Primaris/Old Marine divide is the next Horus Heresy waiting in the wings. Of a primarch who doesn't like primaris wakes up, Guilliman could be in trouble, especially if the new Primarch has a bit of Psyker going on.
Agamemnon2 wrote: I have no idea why GW is slow-dripping the Psychic Awakening stuff. They haven't even shown a single photo of the Incubi as a unit, just the Klaivex by himself as if he's some kind of bigshot important character. Showing Banshees + Jain Zar one week and Incubi + Drazhar another would have been a far more impressive reveal..
Would 2 weeks of reveals and 2 weeks of nothing been more impressive then?
Two meatier content drops and 2 weeks of no PsA related announcements on Warhammer-Community would have been preferable, yes. Especially when the Space Marine release cycle still hasn't concluded. Also, this is a personal preference, but I'm peeved about the lack of specificity. We don't know what it is that's being "Awakened", or why the repercussions of the event are supposed to be such a big deal. We've gotten snippets of Eldar prophecy related to the Ynnari, but precious little concrete plot points.
I think Psychic Awakening started being teased too early, and has therefore been dilute too much, at least so far.
BrianDavion wrote: This post is IMHO evidance that the useal suspects are prepared to whine over PA. claiming "faction X didn't get eneugh" I mean let's assume PA is designed to operate over a year, and the stuff previewed is it. 4 new kits, 1 "unit kit" and 1 character kit. for elder and dark eldar each, assuming GW does this for every faction in the game in a years time that's a giant release. with 22 armies in the game. that's 44 new units. that kinda release would be massive indeed. but you know damn well we'd get complaints from the useal suspects about not getting eneugh, with harping about how aweful GW was for putting out a Grimdarius mini instead of "another xenos mini"
22 armies?
Space mehrines
Imperial peopel
elves
edgy elves
green dudes
robot people
metachaser knights
fishppl
edgy spesh mahrines
t800's
what other ones have I missed?
Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Grey Knights, Custodes, Death watchm death Guard, 1 thouand sons. Chaos Knights,
I already mentioned Mehreens, Edgy mahreens and metachaser knights.
Unless you mean to imply they are different factions, in which case you would be wrong.
Not Online!!! wrote: The Eldar range like the chaos range was due for an update years ago. Why should they be thankfull?
This post I think sums up entitlement perfectly.
Oh I'm sorry, of course we should be thankful that we have the oldest and worst model range in the game.
You should be thankful that you're getting new models. You aren't owed anything by GW. That Eldar are getting new models is a good thing. We're all happy for you, but the attitude that you shouldn't be thankful is just petty.
The attitude that a customer should be thankful to a corporation for being presented a new product to buy is a bizarre and offputting one. Do you praise Burger King every time there's a new seasonal Whopper? Do you give thanks to your lord and savior Chevrolet for the new options package for this year's Camaro?
If you want to buy the new Eldar, fine. But the company's already taking your money so at least keep your dignity instead of becoming their fawning sycophant.
drbored wrote: That it's not going to be all they've hyped, not even close?
Of course it will be the case that it is over-hyped, it's marketing, what are the realistic options?
Since it is unknown (and likely undiscoverable in any realistic time frame or deterministic sense) just what, exactly, is the optimal hype level, the marketers are left with two options. Go with little to no hype, or go over the top with absurd hype. Under-hyping likely "costs" one more sales though, since no one is likely to buy something they don't know exists (or simply have been given no reason to care). Over-hype generates some feel bads in cases where people feel they were over-promised, but it likely costs one less sales in the short and long run though, since feelings of under-delivery are still an awareness of the product and not always reason to not purchase.
What can one do, as a consumer, then? Apply your own "filter" to any marketing hype you encounter, so as to not find yourself caught up in the "advertising hyper-reality" that is presented. Once you recognize the (generally) clear clarion calls of hyper-reality in marketing, engage your inner skeptic and temper your expectations on the knowledge that marketing is marketing and is not, specifically, reality in-itself.
Not Online!!! wrote: The Eldar range like the chaos range was due for an update years ago. Why should they be thankfull?
This post I think sums up entitlement perfectly.
Oh I'm sorry, of course we should be thankful that we have the oldest and worst model range in the game.
You should be thankful that you're getting new models. You aren't owed anything by GW. That Eldar are getting new models is a good thing. We're all happy for you, but the attitude that you shouldn't be thankful is just petty.
Why? Its the customer's money, GW isn't giving them the models for free. The customer doesn't owe GW anything either, in fact I dare say GW should be thanking their customers for keeping them in business for 30 years. I don't see why one should not be allowed to criticize a company for not updating several ranges when they are instead pooling resources into one or two armies. Granted, Primaris did need to be expanded upon, but there are xenos armies still waiting for their finecasts to be released in plastic, and that should have been the priority.
Agamemnon2 wrote: The attitude that a customer should be thankful to a corporation for being presented a new product to buy is a bizarre and offputting one. Do you praise Burger King every time there's a new seasonal Whopper? Do you give thanks to your lord and savior Chevrolet for the new options package for this year's Camaro?
If you want to buy the new Eldar, fine. But the company's already taking your money so at least keep your dignity instead of becoming their fawning sycophant.
This.
Sentineil, thankfull is someone that got a Gift.
You should be thankful that you're getting new models. You aren't owed anything by GW. That Eldar are getting new models is a good thing. We're all happy for you, but the attitude that you shouldn't be thankful is just petty.
I don't know much about being a big company, but don't even the really large ones kind of have to make products that satisfie they customers, or at least function? I mean VW got in to trouble again over producing stuff that does not work.
Do you give thanks to your lord and savior Chevrolet for the new options package for this year's Camaro?
well why not? it is not like there is any law that forces them to make new ones. The problems start, when they make a engine upgrade kit and blows the engine you have in your car, or makes it teat itself apart if you actualy drive it. Of course eldar players should be thankful that they are getting new models, but the idea that because of a single new box and a single new HQ, they are suddenly should be happy for another 20+years is probably false. But I maybe wrong, have zero idea how the western market works. For example here big companies like P&G officialy stated that people in my part of the world should be happy that they are being sold any products at all, and the fact that the stuff in our versions of a washing detergent or chocolate is different from what is sold in germany, should not bother us the customers. Maybe GW thinks like that too. only people that work for GW know for sure.
You should be thankful that you're getting new models. You aren't owed anything by GW. That Eldar are getting new models is a good thing. We're all happy for you, but the attitude that you shouldn't be thankful is just petty.
And GW isnt owed anything by its customers. If they put out a good product that I want, support it and do right by me? Yeah I'll give them a tip of the hat in addition to my money. Doesnt for a second mean I'm going to not call them out when they do something stupid.
The ideal is a symbiotic relationship, not a cult. You appear to want the latter.
The problems start, when they make a engine upgrade kit and blows the engine you have in your car, or makes it teat itself apart if you actualy drive it.
And then no one buys their defective product and they get sued into oblivion. That's the Free Market.
Well VW did it oopsies like that over the last few years, and they are still alive. But then again we enter the world of politics, party funding, selling your stuff to China no matter what or americans enter the market, and people hoping from politics to banks, to goverment and back to private sector. Kind of donkey-cave thing to do to put your possible employer in to trouble, just because he is breaking the law.
Now GW is no BP, but I don't think the goverment would let them be hurt too much in court.
Comparing a primarily artistic product (a wargame miniature) to a functional one (a car) is misguided at best. GW releasing a model that's got crap rules or looks stupid does not open them to liability the same way as VW putting out a total lemon does.
Their miniatures cannot be unfit for purpose (except in the case of miscasts or missing parts) as they have no purpose outside of looking nice, which is a conveniently subjective matter.
Cars, on the other hand, have very clear and objective criteria that can render them unfit for purpose.
I think it's just too early to tell how this thing is going to pan out.
As a Necrons player, I'm very underwhelmed. My takeaway so far is that we'll get a series of campaign books highlighting 2+ armies. If a given campaign book doesn't feature new Necrons rules or units, I either have to forego the story, or buy rules for some other armies to read the new fluff. I actively don't want to spend the inevitable $40-50 to just read the story bits.
Given how many factions there are currently, I'm expecting this to be a 1-2 year release cycle with maybe 8+ or so campaign books. I do recognize that there are five flavors of Adeptes Astartes who could potentially all use a generic new Primaris unit. So charitably, we'll call the below list 23 factions instead of 27. At 2-3 factions per campaign book, that's a lot of books.
1. Adepta Sororitas
2. Adeptes Custodes
3. Adeptes Mechanicus
4. Astra Militarum
5. Blood Angels
6. Dark Angels
7. Deathwatch
8. Grey Knights
9. Imperial Knights
10. Inquisition
11. Officio Assassinorum
12. Sisters of Silence
13. Space Marines
14. Space Wolves
15. Chaos Daemons
16. Chaos Knights
17. Chaos Space Marines
18. Death Guard
19. Thousand Sons
20. Craftworld Aeldari
21. Drukhari
22. Genestealer Cults
23. Harlequins
24. Necrons
25. T'au Empire
26. Tyranids
27. Ynnari
The problems start, when they make a engine upgrade kit and blows the engine you have in your car, or makes it teat itself apart if you actualy drive it.
And then no one buys their defective product and they get sued into oblivion. That's the Free Market.
With alternative options, GW however has cornered their market preety well. Ergo they are an oligopol.
The currently advertised releases have already covered 3 factions, because ynnari can take stuff from other Eldar armies.
I imagine the same kind of thing would happen to all the others.
You could cover every imperial army with a single sharable unit -they already share most of their stuff. And it could also appear in chaos armies too...
The only armies that would need unique units are:
Daemons
Tyranids
Necrons
Orks
Maybe tau (but they could still use an imperial unit)
You could cover every imperial army with a single sharable unit -they already share most of their stuff. And it could also appear in chaos armies too...
BrianDavion wrote: This post is IMHO evidance that the useal suspects are prepared to whine over PA. claiming "faction X didn't get eneugh" I mean let's assume PA is designed to operate over a year, and the stuff previewed is it. 4 new kits, 1 "unit kit" and 1 character kit. for elder and dark eldar each, assuming GW does this for every faction in the game in a years time that's a giant release. with 22 armies in the game. that's 44 new units. that kinda release would be massive indeed. but you know damn well we'd get complaints from the useal suspects about not getting eneugh, with harping about how aweful GW was for putting out a Grimdarius mini instead of "another xenos mini"
It could be epic and grand, it remains to be seen just how much. Some people getting ready to complain in advance is ridiculous and shows just how toxic some "hobbyists" are.
If this ends in the resurrection of the Emperor, complete with a model for him, then it will exceed expectations.
From the way it has been described it's not unusual to expect Russ or the Lion, or someone like that. It's going to be fun, either way!
Ishagu wrote: It could be epic and grand, it remains to be seen just how much. Some people getting ready to complain in advance is ridiculous and shows just how toxic some "hobbyists" are.
If this ends in the resurrection of the Emperor, complete with a model for him, then it will exceed expectations.
From the way it has been described it's not unusual to expect Russ or the Lion, or someone like that. It's going to be fun, either way!
Cant we please NOT have a reborn emperor in 40k? I mean, least not in real space. It's the f'ing emperor for gods sake, either he'll be overwhelming powerful and insta table everything or be a hilarious let down and gets blown up by 90 guardsmen FRFSRF'ing top of turn 2.
I'd love to see an expansion on the Eldar side, def more pure Chaos Daemons ( Damn it GW, give me Khorne ogryn size infantry which throw colossal axes!) and Tyranids to omnom psykers and all the tasty biomass and maybe focus down the Eldar due to the Ynnari concentrating all the psykers in one place and offering a buffet.
Ishagu wrote: It could be epic and grand, it remains to be seen just how much. Some people getting ready to complain in advance is ridiculous and shows just how toxic some "hobbyists" are.
If this ends in the resurrection of the Emperor, complete with a model for him, then it will exceed expectations.
From the way it has been described it's not unusual to expect Russ or the Lion, or someone like that. It's going to be fun, either way!
Cant we please NOT have a reborn emperor in 40k? I mean, least not in real space. It's the f'ing emperor for gods sake, either he'll be overwhelming powerful and insta table everything or be a hilarious let down and gets blown up by 90 guardsmen FRFSRF'ing top of turn 2.
I'd love to see an expansion on the Eldar side, def more pure Chaos Daemons ( Damn it GW, give me Khorne ogryn size infantry which throw colossal axes!) and Tyranids to omnom psykers and all the tasty biomass and maybe focus down the Eldar due to the Ynnari concentrating all the psykers in one place and offering a buffet.
A lore return of the Emperor doesn't mean he'll get a model.
drbored wrote: After a few conversations, I put on the ol' thinking cap (read: downed an energy drink cocktail and ate a mountain of pancakes) and considered something a little important for the future of GW's release schedule.
It is imperative that Psychic Awakening is a success. At the very least we know there are going to be 4 books, coupled with models here and there depending on the nature of the campaign, alongside all of the other things GW intends to release over the next year for 40k.
If the first book is 'meh' (like Vigilus 1 was), that is going to set the tone for the rest of the Psychic Awakening. Through their community site and teaser videos they are painting a dire picture:
A. This event is bigger than Cadia falling. B. This event is bigger than the Horus Heresy. C. This event is bigger than the Fall of the Eldar.
And yet the consensus from those I've talked to is... that somehow, all of this hype will lead to some fluff in a book, a few detachments, a couple new models, and little else. Maybe we'll get a primarch, maybe a few characters will die off, but at the end of the day all that'll mean is more complaints from salty players (they killed off X! I want my own primarch, but instead they gave us Y!).
If GW does exactly that, gives us a series of books like Vigilus 1 (in which, by the way, several space marine formations are already pointless), then the entire Psychic Awakening campaign will be a wash, forgettable, and the community trust for GW's hype will be at an all time low.
Under such an event, you can expect even GW managers to struggle to drum up hype for any future campaign books and for the 40k story as a whole to simply... stagnate, kind of like before 8th edition, when we were always on the cusp of the 13th black crusade but not quite there yet.
On the flip side, if GW does make some big changes, brings us more than we're expecting, shakes up the lore in interesting and daring ways, then we might be headed into a golden age of GW lore. They've promised to wrap up plot points, to resolve certain conflicts, to fill some holes and reveal some secrets. The feeling, though, is that the biggest secret we might get revealed might be, "The Emperor's hair was actually dark brown, not black." Let's hope we get more than that.
Anyone else feeling a bit... pessimistic about this Psychic Awakening stuff? That it's not going to be all they've hyped, not even close?
PA is nothing more than a ploy to release new models in plastic and update the line. If you're hoping for serious rules and new awesome things, prepare to be disappointed..
Marines will get a literal boatload of new stuff, as will chaos and eldar. As usual Orks and Tyranids will get nothing and like it.
Elfric wrote: Cars can be a potential danger public safety. A GW model with broken rules, despite the butthurt, is not dangerous to public safety.
.
You obviously are not familiar with the Dreadsock, nor have handled Tyranid models.
On a more serious note, this is just another case of GW overhype for an otherwise mediocre model and rulebook release. Looks like it is the start of the drip of Eldar model rereleases - hopefully their attempt at phasing out their remaining finecast line (for all factions). I’m watching the release with interest, but I’m not letting myself be drawn into the hype.
And I seriously hope we won’t be seeing more Primarchs and such for this - though a new Eldar Avatar would be nice. Maybe Necrons will get some love too, in the form of some new units - perhaps even the return of pariahs.
Are marine players, who GW has a policy that every time a Xenos or chaos faction gets a single new model, a mandatory marine release of 5 new kits, 3 new HQ, optional vehicle release, and new supplement as well as optional storyline release with added stratagems, formations, relics and rules is released, really telling people to be thankful for their one or two new models and a handful of rules they get every 2-5 years? Ha. And they wonder why we love when their boys in blue are the absolute worst in the game.
Elfric wrote: Cars can be a potential danger public safety. A GW model with broken rules, despite the butthurt, is not dangerous to public safety.
.
You obviously are not familiar with the Dreadsock, nor have handled Tyranid models.
On a more serious note, this is just another case of GW overhype for an otherwise mediocre model and rulebook release. Looks like it is the start of the drip of Eldar model rereleases - hopefully their attempt at phasing out their remaining finecast line (for all factions). I’m watching the release with interest, but I’m not letting myself be drawn into the hype.
And I seriously hope we won’t be seeing more Primarchs and such for this - though a new Eldar Avatar would be nice. Maybe Necrons will get some love too, in the form of some new units - perhaps even the return of pariahs.
Quite possibly. It seems that no model comes out with either A) a codex or B) a campaign. If they can't make enough for a whole codex then campaign it is.
I think this is why CSM 1.01 was so hacky - it straddled the line a little too much and they messed it up rushing things out.
GW's hype revolves more around fluff movements over models/rules even if 'everyone gets something'.
Agamemnon2 wrote: The attitude that a customer should be thankful to a corporation for being presented a new product to buy is a bizarre and offputting one. Do you praise Burger King every time there's a new seasonal Whopper? Do you give thanks to your lord and savior Chevrolet for the new options package for this year's Camaro?
If you want to buy the new Eldar, fine. But the company's already taking your money so at least keep your dignity instead of becoming their fawning sycophant.
Do you like the hobby? Are you not happy when your army gets new releases?
Burger King is an awesome example to use too. They always get massive backlash every time they release a new burger X and it's not Y. Do you get upset every time they release a new seasonal Whopper and it doesn't meet your specific needs?
If you complain endlessly that Burger King haven't released a vegan, gluten free, free range kale burger, and then they release one, would you not be thankful? Is that not how that works? You want a luxury item and someone delivers it? Your response is "About time"?
The attitude that a faceless corporation driven by profits for some reason owes you something is both bizarre and amusing. It's been kind of you to donate to their cause all these years I guess. Me? I like their product, and I'm happy to pay for it because I get value from it. When they release something new that I will enjoy, I'm happy. Thankful even.
It's a shame half the people on this forum seem to have a different hobby to me. I paint and play 40k, while their hobby is getting indignant and upset at a company motivated by profit and growth.
CthululsSpy wrote:Why? Its the customer's money, GW isn't giving them the models for free. The customer doesn't owe GW anything either, in fact I dare say GW should be thanking their customers for keeping them in business for 30 years.
I don't see why one should not be allowed to criticize a company for not updating several ranges when they are instead pooling resources into one or two armies. Granted, Primaris did need to be expanded upon, but there are xenos armies still waiting for their finecasts to be released in plastic, and that should have been the priority.
Can we point out where I said it should be free? No? Can we stop using strawman arguments? Cool.
We don't owe GW anything, absolutely right. GW also doesn't owe us anything either. They offer a product we enjoy and we pay them in return. As much as GW should be thanking us for keeping them in business for 30 years, we should be thanking them for providing us with a hobby and enjoyment for 30 years.
My point of contention is when we ask for something, GW delivers it, and the response is that of petulant children.
But hey, I'm sure I'm just a fanboi, white knight and a sycophant because I actually enjoy the hobby and enjoy new content.
This customer x Corp conversation is edging into off topic.
At the end of the day, I doubt the rest of the Eldar line is going to be updated any time soon. In fact, one of my theories is that "a phoenix will fall" is in reference to them killing off one of the aspect warrior lines and its phoenix lord so they dont have to make a new kit for it.
drbored wrote: This customer x Corp conversation is edging into off topic.
At the end of the day, I doubt the rest of the Eldar line is going to be updated any time soon. In fact, one of my theories is that "a phoenix will fall" is in reference to them killing off one of the aspect warrior lines and its phoenix lord so they dont have to make a new kit for it.
You're right, I apologise.
I'm not sure they're going to kill off an aspect though. I'm still hoping that there's more going on with the story than just Eldar, and that the Phoenix rising will be Fulgrim, which ties into the latest Warhammer Community story about Slaaneshi daemons attacking.
There's also the usual Phoenix rising from the ashes, so the Phoenix that falls could be the same one to rise.
drbored wrote: This customer x Corp conversation is edging into off topic.
At the end of the day, I doubt the rest of the Eldar line is going to be updated any time soon. In fact, one of my theories is that "a phoenix will fall" is in reference to them killing off one of the aspect warrior lines and its phoenix lord so they dont have to make a new kit for it.
That would be a pretty explosive feth you to CWE players.There's no real upside to it for GW compared to just letting that aspect linger in the purgatory of poor QA finecast
Also it's obvious this release is just geared to the Ynarri/Aeldari thing. I didn't expect a ton being just a CWE player
Kriswall wrote: I think it's just too early to tell how this thing is going to pan out.
As a Necrons player, I'm very underwhelmed. My takeaway so far is that we'll get a series of campaign books highlighting 2+ armies. If a given campaign book doesn't feature new Necrons rules or units, I either have to forego the story, or buy rules for some other armies to read the new fluff. I actively don't want to spend the inevitable $40-50 to just read the story bits.
Given how many factions there are currently, I'm expecting this to be a 1-2 year release cycle with maybe 8+ or so campaign books. I do recognize that there are five flavors of Adeptes Astartes who could potentially all use a generic new Primaris unit. So charitably, we'll call the below list 23 factions instead of 27. At 2-3 factions per campaign book, that's a lot of books.
1. Adepta Sororitas
2. Adeptes Custodes
3. Adeptes Mechanicus
4. Astra Militarum
5. Blood Angels
6. Dark Angels
7. Deathwatch
8. Grey Knights
9. Imperial Knights
10. Inquisition
11. Officio Assassinorum
12. Sisters of Silence
13. Space Marines
14. Space Wolves
15. Chaos Daemons
16. Chaos Knights
17. Chaos Space Marines
18. Death Guard
19. Thousand Sons
20. Craftworld Aeldari
21. Drukhari
22. Genestealer Cults
23. Harlequins
24. Necrons
25. T'au Empire
26. Tyranids
27. Ynnari
it's nice to see a xenos player who aknowledges that the various differant space marine forces are in fact differant factions. the idea that they're somehow not is well.. it's just arrogant to dismiss an entire faction
Agamemnon2 wrote: Comparing a primarily artistic product (a wargame miniature) to a functional one (a car) is misguided at best. GW releasing a model that's got crap rules or looks stupid does not open them to liability the same way as VW putting out a total lemon does.
tunning kits or body work for cars, isn't made or done for function unless your ultra rich I think.
Do you like the hobby? Are you not happy when your army gets new releases?
what if your army doesn't get any new stuff, or the stuff you get is something you can make out of a basic trooper box for same cost, only getting 4 extra guys?
The attitude that a faceless corporation driven by profits for some reason owes you something is both bizarre and amusing. It's been kind of you to donate to their cause all these years I guess. Me? I like their product, and I'm happy to pay for it because I get value from it. When they release something new that I will enjoy, I'm happy. Thankful even.
Don't you think it is GW job to produce a working set of rules for their model line to use in the game they design? Or if they don't, then shouldn't their at least put a warrning. For example model companies that make really complicated model kits, put a warrning that this kit is not for new players. Then if GW doesn't make their rule sets to be played, and some armies are done by ineratia, as GW has to make them, because they made them in the past, then maybe they should put a warrning in their codex or at their store, that army X is ment for hobby collectors and painters, and not new players that want to play.
it's nice to see a xenos player who aknowledges that the various differant space marine forces are in fact differant factions. the idea that they're somehow not is well.. it's just arrogant to dismiss an entire faction
Just imagining that we have to sit through *another* year of mehreen releases is almost maddening.
drbored wrote: This customer x Corp conversation is edging into off topic.
At the end of the day, I doubt the rest of the Eldar line is going to be updated any time soon. In fact, one of my theories is that "a phoenix will fall" is in reference to them killing off one of the aspect warrior lines and its phoenix lord so they dont have to make a new kit for it.
This is absolutely my train of thought. I'd also imagine they're pushing to Join Eldar / Dark Eldar together into a single army.
I don't think it really matters if Psychic Awakening works. The books will be expensive, poorly written (Vigilus was...not very well written, really ham-fisted in parts and pretty boring...also the story suffers whenever GW tries to force a dozen factions onto one-planet ).
What it does have to do is sell models, and it will.
1st of all, what hype? Ive seen a trickle of PA stuff drip feeding some overdue models... which clearly is a way of longing out the 2 Eldar kits coming out to look like a releaseand to make it seem more than it actually is..Its obviously not part of some wider release. If it is they are doing a piss poor job of getting that across. Its just a couple of sculpts getting updated. Everything on the community website is spammed about warcry, bloodbowl aos and every other specialist mini game under the sun. It really does not feel like any hype and anything that does come out is really luck lustre in terms of content. It feels like nobody cares.. I know I don't.
Where space marine poster boys were getting huge splats, everyone including their mother was shouting from the rooftop celebrating space marines and their seemingly endless torrent of models and rules being vomited out, the PA related Eldar stuff gets maybe 2 paragraphs and a picture and a "that's all for today folks, come back on Monday to read a paragraph or two about some stuff that's 40k related but not about space marines".
2nd of all its slowly sinking in they are only re-doing banshees and jain zar because driving the story/narrative towards ynari with some BS short story about how eldar randoms decide to join a battle they have no business or skills in fighting and just roll over and die because reasons.. You guys remember that scene from ice age where the dodos just run off a cliff ? yeh that. Not interested.
So yeah. Psychic awakening? More like psychic lame thing..
Argive wrote: 1st of all, what hype? Ive seen a trickle of PA stuff drip feeding some overdue models.. Everything on the community website is spammed about warcry, bloodbowl aos and every other specialist mini game under the sun. It really does not feel like any hype and anything that does come out is really luck lustre in terms of content. It feels like nobody cares.. I know I don't.
Where space marine poster boys were getting huge splats, everyone including their mother was shouting from the rooftop celebrating space marines and their seemingly endless torrent of models and rules being vomited out, the PA related Eldar stuff gets maybe 2 paragraphs and a picture and a "that's all for today folks, come back on Monday to read a paragraph or two about some stuff that's 40k related but not about space marines".
2nd of all its slowly sinking in they are only re-doing banshees and jain zar because driving the story/narrative towards ynari with some BS short story about how eldar randoms decide to join a battle they have no business or skills in fighting and just roll over and die because reasons.. You guys remember that scene from ice age where the dodos just run off a cliff ? yeh that.
So yeah. Psychic awakening? More like psychic lame thing..
Absolutely this. Orktober had the exact same thing with imperium content being advertised and we know how that turned out.
Except... Psychic awakening has had even less articles than "orktober" did.
Karol wrote: Don't you think it is GW job to produce a working set of rules for their model line to use in the game they design?
I've been playing GW games sine '91. In that time I've only seen them make 1 model (not counting terrain type stuff) that didn't have rules - more on that in a moment though.
Oh for sure, I've seen them produce some crap rules for things. Or rules that I think would've worked better if they'd done xyz instead of what they did. Or rules that I simply didn't like. And I've seen errata that's canceled out various rules bitz (often unintentionally & leading to more errata).
But everythings had working rules.
Karol wrote: Or if they don't, then shouldn't their at least put a warning. For example model companies that make really complicated model kits, put a warning that this kit is not for new players.
They do this. Forge World kits generally come with a notation that resin model kits are intended for the experienced modeler.
And that 1 model that I mentioned that had no rules? The original metal Thunderhawk released in '97 near the end of 2e. It was a limited edition, #d kit. It came with a direct warning that this kit was intended for experienced modelers. And GW straight up said that there'd be no rules for it as it was not intended as a functional game piece.
Of course then along came FW a year later & we got Thunderhawk rules. (as well as a new resin model).
Karol wrote: Then if GW doesn't make their rule sets to be played, and some armies are done by inertia, as GW has to make them, because they made them in the past, then maybe they should put a warrning in their codex or at their store, that army X is ment for hobby collectors and painters, and not new players that want to play.
Once again, GW makes playable rules. They might not suit you, or whatever deluded narrative your trying to spin, but there they are. So take 'em, leave 'em, get together with your friends & modify them.... No warning label required.
The capability for GW to hype me up for any of their offerings died around the same time the prices started to rise into absurd for my tastes.
They rarely release a new kit for my main army ( guard ), and when they do it's rarely the unit I want ) Rough Riders ), rarely as in so far never.
I feel like the story will be dumb, the new stuff will sticker shock me. Once i see whatever they make for guard, which will probably be nothing at all, if its anything it'll be some new artillery that will probably make people rage so even if I do chew down the cost the whines will be legendary.
I don't know, it's hard to get really overly psyched up anymore for GW stuff. I think the churn and burn is bringing me down. Though I'm happy for anyone who is happy for the releases.
Under such an event, you can expect even GW managers to struggle to drum up hype for any future campaign books and for the 40k story as a whole to simply... stagnate, kind of like before 8th edition, when we were always on the cusp of the 13th black crusade but not quite there yet.
Exactly which 13th black Crusade would you like to discuss
13.0 Failed
13.1 It's the same crusade honest
13.2 what are you talking about this is the 13 black crusade no other 13 black crusade has happend
13.3 just shut it Failbadon wins because we say so.
I've been playing GW games sine '91. In that time I've only seen them make 1 model (not counting terrain type stuff) that didn't have rules - more on that in a moment though.
Oh for sure, I've seen them produce some crap rules for things. Or rules that I think would've worked better if they'd done xyz instead of what they did. Or rules that I simply didn't like. And I've seen errata that's canceled out various rules bitz (often unintentionally & leading to more errata).
But everythings had working rules.
To me if something doesn't work it is no longer the thing. A broken engine or an injured player, is not an engine or a player.
ccs 780940 10588142 wrote:
They do this. Forge World kits generally come with a notation that resin model kits are intended for the experienced modeler.
And that 1 model that I mentioned that had no rules? The original metal Thunderhawk released in '97 near the end of 2e. It was a limited edition, #d kit. It came with a direct warning that this kit was intended for experienced modelers. And GW straight up said that there'd be no rules for it as it was not intended as a functional game piece.
Of course then along came FW a year later & we got Thunderhawk rules. (as well as a new resin model).
I ment the rules. If they know they are producing bad rules or phasing out a faction or that the faction is only ment for some sort of narrative or open play, then they should warn people about it. And not first put out something defective, then hype up how they are going to fix stuff next CA, not fix it. And then enter radio silence as if nothing has happened or the faction didn't exist. If I buy a bike and it breaks down, because of being build bad, I can return it to the store. You can't return GW stuff to a store.
ccs 780940 10588142 wrote:
Once again, GW makes playable rules. They might not suit you, or whatever deluded narrative your trying to spin, but there they are. So take 'em, leave 'em, get together with your friends & modify them.... No warning label required.
Am not sure what deluded means, because all the translation I could find were insulting. If that is the case, then yeah awesome dude. Your making fun of a 15 year old, that invested 2 years of his money in to an army that doesn't work. Ah and the change the rules with other thing doesn't work. First because people aren't interested in house rules, specially if they don't help them and second because the idea is laughable. Imagine BMW selling a car that has to be pushed or pulled to be "driven" and their response being, that their car is just a frame work for people to fix and build a real car, and that the real enjoyment comes from building your own stuff your own way, and not getting a working car.
Anyone else feeling a bit... pessimistic about this Psychic Awakening stuff? That it's not going to be all they've hyped, not even close?
Not pessimistic, just apathetic.
I mean, I don't really care what they do lore wise. I stopped caring long ago. Sometime during 4th I think. So it's all about cool models & the rules to field them for me.
Pretty much this. GW's game changing campaigns are throw away trash that don't matter within months (or weeks) of their release. Have been for years. That they've upped the hype cycle just makes me long for the days when codexes were static with no updates for four to five years at a time.
While everyone agrees that competitively, grey knights are bad, they aren't unplayable, you can still put them on the table and play with them.
There is more to 40k than competitive games, just because the meta you play in is litterally the worst on the planet apparently (im really sad that you can't find another playgroup that is less toxic) doesn't mean grey knights are broken.
I've lost games against grey knights multiple times, yes i purposedly brought less than optimal lists but thats the beauty of 40k, you can talk to your opponent to try and have fun. If im playing a game for fun and i know my opponent's army / skill level, i'll make sure that i bring something fair to the table.
Again, its a real shame you don't get to experience that part of 40k and that youre stuck in a toxic meta.
BrianDavion wrote: This post is IMHO evidance that the useal suspects are prepared to whine over PA. claiming "faction X didn't get eneugh" I mean let's assume PA is designed to operate over a year, and the stuff previewed is it. 4 new kits, 1 "unit kit" and 1 character kit. for elder and dark eldar each, assuming GW does this for every faction in the game in a years time that's a giant release. with 22 armies in the game. that's 44 new units. that kinda release would be massive indeed. but you know damn well we'd get complaints from the useal suspects about not getting eneugh, with harping about how aweful GW was for putting out a Grimdarius mini instead of "another xenos mini"
Classic Marine player response.
The 'usual suspects' are any players that aren't using Marines, then?
Marines don't need any new units given the release we're currently in the middle of , but no doubt they'll get at least new characters. GW can't keep their hands off their poster boys for too long.
Meanwhile you believe that craft world players should be happy with 30 year old miniatures that look like dog vomit because they're getting one unit and one special character updated. Unbelievable.
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Eonfuzz wrote: Pessimistic? Sure.
There's been more posts about mehreen supplements than the "Biggest thing yet" aka, psychic awakening.
And frankly it's a damned shame.
This is also my take. Add that nothing changed from the last 'lore shattering event' in Vigilus and its not hard to see why such pessimism exists.
Can you blame them? No one buys Orks or Necrons or Harlequins. The rules for said armies aren't very good. People want power armor, they want to feel like master chief. Why is that such a bad thing?
While everyone agrees that competitively, grey knights are bad, they aren't unplayable, you can still put them on the table and play with them.
There is more to 40k than competitive games, just because the meta you play in is litterally the worst on the planet apparently (im really sad that you can't find another playgroup that is less toxic) doesn't mean grey knights are broken.
I've lost games against grey knights multiple times, yes i purposedly brought less than optimal lists but thats the beauty of 40k, you can talk to your opponent to try and have fun. If im playing a game for fun and i know my opponent's army / skill level, i'll make sure that i bring something fair to the table.
Again, its a real shame you don't get to experience that part of 40k and that youre stuck in a toxic meta.
The thing about this is that if he IS 15 then the 40k you and I grew up with doesn't exist. When I was 15 and playing 40k the internet wasn't a thing so our lists were like "I like this army/model so lets throw it and some other stuff in a list and see how it shakes out".
Now kids getting into it just jumps on the Facebooks, joins Super 40k Fans group and asks for advice on how to start and army and they get spat back the experience of 3000 people who've all discussed the merits and statistical averages of every possible combination of units, models and wargear for hours and hours on end and have distilled every army down to their peak efficiency. So the assumption becomes that EVERYONE plays the game that way and communities like Dakka who focus on the competitive element do nothing to dissuade that way of thinking and often look down on those that play otherwise.
Basically I'm saying that I agree with you that Grey Knights are playable if your meta isn't super serious face but its increasingly hard to find a meta like that because of the internet culture around 40k so I can see where Karol is coming from.
ON TOPIC
Why does it NEED to succeed? Warhammer has had a bunch of campaigns before and most of them only resulted in some fluff blurbs in codexes. I think Dwarfs got a new magic item in their army once after the Nemesis Crown event?
BrianDavion wrote: This post is IMHO evidance that the useal suspects are prepared to whine over PA. claiming "faction X didn't get eneugh" I mean let's assume PA is designed to operate over a year, and the stuff previewed is it. 4 new kits, 1 "unit kit" and 1 character kit. for elder and dark eldar each, assuming GW does this for every faction in the game in a years time that's a giant release. with 22 armies in the game. that's 44 new units. that kinda release would be massive indeed. but you know damn well we'd get complaints from the useal suspects about not getting eneugh, with harping about how aweful GW was for putting out a Grimdarius mini instead of "another xenos mini"
Classic Marine player response.
The 'usual suspects' are any players that aren't using Marines, then?
Marines don't need any new units given the release we're currently in the middle of , but no doubt they'll get at least new characters. GW can't keep their hands off their poster boys for too long.
Meanwhile you believe that craft world players should be happy with 30 year old miniatures that look like dog vomit because they're getting one unit and one special character updated. Unbelievable.
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Eonfuzz wrote: Pessimistic? Sure.
There's been more posts about mehreen supplements than the "Biggest thing yet" aka, psychic awakening.
And frankly it's a damned shame.
This is also my take. Add that nothing changed from the last 'lore shattering event' in Vigilus and its not hard to see why such pessimism exists.
Can you blame them? No one buys Orks or Necrons or Harlequins. The rules for said armies aren't very good. People want power armor, they want to feel like master chief. Why is that such a bad thing?
Because it is a cycle of deinvestment, lower sales and further deinvestment.
Basically SoB Syndrome.
The thing about this is that if he IS 15 then the 40k you and I grew up with doesn't exist. When I was 15 and playing 40k the internet wasn't a thing so our lists were like "I like this army/model so lets throw it and some other stuff in a list and see how it shakes out".
Now kids getting into it just jumps on the Facebooks, joins Super 40k Fans group and asks for advice on how to start and army and they get spat back the experience of 3000 people who've all discussed the merits and statistical averages of every possible combination of units, models and wargear for hours and hours on end and have distilled every army down to their peak efficiency. So the assumption becomes that EVERYONE plays the game that way and communities like Dakka who focus on the competitive element do nothing to dissuade that way of thinking and often look down on those that play otherwise.
Basically I'm saying that I agree with you that Grey Knights are playable if your meta isn't super serious face but its increasingly hard to find a meta like that because of the internet culture around 40k so I can see where Karol is coming from.
I've been playing 40k for about a year, i never knew the "golden years", i'm able to ask people "hey, anyone up for a casual game with a lower power-level than usual?" on my facebook group.
I'm also able to ask "anyone up for a competitive game?". 40k is a social game in the end, you gotta be able to talk to people about what kind of game you want to play.
I come from a MTG background and i find that its the same as playing EDH and lowering/raising your powerlevel to match your group's.
Ask people to bring the non-optimal wargear choices, most people will understand, especially if they know youre playing greyknights. Putting an eradication beamer instead of icarus array on your Dunecrawler for example, or playing some meltas in your tactical squads. Bring some swooping hawks in your crawftworld army or play lictor spam in tyrannids.
If i were in Karol's situation, i wouldnt play with the people they play with usually, i'd try and find some random people that play in their basement, facebook and asking around at the LGS are both ways i'd try and find people to play with. Worse case, i'd find someone in my family to paly with and i'd lend them 50% of my army, regardless of if it means we play a 1432pts list each.
Can you blame them? No one buys Orks or Necrons or Harlequins. The rules for said armies aren't very good. People want power armor, they want to feel like master chief. Why is that such a bad thing?
Orks are still being bought, they are a competitive army after all.
as for necrons and harlequins, they are still popular armies with casual player. I speak from my experience but at all my LGS, Harlies are bought as soon as they are restocked for the most part, and necrons have a decent rotation going on. Just because these factions arent the top dogs doesn't mean they aren't being bought.
BrianDavion wrote: This post is IMHO evidance that the useal suspects are prepared to whine over PA. claiming "faction X didn't get eneugh" I mean let's assume PA is designed to operate over a year, and the stuff previewed is it. 4 new kits, 1 "unit kit" and 1 character kit. for elder and dark eldar each, assuming GW does this for every faction in the game in a years time that's a giant release. with 22 armies in the game. that's 44 new units. that kinda release would be massive indeed. but you know damn well we'd get complaints from the useal suspects about not getting eneugh, with harping about how aweful GW was for putting out a Grimdarius mini instead of "another xenos mini"
Classic Marine player response.
The 'usual suspects' are any players that aren't using Marines, then?
Marines don't need any new units given the release we're currently in the middle of , but no doubt they'll get at least new characters. GW can't keep their hands off their poster boys for too long.
Meanwhile you believe that craft world players should be happy with 30 year old miniatures that look like dog vomit because they're getting one unit and one special character updated. Unbelievable.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Eonfuzz wrote: Pessimistic? Sure.
There's been more posts about mehreen supplements than the "Biggest thing yet" aka, psychic awakening.
And frankly it's a damned shame.
This is also my take. Add that nothing changed from the last 'lore shattering event' in Vigilus and its not hard to see why such pessimism exists.
Can you blame them? No one buys Orks or Necrons or Harlequins. The rules for said armies aren't very good. People want power armor, they want to feel like master chief. Why is that such a bad thing?
Because you end up with a marine thunderdome in some stores?
People want to play Master Chief, but they also want Master Chief to fight the aliens.
BrianDavion wrote: This post is IMHO evidance that the useal suspects are prepared to whine over PA. claiming "faction X didn't get eneugh" I mean let's assume PA is designed to operate over a year, and the stuff previewed is it. 4 new kits, 1 "unit kit" and 1 character kit. for elder and dark eldar each, assuming GW does this for every faction in the game in a years time that's a giant release. with 22 armies in the game. that's 44 new units. that kinda release would be massive indeed. but you know damn well we'd get complaints from the useal suspects about not getting eneugh, with harping about how aweful GW was for putting out a Grimdarius mini instead of "another xenos mini"
Classic Marine player response.
The 'usual suspects' are any players that aren't using Marines, then?
Marines don't need any new units given the release we're currently in the middle of , but no doubt they'll get at least new characters. GW can't keep their hands off their poster boys for too long.
Meanwhile you believe that craft world players should be happy with 30 year old miniatures that look like dog vomit because they're getting one unit and one special character updated. Unbelievable.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Eonfuzz wrote: Pessimistic? Sure.
There's been more posts about mehreen supplements than the "Biggest thing yet" aka, psychic awakening.
And frankly it's a damned shame.
This is also my take. Add that nothing changed from the last 'lore shattering event' in Vigilus and its not hard to see why such pessimism exists.
Can you blame them? No one buys Orks or Necrons or Harlequins. The rules for said armies aren't very good. People want power armor, they want to feel like master chief. Why is that such a bad thing?
Because everyone playing marine is boring as hell, and not everyone has a power armor fetish.
The rules aren't good you say? Then make better rules. Its that easy. Just because GW doesn't know how to design for xenos armies, doesn't mean no one does.
Because everyone playing marine is boring as hell, and not everyone has a power armor fetish.
The rules aren't good you say? Then make better rules. Its that easy. Just because GW doesn't know how to design for xenos armies, doesn't mean no one does.
Agreed but its hard to get others to play using your ruleset, especially in a pick up game environment.
BrianDavion wrote: This post is IMHO evidance that the useal suspects are prepared to whine over PA. claiming "faction X didn't get eneugh" I mean let's assume PA is designed to operate over a year, and the stuff previewed is it. 4 new kits, 1 "unit kit" and 1 character kit. for elder and dark eldar each, assuming GW does this for every faction in the game in a years time that's a giant release. with 22 armies in the game. that's 44 new units. that kinda release would be massive indeed. but you know damn well we'd get complaints from the useal suspects about not getting eneugh, with harping about how aweful GW was for putting out a Grimdarius mini instead of "another xenos mini"
Classic Marine player response.
The 'usual suspects' are any players that aren't using Marines, then?
Marines don't need any new units given the release we're currently in the middle of , but no doubt they'll get at least new characters. GW can't keep their hands off their poster boys for too long.
Meanwhile you believe that craft world players should be happy with 30 year old miniatures that look like dog vomit because they're getting one unit and one special character updated. Unbelievable.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Eonfuzz wrote: Pessimistic? Sure.
There's been more posts about mehreen supplements than the "Biggest thing yet" aka, psychic awakening.
And frankly it's a damned shame.
This is also my take. Add that nothing changed from the last 'lore shattering event' in Vigilus and its not hard to see why such pessimism exists.
Can you blame them? No one buys Orks or Necrons or Harlequins. The rules for said armies aren't very good. People want power armor, they want to feel like master chief. Why is that such a bad thing?
Because it is a cycle of deinvestment, lower sales and further deinvestment.
Basically SoB Syndrome.
Yes. This is the true downside, but I'm not sure what can be done. Something is always going to be the top and something the bottom. Are you familiar with the debacle that happened during the last big Steam sale?
BrianDavion wrote: This post is IMHO evidance that the useal suspects are prepared to whine over PA. claiming "faction X didn't get eneugh" I mean let's assume PA is designed to operate over a year, and the stuff previewed is it. 4 new kits, 1 "unit kit" and 1 character kit. for elder and dark eldar each, assuming GW does this for every faction in the game in a years time that's a giant release. with 22 armies in the game. that's 44 new units. that kinda release would be massive indeed. but you know damn well we'd get complaints from the useal suspects about not getting eneugh, with harping about how aweful GW was for putting out a Grimdarius mini instead of "another xenos mini"
Classic Marine player response.
The 'usual suspects' are any players that aren't using Marines, then?
Marines don't need any new units given the release we're currently in the middle of , but no doubt they'll get at least new characters. GW can't keep their hands off their poster boys for too long.
Meanwhile you believe that craft world players should be happy with 30 year old miniatures that look like dog vomit because they're getting one unit and one special character updated. Unbelievable.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Eonfuzz wrote: Pessimistic? Sure.
There's been more posts about mehreen supplements than the "Biggest thing yet" aka, psychic awakening.
And frankly it's a damned shame.
This is also my take. Add that nothing changed from the last 'lore shattering event' in Vigilus and its not hard to see why such pessimism exists.
Can you blame them? No one buys Orks or Necrons or Harlequins. The rules for said armies aren't very good. People want power armor, they want to feel like master chief. Why is that such a bad thing?
Because everyone playing marine is boring as hell, and not everyone has a power armor fetish.
The rules aren't good you say? Then make better rules. Its that easy. Just because GW doesn't know how to design for xenos armies, doesn't mean no one does.
Yes, but you can't dictate how the community has fun. Some things are popular, so popular that they're going to soak up 90% of the interest and attention. Necrons are a perfect example of an army with a cool aesthetic, but extremely bland execution. Their characters especially are horrendously dull, un-inspired. If the company doesn't think an investment is going to return, they're likely to not focus on it so much. I'm pretty sure the only reason SoB, Chaos and Eldar are getting updated is because they have been the three most consistently asked for things since the company started asking its customers what they want.
Because everyone playing marine is boring as hell, and not everyone has a power armor fetish.
The rules aren't good you say? Then make better rules. Its that easy. Just because GW doesn't know how to design for xenos armies, doesn't mean no one does.
Agreed but its hard to get others to play using your ruleset, especially in a pick up game environment.
I mean in general. Like, GW should find someone from the community who knows xenos, because right now it feels like they have a bunch of marine fans designing xenos for everyone else.
BrianDavion wrote: This post is IMHO evidance that the useal suspects are prepared to whine over PA. claiming "faction X didn't get eneugh" I mean let's assume PA is designed to operate over a year, and the stuff previewed is it. 4 new kits, 1 "unit kit" and 1 character kit. for elder and dark eldar each, assuming GW does this for every faction in the game in a years time that's a giant release. with 22 armies in the game. that's 44 new units. that kinda release would be massive indeed. but you know damn well we'd get complaints from the useal suspects about not getting eneugh, with harping about how aweful GW was for putting out a Grimdarius mini instead of "another xenos mini"
Classic Marine player response.
The 'usual suspects' are any players that aren't using Marines, then?
Marines don't need any new units given the release we're currently in the middle of , but no doubt they'll get at least new characters. GW can't keep their hands off their poster boys for too long.
Meanwhile you believe that craft world players should be happy with 30 year old miniatures that look like dog vomit because they're getting one unit and one special character updated. Unbelievable.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Eonfuzz wrote: Pessimistic? Sure.
There's been more posts about mehreen supplements than the "Biggest thing yet" aka, psychic awakening.
And frankly it's a damned shame.
This is also my take. Add that nothing changed from the last 'lore shattering event' in Vigilus and its not hard to see why such pessimism exists.
Can you blame them? No one buys Orks or Necrons or Harlequins. The rules for said armies aren't very good. People want power armor, they want to feel like master chief. Why is that such a bad thing?
Because everyone playing marine is boring as hell, and not everyone has a power armor fetish.
The rules aren't good you say? Then make better rules. Its that easy. Just because GW doesn't know how to design for xenos armies, doesn't mean no one does.
Lol I'm 75% sure that Togusa was being sarcastic gents.
He knows that Orks, Harlies and Necrons sell.
He's playing Devil's Advocate I believe. And well.
Or he's super down because I think he plays 2 of the armies he's mentioned.
E - he's
Orks are something like the 6th most played faction in the ITC. Necrons are played too, despite an incredibly bland rule set.
ccs 780940 10588142 wrote:
Am not sure what deluded means, because all the translation I could find were insulting. If that is the case, then yeah awesome dude.
deluded.
.[dəˈlo͞odəd]
ADJECTIVE
.believing something that is not true.
No, I'm not. You believe things that simply aren't true. In your case it's because of a combination of your age, lack of experience, & your toxic play environment.
Karol wrote: that invested 2 years of his money in to an army that doesn't work. Ah and the change the rules with other thing doesn't work. First because people aren't interested in house rules, specially if they don't help them and second because the idea is laughable. Imagine BMW selling a car that has to be pushed or pulled to be "driven" and their response being, that their car is just a frame work for people to fix and build a real car, and that the real enjoyment comes from building your own stuff your own way, and not getting a working car.
Grey Knights do in-fact work. Granted, not as well as other armies, and not how/as well as YOU want them to, but....
Your problem looks to be at least 3 fold.
1) You seem stuck on awesome fluff vs actual rules. Whatever the army they'll ALWAYS be awesome in the stories about them. Roll your eyes at it & learn to take the fluff with a few grains of salt.
2) Your specific selection of units/models, your lack of funds to improve on it, & your resistance to the idea of using non-GFK stuff.
3) Your toxic competitive only play environment.
If you can change these factors you'll have better games.
House ruling things might not work in your play environment. I assure you that's not the case in many many many places/groups. You want proof? Look no further than the tourney formats our fellow Dakkanaughts worship. But on the smaller scale? Within a circle of friends? It's not laughable at all. You discuss things & yeah, sometimes you have to also change something for other people.
You're analogies of cars etc? Don't apply to what you're discussing.
BrianDavion wrote: This post is IMHO evidance that the useal suspects are prepared to whine over PA. claiming "faction X didn't get eneugh" I mean let's assume PA is designed to operate over a year, and the stuff previewed is it. 4 new kits, 1 "unit kit" and 1 character kit. for elder and dark eldar each, assuming GW does this for every faction in the game in a years time that's a giant release. with 22 armies in the game. that's 44 new units. that kinda release would be massive indeed. but you know damn well we'd get complaints from the useal suspects about not getting eneugh, with harping about how aweful GW was for putting out a Grimdarius mini instead of "another xenos mini"
Classic Marine player response.
The 'usual suspects' are any players that aren't using Marines, then?
Marines don't need any new units given the release we're currently in the middle of , but no doubt they'll get at least new characters. GW can't keep their hands off their poster boys for too long.
Meanwhile you believe that craft world players should be happy with 30 year old miniatures that look like dog vomit because they're getting one unit and one special character updated. Unbelievable.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Eonfuzz wrote: Pessimistic? Sure.
There's been more posts about mehreen supplements than the "Biggest thing yet" aka, psychic awakening.
And frankly it's a damned shame.
This is also my take. Add that nothing changed from the last 'lore shattering event' in Vigilus and its not hard to see why such pessimism exists.
Can you blame them? No one buys Orks or Necrons or Harlequins. The rules for said armies aren't very good. People want power armor, they want to feel like master chief. Why is that such a bad thing?
Because everyone playing marine is boring as hell, and not everyone has a power armor fetish.
The rules aren't good you say? Then make better rules. Its that easy. Just because GW doesn't know how to design for xenos armies, doesn't mean no one does.
Lol I'm 75% sure that Togusa was being sarcastic gents.
He knows that Orks, Harlies and Necrons sell.
He's playing Devil's Advocate I believe. And well.
Or he's super down because I think he plays 2 of the armies he's mentioned.
E - he's
Orks are something like the 6th most played faction in the ITC. Necrons are played too, despite an incredibly bland rule set.
Sort of. I'm not sure they sell as well as most of you think when compared to marine factions. Case in point, my local store is now sitting at nearly 80% of its player base using marines of some flavor. From what I've been told by friends in other cities, they're seeing the same thing.
I moved on from 40K to other games, but when I played I just used the armies I liked at the time. I dunno, I'd be really interested to see a breakdown of individual faction sales from GW.
Yes. This is the true downside, but I'm not sure what can be done. Something is always going to be the top and something the bottom. Are you familiar with the debacle that happened during the last big Steam sale?
A more balanced release schedule not based upon waves.
No seriously if everyone gets something be it update etc many more would be happy.
And we would not have had legal age eldar Banshees and abbadon the armless.
Yes. This is the true downside, but I'm not sure what can be done. Something is always going to be the top and something the bottom. Are you familiar with the debacle that happened during the last big Steam sale?
A more balanced release schedule not based upon waves.
No seriously if everyone gets something be it update etc many more would be happy.
And we would not have had legal age eldar Banshees and abbadon the armless.
That would be nice, but if those models were thought not to sell, then the company isn't going to waste resource on them.
PA will end with the end of 40k and the begining of a new game that will be similar in its place called Age of the Emperor. The Emporer will die and be reborn, the details of which will end with the devestation of old Marines, the death and rebirth of the eldar race, the full awakening of the necrontyr, a series of waaaghs so big that gork and mork stop fighting and turn their gaze onto the orks when the first Prime Ork returns (Ghaz), Tau enlightenment, Tyranids main fleets arriving, etc. All storylines will advance to a phase where GW can create new lines of models for major factions- not just new models within the faction line. The end result will be similar to AoS in events, and in scope of model replacement for factions- allowing GW to further their model lines to be more obviously GW specific. (In effect invalidating 3rs party sculpts)
PA will end with the end of 40k and the begining of a new game that will be similar in its place called Age of the Emperor. The Emporer will die and be reborn, the details of which will end with the devestation of old Marines, the death and rebirth of the eldar race, the full awakening of the necrontyr, a series of waaaghs so big that gork and mork stop fighting and turn their gaze onto the orks when the first Prime Ork returns (Ghaz), Tau enlightenment, Tyranids main fleets arriving, etc. All storylines will advance to a phase where GW can create new lines of models for major factions- not just new models within the faction line. The end result will be similar to AoS in events, and in scope of model replacement for factions- allowing GW to further their model lines to be more obviously GW specific. (In effect invalidating 3rs party sculpts)
I seriously hope your wrong as that would be probably the most anti consumer path GW could take. That being said it wouldn't surprise me if it happens (it basically happened with AoS, why not skin the 40k sheep as well).
Successful or not, GW will not need the books to succeed. They just need the models to sell.
GW is a model company first and foremost... rules are secondary to their success. As long as the models sell, the success or failure of the books is immaterial.
PA will end with the end of 40k and the begining of a new game that will be similar in its place called Age of the Emperor. The Emporer will die and be reborn, the details of which will end with the devestation of old Marines, the death and rebirth of the eldar race, the full awakening of the necrontyr, a series of waaaghs so big that gork and mork stop fighting and turn their gaze onto the orks when the first Prime Ork returns (Ghaz), Tau enlightenment, Tyranids main fleets arriving, etc. All storylines will advance to a phase where GW can create new lines of models for major factions- not just new models within the faction line. The end result will be similar to AoS in events, and in scope of model replacement for factions- allowing GW to further their model lines to be more obviously GW specific. (In effect invalidating 3rs party sculpts)
PA will end with the end of 40k and the begining of a new game that will be similar in its place called Age of the Emperor. The Emporer will die and be reborn, the details of which will end with the devestation of old Marines, the death and rebirth of the eldar race, the full awakening of the necrontyr, a series of waaaghs so big that gork and mork stop fighting and turn their gaze onto the orks when the first Prime Ork returns (Ghaz), Tau enlightenment, Tyranids main fleets arriving, etc. All storylines will advance to a phase where GW can create new lines of models for major factions- not just new models within the faction line. The end result will be similar to AoS in events, and in scope of model replacement for factions- allowing GW to further their model lines to be more obviously GW specific. (In effect invalidating 3rs party sculpts)
And when 7th was ending, AoS was out and 8th was looming, people said the same kinda stuff. Unsurprisingly, it didn't happen. Even with the major cataclysm and time skip.
WFB and 40k are different animals and 40k is in a very different state. You don't gamble your cash cow the way you gamble an old bull who can't produce anymore.
Having things awaken, rebirth, and arrive and blah, blah, blah doesn't actually change any games, 'main strengths' or whatever. The game is still two similar sized armies going at each other because that's what players have, not because of random fluff changes.
---
And it's also worth pointing out the AoS still hasn't (and may never) make the transition you're talking about. New model lines are fairly rare (and Sigmarines aside, rather small) and model replacement isn't really a thing at all, barring the odd rock troll. Many armies (Skaven, Llizards) got nothing at all, others adapted recent or older kits (Sylvaneth models are rooted in the last wood elf book, with the dryads going back even further). New armies are maybe a handful of kits, except BloodBlooders and Sigmarines.
Seawolf wrote: Successful or not, GW will not need the books to succeed. They just need the models to sell.
GW is a model company first and foremost... rules are secondary to their success. As long as the models sell, the success or failure of the books is immaterial.
You say that, and yet they sure are coming out with a LOT of books...
Chaos Knights had a handful of rules and 1 new model (go convert the rest).
Vigilus had 2 books with tons of rules in them. The first book had only 2 models, the second introduced Shadowspear kind of?
Now we're getting Psychic Awakening and we know the first book will have 4 kits. Two troops and two characters. Doesn't seem like a huge release.
Then you've got 6 space marine supplements, each one also with two kits: a character and an upgrade pack. The book seems the more significant part, since it's got all those gosh darn rules that everyone's talking about.
Not counting the White Dwarf magazines that have all those rules in them for almost every game they make...
Oh, and they're reprinting both the AoS and 40k rulebooks in a smaller format with just the rules...
I'm starting to wonder if GW wants to be the next Barnes and Nobles. Selling lots of books and then some toys in the center of the store...
Paper is cheap and comparatively quick to turn around. They can sell you new rules for miniatures you already own, then not keep the rules in print forever and release new books. They satisfy the demand for ‘support’ and ‘new stuff’ without the two-year+ development time for models. Books help cash flow.
They still produce more miniatures than books and that won’t change.
If these books sell well they can reprint to keep up with demand, in Far East for cost or Europe for speed. If they sell ok they’ll sell out and not reprint and still have made their money/moved a story on. If they sell badly they can pulp them for much less risk than cutting an injection mould.
Books are cashflow to GW, they don’t intend to become a bookseller.
As for Chaos Knights, I'm of the opinion those where released in response to fan demand for them. The fanbase has been vocal and consistant in wanting support for chaos knights so GW proably saw an easy codex oppertunity. Modern GW will useally pick low hanging fruit like that
PA will end with the end of 40k and the begining of a new game that will be similar in its place called Age of the Emperor. The Emporer will die and be reborn, the details of which will end with the devestation of old Marines, the death and rebirth of the eldar race, the full awakening of the necrontyr, a series of waaaghs so big that gork and mork stop fighting and turn their gaze onto the orks when the first Prime Ork returns (Ghaz), Tau enlightenment, Tyranids main fleets arriving, etc. All storylines will advance to a phase where GW can create new lines of models for major factions- not just new models within the faction line. The end result will be similar to AoS in events, and in scope of model replacement for factions- allowing GW to further their model lines to be more obviously GW specific. (In effect invalidating 3rs party sculpts)
Everyone seems to forget that WHFB was on a serious decline in sales and player numbers by the time AoS was introduced.
The idea that they'll tamper with the current 40k universe when it's still printing money is just completely insane. Even if they could convert a majority of the player-base to an AoS40k, just 20% dropping out in rage would tank everything they've built since 8th.
PA will end with the end of 40k and the begining of a new game that will be similar in its place called Age of the Emperor. The Emporer will die and be reborn, the details of which will end with the devestation of old Marines, the death and rebirth of the eldar race, the full awakening of the necrontyr, a series of waaaghs so big that gork and mork stop fighting and turn their gaze onto the orks when the first Prime Ork returns (Ghaz), Tau enlightenment, Tyranids main fleets arriving, etc. All storylines will advance to a phase where GW can create new lines of models for major factions- not just new models within the faction line. The end result will be similar to AoS in events, and in scope of model replacement for factions- allowing GW to further their model lines to be more obviously GW specific. (In effect invalidating 3rs party sculpts)
Everyone seems to forget that WHFB was on a serious decline in sales and player numbers by the time AoS was introduced.
The idea that they'll tamper with the current 40k universe when it's still printing money is just completely insane. Even if they could convert a majority of the player-base to an AoS40k, just 20% dropping out in rage would tank everything they've built since 8th.
This is my thinking too. 40k is on the rise, all in all. Things like Kill Team and Apoc, along with games set in the 40k universe (Titanicus, Aeronautica Imperialis, Blackstone Fortress, Necromunda) are all on the rise and still being supported in varying ways. If they change the lore in any significant way, they have to rewrite the lore for all of those games as well.
I wouldn't expect any drastic changes to the lore, not at the scale of AoS (destroying the universe and making it from scratch)
BUT
I wouldn't be surprised to see some major changes in the theaters of war. The map, the territories, the ways people fight, could all change drastically. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Eldar finally give up and all join Ynnari, or for the Tau to realize they were Necrontyr all along and join forces with the Necron, or for the Tyranids to suddenly grow a personality and be able to communicate and negotiate. I could see them killing off as many characters as they're introducing, delete planets and make new ones, and wrap up a few plot points only for them to create a bunch of different mysteries that they'll try to make us care about.
And let's be real, we went from 20+ years of the 40k story not changing at all, to suddenly changing a LOT in a short amount of time. I think this is a good thing. Expanding the timeline, heading into the future, it's all good. The issue I have is with the way they're doing it. Hyping it up as the 'worst/best thing ever to happen to 40k' and... really it's just a way to sell a bunch more 50 dollar hardback books...?
I really want there to be some good developments. Have the Tyranids eat Baal and force the Blood Angels to move home planets. That'd really feel like a change in the lore. If they can blow up Cadia, they can blow up Baal too.
PA will end with the end of 40k and the begining of a new game that will be similar in its place called Age of the Emperor. The Emporer will die and be reborn, the details of which will end with the devestation of old Marines, the death and rebirth of the eldar race, the full awakening of the necrontyr, a series of waaaghs so big that gork and mork stop fighting and turn their gaze onto the orks when the first Prime Ork returns (Ghaz), Tau enlightenment, Tyranids main fleets arriving, etc. All storylines will advance to a phase where GW can create new lines of models for major factions- not just new models within the faction line. The end result will be similar to AoS in events, and in scope of model replacement for factions- allowing GW to further their model lines to be more obviously GW specific. (In effect invalidating 3rs party sculpts)
Everyone seems to forget that WHFB was on a serious decline in sales and player numbers by the time AoS was introduced.
The idea that they'll tamper with the current 40k universe when it's still printing money is just completely insane. Even if they could convert a majority of the player-base to an AoS40k, just 20% dropping out in rage would tank everything they've built since 8th.
This is my thinking too. 40k is on the rise, all in all. Things like Kill Team and Apoc, along with games set in the 40k universe (Titanicus, Aeronautica Imperialis, Blackstone Fortress, Necromunda) are all on the rise and still being supported in varying ways. If they change the lore in any significant way, they have to rewrite the lore for all of those games as well.
I wouldn't expect any drastic changes to the lore, not at the scale of AoS (destroying the universe and making it from scratch)
BUT
I wouldn't be surprised to see some major changes in the theaters of war. The map, the territories, the ways people fight, could all change drastically. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Eldar finally give up and all join Ynnari, or for the Tau to realize they were Necrontyr all along and join forces with the Necron, or for the Tyranids to suddenly grow a personality and be able to communicate and negotiate. I could see them killing off as many characters as they're introducing, delete planets and make new ones, and wrap up a few plot points only for them to create a bunch of different mysteries that they'll try to make us care about.
And let's be real, we went from 20+ years of the 40k story not changing at all, to suddenly changing a LOT in a short amount of time. I think this is a good thing. Expanding the timeline, heading into the future, it's all good. The issue I have is with the way they're doing it. Hyping it up as the 'worst/best thing ever to happen to 40k' and... really it's just a way to sell a bunch more 50 dollar hardback books...?
I really want there to be some good developments. Have the Tyranids eat Baal and force the Blood Angels to move home planets. That'd really feel like a change in the lore. If they can blow up Cadia, they can blow up Baal too.
I honestly think they were ready to pull the trigger with Ynnari but backed away when they saw how much people still liked and used the monocodex elves. Most of the armies are too distinct to consolidate without pissing people off.
Whats more likely to me is they use the story to justify culling the army and character lists. Baal being eaten by Tyranids means they can kill off half the BA characters and cut down on the models.
PA will end with the end of 40k and the begining of a new game that will be similar in its place called Age of the Emperor. The Emporer will die and be reborn, the details of which will end with the devestation of old Marines, the death and rebirth of the eldar race, the full awakening of the necrontyr, a series of waaaghs so big that gork and mork stop fighting and turn their gaze onto the orks when the first Prime Ork returns (Ghaz), Tau enlightenment, Tyranids main fleets arriving, etc. All storylines will advance to a phase where GW can create new lines of models for major factions- not just new models within the faction line. The end result will be similar to AoS in events, and in scope of model replacement for factions- allowing GW to further their model lines to be more obviously GW specific. (In effect invalidating 3rs party sculpts)
I seriously hope your wrong as that would be probably the most anti consumer path GW could take. That being said it wouldn't surprise me if it happens (it basically happened with AoS, why not skin the 40k sheep as well).
Don’t worry though, the playerbase will lap it up and ask for more. If there is one thing I’ve observed with a lot of newer 40k fans is they seem to dislike literally everything that makes 40k’s background unique and clamour at GW to change it.
It’s such a bizarre stance. 40k’s setting is (if not the) one of the strongest elements it has going for it.
If it fails, it will be because it was not very interesting to the playerbase. GW will eat the loss and move on. It isn't something to worry about. They have had ventures fail before.
PA will end with the end of 40k and the begining of a new game that will be similar in its place called Age of the Emperor. The Emporer will die and be reborn, the details of which will end with the devestation of old Marines, the death and rebirth of the eldar race, the full awakening of the necrontyr, a series of waaaghs so big that gork and mork stop fighting and turn their gaze onto the orks when the first Prime Ork returns (Ghaz), Tau enlightenment, Tyranids main fleets arriving, etc. All storylines will advance to a phase where GW can create new lines of models for major factions- not just new models within the faction line. The end result will be similar to AoS in events, and in scope of model replacement for factions- allowing GW to further their model lines to be more obviously GW specific. (In effect invalidating 3rs party sculpts)
I seriously hope your wrong as that would be probably the most anti consumer path GW could take. That being said it wouldn't surprise me if it happens (it basically happened with AoS, why not skin the 40k sheep as well).
Don’t worry though, the playerbase will lap it up and ask for more. If there is one thing I’ve observed with a lot of newer 40k fans is they seem to dislike literally everything that makes 40k’s background unique and clamour at GW to change it.
It’s such a bizarre stance. 40k’s setting is (if not the) one of the strongest elements it has going for it.
I''ve not heard many people arguing for massive change, some people have suggested they'd like to see some movement and change sure but.. one can still keep the spirit of the setting while having somethings change
PA will end with the end of 40k and the begining of a new game that will be similar in its place called Age of the Emperor. The Emporer will die and be reborn, the details of which will end with the devestation of old Marines, the death and rebirth of the eldar race, the full awakening of the necrontyr, a series of waaaghs so big that gork and mork stop fighting and turn their gaze onto the orks when the first Prime Ork returns (Ghaz), Tau enlightenment, Tyranids main fleets arriving, etc. All storylines will advance to a phase where GW can create new lines of models for major factions- not just new models within the faction line. The end result will be similar to AoS in events, and in scope of model replacement for factions- allowing GW to further their model lines to be more obviously GW specific. (In effect invalidating 3rs party sculpts)
I seriously hope your wrong as that would be probably the most anti consumer path GW could take. That being said it wouldn't surprise me if it happens (it basically happened with AoS, why not skin the 40k sheep as well).
Don’t worry though, the playerbase will lap it up and ask for more. If there is one thing I’ve observed with a lot of newer 40k fans is they seem to dislike literally everything that makes 40k’s background unique and clamour at GW to change it.
It’s such a bizarre stance. 40k’s setting is (if not the) one of the strongest elements it has going for it.
There is nothing thats changed about the 40k setting in terms ot tone or style - Some people are just super hysterical about Primaris but otherwise its the same tone.
The Imperium is in a worse state than ever before, their enemies are more numerous, the Chaos forces are led by multiple Primarchs, the orks by one of their greatest leaders in centuries.
I cna look at my original Rogue Trader and curent day and recognise more in it now than the years of matt ward and co, see Father Logan on his sleigh, Grey Knights having a pyramid of being super pure, Super super pure and super super super pure etc etc - the wolfy wolf wolf years etc - for one thing the way the setting is discussed has the dark humour it was lacking - read Regimental Standard - thats old school 40k in a new form
Anyone who claims that current 40k is not true to its roots does not know or understand the original.
And let's be real, we went from 20+ years of the 40k story not changing at all, to suddenly changing a LOT in a short amount of time. I think this is a good thing. Expanding the timeline, heading into the future, it's all good(..)
There is nothing thats changed about the 40k setting in terms ot tone or style - Some people are just super hysterical about Primaris but otherwise its the same tone.
The Imperium is in a worse state than ever before, their enemies are more numerous, the Chaos forces are led by multiple Primarchs, the orks by one of their greatest leaders in centuries.
I cna look at my original Rogue Trader and curent day and recognise more in it now than the years of matt ward and co, see Father Logan on his sleigh, Grey Knights having a pyramid of being super pure, Super super pure and super super super pure etc etc - the wolfy wolf wolf years etc - for one thing the way the setting is discussed has the dark humour it was lacking - read Regimental Standard - thats old school 40k in a new form
Anyone who claims that current 40k is not true to its roots does not know or understand the original.
I'm not super into 40k these days, but hasn't the narrative shifted to being more character and story-driven the last few years?
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