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Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/08 03:46:53


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Hey all,

This story is still developing.

It started with the announcement that Fantasy Flight Interactive is shutting down, but now I'm hearing from a number of former employees that I used to work with that their entire RPG department has been axed.

I'd've thought a Star Wars RPG would be a license to print money, but apparently not.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/08 03:50:42


Post by: Sqorgar


The newest news post on FFG's website is literally the announcement of a new RPG book...


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/08 03:50:59


Post by: Eldarain


Unfortunate. Not sure if it's always a case of licensing issues/costs but they've made many great games I've really enjoyed and am very happy to have in the collection that are no more.

40k Conquest, Chaos in the Old World, Deathwatch and Black Crusade chief amongst them


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/08 03:52:15


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 Sqorgar wrote:
The newest news post on FFG's website is literally the announcement of a new RPG book...
Their website doesn't mention a single thing about anything being shut down. Doesn't mean it isn't happening.

Besides, RPGs are often completed long before they're announced. This I know from experience.



Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/08 03:59:26


Post by: BrianDavion


Could be that the star wars lisence is coming up for renewal and for whatever reason they're not likely to get a renew on the RPG portion of it?(and thus only have the minitures aspect) if thats the case well.. the rest of FFG's RPG product line is pretty much small scale so I could see FFG just moving to shut it down.

my biggest fear is that FFG will shut it down and their lisence will maintain the same, which means a complete absence of star wars products, which is a shame given that the sequal trilogy has just completed and the Mandalorian has given us such a great nitty gritty peak at the universe.

and yeah RPG products are produced far in advance, I';ll confirm this, FFG could shut it down and put out new books for the next year or two easily.

if FFG is shutting it down it's because some beurcrat running it has detirmined RPGs take ten times as much effort to write as Mini game rules and don;t get as good returns.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/08 04:00:17


Post by: Voss


RPGs in general don't make much money.

Dungeons and Dragons isn't significant enough for Hasbro to bother putting it in annual reports most years. They track Wizards of the Coast's Magic the Gathering money, but the RPG division's costs and profits aren't even worthy of a footnote.

But the interactive division of FFG going down isn't a surprise, for a lot of reasons. I'm amused that they're based out of Wisconsin likes its still 1986.
But as a subsidiary of Asmodee, having their own digital games studio is a questionable business decision, especially since they've produced very little compared to their parent. And doubly since the one thing they have produced bombed *and* is tied to pricey license.


BrianDavion wrote:my biggest fear is that FFG will shut it down and their lisence will maintain the same, which means a complete absence of star wars products, which is a shame given that the sequal trilogy has just completed and the Mandalorian has given us such a great nitty gritty peak at the universe.

That seems pretty unlikely. Most companies avoid making license agreements live on after the other company goes splat (anymore. A lot of stuff got mired in the Atari quagmire, including D&D licensed games). I'd expect the contract to have language that it reverts (to Disney) or their parent company (Asmodee) inherits it.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/08 04:08:38


Post by: H.B.M.C.


BrianDavion wrote:
Could be that the star wars lisence is coming up for renewal and for whatever reason they're not likely to get a renew on the RPG portion of it?(and thus only have the minitures aspect) if thats the case well.. the rest of FFG's RPG product line is pretty much small scale so I could see FFG just moving to shut it down.
That's very possible. The SW license is very compartmentalised, and very specific over what they can produce (even what mediums they can use - print vs PDF, and so on), so it's possible that they license for miniature games and RPGs separately.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/08 04:12:29


Post by: Monkeysloth


FFG has never really had much luck with RPGs seams like. 40k did decent out where I am because it saw it in lots of stores. Don't think I've really seen Genisis or any Starwars outside of the old red starter box they did. Then there's the long stream of games they just acted as publisher for that I've only ever seen in bargain bins.

RPGs are a pretty low margin business and it's probably too hard to justify to investors such a low return on investment. I know when D&D popularity wanes there's always some talk on investor websites if Hasbro should offload the game.

As for the Starwars RPG. I had friends at Wizards when they had it and I've heard the licensing terms WoTC had with Lucas Arts were pretty crazy where it was pretty hard for them to make money off of the RPG unless it was almost as popular as D&D. Something like 20% of all sales went to Lucas Arts in addition to the normal licensing fees.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/08 04:13:52


Post by: Voss


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Could be that the star wars lisence is coming up for renewal and for whatever reason they're not likely to get a renew on the RPG portion of it?(and thus only have the minitures aspect) if thats the case well.. the rest of FFG's RPG product line is pretty much small scale so I could see FFG just moving to shut it down.
That's very possible. The SW license is very compartmentalised, and very specific over what they can produce (even what mediums they can use - print vs PDF, and so on), so it's possible that they license for miniature games and RPGs separately.


I've seen hints that they have to do it movie by movie as well. The RPG has done TFA but nothing else, and the old announcements of that agreement made it sound really specific.

EA has mentioned that they really don't like the oversight from Disney (they're required to submit a lot for approval), and Disney has previously made noises about their own digital games division being built up for when that license finally ends in 2023.
Unlike EA, I doubt FFG had the clout to get a 10 year license out of the Mouse House.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/08 04:17:43


Post by: Monkeysloth


Also doesn't asmodee have an interactive studio? Pretty sure they're doing the Bloodrage game for CMoN. Probably makes sense to just have one digital studio for the greater company.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also FFG has L5R right? Crap, I'm going to have some pissed friends if that dies again.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/08 04:20:35


Post by: BrianDavion


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Could be that the star wars lisence is coming up for renewal and for whatever reason they're not likely to get a renew on the RPG portion of it?(and thus only have the minitures aspect) if thats the case well.. the rest of FFG's RPG product line is pretty much small scale so I could see FFG just moving to shut it down.
That's very possible. The SW license is very compartmentalised, and very specific over what they can produce (even what mediums they can use - print vs PDF, and so on), so it's possible that they license for miniature games and RPGs separately.


heck it could be they're losing the entire SW lisence... that'd hurt FFG, although they could proably take X-wing, adapt it to a unique game (or even lisnece another setting with it) and do alright.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/08 04:21:54


Post by: Monkeysloth


Also a post on Reddit confirms that the RPG group is "Most if not all gone" https://www.reddit.com/r/boardgames/comments/elfkbq/massive_layoffs_at_ffg


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/08 04:22:59


Post by: Voss


 Monkeysloth wrote:
Also doesn't asmodee have an interactive studio? Pretty sure they're doing the Bloodrage game for CMoN. Probably makes sense to just have one digital studio for the greater company.


Yep. Its a decently sized library of titles too, though mostly digital versions of board games you already likely know.
https://www.asmodee-digital.com/en/

But it makes an FFG-specific interactive studio redundant, though a lot of publishers keep a stable of developers around to work on different project simultaneously. No idea if Asmodee is invested enough in digital products to go that route, though.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/08 04:32:07


Post by: BrianDavion


 Monkeysloth wrote:
Also a post on Reddit confirms that the RPG group is "Most if not all gone" https://www.reddit.com/r/boardgames/comments/elfkbq/massive_layoffs_at_ffg


this could mean they'll keep doing RPGs and instead mostly rely on a stable of freelancers. this would be pretty typical of the industry TBH


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/08 04:32:15


Post by: Monkeysloth


More from Reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/comments/elg0d7/ffg_rpg_department_rumored_to_be_shut_down/

The other post was from Same Bailey who use to be a game designer at FFG. He follows up saying that more then likely FFG will outsource RPG stuff to keep costs down.


Mods have confirmed the OP to be former employee Sam Bailey and he has now confirmed 14 layoffs. He believes any future RPG titles will be done through freelance work rather than an in-house team.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/08 04:35:03


Post by: BrianDavion


freelancers is pretty typical for the industry it's not a suprise to me at all. it's apparently rare for a RPG studio to have a entire in house team and not just rely on freelancers.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/08 04:36:17


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Most of the people who worked on the 40K RPG books were freelancers and not employees of FFG. Even people like Andy Chambers and Andy Hoare would have been classified as 'freelancers' despite their lofty status.

Lot of good people that I worked with probably got the axe due to this: Sam Stewart, Tim Flanders, Tim Cox and the indelible Tyranid Tim himself, Tim Huckelbery (yes, a lot of Tims for some reason).



Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/08 04:47:08


Post by: Monkeysloth


Asmodee NA also got hit as a poster in the Boardgame Reddit thread posted

Can confirm, was just laid off from Asmodee North America, which shares offices with FFG
The company bit off way too much too fast and is collapsing under its own pacing. Too many game lines cannibalizing from one another, too much reliance on expensive licensing deals, too much disregard for institutional knowledge and getting farther and farther away from their own stated values.


Seams like a larger Asmodee restructure. At least in NA.

More from the same person


The Marvel license is going to do great both Crisis Protocol and Champions are great games on their heads though (the creation of Atomic Mass studios was I think one of the better moves recently) but at the same time the Infinity Saga hype is on the downswing as they got the license
SW is a rocky fandom right now but hopefully new ships and characters from IX and Mandalorian will boost some lines. Look for a big Armada push soon since X2 isn't carrying the water like it did, Destiny is effectively dead, ImpAssault also dead
Agot they only have the book license so until George writes another one they've literally done everything they can
The biggest issue with the licenses is the amount of back-and-forth approval steps (especially with Disney) and the sales promises that have to be made to get the deals (international licensing is a whole other can of worms)


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/08 04:53:57


Post by: Sqorgar


 Monkeysloth wrote:
Also FFG has L5R right? Crap, I'm going to have some pissed friends if that dies again.
Honestly, I'm a bit worried too. When FFG bought it, it was made obvious that it was a passion project for a lot of the staff at FFG - some of which are no longer there. The card game is good, but struggling, and now the RPG line is probably at risk...

Frankly, FFG has killed almost every game system that I've liked - often, and with extreme prejudice (how do you screw up BattleLore three times?). At this point, I feel like every FFG game has terminal cancer and I should just be thankful for whatever time I have left with them.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/08 05:00:57


Post by: Genoside07


too much disregard for institutional knowledge and getting farther and farther away from their own stated values.


That's corporate speak if I have ever heard it.

Sad to hear about FFG, but since Christian left the company it seemed to be headed in a bad direction since then..

Also I would agree that Disney wants big money for their license. The Star Wars RPG release was starting to show
signs of heading to a new edition with a number of compilation books being released. Plus locally X-Wing does okay but
not like the numbers I would see during first edition. Legion seemed to be doing Okay also even with the odd scale size that
people complained about when it came out.

But if the big bosses don't keep track of what is making money or not.. this will happen..


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/08 05:13:44


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Yeah the gak Disney puts Hasbro through over sales promises is why they've been having difficulties lately (and why you can find toy bins filled with unwanted Rose Tico and Supreme Leader Snoke toys, among other things).


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/08 05:22:18


Post by: BrianDavion


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yeah the gak Disney puts Hasbro through over sales promises is why they've been having difficulties lately (and why you can find toy bins filled with unwanted Rose Tico and Supreme Leader Snoke toys, among other things).


as if it's Haebro's fault no one wants Rose Tico or Snoke toys.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/08 05:27:31


Post by: Adeptus Doritos


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yeah the gak Disney puts Hasbro through over sales promises is why they've been having difficulties lately (and why you can find toy bins filled with unwanted Rose Tico and Supreme Leader Snoke toys, among other things).


Not just Rose and Rey and Snoke...

Bins of 5 different scales of figures. It's like suddenly Hasbro forgot how to do collectable action figures.

GI Joe had 3 scales. 2 of them mattered.

Star Wars had ONE. And it was compatible all the way back to the beginning. Why they decided to throw out a dozen more scales is beyond me.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/08 05:38:31


Post by: H.B.M.C.


BrianDavion wrote:
as if it's Haebro's fault no one wants Rose Tico or Snoke toys.
I'm not blaming Hasbro at all. I'm blaming Disney and their required conditions to have the license.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/08 05:45:59


Post by: Adeptus Doritos


Disney's a good part of the reason you won't likely see an Old Republic Legion army.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/08 07:17:02


Post by: AngryAngel80


Honestly, and this may come off salty, but I used to love FFG. That love has wilted in their current path they've ventured down.

Making my X wing forces useless without spending hundreds in upgrade packs or buying them all over again, killing off other games I enjoyed before they even really felt done ( Conquest ).

They just seem to put out a game, on a very short life clock and I can't trust them anymore so I have to vote with my wallet and walk away.

To put it in a way they can understand, they were supposed to bring balance to gaming, not leave it in darkness and they broke my heart.

If anything they are going down the path in my view of a more flaky GW. Which is probably why some of their IPs aren't doing as well as they once did, people can only be fleeced so much and so often or stung so many times with dying games they just up and cease to support for whatever the reason may be.

I won't touch any of their games outside of single purchase offerings I can love as one and done and I fear for anyone buying heavy into any of their current systems.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/08 08:48:37


Post by: Albertorius


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Hey all,

This story is still developing.

It started with the announcement that Fantasy Flight Interactive is shutting down, but now I'm hearing from a number of former employees that I used to work with that their entire RPG department has been axed.

I'd've thought a Star Wars RPG would be a license to print money, but apparently not.

FFG's SW RPG has never been a license to print money. More like it's always been barely in the black.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/08 09:03:54


Post by: Slipspace


Fantasy Flight Interactive seemed like a terrible decision from the start. As far as I know they've only produced one thing: the LoTR digital card game that replaced the physical game. That's a pretty terrible return in almost 3 years, especially given we're not talking AAA game production here. Developers are expensive too. It's been mentioned a few times that the traditional games developers for their non-digital games aren't exactly on huge salaries but in software development you have to pay good wages to get good people. The RPG side of it always seemed kind of random to me. Maybe it's because most of my FFG experience comes from the miniatures and card gaming side but their RPGs felt undervalued even within the company itself and I rarely saw then mentioned in the wider community, even the Star Wars one.

FFG does seem to have expanded too quickly in some areas and made some questionable business decisions. X-Wing has taken a bit of a downturn since 2nd edition, though I think with the state 1st edition was in towards the end that downturn would also have happened if they hadn't done something to change it and 2nd edition is, IMO, a vastly better game than 1st. It's quite similar to GW's LotR bubble, I think, where X-Wing caught people's attention just at the right time when SW hype was becoming a thing again and now it's starting to tail off a bit. The Runewars miniature game was perhaps a wake-up call for the company too, which showed their own IPs aren't really very strong and I imagine that debacle cost them a fair amount of money and lost time.

I would hope these issues don't spill over into their other games and maybe this will help the company to refocus efforts on the core business and core games now.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/08 10:26:14


Post by: AngryAngel80


The state of X wing really was a mess of their own creation and poor design with the bloat running unchecked in 1st. Ed I doubt the total revamp earned them favors with initial players of the system not happy to throw down twice over for the same items.

I think trusting longevity to their systems or having confidence they won't pull the same with other core lines is being amazingly optimistic.

Completely off topic, sorry for fans the of the RPG books and those who lost their jobs. Hope everyone lands on their feet from it.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/08 11:52:35


Post by: Arbitrator


I was under the impression the Star Wars RPG was pretty damn popular? Most people knew of, or at least had played it. They were churning out content for close to a decade now (EotE was 2012 right?). Most people were whomping at the bits to get Rise of the Separatists.

Ugh. I'm having 40k RPG flashbacks all over again. With Tome of Decay being the 'amber flag' when Undivided and Nurgle content shared a book, I guess the people theorising compilation tomes for weapons/equipment/vehicles would herald an end to the Star Wars line were correct.

What makes this worse is that the Star Wars RPGs aren't available in PDF format officially, meaning whilst most other games these days at least live on in that form, going forward if you don't want to pay £300 to a scalper, your only option are shaky-cam photos.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/08 13:05:08


Post by: parakuribo


Not surprised at this at all.

Scrapping Imperial Assault for Legions, X-Wing 2nd, losing the GW licence to Pegasus/Wizkids, buying CMON, and now this.

Speaking of X-wing, one comic shop near me went straight from many games by different brands to strictly Pokemon and Warhammer after 2nd, and edition, and before Asmodee did that mandatory MSRP crap, both Barnes & Nobles had red stickers on most of their newest ships.

It seems that the Marvel minis game was a success while CMON is working on both chibi Avengers and Dragonball. Since those are the cases, I REALLY hope Disney and Funimation/Toei goes the same path as GW; that way, Asmodee can take a REAL HARD LOOK at what it is doing to it's children companies.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/08 14:02:52


Post by: AduroT


X wing remains quite popular here still


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/08 14:14:02


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 Arbitrator wrote:
What makes this worse is that the Star Wars RPGs aren't available in PDF format officially, meaning whilst most other games these days at least live on in that form, going forward if you don't want to pay £300 to a scalper, your only option are shaky-cam photos.
That'd be the Lucasfilm licensing agreement, where they have a license to produce RPG books, and that means exactly that: Books. Not PDFs of those books.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/08 14:34:02


Post by: Albertorius


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Arbitrator wrote:
What makes this worse is that the Star Wars RPGs aren't available in PDF format officially, meaning whilst most other games these days at least live on in that form, going forward if you don't want to pay £300 to a scalper, your only option are shaky-cam photos.
That'd be the Lucasfilm licensing agreement, where they have a license to produce RPG books, and that means exactly that: Books. Not PDFs of those books.


Indeed, and it runs counter to every other RPG FFG produces.

As to the popularity, yeah, the SW RPGs have been reasonably popular, enough to split the system. Problem is, once again... Lucasflim Licensing. Let's just say that it all costs a lot of money, and RPGs, even popular ones, are expensive to make, the profit margins are at best "not too bad" (without taking licenses into account) and the development time and people involved are both much higher than other products, so objectively, well, they are a hard sell.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/08 15:10:53


Post by: warboss


That's sad to hear. Flawed though they were, I enjoyed role-playing in the 40k universe with the FFG books and was sad to see them give up the license when they got a bigger licensed IP fish to fry (Star Wars RPG). I never tried out their Star Wars game as anecdotally I didn't see any local interest and my own waned completely with the nuking of the expanded universe by Disney. Regardless, I feel for the players who like and invested in the game as I was in their shoes back in the Wotc Star Wars Saga edition cancellation days.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/08 16:37:44


Post by: Sqorgar


How did FFG get the license to reprint the old WEG Star Wars RPGs? That seems like it would've been a licensing challenge, mixed with a limited audience. I was always hoping they'd reprint the related Star Wars Miniature Battle books as well, to play with their Imperial Assault or Legion minis...


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/08 17:00:46


Post by: Monkeysloth


 Sqorgar wrote:
How did FFG get the license to reprint the old WEG Star Wars RPGs? That seems like it would've been a licensing challenge, mixed with a limited audience. I was always hoping they'd reprint the related Star Wars Miniature Battle books as well, to play with their Imperial Assault or Legion minis...


Last I checked the Miniature Battle games were easily found on Ebay and Amazon for a few dollars. That was like 2-3 years ago though.

 parakuribo wrote:
buying CMON


FFG or Asmodee don't own CMON. They just have a distribution deal.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/08 17:46:40


Post by: Sqorgar


 Monkeysloth wrote:

Last I checked the Miniature Battle games were easily found on Ebay and Amazon for a few dollars. That was like 2-3 years ago though.
I've got all three books already (though the miniatures are long lost). I just think it is a cool game that could find a contemporary audience now that Star Wars miniatures are actually easy to find.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/08 19:23:29


Post by: Chairman Aeon


 Sqorgar wrote:
How did FFG get the license to reprint the old WEG Star Wars RPGs? That seems like it would've been a licensing challenge, mixed with a limited audience. I was always hoping they'd reprint the related Star Wars Miniature Battle books as well, to play with their Imperial Assault or Legion minis...


Well d6 is a free and open system and and I’m not sure if WEG is even operational at this point. Grab $ from petty cash and throw at current WEG owner, reprint book faithfully.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/08 19:59:07


Post by: Quasistellar


AngryAngel80 wrote:
Honestly, and this may come off salty, but I used to love FFG. That love has wilted in their current path they've ventured down.

Making my X wing forces useless without spending hundreds in upgrade packs or buying them all over again, killing off other games I enjoyed before they even really felt done ( Conquest ).

They just seem to put out a game, on a very short life clock and I can't trust them anymore so I have to vote with my wallet and walk away.

To put it in a way they can understand, they were supposed to bring balance to gaming, not leave it in darkness and they broke my heart.

If anything they are going down the path in my view of a more flaky GW. Which is probably why some of their IPs aren't doing as well as they once did, people can only be fleeced so much and so often or stung so many times with dying games they just up and cease to support for whatever the reason may be.

I won't touch any of their games outside of single purchase offerings I can love as one and done and I fear for anyone buying heavy into any of their current systems.


To be fair about X-Wing, they handled a transition from a completely analog 1st edition (think 40k with paper codexes etc) to a second edition with digital rules/points about as well as expected. Just need to buy some upgrade packs. The models themselves are fine. It's no worse than 40k (not that that's some high bar to reach), and in fact probably better in that regard. I played a lot of X-wing 1st edition, but my friends lost interest. For me, 40k at least gives me ways to engage with the hobby even when I'm not "playing the game", which is why I put up with the associated bullgak.

Also regarding FFG and X-Wing you have to remember: if for whatever reason they lose the rights to the IP, then the game dies instantly. I'm really wary of getting too deeply attached to any game/system that is produced by someone who is only licensing the IP, and doesn't own it.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/08 20:20:48


Post by: LunarSol


The main problem X-Wing faces is just that its a game where people already have far far too much stuff and its still basically in the process of repacking the stuff people already have for 2nd edition. It's the big problem with cards. As soon as there's an edition change, people become instantly aware just how much bloated the rules have become.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/08 20:36:59


Post by: Gimgamgoo


 LunarSol wrote:
The main problem X-Wing faces is just that its a game where people already have far far too much stuff and its still basically in the process of repacking the stuff people already have for 2nd edition. It's the big problem with cards. As soon as there's an edition change, people become instantly aware just how much bloated the rules have become.


Sounds like the description of many a wargame, particularly the GW offerings.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/08 21:01:33


Post by: ced1106


The Star Wars RPG has been around for years, and you can get SW RPG stuff on MM during their sales. Not a difficult guess that the demand has dropped to the point where the RPG license is no longer profitable.

Dunno how many of you are on BGG, but FFG's made all sort of small, dumb or irritating decisions that eroded company loyalty the boardgame community, anything from MAP to a game that comes with random components. Their "lifetime" game model is to release more "lifetime" games to the market than the market can support and eventually find an evergreen product while leaving customers with a trail of dead games and "never again" mentality. Seems that that's their business model with their game divisions. The loss of the GW and Android licenses hasn't helped, and, at least around that time, FFG's more popular games were based on licenses. I *guess* that, with Keyforge becoming more popular, it's the right time for FFG to look at the books and re-evaluate their costs.

FFG certainly did have the Star Wars license when the time was right -- as in, right before those awful movies. And their apps which take on the role of a dungeon master were well-received for Mansions of Madness, Lord of the Rings, etc. I guess they're doing fine with their Disney-free Arkham Horror line of games.

FFG isn't the only company that over-expands and sees who survives. While nobody is indispensable, some divisions are more dispensable than others.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/08 21:42:18


Post by: Kepora


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I'd've thought a Star Wars RPG would be a license to print money, but apparently not.


TLJ and ROS saw to that.

But aside from that...how do they expect to sell books if they never print them? Seriously, I can never find them in brick & mortar stores, and they're never in stock online.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
AngryAngel80 wrote:
To be fair about X-Wing, they handled a transition from a completely analog 1st edition (think 40k with paper codexes etc) to a second edition with digital rules/points about as well as expected. Just need to buy some upgrade packs. The models themselves are fine. It's no worse than 40k (not that that's some high bar to reach), and in fact probably better in that regard. I played a lot of X-wing 1st edition, but my friends lost interest. For me, 40k at least gives me ways to engage with the hobby even when I'm not "playing the game", which is why I put up with the associated bullgak.

Also regarding FFG and X-Wing you have to remember: if for whatever reason they lose the rights to the IP, then the game dies instantly. I'm really wary of getting too deeply attached to any game/system that is produced by someone who is only licensing the IP, and doesn't own it.

Amen to that. X-Wing 1st Edition was one of my absolute favorite tabletop games ever; I haven't even found anyone to play with since 2.0, though. :(


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/08 21:52:46


Post by: warboss


 Kepora wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I'd've thought a Star Wars RPG would be a license to print money, but apparently not.


TLJ and ROS saw to that.


And Solo... And Star Wars Battlefront 1 & 2... and the nuking of the EU... and the open hostility towards long time fans by the creators responsible for all of the above. Yeah, that all didn't help and converted me from a fan who for decades spent hundreds of dollars each year on Star Wars (movies, dvds, miniatures, models, tabletop/rpg games, novels, comics, video games, apparel, and even tchotchkes like my now faded and chipped stormtrooper set of house keys) to now when I haven't seen the latest movie and my last SW related purchase was the U-wing by FFG when it came out as the culmination of a steady years long decline.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/08 22:05:32


Post by: Azreal13


 Gimgamgoo wrote:
 LunarSol wrote:
The main problem X-Wing faces is just that its a game where people already have far far too much stuff and its still basically in the process of repacking the stuff people already have for 2nd edition. It's the big problem with cards. As soon as there's an edition change, people become instantly aware just how much bloated the rules have become.


Sounds like the description of many a wargame, particularly the GW offerings.


It's a disease that's infecting the industry, but I'd cite FFG as patient zero. Cards for this, cards for that, but a different format so you need two different sizes of sleeve. Tokens and widgets up the wazoo too.

I'm all for a game aid that makes life easier, but I've currently got enough v1 X Wing tokens to supply a moderately large tournament and were I to buy in to V2, which is something I've been considering recently, I'd end up with more that have been redesigned but still functionally do the same thing.



Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/08 22:10:38


Post by: Genoside07


Warboss has a point, Disney could be hurting from previous failed adventures like battlefront and movies, so Disney is squeezing tighter on the things that still makes them money. Got to meet the profit goals some how...

Having licensed product is a double edged sword.. just look at GW when the Lord of the Rings sales dropped off..

And with lay offs most of the time is when a company doesn't meet sales goals with investors, so they lay off people to help meet those goals.. sad but seen it way to many times...
If someone been with a company more than five years they can be replaced with a entry level job to save money..


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/08 22:23:49


Post by: Skorne


 parakuribo wrote:
Not surprised at this at all.

Scrapping Imperial Assault for Legions, X-Wing 2nd, losing the GW licence to Pegasus/Wizkids, buying CMON, and now this..


When did Asmodee, FFG acquire CMON? Heard nothing about it?


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/08 22:33:01


Post by: Aeneades


Skorne wrote:
 parakuribo wrote:
Not surprised at this at all.

Scrapping Imperial Assault for Legions, X-Wing 2nd, losing the GW licence to Pegasus/Wizkids, buying CMON, and now this..


When did Asmodee, FFG acquire CMON? Heard nothing about it?


They didn't, they just entered into an exclusive distribution deal with them but at the time some people were claiming it meant they had been brought.

https://icv2.com/articles/news/view/42699/cmon-enters-exclusive-north-american-distribution-deal-asmodee-na?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Asmodee already handled distribution (appallingly) for CMON internationally so not a massive change.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/08 22:41:49


Post by: Grot 6


The digital side is shutting down. I'm sure it has to do with realignment, and trying to juggle all of those licensed properties that FFG is probably hemorrhaging money right now. What, with 10 different Star Wars games, The Marvel game, the Lovecraft games, and all of the side salads in between, FFG is likened in my area as throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks.

I would like to get the games, but their idea of selling 1 ship for 20+ dollars just for a fighter, or some of the prices I've seen are absolutely laughable.

I did have Crisis Protocol grow on me though. I would love to get that game if they can keep it in the water, and not sink it. AND, I have been jonesing those Star Wars games. I'd really like to get in on them if they go full blown fire sales

The chuckleheads at FFG can't see the nose on their face as far as I'm concerned. The way WOTC crapped the bed, it's a wonder that FFG didn't take over Dungeons and Dragons as a license, and the rest of the games from floundering Hasbro, who as a toy company- forgot that they were a toy company and decided to become a Disney yes man.

Not a real fan of FFG's business practices, and I would not mind one bit walking in to their company one day and just arbitrarily taking it over. Removed - Rule #1 please My local game store has taken it on the chin on numerous games from them, as they play musical Franchise properties. They still have a good library of Middle Earth and 40K RPG books, that are now unsupported. I might have to go up there and see if the shop will give me them, so I can propery dispose of a bunch of FFG game systems...


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/08 23:15:48


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 Azreal13 wrote:
It's a disease that's infecting the industry, but I'd cite FFG as patient zero. Cards for this, cards for that, but a different format so you need two different sizes of sleeve. Tokens and widgets up the wazoo too.
That's one of the reasons I've been so hesitant to get back into 40k. I don't want oodles of cards that will be invalidated when the next Codex comes around, and Codices get recycles so quickly these days that it's just not worth it.

I own all the psychic cards from... 5th? 6th? Not sure. They were all invalidated with 7th, and then invalidated again with 8th. Not doing it again.

I stayed away from X-Wing as I didn't like the heavy deck building side of things, and then when X-2 came about I was very glad about that decision. Armada still calls to me though... that SSD...



Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/08 23:47:53


Post by: BrianDavion


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Azreal13 wrote:
It's a disease that's infecting the industry, but I'd cite FFG as patient zero. Cards for this, cards for that, but a different format so you need two different sizes of sleeve. Tokens and widgets up the wazoo too.
That's one of the reasons I've been so hesitant to get back into 40k. I don't want oodles of cards that will be invalidated when the next Codex comes around, and Codices get recycles so quickly these days that it's just not worth it.

I own all the psychic cards from... 5th? 6th? Not sure. They were all invalidated with 7th, and then invalidated again with 8th. Not doing it again.

I stayed away from X-Wing as I didn't like the heavy deck building side of things, and then when X-2 came about I was very glad about that decision. Armada still calls to me though... that SSD...



cards are optional for 40k. IMHO you can proably snag the tactical objectives cards and be done with it. the faction specific cards are just handy cards for your strats (nice to remind you the strat exists and to let your opponent look at the strat without having to swap codexes across the table I guess) and like 11 special tac objective crds can you put into your deck instead.




Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/08 23:52:25


Post by: Chairman Aeon


 Kepora wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I'd've thought a Star Wars RPG would be a license to print money, but apparently not.


TLJ and ROS saw to that.


Except that Rogue One, Solo and The Mandalorian are pretty much how Star Wars RPGs are run. If I never see another Skywalker it would be too soon.

FFG's problem is that every book after the core has a drop off in sales--like every other RPG line. FFG's strategy of 3 core books works to negate this, but does upset others. In a post-Disney Star Wars wold there is only so much you can publish before risking a second edition that alienates a portion of you customers, as the X-Wing crowd have already commented on.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/09 00:41:15


Post by: BrianDavion


The multiple core books route was annoying. it worked for 40k due to the varying power levels but it's hard to justify to players that A Jedi, a Smuggler and a Bounter Hunter all have too widely varying power levels to work as a group together in star wars.



I mean thats a picture of the main cast of SW rebels, you've got 2 jedi, a former soldier, a Mandalorian, and a smuggler.

but FFG wants to tell you they can't do all three things together in one core game? sounds like a problem with FFG.



Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/09 00:45:19


Post by: Adeptus Doritos


 Azreal13 wrote:

It's a disease that's infecting the industry, but I'd cite FFG as patient zero. Cards for this, cards for that, but a different format so you need two different sizes of sleeve. Tokens and widgets up the wazoo too.


Well, let's be honest for a moment.

Star Wars Legion, as it was executed, was stupid. Oh, boy! A wargame with... two factions. And a year later we got... two more. So now you show up to an event or tournament and you've got 10 people playing, 8 of which are playing Empire and using the exact same units. And yeah, that's another thing- how many kits does each faction have? And I'm sure what we'll see next is the First Order and a few slightly modified rebels reboxed as the Resistance.

A massive expanded universe, and as far as I know only the stuff AFTER RotJ was made non-canon. That leaves quite a bit to work with.

No customization, no modularity, no real options. No customizable, "your dudes" units. Just a push-fit box of mediocre models. If I wanted to play with monopose, non-customizable models... I'd play Infinity, because their models at least look cool and the game requires some actual strategy.

It's not a bad game, compared to some of the crap out there... somewhere, I guess. It's an okay boredom killer but the game stops being as interesting after you play it a couple of times. But the tokens and the weird dice irk me, and then you gotta use the super special measuring sticks. And you need like 2 boxes of the dice to actually play without rolling half your attack and then rolling again.

X-Wing was fun, but Jesus... couldn't they just... I dunno, maybe find a way to execute this? And X-Wing seems to be completely forgotten. I suppose they took up CMON's business model for wargames- dump some crap out there, add a couple of things, bail on it and make something new.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/09 00:53:46


Post by: BrianDavion


A massive expanded universe, and as far as I know only the stuff AFTER RotJ was made non-canon.


you'd be wrong on that everything from the EU was made non canon, however disney's been borrowing heavily from the old EU. which is why we have thrawn and TIE Defenders popping up in SW Rebels, but details are changed, the TIE Defender is now Thrawn's baby, and introduced much earlier (the defender was a pre-yavin design now) as opposed to a design spearheaded by Admiral Zarian and designed sometime between hoth and endor.
Then there's the new movie, which I'll spoiler tag so as not to spoil it for anyone whose not seen it.
Spoiler:
borrows from a few early bits of the EU, namely Dark Empire and the whole Glove of Darth Vader books


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/09 00:55:28


Post by: Adeptus Doritos


BrianDavion wrote:
A massive expanded universe, and as far as I know only the stuff AFTER RotJ was made non-canon.


you'd be wrong on that everything from the EU was made non canon, however disney's been borrowing heavily from the old EU. which is why we have thrawn and TIE Defenders popping up in SW Rebels, but details are changed, the TIE Defender is now Thrawn's baby, and introduced much earlier (the defender was a pre-yavin design now) as opposed to a design spearheaded by Admiral Zarian and designed sometime between hoth and endor.
Then there's the new movie, which I'll spoiler tag so as not to spoil it for anyone whose not seen it.
Spoiler:
borrows from a few early bits of the EU, namely Dark Empire and the whole Glove of Darth Vader books


I don't know if you'd noticed, but the main plot hook of The Last Jedi was directly snagged from The Old Republic: Knights of the Fallen Empire.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/09 01:02:50


Post by: LordofHats


I'm confused by the confusion along the first page.

The articles says they're shutting down a video game studio, not their tabletop RPGs.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/09 01:06:33


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 LordofHats wrote:
I'm confused by the confusion along the first page.

The articles says they're shutting down a video game studio, not their tabletop RPGs.
And word coming from inside the studio is that it was more far-reaching than that.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/09 01:09:12


Post by: BrianDavion


 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
A massive expanded universe, and as far as I know only the stuff AFTER RotJ was made non-canon.


you'd be wrong on that everything from the EU was made non canon, however disney's been borrowing heavily from the old EU. which is why we have thrawn and TIE Defenders popping up in SW Rebels, but details are changed, the TIE Defender is now Thrawn's baby, and introduced much earlier (the defender was a pre-yavin design now) as opposed to a design spearheaded by Admiral Zarian and designed sometime between hoth and endor.
Then there's the new movie, which I'll spoiler tag so as not to spoil it for anyone whose not seen it.
Spoiler:
borrows from a few early bits of the EU, namely Dark Empire and the whole Glove of Darth Vader books


I don't know if you'd noticed, but the main plot hook of The Last Jedi was directly snagged from The Old Republic: Knights of the Fallen Empire.


I didn't notice that, was that the season 2 plot cause I stopped when they finished season 1. I did not enjoy that storyline at ALL.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/09 01:31:52


Post by: LordofHats


Well, while we're on the topic why is FFG constantly out of stock? I feel like every time I go hunting for some peripheral accessory it's out of stock and it takes weeks for it to come back. This seems to be true even of some main products, like Arkham Horror (and as far as I know that's one of their most profitable products).

Being out of stock for weeks is just throwing money away. It reeks of being really overcautious with inventory.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/09 01:32:38


Post by: warboss


BrianDavion wrote:

you'd be wrong on that everything from the EU was made non canon, however disney's been borrowing heavily from the old EU.


The two parts of your statement are not mutually exclusive. Everything from the EU indeed was made non-canon. Equally correct is your statement that DIsney has been (poorly IMO) borrowing/adapting from it after the fact. That doesn't mean it wasn't for years non-canon just because some kernel of it was reshaped and put back in.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/09 01:47:57


Post by: BrianDavion


 warboss wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:

you'd be wrong on that everything from the EU was made non canon, however disney's been borrowing heavily from the old EU.


The two parts of your statement are not mutually exclusive. Everything from the EU indeed was made non-canon. Equally correct is your statement that DIsney has been (poorly IMO) borrowing/adapting from it after the fact. That doesn't mean it wasn't for years non-canon just because some kernel of it was reshaped and put back in.


which is exactly what I said. and I explained how disney had taken old EU ideas and adapted them for their own purposes.

however this means you need to be careful. FOR EXAMPLE, Darth Revan is now a canonical sith, that does not mean KOTOR or any details from it are canon, just all we know is there was indeed a sith named darth revan


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/09 02:39:01


Post by: ingtaer


Adeptus Doritos wrote:
X-Wing was fun, but Jesus... couldn't they just... I dunno, maybe find a way to execute this? And X-Wing seems to be completely forgotten. I suppose they took up CMON's business model for wargames- dump some crap out there, add a couple of things, bail on it and make something new.


Can you elaborate on this? I have read it three times and still don't get what you mean.

LordofHats wrote:Well, while we're on the topic why is FFG constantly out of stock? I feel like every time I go hunting for some peripheral accessory it's out of stock and it takes weeks for it to come back. This seems to be true even of some main products, like Arkham Horror (and as far as I know that's one of their most profitable products).

Being out of stock for weeks is just throwing money away. It reeks of being really overcautious with inventory.


FFG have terrible distribution and seemingly always have, in-between slipped schedules for printing/manufacturing, delays in shipping, delays in clearing customs and trying to get simultaneous release dates world wide (which I don't think they have actually ever managed to do) its sometimes a wonder that they manage to actually sell anything at all.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/09 02:47:37


Post by: H.B.M.C.


I have received first-hand confirmation of the RPG team's demise.



Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/09 03:14:03


Post by: BrianDavion


well that sucks. C7 lost the middle earth lisence recently, wondering if there's some turmoil going on in the industry as a whole right now?


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/09 03:17:55


Post by: ingtaer


As well as the death of the RPGs and the interactive department (which for some bizarre reason were not involved with things like the squadron builders) it has been said that there have been massive cuts in both customer service department and Asmodee NA.
Sales have been noted to be down across most of the ranges and both IA and Destiny are being canned and X-Wing will not have any more v1 ships reprinted this year (though the health of both X-Wing and Legion is good).


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/09 03:25:47


Post by: Adeptus Doritos


 ingtaer wrote:
Adeptus Doritos wrote:
X-Wing was fun, but Jesus... couldn't they just... I dunno, maybe find a way to execute this? And X-Wing seems to be completely forgotten. I suppose they took up CMON's business model for wargames- dump some crap out there, add a couple of things, bail on it and make something new.


Can you elaborate on this? I have read it three times and still don't get what you mean.


Basically, CMON is known for putting out a game, with an increasingly short time where they support it with expansions. They seem to drop support for one game altogether once they make a new, different game.

Zombicide was pretty well supported, until Black Plague was released. Black plague got fewer expansions, but then Zombicide: Invader dropped. Before you could even sort out the stuff in Invader, they were announcing Zombicide 2nd Edition and support for Invader was gone.




Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/09 03:28:52


Post by: Monkeysloth


 LordofHats wrote:
Well, while we're on the topic why is FFG constantly out of stock? I feel like every time I go hunting for some peripheral accessory it's out of stock and it takes weeks for it to come back. This seems to be true even of some main products, like Arkham Horror (and as far as I know that's one of their most profitable products).

Being out of stock for weeks is just throwing money away. It reeks of being really overcautious with inventory.


I have no idea if this is what they're doing but I've always felt the low stock was on purpose. It allowed them to not have to keep as much in a warehouse -- especially if something sold poorly. FFG use to have amazing black Friday sales to clear things out -- which they don't anymore. Second is artificial scarcity to get people to buy something when they see it in stock as they don't know when it will be available again.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/09 03:38:52


Post by: BrianDavion


sounds like FFG's really gone downhill since they stopped doing the 40k RPGs (and I stopped paying em much attention)


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/09 03:45:37


Post by: Adeptus Doritos


BrianDavion wrote:
sounds like FFG's really gone downhill since they stopped doing the 40k RPGs (and I stopped paying em much attention)


My guess is they hit a snag and haven't found a way to make an RPG that requires you to buy special measuring sticks and D12's with stars, exclamation points, and smiley faces.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/09 03:49:44


Post by: Gadzilla666


 Monkeysloth wrote:
 LordofHats wrote:
Well, while we're on the topic why is FFG constantly out of stock? I feel like every time I go hunting for some peripheral accessory it's out of stock and it takes weeks for it to come back. This seems to be true even of some main products, like Arkham Horror (and as far as I know that's one of their most profitable products).

Being out of stock for weeks is just throwing money away. It reeks of being really overcautious with inventory.


I have no idea if this is what they're doing but I've always felt the low stock was on purpose. It allowed them to not have to keep as much in a warehouse -- especially if something sold poorly. FFG use to have amazing black Friday sales to clear things out -- which they don't anymore. Second is artificial scarcity to get people to buy something when they see it in stock as they don't know when it will be available again.

Yeah I once got a big haul of the 40k books in one of those sales. They were at least 50% off if I remember correctly. Those were fun rpgs. Was sad when they lost the license. Hope everybody that got laid off is ok.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/09 03:52:23


Post by: Sqorgar


 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
My guess is they hit a snag and haven't found a way to make an RPG that requires you to buy special measuring sticks and D12's with stars, exclamation points, and smiley faces.
All their RPGs require you to buy D12's with stars, exclamation points, and smiley faces...


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/09 03:53:40


Post by: ingtaer


 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
 ingtaer wrote:
Adeptus Doritos wrote:
X-Wing was fun, but Jesus... couldn't they just... I dunno, maybe find a way to execute this? And X-Wing seems to be completely forgotten. I suppose they took up CMON's business model for wargames- dump some crap out there, add a couple of things, bail on it and make something new.


Can you elaborate on this? I have read it three times and still don't get what you mean.


Basically, CMON is known for putting out a game, with an increasingly short time where they support it with expansions. They seem to drop support for one game altogether once they make a new, different game.

Zombicide was pretty well supported, until Black Plague was released. Black plague got fewer expansions, but then Zombicide: Invader dropped. Before you could even sort out the stuff in Invader, they were announcing Zombicide 2nd Edition and support for Invader was gone.




Oh, I got the CMON reference it was how it relates to X-Wing that I didn't understand!


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/09 04:10:29


Post by: BrianDavion


 Sqorgar wrote:
 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
My guess is they hit a snag and haven't found a way to make an RPG that requires you to buy special measuring sticks and D12's with stars, exclamation points, and smiley faces.
All their RPGs require you to buy D12's with stars, exclamation points, and smiley faces...


which is why I've never bought any of their RPGs and I know I'm not alone in that


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/09 04:25:35


Post by: warboss


If it works for Lucky Charms breakfast cereal, it must work for rpg mechanics, amirite!?


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/09 04:28:40


Post by: Hulksmash


Some of their event staff were let go too. My local group has quite a few ffg employees and from what I heard the majority of the guys who travel and put on large events for them were let go.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/09 04:36:25


Post by: silent25


Remember, FFG with Asmondee was sold to a French private equity company last summer. We are likely seeing the "increase shareholder value" of the company.

Possible the parent company is trimming down FFG to prepare for sale and make it look like a more attractive investment.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/09 04:37:24


Post by: Monkeysloth


Hulksmash wrote:Some of their event staff were let go too. My local group has quite a few ffg employees and from what I heard the majority of the guys who travel and put on large events for them were let go.


wow. Pretty wide ranging then.

Gadzilla666 wrote:
Yeah I once got a big haul of the 40k books in one of those sales. They were at least 50% off if I remember correctly. Those were fun rpgs. Was sad when they lost the license. Hope everybody that got laid off is ok.


The sale they had for the books more were around $5. I got the Collectors edition Black Crusade for $20-$25 if I remember correctly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 silent25 wrote:
Remember, FFG with Asmondee was sold to a French private equity company last summer. We are likely seeing the "increase shareholder value" of the company.

Possible the parent company is trimming down FFG to prepare for sale and make it look like a more attractive investment.


Sadly this is a very possible outcome but it would be strange to be sold off after only a year. Usually private equity companies like to hold on to things for a few but that doesn't mean the parent company isn't having their own issues.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/09 04:55:39


Post by: silent25


 Monkeysloth wrote:



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 silent25 wrote:
Remember, FFG with Asmondee was sold to a French private equity company last summer. We are likely seeing the "increase shareholder value" of the company.

Possible the parent company is trimming down FFG to prepare for sale and make it look like a more attractive investment.


Sadly this is a very possible outcome but it would be strange to be sold off after only a year. Usually private equity companies like to hold on to things for a few but that doesn't mean the parent company isn't having their own issues.


It can be surprisingly fast. Worked at a company that had a new CEO come in openly saying he was there to increase shareholder value. Layoffs started within 6 months. I got caught in the third round where they laid off the entire R&D department of my division despite us having record revenue and record sales. Investors want returns. That the company won't have any new products in two years, they won't care because they would have already sold off their shares.

With the RPG department, it may have actually been doing alright ,even successful, by game industry standards. But, likely it wasn't getting the returns they demands, thus it was shut down.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/09 04:57:42


Post by: gungo


I kinda skipped the upgrading part of xwing 2.0 but I’m been getting the urge to jump in and switch to 2.0 now that they implemented epic play with new obstacles and missions... hopefully that stuff is decent. Does anyone here know?

I don’t think ffg needs to reprint Xwing 1.0 ships anymore they are already rereleasing all the ships in 2.0. The issue with xwing for me is the ships and pilots got more and more obscure and redundant.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/09 05:00:17


Post by: Gadzilla666


That might be it. I'm sure they were 20 dollars or less as I got the Rogue Trader, Only War, Black Crusade, and Deathwatch sourcebooks along with a couple supplements. It's been a few years.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/09 05:18:40


Post by: Stormonu


I am reminded of echos of the TSR/WotC Christmas lay-offs.

Just an outside observer, but it did seem the last few SW movies had really plummeted interest in all SW products. Seeing the various RPG class cards on fire sale told me the game wasn't in a stable state. I was very happy with how the Mandelorian is going and how ROS turned out, and I wonder if we'll see the popularity of SW tick upward after the bombshell disaster of Last Jedi.

Just as an aside, I'm pretty happy with the X-Wing 2.0 system. Anyone familiar with edition turnover has felt the same pain investing in the new material (specifically, the cards). Though the jump in ship $$ has put me off (which is just as well, I have enough to assemble my own fleet).


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/09 05:23:44


Post by: Adeptus Doritos


 warboss wrote:
If it works for Lucky Charms breakfast cereal, it must work for rpg mechanics, amirite!?


PLAYER: "I would like to search this room for any sort of traps, hidden doors, or clues."

GAME MASTER: "All right, place the plastic 'awareness circle' around your model's base by aligning it into the grooves. If you roll more middle fingers than puppies, you've sprung the trap- which will be represented by this hexagonal template with a special cardboard token stuffed into a slot."

PLAYER: "All right, I succeeded! And it looks like I level up!"

GAME MASTER: "So, now what you need to do is go online and order the Level 2 upgrade kit. You're going to need the orange D18's with penis icons in order to play a Level 2 hero".






Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Stormonu wrote:
Just an outside observer, but it did seem the last few SW movies had really plummeted interest in all SW products. Seeing the various RPG class cards on fire sale told me the game wasn't in a stable state. I was very happy with how the Mandelorian is going and how ROS turned out, and I wonder if we'll see the popularity of SW tick upward after the bombshell disaster of Last Jedi.


That's what happens when something makes a setting seem smaller.

Also, now that EU is pretty much disregarded and decanonized... people are stuck with what's in the movies, with no chance of seeing their favorite things outside the movies getting any game support.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/09 05:38:23


Post by: BrianDavion


I dunno, disney's been doing other things like SW rebels and the mandalorian etc, which should give other stuff, problem is though yeah, you can't just toss in a new ship into a video game, just for example, as easily. RPGs where responsable for making up a lot of the foundations of the EU back in the day, now though they proably are a lot more restricted.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/09 05:45:06


Post by: Adeptus Doritos


BrianDavion wrote:
I dunno, disney's been doing other things like SW rebels and the mandalorian etc, which should give other stuff, problem is though yeah, you can't just toss in a new ship into a video game, just for example, as easily. RPGs where responsable for making up a lot of the foundations of the EU back in the day, now though they proably are a lot more restricted.


Yeah, for certain.

But it'll take a lot more than the Mandalorian to get FFG to start making new stuff for X-Wing and Legion. I am still very much holding out for Mandalorians in Legion, and I'd be pleased beyond words if we got Old Republic and Sith Empire stuff, but I think we all know that's unlikely.

I mean, if you asked me "what would you like your Star Wars war game to be like", I'd have hoped for kits that allow me to customize my own Jedi/Sith/Mando/Imperial Intelligence/Scoundrel commander and trick out my troops with various cosmetic upgrade options. A squad of Death Troopers but they have Tanktrooper helmets and painted camo, etc.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/09 05:58:13


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Yeah when they took the WFRPG and turned it into a game with fancy dice and tables to roll narrative events on it turn a weird turn.

They very specifically didn't do that for Dark Heresy's second edition, but then went full bore proprietary dice and other crap for their SW books.

It's just reinventing the wheel.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/09 06:01:38


Post by: ingtaer


gungo wrote:
I kinda skipped the upgrading part of xwing 2.0 but I’m been getting the urge to jump in and switch to 2.0 now that they implemented epic play with new obstacles and missions... hopefully that stuff is decent. Does anyone here know?


New Epic is great (as are most of the multiplayer missions like Aces High), it is no longer an auto loose to take a huge ship indeed quite the opposite, they are pretty damn scary and the wing tool/formation for squadron play speeds things up dramatically. If the people are playing to have fun and not just to win as hard as possible it is fantastic. Outside of the gas clouds released with the prequel factions I have only experienced playing with one of the new obstacle types as they are not released until the new card packs next month or so.


I don’t think ffg needs to reprint Xwing 1.0 ships anymore they are already rereleasing all the ships in 2.0. The issue with xwing for me is the ships and pilots got more and more obscure and redundant.

The reprints are the rereleases, you either have to get v1 ships and have the stuff to convert it through a conversion kit or wait for it to be reprinted for v2. In many instances this has entailed a new sculpt (ref. B-Wing or Fang) but now it is rumoured that FFG are not doing any more of these for this year so you either get an old one to convert or you are out of luck.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/09 06:04:50


Post by: BrianDavion


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yeah when they took the WFRPG and turned it into a game with fancy dice and tables to roll narrative events on it turn a weird turn.

They very specifically didn't do that for Dark Heresy's second edition, but then went full bore proprietary dice and other crap for their SW books.

It's just reinventing the wheel.


it's worth noting fan response to their turning WFRPG into a lotta properitory dice wasn't popular eaither, FFG proably figured they could smear feces on the pages and get a top selling RPG with that brand name


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/09 06:04:59


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Looking at the Imperial Assault section of their store, everything is unavailable. Problem is I don't know if that's because they've stopped making it, or just because FFG is so awful at producing adequate stock of anything.

I mean I got most of my 40k RPG books either on store credit (for playtesting them) or as author's copies. I can't imagine having to buy the books I got via normal channels. Would've been very hard.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/09 06:07:58


Post by: ingtaer


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Looking at the Imperial Assault section of their store, everything is unavailable. Problem is I don't know if that's because they've stopped making it, or just because FFG is so awful at producing adequate stock of anything.


IA has not been available through FFG's store for ages due to a licensing issue, from memory they licensed the game engine from Hasbro who then sued them over breaching it.

Edit- clarification.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/09 06:13:29


Post by: H.B.M.C.


That... wha... that's stupid.

Ah well, I've always been of the opinion that the biggest mistake that FFG made with their SW games was making the IA and Legion models incompatible with one another, although thinking on it now maybe that was't their choice.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/09 06:45:33


Post by: Monkeysloth


One of the people hit in the layoff posted on reddit that IA and Destiny are pretty much dead and have been for a while. Probably explains why sellers on Amazon had IA for like $40 for a month last fall.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/09 08:14:27


Post by: Yodhrin


 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
I dunno, disney's been doing other things like SW rebels and the mandalorian etc, which should give other stuff, problem is though yeah, you can't just toss in a new ship into a video game, just for example, as easily. RPGs where responsable for making up a lot of the foundations of the EU back in the day, now though they proably are a lot more restricted.


I mean, if you asked me "what would you like your Star Wars war game to be like", I'd have hoped for kits that allow me to customize my own Jedi/Sith/Mando/Imperial Intelligence/Scoundrel commander and trick out my troops with various cosmetic upgrade options. A squad of Death Troopers but they have Tanktrooper helmets and painted camo, etc.


While the lack of player-made commanders in the rules and accompanying models is a pain, why would you think the latter kind of thing was a real possibility? Why would you even want it tbh? That's not how Star Wars works. Death Troopers are Death Troopers, they look like they do. Troop types being tied to a specific style of armour and one canon colourscheme(with very rare exceptions where they have two or three extremely specific and limited alternatives, and Clones) is pretty core to the aesthetic of the franchise, certainly the OT-era aesthetic.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/09 08:26:54


Post by: AngryAngel80


Quasistellar wrote:
AngryAngel80 wrote:
Honestly, and this may come off salty, but I used to love FFG. That love has wilted in their current path they've ventured down.

Making my X wing forces useless without spending hundreds in upgrade packs or buying them all over again, killing off other games I enjoyed before they even really felt done ( Conquest ).

They just seem to put out a game, on a very short life clock and I can't trust them anymore so I have to vote with my wallet and walk away.

To put it in a way they can understand, they were supposed to bring balance to gaming, not leave it in darkness and they broke my heart.

If anything they are going down the path in my view of a more flaky GW. Which is probably why some of their IPs aren't doing as well as they once did, people can only be fleeced so much and so often or stung so many times with dying games they just up and cease to support for whatever the reason may be.

I won't touch any of their games outside of single purchase offerings I can love as one and done and I fear for anyone buying heavy into any of their current systems.


To be fair about X-Wing, they handled a transition from a completely analog 1st edition (think 40k with paper codexes etc) to a second edition with digital rules/points about as well as expected. Just need to buy some upgrade packs. The models themselves are fine. It's no worse than 40k (not that that's some high bar to reach), and in fact probably better in that regard. I played a lot of X-wing 1st edition, but my friends lost interest. For me, 40k at least gives me ways to engage with the hobby even when I'm not "playing the game", which is why I put up with the associated bullgak.

Also regarding FFG and X-Wing you have to remember: if for whatever reason they lose the rights to the IP, then the game dies instantly. I'm really wary of getting too deeply attached to any game/system that is produced by someone who is only licensing the IP, and doesn't own it.



They didn't handle the transition well at all in my opinion. If you only got a few ships from Edition 1, yeah, no worries just get the upgrade things and you are good to go. I had a lot from X wing, so to get all my stuff upgraded, including huge ships and it would be close to around 250$ in upgrade packs for all of my stuff as some would need multiple upgrade packs with how they are set up and I had all the factions with a large amount of Empire for running big games which I did sometimes. For me, that wasn't a small expense and GW handled that much better with the transition to 8th ed which had me buying 50$ worth of books to use all of my models as well as no other edition I'd played in till that point needing a full rules overhaul and replacement books to keep up with it on launch.

Now FFG have been pumping up the costs and for what was once an easy sell for friends as it was cheap, they are losing that along the way and with what happened to me others really don't trust them to jump into Edition 2 around here and I don't blame them. As I said, I was once a big fan of theirs but they burned me with one too many game bailed on, and the 2nd ED rip off. For those enjoying the system, more power to them but I can't justify spending that much again. I'd rather just keep the old stuff and play it with friends who bother my ships for the games in 1st ed style.

As well, I don't like the costs being not on the cards at all, not with a company with such a bad track record for supporting games long term, at least my old X wing has points for playing still as I bought them.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/09 08:33:34


Post by: Adeptus Doritos


 Yodhrin wrote:
While the lack of player-made commanders in the rules and accompanying models is a pain, why would you think the latter kind of thing was a real possibility? Why would you even want it tbh? That's not how Star Wars works. Death Troopers are Death Troopers, they look like they do. Troop types being tied to a specific style of armour and one canon colourscheme(with very rare exceptions where they have two or three extremely specific and limited alternatives, and Clones) is pretty core to the aesthetic of the franchise, certainly the OT-era aesthetic.


Because I want to customize things. Because I don't want mine to look like everyone else's.

I don't really care about being super accurate, if I did- I'd play Historical Wargames with the remaining 7 people on this continent that still do.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/09 09:20:56


Post by: ced1106


 silent25 wrote:
Possible the parent company is trimming down FFG to prepare for sale and make it look like a more attractive investment.


Actually, this reminds me of what Asmodee did with Mayfair and Days of Wonder. They stripped away the company down to its best-selling product, eg. Settlers of Cataan, and Small World.

Looking at that, then, I wonder how FFG made it this far. IIRC, Christian Petersen was head of Asmodee North America, so mebbe he was able to "protect" the company. Now that he's left, the company's being reduced to its best-selling products. This doesn't happen overnight, so it's taken awhile for the effects to be seen. My FFG demo guy contact (who never replied to my support requests from years back, so I'm not surprised about the FFG cutbacks) looks to also be leaving the company for the Asmodee demo coordinator. I've also heard that designers and playtesters had long hours of unpaid playtest time.

I'm surprised that Imperial Assault is ending, although I suppose it's expected since it's been around several years with plenty of released content.

I'd say the hobby industry as a whole is contracting, and was headed for a contraction before Asmodee and KS, when "cult of the new" was a term used on BGG. Essentially, it meant that boardgames were being produced so quickly that you didn't have time in your gaming group to play a boardgame more than once before the next one arrived. Then we had a supposed golden age of boardgames, further acceleration of games with KS, and Amazon selling boardgames at 50% - 70% during the holiday season. Locally, in Silicon Valley, perhaps the highest concentration of gamers with money to spend, we had a gaming flea market, and 70% off was the norm, with some sellers, including myself, giving away games for free, because we already had too many games. Consumers will still have plenty of games and new games to play, it's just that they won't have -- because they won't need -- as many as the industry is producing.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/09 10:13:34


Post by: Albertorius


 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:
While the lack of player-made commanders in the rules and accompanying models is a pain, why would you think the latter kind of thing was a real possibility? Why would you even want it tbh? That's not how Star Wars works. Death Troopers are Death Troopers, they look like they do. Troop types being tied to a specific style of armour and one canon colourscheme(with very rare exceptions where they have two or three extremely specific and limited alternatives, and Clones) is pretty core to the aesthetic of the franchise, certainly the OT-era aesthetic.


Because I want to customize things. Because I don't want mine to look like everyone else's.

I don't really care about being super accurate, if I did- I'd play Historical Wargames with the remaining 7 people on this continent that still do.

I mean... FFG can only do what Disney allows them to.

IIRC, the modular HIPS droids were the path forward, and in that regard it could allow what you want without directly infringing the terms of the license.

I seem to remember that there was a HIPS Phase I Clone troopers box planned.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/09 10:52:00


Post by: ingtaer


 Albertorius wrote:
 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:
While the lack of player-made commanders in the rules and accompanying models is a pain, why would you think the latter kind of thing was a real possibility? Why would you even want it tbh? That's not how Star Wars works. Death Troopers are Death Troopers, they look like they do. Troop types being tied to a specific style of armour and one canon colourscheme(with very rare exceptions where they have two or three extremely specific and limited alternatives, and Clones) is pretty core to the aesthetic of the franchise, certainly the OT-era aesthetic.


Because I want to customize things. Because I don't want mine to look like everyone else's.

I don't really care about being super accurate, if I did- I'd play Historical Wargames with the remaining 7 people on this continent that still do.

I mean... FFG can only do what Disney allows them to.

IIRC, the modular HIPS droids were the path forward, and in that regard it could allow what you want without directly infringing the terms of the license.

I seem to remember that there was a HIPS Phase I Clone troopers box planned.


Phase II, released next month (maybe) along with B2 droids.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/09 11:12:46


Post by: Albertorius


 ingtaer wrote:
 Albertorius wrote:
 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:
While the lack of player-made commanders in the rules and accompanying models is a pain, why would you think the latter kind of thing was a real possibility? Why would you even want it tbh? That's not how Star Wars works. Death Troopers are Death Troopers, they look like they do. Troop types being tied to a specific style of armour and one canon colourscheme(with very rare exceptions where they have two or three extremely specific and limited alternatives, and Clones) is pretty core to the aesthetic of the franchise, certainly the OT-era aesthetic.


Because I want to customize things. Because I don't want mine to look like everyone else's.

I don't really care about being super accurate, if I did- I'd play Historical Wargames with the remaining 7 people on this continent that still do.

I mean... FFG can only do what Disney allows them to.

IIRC, the modular HIPS droids were the path forward, and in that regard it could allow what you want without directly infringing the terms of the license.

I seem to remember that there was a HIPS Phase I Clone troopers box planned.


Phase II, released next month (maybe) along with B2 droids.


Ah, nice


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/09 13:25:13


Post by: Ghool


A private equity firm has owned Asmodee for many years now, back when they started buying up all the board game producers a few years ago. They consolidated the market, increased the share value and sold the entire company off.
To another private equity firm.

It was after this sale that these things started happening. So it’s not because Asmodee was suddenly bought by a firm, it’s just that the first firm knew the bubble they built was going to burst, so they made sure to sell it.

After several years of flooding the market with product, raising prices, and maximizing profit, it’s no wonder the company is now going through a massive contraction.

Just an FYI that the problems began as soon as Asmodee started to consolidate the market, and not last year when it was sold to a second equity firm.

Funny how all this is going down, when we were originally told in corporate PR-speak that the consolidation and MAPPs were for the good of the LGS. I wonder how LGSs will do when several large companies begin shuttering their doors to pay shareholder dividends.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/09 13:48:24


Post by: Insurgency Walker


Unfortunately, maximizing profits pretty much means a growth death cycle. Its being reflected in many industries right now.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/09 15:27:58


Post by: Yodhrin


 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:
While the lack of player-made commanders in the rules and accompanying models is a pain, why would you think the latter kind of thing was a real possibility? Why would you even want it tbh? That's not how Star Wars works. Death Troopers are Death Troopers, they look like they do. Troop types being tied to a specific style of armour and one canon colourscheme(with very rare exceptions where they have two or three extremely specific and limited alternatives, and Clones) is pretty core to the aesthetic of the franchise, certainly the OT-era aesthetic.


Because I want to customize things. Because I don't want mine to look like everyone else's.

I don't really care about being super accurate, if I did- I'd play Historical Wargames with the remaining 7 people on this continent that still do.


OK, there's nothing wrong with wanting that, but it's not a reasonable expectation or a fair criticism of the game/FFG I don't think. Star Wars is a lot closer to historicals stuff than it is to "Your Dudes" settings like 40K(*used to be), so when FFG put out a box of Storm Troopers they're going to be Storm Troopers, as-seen on TV, because for most people the appeal of buying Storm Troopers is that they look like Storm Troopers. There's nothing stopping you from doing your Death Troopers with Tanktrooper heads and camo armour paint idea, it's just a matter of conversions rather than being an option in the box.

Oh, and I'm willing to bet you're just slightly underestimating the number of historicals people out there. Just a wee bit.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/09 16:05:51


Post by: Sqorgar


 Ghool wrote:
After several years of flooding the market with product, raising prices, and maximizing profit, it’s no wonder the company is now going through a massive contraction.
Are you saying that Games Workshop's business model is not sustainable? That's... oh, wait. We're in the Asmodee thread...

I think boardgames as a whole are about to go into a massive contraction. Boardgames are big and expensive, so storing a dozen of these things takes up a LOT of space. Storing a hundred of them requires creating new pocket dimensions (especially if you do kickstarters). Gone are the days where gamers would have a closet with Monopoly, Checkers, and a beat up, nonworking copy of Operation missing most of its pieces.

I think we are quickly approaching the limit to how much stuff we can handle as an industry and as consumers. And I think FFG has been one of the worst offenders of it, with product lines like Imperial Assault being the very definition of "too much stuff, too much money". Then they went collectible with Destiny and, to a lesser extent, Keyforge. That they'd be the first to contract is probably to be expected.

My prediction is that compactness will be the next trend in board gaming. Stuff like the Tiny Epic games, or even card games with rotation, so that you don't need to keep binders full of cards (unless you want to). I also think board game miniatures will get smaller (we have the technology to make them look pretty good now), though ironically, the Joan of Arc kickstarter, which is just 15mm models, takes up more space than my children.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/09 16:50:22


Post by: LunarSol


Worth noting, this is definitely an Asmodee wide things and not FFG specific. People are affected across all the companies Asmodee has been buying over the last few years.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/09 21:51:28


Post by: Dysartes


 Monkeysloth wrote:
One of the people hit in the layoff posted on reddit that IA and Destiny are pretty much dead and have been for a while. Probably explains why sellers on Amazon had IA for like $40 for a month last fall.


Well, when you don't release new product for over a year, what did they think was going to happen?

And that's before we consider the poor balance that arose from the release of a card to support the Rebels characters, that basically broke competitive play for around a year.

IA didn't die naturally - it was murdered by its parents.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/09 22:59:48


Post by: Adeptus Doritos


 Albertorius wrote:

I mean... FFG can only do what Disney allows them to.


This is why the franchise is dying.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/09 23:02:59


Post by: ced1106


> Are you saying that Games Workshop's business model is not sustainable? That's... oh, wait. We're in the Asmodee thread...

Well, as I understand it, GW changed its business model somewhat after the Kirby years. The contrast paints certainly show an attempt to gain more customers.

Also, unlike FFG, GW has only two "lifestyle" games. FFG has gone through several: Star Wars Legion, Star Wars X-Wing, Star Wars Armada, Arkham Horror LCG, Star Wars Destiny, Keyforge, L5R LCG, and, previously, Android LCG, Cthulhu LCG, and Runewars. Dunno if LotR LCG is still around.

GW's business model, then, looks to be focused on a few product lines (similar to WotC), while FFG's is, as another poster said, throwing spaghetti at a wall.

> Worth noting, this is definitely an Asmodee wide things and not FFG specific. People are affected across all the companies Asmodee has been buying over the last few years.

Yep. As I said earlier, I think it's a hobby-wide problem. Frex, CMON's having mixed results with its growth. (Speaking of CMON, FFG's "spaghetti wall" business model seems to be close to CMON's "fire and forget" one...


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/10 17:04:02


Post by: Psychopomp


I'm somewhat distressed over the news about FFG's rpg division, but not panicky as regards my gaming. Having formerly worked in IT, I will always have sympathy for anyone caught up in a sudden wave of corporate-driven layoffs. That's a terrible place to be.

FFG's Star Wars rpg...I started out very skeptical of the funky dice, especially after the WFRP 3e fiasco. But a friend convinced me to give it a try, and after playing, then running it, I fell in love with the system. I'd say it's my favorite rpg game system of the 2010's, and it cured me of my fear of proprietary dice, much to the benefit of X-Wing and Modiphius's Fallout: Wasteland Warfare.

But...the Star Wars rpg line is all but complete. The career splatbooks for all three lines are out. We've got setting books for the interwar period and the Clone Wars. They're putting out collection books for both gear and starships (which is, I would argue, how they should have started the lines, but oh well). I mean, what's left? Another two-book setting set for the Old Republic? Maybe a one- or two-book setting set for the sequel trilogy?

There's not much left to do but a second edition. And for those of us who like the system, I don't think there's much a second edition needs to do beyond incorporating some errata and a few ideas from Genesys.

It's Genesys where I feel more squirrel about this news. I really like the system, I love the idea of using it as a generic engine with setting books fleshing out the concepts hinted at in the core. My main problem with the line has been how slow the books have been to release, and I doubt that going freelance will help that situation.

And that's assuming that Asmodee (or rather, their shadowy owners) aren't planning to just abandon the rpgs in hopes of flipping the company to the next private equity firm who will trim and flip again, etc, until the company is dead enough for the vulture capitalists to swoop in and pick the corpse apart.

I hope that doesn't happen, though. I really like some of FFG's stuff, even if their distribution and game-support focus leaves a lot to be desired.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/10 17:13:14


Post by: LunarSol


 Dysartes wrote:

IA didn't die naturally - it was murdered by its parents.


Imperial Assault didn't really have anywhere to go without rebooting it to another era anyway. It had reached the point where it was a pretty full product line in spite of being crippled by a terrible system of micro expansions instead of full experiences.

The vs mode was cool but never really caught on for a bunch of reasons. Really terrible activation control balance was the big culprit, but the setup time of maps was a huge issue as well. Still, a fun game, particularly with the app.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/10 19:15:50


Post by: Sqorgar


 LunarSol wrote:

Imperial Assault didn't really have anywhere to go without rebooting it to another era anyway. It had reached the point where it was a pretty full product line in spite of being crippled by a terrible system of micro expansions instead of full experiences.
You say that, but I wouldn't have said no to an Endor expansion with some Ewoks. They could've released campaign/skirmish books (like that one they did for Descent), even mixing expansions (FFG's fear of expansion mixing release gimped Descent and Imperial Assault). They could've done more with the app as well. I think it only really did the core set and Jabba's Realm.

Imperial Assault was a mature line, but it was a successful one that was still selling rather well (based on how quickly the entire line disappeared from Miniature Market during the Black Friday sale, back when it was still active). I don't think it is a coincidence that it just stopped dead the second Legion was in production, and I wouldn't be surprised if whatever screwy thing was going on with Hasbro wasn't at least partially responsible.

One day, someone is going to make a miniature of the Ithorian heavy armor that was on Star Wars Galaxies or some sexy Mon Calamari - then and only then will I consider a Star Wars miniature line "complete".


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/10 20:12:31


Post by: LunarSol


The expansion model was just a mess. That initial glut of $100+ dollars worth of micro expansions to replace the cardboard tokens in the box put a ton of people off the game and that design really didn't get any better going forward. If they had just added variety it would be one thing, but the campaign ends in a climatic AT-ST duel that's hugely underwhelming with one AT-ST. Immediately following that up with the Boba Fett story, Boba Fett sold separately, and no real clear guide as to which of the expansions were really needed kept a ton of people away.

I'm not surprised it sold out during the sale. Its a compelling game with a lot of cool material that nickled and dimed its audience away. It's basically an entire line of "I'd want that if it was cheaper" and I've considered picking stuff up myself when I've seen it on sale, but could never find the things I really wanted.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/10 20:57:03


Post by: Galas


TBH is not like they ever did anything worthwile. Nothing will be missed. With the exception of people that has lost their jobs. That sucks.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/10 21:57:04


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 Galas wrote:
TBH is not like they ever did anything worthwile. Nothing will be missed.
I wondered how long it'd take someone to post a "and nothing of value was lost" post.

Classy.



Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/10 22:19:54


Post by: Gimgamgoo


 Galas wrote:
TBH is not like they ever did anything worthwile. Nothing will be missed. With the exception of people that has lost their jobs. That sucks.


Such a nice sentiment for the thousands of gamers that play FFG (RPG) games.
Sheesh.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/10 22:45:19


Post by: ced1106


OT: Asmodee USA sale. https://www.reddit.com/r/Boardgamedeals/comments/emtz2r/asmodee_usa_sale_crystal_clans_wall_expansions/

Hey, look. The Game of Thrones LCG. Add that to the list of "lifestyle" games FFG put out.

FFG's been treating their employees badly even before the Asmodee takeover. Rumormill is that they weren't paying their employees for playtesting, even those were done outside company hours.

This implosion was more when than if, and I guess I'm glad to hear my favorite FFG game designer, Nikki Valens (and Kevin Wilson?) left when they did. Their growth model, particularly "lifestyle" games, was, imo, unsustainable, and, for all I know, Asmodee's chopping block may be the alternative to bankruptcy for the company.

Unless, of course, you were all buying Star Wars RPG books left and right.



Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/10 22:49:23


Post by: warboss


What's a "lifestyle" game?


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/10 22:55:14


Post by: LordofHats


 ced1106 wrote:
OT: Asmodee USA sale. https://www.reddit.com/r/Boardgamedeals/comments/emtz2r/asmodee_usa_sale_crystal_clans_wall_expansions/

Hey, look. The Game of Thrones LCG. Add that to the list of "lifestyle" games FFG put out.

FFG's been treating their employees badly even before the Asmodee takeover. Rumormill is that they weren't paying their employees for playtesting, even those were done outside company hours.

This implosion was more when than if, and I guess I'm glad to hear my favorite FFG game designer, Nikki Valens (and Kevin Wilson?) left when they did. Their growth model, particularly "lifestyle" games, was, imo, unsustainable, and, for all I know, Asmodee's chopping block may be the alternative to bankruptcy for the company.

Unless, of course, you were all buying Star Wars RPG books left and right.



And of course Arkham stuff isn't on sale... though I suppose that could be a good thing on that front?


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/10 22:58:40


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Speaking of FFG and Star Wars?

What’s going on with Armada these days? Just went to browse on Element, checking the price of the SSD (too much just for display, sadly). And there doesn’t seem to be a huge amount of stuff for it?


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/10 23:45:15


Post by: VictorVonTzeentch


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Speaking of FFG and Star Wars?

What’s going on with Armada these days? Just went to browse on Element, checking the price of the SSD (too much just for display, sadly). And there doesn’t seem to be a huge amount of stuff for it?


The just released a Rebel and Imperial Capital Ship, and they announced Clone Wars to be eventually.

So expect the glacier slow release cycle for Armada to pick up very slightly, then die off for a while.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/11 00:14:23


Post by: Mario


 warboss wrote:
What's a "lifestyle" game?


I think games like Warhammer and MTG. Games that thrive on having a lot of "expansions" and additional boxes that you can buy over years. In contrast with regular boardgames that you buy once and never have to think about buying additional stuff again. They may have one/two expansions but generally the base game is made to work on its own.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/11 01:53:01


Post by: ced1106


Yep -- not sure what the standard term is.

Essentially, it's designed to demand so much of a gamer's time and money, that he will seriously commit to only one such game (or few such games). The commitment to play the game is measured in years, hundreds -- possibly thousands -- of dollars, and multiple purchases. Sometimes, the purchases are for the same SKU (eg. random booster or starter packs), sometimes for different products that not all players have to buy (eg. miniatures for different armies), and usually centered around recent releases (eg. latest Magic block). Sometimes, the time commitment does not involve gameplay (eg. painting, collecting). The gamer's purchases typically follow the release schedule of the game. Often, to play a game session, each player will bring their own game components. The manufacturer is expected to have a regular release schedule of new product, and sometimes will have tournaments and prize support. (In contrast, a boardgame with multiple expansions is typically purchased only by the owner and the gaming group may be satisfied with playing without the latest expansions.)

This is not a rigorous definition (because BGG'ers seem to need that sort of thing), but, to continue what Mario says, it's a convenient description to separate games which have a much higher money and time commitment than other games, typically one-off boardgame purchases. (fwiw, While RPG's have a regular time commitment, they often don't have the expected monetary purchases. At the same time, go ahead and ask my friend about his commitment to all those pricey True Dungeon tokens...


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/11 19:19:14


Post by: Elbows


Yep, it's also a pretty unique thing for wargamers. Warhammer 40K is the "Madden" or tabletop wargames. I'd argue that Warhammer gamers are far more likely to play only Warhammer (or AoS) and maybe one or two other GW specialist games, but are less likely to be a generic wargamer (i.e....play and game anything). Same thing goes for some FFG titles.

By contrast, a wargamer outside of these major IPs is more likely to play a number of different genres, IPs, eras, etc.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/11 20:21:22


Post by: Genoside07


Yeah but with GW games it seems to "improve" what you already have... Example the terrain GW releases.. I don't throw away the old but just add to what I already have
to make a better looking table. Same goes with buying another unit.. or hero.. I can customize to what I want.. But FFG with the Star Wars Licences will get in the trap
of how many versions Darth Vader they can sale before having to over hauling everything to force the customers to buy a new one..

As for the Customer service being laid off, I seen a request for a missing component from the imperial specialist box set, was sent in early Tuesday morning.. No change,
Just marked as received same as right after I sent it out... Maybe next week I will get a reply.. Don't want a guy with a missing arm. But if no one is assigned to do that..
Could be weeks before I hear something.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/11 20:32:55


Post by: ced1106


Cubicle 7 announced their WH40K RPG (EDIT: Age of pre-WH40K) : https://www.beastsofwar.com/fantasy/cubicle-7-age-of-sigmar-roleplaying-2020/

FFG announced their Keyforge Genesis supplement : https://www.beastsofwar.com/news/fantasy-flight-keyforge-genesys-roleplaying/

The supplement was no doubt in the product pipeline after the RPG department did their work. WotC used freelancers for their D&D books, so maybe FFG will turn to that business model instead of hiring a department.

I'm also now speculating that the loss of the GW license (FFG also did not renew their Android license with WotC) has something to do with the layoffs. No license means fewer projects, so less personnel. Or cost-cutting means getting rid of the licenses and personnel.

The only FFG games I bought recently were Runewars and Keyforge, both at 2/3 off through Amazon. Seems that Amazon may be the only survivor of this increase in boardgames...


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/11 21:32:43


Post by: Grot 6


 Galas wrote:
TBH is not like they ever did anything worthwile. Nothing will be missed. With the exception of people that has lost their jobs. That sucks.


What are you talking about? The 40K stuff was top drawer and as resource material is still as good, if not better then what Cubical 7 is trying to etch out. If anything it only enhances why FFG's 40K material is the best in the business.

The Fantasy carry over was a good child of the old Hogshead line, which, to be fair is also the best in the business carried over from the old Warhammer Fantasy game.

The Star Wars game, while it does have it's issues is streamlined enough that new RPG'ers can pick it up, run with it, and actually do something for their own groups. I'm still a sucker for WOTC's D20, but there are quite a few who like it for the simplicity.

As to the IA line- They killed themselves with the scale creep that lead to Legions. They didn't do themselves any favors when they started cranking out the vary same minis from IA to Legion Scale.

You want to know what game I worry about, and am sorry to have called it earlier when it came out? Marvel Crisis Protocol. I was really hoping that it would have lasted longer then just a release and a fart in the car.

FFG is and always has been an iffy company. We bitched about them with the Mansions of Madness stuff when they started getting too stupid with it, and then the company sucks as far as continued support. They are too big for their britches, and continue to show from Descent, up and including X wing and Legion why they shouldn't have been trusted with these properties. Hell, if anything HASBRO themselves should have held fast, cranked out the production of the games and called it a day.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/11 22:08:01


Post by: AngryAngel80


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Galas wrote:
TBH is not like they ever did anything worthwile. Nothing will be missed.
I wondered how long it'd take someone to post a "and nothing of value was lost" post.

Classy.



I think he means more that with how FFG runs, you are living on borrowed time with all their games. Take from it what you can, and then move on as it has roughly the life span of a house fly. I mean I love some of their games, but it's about getting enough to run before it goes belly up and moving on. So things were lost of value, but if you wanted it to have long term support, then nothing of value was lost as it was never going to last.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/11 22:37:15


Post by: BrianDavion


AngryAngel80 wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Galas wrote:
TBH is not like they ever did anything worthwile. Nothing will be missed.
I wondered how long it'd take someone to post a "and nothing of value was lost" post.

Classy.



I think he means more that with how FFG runs, you are living on borrowed time with all their games. Take from it what you can, and then move on as it has roughly the life span of a house fly. I mean I love some of their games, but it's about getting enough to run before it goes belly up and moving on. So things were lost of value, but if you wanted it to have long term support, then nothing of value was lost as it was never going to last.


that may be the case with their board games, but their RPGs useally have had a pretty good run of it.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/11 22:55:57


Post by: warboss


ced1106 wrote:Yep -- not sure what the standard term is.

Spoiler:
Essentially, it's designed to demand so much of a gamer's time and money, that he will seriously commit to only one such game (or few such games). The commitment to play the game is measured in years, hundreds -- possibly thousands -- of dollars, and multiple purchases. Sometimes, the purchases are for the same SKU (eg. random booster or starter packs), sometimes for different products that not all players have to buy (eg. miniatures for different armies), and usually centered around recent releases (eg. latest Magic block). Sometimes, the time commitment does not involve gameplay (eg. painting, collecting). The gamer's purchases typically follow the release schedule of the game. Often, to play a game session, each player will bring their own game components. The manufacturer is expected to have a regular release schedule of new product, and sometimes will have tournaments and prize support. (In contrast, a boardgame with multiple expansions is typically purchased only by the owner and the gaming group may be satisfied with playing without the latest expansions.)

This is not a rigorous definition (because BGG'ers seem to need that sort of thing), but, to continue what Mario says, it's a convenient description to separate games which have a much higher money and time commitment than other games, typically one-off boardgame purchases. (fwiw, While RPG's have a regular time commitment, they often don't have the expected monetary purchases. At the same time, go ahead and ask my friend about his commitment to all those pricey True Dungeon tokens...


Mario wrote:
I think games like Warhammer and MTG. Games that thrive on having a lot of "expansions" and additional boxes that you can buy over years. In contrast with regular boardgames that you buy once and never have to think about buying additional stuff again. They may have one/two expansions but generally the base game is made to work on its own.


Thanks. That's not what I was expecting. I would have thought it was referring to a type of game a certain category/demographic of player would be drawn too (i.e. A professional adult and parent vs say a 14 year old).


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/12 00:13:58


Post by: ced1106


Thanks -- I'm not sure what term to use for "lifestyle" game, as it's evidently not clear enough. Anyway...

> Yeah but with GW games it seems to "improve" what you already have...

That's an interesting point, although Warhammer Fantasy fans will say otherwise.

Nah, I kid. GW's approach with 40K looks to be to have familiar enough tropes (eg. orcs) then add a layer of IP so they control their product (eg. gretchin, not goblins). They weren't able to do that with Warhammer Fantasy (so lost (?) sales to third parties), and put out a new "edition / version" as Age of Sigar. With 40K, I picked up some models of orcs and gretchins, and they still fit in with my 20+ year old models. I know GW drops specific models here and there (who still has their genestealer cult limousine?), but, while you're expected to buy new rulebooks, at least they're not dropping the entire line like FFG does (hello, incomplete BattleLore 2nd edition). While some second editions were fine (many BGG'ers liked the "app as DM" with Mansions of Madness 2.0), others were more ambivalent (I like Arkham Horror 3rd edition, but won't bother picking it up since I have Eldritch Horror).

I guess the closest way to "improve" for FFG is to focus on novelty for its "exploration" games, like AH, Descent, IA, and LotR??? That is, with these games, exploring new material is part of the enjoyment of the game. So, after getting used to the encounters and boss baddie of the first expansion, you shove the expansion back in its box, and buy another expansion for new content. Unfortunately, FFG (nor the rest of the base game plus expansions model) never quite got across that you could just buy any expansion with the base game and play. Come to think of it most "lifestyle" games don't use this model (while starter packs, introductory decks, and starter sets exist for Magic and 40K, they're there to assist new players, rather than act as "core" sets.)

> But FFG with the Star Wars Licences will get in the trap of how many versions Darth Vader they can sale before having to over hauling everything to force the customers to buy a new one..

Agreed. WotC does this with Magic, and is doing it with D&D. Magic players seem to be okay with this business model, but not necessarily RPG'ers, although they've been exposed to it since the OGL days. Anyway, to add to Geno, BGG'ers were not happy with FFG's "buy the cards all over again" situation with X-Wing 2.0, Nor were IA players enthusiastic when they found that FFG used a different scale model for Darth and Luke.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/12 03:03:39


Post by: H.B.M.C.


That is very much not WH40k.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/12 03:11:02


Post by: BrianDavion




Stormcast Eternals, Primaris Marines, same thing right?


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/12 06:21:49


Post by: Adeptus Doritos


 ced1106 wrote:
Cubicle 7 announced their WH40K RPG (EDIT: Age of pre-WH40K) : https://www.beastsofwar.com/fantasy/cubicle-7-age-of-sigmar-roleplaying-2020/


Pffft. And how long have they sat around and done nothing with Wrath & Glory?

I suppose we can look for yet another mediocre, flavorless RPG with the most watered-down generic options for your character (As long as GW makes the model for it). Nothing like having to 'discuss with my GM' any important details like why my Chosen of Chaos Undivided should be mechanically different from a Knight of Slaanesh. I've always wanted to make my own RPG rules and just throw $60 at a book that could have condensed its mechanics down into a pocket-sized pamphlet.

FFG did more to enhance the lore of 40k than GW could achieve in 2 decades.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/12 06:37:13


Post by: Gadzilla666


 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
 ced1106 wrote:
Cubicle 7 announced their WH40K RPG (EDIT: Age of pre-WH40K) : https://www.beastsofwar.com/fantasy/cubicle-7-age-of-sigmar-roleplaying-2020/


Pffft. And how long have they sat around and done nothing with Wrath & Glory?

I suppose we can look for yet another mediocre, flavorless RPG with the most watered-down generic options for your character (As long as GW makes the model for it). Nothing like having to 'discuss with my GM' any important details like why my Chosen of Chaos Undivided should be mechanically different from a Knight of Slaanesh. I've always wanted to make my own RPG rules and just throw $60 at a book that could have condensed its mechanics down into a pocket-sized pamphlet.

FFG did more to enhance the lore of 40k than GW could achieve in 2 decades.

Agreed. Those ffg 40k books are great. Especially when you realize how easy the different games can be mixed. Rogue Trader + Black Crusade = heretic marine space pirates.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/12 07:03:30


Post by: Adeptus Doritos


Gadzilla666 wrote:
Agreed. Those ffg 40k books are great. Especially when you realize how easy the different games can be mixed. Rogue Trader + Black Crusade = heretic marine space pirates.


Yes, exactly this. Now I want to do a campaign in Black Crusade based around this idea.

I saw it like this:

Deathwatch and Black Crusade are where you get your Marine fix.

Only War is what you use when you need your enemies to have some tanks and military wargear.

Rogue Trader is for your ships and your weird critters, with some world-building tools.

Dark Heresy is where you get the creepy little oddities and conspiracies.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/12 07:11:55


Post by: AngryAngel80


BrianDavion wrote:
AngryAngel80 wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Galas wrote:
TBH is not like they ever did anything worthwile. Nothing will be missed.
I wondered how long it'd take someone to post a "and nothing of value was lost" post.

Classy.



I think he means more that with how FFG runs, you are living on borrowed time with all their games. Take from it what you can, and then move on as it has roughly the life span of a house fly. I mean I love some of their games, but it's about getting enough to run before it goes belly up and moving on. So things were lost of value, but if you wanted it to have long term support, then nothing of value was lost as it was never going to last.


that may be the case with their board games, but their RPGs useally have had a pretty good run of it.


Well it was the case for them until it wasn't. Still seeing how other things were treated to expect more from any of their systems is I think foolish at this point. That does have me very cautious about what I buy from them anymore to be sure.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/12 08:51:16


Post by: Albertorius




Indeed. C7 took over the Wrath & Glory RPG from Ulisses Spiele, printed a revised corebook and ill be going forward with it, and also released the new edition of FRP some time ago. That one should have been released already (and I'm actually interested on seeing how it will be), but it's delayed.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/12 08:55:56


Post by: Adeptus Doritos


 Albertorius wrote:
Indeed. C7 took over the Wrath & Glory RPG from Ulisses Spiele, printed a revised corebook and ill be going forward with it, and also released the new edition of FRP some time ago. That one should have been released already (and I'm actually interested on seeing how it will be), but it's delayed.


While it sucks that we keep derailing this (and I'll fix that, a little) 2 questions:

Has C7 indicated any desire whatsoever to expand on Wrath & Glory? Because the last time I looked at the book, it was... pretty basic. And not 'basic' like a tool kit RPG, but like... basic like your options were generic and bland with little to work with at all. I mean, are we seeing anything expanded like adversaries, equipment, campaign books, etc.? Because as it is, the best possible use for the book (other than birdcage liner) is... well, maybe crutch heavily on the old FFG material and try to kind of make it work with the new system.

...Did the FFG RPG game for Star Wars include any settings other than the movie eras? Or was it generic?


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/12 10:46:06


Post by: WUWU


 Grot 6 wrote:
 Galas wrote:
TBH is not like they ever did anything worthwile. Nothing will be missed. With the exception of people that has lost their jobs. That sucks.


\You want to know what game I worry about, and am sorry to have called it earlier when it came out? Marvel Crisis Protocol. I was really hoping that it would have lasted longer then just a release and a fart in the car. \


Marvel Crisis Protocol has been out for, what, 4 months? There's already something like 12 SKUS released for it. No one talks about it on Dakka because this is a GW fanboy page, and the only time people here can stop arguing over whether a Sister of Battle should be flashing more skin, is to take a dump on whatever is happening at FFG.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/12 10:55:07


Post by: Adeptus Doritos


WUWU wrote:
Marvel Crisis Protocol has been out for, what, 4 months? There's already something like 12 SKUS released for it. No one talks about it on Dakka because this is a GW fanboy page, and the only time people here can stop arguing over whether a Sister of Battle should be flashing more skin, is to take a dump on whatever is happening at FFG.


Not sure if you've noticed, but the very core reason this page exists is for GW games, the rest are sort of tacked on. I mean, you're practically rolling your eyes at people in a cigar lounge for wanting to smoke cigars instead of a pipe or a cigarette.

Additionally, to call this page a GW fanboy page, well... there's a comical amount of people here who spend more time whinging about what GW does than fanboying it.

Also, there have been like 3-4 attempts at a Marvel superhero skirmish games, and they've been overall... interesting for a brief time and forgotten. This one is coming in at what appears to be the end of the superhero hype. Also, unlike the Batman Miniatures game- it doesn't bring anything new to the table other than 'hey it's a skirmish but with Marvel heroes'.

And we also take a dump on whatever is happening at Privateer Press and CMON, too.

That doesn't mean every turd we've curled off is completely unjustified.



Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/12 11:55:14


Post by: WUWU


I've been on this forum for almost 11 years now, I'm well aware of the inane arguing that goes on. But nothing rallies the collective here more, it seems at times, is their palpable insecurity over other games and companies that aren't GW.

You don't like proprietary dice, got it. Neat. Some people don't want to role 75d6

We've all spent way too much money on Space Marines here, to use in what is an objectively terrible set of rules, so I get a bit of fiery brand loyalty, but using the discussion on Dakka as some kind of barometer for the gaming world at large and referring to something as "a fart in the car" is just silly.

It's okay for other games to exist, and it's unfortunate when they sometimes fail. I don't see much justification in piling on them further



Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/12 12:05:38


Post by: Albertorius


 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
 Albertorius wrote:
Indeed. C7 took over the Wrath & Glory RPG from Ulisses Spiele, printed a revised corebook and ill be going forward with it, and also released the new edition of FRP some time ago. That one should have been released already (and I'm actually interested on seeing how it will be), but it's delayed.


While it sucks that we keep derailing this (and I'll fix that, a little) 2 questions:

Has C7 indicated any desire whatsoever to expand on Wrath & Glory? Because the last time I looked at the book, it was... pretty basic. And not 'basic' like a tool kit RPG, but like... basic like your options were generic and bland with little to work with at all. I mean, are we seeing anything expanded like adversaries, equipment, campaign books, etc.? Because as it is, the best possible use for the book (other than birdcage liner) is... well, maybe crutch heavily on the old FFG material and try to kind of make it work with the new system.

...Did the FFG RPG game for Star Wars include any settings other than the movie eras? Or was it generic?


So far they've only announced that they will be releasing all the supplements and adventures Ulisses Spiele announced, so that's two campaigns and at least one additional sourcebook, IIRC. After that we'll see. Thing is, C7 is... notoriously slow moving, so it might take a while.

As to the FFG's SW RPG, almost everything is from the OT era, with some dabbling into the rise of the Empire times, but mostly during the original trilogy. They released a new trilogy starter box and some Clone Wars/Republic stuff, but that's it.

OTOH, with all the stuff alread released, it's trivially easy to stat anything you might need from any era, excepting anything related with the Vong. Which might be for the best, all told.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/12 12:15:24


Post by: Adeptus Doritos


WUWU wrote:
It's okay for other games to exist, and it's unfortunate when they sometimes fail. I don't see much justification in piling on them further



I do, provided it's laying out reasons that could very well be the reason they failed. Failed games don't often happen because a bolt of misfortune from the skies struck them by some random chance. It's usually because of bad business practices, poor QC, lack of support, bringing nothing new to the table, etc. Ideally, someone has a lesson to learn.

I also believe that every human being has a right to say why they like or dislike something. And none of these game companies are our pals, they just make products we like.

I'm 100% all right with other game companies existing. I want them to exist. GW gets away with some of the scummier/dumber ideas because... no one out there is giving them a real run for their money. Someone needs to do that, but it's going to take a bit more than "battle game with toy soldiers and dice" to do that. From what I can see of the Marvel game, it looks like... a skirmish game with superheroes. Well, I've got one of those already. Two, if you want me to go dig up my Heroclix collection.

One thing to consider- not all of us have massive disposable income, or time. As much as I'd like to try a large number of games- that's time and money. And as much as we'd like to claim that these other miniatures games are 'cheaper than 40k', at the end of the day that's still a lot of money. And then there's learning a new rule system, and then painting.

Oh, and the other issue- it doesn't matter how great a game is, I'll tell you like I tell the two dozen people on the planet that play Horus Heresy- no amount of 'better than 40k' or 'super awesome and well balanced' is going to make a damn if 1 person in my city plays it. I don't really have a lot of time to go out and 'recruit' new players (which means I have to talk them into spending quite a bit of money and giving up their own time to try something).

I've spent a good part of 2018 and 2019 cleaning out various miniatures and games from my collection for hilariously cheap- all because 'other games exist' and I got talked into trying them, only to discover that it wasn't worth the investment because I don't have the money to invest in it, I don't have the time to dedicate to it, and I would be playing against the same 2 people any time I got a game.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Albertorius wrote:
As to the FFG's SW RPG, almost everything is from the OT era, with some dabbling into the rise of the Empire times, but mostly during the original trilogy. They released a new trilogy starter box and some Clone Wars/Republic stuff, but that's it.


Honestly, thanks. I appreciate the info. You saved me a trip to a store to flip through the book and then put it back on the shelf. That's like, two dollars in gas.

 Albertorius wrote:
OTOH, with all the stuff alread released, it's trivially easy to stat anything you might need from any era, excepting anything related with the Vong. Which might be for the best, all told.


While I'm all about doing a few creative changes here and there, I wouldn't buy a car that requires me to push it down a hill to get it going. When/if they expanded on this, I'd consider it. But until then, it can occupy shelf space at a store.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/12 12:19:17


Post by: warboss


WUWU wrote:
I've been on this forum for almost 11 years now, I'm well aware of the inane arguing that goes on. But nothing rallies the collective here more, it seems at times, is their palpable insecurity over other games and companies that aren't GW.

You don't like proprietary dice, got it. Neat. Some people don't want to role 75d6

We've all spent way too much money on Space Marines here, to use in what is an objectively terrible set of rules, so I get a bit of fiery brand loyalty, but using the discussion on Dakka as some kind of barometer for the gaming world at large and referring to something as "a fart in the car" is just silly.

It's okay for other games to exist, and it's unfortunate when they sometimes fail. I don't see much justification in piling on them further



Weird. I've had long discussions about niche games many times over my 14 years in dakka and I haven't played GW games regularly since becoming unhappy with the direction they took starting in 6th edition. Have you tried visiting subforums other than news and rumors? That's where the bulk of the non-GW discussion happens. If the Marvel game is as popular as you seem to be inferring, I can't wait to see it on the next ICV2 top selling games list! I haven't looked much into it as I haven't seen it being played locally but hopefully both of those will change.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Albertorius wrote:

Indeed. C7 took over the Wrath & Glory RPG from Ulisses Spiele, printed a revised corebook and ill be going forward with it, and also released the new edition of FRP some time ago. That one should have been released already (and I'm actually interested on seeing how it will be), but it's delayed.


Did they actually print the revised code book? I know they announced it and I followed the news last year but both the updates and my own interest seemed to wane in the latter part of 2019. I was actually planning on picking it up depending on the nature/scope of the changes.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/13 01:44:26


Post by: Arbitrator


 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
 ced1106 wrote:
Cubicle 7 announced their WH40K RPG (EDIT: Age of pre-WH40K) : https://www.beastsofwar.com/fantasy/cubicle-7-age-of-sigmar-roleplaying-2020/


Pffft. And how long have they sat around and done nothing with Wrath & Glory?

I suppose we can look for yet another mediocre, flavorless RPG with the most watered-down generic options for your character (As long as GW makes the model for it). Nothing like having to 'discuss with my GM' any important details like why my Chosen of Chaos Undivided should be mechanically different from a Knight of Slaanesh. I've always wanted to make my own RPG rules and just throw $60 at a book that could have condensed its mechanics down into a pocket-sized pamphlet.

FFG did more to enhance the lore of 40k than GW could achieve in 2 decades.


I don't know if WANGs problem was having to tie itself to the models so much as attempting to appeal to that very vocal minority who insisted FFG should have just one one corebook and that it's dumb they can't have a Marine, a Commissar, an Eldar, a Tau Battlesuit and Ork in the same party. Low and behold, WANG let you do that with all the depth of a puddle to the surprise of- well, nobody but the people asking for it obviously. Is there a good game buried under all that mess? Maybe, but it sure doesn't seem like C7 wants to dig for it anymore than Ulisse did. Considering how threadbare the kitchen sink approach of the corebook was, you'd think they'd be ready and waiting to shovel splats out constantly - it certainly set itself up for just that. I'd blame it on low sales, but if we use DriveThruRPG as a wonky measurement (to say nothing of physical copies) it was outselling WHFRP 4E for about two months or so. 4E also received the barest Warhammer Community coverage compared to WANG that had a dedicated webcomic and other trimmings. Word of mouth was pretty damning though, which probably played a part.

I do, provided it's laying out reasons that could very well be the reason they failed. Failed games don't often happen because a bolt of misfortune from the skies struck them by some random chance. It's usually because of bad business practices, poor QC, lack of support, bringing nothing new to the table, etc. Ideally, someone has a lesson to learn.


The rest of your post summaries pretty well why you only have those 1-2 other people to play with. The vaaasstt majority of people into wargaming get into it because of 40k. Most people will have invested hundreds/thousands before they even discover other games. By that point they already have a GW collection they can go back to, know people will be playing it, and don't want to 'risk' other games for that reason. GW is in a very unique position of possessing a monopoly in a niche hobby that happens to have people willing to spend A LOT of disposable income due to the social nature of the game. Most people seem to generally acknowledge GW can't write rules for crap and are overpriced, but won't dip their toe elsewhere because they're so afraid of being the only duckling in the pond... but if they stick with 40k, they know they'll be safe forever, especially after 8th proved all GW has to do is make some self-aware memes and people will come crawling back no matter what.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/13 01:51:52


Post by: BrianDavion


WUWU wrote:
I've been on this forum for almost 11 years now, I'm well aware of the inane arguing that goes on. But nothing rallies the collective here more, it seems at times, is their palpable insecurity over other games and companies that aren't GW.

You don't like proprietary dice, got it. Neat. Some people don't want to role 75d6



you realize the complaints about propretary dice have largely been within a context of RPGs right?
Trust me, I don't criticized FFG's using propertirty dice out of a loyalty to GW. if anything it's loyalty to the old WOTC SWSE that does it.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/13 07:32:22


Post by: Albertorius


Adeptus Doritos wrote:
 Albertorius wrote:
OTOH, with all the stuff alread released, it's trivially easy to stat anything you might need from any era, excepting anything related with the Vong. Which might be for the best, all told.


While I'm all about doing a few creative changes here and there, I wouldn't buy a car that requires me to push it down a hill to get it going. When/if they expanded on this, I'd consider it. But until then, it can occupy shelf space at a store.

Do you play many RPGs? Because statting stuff to play is basically what you do every time you design an adventure. Plus, Star Wars eras are basically palette changes and trapping swaps anyways, so if you know the era you can simply take the OT or CW era stats and use it with as little as simply changing the name...

Anyways, anything you could ever really need to play Star Wars is already there, it's not exactly as if there's a dearth of conversions to any system you can care to mention, from Storyteller to Forged in the Dark, and that's not even counting the official ones.

warboss wrote:
 Albertorius wrote:

Indeed. C7 took over the Wrath & Glory RPG from Ulisses Spiele, printed a revised corebook and ill be going forward with it, and also released the new edition of FRP some time ago. That one should have been released already (and I'm actually interested on seeing how it will be), but it's delayed.


Did they actually print the revised code book? I know they announced it and I followed the news last year but both the updates and my own interest seemed to wane in the latter part of 2019. I was actually planning on picking it up depending on the nature/scope of the changes.

Looking at it... no, they actually haven't yet. The Ulisses core is out of stock and they have so far released a revised pdf, but it appears they have yet to print it.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/13 07:43:20


Post by: Monkeysloth


C7 is a small company and takes quite some time to get things done. Also I wouldn't be surprised if they had to slot 40k work after AoS and WHFRPG due to the somewhat sudden change. I also think I read somewhere they were redoing most of the art to be less cartoony.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/18 18:37:20


Post by: Grot 6


WUWU wrote:
 Grot 6 wrote:
 Galas wrote:
TBH is not like they ever did anything worthwile. Nothing will be missed. With the exception of people that has lost their jobs. That sucks.


\You want to know what game I worry about, and am sorry to have called it earlier when it came out? Marvel Crisis Protocol. I was really hoping that it would have lasted longer then just a release and a fart in the car. \


Marvel Crisis Protocol has been out for, what, 4 months? There's already something like 12 SKUS released for it. No one talks about it on Dakka because this is a GW fanboy page, and the only time people here can stop arguing over whether a Sister of Battle should be flashing more skin, is to take a dump on whatever is happening at FFG.


IA had the same thing going for it... and FFG no longer supports the game.

As to the expansions- post something about this "12 expansion" business. THIS game is DOA otherwise. FFG is KNOWN IN THE INDUSTRY as cash grabbers and snatching up properties with no plan. And we aren't even going to start talking about how FFG literally had these RPG's printing money for them before that infamous "Leadership change" when they picked up Star Wars, and lost the Games Workshop property for both fantasy and 40K. In the end, we are seeing what it is- poor business decisions.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/18 19:08:46


Post by: SeanDrake


 Grot 6 wrote:
WUWU wrote:
 Grot 6 wrote:
 Galas wrote:
TBH is not like they ever did anything worthwile. Nothing will be missed. With the exception of people that has lost their jobs. That sucks.


\You want to know what game I worry about, and am sorry to have called it earlier when it came out? Marvel Crisis Protocol. I was really hoping that it would have lasted longer then just a release and a fart in the car. \


Marvel Crisis Protocol has been out for, what, 4 months? There's already something like 12 SKUS released for it. No one talks about it on Dakka because this is a GW fanboy page, and the only time people here can stop arguing over whether a Sister of Battle should be flashing more skin, is to take a dump on whatever is happening at FFG.


IA had the same thing going for it... and FFG no longer supports the game.

As to the expansions- post something about this "12 expansion" business. THIS game is DOA otherwise. FFG is KNOWN IN THE INDUSTRY as cash grabbers and snatching up properties with no plan. And we aren't even going to start talking about how FFG literally had these RPG's printing money for them before that infamous "Leadership change" when they picked up Star Wars, and lost the Games Workshop property for both fantasy and 40K. In the end, we are seeing what it is- poor business decisions.


LoL IA is what almost half a decade old remind me of the loooooong list of GW cash grab shovelware that has been born and died in that time and in some cases been born and died only to be dug up and then buried again. FF have survived where a lot of the competition has not by being ruthless when a game is not selling or a license is no longer worth it
You are deluded if you think GW's license is worth more than the SW license not to mention the restrictions GW wanted to include in the renewal that would have killed IA and Xwing anyway, besides the 40k rpg's while really good were not exactly making money hand over first for FF.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/18 19:14:07


Post by: Monkeysloth


 Grot 6 wrote:
WUWU wrote:
 Grot 6 wrote:
 Galas wrote:
TBH is not like they ever did anything worthwile. Nothing will be missed. With the exception of people that has lost their jobs. That sucks.


\You want to know what game I worry about, and am sorry to have called it earlier when it came out? Marvel Crisis Protocol. I was really hoping that it would have lasted longer then just a release and a fart in the car. \


Marvel Crisis Protocol has been out for, what, 4 months? There's already something like 12 SKUS released for it. No one talks about it on Dakka because this is a GW fanboy page, and the only time people here can stop arguing over whether a Sister of Battle should be flashing more skin, is to take a dump on whatever is happening at FFG.


IA had the same thing going for it... and FFG no longer supports the game.

As to the expansions- post something about this "12 expansion" business. THIS game is DOA otherwise. FFG is KNOWN IN THE INDUSTRY as cash grabbers and snatching up properties with no plan. And we aren't even going to start talking about how FFG literally had these RPG's printing money for them before that infamous "Leadership change" when they picked up Star Wars, and lost the Games Workshop property for both fantasy and 40K. In the end, we are seeing what it is- poor business decisions.


If FFG was actually that bad they would have been out of business a long time ago. Their issue is they've got a high expectation on returns from products they put out and quickly pull the plug if it doesn't make the money they expect or once it gets below a threshold that they want. I think years in the board game market, where you can release a box and it will sell for a long time with little effort on FFGs part, then release an expansion maybe years later and do the same got their expectation for RPGs and wargames wrong (where you need quick release cycles and community involvement/marketing which keep costs up) as well as KSer changing how board gamers spend their money (FFG use to have little to no competition on the type of games they made 10+ years ago) and they've never really adapted. Even with new leadership which seams to have the same expectations as what the market was 10+ years ago. It will/is starting to affect their reputation and they're going to have to shift expectations or die at some point.

Also RPGs don't print money as we've discussed earlier. Even D&D which is going through a big cultural revival here in the US (being on TV and celebrities playing) doesn't even make enough for Hasbro to ever talk about it separately from WoTC overall performance. I think the only thing that prints money in this industry is MtG and if that ever dies without an adequate replacement you'll have a lot of shops closing down.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/18 19:25:17


Post by: Kirasu


Wrath and glory was probably one of the worst released rpg I’ve seen in ages. Digital only for awhile and took forever to release a physical book which basically reduced its hype to 0 (with people that actually play rpgs).

Then there is a revised book coming out? And no release... the game itself is super simple with very few options. FFG rpgs had their issues with the combat systems but atleast they had content.


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/18 22:24:06


Post by: Dysartes


 Grot 6 wrote:
WUWU wrote:
 Grot 6 wrote:
 Galas wrote:
TBH is not like they ever did anything worthwile. Nothing will be missed. With the exception of people that has lost their jobs. That sucks.


\You want to know what game I worry about, and am sorry to have called it earlier when it came out? Marvel Crisis Protocol. I was really hoping that it would have lasted longer then just a release and a fart in the car. \


Marvel Crisis Protocol has been out for, what, 4 months? There's already something like 12 SKUS released for it. No one talks about it on Dakka because this is a GW fanboy page, and the only time people here can stop arguing over whether a Sister of Battle should be flashing more skin, is to take a dump on whatever is happening at FFG.


IA had the same thing going for it... and FFG no longer supports the game.

As to the expansions- post something about this "12 expansion" business. THIS game is DOA otherwise. FFG is KNOWN IN THE INDUSTRY as cash grabbers and snatching up properties with no plan. And we aren't even going to start talking about how FFG literally had these RPG's printing money for them before that infamous "Leadership change" when they picked up Star Wars, and lost the Games Workshop property for both fantasy and 40K. In the end, we are seeing what it is- poor business decisions.


Erm - is Crisis Protocol even published by FFG? It isn't listed on their website, while searching for it came up with a company called Atomic Mass Games...


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/18 22:59:55


Post by: Monkeysloth


Atomic Mass Games is owned by either Fantasy Flight or Asmodee from everything that's been stated by people. In the reddit thread where people affected by the layoffs were talking this was also mentioned by the former workers as "spinning off Atomic Mass Games was probably the best business decision they've made in a while".


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/19 02:50:49


Post by: Coolyo294


Atomic Mass is wholly owned by Asmodee


Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department... @ 2020/01/19 05:52:59


Post by: schoon


 Kirasu wrote:
Wrath and glory was probably one of the worst released rpg I’ve seen in ages. Digital only for awhile and took forever to release a physical book which basically reduced its hype to 0 (with people that actually play rpgs).

Ummmm. Wrath & Glory was Ulysses and is now Cubicle 7.

I'm not sure how that connects with FFG...