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Not surprised at this at all.

Scrapping Imperial Assault for Legions, X-Wing 2nd, losing the GW licence to Pegasus/Wizkids, buying CMON, and now this.

Speaking of X-wing, one comic shop near me went straight from many games by different brands to strictly Pokemon and Warhammer after 2nd, and edition, and before Asmodee did that mandatory MSRP crap, both Barnes & Nobles had red stickers on most of their newest ships.

It seems that the Marvel minis game was a success while CMON is working on both chibi Avengers and Dragonball. Since those are the cases, I REALLY hope Disney and Funimation/Toei goes the same path as GW; that way, Asmodee can take a REAL HARD LOOK at what it is doing to it's children companies.

X wing remains quite popular here still

 Arbitrator wrote:
What makes this worse is that the Star Wars RPGs aren't available in PDF format officially, meaning whilst most other games these days at least live on in that form, going forward if you don't want to pay £300 to a scalper, your only option are shaky-cam photos.

That'd be the Lucasfilm licensing agreement, where they have a license to produce RPG books, and that means exactly that: Books. Not PDFs of those books.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Arbitrator wrote:
What makes this worse is that the Star Wars RPGs aren't available in PDF format officially, meaning whilst most other games these days at least live on in that form, going forward if you don't want to pay £300 to a scalper, your only option are shaky-cam photos.

That'd be the Lucasfilm licensing agreement, where they have a license to produce RPG books, and that means exactly that: Books. Not PDFs of those books.

Indeed, and it runs counter to every other RPG FFG produces.

As to the popularity, yeah, the SW RPGs have been reasonably popular, enough to split the system. Problem is, once again... Lucasflim Licensing. Let's just say that it all costs a lot of money, and RPGs, even popular ones, are expensive to make, the profit margins are at best "not too bad" (without taking licenses into account) and the development time and people involved are both much higher than other products, so objectively, well, they are a hard sell.

That's sad to hear. Flawed though they were, I enjoyed role-playing in the 40k universe with the FFG books and was sad to see them give up the license when they got a bigger licensed IP fish to fry (Star Wars RPG). I never tried out their Star Wars game as anecdotally I didn't see any local interest and my own waned completely with the nuking of the expanded universe by Disney. Regardless, I feel for the players who like and invested in the game as I was in their shoes back in the Wotc Star Wars Saga edition cancellation days.

How did FFG get the license to reprint the old WEG Star Wars RPGs? That seems like it would've been a licensing challenge, mixed with a limited audience. I was always hoping they'd reprint the related Star Wars Miniature Battle books as well, to play with their Imperial Assault or Legion minis...

 Sqorgar wrote:
How did FFG get the license to reprint the old WEG Star Wars RPGs? That seems like it would've been a licensing challenge, mixed with a limited audience. I was always hoping they'd reprint the related Star Wars Miniature Battle books as well, to play with their Imperial Assault or Legion minis...

Last I checked the Miniature Battle games were easily found on Ebay and Amazon for a few dollars. That was like 2-3 years ago though.

 parakuribo wrote:
buying CMON

FFG or Asmodee don't own CMON. They just have a distribution deal.

 Monkeysloth wrote:

Last I checked the Miniature Battle games were easily found on Ebay and Amazon for a few dollars. That was like 2-3 years ago though.

I've got all three books already (though the miniatures are long lost). I just think it is a cool game that could find a contemporary audience now that Star Wars miniatures are actually easy to find.

 Sqorgar wrote:
How did FFG get the license to reprint the old WEG Star Wars RPGs? That seems like it would've been a licensing challenge, mixed with a limited audience. I was always hoping they'd reprint the related Star Wars Miniature Battle books as well, to play with their Imperial Assault or Legion minis...

Well d6 is a free and open system and and I’m not sure if WEG is even operational at this point. Grab $ from petty cash and throw at current WEG owner, reprint book faithfully.

AngryAngel80 wrote:
Honestly, and this may come off salty, but I used to love FFG. That love has wilted in their current path they've ventured down.

Making my X wing forces useless without spending hundreds in upgrade packs or buying them all over again, killing off other games I enjoyed before they even really felt done ( Conquest ).

They just seem to put out a game, on a very short life clock and I can't trust them anymore so I have to vote with my wallet and walk away.

To put it in a way they can understand, they were supposed to bring balance to gaming, not leave it in darkness and they broke my heart.

If anything they are going down the path in my view of a more flaky GW. Which is probably why some of their IPs aren't doing as well as they once did, people can only be fleeced so much and so often or stung so many times with dying games they just up and cease to support for whatever the reason may be.

I won't touch any of their games outside of single purchase offerings I can love as one and done and I fear for anyone buying heavy into any of their current systems.

To be fair about X-Wing, they handled a transition from a completely analog 1st edition (think 40k with paper codexes etc) to a second edition with digital rules/points about as well as expected. Just need to buy some upgrade packs. The models themselves are fine. It's no worse than 40k (not that that's some high bar to reach), and in fact probably better in that regard. I played a lot of X-wing 1st edition, but my friends lost interest. For me, 40k at least gives me ways to engage with the hobby even when I'm not "playing the game", which is why I put up with the associated bullgak.

Also regarding FFG and X-Wing you have to remember: if for whatever reason they lose the rights to the IP, then the game dies instantly. I'm really wary of getting too deeply attached to any game/system that is produced by someone who is only licensing the IP, and doesn't own it.

The main problem X-Wing faces is just that its a game where people already have far far too much stuff and its still basically in the process of repacking the stuff people already have for 2nd edition. It's the big problem with cards. As soon as there's an edition change, people become instantly aware just how much bloated the rules have become.

 LunarSol wrote:
The main problem X-Wing faces is just that its a game where people already have far far too much stuff and its still basically in the process of repacking the stuff people already have for 2nd edition. It's the big problem with cards. As soon as there's an edition change, people become instantly aware just how much bloated the rules have become.

Sounds like the description of many a wargame, particularly the GW offerings.

The Star Wars RPG has been around for years, and you can get SW RPG stuff on MM during their sales. Not a difficult guess that the demand has dropped to the point where the RPG license is no longer profitable.

Dunno how many of you are on BGG, but FFG's made all sort of small, dumb or irritating decisions that eroded company loyalty the boardgame community, anything from MAP to a game that comes with random components. Their "lifetime" game model is to release more "lifetime" games to the market than the market can support and eventually find an evergreen product while leaving customers with a trail of dead games and "never again" mentality. Seems that that's their business model with their game divisions. The loss of the GW and Android licenses hasn't helped, and, at least around that time, FFG's more popular games were based on licenses. I *guess* that, with Keyforge becoming more popular, it's the right time for FFG to look at the books and re-evaluate their costs.

FFG certainly did have the Star Wars license when the time was right -- as in, right before those awful movies. And their apps which take on the role of a dungeon master were well-received for Mansions of Madness, Lord of the Rings, etc. I guess they're doing fine with their Disney-free Arkham Horror line of games.

FFG isn't the only company that over-expands and sees who survives. While nobody is indispensable, some divisions are more dispensable than others.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I'd've thought a Star Wars RPG would be a license to print money, but apparently not.

TLJ and ROS saw to that.

But aside from that...how do they expect to sell books if they never print them? Seriously, I can never find them in brick & mortar stores, and they're never in stock online.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AngryAngel80 wrote:
To be fair about X-Wing, they handled a transition from a completely analog 1st edition (think 40k with paper codexes etc) to a second edition with digital rules/points about as well as expected. Just need to buy some upgrade packs. The models themselves are fine. It's no worse than 40k (not that that's some high bar to reach), and in fact probably better in that regard. I played a lot of X-wing 1st edition, but my friends lost interest. For me, 40k at least gives me ways to engage with the hobby even when I'm not "playing the game", which is why I put up with the associated bullgak.

Also regarding FFG and X-Wing you have to remember: if for whatever reason they lose the rights to the IP, then the game dies instantly. I'm really wary of getting too deeply attached to any game/system that is produced by someone who is only licensing the IP, and doesn't own it.

Amen to that. X-Wing 1st Edition was one of my absolute favorite tabletop games ever; I haven't even found anyone to play with since 2.0, though. :(

 Kepora wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I'd've thought a Star Wars RPG would be a license to print money, but apparently not.

TLJ and ROS saw to that.

And Solo... And Star Wars Battlefront 1 & 2... and the nuking of the EU... and the open hostility towards long time fans by the creators responsible for all of the above. Yeah, that all didn't help and converted me from a fan who for decades spent hundreds of dollars each year on Star Wars (movies, dvds, miniatures, models, tabletop/rpg games, novels, comics, video games, apparel, and even tchotchkes like my now faded and chipped stormtrooper set of house keys) to now when I haven't seen the latest movie and my last SW related purchase was the U-wing by FFG when it came out as the culmination of a steady years long decline.

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
The main problem X-Wing faces is just that its a game where people already have far far too much stuff and its still basically in the process of repacking the stuff people already have for 2nd edition. It's the big problem with cards. As soon as there's an edition change, people become instantly aware just how much bloated the rules have become.

Sounds like the description of many a wargame, particularly the GW offerings.

It's a disease that's infecting the industry, but I'd cite FFG as patient zero. Cards for this, cards for that, but a different format so you need two different sizes of sleeve. Tokens and widgets up the wazoo too.

I'm all for a game aid that makes life easier, but I've currently got enough v1 X Wing tokens to supply a moderately large tournament and were I to buy in to V2, which is something I've been considering recently, I'd end up with more that have been redesigned but still functionally do the same thing.

Warboss has a point, Disney could be hurting from previous failed adventures like battlefront and movies, so Disney is squeezing tighter on the things that still makes them money. Got to meet the profit goals some how...

Having licensed product is a double edged sword.. just look at GW when the Lord of the Rings sales dropped off..

And with lay offs most of the time is when a company doesn't meet sales goals with investors, so they lay off people to help meet those goals.. sad but seen it way to many times...
If someone been with a company more than five years they can be replaced with a entry level job to save money..

 parakuribo wrote:
Not surprised at this at all.

Scrapping Imperial Assault for Legions, X-Wing 2nd, losing the GW licence to Pegasus/Wizkids, buying CMON, and now this..

When did Asmodee, FFG acquire CMON? Heard nothing about it?

Skorne wrote:

 parakuribo wrote:
Not surprised at this at all.

Scrapping Imperial Assault for Legions, X-Wing 2nd, losing the GW licence to Pegasus/Wizkids, buying CMON, and now this..

When did Asmodee, FFG acquire CMON? Heard nothing about it?

They didn't, they just entered into an exclusive distribution deal with them but at the time some people were claiming it meant they had been brought.

https://icv2.com/articles/news/view/42699/cmon-enters-exclusive-north-american-distribution-deal-asmodee-na?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Asmodee already handled distribution (appallingly) for CMON internationally so not a massive change.

The digital side is shutting down. I'm sure it has to do with realignment, and trying to juggle all of those licensed properties that FFG is probably hemorrhaging money right now. What, with 10 different Star Wars games, The Marvel game, the Lovecraft games, and all of the side salads in between, FFG is likened in my area as throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks.

I would like to get the games, but their idea of selling 1 ship for 20+ dollars just for a fighter, or some of the prices I've seen are absolutely laughable.

I did have Crisis Protocol grow on me though. I would love to get that game if they can keep it in the water, and not sink it. AND, I have been jonesing those Star Wars games. I'd really like to get in on them if they go full blown fire sales

The chuckleheads at FFG can't see the nose on their face as far as I'm concerned. The way WOTC crapped the bed, it's a wonder that FFG didn't take over Dungeons and Dragons as a license, and the rest of the games from floundering Hasbro, who as a toy company- forgot that they were a toy company and decided to become a Disney yes man.

Not a real fan of FFG's business practices, and I would not mind one bit walking in to their company one day and just arbitrarily taking it over. Removed - Rule #1 please My local game store has taken it on the chin on numerous games from them, as they play musical Franchise properties. They still have a good library of Middle Earth and 40K RPG books, that are now unsupported. I might have to go up there and see if the shop will give me them, so I can propery dispose of a bunch of FFG game systems...

 Azreal13 wrote:
It's a disease that's infecting the industry, but I'd cite FFG as patient zero. Cards for this, cards for that, but a different format so you need two different sizes of sleeve. Tokens and widgets up the wazoo too.

That's one of the reasons I've been so hesitant to get back into 40k. I don't want oodles of cards that will be invalidated when the next Codex comes around, and Codices get recycles so quickly these days that it's just not worth it.

I own all the psychic cards from... 5th? 6th? Not sure. They were all invalidated with 7th, and then invalidated again with 8th. Not doing it again.

I stayed away from X-Wing as I didn't like the heavy deck building side of things, and then when X-2 came about I was very glad about that decision. Armada still calls to me though... that SSD...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
It's a disease that's infecting the industry, but I'd cite FFG as patient zero. Cards for this, cards for that, but a different format so you need two different sizes of sleeve. Tokens and widgets up the wazoo too.

That's one of the reasons I've been so hesitant to get back into 40k. I don't want oodles of cards that will be invalidated when the next Codex comes around, and Codices get recycles so quickly these days that it's just not worth it.

I own all the psychic cards from... 5th? 6th? Not sure. They were all invalidated with 7th, and then invalidated again with 8th. Not doing it again.

I stayed away from X-Wing as I didn't like the heavy deck building side of things, and then when X-2 came about I was very glad about that decision. Armada still calls to me though... that SSD...

cards are optional for 40k. IMHO you can proably snag the tactical objectives cards and be done with it. the faction specific cards are just handy cards for your strats (nice to remind you the strat exists and to let your opponent look at the strat without having to swap codexes across the table I guess) and like 11 special tac objective crds can you put into your deck instead.

 Kepora wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I'd've thought a Star Wars RPG would be a license to print money, but apparently not.

TLJ and ROS saw to that.

Except that Rogue One, Solo and The Mandalorian are pretty much how Star Wars RPGs are run. If I never see another Skywalker it would be too soon.

FFG's problem is that every book after the core has a drop off in sales--like every other RPG line. FFG's strategy of 3 core books works to negate this, but does upset others. In a post-Disney Star Wars wold there is only so much you can publish before risking a second edition that alienates a portion of you customers, as the X-Wing crowd have already commented on.

The multiple core books route was annoying. it worked for 40k due to the varying power levels but it's hard to justify to players that A Jedi, a Smuggler and a Bounter Hunter all have too widely varying power levels to work as a group together in star wars.



I mean thats a picture of the main cast of SW rebels, you've got 2 jedi, a former soldier, a Mandalorian, and a smuggler.

but FFG wants to tell you they can't do all three things together in one core game? sounds like a problem with FFG.

 Azreal13 wrote:

It's a disease that's infecting the industry, but I'd cite FFG as patient zero. Cards for this, cards for that, but a different format so you need two different sizes of sleeve. Tokens and widgets up the wazoo too.

Well, let's be honest for a moment.

Star Wars Legion, as it was executed, was stupid. Oh, boy! A wargame with... two factions. And a year later we got... two more. So now you show up to an event or tournament and you've got 10 people playing, 8 of which are playing Empire and using the exact same units. And yeah, that's another thing- how many kits does each faction have? And I'm sure what we'll see next is the First Order and a few slightly modified rebels reboxed as the Resistance.

A massive expanded universe, and as far as I know only the stuff AFTER RotJ was made non-canon. That leaves quite a bit to work with.

No customization, no modularity, no real options. No customizable, "your dudes" units. Just a push-fit box of mediocre models. If I wanted to play with monopose, non-customizable models... I'd play Infinity, because their models at least look cool and the game requires some actual strategy.

It's not a bad game, compared to some of the crap out there... somewhere, I guess. It's an okay boredom killer but the game stops being as interesting after you play it a couple of times. But the tokens and the weird dice irk me, and then you gotta use the super special measuring sticks. And you need like 2 boxes of the dice to actually play without rolling half your attack and then rolling again.

X-Wing was fun, but Jesus... couldn't they just... I dunno, maybe find a way to execute this? And X-Wing seems to be completely forgotten. I suppose they took up CMON's business model for wargames- dump some crap out there, add a couple of things, bail on it and make something new.

A massive expanded universe, and as far as I know only the stuff AFTER RotJ was made non-canon.

you'd be wrong on that everything from the EU was made non canon, however disney's been borrowing heavily from the old EU. which is why we have thrawn and TIE Defenders popping up in SW Rebels, but details are changed, the TIE Defender is now Thrawn's baby, and introduced much earlier (the defender was a pre-yavin design now) as opposed to a design spearheaded by Admiral Zarian and designed sometime between hoth and endor.
Then there's the new movie, which I'll spoiler tag so as not to spoil it for anyone whose not seen it.

BrianDavion wrote:

A massive expanded universe, and as far as I know only the stuff AFTER RotJ was made non-canon.

you'd be wrong on that everything from the EU was made non canon, however disney's been borrowing heavily from the old EU. which is why we have thrawn and TIE Defenders popping up in SW Rebels, but details are changed, the TIE Defender is now Thrawn's baby, and introduced much earlier (the defender was a pre-yavin design now) as opposed to a design spearheaded by Admiral Zarian and designed sometime between hoth and endor.
Then there's the new movie, which I'll spoiler tag so as not to spoil it for anyone whose not seen it.

Spoiler:

borrows from a few early bits of the EU, namely Dark Empire and the whole Glove of Darth Vader books

I don't know if you'd noticed, but the main plot hook of The Last Jedi was directly snagged from The Old Republic: Knights of the Fallen Empire.

I'm confused by the confusion along the first page.

The articles says they're shutting down a video game studio, not their tabletop RPGs.

 LordofHats wrote:
I'm confused by the confusion along the first page.

The articles says they're shutting down a video game studio, not their tabletop RPGs.

And word coming from inside the studio is that it was more far-reaching than that.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

A massive expanded universe, and as far as I know only the stuff AFTER RotJ was made non-canon.

you'd be wrong on that everything from the EU was made non canon, however disney's been borrowing heavily from the old EU. which is why we have thrawn and TIE Defenders popping up in SW Rebels, but details are changed, the TIE Defender is now Thrawn's baby, and introduced much earlier (the defender was a pre-yavin design now) as opposed to a design spearheaded by Admiral Zarian and designed sometime between hoth and endor.
Then there's the new movie, which I'll spoiler tag so as not to spoil it for anyone whose not seen it.

Spoiler:

borrows from a few early bits of the EU, namely Dark Empire and the whole Glove of Darth Vader books

I don't know if you'd noticed, but the main plot hook of The Last Jedi was directly snagged from The Old Republic: Knights of the Fallen Empire.

I didn't notice that, was that the season 2 plot cause I stopped when they finished season 1. I did not enjoy that storyline at ALL.