How do?

Bit of a perennial favourite thread. But hey, we’re in a new decade Dakka, so let us dust off this old chestnut, and give it a bit of a polish.

As the title says, what is, so far as you are aware, the oldest kit still in service for a given range? And when, to the best of your knowledge, did it come out?

Here’s my brains on the matter.

Space Marines

Space Marine Bikers. Proper, proper old these. Genuinely, 2nd Edition old. That’s older than many a Dakkanaut. They pre-date everything else in the Space Marine range. How they’ve not been revisited since (unlike the Attack Bike) I honestly don’t know.

Necrons
N
The humble (and getting weedier with every Codex) Necron Warrior. Came out a little bit before the Destroyer and Monolith.

Craftworld Eldar

OK. I had to check GW’s store for this.... It’s the Eldar Warlock! Three out of the five designs may actually be Rogue Trader. Ooop, tell a lie. Those still in production are apparently 2nd Ed - source. Now, if someone with a better memory or research skills could confirm whether they pip the Space Marine Bike to the post, I’m fairly sure we’ll have the ‘winner’. And no Space Marine players. That doesn’t allow us to whine about not being updated properly.

Tyranids

99% sure that’ll be the Termagants/Hormagants (used to be a mixed box). Oh how they need it. Models are still largely serviceable. But I’ve hated the two part heads ever since I first built them. And I built my local store’s samples, that means I’ve almost certainly hated the two part heads longer than any other Dakkanaut. Probably. So there. It’s therefore my lawn, and you’re the damn kids!

Dark Eldar

Haha! Trickery! It was Drazhar, but the original model is now a goner, and the replacement still technically available. He’ll just cost you £165.00.

Right, that’s as much as I can be arsed with right now. Over to you.

No. Wait.....I just remembered.....

Space Wolves

Ragnar. Sodding. Blackmane. The youngest Wolf Lord ever is GW’s oldest model still in service. 1992. 1992? I’d barely been banished from Scotland at that point!

Bikers are from 2nd Ed old? Did not think they were THAT old.

Learn something every day, I guess.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Bikers are from 2nd Ed old? Did not think they were THAT old.

Earliest I can find them on The Stuff of Legends is the 1997 Annual - but I swear they're earlier than that.

Now, if someone with a better memory or research skills could confirm whether they pip the Space Marine Bike to the post,

SM bike was 1996. Some of those Eldar warlocks date from 1994. Still younger than Ragnar Blackmane, though.

I have the 2-part Citadel Miniatures Catalogue from 1991, the 3rd part from 1993 and the '95-'96, '97 and '99 Annuals, as well as most issues of WD from that period. Anything else you want checking?

Do the bikes still come with the flat connection for the rider’s torsos? I thought they were re-cut at some point to the modern rounded ones.

Space marine bikes underwent a minor conversion around 4th I believe - the backpack is a modern one, not the 2nd ed one with the little reactor vent in the middle https://www.sprubitz.co.uk/space-marine-backpack-back-pack-mkii-2012-p.asp

I'm not sure why they chose to modify just that part, but there you go.

The oldest unmodified plastic kit is the vyper. They added the Eldar heavy weapon frame to the box, but the sprue itself is unchanged from ~95.

Ragnar is the oldest miniature in production (I've still got my original lead pewter version), but technically his double flag pole backpack was replaced in 3rd with a poleless one, so the modern model is not really original.

The next oldest (I can't remember what date was stamped on their tabs but I think it was 93) is the avatar, Phoenix lords, warp spiders and warlocks which were all made around 93. The Eldar codex was published in 94, which is also the same year the space Wolves were released.


All in all, the Eldar have the most models from 2nd ed and all of them are unmodified from their original incarnation.

 Nevelon wrote:
Do the bikes still come with the flat connection for the rider’s torsos? I thought they were re-cut at some point to the modern rounded ones.

They don't have the flat torso attachment anymore. Iirc the wheels originally came on separate sprues, too. The same wheels were shared by the Ork Buggy, I think. However the bike design is basically identical to the 2nd Ed one.

I think a couple of the Servitor sculpts are older than the 2nd Ed bike, although they're finecast now, rather than metal. The "Armor Through the Ages" features sculpts that have been around since Rogue Trader.

The Space Marine Boxnaught is essentially the same model as the 2nd Ed era one/s. The major change is the Auto-Launchers, which are spindly compared to the original metal ones (which looked much better).

I think it is the land raider for us.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Ragnar. Sodding. Blackmane. The youngest Wolf Lord ever is GW’s oldest model still in service. 1992. 1992? I’d barely been banished from Scotland at that point!

I'd bet good money he gets the Primaris treatment with their update.

For csm probably the zerkers and or defiler.

Berzerkers by a country mile. Can’t quite recall if they were just before or just after 3rd, but Defiler for sure wasn’t until 3.5 Codex.

I think, perhaps, just before 3rd Ed, as their pistols are the bulkier design?

Berserkers were released with the first 3rd ed chaos codex.

Nothing in the Ork army is very old as even the boyz and grotz were upgraded recently.

Id say gazghkull is the oldest Ork model, but he's about to be updated as well (and he's only about 20 years old).

It's actually pretty mind boggling that the craftworld eldar not only have the oldest minis, but have so many.

Avatar
5x phoenix lords
2x warlocks
Warp spiders
Vyper
Falcon

They have the two oldest plastic kits

Probably the metal Deffkopta (Gorkamorka) or Boyz (3rd ed) kit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hellebore wrote:
Nothing in the Ork army is very old as even the boyz and grotz were upgraded recently.

Boyz are from 1999 I believe. They received an updated sprue with a heavy weapon and Nob added. The actual Boyz didn't change though.

What is the single oldest model mold still in use right now?

Ragnar, I think.

Regardless of the backpack change, he’s from 1992.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Probably the metal Deffkopta (Gorkamorka) or Boyz (3rd ed) kit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hellebore wrote:
Nothing in the Ork army is very old as even the boyz and grotz were upgraded recently.

Boyz are from 1999 I believe. They received an updated sprue with a heavy weapon and Nob added. The actual Boyz didn't change though.

The question is the oldest kit still in service. You can't use the sculpture as a justification. GW likes to keep designs around, or things would change aesthetically all the time. The warlock design is rogue trader (warlock with witchblade 3 looks identical to warlock with witchblade 2 but one was released with rogue trader and one with 2nd ed).

You're saying 'whsts the oldest design style'.

Hellebore wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Probably the metal Deffkopta (Gorkamorka) or Boyz (3rd ed) kit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hellebore wrote:
Nothing in the Ork army is very old as even the boyz and grotz were upgraded recently.

Boyz are from 1999 I believe. They received an updated sprue with a heavy weapon and Nob added. The actual Boyz didn't change though.

The question is the oldest kit still in service. You can't use the sculpture as a justification. GW likes to keep designs around, or things would change aesthetically all the time. The warlock design is rogue trader (warlock with witchblade 3 looks identical to warlock with witchblade 2 but one was released with rogue trader and one with 2nd ed).

You're saying 'whsts the oldest design style'.

Not exactly. If the sprue for the Boyz remains unchanged and they only added a sprue to the box then that can make them very old.

 Imateria wrote:

Hellebore wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Probably the metal Deffkopta (Gorkamorka) or Boyz (3rd ed) kit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hellebore wrote:
Nothing in the Ork army is very old as even the boyz and grotz were upgraded recently.

Boyz are from 1999 I believe. They received an updated sprue with a heavy weapon and Nob added. The actual Boyz didn't change though.

The question is the oldest kit still in service. You can't use the sculpture as a justification. GW likes to keep designs around, or things would change aesthetically all the time. The warlock design is rogue trader (warlock with witchblade 3 looks identical to warlock with witchblade 2 but one was released with rogue trader and one with 2nd ed).

You're saying 'whsts the oldest design style'.

Not exactly. If the sprue for the Boyz remains unchanged and they only added a sprue to the box then that can make them very old.

That's true, and that's what they did with the vyper and falcon and heavy weapon sprue.

The Ork boy though we're recut completely to add nob and heavy shoota parts and sell them in boxes of 10 instead of the original 16 basic boyz

I think for Guard it's Catachan. Not 100% sure though. Yarrick might be a contender though. I think Straken, Harker, Creed, and Kell all came out during 4th Ed with the original metal Cadian Company Command squad (the Commissar models might be from that time too).

I can recognize most of Rogue Trader through 3rd Ed from my collecting habits, but there's still plenty of gaps, and I don't know what was released/halted release during late 3rd through 4th ed.

Termagaunts are WAY older than the current hormagaunts. Hormagaunts at least have a single head part not a split head which drives me nuts with Termagaunts!


That said, honestly, besides the split head Termaguaunts have really weathered their age surprisingly well. Even after the two big shifts in tyranid design asthetics.

Back when GW gave them two or three additional not-in-kit weapons it was more of a pain that you couldn't get spike rifles and the like. However since GW pulled back from that the Termagaunt only suffers with its split-head-personalty.

Edit - actually the biovore is pretty old and was just finecast converted and was still in metal before that (I'm also convinced that the pyrovore was a replacement that simply got named something else - especially as for a close-combat flamer its cannon is REALLY badly shaped for the job and would look far better as a long ranged artillery - its even got the "sporemine" lumps in its udders?).
The warrior kit is also pretty old, however they have updated it with some new parts ,but I believe the overall design is still of a similar generation to the Termagaunt.

Red Terror also comes from that generation of models as well.

Guard: catachan Infantry (3rd edition)
SM: rhino (bikes and landspeeders were recut)
CSM: Fabius Bile, bikers
Eldar: the many collected above
Orks: deffkopta (late 2nd edition)
Nids: gaunts/warriors
Wolves: ragnar
DA: Azrael
BA: tycho
GK: stern
Tau: kroot
Necrons: warriors
Inquisition: inquisitors and henchmen

Everything else is 4th edition or later.

For Imperial Guard?

Technically, it’s the Basilisk Cannon itself. Not the chassis, just the Cannon. To the best of my knowledge, that’s also a 2nd Ed hold over.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Orks is 100% the Deffkopta.

The current Ork aesthetic is solid 3rd Ed. Deffkopta is from Gorkamorka, which was a 2nd Ed affair.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
For Imperial Guard?

Technically, it’s the Basilisk Cannon itself. Not the chassis, just the Cannon. To the best of my knowledge, that’s also a 2nd Ed hold over.

Yeah, the basilisk set comes with a chimera chassis sprue, the tank accessories sprue, and a special little sprue for the gun and deck assembly. The first one I got had the gun sprue in a different color plastic from the rest of the sprues.

For a whole model, there's so many floating like single or double-model blisters, if I were to take a guess it'd be something like "Cadian with Plasmagun".

Hellebore wrote:

 Imateria wrote:

Hellebore wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Probably the metal Deffkopta (Gorkamorka) or Boyz (3rd ed) kit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hellebore wrote:
Nothing in the Ork army is very old as even the boyz and grotz were upgraded recently.

Boyz are from 1999 I believe. They received an updated sprue with a heavy weapon and Nob added. The actual Boyz didn't change though.

The question is the oldest kit still in service. You can't use the sculpture as a justification. GW likes to keep designs around, or things would change aesthetically all the time. The warlock design is rogue trader (warlock with witchblade 3 looks identical to warlock with witchblade 2 but one was released with rogue trader and one with 2nd ed).

You're saying 'whsts the oldest design style'.

Not exactly. If the sprue for the Boyz remains unchanged and they only added a sprue to the box then that can make them very old.

That's true, and that's what they did with the vyper and falcon and heavy weapon sprue.

The Ork boy though we're recut completely to add nob and heavy shoota parts and sell them in boxes of 10 instead of the original 16 basic boyz

So? They’re the same mould. I buy an Ork boy from 1999 and it is IDENTICAL to an Ork Boy now. Therefore they’re old AF. You are the one using an arbitrary reason to claim that they’re anything but ancient.

It’s not though.

Shootas used to be separate pieces, now they come moulded onto the right arm piece.

Add in the additional bits and bobs, and whilst elements were carried over, it remains an updated kit.

Otherwise, we’d have to count the Space Marine Tactical Squad for the same reason.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
For Imperial Guard?

Technically, it’s the Basilisk Cannon itself. Not the chassis, just the Cannon. To the best of my knowledge, that’s also a 2nd Ed hold over.

Yeah, the basilisk set comes with a chimera chassis sprue, the tank accessories sprue, and a special little sprue for the gun and deck assembly. The first one I got had the gun sprue in a different color plastic from the rest of the sprues.

For a whole model, there's so many floating like single or double-model blisters, if I were to take a guess it'd be something like "Cadian with Plasmagun".

I don't think the double blisters are though, at least not the Cadian ones. I've got an old copy of the 3rd Ed rulebook and, while it has plastic Catachans showcased, it still uses the metal leather armoured Cadians with the Starship Troopers-like helmet and giant metal plates as pauldrons.

Basalisk Cannon is a possibility. I bought a lot on eBay of some old Guard vehicles, including a Basalisk with the old Chimera chasis. There's another guy in the group with a modern one. I could compare his Basalisk to mine.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It’s not though.

Shootas used to be separate pieces, now they come moulded onto the right arm piece.

Add in the additional bits and bobs, and whilst elements were carried over, it remains an updated kit.

Otherwise, we’d have to count the Space Marine Tactical Squad for the same reason.

The Shootas are moulded onto different arm pieces, 8 right, 2 left I believe. The additional bits and bobs are Nob and heavy weapons options. That’s it. There aren’t ‘elements’ carried over. The models are identical.

Tactical marines received a completely new kit with the latest kit, no? They received a lot more than just a few bits and bobs. The entire kit was redone.

Presumably then the Falcon and Vyper fall into this Boyz category as they received extra heavy weapons also? Which I find bizarre because it literally has ‘1997’ printed on the sprue.

Still - if you only want oldest, the Deffkopta is the oldest.

Ork Deffkopta (aka Dregmek Blitzkart) still offered in metal, yet :+) Wonder if they are all remnants of the original production, or if GW keep a Grot somewhere toiling over a hot lead pan and drop mould :-))

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It’s not though.

Shootas used to be separate pieces, now they come moulded onto the right arm piece.

Add in the additional bits and bobs, and whilst elements were carried over, it remains an updated kit.

Otherwise, we’d have to count the Space Marine Tactical Squad for the same reason.

The Shootas are moulded onto different arm pieces, 8 right, 2 left I believe. The additional bits and bobs are Nob and heavy weapons options. That’s it. There aren’t ‘elements’ carried over. The models are identical.

Tactical marines received a completely new kit with the latest kit, no? They received a lot more than just a few bits and bobs. The entire kit was redone.

Presumably then the Falcon and Vyper fall into this Boyz category as they received extra heavy weapons also? Which I find bizarre because it literally has ‘1997’ printed on the sprue.

Still - if you only want oldest, the Deffkopta is the oldest.

The sprue was recut and they decided to use some of the same designs. It is, by definition not the same kit. It uses some of the same parts from another kit but that doesn't make it the same kit.

The Falcon heavy weapons are on a separate sprue so they could be used across every Eldar unit. They didn recut the Falcon sprue. As you point out, it still says 1997.

The Ork boy sprue doesn't say 2000

This guy

is still on sale as part of the 'Armour Through The Ages' set and appears in the first Citadel Miniatures Catalogue from 1991. So, older than Ragnar. He comes with a new-style backpack these days, though, if that matters.

Hellebore wrote:

The sprue was recut and they decided to use some of the same designs. It is, by definition not the same kit. It uses some of the same parts from another kit but that doesn't make it the same kit.

The Falcon heavy weapons are on a separate sprue so they could be used across every Eldar unit. They didn recut the Falcon sprue. As you point out, it still says 1997.

The Ork boy sprue doesn't say 2000

If Boys gaining boss nob and heavy weapons is a new kit, so too is the Falcon gaining heavy weapons. Separate sprue or not the kit is different (as different as Ork boys).

I kind of agree. But, the main Falcon sprues remain the same as they ever were. This is why I said the Basilisk cannon is the oldest entry in Imperial Guard - but only technically, as it’s chassis received a revamp around......6th Ed, I think? May have been earlier. But definitely a different sprue.

Either way, oldest Ork kit is the Deffkopta by a year or two.

Oldest Eldar kit is joint between the three Warlock sculpts.

Ooooh.

Chaos Daemons.

It’s Belakor. At a mere, what, 16ish years old? The rest of the range has had quite the refresh over the years, oddly sporadic as it was.

 Overread wrote:
Termagaunts are WAY older than the current hormagaunts. Hormagaunts at least have a single head part not a split head which drives me nuts with Termagaunts!

They came out at the same time. In the same box.

 Polonius wrote:
Nids: gaunts/warriors

Warriors got completely recut to include parts for the Tyranid Prime as well as all the weapons they were missing (boneswords, lashwhips, devourers and I think spinefists).

 Polonius wrote:
Tau: kroot

+Devilfish, Hammerhead

Fire Warriors should count too as all they've done with them is add a different head only a lunatic would use and those useless shotgun options.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
What is the single oldest model mold still in use right now?

Though not produced in some time, the malleus terminator inquisitor rules refer to the 1989 inquisitor model.

I'm not sure if the chimera (1995) or basilisk (1996) have been recut.

LoftyS wrote:

 Polonius wrote:
Tau: kroot

+Devilfish, Hammerhead

Fire Warriors should count too as all they've done with them is add a different head only a lunatic would use and those useless shotgun options.

Um no, the current FW kit is 100% a resculpted kit from the ground up. They are not in any way the same as the kit that came out in 2001.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

A.T. wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
What is the single oldest model mold still in use right now?

Though not produced in some time, the malleus terminator inquisitor rules refer to the 1989 inquisitor model.

I'm not sure if the chimera (1995) or basilisk (1996) have been recut.

They both have in 2008, though as MDG points out the gun on the Bassie is the same sprue.

 Overread wrote:
Termagaunts are WAY older than the current hormagaunts. Hormagaunts at least have a single head part not a split head which drives me nuts with Termagaunts!

But... the current hormagaunts do have a split head. Just like termagants.
Both of them came out at the same time, February 2001.

The only current version of either that comes with a non-split head is the lower detail, 2 part termagants, that come in the 5 model box. I think those first came out a few years afterwards, in the Battle for Macragge starter box.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:


Tactical marines received a completely new kit with the latest kit, no? They received a lot more than just a few bits and bobs. The entire kit was redone.

Not 100% sure about that. they may have been but the differance between the kits are pretty minimal. I've noted before that before Primaris Marines, Space Marine design had almost stagnated as GW tried to make all the kits interchangable.

the kits where still decent but GW couldn't really step up their game much with marines (beyond making the details more crisp for example) unless they where willing to move away from the mass interchangability. Primaris Marines represent GW's tenative step in that direction IMHO.

BrianDavion wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:


Tactical marines received a completely new kit with the latest kit, no? They received a lot more than just a few bits and bobs. The entire kit was redone.

Not 100% sure about that. they may have been but the differance between the kits are pretty minimal. I've noted before that before Primaris Marines, Space Marine design had almost stagnated as GW tried to make all the kits interchangable.

the kits where still decent but GW couldn't really step up their game much with marines (beyond making the details more crisp for example) unless they where willing to move away from the mass interchangability. Primaris Marines represent GW's tenative step in that direction IMHO.

The marine kits since 6th were total resculpts. They kept the same aesthetic, but the give away is the reversal of the little nubs/slots used to align the torso halves. If we are talking about age of kits, they are new.

Catachan Infantry Squad are definitely the oldest in the Guard line.

I don't remember if Yarrick's current model was released prior to, or before the 3.5 'dex but it doesn't show up in the Armageddon book.

Then it's most of the Cadian stuff and the Sactioned Psykers (Wyrdvane) except for the Command Squad.

The Catachan Snipers/Heavy Weapon Squad came out at some random point between 3rd and 4th if I remember right.

Catachan Heavy Weapon squad came out after the Cadian one did. Up until that point Catachan players were still using the metal HW teams.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Catachan Heavy Weapon squad came out after the Cadian one did. Up until that point Catachan players were still using the metal HW teams.

And the metal officers, who looked better than the current plastics imo.

 Arbitrator wrote:
I don't remember if Yarrick's current model was released prior to, or before the 3.5 'dex but it doesn't show up in the Armageddon book.

Huh - I thought he came out as part of the campaign support, alongside the current Ghaz model.

Pretty sure he did?

Models redesign, with the heftier klaw featured in the artwork, certainly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for Tau?

It is indeed Kroot, Devilfish and Hammerhead.

Though the Hammerhead did received a repackage to include the Missile array. I think?

Storm guardian upgrade pack? I don't know how old they are, but they look like straight doodoo. I have instead modded mine with DE helmetless heads and resin katanas and shuriken pistol bits.

joewarhost wrote:
Storm guardian upgrade pack? I don't know how old they are, but they look like straight doodoo. I have instead modded mine with DE helmetless heads and resin katanas and shuriken pistol bits.

They were released with the eye of terror campaign in 2003.

Mild threadomancy, but relevant.

Just hours ago. Ragnar’s new model was revealed.

So. Who is now the oldest serving sculpt?

got to be the phoenix lords right ?
The metal maugan ra I bought said Dark reaper exarch on its slotta.. so hes pre-phoenix lord i guess?

You may, genuinely be right.

If some kind Dakkanaut has a stack of old White Dwarfs, could they look into it? Cannot tell if it’s the Warlocks, Warp Spiders or Phoenix Lords?

May be an absolute dead heat like!

It's each of these Servitors
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Grey-Knights-Servitors-with-Multi-melta
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Grey-Knights-Servitors-with-Plasma-Cannon

The left hand ones. The right hand ones with the guns came about with the =][= dexes in the early 2000's.

First appear in the 1992 catalogue

Next eldest appear to be a couple of Eldar Warlocks, which first appear in the 1993 catalogue, along with the Phoenix Lords.

Excellent sourcing and citation! My non-existent hat is genuinely tipped!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
You may, genuinely be right.

If some kind Dakkanaut has a stack of old White Dwarfs, could they look into it? Cannot tell if it’s the Warlocks, Warp Spiders or Phoenix Lords?

May be an absolute dead heat like!

According to the release timeline here: https://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?297915-Games-Workshop-40K-Release-Timeline-(Mk-II)&s=232b9b1acb7685779e93c6ce5af0de41&p=5406149&mode=linear#post5406149
Phoenix Lords + Warlocks were all from around April/May 1994.
Warp Spiders are from March 1994.

There's a disturbing amount of Eldar minis still in production that those Servitors just pip to the post that all came out in 1993.

The Avatar, those aformentioned Warlocks&Phoenix Lords, Warp Spiders and their Exarch

It is an oddity for sure.

On balance, it does seem now Jain Zar has been updated, the rest the Phoenix Lords will follow suit.

Avatar remains an excellent sculpt, but definitely in need of a redo (it’s notwtiny compared to Greater Daemons).

Warlocks? Well, that slot has had additions since, so possibly forgivable?

Stop the presses!

I've just noticed the power armoured Njal Stormcaller is still in production.

He first appears in the same catalogue as the Servitors. Not sure on specific dates though. I'll have to have a look through some old WDs (got them all digitally (yo ho ho!)) to find out specifics.

Fair point. I forgot his resculpt was optional Terminator Armour.

Folks, RT is still with us! (Just)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nigel, Roger and Eric all arrived right at the very arse end of Rogue Trader.

So arse end it properly bridged the gap between RT and 2nd Ed.

 Duskweaver wrote:
This guy

is still on sale as part of the 'Armour Through The Ages' set and appears in the first Citadel Miniatures Catalogue from 1991. So, older than Ragnar. He comes with a new-style backpack these days, though, if that matters.

Yessir, still this guy. Njal and the Servitors aren't in the 1991 catalogue.

Just looked through those WD's.

It' was a close call. Njal appears first in the January 1993 issue with the Servitors following 2 months later in the March issue.

We have a winner.

Ah, technical fault. He has no official rules, and appears in no Codex.

Referring to the Thunder Warrior, for clarity.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Ah, technical fault. He has no official rules, and appears in no Codex.

Referring to the Thunder Warrior, for clarity.

Ah, I see. Like current codex? It's possible he'd just be a Marine, rules-wise. I wonder if the model ever had specific rules published in a WD or something.

I don’t recall such. But I do recall it simply being Mk1 Power Armour, without the Thunder Warrior tag?

Either way, it’s not a specific thing in any Codex, so whilst totes old, sadly disqualified.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I don’t recall such. But I do recall it simply being Mk1 Power Armour, without the Thunder Warrior tag?

Either way, it’s not a specific thing in any Codex, so whilst totes old, sadly disqualified.

As Mk1 Power armor I'd just call it a Space Marine. Those are still in use despite how hard GW likes to push the Primaris

Still no specific entry for it, unlike the Bloody Ancient Warlocks.

Yes it’s arbitrary, but it’s my thread, so nyeeeeeeeeeeh

Well, the GW website calls the model a Space Marine in Mk1, so totally field-able by the current codex. So I think your arbitrary arbitration is awry.

Arbitrary is arbitrary

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Arbitrary is arbitrary

And wrong is wrong.

Bunghole

The warlocks still look good too, the servitors...less so!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It is an oddity for sure.

On balance, it does seem now Jain Zar has been updated, the rest the Phoenix Lords will follow suit.

Avatar remains an excellent sculpt, but definitely in need of a redo (it’s notwtiny compared to Greater Daemons).

Warlocks? Well, that slot has had additions since, so possibly forgivable?

I'm very doubtful of that myself. I'd be amazed to see more Aspects or Phoenix Lords.

pm713 wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It is an oddity for sure.

On balance, it does seem now Jain Zar has been updated, the rest the Phoenix Lords will follow suit.

Avatar remains an excellent sculpt, but definitely in need of a redo (it’s notwtiny compared to Greater Daemons).

Warlocks? Well, that slot has had additions since, so possibly forgivable?

I'm very doubtful of that myself. I'd be amazed to see more Aspects or Phoenix Lords.

I think it depends on how well the actual boxes of banshees and Jain Zar did. Given that around where I am there's still like 3 copies of Blood of the Phoenix sitting on the shelf, I'm going to go with "It didn't do well at all" and that therefore GW probably won't be investing in making any more plastic aspect warriors.

Yep, GW gambled on Banshees and may have shot themselves in the foot.

On one hand, plastic Aspect Warriors should have been a hit. On the other hand they put them in a terrible combo box...and then the price at $55 for five toughness 3 models is laughable. On top of all that they chose a poorly performing Aspect which no one is using (which, admittedly might be "why" they chose them as well...pick the weakest Aspect and hope that a new release in plastic is enough to carry the interest). The kit is also pretty minimal and underwhelming.

I'd imagine GW has or had all of the Aspects/Phoenix Lords planned (even if spaced out over years). So, will the market consume Banshees with a voracious appetite? Or will people continue to not play them...and not pay obscene prices for them? This could make GW gunshy about the others. They should have led with a proven unit like Shining Spears, Dark Reapers, etc.

The redoing of Banshees looks to me more a case of doing a product deliberately wrong in nearly every way to convince management that it isn't worth pursuing that path. Like some people intended for it to fail to show the numbers people how bad of an idea it is. The intervew of Rick Prestley about the LOTR game gives a little insight here and there on how GW works internally.

 Galas wrote:
The redoing of Banshees looks to me more a case of doing a product deliberately wrong in nearly every way to convince management that it isn't worth pursuing that path. Like some people intended for it to fail to show the numbers people how bad of an idea it is. The intervew of Rick Prestley about the LOTR game gives a little insight here and there on how GW works internally.

Sounds legit

 Galas wrote:
The intervew of Rick Prestley about the LOTR game gives a little insight here and there on how GW works internally.

Care to share?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Galas wrote:
The intervew of Rick Prestley about the LOTR game gives a little insight here and there on how GW works internally.

Care to share?

Seconded.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Galas wrote:
The intervew of Rick Prestley about the LOTR game gives a little insight here and there on how GW works internally.

Care to share?

Seconded.

Same. I've found a bunch of his interviews and I'd prefer not to read/watch all of them for this "insight".

 Galas wrote:
The redoing of Banshees looks to me more a case of doing a product deliberately wrong in nearly every way to convince management that it isn't worth pursuing that path. Like some people intended for it to fail to show the numbers people how bad of an idea it is. The intervew of Rick Prestley about the LOTR game gives a little insight here and there on how GW works internally.

I mean it stands to reason that the internal office politicking we know off, aka FW subdivision shenanigans and later marginalisation aswell as the nice little intervention in 7th with a certain ELDAR model to not hike price but increase it's capability twofold from higher ups. lend credence to this.

Presume Galas means this one;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X71eQops6mw&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR0w5Va12M0c82PvuAYvk3Esua46KA9-ngB226lgrHUDYUI1fSceCAiYmys

Definitely, but it's always nice to see just a little more evidence of why gw manages to feth things up so spectacularly. Especially the handling of fw in 8th edition.

At the same time if GW were redoing aspects surely they'd have already committed to doing more than one in the several year plan that it takes to develop a model?


That said internal politics is a given - I think made worse by the heavy compartmentalising that GW's general "avoiding leaks" policies resulted in. So that even if departments aren't competing with each other, they aren't always communicating well with each other.

 ingtaer wrote:
Presume Galas means this one;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X71eQops6mw&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR0w5Va12M0c82PvuAYvk3Esua46KA9-ngB226lgrHUDYUI1fSceCAiYmys

Thanks Ingtaer. That was quite interesting. Wish Priestley was still involved with 40k.

Got a TL;DW for us?

 Grimtuff wrote:
It's each of these Servitors
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Grey-Knights-Servitors-with-Multi-melta
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Grey-Knights-Servitors-with-Plasma-Cannon

The left hand ones. The right hand ones with the guns came about with the =][= dexes in the early 2000's.

First appear in the 1992 catalogue

Next eldest appear to be a couple of Eldar Warlocks, which first appear in the 1993 catalogue, along with the Phoenix Lords.

Heh, I own most of the minis on that page in metal...

 ingtaer wrote:
Presume Galas means this one;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X71eQops6mw&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR0w5Va12M0c82PvuAYvk3Esua46KA9-ngB226lgrHUDYUI1fSceCAiYmys

Yeah, that one, thanks!

The price of the banshees etc is pretty terrible but it did make the box look a lot better value!
I expect we'll still see the other aspects, it would be strange for them not to given the timescale involved in making new kits, hopefully it gets gw to look at their prices but I won't be holding my breath on that front!

kingheff wrote:
The price of the banshees etc is pretty terrible but it did make the box look a lot better value!
I expect we'll still see the other aspects, it would be strange for them not to given the timescale involved in making new kits, hopefully it gets gw to look at their prices but I won't be holding my breath on that front!

Honestly, I consider the old kit in metal a better value.

The minis are a similar quality, same poses, same weapon options, but metal which is generally more durable and in my experience easier to blend.

Rhe biggest improvement the new kit has is plastic over finecast. Thats about it.

 Galas wrote:
The redoing of Banshees looks to me more a case of doing a product deliberately wrong in nearly every way to convince management that it isn't worth pursuing that path. Like some people intended for it to fail to show the numbers people how bad of an idea it is. The intervew of Rick Prestley about the LOTR game gives a little insight here and there on how GW works internally.

That sounds incredibly stupid to me. Although stupid is distinct from unlikely sadly.

the_scotsman wrote:

kingheff wrote:
The price of the banshees etc is pretty terrible but it did make the box look a lot better value!
I expect we'll still see the other aspects, it would be strange for them not to given the timescale involved in making new kits, hopefully it gets gw to look at their prices but I won't be holding my breath on that front!

Honestly, I consider the old kit in metal a better value.

The minis are a similar quality, same poses, same weapon options, but metal which is generally more durable and in my experience easier to blend.

Rhe biggest improvement the new kit has is plastic over finecast. Thats about it.

I still use my las pistol banshees, they still look good, still got using my other squad of finecast ones that I like too to be honest. Probably why my blood of the phoenix banshees are in my to do pile. Jain zar should be done soon though.

I think the sales are definitely hurt a bit by the fact the existing sculpts are good. If they'd added Warp Spiders I'd be much more likely to buy more with how bad the current models are once you have 2 already.

I can't ever see myself buying them.

In Australia, guardians are 55$, dire Avengers are 55$, WRAITHGUARD are 55$, the wraithknight is 125$.

They've priced banshees at 90$. 5 T3 models are priced at 2/3rds the cost of a knight ....

Unless they are going to put the price of everything else up, they've priced banshees so uncompetitively that you'd really have to love them to willingly buy them.

Pay 40$ less and get a unit of wraith blades, occupying the same force slot but pointed at twice the amount. They're almost 4x the value due to costing more and being twice the points.

That's insane in any measure

Don't forget the wraiths come with four different weapon options as opposed to three weapon options for the exarch alone...they get a choice of helmets or no helmets though!

kingheff wrote:
they get a choice of helmets or no helmets though!

Yaaay...? I guesss??
Now I know what I paid for

The wraiths are just superior in every way. They look badass, they hit hard and are tough to boot. Its a no contest.

pm713 wrote:
I think the sales are definitely hurt a bit by the fact the existing sculpts are good. If they'd added Warp Spiders I'd be much more likely to buy more with how bad the current models are once you have 2 already.

Heresy. Warp Spiders are perfect sculpts.

Hellebore wrote:
I can't ever see myself buying them.

In Australia, guardians are 55$, dire Avengers are 55$, WRAITHGUARD are 55$, the wraithknight is 125$.

They've priced banshees at 90$. 5 T3 models are priced at 2/3rds the cost of a knight ....

Unless they are going to put the price of everything else up, they've priced banshees so uncompetitively that you'd really have to love them to willingly buy them.

Pay 40$ less and get a unit of wraith blades, occupying the same force slot but pointed at twice the amount. They're almost 4x the value due to costing more and being twice the points.

That's insane in any measure

It really bothers me that 10 Dire Avengers are more expensive than 10 Intercessors. And Dire Avengers used to be 10 in a box for the same price they're currently selling 5 per box.

Welcome to the Warhammer hobby :-)

It really bothers me that 10 Dire Avengers are more expensive than 10 Intercessors. And Dire Avengers used to be 10 in a box for the same price they're currently selling 5 per box.

Oh do not go down that road - some of us remember when you got 5 metal figures in a blister for a fraction of what characters go for now ...

Five space elf raiders for £2.50? Those were the days!

Anyways.....olderest models in each range, eh

Is Blackmane still for sale? He certainly won’t be for long, what with the new box set coming out.

R.I.P. Blackmane, your mould could have drunk, driven, and smoked. But it never did- it never did.

*dabs*

.