I haven't seen very much on this and was wondering what people's thoughts on this are with regard to how it will or will not affect people's gaming experiences. I imagine tournament organizers, particularly the larger ones have a ton of things to consider, as if they needed more headaches...

Seems like a lot of varying opinions on the scale and scope of the spread of the disease, even from official learned sources around the world.

I was hoping to begin a discussion here on people's experiences with how it may or may not change aspects of tournament gaming going forward

I hope that the 4+ feet minimum between myself and my opponent across the table will hamper transmission...what’s that movie, “five feet apart”?
Except for the LVO, we aren’t talking about thousands of people packed into a space, we’ve got a couple hundred at most and typically 40k players aren’t the kind of social globetrotters who are likely to come into contact with COVID-19 anyway.

Not much of a choice here.

Ludic events are banned by law right now.

Adepticon's statement: https://www.adepticon.org/2020/03/05/adepticon-update-on-coronavirus-covid-19-updated-03-05-20/

It hasn't reached my corner of Canada yet, so I felt pretty confident about attending a small local tourney yesterday and another next Saturday.

Do not lick your opponents!

Nurglitch wrote:
Do not lick your opponents!

How else are Space Wolves players supposed to greet their masters opponents?

 greyknight12 wrote:
40k players aren’t the kind of social globetrotters who are likely to come into contact with COVID-19 anyway.

That's a pretty misguided statement. You have know way of knowing that. You can assume that, but others shouldn't.

Theres a sizeable number of people that travel to events throughout the year. They frequently fly around attending these events and airports are one of the worst places to be just behind the actual plane you travel on pumping recycled air throughout the cabin and with basically zero sterile places. I am not suggesting anyone panic but it would be silly to ignore the risk involved in attending ANY large social gatherings whether they be gaming or self help, you can't control where other attendees are traveling to and from or the level of hygiene and safety they are taking. All it takes is one lazy, or stupid person not taking this seriously and all the other folks precautions can go out the window. It's also worth mentioning that gaming has a ton of tactile involvement on shared surfaces. Your touching a lot of stuff. So if you do chose to go you really need to be aware of not touching your face, this sounds easy but it really is not. Also be cautious of how your food is being prepared if your buying it there. I hope everyone is safe and has a great time, but be realistic and aware that there is risk.

TLDR: Don't panic BUT Any large social gathering is going to be a greater risk, that risk multiplies as soon as you factor in traveling. So folks need to decide what level of risk if any is worth it.

Wear your best Death Guard cultist cosplay and be sure to spread Nurgle's gifts as far and wide as possible.

https://newsthump.com/2020/03/04/nation-turns-to-warhammer-players-for-advice-on-how-to-stay-at-home-for-two-weeks/

While the recommended mnemonics, Happy Birthday, and the Alphabet song, are useful for timing out the hand washing, Many popular song choruses also time out between 20-30 seconds, the advised timing for properly washing your hands.
Even the opening verse of Stairway to Heaven, including the first 'Buying the Stairway' can be used.
Could make you seem much cooler than singing 'Happy Birthday' to yourself in a public washroom.

As an Italian I can assure you that it is way more serious than you could imagine.
I'd wager any amount of money that an event like Adepticon is not going forward as it is two weeks from now.

Italy is currently under quarantine (limited freedom of movement, just for unavoidable work, health reasons and to get groceries or meds), all sporting events are banned for a month, not even allowed to be played behind closed doors, bars and restaurants have to close at 6 PM, etc.
All over Europe major events or sporting competitions are being cancelled or played behind closed doors (national leagues, Europa League and Champions League in football, for example).

Unfortunately it appears to be a disease way more contagious than expected.

Indeed.

There are really few chances of adepticon being run this year.

Spoletta wrote:
Indeed.

There are really few chances of adepticon being run this year.

There are few chances of it not being run currently. There are a total of less than 100 cases at the moment in an area larger than europe centered on Chicago with far, far less population density. Unless the state bans it it'll happen. Additionally it's not a huge gathering like even a baseball or basketball game. I have doubts it would meet the threshhold to pull by the city. We'll see what it looks like in 2 weeks.

 Hulksmash wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
Indeed.

There are really few chances of adepticon being run this year.

There are few chances of it not being run currently. There are a total of less than 100 cases at the moment in an area larger than europe centered on Chicago with far, far less population density. Unless the state bans it it'll happen. Additionally it's not a huge gathering like even a baseball or basketball game. I have doubts it would meet the threshhold to pull by the city. We'll see what it looks like in 2 weeks.

The number of cases is not a particularly good metric to use to base proactively cancelling events. Events are being cancelled to avoid the possible spread. Both Seattle and San Francisco just banned large gatherings. Ohio and Indiana are cancelling schools. So Adepticon being cancelled or re-scheduled is certainly in the realm of possibility.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also all college basketball games for March Madness have now banned fan attendance. I don't think Adepticon is happening.

bogalubov wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
Indeed.

There are really few chances of adepticon being run this year.

There are few chances of it not being run currently. There are a total of less than 100 cases at the moment in an area larger than europe centered on Chicago with far, far less population density. Unless the state bans it it'll happen. Additionally it's not a huge gathering like even a baseball or basketball game. I have doubts it would meet the threshhold to pull by the city. We'll see what it looks like in 2 weeks.

The number of cases is not a particularly good metric to use to base proactively cancelling events. Events are being cancelled to avoid the possible spread. Both Seattle and San Francisco just banned large gatherings. Ohio and Indiana are cancelling schools. So Adepticon being cancelled or re-scheduled is certainly in the realm of possibility.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also all college basketball games for March Madness have now banned fan attendance. I don't think Adepticon is happening.

I never said it was. But they were comparing Italy's current condition in an utterly non-sensible way. But yes, certain events are being cancelled while others aren't. Most of the ones closing in a non-high outbreak state (currently) are ones that can afford to close down. Adepticon won't close down unless the state and local government force them too. Financial situations won't allow for it. But barring an outbreak in the area I don't see that happening.

I wouldn’t so much worry about where it’s being held. I’d be more worried about where people are traveling from to get to Adepticon.

We have 1 case here, and colleges and universities are moving to no in school instruction starting next week or the week after. All online. UPenn said it’s students need to be out of dorms by this Sunday.

If I were Adepticon, I’d certainly be planning for a possible cancellation, and the potential for refunds being requested as well, which I know can be tough for this kind of operation.

The rule about no borrowhammer by requiring paint be uniform should be dropped -- as there is good chances many people may be unable to acquire models this summer from either a lack of chinacast or a lack of GW import.

Adepticon ain't gonna happen, the situation is too dynamic and is changing rapidly.

Dukeofstuff wrote:
The rule about no borrowhammer by requiring paint be uniform should be dropped -- as there is good chances many people may be unable to acquire models this summer from either a lack of chinacast or a lack of GW import.

That is your worry? when possibly one of the largest tournaments is going to shut down ad possibly not come back?

The inherent turbulence of the situation makes just that sort of longer term planning a bad idea as a pre-tournament cost or barrier to entry into the tournament. So yeah, that is my suggestion. I never said it was a worry of mine.

 Hulksmash wrote:

I never said it was. But they were comparing Italy's current condition in an utterly non-sensible way. [...]

Utterly non-sensible way? I hope to be wrong for everyone's sake, but we'll see in 10 days where we all stand.

I'm guessing that the European travel ban will affect Adepticon pretty hard. Any idea how many people usually go from Europe to Adepticon?

They didn't ban the UK, however if I were a higher up at GW I wouldn't be sending employees over to adepticon and I'd be figuring out an alternative way to preview mini releases.

Adepticon update as of 11-MAR

https://www.adepticon.org/2020/03/11/adepticon-update-on-coronavirus-covid-19-updated-03-05-20/

UPDATE [March 11th, 2020] AdeptiCon is processing all the latest information around the COVID-19 virus. We are aware of the recent travel ban and that the State of Illinois is considering restriction on large scale events. We remain in direct contact with all the relevant parties and expect to make a final determination shortly. We understand that many of you have questions and concerns, and we appreciate the input and feedback we have received. We ask that you bear with us while we speak with all involved and gather the necessary information required to make a responsible decision. It cannot be stressed enough that our only priority is the safety and health of our attendees, volunteers, exhibitors, and staff. Thank you for your patience while we maneuver this very fluid situation.

Removed.

I feel really bad for adepticon. I've more or less accepted that I won't be going, since I cannot risk brining the virus home due to high risk people in my household.

But they're stuck between a rock and hard place.

 Hulksmash wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
Indeed.

There are really few chances of adepticon being run this year.

There are few chances of it not being run currently. There are a total of less than 100 cases at the moment in an area larger than europe centered on Chicago with far, far less population density. Unless the state bans it it'll happen. Additionally it's not a huge gathering like even a baseball or basketball game. I have doubts it would meet the threshhold to pull by the city. We'll see what it looks like in 2 weeks.

a) small amount of cases is actually good reason to start closing events to ensure it DOESN'T spread.
b) It's 100 cases now. What happens when it starts to grow fast? US is particularly vulnerable to that seeing how getting yourself tested for virus can get you over 3000$ bill from insurance company and workers are given incent to go work while sick. That two combines to make it very easy for virus to spread very fast.

2 weeks is a long time. I would not be betting for event to be held.

Looking at some of the comments in this thread, and I think we really need to remind everyone that there are a lot of people in our community at high risk of DEATH because of this bug. Even if the risk of getting people killed over a game is low, I think we can all agree that it's not worth it.

I actually think the ITC needs to step in and discourage TOs from holding GTs for the next 6 months. Maybe even something as simple as placing a moratorium on counting points within a certain window of time.

@tneva82

It's 100 registered cases in area the size of the entirety of europe. That said we're almost criminally under testing so it's likely much higher. That's more the concern. Our lack of leadership has lead to a shot gun approach to halting the spread has lead to a lot of uncertainty.

The actual tests, if available, don't cost you 3k. That was a misreport. But the lack of testing isn't sadly. Like most of the world there is a major issue with lack of testing and data gathering. I also said THEY would hold it unless the state forces them not to. Why? Because if THEY cancel it they are on the hook for the cost and will disappear. Right now they're holding out for the state to declare something similar to other states limiting gatherings. Then it'll be cancelled But if the state doesn't cancel it then they'll run it. Most people won't show but it's their only option to avoid ruin. Contracts and insurance are a thing.

@Suzuteo

ITC has zero control of the vast majority of the tournament circuit and they shouldn't poke their nose in. Neutrality is their friend. Let governments or the local TO's be the big bads.

100 now yes. How long will it STAY at 100 with people incentived to not go for tests and keep going for work even if they have symptoms? That's recipe for fast spreading(which indeed graph above shows...Which country has sharpest pike up? US...US will make cases in china look like isolated small town in comparison in counts).

It's not what it's now but what it will be.

@Hulksmash
It's straightforward, actually. Just say that no GT or Major between now and the end of August will count for any points in the ITC rankings. Basically, de-incentivize attendance and organization of large events.

They have canceled, see the N&R thread discussing the announcement here:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/786371.page

Yup, IL banned events of 1k or more and suggested cancellation of anything over 250.

The 30k / Horus Heresy guys are pretty crushed . Had to be done with the state guidelines, but all that work! Wish there was a way to "remote" hold it, but that's wargaming (at least where painting/modeling is involved)... it's in-person or nothing.

Yeah, my TT buddies from all over are sad. Especially the ones like me that painted up the full team army

Ugh! I didn't even think of the team tourney prep... what a bummer! You can hopefully use it for next year, right...?

 Suzuteo wrote:
@Hulksmash
It's straightforward, actually. Just say that no GT or Major between now and the end of August will count for any points in the ITC rankings. Basically, de-incentivize attendance and organization of large events.

What that de-incentivizes is usage of ITC for that period and likely from that point on for the events that go forward ignoring the moratorium. Players that want to attend will still attend regardless of losing out on points(which they wouldn't get be not playing anyway) and those that wouldn't attend probably wouldn't have attended because of Covid-19 fear regardless of whether it's ITC supported or not. Either way, it's professional suicide for ITC to just ignore and bully events that happen when that decision should be made by higher authorities or the event organizers.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Suzuteo wrote:
@Hulksmash
It's straightforward, actually. Just say that no GT or Major between now and the end of August will count for any points in the ITC rankings. Basically, de-incentivize attendance and organization of large events.

What that de-incentivizes is usage of ITC for that period and likely from that point on for the events that go forward ignoring the moratorium. Players that want to attend will still attend regardless of losing out on points(which they wouldn't get be not playing anyway) and those that wouldn't attend probably wouldn't have attended because of Covid-19 fear regardless of whether it's ITC supported or not. Either way, it's professional suicide for ITC to just ignore and bully events that happen when that decision should be made by higher authorities or the event organizers.

This guy gets what i was saying

I really don't see how this is the ITC bullying anyone, nor is it unjustified that they do something within their power to discourage social gathering. I mean, seriously, inaction and silence can kill people.

Expected turn of events.

And yeah lol at "ITC bullying". If people go to tournaments anyway they don't mind about ITC points now do they?

ITC tournaments going on is quite a luxury and wouldn't be surprising if quite a many would get banned and cancelled as well. And in that sense if ITC try hard wannabe sport guys are actually interested in "fair competition" they would need to stop points anyway for sake of fairness if some tournaments gets banned and some don't. Distortion of competition and all that.

 Suzuteo wrote:
I really don't see how this is the ITC bullying anyone, nor is it unjustified that they do something within their power to discourage social gathering. I mean, seriously, inaction and silence can kill people.

An organization using their social standing to dictate what someone does or doesn't do is most definitely bullying, especially since their e-peen points is literally the only power they have.

An infection spreading across the globe and some people's main concern is that it could be bullying...
Methinks a dosage of reality and fewer tinfoil hats are needed.

Yes, because we're entirely saying that's the main concern.

Methinks someone needs to try using actual reading comprehension instead of trying to sound pitht.

Just going to say; I have 3 people in my close family (mother, father-in-law, and wife's godmother who is the only family for 400km/250miles other than her parents) that fall under the category of "they will likely die if exposed to this virus". One with cancer and over 60, one with cancer and over 80, and one with heart disease and nearly 80. The "most people get better" thing is absolutely true, and absolutely besides the point. The people that are vulnerable are NOT part of the "most people get better" group. They are part of the "lots of these people die or are incredibly seriously hospitalized" group.

I am lucky to be in Canada where we are taking this thing seriously. 1 case, no deaths in my city, and the city is practically starting to shut down with cancellations, people being instructed to work from home, and everyone seems to be taking things very seriously. I am recommending to our local TO's that they plan on shutting down the event planned for in the next month, and they should plan on shutting down the event planned for in June.

Remember, this virus hits like a tidal wave. Whatever the number of confirmed cases are in your area, the true number of "hidden" cases is likely 27 times that number, which is where you can expect to be 1 week later. If the number is less, the actions your area is taking is working. If the number is more, brace for the G-forces you are about to experience.

 Yarium wrote:
The "most people get better" thing is absolutely true, and absolutely besides the point. The people that are vulnerable are NOT part of the "most people get better" group.

I never understood that argument. They would still be people who are dead, but shouldn't be. It's like people lack empathy or something.

I hope your relatives can weather this storm ok.

I never understood that argument. They would still be people who are dead, but shouldn't be. It's like people lack empathy or something.

A lot of people follow the "only the strong survive" philosophy, and you can see it in comments all across the internet every day.

I don't think its that cruel or cynical. The realities of death are both constant and rare. For most people it isn't "real". They're aware of it, they've probably experienced some measure of it, and might know a friend who lost a parent or may have even lost a grandparent that they only see every other year.

The death of someone close enough to affect your daily life is different though and something people enjoy a willful ignorance of until they have to face it head on. Empathy requires a degree of shared experience and the lack of empathy is often simply a lack of experience required to really understand how much loss can upend daily life. It's not that people don't care. It's just that their minds don't really understand; not REALLY.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Suzuteo wrote:
I really don't see how this is the ITC bullying anyone, nor is it unjustified that they do something within their power to discourage social gathering. I mean, seriously, inaction and silence can kill people.

An organization using their social standing to dictate what someone does or doesn't do is most definitely bullying, especially since their e-peen points is literally the only power they have.

No, it's not. They're not doing this out of malice or self-interest in any way. I have no idea how you could consider this bullying. All ITC would be doing is removing the pressure and temptation for the people who actually care about these points. And yes, I know that many people do not, but competitive play would not exist if nobody cared at all.

And yes, it is the only power they have. That is why I suggested it. Heaven forbid that they do the only thing that they can do during a crisis that affects a large swath of our community.

Hmmm, it is a tricky situation. Some people probably would view a cancellation of events as a way to get more points for themselves, and disregard warnings. I don't envy anyone in a position to make decisions about these things.

The best case would be if all of the local authorities where the events take place were competent and banned events if it was medically needed. However, that is a bit of an idealistic view I guess.

Definitely tricky.

 Suzuteo wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Suzuteo wrote:
I really don't see how this is the ITC bullying anyone, nor is it unjustified that they do something within their power to discourage social gathering. I mean, seriously, inaction and silence can kill people.

An organization using their social standing to dictate what someone does or doesn't do is most definitely bullying, especially since their e-peen points is literally the only power they have.

No, it's not. They're not doing this out of malice or self-interest in any way. I have no idea how you could consider this bullying. All ITC would be doing is removing the pressure and temptation for the people who actually care about these points. And yes, I know that many people do not, but competitive play would not exist if nobody cared at all.

And yes, it is the only power they have. That is why I suggested it. Heaven forbid that they do the only thing that they can do during a crisis that affects a large swath of our community.

Using your social standing and influence to try and affect what people do or don't do in a way that affects the potential livelihood of others is a known intimidation tactic. Intimidation is bullying.

So according to you cities forcing large event cancellations are already bullies...

I don't see how removing the carrot that would tempt point hungry morons from spreading a virus that could kill the medically compromised is a bullying tactic. They can still go whether the ITC gives them their imaginary bag of gold or not.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Suzuteo wrote:
I really don't see how this is the ITC bullying anyone, nor is it unjustified that they do something within their power to discourage social gathering. I mean, seriously, inaction and silence can kill people.

An organization using their social standing to dictate what someone does or doesn't do is most definitely bullying, especially since their e-peen points is literally the only power they have.

What special requirement itc has that they must keep track of virtual points? They are private organization. Itc points aren"t something laws demand must be kept. They can track or not at their decision. You have no right to demand they track

If using their position as tournament circuit organizers to discourage people from prioritizing a fething toy soldier game over a literal worldwide epidemic would be 'bullying', then I guess bullying is completely justified in some situations.

To some, any form of governance is unconscionable. We aren't well-served by listening to them, either.

Thanks to Shelter-In-Place all local tourneys have been canceled. Unfortunately, its also a misdemenor charge to keep the game stores in business so they've all shut down and furloughed thier staff. Rough times ahead for FLGS.

Some people have been buying gifts cards to use when the FLGS comes back, I thought it was an interesting way to show support during this crazy time

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Suzuteo wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Suzuteo wrote:
I really don't see how this is the ITC bullying anyone, nor is it unjustified that they do something within their power to discourage social gathering. I mean, seriously, inaction and silence can kill people.

An organization using their social standing to dictate what someone does or doesn't do is most definitely bullying, especially since their e-peen points is literally the only power they have.

No, it's not. They're not doing this out of malice or self-interest in any way. I have no idea how you could consider this bullying. All ITC would be doing is removing the pressure and temptation for the people who actually care about these points. And yes, I know that many people do not, but competitive play would not exist if nobody cared at all.

And yes, it is the only power they have. That is why I suggested it. Heaven forbid that they do the only thing that they can do during a crisis that affects a large swath of our community.

Using your social standing and influence to try and affect what people do or don't do in a way that affects the potential livelihood of others is a known intimidation tactic. Intimidation is bullying.

There's another word for it. Leadership. It's their software, their business. If someone was using my software in a way that was causing deaths, you can bet that I'd pull it in an instant.

 ChargerIIC wrote:
Thanks to Shelter-In-Place all local tourneys have been canceled. Unfortunately, its also a misdemenor charge to keep the game stores in business so they've all shut down and furloughed thier staff. Rough times ahead for FLGS.

Would you care to elaborate on this? Which state?

 auticus wrote:

I never understood that argument. They would still be people who are dead, but shouldn't be. It's like people lack empathy or something.

A lot of people follow the "only the strong survive" philosophy, and you can see it in comments all across the internet every day.

Quite. Most of the time, they believe they are part of the strong. Until it happens to them.

Thing is, with this pandemic, I believe a lot of people don't realize the real danger here. So unless it really touches them directly, they are ready to think it's not as bad as they are told. Until it happens to them, when it's too late.

There is still a lot of misinformation spreading around. It's not that surprising, honestly. But well, it's a virus we're talking about here. It doesn't care about human politics or beliefs. It will happen, no matter what you think is right. So better cancel those tournaments so that there are more chances to limit its spread.

 ChargerIIC wrote:
Thanks to Shelter-In-Place all local tourneys have been canceled. Unfortunately, its also a misdemenor charge to keep the game stores in business so they've all shut down and furloughed thier staff. Rough times ahead for FLGS.

Some people have been buying gifts cards to use when the FLGS comes back, I thought it was an interesting way to show support during this crazy time

Here at least FLGS can stay open. Gaming area closed but people can come in and buy normally. Seeing gaming area was free it mostly hits on impulse purchases while going to play.

All of my March and April events have been cancelled in accordance with state restrictions. I'm hoping the GT in May isn't affected. Also, hopefully this doesn't affect Gencon.

Unfortunately for myself and others really, in my neck of the woods it's not the tournaments themselves cancelling (as the ones I go to a usually 20-30 people events) but the halls/civic centres/buildings closing down to the virus, and as such even if the event wanted to go ahead, it can't.

Obviously it's different for the very big tournaments, but for smaller scale ones, it's the venues themselves creating the cancellations. Obviously we all would have stopped moving each others models/dice, keptt a distance etc.

Urgh. At least I've got painting I can get on with I suppose...

I've been to a great many tournaments. You cannot keep your distance from people in a venue. You are constantly going by people, bumping people, etc.

Just not touching other peoples' models and dice is not going to stop you from catching an illness.

Its common for people to pick up an illness, minor or whatever, at conventions and gatherings.

 auticus wrote:

Its common for people to pick up an illness, minor or whatever, at conventions and gatherings.

Con crud is a routine. I'm shocked anyone thinks they'd be anything but a hotbed for transmission.

 auticus wrote:
I've been to a great many tournaments. You cannot keep your distance from people in a venue. You are constantly going by people, bumping people, etc.

Just not touching other peoples' models and dice is not going to stop you from catching an illness.

Its common for people to pick up an illness, minor or whatever, at conventions and gatherings.

Especially as you don't even have to touch the people with corona. Who doesn't have to even have any symptoms. Basically anybody is potential carrier and you just need to be for a while in same location nearby. Not single tournament I have been has had tables sufficiently far from each other to be safe. And even if all tables were like 5m from each other still you could get it.

Yeah, "Con crud" is totally a thing, one I've experienced many times lol. All tournies probably will, and should, be postponed until later in the year.

The first hit countries are already well past their peaks / on the downslope of infections, so it won't be indefinite... but now is definitely not the time for a tourney.

 RiTides wrote:
The first hit countries are already well past their peaks...

Their first peaks. There could be additional waves of infection. For example, the second wave of Spanish Flu was more deadly than the first.

From every piece of literature I have read there will be several peaks, not just one. This is the first wave.

Hits peak.
Everyone hides.
Transmission slows.
Everyone comes out of hiding.
Infected people come out of hiding.
New peak.

 Brothererekose wrote:

 ChargerIIC wrote:
Thanks to Shelter-In-Place all local tourneys have been canceled. Unfortunately, its also a misdemenor charge to keep the game stores in business so they've all shut down and furloughed thier staff. Rough times ahead for FLGS.

Would you care to elaborate on this? Which state?

The six county area around the East Bay of California has made defying the Shelter in Place a misdemeanor offense. Hilariously, it specifically calls out dinner parties as an example of what they will will arrest people fo. Most businesses complied quickly, but a couple bars got nailed and then there was the whole GameStop thing. My local FLGS is floating the idea of doing curbside delivery of goods, but with GW and Alliance Distribution out of the picture there won't be much to deliver I think.

Hopefully things will clear up in a few weeks. I don't know what all my neighbors that work in retail are going to do.

 ChargerIIC wrote:
Hopefully things will clear up in a few weeks. I don't know what all my neighbors that work in retail are going to do.

I hadn't heard anything as far back as your post's time to this. Of course, this morning, KFWB newsradio had L.A. Mayor Garcetti announcing/threatening just such ticketing, misdameanor or such action for something similar.

Thanks for replying back to that.

 Brothererekose wrote:

 ChargerIIC wrote:
Hopefully things will clear up in a few weeks. I don't know what all my neighbors that work in retail are going to do.

I hadn't heard anything as far back as your post's time to this. Of course, this morning, KFWB newsradio had L.A. Mayor Garcetti announcing/threatening just such ticketing, misdameanor or such action for something similar.

Thanks for replying back to that.

Its been weird because I'm from Fresno,CA and their shelter in place order doesn't carry the weight of enforcement. The local FLGS owner complied but was upset to find out that according th the rules she can't do curbside delivery, but sporting goods stores can be open to walk in business because guns are 'essential retail'.

https://www.yourcentralvalley.com/news/local-news/sporting-goods-stores-to-reopen-city-of-fresno-declares-them-essential/?fbclid=IwAR08edIjYjGOGAOmlvGCH1IIgYZrMLgRLDDt03bQs8GCYbnvc2MPQEj0hCI

Maybe we should get Warhammer declared essential...

friendly local game stores income is historically 60 percent card player games, and as much as 40 percent warhammer, ish. Those card game nights are now (or soon will be) forbidden by local health law's police powers for the duration.

In other words, they are all going out of business this year, with perhaps a few exceptions that will continue on because a wealthy and eccentric enthusiast doesn't mind losing fistfuls of money.

Dukeofstuff wrote:
friendly local game stores income is historically 60 percent card player games, and as much as 40 percent warhammer, ish. Those card game nights are now (or soon will be) forbidden by local health law's police powers for the duration.

In other words, they are all going out of business this year, with perhaps a few exceptions that will continue on because a wealthy and eccentric enthusiast doesn't mind losing fistfuls of money.

Aka: use FB or w/e media available to contact your local to encourage curbside pickup. I don’t endorse spending huge amounts of money during this, but if you want a local to come back to, try to pitch in a bit. Plus, others will do it. And you don’t need to worry about THEM spending money.

Dukeofstuff wrote:
friendly local game stores income is historically 60 percent card player games, and as much as 40 percent warhammer, ish. Those card game nights are now (or soon will be) forbidden by local health law's police powers for the duration.

In other words, they are all going out of business this year, with perhaps a few exceptions that will continue on because a wealthy and eccentric enthusiast doesn't mind losing fistfuls of money.

The federal government is creating substantial loans that have limited payback requirements or none at all, designed for small businesses (that have business bank accounts apparently). Many of these local businesses do not need to go out of business if ineed they might be, especially if they are applying for and get one of these. I'm wondering if either of the last two companies I worked for are doing this.... I know my current company is.

 Sazzlefrats wrote:

Dukeofstuff wrote:
friendly local game stores income is historically 60 percent card player games, and as much as 40 percent warhammer, ish. Those card game nights are now (or soon will be) forbidden by local health law's police powers for the duration.

In other words, they are all going out of business this year, with perhaps a few exceptions that will continue on because a wealthy and eccentric enthusiast doesn't mind losing fistfuls of money.

The federal government is creating substantial loans that have limited payback requirements or none at all, designed for small businesses (that have business bank accounts apparently). Many of these local businesses do not need to go out of business if ineed they might be, especially if they are applying for and get one of these. I'm wondering if either of the last two companies I worked for are doing this.... I know my current company is.

My old FLGS is going through this. The repayment terms include a clause saying that if you don't make your payments, your assets will be seized. They are trying to do the math to figure out if they can afford to pay back the loan *and* stay in business.

They better plan for at least a year of this stuff.

Dukeofstuff wrote:
They better plan for at least a year of this stuff.

This might be depressingly true. Anyone remember the great FLGS death after Border/Amazon? We've come so far since then and it really felt we were getting close to every city having a couple hobby shops that accept miniature/tabletop gamers and at least a small tourney scene. I'm worried this is going to be the start of a huge slide back.

Well restrictions won't continue year+ non stop. The economy doesn't survive that one. More likely is tightening/easening periodically as needed. Once the infection rate gets into control they can be loosened a bit. Also build up testing capacity/supplies which helps ensuring as tight restrictions aren't needed to allow health system to cope.

Also there's real possibility there won't BE vaccine so this will be something humans will just have to live with. No vaccine for HIV despite decades of study

Which is why its a good thing HIV isn't airborne....

tneva82 wrote:
Well restrictions won't continue year+ non stop. The economy doesn't survive that one. More likely is tightening/easening periodically as needed. Once the infection rate gets into control they can be loosened a bit. Also build up testing capacity/supplies which helps ensuring as tight restrictions aren't needed to allow health system to cope.

Also there's real possibility there won't BE vaccine so this will be something humans will just have to live with. No vaccine for HIV despite decades of study

That's more due to HIV being both highly prone to mutations and actually attacking your white blood cells. It's hard to train your immune system to go after a disease that views it as food.

Yes. But just because something is virus doesn't mean there's vaccine to it. That's the point. We hope there's vaccine for corona and odds are good but there's no quarantee there is or it will be found quickly. Maybe one is available next year. Maybe in 5 years. Or 10 years. Either way restrictions won't be in force non stop until vaccine is out.

tneva82 wrote:
Yes. But just because something is virus doesn't mean there's vaccine to it. That's the point. We hope there's vaccine for corona and odds are good but there's no quarantee there is or it will be found quickly. Maybe one is available next year. Maybe in 5 years. Or 10 years. Either way restrictions won't be in force non stop until vaccine is out.

An industry newsletter I get (I work in pharma) says realistically it's 18-24 months before we have a vaccine. And yes, that's an assumption we can create a vaccine. But the big brains seem to feel that it's doable.

But real progress can be made without a vaccine too. A real, tested treatment, methods to diagnose which patients will experience a cytokine storm, etc.

tneva82 wrote:
Also there's real possibility there won't BE vaccine so this will be something humans will just have to live with. No vaccine for HIV despite decades of study

If we fail to make a vaccine, we just have to force herd immunity.

But if this thing mutates every year like flu, we just have to accept that most human beings just won't live past 60 anymore. Also, most people with asthma, diabetes, etc. won't make it far in adulthood.

 Suzuteo wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Also there's real possibility there won't BE vaccine so this will be something humans will just have to live with. No vaccine for HIV despite decades of study

If we fail to make a vaccine, we just have to force herd immunity.

But if this thing mutates every year like flu, we just have to accept that most human beings just won't live past 60 anymore. Also, most people with asthma, diabetes, etc. won't make it far in adulthood.

As much as this virus impinges on our hobbies I feel we're all going to have to live with the restrictions for the next year or so. The 'herd immunity' strategy was estimated to cost 80,000 lives in little old Ireland. A country with a population of 4.5 million. Which is why the government went into lockdown instead.Scale that up to the larger countries, particularly the US and you'll see why it isn't a great idea. I'd rather wait this out and pick up the pieces afterwards.

Banville wrote:

 Suzuteo wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Also there's real possibility there won't BE vaccine so this will be something humans will just have to live with. No vaccine for HIV despite decades of study

If we fail to make a vaccine, we just have to force herd immunity.

But if this thing mutates every year like flu, we just have to accept that most human beings just won't live past 60 anymore. Also, most people with asthma, diabetes, etc. won't make it far in adulthood.

As much as this virus impinges on our hobbies I feel we're all going to have to live with the restrictions for the next year or so. The 'herd immunity' strategy was estimated to cost 80,000 lives in little old Ireland. A country with a population of 4.5 million. Which is why the government went into lockdown instead.Scale that up to the larger countries, particularly the US and you'll see why it isn't a great idea. I'd rather wait this out and pick up the pieces afterwards.

At some point everyone will catch it in this year 2020 so we might as well start living again once hospitals are less overloaded. Living in fear is not living at all. But yes perhaps public events will from now on be capped to a certain number of people, and for quite some time in the near future.
I also think the planet just wants less humans on it (so what do I know)

Banville wrote:
As much as this virus impinges on our hobbies I feel we're all going to have to live with the restrictions for the next year or so. The 'herd immunity' strategy was estimated to cost 80,000 lives in little old Ireland. A country with a population of 4.5 million. Which is why the government went into lockdown instead.Scale that up to the larger countries, particularly the US and you'll see why it isn't a great idea. I'd rather wait this out and pick up the pieces afterwards.

But the point of lockdowns was never to stay locked down indefinitely. It was to prevent the hospitals from being overrun so that everyone who does get a severe case of the bug has a fighting chance. Because containment has failed, the consensus among experts has always been herd immunity. Some countries, like Sweden, didn't even bother with a lockdown.

Anyhow, the US has done a remarkably good job so far; we like to belittle our healthcare system and its inherent inequities, but unlike Europe, nobody here has gone without the treatment they needed, and that is a very commendable thing. Anyhow, I'm getting sidetracked. The US economy will definitely collapse if we stay locked down for an entire year, which may result in a breakdown of civil order and take the world economy down with it. We're talking potentially tens of millions dead from starvation on every continent. It would probably mean the end of the United States of America. And the newest SIR models say that if pursue this strategy, assuming we miraculously stave off economic collapse, we will only reduce deaths by 9%.

I get the sense that the politicians know this, and they are now trying their best to package the herd immunity strategy in a palatable way (because nobody likes being compared to cattle in a time like this). The idea being that we only isolate the vulnerable population and reopen on a regional basis. We intentionally increase the case load among healthy adults as far as the hospitals can handle, with the goal of getting over this by late summer or so.

Hey folks, kindly stay on topic and take all general COVID-19 related discussion to the following thread: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/784835.page

As noted above, please take any general COVID-19 discussion to the thread linked to in BrookM's post (I had to remove a few posts, but feel free to re-post over there).


On the topic of tournaments - my local group just scheduled something for the first week of September (Labor Day). It will be a small event with only ~20 people. Seems safe enough given the timing hopefully?

For larger events, I'm not sure when they'll be able to be "back on", as the risk of a spike in cases come cold/flu season seems likely...

 RiTides wrote:
As noted above, please take any general COVID-19 discussion to the thread linked to in BrookM's post (I had to remove a few posts, but feel free to re-post over there).


On the topic of tournaments - my local group just scheduled something for the first week of September (Labor Day). It will be a small event with only ~20 people. Seems safe enough given the timing hopefully?

For larger events, I'm not sure when they'll be able to be "back on", as the risk of a spike in cases come cold/flu season seems likely...

Yeah, I am starting to wonder what NOVA's backup plan is.

Its really not very safe given the timing of this stuff. We don't have good summer data yet to see if the disease actually does tamp down in summer the way we expect, so that could mess with things just by uncertainty into the fall, and in the fall, we expect a second wave, so its likely very few state governors will list their essential industries as including plastic toy wargame conventions that MOST legislators never heard of.

My own governor has cut the econmoy off in my state till jun 10th (ironically 1 day after the electoral primaries) .. but the odds he will repoen the economy like throwing a lightswitch are very low. Far more likely, small steps will build up to small groups. Current theory is that large meetings are the worst and most directly bad transmission vectors -- one very sick person in a 1000 person convention has by definition 999 strangers to spread infection into, all of whom go home to random cities, counties, towns, jobs.

By comparison, a haircut shop with only 1 customer inside at a time, can only spread the diesase to a very few people in the same locality.

 auticus wrote:
I've been to a great many tournaments. You cannot keep your distance from people in a venue. You are constantly going by people, bumping people, etc.

Just not touching other peoples' models and dice is not going to stop you from catching an illness.

Its common for people to pick up an illness, minor or whatever, at conventions and gatherings.

Exactly.

facemasks, fresh dice, hand sanitizer, roped off areas. It's all just an illusion of safety. It doesn't fully protect you in any meaningful way when you are in close proximity to lots of people.

So you are faced with a stark choice, sit in a basement for the next x amount of years as this isn't going away any time soon,or take the risk of carrying on with your life.

There is no right and wrong answer and your mileage may vary, personally i choose life.

And I'm not saying don't use best practises; hand sanitizer, masks etc. Just recognize that its not a full proof defense.

In the case of a mask, it isn't there to defend you - it's there to potentially protect others from you...

As for tournaments and corona, take a look at the pictures of the room from the Battle Bunker's events from July onwards. Sure, the tables may be far enough apart that each one is sort of a mini-bubble, but as auticus said earlier in the thread, there's no way to keep apart from people overall to avoid potential infection. As far as the pictures of the room I've seen, no-one seems to be wearing a mask while playing, either.

And the proprietor thinks he's being one of the good guys...

 Dysartes wrote:


And the proprietor thinks he's being one of the good guys...

Another personal attack on the Owner. You seem to have a huge problem with this venue. Its been explained to you twice that at the time of the Tournaments that the current Local authority rules were being followed for "venue" and for the "shop". You ignored factual replies and you continue to gak talk about a subject you know little about.

I was there today, all the processes the Owner took time to explain to you in a lengthy reply were in place and I had way more distance between parties ( it's an old car showroom) than my meal out last night which was in a much smaller building. If you don't want to go to a FLGS or Tournament , its a sensible precaution and I can quite understand it but it doesn't make you right.

Here with cases rising up tournaments and gaming nights are starting to put up mask requirement up. Fair enough. Not huge issue to wear and while it's not bullet proof any help is better.

And yes masks aren't to protect you as such though studies do show some protection. But main point is to reduce infections YOU spread. So you aren't less likely to catch it. If you have virus though others are lot less likely. And of course if everybody wears one you are protected by the virus carrier being less likely to infect others(inc. you).

And it means less likely you need to take test as well which is alone worth wearing it Not pleasant experience(having taken one today).

In my area we have now had I believe two of our 40k players contract corona (and both were at the game store back in may and june playing 40k).

So yeah its a personal choice. Just be aware that your personal choice in this case has some potentially serious kickbacks.

For me a weekend tournament is not worth two to four weeks of being laid up, potentially permanent dialysis, or worst case: death.

Start getting good with tabletop simulator or other things of that nature IMO until this passes or a treatment has been discovered.

 auticus wrote:
In my area we have now had I believe two of our 40k players contract corona (and both were at the game store back in may and june playing 40k).

So yeah its a personal choice. Just be aware that your personal choice in this case has some potentially serious kickbacks.

For me a weekend tournament is not worth two to four weeks of being laid up, potentially permanent dialysis, or worst case: death.

Start getting good with tabletop simulator or other things of that nature IMO until this passes or a treatment has been discovered.

Where are you at Auticus? Because that makes a huge difference. If I was in say Georgia where there still isn't a mask requirement as far as I'm aware I'd be unlikely to leave my house unless it was for food/supplies. However in a place where numbers are dropping and masks are required I'm more ok with going out and even attending a small event (less than 20 people) for a day of gaming.

I'm absolutely not engaging in any in-person wargaming until this is truly through.

I know people who had COVID-19 back in the early stages. One of them, a 30 year old like me, got to the point where he was "sorting out his affairs" aka writing a Last Will and Testament.

On a less immediate to me level, a friend's coworker's sister just died of COVID-19. She lived in Texas and was 30 years old.

Sounds like a sensible approach to take, ph34r.

I live in a region with a heavy mask policy. And the people in my gaming stores that play 40k still wear masks. Around their chins. With their faces exposed.

Because no one tells them what to do.

The current equivalent of wearing pants on your head, wearing your mask on your chin

 ph34r wrote:
I'm absolutely not engaging in any in-person wargaming until this is truly through.

I know people who had COVID-19 back in the early stages. One of them, a 30 year old like me, got to the point where he was "sorting out his affairs" aka writing a Last Will and Testament.

On a less immediate to me level, a friend's coworker's sister just died of COVID-19. She lived in Texas and was 30 years old.

I've known 11 people know that have had it. All have lived which is fortunate. All have expressed what hell it was. They ranged in age from 25 - 45. I'm 43 and diabetic. Additionally as I have posted, most of the gamers in my city think covid is either a hoax to swing the election or to force some islamic mask policy (i'm not making this up this is what some of them were talking about in june in the store), not that big a deal, or just a flu that they'd be fine with. And a good many of them wear masks around their chin or hanging off their ear until the owner of the store comes by and then they put it over their face until he's out of sight. So for me, any games that I choose to do will not be in any store or any indoor venue, it will be outside with just my opponent and using precautions.

IMO tournaments right now are the stupidest thing people could be doing. Pandemics are not a common thing, I think its ok to put the year away and we'll be ok and ready to go next year or whenever a handle has been had on this personally.

 auticus wrote:
IMO tournaments right now are the stupidest thing people could be doing. Pandemics are not a common thing, I think its ok to put the year away and we'll be ok and ready to go next year or whenever a handle has been had on this personally.

I fully agree - regardless of where in the world you are, you shouldn't be running/attending IRL tournaments. People's health is more important than getting a game in. Anyone running events and claiming they're doing the right thing are insane - the right thing to do is to not run the damn events.

Of course, if you want to do virtual ones, knock yourselves out.

It gets a bit pathetic when people tell others they are stupid for ignoring govt advise and then tell them they are stupid for following it as well. I wasn't there, but is there something about that Battle Bunker tourney that didn't follow official advice?

If you think it is wrong then raise it with local politician rather than slamming those trying to get on with life whilst also looking to follow advise about corona. If we really shouldn't be opening such places then it is for the govt to make it clear.

Societies won't stay in lock down indefinitely waiting for an infallible vaccine that may never arrive, complaining about that won't alter the fact. What exactly is your threshold for acceptance? Every year people go to events and risk passing for example seasonal flu that kills others and flood hospitals with patients. Whilst it is certainly not as severe as corona at the moment a few years ago flu in the UK killed just shy of 30K people, which isn't that far off the current corona death toll. Flu is still a major killer. Yet we barely bat an eyelid whilst going about our life spreading it.

I have relatives who effectively lock themselves away in winter because flu would kill them, even with the vaccine which is never 100% sure (that bad year above was a year that the vaccine was less effective in the face of mutating flu), but that is their personal choice and they don't expect society to close down. If you accept the risk of such things, then why not corona, what is your personal threshold on risk? Is it some selfish feeling that you personally might die from corona but you would survive flu? Or do you see a few 10k of dead people from flu as nothing to worry about but the death toll from corona as somehow unacceptable to a degree that everyone who doesn't agree is insane.

Especially funny when putting in blanket statement without factoring in not every country is same. Fact: UK and US have been hit harder than most. However that doesn't mean every country is same.

ATM situation here for example is pretty much every case has been due to trip to foreign country or because somebody in their family went. There's very little to none infections inside country that isn't linked to foreign trips. There's been zero cases linked to public transports since this even started.

Odds of getting corona virus from tournament that takes up precautions is about the scale of getting hit by meteorite when you step out of your front door.

Of course if the virus starts to spread again so that risk becomes more plausible game stores close. They did that once before. They will do it again if need be. ATM you have higher risk of being killed by meteorite than catching it in game store.

Also people here take it seriously and follow instructions. Mask requirement was installed. People started using it(of course there's the little fact if you didn't you wouldn't get to play or even be there. You have no right to be there. You are told to leave you go or you start a fight and then you will go away after a fight. If by nothing else than by police if you really started fist fight over it). There's no "it's hoax" claims. And people don't come if they have symptoms. As it is I have still light cough and I didn't go there despite having fresh negative test result to show I don't have it. Been locked on my home since friday, test on sunday and since friday haven't even seen anybody live(quaranteed) so I can 100% safely say I don't have it. Yet I keep out of game area on the account of having cough still remaining.

puree wrote:
but is there something about that Battle Bunker tourney that didn't follow official advice?

It is just a single poster on this thread and the other thread who seems to take issue with the Owner despite being given what was a lengthy, factual and in-depth reply which he has not had the decency to reply in turn to.

At the time of the Tournaments the Venue was following and is currently following local authority advice as I visited the Shop this Sunday. It has a higher standard of Covid safety than the Metro, Supermarket and Restaurant I visited the day before.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dysartes wrote:
Anyone running events and claiming they're doing the right thing are insane - the right thing to do is to not run the damn events.

You just cant stop yourself can you?

Considering how well informed and knowledgeable all our "official advice" has been, regardless, I'll err on the side of caution.

A lot of recent study has shown fine particulate in the air as far away as 16 feet, and that air quality and "airflow" has a huge amount to do with how the virus spreads - i.e. indoors ends up with higher concentrations over time compared to outdoors.

The science is also not real clear on all the potential long-term effects of the virus on even relatively healthy people (lung, neurological, etc.) if they've contracted it.

So for myself, I'd be self-selecting to not attend any indoor events where groups will be congregating, regardless of the safeguards put in place, just because I don't think we understand how this virus works, and the best way to avoid it.

 greyknight12 wrote:
I hope that the 4+ feet minimum between myself and my opponent across the table will hamper transmission...what’s that movie, “five feet apart”?
Except for the LVO, we aren’t talking about thousands of people packed into a space, we’ve got a couple hundred at most and typically 40k players aren’t the kind of social globetrotters who are likely to come into contact with COVID-19 anyway.

you've got to realize that isn't how this works. There is a fairly large city about 100 miles from where i live, around 9,000 people live there. ONE person, a 64 year old woman traveled to a large city in a neighboring state for a week to attend a wedding. She brought it back with her, never showed any symptoms and within two weeks, this town which had seen no cases all of a sudden has over 300 suspected cases. It was all, contact traced back to the same woman.

Imagine the door handles, water fountains. Everything that a sick person (who might not even know they're sick) touches becomes a form of transmission. As we head into the fall, there is still a large chance this illness will begin to swell with cases again. It's just not worth it to put our lives at risk for a game.

Dysartes wrote:Anyone running events and claiming they're doing the right thing are insane - the right thing to do is to not run the damn events.

Absolutely.

And for anyone saying "I just want to get on live my life!" - I want to tell you that you can. I really do. But here's the thing about viruses and diseases in general. It doesn't just affect you. It affects everyone around you. It affects the people you pass who are going once a week to pick up more food, otherwise they'll starve. It affects the people you pass who go into work to pay their rent. If you're not doing something that's essential, you're potentially putting *everyone* else there at risk. So, it's really not just "oh, if I get it, that was my fault, unlucky me", because you then need to factor in the people who you could now have passed the same problem onto.

Bottom line - event runners shouldn't be running events and putting people in those positions. As much as anyone can say "well, that's up to them to decide to catch it/pass it on or not", the event runners shouldn't have had people make those decisions in the first place.

There have been a lot of posts with the same sentiment but no poster has given their personal benchmark for the when they would feel safe to attend a Tournament. Although a Pandemic, the UK is now in the localised containment phase of surges. Unless we can get a 100% success rate on a future vaccine, (unlikely with anti-vaxxers and Immunodeficiency disorders) there will always be these surges.

I am interested to know from others that won't attend Tournaments,did they ever attend them, do they visit the FLGS for pick up games or just play friends there, if at all. Do they visit Restaurants and Bars now? Will they go to the Cinema?. Or would they change their view if they received a positive anti-body test?

As I posed a lot of questions I suppose I best give some of my answers. The last 40k Tournament I was in was 4 years ago , I. go to my FLGS on the weekend and only play against my Son since the FLGS re-opened, both of us have had Covid early on in the pandemic. I eat out once a week at least and visit friends. Three positive antibody tests, two given by the Transfusion and Transplant Service as I was part of the trial for donating convalescent plasma and one from my NHS Trust due to my Profession.

But here's the thing about viruses and diseases in general. It doesn't just affect you.

I assume you hold same opinion every other year that flu happens, that is also just a virus/disease that you can pass onto others and start a chain leading to other people's death?

The right thing to do every single year must clearly be to not to run events, correct? Take away the choice for people to put their life before someone else's?

Or do you have some threshold as to what is or is not acceptable risk, which allows events in some years and not others, one that maybe is shared by everyone rather than just some like yourself?


If something is considered to be such a crisis that things should not be allowed to happen then our govt should be the ones making it very clear what is not allowed. I have no problem with events being banned per se, but that should come not from individuals screaming they think it is wrong based on their personal opinion of risk but from the govt; that can actually make at least some claim to represent society overall and have a better chance of having considered all the current science and weighed ALL the costs and benefits of what we do, not just now but in a few years time.. They also have to consider what is actually practical - can you lock down people for 2 years (the WHO currently pointing out spanish flu took 2 years to largely disappear) before they ignore that and make their own judgement (as you are) and ignore official advise, leading to potentially worse social unrest.

If you think they have got it wrong then complain at them.

We (in the uk) are being given govt backed discounts to eat out in restaurants; why would game events be worse?

Hesh_Tank_On wrote:
There have been a lot of posts with the same sentiment but no poster has given their personal benchmark for the when they would feel safe to attend a Tournament. Although a Pandemic, the UK is now in the localised containment phase of surges. Unless we can get a 100% success rate on a future vaccine, (unlikely with anti-vaxxers and Immunodeficiency disorders) there will always be these surges.
.

I feel safe atm and tournaments are open here. Cases very low atm and linked to travels to foreign countries. As tournaments doesn't involve(actually moving away from worst affected areas. Worst as　in maybe 10 cases a day) more likely to be hit by meteorite.

If cases starts to increase and come from domestic activity situation changes. Gaming areas were closed once, they can be closed again. So far 0 cases from tournaments all year.

There are a lot of individual factors in play for me beyond setting a bar for when I would feel safe for tournaments. The venue and how many people are rather obvious ones (for example, where I live holding an entire tournament outdoors is not an unreasonable idea). But other factors like table spacing or even, and I am very sad to be saying this, the general political lean of attendees also come into play in determining how safe things are.