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Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/20 10:27:36


Post by: Tristanleo


Mainly just wanting to see peoples opinions on this and see whether they agree. Psychic awakening is in full swing and we've seen wars and strife across the galaxy. We now learn that the Silent king himself may be making his return. One of my friends seems to think that this is the opportune moment to announce a new edition.
His reasoning behind this is that once psychic awakening is done, the state of the galaxy will have shifted drastically and a restructure of the rules will allow GW to bring all old and new releases up to scratch. This isn't likely to be a this year deal, but will be on the cards for a next year roll out.The absence of an april FAQ (This could also just be Coronavirus related, but he thinks they should have had at least something to work with for it) just reaffirms this a bit more in his eyes.

Opinions?


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/20 10:42:30


Post by: BrianDavion


It could be sure but honestly GW'd be dumb to announce 9th edition now due to the PA backlog. if I was GW assuming 9th edition was coming I'd hold off until the fall and release it as a christmas item


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/20 10:51:23


Post by: Amishprn86


Its not 9th. But I think its a new FAQ with FW 2.0


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/20 10:58:34


Post by: Aash


I very much doubt it’s a new edition. I can’t see them announcing a new edition until they’ve finished all the PA announcements.

As to what it might be, I’m not sure. Probably PA stuff: upcoming releases, any other books for PA etc. Plus reveals for currently announced PA stuff, knights, necrons, Custodes, EC etc. Maybe a primarch?


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/20 10:59:54


Post by: Crispy78


I'd love to say that GW wouldn't be daft enough to spring a new edition on us literally straight after a major campaign and multiple book releases for the current edition...

*glowers at Traitor Legions*
*glowers at End Times*


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/20 11:06:29


Post by: Eldarsif


Crispy78 wrote:
I'd love to say that GW wouldn't be daft enough to spring a new edition on us literally straight after a major campaign and multiple book releases for the current edition...

*glowers at Traitor Legions*
*glowers at End Times*


Current books will most likely still be applicable as a new edition does not mean they are pulling AoS 0.0 or 8th edition 40k. Like all other editions it can mean small updates, better wording(hopefully) of rules, and maybe some minor changes - like some cover rules. It's what they did in AoS 2.0 and I am still using my AoS 1.0 DoK and ID Tomes to good success. AoS also had a campaign(Malign Portents) and other things leading up to AoS 2.0 and all of those things were applicable in AoS 2.0 even if they were released in AoS 1.0.

People have to stop thinking that 8th edition has been the only 40k release in the past 20 years. Most editions tweaked and changed things without invalidating older books. I used my Asuryani(4th edition codex that was used until it got updated in 6th) and Drukhari(5th edition codex that was then updated in 7th) codex through several editions before they got an update and were never invalidated unless a new codex for that faction was released.

The Dark Imperium box has also oversaturated the market and is most likely not selling very much these days. I also doubt GW wants to reprint the rulebook from Dark Imperium infinitely as it is at this point a bit of a garbage book due to all the updates and FAQs. Good for lore and not much else.



Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/20 11:07:44


Post by: Aash


I could totally see GW going to 9th ed after PA, but I think they won’t announce it until PA has all wrapped up and the new releases are done. I imagine that would negatively impact sales of the yet to be released PA stuff, which GW will almost certainly avoid.



Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/20 11:16:12


Post by: Wayniac


I hope it's a 2.0 (well 9.0) like they did with AOS. Clean up the rules and fix a few of the worst offenders (really hoping for a fix to soup for CP generation). Game direly needs some kind of base cleaning. It won't invalidate existing books though just like AOS didn't.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/20 11:21:42


Post by: tneva82


Tristanleo wrote:
Mainly just wanting to see peoples opinions on this and see whether they agree. Psychic awakening is in full swing and we've seen wars and strife across the galaxy. We now learn that the Silent king himself may be making his return. One of my friends seems to think that this is the opportune moment to announce a new edition.
His reasoning behind this is that once psychic awakening is done, the state of the galaxy will have shifted drastically and a restructure of the rules will allow GW to bring all old and new releases up to scratch. This isn't likely to be a this year deal, but will be on the cards for a next year roll out.The absence of an april FAQ (This could also just be Coronavirus related, but he thinks they should have had at least something to work with for it) just reaffirms this a bit more in his eyes.

Opinions?


Possible? Certainly. One could even say likely. Not quaranteed though. It's certainly possibility.

HOWEVER and to stress this once more CODEXES WON'T BE INVALIDATED! No more "they wouldn't release codex only to invalidate it that soon". Apart from GW having history of invalidating within year or so(says guy who started vampire counts at the tail end of 5th ed FB) but they dont' invalidate codexes/army books that often. Twice in 40k, once in FB, so far never in AOS. We are not talking about them invalidating codexes all the time.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
BrianDavion wrote:
It could be sure but honestly GW'd be dumb to announce 9th edition now due to the PA backlog. if I was GW assuming 9th edition was coming I'd hold off until the fall and release it as a christmas item


What makes PA so special though? Those PA contents would still be 100% valid and legal in 9th ed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Aash wrote:
I could totally see GW going to 9th ed after PA, but I think they won’t announce it until PA has all wrapped up and the new releases are done. I imagine that would negatively impact sales of the yet to be released PA stuff, which GW will almost certainly avoid.



Why? You get models, usable in 9th ed, and books and rules, usable in 9th ed. Not even timeline is really issue since PA as is is in the history between 7th ed and 8th ed so "they wouldn't want to release PA when 9th ed brings in timeline shift to future" is void. They are already detailing past events so who cares even if 9th brought forth further leap toward future? PA would still be dealing with history rather than "present" whether it's 8th or 9th.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/20 11:32:30


Post by: Sgt_Smudge


tneva82 wrote:
What makes PA so special though? Those PA contents would still be 100% valid and legal in 9th ed.
Like how books from 7th ed were still valid in 8th?

While GW's track record is books being usable immediately between editions, that's not always been the case, and the most recent example has been a full change. You simply can't say with certainty that a 9th edition wouldn't feature similarly drastic changes.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/20 11:38:19


Post by: Aash


I wasn’t thinking they will wait til PA is finished from a fluff standpoint, but rather from a rules one.

I suspect (with no data/evidence) that there would be some who would be less likely to buy an upcoming PA book or unit with new rules in PA if there was a 9th edition on the horizon.

Not saying it can’t/won’t happen, but I can’t see how announcing 9th now would boost sales, while it might be seen as possibly reducing sales. So it’s a potential loss without a potential gain. Announcing 9th after PA has run it’s course wouldn’t carry any of this risk and there doesn’t seem to be any downside to delaying any such announcement. I just can’t imagine the board meeting where they would decide to take a risk to sales with no potential upside.


Edit: double post.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/20 11:40:31


Post by: tneva82


 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
What makes PA so special though? Those PA contents would still be 100% valid and legal in 9th ed.
Like how books from 7th ed were still valid in 8th?

While GW's track record is books being usable immediately between editions, that's not always been the case, and the most recent example has been a full change. You simply can't say with certainty that a 9th edition wouldn't feature similarly drastic changes.


So you look at the ONE case in 2 decades and think OBVIOUSLY they will invalidate books right away?

Howabout I point to 3rd ed books you could use in 7th ed.

It's exceedingly unlikely 9th ed will invalidate. GW has done invalidation of codexes total of 3 times in it's history. Twice in 40k(2->3, 7->8), once in FB(5->6) and never in AOS. That's 3 cases when combined we have 18 editions. And the only game that has happened more than once had 2 decades.

Wanna bet on 9th ed invalidating books?-) I'm taking bet on side of not invalidating.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/20 11:48:10


Post by: p5freak


Saturdays announcement is not going to be 9th edition, or 8.5. No one, especially not GW, can clean up the mess that is 8th edition.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/20 11:51:36


Post by: KurtAngle2


 p5freak wrote:
Saturdays announcement is not going to be 9th edition, or 8.5. No one, especially not GW, can clean up the mess that is 8th edition.


Oh boy you're gonna get rekt'd so hard when they announce 8.5/9.0 in few days. I wouldn't bet on GW releasing new Starter Sets/New narrative without an Edition change behind (which has happened in 8TH too with the Primaris bs but here we forget rather easily) so I'd get away with your naive thinking right now.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/20 11:55:28


Post by: Sgt_Smudge


tneva82 wrote:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
What makes PA so special though? Those PA contents would still be 100% valid and legal in 9th ed.
Like how books from 7th ed were still valid in 8th?

While GW's track record is books being usable immediately between editions, that's not always been the case, and the most recent example has been a full change. You simply can't say with certainty that a 9th edition wouldn't feature similarly drastic changes.


So you look at the ONE case in 2 decades and think OBVIOUSLY they will invalidate books right away?
I didn't say that. I said that the most recent example of GW doing an edition change was a full reworking. More importantly, I never said for a second that I believed that's what GW would do, but that you cannot be certain they won't.

There's a big difference between "they will do this" and "they could do this", one you've missed in your own and my points.

It's exceedingly unlikely 9th ed will invalidate.
Unlikely, but not certain. Don't use language like "would still be usable" when you don't know that for certain.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/20 11:56:49


Post by: KurtAngle2


 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
What makes PA so special though? Those PA contents would still be 100% valid and legal in 9th ed.
Like how books from 7th ed were still valid in 8th?

While GW's track record is books being usable immediately between editions, that's not always been the case, and the most recent example has been a full change. You simply can't say with certainty that a 9th edition wouldn't feature similarly drastic changes.


So you look at the ONE case in 2 decades and think OBVIOUSLY they will invalidate books right away?
I didn't say that. I said that the most recent example of GW doing an edition change was a full reworking. More importantly, I never said for a second that I believed that's what GW would do, but that you cannot be certain they won't.

There's a big difference between "they will do this" and "they could do this", one you've missed in your own and my points.

It's exceedingly unlikely 9th ed will invalidate.
Unlikely, but not certain. Don't use language like "would still be usable" when you don't know that for certain.


From an economic perspective it's 99% safe to say that any new edition won't invalidate current Codices (might need a faq for few things but the rest of them will be fine) and PAs (which are 100% dependant on the aforementioned Codices).


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/20 11:58:04


Post by: Aash


KurtAngle2 wrote:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
What makes PA so special though? Those PA contents would still be 100% valid and legal in 9th ed.
Like how books from 7th ed were still valid in 8th?

While GW's track record is books being usable immediately between editions, that's not always been the case, and the most recent example has been a full change. You simply can't say with certainty that a 9th edition wouldn't feature similarly drastic changes.


So you look at the ONE case in 2 decades and think OBVIOUSLY they will invalidate books right away?
I didn't say that. I said that the most recent example of GW doing an edition change was a full reworking. More importantly, I never said for a second that I believed that's what GW would do, but that you cannot be certain they won't.

There's a big difference between "they will do this" and "they could do this", one you've missed in your own and my points.

It's exceedingly unlikely 9th ed will invalidate.
Unlikely, but not certain. Don't use language like "would still be usable" when you don't know that for certain.


From an economic perspective it's 99% safe to say that any new edition won't invalidate current Codices (might need a faq for few things but the rest of them will be fine) and PAs (which are 100% dependant on the aforementioned Codices).


A 1% drop in sales is not insignificant. Why take that chance when there is no upside to balance the risk?


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/20 12:22:05


Post by: ArcaneHorror


Due to how financially successful GW has been the last few years, if there is a 9th edition, I don't expect there to be many radical changes.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/20 12:32:23


Post by: Dysartes


Tristanleo wrote:
His reasoning behind this is that once psychic awakening is done, the state of the galaxy will have shifted drastically and a restructure of the rules will allow GW to bring all old and new releases up to scratch.


Well, your friend's reasoning is faulty - everything that has happened as part of PA had happened (in-universe) before the point in time we were at when 8th dropped...


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/20 12:32:35


Post by: Tiberias


Wayniac wrote:
I hope it's a 2.0 (well 9.0) like they did with AOS. Clean up the rules and fix a few of the worst offenders (really hoping for a fix to soup for CP generation). Game direly needs some kind of base cleaning. It won't invalidate existing books though just like AOS didn't.


I respectfully disagree with this assessment. They should stay away from aos as far as possible with 40k, both in terms of rules and especially lore. End times was the biggest dumpster fire ever.
I also disagree that 40k needs some base cleaning that even remotely resembles what they have done with warhammer fantasy and the beginning steps of aos.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/20 12:35:51


Post by: Catulle


 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
What makes PA so special though? Those PA contents would still be 100% valid and legal in 9th ed.
Like how books from 7th ed were still valid in 8th?

While GW's track record is books being usable immediately between editions, that's not always been the case, and the most recent example has been a full change. You simply can't say with certainty that a 9th edition wouldn't feature similarly drastic changes.


So you look at the ONE case in 2 decades and think OBVIOUSLY they will invalidate books right away?
I didn't say that. I said that the most recent example of GW doing an edition change was a full reworking. More importantly, I never said for a second that I believed that's what GW would do, but that you cannot be certain they won't.

There's a big difference between "they will do this" and "they could do this", one you've missed in your own and my points.

It's exceedingly unlikely 9th ed will invalidate.
Unlikely, but not certain. Don't use language like "would still be usable" when you don't know that for certain.


The most recent edition change GW did was Age of Sigmar, no?


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/20 13:06:46


Post by: The Newman


Tiberias wrote:
Wayniac wrote:
I hope it's a 2.0 (well 9.0) like they did with AOS. Clean up the rules and fix a few of the worst offenders (really hoping for a fix to soup for CP generation). Game direly needs some kind of base cleaning. It won't invalidate existing books though just like AOS didn't.


I respectfully disagree with this assessment. They should stay away from aos as far as possible with 40k, both in terms of rules and especially lore. End times was the biggest dumpster fire ever.
I also disagree that 40k needs some base cleaning that even remotely resembles what they have done with warhammer fantasy and the beginning steps of aos.

I think he's referring to AoS 2nd ed, not the End Times switch from WFB to AoS. And I basically agree that 40k could use some fundamental adjustment on terrain rules and CP generation, and also compiling all the base rule errata into one place.

I think their is also room to adjust the to-wound table and introduce some of the City Fight rules (Obscured in particular) to reign in the lethality a bit without requiring any sort of adjustment to the current codex set.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/20 13:20:16


Post by: Wayniac


Correct I meant the new version of AOS compared to the initial one, not End Times to AOS. the second version basically kept everything in the first and just cleaned a few things up. 40k could do with something like that.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/20 13:25:50


Post by: Tiberias


Wayniac wrote:
Correct I meant the new version of AOS compared to the initial one, not End Times to AOS. the second version basically kept everything in the first and just cleaned a few things up. 40k could do with something like that.


I misunderstood your point then, apologies. I also fully agree with you then.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/20 13:38:10


Post by: Tamwulf


It'll probably be some big, Necron model to coincide with Pariah. You know, something that no one really wants, but GW is convinced we need and will buy.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/20 13:41:24


Post by: Grimtuff


 Dysartes wrote:
Tristanleo wrote:
His reasoning behind this is that once psychic awakening is done, the state of the galaxy will have shifted drastically and a restructure of the rules will allow GW to bring all old and new releases up to scratch.


Well, your friend's reasoning is faulty - everything that has happened as part of PA had happened (in-universe) before the point in time we were at when 8th dropped...


I feel like this should be stapled to the top of every forum at this point, along with a link to the difference between story and discourse.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/20 14:11:41


Post by: Tiberias


 Tamwulf wrote:
It'll probably be some big, Necron model to coincide with Pariah. You know, something that no one really wants, but GW is convinced we need and will buy.


Well, I have to admit I am all for a chunky silent King model. I'd like them to update standard necron warriors and destroyers also, but that won't happen probably


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/20 14:30:32


Post by: Eldarsif


 Tamwulf wrote:
It'll probably be some big, Necron model to coincide with Pariah. You know, something that no one really wants, but GW is convinced we need and will buy.


I just doubt they can carry an hour or more with just one model as the hype for the day has explicitly stated that this is such a big reveal for 40k that they've made the reveal day a 40k exclusive. The other days tended to mix something from every line they have and that did include two army reveals(Lumineth box and models and Behemat).

So I expect something more than just a single model. There could of course be a whole new army faction coming with the Silent King.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/20 16:12:44


Post by: grouchoben


My money's on the Silent King, a new battle box & an actual look at the FW codexes, which they mentioned months ago and have yet to spoil. 9th is much less likely imo, but hey, if it happens that's fine with me.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/20 17:20:59


Post by: TheAvengingKnee


Wayniac wrote:
I hope it's a 2.0 (well 9.0) like they did with AOS. Clean up the rules and fix a few of the worst offenders (really hoping for a fix to soup for CP generation). Game direly needs some kind of base cleaning. It won't invalidate existing books though just like AOS didn't.


That is what I am hoping, I like the idea of being able to mix factions if you want but giving bonuses for mono faction. Honestly I think they should either standardize cp based on game size or rebalance the amount of CP you get from each detachment by the army you chose to tone down guard cp farming and the crazy amount of cp guard can get. My normal guard opponent spends more cp than I get for the game before the game starts and still has more CP left than I started with.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/20 17:41:02


Post by: rbstr


There's 3 PA books to release still but they're all announced. That's probably 2 months of releases? Seems time to let everybody in on the thing that's coming after.
Since they're fresh-out of major codices to do without doing more Marines-2.0 kind of books, I'd guess we'll see another set of campaign-style releases or 9.0 and them re-starting the codex wheel.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/20 18:08:42


Post by: PenitentJake


I'm not 100% sure it will be an edition change.

If it is, I am fairly certain it won't invalidate anything, but obviously as pointed out, I can't be sure.

I do want to set the record strait on the history of 40k invalidation rules. Rogue Trader to 2nd was invalidation, as was 2n to 3rd, as was 7th to 8th. Within 8th, Indexes have been invalidated, and that will soon include FW Indexes as well.

I could have missed something between 3rd and 7th, but I'm not as familiar with that era. Once the 3rd ed wiped out GSC and the Witch Hunter dex was replaced sometime after 3rd, from my perspective, the whole game was invalidated.

I took a break for a while- until GSC returned, to be exact. The prospect of new Sisters is what kept me in.

The timing of the end of BSF is also interesting. I has been suggested that there may be another Warhammer Quest game set in 40k. Wouldn't it be interesting if the pattern was one WHQ game per soft update of the living edition?


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/20 18:33:59


Post by: Insectum7


Announcing an edition change in a climate where people are encouraged to stay away from each other would be pretty stupid.

I hope it's Necron Pariahs. If Necrons get some cool stuff I will finally bite the bullet and start collecting Necrons again.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/20 18:38:26


Post by: Dudeface


 Insectum7 wrote:
Announcing an edition change in a climate where people are encouraged to stay away from each other would be pretty stupid.

I hope it's Necron Pariahs. If Necrons get some cool stuff I will finally bite the bullet and start collecting Necrons again.


Announcing a new anything is no more or less stupid than anything else in this climate. But it might get people creating new lists, buying new armies, considering new units etc.

Plus it might not be out until people return to a degree of normality.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/20 19:09:39


Post by: Insectum7


Dudeface wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
Announcing an edition change in a climate where people are encouraged to stay away from each other would be pretty stupid.

I hope it's Necron Pariahs. If Necrons get some cool stuff I will finally bite the bullet and start collecting Necrons again.


Announcing a new anything is no more or less stupid than anything else in this climate.

That's certainly not true. Trying to sell products intended for group activities is far worse an idea than selling products for solitary engagement. Video games are way up in sales, for example. GW should be focusing on models, stories and list tinkering. Save the new edition for when people can start playing again.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/20 19:23:32


Post by: ccs


PenitentJake wrote:

I do want to set the record strait on the history of 40k invalidation rules. Rogue Trader to 2nd was invalidation, as was 2n to 3rd, as was 7th to 8th.



PenitentJake wrote:
Within 8th, Indexes have been invalidated, and that will soon include FW Indexes as well.


That is not the same as being invalidated because of edition change.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/20 19:58:28


Post by: EnTyme


I'm going to say the same thing I did in the N&R thread: whether or not 8th edition rulebooks are invalidated, announcing a new edition while you're still trying release supplements for the current edition would be bad marketing. Some people declare codices obsolete as soon as the FAQ is released.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/20 20:11:27


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Given how far in advance GW plan their releases, the current situation likely doesn’t factor in at all.

If 9th Ed is done, printed and ready for release? That’s a huge amount of warehouse space.

Postpone it, and what do you actually achieve? You’d need to find space somewhere else in an already packed release schedule, and keep everything in your warehouse - whilst also ramping up production on your other, soon to be released products.

I get people’s comments that it’s not ideal - and no, it’s not at all. But I don’t think it’s sufficient to stop such a release altogether.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/20 20:37:02


Post by: AngryAngel80


I think it'll be more PA stuff.

I don't think we will see 9th edition news. As new editions would mean people would hold off on buying so they know what they would be looking at. It generally leads to a slow down from most wise buyers so they don't pick up something good now to be crap soon.

I think if 9th was this Summer that was before the pandemic struck and now with social distance and how it'll hit gaming in person still going forward, I'd imagine that is getting pushed back till next year or end of the year at earliest at this point. That is if it was coming at all.

Just my ideas of course.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/20 22:31:17


Post by: Orkimedez_Atalaya


A new stompa would be big and would fit with comic's series in warhammer community... Just saying


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/21 08:23:11


Post by: Dudeface


 Insectum7 wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
Announcing an edition change in a climate where people are encouraged to stay away from each other would be pretty stupid.

I hope it's Necron Pariahs. If Necrons get some cool stuff I will finally bite the bullet and start collecting Necrons again.


Announcing a new anything is no more or less stupid than anything else in this climate.

That's certainly not true. Trying to sell products intended for group activities is far worse an idea than selling products for solitary engagement. Video games are way up in sales, for example. GW should be focusing on models, stories and list tinkering. Save the new edition for when people can start playing again.


Well that's correct, but this is about a GW preview which is the context I applied to my statement. Warhammer is inherently a social activity and anything they release or preview is ultimately with the intent of engaging in it.

A new edition is the epitome of list tinkering and deep reading/review opportunities for the community. It'll generate more conversations than almost anything else they can release or show.

Ultimately if they reveal it, it likely won't be in our hands until after society is starting to return to normal(ish), it's not like their reveal equates to immediate release.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/21 08:37:10


Post by: Aenar


Dudeface wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
Announcing an edition change in a climate where people are encouraged to stay away from each other would be pretty stupid.

I hope it's Necron Pariahs. If Necrons get some cool stuff I will finally bite the bullet and start collecting Necrons again.


Announcing a new anything is no more or less stupid than anything else in this climate.

That's certainly not true. Trying to sell products intended for group activities is far worse an idea than selling products for solitary engagement. Video games are way up in sales, for example. GW should be focusing on models, stories and list tinkering. Save the new edition for when people can start playing again.


Well that's correct, but this is about a GW preview which is the context I applied to my statement. Warhammer is inherently a social activity and anything they release or preview is ultimately with the intent of engaging in it.

A new edition is the epitome of list tinkering and deep reading/review opportunities for the community. It'll generate more conversations than almost anything else they can release or show.

Ultimately if they reveal it, it likely won't be in our hands until after society is starting to return to normal(ish), it's not like their reveal equates to immediate release.

8th ed was announced officially almost 3 months before release, but it was a drastic change of the ruleset. The primaris marines and the Dark Imperium boxset have been revealed 2-3 weeks before preorders (from mid May to preorders on the first week of June 2017).

It's certainly possible that on Saturday they'll show the Silent King, something else like the Forge World books and then close the preview hinting at a new boxset coming up, only to do another online preview next month.
They would ramp up the hype but not commit to release something massive (in terms of production and distribution) when they're still working at reduced capacity.

Another thing has to be considered: if this new boxset and 9th ed (or call it 8.5) were planned for June before the pandemic, they would've started producing it months in advance, because distribution all around the world takes time. They may be good at keeping things secret, but if something this big was being produced in March, there's no way that they'd be able to keep it a secret for many more months. Better to announce it, even slowly over multiple previews, rather than having unofficial leaks spoiling it and possibly having an uncontrolled impact on sales.
If a new edition is officially announced, with the promise of not invalidating current codices and PA books, it probably doesn't negatively impact sales. If it were to leak unofficially, people may be worried about it and not buy new stuff until there's uncertainty about the future of the game. Staying on top of the narrative is crucial.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/21 08:40:59


Post by: Eldarsif


 EnTyme wrote:
I'm going to say the same thing I did in the N&R thread: whether or not 8th edition rulebooks are invalidated, announcing a new edition while you're still trying release supplements for the current edition would be bad marketing. Some people declare codices obsolete as soon as the FAQ is released.


The PA books would still be valid. They are, for all intents and purposes, the version patch on older codexes and contain unit rules that would still be valid. A new edition does not necessarily mean new codexes for all factions, much like how it was before 8th came. I remember the before-time where books were valid for several editions. Hell, I am still using 1.0 Tomes in AoS 2.0 because they haven't been given another release and those books are doing quite well.

I think people are a bit too stuck on the gamechanging 8th edition. Not all edition changes have been so drastic and books were more often than not backwards compatible. It's why some people refer to a potential new edition as 8.5. Hell, most editions were a 0.5 update more than anything else as they made small changes to the core game for the most part.

Also, and I am a bit surprised no one has mentioned this, but campaign books leading up to a new starter/game rule update isn't exactly new. Gathering Storm, End Times, and Malign Portents were all campaign books lead up to a new starter and such. We don't have that many PA books left and releasing a new starter with some rule updates is not entirely out of the realm of possibility and something I kinda expect.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/21 09:17:02


Post by: Aash


I expect that you’re right, that when it comes, 9th edition won’t invalidate existing codexes, Campaign books and PA rules.

However, (probably unpopular opinion) I would prefer if the rules expansions did get invalidated when a new edition comes around.

I really dislike the way the rules are spread across so many publications, and each publication has its own errata/faq as well.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/21 09:24:15


Post by: Dudeface


 Aenar wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
Announcing an edition change in a climate where people are encouraged to stay away from each other would be pretty stupid.

I hope it's Necron Pariahs. If Necrons get some cool stuff I will finally bite the bullet and start collecting Necrons again.


Announcing a new anything is no more or less stupid than anything else in this climate.

That's certainly not true. Trying to sell products intended for group activities is far worse an idea than selling products for solitary engagement. Video games are way up in sales, for example. GW should be focusing on models, stories and list tinkering. Save the new edition for when people can start playing again.


Well that's correct, but this is about a GW preview which is the context I applied to my statement. Warhammer is inherently a social activity and anything they release or preview is ultimately with the intent of engaging in it.

A new edition is the epitome of list tinkering and deep reading/review opportunities for the community. It'll generate more conversations than almost anything else they can release or show.

Ultimately if they reveal it, it likely won't be in our hands until after society is starting to return to normal(ish), it's not like their reveal equates to immediate release.

8th ed was announced officially almost 3 months before release, but it was a drastic change of the ruleset. The primaris marines and the Dark Imperium boxset have been revealed 2-3 weeks before preorders (from mid May to preorders on the first week of June 2017).

It's certainly possible that on Saturday they'll show the Silent King, something else like the Forge World books and then close the preview hinting at a new boxset coming up, only to do another online preview next month.
They would ramp up the hype but not commit to release something massive (in terms of production and distribution) when they're still working at reduced capacity.

Another thing has to be considered: if this new boxset and 9th ed (or call it 8.5) were planned for June before the pandemic, they would've started producing it months in advance, because distribution all around the world takes time. They may be good at keeping things secret, but if something this big was being produced in March, there's no way that they'd be able to keep it a secret for many more months. Better to announce it, even slowly over multiple previews, rather than having unofficial leaks spoiling it and possibly having an uncontrolled impact on sales.
If a new edition is officially announced, with the promise of not invalidating current codices and PA books, it probably doesn't negatively impact sales. If it were to leak unofficially, people may be worried about it and not buy new stuff until there's uncertainty about the future of the game. Staying on top of the narrative is crucial.


There have been some leaks and hints for over the last year form a few people who are usually fairly on the money alongside the blurry primaris leak image.

List of potential leaks:
Spoiler:

- image from late last year
http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/363392-9th-edition-end-of-summernecrons/ - detailing the boxset and release in April
http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/359419-9th-edition-rumors/ - October last year detailing the boxset
There was another very early in the year (around January when GW did a massive article on the silent king in WD) teasing of a large centrepiece necron model around a new edition






Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/21 09:25:28


Post by: dadamowsky


Aash wrote:
I expect that you’re right, that when it comes, 9th edition won’t invalidate existing codexes, Campaign books and PA rules.

However, (probably unpopular opinion) I would prefer if the rules expansions did get invalidated when a new edition comes around.

I really dislike the way the rules are spread across so many publications, and each publication has its own errata/faq as well.


This is why I really really hope the 9th will come with sub-base online multi-platform service with ALL the rules in it. While books would be sold as solely collector's items, artbooks and fluff stuff. It's XXI century guys, we should ask for and expect XXI century solutions.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/21 09:32:30


Post by: Aash


Never mind 21st century solutions, let’s try and implement some 20th century ones at least!!

Any other publisher will make edits to correct errors when they reprint a publication, GW should do this for all the rules sources. There is no reason I can see that if I were to buy the BRB today it is the same edition as was released in 2017, they should be reprinted with the amendments from CA and errata/faq amendments. CA should be available separately for an annual update for those who already own the BRB, but someone coming into the hobby new shouldn’t be getting a 4 year out of date rule book and feel the need to buy CA for the latest rules and download a bunch of pdfs to get started.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/21 09:37:15


Post by: BlaxicanX


Would never be a 9th edition announcement. Announcing 9E now would basically kill all sales for Psychic Awakening- even if the rules were backwards compatible with a new edition.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/21 09:41:38


Post by: Dudeface


 BlaxicanX wrote:
Would never be a 9th edition announcement. Announcing 9E now would basically kill all sales for Psychic Awakening- even if the rules were backwards compatible with a new edition.


But why? If they confirm all codecies and expansions are entirely valid and written to be compatible, why wouldn't people buy them?


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/21 09:44:14


Post by: Aash


Dudeface wrote:
 BlaxicanX wrote:
Would never be a 9th edition announcement. Announcing 9E now would basically kill all sales for Psychic Awakening- even if the rules were backwards compatible with a new edition.


But why? If they confirm all codecies and expansions are entirely valid and written to be compatible, why wouldn't people buy them?


Because without knowing what rules changes and mechanics will or won’t be introduced/changed in the new edition it impossible to tell how effect the rules in PA would be. I expect many players would hold off on getting things if there is doubt over how it will work in a new edition. Just because the rules are compatible, doesn’t mean that the same things are effective in the the new edition.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/21 09:59:41


Post by: Gadzilla666


Aash wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
 BlaxicanX wrote:
Would never be a 9th edition announcement. Announcing 9E now would basically kill all sales for Psychic Awakening- even if the rules were backwards compatible with a new edition.


But why? If they confirm all codecies and expansions are entirely valid and written to be compatible, why wouldn't people buy them?


Because without knowing what rules changes and mechanics will or won’t be introduced/changed in the new edition it impossible to tell how effect the rules in PA would be. I expect many players would hold off on getting things if there is doubt over how it will work in a new edition. Just because the rules are compatible, doesn’t mean that the same things are effective in the the new edition.

Those would have to be new players. Anyone who played from 3rd through 7th would know that codexes sometimes last for multiple editions.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/21 10:00:36


Post by: Dudeface


Aash wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
 BlaxicanX wrote:
Would never be a 9th edition announcement. Announcing 9E now would basically kill all sales for Psychic Awakening- even if the rules were backwards compatible with a new edition.


But why? If they confirm all codecies and expansions are entirely valid and written to be compatible, why wouldn't people buy them?


Because without knowing what rules changes and mechanics will or won’t be introduced/changed in the new edition it impossible to tell how effect the rules in PA would be. I expect many players would hold off on getting things if there is doubt over how it will work in a new edition. Just because the rules are compatible, doesn’t mean that the same things are effective in the the new edition.


So you'll deliberately not buy the extra warlord traits/relics/strats/units/army rules for an army because you don't know whether ignores cover might be of more use as a random example?


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/21 10:03:51


Post by: Aash


 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Aash wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
 BlaxicanX wrote:
Would never be a 9th edition announcement. Announcing 9E now would basically kill all sales for Psychic Awakening- even if the rules were backwards compatible with a new edition.


But why? If they confirm all codecies and expansions are entirely valid and written to be compatible, why wouldn't people buy them?


Because without knowing what rules changes and mechanics will or won’t be introduced/changed in the new edition it impossible to tell how effect the rules in PA would be. I expect many players would hold off on getting things if there is doubt over how it will work in a new edition. Just because the rules are compatible, doesn’t mean that the same things are effective in the the new edition.

Those would have to be new players. Anyone who played from 3rd through 7th would know that codexes sometimes last for multiple editions.


The codexes stayed valid, but how effective they were definitely changed between editions. A new edition might fundamentally change the mechanics for MW, Ld, S vs T, wound allocation, WS, BS, fallback mechanics etc. without invalidating the current codexes. Any of these changes would change the effectiveness of numerous units and possibly whole armies. This would certainly give pause to me and I’m sure many others when deciding whether or not to buy new models or PA books etc.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/21 10:04:27


Post by: dadamowsky


Aash wrote:
Never mind 21st century solutions, let’s try and implement some 20th century ones at least!!

Any other publisher will make edits to correct errors when they reprint a publication, GW should do this for all the rules sources. There is no reason I can see that if I were to buy the BRB today it is the same edition as was released in 2017, they should be reprinted with the amendments from CA and errata/faq amendments. CA should be available separately for an annual update for those who already own the BRB, but someone coming into the hobby new shouldn’t be getting a 4 year out of date rule book and feel the need to buy CA for the latest rules and download a bunch of pdfs to get started.


You severely underestimate the roar that would be heard over "why do I have to buy the same book again", and the massive sell drop following it. And rightfully so, the current system of FAQs and Erratas is just a better way to update a book-based game, from a pure consumer viability point of view. It's just not better overall.

Just as music, movies, software, or video games are widely becoming a product-as-service, this is a future for wargaming as well - at least in the part of the game itself. There's no longer a point why would you buy a book that is outdated several weeks after release, you have to carry for several pages of rules and is generally troublesome - just take a look at the scale of the content piracy that is happening on the rules alone. GaS low-fee-high-consumer-count model would not only patch that for GW's incentive to do so but supported by a corresponding interactive and interlinked app it would also contribute to the massive improvements for users. The obscurity of rules hidden beneath dozens of publications is basically gone when you can quickly check the proper FAQ or designers' commentary linked to the rule. Classic win-win other sectors of entertainment proved to work wonders.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/21 10:09:04


Post by: Ginjitzu


I'm not really sure what a "new edition" actually entails, and have 0 insight as to what their announcement will involve save for their own clues which suggest something related to the Silent King.

If the announcement is that I have to buy another big rulebook, then I won't be happy, even if it is an improvement. I'm kind of sick of spending money on books instead of plastic.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/21 10:14:18


Post by: Aash


 dadamowsky wrote:
Aash wrote:
Never mind 21st century solutions, let’s try and implement some 20th century ones at least!!

Any other publisher will make edits to correct errors when they reprint a publication, GW should do this for all the rules sources. There is no reason I can see that if I were to buy the BRB today it is the same edition as was released in 2017, they should be reprinted with the amendments from CA and errata/faq amendments. CA should be available separately for an annual update for those who already own the BRB, but someone coming into the hobby new shouldn’t be getting a 4 year out of date rule book and feel the need to buy CA for the latest rules and download a bunch of pdfs to get started.


You severely underestimate the roar that would be heard over "why do I have to buy the same book again", and the massive sell drop following it. And rightfully so, the current system of FAQs and Erratas is just a better way to update a book-based game, from a pure consumer viability point of view. It's just not better overall.


I don’t think it should force people to rebuy what they already paid for, and I think the downloadable faq/erratas should remain. What I’d suggest is that for those who own the BRB or a codex already, the annual CA would contain new content and the FAQs etc would be available, but the existing books should be reprinted with the amendments from the FAQs and errata and new stuff from CA such as missions etc that are expansions to the rule book so that someone new coming in wouldn’t be buying an out of date book while those who already own the book would be able to get the FAQs as is currently the case.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/21 10:19:37


Post by: dadamowsky


Aash wrote:



I don’t think it should force people to rebuy what they already paid for, and I think the downloadable faq/erratas should remain. What I’d suggest is that for those who own the BRB or a codex already, the annual CA would contain new content and the FAQs etc would be available, but the existing books should be reprinted with the amendments from the FAQs and errata and new stuff from CA such as missions etc that are expansions to the rule book so that someone new coming in wouldn’t be buying an out of date book while those who already own the book would be able to get the FAQs as is currently the case.


So you basically are designing a mute (from a profitability point of view) physical product (meaning presales investments) that incentivizes piracy even more. Sorry, but that is not happening for a reason.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/21 10:33:55


Post by: Eldarsif


 BlaxicanX wrote:
Would never be a 9th edition announcement. Announcing 9E now would basically kill all sales for Psychic Awakening- even if the rules were backwards compatible with a new edition.


That makes no sense. If you want to have access to the new abilities and units you still need the books. I am still going to need Phoenix Rising for the Ynnari Index and the sub-faction traits for my Aeldari units, not to mention Jain-Zar and Drazhar. A new edition does nothing to invalidate that. Only thing that could invalidate Phoenix Rising is the release of a new codex for Asuryani, Drukhari, and Ynnari. That won't happen immediately with a release of a new edition.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Aash wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
 BlaxicanX wrote:
Would never be a 9th edition announcement. Announcing 9E now would basically kill all sales for Psychic Awakening- even if the rules were backwards compatible with a new edition.


But why? If they confirm all codecies and expansions are entirely valid and written to be compatible, why wouldn't people buy them?


Because without knowing what rules changes and mechanics will or won’t be introduced/changed in the new edition it impossible to tell how effect the rules in PA would be. I expect many players would hold off on getting things if there is doubt over how it will work in a new edition. Just because the rules are compatible, doesn’t mean that the same things are effective in the the new edition.


That goes for any change. By that metric the Chapter Approved books invalidate PA books.

Plus I doubt they print a gazillion copies of the PA books. Maybe 1-2 runs at best to meet demand and then they disappear just like any other campaign books, at best available online. The PA books are not something that is meant to be around for a long time. They are there to give some updates for each army, lore for the lore nerds, and money for the accountants at GW at release.

The codexes stayed valid, but how effective they were definitely changed between editions. A new edition might fundamentally change the mechanics for MW, Ld, S vs T, wound allocation, WS, BS, fallback mechanics etc. without invalidating the current codexes. Any of these changes would change the effectiveness of numerous units and possibly whole armies. This would certainly give pause to me and I’m sure many others when deciding whether or not to buy new models or PA books etc.


A new model can give pause to another army. That's just the nature of the Warhammer hobby. If you are in it to chase the meta you better have a big bank account because the meta is ever shifting.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/21 10:36:24


Post by: Aash


 dadamowsky wrote:
Aash wrote:



I don’t think it should force people to rebuy what they already paid for, and I think the downloadable faq/erratas should remain. What I’d suggest is that for those who own the BRB or a codex already, the annual CA would contain new content and the FAQs etc would be available, but the existing books should be reprinted with the amendments from the FAQs and errata and new stuff from CA such as missions etc that are expansions to the rule book so that someone new coming in wouldn’t be buying an out of date book while those who already own the book would be able to get the FAQs as is currently the case.


So you basically are designing a mute (from a profitability point of view) physical product (meaning presales investments) that incentivizes piracy even more. Sorry, but that is not happening for a reason.


You might be right, a guy can dream though.

I’m not 100% convinced that it wouldn’t be profitable though. I’ve no stats to support this, but it’s not inconceivable that there are potential customers dissuaded from buying into the hobby when they learn the starter book (BRB) is not valid and they need to also buy CA and download a bunch of FAQs. I think there is value in lowering the barriers to entry, and this would be one way of doing it.

That being said, I doubt it’ll ever happen.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/21 10:40:51


Post by: Eldarsif


 dadamowsky wrote:
Aash wrote:
Never mind 21st century solutions, let’s try and implement some 20th century ones at least!!

Any other publisher will make edits to correct errors when they reprint a publication, GW should do this for all the rules sources. There is no reason I can see that if I were to buy the BRB today it is the same edition as was released in 2017, they should be reprinted with the amendments from CA and errata/faq amendments. CA should be available separately for an annual update for those who already own the BRB, but someone coming into the hobby new shouldn’t be getting a 4 year out of date rule book and feel the need to buy CA for the latest rules and download a bunch of pdfs to get started.


You severely underestimate the roar that would be heard over "why do I have to buy the same book again", and the massive sell drop following it. And rightfully so, the current system of FAQs and Erratas is just a better way to update a book-based game, from a pure consumer viability point of view. It's just not better overall.

Just as music, movies, software, or video games are widely becoming a product-as-service, this is a future for wargaming as well - at least in the part of the game itself. There's no longer a point why would you buy a book that is outdated several weeks after release, you have to carry for several pages of rules and is generally troublesome - just take a look at the scale of the content piracy that is happening on the rules alone. GaS low-fee-high-consumer-count model would not only patch that for GW's incentive to do so but supported by a corresponding interactive and interlinked app it would also contribute to the massive improvements for users. The obscurity of rules hidden beneath dozens of publications is basically gone when you can quickly check the proper FAQ or designers' commentary linked to the rule. Classic win-win other sectors of entertainment proved to work wonders.


They should of course go very much digital. They have done that to some extent with AoS and the game is better for it. I can look up any stat on the AoS app and the AoS app contains the rule booklet. Only thing it is missing is faction traits and sub-faction traits, along with spells and artifacts. Otherwise a fantastic approach from GW. The Warscroll Builder they provide is also brilliant.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/21 11:14:29


Post by: Aenar


40K is incredibly more complex than AoS regarding list building. Battlescribe crashes or slows down a lot sometimes (at least it used to).
I doubt that GW will provide a 40K "warscroll builder" anytime soon, as it would require some people dedicated on working on only that. They are fine with Battlescribe existing and providing that service, to the point that even the official GW tournaments I've attended did require the lists to be submitted to be done in Battlescribe.
That said, digital rules is the way to go. Codices that get automatically updated FAQs, erratas, points and hyperlinks between different rules and pages should be the standard in 2020.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/21 11:17:37


Post by: Aash


 Aenar wrote:
40K is incredibly more complex than AoS regarding list building. Battlescribe crashes or slows down a lot sometimes (at least it used to).
I doubt that GW will provide a 40K "warscroll builder" anytime soon, as it would require some people dedicated on working on only that. They are fine with Battlescribe existing and providing that service, to the point that even the official GW tournaments I've attended did require the lists to be submitted to be done in Battlescribe.
That said, digital rules is the way to go. Codices that get automatically updated FAQs, erratas, points and hyperlinks between different rules and pages should be the standard in 2020.


I could see GW buying BattleScribe and removing the non GW stuff from it and monetising it. Who knows? It could happen.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/21 11:19:42


Post by: dadamowsky


Aash wrote:

I’m not 100% convinced that it wouldn’t be profitable though. I’ve no stats to support this, but it’s not inconceivable that there are potential customers dissuaded from buying into the hobby when they learn the starter book (BRB) is not valid and they need to also buy CA and download a bunch of FAQs. I think there is value in lowering the barriers to entry, and this would be one way of doing it.

That being said, I doubt it’ll ever happen.


I obviously don't know GW financial flows and calculations. But from my humble experience as an artist in touch with game dev and physical publishing worlds, I can say this: physical products are a pain in the ass to plan, sell and be reliably profitable. I imagine having additional factors of the shifting content (living ruleset in our case) is only worsening the things. In this model we should be releasing new BRBs and codices with every CA at least - that would drag not only PR trouble of the "why do I have to buy the same book each year", but all the products that are tied (starter sets, collector editions, whatnot) are also demanding to be reissued. With the outdated unsold books and boxes having to be trashed and recycled. It is a logistical and financial hell to plan I imagine, and hence why I don't expect it.

 Aenar wrote:
40K is incredibly more complex than AoS regarding list building. Battlescribe crashes or slows down a lot sometimes (at least it used to).
I doubt that GW will provide a 40K "warscroll builder" anytime soon, as it would require some people dedicated on working on only that. They are fine with Battlescribe existing and providing that service, to the point that even the official GW tournaments I've attended did require the lists to be submitted to be done in Battlescribe.
That said, digital rules is the way to go. Codices that get automatically updated FAQs, erratas, points and hyperlinks between different rules and pages should be the standard in 2020.


If Battlescribe can maintain the whole database, so can a native and dedicated GW app. What we are really missing in BS to complete the rules content-wise are stratagems and... I guess that's all? Everything else is covered by a freemium app created for several game systems, including a simple dice tool. Creating such a product to be professional and at the level we expect from the GW would of course take some investment, but honestly... what doesn't?


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/21 11:42:19


Post by: MorglumNecksnapper



I think anything they will announce will be for things far, far, down the line.

It's nice they show us our new toys (Mechanicum, Fabius etc.), but how are they - smartly - going to release it?

Even if they put some weeks between physical releases it's gonna take quite some time till things are back to normal.

And 9th? 99% isn't playing right now, we haven't had time to use all PA stuff, 9th would be overkill in my book.

So announcing either models or a new edition will get them into release 'problems'. And even if they solve those things in a positive way, most of us aren't even playing right now.

Don't get me wrong, I'll be watching the big announcement for sure, hoping for cool new stuff, but I don't see us getting/using any of it anytime soon. :(


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/21 11:51:48


Post by: Dudeface


MorglumNecksnapper wrote:

I think anything they will announce will be for things far, far, down the line.

It's nice they show us our new toys (Mechanicum, Fabius etc.), but how are they - smartly - going to release it?

Even if they put some weeks between physical releases it's gonna take quite some time till things are back to normal.

And 9th? 99% isn't playing right now, we haven't had time to use all PA stuff, 9th would be overkill in my book.

So announcing either models or a new edition will get them into release 'problems'. And even if they solve those things in a positive way, most of us aren't even playing right now.

Don't get me wrong, I'll be watching the big announcement for sure, hoping for cool new stuff, but I don't see us getting/using any of it anytime soon. :(


But that's OK, better to have something to look forwards to and keep the community engaged rather than radio silence for 4-5 months.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/21 13:11:30


Post by: Pointer5


We might get a new edition on Saturday. We will probably get a big new necron leader maybe some necron model updates. I think the BIG BIG announcement will be that Squats will be brought back.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/21 15:43:49


Post by: techsoldaten


Here's a deductive perspective: we've seen shipping manifests for large numbers of books, more than the PA releases. I think that's 9th edition.

While GW could hold back on releasing 9th edition until PA is done... if PA and the current Codexes are compatible with 9th edition, why would they? The company needs to make up for a couple months of lost sales, they also need to confirm the financial impact shutdowns have had on their customer base. It would make more sense to speed up the PA release schedule and get on with things.

I'm guessing GW is about to catch up with where they should have been on their release schedule. We're going to see Necrons, Fabius, and a lot of models for specialty games. We're going to get some insights on when the remaining PA books are coming out and the release of 9th edition.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 01:39:37


Post by: macluvin


Good thing my 6th edition chaos space marine codex wasn’t invalidated between 6th and 7th... you may be able to use your book but I would rather have to buy another codex and a supplement than go through another 7th edition where my codex is a glorified reprint of my 6th edition codex... I like the part where list building became fun right before they blew it all up XD I doubt its a new edition. If it is it will be written by the same dudes that wrote 8th. And it will have the same faq/errata nightmare we have now. And the same rapidly accelerating power creep (poor nids...) Unless they have been writing a new edition this whole edition, the flaws in telling a squad of interns with limited experience in these matters to choke another edition at the drop of a hat like they did 8th along with all these supplements is going to give you the same half cooked results riddled with logical infallacies and stupid combinations that were not intended that an 8 year old can figure out and exploit (I’m looking at the moron that wrote the latest space marine update). GW was fairly certain that this edition was THE edition to end all 40k editions. I doubt a few years have taught them otherwise AND gave them sufficient development time and resources to adequately develop a new edition. I would love to see a new edition though. There are some things the game seems to be lacking. If the big announcement was a patch/overhaul of 8th ala an 8.5 edition, I can believe that.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 03:53:45


Post by: Brunius


I haven't even played 8th ed yet!


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 03:55:58


Post by: Amishprn86


 Brunius wrote:
I haven't even played 8th ed yet!


Its been 3yrs lol


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 04:21:49


Post by: Vaktathi


I kinda think the sweet spot for the 8th edition as a whole (if not for certain individual armies) was right about late summer last year. I suspect that if we do get a new edition soon, unless they do another full reboot and redesign the armies as part of the bargain, we're probably going to largely have the same issues we have now. We may get tweaks to certain mechanics like CP regen and some detachment/allies shenanigans, and I'd love to see some more developed terrain rules, but ultimately the game is still going to have extreme problems with scale at both ends and insanely overdeveloped levels of firepower and layered special rules and patched together armies requiring multiple sources for some time.



Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 04:49:38


Post by: AngryAngel80


For comedy sake, I am going to predict this weekend the announcement will be the CEO removes this face, to show it was a mask and really it was Kirby all along !!! Then they will announce loving new price adjustments across the whole of all their systems followed by a one month period where we can buy it all before the rise as a special pandemic sale.

The full complete phase out of the old marines, all in one fell swoop and the admission Xeno is all just side enemies for the Imperials to kill and they will all be phased into one super large codex called " Enemies of the Imperium " To make room for ever more and amazing Primaris Marine models.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 06:20:41


Post by: Moriarty


Don’t tempt Fate :-j


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 06:26:48


Post by: Siegfriedfr


Maybe they'll announce a digital paid-service giving access to constantly up-to-date rules

Profitable + practical


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 06:41:22


Post by: Orange Knight


There seems to be a lot of buzz around a 9th edition announcement alongside a new starter box featuring Marines and Necrons.

The new edition won't be a complete re-write of rules but instead tidy up the game, amend some things and expand on others.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 EnTyme wrote:
I'm going to say the same thing I did in the N&R thread: whether or not 8th edition rulebooks are invalidated, announcing a new edition while you're still trying release supplements for the current edition would be bad marketing. Some people declare codices obsolete as soon as the FAQ is released.


Not if those supplaments remain fully compatible.

If this new edition is an expansion/consolidation of current core rules then it won't be a problem.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 06:49:38


Post by: JohnnyHell


 Orange Knight wrote:
There seems to be a lot of buzz around a 9th edition announcement alongside a new starter box featuring Marines and Necrons.

The new edition won't be a complete re-write of rules but instead tidy up the game, amend some things and expand on others.


There’s not so much buzz as echoes increasing in magnitide. No decent evidence backing it up, just speculation growing in volume and being passed off as rumour.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 06:54:15


Post by: p5freak


Siegfriedfr wrote:
Maybe they'll announce a digital paid-service giving access to constantly up-to-date rules

Profitable + practical


Everything that has been said in this thread, no matter how unlikely it sounds, is more likely to happen than this.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 07:32:58


Post by: Corrode


macluvin wrote:
Good thing my 6th edition chaos space marine codex wasn’t invalidated between 6th and 7th... you may be able to use your book but I would rather have to buy another codex and a supplement than go through another 7th edition where my codex is a glorified reprint of my 6th edition codex... I like the part where list building became fun right before they blew it all up XD I doubt its a new edition. If it is it will be written by the same dudes that wrote 8th. And it will have the same faq/errata nightmare we have now. And the same rapidly accelerating power creep (poor nids...) Unless they have been writing a new edition this whole edition, the flaws in telling a squad of interns with limited experience in these matters to choke another edition at the drop of a hat like they did 8th along with all these supplements is going to give you the same half cooked results riddled with logical infallacies and stupid combinations that were not intended that an 8 year old can figure out and exploit (I’m looking at the moron that wrote the latest space marine update). GW was fairly certain that this edition was THE edition to end all 40k editions. I doubt a few years have taught them otherwise AND gave them sufficient development time and resources to adequately develop a new edition. I would love to see a new edition though. There are some things the game seems to be lacking. If the big announcement was a patch/overhaul of 8th ala an 8.5 edition, I can believe that.


Most of what I'm getting from this post is that you don't actually know what an intern is.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 09:12:11


Post by: Jidmah


If they announce 9th edition, everyone will stop buying stuff until the new edition drops, like they have done after every other edition announcement so far.

That's something really stupid to do when you got multiple books and model in your pipeline, especially during a pandemic where getting cash in to keep your company running is the top priority for everyone.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 09:25:02


Post by: Deadnight


I am genuinely looking forward to the release (FINALLY!!!!) of Codex: Primaris Lieutenants. Ive waited so long for this. This is quite literally the only thing that could justify this much hype for an announcement.



Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 09:32:54


Post by: Dudeface


 Jidmah wrote:
If they announce 9th edition, everyone will stop buying stuff until the new edition drops, like they have done after every other edition announcement so far.

That's something really stupid to do when you got multiple books and model in your pipeline, especially during a pandemic where getting cash in to keep your company running is the top priority for everyone.


But I will still be buying engine war for my daemons and pariah for my sisters, because I will still need those to play those armies fully in 9th assuming it's not a complete clean slate again.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 09:39:16


Post by: Jidmah


I fairly sure that quite some people wouldn't until they know whether the corresponding army is worth fielding anymore in 9th.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 09:51:51


Post by: Dudeface


 Jidmah wrote:
I fairly sure that quite some people wouldn't until they know whether the corresponding army is worth fielding anymore in 9th.


I wouldn't bin my entire collection based on how good/bad it might be with a minor edition revision, but then I'm not a competitive meta chaser. But I'd say those people are the minority.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 09:58:46


Post by: Sim-Life


I'm curious as to why so many people think 9th means codexes will be invalidated? Is it just new players who think every edition is a major shift like 7th to 8th was?


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 10:00:55


Post by: Jidmah


We don't actually know how much an edition might shake up the game. Basically anything in the BRB could undergo massive changes, including how stratagems, psychic powers and army building works - the very content you can expect from PA.
A book of stratagems is a lot less interesting if you can use only one or two per turn.

If 9th would be announced, I'd sure wait for 9th before buying War of the Spider for my DG.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Sim-Life wrote:
I'm curious as to why so many people think 9th means codexes will be invalidated? Is it just new players who think every edition is a major shift like 7th to 8th was?

An army/codex can easily be turned to gak by an edition change without being technical incompatible.
As an ork player, I m speaking from experience.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 10:03:57


Post by: Orange Knight


I expect it to be the same as the 6th to 7th jump. An update, not a re-write.

I imagine a lot of players might be new to the hobby, their only experience of edition changes being 7th to 8th. Prior to that you could use a 3rd edition codex to play a game in 7th edition so the changes were incremental,


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 10:04:23


Post by: Dudeface


I'd still rather have access to more stratagems, warlord traits etc than less. Doesn't matter how many you can use, having more options is better.

Again, them radically changing what CP's do (as an example) doesn't change the models on my shelf and if the newest rules are valid, why wouldn't you want them?


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 10:10:24


Post by: Jidmah


You obviously haven't had the pleasure of getting an army update that basically read "HAHAHAHAH THANKS FOR THE MONEY SUCKER, GO BUY MORE MODELS! - Kirby" like the ork supplement in 7th did.

There are rules not worth spending money on. If PA should directly be followed by 9th, why wouldn't you wait until you knew?


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 10:14:04


Post by: Orange Knight


Those are exceptions and not the rule. The 7th to 8th jump was the first time all datasheets and core rules were re-written in 15 years?


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 10:15:46


Post by: Jidmah


 Orange Knight wrote:
Those are exceptions and not the rule. The 7th to 8th jump was the first time all datasheets and core rules were re-written in 15 years?

You must not be understanding me correctly.

Your army can be completely unplayable after a new edition, even without rewriting datasheets. It has happened before. From 4th to 5th. From 5th to 6th. From 6th to 7th. It can happen again.

That's why people stop buying stuff when a new edition is announced - they don't want to waste their money on things that might be useless in the next edition.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 10:20:55


Post by: Orange Knight


 Jidmah wrote:
 Orange Knight wrote:
Those are exceptions and not the rule. The 7th to 8th jump was the first time all datasheets and core rules were re-written in 15 years?

You must not be understanding me correctly.

Your army can be completely unplayable after a new edition, even without rewriting datasheets. It has happened before. From 4th to 5th. From 5th to 6th. From 6th to 7th. It can happen again.

That's why people stop buying stuff when a new edition is announced - they don't want to waste their money on things that might be useless in the next edition.


1: It hasn't been announced yet, so at the moment you are creating a self panic and fear of the future. You are choosing to expect the worst possible outcome for you personally. That's entirely on you.

2: Once it is announced we will know what to expect. I am willing to put money on it being a consolidated, tidy rule-set with better terrain interaction. An 8.5 edition, if you will.

Let's wait and see.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 10:25:13


Post by: Jidmah


 Orange Knight wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
 Orange Knight wrote:
Those are exceptions and not the rule. The 7th to 8th jump was the first time all datasheets and core rules were re-written in 15 years?

You must not be understanding me correctly.

Your army can be completely unplayable after a new edition, even without rewriting datasheets. It has happened before. From 4th to 5th. From 5th to 6th. From 6th to 7th. It can happen again.

That's why people stop buying stuff when a new edition is announced - they don't want to waste their money on things that might be useless in the next edition.


1: It hasn't been announced yet, so at the moment you are creating a self panic and fear of the future.

2: Once it is announced we will know what to expect. I am willing to put money on it being a consolidated, tidy rule-set with better terrain interaction. An 8.5 edition, if you will.

Let's wait and see.

Please read my full argument, you must have missed it.
I said that announcing a new edition is unwise because people will stop buying things.
People will stop buying things because there is a real chance of purchases being invalidated independently of the magnitude of the rules change.
This uncludes both PA books and new models.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 10:27:32


Post by: Orange Knight


It's only unwise if people don't know what to expect.

If they come out of the gate and say the new edition is 100% compatible with existing and upcoming books then it isn't a problem.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 10:27:33


Post by: Jidmah


 Orange Knight wrote:
It's only unwise if people don't know what to expect.

If they come out of the gate and say the new edition is 100% compatible with existing and upcoming books then it isn't a problem.

How many edition changes have you been part of?


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 10:37:32


Post by: Orange Knight


3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8

Multiple though fantasy as well. I used to play Warriors of Chaos, Slaanesh themed.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 10:58:26


Post by: tneva82


 Jidmah wrote:

Please read my full argument, you must have missed it.
I said that announcing a new edition is unwise because people will stop buying things.
People will stop buying things because there is a real chance of purchases being invalidated independently of the magnitude of the rules change.
This uncludes both PA books and new models.


If by invalidated you mean becomes bad then we live in age when that happens now about 3 times a year before even factoring new books. Spring faq(well okay this time corona seems to have killed that), autumn faq and in particular CA invalidates purchases that way(whole point. Make good units bad, bad units good and merry purchase round starts again). Doesn't seem to have stopped players from buying despite knowing units are getting invalidated(as in made bad) in few months time.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 11:02:48


Post by: Aenar


 Jidmah wrote:
 Orange Knight wrote:
Those are exceptions and not the rule. The 7th to 8th jump was the first time all datasheets and core rules were re-written in 15 years?

You must not be understanding me correctly.

Your army can be completely unplayable after a new edition, even without rewriting datasheets. It has happened before. From 4th to 5th. From 5th to 6th. From 6th to 7th. It can happen again.

That's why people stop buying stuff when a new edition is announced - they don't want to waste their money on things that might be useless in the next edition.

There's also people who care little about the meta and just buy stuff they like.
I'm planning to get some SM Devastators and Drop Pods because I like how they look and I don't have any in my small SM army. I know perfectly well that they are going to be less useful as time goes by and ultimately be phased out as they are oldmarines.
A lot of Tau stuff I have on my purchase list is not even remotely useful nor playable right now (fortifications above all), but my goal is to have a complete Tau collection so their usefulness 6-12-18 months from now is irrelevant.

Those who run behind the meta trying to be on top of it are going to lose every time, it changes too quickly compared to the time needed to buy, assemble and paint the minis. This is true for both the uber-competitive players and for the newbies that ask which units are good right now because they are not sure what to buy next. The competitive players either constantly swap and borrow armies or have large collections that allow them to play with virtually anything.
Basing your purchases on rules is not very smart, imho. Just buy what you like aesthetically and what you think you're going to like playing with.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 11:26:34


Post by: Jidmah


 Orange Knight wrote:
3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8

Multiple though fantasy as well. I used to play Warriors of Chaos, Slaanesh themed.


Great, so in any of the transitions from third to seventh, you must inevitably have had that game where you fielded some units that worked good enough so far, but in the new edition simply failed to perform.
Because certain weapons simply weren't good anymore at killing the things they used to kill well, because your psychic powers were suddenly something completely different, a defensive mechanism of a durable unit was rendered ineffective, a unit type was changed, a combo your army had broke apart, because transport rules were change once again or because there suddenly was a completely new mechanic that changed how shooting or assault works.
Depending on the size of your collection, you were probably even forced to get new units to fill the holes, or dust off things that weren't doing so hot until now.
Especially things whose success is very closely linked to how current edition works - for example a smash captains or hordes of cheap troops - might become worthless next edition.

Stuff like that has happened to all armies in all transitions, despite the rules remaining "100% compatible", and it's unreasonable to expect the next edition to be any different.
The only big difference this time around is that there is a non-zero chance of GW actually changing and adding rules or reducing points to get units back off the shelf over the course of the edition.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
tneva82 wrote:
If by invalidated you mean becomes bad then we live in age when that happens now about 3 times a year before even factoring new books. Spring faq(well okay this time corona seems to have killed that), autumn faq and in particular CA invalidates purchases that way(whole point. Make good units bad, bad units good and merry purchase round starts again). Doesn't seem to have stopped players from buying despite knowing units are getting invalidated(as in made bad) in few months time.

I don't think there are any instances of units being invalidated over the course of 8th outside of the commissar and conscripts.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 11:45:20


Post by: Tyel


Mixed views really.

I think some players will be nervous - but as said, we live in a CA world now.

Buying up a 2k list of the current hotness isn't really the same as it used to be. You shouldn't get the same whinging of "I've assembled my perfect cavalry army of just cavalry because cavalry are overpowered and have been for the last 10~ years, omg what is this 8th, my army is trash now, screw WHFB I'm never playing again".

But a few key rules changes could significantly impact the meta - and if you are the sort of person who builds armies by having a 2k points list, no more, no less, you are likely to want to see how the dust settles before continuing.

On the other hand if you decided you were an Ork player 20+ years ago, and have just been adding a few ork units to your collection every 6 months, this isn't likely to put you off.

The general view will be whether this edition is better or worse than the last, and the according hype.

But then again - I remain suspect they'll announce 9th edition. Or if so I'd expect it to be a long way out. Very unlikely - but I'd more expect just big Necron wave - possibly as a Necron/Sisters box. Then towards the end of the year, another release.

Then you do 9th edition - with the mandatory Space Marines - in 2021.

But I could be totally wrong in 24 hours.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 11:46:08


Post by: Wayniac


When they announced the updated edition of AOS did it have a strong impact on people buying things at that time? I can't remember but since I would expect any new 40k edition to be like AOS 2.0 it would likely work out the same way.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 11:54:52


Post by: Jidmah


 Aenar wrote:
Just buy what you like aesthetically and what you think you're going to like playing with.

That last part is what I'm talking about, not about winning tournaments.
I fully understand getting drop pods and devs. But even if the aren't the most efficient units in the game, devs will still be shooting weapons and destroying things, a drop pod will still be delivering some oldmarine unit to where your opponent doesn't want them.

However, there are units which don't do what they are supposed to do. They might look nice, but you won't like playing with them.
Let's take this guy as an example: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Ork-Mek-2018
Most non-ork players probably don't even know he exists. Most ork players don't have him.
Why? Because he doesn't do anything. He has a 12" pistol which is as likely to hurt himself as anyone else and can restore one wound to an ork vehicle within 1" - assuming he somehow managed to run after them on foot and the paper-thin ork vehicle manage to not just get destroyed outright. You can even make him worse by spending points on a melee weapon which he can no longer use properly in this edition.
He is one of those units which lost its purpose between editions and lost the one option which made him worth considering (as brigade filler, mind you) to legends.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 12:11:45


Post by: Orange Knight


@Jidmah

I think you need to stop fearing the worst. Units rise and fall in power every 3 months as FAQs, updates and Erratas are introduced. A new edition that alters some rules is nothing different.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 12:20:13


Post by: Dudeface


 Jidmah wrote:
 Aenar wrote:
Just buy what you like aesthetically and what you think you're going to like playing with.

That last part is what I'm talking about, not about winning tournaments.
I fully understand getting drop pods and devs. But even if the aren't the most efficient units in the game, devs will still be shooting weapons and destroying things, a drop pod will still be delivering some oldmarine unit to where your opponent doesn't want them.

However, there are units which don't do what they are supposed to do. They might look nice, but you won't like playing with them.
Let's take this guy as an example: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Ork-Mek-2018
Most non-ork players probably don't even know he exists. Most ork players don't have him.
Why? Because he doesn't do anything. He has a 12" pistol which is as likely to hurt himself as anyone else and can restore one wound to an ork vehicle within 1" - assuming he somehow managed to run after them on foot and the paper-thin ork vehicle manage to not just get destroyed outright. You can even make him worse by spending points on a melee weapon which he can no longer use properly in this edition.
He is one of those units which lost its purpose between editions and lost the one option which made him worth considering (as brigade filler, mind you) to legends.


And if a new edition is announced that is fully compatible with existing books (i.e. none of the datasheets change, the codex doesn't, saga of the beast doesn't), makes you think his role or how you use him would change? They could make it so all vehicle keyword units become immune to less than s6 or something dumb and he'd become more useful, but his role and abilities don't change.

Now you will only care about this if you're into a try hard competitive race with your local players, for the vast majority of people they won't be sat at home thinking "wow I'm glad I never bought anything for that ork army just in case all the books and rules we were told will still work do in fact still work".


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 12:40:38


Post by: Jidmah


Dudeface wrote:
And if a new edition is announced that is fully compatible with existing books (i.e. none of the datasheets change, the codex doesn't, saga of the beast doesn't), makes you think his role or how you use him would change? They could make it so all vehicle keyword units become immune to less than s6 or something dumb and he'd become more useful, but his role and abilities don't change.

You just lack imagination. If, for example, the basic rules would change to have transports to be considered in base contact with the models they are transporting the mek would immediately have a reason to exist again.

Now you will only care about this if you're into a try hard competitive race with your local players, for the vast majority of people they won't be sat at home thinking "wow I'm glad I never bought anything for that ork army just in case all the books and rules we were told will still work do in fact still work".

Nice ad hominem attack. Out of arguments, are we? How about you attack the argument and not the person.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 12:42:16


Post by: Sgt_Smudge


 Orange Knight wrote:
A new edition that alters some rules is nothing different.
You're assuming that's what 9th will be (if it is coming, that is, which I don't think it is).

As much as you can call people ridiculous for expecting the worst from a new edition, you would do well to consider that the rules change might be more substantial than in previous cases. After all, it was the most recent edition change that caused a great deal of reworking. What's to say the same can't/won't happen?

I'm not making claims or predictions, but there's no backing behind claims like "there's no way it would be a drastic redesign!"


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 12:44:08


Post by: Jidmah


 Orange Knight wrote:
A new edition that alters some rules is nothing different.

And that is exactly where you are wrong. No one, not even the almighty people of dakka, can foresee the impact of changing core rules in its entirety. This is very different for the minor adjustments that FAQs and CA are.



Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 12:45:08


Post by: Aash


Whether or not you or I would be inclined to buy more models or PA books etc isn’t really the issue. The timing of announcement of a new edition is a business decision. If the GW board think that such an announcement is likely to result in reduced sales in the short term then they would probably not make that announcement. If they think it won’t negatively impact sales they might make the announcement. If they think it would increase sales they will make the announcement.

It seems to me from reading this thread that there is a proportion of customers who would be likely to reduce their purchasing, and a proportion who would continue as normal. Nobody seems to think the announcement of a new edition would increase sales. Seems to me the smart business decision would be not to make the announcement until PA and the current slate of releases has run its course.

Maybe I’m wrong, we’ll find out tomorrow. But it’s really not about whether you think people shouldn’t be dissuaded from buying new stuff, only whether or not they will be.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 12:48:43


Post by: dadamowsky


ITT: a lot of doomsaying without us even knowing how the things are going to happen, or even if


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 13:03:40


Post by: Dudeface


 Jidmah wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
And if a new edition is announced that is fully compatible with existing books (i.e. none of the datasheets change, the codex doesn't, saga of the beast doesn't), makes you think his role or how you use him would change? They could make it so all vehicle keyword units become immune to less than s6 or something dumb and he'd become more useful, but his role and abilities don't change.

You just lack imagination. If, for example, the basic rules would change to have transports to be considered in base contact with the models they are transporting the mek would immediately have a reason to exist again.

Now you will only care about this if you're into a try hard competitive race with your local players, for the vast majority of people they won't be sat at home thinking "wow I'm glad I never bought anything for that ork army just in case all the books and rules we were told will still work do in fact still work".

Nice ad hominem attack. Out of arguments, are we? How about you attack the argument and not the person.


Nah, I just don't fancy beating my head against a wall. Simple facts are my army will still be the same as it is in my cases in 3 months time more or less, rules that will be compatible between editions are safe to buy i.e. not going to be made redundant and I wouldn't withhold just because I'm scared something might not be OP enough in a couple of months. I'd argue the same can be said of a lot of the player base as well who have an existing collection they want to use to the fullest, without being scared of their units not being "good enough" to own.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 13:17:48


Post by: Jidmah


Dudeface wrote:Nah, I just don't fancy beating my head against a wall. Simple facts are my army will still be the same as it is in my cases in 3 months time more or less, rules that will be compatible between editions are safe to buy i.e. not going to be made redundant and I wouldn't withhold just because I'm scared something might not be OP enough in a couple of months. I'd argue the same can be said of a lot of the player base as well who have an existing collection they want to use to the fullest, without being scared of their units not being "good enough" to own.

I marked the parts where you deliberately misrepresent my argument in yellow.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 13:28:26


Post by: Kayback


It depends if they AoS the 40K universe. That saw armies made redundant, wholesale.



Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 13:40:36


Post by: Eldarsif


 Jidmah wrote:
 Orange Knight wrote:
It's only unwise if people don't know what to expect.

If they come out of the gate and say the new edition is 100% compatible with existing and upcoming books then it isn't a problem.

How many edition changes have you been part of?


I was going to ask the same as GW has announced editions time and time again regardless of whether it invalidates something or not. It's the reason why we are currently at 8th edition 40k, ended at 8th edition in WHFB, and are at 2nd edition AoS.

My guess would be that new editions and starters sell like hotcakes so they are easy money for GW.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 13:41:18


Post by: Dudeface


Jidmah wrote:
Please read my full argument, you must have missed it.
I said that announcing a new edition is unwise because people will stop buying things.
People will stop buying things because there is a real chance of purchases being invalidated independently of the magnitude of the rules change.
This uncludes both PA books and new models.


Jidmah wrote:
Dudeface wrote:Nah, I just don't fancy beating my head against a wall. Simple facts are my army will still be the same as it is in my cases in 3 months time more or less, rules that will be compatible between editions are safe to buy i.e. not going to be made redundant and I wouldn't withhold just because I'm scared something might not be OP enough in a couple of months. I'd argue the same can be said of a lot of the player base as well who have an existing collection they want to use to the fullest, without being scared of their units not being "good enough" to own.

I marked the parts where you deliberately misrepresent my argument in yellow.


Please explain how purchases are invalidated independently of rules changes unless you're explicitly referring to their respective power level. If it can be used then it isn't invalidated by definition.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 14:05:47


Post by: BaconCatBug


My prediction is that they will announce that the announcement of Engine War will happen.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 14:10:09


Post by: Orange Knight


 Jidmah wrote:
 Orange Knight wrote:
A new edition that alters some rules is nothing different.

And that is exactly where you are wrong. No one, not even the almighty people of dakka, can foresee the impact of changing core rules in its entirety. This is very different for the minor adjustments that FAQs and CA are.



Who says all core rules will be changed? I imagine they'll tidy up some wording and put the FAQs and Erratas into the main rules.

But maybe you're right. Maybe we should all spend the next 24 hours in fear, worrying over future rules for a game we play.

As for increasing sales, the buzz created by a new edition will absolutely result in more sales in the short and medium turn.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 14:16:37


Post by: Aash


 Orange Knight wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
 Orange Knight wrote:
A new edition that alters some rules is nothing different.

And that is exactly where you are wrong. No one, not even the almighty people of dakka, can foresee the impact of changing core rules in its entirety. This is very different for the minor adjustments that FAQs and CA are.



Who says all core rules will be changed? I imagine they'll tidy up some wording and put the FAQs and Erratas into the main rules.

But maybe you're right. Maybe we should all spend the next 24 hours in fear, worrying over future rules for a game we play.

As for increasing sales, the buzz created by a new edition will absolutely result in more sales in the short and medium turn.


I very much doubt announcing a new edition would see an increase of sales in the period between the announcement and the release of said new edition. After release, absolutely, but in the mean time, there are a series of releases planned which might suffer loss of sales as a result of such an announcement.

I’m not saying that a new edition isn’t coming, just that announcing it now seems unlikely.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 14:17:48


Post by: Dudeface


Aash wrote:
 Orange Knight wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
 Orange Knight wrote:
A new edition that alters some rules is nothing different.

And that is exactly where you are wrong. No one, not even the almighty people of dakka, can foresee the impact of changing core rules in its entirety. This is very different for the minor adjustments that FAQs and CA are.



Who says all core rules will be changed? I imagine they'll tidy up some wording and put the FAQs and Erratas into the main rules.

But maybe you're right. Maybe we should all spend the next 24 hours in fear, worrying over future rules for a game we play.

As for increasing sales, the buzz created by a new edition will absolutely result in more sales in the short and medium turn.


I very much doubt announcing a new edition would see an increase of sales in the period between the announcement and the release of said new edition. After release, absolutely, but in the mean time, there are a series of releases planned which might suffer loss of sales as a result of such an announcement.

I’m not saying that a new edition isn’t coming, just that announcing it now seems unlikely.


This is the heart of the discussion, if it's a minor revision and all current books are compatible, why would sales drop?


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 14:21:09


Post by: Orange Knight


If GW advertise an updated edition which has a tighter set of rules and a clean up from the clutter over the last 3 years, whilst keeping all existing books fully compatible you can guarantee players will be excited and that will lead to more sales.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 14:21:25


Post by: Aash


Dudeface wrote:
Aash wrote:
 Orange Knight wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
 Orange Knight wrote:
A new edition that alters some rules is nothing different.

And that is exactly where you are wrong. No one, not even the almighty people of dakka, can foresee the impact of changing core rules in its entirety. This is very different for the minor adjustments that FAQs and CA are.



Who says all core rules will be changed? I imagine they'll tidy up some wording and put the FAQs and Erratas into the main rules.

But maybe you're right. Maybe we should all spend the next 24 hours in fear, worrying over future rules for a game we play.

As for increasing sales, the buzz created by a new edition will absolutely result in more sales in the short and medium turn.


I very much doubt announcing a new edition would see an increase of sales in the period between the announcement and the release of said new edition. After release, absolutely, but in the mean time, there are a series of releases planned which might suffer loss of sales as a result of such an announcement.

I’m not saying that a new edition isn’t coming, just that announcing it now seems unlikely.


This is the heart of the discussion, if it's a minor revision and all current books are compatible, why would sales drop?


Sales would drop because of the uncertainty presented by an announcement of a forthcoming new edition. In most markets, uncertainty leads to a drop in consumer confidence, which is expressed by a fall in sales. It certainly wouldn’t increase sales in the period between announcement and launch, so why risk losing sales when the release of new models/rules publications without such an announcement would be expected to result in an uptick in sales.

Just seems an unnecessary risk.

Edit:

GW has historically seen a drop in sales in the lead up to a new edition followed by an increase after the release. I see nothing to indicate that this pattern is likely to change.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 14:24:44


Post by: Kanluwen


 Orange Knight wrote:
If GW advertise an updated edition which has a tighter set of rules and a clean up from the clutter over the last 3 years, whilst keeping all existing books fully compatible you can guarantee players will be excited and that will lead to more sales.

Hahaha, no it wouldn't. You'd have people complaining about the fact that X army didn't get "new items!!!!11!!" or how it was all "phoned in". We literally just saw this nonsense with Psychic Awakening, where if a faction didn't get a certain amount of things, it was "garbage".


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 14:25:37


Post by: Orange Knight


@Aash

So your one and only factor in this hobby is knowing the power of your units? Maybe if you fear the worse.

What was great in 6th was still great in 7th. 8th to 9th can be the same.

If they say existing books are still valid then it's only personal insecurity that might get in the way.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 14:27:13


Post by: Aash


 Orange Knight wrote:
So your one and only factor in this hobby is knowing the power of your units? Maybe if you fear the worse.

What was great in 6th was still great in 7th. 8th to 9th can be the same.

If they say existing books are still valid then it's only personal insecurity that might get in the way.


Exactly!! And personal insecurity would likely result in less sales.

I never said it was my one and only factor. I barely play, I primarily do the hobby and only occasionally play the odd game. It’s got nothing to do with my personal preference but everything to do with projected sales and revenue.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 14:27:16


Post by: Kanluwen


Aash wrote:

Sales would drop because of the uncertainty presented by an announcement of a forthcoming new edition. In most markets, uncertainty leads to a drop in consumer confidence, which is expressed by a fall in sales. It certainly wouldn’t increase sales in the period between announcement and launch, so why risk losing sales when the release of new models/rules publications without such an announcement would be expected to result in an uptick in sales.

Just seems an unnecessary risk.

Edit:

GW has historically seen a drop in sales in the lead up to a new edition followed by an increase after the release. I see nothing to indicate that this pattern is likely to change.


I'd love to see some facts back up that anecdotal opinion. If anything, that drop in sales is minute as people panic-buy things they read rumored on dumpsterfire rumor sites like BoLS/Spikeybits/Faeit are "getting squatted".


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 14:38:07


Post by: Sgt. Cortez


I'm with dudeface here. No Edition change so far made me regret buying a model, everything is still usable. Some of my DG models moved to CSM only, but who cares? I've got all special weapons magnetized, so... Melters had a hard time this edition, but their time will come again sooner or later.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 14:42:30


Post by: Slipspace


Worth pointing out as well that even though edition changes inevitably change how many units function it's not a one-way thing and some units/armies get much better while some get worse. the switch to WHFB 8th edition, for example, very briefly saw Orcs (traditionally one of the weaker armies in the system) become extremely powerful almost entirely because of one of their spells.

The people most often hurt by edition changes that don't invalidate the previous edition's rules are the meta-chasers and anyone else with very limited collections for each army. Anyone with a fairly sizeable main army will likely not be too badly hurt by an edition change since most of the time the new edition just reshuffles which units are considered good and which are bad.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 15:26:03


Post by: Wayniac


Slipspace wrote:
Worth pointing out as well that even though edition changes inevitably change how many units function it's not a one-way thing and some units/armies get much better while some get worse. the switch to WHFB 8th edition, for example, very briefly saw Orcs (traditionally one of the weaker armies in the system) become extremely powerful almost entirely because of one of their spells.

The people most often hurt by edition changes that don't invalidate the previous edition's rules are the meta-chasers and anyone else with very limited collections for each army. Anyone with a fairly sizeable main army will likely not be too badly hurt by an edition change since most of the time the new edition just reshuffles which units are considered good and which are bad.
I honestly think the meta-chasers are hurt the least just because they chase the meta. So they bounce from army to army based on what's "good" in the tournament scene and don't care about anything else. The people who are hurt the most IMHO are the ones who actually like a faction for its lore/aesthetic/etc. as they are the ones most likely to buy units they like rather than units that are good so run a greater risk of their purchases either being turned into total garbage or making them TFG overnight if the unit in question gets huge buffs.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 15:48:11


Post by: Aenar


Wayniac wrote:
Slipspace wrote:
Worth pointing out as well that even though edition changes inevitably change how many units function it's not a one-way thing and some units/armies get much better while some get worse. the switch to WHFB 8th edition, for example, very briefly saw Orcs (traditionally one of the weaker armies in the system) become extremely powerful almost entirely because of one of their spells.

The people most often hurt by edition changes that don't invalidate the previous edition's rules are the meta-chasers and anyone else with very limited collections for each army. Anyone with a fairly sizeable main army will likely not be too badly hurt by an edition change since most of the time the new edition just reshuffles which units are considered good and which are bad.
I honestly think the meta-chasers are hurt the least just because they chase the meta. So they bounce from army to army based on what's "good" in the tournament scene and don't care about anything else. The people who are hurt the most IMHO are the ones who actually like a faction for its lore/aesthetic/etc. as they are the ones most likely to buy units they like rather than units that are good so run a greater risk of their purchases either being turned into total garbage or making them TFG overnight if the unit in question gets huge buffs.

But by buying units you like, you never lose (provided you don't have only 2000 points of stuff). Regardless of the direction the meta shifts to, you supposedly only have stuff you like and therefore you build a list with that.
I have fun at tournaments even if I don't field the latest hot combo of units, I try to build the most competitive list I can with the models I have and enjoy the time spent rolling dice. The other units with suboptimal rules get played in friendly games.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 16:20:38


Post by: AnomanderRake


 Orange Knight wrote:
...What was great in 6th was still great in 7th. 8th to 9th can be the same...


Jink nerf? GK Codex (and the general named character cull)? Any units that didn't get a formation dedicated to their use? Challenge-tank nerf? Closest-target casualties?

Plenty of stuff got way worse in 7e.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 17:31:50


Post by: Dudeface


 AnomanderRake wrote:
 Orange Knight wrote:
...What was great in 6th was still great in 7th. 8th to 9th can be the same...


Jink nerf? GK Codex (and the general named character cull)? Any units that didn't get a formation dedicated to their use? Challenge-tank nerf? Closest-target casualties?

Plenty of stuff got way worse in 7e.


But it wasn't invalidated.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 17:37:08


Post by: Kayback


Dudeface wrote:

But it wasn't invalidated.


Not completely but it could change how you need to structure your army.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 17:52:00


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


Dudeface wrote:
 AnomanderRake wrote:
 Orange Knight wrote:
...What was great in 6th was still great in 7th. 8th to 9th can be the same...


Jink nerf? GK Codex (and the general named character cull)? Any units that didn't get a formation dedicated to their use? Challenge-tank nerf? Closest-target casualties?

Plenty of stuff got way worse in 7e.


But it wasn't invalidated.

It's pretty invalidated if an army slightly functioning before cannot function the same.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Aenar wrote:
Wayniac wrote:
Slipspace wrote:
Worth pointing out as well that even though edition changes inevitably change how many units function it's not a one-way thing and some units/armies get much better while some get worse. the switch to WHFB 8th edition, for example, very briefly saw Orcs (traditionally one of the weaker armies in the system) become extremely powerful almost entirely because of one of their spells.

The people most often hurt by edition changes that don't invalidate the previous edition's rules are the meta-chasers and anyone else with very limited collections for each army. Anyone with a fairly sizeable main army will likely not be too badly hurt by an edition change since most of the time the new edition just reshuffles which units are considered good and which are bad.
I honestly think the meta-chasers are hurt the least just because they chase the meta. So they bounce from army to army based on what's "good" in the tournament scene and don't care about anything else. The people who are hurt the most IMHO are the ones who actually like a faction for its lore/aesthetic/etc. as they are the ones most likely to buy units they like rather than units that are good so run a greater risk of their purchases either being turned into total garbage or making them TFG overnight if the unit in question gets huge buffs.

But by buying units you like, you never lose (provided you don't have only 2000 points of stuff). Regardless of the direction the meta shifts to, you supposedly only have stuff you like and therefore you build a list with that.
I have fun at tournaments even if I don't field the latest hot combo of units, I try to build the most competitive list I can with the models I have and enjoy the time spent rolling dice. The other units with suboptimal rules get played in friendly games.

If your army is consistently underpowered that's not winning even metaphorically.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Orange Knight wrote:
@Aash

So your one and only factor in this hobby is knowing the power of your units? Maybe if you fear the worse.

What was great in 6th was still great in 7th. 8th to 9th can be the same.

If they say existing books are still valid then it's only personal insecurity that might get in the way.

The ignorance here is outstanding. Your name should be White Knight instead of Orange Knight.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 17:57:48


Post by: Dudeface


Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
 AnomanderRake wrote:
 Orange Knight wrote:
...What was great in 6th was still great in 7th. 8th to 9th can be the same...


Jink nerf? GK Codex (and the general named character cull)? Any units that didn't get a formation dedicated to their use? Challenge-tank nerf? Closest-target casualties?

Plenty of stuff got way worse in 7e.


But it wasn't invalidated.

It's pretty invalidated if an army slightly functioning before cannot function the same.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Aenar wrote:
Wayniac wrote:
Slipspace wrote:
Worth pointing out as well that even though edition changes inevitably change how many units function it's not a one-way thing and some units/armies get much better while some get worse. the switch to WHFB 8th edition, for example, very briefly saw Orcs (traditionally one of the weaker armies in the system) become extremely powerful almost entirely because of one of their spells.

The people most often hurt by edition changes that don't invalidate the previous edition's rules are the meta-chasers and anyone else with very limited collections for each army. Anyone with a fairly sizeable main army will likely not be too badly hurt by an edition change since most of the time the new edition just reshuffles which units are considered good and which are bad.
I honestly think the meta-chasers are hurt the least just because they chase the meta. So they bounce from army to army based on what's "good" in the tournament scene and don't care about anything else. The people who are hurt the most IMHO are the ones who actually like a faction for its lore/aesthetic/etc. as they are the ones most likely to buy units they like rather than units that are good so run a greater risk of their purchases either being turned into total garbage or making them TFG overnight if the unit in question gets huge buffs.

But by buying units you like, you never lose (provided you don't have only 2000 points of stuff). Regardless of the direction the meta shifts to, you supposedly only have stuff you like and therefore you build a list with that.
I have fun at tournaments even if I don't field the latest hot combo of units, I try to build the most competitive list I can with the models I have and enjoy the time spent rolling dice. The other units with suboptimal rules get played in friendly games.

If your army is consistently underpowered that's not winning even metaphorically.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Orange Knight wrote:
@Aash

So your one and only factor in this hobby is knowing the power of your units? Maybe if you fear the worse.

What was great in 6th was still great in 7th. 8th to 9th can be the same.

If they say existing books are still valid then it's only personal insecurity that might get in the way.

The ignorance here is outstanding. Your name should be White Knight instead of Orange Knight.


Its not invalidated the model, its invalidated your play style. Even then it probably just made it worse rather than completely invalidated it. Ofc for some people the opposite is true and their trash becomes amazing.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 18:01:18


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


Dudeface wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
 AnomanderRake wrote:
 Orange Knight wrote:
...What was great in 6th was still great in 7th. 8th to 9th can be the same...


Jink nerf? GK Codex (and the general named character cull)? Any units that didn't get a formation dedicated to their use? Challenge-tank nerf? Closest-target casualties?

Plenty of stuff got way worse in 7e.


But it wasn't invalidated.

It's pretty invalidated if an army slightly functioning before cannot function the same.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Aenar wrote:
Wayniac wrote:
Slipspace wrote:
Worth pointing out as well that even though edition changes inevitably change how many units function it's not a one-way thing and some units/armies get much better while some get worse. the switch to WHFB 8th edition, for example, very briefly saw Orcs (traditionally one of the weaker armies in the system) become extremely powerful almost entirely because of one of their spells.

The people most often hurt by edition changes that don't invalidate the previous edition's rules are the meta-chasers and anyone else with very limited collections for each army. Anyone with a fairly sizeable main army will likely not be too badly hurt by an edition change since most of the time the new edition just reshuffles which units are considered good and which are bad.
I honestly think the meta-chasers are hurt the least just because they chase the meta. So they bounce from army to army based on what's "good" in the tournament scene and don't care about anything else. The people who are hurt the most IMHO are the ones who actually like a faction for its lore/aesthetic/etc. as they are the ones most likely to buy units they like rather than units that are good so run a greater risk of their purchases either being turned into total garbage or making them TFG overnight if the unit in question gets huge buffs.

But by buying units you like, you never lose (provided you don't have only 2000 points of stuff). Regardless of the direction the meta shifts to, you supposedly only have stuff you like and therefore you build a list with that.
I have fun at tournaments even if I don't field the latest hot combo of units, I try to build the most competitive list I can with the models I have and enjoy the time spent rolling dice. The other units with suboptimal rules get played in friendly games.

If your army is consistently underpowered that's not winning even metaphorically.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Orange Knight wrote:
@Aash

So your one and only factor in this hobby is knowing the power of your units? Maybe if you fear the worse.

What was great in 6th was still great in 7th. 8th to 9th can be the same.

If they say existing books are still valid then it's only personal insecurity that might get in the way.

The ignorance here is outstanding. Your name should be White Knight instead of Orange Knight.


Its not invalidated the model, its invalidated your play style. Even then it probably just made it worse rather than completely invalidated it. Ofc for some people the opposite is true and their trash becomes amazing.

If you cannot use the model around the same manner, it is invalidated. If GW just decided to bump Captains 100 points for no reason, they're invalid for anything but sitting on a shelf.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 18:03:45


Post by: Dudeface


Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
 AnomanderRake wrote:
 Orange Knight wrote:
...What was great in 6th was still great in 7th. 8th to 9th can be the same...


Jink nerf? GK Codex (and the general named character cull)? Any units that didn't get a formation dedicated to their use? Challenge-tank nerf? Closest-target casualties?

Plenty of stuff got way worse in 7e.


But it wasn't invalidated.

It's pretty invalidated if an army slightly functioning before cannot function the same.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Aenar wrote:
Wayniac wrote:
Slipspace wrote:
Worth pointing out as well that even though edition changes inevitably change how many units function it's not a one-way thing and some units/armies get much better while some get worse. the switch to WHFB 8th edition, for example, very briefly saw Orcs (traditionally one of the weaker armies in the system) become extremely powerful almost entirely because of one of their spells.

The people most often hurt by edition changes that don't invalidate the previous edition's rules are the meta-chasers and anyone else with very limited collections for each army. Anyone with a fairly sizeable main army will likely not be too badly hurt by an edition change since most of the time the new edition just reshuffles which units are considered good and which are bad.
I honestly think the meta-chasers are hurt the least just because they chase the meta. So they bounce from army to army based on what's "good" in the tournament scene and don't care about anything else. The people who are hurt the most IMHO are the ones who actually like a faction for its lore/aesthetic/etc. as they are the ones most likely to buy units they like rather than units that are good so run a greater risk of their purchases either being turned into total garbage or making them TFG overnight if the unit in question gets huge buffs.

But by buying units you like, you never lose (provided you don't have only 2000 points of stuff). Regardless of the direction the meta shifts to, you supposedly only have stuff you like and therefore you build a list with that.
I have fun at tournaments even if I don't field the latest hot combo of units, I try to build the most competitive list I can with the models I have and enjoy the time spent rolling dice. The other units with suboptimal rules get played in friendly games.

If your army is consistently underpowered that's not winning even metaphorically.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Orange Knight wrote:
@Aash

So your one and only factor in this hobby is knowing the power of your units? Maybe if you fear the worse.

What was great in 6th was still great in 7th. 8th to 9th can be the same.

If they say existing books are still valid then it's only personal insecurity that might get in the way.

The ignorance here is outstanding. Your name should be White Knight instead of Orange Knight.


Its not invalidated the model, its invalidated your play style. Even then it probably just made it worse rather than completely invalidated it. Ofc for some people the opposite is true and their trash becomes amazing.

If you cannot use the model around the same manner, it is invalidated. If GW just decided to bump Captains 100 points for no reason, they're invalid for anything but sitting on a shelf.


Oh cool I didn't realise a model in a codex with a full profile, stats and points value can't be used in a game and is invalid.

Better yet the look on my opponents faces when I tell them their captains are invalid and can't be used!


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 19:21:52


Post by: Soulless


Considering the hype they build around it its hard not to suspect a new edition is coming.

If so, its likely similar to AoS where the "new" edition was basically a slight tweak of the previous edition so it wont invalidate anything.

I dunno, left 40k behind over a year ago but still feel hyped for this. Hoping for something to spark my interest enough to get back and start building an army again.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 20:07:07


Post by: Kayback


Dudeface wrote:


Better yet the look on my opponents faces when I tell them their captains are invalid and can't be used!


Ah so you're playing semantic games with the word "invalid".

If they changed something in the rules that drastically reduced the effectiveness of H2H armies, for example, they could render the setup of an army and a playstyle sub-optimal, making people not buy the models out of uncertainty until modification or clarification is made.

Better?


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 20:39:39


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


Kayback wrote:
Dudeface wrote:


Better yet the look on my opponents faces when I tell them their captains are invalid and can't be used!


Ah so you're playing semantic games with the word "invalid".

If they changed something in the rules that drastically reduced the effectiveness of H2H armies, for example, they could render the setup of an army and a playstyle sub-optimal, making people not buy the models out of uncertainty until modification or clarification is made.

Better?

Or how about Dudeface's extreme definition of "invalid", which took away a bunch of Dark Eldar and Marine HQs over time?


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 20:41:17


Post by: Dudeface


Kayback wrote:
Dudeface wrote:


Better yet the look on my opponents faces when I tell them their captains are invalid and can't be used!


Ah so you're playing semantic games with the word "invalid".

If they changed something in the rules that drastically reduced the effectiveness of H2H armies, for example, they could render the setup of an army and a playstyle sub-optimal, making people not buy the models out of uncertainty until modification or clarification is made.

Better?


But again thats personal paranoia, if it is announced there is a new edition fully compatible with existing rules, to stop and think "I won't buy that unit in case they gut the entirety of the melee phase" is a huge presumption.

I think it's best to leave it there, some people are in the hobby for casual fun and rule of cool and won't care, some others are over cautious and want to only buy "good" choices. Horses for courses.

But it's not semantics to simply apply a word correctly.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 20:43:22


Post by: AnomanderRake


Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
...Or how about Dudeface's extreme definition of "invalid", which took away a bunch of Dark Eldar and Marine HQs over time?


When we're talking about people like Sliscus who dramatically alter how your army works and render whatever army build you were running nonfunctional or illegal when they're deleted?


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 20:49:58


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


 AnomanderRake wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
...Or how about Dudeface's extreme definition of "invalid", which took away a bunch of Dark Eldar and Marine HQs over time?


When we're talking about people like Sliscus who dramatically alter how your army works and render whatever army build you were running nonfunctional or illegal when they're deleted?

Both can work. For example, a price hike on all Marine HQs of 100 points except a Techmarine would invalidate a bunch of models and alter armies. Then we have the literal deletion of profiles like Dark Eldar named Characters, generic Marines on Bikes, or stuff that their upgrade purchased doesn't really work anymore for even "counts as". The fact anyone can defend either is white knighting, period.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 21:29:21


Post by: Dudeface


Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 AnomanderRake wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
...Or how about Dudeface's extreme definition of "invalid", which took away a bunch of Dark Eldar and Marine HQs over time?


When we're talking about people like Sliscus who dramatically alter how your army works and render whatever army build you were running nonfunctional or illegal when they're deleted?

Both can work. For example, a price hike on all Marine HQs of 100 points except a Techmarine would invalidate a bunch of models and alter armies. Then we have the literal deletion of profiles like Dark Eldar named Characters, generic Marines on Bikes, or stuff that their upgrade purchased doesn't really work anymore for even "counts as". The fact anyone can defend either is white knighting, period.


Removing entries is never good, gotta agree there, especially if they alter how armies can be built.

No points value you assign to a hq prevents me from using it however. That's not white knighting, it's plain fact. I might lose every single game, but I can choose to use it still the exact same way I did before.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 22:07:19


Post by: techsoldaten


 Jidmah wrote:
Please read my full argument, you must have missed it.
I said that announcing a new edition is unwise because people will stop buying things.
People will stop buying things because there is a real chance of purchases being invalidated independently of the magnitude of the rules change.
This uncludes both PA books and new models.

I don't see what's controversial about your thoughts here.

Traditionally, a new edition means you can't use the same units in your army and expect it to perform well. Maybe it's the use of the word 'invalidate,' but points and rules changes typically favor certain units over another. While it's possible to play the same units, it's likely you are going to be unhappy doing so.

GW writes rules to sell models and tends to favor certain factions over others. But I'd be really surprised if they threw out all the existing points / datasheets this time around, 8th changes significantly every 6 months or so. Feels a little too soon to be switching to a new edition.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 23:16:53


Post by: Eldarsif


 techsoldaten wrote:
 Jidmah wrote:
Please read my full argument, you must have missed it.
I said that announcing a new edition is unwise because people will stop buying things.
People will stop buying things because there is a real chance of purchases being invalidated independently of the magnitude of the rules change.
This uncludes both PA books and new models.

I don't see what's controversial about your thoughts here.

Traditionally, a new edition means you can't use the same units in your army and expect it to perform well. Maybe it's the use of the word 'invalidate,' but points and rules changes typically favor certain units over another. While it's possible to play the same units, it's likely you are going to be unhappy doing so.

GW writes rules to sell models and tends to favor certain factions over others. But I'd be really surprised if they threw out all the existing points / datasheets this time around, 8th changes significantly every 6 months or so. Feels a little too soon to be switching to a new edition.


The thing is that this logic applies to all new releases in many ways. New unit on the way that does X? Might invalidate a certain meta setup? New codex on the way? Might invalidate your entire army build. New campaign book with new special rules? Again, might invalidate whatever you are doing. New CA being released? Here we go again, you might not be able to use those lovely setups you were building towards. New FAQ around the corner? You guessed correctly, invalidation to the rescue.

So if there is a new edition it will no better or worse towards invalidating anything than whatever is being released rather constantly over the year, and if they reveal a new edition now it is most likely coming out in a month or so, so people will be able to jump onto the train again and start building towards their dream team.

I would also remind that a huge system change like 8th was isn't something that happened every edition cycle.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/22 23:17:19


Post by: BrianDavion


 dadamowsky wrote:
ITT: a lot of doomsaying without us even knowing how the things are going to happen, or even if


no kidding, GW blatently teases a major background character getting a mini, in the next breath says "Announcing big news on saturday" and everyone is tripping over themselves to leap to the conclusion it'll be a new edition because EVERYTIME GW says "we're announcing something" they assume a new edition.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/23 07:02:50


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


Wow it turns out it WAS a new edition literally nobody could've predicted this


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/23 07:12:30


Post by: Dudeface


Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Wow it turns out it WAS a new edition literally nobody could've predicted this


I like that they call out they're happy with you playing 8th as is as well.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/23 07:27:54


Post by: tneva82


Yeah well nothing has ever prevented but as you can't play both in same game good luck finding opponents to 8th


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/23 08:14:28


Post by: Bosskelot


Depending what was tweaked, even an iterative edition change could completely invalidate large swathes of models. If say, they changed the LOS/terrain rules and changed how cp works this would completely change the power dynamics of units and entire factions.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/23 08:18:58


Post by: tneva82


And so can and do faq's and ca. Whole point why gw does those


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/23 08:45:28


Post by: psipso


My bet is for a commercial film or TV series in the Warhammer 40 K setting. Potentially related to Eisenhorn.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/23 08:58:54


Post by: Orange Knight


Have you guys seen the Q&A release doing the rounds?

Looks as though we are indeed getting a new edition with quite a few changes, and it even has a new logo.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/23 09:00:56


Post by: Bosskelot


 Orange Knight wrote:
Have you guys seen the Q&A release doing the rounds?

Looks as though we are indeed getting a new edition with quite a few changes, and it even has a new logo.


Not really convinced of that being real since it's incredibly easy to do a mock-up like that. Plus do GW usually refer to things as Editions in their press release type stuff?

Not saying it's 100% fake but I don't think it's firm confirmation of anything either.


Could Saturday's big 40K announcement be 9th Edition? @ 2020/05/23 09:02:57


Post by: Aash


 Orange Knight wrote:
Have you guys seen the Q&A release doing the rounds?

Looks as though we are indeed getting a new edition with quite a few changes, and it even has a new logo.


Where can I find this?