Hey guys.

Since im new to warhammer 40k tabletop (started 2 months ago) i havent witnessed an edition change before.

I was wondering, how long is the wait generally, from the edition is officially out, till new codexes for Xenos start coming out? And after that, how many models does each Xenos race usually get in each edition?

For instance, i play orks and i have no idea which units were added in 8th. So im just trying to piece together all the new information, which so far, i believe most can agree on the fact that Orks have been monumentally shat on in this edition so far (and yes i know its quite a statement and things can change, but SO FAR it doesnt look good). At least if you run mainly melee armies as a horde. including the lack of specialist detatchments which actually made the faction fun and interesting.

So how long would i have to wait to see some new changes to the orks and their codexes? and how long and how many models would i be able to expect to arrive to the 9th edition scene for the orks? I hope they add specialist detatchments to the core codex and make it a base thing.

Sadly GW is really inconsistent about that. To the best of my knowledge they haven't released a new Tryanid kit since 2014. Orks were still using their 4th ed codex in 6th ed.* The Dark Eldar had a good long stretch too. Even some parts of the Marine line are really old, the current Biker kit is on it's second decade. That's not without a silver lining, if you're not playing a loyalist or chaos marine army the cost to keep your collection up to date is a lot lower, but that's hardly comforting when there's a new Primaris release seemingly every other week.

The point is, GW getting codexes out for every army during 8th edition was actually something of a novelty. They've said they're planning to update all the codexes again in 9th iirc, but there's no guarantee it that won't mean just consolidating the current codex, Munitorum points changes, and the new rules in the Psychic Awakening series into a single book.

* Someone is sure to correct me on the exact details.

Edition change, first codex, Aeldari codexes, last codex. In previous editions some factions have gone without a codex update for several editions, 8th was a change to form and massively increased release rates, although most of the datasheets and stuff was already finished through the Indexes.

Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition Rulebook Released June 2017

Codex: Space Marines Released July 2017

Codex: Craftworlds Released October 2017

Codex: Dark Eldar Released March 2018

Codex: Harlequins Released May 2018

Codex: Adepta Sororitas Released November 2019

Beardedragon wrote:
Hey guys.

Since im new to warhammer 40k tabletop (started 2 months ago) i havent witnessed an edition change before.

I was wondering, how long is the wait generally, from the edition is officially out, till new codexes for Xenos start coming out? And after that, how many models does each Xenos race usually get in each edition?

For instance, i play orks and i have no idea which units were added in 8th. So im just trying to piece together all the new information, which so far, i believe most can agree on the fact that Orks have been monumentally shat on in this edition so far (and yes i know its quite a statement and things can change, but SO FAR it doesnt look good). At least if you run mainly melee armies as a horde. including the lack of specialist detatchments which actually made the faction fun and interesting.

So how long would i have to wait to see some new changes to the orks and their codexes? and how long and how many models would i be able to expect to arrive to the 9th edition scene for the orks? I hope they add specialist detatchments to the core codex and make it a base thing.

There is no way to answer this. When 8th launched, Codex Marines and Codex Deathguard all came out within a month from base rules release. Likely this time the same will be the case, except it will be Marines and Necrons first. Orks could get the Necron treatment, with half or more of the army getting totally redone come October, or they could limp along with no model releases or codex releases until December of 2021.

Given what we know about this game so far, GW seems to be working in a long term (5-10 year road-map) to remove all metal/finecast models, and to update ranges with models that are 20+ years old or older. Following that logic, Eldar, Orcs, Tyranids, and Guard all are due for the same treatment that the Necrons are getting right now. Furthermore, if you look in the rumor engine pictures that GW places out for the public each week, you'll see a lot of stuff that looks to be eldar related, alongside Ad Mech. I would expect Ad Mech to get a codex early this edition with all the new models they got from engine war. As always, it's going to be about patience. However, also note that there are likely to be surprises in there mixed in. For example, there have been a lot of lore mentions to the return of the squats lately. It's also been suggested that the Old Ones may return to do battle against the Necrons and their hated enemies the C'Tan. Traitor Guard and Dark Mechanicus are almost certainly going to be a thing (when, none can say, but it's a safe bet that they'll be armies in and of themselves at some point) and that means that older line updates could be held back or up. Also, Covid can at anytime send us all running back into lockdown, which will harm and already covid harmed design and release schedule.

Also, I'd caution you about getting too upset when it comes to the stuff you read/hear online. Theory-hammer rarely ever matters in the grand schema of things. Also, in one of the lead up to 9th livestreams, GW did say all 9th ed codexes were tested together. Which likely means they're all done and just waiting to be printed and sold.

Beardedragon wrote:
...And after that, how many models does each Xenos race usually get in each edition?...

In my experience xenos armies tend to get one massive overhaul and then nothing for ten years (Dark Eldar, Necrons), or get maybe a kit or two an edition (Orks, Craftworlders, Tau, Tyranids). GSC and Harlequins are too new to have much of a pattern but they did get big initial release waves, so they're probably getting no new models until about 2028.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Togusa wrote:
...Also, I'd caution you about getting too upset when it comes to the stuff you read/hear online. Theory-hammer rarely ever matters in the grand schema of things.

Mind also that a lot of us are either complaining about our local meta/playgroup (which may not resemble yours) or griping to hear ourselves gripe.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

The Newman wrote:
...* Someone is sure to correct me on the exact details.

If you insist. There was a Broodlord in 2016.

Well, the Necron Codex is virtually guaranteed to be among the first two Codexes to be released.

Along with Marines, they are in the starter box, so those two are the books that will hit the shelves within a month or so of the box.

All the others, Xenos and non-Xenos, is anyone's guess. I see no reason why Orks would be particularly high on their to-do-list compared to others (Chaos Daemons and AdMech seem like books they might wanna do, just because those have lots of new models not in their current book, but that's just speculation).

Years if ever.

Just thinking about it depresses me. At this point I'd probably be grateful if I was sure that there was going to be another Drukhari codex, rather than lumping all the knife ears into 'Codex Spess Elfs'.

Rumours have it that Orks will be one of the first codices to be updated. Apparently, it's already finished.
My guess is that it will be released within the next 3 months.

My understanding is that all the codexes are being written/have been written and tested at the same time, so in theory the timing would be determined by production not design time.

Orks and Necrons should be two of the soonest to be released. Expect beautiful new ork boyz.

Beardedragon wrote:
For instance, i play orks and i have no idea which units were added in 8th.

In 8th we got all the buggies, Da Red Gobbo, Thrakka and Makari.

So im just trying to piece together all the new information, which so far, i believe most can agree on the fact that Orks have been monumentally shat on in this edition so far (and yes i know its quite a statement and things can change, but SO FAR it doesnt look good). At least if you run mainly melee armies as a horde. including the lack of specialist detatchments which actually made the faction fun and interesting.

Orks are a combined arms army that heavily relies on shooting, in 8th melee was more of an utility tool than a way to actually kill models. There is plenty of stuff in our codex which got better or stayed the same, just not the things currently used in tournaments. Don't count them out yet.

So how long would i have to wait to see some new changes to the orks and their codexes? and how long and how many models would i be able to expect to arrive to the 9th edition scene for the orks? I hope they add specialist detatchments to the core codex and make it a base thing.

Orks get roughly one release per year, while they have no clue what to do with us rules-wise, at least we are inspiring the creative guys to keep coming up with new ork models. I expect the codex to appear within one year, though I might be wrong. The rumor has some merit to it, as it would explain the weird KFF mek datasheet in Saga of the Beast.

Predicting GWs releases is like the one situation where being a veteran or newbie makes no difference at all. Your guess is as good as ours.

 Jidmah wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
For instance, i play orks and i have no idea which units were added in 8th.

In 8th we got all the buggies, Da Red Gobbo, Thrakka and Makari.

Also the Wartrike.

 harlokin wrote:
Just thinking about it depresses me. At this point I'd probably be grateful if I was sure that there was going to be another Drukhari codex, rather than lumping all the knife ears into 'Codex Spess Elfs'.

To be perfectly honest, I'd probably welcome the Eldar books being fully merged at this point.

At least with Farseers, Autarchs, Shadowseers and Troupe Masters, Dark Eldar would finally have some worthwhile HQ choices.

 vipoid wrote:

 harlokin wrote:
Just thinking about it depresses me. At this point I'd probably be grateful if I was sure that there was going to be another Drukhari codex, rather than lumping all the knife ears into 'Codex Spess Elfs'.

To be perfectly honest, I'd probably welcome the Eldar books being fully merged at this point.

At least with Farseers, Autarchs, Shadowseers and Troupe Masters, Dark Eldar would finally have some worthwhile HQ choices.

And would no longer be Dark Eldar.

GW selling one book instead of 3? Not gonna happen, unless the price's book is now 3x than a single codex.

To be honest I'd rather go back to 3rd-6th editions when codexes last 2 editions, so each faction got a new book every 6-7 years. Now it's 2 books per edition, which is insane IMHO.

 vipoid wrote:

 harlokin wrote:
Just thinking about it depresses me. At this point I'd probably be grateful if I was sure that there was going to be another Drukhari codex, rather than lumping all the knife ears into 'Codex Spess Elfs'.

To be perfectly honest, I'd probably welcome the Eldar books being fully merged at this point.

At least with Farseers, Autarchs, Shadowseers and Troupe Masters, Dark Eldar would finally have some worthwhile HQ choices.

So the 2nd ed book?

 harlokin wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

 harlokin wrote:
Just thinking about it depresses me. At this point I'd probably be grateful if I was sure that there was going to be another Drukhari codex, rather than lumping all the knife ears into 'Codex Spess Elfs'.

To be perfectly honest, I'd probably welcome the Eldar books being fully merged at this point.

At least with Farseers, Autarchs, Shadowseers and Troupe Masters, Dark Eldar would finally have some worthwhile HQ choices.

And would no longer be Dark Eldar.

I mean, I feel I could just as easily make that claim with regard to the current codex and ruleset. Especially when the new points basically discourage us from using some of the most thematic elements of our army.

But more than that, what is the point of remaining 'pure' when everything that made Dark Eldar likable in the first place has been stripped out? Even combined, our HQs have all the fun and flavour of a Imperium accountant, and most have about the same level of combat aptitude. Archons are supposed to be wielding the greatest wargear available, which now amounts to a couple of crap pistols and some abysmal melee weapons. Haemonculi are similarly said to wield a variety of nightmarish devices, which amounts to a few ranged weapons (each competing to be worse than the others), and a selection of melee weapons with almost no variety beyond some of them being inexcusably terrible. Succubi are dedicated melee fighters, which leads to them having the fewest attacks and worst melee weapons (if you can believe that).

Then you've got stuff like Raiders and Ravagers trading armour for speed . . . yet both are actually slower than heavily-armoured Eldar tanks.

But at least they've kept their trademark ability to move and shoot without penalty, thus highlighting Dark Eldar's focus on speed and mobility above all else. Oh, wait, nevermind - that ability has been extended to every other vehicle in the game. Because why should Dark Eldar be able to do anything better than Marines?

Plus all the little things - even the ones that didn't get used much. For example, Hellions used to be able to take a weapon that let them kidnap enemy characters. When they fell back from combat, they could potentially take an enemy character with them. Even if it wasn't used much, I love that sort of thing because it's great flavour and it's the sort of thing that's fun to try. So what does that weapon do now? A Mortal Wound on a 6+ to wound. Wow, save some innovation for the other armies!

Put simply, at this point, trying to preserve Dark Eldar's flabour seems akin to trying to preserve the burnt-out ruins of a once-great house. Yes, the walls are still there, but it's nothing but a hollow shell.


To be clear, I don't *like* that this is the case. I would much rather see Dark Eldar properly fleshed out again, with new units to replace the swathes of units that have been cut from their codex in recent editions.

However, I'm also a pragmatist and at this point I'm resigned to the fact that no one at GW gives the slightest damn about Dark Eldar. Hence why swathes of our units have been cut and the only models we've gotten in the last decade have been remakes of existing ones (and about half of them have been worse sculpts than the models they replaced).

Hence, whilst it is far from my ideal solution, merging the Eldar books seems about the only thing I can expect from GW which might inject even a shred of life into the corpse of the army I once loved.

Thanks for all the replies.

How often are Forge world units added to the game then?

Also i hope they give some love for Goblin armies. They made a special detatchment that could work for fun armies, but then they removed it again from tournements for 9th which is just super sad..

I just got my hands on 4 grot tanks :(((

i always wanted to do a detatchment with Goblins

 vipoid wrote:

 harlokin wrote:
Just thinking about it depresses me. At this point I'd probably be grateful if I was sure that there was going to be another Drukhari codex, rather than lumping all the knife ears into 'Codex Spess Elfs'.

To be perfectly honest, I'd probably welcome the Eldar books being fully merged at this point.

At least with Farseers, Autarchs, Shadowseers and Troupe Masters, Dark Eldar would finally have some worthwhile HQ choices.

Sure.

We should probably just merge them with the Primaris Marines and Chaos at the same time right? Then Chaos Marines could take decent troops choices, and you could use Doom with Intercessors.
It'd be great.

DE peeps:

You know Lelith is coming, right? We've seen her in two rumour engine pics so far (hair and knife). When she arrives, she will bring a book and backup.

To Harlokin's point though, Lelith has been working with Ynnari, and her appearance might mean DE or Eldar soup/ Ynnari.

As for all the other stuff, I'm not going to defend the way GW has treated the DE; we've lost a lot. But I will say that I haven't given up hope. I believe Lelith will continue to be DE, even if she becomes usable in Ynnari armies (Jain Zar may also become usable in Ynnari armies, but I think she'll remain CWE).

In 8th, they released 24 codices in less than 3 years.

With 30 armies listed on the website, it'll take more than a year to get to them all if they do one every two weeks. At one a month, we'll get the last one just a few months before 10th launches.

PenitentJake wrote:
DE peeps:


In 8th, they released 24 codices in less than 3 years.

Great news! You might only have to wait till 2023 for your army book! How lucky do you all feel?

They've already written them apparently, and they can publish them as E-Books. So they're literally just making you wait three years for marketing reasons.

PenitentJake wrote:
DE peeps:

You know Lelith is coming, right? We've seen her in two rumour engine pics so far (hair and knife).

Cool. So we're going from having a model for Lelith to having a model for Lelith. Someone fetch the balloons.

Let me know when there's any sign of Vect, The Duke, Baron Sathonyx, Lady Malys, The Decapitator. You know, the units we don't even have rules for in Legends because GW was too lazy to make models for them. Or Archons with Jetbikes/Skyboards. Or Haemonculi with Jetbikes/Skyboards. More units we used to have access to but no longer do.

Sorry but a new Lelith model is like offering a glass of water to a drowning man.

AdmiralHalsey wrote:

PenitentJake wrote:
DE peeps:


In 8th, they released 24 codices in less than 3 years.

Great news! You might only have to wait till 2023 for your army book! How lucky do you all feel?

They've already written them apparently, and they can publish them as E-Books. So they're literally just making you wait three years for marketing reasons.

I've no issue with that, it allows me to spread the cost and them to get a better return on their work.

AdmiralHalsey wrote:

PenitentJake wrote:
DE peeps:


In 8th, they released 24 codices in less than 3 years.

Great news! You might only have to wait till 2023 for your army book! How lucky do you all feel?

They've already written them apparently, and they can publish them as E-Books. So they're literally just making you wait three years for marketing reasons.

Rumour engine doesn't generally drop pics 3 years in advance; I actually think DE will be within year one, and maybe even before 2021. It's true that someone is going to have to wait 3 years- it cannot be otherwise. Keep in mind that these "marketing reasons" are what have sustained the company for 35 years- releasing everything all at once would flood the market and cripple the company, and then like so many others, the game would become a tiny little thing that only niche players know about, and they'd have to scale down production to the point where they were like every other company.

If you added Infinity, Bolt Action, X-wing and Battletech together, you're still looking at less than half of GW's market share. These "marketing reasons" you speak of are a big part of the reason why this game still exists at all. I don't like waiting either, but I'd rather that than have the company get stupid and disappear.

PenitentJake wrote:

AdmiralHalsey wrote:

PenitentJake wrote:
DE peeps:


In 8th, they released 24 codices in less than 3 years.

Great news! You might only have to wait till 2023 for your army book! How lucky do you all feel?

They've already written them apparently, and they can publish them as E-Books. So they're literally just making you wait three years for marketing reasons.

Rumour engine doesn't generally drop pics 3 years in advance; I actually think DE will be within year one, and maybe even before 2021.

You toy with my hope at your peril

PenitentJake wrote:
DE peeps:

You know Lelith is coming, right? We've seen her in two rumour engine pics so far (hair and knife). When she arrives, she will bring a book and backup.

To Harlokin's point though, Lelith has been working with Ynnari, and her appearance might mean DE or Eldar soup/ Ynnari.

As for all the other stuff, I'm not going to defend the way GW has treated the DE; we've lost a lot. But I will say that I haven't given up hope. I believe Lelith will continue to be DE, even if she becomes usable in Ynnari armies (Jain Zar may also become usable in Ynnari armies, but I think she'll remain CWE).

In 8th, they released 24 codices in less than 3 years.

In lore, jain zar was also working with the ynnari.

Currently both are illegal to field in a ynnari detachment, sooooo...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Beardedragon wrote:
Thanks for all the replies.

How often are Forge world units added to the game then?

Also i hope they give some love for Goblin armies. They made a special detatchment that could work for fun armies, but then they removed it again from tournements for 9th which is just super sad..

I just got my hands on 4 grot tanks :(((

i always wanted to do a detatchment with Goblins

Hey just a note here:

Specialist DETACHMENTS are the thing that got removed. Theyre from the previous short set of campaign books. You paid 1cp to get a few traits and abilities.

Specialist MOBS are the ork version of custom chapter tactics. Those are still 100% legal. You can still play cheeky zoggers detachments.

Codex? Coming soon, for Necrons at least. Model? They get some new models.

Anyone else? Who knows? Never? Codex probably every month or so, models though...

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
For instance, i play orks and i have no idea which units were added in 8th.

In 8th we got all the buggies, Da Red Gobbo, Thrakka and Makari.

Also the Wartrike.

I counted the wartrike as one of buggies


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Beardedragon wrote:
Thanks for all the replies.

How often are Forge world units added to the game then?

The current trend seems to be "never" unless you happen to be custodes who benefit from their 30k releases because they didn't lose their toys all over the galaxy like the rest of the bunch.

Preview broadcast said Necron and SM dexes by October.

Oh look, just as I said - new Orks.

Also, Dark Eldar...

Preview just showed teaser, but definitely Lelith, a new sister (still OoOML (GRRR)), I think some Ork abs were in there too, and maybe an Admech/ Skitarri.

PenitentJake wrote:
Preview just showed teaser, but definitely Lelith, a new sister (still OoOML (GRRR)), I think some Ork abs were in there too, and maybe an Admech/ Skitarri.

Death Guard
Ad Mech
Drukari
Sister
Ork

(not in that order)

 AnomanderRake wrote:

If you insist. There was a Broodlord in 2016.

The current Broodlord released 2014 in the BA vs Nids box (Shield of Baal: Deathstorm). You had to wait until 2016 to be able to buy it as a single model.

Nids got all of their last releases in 2014, the box set was the last. There has been no new Tyranid release since then.

Number of SM releases since then: around 120

Calling it "second rate customer" just doesn't cut it anymore.

Where in the world are you getting "around 120" from, outside of hyperbole?

 Kanluwen wrote:
Where in the world are you getting "around 120" from, outside of hyperbole?

It's not hyperbole.

 catbarf wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Where in the world are you getting "around 120" from, outside of hyperbole?

It's not hyperbole.

If you're counting every single subtype of Space Marine and the Horus Heresy plastics, then it's only fair to count Genestealer Cultists for Tyranids.

The 30k releases in there are like four. But sure, 40k only - Main Codex Chapters only: 75

Obviously heaps better, right?

Right?

Four army books that already existed(Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Codex Space Marines) and one(Deathwatch) was a whole range launch.

You want to keep going?

Oh, also the "Imperial Space Marine"? LOL. That was an anniversary model...that let you take a single Space Marine as a unit. Gasp!
Raven Guard "Kyrin Solaq", frigging lol. That wasn't a named character. It was a generic model released as part of a bundle that did awful.

There's also things like this:

Deathwatch - Primaris Intercessors
Deathwatch - Marine
Deathwatch - Kill-Team
Deathwatch - Chaplain
Deathwatch - Librarian

You want to keep trying to make this garbage argument?

Spoiler:
Out of all of those, only the Kill-Team was a dedicated Deathwatch product. The others were just rebadges of the vanilla items.

 Kanluwen wrote:
If you're counting every single subtype of Space Marine and the Horus Heresy plastics, then it's only fair to count Genestealer Cultists for Tyranids.

Well, if we're going to count allies, then that means every SoB and Admech release counts for Marines, right?

Either way we are firmly into moving goalposts, since yeah, the claim that there have been ~120 Marine releases since the last Tyranid release is factually accurate.

 catbarf wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
If you're counting every single subtype of Space Marine and the Horus Heresy plastics, then it's only fair to count Genestealer Cultists for Tyranids.

Well, if we're going to count allies, then that means every SoB and Admech release counts for Marines, right?

Either way we are firmly into moving goalposts, since yeah, the claim that there have been ~120 Marine releases since the last Tyranid release is factually accurate.

I'm seeing a lot of repeats on that list, so I'm calling bull.
Also--Cypher's on the list.

You know he's a Chaos Marines release, right?

 Kanluwen wrote:

 catbarf wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
If you're counting every single subtype of Space Marine and the Horus Heresy plastics, then it's only fair to count Genestealer Cultists for Tyranids.

Well, if we're going to count allies, then that means every SoB and Admech release counts for Marines, right?

Either way we are firmly into moving goalposts, since yeah, the claim that there have been ~120 Marine releases since the last Tyranid release is factually accurate.

I'm seeing a lot of repeats on that list, so I'm calling bull.
Also--Cypher's on the list.

You know he's a Chaos Marines release, right?

Discount the repeats and ones you consider invalid, then. Only a hundred or so Marine releases since the last Tyranid release in 2014- that's much better!

Edit: Seriously, even if we discount every example that you personally feel is invalid, where are you going with this? 'You shouldn't feel like a second-rate customer because your last model came out six years ago, the flagship faction hasn't actually gotten 120 new releases since then, just 60 or so to your zero?'

It's also spread across how many ranges compared to one army?

Instead of squabbling over the exact details how about this question: Can you honestly say that Marines have a fair and proportionate amount of releases in comparison to other ranges?

Of course not, but again that boils down to the fact that there are how many different Marine armies that use the same range of basic models?

 Kanluwen wrote:
Of course not, but again that boils down to the fact that there are how many different Marine armies that use the same range of basic models?

Not so many that they should eclipse the rest of the game.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Of course not, but again that boils down to the fact that there are how many different Marine armies that use the same range of basic models?

All one army, One Codex again.....

I've heard this circular logic before. People say Marines don't get disproportionate attention/releases because each subfaction is a separate army, which is only the case because Marines alone have so much attention and investment put into them that their different color schemes all get their own books and army lists.

In other words: 'Marines aren't disproportionately favored, they just constitute half the armies in the game and so deserve more releases'. It's begging the question.

 catbarf wrote:
I've heard this circular logic before. People say Marines don't get disproportionate attention/releases because each subfaction is a separate army, which is only the case because Marines alone have so much attention and investment put into them that their different color schemes all get their own books and army lists.

In other words: 'Marines aren't disproportionately favored, they just constitute half the armies in the game and so deserve more releases'. It's begging the question.

I'm curious by what you mean by subfaction. Do you mean things like Space Wolves and the Angels? Or do you mean the multiple supplements they get when other factions have nothing like that?

pm713 wrote:

 catbarf wrote:
I've heard this circular logic before. People say Marines don't get disproportionate attention/releases because each subfaction is a separate army, which is only the case because Marines alone have so much attention and investment put into them that their different color schemes all get their own books and army lists.

In other words: 'Marines aren't disproportionately favored, they just constitute half the armies in the game and so deserve more releases'. It's begging the question.

I'm curious by what you mean by subfaction. Do you mean things like Space Wolves and the Angels? Or do you mean the multiple supplements they get when other factions have nothing like that?

Space Marines are a subfaction of the Imperium

Chapters are a Sub-sub faction - equivalent to a Craftworld or Kabel, Cult or Coven.

 Mr Morden wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 catbarf wrote:
I've heard this circular logic before. People say Marines don't get disproportionate attention/releases because each subfaction is a separate army, which is only the case because Marines alone have so much attention and investment put into them that their different color schemes all get their own books and army lists.

In other words: 'Marines aren't disproportionately favored, they just constitute half the armies in the game and so deserve more releases'. It's begging the question.

I'm curious by what you mean by subfaction. Do you mean things like Space Wolves and the Angels? Or do you mean the multiple supplements they get when other factions have nothing like that?

Space Marines are a subfaction of the Imperium

Chapters are a Sub-sub faction - equivalent to a Craftworld or Kabel, Cult or Coven.

Space Marines are not a subfaction of anything. Just look at the website, they have their own section for some reason...

 catbarf wrote:
I've heard this circular logic before. People say Marines don't get disproportionate attention/releases because each subfaction is a separate army, which is only the case because Marines alone have so much attention and investment put into them that their different color schemes all get their own books and army lists.

In other words: 'Marines aren't disproportionately favored, they just constitute half the armies in the game and so deserve more releases'. It's begging the question.

It's only "circular logic" if you're ignoring the key part:
This stuff is available to multiple ranges.
If it were just Codex Marines, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, etc that were seeing that many releases?
I'd be 100% there with your argument.

But it's Codex, DA, BA, DW, and SW who got to use a large chunk of if not all of these releases at the times they came out. That's 5 armies sharing the same release pool.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 catbarf wrote:
I've heard this circular logic before. People say Marines don't get disproportionate attention/releases because each subfaction is a separate army, which is only the case because Marines alone have so much attention and investment put into them that their different color schemes all get their own books and army lists.

In other words: 'Marines aren't disproportionately favored, they just constitute half the armies in the game and so deserve more releases'. It's begging the question.

It's only "circular logic" if you're ignoring the key part:
This stuff is available to multiple ranges.
If it were just Codex Marines, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, etc that were seeing that many releases?
I'd be 100% there with your argument.

But it's Codex, DA, BA, DW, and SW who got to use a large chunk of if not all of these releases at the times they came out. That's 5 armies sharing the same release pool.

But the fact remains that's 5 ranges who have had more releases than the rest of the game got including TWO armies have a big redo.

pm713 wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 catbarf wrote:
I've heard this circular logic before. People say Marines don't get disproportionate attention/releases because each subfaction is a separate army, which is only the case because Marines alone have so much attention and investment put into them that their different color schemes all get their own books and army lists.

In other words: 'Marines aren't disproportionately favored, they just constitute half the armies in the game and so deserve more releases'. It's begging the question.

I'm curious by what you mean by subfaction. Do you mean things like Space Wolves and the Angels? Or do you mean the multiple supplements they get when other factions have nothing like that?

Space Marines are a subfaction of the Imperium

Chapters are a Sub-sub faction - equivalent to a Craftworld or Kabel, Cult or Coven.

Space Marines are not a subfaction of anything. Just look at the website, they have their own section for some reason...

Keywords from my White Scars Supplement is: Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - White Scars

 Mr Morden wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 catbarf wrote:
I've heard this circular logic before. People say Marines don't get disproportionate attention/releases because each subfaction is a separate army, which is only the case because Marines alone have so much attention and investment put into them that their different color schemes all get their own books and army lists.

In other words: 'Marines aren't disproportionately favored, they just constitute half the armies in the game and so deserve more releases'. It's begging the question.

I'm curious by what you mean by subfaction. Do you mean things like Space Wolves and the Angels? Or do you mean the multiple supplements they get when other factions have nothing like that?

Space Marines are a subfaction of the Imperium

Chapters are a Sub-sub faction - equivalent to a Craftworld or Kabel, Cult or Coven.

Space Marines are not a subfaction of anything. Just look at the website, they have their own section for some reason...

Keywords from my White Scars Supplement is: Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - White Scars

That's nice. Space Marines are still quite blatantly not a SUB faction. That holds as much weight as saying Tyranids are part of the same army as Dark Eldar.

pm713 wrote:

But the fact remains that's 5 ranges who have had more releases than the rest of the game got including TWO armies have a big redo.

And the fact remains that's 5 ranges sharing that pool of releases.

I'm not debating the fact that it's a lot. I'm debating the fact that it's considered excessive. GW literally can't win with this, because even if they released a similar amount of units for everyone--there would still be the complaints about all of these things since there's so much real estate taken up by Astartes units.

 Kanluwen wrote:

pm713 wrote:

But the fact remains that's 5 ranges who have had more releases than the rest of the game got including TWO armies have a big redo.

And the fact remains that's 5 ranges sharing that pool of releases.

I'm not debating the fact that it's a lot. I'm debating the fact that it's considered excessive. GW literally can't win with this, because even if they released a similar amount of units for everyone--there would still be the complaints about all of these things since there's so much real estate taken up by Astartes units.

You don't think it's excessive that 5 five armies take up so much more time and effort than everyone else including at least 2 big redos?

No, I don't think it's excessive when we're talking about five armies basically using the same pool of releases.

Man the goalposts sure are shifty around here. Must be quicksand or something...

Around 65 generic SM releases if we discount all unique characters. So each main Codex chapter gets 65 kits + 3-4 uniques, and the chapters with own codizes get 65 + a dozen or thereabouts.

Nothing to see here, move along, NPC citizen.

pm713 wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 catbarf wrote:
I've heard this circular logic before. People say Marines don't get disproportionate attention/releases because each subfaction is a separate army, which is only the case because Marines alone have so much attention and investment put into them that their different color schemes all get their own books and army lists.

In other words: 'Marines aren't disproportionately favored, they just constitute half the armies in the game and so deserve more releases'. It's begging the question.

I'm curious by what you mean by subfaction. Do you mean things like Space Wolves and the Angels? Or do you mean the multiple supplements they get when other factions have nothing like that?

Space Marines are a subfaction of the Imperium

Chapters are a Sub-sub faction - equivalent to a Craftworld or Kabel, Cult or Coven.

Space Marines are not a subfaction of anything. Just look at the website, they have their own section for some reason...

Keywords from my White Scars Supplement is: Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - White Scars

That's nice. Space Marines are still quite blatantly not a SUB faction. That holds as much weight as saying Tyranids are part of the same army as Dark Eldar.

Dark Eldar are a Eldar Sub faction.
Tyranids are an actual Faction like Orks or Tau.

but agreed Marine Chapters are marketed as an actual Faction.

 Kanluwen wrote:
No, I don't think it's excessive when we're talking about five armies basically using the same pool of releases.

It's five armies getting far more attention than TWENTY TWO.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 catbarf wrote:
I've heard this circular logic before. People say Marines don't get disproportionate attention/releases because each subfaction is a separate army, which is only the case because Marines alone have so much attention and investment put into them that their different color schemes all get their own books and army lists.

In other words: 'Marines aren't disproportionately favored, they just constitute half the armies in the game and so deserve more releases'. It's begging the question.

It's only "circular logic" if you're ignoring the key part:
This stuff is available to multiple ranges.
If it were just Codex Marines, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, etc that were seeing that many releases?
I'd be 100% there with your argument.

But it's Codex, DA, BA, DW, and SW who got to use a large chunk of if not all of these releases at the times they came out. That's 5 armies sharing the same release pool.

Those five ranges are all subfactions of the same faction. They're all flavors of Space Marine. That they are each given the same importance as actual distinct factions is exactly the point.

If GW suddenly had an obsession with Eldar, released separate codices for Alaitoc, Biel-Tan, Saim-Hann, Ulthwe, and Iyanden, and then allocated 80+% of new releases to Eldar, I doubt you'd be arguing that there's no Eldar favoritism because it's just 5 armies sharing the same release pool. Pay no attention to the fact that these 5 subfactions-turned-full-factions are now getting more releases than the other 20-odd factions combined.

You're using the results of Marine favoritism to argue that there is no Marine favoritism. That's why it's begging the question.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Dark Eldar are a Eldar Sub faction.
Tyranids are an actual Faction like Orks or Tau.

but agreed Marine Chapters are marketed as an actual Faction.

Dark Eldar, Craftworlds, and Harlequins are all top-level factions, not subfactions. They belong to an Eldar super-faction, just as all the Imperial factions belong to the Imperium super-faction. Subfactions are the individual, named craftworlds/kabals/chapters/regiments/etc.

Imperium <-> Eldar
Space Marines <-> Drukhari
Imperial Fists <-> Prophets of Flesh

 Mr Morden wrote:


Dark Eldar are a Eldar Sub faction .

To be clear, Asuryani and Drukhari are Aeldari factions, in the same way that Astra Militarum and AdMech are Imperium factions.

 harlokin wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:


Dark Eldar are a Eldar Sub faction .

To be clear, Asuryani and Drukhari are Aeldari factions, in the same way that Astra Militarum and AdMech are Imperium factions.

Well if you are saying the Imperium is a super faction.....yeah.

spell check does not work on my browser so went for the easier option.

Beardedragon wrote:
Hey guys.

Since im new to warhammer 40k tabletop (started 2 months ago) i havent witnessed an edition change before.

I was wondering, how long is the wait generally, from the edition is officially out, till new codexes for Xenos start coming out? And after that, how many models does each Xenos race usually get in each edition?

For instance, i play orks and i have no idea which units were added in 8th. So im just trying to piece together all the new information, which so far, i believe most can agree on the fact that Orks have been monumentally shat on in this edition so far (and yes i know its quite a statement and things can change, but SO FAR it doesnt look good). At least if you run mainly melee armies as a horde. including the lack of specialist detatchments which actually made the faction fun and interesting.

So how long would i have to wait to see some new changes to the orks and their codexes? and how long and how many models would i be able to expect to arrive to the 9th edition scene for the orks? I hope they add specialist detatchments to the core codex and make it a base thing.

Added for Orks in 8th were:
All the Buggies
Ghazskull


As for how long until Xenos comes out, well Necrons are coming out with Space Marines, so uh, 1st/2nd codex? Really, it's not predictable at all. It used to be like 2 months per codex [though back then a new codex also usually came with new models], and the only people guaranteed to see a codex in an edition were Space Marines, so like, yeah. Craftworld Eldar and Chaos Space Marines also see codecies most editions.

I can't tell you when Orks specifically will come out, because it's pretty random.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 harlokin wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:


Dark Eldar are a Eldar Sub faction .

To be clear, Asuryani and Drukhari are Aeldari factions, in the same way that Astra Militarum and AdMech are Imperium factions.

Well if you are saying the Imperium is a super faction.....yeah.

spell check does not work on my browser so went for the easier option.

Not a prob. I was just clarifying (to anyone who might have been confused) that 'Dark Eldar' are not a 'Craftworld Eldar subfaction'.

Hey, look at that! In today's preview, it looks to me like either a new boys kit, or a new Nob kit is in the pipeline. ...hmm, maybe both?

Personally, I think we're seeing a wave of Lieutenant-equivalents.

Obviously marines have theirs, the Royal Warden seems to be a similar role in the necron force (especially so in the Indomitus novel), the Sisters' Palantine is obviously that.

So a Big Boss, Skitarii commander, Wych 'dracon,' and a Death Guard lieutenant.

Seems likely, especially since AdMech lost the Skitarii Alpha in the transition to 8th. I know a lot of players have been expecting/hoping for that to come back.

We didn't "lose" the Alpha. They're still there.

What we lost was the ability to field an HQ-less Detachment of pure Skitarii.

AdmiralHalsey wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

 harlokin wrote:
Just thinking about it depresses me. At this point I'd probably be grateful if I was sure that there was going to be another Drukhari codex, rather than lumping all the knife ears into 'Codex Spess Elfs'.

To be perfectly honest, I'd probably welcome the Eldar books being fully merged at this point.

At least with Farseers, Autarchs, Shadowseers and Troupe Masters, Dark Eldar would finally have some worthwhile HQ choices.

Sure.

We should probably just merge them with the Primaris Marines and Chaos at the same time right? Then Chaos Marines could take decent troops choices, and you could use Doom with Intercessors.
It'd be great.

As a chaos space marine player I welcome this idea. I’ve been toying with the idea of counts as loyalist marines my chaos boys so I can play them with some flavor and more importantly as a functioning army, but my defiler was the only thing holding me back. I was in love with the model and lore. Then I can have my bike lord not be legends, cost 20 points cheaper and have better rules I also get my hours heresy terminator armor as well. My tacs get mediocre rules that aren’t just loyalist rules except crappier. Please let me bypass the spike tax!

i have to say, when i made this topic i did not expect 3 pages of material

macluvin wrote:

AdmiralHalsey wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

 harlokin wrote:
Just thinking about it depresses me. At this point I'd probably be grateful if I was sure that there was going to be another Drukhari codex, rather than lumping all the knife ears into 'Codex Spess Elfs'.

To be perfectly honest, I'd probably welcome the Eldar books being fully merged at this point.

At least with Farseers, Autarchs, Shadowseers and Troupe Masters, Dark Eldar would finally have some worthwhile HQ choices.

Sure.

We should probably just merge them with the Primaris Marines and Chaos at the same time right? Then Chaos Marines could take decent troops choices, and you could use Doom with Intercessors.
It'd be great.

As a chaos space marine player I welcome this idea. I’ve been toying with the idea of counts as loyalist marines my chaos boys so I can play them with some flavor and more importantly as a functioning army, but my defiler was the only thing holding me back. I was in love with the model and lore. Then I can have my bike lord not be legends, cost 20 points cheaper and have better rules I also get my hours heresy terminator armor as well. My tacs get mediocre rules that aren’t just loyalist rules except crappier. Please let me bypass the spike tax!

The defiler is the one CSM kit that I hope gets a redo al a the New Necron Monolith. I don't want to to change from what it is, just look better and fit with the modern standards.

pm713 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
No, I don't think it's excessive when we're talking about five armies basically using the same pool of releases.

It's five armies getting far more attention than TWENTY TWO.

And its more or less proportional to their popularity and profit they bring in for GW. Makes perfect sense.

Beardedragon wrote:
i have to say, when i made this topic i did not expect 3 pages of material

Welcome to Dakka! This may well go to double digits, its hit on a fairly touchy subject - Xenos release patterns.

 Stux wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
No, I don't think it's excessive when we're talking about five armies basically using the same pool of releases.

It's five armies getting far more attention than TWENTY TWO.

And its more or less proportional to their popularity and profit they bring in for GW. Makes perfect sense.

Beardedragon wrote:
i have to say, when i made this topic i did not expect 3 pages of material

Welcome to Dakka! This may well go to double digits, its hit on a fairly touchy subject - Xenos release patterns.

Apparently so. And thank you lol.

I didnt even want to be snyde or make a scene, i just thought there was an actual release pattern. Like first few months after a new edition, Someone would get their codexes. then the next, then the next. And X amount of units would follow.

I thought there was a clear pattern in these things given how many editions its been since this show started, but i guess there arent. Glad to know actually.

But also kind of sad because i have no idea how long i have to wait till my Orks get their Codex then.

 Stux wrote:

pm713 wrote:
It's five armies getting far more attention than TWENTY TWO.

And its more or less proportional to their popularity and profit they bring in for GW. Makes perfect sense.

Here's the question, though - if, over that period, you picked 5 non-Space Marine factions, made them the focus of the game/marketing for that period, and released that many kits (split between them, not each), would you see their profitability/popularity increase compared to how they are now?

Off the top of my head - and avoiding power armour - if they'd put that much attention on Dark Eldar, Eldar, Imperial Guard, Orks & Tyranids, how would that picture change?

If we take the 120 kits as the right number - and I quibble with some of the items in there, like the Space Marine Heroes releases but whatever - you're talking 24 new kits per faction. For the IG, that could give you two or three new sets of Regiment releases in plastic (assuming 3 kits per release (Infantry, HWT, Command Squad)), plus officers/characters, maybe a recut/expanded multi-kit for the Basilisk, and options I'm not even thinking of here - hell, bring back the Rough Riders!

Eldar could see each Aspect getting a redone kit, and any other Finecast in their range replaced with plastic, and still get new options. Imagine the potential boon for Dark Eldar! They'd have to get new options, rather than having existing ones retired. Maybe Vect could come back? Tyranids might get the Bio/Pyro-vore 3 model kit, or plastic Lictor/Deathleaper, and maybe a plastic Nid Super-heavy. Not sure on Orks, but any remaining Finecast could've been done away with at a minimum.

Heck, even if we ignore the stuff during 6th & 7th edition, and just remove the Primaris side of things, you could achieve a good chunk of the above - maybe not all the Aspects, maybe only the one IG regiment, etc - but plenty of low-hanging fruit could've been picked, given how much of the release schedule has been dominated by that word for three-plus years.

Obviously if they put more marketing and releases into a faction it would sell more than if they didn't.

But I am 100% confident that at this point they get much better ROI on focusing on marines than other factions. They will have data on this, decades worth of it.

Marines are the human power fantasy faction, and they superficially appear to be the good guys to new players. Players always gravitate more to this kind of faction in games, even when all options are presented equally. Add to that the iconic Marine look that transcends the game itself.

Could they release a few less Marines and a few more others? Sure. Would people actually be much happier if they did? I wouldnt bank on it.

I say all this as a Tyranids player too. Yeah, no new kits since 2014 is a bit lame. But honestly I feel like our range is really not that bad compared to several other factions who have had some more recent releases. I would be far more interested in a rules rework than new models to be quite honest.

3-15yrs

 Stux wrote:
They will have data on this, decades worth of it.

I stopped believing that GW has the data and knows exactly what they're doing when their sales forecast indicated they made enough Sisters boxes to last through Christmas (four months), then it sold out in twenty minutes, and they seemed genuinely surprised that Sisters were so popular. They don't actually seem to understand the link between a faction's model support and its popularity.

Age of Sigmar has Stormcast as the comparable superhuman power fantasy faction, yet the release schedule is way less lopsided in their favor. If GW has all the data and human power fantasy factions outsell others and guarantee a better ROI, why aren't Stormcast getting the lion's share of new releases?

You've got two very similar games, and two very similar factions, but in one game the superhumans are treated like just another faction, and in the other superhumans are the constant focus to the exclusion of others. I'm hoping that with Primaris being the replacement of the entire existing Marine line we'll see their releases start to taper off soon, just as Stormcast tapered off once they were fleshed out, but given all the as-yet unreleased Primaris stuff (that land speeder, Hellfuries, Heavy Intercessors for starters), I'm not confident in that.

 catbarf wrote:
...Age of Sigmar has Stormcast as the comparable superhuman power fantasy faction, yet the release schedule is way less lopsided in their favor. If GW has all the data and human power fantasy factions outsell others and guarantee a better ROI, why aren't Stormcast getting the lion's share of new releases?...

Are they not? Stormcast have had four waves of releases (initial, Vanguard-chamber, Extremis-chamber, Sacrosanct-chamber), no other army has had more than one.

The Chaos factions have had more than one.

The problem with AoS' releases is that they've been staggered a lot more than people seem to think. Stormcast also haven't actually had "four waves of releases". Extremis Chamber was a whole separate book, as Vanguard were seemingly slated to be.

The Extremis models are in the most current Stormcast book and share faction keywords/abilities with the rest of the Stormcast. I count them as a "Stormcast release" even if they were in another book.

As to Chaos they've gotten multiple books, but I don't know how you want to count their model releases. They've done Everchosen, one wave of Nurgle stuff, one wave of Slaanesh stuff, one wave of Khorne stuff, and the new generic Chaos Warriors; an individual book could theoretically use stuff from as much as three of those, I suppose, but that means we count the Everchosen and the WoC as four separate releases.

 catbarf wrote:

 Stux wrote:
They will have data on this, decades worth of it.

I stopped believing that GW has the data and knows exactly what they're doing when their sales forecast indicated they made enough Sisters boxes to last through Christmas (four months), then it sold out in twenty minutes, and they seemed genuinely surprised that Sisters were so popular. They don't actually seem to understand the link between a faction's model support and its popularity.

Age of Sigmar has Stormcast as the comparable superhuman power fantasy faction, yet the release schedule is way less lopsided in their favor. If GW has all the data and human power fantasy factions outsell others and guarantee a better ROI, why aren't Stormcast getting the lion's share of new releases?

You've got two very similar games, and two very similar factions, but in one game the superhumans are treated like just another faction, and in the other superhumans are the constant focus to the exclusion of others. I'm hoping that with Primaris being the replacement of the entire existing Marine line we'll see their releases start to taper off soon, just as Stormcast tapered off once they were fleshed out, but given all the as-yet unreleased Primaris stuff (that land speeder, Hellfuries, Heavy Intercessors for starters), I'm not confident in that.

...

Stormcast DO get the lions share of Sigmar releases. They've had full ranges multiples times since Sigmar released. If anything this reinforces my argument on this front.

Yes, they may be a lower percentage of Sigmar than Marines are of 40k. But Marines, as I said, are iconic - they have over 3 decades of being pretty much the poster boy of tabletop warranting.

ERJAK wrote:
Years if ever.

This is new GW mate.

There will be at lest 4, and most likely more, new 40k codexes a year. Space marines will always jump the line, but as it stands, it will never be more than 4 years between codexes now.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
The Extremis models are in the most current Stormcast book and share faction keywords/abilities with the rest of the Stormcast. I count them as a "Stormcast release" even if they were in another book.

The point that you seemed to have missed is that this wasn't going to be the same situation, at least initially, as Marines were. Each of the Stormcast Chambers was going to be its own self-contained thing that could ally with each other or possibly have some 'mixed faction' Warscroll Battalions.

It wasn't until the Vanguard came out that we saw a 'rolled together' book.

As to Chaos they've gotten multiple books, but I don't know how you want to count their model releases. They've done Everchosen, one wave of Nurgle stuff, one wave of Slaanesh stuff, one wave of Khorne stuff, and the new generic Chaos Warriors; an individual book could theoretically use stuff from as much as three of those, I suppose, but that means we count the Everchosen and the WoC as four separate releases.

Blades of Khorne has had three books.
Disciples of Tzeentch have had two.

Not all of them had model releases associated with them, admittedly, but they have changed the structure of the armies fairly heavily each time.

 Stux wrote:
Stormcast DO get the lions share of Sigmar releases. They've had full ranges multiples times since Sigmar released. If anything this reinforces my argument on this front.

I'll reiterate: I already acknowledged that Stormcast dominated the release schedule for a long while (and it was really frustrating, just as it is for 40K) as they fleshed out the faction from scratch. But they've eased back over the last year or so, and more importantly other factions are getting attention too. Right now Stormcast certainly don't get a new release alongside every non-Stormcast release and then some, as is the case with Primaris.

I'm not sure if 40K has ever had a starter set that didn't feature Marines, but AoS has done boxes without Stormcast. There are also fewer factions in AoS that rely on Finecast or > 20 year old plastics for their basic troops. Go figure that that game would have a healthier faction balance than 40K, where I can go into my shop on any given day and see 80+% Marine armies on the tables.

Even if we acknowledge that power fantasy supermen is a popular army trope, and that Marines are iconic to the setting, the current balance of release schedule and faction popularity hasn't been the case for the entire lifetime of the game- chalking it up as market forces dictating that everyone just intrinsically loves Marines and dislikes other factions, brushing off how much of that is a self-fulfilling prophecy, and asserting that GW knows exactly what the community wants despite clear evidence to the contrary (again, see: Sisters popularity) seems unreasonable.

Sisters did so well because it had been built up for years. Over a decade really. If they released them all the time I doubt it would be the same.

And I'm not saying that the current level is absolutely optimal either. I'm just it makes perfect sense for the plurality of releases to be Marines.

There certainly have been boxed sets without Marines, Blood of the Phoenix at least.

Blood of the Phoenix wasn't a starter set. You had to already have at least the codices for the two factions in order to play with it.

Feast of Bones, for contrast, included core rules, and AoS has all the warscrolls free, so it was playable and a viable entry point for the game.

Unless it happened sometime during 6th-7th when I was away from the hobby, I don't think there's ever been an intro set- everything you need to play included- that hasn't been Space Marines vs someone else. That alone is a major contributor to Marines having a larger market share.

 catbarf wrote:
Blood of the Phoenix wasn't a starter set. You had to already have at least the codices for the two factions in order to play with it.

Feast of Bones, for contrast, included core rules, and AoS has all the warscrolls free, so it was playable and a viable entry point for the game.

Unless it happened sometime during 6th-7th when I was away from the hobby, I don't think there's ever been an intro set- everything you need to play included- that hasn't been Space Marines vs someone else. That alone is a major contributor to Marines having a larger market share.

Well that's an unfair comparison - Sigmar gives away all waracrolls for free.

Its a box that pits two factions against each other, that's all thats really relevant.

stratigo wrote:

ERJAK wrote:
Years if ever.

This is new GW mate.

There will be at lest 4, and most likely more, new 40k codexes a year. Space marines will always jump the line, but as it stands, it will never be more than 4 years between codexes now.

I doubt it. The rushed race of 8th edition releases is hopefully over, and with their factory update finished (or nearly so), no need for constant filler books like PA.

Hopefully they'll slow back down and leave armies alone for a good while once they update them.

But there isn't any reason to take the 8th edition release schedule as a precedent. 8th and 9th are related enough that they aren't in an 'everything is invalidated' scenario.

Voss wrote:

stratigo wrote:

ERJAK wrote:
Years if ever.

This is new GW mate.

There will be at lest 4, and most likely more, new 40k codexes a year. Space marines will always jump the line, but as it stands, it will never be more than 4 years between codexes now.

I doubt it. The rushed race of 8th edition releases is hopefully over, and with their factory update finished (or nearly so), no need for constant filler books like PA.

Hopefully they'll slow back down and leave armies alone for a good while once they update them.

But there isn't any reason to take the 8th edition release schedule as a precedent. 8th and 9th are related enough that they aren't in an 'everything is invalidated' scenario.

Don't look at 40k, look at AoS.

GW has hit upon the idea that regularly releasing new army books drives sales. And they are entirely correct in this. Every edition is going to have a regular churn through of the available codexes, plus a few new (or "new") ones, over its life span. Every army is gonna get a new book in 9th (or at least a supplement in the case of marine sub factions), and 9th is not going to last much longer than 8th did. And this is the pace they will keep up, because it's been a huge win for them financially. That said, everything is probably gonna get a can kicked down about 2 to 3 months thanks to Covid, so there might either be a congested release at a certain point, or maybe a couple armies do indeed get screwed as they don't fit in the revised 9th edition release window.

The only way this changes is if GW's profits crater. Which itself will only happen in the context of a worldwide crisis.

 catbarf wrote:
Blood of the Phoenix wasn't a starter set. You had to already have at least the codices for the two factions in order to play with it.

Feast of Bones, for contrast, included core rules, and AoS has all the warscrolls free, so it was playable and a viable entry point for the game.

Unless it happened sometime during 6th-7th when I was away from the hobby, I don't think there's ever been an intro set- everything you need to play included- that hasn't been Space Marines vs someone else. That alone is a major contributor to Marines having a larger market share.

Forgebane.
All the rules for the units were included in the booklet. Necrons v AdMech.

I guess you could kinda/sorta make an argument for the original Kill-Team launch? The assembly book had datasheets for Rangers/Vanguard and Neophyte Hybrids. But that one's a stretch.

@OP Unless you are playing space marines just don't expect any models for your faction in any given years.

Not saying you wont get anything the entire year.. but whell.. you are likely not getting anything the entire year.

 Stux wrote:
Obviously if they put more marketing and releases into a faction it would sell more than if they didn't.

But I am 100% confident that at this point they get much better ROI on focusing on marines than other factions. They will have data on this, decades worth of it.

Marines are the human power fantasy faction, and they superficially appear to be the good guys to new players. Players always gravitate more to this kind of faction in games, even when all options are presented equally. Add to that the iconic Marine look that transcends the game itself.

Could they release a few less Marines and a few more others? Sure. Would people actually be much happier if they did? I wouldnt bank on it.

I say all this as a Tyranids player too. Yeah, no new kits since 2014 is a bit lame. But honestly I feel like our range is really not that bad compared to several other factions who have had some more recent releases. I would be far more interested in a rules rework than new models to be quite honest.

what is conveniently overlooked is that your power fantasy only works when it has an enemy to smash. If you focus all your attention on them, your game will stagnate as people get bored of smashing their he-man against their friend's he-man.

GW have had a remarkable time making fun of xenos players while also expecting them to act as marine punching bags. Only so many people are masochists for this kind of thing. When playing your army is a chore rather than a joy people stop playing.

When your eager kid joins and likes orks but sees their mates' marines getting attention, release after release, it will dishearten them. They either quit playing them, or take up marines. And Turning all your players to marines is a very short term profit strategy and long term failure.

Right, they talk about wanting to keep army fluffy, but fluff-wise right now the Imperium is undergoing a civil war with how strong the Space Marine meta has been. No one I know are playing Space Marines right now so that the games are more fair and fun.

Beardedragon wrote:
But also kind of sad because i have no idea how long i have to wait till my Orks get their Codex then.

They teased an ork model during the release party stream, so orks are likely to be released early next year, if not by the end of this one.