Hey all. I was free and clear of 40k for over 5 years. I stopped somewhere in the middle of 6.5 edition, after playing for a good while in 5th and 6th. Anyway, my nephew expressed an interest in starting (and I still have my models), so I picked up a rulebook today and dusted off my dakkadakka account. So, if some of these questions are from 8th, please excuse my ignorance.

1. Engagement range - you cannot move within 1" of enemy models in movement phase. Is there anyway, outside of remnants of close combat, that you would be within engagement range of a model? Specifically, looking for when you can only remain staionary or fall back.

2. Vehicles - following above, I saw no rules for tank shock, displacing infantry, etc. Am I correct that vehicles cannot drive through enemy models now? So, a wall of gretchin can stall out a land raider?

3. Land Raiders have a WS skill and Attack number. So, vehicles that are in contact with models can issue attacks. Can vehicles charge then? pile in? consolidate?

4. I saw nothing about arc of fire. So, do vehicles now have 360 shooting arcs?

5. Reserves - do you just decide what turn they come in now?

Again, apologies if these are basic questions. Just trying to get things sorted and pickup games are a little tougher right now with COVID.

Thanks in advance!!!

 Green is Best! wrote:
Hey all. I was free and clear of 40k for over 5 years. I stopped somewhere in the middle of 6.5 edition, after playing for a good while in 5th and 6th. Anyway, my nephew expressed an interest in starting (and I still have my models), so I picked up a rulebook today and dusted off my dakkadakka account. So, if some of these questions are from 8th, please excuse my ignorance.

1. Engagement range - you cannot move within 1" of enemy models in movement phase. Is there anyway, outside of remnants of close combat, that you would be within engagement range of a model? Specifically, looking for when you can only remain staionary or fall back.

2. Vehicles - following above, I saw no rules for tank shock, displacing infantry, etc. Am I correct that vehicles cannot drive through enemy models now? So, a wall of gretchin can stall out a land raider?

3. Land Raiders have a WS skill and Attack number. So, vehicles that are in contact with models can issue attacks. Can vehicles charge then? pile in? consolidate?

4. I saw nothing about arc of fire. So, do vehicles now have 360 shooting arcs?

5. Reserves - do you just decide what turn they come in now?

Again, apologies if these are basic questions. Just trying to get things sorted and pickup games are a little tougher right now with COVID.

Thanks in advance!!!

1) When you charge in the Charge Phase, you move within Engagement Range of enemy models in order to attack them in the subsequent fight phase. AFAIK the only ways to get within Engagement Range of enemy models is via charging, or via a "loophole" of the Strategic Reserves rule.

2) Correct, Tank Shock isn't a thing. If you manage to encircle a Land Raider with Gretchen, it can't escape. However, 9th introduced two new mechanics to fix this issue of 8th. First is that VEHICLES can now shoot their non-Blast guns at enemy units they are within Engagement Range of. Those Gretchen are not gonna have a fun time trying to tarpit a Land Raider Crusader or Redeemer! Second is a stratagem that allows you to move though enemy models when falling back, albeit with the risk of having models slain, so not really worth risking losing a several hundred point vehicle to do so.

3) Vehicles pretty much act like Monstrous Creatures used to. They are no different to any other model. They make Charges, Pile Ins, Close Combat Attacks, and Consolidates just like any other model. They have the same Strength and Toughness system that all other models use. Just keep in mind that all models with 10 or more wounds (not a core rule, but something that has been applied consistently to all 10 or more wound models afaik) have what is called a damage table. As these models lose wounds, some of their characteristics change. In General (9th edition is not standardised as much as previous editions, everything is bespoke on the datasheets) Tanks generally worsen in Movement, BS, and Attacks as they degrade, Walkers lose Movement, WS, and BS, and Monstrous Creatures lose WS, BS, and Attacks (although there is an example of a Forge World Bloodthirster that gets MORE attacks as it gets wounded!).

4) Fire Arcs no longer exist in any capacity. All models now can draw LOS from any part of the model to any part of the target model. The only thing "arcs" exist in anymore is in the movement of some AIRCRAFT.

5) Random Reserves is no longer a thing. You have full control as to when any units set up outside the battlefield or in Strategic Reserves. There are certain restrictions as to when (e.g. In matched play, you can't do so in the first turn, and any units that don't by turn 3 are destroyed), and as to where, that is detailed in whatever rule is being used to set up those models. The most common rule is "anywhere on the battlefield more than 9" away from enemy models" (scattering from Deep Strike isn't a thing anymore).

 BaconCatBug wrote:
1) When you charge in the Charge Phase, you move within Engagement Range of enemy models in order to attack them in the subsequent fight phase. AFAIK the only ways to get within Engagement Range of enemy models is via charging, or via a "loophole" of the Strategic Reserves rule.

You can also enter Engagement Range of an enemy using Heroic Intervention, Pile In or Consolidation.

 Cheex wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
1) When you charge in the Charge Phase, you move within Engagement Range of enemy models in order to attack them in the subsequent fight phase. AFAIK the only ways to get within Engagement Range of enemy models is via charging, or via a "loophole" of the Strategic Reserves rule.

You can also enter Engagement Range of an enemy using Heroic Intervention, Pile In or Consolidation.

Fair point, I had them all wrapped up in my headspace as "charge phase". Derp!

This is a good point OP to follow a simple rules maxim: Forget everything you know and read the rules for what they say now.

@green


40K is no longer the game you played. 8th edition was as much of a huge change to the game as the switch from 2nd RPG style 40K to 3rd ed tactical wargame style of play.


Initially index 8th edition was super streamlined and at first most people liked it ( i prefer to use it for epic 40K rules), however later in the edition GW followed the same exact formula that killed 7th edition. previously it was formation spam that broke the game with bloat and power creep that was replaced with command point and stratagem spamming in 8th. turning current 9th edition 40K more akin to a collectible card game like magic (with the constant rules changes/updates to go with it) than a TT wargame.

That is why you have noticed so much missing from the game you used to play.

Many of us who want more of a wargame have gone back to playing older editions of the game with our local community. our group uses 5th edition for example, but i know others who have stayed with 7th but without game breaking formations.

Thanks for the input everyone. Follow up questions:

If I am running an army of Emperor's Children with Lucius as one of my HQs. I decide to add a squad of Daemonettes to this list.

1. Can Lucius join that squad?
2. If he does join, his movement is 6" and the daemonettes are 7". Are the daemonettes reduced to 6" or do the models move as stated and Lucius just has to keep up and stay in coherency?
3. Now that I mention it, I do not recall seeing any rules about characters joining squads.... is that still allowed?
4. In this list above, daemonettes are troops but do not benefit from any EMPEROR'S CHILDREN traits. Is this correct?


Thanks again!!

Characters cannot join squads. They are stand alone units. You cannot add daemonettes to a emperors children detachment, they lack the <LEGION> keyword, you could create a SLAANESH detachment, but you wouldnt have a legion trait, nor the slaanesh daemonic locus. You would need a separate daemon detachment, or you would need to summon them, or you would need a aux support detachment with them.

 p5freak wrote:
Characters cannot join squads. They are stand alone units. You cannot add daemonettes to a emperors children detachment, they lack the <LEGION> keyword, you could create a SLAANESH detachment, but you wouldnt have a legion trait, nor the slaanesh daemonic locus. You would need a separate daemon detachment, or you would need to summon them, or you would need a aux support detachment with them.

Understood. Following up on characters, how does that work with respect to embarking on vehicles? I don't see any restrictions other than the number and type allowed? So, 2 characters and a 5 man squad can jump in a rhino... but they are 3 separate units?

So, characters cannot join squads like in the past, but if they have 9 wounds or less AND are within 3" of another unit, they cannot be picked out per the LOOK OUT SIR rule?

 Green is Best! wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Characters cannot join squads. They are stand alone units. You cannot add daemonettes to a emperors children detachment, they lack the <LEGION> keyword, you could create a SLAANESH detachment, but you wouldnt have a legion trait, nor the slaanesh daemonic locus. You would need a separate daemon detachment, or you would need to summon them, or you would need a aux support detachment with them.

Understood. Following up on characters, how does that work with respect to embarking on vehicles? I don't see any restrictions other than the number and type allowed? So, 2 characters and a 5 man squad can jump in a rhino... but they are 3 separate units?

So, characters cannot join squads like in the past, but if they have 9 wounds or less AND are within 3" of another unit, they cannot be picked out per the LOOK OUT SIR rule?

Yes, thats exactly right on both accounts.

For transports, only the maximum allowed models really counts, it is indeed possible to put multiple different units in one.

You are also correct about look out sir but the non character stuff must also be closer to the firing unit as well (bear in mind that non monster or vehicle units must contain at least 3 models to confer look out sir. There has been a faq to clarify certain issues with characters that are also monsters protecting one another (i.e. they dont) so check out the faqs on the warhammer community page (or i beleive the app now has them if you are willing to pay £4 a month.

 Green is Best! wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Characters cannot join squads. They are stand alone units. You cannot add daemonettes to a emperors children detachment, they lack the <LEGION> keyword, you could create a SLAANESH detachment, but you wouldnt have a legion trait, nor the slaanesh daemonic locus. You would need a separate daemon detachment, or you would need to summon them, or you would need a aux support detachment with them.

Understood. Following up on characters, how does that work with respect to embarking on vehicles? I don't see any restrictions other than the number and type allowed? So, 2 characters and a 5 man squad can jump in a rhino... but they are 3 separate units?

So, characters cannot join squads like in the past, but if they have 9 wounds or less AND are within 3" of another unit, they cannot be picked out per the LOOK OUT SIR rule?

Yes, you can have more than one unit embarked in a vehicle now as long as there is transport capacity, so you could have 2 characters and a 5 man squad in a Rhino.

Characters of 9 wounds or less may be screened by being within 3" of another unit, but there are restrictions - they have to be a non-character unit, it must be closer to the firing unit than the character, and it has to be a vehicle, monster, or a unit with 3 or more models. You can't have a unit of only 2 grots that have survived earlier battles screening a Warboss, you would need at least 3 grots.

 p5freak wrote:
Characters cannot join squads. They are stand alone units. You cannot add daemonettes to a emperors children detachment, they lack the <LEGION> keyword, you could create a SLAANESH detachment, but you wouldnt have a legion trait, nor the slaanesh daemonic locus. You would need a separate daemon detachment, or you would need to summon them, or you would need a aux support detachment with them.

I am a little confused here then. How would I go about including daemons in a chaos space marines detachment then? I do not see any HQ that would match with that, if I have to match all the keywords (Chaos, Slaanesh, Daemon). Is it possible to take daemons and space marines in the same detachment?

Thanks,

 Green is Best! wrote:
I am a little confused here then. How would I go about including daemons in a chaos space marines detachment then? I do not see any HQ that would match with that, if I have to match all the keywords (Chaos, Slaanesh, Daemon). Is it possible to take daemons and space marines in the same detachment?

Thanks,

To be a battle forged army, you can not have daemons and space marines in the same detachment

If you are not battle forged (Usually referred to as unbound) you can have whatever you want, but you lose a lot of army specific rules.

 Green is Best! wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Characters cannot join squads. They are stand alone units. You cannot add daemonettes to a emperors children detachment, they lack the <LEGION> keyword, you could create a SLAANESH detachment, but you wouldnt have a legion trait, nor the slaanesh daemonic locus. You would need a separate daemon detachment, or you would need to summon them, or you would need a aux support detachment with them.

I am a little confused here then. How would I go about including daemons in a chaos space marines detachment then? I do not see any HQ that would match with that, if I have to match all the keywords (Chaos, Slaanesh, Daemon). Is it possible to take daemons and space marines in the same detachment?

Thanks,

You don't. Daemons and CSM are totally separate armies now. You can theoretically do it, but you shouldn't as you lose all your detachment bonuses. If you want to have daemons in your CSM army you either pay a CP penalty for an additional detachment, or summon them in, leaving aside reinforcement points to do so.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Green is Best! wrote:
I am a little confused here then. How would I go about including daemons in a chaos space marines detachment then? I do not see any HQ that would match with that, if I have to match all the keywords (Chaos, Slaanesh, Daemon). Is it possible to take daemons and space marines in the same detachment?

Thanks,

To be a battle forged army, you can not have daemons and space marines in the same detachment

Not true. You can make a SLAANESH detachment with csm units with mark of SLAANESH and SLAANESH daemons. Units in a detachment need one common keyword, and it cant be CHAOS. You would be battleforged, because all your units are in detachments. You wouldnt have a legion trait, and you wouldnt have a daemonic locus.
If you want to have a legion trait, and a daemonic locus, you would need two separate detachments with pure csm and pure daemons. If you want a legion trait and daemons you can summon them, but no locus. You can also add one daemon unit in a aux support detachment, but they wouldnt have a locus.

I guess my confusion stems from why the daemon troop choices are in the CSM codex. Is it just to provide datasheets for units that are summoned?

 Green is Best! wrote:
I guess my confusion stems from why the daemon troop choices are in the CSM codex. Is it just to provide datasheets for units that are summoned?

In short, yes. It gives some summoning options without needing to buy a totally different codex. Note the keywords on those daemon units, or rather the lack of the <LEGION> keyword. Summoned units are not part of any detachment, so summoning them doesn't break anything.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Green is Best! wrote:
I guess my confusion stems from why the daemon troop choices are in the CSM codex. Is it just to provide datasheets for units that are summoned?

In short, yes. It gives some summoning options without needing to buy a totally different codex. Note the keywords on those daemon units, or rather the lack of the <LEGION> keyword. Summoned units are not part of any detachment, so summoning them doesn't break anything.

Can you point me to the right page of the rule book or codex for this? The For Example portion on p245 makes it sound like an Intercessor squad can be in a detachment as long as it says IMPERIUM or ADEPTUS ASTARTES.

So, upon relooking at this, you could make a legal battle forged detachment using Abaddon and Bloodletters (as they both have Khorne as a keyword?). But, you would not be able to add anything else to the detachment?

 p5freak wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Green is Best! wrote:
I am a little confused here then. How would I go about including daemons in a chaos space marines detachment then? I do not see any HQ that would match with that, if I have to match all the keywords (Chaos, Slaanesh, Daemon). Is it possible to take daemons and space marines in the same detachment?

Thanks,

To be a battle forged army, you can not have daemons and space marines in the same detachment

Not true. You can make a SLAANESH detachment with csm units with mark of SLAANESH and SLAANESH daemons. Units in a detachment need one common keyword, and it cant be CHAOS. You would be battleforged, because all your units are in detachments. You wouldnt have a legion trait, and you wouldnt have a daemonic locus.
If you want to have a legion trait, and a daemonic locus, you would need two separate detachments with pure csm and pure daemons. If you want a legion trait and daemons you can summon them, but no locus. You can also add one daemon unit in a aux support detachment, but they wouldnt have a locus.

Your statement (about mine being not true) is incorrect.

CSM and SM are not the same thing, so what I said was true. (though I missed that he said chaos space marines detachment, I thought he was talking about a space marines detachment).

OK. I think I found it. Is this correct?

I can take daemons from the CSM codex along with other units (helbrutes, vindicators, etc) and still be battle forged.

However, in order to gain the legion trait, all units in the detachment must be from the same legion. As daemons lack the legion trait, including them would negate this.

 Green is Best! wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Green is Best! wrote:
I guess my confusion stems from why the daemon troop choices are in the CSM codex. Is it just to provide datasheets for units that are summoned?

In short, yes. It gives some summoning options without needing to buy a totally different codex. Note the keywords on those daemon units, or rather the lack of the <LEGION> keyword. Summoned units are not part of any detachment, so summoning them doesn't break anything.

Can you point me to the right page of the rule book or codex for this? The For Example portion on p245 makes it sound like an Intercessor squad can be in a detachment as long as it says IMPERIUM or ADEPTUS ASTARTES.

So, upon relooking at this, you could make a legal battle forged detachment using Abaddon and Bloodletters (as they both have Khorne as a keyword?). But, you would not be able to add anything else to the detachment?

The point is, you CAN have Abaddon and Bloodletters in the same detachment, as well as any other unit with the KHORNE keyword, but you SHOULDN'T do so, as doing so means you lose the trait for that detachment and put yourself at a massive disadvantage. The detachment won't get the Black Legion detachment trait, nor will it get the Locus of Khorne detachment trait from the Daemons codex.

Another example, you could theoretically have a patrol of a IMPERIAL FISTS Captain, ULTRAMARINES Intercessors, and a unit of BLOOD ANGEL Intercessors, as they all have the ADEPTUS ASTARTES keyword, but it'll be far less effective than taking a ULTRAMARINES Captain and two units of ULTRAMARINES Intercessors, since the former will have no detachment trait and only benefit from Combat Doctrines, while the latter will all be buffed with the Ultramarines Chapter Tactic, Combat Doctrines AND and the Ultramarine Superdoctrine.

 DeathReaper wrote:


CSM and SM are not the same thing, so what I said was true.

Where does it say CHAOS cannot be used as the common faction keyword?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Green is Best! wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Green is Best! wrote:
I guess my confusion stems from why the daemon troop choices are in the CSM codex. Is it just to provide datasheets for units that are summoned?

In short, yes. It gives some summoning options without needing to buy a totally different codex. Note the keywords on those daemon units, or rather the lack of the <LEGION> keyword. Summoned units are not part of any detachment, so summoning them doesn't break anything.

Can you point me to the right page of the rule book or codex for this? The For Example portion on p245 makes it sound like an Intercessor squad can be in a detachment as long as it says IMPERIUM or ADEPTUS ASTARTES.

So, upon relooking at this, you could make a legal battle forged detachment using Abaddon and Bloodletters (as they both have Khorne as a keyword?). But, you would not be able to add anything else to the detachment?

The point is, you CAN have Abaddon and Bloodletters in the same detachment, as well as any other unit with the KHORNE keyword, but you SHOULDN'T do so, as doing so means you lose the trait for that detachment and put yourself at a massive disadvantage. The detachment won't get the Black Legion detachment trait, nor will it get the Locus of Khorne detachment trait from the Daemons codex.

As Abaddon has all 4 marks, you could theoretically have one of each type of daemon in this detachment. You would be batte forged, but lost legion and locus?
Sorry if this is coming across as being nitpicky. I am just trying to fully understand the battle forged and detachments concepts before trying to explain to my nephew.

Thanks again

You most likely couldn't have Abaddon with daemons of all 4 gods in the same detachment, as they would only share the CHAOS keyword and that cannot be the only keyword that units in a detachment share.

 Green is Best! wrote:
As Abaddon has all 4 marks, you could theoretically have one of each type of daemon in this detachment. You would be batte forged, but lost legion and locus?
Sorry if this is coming across as being nitpicky. I am just trying to fully understand the battle forged and detachments concepts before trying to explain to my nephew.

Thanks again

Abaddon has the KHORNE, NURGLE, SLAANESH, and TZEENTCH faction keywords. So you could have ONE set of daemons, but not all four in Eternal War missions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Green is Best! wrote:
Where does it say CHAOS cannot be used as the common faction keyword?

BRB, Page 280. It's part of the Eternal War mission pack, which is the default mission pack for Matched Play. In Narrative play you can use CHAOS to bind a detachment together just fine.

 Green is Best! wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:


CSM and SM are not the same thing, so what I said was true.

Where does it say CHAOS cannot be used as the common faction keyword?

Was this supposed to be directed towards me?
Because I was not talking about that at all.

However in matched play it says in the BRB on P. 280 section 2. 7th sentence details that you can not use CHAOS and a few others.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Green is Best! wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:


CSM and SM are not the same thing, so what I said was true.

Where does it say CHAOS cannot be used as the common faction keyword?

Was this supposed to be directed towards me?
Because I was not talking about that at all.

However in matched play it says in the BRB on P. 280 section 2. 7th sentence details that you can not use CHAOS and a few others.

Yes. I was looking at pages 244-246 and could not find anything. I did not think to go into the Matched Play section. And I wasn't trying to be spiteful, I was just confused as I was looking in the wrong section.

THANKS!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
OK. Here is another one:
I remember back in 5th and 6th, the controversy of pivoting oblong models (landraiders, heldrakes, etc.) to "gain movement."


There is a sentence in the movement phase that says "the distance a model moves is measure using the part of the model's base that moves furthest along its path." How is this being interpreted? If a land raider can move 10", should I just measure 10" off the hull and stay "wholly within" that radius?

 Green is Best! wrote:
OK. Here is another one:
I remember back in 5th and 6th, the controversy of pivoting oblong models (landraiders, heldrakes, etc.) to "gain movement."

There is a sentence in the movement phase that says "the distance a model moves is measure using the part of the model's base that moves furthest along its path." How is this being interpreted? If a land raider can move 10", should I just measure 10" off the hull and stay "wholly within" that radius?

They do not do the pivoting thing anymore. Just make sure no part of a model moves over the movement characteristic on its datasheet.

Another way of wording that, would be to say that "the distance is the part of the base/model that's travelled the furthest". So no, you can't pivot to gain a couple of inches for free, as the end you've swung out then counts towards the distance travelled.

 Green is Best! wrote:
OK. Here is another one:
I remember back in 5th and 6th, the controversy of pivoting oblong models (landraiders, heldrakes, etc.) to "gain movement."


There is a sentence in the movement phase that says "the distance a model moves is measure using the part of the model's base that moves furthest along its path." How is this being interpreted? If a land raider can move 10", should I just measure 10" off the hull and stay "wholly within" that radius?

Models don't need to pivot to move, they can move freely, doing backflips and doughnuts as they go. You simply cannot move any part of the base or hull more than it's movement phase. You can never "gain" movement via rotation since you can't move any part more than your movement. Like you said, the model has a "bubble" around it when it starts it move and no part of the model can move past that point.

OK, switching to artefacts of chaos.If I want to take The Black Mace, it can only be given to a model with a Power Maul. So, I choose the appropriate model that can take a melee weapon, pay the 4 points for the power maul, and then convert it to the Black Mace for free. I can only do this with one artefact. Am I correct here?

Also, if I wanted to make a Night Lords army, I could take the Outrider Detachment option and could go all Raptors with a Jump pack Chaos lord. However, they would not get the Despoilers of the Galaxy trait as they are not troops.

 Green is Best! wrote:
OK, switching to artefacts of chaos.If I want to take The Black Mace, it can only be given to a model with a Power Maul. So, I choose the appropriate model that can take a melee weapon, pay the 4 points for the power maul, and then convert it to the Black Mace for free. I can only do this with one artefact. Am I correct here?

Also, if I wanted to make a Night Lords army, I could take the Outrider Detachment option and could go all Raptors with a Jump pack Chaos lord. However, they would not get the Despoilers of the Galaxy trait as they are not troops.

Correct.

There is also a Stratagem in the CSM Dex that lets you take an extra Relic (the general term for Artefacts of Chaos and other special wargear from any Codex) for 1 CP, or two extra Relics for 3 CP.

 Green is Best! wrote:
OK, switching to artefacts of chaos.If I want to take The Black Mace, it can only be given to a model with a Power Maul. So, I choose the appropriate model that can take a melee weapon, pay the 4 points for the power maul, and then convert it to the Black Mace for free. I can only do this with one artefact. Am I correct here?

Also, if I wanted to make a Night Lords army, I could take the Outrider Detachment option and could go all Raptors with a Jump pack Chaos lord. However, they would not get the Despoilers of the Galaxy trait as they are not troops.

1) Correct. Your free relic comes from the pool provided by the appropriate Warlord. You can purchase extra relics via stratagems. You can't take the same relic multiple times, or give a single model more than one relic, but you can have multiple different relics so long as you pay the appropriate costs/use the appropriate stratagems.

2) Correct. They aren't the Troops battlefield role, so they won't get Despoilers of the Galaxy. They can still capture objectives, it's just that even a single enemy Troop model (it's usually only Troops that get this type of rule, there are exceptions) will outrank your Raptors when it comes to trying to capture the objective.

 Green is Best! wrote:
OK, switching to artefacts of chaos.If I want to take The Black Mace, it can only be given to a model with a Power Maul. So, I choose the appropriate model that can take a melee weapon, pay the 4 points for the power maul, and then convert it to the Black Mace for free. I can only do this with one artefact. Am I correct here?

Pretty much. There are stratagems that exist that allow you to take multiple Relics by paying Command points - but I believe the individual Relics must still be unique.

Also, if I wanted to make a Night Lords army, I could take the Outrider Detachment option and could go all Raptors with a Jump pack Chaos lord. However, they would not get the Despoilers of the Galaxy trait as they are not troops.

Correct.


(edit) ...bah humbug!! I literally just opened the forum again 5 minutes ago, why couldn't I see BCB had already replied?!

 Super Ready wrote:
(edit) ...bah humbug!! I literally just opened the forum again 5 minutes ago, why couldn't I see BCB had already replied?!

It's never a bad idea to reply even if someone already has. Multiple data-points can increase the significance of the results. lf multiple people give the same answer, it is more likely (although not always certain) that the answer is correct.

Thanks again for all the help. Looking through the rules again:
1. No access points on a rhino? Does this mean you can no longer shoot out of the hatch?
2. I did not see any restrictions on disembarking after vehicles move. Also, I do not see class of vehicle (i.e. assault). Does this mean I can advance a rhino, disembark 3", normal move, and charge?
3. I only have the CSM codex right now. Is open top still a thing? From the questions on the forum, it appears so.
4. Morale test is taken whenever a unit suffers a casualty, period? I don't see rules for Fearless or anything like that. Again, since I don't have an imperial codex yet, do Space Marines have some way to ignore morale tests?
5. WIth respect to charges:
a. you cannot end up within engagement range of another unit, unless you declared it as a target. Correct?
b. If I pile in later rounds, can you pile in to a unit not currently in combat?
c. What has been people's experience with assaults with the new rules? Do they last forever, or do they tend to end quickly? I don't see rules for sweeping advance, but the morale tests look like you could lose models at a decent pace.
d. I see no restrictions on charging from reserve, it appears that is gone. Is 1st round charge still a no go somewhere?

Thanks again!!!

 Green is Best! wrote:
Thanks again for all the help. Looking through the rules again:
1. No access points on a rhino? Does this mean you can no longer shoot out of the hatch?
2. I did not see any restrictions on disembarking after vehicles move. Also, I do not see class of vehicle (i.e. assault). Does this mean I can advance a rhino, disembark 3", normal move, and charge?
3. I only have the CSM codex right now. Is open top still a thing? From the questions on the forum, it appears so.
4. Morale test is taken whenever a unit suffers a casualty, period? I don't see rules for Fearless or anything like that. Again, since I don't have an imperial codex yet, do Space Marines have some way to ignore morale tests?
5. WIth respect to charges:
a. you cannot end up within engagement range of another unit, unless you declared it as a target. Correct?
b. If I pile in later rounds, can you pile in to a unit not currently in combat?
c. What has been people's experience with assaults with the new rules? Do they last forever, or do they tend to end quickly? I don't see rules for sweeping advance, but the morale tests look like you could lose models at a decent pace.
d. I see no restrictions on charging from reserve, it appears that is gone. Is 1st round charge still a no go somewhere?

Thanks again!!!

1) Correct. No transports have fire points anymore. Chimeras have a Lasgun array special rule, and some transports kept their Open Topped rule (but they are a broken mess RaW, don't even try wrapping your head around it).
2) You can only disembark before the transport makes its move. BRB Page 211, Disembark. Some transports (e.g. Impulsor) have a special rule allowing you to disembark after the transport moves, but usually prevents you charging if you do so.
3) It is, but it's pretty rare. It's also broken to all hell.
4) Morale tests are taken if even a single model is slain. However, due to how the morale rules work, taking a single casualty usually means you can't actually fail the test, and you have a 1/6 chance of auto-passing the morale test now. Space Marines can re-roll morale tests. For example, if a unit has Ld 7, taking a single casualty means that even if you roll a 6, you'll pass the test since 6+1 is 7.
5a) Correct, you can only move into engagement range of units you declared a charge against. More importantly, in 9th you must make it to engagement range to ALL units you declared a charge against otherwise the charge will fail, not just a single unit, which makes longrange multicharges a lot riskier. That being said, you can freely pile in or consolidate into units you didn't declare a charge against, but you can only attack units you charged, and if you do pile in or consolidate into other units, they get to swing at you.
5b) Yes, you can. However, if you made a charge move that turn, you can only attack units you declared a charge against, even if you pile in or consolidate into them.
5c) Melee in 8th and 9th (imo) has been a bit of a mixed bag. With Fall Back being pretty much consequence free, your choppy unit will charge in, kill a few dudes, then they walk away and the rest of their shooting blows your exposed ass away.
5d) You can indeed charge on the first turn, and you can charge when you arrive as reinforcements. To balance this, you can't arrive as reinforcements in the first battle round, and the majority of reinforcement rules require you to be more than 9" from the enemy, which means you need to roll a 9 when charging, which is pretty difficult to do without buffs or re-rolls.

OK. I have a few more:
1. Since characters cannot join units, does their leadership ever effect morale checks? For example, Abaddon is LD10... does that ever confer?
2. For CSM units, what is the upside to declaring yourself to a particular god? From what I can tell, it only gains you access to specific artefacts and icons. Am I missing a page where it does anything else (like Nurgle used to be +1T, etc.).

 Green is Best! wrote:
OK. I have a few more:
1. Since characters cannot join units, does their leadership ever effect morale checks? For example, Abaddon is LD10... does that ever confer?
2. For CSM units, what is the upside to declaring yourself to a particular god? From what I can tell, it only gains you access to specific artefacts and icons. Am I missing a page where it does anything else (like Nurgle used to be +1T, etc.).

1) By default, no, it doesn't. The only thing Character Leadership is used for is for certain special rules that rely on it. Some characters have special rules that allow you to confer their Leadership to other units (e.g. Commissars) but when it comes to Morale, the majority of characters are worthless.
2) Marks of Chaos do nothing on their own anymore. They only act as anchors for other rules to reference.

1. Force weapons appear to be identical to power weapons, except the do D3 damage instead of 1. Correct?
2. Can someone point me to the page for combi-weapons? I am assuming they are the same, but I cannot locate in the brb. Kind of annoyed there is no index.
3. Failed morale checks never force you to fall back, they only cause models to be removed? Does this apply to the vaunted space marines as well?

 Green is Best! wrote:
1. Force weapons appear to be identical to power weapons, except the do D3 damage instead of 1. Correct?
2. Can someone point me to the page for combi-weapons? I am assuming they are the same, but I cannot locate in the brb. Kind of annoyed there is no index.
3. Failed morale checks never force you to fall back, they only cause models to be removed? Does this apply to the vaunted space marines as well?

1) Correct. Gotta get that streamlining in!
2) Combi-weapons are detailed in the appropriate codex. You're in luck though, because for once GW's dumbing down streamlining actually was an improvement. Combi-Weapons are now basically both guns duct-taped together, you can fire either half as many times as you want, and even fire both halves at once with a -1 to hit if you so want.
3) Correct. If you fail a Morale test, you lose a model, (Those Grots are Scary! I, a twelve thousand year old perfectly gene-crafted praetorian of The Emperor at whos side I walked and basked in his golden glory, must now run away with soiled britches!) then have to take an "Attrition test", where you roll a D6 for every model in a unit. For each roll of 1 (or 1 and 2 if the unit is under half starting strength) one model goes poof into the aether, whether it's a Grot, Space Marine, Sentinel or Custodes Terminator. In fairness, Loyalist Space Marines get to re-roll morale so they are less likely to fail in the first place. CSM, no such luck. Apparently the warp predators are less scary than some random ratlings!

It'd be a fantastic idea if there were only some way to show how certain units are made of sterner stuff than others! Like, say, oh I don't know... some kind of leadership statistic?

OK, a few more. I do appreciate the help.

1. For psychic abilities, is there anything preventing the psyker from casting it upon himself? For example, Diabolic Strength could be cast upon the pskyer?

2. Vehicle Armor is gone, it is just toughness. The new chart says 6's ALWAYS wound. So, in theory, land raiders can be taken down by bolter and lasgun fire?

3. Are meltabombs gone or just not in the chaos codex?

4. Does the Greater Possessed Locus of Power stack? If so, is it per Greater Possessed model or unit? I am assuming unit, but just double checking.

5. Is this the correct order to apply wounds:
a. Roll to Hit
b. Roll to Wound
c. Calculate damage (if is variable)

I have 3 attacks. I roll 3 dice, 2 hit. Of those hits, 1 wounds. This is a Hellforged Sword that is D3. So this would be 3 saves to make?

Thanks,

 Green is Best! wrote:
OK, a few more. I do appreciate the help.

1. For psychic abilities, is there anything preventing the psyker from casting it upon himself? For example, Diabolic Strength could be cast upon the pskyer?

2. Vehicle Armor is gone, it is just toughness. The new chart says 6's ALWAYS wound. So, in theory, land raiders can be taken down by bolter and lasgun fire?

3. Are meltabombs gone or just not in the chaos codex?

4. Does the Greater Possessed Locus of Power stack? If so, is it per Greater Possessed model or unit? I am assuming unit, but just double checking.

5. Is this the correct order to apply wounds:
a. Roll to Hit
b. Roll to Wound
c. Calculate damage (if is variable)

I have 3 attacks. I roll 3 dice, 2 hit. Of those hits, 1 wounds. This is a Hellforged Sword that is D3. So this would be 3 saves to make?

Thanks,

1) Psychic powers can affect whatever they say they can effect. Unless the power explicitly prohibits it, and the psyker is a legal target for the power, they can cast powers on themselves.
2) Yes, but needing 6's to wound makes it really, REALLY unlikely to even cause a single wound. You need 72 Lasgun shots to have a 50% chance of causing even a single point of damage on a Land Raider.
3) Meltabombs are Grenade weapons now (with a 4" range, so in other words, totally useless) and yeah, CSM lost their Meltabombs. They left them at Space Five Guys Burgers and Fries and the Blood Ravens stole them all.
4) No, auras don't stack. And this aura especially does not stack. It applies if you are within range of "any" models with the aura, not "each". It doesn't matter if there is a single Greater Possessed of Seventy Two Trillion, models in range only get +1 to their strength.
5) No. Each attack (normally) can only inflict a single wound. You make a save against each wound caused. If the save fails, it then inflicts damage, which causes wounds to be lost.

1) Roll to hit

2) Roll to wound

3) Take one wound, assign it to a model

4) Roll to save

5) If 4) failed, roll to see how much damage is inflicted, then go to 6. If 4) passed, go to 3) if wounds remain to be assigned

6) Roll for Ignore wound effects

7) Remove the model if slain, then go back to 3 until all wounds have been assigned and dealt with

This means, for example, shooting at a unit of 6 Imperial Guardsmen, something like an Assault Cannon (Heavy 6, Damage 1) can kill up to 6 models, but a Lascannon (Heavy 1, Damage D6) can only kill 1 model, since the extra damage is wasted on the 1 wound Imperial Guardsmen even if you rolled a 6 for the damage.

OK. Instant death is no longer a thing.Is that correct?

Hypothetical situation: I have an Emperor's Children detachment with a Greater Possessed (GP) associating(is that the term?) with a squad of possessed and they are charged.

1st case: This is the only assault taking place

Based on the EC trait always fight first, as I was charged, I would nominate a unit to fight first. Because they have the EC trait, they swing first.

2nd case: There are 2 duplicate situations of the above taking place.

Based on the EC trait, I pick one of my two units to swing. My opponents swings with one of his. I swing with my second. My opponent swings with his second.

Are those correct?

Next, given that a character such as a Greater Possessed above is not attached to any unit, how does that interact with the above mechanism? Would the GP be considered part of that fight, or would I pick either the GP or the possessed squad to swing, then my opponent, then the other part of my army?

Lastly, does the GP's aura affect the GP as well? Or would I need a second GP unit to buff him?

There are a few rules that instantly kill a model. EC units dont fight first when they get charged. Players alternate choosing units to fight with, starting with the player whose turn it is. So, a unit who has charged fights first, then an EC unit fights, then another unit who has charged, EC unit, etc., until all units that have charged have fought. Then all EC units fight before all other remaining units. A GP is just another EC unit. You would pick him after your opponent has chosen a unit to fight with.

 p5freak wrote:
There are a few rules that instantly kill a model. EC units dont fight first when they get charged. Players alternate choosing units to fight with, starting with the player whose turn it is. So, a unit who has charged fights first, then an EC unit fights, then another unit who has charged, EC unit, etc., until all units that have charged have fought. Then all EC units fight before all other remaining units. A GP is just another EC unit. You would pick him after your opponent has chosen a unit to fight with.

So to clarify, if a squad of Possessed and a GP close by are charged, they are considered 2 separate units with respect to being selected?

And, if I understand the charge rules correctly, they would need to nominate BOTH as targets of the charge? So, if they declared the Possessed Squad as the target, they could ONLY swing at the Possessed and not the GP. If they declared BOTH as targets of the charge, they have to get into engagement range of BOTH the possessed squad and the GP or the charge fails?

 Green is Best! wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
There are a few rules that instantly kill a model. EC units dont fight first when they get charged. Players alternate choosing units to fight with, starting with the player whose turn it is. So, a unit who has charged fights first, then an EC unit fights, then another unit who has charged, EC unit, etc., until all units that have charged have fought. Then all EC units fight before all other remaining units. A GP is just another EC unit. You would pick him after your opponent has chosen a unit to fight with.

So to clarify, if a squad of Possessed and a GP close by are charged, they are considered 2 separate units with respect to being selected?

Indeed.

 Green is Best! wrote:
OK. Instant death is no longer a thing.Is that correct?

Correct. Now appropriate weapons have a Damage greater than 1, allowing them to kill models with more than 1 wound faster.

Hypothetical situation: I have an Emperor's Children detachment with a Greater Possessed (GP) associating(is that the term?) with a squad of possessed and they are charged.

1st case: This is the only assault taking place

Based on the EC trait always fight first, as I was charged, I would nominate a unit to fight first. Because they have the EC trait, they swing first.

2nd case: There are 2 duplicate situations of the above taking place.

Based on the EC trait, I pick one of my two units to swing. My opponents swings with one of his. I swing with my second. My opponent swings with his second.

Are those correct?

Next, given that a character such as a Greater Possessed above is not attached to any unit, how does that interact with the above mechanism? Would the GP be considered part of that fight, or would I pick either the GP or the possessed squad to swing, then my opponent, then the other part of my army?

Lastly, does the GP's aura affect the GP as well? Or would I need a second GP unit to buff him?

This is a little messy because there are a number of rules in effect in these cases. To simplify the answers:

1. The Greater Possessed is its own unit. It is always its own unit. Don't ever think of it as part of another unit. That will help you with all the rules. Units benefiting from another units Aura powers are generally referred to as being "in unit X's aura", so "a squad of Possessed in the aura of a Greater Possessed".
2. All units that Always Fight First, including units that charged, must be selected to fight before any units that do not have this trait nor charged.
3. There are three "sections" of the fight phase (you need to dig into the Rare Rules Interaction section to parse this out:
* Fight First: Units that Fight First or that charged. The player who's turn it is selects the first unit to fight, and then it alternates between the players for units that Fight First
* Normal Fights: Units that do not Fight First nor Fight Last fight, starting with the player who's turn it is not and alternating while there are appropriate units to select
* Fight Last: Units that Fight Last alternate fighting between players, starting with the player who's turn it is
Note: Should a unit ever be under effect to both Fight First and Fight Last, it fights as normal.

 Green is Best! wrote:

And, if I understand the charge rules correctly, they would need to nominate BOTH as targets of the charge? So, if they declared the Possessed Squad as the target, they could ONLY swing at the Possessed and not the GP. If they declared BOTH as targets of the charge, they have to get into engagement range of BOTH the possessed squad and the GP or the charge fails?

Yes.

OK. Not being attached to other units is having effects I didn't think about. So, in this case, if it was my turn, I would have to declare the possessed squad is charging AND the GP is charging, rolling separate for both.

Timing question... just to confirm....
I declare the possessed squad is charging. I declare its target(s). I roll for distance. I must get in engagement rage of all unit(s) or the charge fails. I then pick my next unit, in this case the GP, and repeat. Is this correct?

So, if the possessed squad fails its charge, I can then choose to NOT charge with the GP as he would be all by his lonesome charging.

A lot of subtle effects that I need to get my head around, but I kind of like where the new rules went.

Also, given the new rules with vehicles, has Rhino Rush returned?

 Green is Best! wrote:
OK. Not being attached to other units is having effects I didn't think about. So, in this case, if it was my turn, I would have to declare the possessed squad is charging AND the GP is charging, rolling separate for both.
Timing question... just to confirm....
I declare the possessed squad is charging. I declare its target(s). I roll for distance. I must get in engagement rage of all unit(s) or the charge fails. I then pick my next unit, in this case the GP, and repeat. Is this correct?
So, if the possessed squad fails its charge, I can then choose to NOT charge with the GP as he would be all by his lonesome charging.

Yep, that's all correct.

Also, given the new rules with vehicles, has Rhino Rush returned?

Nope, it's still very much dead! In fact a lot of vehicles beyond Rhinos that had "Assault Vehicle" or something, rules explicitly allowing units to charge from a disembark, have now lost those rules too and I'm not aware of any that kept the ability. I suggest having a good close look at transports and maybe playing out a couple of sample turns with a couple of mock units, just to get familiar with them.

 Super Ready wrote:

Nope, it's still very much dead! In fact a lot of vehicles beyond Rhinos that had "Assault Vehicle" or something, rules explicitly allowing units to charge from a disembark, have now lost those rules too and I'm not aware of any that kept the ability. I suggest having a good close look at transports and maybe playing out a couple of sample turns with a couple of mock units, just to get familiar with them.

What am I missing? in 5th and 6th you could only charge out of assault vehicles. Correct me if I am wrong, but you can disembark from a stationary vehicle (3" from any point on the hull?), make a normal move, and then charge?

I have yet to play and actually try out, but vehicles appear to be more robust than before. There is no stunned or shaken to worry about. You don't have to get out and wait for your next turn to assault. So, it seems like this edition is more assault friendly than 5th or 6th was.

But, this would not be the first time I came up with something in theory from the codex only to find it fail MISERABLY on the table top.

Thanks,

That's all correct - but it misses part of what was so big about Rhino Rush and Assault Vehicles. You can't move the vehicle and disembark, then charge.
I think it's fair to say that a transport charge right now is dangerous enough to be a concern, but not from so far away that you don't normally get at least one chance to pop the transport first, which was the problem - and part of the reason Rhino Rush was so popular.

I missed out on rhino rush as I believe that was 4th edition and before my time. Maybe I used the wrong term.

But it does seem a lot easier to get your boys into combat now than before. I am looking forward to playing again. Now, I have to go through my models and figure out what I can field.

An issue in 8th, was that transports were *very* expensive compared to 7th and earlier. To the point it was generally better to just take another unit... or two... and suffer casualties on the way. Non-open-topped vehicles also lost any fire ports they had, which meant lost shooting opportunities and 8th was all about alpha strike.

I haven’t run numbers on that yet for 9th, but with the action all in the “centre” now, the mobility boost still doesn’t seem to be worth the points and lost attack opportunities, at first glance.

 greatbigtree wrote:
An issue in 8th, was that transports were *very* expensive compared to 7th and earlier. To the point it was generally better to just take another unit... or two... and suffer casualties on the way. Non-open-topped vehicles also lost any fire ports they had, which meant lost shooting opportunities and 8th was all about alpha strike.

I haven’t run numbers on that yet for 9th, but with the action all in the “centre” now, the mobility boost still doesn’t seem to be worth the points and lost attack opportunities, at first glance.

I did notice rhinos were double the points from before. What you're saying makes sense. THere is a world of difference between Theoryhammer and actual tabletop Warhammer.

Looking through the Flyer and Aircraft portion...

I did not see any penalties for shooting at flyers. Is that gone?
I do not see anything restricting charging aircraft. Did I miss that? That seems odd.

Thanks,

 Green is Best! wrote:

 greatbigtree wrote:
An issue in 8th, was that transports were *very* expensive compared to 7th and earlier. To the point it was generally better to just take another unit... or two... and suffer casualties on the way. Non-open-topped vehicles also lost any fire ports they had, which meant lost shooting opportunities and 8th was all about alpha strike.

I haven’t run numbers on that yet for 9th, but with the action all in the “centre” now, the mobility boost still doesn’t seem to be worth the points and lost attack opportunities, at first glance.

I did notice rhinos were double the points from before. What you're saying makes sense. THere is a world of difference between Theoryhammer and actual tabletop Warhammer.

Looking through the Flyer and Aircraft portion...

I did not see any penalties for shooting at flyers. Is that gone?
I do not see anything restricting charging aircraft. Did I miss that? That seems odd.

Thanks,

Those are now covered by rules on the datasheet. Aircraft generally have a "Hard to Hit" rule, which gives a -1 to hit penalty. Aircraft generally also have an "Airborne" rule which prevents non-FLY models from charging them and prevents the Aircraft from charging whatsoever. Note that the Heldrake doesn't have these rules. Units with the Flyer Battlefield Role aren't always AIRCRAFT. Some AIRCRAFT can enter a "Hover Mode", such as the Valkyrie.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Those are now covered by rules on the datasheet. Aircraft generally have a "Hard to Hit" rule, which gives a -1 to hit penalty. Aircraft generally also have an "Airborne" rule which prevents non-FLY models from charging them and prevents the Aircraft from charging whatsoever. Note that the Heldrake doesn't have these rules. Units with the Flyer Battlefield Role aren't always AIRCRAFT. Some AIRCRAFT can enter a "Hover Mode", such as the Valkyrie.

Thanks. It seemed odd that you could charge aircraft. Only having the CSM codex and no AIRCRAFT in it had me wondering.

I appreciate the help.

Another question, when it comes to assault. When making your to hit rolls, you simply go off the WS d+ number? There is no modifier to it like it editions past?

Some units might impose a modifier, but normally yes. WS is functionally identical to BS.

Tau have photon grenades that impose a -1 to hit penalty on the targeted unit until the Tau player’s next turn, for example, and that modified to-hit in both shooting and cc.

In 8th, Power Fists attacked at -1 to hit, but I haven’t checked to see if that carried into 9th edition.

OK. Picked up the Thousand Sons and Demons codexes today. What does having the cavalry keyword do?

Is it just for classifying what effects happen?
Any modifiers I should be aware of?
If so, can you point me to the correct page?

Thanks

 Green is Best! wrote:
Another question, when it comes to assault. When making your to hit rolls, you simply go off the WS d+ number? There is no modifier to it like it editions past?

There is no more comparing WS. It works the same as shooting, you just try and beat a target. As with shooting, some effects will give modifiers to this (e.g. Power Fists are -1 to hit).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Green is Best! wrote:
OK. Picked up the Thousand Sons and Demons codexes today. What does having the cavalry keyword do?

Is it just for classifying what effects happen?
Any modifiers I should be aware of?
If so, can you point me to the correct page?

Thanks

Keywords don't do anything on their own. They act solely as anchors for other rules. Afaik literally nothing cares that something is CAVALRY (but I am probably wrong and missed something), it's more a case of "This isn't INFANTRY, BIKER, or SWARM so some effects won't benefit them."

Just keep in mind, the codexes aren't worth the paper they are printed on. Make sure to get the FAQs and Errata because most of the printed codex won't be valid any more. You'll also need the Minutorum Field Manual 2020 for points costs.

 BaconCatBug wrote:


Just keep in mind, the codexes aren't worth the paper they are printed on. Make sure to get the FAQs and Errata because most of the printed codex won't be valid any more. You'll also need the Minutorum Field Manual 2020 for points costs.

Glad to see some things at GW haven't changed!!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
OK. Looking at the demon codex, as all the creatures have CHAOS, DAEMON, and <ALLEGIANCE>, I can mix and match across the Dark Gods and still be Battle Forged? Daemon being the keyword that allows this?

EDIT: Upon further review, mixing up the dark gods in one detachment would remove the DAEMONIC LOCI. OK. I get it. They don't play well with each other.

 Green is Best! wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:


Just keep in mind, the codexes aren't worth the paper they are printed on. Make sure to get the FAQs and Errata because most of the printed codex won't be valid any more. You'll also need the Minutorum Field Manual 2020 for points costs.

Glad to see some things at GW haven't changed!!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
OK. Looking at the demon codex, as all the creatures have CHAOS, DAEMON, and <ALLEGIANCE>, I can mix and match across the Dark Gods and still be Battle Forged? Daemon being the keyword that allows this?

EDIT: Upon further review, mixing up the dark gods in one detachment would remove the DAEMONIC LOCI. OK. I get it. They don't play well with each other.

Yup, that's generally 9th in a nutshell. Lots of things you can theoretically do but are such terrible ideas you shouldn't.

 greatbigtree wrote:
In 8th, Power Fists attacked at -1 to hit, but I haven’t checked to see if that carried into 9th edition.

That's part of the weapon profile, so if it's in your 8th Codex it's still the case right now. That said, it might change with 9th Codexes and the range-wide change to Imperial weapons that's apparently round the corner.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Green is Best! wrote:
Another question, when it comes to assault. When making your to hit rolls, you simply go off the WS d+ number? There is no modifier to it like it editions past?

There is no more comparing WS. It works the same as shooting, you just try and beat a target. As with shooting, some effects will give modifiers to this (e.g. Power Fists are -1 to hit).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Green is Best! wrote:
OK. Picked up the Thousand Sons and Demons codexes today. What does having the cavalry keyword do?

Is it just for classifying what effects happen?
Any modifiers I should be aware of?
If so, can you point me to the correct page?

Thanks

Keywords don't do anything on their own. They act solely as anchors for other rules. Afaik literally nothing cares that something is CAVALRY (but I am probably wrong and missed something), it's more a case of "This isn't INFANTRY, BIKER, or SWARM so some effects won't benefit them."

Just keep in mind, the codexes aren't worth the paper they are printed on. Make sure to get the FAQs and Errata because most of the printed codex won't be valid any more. You'll also need the Minutorum Field Manual 2020 for points costs.

Agripinaa verse of vengeance canticle targets infantry and cavalry

ok, I am also a player returning after a long hiatus, and i too have a question.

a unit armed pistols can fire them while its in engagement range of the enemy, right? So, that means it starts turn in combat (from a melee carrying over from last turn), they can shoot in that shooting phase, at the unit they are in melee with, then fight them agian that turn, correct?

xerxeskingofking wrote:
ok, I am also a player returning after a long hiatus, and i too have a question.

a unit armed pistols can fire them while its in engagement range of the enemy, right? So, that means it starts turn in combat (from a melee carrying over from last turn), they can shoot in that shooting phase, at the unit they are in melee with, then fight them agian that turn, correct?

Yes. That is the beauty of Pistols in 8th/9th edition.

It is generally considered to be a niche ability since there are not many units that have dangerous Pistols and are likely to be Engagement Range at the start of their Shooting phase. Still, it can allow you to kill a few models to swing a combat or finish off a model or two tying up your unit to allow you to Charge something else.

xerxeskingofking wrote:
ok, I am also a player returning after a long hiatus, and i too have a question.

a unit armed pistols can fire them while its in engagement range of the enemy, right? So, that means it starts turn in combat (from a melee carrying over from last turn), they can shoot in that shooting phase, at the unit they are in melee with, then fight them agian that turn, correct?

Correct, but this will never happen. With Fall Back being free, any unit you charge will, 99% of the time, simply be able to turn 360 degrees and walk away out of the combat, allowing the rest of their army to shoot you off the board as you are now exposed.

Well, there are quite a few examples where that's not the case... backfield units fighting over an objective far away from everything else, being surrounded to force a 2CP emergency fall back, dealing with the last couple of units left on the board in turn 5 after a brutal bloodbath.

Instead can we say this - it's a rare case where firing pistols in Engagement Range will drastically alter the outcome of the upcoming combat.

I think pistols are more likely to see use in 9th. I don’t think they’ll set the meta on fire, but since you score primaries at the start of your turn, an Obsec unit might stick it out to be chopped up by a non-obsec unit... to deny your opponent a primary in their next turn vs falling back and giving away a primary.

Also, it’s not *always* a case where falling back and having the rest of your army focus on “that” unit is a good idea. Sometimes stalling an enemy unit can be better.

Having a character with a Plasma Pistol that joins by Heroic Intervention that wants to stay in melee can toss their shot in.

Niche cases, but there are a few situations where they can be useful.

thanks for the replies. I was looking at it form a Admech perspective, mainly with the Sicarian Infiltraitors who have pistols as thier only ranged option, and its useful to know they can shoot while in melee. i'm told the meta is a bit down on both varients of Sicarians, but its good to know anyway.

it might also affect which sidearm my warlord gets, but thats another story.

 Green is Best! wrote:
OK, switching to artefacts of chaos.If I want to take The Black Mace, it can only be given to a model with a Power Maul. So, I choose the appropriate model that can take a melee weapon, pay the 4 points for the power maul, and then convert it to the Black Mace for free. I can only do this with one artefact. Am I correct here?

Also, if I wanted to make a Night Lords army, I could take the Outrider Detachment option and could go all Raptors with a Jump pack Chaos lord. However, they would not get the Despoilers of the Galaxy trait as they are not troops.

Yep you are correct. Note that this particular relic was FAQ'd to also be allowed with the dark apostles 'cursed crozius' which isnt technically a power maul.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/8Iv0tUm0XIq0d0T4.pdf

Also correct on the night lords front.

Next up:
'WTF are command points and stratagems all about?!'

edit: oh lawd i thought this thread was 1 page not 3 - Necro reply sorry


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Green is Best! wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:


Just keep in mind, the codexes aren't worth the paper they are printed on. Make sure to get the FAQs and Errata because most of the printed codex won't be valid any more. You'll also need the Minutorum Field Manual 2020 for points costs.

Glad to see some things at GW haven't changed!!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
OK. Looking at the demon codex, as all the creatures have CHAOS, DAEMON, and <ALLEGIANCE>, I can mix and match across the Dark Gods and still be Battle Forged? Daemon being the keyword that allows this?

EDIT: Upon further review, mixing up the dark gods in one detachment would remove the DAEMONIC LOCI. OK. I get it. They don't play well with each other.

Well with daemons it kinda 'depends' unlike most other books they are the one where you mixing in units can often make your army a lot more powerful than if you go mono in detachments (especially as detachments in 9th cost you CP, they gave you CP in 8th!). Basically if you took say a world eaters army you want that keyword running though it to get access to strats, relics and the +1 attack on the charge.

With daemons you only lose the loci by mixing, you dont lose their 'version' of the legion trait as its a special rule baked in e.g. you'll get Quicksilver switness on your daemonettes even if you have a blood thrister as your HQ
Its not to say loci is crap, its part of may builds (exepect the tzeetch one, the tzeenthc one is rubbish) so its a bit more of a head scratcher when doing daemon armies.

If you are doing chaos then here are the current set of books to be a completest, faith and fury adds a lot to the normal legions:

Chaos Daemons
Chaos Knights
Chaos Space Marines 2019
Death Guard
Thousand Sons
Imperial Armour - Index - Forces of Chaos (Forge world stuff)
Imperium Nihilus - Vigilus Ablaze (Black legion rules and other minor legion rules)
Psychic Awakening - Engine War (Extra knights and daemon rules)
Psychic Awakening - Faith and Fury (rules for NL/AL/IW etc legions)
Psychic Awakening - Ritual of the Damned (Extra thousand sons rules)
Psychic Awakening - War of the Spider (fabius bile + legion rules and extra deathguard rules)



Another massive thing to keep in mind with chaos is that GW annouced a few weeks back that normal marines would all be going to 2 wounds. They said this is going to extend to chaos in all forms so we're in a bit of limbo land with chaos at the minute as any list you write now will likley play very differently when the 2w buff drops.

OK. I think I know the answer, but the GP's aura.... does that affect the GP itself? The same for a Herald of Slaanesh?

Also, with all of the models with multiple wounds now, what is the best method of tracking them during actual game play?

 Green is Best! wrote:
OK. I think I know the answer, but the GP's aura.... does that affect the GP itself? The same for a Herald of Slaanesh?

Also, with all of the models with multiple wounds now, what is the best method of tracking them during actual game play?

Auras always apply to the unit/model that makes the aura, (you are always in range of yourself) provided they have the applicable key words.

For tracking wounds, I use dice. It’s not so hard to track because of the wound allocation rules for units with multiple wound models - you kill whole models before applying wounds to the next model in the unit.

 Green is Best! wrote:
OK. I think I know the answer, but the GP's aura.... does that affect the GP itself? The same for a Herald of Slaanesh?

Also, with all of the models with multiple wounds now, what is the best method of tracking them during actual game play?

As long as the model with the aura has the correct keywords, it will always be within range of it's own aura and benefit from it.

Putting token(s) next to the wounded model works for me, you can't have more than 1 wounded model per unit, so it's pretty easy to keep track of who is hurt.

Thanks.
With respect to wounds, I was referring to vehicles and monstrous creatures. Things that have 9+ wounds.

 Green is Best! wrote:
Thanks.
With respect to wounds, I was referring to vehicles and monstrous creatures. Things that have 9+ wounds.

I like to use a post-it note with a tally.

Big models usually have a base or flat spot you can rest dice on. A cube of “small dice” for wound tracking might cost $5, but you could probably find cheaper. Use little dice for wound tracking, big dice for rolling.

Another thing that I used to do for WarMachine was put the unit card inside a clear sleeve (sold anywhere collectible cards are sold) and use a small dry-erase marker to mark damage on the sleeve. When the game is done, wipe off the sleeve and away you go!

 Green is Best! wrote:
Thanks.
With respect to wounds, I was referring to vehicles and monstrous creatures. Things that have 9+ wounds.

D10, D20, D30, D100 pick your poison they all work.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Green is Best! wrote:
Thanks.
With respect to wounds, I was referring to vehicles and monstrous creatures. Things that have 9+ wounds.

D10, D20, D30, D100 pick your poison they all work.

Never thought of that. That's a great idea

early on in 8th i just bought a pack of 10 D10's served me pretty well for most games.

Most stuff over 10 wounds is gonna be taking a couple when you need to start counting how many they have left so its normall going down to 10ish

My experience with d10’s and the like are that they’re less stable when moving around. Small d6, just put a couple or three or however many you need to keep track.

 greatbigtree wrote:
My experience with d10’s and the like are that they’re less stable when moving around. Small d6, just put a couple or three or however many you need to keep track.

Why would you need to move them?

The only time I move my D10's are when I am adjusting the wounds.

I think it's more a case of accidentally knocking the table, or similar. Of course if you need to move the d10 purposely, you can easily just set it to what it was anyway, so I doubt that's the issue.

 Super Ready wrote:
I think it's more a case of accidentally knocking the table, or similar. Of course if you need to move the d10 purposely, you can easily just set it to what it was anyway, so I doubt that's the issue.

wait, do people not have solid gaming tables?

Yet another question. I thought I read that you attack with all melee weapons now. So, if a Maulerfiedn takes Lasher Tendrils (and has no wounds), it has a base attack of 4. Tendrils say you can make 6 additional attacks with that.

Am I correct in my interpretation that said Maulerfiend will get 4 attack with the fists (Sx2) and 6 at normal strength?

Also, it does not appear there is a cap on attributes any more. So strength can go above 10?

 Green is Best! wrote:
Yet another question. I thought I read that you attack with all melee weapons now. So, if a Maulerfiedn takes Lasher Tendrils (and has no wounds), it has a base attack of 4. Tendrils say you can make 6 additional attacks with that.

Am I correct in my interpretation that said Maulerfiend will get 4 attack with the fists (Sx2) and 6 at normal strength?

Also, it does not appear there is a cap on attributes any more. So strength can go above 10?

A model must make all its attacks during the Fight Phase. If it is armed with a single melee weapon, it must make all attacks with that weapon. If it is armed with multiple melee weapons, it may divide its attacks between those weapons as it sees fit. If not armed with a melee weapon or is unable to attack with a melee weapon it is armed with, it attacks with a Close Combat weapon.

Some weapons have a rule that they give additional attacks when the bearer fights. In those cases, the model make all of it attacks per it's attack characteristic and then makes the additional attacks as noted by the weapons it is bearing.

In the case of the Maulerfiend (7-12+ Wounds) it makes 4 attacks with any desired combination of Lasher Tendrils and Maulerfiend fist (probably all with the fist), followed by 6 attacks from the Lasher Tendrils.

 Green is Best! wrote:
Also, it does not appear there is a cap on attributes any more. So strength can go above 10?

Yes, Str can go above 10. There is not a cap on attributes anymore so in theory you can have a STR score of 20 or more.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Super Ready wrote:
I think it's more a case of accidentally knocking the table, or similar. Of course if you need to move the d10 purposely, you can easily just set it to what it was anyway, so I doubt that's the issue.

wait, do people not have solid gaming tables?

More a case that I / My Group have an age-old habit of putting dice either on the base or on top of large flat models (like a Rhino) and when we move the models the dice move with them, to avoid “which models were wounded, again?” Probably a carry-over from previous editions where different models could be wounded, but it’s our habit.

And no, our tables are not perfectly steady. We usually put a board on top of another table. Usually a large folding table so we can keep space in garages / basements / rec rooms. We were kids when we started, and a lot of habits just stuck with us.

 Green is Best! wrote:
Yet another question. I thought I read that you attack with all melee weapons now. So, if a Maulerfiedn takes Lasher Tendrils (and has no wounds), it has a base attack of 4. Tendrils say you can make 6 additional attacks with that.

Am I correct in my interpretation that said Maulerfiend will get 4 attack with the fists (Sx2) and 6 at normal strength?

Also, it does not appear there is a cap on attributes any more. So strength can go above 10?

No, you don't attack with all melee weapons (you do in Apocalypse, but not normal 40k).

When a model fights in the fight phase, they make a number of attacks equal to the Attacks characteristic on their datasheet. You can split your attacks across any weapons you may have. Models with no other Melee Weapons are considered to have a melee weapon with the profile Range: Melee, S:User, AP:0.

So yes, it can choose to make 4 fist attacks and 6 Lasher Tendrils attacks. Or you could choose to make 10 Lasher Tendrils Attacks, or 9 Lasher Tendrils and 1 fist, etc. Same for Chainswords. A Beserker with Chainaxe and Chainsword that makes 2 attacks will make 2 attacks with either Chainaxe or Chainsword, plus one bonus attack with the Chainsword. Bonus attacks do not require you to use the weapon granting it with your normal attacks.

e.g. A model with 1 attack and a power sword will make 1 attack with the power sword. A model with 3 attacks, a power sword and a power fist makes 3 attacks, choosing whether to use the power sword or power fist for each attack. A Guardman with a Lasgun will simply make 1 attack with their base profile.

And no, there is no upper cap on characteristics any more. Several weapons that used to be "Destroyer" are now S12 or S16, etc. A Warboss with S6 attacking with a Power Claw (S:x2) hits at strength 12.

The locus of power from the Herald of Slaanesh says it affects Slaanesh Daemons.

Do the keywords in CSM units (maulerfiend, defilers, etc.) trigger this or does it have to be in the Faction Keyword portion.

Thanks,

Yes, they do.

 Green is Best! wrote:
The locus of power from the Herald of Slaanesh says it affects Slaanesh Daemons.

Do the keywords in CSM units (maulerfiend, defilers, etc.) trigger this or does it have to be in the Faction Keyword portion.

Thanks,

Because it's an Aura and not a stratagem, it works as the rules say it should work. It's only Daemon stratagems that have special snowflake rules attached to them.